Roscosmos called the timing of the launch of new rocket engines on the international market

In 2022, Russia will introduce new rocket engines to the international market, designed for both Russian launch vehicles and foreign ones. This was reported on the website of Glavkosmos (part of Roscosmos).

According to plans, in 2022 Roskosmos will begin supplying new RD-182 engines for the first stages of launch vehicles and RD-120MS used in the second stages. These engines will join the RD-180 and RD-181, currently exported to the United States, where they are used on American Atlas and Antares missiles.

The engines have reportedly been under development since last year.

In 2019, NPO Energomash announced the resumption of production of the upgraded RD-120 rocket engine developed at the enterprise in 1976-1985 for use in the second stage of the Zenit launch vehicle produced at the Yuzhny Machine-Building Plant (Yuzhmash) in Ukraine. It uses oxygen and kerosene as fuel. For more than 30 years, the engine has been mass-produced at Yuzhmash, to which all the documentation was transferred back in Soviet times.

The RD-182 engine is a modification of the RD-120 engine that uses methane as fuel.

As Dmitry Rogozin, General Director of the Roscosmos State Corporation, said earlier, many foreign countries have already turned to Russia with a proposal to purchase new rocket engines.

Comments

[Maki maki]

Deliveries from 2022 of new engines ... Unexpected.

[Proxima]

From the text: "The RD-182 engine is a modification of the RD-120 engine that uses methane as fuel." Some thoughtless copy-paste of the left article! RD-182 is the first stage engine, RD-120 is the second stage. What kind of modification is this? And of course, it does not work on any methane, but works on kerosene.

[military_cat]

As Dmitry Rogozin, General Director of the Roscosmos State Corporation, said earlier, many foreign countries have already turned to Russia with a proposal to purchase new rocket engines.

I'm sure this is one hundred percent, ahem, let's say, "verbal interventions." Russian engines were previously sold to a couple of countries (like the United States and Korea, both abandoned in favor of their own developments, other countries with a space program focused on their own production - largely for political reasons - and there is no reason why they would suddenly stop doing this do), and now these engines are even less interesting to potential buyers, for at least two reasons: 1) only disposable missiles can be developed on them, obviously outdated when one reusable system flies and several more are at different stages of development 2) in 2023 new Pentagon rules will come into force, and any providers of space or launch services using Russian technologies are deprived of the opportunity to participate in American state gas supplies, and this is a very fat segment of the market.

We have to look at things realistically - Russian producers of rocket engines will now have to live exclusively on domestic demand.

I would like to be wrong - but then it would be interesting to hear what countries we are talking about.

[bessmertniy]

And that Rogozin does not collect advances from those who wish? Money must be forged today! Tomorrow they will introduce new sanctions and have to sell for a penny.

[Cosm22]

The same opinion. Apparently, this is another boasting of Mr. Rogozin in the style of the construction of lunar bases, which is called in the common people differently. For the simple reason that there is nothing more to say, but something must be said.
For the sake of interest, I ran through the news. Yes, some foreign companies allegedly express an interest in buying. But an interesting fact - in no news was the name of any country announced. It seems that this "interest" exists only in the head of Rogozin.
Now on to the case.
To which countries is Rogozin going to supply engines? States disappear immediately. Neither Bezos nor Musk need them for free. NASA, too, not today or tomorrow will even stop delivering RD-180.
China does not need them; it has its own space program, which is being successfully implemented. In a couple of years he himself will give Russia a hundred points in advance in this direction.
French? Japanese? The engines have already been created for the media existing there. Maybe Mr. Rogozin will arrange export in Zimbabwe? Tady yes, tady oh ...
Can these engines be adapted for the needs of Russia? No. These engines will not find application even in Russia in the near future. Similar to the excellent RD-180, which turned out to be absolutely unclaimed at home, because there was no carrier for them.
At the first stage of Soyuz-5 it is planned to use the RD-171MV engine - an upgraded engine from the first stage of the Zenit rocket, at the second stage - two RD-0124MS.
On the notorious "Angara" A5M / A5B - RD-191 at the first and second stages, RD-0124AP / RD-0150 at the third.
Who needs these RD-182 and RD-120MS in Russia if there is simply no carrier for them? And you don't even plan to create it?
And who does Rogozin want to use these engines for abroad? Is it weak to name the country?

