Military Review

"Orion" will become an attack drone, confident in the West

183

The conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh has revealed, in the opinion of many experts, the advantages of using attack drones of the MALE type, that is, of medium proportionality, to which the well-known Turkish UAV "Bayraktar TB2" belongs. Against this background, voices about the absence of a similar system of defeat in Russia are increasingly heard. However, not everything is so simple.


Means of destruction "Orion"


In this category of drones in the armed forces of the Russian Federation, there is only Orion, which began to be developed in 2011 and went to the troops in April 2020 for trial operation. By the end of the year, he should receive the letter O1, which allows him to start mass production. However, as the developer himself positions, the Kronstadt group, their creation, Orion, is an intelligence UAV.

But the West does not agree with this.

The Orion drone is supposed to become the workhorse of the Russian Aerospace Forces in its category [...] The question everyone is asking is whether it will have an impact ability? And yes, Orion will be an aerial platform for, among other things, a ground attack. It remains only to find out when he can be in service with the Russian Aerospace Forces
- the famous Spanish blogger Charly015 is sure.

He bases his conclusions on insider information, which was repeatedly at the disposal of the Russian media, and photographs showing the UAV's weapons:


Source: Charly015


Charly015 believes that the ammunition mounted on the drone may be a weapon (apparently weighing up to 50 kg), which has already been demonstrated at the Army-2017 forum:


Source: missiles2go.ru


At the same time, according to the blogger, Orion can also be equipped with guided projectiles, for example, an ammunition weighing 2018 kg presented at the Army-50 forum:

"Orion" will become an attack drone, confident in the West

Source: milinfolive


What to equip Orion with other than weapons?


As previously reported by the developer, when entering large-scale production, it is planned to produce up to seven Orion complexes per year. Each of them includes a command post and from three to six Orion UAVs.

It can be noted that although "Orion", like Bayraktar TB2, belongs to the MALE class, it significantly surpasses its Turkish "partner" in size and a number of performance characteristics.


Source: Kronstadt Group


According to Baykar Makina, which manufactures TB2, the drone weighs 650 kg (that is, half as much), the maximum payload weight is 150 kg (50 kg less).


Source: Baykar Makina


For our part, we note: in the end, it can be assumed that Orion, along with strike weapons, will theoretically be able to carry powerful reconnaissance systems, which will allow it to operate quite autonomously, and not as part of combined UAV groups with different functions. Apparently, at present, the emphasis is placed on working out precisely the reconnaissance capabilities of the Orion, therefore, its strike potential has not yet been openly discussed.
183 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 4 November 2020 12: 45
    34
    It can be noted that although "Orion", like Bayraktar TB2, belongs to the MALE class, it significantly surpasses its Turkish "partner" in size and a number of performance characteristics
    we have a lot of modern technology that "significantly surpasses", there is only one problem - the troops do not have it, but yes, we are superior to everyone, and if we are lagging behind in something, then we are convincingly told that we do not need it
    1. Voyager
      Voyager 4 November 2020 12: 50
      11
      Quote: _Ugene_
      there is only one problem - the troops do not have it, and so yes, we surpass everyone, and if we are lagging behind in something, then we are convincingly told that we do not need it

      Measure 7 times, cut 1 time. So it is with orders. The budget is not rubber, but it is better to have plenty to choose from.
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 4 November 2020 12: 58
        10
        Quote: Voyager
        The budget is not rubber, but it is better to have plenty to choose from.

        The cost of 20 yachts of Russian oligarchs exceeds the cost of the Russian Navy.
        https://tagilcity.ru/news/society/20-10-2018/stoimost-20-yaht-rossiyskih-oligarhov-prevyshaet-stoimost-vmf-rossii
        Maybe it's time to finish with such things, so that the budget is enough, at least for the necessary things?
        1. Voyager
          Voyager 4 November 2020 13: 38
          -1
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Maybe it's time to finish with such things, so that the budget is enough, at least for the necessary things?

          Are you suggesting that I end this?
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 4 November 2020 14: 42
            -2
            Here's a quick hint about the shock version of Orion. The degree of readiness of a weapon in Russia can be easily calculated by whether it is offered for export or while it is an exhibition version.

            As soon as the product reaches a working condition, they immediately begin to sell it. It doesn't matter who. Let it be at least a probable enemy - no difference. Money doesn't smell. And since Orion is not being offered to anyone, we can safely say that this development is still crude and the gesheft on it can only be cut down on the hype (advertising) of the all-powerful Russian weapon from incorrigible jingoistic patriots, of whom there are a great many in Russia.
            1. Voyager
              Voyager 4 November 2020 15: 30
              20
              Well yes. But at the sight of development and advertising Orion-Eoriented to the international market, your hints and conclusions quickly stumble over your own logic. So you would be easier with your bold labels about patriots, not D'artagnan after all.
              1. Stas157
                Stas157 4 November 2020 15: 36
                -9
                Quote: Voyager
                at the sight of development and advertising Orion-Eoriented to the international market, your hints and conclusions quickly stumble over your own logic.

                Is Orion-E a drummer? Look closely, I specifically (for you) indicated:

                Quote: Stas157
                I will give a little hint on shock version of Orion.

                And the article did not even talk about Orion-E, because it was the shock capabilities that were discussed.
            2. lucul
              lucul 4 November 2020 19: 13
              0
              As soon as the product reaches a working condition, they immediately begin to sell it. It doesn't matter who. Let it be at least a probable enemy - no difference.

              And what's the point? Money in the country and so - even eat with a spoon. The bins are full.
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 4 November 2020 22: 27
                19
                Quote: lucul
                Money in the country and so - even eat with a spoon. The bins are full.

                Yes, indeed, the bins of friends of a friend are full to capacity, only the people from this shish with butter.
          2. Vadivak
            Vadivak 8 November 2020 18: 05
            0
            Quote: Voyager
            Are you suggesting that I end this?

            Just keep quiet. About the budget and all that
            1. Voyager
              Voyager 8 November 2020 19: 15
              0
              Close your mouth and be silent until you ask.
        2. Sergey Averchenkov
          Sergey Averchenkov 4 November 2020 19: 25
          +6
          So go and take these yachts away. Or do you think that someone will do it for you? I also sit and wait for life to get better ... by the way, I sit on my back. It's time to finish ... but let's get together? AND? I'm a bomber, you tough Walker - we will smear everyone! Or will we still sit on our backs? But what if? :)
        3. Pike
          Pike 4 November 2020 21: 45
          +5
          The cost of 20 yachts of Russian oligarchs exceeds the cost of the Russian Navy.

          Stop it, you know, on the day of national unity. As Peskov said, there are no oligarchs in Russia.
        4. ioan-e
          ioan-e 4 November 2020 22: 14
          +5
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Quote: Voyager
          The budget is not rubber, but it is better to have plenty to choose from.

          The cost of 20 yachts of Russian oligarchs exceeds the cost of the Russian Navy.
          https://tagilcity.ru/news/society/20-10-2018/stoimost-20-yaht-rossiyskih-oligarhov-prevyshaet-stoimost-vmf-rossii
          Maybe it's time to finish with such things, so that the budget is enough, at least for the necessary things?

          I completely agree with you, but only the oligarchs did not build yachts for budget money, but to take away and divide - we have already passed!
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 4 November 2020 22: 33
            +2
            Quote: ioan-e
            I completely agree with you, but only the oligarchs did not build yachts for budget money, but to take away and divide - we have already passed!

            Where did they get the money for the yachts? But weren't their assets obtained as a result of criminal privatization? Isn't it time to revise the results of this very privatization?
          2. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 4 November 2020 22: 35
            11
            Quote: ioan-e
            But only the oligarchs did not build yachts for budget money, but to take away and divide - we have already passed!

            The oligarch officials built their yachts and palaces, but money was stolen from the people.
            And I advocate taking away, that is, returning this money to the people in the form of new cities with the latest infrastructure, jobs, and new technologies.
            And the opigarkhochinovichny rabble is easy to take and after a couple of years to shoot to hell, before that, having taken them in barrels of shit in cages for wild animals across the country, so that every citizen who wants can freely spit in the face of a embezzler and a bloodsucker.
            1. ioan-e
              ioan-e 5 November 2020 23: 25
              +1
              Quote: Stroporez

              And the opigarkhochinovichny rabble is easy to take and after a couple of years to shoot to hell, before that, having taken them in barrels of shit in cages for wild animals across the country, so that every citizen who wants can freely spit in the face of a embezzler and a bloodsucker.

              Any problem, even the most difficult one, has a quick, simple and wrong solution! Congratulations, you've found it!
          3. cmax
            cmax 5 November 2020 08: 54
            0
            Quote: ioan-e
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            Quote: Voyager
            The budget is not rubber, but it is better to have plenty to choose from.

