Military Review

Turboprop combat aircraft as an alternative to UAVs for third world countries

151

Currently, the air forces of a number of countries operate light turboprop attack aircraft, which are primarily designed to intercept light aircraft, patrol borders, and fight all sorts of rebel movements and illegal armed groups. The desire to reduce the cost of development and operation has led to the fact that the bulk of the anti-guerrilla aircraft currently in use are based on two-seat training or even agricultural vehicles. In terms of combat effectiveness, such light attack aircraft are comparable or even superior (during anti-insurgency operations) to combat helicopters.


Turboprop attack aircraft demonstrate better combat survivability than rotary-wing aircraft. The indisputable fact is that a turboprop aircraft has a high flight speed, it is more difficult to get into it from a rapid-fire anti-aircraft gun, and it can leave the firing zone faster. The aircraft does not have such highly vulnerable elements as a tail boom with a tail rotor and a main rotor, which means that with an equal level of security, the aircraft will have better combat survivability. In most cases, due to design features, a light turboprop combat aircraft emits a lower thermal signature than a helicopter equipped with a propulsion system of similar power. This circumstance is directly related to the probability of being hit by missiles with a thermal homing head.

When choosing turboprop attack aircraft, many Third World countries were guided by the cost-effectiveness criterion. Although helicopters are capable of being based on "spots", and small aircraft require a runway several hundred meters long, the cost of one flight hour of a light combat aircraft with a turboprop engine is several times less than that of an attack helicopter capable of carrying the same combat load as more than pays for the costs of building field airfields. Duration and labor costs are of great importance in preparation for a repeated combat mission. In this regard, attack aircraft built on the basis of TCB or agricultural aircraft are unconditionally in the lead. Due to their higher fuel efficiency, turboprop aircraft are able to stay in the air for much longer and are better suited for reconnaissance, patrol and search and strike missions.

Comparing turboprop combat aircraft with jet attack aircraft, it can be noted that at a "working" speed of 500-600 km / h, in the absence of external target designation, there is often not enough time for visual target detection (taking into account the pilot's reaction). With a larger "payload", jet attack aircraft, created to combat armored vehicles and destroy fortified positions in a "big war", acting against all kinds of insurgents, often spend it irrationally. In this case, the analogy with a sledgehammer and a hammer is appropriate. With a certain skill, small nails can be driven in with a sledgehammer, but a hammer is much better for this.

Hopes that remotely piloted aircraft would supplant combat aircraft during counterguerrilla operations turned out to be untenable. UAVs (in the absence of a developed air defense system for the enemy) are perfect for observation, reconnaissance and targeted strikes. It is known that during sorties, the American MQ-1 Predator and MQ-9 Reaper, as a rule, carried no more than two AGM-114 Hellfire guided missiles. The increased ammunition load on board the drone seriously limited the flight duration. There are cases when, to destroy a "hard" target detected by an unmanned aerial vehicle operator, it was necessary to call manned combat aircraft or drones equipped with adjustable 227-kg GBU-12 Paveway II bombs. Due to the limited number of weapons on board, unlike a manned attack aircraft, the drone is physically unable to "press down" fire and hamper the actions of a large group of militants carrying out an attack on a checkpoint or base in a remote area. UAVs are more a means of reconnaissance and surveillance, and in terms of their strike potential during anti-insurgency operations, they cannot yet compare with manned aviation... In addition, any large serial drone equipped with aviation weapons, with all its merits, is seriously inferior to a turboprop attack aircraft in flight speed, vertical and horizontal maneuverability. In connection with the desire to make the drone as light as possible, its airframe has less strength, which is the reason for the UAV's inability to perform sharp anti-aircraft maneuvers. Combined with the camera's narrow field of view and significant response time to commands, this makes them very vulnerable to fire and susceptible to even minor damage.

However, the main difficulties in creating a truly effective reconnaissance and strike remotely controlled aircraft are mostly associated not with the airframe and propulsion system, but with the possibility of using advanced remote control and data transmission systems. For example, in Russia until now, a drone has not been adopted, which would have the same capabilities as the American "Reaper" or "Predator". It is known that the United States has a global control system for UAVs via satellite channels. The main direction of the actions of American unmanned hunters in any part of the world is carried out by operators located at Crich AFB in Nevada.

Turboprop combat aircraft as an alternative to UAVs for third world countries
UAV MQ-9A Reaper on the runway of Creech airbase

A similar Chinese facility is located at Anshun Air Base in Guizhou Province. The main control center of the RPV and the satellite communication station is located here.

The lack of satellite channels limits the combat range of unmanned combat aircraft, which forces the use of another RPV for relaying radio signals, or place antennas for control points on high masts and natural heights. In addition, the American authorities impose serious restrictions on the supply of combat drones and control systems, and even the closest allies of the United States cannot always acquire them, and much cheaper Chinese counterparts are still inferior to the products of General Atomics Aeronautical Systems. In these conditions and taking into account the shortcomings of RPVs, the command of the air forces of many small and not too rich states chooses, if not so high-tech, but much easier to use light turboprop combat aircraft.

As mentioned in the previous part of the review, during the combat use of widespread turboprop attack aircraft EMB-314 Super Tucano they were very often equipped with guided aircraft munitions, which can be used outside the effective range of anti-aircraft fire, thus avoiding losses.

This approach was implemented in the creation of the AC-208В Combat Caravan reconnaissance and attack aircraft, which was designed by Orbital ATK Inc. in 2009 based on the lightweight turboprop transport-passenger Cessna 208 Caravan. For observation and armed reconnaissance, the aircraft is equipped with the L3 Wescam MX-15D optoelectronic system, which includes: a high-resolution daytime color TV camera, a nighttime IR camera, a laser rangefinder-designator, color LCD displays and a computer complex for the weapons control system. Onboard there is also digital data transmission equipment to ground points and other aircraft connected to the combat control system, the AAR-47 / ALE-4 onboard jamming system, the AN / AAR-60 enemy missile launch warning system, radio stations and means navigation. Also provided is laser equipment, which in automatic mode is capable of dazzling the IR seeker of MANPADS missiles, but aircraft in this configuration were not transferred to the customer. The US government has allocated $ 65,3 million to purchase five AC-208Bs for the Iraqi Air Force. This amount also includes the cost of purchasing spare parts and training specialists.


AC-208В Combat Caravan Iraqi Air Force

The aircraft with a maximum take-off weight of 3629 kg is equipped with a Pratt & Whitney PT6A-114A turbofan with a capacity of 675 liters. from. The maximum flight speed is 352 km / h. Cruising -338 km / h. Ceiling - 8400 m. "Combat Caravan" is able to stay in the air for almost 7 hours. When performing standard search and strike missions, a pilot and an operator are usually on board. However, when using the AC-208B as a flying air command post, there are jobs for three more people on board.

The armament of the AC-208В consists of two AGM-114M / K Hellfire air-to-ground missiles with a firing range of up to 8 km. The Iraqi government is known to have ordered 500 Hellfire missiles.


It is possible to suspend blocks with 70-mm NAR, but this is not used in combat conditions. Also remained unrealized project "gunship" with a 30-mm cannon in the doorway.


The composition of the avionics and armament of the AC-208В Combat Caravan allows you to perform reconnaissance tasks, identify the enemy and track him, as well as strike at the detected targets. Crew workplaces are covered with ballistic panels to protect against small arms weapons.


Combat Caravan made its combat debut in January 2014 when the Iraqi Air Force began using it against insurgents in Anbar province. At the first stage, US Air Force specialists provided assistance in the operation of the AC-208B. One plane crashed in March 2016.


In March 2018, the US Air Force signed a contract worth $ 86,4 million. The contract provides for the supply of eight AC-208В Combat Caravan aircraft and spare parts, as well as the training of flight personnel. The aircraft are intended for the Afghan Air Corps. Afghan pilots were trained at Fort Worth, Texas. Also in 2018, Orbital ATK Inc. was acquired by Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems.

Currently, the AC-208D Eliminator (AC-208 Combat Caravan Block 2) aircraft has been created for the Afghan air force. This machine is equipped with a Honeywell TPE331-12JR 900 hp engine. from. and improved avionics. According to the information provided by the manufacturer, the price of one aircraft is $ 8 million, while the cost of a flight hour is $ 415. Which, of course, is very attractive for the third world countries. For comparison: the price of the popular A-29 Super Tucano turboprop attack aircraft is about $ 18 million, the cost of its flight hour is about $ 600.

As of mid-2020, Iraqi and Afghan AC-208B aircraft have spent several thousand hours in the air and delivered more than 200 missile strikes. Aviation experts note that these machines are a good alternative to drones during counter-terrorism operations. The combination of the ability to stay in the air for a long time and the altitude above the reach of fire from small-caliber anti-aircraft guns and MANPADS guarantee the possibility of long-term control of a vast territory and invulnerability from air defense weapons that may be at the disposal of illegal armed groups.


Aircraft AC-208В Combat Caravan UAE Air Force

In addition to Iraq and Afghanistan, the UAE and Lebanon became the customer of the AC-208B Combat Caravan. The UAE Air Force had two aircraft in 2019. According to available information, by 2022, it is planned to convert 4 general-purpose aircraft Cessna 208B Grand Caravan into a strike version for the Lebanese Air Force. Mali, Mauritania, Niger and Burkina Faso are consulting on the delivery of the Combat Caravan strike reconnaissance aircraft. Due to its relatively low cost and acceptable operating costs, this machine is very attractive for poor countries. However, in addition to purchasing aircraft, potential customers will have to negotiate with the Americans on the purchase of guided missiles, which significantly limits the number of potential buyers.

The demand for counterinsurgency aircraft has led to the development of lightweight turboprop attack aircraft based on the Air Tractor AT-802, which is used in agricultural and firefighting aircraft. This aircraft features a high-rise cockpit that provides good visibility, high maneuverability and good controllability at low altitudes.

In a combat situation, Air Tractor AT-802 aircraft were first used in Colombia in the early 2000s, when these machines were cultivated with coca plantations with defoliants. It is clear that the plantation guards could not indifferently watch how they were deprived of a source of income, and fired at the Air Tractors from all the barrels they had. The militants of the drug cartels and leftist rebel groups had not only light small arms at their disposal, but also large-caliber anti-aircraft machine guns and RPG-7 grenade launchers, so flights to destroy drug-containing plants were a great danger. The situation was aggravated by the fact that "on the combat course" when spraying chemicals AT-802 flew without maneuvering at low speed. After the planes began to return with bullet holes, emergency revision had to be carried out in the field. The cockpit was covered from the sides and bottom with improvised armor - bulletproof vests, and the fuel tanks were filled with neutral gas. However, passive measures to improve survivability were not limited to. On "sorties" flying sprayers accompanied EMB-312 Tucano attack aircraft.


Air Tractor AT-802 operation

The experience of using AT-802 aircraft in Colombia prompted Air Tractor specialists to create a specialized anti-insurgency aircraft that must meet the requirements of the Light Attack / Armed Reconnaissance (LAAR) program launched by the US Air Force. The LAAR program also included AT-6B Texan II, A-29 Super Tucano and OV-10X Bronco turboprop combat aircraft.

The light AT-802U attack aircraft, designed for close air support, aerial reconnaissance, observation and correction of ground forces, was first presented at the Le Bourget air show in 2009.