[Orange bigg]

Quote: Proxima

From the text: "The RD-182 engine is a modification of the RD-120 engine that uses methane as fuel." Some thoughtless copy-paste of the left article! RD-182 is the first stage engine, RD-120 is the second stage. What kind of modification is this? And of course, it does not work on any methane, but works on kerosene.

This is approximately the case.

The development of promising units started last year. The RD-120MS is based on the RD-120, created by NPO Energomash for the second stage of the Zenit launch vehicle and produced in Ukraine for 30 years.

It is reported that the new RD-182 will be used in the first stages of missiles. In turn, the RD-120MS is created for the upper stages.

As for the Ukrainian Zenit launch vehicles, they plan to replace them with the Soyuz-5 launch vehicle, which has been under development since 2016, and the first launch is scheduled for 2023. The first stage of the promising middle-class rocket will be equipped with an RD-171MV power plant, and the second - two RD-0124MS, which have already replaced the Ukrainian RD-120 in the third stage Soyuz-2.1b.

https://topcor.ru/17180-v-rossii-gotovjat-dva-novyh-raketnyh-dvigatelja-vmesto-ukrainskih.html

[slipped]

Quote: Proxima

What kind of modification is this? And of course, it does not work on any methane, but works on kerosene.

Who told you that , the network has its characteristics. The engine was developed for a long time. Created on the basis of RD-120K with afterburning of oxidizing generator gas.

[tralflot1832]

Why give up the rocket engine market! From scratch, such a contraption is very expensive! WHY invent a "Mercedes" for the cosmos, if we have one. Velcom !!!

[astepanov]

The Americans have already announced that they will not purchase Russian engines. I wonder who Rogozin has in mind when he speaks of "many countries"? Are there many countries in space building their own rockets?

[tralflot1832]

Ask the Israelis this question, they all know who wants to fly into space on Russian engines. And at America's expense, they will only put their NASA rocket engine by March. And this is the second, and no one has canceled the chips in the fire chamber, and even more so in the turbo pump. .When this ball with the Americans should end, I would also like.

[K-612-O]

France, China, Israel, Japan, India, it’s just off the hook.

[astepanov]

The French have their own engines - the oxygen-hydrogen Vulcan and solid-fuel boosters, and all of this is used on Ariane rockets of various modifications. I did not find anything about the purchase of our engines by the French. Israel does not build its own missiles and is not going to - it uses foreign missiles to launch satellites. India has rockets on its own engines. Japan trades less with Russia: "the problem of the northern territories" and US pressure. China? He has his own rockets and engines, and the dynamics of development is such that Rogozin can only dream in the sweetest dreams. Who remains? Some mythical "Many".

[tralflot1832]

Is it possible that only Pakistan and Iran remained, while South Africa and Brazil are not considered?

[zlinn]

Israel is building its missiles, but they are solid-fuel, and if someone wants to develop liquid-propellant missiles in IAI, then Israel could just turn to its energomash

[KCA]

Not quite so, they will not buy RD-180, perhaps they will not, BE-4 has not flown yet, and there were no failures on RD-193 (export RD-181), and this is just about replacing RD-181 - RD -182

[military_cat]

Formally, there were no failures for the RD-180 either, the missile developers simply announced the development of the next generation of missiles, where Russian engines are not used. ULA (bought RD-180) - about Vulcan, and Northrop (bought RD-181) - about OmegA (but Northrop was left without contracts at all, development was curtailed). And then there was a decision by the Pentagon that it is prohibited to purchase space services using Russian technologies from 2023, without specifying the engine brand.

