Military Review

Why Ukraine rebelled against the Polish landlord

113
Why Ukraine rebelled against the Polish landlord
Monument to Bohdan Khmelnitsky in Kiev


Polish Ukraine


Little Russia (Kiev region, Chernigov region) was a prosperous region. Farms and villages were decorated with rich gardens, the fields brought big harvests. Rivers, lakes and forests provided game and fish. The term "outskirts-ukraina" meant the outskirts. Kievan Rus in the XVI-XVII centuries was the outskirts of two great powers of Eastern Europe - the Commonwealth and the Russian kingdom. In Russia, this term was used to designate many areas. For example, there was Russian Ukraine - the southern regions, Siberian Ukraine - the land beyond the Urals. Polish Ukraine is the former Kiev, Chernigov-Severskaya, Galicia-Volyn and Belaya Rus. These lands were at first part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Russian - the Russian state. Then Russian Lithuania underwent Catholicization and Polonization (Westernization). In 1569, the Union of Lublin was concluded between the Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, which marked the beginning of the federal state known as the Commonwealth. After that, the processes of Westernization of the Western Russian lands accelerated noticeably. The current citizens of Ukraine and Belarus at that time considered and called themselves Russians. There were no fundamental differences between the Russians of Minsk, Kiev, Moscow and Ryazan. Only ethnographic features, like local dialects. "Ukrainians" and "Belarusians" were created as "ethnic groups" in a directive order only after 1917.

Poland, and then Rzeczpospolita, having received the resources of Lithuanian Rus, had every opportunity to become the leading power in Eastern Europe. During the Russian Troubles, Polish rulers laid claim to the Moscow table. The richest and most populous regions of Russia were subordinated to them. The Polish elite could create a common development project for the Poles (western glades) and Rus-Russians, attractive to the Slavic peoples. However, the Polish nobility chose a different path, disastrous for the state and the people. In Poland, a noble "republic" was established - the rule of the powerful nobility. The nobles, lords and gentry (nobles) enjoyed almost unlimited freedom. The main state body was the Diet. Deputies to it were elected by the gentry at local seimiks. They elected kings, constantly expanding their capabilities and privileges. Received the right of "free veto" (lat. Liberum veto). Adoption of the law, any decision required "unanimity". Each deputy could fail the bill or the discussion of the issue, or even close the Diet, opposing it.

Slavery


For the people, the "freedom" of the gentry turned into a disaster. As a result, slavery was established in Poland, in fact, in the most cruel way in Europe. The whole people was divided into a stratum of "chosen" (gentlemen and nobles) and slaves (slaves-slaves). Only the gentry had the exclusive right to own land and real estate. Not only serfs, but also free peasants fell into complete dependence on the masters, who had the right to trial and punishment in their possessions. The landowner established the order. In Galicia, corvee was daily. In the Dnieper region, a peasant with his horse worked for the owner three days a week. The collection from the population was the highest in Europe. In Russia "tenth money" (tithe) was an extraordinary tax, in Poland - an annual one. Also, peasants paid for the ownership and grazing of livestock, from hives, for fishing and gathering wild plants, for grinding, at the conclusion of marriage and the birth of a child, etc. The owner could simply appoint one-time payments for any important occasion - war, holiday, etc.

The people were sucked dry. At the same time, the funds did not go to the development of the state. They were spent on luxury and pleasure. On aimless and ruinous wars, strife. The magnates and lords bathed in gold, burned their lives. We had large-scale feasts, balls and hunts. Wealth came easily, also descended. The middle and small gentry tried to follow the nobles. For ordinary people, this turned into a difficult yoke, a lot of blood. The life of a commoner was worth nothing, any nobleman could easily humiliate him, rob, maim and even kill him. Polish slaves in their rights were on a par with Turkish or Venetian slave rowers in galleys, convicts.

The pans subdued the voivodeships and the elders. The posts of governors and chiefs became hereditary. Most cities, unlike Western Europe, also fell under the rule of feudal lords. So, in Kiev and Bratslav provinces, out of 323 cities and towns, 261 belonged to magnates. They had the right to duty-free trade and a host of other privileges, such as distilling, brewing, ore mining, etc. Panamas were either too lazy to deal with the economy, or above their "dignity". So they hired stewards. Practically the only educated stratum inclined to trade and economic activity in Poland were Jews. In addition, the Jews were strangers to local residents, collusion and indulgences were excluded. As a result, both parties benefited. The nobility was messing around, having fun and getting money for it. The Jews squeezed all the juices out of the people, forgetting themselves. The people found themselves under double oppression. Accordingly, they hated both the Polish lords and their managers.

Cossacks


Another misfortune of Little Russia (as the Greek authors called Kievan Rus) were the Tatar raids. The Crimean horde with its raids and campaigns disturbed not only Moscow Russia, but also the Commonwealth. The king did not have a permanent large army, the means to build fortified lines on the border (as the Russian sovereigns did). Therefore, it was impossible to repel the rapid raids of the Crimeans under such orders. The Cossacks were the only defenders of the people. They lived in Dnieper towns and villages, intercepted Crimean detachments, freed prisoners, and attacked the enemy themselves. The border governors of the Vishnevets, Ostrog, Zaslavsky (Western Russian princely and boyar families) organized and armed the Cossacks, having received a serious force for the defense of their vast possessions.

Under Ivan IV, the Dnieper Cossacks recognized themselves as subjects of the Terrible Tsar. But King Stefan Batory was able to split the Cossacks. Created a registry. The Cossacks enrolled in it were listed in the royal service and received a salary. The rest of the Cossacks, who were not included in the register, were transferred to the position of ordinary peasants. Many did not accept, went further south, to Zaporozhye, created a Sich (spotting) there. It became the center of the "free" Cossacks. She lived by her own laws. Until the end of the XNUMXth century, the Cossacks were guided by Moscow. But then they managed to lure them over to the side of the Polish king. In the Time of Troubles and in the Russian-Polish wars, they fought on the side of the king. Also, the Cossacks restrained the expansion and aggression of Turkey and the Crimean Khanate. As a result, they turned out to be the only military organized force that was able to resist the complete enslavement of Ukraine.

Polish yoke


At first, serfdom, slaveholding systems in Poland were much tougher than in the Russian outskirts. In Ukraine, the people in force historical circumstances he lived more at ease. But in the 1596th century, the situation in Polish Ukraine changed dramatically. In XNUMX, the Brest Church Union was adopted - the decision of a number of bishops of the Kiev Metropolis, headed by Metropolitan Mikhail Rogoza, to accept the Catholic doctrine and transfer to the subordination of the Pope while preserving the worship of the Byzantine tradition. Catholics in alliance with the Uniates and the Polish authorities launched an offensive against the Orthodox. The Uniates took over the best, richest churches and monasteries. Churches in which Orthodox priests who did not accept the union served were closed, the priests themselves were deprived of parishes, and only Uniate priests were allowed to conduct divine services. Orthodox petty bourgeois (townspeople) were not admitted to the city magistrates, and artisans were excluded from the workshops. For the sake of a career and material well-being, the Western Russian Orthodox nobility accepted Catholicism, became pollinated.

Pan's oppression has increased significantly. Previously, the gentry of the border territories had to reckon with the Russians in one way or another. Poles and Russians together opposed the predatory Crimean horde. The Pans provided great privileges to fugitive peasants in order to settle their vast but empty lands. And the border nobles, magnates and lords themselves were Russian by blood and faith. However, the situation has changed. The tycoons with sabers and lances of the Cossacks, through the labor of the peasants-settlers, amassed whole "kingdoms in the kingdom" They were the largest landowners of the Commonwealth. Vishnevetsky had his own army, owned 40 thousand peasant households in the Poltava region; Zaslavsky owned 80 cities and towns, over 2700 villages; Konetspolsky - 170 cities and towns, 740 villages in the Bratslav region; Zholkevsky - most of the Lviv region. They were real kings in their domain. The connection of the West Russian nobility with the people was interrupted. The magnates of Russian origin completely became polonized, converted to Catholicism. Benefits for the common people are over. The same procedures were introduced as in the central part of Poland.

