Military Review

Fiasco in the fight with the F-22A or another batch of bluffs from Mr. Bronk?

134

Reported distortion



Undisputedly trained by a British military expert in combat aviation and the Air Force by Justin Bronk for Whitehall (the British Defense Department) another detailed Whitehall Report 3-20, published in the Publications section of the official portal of the Royal Joint Research Institute RUSI, was met with extremely contradictory opinions from both numerous Russian and foreign observers who are superficially aware of the tactical and technical parameters of avionics and electrodynamic characteristics of Russian multifunctional fighters of the transitional and 5th generations, as well as from much more highly specialized expert communities devoted to the subtleties of the functioning of numerous types of airborne radars, optoelectronic complexes and airborne defense systems for Russian and Western tactical fighters.

In particular, in one of the sections of his detailed report, Mr. Bronk noted a number of critical tactical and technical shortcomings of the Russian multifunctional fighters of the 5th generation Su-57, which, in his opinion, exclude the possibility of these machines retaining confident air superiority in opposition to subtle multi-role fighters F-22A and other 5th generation fighters of the enemy.

Exaggeration under the sauce of distortion is a characteristic feature of Western European expert communities.

As a primary drawback, the author of the report, in the best traditions of Western European and American military analytical portals, named the impressive effective scattering surface (EPR) of the Su-57, which is supposedly 20 times greater than the effective reflecting surface (EOC) of Raptors and is due to the first, the use of advanced mobile (mechanized) influxes at the wing root in the aerodynamic configuration of fighters, which contribute to an increase in the reflection coefficient of electromagnetic waves; secondly, - the presence of straight air ducts that expose the blades of the AL-41F1 / "Product 30" TRDDF compressors in front of the microwave radiation of the onboard radars of fighters and other means of enemy radar detection / guidance; thirdly, - the use of a massive radio-contrast cover in the design of the cockpit canopy (also increasing the total EPR of the machine), and finally, fourthly, - the presence of a quantum optical-electronic sighting complex OLS-50M and optical-electronic suppression complexes towering above the surfaces of the fuselage forming 101KS-O.

Bronk also mentioned a noticeably larger (than that of the F-22A) infrared signature of the Su-57, due to the absence of flat nozzles and proper shielding of the nacelles of the AL-41F1 / "Product 30" double-circuit afterburner turbojet engines, as well as the much lower MTBF of the onboard AFAR- Radar Н036 "Belka", which the author of the above report linked allegedly with the low experience of Russian enterprises of the radio-electronic industry in the field of large-scale production of low-noise microwave transistors based on solid-state gallium arsenide and gallium nitride monolithic integrated circuits.

Fake about "Squirrel"


As for the last moment of the drawback noted by Bronk, allegedly in the low reliability of the transmit-receive modules in general and the microwave transistors of the AFAR radar N036 "Belka" in particular, this conclusion completely contradicts the real state of affairs in the defense sector of the radio-electronic industry in Russia. Several generations of highly qualified specialists-virtuosos of the Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Engineering named after V.V. Tikhomirova (is the developer of the N036 Belka radar), in the period from 1968 to 2017, who embodied a huge list of projects of high-energy radar systems based on passive and active phased array systems of various wavelengths (from a dual-band decimeter-centimeter airborne radar 8B "Zaslon" for long-range interceptors of the MiG-31B family up to N035 "Irbis-E" radar for Su-35S fighters and 9S36M illumination / guidance radars for military air defense systems "Buk-M3"), formed a huge reserve for the design of the latest AFAR radars with receiving and transmitting modules based on MIS.

Also, in the design of the element base of the transmitting and receiving paths of the onboard radar N036 "Belka", no less highly qualified specialists of the "Corporation" Fazatron-NIIR "JSC, who several years earlier mastered the unique technology of developing microwave transistors based on substrates ceramics (LTCC, - Low Temperature Co-fire Ceramic), which was embodied "in the hardware" of the prototype of the Zhuk-MAE radar to equip the MiG-35 multipurpose fighters. Therefore, such loud statements of Mr. Bronk about the incompetence and little experience of the NIIP them. V.V. Tikhomirov and "Fazatron-NIIR" in the development and serial production of PFAR / AFAR radars, as well as the low reliability of these products are absolutely not true.

20x exaggeration


As for the other above technological shortcomings of the Su-57, mentioned by Bronk in the Whithall Report 3-20, they should be considered in more detail. So, a noticeably large effective scattering surface (in comparison with the Raptor) of the promising "Drying", due to the movable influxes at the root parts of the wing, direct air ducts with an open architecture of the blades of the TRDDF compressors, as well as the cover of the cockpit canopy and "carried out" above the surface of the contours fuselage with optoelectronic modules, it really takes place; but the difference between the EPR / image intensifier (radar signature) of the Su-57 and the F-22A "Raptor" is far from 20-fold, as the young British expert dreams of. Based on the information periodically appearing on the pages of very competent Russian and foreign military-analytical sites, we can conclude that the RCS of the Su-57 is about 0,2 - 0,3 sq. m, only 3 - 4,3 times higher than the effective reflective surface of the F-22A (0,07 - 0,1 sq. m).

Equal chances


The AN / APG-77 airborne radars of the F-22A fighters are capable of detecting and “linking the tracks” (tracking on the passage) of similar targets at a distance of about 155-170 km, capturing them for precise auto-tracking at a distance of about 125-135 km, in while the radar N036 "Belka" of the multifunctional fighters Su-57, which has more high-energy microwave transistors, will be able to find and capture the F-22A for accurate auto-tracking at similar distances due to the lower EPR of the latter. The conclusion is as follows: in duel situations, in the case of equipping both types of vehicles with long-range air combat missiles AIM-120D and "Product 180", equipped with highly sensitive ARGSN and dual-mode solid propellants (provide an effective range of 140-160 km when launched from the upper layers of the troposphere and lower layers stratosphere), links F-22A "Raptor" and Su-57 will have approximately equal chances of a successful outcome of long-range air combat; but with certain nuances.

Possessing auxiliary antenna AFAR-modules for side-looking N036B-1-01L and N036B-1-01B, onboard radar systems N036B Belka will provide Su-57 pilots with the possibility of continuing to escort the F-22A even at the time of an anti-missile maneuver with a flight course change of 90 -120 degrees, thanks to the formation of a specialized "tracking file", which transmits the coordinates of targets that go beyond the 70-degree viewing area of ​​the main AFAR canvas, to the controllers for controlling the side panels of active PAA with the above indices. Moreover, by targeting both the main AFAR canvas and the side AFAR modules of the Belka complex, super-maneuverable RVV-MD air combat missiles with an interceptor thrust vector deflection system can be launched to intercept the attacking AIM-120D missiles. 180 ", adapted to intercept enemy missiles. Meanwhile, one should not overlook the fact that the side canvases of the AFAR have a noticeably smaller aperture and energy potential, therefore, the F-22A can be escorted when performing an anti-missile maneuver at a distance of no more than 50-70 km.

Chronic stealth


As for the Raptors, during the anti-missile maneuver (when the Su-57 leaves the 60-degree coverage area of ​​the AN / APG-77 radar), the pilots of these machines can only rely on the data provided by the distributed aperture of 30 interferometric sensors of the system radiation warning / electronic reconnaissance AN / ALR-94, which will provide information exactly as long as the radar H036 (Ш-121) of the Su-57 fighter will operate in active mode (for radiation). The pilot of our car, in order to increase the level of stealth, can easily use the OLS-50M, disabling the Belka at the moment the Raptor is performing an anti-missile maneuver. As you can see, the advantage is slowly but surely shifting to the side of the Su-57. As for the high infrared visibility of the Su-57, due to the lack of heat-absorbing shielding of the engine nacelles and the circular cross-section of solid propellant rocket nozzles, this is a typical “chronicle” characteristic of the entire “Su” family, which can be eliminated at the stage of serial production of machines of the 2nd stage, equipped with TRDDF "Product 30".
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  1. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 6 November 2020 05: 43 New
    +8
    Again they are measured with pipis.
    1. Lionnvrsk
      Lionnvrsk 6 November 2020 06: 14 New
      +7
      This is all from the series - we will throw a piece of shit at you, and then you wash yourself. And we'll see what you will wash and what will come of it. yes
    2. bayard
      bayard 6 November 2020 07: 00 New
      15
      More like provoking an opponent to provide information that is missing for analysis. There is very little information about the Belka ballistic missile system, its real characteristics and the fact itself - whether it worked. It is really very difficult to coordinate the synchronous operation of four multi-frequency canvases + two meter modules in the slats. It is very difficult for us to debug such work on the ships - how many torments there were with the Polyment and the new unresolved crap with the Zaslon for corvettes. Therefore, the doubts of the English analyst are not just understandable ... he literally provokes his Russian opponents to rush to justify his mistake with the numbers and real parameters of the RLC ... If Damantsev knew the subject of the discussion, he would have leaked everything and "proved".
      I'm also interested in learning more about the "Squirrel", but ... spies are not asleep. bully
      1. Borik
        Borik 6 November 2020 12: 26 New
        -3
        If mattress makers blaspheme SU-57, it means that they are afraid that our fighters fully meet all the characteristics of the 5th generation and will soon enter service with the Aerospace Forces.
        1. bayard
          bayard 6 November 2020 22: 09 New
          +6
          So far, they have nothing to fear, even if the Su-57 go into the troops at the declared pace, because they will go slowly, in small batches and will be mastered in the troops for several years after entering the combat readiness. But interest in its technical capabilities is and remains unchanged - avionics, weapons, tactics of combat use. And the biggest mystery for them now is precisely the characteristics of its BRLK.
          And with regard to its radar, the possibility of coordinated operation of its antenna canvases and, which is important, the ability of ONE pilot to manage all this considerable economy in a real combat situation. All-aspect awareness and the possibility of using weapons from all angles, without disrupting guidance during vigorous maneuvering, raise some doubts, and fears about the physical capabilities of such for ONE pilot. It would be much preferable to have just a two-seater version of such an aircraft with SUCH BRLK ... On which the Indians insisted ...
          But we decided not to look for easy ways, and now the question is not only that the new fighter would meet all the declared and ordered characteristics, but also that its pilot could successfully manage with all this considerable and complex economy, use all types of weapons without prejudice to piloting in any conditions of air combat.
        2. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 9 November 2020 19: 08 New
          +1
          Quote: Borik
          If mattress makers blaspheme SU-57, it means that they are afraid that our fighters fully meet all the characteristics of the 5th generation and will soon enter service with the Aerospace Forces.