            The cost of 20 yachts of Russian oligarchs exceeds the cost of the Russian Navy.
            https://tagilcity.ru/news/society/20-10-2018/stoimost-20-yaht-rossiyskih-oligarhov-prevyshaet-stoimost-vmf-rossii
            Maybe it's time to finish with such things, so that the budget is enough, at least for the necessary things?

            I completely agree with you, but only the oligarchs did not build yachts for budget money, but to take away and divide - we have already passed!

            Can't we limit the Wishlist and increase their taxes?
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 5 November 2020 13: 30
              +1
              Quote: cmax
              Can't we limit the Wishlist and increase their taxes?

              Looks like "we can't". Who will raise taxes for himself?
        5. NEOZ
          NEOZ 5 November 2020 11: 44
          +1
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Maybe it's time to finish with such things, so that the budget is enough, at least for the necessary things?

          what does not suit you? rich people?
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 5 November 2020 12: 24
            0
            Quote: NEOZ
            what does not suit you? rich people?

            The presence of fraudsters in and around the government.
            1. NEOZ
              NEOZ 5 November 2020 12: 32
              0
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              The presence of fraudsters in and around the government.

              in any country there are swindlers in and around the government ..... you are from the utopian sect?
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 5 November 2020 12: 43
                0
                Quote: NEOZ
                in any country there are swindlers in and around the government ...

                Do you think that a government consisting of oligarchs who received their assets as a result of criminal privatization and officials affiliated with them is the norm for a welfare state?
                Quote: NEOZ
                are you from the utopian sect?

                Let's leave utopias to Thomas More.
                1. NEOZ
                  NEOZ 5 November 2020 12: 49
                  0
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  the norm for the welfare state?

                  give examples of independent countries where there are no fraudulent oligarchs in the power of the welfare state ...
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 5 November 2020 13: 10
                    +1
                    Quote: NEOZ
                    give examples of independent countries where there are no fraudulent oligarchs in the power of the welfare state ...

                    Start with China and Vietnam, Cuba and North Korea, I don’t touch.
                    1. waitknait
                      waitknait 5 November 2020 20: 13
                      0
                      China is the country leader in the number of oligarchs and officials of embezzlers. Moreover, according to the statistics of landing and shooting, the situation does not cope.
                2. NEOZ
                  NEOZ 5 November 2020 12: 51
                  0
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  power consisting of oligarchs who received their assets as a result of criminal privatization and officials affiliated with them

                  how else should they have received the assets? ... give examples of countries that have carried out privatization, the model of which you recommend.
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 5 November 2020 13: 12
                    +1
                    Quote: NEOZ
                    how else were they supposed to get the assets? ..

                    With your hands and your head.
                    Quote: NEOZ
                    Please provide examples of countries that have privatized, the model of which you recommend.

                    I do not recommend any model of "grabbing".
                    1. NEOZ
                      NEOZ 5 November 2020 13: 14
                      0
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      With your hands and your head.

                      so they did it !!!! bought the enterprises for vouchers !!!!!
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      I do not recommend any model of "grabbing".

                      then what should have been done in the transition from state ownership to private?
                      1. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 5 November 2020 13: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: NEOZ
                        then what should have been done in the transition from state ownership to private?

                        Not like in China.
                        Quote: NEOZ
                        so they did it !!!! bought the enterprises for vouchers !!!!!

                        This is called, at best, large-scale fraud, at worst, treason. So I am talking about the need to give a legal and moral and ethical assessment of the actions of the authorities of the USSR and the Russian Federation in the perestroika and post-perestroika periods. Or do you disagree with me?
                      2. NEOZ
                        NEOZ 5 November 2020 13: 34
                        0
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Not like in China.

                        By the way, what about the PRC? tell me.
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        So I'm talking about the need to give a legal and moral and ethical assessment of the actions of the authorities

                        but do you want to give a moral and ethical assessment of the Red Terror?
                        But do you want to give a moral and ethical assessment of the population of the late USSR?
                        ps
                        power in the USSR was a complete reflection of the wishes and aspirations of the people!
                        so there is nothing to blame on the mirror if you yourself are good ...
                      3. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 5 November 2020 13: 44
                        +1
                        Quote: NEOZ
                        but do you want to give a moral and ethical assessment of the Red Terror?

                        And what about the white terror? Or was it not there? Or was Wrangel called the black baron in vain? Or Kolchak is still remembered in vain in Siberia?
                        Quote: NEOZ
                        power in the USSR was a complete reflection of the wishes and aspirations of the people!

                        Everything is relative. The power in the Russian Federation cannot stand any comparison with the power of even the late USSR.
                        Quote: NEOZ
                        By the way, what about the PRC? tell me.

                        Can you see for yourself? A very large amount of information. If you are banned from Google, tell me, I will try to allocate time for your education.
                      4. NEOZ
                        NEOZ 5 November 2020 14: 10
                        +1
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        And what about the white terror? Or was it not there? Or was Wrangel called the black baron in vain? Or Kolchak is still remembered in vain in Siberia?

                        I want to draw your attention to the fact that there were Russians on both sides
                      5. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 7 November 2020 12: 09
                        -1
                        Quote: NEOZ
                        I want to draw your attention to the fact that there were Russians on both sides

                        How does this relate to the charge of the Red Terror?
                      6. NEOZ
                        NEOZ 10 November 2020 11: 32
                        0
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        How does this relate to the charge of the Red Terror?

                        but such that they are one and the same people! there are no bad reds and no good whites, and vice versa. and there are no separate civil servants and the people because civil servants are the people with all the advantages and disadvantages ...
                      7. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 10 November 2020 11: 40
                        -1
                        Quote: NEOZ
                        and there are no separate civil servants and the people because civil servants are the people with all the advantages and disadvantages ...

                        That is, you want to lead me to the idea that Putin, Chubais, Potanin and the Rotenbergs are the people?
                      8. NEOZ
                        NEOZ 10 November 2020 11: 56
                        0
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        That is, you want to lead me to the idea that Putin, Chubais, Potanin and the Rotenbergs are the people?

                        of course!
                        just look at their parents - all of the people! teachers / doctors / engineers studied in ordinary (unlike Western leaders) schools and institutes, with ordinary people ... respectively, and the upbringing of these people is like everyone else's FOLK ...
                        by the way, I think this is bad ...
                      9. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 10 November 2020 18: 06
                        -1
                        Quote: NEOZ
                        of course!

                        Maybe you remember the old Soviet cartoon about "Malchish-Kibalchish"? There the same two parts of one people are shown. You will have to choose which side you are on. I'm afraid that the day is not far away when we all will have difficult choices.
            2. NEOZ
              NEOZ 5 November 2020 14: 12
              +1
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Everything is relative. The power in the Russian Federation cannot stand any comparison with the power of even the late USSR.

              Well, you know that all the power of the Russian Federation comes from the power of the late USSR, right?
            3. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 7 November 2020 12: 17
              -1
              Quote: NEOZ
              Well, you know that all the power of the Russian Federation comes from the power of the late USSR, right?

              Vlasov and tonka machine gunner are the same immigrants from the USSR, but how does this compare with the comparison of the state of the USSR and the state of the Russian Federation?
          2. NEOZ
            NEOZ 5 November 2020 14: 39
            +1
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            Can you see for yourself?

            what I know about the economy of the PRC does not impress me ... and absolutely !!!
            and by the way, how do you like the mayor of Ganzhou City Zhang Qi?
            and yes, please remind me, from what year do they pay pensions in the PRC?

            I would like to hear your assessment of the PRC economy.
          3. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 7 November 2020 12: 25
            -1
            Quote: NEOZ
            what I know about the economy of the PRC does not impress me ... and absolutely !!!

            China's GDP has grown 30 times over 15 years, but how many times (more precisely, how much) did the Russian GDP increase?
          4. NEOZ
            NEOZ 10 November 2020 11: 38
            0
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            How many times (more precisely, how much) did the Russian GDP increase?