Ideological and religious, national and socio-economic oppression (in fact, the most severe colonization) led to a series of peasant uprisings and Cossack revolts. The Polish authorities and lords mistakenly reacted to these "signs" and aggravated the situation. Instead of a gradual, "amicable" integration of the Russian outskirts into Poland, they responded with sword and fire. Punitive expeditions, genocide of Russians. The uprisings were literally drowned in blood. Whole villages were carved and burned out. Neither women, nor children, nor old people were spared. At the same time, at first, the rebellious peasants and Cossacks did not intend to separate from the Commonwealth. They still believed in the "good king" and "bad lords". They sent delegations, letters, asked to soften their situation, to protect Orthodoxy by law, to increase the register of Cossacks, to enable Orthodox nobles, the Metropolitan, Cossacks to enter the Sejm, etc. That is, to make Ukraine a full-fledged part of Poland.

However, all attempts of the Western Russian elite to settle normally within the framework of Poland (similar dreams of modern "Ukrainians" about the European Union and NATO) were rejected by the Polish authorities, magnates and Catholics. In Warsaw, they decided to simply destroy the Cossacks, the Russian faith, and suppress any attempts of resistance by terror and genocide. Make Kievan Rus a colony of Poland forever, following the example of the Western powers that seized overseas possessions in America, Africa and Asia. The people responded with a national liberation war. He nominated a talented and ardent leader - Bogdan Khmelnitsky. With a lot of blood, through battles, massacres and fires, the Western Russian lands returned to the united Russian state. A different path promised the complete extermination of Russianness (Russian language, faith and culture) in Little Russia. It was the people who chose the path of struggle and preservation.
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/
113 comments
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  1. svp67
    svp67 4 November 2020 06: 27
    +7
    There were plenty of reasons for that uprising, but the reason was that the number of "registered" Cossacks was reduced, which violated the rights of the nobility of the Little Russian Cossacks ...
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 4 November 2020 07: 41
      +7
      Little Russia (Kiev region, Chernigov region) was a prosperous region.


      From the first lines, and "not in the right place"...

      With what interests, the author, Russian from epic times Chernigov, became Little Russia in the described period?

      Chernigov is a primordially historically Russian city, together with the adjacent Chernigov region, in fact, like Kharkov with its Slobozhanshchina.
      1. svp67
        svp67 4 November 2020 07: 48
        +9
        Quote: Insurgent
        With what interests, the author, Russian from epic times Chernigov, became Little Russia in the described period?

        Yes, during the described period it was the Chernigov Voivodeship (Polish: Województwo czernihowskie) - an administrative unit of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth as part of the Lesser Poland province of the Kingdom of Poland
        Quote: Insurgent
        Chernigov is a primordially historically Russian city,

        More than Russian, it is one of the origins of Russian civilization, the capital city of Severshchina. Novgorod-Seversky alone, from where Prince Igor began his campaign, with his regiment, which is
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 4 November 2020 07: 54
          +6
          Quote: svp67

          More than Russian, it is one of the origins of Russian civilization, the capital city of Severshchina. Novgorod-Seversky alone, from where Prince Igor began his campaign, with his regiment, which is

          That's it yes .. Tore apart Mother Russia.
          During the period of the USSR, this gap was not so obvious, but after the tragedy of the collapse of a single country, the scale of the alienation of its ancestral territories from Russia became painfully marked.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 4 November 2020 08: 10
            +4
            ..... after the tragedy ....
            the destruction of the USSR, nullified the conquests and achievements of ancestral diplomacy for more than 300 years. That's what.
        2. Insurgent
          Insurgent 4 November 2020 08: 17
          +5
          Quote: svp67
          Yes, during the described period it was the Chernigov Voivodeship (Polish: Województwo czernihowskie) - an administrative unit of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth as part of the Lesser Poland province of the Kingdom of Poland

          The period of occupation does not count. We do not call the same Chernigov during its occupation by the Germans in the Second World War - German, and we do not attribute it to the Reich as a historical and administrative unit?

          For Chernigov, his "Polish period" is a historical moment, Russian history is eternity.
      2. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 4 November 2020 10: 42
        +4
        Quote: Insurgent
        Russian from the epic times of Chernigov ...

        In "epic times" there was no division of the Russian ethnos into three branches. The division of the Russian people into three branches took place in the Middle Ages during the seizure of Russian lands by the Polish-Lithuanian state.
        1. CSKA
          CSKA 4 November 2020 11: 18
          -6
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          during the seizure of Russian lands by the Polish-Lithuanian state.

          The main division was made in 1917 and not by the Poles. For 300 years, they failed to make such a division.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 4 November 2020 11: 42
            +4
            Quote: CSKA
            The main division was made in 1917 and not by the Poles. For 300 years, they failed to make such a division.

            Justify your nonsense with documents, if you can, of course. Or do you think the Western Russian lands did not fall under the influence or direct occupation of Western states? Was it not in the Middle Ages that the Ukrainian and Belarusian languages ​​began to form? Was it not then that the Orthodox Church experienced the greatest pressure from the RCC? Was it not then that the Germanization of the Slavs began to take place? Before you write Prigozhin nonsense, you would first familiarize yourself with the historical documents of that era. Tell me, what did the USSR personally do you badly? I understand why your curators, who received their assets as a result of criminal privatization, hate him, but why do you personally hate him?
            1. CSKA
              CSKA 4 November 2020 13: 02
              -7
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Justify your nonsense with documents, if you can, of course.

              How are you, is it okay with logic? In 1917, the Bolsheviks came to power, they created the Ukrainian SSR and the BSSR. They laid in the USSR Constitution an article about withdrawal from it. They gave Russian lands to pseudo countries. What other documentary do you need? They yelled about the Ukrainian and Belarusian peoples. They carried out Ukrainization.
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Or do you think the Western Russian lands did not fall under the influence or direct occupation of Western states?

              We got it. You just enlightened us all here. Only here neither Poland nor Austria-Hungary created the states of Ukraine and Belarus. And no amount of polonization and Ukrainization under the Austrians did as much as the Soviet government.
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Was it not then that the Orthodox Church experienced the greatest pressure from the RCC?

              Why are you bringing religion everywhere? The fact that the French and Italians of the same faith do not make them less different nations.
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              That is, did the Germanization of the Slavs begin to take place?

              What kind of Germanization? The Austrians did not do any Germanization, they tried to hammer into the heads of the Russians of Galicia that they were a fictional people - Ukrainians.
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Before you write Prigozhin nonsense, you would first familiarize yourself with the historical documents of that era.

              What is prigogine for the devil? I haven't read it. Themselves would have bothered to read at least something besides their communist nonsense and agitation.
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Tell me, what did the USSR personally do you badly?

              Personally, I have nothing and I regret that it collapsed, and that reforms were not carried out there on the Chinese model. And it fell apart because of such narrow-minded, incapable of thinking, people like you. The party consisted of such dogmatists. Not able to think rationally, but capable only of exalting everything and everyone, and unable to admit their mistakes. It was people like you who led this great state to collapse. And now you sit at your computers and try to exalt everything that was done in the USSR. But not everything was so smooth there.
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              I understand why your curators, who received their assets as a result of criminal privatization, hate him,

              Well it started. Nothing significant to say, nonsense begins about curators and the hand of the West. Well, yes, Mordashev and Deripaska supervise me personally, and Lisin sponsors me.
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 4 November 2020 14: 00
                +5
                Quote: CSKA
                In 1917, the Bolsheviks came to power, they created the Ukrainian SSR and the BSSR. They laid in the USSR Constitution an article about withdrawal from it. They gave Russian lands to pseudo countries.

