Military Review

"I have not seen any Buk air defense missile system from the militia": for the court in the Netherlands, the Russian accused in the MH17 case testified

99

It became known about the testimony given by the man named by the Dutch investigators "involved in the plane crash of the Boeing MH17". Recall that we are talking about an incident that occurred in the Donbas in July 2014. After several years of investigation, a group of "experts" from the Netherlands, without even bothering to carry out an elementary calculation of the fragments of the aircraft and showing part of the missile belonging to the Ukrainian military unit, named four "involved". Among them is Oleg Pulatov.


It became known that the citizen of Russia Oleg Pulatov, who is called one of the commanders of the militia, gave evidence for the Dutch court.

According to Oleg Pulatov, he cannot talk about who shot down the Malaysian Boeing. The accused by the Dutch prosecutors noted that the court should deal with the case - moreover, so that this work is independent and that no one exerts pressure on the judges and "does not play on the feelings of the relatives of the victims."

To date, he is the only defendant who has sent his lawyers to the Netherlands. Oleg Pulatov's defense provided evidence that at the time of the disaster he was engaged in economic affairs in Snizhne. It was noted that the client had no information that the militia “could have a Buk missile launcher.

From the materials of the defense and Pulatov himself:

I did not see any Buk air defense systems at the militia.

Pulatov himself added that he knew very well that the Ukrainian army had such air defense systems.

During the trial, the defendant was asked to comment on the recording of the negotiations, which dealt with the Buk missile launcher. According to Oleg Pulatov, these negotiations were conducted specially through open channels, by mobile phone, in order to mislead the enemy.

Oleg Pulatov:

The really important negotiations were conducted over secure communication channels.

During the first such court session, the Russian noted that he had not contacted any of the Russian officials and that the units he knew in the Donbas were formed exclusively from volunteers.

Oleg Pulatov noted that he decided to participate in the trial in connection with the fact that he wants to defend his innocence and get the court to declare his innocence in the plane crash with MH17.
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  1. newcomer
    newcomer 3 November 2020 18: 27 New
    20
    And to these ghouls: "At least ... in the eyes, they say God's dew." The direction of the "investigation" has already been set. Somewhere in the internet I read that the Dutch wanted secret agreements from the Russian Federation, that the Russian Federation confessed and repented, but with minimal losses. Thank God they sent the Dutch to hell.
    1. Clear
      Clear 3 November 2020 18: 38 New
      +3
      Quote: newbie
      Thank God they sent the Dutch to hell.

      Damn, he is also fair, he can send back ... am
      1. newcomer
        newcomer 3 November 2020 18: 40 New
        +4
        I don't know, I don't know wink .
        1. Clear
          Clear 3 November 2020 18: 47 New
          +8
          Quote: newbie
          I don't know, I don't know wink .

          And thank God!
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. newcomer
        newcomer 3 November 2020 20: 55 New
        +5
        This is called "total pressure on Russia in order to change its behavior." Such are they, Western devils.
        1. Turanov
          Turanov 3 November 2020 21: 21 New
          0
          Quote: newbie
          This is called "total pressure on Russia in order to change its behavior." Such are they, Western devils.

          This may last for a long time, until Potroshenko is surrendered .. And while Russia was appointed to blame for everything and it has already become a commonplace. In the course of the matter, it will all be classified simply, it is not beneficial to anyone.
          They wanted to do the same with the Korean Boeing (shot down during the Soviet era), but alas, it didn't work out.
          But the Tu-154 shot down by the Ukrainian air defense, they forgot about it, there was complete carelessness, etc. during the exercises .. Most likely it is, or maybe a special provocation to start the global persecution of Russia, etc.
          What, in principle, continues now hi
          1. newcomer
            newcomer 3 November 2020 22: 19 New
            +3
            Everything you said has a place to be.
          2. orionvitt
            orionvitt 4 November 2020 01: 11 New
            +1
            Quote: Turanov
            This may last for a long time until Potroshenko is handed over

            The most interesting thing is that then, from the "fairest" Dutch court, for many years of lies and filth, we will not wait even for an elementary apology to Russia.
  2. zwlad
    zwlad 3 November 2020 18: 29 New
    +5
    And who is this Oleg Pulatov. And with what fright did he become the accused?
    The impression is that they are trying to attract the Russian Federation through it.
    1. newcomer
      newcomer 3 November 2020 18: 35 New
      +5
      Well, the text shows who he is, and the defendants were appointed by the Dutch court.
    2. Clear
      Clear 3 November 2020 18: 36 New
      +8
      Quote: zwlad
      And who is this Oleg Pulatov. And with what fright did he become the accused?
      The impression is that they are trying to attract the Russian Federation through it.