          Stop talking about porn ...
          We have an order for 70 pieces within 10 years ...
          7 planes per year ...
          Why be afraid with so many?

          Well, be with your head on your head and not just wear a hat ...
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 6 November 2020 05: 48 New
    +2
    [B]
    As you can see, the advantage is slowly but surely shifting to the side of the Su-57. [
    /b * ... Cool. It remains to meet in real life. smile
    1. Mar.Tirah
      Mar.Tirah 6 November 2020 10: 08 New
      -5
      Quote: parusnik
      . Cool. Remained in real life to meet.

      Aha! Su-57 developed in the PAK FA program as a front-line fighter bomber, and the F-22 super duper, the top of the Pentagon, to combat enemy aircraft, cover troops and rear objects from air strikes, counter enemy air reconnaissance day and night, in simple and difficult meteorological conditions .. What will happen when we have a PAK DP, if even now Western analysts are guessing and afraid of what will happen after the meeting of the SU-57 with the F-22
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 9 November 2020 19: 10 New
        0
        Quote: Mar. Tira
        Quote: parusnik
        . Cool. Remained in real life to meet.

        Aha! Su-57 developed in the PAK FA program as a front-line fighter bomber, and the F-22 super duper, the top of the Pentagon, to combat enemy aircraft, cover troops and rear objects from air strikes, counter enemy air reconnaissance day and night, in simple and difficult meteorological conditions .. What will happen when we have a PAK DP, if even now Western analysts are guessing and afraid of what will happen after the meeting of the SU-57 with the F-22


        What is PAK-DP?
        1. Mar.Tirah
          Mar.Tirah 10 November 2020 06: 13 New
          +1
          Quote: SovAr238A
          What is PAK-DP?

          A promising long-range intercept air system. Troll what?
  3. Most kind
    Most kind 6 November 2020 05: 53 New
    +5
    They write their articles for the inner man in the street, they quietly dehumanize us, extol their models, so that their pilots do not fight much and do not shoot themselves after learning about a business trip to the eastern front, ours do not advertise much, they carry out modernization and exercises, so everyone knows everything and with smiles on their faces, the last days of the world play, well, or the year, it already depends on Nata.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 6 November 2020 06: 03 New
      +3
      Hooray articles about not killed F-22 will end ... when they begin to fall to the ground.
      A real war is an unpredictable thing and it requires enormous resources ... and the F-22 is an expensive plane ... a very expensive plane for a long war ... one might say a piece goods ... it is of little use for total war.
      1. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 6 November 2020 08: 05 New
        12
        Now, to fight, it will cost a pretty penny. If earlier there might not be enough shells, but they could be replenished and made a supply, now the supply of missiles, tanks, ships, aircraft during hostilities cannot be quickly replenished, you cannot quickly repair them.
      2. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 9 November 2020 19: 11 New
        0
        Quote: The same Lech
        Hooray articles about not killed F-22 will end ... when they begin to fall to the ground.
        A real war is an unpredictable thing and it requires enormous resources ... and the F-22 is an expensive plane ... a very expensive plane for a long war ... one might say a piece goods ... it is of little use for total war.

        Well, how much has already fallen?
  4. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 6 November 2020 07: 14 New
    +6
    Shaw, again ?!
    We just discussed the hope of this ekperd.
    The guy fantasized all sorts of "highlighted like" and based on these fantasies gave an "exhaustive explanation."
    And here we have to chew this sketch in the next circle?
    1. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 9 November 2020 19: 12 New
      -2
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      Shaw, again ?!
      We just discussed the hope of this ekperd.
      The guy fantasized all sorts of "highlighted like" and based on these fantasies gave an "exhaustive explanation."
      And here we have to chew this sketch in the next circle?


      What did you want to say, weak?

      For specific samples. by quantity and so on?

      What would you write in general understandable words here, you are our oxymiron ...
  5. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 6 November 2020 07: 16 New
    +8
    Although...
    Our experts are also funny to read.
    They are waving flags that we are, that there! That we will defeat everyone ...
    Only their raptor has been flying for 20 years, and we are all just going to defeat it.
    Sad, actually.
    1. Voyager
      Voyager 6 November 2020 09: 04 New
      -3
      Remind you why 20 years have been catching up?
      1. Dangerous
        Dangerous 6 November 2020 11: 42 New
        +7
        Better not. Tired of listening to the collapse of the 90s, although 20 years have passed since then
        1. Voyager
          Voyager 6 November 2020 11: 58 New
          -1
          Tired - take a break. And at your leisure, you can figure out how a country with a collapsed economy can catch up with projects that require 15-20 years of development with practically unlimited infusions of funds from many times stronger economies.
          1. Dangerous
            Dangerous 6 November 2020 12: 01 New
            +6
            Uh, why don't we have a strong economy? It's strange, resources, territory, people ... It seems that everything is there.
            1. Voyager
              Voyager 6 November 2020 13: 58 New
              +2
              Indeed, it is strange. It would seem that they starved, the country was destroyed, while all 10 years went forward, we went back 10 years, broke and sold. But that's okay.
        2. Interlocutor
          Interlocutor 6 November 2020 15: 43 New
          +2
          Better not. Tired of listening to the collapse of the 90s, although 20 years have passed since then

          Well, what are you tired.
          You and we will be reminded of this (life) as soon as a weak leader becomes the head of the country. When lobbyists climb from all cracks ...
          The question is when it will happen ... It's difficult to restore, but ask, as it turned out, once or twice.
      2. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 6 November 2020 13: 35 New
        +2
        Quote: Voyager
        Remind you why

        To me?
        No, I don't need to. I worked in a defense research institute in the nineties. There the salary was paid 2 times a year.
        Then for another 15 years this research institute was forced to make flashlights, then acoustics for buses. And the money was given only in 2011, moreover, for R&D, without any research and development.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  6. Mytholog
    Mytholog 6 November 2020 07: 31 New
    0
    Listen, isn't it a lot of honor for this Englishman to refute him? Let him decide for himself and soothe the local military elite.
  7. Doctor Evil
    Doctor Evil 6 November 2020 08: 07 New
    +4
    I love the smell of napalm (read Nikifor) in the morning.
  8. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 6 November 2020 08: 25 New
    12
    Tired of comparing 57th with 35th, so took on 22nd?
    The first Raptors are already over 30. They have not been released for ten years. Soon they will go to junk.

    With all these "installation batches", "serial batches", orders for 2025 or 2027, new engines, with supposedly planned upgrades, empty articles about bad F-35s once a week and other offal, everyone was already so confused that they forgot :
    The Su-57, in fact, has not even been rolled out from the factory yard. There are zero of them in the troops. Half a dozen prototypes don't count. There is still nothing to talk about. Dot.
    1. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 6 November 2020 10: 02 New
      +2
      Not for junk, but for Israel. There was such news yesterday. The plane is so good that it urgently needs to be returned.
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 6 November 2020 11: 48 New
        +3
        Quote: Herman 4223
        Not for junk, but for Israel. There was such news yesterday. The plane is so good that it urgently needs to be returned.