                If you did better in school, you would know in what conditions the Bolsheviks came to power. May I remind you about the centrifugal processes associated with the decay of the CMB.
                Quote: CSKA
                Why are you bringing religion everywhere? The fact that the French and Italians of the same faith do not make them less different nations.

                Maybe you are familiar with the term "Orthodox culture", maybe it is not very scientific, but to understand the processes of destruction of the culture of Ukrainians and Belarusians in the Polish state will go. It would also be nice for you to learn about the "oppression" of the Little Russians on religious grounds.
                .
                Quote: CSKA
                What kind of Germanization?

                Read at least about the city that used to be called Yuryev, this is Germanization.
                Quote: CSKA
                they are fictional people - Ukrainians

                Do you consider Ukrainians and Belarusians to be fictional peoples?
                Quote: CSKA
                And he fell apart because of such narrow-minded, incapable of thinking, people like you. The party consisted of such dogmatists. Not able to think rationally, but capable only of exalting everything and everyone ...

                It fell apart because of the betrayal of the party elite, because of its greed and desire to "privatize" what does not belong to them.
                Quote: CSKA
                It was people like you who led this great state to collapse.

                No, people like us did not understand what was happening. And no one says that the USSR was an ideal state, however, it was incommensurably closer to the "ideal state for the majority" than the current RF.
                Quote: CSKA
                Well it started. Nothing significant to say, nonsense begins about curators and the hand of the West. Well, yes, Mordashev and Deripaska supervise me personally, and Lisin sponsors me.

                Then for what reason do your posts justify the course the current RF is following?
              2. Xnumx vis
                Xnumx vis 4 November 2020 21: 10
                -1
                Quote: CSKA
                ... Nothing significant to say, nonsense begins about curators and the hand of the West. Well, yes, Mordashev and Deripaska supervise me personally, and Lisin sponsors me.

                A plus . and more ++++++++++! hi
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 4 November 2020 07: 53
      -9
      Small Tartary was on the maps of the 17th century, Cherkassia was, Nogais were, Zaporozhye Sich was marked on the maps, Russia Chervonnaya, Russia Black were also.
      Ukraine ... -was on some maps. But Ukraine has never been within the borders in which it is now. In general, Cherkasy needs to be restored, not Donbas and Lugansk, but Cherkassia, so that they would remember that they are Cossacks.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 4 November 2020 08: 11
        +6
        Quote: Bar1
        In general, Cherkasy needs to be restored, not Donbass and Lugansk, but Cherkassia, so that they would remember that they are Cossacks.

        To begin with, it would not be bad to understand that Donbass (in Russian) is spelled with two "C" (in movi with one), and Lugansk is - Donetsk pool, its integral part.

        To remember that the Cossacks? So they remember, in a peculiar way yes
        A grandmother, one from Zaporozhye, was broadcasting that the DNR would just stick around to them, so - "our cossacks will quickly chop them with sabers".
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 4 November 2020 09: 31
          -9
          Quote: Insurgent
          For a start, it would be nice to understand that Donbass (in Russian) is spelled with two "C" (in movi with one), and Lugansk is the Donetsk basin, its integral part

          if you are asked why donbas has two s, then you will not answer, you, as not using your understanding, of which there are many, it will be impossible to answer such a question.
          The fact that this is, as usual, borrowing by fasmer is not immediately necessary.

          then one grandmother told you, this is a good source of information for you, but not for me.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 4 November 2020 09: 45
            +2
            Quote: Bar1
            if you are asked why donbas has two s, then you will not answer, you, as not using your understanding, of which there are many, it will be impossible to answer such a question.
            The fact that this is, as usual, borrowing by fasmer is not immediately necessary.

            then one grandmother told you, this is a good source of information for you, but not for me.


            Write a comment at least a little more competently - we will discuss both understanding and borrowing yes
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 4 November 2020 10: 58
              -6
              Quote: Insurgent
              Write a comment at least a little more competently - we will discuss both understanding and borrowing

              I do not accept a mentoring tone, do you want to understand? -Your business.
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 08: 11
        +4
        Timur, don't get involved in a showdown today for God's sake! With lyakhami not sorted out, and here you are with tartars.
      3. Alexander Suvorov
        Alexander Suvorov 4 November 2020 08: 16
        21
        Bar1 (Timur)
        Small Tartary on maps of the 17th century was
        On what cards, on those that besides fool Nobody in the world recognizes "alternatively gifted" ?!
        In general, Cherkasy needs to be restored, not Donbass and Lugansk, but Cherkassia, so that they remember that they are Cossacks.
        What nonsense? If you already remembered the Cossacks, they basically organized a get-together at the Sich. And then the Zaporozhye Cossacks are the only ones in Ingushetia that are so tired of the tsars with their betrayals and the choice of "position" that they (or rather, she) decided to castrate him completely, that is, to disband and disperse! And she did the right thing for the Cossacks of Russia have always been more harm than good.
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 4 November 2020 09: 29
          -1
          "On what cards, on those that no one in the world recognizes except fool" alternatively gifted "?!"
          So the maps were drawn by alternatives and abandoned with the help of a machine time in the past? Or do you have another explanation for their appearance?
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 4 November 2020 11: 05
            -8
            Quote: ee2100
            "On what cards, on those that no one in the world recognizes except fool" alternatively gifted "?!"
            So the maps were drawn by alternatives and abandoned with the help of a machine time in the past? Or do you have another explanation for their appearance?

            in English there is a synonym for full-this is a stupid, as it is very similar to Russian-stupid, is not it?
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 4 November 2020 11: 29
              +1
              Not good at linguistics. I think that the word stupid has Slavic roots, and its other meaning "blunt" was adopted by the Anglo-Saxons laughing
              1. Bar1
                Bar1 4 November 2020 11: 45
                -4
                Quote: ee2100
                Not good at linguistics. I think that the word stupid has Slavic roots, and its other meaning "blunt" was adopted by the Anglo-Saxons laughing

                rate
                -tell -interpret
                -shell-sink-slit
                - wake up - wake up - forever up
                -kill-kill-freeze
                -lake-lake-lapping
                -ost-east, cropped
                -cash-cash-cost-payment
                - trophy trail
                -site-place-say (Kyrgyz) -place
                -dear-expensive
                -script-squeak
                -super-over, the letter v is being replaced by, the letter u
                -scout-scout-se / it is kut / hidden
                this is just what I have collected, but one where the English language is very similar to the Russian and Turkic languages, the dictionary was noted by others, not just me.
                1. ee2100
                  ee2100 4 November 2020 15: 28
                  -1
                  You've already gotten pretty bad! crying In fact, there are many common common root words with similar meanings in different languages. There is a whole science that should deal with these problems, but strictly certain conclusions are drawn from the similarity of the same words and meanings - borrowings! And all the rest are from the evil one i.e. alternative and they are not accepted.
                  There are a lot of materials on the network about this, but official science immediately hangs a certain kind of stigma on them, without explaining the reasons.
                  As with cards. There are maps and quite detailed, but some of the inscriptions on them do not like that and that's it. And this is no longer a document.
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 4 November 2020 16: 33
                    +5
                    Quote: ee2100
                    There is a whole science that should deal with these problems, but strictly certain conclusions are drawn from the similarity of the same words and meanings - borrowings!