      After five years of this trial, some other witness will be found.
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 3 November 2020 19: 27 New
        +6
        Quote: Clear
        Quote: zwlad
        And who is this Oleg Pulatov. And with what fright did he become the accused?
        The impression is that they are trying to attract the Russian Federation through it.

        After five years of this trial, some other witness will be found.

        Clear, well, everything will be classic!
        1. Observer2014
          Observer2014 3 November 2020 20: 12 New
          0
          Slavik, let's move you from the prosecutor's office to film criticism? good
          1. sabakina
            sabakina 3 November 2020 21: 25 New
            +4
            Quote: Observer2014
            Slavik, let's move you from the prosecutor's office to film criticism? good

            I'd love to not let you go. I'm working here for three. wink
  3. Avior
    Avior 3 November 2020 18: 36 New
    +2
    It was a video recording of the testimony
    ... “I never saw a Buk missile. At least, there was no Buk missile in my subordinate units, ”Pulatov said.

    On cross-examination, the prosecutors would have already grasped the streamlined wording and the absence of a direct statement that there was no Buk on the territory of the DPR.
    There is another important nuance - in fact, it was confirmed that the recordings of the negotiations of the militias with the mention of Buk are real, and not a fake of the SBU.
    1. newcomer
      newcomer 3 November 2020 18: 42 New
      +5
      So the person says that they talked to a specialist on open channels for disinformation.
      1. Avior
        Avior 3 November 2020 18: 47 New
        -1
        Correctly. But for six years I constantly read that this is a mounted fake, and for the first time I saw direct confirmation that such negotiations with the mention of Buk were real.

        Now the prosecution must lead some kind of open-channel negotiations, knowingly not containing disinformation, in order to prove that the open-channel negotiations were conducted not only for the purpose of disinformation.
        1. newcomer
          newcomer 3 November 2020 18: 52 New
          +8
          This is not the most "relish". So far, neither dispatchers' negotiations nor dispatchers themselves have been provided.
          1. Avior
            Avior 3 November 2020 18: 59 New
            +1
            Negotiations have long presented that
            ... Dnepropetrovsk: Malaysian one seven, Dnepropetrovsk tower, good afternoon, reception

            Malaysian one seven: Malaysian one seven

            The following is a fragment of telephone conversations:

            13:19:21 Dnepropetrovsk: Yes

            Rostov: Dnepropetrovsk, this is Rostov. Can you set the course for the Malaysian (liner) to Rostov to the point RND? We have three of them ..

            Dnepropetrovsk: Malaysian 17?

            Rostov: Yes, we will return them back to the TIKNA point.

            Dnepropetrovsk: Good

            Rostov: Thank you

            13:19:49. Dnipropetrovsk: Malaysian one seven, proceed to Romeo November Delta (RND)
            13:19:56. Malaysian one seven: ROMEO NOVEMBER DELT, Malaysian one seven

            13:20:00 Dnipropetrovsk: Malaysian one seven, after the RND point the expected direction TIKNA.

            Further messages from the Boeing crew do not come

            13:21:10. Dnepropetrovsk: Malaysian one seven, did you get the message? Malaysian one seven, Dnepropetrovsk tower.

            13:21:36 Dnepropetrovsk: Malaysian one seven, Dnepropetrovsk tower.

            13:22:02. Dnepropetrovsk: Malaysian one seven, Dnepropetrovsk tower.

            Dnepropetrovsk dispatcher contacts the Russian one by phone:

            13:22:05 Rostov: I am listening, this is Rostov

            Dnepropetrovsk: Rostov, do you see the response of the Malaysian (Boeing)?