        Well, since they wrote in the newspaper, then they will definitely give it back. lol
        1. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 6 November 2020 13: 02 New
          0
          Rather, they will sell, you can't give away such a miracle for free. There is Trump's permission to sell.
          1. Redfox3k
            Redfox3k 6 November 2020 14: 18 New
            +3
            If to Israel, then in fact they will simply give it back. The United States has some very close, even kinship, ties with Israel, seemingly on the basis of cutting the American budget and gesheft to all interested parties in the US administration. And they will not just give it back, they will also allocate a non-refundable loan for maintenance, expenditure and weapons.
            1. Herman 4223
              Herman 4223 6 November 2020 17: 56 New
              +1
              In any case, recycling is more expensive, as for free, I think that this is not about the United States in principle. The local swindlers will strip anyone to death and hang the debt that the grandchildren will have to pay.
            2. 3danimal
              3danimal 6 November 2020 22: 05 New
              -2
              Looks like envy smile
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 6 November 2020 21: 26 New
        +3
        Not sold to anyone until there was a replacement.
        Lockheed's Skunk Works recently rolled out a prototype to replace the F-22 and F-15.
        And immediately there were speculations about the sale of the Raptors.
        1. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 6 November 2020 22: 13 New
          0
          But this is the sixth generation prototype as I understand it. New cars are now expected to be received in many places, in the UK, Europe, Japan is stirring up something, Northrop is trying to make some kind of mixture of 22/35 for her. But all these projects should go into series at best in the thirties. It's too early to hand out the most modern cars, if they are of course.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 7 November 2020 02: 27 New
            +1
            Lockheed boasts that they have invented a completely
            revolutionary design-detail-test-production method
            new aircraft models. Reducing the entire cycle in time many times.
            I do not know what to say? recourse
            1. Herman 4223
              Herman 4223 7 November 2020 10: 12 New
              0
              Reducing testing in production usually leads to the fact that the output is something crooked and with a bunch of sores.
              Maybe the design time was somehow reduced, then it makes sense.
              1. SovAr238A
                SovAr238A 9 November 2020 19: 26 New
                0
                Quote: Herman 4223
                Reducing testing in production usually leads to the fact that the output is something crooked and with a bunch of sores.
                Maybe the design time was somehow reduced, then it makes sense.


                Nonsense...
                Have you looked at the latest design trends7 over the past 5 years?

                No field tests are needed anymore ...
                that's real.
  9. Igor Tikhomirov
    Igor Tikhomirov 6 November 2020 09: 04 New
    +6
    Another article by a domestic author about nothing. The British article poses questions. The lack of thermal shielding of motors and direct air intakes (possible poor shielding of turbine blades) are indeed questionable.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 6 November 2020 21: 33 New
      0
      On the Super Hornet, the turbine blades also glow on radar.
      To reduce the ESR, some kind of
      dampers. Perhaps the same will be done in the Su-57.
      The cockpit cover can also be made monolithic, like the western
      aircraft. Only then the pilot's ejection system needs to be changed.
      And it is quite possible to make the optical station-sight not round,
      but with faceted outer surfaces, also to reduce the RCS.
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 6 November 2020 22: 22 New
        +1
        Why do you think that the Su-57 has not solved this problem? And was there any?
        There is a slight difference in the arrangement of the motors from the hornet. On the Su-57, they stand slightly at an angle to meet each other, if the car flies forward, then the blades are directed slightly away from the direction of flight of the car. At a distance of several tens of kilometers, in principle, they will not sparkle.
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 7 November 2020 12: 54 New
          +1
          Super Hornet has a similar solution. The engines are located closer to the center than the air intakes and slightly higher. As a result, the blades are only partially visible (through the radial gratings).

          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 8 November 2020 22: 52 New
            -1
            In Northrop, too, not fools work, the problem is more inflated than real.
            But the drying angle is greater.
      2. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 9 November 2020 19: 31 New
        +2
        Quote: voyaka uh
        On the Super Hornet, the turbine blades also glow on radar.
        To reduce the ESR, some kind of
        dampers. Perhaps the same will be done in the Su-57.
        The cockpit cover can also be made monolithic, like the western
        aircraft. Only then the pilot's ejection system needs to be changed.
        And it is quite possible to make the optical station-sight not round,
        but with faceted outer surfaces, also to reduce the RCS.


        not just a bailout system.

        If there is a sufficiently serious Stealth system in the fuselage
        becomes a secondary unmasking factor ..
        Pilot workplace.
        The interior of the cabin. pilot's seat, etc.
        Suddenly yes?

        For all chepsikobrosatel ...
  10. Eug
    Eug 6 November 2020 09: 54 New
    0
    In my opinion, a significant factor in the Su-57's larger RCS is its lack of a flat bottom, like the F-22. But at the moment of launching missiles by the Raptor (i.e., opening the flaps), it also ceases to be flat.
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 6 November 2020 10: 11 New
      +3
      As for me, a significant factor in the greater RCS of the Su-57 is the lack of a flat bottom,

      what does the "flat bottom" have to do with it? Whether it is flat or not, this does not affect the RCS in any way. The flat bottom works through the supercirculation effect to benefit the overall aerodynamics of the aircraft by contributing to the generation of additional lift. But does the Su-57 complain about poor aerodynamics?
    2. 3danimal
      3danimal 7 November 2020 12: 54 New
      -2
      It stops for a second smile
    3. 3danimal
      3danimal 7 November 2020 13: 05 New
      -1
      Everything lies on the surface:
      The Raptor has s-shaped air intakes, a one-piece metallized lantern, no protruding rivets, a radio-absorbing coating (which is capricious in maintenance), etc.



      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 9 November 2020 19: 33 New
        -1
        Quote: 3danimal
        Everything lies on the surface:
        The Raptor has s-shaped air intakes, a one-piece metallized lantern, no protruding rivets, a radio-absorbing coating (which is capricious in maintenance), etc.

        And ours will do without radio-absorbing coverage?
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 9 November 2020 21: 14 New
          +1
          It must appear one day smile
          And you have to stop laughing at the problems of Americans with gentle RPMs.
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 9 November 2020 21: 28 New
            +1
            Quote: 3danimal
            It must appear one day smile
            And you have to stop laughing at the problems of Americans with gentle RPMs.


            Well, the Americans are tenderly kosher, and ours is brutally tight ...
            And in fact, chemical physics cannot be fooled.
            The coatings will be identical. with the same properties, and the same application and operation scheme.

            fantasy cannot be at the same level of technology development.
    4. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 9 November 2020 19: 32 New
      0
      Quote: Eug
      In my opinion, a significant factor in the Su-57's larger RCS is its lack of a flat bottom, like the F-22. But at the moment of launching missiles by the Raptor (i.e., opening the flaps), it also ceases to be flat.

      for 2 seconds ...
      And then what?
  11. Ka-52
    Ka-52 6 November 2020 10: 02 New
    -5
    direct air ducts with an open architecture of the blades of the TRDDF compressors, as well as the flight of the cockpit canopy and optoelectronic modules "carried out" above the surface of the fuselage contours;

    well, it's ridiculous to replicate this nonsense 100500 times negative
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 7 November 2020 13: 12 New
      -1
      Are you going to say that the absence of the above will not change the ultra-small (in comparison with the Su-30/35) EPR of the Su-57 for the better? smile
    2. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 9 November 2020 19: 35 New
      0
      Quote: Ka-52
      direct air ducts with an open architecture of the blades of the TRDDF compressors, as well as the flight of the cockpit canopy and optoelectronic modules "carried out" above the surface of the fuselage contours;

      well, it's ridiculous to replicate this nonsense 100500 times negative


      Teach physics and mechanics to cheat ...
      return to any polytechnic university, I can even help you to Samara, if you can prove your right to teach ...
      And bring knowledge back into real frames ..

      And if you cannot, then shut up and never shine again. yap...!!!!
  12. Scipio African
    Scipio African 6 November 2020 11: 00 New
    +1
    I sympathize with the American pilots, with such analysts and disinformation it is not necessary
  13. Operator
    Operator 6 November 2020 11: 15 New
    -1
    There is no need to attribute the F-22 to something that does not exist - in the public report of the chief designer of the Sukhoi Design Bureau to the President of the Russian Federation, it was unambiguously stated that the Su-57 does not outperform foreign stealth fighters with an EPR of 0,3 - 0,4 sq.m. Those. in the most extreme case, the Su-57 has a RCS of 0,4 sq.m.

    EPR at the level of 0,1 sq. M. Only the F-117 special aircraft has due to the faceted airframe and honeycomb structure, which is not even close to the F-22. Therefore, the RCS of the F-22 can be estimated not less than 0,2 sq.m.
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 7 November 2020 13: 02 New
      +1
      Data sources? (Eye gauge? smile )
  14. arhPavel
    arhPavel 6 November 2020 11: 43 New
    +2
    They are throwing in slag so that experts begin to refute by leaking information. The information is confirmed 5-7 times from different sources. Make adjustments to themselves.
    It's just that information is being collected and processed.