[slipped]

Quote: KCA

and it's just about replacing the RD-181 - RD-182

What kind of replacement? These are technologically different engines.

[Rudkovsky]

Dreaming is not harmful, it is harmful not to dream. And in 2022 no one will remember this news, there will be new fairy tales and new dates, somewhere out there, in the distant future.

[times]

If they start producing methane, it will really be a "step forward"

[NDR-791]

Here who will be in time ahead. Americans also make methane. If the parameters are the same, but they are more expensive, it is possible that we will "ride" them here too

[Cosm22]

What do you mean "doing"?
They have already been done. Moreover, engines were made that really have no analogues in the world - FFSC, afterburning engines with gasification of both fuel components.
Almost a month ago, Raptor engines were brought to the SpaceX launch site in Boca Chica to be installed on the SN8. At least one of them is known to have the number SN39. Moreover, SN6 already flew SN29, and a month earlier, SN5 - SN27.
In November, a Starship flight with 3 engines is planned for a test 15 kilometers.
In addition, firing bench tests of the vacuum Raptor in MkGregor have been completed.
Bezos has a BE-4 ready. Who will say hello to the Russian RD-180 in the States.

[ZEMCH]

Quote: Cosm22

Bezos has a BE-4 ready. Who will say hello to the Russian RD-180 in the States.

Not ready, they just solved the problem with the turbo pump (in their words), now the whole test cycle from the beginning. The RD-180 has two and a half times more thrust. the density of methane is less than the density of kerosene, the entire carrier is being reworked. The new reusable stage has not yet flown with the BE-4, when it is not yet known when it will fly, and how it will fly)))

[Cosm22]

You know, lately I attach much more importance to "their words" than to the words of Mr. Rogozin.
For if "they speak," then they do. Musk says little at all, but the results are impressive.
Next.
Why compare the RD-180 with a methane engine?
After all, the point is that we are talking about reusable units! Can this be done with kerosene? And in general, forget about the RD-180. He is practically buried. This is his fate ... An excellent engine with excellent characteristics turned out to be of no use to anyone in Russia. And soon it will be deprived of the US market. And written off for scrap.
As for the BU-4, ULA has already received the first engine. The second is on the way. Yes, while in the stage of running and testing. But they at least have something to experience. I will add - from private traders (I hope, we will not enter into a stupid discussion that Musk and Bezos receive a lot of money from NASA?).
And somehow modestly you keep silent about the creation of the Raptor. Maybe he doesn't exist either?

[ZEMCH]

Quote: Cosm22

You know, lately I attach much more importance to "their words" than to the words of Mr. Rogozin.
For if "they speak," then they do. Musk says little at all, but the results are impressive.

Rogozin I do not believe because of the word "absolutely"!

Quote: Cosm22

Why compare the RD-180 with a methane engine?
After all, the point is that we are talking about reusable units! Can this be done with kerosene? And in general, forget about the RD-180. He is practically buried. This is his fate ... An excellent engine with excellent characteristics turned out to be of no use to anyone in Russia. And soon it will be deprived of the US market. And written off for scrap.

RD-180 is half of the RD-170, which, in turn, was reusable))
I do not compare with methane gas, I answered the question of BE-4 readiness and how soon our engines will be replaced in the USA)) And so the engine is good, but you correctly noticed that nobody needs it.

Quote: Cosm22

And somehow modestly you keep silent about the creation of the Raptor. Maybe he doesn't exist either?

According to Raptor, in general, the information is peculiar, TTZ for thrust of 9000 kN, they reported about readiness for implementation, then less and less, now it is already 1900 kN, but they seem to promise 2000 kN. The stage configuration depends on the thrust. But SN29 worked like jumping and landing. There are 37 of them in various configurations (the central part works for landing). Get it - well done!