            GDP of the Russian Federation in 1991 -8010 $ ..... in 2018 -27147 $ (growth of 239% over 28 years)
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            China's GDP grew 30 times in 15 years

            if you have studied the economy of the PRC, you should know why such growth occurred !!!
            you know?
  • Vadivak
    Vadivak 8 November 2020 18: 11
    0
    Quote: NEOZ
    in any country there are swindlers in and around the government

    But Serdyukov was only with us.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 5 November 2020 19: 42
    0
    Quote: aleksejkabanets
    The cost of 20 yachts of Russian oligarchs exceeds the cost of the Russian Navy. Maybe it's time to finish with such things, so that the budget is enough, at least for the necessary things?
    Is it like jailing and confiscating all the oligarchs? On the bunk? Or immediately on the count?
  • Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 5 November 2020 21: 18
    -2
    but you can, for example, sell citizens' cars or, say, take away smartphones ...)
  • loki565
    loki565 4 November 2020 14: 02
    22
    The future is not for super sophisticated UAVs, the price of which is comparable to an aircraft, but for a large number of cheap drones, some of which can be disposable, like a guided missile. It is desirable that there is no connection to the airfield, but of the MLRS type, in order to launch a large number of UAVs in a short period of time, to break through the air defense, suppress the enemy offensive, or destroy the infrastructure and equipment of the enemy in a certain area.
    1. Voyager
      Voyager 4 November 2020 15: 33
      10
      The future is behind both. These are not mutually exclusive classes.
    2. lucul
      lucul 4 November 2020 19: 21
      11
      The future is not for super sophisticated UAVs, the price of which is comparable to an aircraft, but for a large number of cheap drones, some of which can be disposable, like a guided missile.

      The whole problem in Russia is a small selection of target designation options. And Orion is here like a breath of fresh air.
      I do not understand Western logic. Why do we need a short-range strike UAV (up to 300 km) ???? Do we lack other (cheaper) means of delivering explosives to a distance of 300 km? ))))
      We need Orion 100% as a target designation capability for our MLRS / ACS. Especially if we increase the accuracy of our MLRS missiles. It is in this direction - increasing the accuracy of MLRS / ACS - and we need to work.
      1. loki565
        loki565 4 November 2020 23: 06
        +3
        Do we have many delivery systems for 300 km? even 100km? The work of UAV + art is possible only for stationary objects. Impact UAV immediately detects and hits the target, even in motion.
      2. Shopping Mall
        Shopping Mall 6 November 2020 09: 04
        0
        Quote: lucul
        The future is not for super sophisticated UAVs, the price of which is comparable to an aircraft, but for a large number of cheap drones, some of which can be disposable, like a guided missile.

        The whole problem in Russia is a small selection of target designation options. And Orion is here like a breath of fresh air.
        I do not understand Western logic. Why do we need a short-range strike UAV (up to 300 km) ???? Do we lack other (cheaper) means of delivering explosives to a distance of 300 km? ))))
        We need Orion 100% as a target designation capability for our MLRS / ACS. Especially if we increase the accuracy of our MLRS missiles. It is in this direction - increasing the accuracy of MLRS / ACS - and we need to work.


        The fact that flies 100-200-300 km is by no means cheap, look at the cost of rockets for the Tornado, even unguided ones. The advantage of attack UAVs is that it can launch relatively cheap ATGMs or UABs from a distance of about 10-15 km, i.e. conventionally it is like a cruise missile, in which the most expensive part is reusable, and only warheads are fired.

        Orion is redundant for artillery and MLRS, a small UAV is enough for this, and where did you see MLRS and artillery at 300 km? For Iskander, for 500 km or more, a middle-class UAV can be useful, but for this it must be equipped with a satellite control system.

        Without a global satellite communications system capable of transmitting video in real time, the use of UAVs is severely limited - it's like tied hands and a blindfold.

        The only option for using a UAV without satellites is an air command post - you can somehow expand the range of use, but this is certainly a "crutch" in comparison with satellites.
    3. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 4 November 2020 22: 08
      0
      Quote: loki565
      It is desirable that there is no connection to the airfield, but of the MLRS type

      Lancet? not even tied to MLRS wink
  • NEXUS
    NEXUS 4 November 2020 16: 35
    -1
    Quote: Voyager
    Measure 7 times, cut 1 time.

    It is not so with us ... measure 7 years, and take another 7 years ... yeah ... this Orion has been mutilated for more than one year, although our army has had a need for a UAV since the days of Afgan ...
    1. K-36
      K-36 4 November 2020 18: 41
      14
      This Orion has been around for years
      Let me disagree with the term "we have been playing for more than one year." Even after the end of the 08.08.08 war, we did not have our own propeller-driven UAVs. And they set the task for the development. Only Dolzhenkov N.N. By the way, few people are aware that he (in the position of Chief Designer) led the development of the Yak-130 trainer. It was not even clear what, in fact, to start with. There was no engine, no aircraft carbon fiber, no control electronics. But they did (practically "from scratch"). yes
      Orion took off. The Ministry of Defense accepted one set for trial operation. But he set a condition: to eliminate the noted shortcomings before a large order. One of them is the engine. According to him, here's what infa:
      https://военное.рф/2020/%D0%91%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B08/
      I don’t know how it ended, I haven’t seen more information. But then hope flashed another piece of news on engine building for UAVs.
      Samara National Research University named after academician S. P. Korolev, together with PJSC "UEC-Kuznetsov", will create a line of promising energy-efficient aircraft engines https://news.rambler.ru/tech/44687692-kak-rossiya-planiruet-zameschat-zarubezhnye-aviatsionnye-dvigateli/?updated
      I think that by the end of this year, something with the engines will become clear. He pulled out Dolzhenkov Yak-130. And "Orion" will pull out, I hope.
      hi
      1. K-36
        K-36 4 November 2020 19: 16
        +2
        By the way, a couple of months ago I sent a message by e-mail to the address of "Kronstadt" (marked "For NN Dolzhenkov"). In it he asked Dolzhenkov to "ventilate" the idea of ​​creating an unmanned glider. The widest scope: 1) Border guards for flying around a section of the border; 2) the Ministry of Emergency Situations for search operations in the forest, in desert areas, in the Arctic; 3) Troops as a flying radar (or to deliver cargo). Well, etc., etc.
        As an example, he gave a link to such an already flying machine (though foreign). And then I recently came across a flying domestic. With a pilot, but how long will it take to replace him (the pilot) with Orion equipment, for example? The device is unique, called the AC-4 115.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbcwsZ3jGs4
        It can take off by itself, it is possible with the help of a winch. For me, such a UAV glider would be very useful. Both in the army and in civilian life.
        hi
      2. Saxahorse
        Saxahorse 4 November 2020 21: 49
        0
        Quote: K-36
        There was no engine, no aircraft carbon fiber, no control electronics. But they did (practically "from scratch").
        Orion took off.

        And that was how it ended, as usual. The engine was not and is not. Ten years ago, they talked about the localization of German engines of the RED series, such as Russian developers, wait, we'll postpone production. Nothing has been done in 10 years .. About two years ago they began to reinvent the wheel again .. And there, too, are copies of American-Austrian developments, which it is not yet clear how to localize and the main thing is no longer clear when and by whom ..

        In general, "start the tale over again" (c)
    2. Voyager
      Voyager 5 November 2020 18: 07
      0
      Well, how many years do you have to bother him, Andrey? The Turks developed the same Bayraktar for about 15 years with the participation of outside help. Israeli IAI Heron has been developing for over 10 years.
  • jovanni
    jovanni 4 November 2020 16: 36
    +4
    Quote: Voyager
    Quote: _Ugene_
    there is only one problem - the troops do not have it, and so yes, we surpass everyone, and if we are lagging behind in something, then we are convincingly told that we do not need it

    Measure 7 times, cut 1 time. So it is with orders. The budget is not rubber, but it is better to have plenty to choose from.

    Great proverb, very true. It just appeared, most likely, when they rode horses and loaded the rifles through the muzzle ... Now, while you measure seven times, they will cut everything off to you at the most. Can you already measure not so slowly, but just more precisely right away? ...
  • donavi49
    donavi49 4 November 2020 12: 51
    10
    Well, they just took TV2 as the most popular. And if you take the same Anka-S, in the same class, then they have parity.



    And you can also take WingLong, it is also for 1100 kg of takeoff and 200 kg of load + there is an option for a satellite in older models wink , and this creates new opportunities at once.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 4 November 2020 12: 58
      +3
      "Orion" will become an attack drone, confident in the West

      "Will"? After baptism of fire during tests in Syria, as a strike UAV, and the first batch of weapons was put into service, in the same, shock quality?
      All the more strange is such a fortune-telling of the West against the background of the obvious presence of a whole range of ammunition developed just for Orion in a shock version ...
      1. figwam
        figwam 4 November 2020 13: 04
        14
        Quote: Insurgent
        "Will"? After baptism of fire during trials in Syria

        Yes, he is a scout, a scout, let him continue the investigation)))




        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 4 November 2020 13: 10
          +9
          Quote: figvam
          Yes, he is a scout, a scout)))


          Yeah yes "Peace harvester"unmanned repeat

        2. flicker
          flicker 4 November 2020 13: 36
          +6
          Yes, he is a scout, a scout, let him continue the investigation)))
          As in the joke:
          ... yesterday a peaceful plowing Soviet tractor was fired upon, and they were destroyed by return fire from the tractor ...
        3. poquello
          poquello 4 November 2020 15: 08
          0
          Quote: figvam
          Yes, he is a scout, a scout, let him continue the investigation)))

          combat reconnaissance
      2. frruc
        frruc 4 November 2020 14: 10
        -1
        Charly015 believes that the ammunition mounted on the drone may be a means of destruction (most likely, weighing up to 50 kg) ..........