            Rostov: No, it looks like the goal is diverging ..
            .......
            1. newcomer
              newcomer 3 November 2020 19: 07 New
              +6
              I apparently missed, lagged behind events. But again, interrogations of controllers, objective data on the situation in the sky within a plus / minus radius, and the defeat of the Boeing. Yes, and the topic of being shot down by an air_ air rocket is also relevant, even according to the first testimonies of eyewitnesses, two planes were observed.
              1. Avior
                Avior 3 November 2020 19: 12 New
                -1
                I think that everything that can really be related to the case will be announced one way or another, if not by the prosecution, then by the defense.
                For six years they have written a lot, but I don’t think they will talk about all this in court, the difference is to write something on the Internet and declare it officially in court.
                We will see ....
                1. newcomer
                  newcomer 3 November 2020 19: 17 New
                  +8
                  And it is possible to declare, it is very difficult to attach to the case; it is generally unrealistic to change, or rather to re-qualify, the case on the basis of the declared, but not attached_. After all, all the arguments of the Russian side were simply ignored. Hence the conclusion that the case and the court as a whole are biased and politicized.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 3 November 2020 19: 24 New
                    -2
                    There the question is more complicated
                    Formally, the charges were brought not to the Russian side, but to four accused persons.
                    There are lawyers for one of the accused, and quite expensive ones, by the way.
                    Before that, we saw what they wrote in the press, who wanted what, and now we will see how everything frivolous will be eliminated, neither the accusation nor the defense will be made public.
                    And if something is relevant to the case that the accusation will not be announced, I think the defense will not let this pass, they are paid money for it.
                    You need to watch what happens next.
                    hi
                    1. newcomer
                      newcomer 3 November 2020 19: 44 New
                      +5
                      I understand. At the initial stage, they wanted to blame the Russian state military, they could not, they went in a roundabout way. And these Western lawyers need to be tightly controlled. They, too, are the offspring of Western law. RF, as a state, does not dunk in the mud and does the right thing.
                      1. Avior
                        Avior 3 November 2020 19: 51 New
                        +1
                        To be honest, the law firm is too expensive for the accused to pay them personally. They were asked who pays, they said they did not know.
                      2. newcomer
                        newcomer 3 November 2020 20: 16 New
                        +4
                        I mean officially. RF was only in the consultation group.
                      3. Avior
                        Avior 3 November 2020 20: 18 New
                        -1
                        Officially, yes. And with lawyers, I think, they work closely in contact not only formally.
                      4. newcomer
                        newcomer 3 November 2020 20: 22 New
                        +3
                        Not a fact, and not necessarily. They can also through his wife / child, Ross. a lawyer.
                      5. newcomer
                        newcomer 3 November 2020 20: 41 New
                        +7
                        By the way, the Hague court decided to pass to the consideration of the arguments of the specialists from Almaz Antey and other data from the Russian Federation.
                  2. kig
                    kig 4 November 2020 04: 08 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Avior
                    the law firm is too expensive for the accused to pay them personally

                    This means that it is not Pulatov who pays. It's good that at least one of them has been hired by lawyers. But then everything he does and says must have the approval of those who pay.
              2. Maximilian37
                Maximilian37 3 November 2020 21: 17 New
                -1
                Quote: Avior
                There the question is more complicated
                Formally, the charges were brought not to the Russian side, but to four accused persons.
                ....


                After they are found guilty, Russia will have to extradite them, and this is where the whole corps de ballet begins.
                1. Avior
                  Avior 3 November 2020 22: 10 New
                  0
                  Russia does not extradite its citizens, like other countries of the world.
                  But do not forget, there may be other accused, they didn’t say that they were all guilty.
                2. Maximilian37
                  Maximilian37 7 November 2020 08: 34 New
                  0
                  [quote = Avior] Russia does not betray its citizens, like other countries of the world. [/ quote]

                  I know that, but will it save you from sanctions? This is just a great reason to apply them.

                  [/ quote] But do not forget, there may be other defendants, they didn’t say that they were all guilty. [/ quote]

                  I will not say for international law, but in Russia in 99.9% of cases, the case is referred to the court, after the suspects have been identified and 99.9% of them turn out to be criminals
    2. APASUS
      APASUS 3 November 2020 19: 09 New
      +5
      Quote: Avior
      Negotiations have long presented that
      ... Dnepropetrovsk: Malaysian one seven, Dnepropetrovsk tower, good afternoon, reception

      Malaysian one seven: Malaysian one seven

      The following is a fragment of telephone conversations:

      13:19:21 Dnepropetrovsk: Yes

      Rostov: Dnepropetrovsk, this is Rostov. Can you set the course for the Malaysian (liner) to Rostov to the point RND? We have three of them ..

      Dnepropetrovsk: Malaysian 17?

      Rostov: Yes, we will return them back to the TIKNA point.

      Dnepropetrovsk: Good

      Rostov: Thank you

      13:19:49. Dnipropetrovsk: Malaysian one seven, proceed to Romeo November Delta (RND)
      13:19:56. Malaysian one seven: ROMEO NOVEMBER DELT, Malaysian one seven

      13:20:00 Dnipropetrovsk: Malaysian one seven, after the RND point the expected direction TIKNA.

      Further messages from the Boeing crew do not come

      13:21:10. Dnepropetrovsk: Malaysian one seven, did you get the message? Malaysian one seven, Dnepropetrovsk tower.