    Personally, I think they are right about everything. And we just need more such aircraft :) so that for each NATO aircraft of ours, not 5 as now, but 15
    1. strelokmira
      strelokmira 7 November 2020 10: 41 New
      -2
      They are throwing in slag so that experts begin to refute by leaking information

      What information, what experts, it is touching to watch this circus winked
  15. Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 6 November 2020 11: 47 New
    +3
    No one really knows the EPR of the F-22. What numbers have I not seen! What is there to compare?
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 7 November 2020 13: 13 New
      -2
      Lockheed knows. 0,001-0,0001 from the front.
  16. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 6 November 2020 12: 38 New
    +3
    The big question is, at what distance the "product 180" radar guidance system will be able to lock onto a target with a similar RCS.

    And the comparison is not with the outdated AIM-120D, but with the modern MBDA "Meteor", equipped with a ramjet engine with an adjustable system for feeding powder TT into the combustion chamber. This technology allows the rocket to reach maximum speed in the final section of the trajectory.
    The ballistic range of the missile is 250-300 km, the guidance system INS + RK + ARL GOS

    (Source: http://nevskii-bastion.ru/meteor-mbda/ VTS "NEVSKY BASTION" AVKarpenko)
    1. Dmitry V.
      Dmitry V. 6 November 2020 12: 51 New
      +2
      The MBDA Meteor BVRAAM is one of the world's most advanced air-to-air missiles, equipped with a unique ramjet propulsion system that allows it to travel long distances and fly faster than other missiles in its class. The platform has also been integrated into the Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale, Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II and Saab JAS 39 Gripen.
      Source: http://nevskii-bastion.ru/meteor-mbda/ VTS "NEVSKY BASTION" AVKarpenko
      Those. potentially in service: NATO countries, Japan, Brazil, South Korea, India.
      1. Fulcrumxnumx
        6 November 2020 16: 12 New
        +2
        Meanwhile, to date, "Meteor" is undergoing software, hardware and design adaptation for use only in the SUV and from the inner fuselage compartments of the weapons of F-35B fighters (for the British Air Force), while the integration of these missiles into the F-22A ammunition nothing is known at the moment ... As for the renewal of the Su-57 ammunition, the resumption of the "frozen" program for the development of the "Product-180PD" missile defense missile system with a similar IRPD would provide the Su-57 with comprehensive dominance in air battles with promising tactical enemy aircraft ... Unfortunately, MKB "Fakel" postponed this project for a long time ...
      2. Fulcrumxnumx
        6 November 2020 16: 13 New
        +1
        The active-semi-active RGSN type 9B-1103M-200PA, installed on the RVV-SD URVB (and possibly the "Product 180"), is capable of capturing a target with an EPR of 0,07 - 0,1 sq. m at a distance of 5 - 7 km. I believe the H036 AFAR radar will provide this opportunity. As for the MBDA "Meteor" with an integral rocket-ramjet engine, it really surpasses both the AIM-120D and the "Product 180" in terms of flight performance, realized in the terminal section of the trajectory due to the possibility of adjusting the intensity of the powder solid propellant charge into the combustion chamber and prolongation of the period of its consumption, which allows you to maintain a moderate thrust on the cruising section of the trajectory and increase it to maximum indicators at the terminal, bringing the speed to 4M and available overloads to 30-35G. We have mentioned the peculiarities of this URSM in our numerous previous reviews ...
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 7 November 2020 13: 26 New
          -2
          The active-semi-active RGSN type 9B-1103M-200PA, installed on the RVV-SD URVB (and possibly the "Product 180"), is capable of capturing a target with an EPR of 0,07 - 0,1 sq. m at a distance of 5 - 7 km.

          The seeker is similar to that of the latest AIM-120.
          5-7 km is not enough. RCS of the 22nd from the front is 100-1000 times less. Accordingly, 7 kilometers should be reduced by 3,16-5,62 times (2,21-1,24 km), which is very small. (It is clear that the RCS rises from other angles).
          The Raptor radar has a higher declared characteristics in terms of the number of tracked targets than the "Belka", the EPR range of 1 m2 (I suppose) is comparable.
          But in a counter search, the F-22 will be the first to see the Su-57, and the first to launch missiles (from the optimal energy distance).
          1. SovAr238A
            SovAr238A 9 November 2020 19: 55 New
            0
            Quote: 3danimal
            The active-semi-active RGSN type 9B-1103M-200PA, installed on the RVV-SD URVB (and possibly the "Product 180"), is capable of capturing a target with an EPR of 0,07 - 0,1 sq. m at a distance of 5 - 7 km.

            The seeker is similar to that of the latest AIM-120.
            5-7 km is not enough. RCS of the 22nd from the front is 100-1000 times less. Accordingly, 7 kilometers should be reduced by 3,16-5,62 times (2,21-1,24 km), which is very small. (It is clear that the RCS rises from other angles).
            The Raptor radar has a higher declared characteristics in terms of the number of tracked targets than the "Belka", the EPR range of 1 m2 (I suppose) is comparable.
            But in a counter search, the F-22 will be the first to see the Su-57, and the first to launch missiles (from the optimal energy distance).



            Fools who consider the GOS Meteor to be equal to the RGSN of the 9B-1103M-200PA type ... It is at least 2 orders of magnitude higher than what is being compared ... And the author, at one point decided to get into his article - to say nothing in fact. except for advertising brochures about Active-Semi-active GOS, which are considered obsolete 20 years ago ...
            1. 3danimal
              3danimal 9 November 2020 21: 17 New
              0
              Active-semi-active GOS, which are considered obsolete 20 years ago ...

              Agree good
      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. Fulcrumxnumx
      6 November 2020 16: 02 New
      0
      The active-semi-active RGSN type 9B-1103M-200PA, installed on the RVV-SD URVB (and possibly the "Product 180"), is capable of capturing a target with an EPR of 0,07 - 0,1 sq. m at a distance of 5 - 7 km. I believe the H036 AFAR radar will provide this opportunity. As for the MBDA "Meteor" with an integral rocket-ramjet engine, it really surpasses both the AIM-120D and the "Product 180" in terms of flight performance, realized in the terminal section of the trajectory due to the possibility of adjusting the intensity of the powder solid propellant charge into the combustion chamber and prolongation of the period of its consumption, which allows you to maintain a moderate thrust on the cruising section of the trajectory and increase it to maximum indicators at the terminal, bringing the speed to 4M and available overloads to 30-35G. We have mentioned the peculiarities of this URSM in our numerous previous reviews ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 9 November 2020 12: 23 New
        -1
        A beautiful tale about Meteora. Can you tell me what the speed and height of the carrier of this rocket should be at the time of launch and whether the Meteor has a variable thrust vector in order to try to shoot down an aircraft with super-maneuverability. And the low speed in the first phase of the flight does not bother, as does the range of 100 km, and this is provided that the carrier rushes at supersonic speed at a high altitude, that is, it is itself a target for air defense.
        There is nothing breakthrough in rockets, you win in one thing, you lose in another, you cannot deceive Tsialkovsky's law.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 9 November 2020 20: 07 New
          +3
          Quote: Victor Sergeev
          A beautiful tale about Meteora. Can you tell me what the speed and height of the carrier of this rocket should be at the time of launch and whether the Meteor has a variable thrust vector in order to try to shoot down an aircraft with super-maneuverability. And the low speed in the first phase of the flight does not bother, as does the range of 100 km, and this is provided that the carrier rushes at supersonic speed at a high altitude, that is, it is itself a target for air defense.
          There is nothing breakthrough in rockets, you win in one thing, you lose in another, you cannot deceive Tsialkovsky's law.

          Any super-maneuverability of the aircraft is limited to a speed of 400-450m knots. Those. on average up to 600 km / h.
          All super-maneuverability from above - cannot be realized because it destroys the center section of the aircraft and takes the pilot into exorbitant overloads.

          Accordingly, above 9G - no manned aircraft can carry out overloads.
          Rocket В-В, absolutely any modern one has an overload level of up to 60 G in the longitudinal direction and up to 40 G in the transverse direction.
          To achieve interception, a two-fold overload advantage is required in extreme cases.
          Not a single modern aircraft, when capturing a seeker, has no chances to get away from the rocket with all of your super-maneuvers ...
          Yes, 30 years ago the super-maneuverability of airplanes seemed "aH" ....
          And then there were ring engines and much more.