                    There is such a science, called historical linguistics, the basics of which I even tried to present to Bar in a simplified version. But this is useless.
                    As for words from different languages ​​that have similar phonetics and meaning, their origin may be different. Borrowing is just one of the ways such words arise. Many similar words from different languages ​​simply have one ancestor from a common parent language. Considering that all European languages ​​have such a common proto-language, the similarity of some words is not surprising at all.
                    Our alternatively gifted comrades do not admit one thing - that all modern European languages ​​are similar and unlike their proto-language equally and differ from each other, as a rule, as long as they have separated from each other.
                    In addition, one should not forget that some consonances in different languages ​​may coincide in meaning and purely by chance. There is a hypothesis according to which the first words of the most primitive first proto-language were ordinary onomatopoeia, that is, the names of objects, animals, natural phenomena imitated the sounds they produce. Therefore, coincidences in different, even completely unrelated languages ​​are possible and there are such examples.
                    Quote: ee2100
                    official science immediately hangs on them a certain kind of stigma, without explaining the reasons

                    Nothing like this. An explanation of the reasons can always be found, one has only to worry about the search. As for the maps so beloved by Bar, compare their topographic accuracy with what we actually have. The degree of their toponymic reliability is at least not higher, however, our alternatives consider precisely the toponymic information set forth in these maps to be the ultimate truth. Why don't they try to prove that the rivers flowed in the wrong place and in the wrong direction, and the seas were larger and the continents were smaller? I do not know. smile
                    1. ee2100
                      ee2100 4 November 2020 16: 55
                      -4
                      In the first part, you wrote everything correctly, the only "purely random" matches are a little knocked out. Those. either these are not purely random coincidences, or this is a pattern.
                      In the second part, according to the maps, you cannot compare old and modern maps (you have "As for the maps so beloved by Bar, compare their topographic accuracy with what we actually have.")
                      It is necessary to compare cards of the same time.
                      But the question of toponymy remains. You didn’t answer it, but went somewhere in the "mountains and seas".
                      1. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 4 November 2020 19: 23
                        +4
                        Quote: ee2100
                        But the question of toponymy remains.

                        As far as the maps are reliable in the topographic sense, they are also in the toponymic sense. Most of the maps were drawn according to the stories of travelers and are nothing more than a reflection of the ideas of their authors about the world. Precisely representations, nothing more. Therefore, with the receipt of reliable information about the world, the Fomenkovo ​​Tartary is being pushed further and further to the east - to the place where people who provide information for cartographers have not yet reached. And then, when civilization reached the Pacific Ocean, Tartary disappears completely.
                        In addition, the same geographical features in different languages ​​and at different times are called differently. The names of an unfamiliar language are distorted during transmission, also distorted when read from a foreign language (a classic example for the Russian language is Texas) - hence the numerous names that, when freely handling sounds and letters, can be interpreted as you like.
                        I assure you, there is a completely intelligible scientific answer to any question that Bar and his ilk "pose". All their "evidence" is either a lie, or falsification, or have a different, scientifically based interpretation. It is enough just to ask what science knows on a particular topic.
                        At first I tried to disassemble them, but I quickly realized that this process is both too laborious and completely useless - not in the horse feed. Now I do this sometimes, for the sake of entertainment and as an exception, smearing the same Bara with a thin layer ...
                        If you want, I can make one more small exception for you and, in order not to be unfounded, I will analyze some example of your choice, but only one - it's a pity to spend a lot of time on this nonsense. I don't promise right away, but within a few days - no question, I will. smile
                        In return, promise that you will analyze the rest of the examples that prove, in your opinion, the fidelity or, at least, the possible admissibility of Fomenkov's theories, with the same thoroughness and tell me what conclusions you have come to. smile
                      2. Bar1
                        Bar1 4 November 2020 20: 26
                        -2
                        Quote: Trilobite Master
                        I assure you, there is a completely intelligible scientific answer to any question that Bar and his ilk "pose". All their "evidence" is either a lie, or falsification, or have a different, scientifically based interpretation. It is enough just to ask what science knows on a particular topic.

                        he assures me: "... just take it for granted, they are, somewhere there is this evidence, but just as usual there is no time to deal with them"
                      3. ee2100
                        ee2100 4 November 2020 20: 56
                        -1
                        "As reliable as the maps are in the topographic sense, they are also in the toponymic sense." Your quote. Is this your axiom?
                        You cannot compare different concepts! It's like "whoever eats with a knife and a fork is the smarter one."
                        I am not asking you to refute anything. I am not a supporter of Fomenko and Nosovsky, but the fact that the maps of different authors contain the same toponymy that is undesirable to the official history is a fact.
                        You will not write down Piri-Reis and his maps, which depict America (southern and northern) and part of Antarctica, in the alternatives? And all this before their official opening. There is information that he used cards of the BC performance.
                        Not convinced. And not because I am so stubborn, but because there are no verifiable reasons on your part. Yes, over time, the "terrible" word Tartary disappeared on the cards. Fact!
                        Reading your comments, I see that you are also an adherent of logic. But in the question of toponymy, there is no logic from your side.
                        As usual, we remain with our "interests".
                        It's a pity that professional historians do not participate in our discussions, otherwise this is so, at the level of chatter in the kitchen!
                2. Bar1
                  Bar1 4 November 2020 16: 53
                  -2
                  Quote: ee2100
                  In fact, there are many common common root words with similar meanings in different languages. There is a whole science that should deal with these problems, but strictly certain conclusions are drawn from the similarity of the same words and meanings - borrowings!


                  There are many similar words, now everyone can see it, but borrowing from where? In our opinion, so borrowing from us and further.
                  The fact that there was one type of proto-language is also correct, only the language was Russian. Because Etruscan is read in Russian and Sanskrit is read in Russian, but it is not read in other languages, so everything comes not from Indo-European, but from Russian. correctly.
                  They now speak as soon as I, for example, Dons around the world counted several pieces, so now Don is no longer a Russian word, but every kind of cosmopolitan and even etymology has already been brought here.
                  1. ee2100
                    ee2100 4 November 2020 17: 05
                    -1
                    Many agree with the statement about the proto-language. But what he was naturally it will cause a dispute.
                    About Erusian and Russian. Yes, many claim to be reading, but the same text read is interpreted differently.
                    There is also information about Sanskrit about a great similarity with Russian, but this does not mean that Russian is ancient and is a proto-language.
                    1. Bar1
                      Bar1 4 November 2020 17: 20
                      -1
                      there is research by 19th century authors
                      in Sanskrit
                      -Hilferding "On the affinity of the Slavic and Sanskrit". Hilferding was a Slavophile at one time and even with this surname.
                      https://www.kramola.info/books/letopisi-proshlogo/o-srodstve-yazyka-slavyanskago-s-sanskritskim
                      -Zharnikova Ph.D. On the Internet, you can find many links to Zharnikova.
                      -Guseva, Doctor of History the same asserted that Sanskrit comes from Russian.
                      in Etruscan.
                      -Volansky
                      -Chertkov
                      it was they who composed the Etruscan alphabet and read Etruscan at one time.
                      If there is an official refutation, then it is necessary to consider it, but something I have not heard that these authors would be refuted.
                    2. Bar1
                      Bar1 4 November 2020 19: 51
                      0
                      Quote: ee2100
                      Many agree with the statement about the proto-language. But what he was naturally it will cause a dispute.
                      About Erusian and Russian. Yes, many claim to be reading, but the same text read is interpreted differently.
                      There is also information about Sanskrit about a great similarity with Russian, but this does not mean that Russian is ancient and is a proto-language.