      13:21:36 Dnepropetrovsk: Malaysian one seven, Dnepropetrovsk tower.

      13:22:02. Dnepropetrovsk: Malaysian one seven, Dnepropetrovsk tower.

      Dnepropetrovsk dispatcher contacts the Russian one by phone:

      13:22:05 Rostov: I am listening, this is Rostov

      Dnepropetrovsk: Rostov, do you see the response of the Malaysian (Boeing)?

      Rostov: No, it looks like the goal is diverging ..
      .......

      The civilian dispatcher could not say so:
      No, it looks like the goal is diverging ..
      , so a military man could say. I think a slapstick!
      1. Avior
        Avior 3 November 2020 19: 16 New
        +2
        This was said by the Rostov dispatcher, and this is not the end of negotiations, there is still a discussion of dispatchers
        1. APASUS
          APASUS 3 November 2020 19: 20 New
          +3
          Quote: Avior
          This was said by the Rostov dispatcher

          It is not important who said it. I doubt that there is such a term as goal in the slang of dispatchers. It would also be interesting to get an analysis of common terms and spoken information, there is one more place, but I'm not a dispatcher
          1. Avior
            Avior 3 November 2020 19: 33 New
            -1
            And what is your question then?
            If we are talking about the fact that the recording is fake, no, it is in Rostov too, they would have been caught long ago.
            If this phrase proved that on the Ukrainian side, instead of the civilian, for some reason, there was a military dispatcher, this could require an investigation, why? Was it because the military was leading the board to the point?
            But from the recording it is clear that the Rostov dispatcher said this, and he gave instructions on the route, and the Ukrainian simply repeated them for the crew.
            Even if it rises, how did you suspect that the Rostov dispatcher used the terminology of the military (this is just your opinion, let me remind you), what should this speak about? About the fact that for some reason there was a military man in Rostov? I just don't understand what you think is important from this phrase?
            1. APASUS
              APASUS 3 November 2020 19: 51 New
              10
              Quote: Avior
              And what is your question then?

              There are a couple of points, but I will repeat once again that I do not have the professional skills of an aviation dispatcher, but there is no one to answer the questions. Just for example:
              But from the recording it is clear that the Rostov dispatcher said this, and he gave instructions on the route, and the Ukrainian simply repeated them for the crew.

              The Rostov dispatcher was flying the plane over the zone of responsibility of another state? Why did he need it, was he paid one more salary in Ukraine? I understand that there is a certain sector where planes are transferred to the zone of responsibility of another state, but here the plane is driven by the Rostov tower. That there are a lot of ambiguities, in one small segment.
              1. Avior
                Avior 3 November 2020 20: 02 New
                -1
                There are points of entry from one ATC to another, the Rostov dispatcher transmitted that he would receive it at another point, not the one to which the board was originally going, and the Ukrainian dispatcher immediately gave the command to the board to change direction to the board's entry point indicated in Rostov.
                Well, if there is something else really dubious, I think we will hear at the trial, this is the case of lawyers, to pull out such things.
                Will watch.
              2. APASUS
                APASUS 3 November 2020 20: 06 New
                +3
                Quote: Avior
                Well, if there is something else really dubious, I think we will hear at the trial, this is the case of lawyers, to pull out such things.

                We will not hear. We have already been appointed guilty. How the case will go is not known, but the verdict of guilt has already been passed. The investigation is slowly leading to a final verdict, driving the facts.
              3. Avior
                Avior 3 November 2020 20: 10 New
                -1
                There are lawyers who are paid by the accused and who are admitted to the case file, and if what you write about really matters, they will not miss.
              4. APASUS
                APASUS 3 November 2020 20: 23 New
                +8
                Quote: Avior
                There are lawyers who are paid by the accused and who are admitted to the case file, and if what you write about really matters, they will not miss.

                How naive you are, well, forgive me for being straightforward
                There is an algorithm for the actions of the state, approved by ICAO, the IAC and a bunch of air traffic control organizations, which prescribes an algorithm for actions in the event of an aircraft accident over the country. And from the first minutes Ukraine is silent (accusations, of course, and other nonsense), but after all, it is prescribed who creates the commission, what actions the country's authorities do every minute. And for three days there was silence, then they decided to transfer this to the Netherlands (this is already nonsense, with the country's government working I'm not saying that they refused the services of a rocket manufacturer (the second nonsense, Georgia and Finland are taking missiles from third parties), about the fact that they did not collect all the parts that use the slapstick on the slapstick. They refuse access to the investigation, they will classify the witnesses, this is generally legal disaster. And this does not bother anyone, but you mean my dear lawyers ....................... who will let them find the truth in a sea of ​​lies!
              5. military_cat
                military_cat 3 November 2020 20: 40 New
                -2
                Quote: APASUS
                And it doesn't bother anyone