          It is necessary to study the materiel, and not just sing praises ...
          1. Viktor Sergeev
            Viktor Sergeev 9 November 2020 20: 39 New
            -2
            It is immediately clear that you did not learn the principles of targeting and the dependence of the missile's ability to maneuver on whether the engine is running at the moment. If the target maneuvers in the 9G area, for example, makes a cobra or pulls the speed to 0, due to the IWT, the rocket has several problems at once: a failure of the speed guidance, secondly, the overload of the rocket should be much greater than the target overload, because the rocket is not a fighter and does not go into the tail of the target while repeating its maneuver. Who blurted out about 60G? Actually, according to various sources, from 10 to 35, but 35 is more likely during acceleration, otherwise the rocket will stupidly fall apart.
            1. SovAr238A
              SovAr238A 9 November 2020 20: 53 New
              0
              Quote: Victor Sergeev
              Р

              the rocket has no problems ...
              there are no disruptions to the attack. because there are no Doppler changes, etc. etc.
              she just stupidly enters the target ... and does not repeat any maneuvers.
              Stop believing in this nonsense, for it has long been debunked ...

              Mika's starting point is 60G, shunting 40G ..
              And now tell the Russian pilot that this is all bullshit, and he can dodge it ...
              Can you be impaled for this? Are you ready to de-anonymize and voice your name and surname, so that real people come and for your lies they put you on a stake for real?

              Moreover, the next missiles will work in pairs - each will be on the trajectory of the plane's correct position.

              They will just drive him. like wolves. knowing the capabilities of the aircraft. pilot, etc.
              In the near future, planes will have no chance ...
              Look. as shown in Star Wars - all this is now being realized in fact.
              1. Viktor Sergeev
                Viktor Sergeev 9 November 2020 21: 28 New
                0
                Well, yes, debunked by you and the "experts". In general, I was taught radar at a military school and I understand that the most difficult thing for a radar station is to hold a target with a rapid drop in speed and flying at speeds close to 0. About a couple you are right, just let me tell you a secret: against super-maneuverable aircraft, a pair of missiles will most likely turn out a little, since the plane continues to maneuver when an ordinary stupidly becomes uncontrollable due to a loss of speed. In my time, on the C200, shooting 3 was envisaged at maneuvering targets, and that probability was around 90%. By the way, how many missiles can a fighter take aboard, especially an "invisible" one?
                Eh, I would draw you how a rocket guesses where the plane will arrive, it has a certain program and if the plane maneuvers even with 2G the rocket is forced to maneuver with overloads much more, up to destruction.
                1. SovAr238A
                  SovAr238A 9 November 2020 21: 30 New
                  0
                  Quote: Victor Sergeev
                  Well, yes, debunked by you and the "experts". In general, I was taught radar at a military school and I understand that the most difficult thing for a radar station is to hold a target with a rapid drop in speed and flying at speeds close to 0. About a couple you are right, just let me tell you a secret: against super-maneuverable aircraft, a pair of missiles will most likely turn out a little, since the plane continues to maneuver when an ordinary stupidly becomes uncontrollable due to a loss of speed. In my time, on the C200, shooting 3 was envisaged at maneuvering targets, and that probability was around 90%. By the way, how many missiles can a fighter take aboard, especially an "invisible" one?
                  Eh, I would draw you how a rocket guesses where the plane will arrive, it has a certain program and if the plane maneuvers even with 2G the rocket is forced to maneuver with overloads much more, up to destruction.


                  Crying out about the depler shift?
                  Which was previously selected at ranges and differences of 150 kilometers. and now has 20mm?

                  Well, learn again a new materiel ...
                2. Hexenmeister
                  Hexenmeister 10 November 2020 09: 18 New
                  0
                  Eh, I would draw you how a rocket guesses where the plane will arrive, it has a certain program and if the plane maneuvers even with 2G the rocket is forced to maneuver with overloads much more, up to destruction.
                  Apparently, you seem to be from "ground air defense", where there are so many troubles ... then they "do not shoot with radars", then command guidance and with an additional channel for obtaining information about the target through a missile, then they will come up with a guidance method, even if you stop or fall. But in fact, there are guidance methods in which overloads will be required from the rocket no higher than the target overload, and overloads above these will arise only at the stage of transition from the launch trajectory to the guidance trajectory, and the question is not in the maximum overload, but in the stock of kinetic energy required by the rocket for practicing target maneuvers in the guidance process.
              2. Viktor Sergeev
                Viktor Sergeev 9 November 2020 21: 34 New
                +1
                Did you come up with the 60s and 40s yourself or did you get the instructions for the rocket? Can you tell me what the rocket does at the start from an airplane with an overload of 60G? Yes, planes will have no chance, and who will carry missiles, helicopters? There is electronic warfare, interceptor missiles that will work great against Meteor. About the tanks, they thought they were dead.
            2. 3danimal
              3danimal 10 November 2020 20: 38 New
              -1
              makes a cobra

              Doesn't help against modern GOS. And in close combat, with a high probability, it turns you into an easy target - after all, you have lost energy and lost (temporarily) the ability to maneuver. Hit the hanging "bird" even from the cannon ..
              pulls the speed to 0, due to IWT

              An easy target, voluntarily good
        2. 3danimal
          3danimal 9 November 2020 21: 22 New
          -1
          The aircraft can use OBT in a limited range of speeds. Do it at 0,9M + - and fall into a tailspin or destroy the glider.
          The maximum allowable overload for the Su-35 is 11g. Meteora - 36g. The triple superiority requirement (for the rocket) is met.
          Hope for active maneuvers coupled with a variety of dipole reflectors.
          that is, it is itself a target for air defense.

          Meeting in neutral territory, as an option.
          The fact is that this missile will provide advantages to its side.
      3. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 9 November 2020 20: 00 New
        -1
        [quote = Fulcrum29] Active-semi-active RGSN type 9B-1103M-200PA, installed on the RVV-SD URVB (and possibly the "Product 180"), is capable of capturing a target with EPR 0,07 - 0,1 sq. m at a distance of 5 - 7 km. I believe the H036 AFAR radar will provide this opportunity. [quote]
        Eugene, are you stupid?

        Do you really think that medium and long-range UR-explosives should be Active-Semi-active?
        Those. according to the scheme of work. should be guided by the signal reflected from the aircraft radar?

        In this case, I can assure you - you are Sharik!
        Just Sharik from Prostokvashino ...
        Any aircraft in the European theater of operations with missiles of this type is doomed to be destroyed within 3-5 minutes from the moment the target starts tracking for the seeker ...

        Eugene - die silently so that no one can see you ..
        Just burn yourself off in records about copper sulfate and manure for summer cottages.
        About all sorts of nitroammofoski.
        Summer residents are usually just stupid - and they will not poke you in the side with a pitchfork for your insignificance in knowledge ...
    3. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 6 November 2020 22: 33 New
      +2
      The meteor has a range of about a hundred kilometers, what plane can launch it for three hundred kilometers?
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 9 November 2020 12: 25 New
        +1
        Magic. It accelerates to 3000 km / h and throws a rocket like a stone and after 200 km. the engine turns on, and the pilot hopes that during the flight the target will not go anywhere.
  17. Fulcrumxnumx
    6 November 2020 16: 38 New
    +2
    A much more alarming event is the development by the MBDA consortium (with the support of specialists from the Japanese Mitsubishi Electric Corp.) of an upgraded version of the Meteor equipped with a unique anti-jamming system based on AFAR ... series "Products-180PD" / RVV-AE-PD, and secondly, by equipping these ARGSN missiles based on radio-photon AFAR ...
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 7 November 2020 13: 29 New
      0
      Again, ROFAR went, and even in the GOS ... I suggested that someone argue for money that before the 30th year, not a single serial model, even an airborne radar, would appear smile
    2. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 9 November 2020 20: 18 New
      +1
      Quote: Fulcrum29
      A much more alarming event is the development by the MBDA consortium (with the support of specialists from the Japanese Mitsubishi Electric Corp.) of an upgraded version of the Meteor equipped with a unique anti-jamming system based on AFAR ... series "Products-180PD" / RVV-AE-PD, and secondly, by equipping these ARGSN missiles based on radio-photon AFAR ...

      Or maybe just come up with at least one missile AFAR?
      Or are we going to introduce fairy tales about radiotophone into immature brains?

      Aren't you tired of being a liar?

      Or, Eugene. you have some other citizenship. except for the RF?
      Are you a Ukrainian by your main citizenship?