AT-802U

The two-seater aircraft has a maximum take-off weight of 7257 kg. Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-67F turboprop 600 hp from. capable of accelerating it in horizontal flight up to 370 km / h. Cruising speed - 290 km / h. Practical flight range - 2960 km. Glider resource - 12000 hours. The cost of an aircraft fully equipped with electronic systems is approximately $ 17 million, and operating costs are approximately $ 500 per hour of flight.

The AT-802U turboprop attack aircraft, created jointly by Air Tractor and IOMAX, differs from an agricultural aircraft in the presence of bulletproof armor for the engine and cockpit sides, bulletproof cockpit glazing, protected fuel tanks and a more durable airframe. The aircraft retains the ability to install a tank with chemicals and sprayers. In the compartment where the tank is installed, it is also possible to transport various goods, place additional equipment and fuel tanks. For weapons and containers with sighting and search systems and anti-aircraft missile countermeasures, the aircraft has 9 hardpoints. The armament includes both guided and unguided aircraft weapons weighing up to 4000 kg: 7,62-12,7-mm machine guns, 20-mm cannons, blocks with 70-mm NAR and bombs weighing up to 227 kg, as well as guided AGM-114M Hellfire and Roketsan Cirit laser-guided air-to-ground missiles.


The use of guided munitions is provided by the AN / AAQ 33 Sniper xr optoelectronic sighting system, operating in the visible and infrared ranges. A combined (IR and television) camera L3 Wescam MX-15Di is intended for observation and search of targets. It is located in the lower front hemisphere on the turret and is equipped with an airplane-to-ground communication link operating in a protected mode with ROVER video receivers, which allows image transmission in real time. The equipment of the AN / AAQ 33 Sniper xr complex operates in the visible and infrared ranges. The aircraft crew has the ability to search, detect, recognize and automatically track ground (surface) targets at ranges of 15-20 km in all weather conditions and at any time of the day, laser illumination and guidance of guided aircraft weapons.

"Combat tests" of the AT-802U took place in Colombia, where a turboprop attack aircraft was used to escort the unarmed AT-802. Apparently, the AT-802U was used by the US Bureau of Drug Enforcement Aviation (also known as INL Air Wing). INL Air Wing has about 240 aircraft and helicopters operating in Afghanistan, Bolivia, Colombia, Guatemala, Iraq, Mexico, Pakistan and Peru.

Another attack aircraft developed on the basis of an agricultural aircraft is the Archangel BPA, created by the IOMAX company. The Archangel was based on the Thrush 710 aircraft, which is structurally very close to the Air Tractor AT-802. The Thrush 710 aircraft develops a speed of 35 km / h and has the best ratio of weapon weight and fuel capacity. Archangel with a takeoff weight of 6720 is capable of covering 324 km at a cruising speed of 2500 km / h and staying in the air for 7 hours. In the armed version, the patrol time is 5 hours.


One of the first Archangel BPA aircraft

The main emphasis in the creation of the Archangel BPA aircraft was placed on the use of guided weapons, and it does not carry small arms and cannon weapons. In this respect, its capabilities are higher than that of the Air Tractor AT-802U. Six underwing hardpoints can accommodate up to 16 70-mm Cirit missiles with a laser guidance system, up to 12 AGM-114 Hellfire missiles, up to six JDAM or Paveway II / III / IV UABs. The Archangel in the strike version is capable of carrying more weapons on external suspension than any other aircraft of the same weight category. It is designed for independent search and destruction of small groups of militants, when the use of combat helicopters, jet fighters or attack aircraft is difficult from the point of view of combat effectiveness or inexpedient for economic reasons.


Earlier, IOMAX specialists developed sighting and reconnaissance equipment and a complex of weapons for the Air Tractor AT-802U aircraft, and, having gained the necessary experience, the company's management decided to independently create an anti-guerrilla aircraft. Compared to the AT-802U, the aircraft offered by IOMAX is equipped with more advanced avionics. "Archangel" can carry a container with electro-optical reconnaissance and search equipment manufactured by FLIR Systems. The aircraft has a centralized system of radar radiation and missile attack warning sensors.

On the Archangel BPA Block I modification, the two-seat tandem cockpit has dual controls and is equipped with color multifunctional indicators for the pilot and operator in the rear cockpit.


Archangel BPA Block I armament operator's dashboard

The Archangel BPA surpasses the AT-802U, which was originally created as a classic light attack aircraft, in its search and reconnaissance capabilities and flexibility in the use of guided weapons. Thanks to its sophisticated airborne electronic system, the Archangel is equally effective in covert operations, in providing close air support and in routine patrol flights. Most of the body armor on the Archangel BPA is quick-detachable and mounted depending on the nature of the task being performed. It is reported that some elements of protection can withstand the impact of bullets of 12,7 mm caliber.

In July 2014, the Archangel Block 3 reconnaissance and strike made its first flight. This modification of the Archangel outwardly differs significantly from the earlier versions and has improved aerodynamics. After the aircraft began to be supplied to foreign customers in the US Air Force, it was assigned the designation OA-8 Longsword.


Intelligence-strike aircraft Archangel BPA Block III

The aircraft received a "glass cockpit" and an even more advanced sighting and navigation system and weapons. The two-seat cockpit for the pilot and weapon operator has been moved forward and raised, which has improved forward and downward visibility. This also freed up space in the aft fuselage for the placement of electronic units of avionics and other equipment. A more rational layout made it possible to increase the volume of fuel tanks.


Archangel BPA Block III cockpit dashboard

The Archangel BPA Block III pilot has a CMC Esterline Cockpit 4000 avionics kit that is compatible with night vision equipment. The weapons operator's cab has three multifunctional displays and a front UFCP control panel.


The dashboard of the operator's cabin of the armament of the Archangel BPA Block III

For observation and search of targets on the Archangel BPA Block III aircraft, a suspended container with an integrated optoelectronic system L3 Wescam MX-15 / Star SAFIRE 380 HLD is used, capable of operating in poor visibility conditions and at night. Thales I-Master and Leonardo Osprey 30 radars are supposed to monitor land and sea surfaces. However, due to the high cost, this option has not been implemented in practice.


Suspended container with optoelectronic system

When creating the Archangel BPA Block III aircraft, great attention was paid to protection against air defense missiles with a thermal homing head used in MANPADS. Compared to the AT-802U, the aircraft's thermal signature is significantly reduced, which should reduce the likelihood of the TGS being captured. When flying in areas with a high risk of using modern MANPADS, in addition to heat traps, a suspended container with laser equipment can be used to blind the homing head.


Suspended container TERMA AN / ALQ-213

The standard means of protecting the aircraft from anti-aircraft missiles is the TERMA AN / ALQ-213 suspended equipment, which automatically detects the launch of missiles, radar and laser irradiation, fires radar and heat traps, and also helps to build an evasion maneuver.

Perfect reconnaissance and search systems installed on the latest modification of the "Archangel" allow you to detect targets and destroy them with guided weapons, without entering the short-range air defense system. At the same time, the latest modification of the Archangel BPA Block III fully loaded is quite expensive - more than $ 22 million, and the cost of its flight hour is almost $ 800.

The Bulgarian company LASA at the Paris Air Show-2017 demonstrated the light reconnaissance and attack aircraft T-Bird, the main purpose of which is to support operations against illegal armed groups.


Anti-insurgency aircraft T-Bird

The T-Bird anti-insurgency attack aircraft is based on the Trush 510G turboprop agricultural aircraft. The T-Bird is offered as a cheaper analogue of the AT-802U and Archangel BPA, and is mainly focused on the use of unguided missiles and small arms and cannon weapons. It is stated that the cockpit and a number of components are protected from rifle-caliber bullets fired from a distance of 300 m.The T-Bird electronic equipment was created by the Austrian company Airborne Technologies and includes a Self Contained Aerial Reconnaissance (SCAR) suspended container, information display displays, a set of equipment and Airborne Lynx Command and Control System communications.

Information on the sale of AT-802U and Archangel BPA aircraft is rather contradictory, and different sources do not agree on the number of aircraft delivered to customers. Iomax said it has already delivered 48 sets of equipment for AT-802U and Archangel BPA aircraft, which were accompanied by 4500 aircraft weapons.


It is known that the operators of the AT-802U and Archangel BPA, in addition to the American anti-drug agency, are the UAE, Egypt and Jordan. "Agricultural attack aircraft" were used in hostilities in the territories of Yemen and Libya. In January 2017, the US Department of State approved the sale of twelve Archangel BPA to Kenya. Angola, Niger and Cote d'Ivoire expressed interest in purchasing these aircraft.


The demand for light counterinsurgency and patrol aircraft stimulates not only the rework of training, agricultural and general aircraft, but also the creation of specially designed machines from scratch. On July 26, 2014, a prototype of a light multipurpose turboprop aircraft AHRLAC (Advanced High Performance Reconnaissance Light Aircraft) took off from the runway of the South African Vanderboom airfield for the first time.


The first flight copy of the AHRLAC aircraft

The first flight prototype was used to confirm the declared characteristics of the aircraft, and the second prototype, known as the ADM (Advanced Demonstrator), is intended for testing weapons and electronic sighting and reconnaissance systems.


The second flight copy of the AHRLAC aircraft

This aircraft has an unusual appearance and is an all-metal cantilever two-seat high-wing aircraft with one Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-66 turboprop engine with a capacity of 950 hp. with., with a reverse sweep wing and a pusher propeller, which is located at the rear of the fuselage between the beams of the tail. This layout was chosen to provide the best forward and downward visibility.


The aircraft has a very modest size and weight. Length - 10,5 m, height - 4,0 m, wingspan - 12,0 m. Its maximum take-off weight is 3800 kg, while the flight duration may exceed 7,5 hours. The practical ceiling is 9450 m. The maximum flight speed is 505 km / h. Take-off distance - 550 m. Six underwing hardpoints can carry various aircraft weapons with a total weight of up to 890 kg, including a 227-kg Mk 82 bombs. A 20-mm built-in cannon can also be installed.

The South African company Paramount Group began building the AHRLAC aircraft in 2009. This machine was originally conceived as an alternative to combat UAVs, but later it was decided to create an unmanned version. In 2016, it became known that the American corporation Boeing entered into an agreement on joint development and production of the AHRLAC aircraft. In accordance with this agreement, Boeing undertakes the creation of avionics and an aiming and navigation system. At the same time, potential customers (depending on their preferences and financial capabilities) are offered at least three options for sighting and search equipment, which differ in their capabilities. It is known that the strike version of the AHRLAC aircraft in South Africa received the designation MWARI.


Earlier, the Paramount Group reported that the base version of the new aircraft is estimated at $ 10 million, while the modification with a full set of combat capabilities - up to $ 20 million.In February 2018, it was announced that the improved AHRLAC design, created in cooperation with American companies Leidos and Vertex Aerospace was named Bronco II. In May 2020, this turboprop attack aircraft was offered to the US Special Operations Command (SOCOM) as part of the Armed Overwatch program.