        And in the waste equivalent hi ?
  • Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 4 November 2020 13: 10
    +9
    The first set of Orion has already been handed over to the army. A new Sirius with a takeoff weight of 2 tons is being prepared for production, it is likely to be the workhorse of the future.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 4 November 2020 13: 51
      10
      Quote: Herman 4223
      A new Sirius with a take-off weight of 2 tons is being prepared for production, it is likely to be the workhorse of the future.

      Also, obviously, you need to "keep in mind" and the heavy turboprop, reconnaissance and shock "Altius-RU", "the smartest" of all Russian UAVs, due to the AI ​​elements used in it.
      It is assumed that as a weapon, the drone will be able to carry planning bombs "Grom-2" with a total mass of 598 kg (mass of a warhead 480 kg) and a launch range of 10-50 km or guided missiles "Grom-1" with a starting mass of 594 kg (mass of a warhead 315 kg) with a launch range of up to 120 km.





      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 4 November 2020 15: 11
        -3
        Soon it means that we can get ahead on the topic of drones.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 4 November 2020 16: 49
          -7
          Is it worth making a UAV of the level of the mid-late 80s of the last century and already leaders? Oh well
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 4 November 2020 16: 57
            -1
            Is it because you decided that? Oh well
  • senima56
    senima56 4 November 2020 16: 10
    0
    I absolutely agree with you! good
  • antivirus
    antivirus 4 November 2020 19: 22
    +2
    and aircraft carriers are not needed - they are harmful to the "stomach" of the government .... instead of them, it will "devour" the whole budget
  • fn34440
    fn34440 4 November 2020 12: 49
    -41 qualifying.
    "It can be noted that although Orion, like Bayraktar TB2, belongs to the MALE class, it significantly surpasses its Turkish" partner "in size and a number of performance characteristics." Is this really an advantage? And the timing of the series launch? When?
    Our partner Turkey is capable of producing heavy, shock drones on a par with the United States, Israel and partly China on its own element base. In addition, Turkey rivals the US and UK as the most active drone user in the world.
    The developers borrowed the basis for creating drones from the United States and Israel, buying old devices from them. Dismantled, looked, began to improve. And they began to create the most modern drones in 10-12 years, which by world standards is a very short time. The costs of this project paid off in full already in 2015, when the Turks demonstrated their most modern drone TB2. From a height of 4 km, he hit a target at a distance of 8 km using a Turkish-made guided missile.

    Modern Turkish UAVs are already capable of climbing to an altitude of 7,5 km and carrying a payload of up to 550 kg, the flight and hover time is up to 24 hours. The maximum missile strike distance is up to 2500 km !!!
    1. KCA
      KCA 4 November 2020 12: 55
      27
      Wow, how the Turks were ahead of everyone, an aircraft missile weighing less than 550 kg with a flight range of over 2000 km, usually such CDs in the region of two tons weigh
    2. Same lech
      Same lech 4 November 2020 12: 55
      15
      The maximum missile strike distance is up to 2500 km !!!

      Fill in !!! belay I do not believe.
      1. fn34440
        fn34440 4 November 2020 13: 00
        -41 qualifying.
        Yes, I fill it. Orion is a prehistoric spear from the Paliolithic era.
        The Turks have a Phoenix UAV. In January 2020, Ankara announced that it has created the world's first unmanned army, controlled as a single mechanism and subject to the "laws of the pack." If one "Phoenix" is shot down, then part of the pack attacks the offender, and the other ends the work started by the "lost". In fact, the Turks boast of artificial intelligence, which commands the "deadly swarm."

        It is also known that the ANKA UAV can fly 1488 km (passport data), and if a Turkish reconnaissance aircraft with a portable image processing system (TIES) and a remote video terminal (RVT) is located at a distance of 700 km, then Phoenix is ​​able to conduct a missile strike far from their boundaries. However, the Turks reported that they can control the drone with the help of a satellite, however, this option is considered "raw". Erdogan wanted to have such a machine to remotely and targetedly destroy the enemies of Turkey. As does the elder brother in NATO - the United States.
        I can still "pour".
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 4 November 2020 13: 03
          21
          I can still "pour".

          smile It is advisable to do this with references to sources ... otherwise, do you know one grandmother in the bazaar said that Erdogan is the deputy of the Lord God on our sinful Earth ... the second person, so to speak, after him.
          1. fn34440
            fn34440 4 November 2020 13: 06
            -37 qualifying.
            Give a joke on the Internet, otherwise "VO" will be offended. Yandex first page to help.
            All "drones" are equipped with silent electric motors, noise-immune control channels and a memory unit that can return the "drone" back in case of loss of control. You are behind in your child's scribe.
            Even golny Azerbaijan ALREADY produces hundreds of the latest silent, jam-resistant Orbiter-3 of its own production. The line of shock "drones" is presented based on the Orbiter-1K UAV under the designation Zerbe-1K (Zerbe - Udar), the Orbiter-2M UAV is also assembled in Azerbaijan. And the latest modification İti Qovan ("Drive like dogs"), which was launched into production less than a month ago.
            Azerbaijan also bought from Turkey and received at its disposal light attack UAVs Kargu-2, which are capable of operating in a group - "swarm".

            In addition to them, the Turkish-made Bayraktar tactical mid-altitude UAV is also in service with Azerbaijan, which has four suspension points under the wing and can carry up to four planning ammunition specially designed for Bayraktar with a laser targeting system, or the same number of guided missiles. It can stay in the air for up to 20 hours and rise to an altitude of over 7000 meters. This air army today inflicts heavy losses on the Armenian troops and gives the Azerbaijani troops that strategic advantage.
            1. Same lech
              Same lech 4 November 2020 13: 12
              18
              Even golny Azerbaijan ALREADY produces hundreds of the newest silent, jam-proof Orbiter-3

              Eck where Faina took you. smile
              There is so much rubbish on the Internet ... well, you can't believe everything that is poured out of information dumpsters ... eh Faina Faina ... and it started so beautifully.
              1. fn34440
                fn34440 4 November 2020 13: 21
                -26 qualifying.
                "Where did Faina take you?" Garbage of complete INFORMATION nihilism and lack of education in many heads.
                Unfortunately, the Russian army has no attack drones at the moment. Work on their creation is underway, and the Altair / Altius strike drone and the Hunter jet have already taken off, but it is not known when they will be fully operational. But obviously not this year, and it is possible that in a year or two they will not be in the troops. Or it will be, but in vanishingly small quantities.
                And with a naked aphedron, a Turkish, and even Ukrainian, hedgehog armed by all, you will not climb.
                We make masks, borders, tiles, we finish Moscow with construction sites ...
              2. fn34440
                fn34440 4 November 2020 13: 32
                -31 qualifying.
                You do not learn well, even information from the "Military Review".
                Let me remind you that even the Ukrainian company AVK Skaeton has developed an upgraded version of the unmanned aerial vehicle ACS-3 (Raybird-3) used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine for aerial reconnaissance. The upgraded modification of the ACS-3M received a new Japanese injection engine, improved software and the ability to install an additional payload - a small-sized synthetic aperture radar.




                The new engine is more economical and reliable than its predecessor. Thanks to him, the flight altitude increased from 3 thousand meters to 4,5 thousand. It also has automatic fuel trim for around 15 percent fuel savings. Aircraft with the new engine have already been delivered to the United Arab Emirates, one of the company's foreign customers.

                Autonomous flight mode - 2,5 thousand km, cruising speed - 120 km / h, flight duration - more than 24 hours. Range in direct control mode - 240 km.

                An equally important update in the modernized ACS-3M is a new "software". Its key advantage is its client-server architecture.
                2500 km of AUTONOMOUS flight. From Kiev to the Urals 1584 km.
                This is "garbage" from the Dear "VO"! Maybe look under the bed for trash.?
                1. Same lech
                  Same lech 4 November 2020 13: 45
                  +8
                  This is "garbage" from the Dear "VO"! Maybe look under the bed for trash.?