                Tell me, are you really embarrassed that the investigation was transferred to a country whose citizens were in the majority in the crashed plane (and what is directly permitted by ICAO rules)? I think you are biased.
              6. APASUS
                APASUS 3 November 2020 20: 48 New
                +6
                Quote: military_cat
                Tell me, are you really embarrassed that the investigation was transferred to a country whose citizens were in the majority in the crashed plane (and what is directly permitted by ICAO rules)? I think you are biased

                Only in the part concerning debriefing. If Ukraine may not follow the ICAO rules, then why should someone (from the investigators) strictly observe them?

                Small lies breeds big distrust
              7. military_cat
                military_cat 3 November 2020 21: 33 New
                -5
                What exactly was not following the ICAO rules?

                The rule according to which Ukraine could transfer the investigation to the Netherlands is here, in Appendix 13, paragraph 5.1:

                5.1 The State of Occurrence shall institute an investigation into the circumstances of the accident and be responsible for the conduct of the investigation, but it may delegate the whole or any part of the conducting of such investigation to another State by mutual arrangement and consent.

                https://www.emsa.europa.eu/retro/Docs/marine_casualties/annex_13.pdf
              8. Avior
                Avior 3 November 2020 22: 15 New
                -1
                What's the annex to the convention.
                Based on it, there is an ICAO-approved investigation manual, more detailed, in several official languages.
                Below I gave a link to the Russian version
              9. APASUS
                APASUS 4 November 2020 10: 18 New
                -1
                Quote: military_cat
                What exactly was not following the ICAO rules?

                The ICAO rules say what the state authorities are doing over the territory of which the accident occurred, from the moment when it became known about the accident (not a photo in the media, not a scandal on the world stage, but the arrival itself became known).
              10. military_cat
                military_cat 4 November 2020 10: 35 New
                0
                Okay, so what exactly hasn't been done according to the rules?
      2. Avior
        Avior 3 November 2020 21: 19 New
        -1
        I've been looking at the ICAO rules for a long time.
        They had the right to transfer the investigation to the Netherlands.
        As far as I know, ICAO has approved all of Ukraine's actions and has no complaints.
        In any case, now it does not make much sense to discuss it, since the trial is underway, and if these nuances mean something to the case, the lawyers will voice them in any case, no matter how the court reacted later.
        This is the direct task of lawyers in the process - to voice everything that may raise doubts.
      3. mikstepanenko
        mikstepanenko 3 November 2020 21: 20 New
        +5
        And silence for three days ...
        No silence, two weeks of intensified shelling by Ukrainian artillery of the crash site. Despite the fact that BEFORE this wasteland was not needed by anyone.
      4. Avior
        Avior 3 November 2020 21: 34 New
        -1
        These are the ICAO Investigation Rules.
        https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://aerohelp.ru/sysfiles/374_361.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjczMPd_ubsAhXrsosKHangC7QQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw0PVRyVjwhrfPpIjXpbYLfj&cshid=1604427926193
        ... Manual
        to investigate
        aviation accidents
        and incidents:
        policies and procedures

        Item 5.5.1.
        It is written that by agreement it is possible to transfer the investigation to another country or organization.
  4. Oleg1263
    Oleg1263 3 November 2020 20: 12 New
    +6
    It is quite possible that there will be evidence for this record. As with the recording of Bezler's talks about the downed plane. The most interesting thing is that back in 2014 it was known that it was about the downed SU, not the Boeing, but for some reason they brought this cheap piece of work as evidence ...
  5. Avior
    Avior 3 November 2020 21: 12 New
    -4
    Did you voice it at the trial?
    If so, you need to prove that the entry is wrong.
  6. Motorist
    Motorist 3 November 2020 21: 36 New
    +5
    Quote: Avior
    Did you voice it at the trial?