                      watched your video. A few moments.
                      -Firstly. Klyosov with his DNA genealogy, let's just put it mildly, is not a scientist. Nosovsky, as he said that Klyosov was invited to Moscow State University and there he was pinned to the wall. It turned out that the dating of his haplotypes is not independent, this means that his DNA genealogy is not a science, i.e. Klyosov is just another propagandist in the information field.
                      -Secondly. Philology is such a branch of knowledge in which I have long ceased to believe, sorry non-Russian scientists. Everyone is trying to pull the blanket towards their nationality. This linguist, together with Klyosov, talked about the Turkic language and all the rest of the program, and mention Russian again forgot. What kind of scientist is he? He is a typical academic leaven, without any scientific courage. in the channel, together with the crowd and with a multi-colored flag in a heap of peoples.
                      For example, they talked about the language of the Scythians. But from the Scythian there was no writing left, except for the names mentioned by the Greeks and on this basis to say that the Scythian language is a Persian language?
                      True, Klyosov touched upon such a story. When the linguist Abaev was studying the Scythian language, the statement that the Scythians were Persians was approved by Comrade. Stalin: I didn’t know. This is the story.
                    3. ee2100
                      ee2100 4 November 2020 20: 52
                      -1
                      We talked with you about the Etruscan language and its understanding, and the fact that Klesov did not mention Russian in the video, like many other languages, was in the background of the discussion plan.
                      You can treat Klesov, or rather his paleogenetics, whatever you like, but no one canceled genetics. Western archaeologists and historians use it to its fullest. True, including for different purposes.
                      There are a lot of mysteries in history, especially with regards to Russia, and there is no point in shitting .. pooping among ourselves when our views on some historical facts coincide.
                3. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 4 November 2020 20: 07
                  +7
                  Quote: Bar1
                  and Sanskrit is read in Russian, but in other languages ​​it is not read

                  Here is Sanskrit for you, in Russian letters (whatever it was more convenient for you):
                  "vihaya kaman yah sarvan
                  pumamsh charati nihsprihah
                  nirmamo nirahankarah
                  sa shantim adhigacchati
                  esha brahmi sthitih partha
                  nainam prapya vimuhyati
                  sthitvasyam anta-kale 'pi
                  brahma-nirvanam ricchati
                  arjuna uvaca
                  jyayasi chet karmanas te
                  mata buddhir janardana
                  tat karmani ghore mam
                  niyojayasi kesava "
                  I hope you, with ease, will understand the meaning of what has been said, as well as the meaning of each word, and enlighten us, sad "tradiks", from which Russian words all these Sanskrit ones originated.
                  Preferably in this format:
                  1 - General translation.
                  2 - Translation of each word, with proof of origin from the corresponding Russian.
                  We are waiting, sir!
            2. Hantengri
              Hantengri 4 November 2020 19: 38
              +5
              Quote: Bar1
              -scout-scout-se / it is kut / hidden

              Dear Bar, I would explain to you what it means: "kut", yes they will be banned, fly in.
    3. Bar1
      Bar1 4 November 2020 09: 32
      -4
      Quote: Alexander Suvorov
      Bar1 (Timur)
      Small Tartary on maps of the 17th century was
      On what cards, on those that besides fool Nobody in the world recognizes "alternatively gifted" ?!
      In general, Cherkasy needs to be restored, not Donbass and Lugansk, but Cherkassia, so that they remember that they are Cossacks.
      What nonsense? If you already remembered the Cossacks, they basically organized a get-together at the Sich. And then the Zaporozhye Cossacks are the only ones in Ingushetia that are so tired of the tsars with their betrayals and the choice of "position" that they (or rather, she) decided to castrate him completely, that is, to disband and disperse! And she did the right thing for the Cossacks of Russia have always been more harm than good.

      those who do not look in the section of history of medieval maps need to be killed on the spot with a slingshot.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 10: 28
        +2
        You must be able to read these Maps and know the history of their appearance!
        Example of the Riphean Mountains, read about cartographic anecdotes of that time !!!
        “The Swedes discovered the Riphean Mountains of Herodotus on the Stone Belt. The first expedition was organized at the behest of Tsar Peter. And many scientists took part in that expedition. 20 thousand souls. "
        It's not even funny today!
        But as a result of the war, the map of the Tobolsk artist, the architect of the boyar's son Remezov, surfaced in Europe!
        Write where the captured Swedes messed up? Or compare yourself with the original !!!
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 4 November 2020 11: 02
          -4
          tartary is written on the cards, will you read how Rybakov is the golden horde?
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 4 November 2020 12: 13
            +3
            Quote: Bar1
            tartary is written on the cards, will you read how Rybakov is the golden horde?

            1. Bar1
              Bar1 4 November 2020 13: 57
              -5
              Well, Yulin there, it says Tartary, and he says the Golden Horde, although the Golden Horde is not written. Who are you trying to deceive?
  2. aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 4 November 2020 11: 44
    +6
    Quote: Bar1
    so that they remember that they are Cossacks

    Cossacks, this is not a nationality, but a service class. Today this service class does not exist.
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 4 November 2020 11: 52
      -6
      Quote: aleksejkabanets
      Quote: Bar1
      so that they remember that they are Cossacks

      Cossacks, this is not a nationality, but a service class. Today this service class does not exist.

      this is what the Romanov history says. In fact, the Cossacks are the people, and a huge people, from the Danube to the Far East. It has all the signs of a people, its own language is what is now called "Ukrainian", it has its own huge culture, it is basically the culture of the steppe and nomads (this was noted by Samsonov and not only him). Cherkasy-Cossacks-tartars-gifts / Dariytsy were erased from history and all together were included in the culture of the Russians, but this is not so. The people of Cherkasy were replaced by the Romanovs, self-name of the Circassians.
      And do not put together today's uk_rof / Jews and Cossacks, who had their own dialect / dialect of the Russian language.
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 4 November 2020 12: 11
        +5
        Quote: Bar1
        This is what the Romanov story says. In fact, the Cossacks are the people ...

        Timur, let's not argue in this topic about history in the understanding of Fomenko-Nosovsky, I have my own point of view on this, and it is different from yours. As for the Cossacks, at the time of the Republic of Ingushetia it was precisely the estate that was endowed with land and received some indulgences in self-government in exchange for service in the army. In addition, I believe that the naming or even hints that the Cossacks are nationalities are harmful, because they lead to "Cossack separatism." Remember at least recent history and all kinds of Cossack republics "Don, Kuban, etc. This separatism is still alive. For example, in the Kuban, at Cossack meetings, when the anthem of Russia sounds, everyone stands up, and when the anthem of the Kuban, they take off their caps and sing along ...
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 4 November 2020 14: 11
          -3
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Timur, let's not argue on this topic about history in the understanding of Fomenko-

          Yes, do not worry about the topic, the local contingent, especially all sorts of felines, so litter the topic, this is their job, which is disgusting next, but here is such a specific conversation.