                  Of course I'm joking. smile otherwise I look you have already set their sights on the Urals ... look at the navel do not tear from the strain.
                  First take Moscow ... heh heh Kiev dreamers.
                  1. fn34440
                    fn34440 4 November 2020 13: 49
                    -23 qualifying.
                    Calling "Voennoye Obozreniye" - "Kiev dreamers" is the height of information dementia.
                    And Moscow was "taken", born in the maternity hospital № 1 named. Grauerman on the Arbat, my distant narrow-minded "friend".
                    1. Same lech
                      Same lech 4 November 2020 13: 58
                      13
                      Calling "Voennoye Obozreniye" - "Kiev dreamers" is the height of information dementia.
                      Well, trolling has gone into action ... you are trying in vain ... I've seen enough provocateurs like you on the Internet in my lifetime ... don't work ... I won't bite into your cheap show-offs, dear smile .
                      1. fn34440
                        fn34440 4 November 2020 14: 04
                        -22 qualifying.
                        ".. I will not fall for your cheap show-off, dear." Fu, damn it. Nice one. Do I need it? You zenki baldokha otshpyril, in your "bite".
                      2. Same lech
                        Same lech 4 November 2020 14: 05
                        +8
                        Well, you must have the same words that have appeared ... burn further ... I'll joke what your obscene vocabulary is.
                      3. Dart
                        Dart 4 November 2020 23: 57
                        0
                        Shukayemo, that soon we will be forgiven ... faina .. love wassat
          2. Eugene-Eugene
            4 November 2020 13: 17
            14
            Give a joke on the Internet, otherwise "VO" will be offended

            So open the Roketsan page and take a look at the Turkish missile range: 250+ and 150+ km
      2. -Dmitry-
        -Dmitry- 4 November 2020 13: 20
        14
        In January 2020, Ankara announced that it has created the world's first unmanned army, controlled as a single mechanism and subject to the "laws of the pack." If one "Phoenix" is shot down, then part of the pack attacks the offender, and the other ends the work started by the "lost". In fact, the Turks boast of artificial intelligence, which commands the "deadly swarm."


        How interesting ... Back in 1983, the P-700 "Granit" complex was adopted by the Navy. And here is an excerpt about the tactics of the P-700 missiles (well, if you don't know, although you don't seem to know):

        "When firing at a long range (more than 100-120 km), missiles rise to a height of about 14-17 thousand meters and perform most of the flight on it in order to reduce air resistance (and, accordingly, fuel consumption) and increase the target detection radius GOS [note 2]. Having detected a target, the missiles carry out identification, distribute targets among themselves and then descend to a height of 25 meters, hiding behind the radio horizon [4] from the carrier ship's radars, and then follow at low altitude with the homing system turned off, turning them on again only for precise guidance directly before the attack. The attack on the formation is organized in such a way that the defeat of secondary targets occurs only after the destruction of priority ones, and in such a way that one target is not attacked by more than the number of missiles necessary to defeat it. At the same time, anti-ship missiles use programmed tactical methods of evading fire from air defense equipment, and also use onboard electronic countermeasures."

        "Another feature of the P-700 is the" flock "attack, in which the missiles go to the target in a compact group low over the water. rocket "flock"). Near the aircraft carrier group "flock" includes homing heads, missiles rationally distribute targets and attack from different directions. "Granite" allows one hit to destroy a modern destroyer or cruiser, and in this case the rest of the salvo missiles will choose other targets. "
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 6 November 2020 00: 14
          0
          Has it ever been tested in practice?
          1. -Dmitry-
            -Dmitry- 6 November 2020 10: 28
            -1
            Has it ever been tested in practice?


            Thank God no. If they had checked, then hardly anyone would have written something here :) This is not just an anti-ship missile system, not some kind of "Harpoon", these are missiles for breaking through the air defense of AUGs. At single targets, volleys of 8 missiles are not fired. For this, Basalt or Termite is enough. Termite has been successfully used more than once, but these are outdated missiles.
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 6 November 2020 10: 45
              -1
              Testing in practice does not mean testing in war. Personally, I doubt that the "flock" would have worked at the speeds of Granites and with Soviet electronics of those years.
              1. -Dmitry-
                -Dmitry- 6 November 2020 18: 20
                -1
                All fighters, air defense missiles and air defense missiles (including melee missiles with a controlled thrust vector) of the USSR were built on the element base of the USSR. Nevertheless, "flying poles on lamps," as the US media ironically called them, the C-75s were shot down by progressive U-2s. And "tube" MiG-25s were generally unattainable for the United States until Belenko hijacked one MiG to Japan. Moreover, even after the States received the S-300 in the 90s, even after that they could not copy such a complex, because they could not understand the algorithms for the operation of such an element base. This suggests that the "flock" worked. Yes, there, the States still do not have supersonic serial anti-ship missiles in service with the Navy and the Marine Corps. The widely advertised Tomahawk is subsonic to everyone! Even the widespread Harpoon is subsonic. While in our country, even the P-80 Basalt, obsolete in the 500s, was supersonic.
                1. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 6 November 2020 18: 24
                  -1
                  All this says absolutely nothing about the efficiency of Granite's "flock" algorithms.

                  PS The MiG-25 is the most overrated of Soviet aircraft. A masterpiece, in a way, but completely useless.
                  1. -Dmitry-
                    -Dmitry- 6 November 2020 18: 32
                    -1
                    PS The MiG-25 is the most overrated of Soviet aircraft. A masterpiece, in a way, but completely useless.


                    Nevertheless, this "useless" aircraft prevented the flights of the Blackbirds over Soviet territory. For it was only the presence of the MiG-25P mass-produced hypersonic interceptors (450 produced) that stopped the States from allowing limited-production hypersonic reconnaissance aircraft to fly over the USSR. (Only 32 made) And this is an indisputable fact. Unlike your conjectures and guesses.

                    All this says absolutely nothing about the efficiency of Granite's "flock" algorithms.


                    Exactly as well as about their "ineffectiveness" or the effectiveness of the AUG air defense against Granites.
                    1. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 6 November 2020 18: 33
                      0
                      Quote: -Dmitry-
                      Nevertheless, this "useless" plane prevented the Blackbirds from flying over the territory of the USSR.


                      This is a legend. Not to mention that the MiG-25 was not intended to intercept "limited production" reconnaissance aircraft.

                      Quote: -Dmitry-
                      Exactly as well as about their "ineffectiveness" or the effectiveness of the AUG air defense against Granites.


                      Конечно.
                    2. -Dmitry-
                      -Dmitry- 6 November 2020 18: 40
                      -1
                      This is a legend. Not to mention that the MiG-25 was not intended to intercept "limited production" reconnaissance aircraft.


                      The MiG was not intended for this, but the SR-71 flights over the territory of the USSR were not precisely because of the hypersonic MiGs. And this is a historical fact. Sr-71 flew anywhere, but not over the USSR.

                      Конечно.

                      Ok, the drain is counted.
                    3. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 6 November 2020 18: 42
                      0
                      Quote: -Dmitry-
                      CP-71 flew anywhere, but not over the USSR.


                      Only the reason for this was not the MiG-25.

                      Quote: -Dmitry-
                      drain is counted.


                      Only one? You are humble.
                    4. -Dmitry-
                      -Dmitry- 6 November 2020 18: 46
                      -1
                      Only the reason for this was not the MiG-25.

                      What then? :) Name at least one reason why a hypersonic reconnaissance aircraft with a practical ceiling of 25 Km. Could be intercepted by conventional USSR air defense systems at that time ??? :)
                      The experience of using the same MiG-25R made it possible to conclude that conventional interceptors against a hypersonic aircraft do not mean anything. Simply because they cannot catch up with him.
                    5. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 6 November 2020 18: 53
                      0
                      Quote: -Dmitry-
                      hypersonic reconnaissance aircraft


                      It was not hypersonic. The characteristics of the S-200 were theoretically enough to intercept it, and the United States, naturally, was not eager to test this in practice.
                    6. -Dmitry-
                      -Dmitry- 6 November 2020 19: 04
                      -1
                      It was not hypersonic.

                      Well, let's say I got excited about calling them hypersonic, but the cruising speed of Mach 3 is not a trifle for your pockets. Of course, the MiG-25's speed of 3 M is not cruising and not even maximum, but nevertheless, it could intercept the SR-71.

                      The characteristics of the S-200 were theoretically enough to intercept it, and the United States, naturally, was not eager to test this in practice.

                      Well, that is, the element base of the missile complex of the 60s was enough to intercept the progressive supersonic expensive complex of the United States? :) Which was naturally made on a progressive element base, not like the USSR with its lamps :))))
                      And they did not risk testing it for strength - an ancient complex of the 60s of development :))) Was Granite really worse? :)
                    7. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 6 November 2020 19: 12
                      0
                      Quote: -Dmitry-
                      he could intercept CP-71


                      Look for the memories of the air defense officers who fought the SR-71.