      I just don't understand how you can lie like that for 5-8 years. with firm confidence. what are you for your lies. nobody will punish?
  18. Turanov
    Turanov 6 November 2020 17: 01 New
    -6
    Well, of course, there are shortcomings and they are working on this .. But to belittle our fighter in such a way, it’s too much .. Everything will come up in a combat situation, and Russia is trying to test its weapons in this way.
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 7 November 2020 13: 31 New
      -1
      Air intakes - how do you redo? Lamp? (Objectivity)
      Trying to ... bombing the barmaley? Where are the air battles?
      (Oh, they don't have planes smile )
  19. evgen1221
    evgen1221 6 November 2020 19: 22 New
    0
    Quite a standard, a classic of industrial espionage - we write an article and read the comments with refutations - we compare = we may learn something new for ourselves.
  20. Berg berg
    Berg berg 6 November 2020 20: 16 New
    -3
    According to Russian military experts, the American F-35 and F-22 cannot compete with the Russian Su-57 at all, as it was stated, even without questions! Since neither the F-35 nor the F22 correspond to the data of the fifth generation aircraft, I can easily detect them by the Russian air defense systems. And as it was recently announced by American experts, stealth technology is a dead end and it is useless to develop it further.
  21. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 6 November 2020 20: 52 New
    +3
    And not tired?
    Compare the aircraft 20 years ago, smoothly approaching the middle of service, with the SU 57, which did not even enter service.
  22. Karen Khoreev
    Karen Khoreev 6 November 2020 22: 03 New
    0
    Everything is correctly painted from the point of view of theory .. This, in principle, is enough to throw the bait at future buyers. Both from the side of our website and from the side of the English analyst ... But! The only question is that in a real battle, an Indian ace on a MiG-21 is able to make an average pilot from the Pakistani Air Force on an F-16 .. Well, or vice versa) You can talk as much as you like about the characteristics of weapons installed on aircraft, but dushman, standing on a mountain with a stinger, shaggy year of release, will be more dangerous than the most modern missiles fired from a distance of 170 km ... The pilot, in the second case, will have a mountain of time, unlike a few seconds in the case of a dushman ... I will reveal a military secret ) A combat unit in the Air Force and the Aerospace Forces has always been, is and will be not an airplane, but a pilot !!! And it is the pilot's level that will ultimately determine the winner. Conclusion: All these articles are nothing more than promotions for the Papuans, who are ready to exchange everything earned or dug out of the ground for a means of destroying their own kind ... Real characteristics can only be provided by statistics)
    1. passerby
      passerby 8 November 2020 03: 57 New
      +1
      Quote: Karen Khoreev
      I will reveal a military secret) A combat unit in the Air Force and the Aerospace Forces has always been, is and will not be an airplane, but a pilot !!! And it is the pilot's level that will ultimately determine the winner.

      This is exactly what the Indians thought before the conquistadors armed with firearms came to them. And where are those Indians now - masters of hand-to-hand combat and archery?
      1. Karen Khoreev
        Karen Khoreev 10 November 2020 10: 20 New
        0
        The main disadvantage of the Indians was not the lack of modern weapons, but naive credulity! Yes, and from arrows, many conquistadors went to places rich in game) Where the tribes did not differ in friendship, they still live in their primitive communal system ...
    2. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 9 November 2020 20: 22 New
      0
      Quote: Karen Khoreev
      Everything is correctly painted from the point of view of theory .. This, in principle, is enough to throw the bait at future buyers. Both from the side of our website and from the side of the English analyst ... But! The only question is that in a real battle, an Indian ace on a MiG-21 is able to make an average pilot from the Pakistani Air Force on an F-16 .. Well, or vice versa) You can talk as much as you like about the characteristics of weapons installed on aircraft, but dushman, standing on a mountain with a stinger, shaggy year of release, will be more dangerous than the most modern missiles fired from a distance of 170 km ... The pilot, in the second case, will have a mountain of time, unlike a few seconds in the case of a dushman ... I will reveal a military secret ) A combat unit in the Air Force and the Aerospace Forces has always been, is and will be not an airplane, but a pilot !!! And it is the pilot's level that will ultimately determine the winner. Conclusion: All these articles are nothing more than promotions for the Papuans, who are ready to exchange everything earned or dug out of the ground for a means of destroying their own kind ... Real characteristics can only be provided by statistics)


      all nonsense ...
      there are no facts about that. that the Indians shot down the F-16. But there are facts. that the packs shot down the MiG-21.

      Play the rest as you wish.
      But it's not that.

      Did you know that only 20% of pilots of the highest qualification of 4 generation aircraft? able to fly 5th generation aircraft?
      Did not know? Know!

      And for the future, just ponder this. hell knows what the difference is and why she could be so ...
      1. Karen Khoreev
        Karen Khoreev 9 November 2020 23: 37 New
        0
        First, read carefully the posts you comment ...
        Secondly, what are the statistics about 20% of pilots capable of flying in the fifth generation? The rest of the ass size did not come out? At one time, we are in Yeisk, in our third year, 19-year-old boys, without any problems (in most cases), changed from L-29 to Su-7B, and after graduation, whoever went where .. Our release flew and still flies on everything: From the same Elok and to the Su-33 on Kuza ... I'm already silent about helicopters .. And about missiles, I'll tell you this - the only thing that can prevent a pilot from getting away from any missile is the lack of time! Any rocket has limitations in performance .. And if the Alert System is working properly, and you didn’t play around with pears, but taught materiel, you will find a way to get out .. These are not books - this is experience!
  23. Klingon
    Klingon 6 November 2020 23: 49 New
    0
    and why to dissuade Western ExPersons by proving the opposite? let them think that drying is worse in all respects. It is even necessary, on the contrary, to start whining in the media space that the Su-57 falls short of its Western counterparts. ..- "Convince the enemy that you are weak, so that he loses his vigilance, feeling self-confidence" - in my opinion from Sun Tzu, I may not quote exactly, but the meaning is clear wassat
  24. TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR 6 November 2020 23: 59 New
    +2
    I do not think that the Raptors will fight against the SU-57 without radar and electronic support for AWACS-type AWACS aircraft and other crap. From them they will receive target designations.
    1. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 9 November 2020 12: 11 New
      -2
      They may and would be happy to use AWACS only the question: how long will AWACS live in the event of a collision not with barmaley, but with Su, Mig and S400? Su57, however, will not fight flying as in a parade, but rather (given the superiority of the United States in aircraft) they will cover their troops, being part of the air defense. According to AWACS, electronic warfare systems will work, reducing the efficiency and range of work, that is, AWACS will need to fly close enough to become a target for missiles, and F22 will be used to protect AWACS.
      Although all this is nonsense, if F22 and Su57 meet, then the Yars and Tridents will decide everything and who will be interested in the radioactive ruins?
      1. TatarinSSSR
        TatarinSSSR 9 November 2020 19: 49 New
        0
        AWACS does not need to enter the range of Russian long-range air defense systems. Its task is to direct fighters at targets that have emerged from under the air defense umbrella and are going to intercept aircraft, UAVs and kr attacking this very air defense. US missiles.
        1. Viktor Sergeev
          Viktor Sergeev 9 November 2020 20: 29 New
          -1
          Do you really believe that? The range of the air defense (against an AWACS type target) is 400 km., And maybe more, the range of the AWACS action (if it is not pressed by electronic warfare) against targets such as Mig29, Su25 in the region of 400 km., For Su27 - 500, at medium altitudes, in the absence of interference. The interference will reduce the distance by a factor of 2. What we have: AWACS will have to fly at a distance of 500 km. from the enemy's air defense systems and will stupidly see only its own territory, on which no one will attack the RC, but when the RC approaches 200 km. to the front line they will be met by fighters, under the cover of an air defense umbrella.
          The cruise missile speed is subsonic, 200 km. it will fly for about 15 minutes and how long will it fly in the face of opposition from normal air defense? By the way, modern air defense systems do not attack the CD, since they did not learn to shoot at mobile installations, plus the C300, 400 is covered by Thors and Armor, for these purposes they use PRLR, and their range is small.
          1. TatarinSSSR
            TatarinSSSR 9 November 2020 20: 58 New
            -1
            Even if we take the range of the S-400 missiles at 400 km, this is the maximum range. How long does it take for an anti-aircraft missile to fly to a target at this range? How many times will the same AWACS detect it and take all countermeasures and evasion? How much fuel for maneuvering will remain in the S-400 missile defense system when it has flown most of this distance? Besides, the earth is round, if you remember. And a launch at a target 400 km away, even if it is at an altitude of 12 km, is a launch beyond the horizon. Look less fairy tales like "military acceptance" on the Star, dear. You will know and understand more truth.
            1. Viktor Sergeev
              Viktor Sergeev 9 November 2020 21: 19 New
              0
              AWACS missile evasion measures? What is it like? It is not necessary to maneuver an AWACS missile defense system, it flies like a brick for most of its flight, but against a large aircraft this is enough. By the way, the S400 can launch a rocket over the horizon with the subsequent capture of the target by the rocket itself. I advise you to read less Western analysts and study the basics of radar and the principles of missile operation, otherwise you have stopped at the C75 level.
              1. TatarinSSSR
                TatarinSSSR 9 November 2020 21: 32 New
                0
                First, get to know the E-3C active and passive safety system (an improved version of the E-3B, equipped with an APY-2 radar; it became possible to suspend AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles for self-defense), not to mention its escort aircraft. .. "To consider the enemy stupid means to doom yourself to defeat in advance."