[Cosm22]

The RD-180 is not just a good engine, it is a great engine.
But!
For their time and for specific purposes. Kerosene, with all its advantages, cannot ensure the reusability of the unit due to banal carbon deposits. Well, this is a well-known fact.
But the Raptor ... This is a unique thing. This is the world's first truly working closed-cycle liquid-propellant rocket engine with full gasification of fuel (all other sounded versions of the two countries were either only tested or only advertised).
Traction, specific impulse - these are all, of course, important indicators. And according to some indicators, methane loses to the same kerosene. But methane, occupying a special position between kerosene and hydrogen, allows, with sufficient thrust, to make the apparatus reusable and, most importantly, to do it cheaply! That's the whole trick.
After all, with every re-launch, the total costs are reduced. Therefore, the dollar / thrust ratios are not comparable.
If the RD-180 has a ratio of $ / kN equal to 6527/1 (and this figure is not matched by anyone even in Russia), then the Raptor has 1000/1. And Musk said that this figure will only improve further.
It looks like America is really poor, since disposable items in space are already unacceptable for it. Algorithms "started - and the grass does not grow, everything burned out without a trace - and to hell with it, we will do something new, we are rich) there are not welcome now .."

[Whirlwind]

It is incomprehensible to the mind how complex a modern taxiway is. Work at colossal pressures, temperatures and rates of supply of fuel components and gas outflow! And how, with all that, the first steps can be reusable ???

[tralflot1832]

And the speed and performance of the fuel and oxidizer supply turbo pumps is beyond the understanding of a simple layman.

[NDR-791]

... many foreign countries have already approached Russia with a proposal to purchase new rocket engines.
Many are what? It looks like a dreamer's dream ...
Maybe the whole point is this:
The rights to the RD-180 belong to the Americans. It was they who invested in the development of this engine in 1996, which was difficult for Russia, in 170. It was created at NPO Energomash by order of a company from the United States, dividing the Soviet RD-170 into two parts, creating a new turbopump unit, automation for it, changing the design of the pump guide vanes and some other units and parts. Unification of RD-180 and RD-75 engines no more than 180%. The work was paid for by the American company Pratt & Whitney, which acted on behalf of the Lockheed Martin corporation. The rights to the RD-XNUMX belong to Pratt & Whitney, although some sources claim that in fact the rights to this engine belong to the giant Lockheed Martin corporation.
Therefore, we cannot sell the RD-180 to anyone other than the Americans, they will peck

[Svarog]

Quote: NDR-791

Many are what? It looks like a dreamer's dream ...

Journalist..

[NDR-791]

Well, the Chinese still wanted to buy. However, they wanted a complete cycle and all technology. Ours did not sell, the Americans did not allow. Now we will butt to sell only engines or everything in bulk, along with documentation. And I don’t know any more cases that someone dreamed of buying our engines. Therefore, about "many" let's keep quiet standing up and taking off our hats ...

[donavi49]

Why Chinese? Only private owners - but it is more profitable for them to buy. However, I have not yet heard of Chinese privateers with a launch vehicle under the taxiway.

Everyone is sawing their engines, China is getting into methane very much. And return. They have all the main state family on their engines. And new launch vehicles that are also built on their own engines.

[NDR-791]

It is now. And at 97m they asked, but figurines

[donavi49]

Well, you never know what happened in 97. The engine is useless without a stage. All state missiles and plans are scheduled until 35-40 years. There are their engines. Plus, they are not ashamed of the life-giving heptylchik in the first steps and are not particularly trying to get away from it.

Private traders are most likely. What is the thread of a new Shanghai startup - they will save on the first stage by collecting only a tank for RDshki. But again, so far, of all private Chinese missiles, they are based either on their own engines or on those purchased from other Chinese.

[URAL72]

https://www.atraining.ru/trainers/karmanov/rd-180-usa-patent/
Read carefully, follow the links, and DO NOT WRITE BOTH! Maybe you will go for a smart one, but in my eyes, your authority has collapsed ...

[NDR-791]

I won't even argue here. Just answer the question: to which countries does Russia sell rocket engines? And in relation to the phrase: many foreign countries have already turned to Russia with a proposal to purchase new rocket engines.