                      Quote: -Dmitry-
                      Well, that is, the element base of the missile complex of the 60s was enough to intercept the progressive supersonic expensive complex of the United States? :)


                      What, did the S-200s operate in packs? No? Well, calm down already. The characteristics of the S-200 say absolutely nothing about the Granite flock.
                    8. -Dmitry-
                      -Dmitry- 6 November 2020 19: 35
                      -1
                      Look for the memories of the air defense officers who fought the SR-71.


                      Always amused "arguments" from the series, I gave you an argument, but you yourself look for it pliz :)))) Can you still bring them yourself? :)

                      What, did the S-200s operate in packs? No? Well, calm down already. The characteristics of the S-200 say absolutely nothing about the Granite flock.


                      Exactly as well as the characteristics of the air defense of the AUG do not speak of the possibility, even theoretical, of intercepting the missiles of the P-700 complex. But the air defense exercises of the Americans say very characteristic :)) for example, that the modern destroyer Aegis could not shoot down a ballistic missile (hypersonic target) with a SM-2 missile, an Oliver Perry-type frigate with SM-1 missiles, (and this is no longer an exercise, but very combat reality), could not intercept even the single subsonic Exocet anti-ship missile system. Moreover, the last example speaks just about the capabilities of the P-700, because this is just a ship of the Granite era.
                    9. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 6 November 2020 20: 05
                      0
                      Quote: -Dmitry-
                      Always amused "arguments" from the series, I gave you an argument, but you look for it yourself pliz


                      You did not understand. This is not an argument, but advice. You don't have to follow it.

                      Quote: -Dmitry-
                      Exactly as well as the characteristics of the air defense of the AUG do not speak of the possibility, even theoretical, of intercepting the missiles of the P-700 complex.


                      They say about the theoretical one.

                      Quote: -Dmitry-
                      But the air defense exercises of the Americans speak very characteristic


                      American air defense exercises speak only of the American air defense capabilities. But not about the possibilities of Granites.
                    10. -Dmitry-
                      -Dmitry- 6 November 2020 20: 08
                      -1
                      You did not understand. This is not an argument, but advice. You don't have to follow it.

                      But you brought it as an argument :) Strong! :)

                      They say about the theoretical one.


                      With what? :)))) That they can intercept single subsonic anti-ship missiles that do not interfere? :))) And supersonic solitary no? :) As if practice says that even single subsonic Anti-ship missiles, US ships of the late 80s, could not intercept. And with fright, they even began to shoot down civilian planes ...

                      American air defense exercises speak only of the American air defense capabilities. But not about the possibilities of Granites.


                      Well, maybe for you :)
                    11. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 6 November 2020 20: 38
                      0
                      Quote: -Dmitry-
                      But you brought it up as an argument :)


                      You did not understand.
      3. -Dmitry-
        -Dmitry- 6 November 2020 20: 01
        -1
        Only one? You are humble.


        Yes, I am like that, given that in fact you do not give any arguments on the subject, but are trying to transfer the conversation to another steppe, such as the S-200 complex and the confrontation between the MiG-25 and SR-71. Well, yes, I myself started talking about them, but at the same time, stirring up interest in this direction, you stubbornly compare them with the P-700, leading to the fact that they say they were not effective. And this is a direct sign of demagoguery. In addition, even direct "potential opponents" do not consider the P-700 complex to be ineffective. And this is very rare.
      4. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 6 November 2020 20: 09
        0
        If you look at how the conversation developed, then it was you who wanted to talk about the C-75, U-2, MiG-25 and other smile
      5. -Dmitry-
        -Dmitry- 6 November 2020 20: 16
        -1
        If you look at how the conversation developed, then it was you who wanted to talk about the C-75, U-2, MiG-25 and other

        Typical answer of a demagogue :) I answered you in general about the element bases of aircraft, air defense, BB missiles of that time, because you doubted exactly this (the element base of the P-700 complex), but you became attached to the MiG-25. Further, the dispute was developed in this direction. For example, in that answer I wrote about the S-300, about the fact that the staff did not understand the algorithm for the operation of the electronics of the complex, but you were not interested for some reason :) But this is no longer my fault. This is not to mention the fact that for the first time the PAR in a serial aircraft was used precisely in the backward Soviet MiG-31. Well, kagbe, what to expect from Soviet bast shoes ?!
      6. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 6 November 2020 20: 35
        0
        Quote: -Dmitry-
        Typical demagogue answer :)


        Do not bring the blame on the healthy.
      7. -Dmitry-
        -Dmitry- 6 November 2020 21: 00
        0
        Do not bring the blame on the healthy.


        I didn’t even try to do it :) You started it with your comment about the verification of performance characteristics of Granites. :) Any sane person understands that performance characteristics SUCH no one checks missiles in combat conditions ... It's all the same, what to say, but whether Satan's performance characteristics were checked in combat conditions ??? Rave.
      8. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 6 November 2020 21: 02
        0
        Quote: -Dmitry-
        Any sane person understands that no one will check the performance characteristics of SUCH missiles in combat conditions


        But they could be tested during exercises. On target shooting.
      9. -Dmitry-
        -Dmitry- 7 November 2020 06: 52
        0
        But they could be tested during exercises. On target shooting.

        Well, what do you think, during the state and military tests, they were not tested by shooting at targets ?? :)))
      10. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 7 November 2020 12: 15
        0
        I don’t know if they tested the flock regime by shooting or not. Therefore, I asked. And you said no.
      11. -Dmitry-
        -Dmitry- 7 November 2020 16: 26
        0
        I didn’t say no, I said that it wasn’t used in combat conditions. And during the state tests, the declared performance characteristics are checked. So the flocking regime was tested 99%.
      12. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 7 November 2020 17: 34
        0
        It means that you did not understand the question.
      13. -Dmitry-
        -Dmitry- 7 November 2020 18: 15
        0
        Probably.
  • frruc
    frruc 4 November 2020 14: 20
    +5
    ..... Turks boast of artificial intelligence, which commands the "deadly swarm".

    We also have artificial intelligence in the form of ICBMs with multiple warheads and a corresponding charge equivalent. Funny, huh?
    1. cmax
      cmax 5 November 2020 09: 16
      0
      Quote: frruc
      ..... Turks boast of artificial intelligence, which commands the "deadly swarm".

      We also have artificial intelligence in the form of ICBMs with multiple warheads and a corresponding charge equivalent. Funny, huh?

      It’s not funny to those who are now sitting in the trenches and feel like a target that cannot do anything in return.
  • Insurgent
    Insurgent 4 November 2020 13: 02
    +7
    Quote: fn34440
    And the timing of the series launch? When?

    YESTERDAY .
    "Orion" is already in the series and the first samples entered the army. Now the only question is obvious in the financing and interest of the Ministry of Defense in this UAV ...
    That is, the number of samples that the MO will require will obviously be clarified.
  • Eugene-Eugene
    4 November 2020 13: 07
    +9
    carry a payload of up to 550 kg, flight and hover time - up to 24 hours. The maximum missile strike distance is up to 2500 km !!!


    Eh, Faina, Faina ...
  • figwam
    figwam 4 November 2020 13: 10
    +6
    Quote: fn34440
    The maximum missile strike distance is up to 2500 km !!!

    Yeah...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Object.F7
    Object.F7 4 November 2020 14: 20
    +7
    "Strike with missiles at 2500 km" ... It is a very smart move - to send an expensive drone on a one-time trip for the sake of 50 kg of combat load. The author's competence is immediately striking, he does not even know the concept of "combat radius". Or is it such a well-thought-out thing to fill the Urals with expensive components?
  • lopvlad
    lopvlad 4 November 2020 14: 37
    +7
    Quote: fn34440
    Our partner Turkey is capable of producing heavy, shock drones on a par with the United States, Israel and partly China on its own element base.


    what is your own element base? in addition to the fact that there is a foreign Rotax 912 engine developed and produced in Austria on the Bayraktar TB2, there are also completely foreign positioning and guidance systems (which form the basis of any UAV) .So the only thing that can be Turkish in Bayraktar TB2 is a glider, although information slipped here too that some of the airframe components are supplied by other countries.
    1. fn34440
      fn34440 4 November 2020 14: 51
      -14 qualifying.
      From 2021 to 2030, Ukraine should supply Turkey with AI-450 turboprop engines for the Akıncı operational-strategic UAV and modernized AI-25 turbojets for a promising unmanned fighter.