    Yes, they voiced what the SBU provided. And Bezler on Skype gave them a full conversation, and then he was immediately transferred to the witness. Shariy has a couple of recent videos about this - look if you're interested.
  7. Avior
    Avior 3 November 2020 22: 06 New
    0
    Bezler was not initially accused, he gave testimony, it means a witness.
  8. Motorist
    Motorist 3 November 2020 22: 29 New
    +5
    Quote: Avior
    Bezler was not initially accused

    Was a suspect. I found these videos especially for you, see them in order (1-2-3). Sorry that VK is banned on You-Pipe. hi

    1. https://vk.com/videos-72718092?z=video-72718092_456255210%2Fclub72718092%2Fpl_-72718092_-2
    2. https://vk.com/videos-72718092?z=video-72718092_456255898%2Fclub72718092%2Fpl_-72718092_-2
    3. https://vk.com/videos-72718092?z=video-72718092_456255928%2Fclub72718092%2Fpl_-72718092_-2
  9. Avior
    Avior 4 November 2020 07: 44 New
    +1
    There are no suspects at the trial, there are defendants.
    Bezler was not accused.
  10. Motorist
    Motorist 4 November 2020 00: 39 New
    +2
    I watched the videos myself: the Dutch demanded from the SBU a full recording after interrogating Bezler, which [SBU] had to provide her. That is, I made a mistake in the comment before last in the source of the recording, but this does not change the essence.

    PS Bellingcat got wet! good
  11. military_cat
    military_cat 3 November 2020 20: 02 New
    -2
    This is what the dispatcher said verbatim: "something began to fall apart label it"

    The text of Avior, apparently, was translated twice, first from Russian into English (or Dutch), and then back into Russian. The official text of the transcript was published in the official report of the DSB (Netherlands Security Council) in 2015:

    https://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/media/attachment/2018/7/10/77c9b856be08report_mh17_crash_appendices.pdf

    (page 38 ff)
  12. Avior
    Avior 3 November 2020 20: 16 New
    -2
    "No, his mark began to fall apart"
    Literally in the report and next to it, translation into English.
    Perhaps you are right, reverse translation.
    In the case materials, the original is all the same, and the lawyers will familiarize themselves with it or have already read it.
  13. not main
    not main 3 November 2020 22: 26 New
    +1
    What is it like? Hr. Do not carry!
  14. military_cat
    military_cat 3 November 2020 22: 44 New
    -2
    What exactly triggers such an emotional protest in you, sorry?
  15. not main
    not main 3 November 2020 23: 21 New
    +2
    Quote: military_cat
    This is what the dispatcher said literally: "something began to fall apart, its label"

    Idiocy initially! For there is a mark or not! There is a plane, there is a label! What a person can see is not subject to technology, and vice versa!
  16. military_cat
    military_cat 3 November 2020 23: 41 New
    -4
    Quote: non-primary
    Idiocy initially! For there is a mark or not!


    Playing the file further, we observe the dynamics of the destruction of the aircraft. The screen shows several marks from the primary locator. The track continues to be tracked, but the marks are chosen at random, so there is no sense in talking about the correct flight path here, since the marks are chosen largely randomly. Fragments of the aircraft will continue to be observed for a few more minutes..

    - a briefing by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on Russian radar data on September 26, 2016. Perhaps their statements can be trusted? The briefing was attended by an engineer from Almaz-Antey, developer of the Utyos-T radar
  17. Niel-le-Calais
    Niel-le-Calais 3 November 2020 21: 36 New
    0
    Quote: APASUS
    The Rostov dispatcher was flying the plane over the zone of responsibility of another state? Why did he need it, they paid extra one more salary in Ukraine

    in audio form with Dutch subtitles.
  • newcomer
    newcomer 3 November 2020 19: 20 New
    +4
    I guess you're right. I just didn’t want to draw a conclusion from some already debugged copy of these "negotiations". In any case, the exact data must be painstakingly investigated and disassembled by specialists.
  • Oleg1263
    Oleg1263 3 November 2020 19: 25 New
    +8
    Allow me. And what do these last 40 seconds of negotiations with the board prove (or not)? I would like to hear (read) the negotiations of the dispatchers who sent the plane into the combat zone ...
    1. Avior
      Avior 3 November 2020 19: 46 New
      -7
      So there the international route passed.
      The plane was going within the corridor.
      I heard that there are accusations that in general the plane was allowed into the combat zone, but this is not a question for the dispatcher, he was leading along the ordered route.
      I was wondering if there is a practice of banning flights automatically in a combat zone, no, there is no such practice.
      In Syria, for example, they fly.
      And before that there were many cases when they flew.
      The conversation proves that the Ukrainian dispatcher did not lead the plane to some point, otherwise he would not have given the command to the board to change the route upon request from Rostov. In reality, he did not have time to change it, but the very fact that the dispatcher, in principle, broadcast such a command, is indicative.
      1. poquello
        poquello 3 November 2020 23: 19 New
        +4
        On the day of the crash, Boeing was on flight, and then "miraculously changed the route of its flight."
        “And I, like anyone who had the opportunity to look at the indicator, observed it personally,” said Baturin.
        Then the tag disappeared from the radar. Shortly thereafter, a convoy of 6-7 trucks arrived at the command post. The servicemen said in conversations that they were redeploying the equipment of the 156th anti-aircraft missile regiment to the area of ​​the village of Zaroshchenskoye.