Articles from this series:
Light turboprop attack aircraft: the experience of Vietnam
Service and combat use of Argentine turboprop attack aircraft IA.58A Pucara
Service and combat use of OV-10 Bronco turboprop attack aircraft after the end of the Vietnam War
Combat use of turboprop attack aircraft in the 1970-1990s
Combat use of EMB-314 Super Tucano turboprop attack aircraft
Author:
Articles from this series:
https://topwar.ru/176267-boevoe-primenenie-turbovintovyh-shturmovikov-v-1970-1990-e-gody.html
https://topwar.ru/175467-legkie-turbovintovye-shturmoviki-opyt-vetnama.html
https://topwar.ru/175690-sluzhba-i-boevoe-primenenie-argentinskih-turbovintovyh-shturmovikov-ia58a-pucara.html
https://topwar.ru/175925-sluzhba-i-boevoe-primenenie-turbovintovyh-shturmovikov-ov-10-bronco-posle-okonchanija-vetnamskoj-vojny.html
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  1. dzvero
    dzvero 5 November 2020 18: 17
    +7
    A wonderful series, like everything from the author! I'll leave it "for dessert" - read it at home. There are questions, but then ... drinks
    1. Borik
      Borik 5 November 2020 19: 40
      13
      A series of informative articles, a lot of interesting things.
      Looking at the photo (№-15) of the Archangel BPA Block III aircraft, it is somewhat reminiscent of the Ju-87
      1. Toucan
        Toucan 6 November 2020 01: 58
        +4
        If all the partisans suddenly run out, this "Archangel" will be able to act in films about the Second World War, portraying "The Thing" in them.
  2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 5 November 2020 18: 27
    11
    Sergei as always molotsa !!!
    1. Lexus
      Lexus 5 November 2020 20: 33
      15
      Vlad, I join. Perfect work! Sergei is true to himself. good
      1. Toucan
        Toucan 6 November 2020 02: 33
        10
        And what a striking contrast with "Damantsevism", isn't it?
      2. Bongo
        6 November 2020 08: 52
        +8
        Quote: lexus
        Vlad, I join. Perfect work! Sergei is true to himself. good

        Thank you for the appreciation of my work! drinks Frankly speaking, I am not indifferent to all "Tucano" and "Bronco". Something like that, they have ...
        1. Mister X
          Mister X 7 November 2020 20: 19
          +3
          Boeing Corporation has entered into an agreement on the joint development and production of the AHRLAC aircraft.

          AHRLAC, created in collaboration with American companies Leidos and Vertex Aerospace
          Author: Linnik Sergey

          hi
          Did you stop working with Boeing, or did you work on different modifications in parallel?
          1. Bongo
            9 November 2020 02: 58
            +3
            Hello! How is your health?
            Quote: Mister X
            Did you stop working with Boeing, or did you work on different modifications in parallel?

            Boeing is the main partner. Leidos and Vertex Aerospace are subcontractors for the creation of sighting, reconnaissance, communications and navigation equipment for the Bronco II modification.
            1. Mister X
              Mister X 9 November 2020 11: 50
              +3
              Quote: Bongo
              Hello! How is your health?

              Hello! I'm lying snotty at home.
              I work remotely.
              Quote: Bongo
              Boeing is the main partner. Leidos and Vertex Aerospace

              Thanks, thanks!
              1. Bongo
                9 November 2020 14: 04
                +2
                Quote: Mister X
                I'm lying snotty at home.
                I work remotely.

                It's time to start another article. Get well!
                1. Mister X
                  Mister X 9 November 2020 15: 47
                  +3
                  Quote: Bongo
                  Get well!

                  Thank you!
                  Quote: Bongo
                  It's time to start another article.

                  This requires a clear mind, and at the moment I'm not in shape (
                  And the next draft has been waiting for a couple of months
                  1. Bongo
                    9 November 2020 15: 55
                    +4
                    I just started writing about the bearish short-trunk. I think you'll like it. wink
                    1. Mister X
                      Mister X 9 November 2020 18: 20
                      +3
                      Quote: Bongo
                      I just started to write about the bear short-trunk

                      Oops!
                      Not really your topic. Right?
                      1. Bongo
                        10 November 2020 03: 31
                        +2
                        Good morning! I hope you are better now?
                        Quote: Mister X
                        Oops!
                        Not really your topic. Right?

                        So Yes. About firearms, I have little new to say. But given the fact that I spend a lot of time in nature, the topic is topical for me.
                      2. Mister X
                        Mister X 10 November 2020 11: 01
                        +1
                        We are waiting for you in a new role wink
                      3. Bongo
                        10 November 2020 11: 07
                        +2
                        Quote: Mister X
                        We are waiting for you in a new role wink

                        I'm afraid that the srach will not be weak. We have a lot of opponents of weapons. One shot I once wrote that if I saw a bear, then I need to call the huntsman. wassat Better not to go to the forest at all. Even law-abiding citizens should not be given weapons, they say, guns and carbines must be withdrawn, otherwise we will certainly shoot each other.
                      4. Mister X
                        Mister X 10 November 2020 13: 16
                        +2
                        Quote: Bongo
                        if you see a bear, you need to call the huntsman.

                        and if the phone does not catch? wink
                      5. Bongo
                        10 November 2020 13: 18
                        +2
                        Quote: Mister X
                        and if the phone does not catch?

                        You need to carry a satellite IRIDIUM with you.
                      6. Mister X
                        Mister X 10 November 2020 13: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: Bongo
                        You need to carry a satellite IRIDIUM with you.

                        for 100 thousand rubles ?!
                      7. Bongo
                        10 November 2020 13: 40
                        +3
                        Quote: Mister X
                        Quote: Bongo
                        You need to carry a satellite IRIDIUM with you.

                        for 100 thousand rubles ?!

                        How did you want? Contrary to the bear is the most effective remedy. As he finds out how much a minute of conversation costs, he will die immediately with laughter.
                      8. Mister X
                        Mister X 10 November 2020 13: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: Bongo
                        As he finds out how much a minute of conversation costs, he will die immediately with laughter.

                        Isn't it cheaper to go to the zoo / circus and see the Bear?
                      9. Bongo
                        10 November 2020 13: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: Mister X
                        Isn't it cheaper to go to the zoo / circus and see the Bear?

                        Nafig I need it, I've seen enough already. belay And not in the zoo ... never to see.
                        Okay, until next time. I will continue to work on this article.
                      10. Mister X
                        Mister X 10 November 2020 13: 47
                        +2
                        Quote: Bongo
                        I will continue to work on this article.

                        Good Luck!
  • Observer2014
    Observer2014 5 November 2020 18: 59
    14
    I love this topic !!!! This is what I dreamed about for the Russian army "A Thousand Years!" This is what you need! Like the BMP-T! So is the air dreadnought! As well as a 30 mm projectile for an anti-aircraft gun with remote detonation! For "Pantsir". And you need an ATGM shot - forgot.
  • Asad
    Asad 5 November 2020 19: 05
    +8
    A well-deserved plus! I read it in one breath! It's a shame for the domestic ,, small ,, aviation!
  • Professor
    Professor 5 November 2020 19: 05
    +9
    These corn workers are not an alternative to drones. The main advantage of the drone is (I will not write about the absence of a pilot) the long flight duration. The drone hangs over the "battlefield" for days, crushing the enemy's psyche.
    Low-cost stormtroopers occupy their niche and they complement drones perfectly.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 5 November 2020 19: 11
      +4
      Quote: Professor
      Low-cost stormtroopers occupy their niche and they complement drones perfectly.

      There is a question of price. A light attack aircraft will be cheaper than a full-fledged MALE + UAV.
      1. Professor
        Professor 5 November 2020 19: 17
        +8
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        Quote: Professor
        Low-cost stormtroopers occupy their niche and they complement drones perfectly.

        There is a question of price. A light attack aircraft will be cheaper than a full-fledged MALE + UAV.

        Not sure. It is necessary to consider the "cost of ownership", which includes both pilot training and his salary. How many sorties will a pilot make in 24? Aircraft? How many pilots are needed for a 24 hour aircraft operation?
        Israel counted and presented ALL their Jordan Cobras replacing on drones. The events in Azerbaijan have shown why.
        1. kapitan92
          kapitan92 5 November 2020 23: 55
          -1
          Quote: Professor
          Israel counted and donated ALL of its Cobras to Jordan by replacing them on drones.

          Israel counted, Israel donated. laughing
          According to Reuters, about 16 AH-1E / F Cobra helicopters, decommissioned by the Israeli Air Force in 2013, have been recovered and transferred to Jordan under the agreement. which was approved by the US leadership.

          The owner approved so Israel counted and presented
          The transfer of attack helicopters to Jordan is part of Washington's broader program to strengthen Amman's military capabilities to combat IS. In 2013, the United States approved the transfer of six AT-802 IOMAX aircraft from the United Arab Emirates to Jordan to perform the same tasks.

          The Emirates, too, after the command of the owner, counted and presented. laughing
          1. Professor
            Professor 6 November 2020 07: 57
            +6
            Quote: kapitan92
            The owner approved, so Israel counted and presented

            Not "owner" but "producer". The end user agreement does not allow the transfer of weapons to third parties without the consent of the manufacturer. We ALWAYS fulfill our obligations.
        2. Bongo
          6 November 2020 09: 00
          +6
          Quote: Professor
          Israel counted and donated ALL of its Cobras to Jordan by replacing them on drones.

          Well, not quite. No. You got rid of "Cobras" because these machines are hopelessly outdated and badly worn out. You still have the Apaches.
          1. Professor
            Professor 6 November 2020 10: 14
            +2
            Quote: Bongo
            Quote: Professor
            Israel counted and donated ALL of its Cobras to Jordan by replacing them on drones.

            Well, not quite. No. You got rid of "Cobras" because these machines are hopelessly outdated and badly worn out. You still have the Apaches.

            1. For the article you are definitely a plus, though not quite I agree with you.
            2. Shall I tell you about our ability to modernize equipment? They just thought drones were cheaper and more efficient. Apaches are a slightly different helicopter, and in general it is impossible without turntables.
    2. Bongo
      6 November 2020 08: 58
      +5
      Quote: Professor
      These corn workers are not an alternative to drones. The main advantage of the drone is (I will not write about the absence of a pilot) the long flight duration. The drone hangs over the "battlefield" for days, crushing the enemy's psyche.
      Low-cost stormtroopers occupy their niche and they complement drones perfectly.

      Hello! Haven't communicated for a long time!
      Quote: Professor
      These corn workers are not an alternative to drones.

      The article is titled: "Turboprop combat aircraft as an alternative to UAVs for countries"third world"". wink
      I will not repeat myself about the advantages and disadvantages of the UAV, in my opinion, this publication has said in sufficient detail about it. For countries "third world"These aircraft are a real alternative. Please remind me how many" Reapers "and" Predators "are there in the Iraqi and Afghan Air Forces? At the same time, such an aircraft as" Combat Caravan "quite successfully replaces them. Even the rich Emirates bought several of these machines, on which the number of pylons for ATGMs has been increased to four.
      1. Professor
        Professor 6 November 2020 10: 19
        +4
        Quote: Bongo
        Hello! Haven't communicated for a long time!