                Duration of patrolling at a distance of 1600 km without refueling in the air - 6 hours;
                The duration of the flight without refueling in the air is 11 hours.
                Detection range of bomber-type aircraft - 520 km;
                detection range of low-flying small targets - 400 km;
                Target detection range over the horizon - 650 km;
                Detection range of objects with RCS 1 m2 - 425 km;
      2. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 9 November 2020 20: 33 New
        +2
        Quote: Victor Sergeev
        They may and would be happy to use AWACS only the question: how long will AWACS live in the event of a collision not with barmaley, but with Su, Mig and S400? Su57, however, will not fight flying as in a parade, but rather (given the superiority of the United States in aircraft) they will cover their troops, being part of the air defense. According to AWACS, electronic warfare systems will work, reducing the efficiency and range of work, that is, AWACS will need to fly close enough to become a target for missiles, and F22 will be used to protect AWACS.
        Although all this is nonsense, if F22 and Su57 meet, then the Yars and Tridents will decide everything and who will be interested in the radioactive ruins?


        How long will the S-400 live on the battlefield? In the presence of hundreds of Harms?
        The same goes for electronic warfare systems ...
        minutes 5?
        Do you know the operating procedure of the GOS HARM?
        Apparently not ..

        AWACS do not fly alone, they are covered by a couple of fighters. with AMRAAMI version D, which are beautifully aimed at the huge carcasses of our long-range missiles that do not have a low-altitude regime.
        All our long-range UR VVs go far up - where they can be seen by everyone and everyone.
        and the same AMRAAM and Saidwinder 9X will perfectly aim at the already slow-speed, terminal-mode gliding compressor station with a hull diameter of 42 cm.

        Teach materiel
        1. user1212
          user1212 11 November 2020 17: 20 New
          0
          Quote: SovAr238A
          How long will the S-400 live on the battlefield? In the presence of hundreds of Harms?

          You talk nonsense so selflessly laughing
          In general, your posts remind me of an old anecdote:
          French: I have 15cm
          Russian: I have 16
          Ukrainian: and the American has 27
  25. ZEMCH
    ZEMCH 7 November 2020 04: 07 New
    0
    Pilots are fighting on airplanes, it all depends on their training and skills in using specific equipment. Su-57 and F-22 were created for specific application concepts. You can write anything you want, but only a real collision will show the capabilities of the aircraft
    1. passerby
      passerby 8 November 2020 04: 02 New
      0
      Quote: ZEMCH
      Pilots are fighting on airplanes, it all depends on their training and skills in using specific equipment

      Outstanding skills in using tomahawks in battle did not help the Indians much in clashing with conquistadors armed with firearms. Why do you think? Maybe the skills of handling tomahawks still needed to be "rocked"?
      1. ZEMCH
        ZEMCH 8 November 2020 10: 31 New
        0
        It was about airplanes, here is an example: the P-39 Airacobra - the American and British pilots did not like it, but in the USSR they took into account all the best qualities of this airplane and 11 out of 27 twice Heroes of the Soviet Union flew this plane. wink
        Of the famous Soviet aces, Amet-Khan Sultan, G. Rechkalov, N. Gulaev, V. Fadeev, P. Kutakhov (who later became Air Marshal and Deputy Minister of Defense of the USSR) fought on P-39. G. Rechkalov, who shot down exactly 50 enemy aircraft on it, won the greatest number of victories on the Aircobra. Three times Hero of the Soviet Union A.I. Pokryshkin, who also flew the P-39, won 48 of his 59 air victories on this aircraft wink
        So, I repeat once again - the pilot is a combat unit, and the plane is an instrument!
        1. passerby
          passerby 8 November 2020 10: 51 New
          +1
          Quote: ZEMCH
          It was about aircraft, here's an example: P-39 Airacobra - American and British pilots did not like it,

          It was about the fact that one aircraft is significantly inferior in parameters to another. Accordingly, the situation when yesterday's cadet on the F-22 will be able to shoot down the Su-57 in the cockpit of which an ace pilot with many hundreds of flight hours only for the reason that this pilot will not even have time to even detect the F-22, which does not seem normal to me and I don’t quite understand what analogy you saw between the described situation and the situation with the R-39 Airacobra.
          1. ZEMCH
            ZEMCH 8 November 2020 11: 16 New
            0
            Quote: bystander
            It was about the fact that one aircraft is significantly inferior in parameters to another.

            Are you sure !? So far, these are only the words of one against the words of the other! wink
            Only a real clash will show. In the air (objectively with a photo), only once Russian aircraft approached the F-22, remaining unnoticed. After that, the F-22 was no longer used in this theater! wink
            1. passerby
              passerby 8 November 2020 14: 33 New
              0
              Quote: ZEMCH
              Are you sure !? So far, these are only the words of one against the words of the other!

              Agree that this is another question, you just wrote about the pilots in this thread, and not about the fact that the Sud-57 is not inferior to the F-22
        2. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 9 November 2020 20: 38 New
          -1
          Quote: ZEMCH

          So, I repeat once again - the pilot is a combat unit, and the plane is an instrument!


          Nonsense...
          Learn materiel and step back from harmful experiences.
          In a modern VVB, if your plane does not give you an advantage, then no matter what pilot he is, he will never get an advantage ...
      2. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 9 November 2020 12: 12 New
        +1
        You are wrong, it was not the tomahawks that lost, but the human stupidity and naivety of the Indians. It was not firearms that won, but the disunity of the Indians, the ability of the Spaniards to deceive, set tribes against each other, that is, meanness won honor, that's the whole secret.
    2. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 9 November 2020 20: 36 New
      0
      Quote: ZEMCH
      Pilots are fighting on airplanes, it all depends on their training and skills in using specific equipment. Su-57 and F-22 were created for specific application concepts. You can write anything you want, but only a real collision will show the capabilities of the aircraft

      Pilots can only do as much as planes can ...
      not more...

      And there is also such a thing as a unified battlefield.

      And if everything is shown to the enemy within a radius of 50000 km, but nothing to you. Besides . what will give you a radar and an OLS - then your chances are simply zero ...

      Even if your plane is superior in performance in direct comparison.
  26. Sergey Russky
    Sergey Russky 7 November 2020 06: 25 New
    +3
    as my CWP teacher used to say - "in theory a horse, but in practice it is unlucky"
  27. Operator
    Operator 7 November 2020 13: 45 New
    -5
    Quote: 3danimal
    Data sources? (Eye gauge?)

    The brain, however.
  28. Outsider
    Outsider 8 November 2020 17: 02 New
    -1
    - Of course, this is another batch of bluffs from Mr. Bronk, because the RCS from the front hemisphere of the F-22 is less than that of the Su-57, not 20 times, as Mr. Bronk is lying, but about 1000 times. Therefore, the same Su-57 radar / radar will be detected at distances greater by about √√1000 = 5.62 times. Just just ... laughing lol
  29. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 9 November 2020 11: 49 New
    -1
    The main drawback: he is not American, otherwise they would sing praises. American "experts" are like a child trying to prove that his ... is better. They argue with themselves, betraying fear. A real kid doesn't need to prove to anyone.
  30. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 9 November 2020 11: 57 New
    -1
    And the Briton does not notice the electronic warfare systems and super-maneuverability, which allow both to reduce the detection range, to disrupt missile guidance, and most importantly to avoid long-range missiles at the moment when the fuel is depleted and the rocket's maneuverability is greatly reduced.
    1. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 9 November 2020 20: 42 New
      0
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      And the Briton does not notice the electronic warfare systems and super-maneuverability, which allow both to reduce the detection range, to disrupt missile guidance, and most importantly to avoid long-range missiles at the moment when the fuel is depleted and the rocket's maneuverability is greatly reduced.


      Electronic warfare works in battles on aircraft of different generations.
      Electronic warfare in aircraft of the same generation is approximately the same.
      Therefore, the forces of electronic warfare can be neglected if the planes really differ in generations.

      Svehmanervnost is complete nonsense, because it does not work at high speeds in principle.
      But only at speeds up to 600 km / h.

      Pilot overloads do not allow aircraft to overload over 9G, which is two to three times lower than the maneuverable overloads of the UR-VV BD missiles.