        Details: https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2354552.html
        Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to REGNUM.
        1. Avior
          Avior 4 November 2020 10: 16 New
          +2
          Everything is just like that.
          This Baturin confirmed the recording of the dispatchers' conversations.
          At the request of Rostov, the plane was given the command to change its course, after which it disappeared.
  • poquello
    poquello 3 November 2020 20: 32 New
    +3
    Quote: Avior
    There is another important nuance - in fact, it was confirmed that the recordings of the negotiations of the militias with the mention of Buk are real, and not a fake of the SBU.

    Am I missing something? and in what place?
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 3 November 2020 18: 41 New
    +4
    And how long will this vile parody of the trial last? The Dutch court has already become a household name, like the English scientists! !!
    1. newcomer
      newcomer 3 November 2020 18: 44 New
      +2
      Take it wider: the Western system of law.
      1. Rusticolus
        Rusticolus 3 November 2020 23: 34 New
        +4
        So it is, everything that will go against our desires does not matter and is not taken into account by our court. Gentlemen change the rules along the way, and are very unhappy when suddenly someone does not believe them in word.
  • Egoza
    Egoza 3 November 2020 18: 46 New
    +4
    Why did the judges not demand from Ukraine to present: the dispatcher who sent the plane "not there", the one who was supposed to close the sky over the LPNR, Residents who saw and heard this accident ...
    1. newcomer
      newcomer 3 November 2020 18: 54 New
      +3
      You see that specific questions and facts are stupidly ignored.
    2. novel66
      novel66 3 November 2020 18: 54 New
      +5
      and data from amerovsky satellites
    3. mikstepanenko
      mikstepanenko 3 November 2020 21: 25 New
      +2
      How is that not required? Because they would have given evidence to refute the pre-assigned version.
  • Gunther
    Gunther 3 November 2020 20: 38 New
    0
    "It's your fault that I want to eat." - classic.
    Enough to be sheep, make excuses, give some evidence, and to WHOM, some pygmies.
    it's time to simply send this Euroshelupon in plain text, especially since Lavrov already has experience angry
  • Igoresha
    Igoresha 3 November 2020 20: 45 New
    -6
    I saw the whole Internet, but he did not see
  • svoit
    svoit 3 November 2020 20: 50 New
    -1
    Quote: Avior
    I think that everything that can really be related to the case will be announced one way or another, if not by the prosecution, then by the defense.

    Unfortunately, the protection works pretty badly, for some reason there are still no records from Russian military radars, is it really the southern direction - this is one big hole?
    1. Avior
      Avior 3 November 2020 21: 37 New
      -1
      I think if specifically Dutch lawyers do not work well, they will be quickly replaced.
      Protection represents those materials that are beneficial to the protection side.
    2. Rusticolus
      Rusticolus 3 November 2020 23: 37 New
      +2
      Maybe because the Dutch court will not, under any circumstances, take note of them? They will simply say "highlikli fake" that they are the first time or something?
      1. Avior
        Avior 4 November 2020 07: 54 New
        +2
        Lawyers still have to make an attempt to join the case if the court refuses - this is one of the grounds for appeal.
  • denis obuckov
    denis obuckov 3 November 2020 20: 53 New
    +8
    In general, from the very beginning it was ridiculous to read all this nonsense about some Kursk air defense personnel across half the country riding a 1m separate BUK without a guidance cabin. A separate BUK cannot really hit the barn wall at close range, there the COMPLEX is deployed for shooting. Search radar, guidance and illumination radar and so on, there are many different machines you need to shoot down.
    And about a long-term investigation that found 4 civilians who are also to blame. Why isn't anyone bringing charges against the commander of the Kursk unit? The mythical BUK crew? What is the Ministry of Defense not accused in general, and Shoigu himself? And then some "accomplices" have been announced, and the Russian Federation itself is nothing but the stench of Izi about "ichtamnet". HAGUE! do you smoke there at home?
    The whole story is calculated on foreign walking pieces of wood. feed them any slops - they will ask for the current supplements.
  • svoit
    svoit 3 November 2020 21: 00 New
    -3
    Quote: Egoza
    who sent the plane "wrong",

    well, he simply did not know where to send, and the Rostov police department did not tell him anything that this corridor in Russia was completely closed from 0 o'clock of this day
    Quote: Egoza
    the one who should have completely closed the sky over the LPNR,

    So he is not out of spite, the investigation into the shooting down of An (at an altitude of 6500 m) has just begun
    Quote: Egoza
    Residents who saw and heard this accident ...