          As for the Cossack separatism. If the people are told the truth about their own story, then the Cossacks-Ukrainians will know that they have defended a state called DarDariya-or Big Dariya all their lives, that then the Romanovs or the West are the same thing they changed to Tartaria.
          Who were the Russians? These are clearly not the Varangians in the understanding of the OI. These were the Western Slavs who lived in modern Italy, there ALL Russo and Rosso. The Yugoslavs used to be called Russiya. Well, on the territory of modern Poland and Belarus, Chervona Rusia and Black Rusia.
          True, the world is marked by the Rosna-Rhone river in France, in Scotland there is the county of Russia, in the Middle East there is the main city of the world is Russalim. Well, if you read not Fomenko, but Mavro Orbini-Slavic kingdom, then the picture of the presence of Russians / Slavs, as well as peoples speaking Russian-Cossacks, Kalmyks, Manchus becomes more obvious.
          There was a big war over Pyzhikov and the Russian and other real peoples simply erased the memory. And the Cossacks, who were Don and Kuban, who were former Zaporozhye, simply don’t remember their kinship, don’t remember their faith, don’t remember their traditions, so they defended the Romanovs to the last.
  3. BAI
    BAI 4 November 2020 15: 22
    +4
    Small Tartary on maps of the 17th century was

    Nowadays, only one river remains from Tartary:

    The locals were chattering about something incomprehensible, hence the name - Tartaria.
    1. Hantengri
      Hantengri 4 November 2020 20: 29
      +4
      Quote: BAI
      The locals were chattering about something incomprehensible, hence the name - Tartaria.

      Here, in fact! And the tartar is very much nothing ... laughing
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 4 November 2020 22: 08
      +3
      In Karelia there are such names on every corner.

      There is even a saying:

      “We are karyala.
      She ate us.

      The rest is in Kalevala.
  4. boris epstein
    boris epstein 5 November 2020 18: 23
    0
    Ha! Cossacks! Yes, but what, whose? Donbass (Luhansk and Donetsk regions) was part of the region of the Great Don Army with its capital in Novocherkassk. And even during the time of Bogdan-Zinovy ​​Khmelnitsky, the outposts of the Don and Zaporozhye Cossacks stood side by side in the Donetsk steppe and there were never any conflicts between them. And more about the Cossacks. Call to Artemovsk-Bakhmut. On the square there is a monument to Kondratiy Timofeevich Bulavin - a beard with a shovel, long thick hair (not an oseledent!) HAPPY-DON (RUSSIAN) Cossack. And the railway station near Gorlovka on the Debaltsevo line is named after him. And he was an INDIGENOUS resident of pre-revolutionary Bakhmut. Gorlovka is named after the RUSSIAN engineer Gorlov. Donetsk railway was built by RUSSIAN millionaire Savva Mamontov.
  • Hypertension
    Hypertension 4 November 2020 12: 28
    +2
    Quote: svp67
    the reason was that the number of "registered" Cossacks was reduced, which violated the rights of the nobility of the Little Russian Cossacks ...

    That is, the Cossacks were "optimized" on rations. A la "no money, but you hold on." The freedom-loving Cossacks did not want to hold on, zrada, the Maidan - that's all ...
  • Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 4 November 2020 06: 37
    0
    But Ivan the Terrible could become the king of the Commonwealth, if the gentlemen did not show their famous arrogance and religious fanaticism, refusing to convert to Orthodoxy.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 4 November 2020 08: 01
      +2
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      But Ivan the Terrible could become the king of the Commonwealth, if the gentlemen did not show their famous arrogance and religious fanaticism, refusing to convert to Orthodoxy.

      Stop pulling on the owl, leave the bird alone. There is no need to ascribe to Tsar Ivan the intentions to baptize the Commonwealth.
      Do not carry faith in the Russian mentality "fire and sword", to realize this fact, it is enough to recall the conquest of the Kazan and Astrakhan khanates, where Orthodoxy was not imposed by violence.
      Among other things, the subsequent colonization of Siberia also speaks in support of this.
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 4 November 2020 08: 06
        -2
        Where did I write this that Grozny intended to convert Poland to Orthodoxy? The pans themselves did not want to elect Ivan the Terrible king, since he was Orthodox, and therefore, after scratching his turnips, they invited Prince Henry the Third of Valois, the son of the King of France and a good Catholic, to rule.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 4 November 2020 08: 23
          +1
          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          Where did I write that that Grozny intended to convert Poland to Orthodoxy?

          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          if the pans had not shown their famous arrogance and religious fanaticism by refusing to convert to Orthodoxy.

          It follows from your comment that at least a proposal Panamas, there was a conversion to Orthodoxy.
          But they refused because of - "famous arrogance and religious fanaticism".
      2. Kronos
        Kronos 4 November 2020 11: 21
        +1
        They planted, for example, Old Believers were burned in log cabins, exiled to exile.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 4 November 2020 11: 24
          -5
          Quote: Kronos
          They planted, for example, Old Believers were burned in log cabins, exiled to exile.

          Didn't the Old Believers themselves commit acts of self-immolation, and went off into the wilderness, away from the "devil's pinch"?

          You are Hops, read yes .

          And besides, you confuse the struggle of the "old and the new" within the Church, and the imposition of a practically different religion with categorically incompatible dogmas ...
          1. Kronos
            Kronos 4 November 2020 16: 18
            0
            No, not yourself. Russia was no different from other countries in any way.
      3. Bar1
        Bar1 4 November 2020 11: 23
        -4
        Quote: Insurgent
        It is not in the Russian mentality to carry the faith with "fire and sword"

        not all historians of the academic school think so, for example, D.Sc. Professor Pyzhikov said that the Russian people fled from the split in the next 250 years, in percentage terms to the population from 20% to 30%. It was not just a civil war, but a grandiose civil war about which we know nothing. So historians together with Rptsehniki all lie.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 06: 59
    +7
    Siberian Ukraine - lands beyond the Urals
    ... It became sincerely interesting that I missed the important thing - I rummaged through everything available and did not find Siberian Ukraine, but only in the interpretation of “Siberian Territory, Siberian land, khanate, kingdom, governorship, and so on”.
    But to the "Ukraine" I can add Kaluga and Ryazan, I feel that a couple of members of the forum will promise me "to tear off the mustache and rip off the tail."
    The principle in the theses of the article contains interesting contradictions.
    Polish Ukraine is the former Kiev, Chernigov-Severskaya, Galicia-Volyn and Belaya Rus. These lands were at first part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Russian - the Russian state. Then Russian Lithuania underwent catholicization and polonization (Westernization

    Polish Ukraine, perhaps a purely Polish term that I have not heard of.
    But where is Chervonnaya Rus', the fundamental part of the discord between the first Rurikovichs and Piasts! Where is Tatishchev's Black Russia?
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 4 November 2020 07: 28
      11
      In the conditions of Schwambrania, any map could be drawn. True, the creators of the Map honestly warned that blots do not count.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 08: 04
        +5
        Quote: Korsar4
        In the conditions of Schwambrania, any map could be drawn. True, the creators of the Map honestly warned that blots do not count.

        Sergey agree !!!
  • parusnik
    parusnik 4 November 2020 07: 41
    +8
    These lands were at first part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Russian - the Russian state.
    ... This "bylichka" in Belarus, is being promoted by Belarusian nationalists, and we have Samsonov.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 08: 07
      +3
      Bravo Alexy !!!
      Best regards, Vlad! hi
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 4 November 2020 08: 31
        +6
        Vlad, welcome hi Go to the article about Rokossovsky, you will learn a lot of interesting things about the famous marshal. Historical obscurantism in VO becomes regular. smile Regards, Alexey.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 10: 02
          +3
          I won't even climb! Enrages - this, I can not resist !!!
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 4 November 2020 08: 17
      0
      Quote: parusnik
      .... this "bylichka" in Belarus, is being promoted by Belarusian nationalists, and we have Samsonov.
      some others also wrote, but did not remember the names, did not finish reading .... also somehow the author wrote that now the Poles are normal to Ukrainians.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 08: 42
        +2
        Quote: Reptiloid
        some others also wrote, but did not remember the names, did not finish reading .... also somehow the author wrote that now the Poles are normal to Ukrainians.