      And the rest. if there is a brain, then analyze and think with your head.
  31. Phoenix040
    Phoenix040 10 November 2020 00: 07 New
    +1
    The F-22 has serious problems with the resistance of the stealth coating to rain and even cloudiness, does not have a controllable horizontal thrust vector of the engines, the radar is still not very reliable. And the very invisibility of the aircraft is a big question, given that the vaunted V-2s were clearly visible even on the radars of the Soviet MiG-29s, which is why they were discontinued. In general, now only the number of F-22s is on the side of the F-57, because the Su-22, which the Russian Air Force can count on today, is significantly less than the F-XNUMX in the Yankees
  32. Outsider
    Outsider 11 November 2020 19: 28 New
    0
    Quote: bayard
    More like provoking an opponent to provide information that is missing for analysis. There is very little information about the Belka ballistic missile system, its real characteristics and the fact itself - whether it worked. It is really very difficult to coordinate the synchronous operation of four multi-frequency canvases + two meter modules in the slats. It is very difficult for us to debug such work on the ships - how many torments there were with the Polyment and the new unresolved crap with the Zaslon for corvettes. Therefore, the doubts of the English analyst are not just understandable ... he literally provokes his Russian opponents to rush to justify his mistake with the numbers and real parameters of the RLC ... If Damantsev knew the subject of the discussion, he would have leaked everything and "proved".
    I'm also interested in learning more about the "Squirrel", but ... spies are not asleep. bully

    - Spies work directly in those research and production enterprises where this product is created. There, for very little money, they buy everything they need from the natives. Not in order, of course, that these production secretaries would later be introduced by Northrop Grumman, or Raytheon, but so that the Pentagon would "keep their finger on the pulse" - what is the achieved level of a potential enemy? Should I push myself harder (with R&D funding, for example) or not?
  33. Outsider
    Outsider 11 November 2020 19: 32 New
    0
    Quote: The same Lech
    Hooray articles about not killed F-22 will end ... when they begin to fall to the ground.
    A real war is an unpredictable thing and it requires enormous resources ... and the F-22 is an expensive plane ... a very expensive plane for a long war ... one might say a piece goods ... it is of little use for total war.

    - It was made just for the global conflict ... In local ones, such as Syria, it is taken out just to "ventilate" ...
  34. Outsider
    Outsider 11 November 2020 19: 37 New
    -1
    Quote: Dangerous
    Uh, why don't we have a strong economy? It's strange, resources, territory, people ... It seems that everything is there.

    - In order for Russia to become at first a prosperous, and then a powerful country, its president must be Khodorkovsky for two terms, Yavlinsky’s two terms as prime minister, then they change places, and Navalny is the prosecutor general for all 24 years ... laughing lol (Not a joke)
  35. Outsider
    Outsider 11 November 2020 19: 44 New
    -1
    Quote: Phoenix040
    F-22 has serious problems with the rain resistance of the stealth cover

    - It is not true.
    and even cloudy

    - It's just "vegetable oil nonsense."
    has no horizontal thrust vector of the engines

    - He is not needed in FIG.
    The radar is still not reliable.

    - This is a lie. And there will never be proof.
    And the very invisibility of the aircraft is a big question, given that the vaunted V-2s were clearly visible even on the radars of the Soviet MiG-29s, which is why they were discontinued.

    - It's just raving. The stupidest one.
    In general, now on the side of the F-22 only the number

    - Generals of the US Air Force say that it was necessary to release 381 aircraft, China launched a series 500 J-20.
    ... because the Su-57, which the Russian Air Force can count on today, is significantly less than the F-22 of the Yankees

    - The Su-57 is "a stillborn child", no one needs it either in the world or in the relatives of the Russian Air Force. This is a senseless creation, which is no better than the Su-35S, at three times the price ...
  36. Outsider
    Outsider 11 November 2020 20: 01 New
    0
    Quote: Karen Khoreev
    ... And about missiles, I will tell you this - the only thing that can prevent a pilot from getting away from any missile is the lack of time! Any rocket has limitations in performance .. And if the Alert System is working properly, and you didn’t play around with pears, but taught materiel, then you’ll find a way to get out .. These are not books - this is experience!

    - It already depends on the rocket: yes Guaranteedcalled in the west no escape zone, when launched at which the target will not be able to leave even at maximum overload at a given altitude. (We did not work a little with you at the Yeisk school ... wink ). Here is a diagram of AIM-120C or C5 (clearly not new). This range is roughly calculated as 0.35 * D max.:

  37. Outsider
    Outsider 11 November 2020 20: 12 New
    0
    Quote: SovAr238A
    Did you know that only 20% of pilots of the highest qualification of aircraft of the 4th generation. able to fly 5th generation aircraft?
    Did not know? Know!

    - This is a very funny nonsense of a complete layman: Be aware that the F-22 and F-35 are much easier to fly (and fight) than the F-16 and F-15. The first two are automated to the limit, there are not even sparks! laughing The Americans made an experiment: they took four lieutenants, more intelligently, of course, with a ridiculous flight of 400 hours and quickly transferred them to the F-22. And the guys did a great job! And then all that remains is to study, study and study again, gain experience ...
    And for the future, just ponder this. hell knows what the difference is and why it can be so ...

    “You were talking nonsense, dear comrade. It happens... smile
  38. Outsider
    Outsider 11 November 2020 20: 24 New
    0
    Quote: Victor Sergeev
    If the target maneuvers around 9G, for example makes a cobra

    - For your information: overload when performing "cobra" 3.5-4 units, maximum.
    or pulls the speed to 0, due to IWT

    - If in BVB lost speed to zero - count. you are dead.
    the rocket has several problems at once: disruption of speed guidance

    - If the ARGSN shitty - then yes. If the thermal imaging seeker - then do not care at all.
    secondly, the overload of the rocket should be much greater than the target overload

    - This is always the case. :)
    Who blurted out about 60G? Actually, according to various sources, from 10 to 35

    - Generally, for "dummies": maximum operational overload:
    - AIM-120 - 40 units;
    - AIM-132 - 50 units;
    - AIM-9X - 60 units;
    - Python-4, -5 - 70 units;
    - A-Darter - up to 100 units;
    ... but 35 is more likely during acceleration, otherwise the rocket will stupidly fall apart.

    - What does overclocking and "city bath" have to do with it ?! We are talking exclusively about transverse overload along the OY and OZ axes, but not OX!
    "About how many wonderful discoveries the spirit of enlightenment is preparing for us! .." laughing lol
  39. Outsider
    Outsider 11 November 2020 20: 29 New
    0
    Quote: SovAr238A
    Electronic warfare works in battles on aircraft of different generations.

    - It's right. But on the F-22 and F-35 there are no electronic warfare stations. Still. Unmasking, padlucks ... laughing
    Electronic warfare in aircraft of the same generation is approximately the same.

    - Electronic warfare stations on airplanes of different countries are drop dead different in efficiency!
    Therefore, the forces of electronic warfare can be neglected if the planes really differ in generations.

    - DO NOT! If you want to ...
    Svehmanervnost is complete nonsense, because it does not work at high speeds in principle.
    But only at speeds up to 600 km / h.

    - But this is the holy truth. But UHT is also useful at supersonic sometimes ...
    Pilot overloads do not allow aircraft to overload over 9G, which is two to three times lower than the maneuverable overloads of the UR-VV BD missiles.

    - Medical fact ...
    And the rest. if there is a brain, then analyze and think with your head.

    - It so happens that there is a good brain - but there is no necessary knowledge and therefore correct ideas are not developed. And if you consider the nightmarish ocean of misinformation and all kinds of nonsense! ..
  40. Outsider
    Outsider 11 November 2020 20: 31 New
    0
    Quote: Operator
    ... EPR at the level of 0,1 sq. M. Only the F-117 special aircraft has due to the faceted airframe and honeycomb structure, which is not even close to the F-22. Therefore, the RCS of the F-22 can be estimated not less than 0,2 sq.m.

    - Frontal EPR F-22 ~ 0.0001 mXNUMX, the F-35 has even less! wink
  41. Outsider
    Outsider 11 November 2020 20: 45 New
    0
    Quote: 3danimal
    Super Hornet has a similar solution. The engines are located closer to the center than the air intakes and slightly higher. As a result, the blades are only partially visible (through the radial gratings).

    - On Super Hornet no shoulder blades are visible, there is a radar blocker. Therefore, the speed is not more than 1800 km / h. These are not compressor blades, this is a radar blocker rigidly fixed in front of the engine entrance. Apart from it, it is not part of the engine. With fixed blades (can be made of carbon fiber reinforced plastics):


  42. Outsider
    Outsider 11 November 2020 20: 53 New
    0
    Quote: Victor Sergeev
    Did you come up with the 60s and 40s yourself or did you get the instructions for the rocket? Can you tell me what the rocket does at the start from an airplane with an overload of 60G?

    - Accelerates. Fast, fast! wink But the rocket engine works in this mode for 2-3 seconds. Then either - it finishes working and further the rocket is driven only by inertia, or - there is a cruise mode, with low thrust.
    A significant part of modern medium and long-range missiles are launched from a carrier with less longitudinal overloads, but their engines operate in the starting mode much longer. This increases the total range.
  43. Outsider
    Outsider 11 November 2020 20: 56 New
    0
    Quote: Karen Khoreev
    I will reveal a military secret) A combat unit in the Air Force and the Aerospace Forces has always been, is and will not be an airplane, but a pilot !!! And it is the pilot's level that will ultimately determine the winner.

    “No stupid fables that were relevant in the Korean War. Today everything is absolutely different. The materiel came out on top. And tomorrow fighter-UAVs will appear, they are on the way, already embodied in metal and plastic.
    NOT A FAIRY TALE ... You are just behind the times.