    But these may be, especially the one who took a picture of the rocket trail
  • Cossack 471
    Cossack 471 3 November 2020 22: 32 New
    +5
    Initially, ours behaved incorrectly in this muddy story. It was necessary to announce a reward to everyone who brings (brings) real evidence of the participation of the Ukrainian army in the downing of the plane For example, a million dollars would have met 20-25 million. This is much less than losses from sanctions. I think for these money would have brought more than physical evidence. but also the participants in the villainy. bound and gagged
  • Egor53
    Egor53 4 November 2020 00: 30 New
    +1
    Dutch justice is less effective than Mongolian electronics.
  • Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 4 November 2020 01: 01 New
    +4
    Quote: newbie
    This is called "total pressure on Russia in order to change its behavior." Such are they, Western devils.


    And an interesting thought: To declare to the "collective West" and Holland itself, as the chief prosecutor and investigator, that since the investigation has reached a dead end, Russia's guilt in the Boeing downing has not been proven. Accordingly, the sanctions against Russia were imposed without justification. Accordingly, the Western states that blamed Russia and imposed the sanctions, as well as the states that supported the sanctions, must reimburse Russia for all losses incurred, including the funds spent by Russia on the import substitution program.
    Perhaps such statements, backed up by some actions of our authorities, would have cooled the ardor of the "collective west" ...
    1. Mishanya74_2
      Mishanya74_2 4 November 2020 06: 26 New
      +2
      How did this *** investigation come to a standstill *** if the trial is already underway?
  • Kelwin
    Kelwin 4 November 2020 01: 56 New
    +1
    It's all muddy. I was engaged in some kind of economic affairs, what, where, xs. Why the hell and for what money are lawyers hired ... why he can know about some beeches and not know about others.
    Set it up, kmk.
  • kig
    kig 4 November 2020 04: 19 New
    +4
    I have not seen any Buk air defense systems from the militia

    Maybe he didn’t see any Beeches, quite possibly. Then what is it:


    The AN-26 was indeed shot down and indeed at a height inaccessible to MANPADS. And no one denies it.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 4 November 2020 08: 44 New
      -1
      Quote: kig
      The AN-26 was indeed shot down and indeed at a height inaccessible to MANPADS. And no one denies it.

      And what is there to deny it. When the Armed Forces of Ukraine said that the An-26 was shot down from the newest Russian MANPADS "Verba"! Even the debris from all the cracks was picked out and proved to the accuracy of a mulimeter that it was "Willow"!
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 4 November 2020 04: 48 New
    0
    The investigation into the crash of the Malaysian Boeing is so intense that one can only wonder how things are in the A321 crash over the Sinai Peninsula - a major plane crash that occurred on Saturday October 31, 2015 over the central part of the Sinai Peninsula, which became at the same time the largest plane crash in the history of Egypt and aircraft of the Airbus A320 family, the largest plane crash in 2015, as well as the most massive death of Russian citizens in a plane crash in the history of world aviation.
    And what is most striking is how the interests of the Russian Federation are exaggerated in an aspect that is disadvantageous to it. Everyone strives to hang all the dogs and jackals on her.
    I would like to ask: “Why are you doing this, gentlemen? Do you need blood money or are you looking for the truth? "
    1. Mishanya74_2
      Mishanya74_2 4 November 2020 07: 49 New
      +1
      What exactly surprises you in the investigation of the A321 crash?
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 4 November 2020 07: 54 New
        0
        Quote: Mishanya74_2
        What exactly surprises you in the investigation of the A321 crash?

        Egypt's responsibility ...
        1. Mishanya74_2
          Mishanya74_2 4 November 2020 10: 32 New
          0
          What is wrong with her?
  • NF68
    NF68 4 November 2020 17: 19 New
    -2
    Did you ask about the Buryat horse divers at the same time? In the Armed Forces of Ukraine, they were seen by whole herds.
  • Maximilian37
    Maximilian37 7 November 2020 08: 49 New
    0
    [quote = Avior] Russia does not betray its citizens, like other countries of the world. [/ quote]

    How will this affect the imposition of sanctions against Russia?

    [/ quote] But do not forget, there may be other defendants, they didn’t say that they were all guilty. [/ quote]

    In Russia, in 99.9% of cases, the case is referred to the court, when the preliminary investigation has identified those involved. How are they? I think the same!