        Gorgeous Dmitry is right in the spirit of the "Soviet intelligentsia" - "I have not read, but I do not approve!"
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 4 November 2020 08: 50
          0
          Glad you liked it hi I wrote as I had. If I read, it seems that there is a discrepancy --- I stop reading. There is not enough time for everything.
          It didn’t sound like that about the Soviet intillegence. request laughing
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 10: 10
            +3
            Dima, listen to the advice of a very wise aunt who was listening to Radio - Echo of Moscow in my presence - “You need to know the enemy to win!”
            Now Dima is north to you if you accept a descendant of the Ermakov Cossacks. This year there will be a low admission rate to universities due to the pandemic. Train yourself on the Unified State Exam and enter at least part-time and part-time studies. I promise a wide expansion of horizons!
            I know your dislike, but advice from the heart.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 4 November 2020 12: 13
              -1
              Why don't you have anyone else for your advice? Since everyone has already sent them? laughing wassat
              You see, here on the site there are worthy established people. Somehow they do not climb with their advice to anyone
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 13: 07
                +1
                Dima, I knew that you would act like an "uneducated ignoramus", all the best moaning!
  • Konstantin Shevchenko
    Konstantin Shevchenko 4 November 2020 07: 49
    0
    The Polish region is translated into Russian as land (native land). If you write the Moscow region, this is not Moscow on the edge in the Russian understanding, but the land of Moscow.
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 4 November 2020 08: 11
      +2
      Don't write nonsense. Poland originated from the self-name of the Poles - the inhabitants of the fields.
      1. Konstantin Shevchenko
        Konstantin Shevchenko 4 November 2020 08: 29
        0
        It’s definitely nonsense. I meant the Polish word "edge".
        1. Kot_Kuzya
          Kot_Kuzya 4 November 2020 11: 22
          +2
          As a child, he wondered who Craiov and Ludov were, reading about the army of Craiova and the army of Ludov. I thought these were the names of the commanders of these armies. But it turned out that this translates as the State Army and the People's Army lol ... By the way, the Ukrainian language, built on the basis of the Galician dialect of the Polish language, is, as expected, very similar to the Polish language.
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 08: 39
        +3
        More precisely, from the self-designation of the Slavic tribe - "glade"! Not to be confused with the Kiev center of the Slavs "glades" !!!
        That, it became even more difficult !!!
        Yours!
      3. cat Rusich
        cat Rusich 5 November 2020 23: 52
        0
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        Poland originated from the self-name of the Poles - the inhabitants of the fields.
        Goplians, Lendzians, Lubushan, Mazovshan, Western glades, Sieradzane, Vistula, Kuyawy - Zapodnoslavic Polish tribes ... By the way - in Poland there are Wielkopolyans from Wielkopolska, there are Malopolyans from Lesser Poland, Mazovshan from Mazury Poozerie and Kashyashia and Kashyany , Lenchitsans and Seryadzyans ... In Mother Russia the same was the Polyana, Kiev was built on their lands, but Poland did not appear ... Polovtsi - in Russian, the same from the word field appeared ... but as they were STEPNYAK, they remained steppe inhabitants ...
  • Operator
    Operator 4 November 2020 09: 06
    -1
    The Poles in the Outskirts were the colonialists, the Jews were the colonial administration.

    The residents of the Okrug responded with Jewish pogroms and massacres of Poles (the so-called haidamaks, glorified by Taras Shevchenko).

    The fact that the Outskirts again became a colony (in this case, the United States) confirms the revival of the Jewish colonial administration in the person of Zelensky, Groisman, Klitschko, etc.

    So, we must wait for branded haidamaks and pogroms.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 4 November 2020 10: 16
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      So, we must wait for branded haidamaks and pogroms.

      And then, according to the logic of the genre, the Russians should come and put things in order?
      1. Operator
        Operator 4 November 2020 10: 31
        -2
        On the outskirts, we need to help the Russians to self-determine, and help the Bandera and Judeo-Bandera supporters blame them on their "historical homelands" in Canada and Israel.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 4 November 2020 11: 12
          +1
          Quote: Operator
          On the outskirts, we need to help the Russians to self-determine, and help the Bandera and Judeo-Bandera supporters blame them on their "historical homelands" in Canada and Israel.

          The classics in the person of Bulgakov and his "White Guard" testify that only "troops from the North" are capable of putting an end to the seemingly endless "operetta" on the outskirts ...
    2. Niel-le-Calais
      Niel-le-Calais 4 November 2020 22: 31
      -1
      Quote: Operator
      The residents of the Okrug responded with Jewish pogroms and massacres of Poles (the so-called haidamaks, glorified by Taras Shevchenko).

      Well, Jews have lived in these territories since ancient times. But because of childbirth, they suffered no worse (or even more abruptly) than the Poles. Even the Poles could be given mercy in the form of a ransom - the feeling of revenge for the Jews was very strong. Left-bank Ukraine cut out and squeezed out almost the entire Jewish population and RI forbade them to settle there. Then, during the division of Poland, many lands with the Jews crossed over again and persecutions began against them. And squeezed out in the same way. Then the pogroms, then the GW, then the squeezing out again, then the Holocaust, then again the departure.
      As a result, the maximum number of Jews was under the RI at the time of the partitions of the RP. about 2 million. Then the number will only decrease.
      And now it is also decreasing.
      Although they are free to wander around the city and they have everything. And all is well.
      No one has innate anti-Semitism to them.
  • ee2100
    ee2100 4 November 2020 09: 24
    +2
    The issues raised in the article are extremely important. But the article is very superficial. Too big for a school textbook, but scanty for this site. As they say in sports - the attempt is not protected.
    There should be a series of articles of the type that there were about the GVK.
    The fact that the Poles themselves pooped an opportunity to become a world power is not a fortune-teller! But he still cannot forgive this for some reason this Russian.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 10: 15
      +5
      Today is the day of revelations! Thrice unctuous Cat platter from Shpakov's English boots fully supports your position!
      winked
      Where the world is heading!
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 4 November 2020 10: 22
        +4
        Good morning! Is this a toast?
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 10: 34
          +1
          For your health drinks
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 4 November 2020 10: 35
            +4
            To our common health!
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 4 November 2020 10: 40
    +7
    Samsonov has articles that you can at least criticize. Rarely, but there are. This is not one of them. Infantile, primitive, tendentious.
    In the style of "the Poles were evil and greedy, and the Jews were cunning and greedy, so the Russians lived badly, they were offended and they were poor."
    Most of all freezes out the primitiveness of the author's thinking and the persistence with which this primitiveness is implanted among the readers. And there are results!
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 11: 39
      +4
      This is how we live, dear Mikhail, inspired an allergy - a dozen cats on a beggar day wander along a pitiful picket fence on the right and left sides there are huge dog kennels. There is an inscription on each kennel. So "namyakuntirute" something on your skinny cat's tail, at the moment they will be knocked off !!!
    2. BAI
      BAI 4 November 2020 15: 26
      +5
      Samsonov has articles that you can at least criticize. Rarely, but there are

      Samsonov is a group of authors. Different authors write differently. They differ in terminology and style of presentation.
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 4 November 2020 20: 37
        +1
        Quote: BAI
        Samsonov is a group of authors. Different authors write differently. They differ in terminology and style of presentation.

        Someone knows him ... Maybe Sasmotov is simply a powerful person, like Billy Milligan ...
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 5 November 2020 16: 28
          +2
          like Billy Milligan ...

          Igor, if you had not said, I would not have known who he was ... Kapets, of course ... belay Thanks for the information, I bow! drinks
          I think that the most famous Russian team of authors under one person was Kozma Prutkov ... "If you want to be happy, be happy." good
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 5 November 2020 16: 00
        +1
        Samsonov is a group of authors. Different authors write differently. They differ in terminology and style of presentation.