      Ukraine to supply Turkey with over 500 engines for unmanned strike systems
      Akıncı is an operational-strategic reconnaissance and strike UAV. It has a wingspan of 20 m and a length of 12,3 m. The maximum take-off weight of the drone is 5500 kg. Akıncı has a maximum flight altitude of 40000 feet (12000 m) and an operating altitude of 30000 feet (9000 m), with a flight duration of over 24 hours. These high flight characteristics are ensured by AI-450T engines developed by Ivchenko-Progress State Enterprise from Zaporozhye. (Al Jazeera)
      1. fn34440
        fn34440 4 November 2020 14: 52
        -12 qualifying.
        After Akıncı, the next promising project for Baykar, as well as Ukrainian developers and manufacturers, is the creation of an unmanned strike fighter. An unmanned fighter plane with a maximum weight of up to 3,5 tons can climb to an altitude of more than 12 km and fly for up to 5 hours. Control - using satellite systems. Armament or payload mass up to 1 ton. The drone must destroy both ground and air targets. The speed of more than 900 km per hour should be ensured by the modified Ukrainian turbojet engines Al-25TLТ from the Ukrainian "Ivchenko-Progress". (Xin-Hua)
      2. lopvlad
        lopvlad 4 November 2020 14: 57
        11
        Quote: fn34440
        From 2021 to 2030, Ukraine should supply Turkey with AI-450 turboprop engines for the Akıncı operational-strategic UAV and modernized AI-25 turbojets for a promising unmanned fighter.


        only once again confirmed my words that the engines on the Bayraktar TB2 are foreign, and as for Ukraine, it is the height of optimism to hope for it in terms of deliveries in its current state.
        1. The comment was deleted.
      3. Boris ⁣ Shaver
        Boris ⁣ Shaver 4 November 2020 15: 41
        +6
        Quote: fn34440
        until 2030 Ukraine

        An outrageous planning horizon for this territory. You do not know whether the Poles will let you hunchback in their fields next spring, but you are thinking of such things for a decade ahead. It may be your friend roguel under the next glass of vodka, but in a decent society to carry such nonsense is quite bad form.
  • VOENOBOZ
    VOENOBOZ 4 November 2020 14: 39
    +3
    This is how long the rocket should be for 2500 km, 5 meters, and the weight?
  • Boris ⁣ Shaver
    Boris ⁣ Shaver 4 November 2020 15: 31
    +8
    Quote: fn34440
    Turkey is able to produce on its own element base

    Are you shamelessly lying or are you in good faith mistaken?
  • lucul
    lucul 4 November 2020 19: 11
    +4
    Our partner Turkey is capable of producing heavy, shock drones on a par with the United States, Israel and partly China on its own element base.

    Laugh.)))
    Engines, composites, guidance systems and other avionics are not Turkish))))
    Turkey is simply putting together a hodgepodge of components, taking advantage of access to NATO technology. As soon as NATO blocks their access, immediately the whole UAV program of Turkey sits in a puddle)))
  • OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 4 November 2020 12: 49
    -3
    According to Baykar Makina, which manufactures TB2, the drone weighs 650 kg (that is, half as much), the maximum payload weight is 50 kg (4 times less).

    If compared with Turkish UAVs, then you need to do this with the TAI Anka family:

    LTH
    Wingspan, m 17,5
    Length, m 8
    Weight, kg
    1600 kg
    200 kg payload
    Cruising speed, km / h: 200
    Range, km: 200
    Flight Duration, h: 24
    Practical ceiling: 9 km
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 4 November 2020 13: 10
      -1
      I think the third from the bottom is similar in size
      1. Orange bigg
        Orange bigg 4 November 2020 14: 45
        +1
        The analogue of Orion-RU is Anka-S.
        An analogue of the UAV Corsair is Bayraktar.
        The analogue of Altius-RU is Akinci.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 4 November 2020 15: 08
          -2
          Quote: OrangeBigg
          UAV Corsair is Bayraktar.

          Absolutely different classes of cars. Corsair takeoff weight 200 kg, TB2 650 kg, ceiling Corsair 5100 meters, TB2 8200, etc.
  • deniso
    deniso 4 November 2020 12: 56
    20
    Russia is the only country from the former USSR that is developing. The rest rolled down.
    1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich 4 November 2020 13: 45
      +9
      Quote: denis obuckov
      Russia is the only country from the former USSR that is developing. The rest rolled down.

      It's fun to watch how the minuses are put on you.
      It turns out that many people find it gratifying, joyful, pacifying and reassuring to consider modern Russia the darkest country. Where is the most backward technology, the most disadvantaged people and the most terrible power.
      I wonder what these thoughts inspire them? That in Russia, in fact, everything is even worse than they think? Is that the only way.
      And here's what's more funny. The overwhelming majority of them are convinced atheists, but they are absolutely sure that they live in hell.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 4 November 2020 15: 46
      +2
      Quote: denis obuckov
      Russia is the only country from the former USSR that is developing.

      It's just that the USSR was just one of the forms of organization of Russia. And the republics (with the exception of our primordial territories, like Ukraine) - both under the Empire, under the Union, and today - only dependent (to one degree or another) territories that we either drag or don’t drag.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 4 November 2020 16: 23
        +2
        "It was just the USSR and was just one of the forms" - Siphoning resources from Russia for the benefit of 14 republics and 120 rogue countries - without any return.
    3. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 5 November 2020 07: 19
      +1
      Azerbaijan is fully developing ... and without our help
  • Tugarin
    Tugarin 4 November 2020 12: 56
    24
    although "Orion", like Bayraktar TB2, belongs to the MALE class, it significantly surpasses its Turkish "partner" in size and a number of performance characteristics

    It is better to be armed with UAVs with different performance characteristics. Large dimensions are not always needed. I'm glad for Kronstadt - well done good
  • rocket757
    rocket757 4 November 2020 12: 59
    +8
    For mass production, a lot of things are needed, with which we still have problems! You cannot depend on imported components !!! What has already been convinced of everyone.
    1. Eugene-Eugene
      4 November 2020 13: 09
      +4
      Yes, there are problems with the motor. Here we shop with the Turks in the same office.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 4 November 2020 13: 17
        +3
        Motors are the heart of any such "birdie" .... although, there is a lot more needed, which has to be purchased on the side.
        Your industry must be raised to the proper level, both in quality and price!
        It is unlikely to aim at the world market, but we also need a lot of things, demand for many years, if the products are of the proper level in all respects.
      2. donavi49
        donavi49 4 November 2020 13: 26
        +2
        Not only with a motor wink ... There is also an interesting optical station.
        Surveillance-sighting gyro-stabilized optoelectronic system (MOES), developed by by the Moscow company NPK SPP on the Argos platform, supplied by the South African subsidiary of Airbus by DS Optronics.

        wink
        1. Eugene-Eugene
          4 November 2020 13: 29
          +9
          But such ECOs can laughing
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 4 November 2020 16: 25
          0
          I think Shvabe will cope with the creation of its own MOES in the future.
  • Alien From
    Alien From 4 November 2020 13: 03
    0
    The Armenians have learned by themselves.
  • Turanov
    Turanov 4 November 2020 13: 10
    -1
    Against this background, voices about the absence of a similar system of defeat in Russia are increasingly heard. However, not everything is so simple.

    Well, our "voices" are well-known and very loud .. To listen to them, it's better to give up and get down on your knees!
    But we don't want something in Russia bully So we invent all kinds of things.
    Whose UAV is better is worse, the question of a military conflict .. Let's check, for example, in Karabakh under certain conditions, of course. soldier But this is nonsense
  • Operator
    Operator 4 November 2020 13: 30
    -27 qualifying.
    "Orion" will not take off - for reconnaissance and strike UAVs with a take-off weight of ~ 1 ton, the propeller must be located in front and driven into rotation by a high-speed electric motor with a planetary gearbox and powered by an on-board gasoline / diesel generator.
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 4 November 2020 14: 34
      +8
      Quote: Operator
      Orion won't take off

      Oha, and in Syria "cartoons" flew))) wink
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 4 November 2020 16: 26
      +2
      Stop raving already.
  • yfast
    yfast 4 November 2020 13: 55
    0
    Quote: Insurgent

    "Orion" is already in the series and the first samples entered the army. Now the only question is obvious in the financing and interest of the Ministry of Defense in this UAV ...

    The question is in checking the combat capabilities of the counteraction. In Donbass or Syria?
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 4 November 2020 14: 35
      +2
      Quote: yfast
      The question is in checking the combat capabilities of the counteraction. In Donbass or Syria?