        Yeah. drinks

        Quote: Bongo
        The article is titled: "Turboprop combat aircraft as an alternative to UAVs for third world countries."
        I will not repeat myself about the advantages and disadvantages of the UAV, in my opinion, this publication has said in sufficient detail about it. For the countries of the "third world" these aircraft are a real alternative. Remind me, please, how many "Reapers" and "Predators" are there in the Iraqi and Afghan Air Forces? At the same time, such an aircraft as "Combat Caravan" quite successfully replaces them. Even the wealthy Emirates bought several of these machines, on which the number of pylons for ATGMs was brought to four.

        Let's take a look at Azerbaijan. Which countries of the world does it belong to? Now look with what kind of aircraft he knocks out the equipment and manpower of the Armenians. I mean, there is no alternative to the drone. Stormtroopers have their own niche, and this niche is getting narrower and narrower.

        PS
        Hello Olga. love
        1. zyablik.olga
          zyablik.olga 7 November 2020 06: 27
          +2
          Quote: Professor
          Hello Olga.

          Oleg, hello! Thanks for a flower!
          Quote: Professor
          Stormtroopers have their own niche, and this niche is getting narrower and narrower

          Maybe I do not understand with my feminine mind, if that correct me. But it seems to me that the niche of anti-guerrilla aircraft has remained stable for quite a long time. Even the US Special Operations Forces use such aircraft, despite the fact that the Americans have enough drones.
          Quote: Professor
          Let's take a look at Azerbaijan. Which countries of the world does it belong to? Now look with what kind of aircraft he knocks out the equipment and manpower of the Armenians.

          I would not call the conflict in Karabakh an "anti-terrorist operation". There are full-scale hostilities in which the most modern types of weapons are used.
          1. Professor
            Professor 7 November 2020 14: 13
            +3
            Quote: zyablik.olga
            Maybe I do not understand with my feminine mind, if that correct me. But it seems to me that the niche of anti-guerrilla aircraft has remained stable for quite a long time. Even the US Special Operations Forces use such aircraft, despite the fact that the Americans have enough drones.

            Americans generally have a zoo. The aviation has one technique, the marines have another, the guards have a third. And the plane takes its place in the niche. He did not gain popularity.

            Quote: zyablik.olga
            I would not call the conflict in Karabakh an "anti-terrorist operation". There are full-scale hostilities in which the most modern types of weapons are used.

            Azerbaijan shows the vulnerability of manned aircraft. Donbass has shown this before. Even the Russian Air Force in Syria operates from the heights of non-attack aircraft, despite the lack of air defense at the militia. What kind of guerrillas does this plane need?
            1. Bongo
              7 November 2020 14: 35
              +5
              Hi!
              Quote: Professor
              Americans generally have a zoo. The aviation has one technique, the marines have another, the guards have a third. And the plane takes its place in the niche. He did not gain popularity.

              Such aircraft have their own specifics, the A-29 and OV-10X operated very successfully against the Islamists. At the same time, the cost of a flight hour was in the range of $ 600-1000, which is about three times less than that of shock UAVs. Well, with jet attack aircraft and fighter-bombers, the difference in the cost of a flight hour is at least 10 times.
              Quote: Professor
              Azerbaijan shows the vulnerability of manned aircraft.

              And the actions of זרוע האוויר והחלל in SAR, what do they show? Again, armies of different technological level are fighting in Artsakh, specific conditions and the area of ​​the theater of operations are very limited.
              Quote: Professor
              Even the Russian Air Force in Syria operates from the heights of non-attack aircraft, despite the fact that the militias have no air defense.

              If you are talking about Su-24M and Su-34, then I agree with you. However, in the absence of a sufficient number of guided aircraft weapons of destruction, they are forced to use such delights as SVP-24 "Hephaestus". However, regarding the actions of the Russian Aerospace Forces from low altitudes in the SAR, you are a little cunning. Su-25 attack aircraft were quite actively used there, and even Su-35S attacked NAR S-8. Remind you of the launch range of 80 mm unguided missiles? And the Mi-35M, Mi-28 and Ka-52 helicopters are still in use. You probably know what proportion of guided missiles is in their ammunition load.
              1. Professor
                Professor 7 November 2020 14: 44
                +1
                Quote: Bongo
                Such aircraft have their own specifics, the A-29 and OV-10X operated very successfully against the Islamists. They acted very successfully against the Islamists, while the cost of a flight hour was in the range of $ 600-1000, which is about three times less than that of strike UAVs. Well, with jet attack aircraft and fighter-bombers, the difference in the cost of a flight hour is at least 10 times.

                It is not for nothing that these attack aircraft did not become popular. They occupy a niche in a niche. Now all and sundry are trying to create an attack aircraft on the basis of ... what flies. However, this is up to the first shot down side. Then, like in Karabakh, they will sit on the ground and "wait for the weather", and drones will rule in the air.

                Quote: Bongo
                And the actions of זרוע האוויר והחלל in SAR, what do they show? Again, armies of different technological level are fighting in Artsakh, specific conditions and the area of ​​the theater of operations are very limited.

                And what do the Zionists bomb with in Syria?

                Quote: Bongo
                If you are talking about Su-24M and Su-34, then I agree with you. However, in the absence of a sufficient number of guided aircraft weapons of destruction, they are forced to use such delights as SVP-24 "Hephaestus". However, regarding the actions of the Russian Aerospace Forces from low altitudes in the SAR, you are a little cunning. Su-25 attack aircraft were quite actively used there, and even Su-35S attacked NAR S-8. Remind you of the launch range of 80 mm unguided missiles? And the Mi-35M, Mi-28 and Ka-52 helicopters are still in use. You probably know what proportion of guided missiles is in their ammunition load.

                The Russian Air Force in Syria and was engaged in long-range bombers in carpet bombing. Helicopters and attack aircraft were used there sporadically and by the way there were also losses. Again, in the absence of air defense. I bet. If you had shock drones, we would not see there a single manned aircraft operating on the ground.
                1. Bongo
                  7 November 2020 14: 58
                  +5
                  Quote: Professor
                  It is not for nothing that these attack aircraft did not become popular.

                  Popularity is a relative thing. A-29 and "Kombat Karavan" are selling very well. In a number of countries, turboprop attack aircraft are the basis of air defense. Again, let me remind you that from the very beginning these planes were positioned by me as "weapons for the poor." However, the Americans are also eyeing them, primarily due to the very low operating costs.
                  Quote: Professor
                  The Russian Air Force in Syria and was engaged in long-range bombers in carpet bombing.

                  Remind you how the American B-52H and B-1B were used in Afghanistan?
                  Quote: Professor
                  Helicopters and attack aircraft were used there sporadically and by the way there were also losses.

                  Su-25 was introduced there twice. Attack helicopters take off daily.
                  Quote: Professor
                  Again, in the absence of air defense.

                  Are the OV-10X in Iraq and the A-29B in Afghanistan operating in other conditions?
                  Quote: Professor
                  I bet. If you had shock drones, we would not see there a single manned aircraft operating on the ground.

                  Of course, they would have pushed manned combat aircraft and helicopters when performing flights on "armed reconnaissance", but in terms of the strike potential of the UAV, even with the "Super Tucano" is not equal. Do you want to talk about the work of American combat aircraft and helicopters in Iraq and Afghanistan, while in the number of armed UAVs, the Americans are in the lead.
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 7 November 2020 16: 41
                    +3
                    Let's return to this topic in 2 years and see how many of these aircraft will be adopted and how many attack drones.
                    1. Bongo
                      9 November 2020 03: 09
                      +3

                      Quote: Professor
                      Let's return to this topic in 2 years and see how many of these aircraft will be adopted and how many attack drones.

                      Let's see how many turboprop attack aircraft were in service in 2015 and how many are now. Their number has approximately doubled. and the number of armed drones in third world countries remained zero. By "third world" I mean the states of Africa, Latin America, Southeast Asia, Iraq and Afghanistan.
  • ZEMCH
    ZEMCH 5 November 2020 19: 05
    +6
    The series is really good, I read a lot of useful things, I didn't even know about the existence of individual copies))) good Thanks to the author for the work!
  • times
    times 5 November 2020 19: 14
    20
    The AT-802U attack aircraft is very similar to our T-500.
    The article is interesting, thanks.
  • Diverter
    Diverter 5 November 2020 20: 02
    +6
    Article is super!
    Amused by the quality of the Bulgarian litaka)))).
    I also think that all these aircraft are the reincarnation of the Il-2, the need for their own air forces has been proven by the practice of other countries.
    For example, its use in the FSS (the destruction of poachers on the water, control of remote areas). It will also be very useful in videoconferencing.
    1. storm
      storm 5 November 2020 20: 59
      +6
      Usually, articles about weapons end with the topic "What do we have", but unfortunately now "the once great aviation power" has nothing to boast about ...
      Having a first-class design school, a powerful production base, Russia, oddly enough, does not have the most important thing - a line of serial ICEs for small aircraft and UAVs.
      The border guards, Rosgvardia, the Ministry of Emergency Situations, and Lesokhran urgently need light patrol manned and unmanned aircraft, which are much cheaper to operate compared to the traditional Mi-8 or An-2.
      1. Diverter
        Diverter 5 November 2020 21: 02
        +5
        yes, we have problems with engines for small and micro aircraft (((
    2. Runway
      Runway 6 November 2020 02: 43
      0
      Decent, informative (for the outlook) article. Thanks to the author.
      At the expense of the need for such airplanes of the FSB PS - they are not needed from the word at all.
      Even taking into account the fact that there has been a change in the methods of protecting the GG. You can't fit linear units into the SBD, all the more so into the life support scheme of the organs / operational management.
      1. Diverter
        Diverter 8 November 2020 12: 36
        +3
        This is probably why the FSB PV is armed with An 72 aircraft with the possibility of bombing?
        1. Runway
          Runway 8 November 2020 13: 23
          0
          An 72 is a classmate of Yankee patrolmen. Why?
          In addition - a transport and a "cattle". Why?
          Board with two engines. Why?
          One and a half dozen "Cheburashkas" for one and a half hundred "turntables". Why?
  • iouris
    iouris 5 November 2020 20: 32
    +1
    You can dream as much as you want, but the industry is not capable of producing decent engines and competitive on-board equipment for such aircraft. In addition, the "third world countries" do not start (local) wars by themselves. They are used by the countries of the "first world". If necessary, they will give everything. An example is the war in Karabakh.
    1. ab2020
      ab2020 5 November 2020 23: 43
      +1
      I think that the industry is capable of producing both engines and avionics. The question is in quantity. If only a couple of dozen engines are needed, then their price, taking into account the development and launch into a series, will be cosmic. And so much so that it will be cheaper to buy a serial jet fighter.
    2. Diverter
      Diverter 8 November 2020 12: 38
      +1
      the industry is capable of making the Su 35 and the Yak 130, but this cannot? Ha ha. This task was not set here for the reason.
      1. Bongo
        9 November 2020 03: 12
        0
        Quote: Saboteur
        the industry is capable of making the Su 35 and the Yak 130, but this cannot? Ha ha. This task was not set here for the reason.