        I would venture to suggest that the "true" one is the one with the Hyperboreans. And once a week he has an aggravation. drinks
    3. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 5 November 2020 15: 58
      +1
      and the Jews are cunning and greedy

      Remember the old Soviet anecdote about Darwin's theory? wink (tell with a colorful accent):
      "There are beautiful and intelligent monkeys Shimpanadze - from him Georgians descended. There are big, strong, but stupid monkeys Gavrila - from him Russian descended. There are cunning and greedy monkeys Abram Gutang - from him, by the way, a Jew descended." drinks colleagues - for your understanding! drinks
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 5 November 2020 16: 04
        +1
        - And there is also the monkey Makakyan, cunning and dexterous - the ancestor of the Armenians.
        - And from whom did the Negroes come?
        - Ah, son, how can you be so stupid? First there were blacks, and then monkeys!
        laughing
        If anything, I'm not a racist! drinks
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 5 November 2020 16: 09
          +1
          If anything, I'm not a racist!

          yeah, as one worthy man said: "I'm not a racist, I just don't like blacks."
          First there were blacks, and then monkeys!

          In my version:
          - Wai, dad, dad, how foldable! And from which of the monkeys did the Negro come from?
          - ... nat, son ... These are monkeys from a negro ...
          request
  • Catfish
    Catfish 4 November 2020 11: 22
    +6
    Good afternoon friends. hi
    Our colleague Alexander (ee2100) asked to insert this photo and text into today's discussion.


    It is possible with this text
    Monument to Poland in the Sofiyivka park in Uman put up by Count Pototsky at the beginning of the XNUMXth century.
    In Poland there is everything and the land and the people (the foundation of the monument and the beginning of a powerful column) there is no "head"
    Best regards
    Alexander
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 11: 41
      +5
      Paradoxically, in all anti-Russian uprisings, the Ruhr army was actively supported by the Polish peasants.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 4 November 2020 11: 43
        +6
        Hello, Vlad! hi Thanks for the plus, but it's more likely to our friend ee2100 (Alexander). smile
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 4 November 2020 11: 51
          +4
          I guessed Uncle Kostya and did not offend Alexander with a plus either.
  • iouris
    iouris 4 November 2020 11: 38
    +1
    Because the climate in Ukraine is the same and the terrain.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 4 November 2020 11: 41
    14
    Today, not just obscurantism, but obscurantism squared. The author moved from a global presentation of the history of a super-ethnos to details in the form of specific historical events.
    Moreover, the recipe for making pulp fiction has recently been simple, like a felt boot of a resident of Siberian Ukraine. An article is taken from Wikipedia, the super-ethnos of the Rus-Russians is inserted into it, and the resulting picture is polished with small details in accordance with the event described. In this case, the popular among the current turbopatriots - Black Hundreds paradigm that "Ukrainians" and "Belarusians" were created as "ethnic groups" in a directive order only after 1917
    True, it is enough to open the Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedic Dictionary, published in the Russian Empire in the XNUMXth century, to make sure that the author, to put it mildly, is lying, but which of the "imperials" - admirers of the author's work, looks at those dictionaries.
  • BAI
    BAI 4 November 2020 15: 15
    +5
    The Jews squeezed all the juices out of the people, forgetting themselves.

    The flight of the author's insanity knows no boundaries. At that time, the Jews in Ukraine were the most disenfranchised part of the population.
    With the adoption of the 1st Lithuanian Statute (1529), Jews lost the right to be witnesses in real estate cases. In fact, Jews were not allowed to testify in court at all, to convert anyone to Judaism (violators of this prohibition were sentenced to be burned), to hire Christian women as nurses, to wear a dress embroidered with gold or silver. Men were instructed to wear yellow hats (see Distinguishing mark). In 1539, King Sigismund I for the first time handed over to the jurisdiction of the nobility (gentry) Jews who lived in their hereditary domains. By the 2nd Lithuanian Statute (1566), all anti-Jewish restrictions were upheld.
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 4 November 2020 16: 39
      +1
      Quote: BAI
      The flight of the author's insanity knows no boundaries. At that time, the Jews in Ukraine were the most disenfranchised part of the population.


      Taras Bulba.
      Such a time has now begun that the holy churches are no longer ours.
      - How not ours?
      - Now the Jews have them on lease. If you don’t pay a Jew in advance, then mass cannot be ruled.
      - What do you interpret?
      - And if a rassobachy Jew does not put down the badge with his unclean hand on Holy Passover, then it is impossible to keep Passover holy.
      - He's lying, gentlemen-brothers, it cannot be that an unclean Jew would put a badge on Holy Passover.
      - Listen! I’ll tell you something else: priests now travel all over Ukraine in taratais. Yes, it’s not the trouble that the taratais are, but the trouble is that they harness not horses, but Orthodox Christians. Listen! I’ll tell you something else: they say, Jews are already sewing skirts for themselves from priest’s vestments. These are the things that are happening in Ukraine, sir! And here you are sitting in Zaporozhye and walking, yes, apparently, the Tatar gave you such fear that you already have no eyes, no ears, nothing, and you do not hear what is happening in the world.

      More details: https://obrazovaka.ru/biblioteka/gogol/taras-bulba-chitat-online/chast-4

      so don't lie, Jew, don't lie.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. ee2100
        ee2100 4 November 2020 17: 14
        +1
        And who took Taras to the execution of Ostap in Krakow?
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 4 November 2020 22: 22
          +2
          I don’t give a fuck .. but what is the minus? Just explain. Or if you haven't read the classics? Is it just easier to slap a minus and that's it? Egeshny ghouls.
        2. cat Rusich
          cat Rusich 6 November 2020 00: 11
          0
          Quote: ee2100
          And who took Taras to the execution of Ostap in Krakow?

          Jew Yankel - for FIVE THOUSAND CHERVONS ... - any whim for your chervonets bully And took Taras to WARSAW.
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 6 November 2020 10: 17
            0
            Most likely to Warsaw, you are probably right. I read it for a long time. But this is not the main thing and not 5000 ducats, but to whom did Taras entrust his life!
            You must read correctly, and most importantly, understand what is written
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 4 November 2020 18: 53
      +2
      At that time, Jews in Ukraine were the most disenfranchised part of the population.
      Here you are mistaken.
  • Operator
    Operator 4 November 2020 23: 09
    -1
    Quote: Niel-le-Calais
    Jews have lived in these territories since ancient times

    Before the creation of the confederation Rzeczpospolita (Poland + Lithuania), the outskirts were part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Russia, which limited the migration of Jews to its territory.

    After the entry of the VKLR into the Rzecz Pospolita, the Poles transferred the Outskirts under their jurisdiction and began to import Jews there from Europe in commercial quantities in order to form their own colonial administration. Jews served as administrators in Polish estates, collected taxes, kept taverns (shinkarni) on a ransom, collected rent from parishes of Orthodox churches for the right to use the churches.
  • Doliva63
    Doliva63 5 November 2020 17: 31
    0
    Samsonov is inexhaustible laughing
  • Sergey Sfiedu
    Sergey Sfiedu 8 November 2020 06: 59
    +1
    The fact that Ukrainians rebelled against the Poles is understandable. It is much more interesting why they regularly howl with their Russian brothers.
  • Vladislav 73
    Vladislav 73 10 November 2020 21: 00
    0
    The people were sucked dry. At the same time, the funds did not go to the development of the state. They were spent on luxury and pleasure.
    Surprisingly, but the respected author precisely writes about the Rzeczpospolita? And that just painfully resembles the situation in "a certain kingdom, in a certain state" today ... request