      I have already worked in Syria in full)
  • Nychego
    Nychego 4 November 2020 14: 07
    +1
    I have not seen data on the Orion image intensifier, and the visibility is very important for the UAV.
    Well, the "Standard Bearer" flies at least a kilometer higher, the same kilometer on which the "Wasp" does not reach it.
    The best test will be a real armed conflict: if the Orions WOULD turn the tide in, say, Libya, then there would be no need to sculpt advertising articles.
  • strelokmira
    strelokmira 4 November 2020 15: 06
    +1
    Interestingly, a sane amount will go into the series? Although if we buy electronics from the PRC and we can do it, the issue with the engine, but again from the same PRC
  • Andylw
    Andylw 4 November 2020 15: 36
    -3
    the bayraktar has a payload of 150 kg, and not 50, as indicated in the article.
    bug
  • Lesorub
    Lesorub 4 November 2020 16: 13
    +3
    Orion will become an attack drone

    It's high time (the percussion version is needed today - in sufficient quantities).
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 4 November 2020 16: 28
      0
      We are waiting for the Hunter's deliveries - these Bayraktars and other slow-moving analogs are not suitable for him in all respects.
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 4 November 2020 16: 53
        -9
        Quote: Vadim237
        We are waiting for the supply of the Hunter

        Project "Hunter" just cut the dough and look away. There will not be any hunter in the army, not 24 not 26, in 30 year. What we are shown is a flying model.
        1. Sanichsan
          Sanichsan 4 November 2020 22: 36
          +3
          Quote: OgnennyiKotik
          Project "Hunter" just cut the dough and look away. There will not be any hunter in the army, not 24 not 26, in 30 year. What we are shown is a flying model.

          nice to see your suffering yes
      2. Object.F7
        Object.F7 4 November 2020 20: 15
        +4
        Slightly different categories. These slugs support ground forces, like army aviation, for example. And the Hunter is a slave for the Su-57, the level is higher in the food chain. These slugs can be of interest to the fleet. If such Orions / Anki-s, or better Sirius, were taught to work from a frigate, to attach floats to them, or somehow tricky to catch with a net, oh, it would just be a bomb for the fleet, such a budget AWACS at minimum salaries. And in such a form as now, they can work from some remote islands, also an extremely useful thing when protecting bases, from afar to highlight low-flying CDs ... Slow-moving vehicles definitely have their own niche and perspective
  • bars1
    bars1 4 November 2020 17: 02
    -1
    Quote: Vadim237
    We are waiting for the Hunter's deliveries - these Bayraktars and other slow-moving analogs are not suitable for him in all respects.

    “The workhorse" will be Thunder anyway. "
    1. Lesorub
      Lesorub 4 November 2020 17: 46
      +6
      Quote: bars1
      Quote: Vadim237
      We are waiting for the Hunter's deliveries - these Bayraktars and other slow-moving analogs are not suitable for him in all respects.

      “The workhorse" will be Thunder anyway. "

      "Thunder" is a heavy UAV, we have a dire need for medium propeller driven (economical, with a long flight duration), both of them must be put into production.
      1. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 4 November 2020 22: 45
        +1
        Quote: Lesorub
        "Thunder" is a heavy UAV, we have a dire need for medium propeller

        hmmm ...
        B- heavy drone
        S-Su-25
        combat load:
        B- 500kg.
        C - normal 1400kg, maximum 4400kg.
        speed:
        B-350-300 km / h.
        С- 750-950km / h
        reservation:
        B- no.
        C - there is.

        is it really necessary? what
  • Old26
    Old26 4 November 2020 17: 30
    +4
    Quote: VOENOBOZ
    This is how long the rocket should be for 2500 km, 5 meters, and the weight?

    I think 6,5 meters and a ton weight of 2-2,5
  • yfast
    yfast 4 November 2020 18: 05
    +1
    Quote: Vadim237
    We are waiting for the Hunter's deliveries - these Bayraktars and other slow-moving analogs are not suitable for him in all respects.

    As they teach how to launch air-to-air missiles, so immediately there will be soles. One hangs for 12 hours with a radar, the other with a rocket. And it is not clear who will be the hunter.
  • win
    win 4 November 2020 18: 11
    +4
    Holiday greetings day of military intelligence, Colleagues!
  • Alexey from Perm
    Alexey from Perm 4 November 2020 20: 10
    0
    Large series of 7 cars per year? This is a joke, although no, this is the state of Putin's industry ...
    1. Kerensky
      Kerensky 4 November 2020 22: 41
      +3
      Large series of 7 cars per year? This is a joke, although no, this is the state of Putin's industry ...

      Из 7 sets. the set includes a control machine and 3-6 devices. That is, 21 - 42 apparatus and 7 control machines.
      1. andrew42
        andrew42 5 November 2020 21: 00
        0
        Obviously, the "size" of the series is scaled according to our real economy (that is, the real production capacity).
        1. Kerensky
          Kerensky 5 November 2020 21: 48
          0
          Obviously, the "size" of the series is scaled according to our real economy (that is, the real production capacity).

          Not at all. the "size" of the series is sufficient for debugging technical processes. Sufficient to teach proficiency. Over the course of a year, there will be thousands of wishes and hundreds of design changes.
          This is easier than driving 1.000 drones for upgrades later.
          When there is a "wagon of documentation and technical equipment", production can be located at various enterprises.
          1. andrew42
            andrew42 7 November 2020 14: 09
            +1
            I didn't want to whip up tragedy. Not at all. But such an amount as 7 sets is at least for one local theater of operations in order to somehow adequately assess the real effectiveness (not based on the use of one drone kit, but within the framework of assessing tactical use as such). It remains to be hoped that the declared "1 year" will not grow in reality in "five years." It’s necessary, no words.
  • Ovsigovets
    Ovsigovets 4 November 2020 22: 33
    +3
    Quote: aleksejkabanets
    Quote: Voyager
    The budget is not rubber, but it is better to have plenty to choose from.

    The cost of 20 yachts of Russian oligarchs exceeds the cost of the Russian Navy.
    https://tagilcity.ru/news/society/20-10-2018/stoimost-20-yaht-rossiyskih-oligarhov-prevyshaet-stoimost-vmf-rossii
    Maybe it's time to finish with such things, so that the budget is enough, at least for the necessary things?

    to take with "finish right away" you need a revolutionary path .... but well, this path to the hegs ... this is backward regression ... and the evolutionary path is long
  • Ovsigovets
    Ovsigovets 4 November 2020 22: 41
    +2
    Quote: fn34440
    "Where did Faina take you?" Garbage of complete INFORMATION nihilism and lack of education in many heads.
    Unfortunately, the Russian army has no attack drones at the moment. Work on their creation is underway, and the Altair / Altius strike drone and the Hunter jet have already taken off, but it is not known when they will be fully operational. But obviously not this year, and it is possible that in a year or two they will not be in the troops. Or it will be, but in vanishingly small quantities.
    And with a naked aphedron, a Turkish, and even Ukrainian, hedgehog armed by all, you will not climb.
    We make masks, borders, tiles, we finish Moscow with construction sites ...

    ehany babay ... finds himself in a big war (and there won't be another one with Turkey), the victory is for drones)))))) mdaaaaaaaa ....... Khrushchev's level of thinking .... everyone believes in some kind of panacea and magic
    1. andrew42
      andrew42 5 November 2020 21: 01
      0
      Not funny. Big war or small, but the cover of equipment and HP on the battlefield has not been canceled.
  • johnatan.kowalski
    johnatan.kowalski 5 November 2020 00: 46
    -2
    Well, thank God, at least they caught up with Turkey in 9 years, we would still have to start building a trampoline right now, otherwise the mask will roll us into space
  • Archivist Vasya
    Archivist Vasya 5 November 2020 10: 27
    +1
    TB2, the mass of the drone is 650 kg (that is, half as much), the maximum payload weight is 50 kg (4 times less).

    And that no one noticed the mistake that Bayraktar can take on board 150 kg, not 50 ???
  • Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)
    Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg) 5 November 2020 10: 49
    -1
    > famous Spanish blogger Charly015

    finally found news sources of the same authority scale
  • andrew42
    andrew42 5 November 2020 15: 52
    +1
    Attack drones are heavy and light, target designators - this is all good, of course. But the Karabakh fuss shows that security drones are required for ground-based BT units, for the same MLRS, artillery / self-propelled guns and tanks. We need patrol "terminators of drones" of the enemy, especially at the stage of the latter's work to find targets - moreover, the patrol should be aggregated into the control of a unit of ground combat equipment, at the level from a tank platoon to an OTRK battery.
  • MoscowTula
    MoscowTula 5 November 2020 18: 19
    0
    oops jigurda !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!
  • Ovsigovets
    Ovsigovets 6 November 2020 00: 58
    0
    Quote: andrew42
    Not funny. Big war or small, but the cover of equipment and HP on the battlefield has not been canceled.

    I agree ... there should be EVERYTHING that should be ... BUT these are not only drones ... they are certainly good, but they will not win a big war by themselves
  • Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 6 November 2020 11: 07
    0
    Let's hope that "Orion" will go into series without delay, it will become both shock and reconnaissance, one does not interfere with the other. Nui we are waiting for the Hunter UAV, which I hope will very well complement our VKS.