        In our country, there are no theaters that are suitable in terms of power and dimensions No. It is also unlikely that it will be possible to quickly create a truly effective and compact all-day sighting and reconnaissance complex.
  • Aag
    Aag 5 November 2020 20: 42
    +4
    I was waiting for a similar article. Thanks to the author. Sorry, I ran diagonally, I'll leave it for sweets!. The question was hanging in the air, -to solve a number of problems, -a asking solution (if not special, I already offered similar options on this resource to compensate for the absence of UAVs in some niches, in some conditions ..) hi
  • Maluck
    Maluck 5 November 2020 21: 30
    +2
    Even if the plane can technically hang in the air for 7,5 hours, imagine what it is like for pilots all this time. It's not on autopilot to fly through the Atlantic, here you have to perform a combat mission. To summarize - yes, there is a reserve of flight time, but the problem is in the human resource, which is unfortunately limited.
    1. Bongo
      6 November 2020 09: 18
      +4
      Quote: Maluck
      Even if the plane can technically hang in the air for 7,5 hours, imagine what it is like for pilots all this time. It's not on autopilot to fly through the Atlantic, here you have to perform a combat mission. To summarize - yes, there is a reserve of flight time, but the problem is in the human resource, which is unfortunately limited.

      When necessary, the pilots are in their places as long as required to complete the combat mission. One can recall Operation Anaconda, when the F-15E fighter-bomber pilots were in the air for more than 8 hours. When providing close air support to American rangers who got into a difficult situation, the F-15E pilot had to fire from a 20-mm cannon at the Taliban advancing on the positions of American special forces until the ammunition was completely used up, which had not been in the American Air Force since the days of Vietnam.
  • Azimuth
    Azimuth 5 November 2020 21: 33
    +6
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    Quote: Professor
    Low-cost stormtroopers occupy their niche and they complement drones perfectly.

    There is a question of price. A light attack aircraft will be cheaper than a full-fledged MALE + UAV.

    Not sure. It is necessary to consider the "cost of ownership", which includes both pilot training and his salary. How many sorties will a pilot make in 24? Aircraft? How many pilots are needed for a 24 hour aircraft operation?
    Israel counted and presented ALL their Jordan Cobras replacing on drones. The events in Azerbaijan have shown why.
    They didn't ask me, but ... laughing
    Answering the first, I would say that on the contrary, it is the drones that complement the attack aircraft.
    Answering the second, about "cost of ownership", correctly in Russian "cost of ownership", Mr. - Comrade Professor is a little cunning when advertising the products of his own military-industrial complex.
    1. The fact is that there is still the issue of RANGE, not every state has its own grouping, or at least a pair of communication satellites, in order to provide control of reconnaissance or strike UAVs at long range. By the way, what about the cost of owning communication satellites? wink
    2. UAVs and turboprop attack aircraft, for example, with equal range, have different capabilities not only in terms of range due to limitations in range, communication capabilities, but also in front width, a turboprop attack aircraft is more flexible here.
    3. Available attack UAVs have less payload than available attack aircraft.
    4. Mobility. For the deployment and transfer of UAVs on a scale of large countries, a military vehicle and ground infrastructure is required, akin to that required for the same turboprop attack aircraft. At the same time, the transfer of attack aircraft under their own power ensures a faster deployment.
    5. Pilots of turboprop attack aircraft do not require as expensive training as pilots of jet attack aircraft, their content is much lower. In addition, traditions, school are preserved, competition among applicants is higher, then cadets and pilots, and the Air Force has more choice.
    1. ab2020
      ab2020 5 November 2020 23: 48
      +5
      I'll try to develop the idea: the cost of ammunition: everything high-precision is very, very expensive. A single UAV attack can cost tens of thousands of dollars.
      A conventional attack aircraft is theoretically capable of using traditional non-reactive ammunition.
    2. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 6 November 2020 01: 49
      0
      Quote: Azimuth
      1. The fact is that there is still the issue of RANGE, not every state has its own grouping, or at least a pair of communication satellites, in order to provide control of reconnaissance or strike UAVs at long range.

      in addition, the control of this complex from UAVs and satellites requires a single control center (like the United States and China), that is, a stationary object, that is, a target, the destruction of which will land all these UAVs on the ground. Am I wrong anywhere?
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 5 November 2020 23: 08
    +1
    Interesting airplanes. Analogues of our IL-2/10 during the war.
    Does the Russian Federation have enough capabilities for the Su-25?
    1. zyablik.olga
      zyablik.olga 6 November 2020 02: 56
      +6
      Quote: xomaNN
      Does the Russian Federation have enough capabilities for the Su-25?

      The Su-25 navigation and sighting system is hopelessly outdated. In combat operations against a technologically advanced enemy, our attack aircraft will suffer heavy losses, while against partisans they are not optimal.
  • Same lech
    Same lech 6 November 2020 00: 08
    +3
    Thank you Sergey for your work hi ... the article is beautifully done ... it is difficult to dig into the material ... it is presented succinctly and informatively and impartially.
    Information useful to me. good
  • Azimuth
    Azimuth 6 November 2020 01: 31
    +3
    Quote: xomaNN
    Does the Russian Federation have enough capabilities for the Su-25?
    Behind the eyes, the Su-25 is one of the best attack aircraft currently in service. But he represents a different class, and something close to what we are discussing, there were attempts in Russia to create light aircraft for patrolling with the possibility of striking, for example, SM-94 Finist:


    There was also an idea, back in the USSR, about converting the Yak-52 into a light attack aircraft Yak-52B, and using DOSAAF aviation: https://topwar.ru/81046-yak-52b-nesostoyavshiysya-borec-s-partizanami.html
    1. zyablik.olga
      zyablik.olga 6 November 2020 03: 00
      +3
      Quote: Azimuth
      Quote: xomaNN
      Does the Russian Federation have enough capabilities for the Su-25?
      Behind the eyes, the Su-25 is one of the best attack aircraft currently in service. But he represents a different class, and something close to what we are discussing, there were attempts in Russia to create light aircraft for patrolling with the possibility of striking, for example, SM-94 Finist:


      There was also an idea, back in the USSR, about converting the Yak-52 into a light attack aircraft Yak-52B, and using DOSAAF aviation: https://topwar.ru/81046-yak-52b-nesostoyavshiysya-borec-s-partizanami.html

      An aircraft with a piston engine in terms of its combat load and flight speed cannot be compared with an aircraft equipped with a theater of operations.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 8 November 2020 18: 23
        +2
        Quote: zyablik.olga
        An aircraft with a piston engine in terms of its combat load and flight speed cannot be compared with an aircraft equipped with a theater of operations.

        Not quite.

        This is true for Western realities, where 2 piston engines occupied a niche of up to 300 l / s, and everything that is higher, for a number of reasons, has gone into theater for 50 years. A piston with a capacity of 700 l / s, like the same Pratt & Whitney PT6A-114A, is quite possible (let me remind you that the WWII planes had 2K +, and now 700 hp is produced by some kind of 3-liter V6 twin-turbo on a chip), just weird anything other than the industry standard is usually pointless.
        1. Toucan
          Toucan 9 November 2020 06: 08
          0
          A piston with a capacity of 700 l / s, like the same Pratt & Whitney PT6A-114A, is quite possible (remember that the WWII planes had 2K +, and now 700 hp is produced by some kind of 3-liter V6 twin-turbo on a chip)

          I don’t know, I don’t know of modern aircraft piston engines of this power. Again, what would be the weight, fuel efficiency, and life of such an engine?
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 9 November 2020 09: 26
            +1
            Now - they are not, I wrote about it. Turbines, usually PV Canada, are the industry standard.
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 6 November 2020 01: 35
    0
    Quote: Professor
    donated ALL my Cobras to Jordan

    I gave it as a present.
    Of course, they don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
    But these Cobras are too worn out.
    They were ashamed to sell, but it is not a shame to give such old stuff.
  • Nikolay R-PM
    Nikolay R-PM 6 November 2020 08: 21
    +3
    Sergey, hello. Content cycle, thank you. I have revised some of my views on this type of aviation technology. At my leisure, I will study this issue in more detail.
    1. Bongo
      6 November 2020 09: 22
      +6
      Quote: Nikolai R-PM
      Sergey, hello. Content cycle, thank you. I have revised some of my views on this type of aviation technology. At my leisure, I will study this issue in more detail.

      Nikolay, hello! Glad you like it! Due to my modest capabilities, I tried to tell you about the history of use and the potential of light turboprop combat aircraft. This, of course, in no way means that such attack aircraft will replace your favorite helicopters. In my opinion, both of them have their own niche.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 6 November 2020 09: 21
    0
    This is in some way a replacement for the UAV of the Reaper type and in some way a replacement for the Mi28 and Ka52 combat helicopters.
    If we consider sensibly - 1 piece of TVD type VK2500 and you can supply almost the entire set of equipment for these helicopters. Plus, good altitude of the aircraft, speed and long range (which is a big plus in the case of countries such as the Russian Federation, Kazakhstan, Mongolia) .... and a much lower cost of the aircraft. And its life cycle.
  • Per se.
    Per se. 6 November 2020 11: 25
    +2
    Somehow, Sergei, we touched on the topic of the IL-10. Perhaps, as an "anti-guerrilla" aircraft, it could still serve against militants and terrorists. Of course, with a new engine, avionics and modern weapons.
    1. Toucan
      Toucan 6 November 2020 11: 35
      +3
      The IL-10 has an absolutely archaic design by modern standards. It's easier to create a new aircraft than to improve the attack aircraft of the Great Patriotic War.
    2. iouris
      iouris 6 November 2020 22: 33
      +2
      Quote: Per se.
      Perhaps, as an "anti-guerrilla" aircraft, it could still serve against militants and terrorists.

      Well, this is generally beyond the bounds of good and evil. Back to the Future?
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 7 November 2020 18: 19
        0
        Quote: iouris
        Back to the Future?
        Are you joking? You don't have to understand everything literally, like how to remove the T-34 from the pedestal and put it into action (although it will press, it will be so). Those flying squalor that are used as turboprop attack aircraft are much more "back to the future". On the basis of IL-10, you can create a new project. Of course, it’s easier to screw up everything, but, I repeat, even the Il-10 itself is a much more combat aircraft than what is now used for the Third World countries. See the photo above. I did not call to replace the Su-30 or Su-25, but to supplement it, to make a turboprop attack aircraft for export to the same "third countries". Why not?
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 8 November 2020 18: 29
          +5
          Quote: Per se.
          Those flying squalor that are used as turboprop attack aircraft are much more "back to the future"

          Well, in fact, an armored tractor pulls, in addition to armor, another 4 tons of weapons. That is 10 times more than the IL-10. There, the B-29 is not that far in terms of load.
          1. Per se.
            Per se. 9 November 2020 07: 10
            0
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Well, in fact, an armored tractor pulls, in addition to armor, another 4 tons of weapons
            One of the best "armored tractors" A-29 Super Tucano has rather weak protection against the Il-10 armor.

            If we are talking specifically about an attack aircraft, and not a bomber performing an attack, then in terms of protection in its direct purpose, among light aircraft there is no equal to the IL-10.

            Even the Su-34 received armor, the outer body of the aircraft cabin is made of an armored shell, an alloy of armor titanium 17 mm thick, which weighs 1480 kg (almost 1,5 times more than that of the Su-25). That is, the armor is in demand, but the prices there are already completely different, even the same Su-25 will be more expensive than the revised Il-10.

            There is a fighting niche between combat helicopters and jet combat aircraft above the battlefield, and it can and must be filled. The Il-10 turboprop, or an armored inexpensive attack aircraft created by such a thing, in my opinion, could fill this niche for a number of combat missions.

            At the end of the 60s of the last century, allegedly, there was even an experimental modernization of the Il-10 attack aircraft, by replacing the engine with an AI-20 turboprop. Whether it was real or not, but such a prospect could well be considered, the Chinese even drew a picture.



            Thank you.
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 9 November 2020 10: 34
              +2
              Considering how little Su25s live in Donbas and Karabakh ... Tucano only needs armor against accidents. He still works from 5-6000 km. Where the range of MANPADS ends. And at such a height, "tank" booking is no longer so necessary.
  • ifdru74
    ifdru74 6 November 2020 12: 23
    +4
    Each technique has its own purpose. For patrolling a large border in peacetime, a drone is quite useful, for work on enemy troops it is not a pity to send a front-line bomber. A flight to destroy a pickup truck with barmaley can be carried out on a turboprop aircraft. And it will be economically justified. The presence of a person in the cockpit speeds up and improves the use of weapons of any type, compared to a drone, and the cost of a flight hour allows us to wage wars with the barmaley for centuries. A helicopter is, in some places, better than a turboprop aircraft, but the cost of a flight hour, flight duration and vulnerability will be worse. And do not forget that oil products will eventually run out, and for some reason there are still no electric jet planes. Unlike screw.
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 6 November 2020 12: 49
    +3
    Quote: Azimuth
    There was also an idea, back in the USSR, about the conversion of the Yak-52 into a light attack aircraft Yak-52B, and the use of DOSAAF aviation

    He can also beat a fighter of medium drones (Bayraktar and others like him).
    A drone can also be armed as a fighter, but for this, it also needs human intelligence.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 9 November 2020 10: 38
      0
      Maybe, but here is the same problem as with the air defense system .... and Pantsir, due to the presence of a radar, is even better off ... A control center is needed for the one who shoots down. And an overview of the space by the RTR troops. If you don't see the target, you won't hit it.
  • rusboris
    rusboris 6 November 2020 13: 56
    +1

    What do we have for a low-intensity war in the Russian Aerospace Forces in 2020? About two hundred "golden" Su-25 attack aircraft and that's it. Too expensive car and pilot. At an altitude of less than 1000 meters, the attack aircraft will be shot down with a high probability. The helicopters are even worse. Since the militants shoot them down from a portable anti-aircraft missile system, a hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher or a large-caliber machine gun at any acceptable height. Not worth a billion rubles in losses for the downed equipment of the shaitan arba and three pairs of barmaley slippers. The personnel issue in a low-intensity war is very sensitive. On the conventional IL-10, it can be solved simply. Any man from the allies in the CSTO will happily become a pilot of an attack aircraft in 6 months. This is differently better than carrying glass wool at construction sites. And the pilots of Russia on the Su-25, after 5 years of the pilot school, let them train to fight with NATO. For those smart people who rely on precision weapons, such as guided missiles and gliding bombs, it is useful to get acquainted with their price. To confirm my words, I refer to the study of the economic component of the most belligerent air forces in the world, the Israeli army. In more than half of the cases of the combat use of aviation by calling the infantry, the damage to the enemy was not worth the kerosene spent on the plane's departure. The sufficiency of firepower for an attack aircraft in low-intensity warfare in Russia has long been debated. But a decision will not be made in the short term, in my evaluative opinion. Krasava IL-10. Armament: 2X23mm cannons, 2X7,62mm machine guns, 1X12,7mm machine gun, combat load 600 kg, missiles, bombs. Fully armored, cheap steel center section and bulletproof glazing of the cockpit. The empty weight of the aircraft is 4650 kg. Armor thickness from 4 mm to 16 mm. But, for the Russian military-industrial complex, more than a billion rubles for one Su-25 is incomparably more weighty than 300 million rubles for a conventional Il-10 attack aircraft. “Not for the sake of selfishness,” but only for the Motherland we care. It is advisable to know the surname, name and patronymic of these disinterested officials of the military-industrial complex, but such information is not available to sofa experts.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 6 November 2020 17: 09
      +5
      Quote: rusboris
      Krasava IL-10. Armament: 2X23mm cannons, 2X7,62mm machine guns, 1X12,7mm machine gun, combat load 600 kg, missiles, bombs.

      That is, one 250-kg bomb and one or two blocks of 7 NURS S-8. Loading one hit on an open target. There is no possibility to use URO. External guidance - only by radio ("two bast shoes to the left of that birch") or smoke / flares.
      Any new avionics - minus the fuel supply and combat load. Plus, the body was redesigned.
      1. rusboris
        rusboris 6 November 2020 18: 49
        +2
        Alexey, Il-10 is "conventional", it means only the concept of the apparatus. It is mostly load-bearing steel armor. All the rest of the filling is at the modern technological level. For example, guns "conditionally" from "Shilka", cluster bombs. Night sights, etc. The price of the basic configuration is about 400 million rubles. The maximum configuration is 700 million. Any whim for your money. The price of a flight hour is 50 rubles. For comparison, the Su-000, an hour in flight costs over a million. The main problem is that there is no decent domestic motor. With an imported engine, the price will climb to the level of the "toucan", ie. uncompetitive for the Ministry of Defense of Russia and Kazakhstan.
    2. Sancho_SP
      Sancho_SP 8 November 2020 20: 02
      -1
      Well, look more broadly than aviation: where the IL-10 can operate freely with a jamshut at the helm, a battalion of jamshuts will perform remarkably well on the ground, and the battalion will cost less, and the result will also be "infantry" (it will occupy the territory).

      The very fact of the use of manned aircraft is a direct military invasion. And UAVs still fit into the concept of ichtamnets.
    3. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 9 November 2020 10: 39
      0
      At first, you can use the Yak130. To put SVP-24 Hephaestus and, finally, to make an aiming container for all the Air Force ..... It stands on Tucano.
  • Kyodza
    Kyodza 6 November 2020 14: 49
    -3
    There is also a Krich base from Nevada in Russia. Only it is located in the very center of Moscow, and is called TSUROP ...
    1. Toucan
      Toucan 6 November 2020 15: 56
      +2
      Do we have drones that can be controlled via satellite channels and are capable of carrying weapons? No.
      1. Azimuth
        Azimuth 6 November 2020 23: 24
        +2
        No. Such, and a satellite for control is needed for attack UAVs with a long range and flight time, only the United States has.
  • saygon66
    saygon66 6 November 2020 15: 35
    0
    - A small note on the translation: bully
    - "Light reconnaissance aircraft with improved flight and operational characteristics"
  • Azimuth
    Azimuth 6 November 2020 23: 33
    +2
    Quote: rusboris
    Alexey, Il-10 is "conventional", it means only the concept of the apparatus. It is mostly load-bearing steel armor. All the rest of the filling is at the modern technological level. For example, guns "conditionally" from "Shilka", cluster bombs. Night sights, etc. The price of the basic configuration is about 400 million rubles. The maximum configuration is 700 million. Any whim for your money. The price of a flight hour is 50 rubles. For comparison, the Su-000, an hour in flight costs over a million. The main problem is that there is no decent domestic motor. With an imported engine, the price will climb to the level of the "toucan", ie. uncompetitive for the Ministry of Defense of Russia and Kazakhstan.
    Once considered "mobilization" options for attack aircraft, including the use of the cockpit of the Su-25, and the Mi-24, and the Ka-52 with a turboprop engine. There was an option, if I'm not mistaken, the T-502, with a pusher propeller, also an option.
    The only thing in my opinion of a layman, in the bow it would be worth placing a "Spear" radar, and under the fuselage a stabilized optical system with a rangefinder / pointer. The result would be an economical attack aircraft with the ability to work, including on air targets, like a helicopter or a UAV.
    https://pkk-avia.livejournal.com/52236.html
    1. Azimuth
      Azimuth 6 November 2020 23: 48
      +3
      Too futuristic, reminiscent of the American jet Ares, but if they took it and brought it up, it would have turned out to be a very real, light and practical machine.
      "Light" option:


      Another option, "heavy", pay attention to the air intakes and nose and screws:

      1. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 8 November 2020 19: 58
        0
        Well, put a tank instead of the cockpit, and you will get a good percussion UAV with a long flight duration. In the conditions of electronic countermeasures, such machines are still not applicable.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 9 November 2020 10: 42
          +1
          That he would work as an attack aircraft ... there is still a carriage with a computer needed. And for a simple UAV, the armor and power are excessive.
          1. Sancho_SP
            Sancho_SP 9 November 2020 17: 33
            0
            For a squadron of airplanes, even these, you need 10 carriages of airfield support. The 11th car with electronics will not load much.
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 9 November 2020 19: 24
              0
              Carriage on board
              1. Sancho_SP
                Sancho_SP 9 November 2020 20: 06
                0
                On board, the electronics of the drone already take up less than a cockpit with a life support system. See the same bayraktar.
                1. Zaurbek
                  Zaurbek 9 November 2020 20: 51
                  +1
                  A drone and an unmanned attack aircraft or fighter plane are different things.
                  1. Sancho_SP
                    Sancho_SP 9 November 2020 21: 05
                    0
                    Explain the difference? Having a gun and nourses?
                    1. Zaurbek
                      Zaurbek 9 November 2020 21: 16
                      +1
                      Target detection, maneuvering, target approaches ... the same difference as the U-2 with bombs and the A-10. Supporting troops on the battlefield and dropping bombs like in a shooting range - different tasks and different aircraft.
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 9 November 2020 10: 44
        +2
        A mixture of Tu95 and Su25 ..... This is something from the theme "Wartime Stormtrooper", so that a unified armored cabin could be riveted into a Stormtrooper at different plants.
  • nemoXX
    nemoXX 7 November 2020 09: 43
    +2
    That's right! To fight "at any cost" and "to the last drop of blood" is where they do not defend the country and its citizens, but the power over this country of those who squander it shamelessly, countlessly and with impunity. Start a war tomorrow - it turns out that Russia will be forced to send expensive and sophisticated aircraft to bomb relatively insignificant targets, where they will be regularly destroyed. illiterate women, children, old men and prisoners, as in the last "big" war. And nuclear weapons will not protect from anything!
  • exo
    exo 7 November 2020 11: 22
    +3
    Great article series!
    The helicopter is much more complex technically. For example: in the Civil Air Fleet, the helicopter was a class 1 technique, and the larger AN-12 and TU-134, the second.
    Therefore, it is harder to operate and master. So, a turboprop attack aircraft can be (big question) supplanted only by a UAV.
    1. Sancho_SP
      Sancho_SP 8 November 2020 19: 56
      -3
      Yes, it cannot be, but has already been supplanted.
  • Bobik012
    Bobik012 7 November 2020 18: 47
    -2
    The collective farm!
    Until the first decent opponent
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Crabong
    Crabong 8 November 2020 13: 01
    +1
    The avionics are gorgeous, of course ...
  • Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 8 November 2020 19: 55
    -4
    1. Light propeller driven vehicles appeared BEFORE the heyday of the UAV. Today it is a dead end.
    2. Purely mathematically, a manned vehicle is more expensive than an unmanned vehicle. A pilot with a cockpit today is much heavier than an uav control unit, which means a manned vehicle is heavier and more expensive. And the cheaper and more massively electronics becomes, the more characteristic it is.
    3. Pilot training for third world countries is not much cheaper than for “first” countries. Only the salary is less, in fact. This is not a savings.
    4. UAVs do not have a lower dimension limit. Only the Pilot with the cockpit weighs more than 200 kg anyway, and many attack UAVs are entirely lighter.
    1. Toucan
      Toucan 9 November 2020 02: 15
      +1
      Quote: Sancho_SP
      Today it is a dead end.

      Those. turboprop attack aircraft dead end, and much slower and more vulnerable helicopters are not dead end? Have you read the first part of the article? In my opinion, the author has quite well revealed the advantages and disadvantages of all aircraft used against partisans.
      1. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 9 November 2020 02: 26
        -2
        Manned attack helicopters are also a dead end, of course. They will become unmanned a little later (like ships, for example), because the design is more expensive, and UAVs are made from cheap to expensive.

        Troopers - no, they have different tasks.
        1. Bongo
          9 November 2020 03: 20
          +2
          Quote: Sancho_SP
          Manned attack helicopters are also a dead end, of course. They will become unmanned a little later (like ships, for example), because the design is more expensive, and UAVs are made from cheap to expensive.

          Forgive me, I have already asked this question, but I will repeat myself especially for you. In which countries that have problems with the rebels are attack drones in service? And let's compare real combat load of UAVs and AT-802U?
          As for unmanned helicopters, what will be their cost, and will they become available to third world states? No.
          In addition, I have always urged to assess the situation adequately, not to indulge in fantasies and talk about what is, and not about what may be (or may not be).
          1. Sancho_SP
            Sancho_SP 9 November 2020 10: 08
            0
            Now? Now even Russia, for example, does not have strike drones. But this is for now. Although how do you classify Azerbaijan? Is this the third world? Fighting rebels?

            But there is already an obvious tendency that for tasks in low-intensity conditions, the delivery of small loads (such as a single helfire) is definitely cheaper for a drone. Precisely because the UAV has no lower size limit.

            The second obvious trend is that any vehicle can be unmanned. Including the size of a strategic bomber. It's just that with a car weighing several tons or more, it is the weight and size gain due to the absence of a pilot and a cockpit that is not so clearly noticeable.

            But the third trend is less obvious: it can be assumed that electronic warfare means will also become cheaper and more affordable over time.
            1. Bongo
              9 November 2020 13: 21
              0
              You can answer these questions without water and emptying:
              Quote: Bongo
              In which countries that have problems with the rebels are attack drones in service? And let's compare the real combat load of the UAV and the AT-802U?
              As for unmanned helicopters, what will be their cost, and will they become available to third world states?
  • p164
    p164 8 November 2020 21: 25
    +3
    Do we have something like that?
    Let's go without hypocrisy. Armed conflicts occur regularly in our country. And they don't look like World War III.
    And for export it would be possible. Although, in this situation, as described in the article, there are not enough prospects.
    1. Azimuth
      Azimuth 9 November 2020 11: 03
      -1
      [media = https: //youtu.be/Zrw7kiv7ivI]
      See from 06:45
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 9 November 2020 09: 50
    0
    Do we need such planes?
    1. Toucan
      Toucan 9 November 2020 10: 03
      +1
      If we have to fight illegal armed groups in the future, then we need them.
      1. Protos
        Protos 12 November 2020 17: 15
        -1
        Quote: Pavel57
        Do we need such planes?

        We already have a serial Yak-130:
        combat radius of 900 km
        up to 3 tons of combat load (avionics can be used from cast iron to X-25M and electronic warfare containers)
        9 suspension points
        two engines
        duplicated control
        up to 370kg of armor
        MBRLS MF-2
        routine use from unpaved airfields
        operating costs 6 times cheaper than SU-30SM and 3 times cheaper than Su-25
        repairable in the field
        ejection systems allow to save pilots even at zero altitude
        1. Bongo
          12 November 2020 17: 22
          +3
          Quote: Protos
          We already have a serial Yak-130

          In the stormtrooper variant?
          Quote: Protos
          combat radius of 900 km
          up to 3 tons of combat load (avionics can be used from cast iron to X-25M and electronic warfare containers)

          Combat radius 900 km with a load of 3000 kg? No. Be so kind as to have a photo of a Yak-130 with such a combat load, an X-25 missile launcher and electronic warfare containers.
          Quote: Protos
          operating costs 6 times cheaper than SU-30SM and 3 times cheaper than Su-25
          How much is it in "always green"?
          Quote: Protos
          repairable in the field

          No more than Su-25. No.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Bongo
              12 November 2020 17: 39
              +2
              Those. you could not answer any specific question. For some reason, I'm not surprised. No.
              Are you able to distinguish between exhibition photos, with mock-ups of SAP, from photos of combat vehicles with real weapons?
              1. Protos
                Protos 12 November 2020 18: 50
                -2
                Can you read ?! Or just write ?!
                What else you do very well wink
                "In terms of the combat component, our main event is that we brought the Yak-130 here. Here we represent the beginning of a project for its deep modernization: we are significantly expanding its combat capabilities. It is becoming not just a combat training aircraft, but to a large extent a combat aircraft. aircraft",

                - the head of the UAC told reporters at the Dubai Airshow 2019.

                Slyusar noted that after a deep modernization of the Yak-130 it will be possible to adapt it to the customer and the region of application. “We have customized these increased combat capabilities just for those customers here in the Middle East, taking into account the tasks that they have to solve here. <…> "
                And where did I write about "combat vehicles with real weapons"?
                : laughing
  • nikoloza
    nikoloza 9 November 2020 12: 06
    +2
    Great stuff, thanks! Such a question: how effective can be the use of such lethal devices against the drones themselves? After all, drones themselves are not so fast and are quite comparable in speed and ceiling with turboprop machines.
    1. Bongo
      9 November 2020 13: 18
      +3
      Quote: nikoloza
      Great stuff, thanks! Such a question: how effective can be the use of such lethal devices against the drones themselves? After all, drones themselves are not so fast and are quite comparable in speed and ceiling with turboprop machines.

      Provided that turboprop aircraft are equipped with effective search systems (radars and thermal imagers), they can successfully fight not only UAVs, but also helicopters. Moreover, the Tucano and Super Tucano aircraft have established themselves as effective interceptors for drug-carrying aircraft.
      1. nikoloza
        nikoloza 9 November 2020 18: 33
        +2
        Are there any real cases of their anti-drone use? Interesting to read. As the current Karabakh conflict shows, the issue is very relevant, especially for the third world countries.
        1. Bongo
          10 November 2020 03: 33
          +1
          Quote: nikoloza
          Are there any real cases of their anti-drone use?

          I don't know about this, but the potential is certainly there. Perhaps we will see this in future conflicts.
  • PROXOR
    PROXOR 9 November 2020 17: 46
    -2
    I'm wildly sorry, but piston assault aircraft are wasted money. Low speed, low thrust-to-weight ratio. Even if the spirits do not have MANPADS, it is easier to shoot down a turboprop from a ZUshka.
    In Chechnya, the Rooks, covering our scouts, attacking the spirits, were spinning like snakes in pans. Rook is a well-armored high-speed attack aircraft. And here is a shushlaika with a propeller.
    1. Toucan
      Toucan 10 November 2020 02: 15
      0
      Have you read the article carefully or just looked at the pictures? Please familiarize yourself with the composition of the avionics and weapons of the "Archangel".
      1. PROXOR
        PROXOR 10 November 2020 11: 59
        -2
        I read articles inside and out. And your message is completely incomprehensible to me. Tell me please. How will the avionics help the archangel from at least ZS23-2 when he will work with cannon armament or Narami in a dive? Or do you want to tell me that the country. which scraped only on the screw Archangel, will use it exclusively with high-precision weapons ?! It's funny. It will also iron with bombs and bunks.
        1. Bongo
          10 November 2020 12: 18
          +2
          Quote: PROXOR
          I read articles inside and out. And your message is completely incomprehensible to me. Tell me please. How will the avionics help the archangel from at least ZS23-2 when he will work with cannon armament or Narami in a dive? Or do you want to tell me that the country. which scraped only on the screw Archangel, will use it exclusively with high-precision weapons ?! It's funny. It will also iron with bombs and bunks.

          What is ZS23-2, I don't know such a weapon No. Maybe a ZU-23? What is your military specialty? What do you even know about the ZU-23? Or do you want to say that a turboprop attack aircraft is an easier target than a combat helicopter? "Archangel" is not so cheap, those who are not capable of "scraping" will buy the Bushnye Mi-24.
          And after such comments, I have the impression that I am unable to convey information to readers, or not everyone is able to adequately perceive it. wassat
          Especially for you, here's what the article says:
          Perfect reconnaissance and search systems installed on the latest modification of the "Archangel" allow you to detect targets and destroy them with guided weapons, without entering the coverage area Short-range air defense system.
          This also applies to anti-aircraft installations.
          There is also this:
          The main emphasis in the creation of the Archangel BPA aircraft was placed on the use of guided weapons, and he does not carry small arms and cannons... In this respect, its capabilities are higher than that of the Air Tractor AT-802U. Six underwing hardpoints can carry up to 16 70-mm Cirit missiles with a laser guidance system, up to 12 AGM-114 Hellfire missiles, up to six JDAM or Paveway II / III / IV UABs.

          If you had read the previous part of the review devoted to "Super Tucano", you might not have been so funny. Weapons are chosen depending on the target and the expected opposition. Not a single A-29B in Colombia and Afghanistan has been lost to anti-aircraft fire.
          1. PROXOR
            PROXOR 10 November 2020 12: 53
            -3
            This is probably your maximum. Find and catch on to a typo and ABSOLUTELY ignore the second part of my answer. Another minus to you and to karma and here.
            SECOND MINUS is for the analysis of actions only in Afghanistan. Considering that the striped ones constantly keep the Apaches in the air, they will find the ZU23-2 before it can work.
            Good. Let's take the Syrian version. Syria bought the Archangel. There is no money for precision weapons for the bearded. Even the VKS iron the barmaley with ordinary FABs. What are the chances of surviving this "wunderwafe" from the fire from the ground.
            Yes, what am I telling you. Half a year ago, half-naked Houthis knocked Fu-15 from a ground installation converted to launch air-to-air missiles.
            It has long been necessary to understand that all sorts of rebels there have long come out of the ranks of half-naked with Kalash and RPG-7 made in China.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
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                2. Mister X
                  Mister X 10 November 2020 14: 24
                  +2
                  Quote: PROXOR
                  COMPLAINTS of the administration for going personal.

                  hi
                  Try to file a complaint with the UN.
                  And while waiting for an answer - learn the materiel.
                  They got into the habit of complaining ...
                  1. zyablik.olga
                    zyablik.olga 11 November 2020 14: 16
                    +3
                    Quote: Mister X

                    Try to file a complaint with the UN.
                    And while waiting for an answer - learn the materiel.
                    They got into the habit of complaining ...


                    Mikhail, hello!
                    Something has become inadequate for VOs, who first write outright nonsense, pull themselves out to provoke a conflict, and then rush to complain to the administration.
                    One clown also wrote to me today:
                    Quote: Shadow041
                    Your level is already clear. I do not think that someone will want to communicate further. If you cook cabbage soup the same way, you are useless

                    Laughed heartily! lol
                    1. Mister X
                      Mister X 11 November 2020 16: 47
                      +2
                      Quote: zyablik.olga
                      Mikhail, hello!

                      hi
                      Hello, Olenka!
                      Quote: zyablik.olga
                      Your level is already clear.

                      I hope you filed a complaint about it too wink
                      It's okay now ...
                      1. Bongo
                        11 November 2020 16: 50
                        +2
                        Quote: Mister X
                        I hope you filed a complaint against him too wink
                        It's okay now ...

                        Hello! Hope you feel better?
                        Olya is already asleep. And she did not complain about this clown. She just laughed.
                      2. Mister X
                        Mister X 11 November 2020 19: 44
                        +2
                        Quote: Bongo
                        Hello! Hope you feel better?

                        Hi!
                        No better, but no COVID bully
                        Quote: Bongo
                        And she did not complain about this clown.

                        Well, right.
                        For every sneeze you do not like it ...
                  2. KKND
                    KKND 12 November 2020 20: 43
                    +3
                    Quote: zyablik.olga
                    Something has become inadequate for VOs, who first write outright nonsense, pull themselves out to provoke a conflict, and then rush to complain to the administration.

                    Olga is now autumn, early November. As a person in the "topic" I say wassat
  • Baron pardus
    Baron pardus 10 November 2020 19: 52
    +3
    I've always been a supporter of old school stormtroopers, especially for things like fighting terrorists, smugglers, poachers, drug dealers and airborne border patrols. Everything new is well forgotten old. In Vietnam, the A-26 Invader twin-engine attack aircraft and A1 Skyrader single-engine attack aircraft distinguished themselves (I even had a Skyrader model at home in the USSR, scale 1:72), moreover, light A37 Dragonfly attack aircraft were used, and the Ov-10 Bronko twin-engine light attack aircraft. I don't think it will be difficult to launch the same Skyrader into production. Taking into account modern technologies, I think that the new Skyrader will be faster and more tenacious than the old ones. Well, 3600kg of combat load is very serious. Some kind of poaching schooner that enters the territorial waters and is engaged in poaching will be very offended when she gets on board something like a Maverick from such an attack aircraft.
    1. Mister X
      Mister X 11 November 2020 18: 11
      +3
      Quote: Baron Pardus
      I've always been a supporter of old school stormtroopers

      hi
      I am also a conservative.
      Not so long ago I fantasized about "modernization of the Il-10 attack aircraft" wink
      I came to the conclusion that another plane is needed (view from the cockpit, the weapon operator's seat, tandem crew position) ...
      Maybe the Skyrader is so outdated that it's easier to develop another aircraft?
  • Protos
    Protos 12 November 2020 16: 20
    -3
    Commercial feed for DShKM and ZU-23-2 wink
    Ukrainians are going to buy "Super Tucano" for "fighting the Russian army in Donbass" lol
    1. Protos
      Protos 12 November 2020 17: 48
      -3
      The neo-Nazi junta, which seized power in Ukraine, is seriously thinking about
      "Super Tucano: Are Brazilian Stormtroopers Effective for the War in Donbass?"

      "The Ukrainian army can be replenished with light turboprop attack aircraft EMB-314 Super Tucano A-29) from Brazil. Is the Brazilian Super Tucano a suitable option for the Ukrainian army, in particular for the conditions of the war in Donbas, where the pro-Russian forces have powerful air defense systems?

      "According to the President of Brazil, the Ukrainian side is interested in purchasing the already mentioned Super Tucano combat aircraft, as well as Embraer KC-390 military transports.
      The Brazilian president's tweet, along with reports from the Ukrainian Military Television about "familiarization flights," made us think seriously about the prospects for Super Tucano in the Ukrainian sky. "
      "Are" super toucans "suitable for the conditions of the war in Donbas?
      As for military observers, however, the question arises whether the Brazilian Super Tucano is a suitable option for the Ukrainian army.

      In particular, for the conditions of the war in the Donbass, where the pro-Russian forces have powerful air defense systems.
      "The machine was designed to fight partisans. And what kind of weapons are available to bandit formations - anti-aircraft machine guns, automatic cannons, maximum MANPADS. Therefore, Super Tucano, although it has a sufficiently high altitude, is clearly insufficient for actions against an echeloned in height air defense (air defense) - and this exactly what we see in the occupation corps in the Donbas, "writes military observer Mikhail Zhirokhov.

      "Not a single country in the world has experience in using turboprop machines against Russian air defense systems. So you have to write your own manuals - and as a rule, this is experience, and bloody experience," he adds.
      According to others, it is these aircraft that are effective for local wars. "
    2. Baron pardus
      Baron pardus 12 November 2020 20: 18
      +3
      Yeah shas. From what distance can the ZU-23-2 be able to work on an attack aircraft? And from what distance will such an anti-aircraft gun receive a Hellfire or is there a volley of NURSs? Do not confuse the Great Patriotic War with the present. It is much more difficult to hide the anti-aircraft gun now. IR cameras, radars and others like them. The Tucano is weakly armored, but with the proper equipment, it will detect and destroy MZA without even entering the affected area. Well, something like the A-1 Skyrader, so it will be even better, at least there is armor on it.
  • Protos
    Protos 12 November 2020 16: 27
    -3
    Quote: Tucan
    Quote: Sancho_SP
    Today it is a dead end.

    Those. turboprop attack aircraft dead end, and much slower and more vulnerable helicopters are not dead end? Have you read the first part of the article? In my opinion, the author has quite well revealed the advantages and disadvantages of all aircraft used against partisans.

    Helicopter tactics in its arsenal has a jump due to the terrain / trees and the ability to arrange carousels in pairs with continuous impact on targets, plus the ability to operate from any site!
    1. Baron pardus
      Baron pardus 12 November 2020 20: 22
      +3
      The turntable is slower, more vulnerable and more expensive to operate, and the turntables are SLOWER. A tree can also be sawed with a hacksaw, and nails can be hammered with an adjustable wrench. Nobody offers to replace the Mi28 with the Tucano. or A1 Skyrader. Turntables are against tanks, and for patrolling the border, fighting smugglers and small gangs, something like the A-1 Skyraider will work well. Are you going to send Mi-28 against the schooner of poachers fishing in the Russian territorial waters? A-1 will get there faster, cheaper, and it will be no worse to slap Pturs into a poacher's schooner.
      1. Protos
        Protos 12 November 2020 21: 08
        -3
        Quote: Baron Pardus
        Are you going to send Mi-28 against the schooner of poachers fishing in the Russian territorial waters? A-1 will get there faster, cheaper, and it will be no worse to slap Pturs into a poacher's schooner.

        And the inspection team from A1 can be dropped off, but a rescue operation can be carried out?
        And to shout into a megaphone "Stop the progress of the sons of bitches or now we will open fire to kill" and fire a cannon / machine gun in the direction of travel ?! bully
        You need to stop, not destroy! yes
        Yes, and if we usually send Mi-8MT \ Sh to the Black Sea Fleet.
        1. Baron pardus
          Baron pardus 12 November 2020 23: 40
          +3
          Well, let's turn to historical experience. Seaplanes quite calmly dropped the commands "follow to the cruiser" or "stop cars" to the transporters. Nobody canceled the radio on Skyrader or Tucano there. A line of cannons / machine guns ahead of the course of the A1 poaching galoshes can quite easily hit (4x20mm cannons are serious). To the schooner itself, or a suspicious convoy of trucks, too. To throw off the inflatable boat - too. And now attention, the question: Who will catch up with such a schooner of poachers faster, Skyraider with a maximum speed of 510 km / h and a cruising speed of 310 km / h or Mi8 with a maximum speed of 250 km / h. I repeat. These stormtroopers are not a replacement for turntables EVERYWHERE, but they are great for patrolling, intercepting and fighting every little thing. Although, if you hang that Ms. A1 or Tucano with Helfayers, then it can very upset a couple of tanks without going into the action zone of the short-range air defense system.
  • Protos
    Protos 12 November 2020 21: 00
    -3
    Quote: Baron Pardus
    From what distance can the ZU-23-2 be able to work on an attack aircraft? And from what distance will such an anti-aircraft gun receive the Hellfire or is there a volley of NURSs? Do not confuse the Great Patriotic War with the present. It is much more difficult to hide the anti-aircraft gun now. IR cameras, radars and others like them

    Radars-shmadars lol
    With proper skill, the calculation of the ZU-23-2 will reach 1,5 km in height and 2,5 km in range, while perfectly disguising itself and equipping false positions!
    You will run NURS from 1,3-3 km. that is, at the limit of the affected area.
    Expensive AGM-114 for each ZPU is expensive, and you bought a "Super Tukan" to fight on a budget.
    And Hellfire also requires target illumination, i.e. for some time you will be flying on a combat course and you can be caught by MZA points unnoticed by your reconnaissance wink
    By the way, it is much more difficult to shoot at the moving car Hellfire, but the car will not hit you, but it can distract attention.
    No, toucan-like - niche airplanes for fighting drug cartels and babaykas with small arms, combat patrolling, border control, special operations, etc.
    1. Baron pardus
      Baron pardus 12 November 2020 23: 46
      +3
      Well, I also talked about such operations against drug trafficking, poaching and smuggling, plus the patrol of the border and territorial waters. Nobody is going to send neither Tucano nor Skyrader against modern air defense systems such as Patriot. And what about UR. Helfair dear? Well, first of all, they can now shoot at 8 km. Secondly, if it is expensive, there are laser-guided versions of the Hydra 70 rocket. Much cheaper is one of the options, and there are many of them. So there is something to hang under the A1 and Tucano. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Attack_Guided_Rocket By the way AGM144L Hellfire Longbow does not require laser illumination.
  • the same doctor
    the same doctor 14 November 2020 22: 13
    +3
    Soon, the electronic filling of the UAV will cost no more than a million rubles ... For countries that produce it themselves. And where they put it: on a drone or a corn plant, or in general a disposable rocket, that unit will be the UAV.
    .
    You need to develop your electronics. World War II was the war of motors, the next will be the war of smartphones. Everything, of course, is not easy. The machine for ultraviolet photolithography, for example, has been in development for 26 years. And this is in Holland. They cook them there every year on a new one, can you imagine how many projects are being implemented there at the same time. money has been invested for decades. Although it is good if half of the projects are successful. But! A completely working sample can be made on the technological basis of the late 80s.
    1. Protos
      Protos 17 November 2020 17: 26
      0
      By the way, AGM144L Hellfire Longbow costs twice as much as usual and requires a separate radar wink
  • Protos
    Protos 17 November 2020 17: 14
    -2
    Quote: Baron Pardus
    Well, I also talked about such operations against drug trafficking, poaching and smuggling, plus the patrol of the border and territorial waters.

    Tucano will still call in helicopters with cavalry or a search party yes
    Yes, and you cannot attach a winch to Tukanopodovye, you definitely cannot throw off a boat, and the cost of an hour of flight is not radically different from the Mi-8MT.
    Toucan-like ones will die out with the arrival of a UAV like our OrionM in this niche, with 60 hours of fuel yes
  • Pavel73
    Pavel73 27 November 2020 11: 38
    0
    Well, well ... Practically the reincarnation of the IL-2! :)