[URAL72]

An article on my link, as well as a comment not about sales, but about patents. Engines may be needed in Brazil, India, we work closely with both. South Korea has its own missile program, and we also work with them. Iran is also rushing into space, and now we have excellent relations, and very great views in connection with the lifting of sanctions.

[military_cat]

Quote: URAL72

South Korea has its own missile program, and we also work with them.

We worked. KSLV-1 with Hangara as the first stage is closed, KSLV-II is being made only by Korean developers.

[slipped]

Quote: military_cat

KSLV-II is being made only by Korean developers.

Seriously?

[military_cat]

Yes. The test run of their first stage engine demonstrator with a burning gas generator torch on the side confirms that they are going through the evolutionary path of engine building anew.

[slipped]

Quote: military_cat

Yes. The test run of their first stage engine demonstrator with a burning gas generator torch on the side confirms that they are going through the evolutionary path of engine building anew.

OK then. Again, again. But three years ago they came to Energomash and tearfully asked for our 75-ton methane-fueled truck.

[military_cat]

Quote: slipped

OK then. Again, again. But three years ago they came to Energomash and tearfully asked for our 75-ton methane-fueled truck.

It is clear that the next charlatans and fraudsters posing as those who they are not, wound up in the space industry. It seems that the entire space industry has turned into some kind of hotbed of fraudsters and charlatans (except for us, on the contrary, we take the rap for everything).

[NDR-791]

And in the article about sales. And I asked you about sales. When? Who? How many? I hate triumphant reports about the failure, so I got angry.

[slipped]

Quote: NDR-791

And in the article about sales. And I asked you about sales. When? Who? How many? I hate triumphant reports about the failure, so I got angry.

We sell the entire rocket to the European consortium Arianspace, together with the RD-107/108, RD-0124 and RB "Fregat" engines, which also has an engine.

[Fungus]

Engine country

[SOUTH,]

They will be supplied together with methane! Sponsors the development of a methane engine Gazprom.

[zwlad]

Isn't it easier not to sell engines but launch missiles?
If there is an acceptable price, then there will be demand.
It has not come yet that it is more profitable to deal with ready-made solutions and not spare parts.

[slipped]

Quote: zwlad

It has not come yet that it is more profitable to deal with ready-made solutions and not spare parts.

Here are several hundreds of modernized SPD-50M engines sold to the British, it turned out to be profitable.

[ZEMCH]

Quote: slipped

Here are several hundreds of modernized SPD-50M engines sold to the British, it turned out to be profitable.

Almost 400 vehicles (including military) fly on our SPTs of various modifications in space

[Financier]

in 2022 Roskosmos will start supplying new engines

I don't even know whether to believe or not, the news of Roscosmos ...

[Lexus]

In 2022 year Russia will bring to the international market new rocket engines

In 2019 NPO Energomash announced the resumption of production of the upgraded rocket engine RD-120, developed at the enterprise in 1976-1985

Engine RD-182 is modification Engine RD-120

The "cuckoo" of the scraponauts from "Sawpilkosmos" finally left. With the remains of conscience.

[vvm45]

The trick is that RD-182 runs on liquefied methane as fuel, instead of kerosene for RD-120. The use of RD-182 at the second stage will make it possible to implement the injection schemes with the second stage liquid-propellant engine re-starting, which technically cannot be done using kerosene. Such a launching scheme makes it possible to increase the weight efficiency / recoil of the withdrawn payload (I don’t remember how many percent) and the reliability of the launch vehicle as a whole.
My proactive approach to the topic of increasing the carrying capacity and reliability of the Zenit launch vehicle through the use of liquefied methane took place in 1992-1993, while working at TsNIIMASH in the department of launch vehicle development prospects.
This topic has a history that I often remember and regret that I did the wrong thing then.
I had no direct relation to the Zenith launch site, since I worked on the ISS Buran. Then it was scary to even imagine, but all the preliminary calculations and sketches for evaluating the version of the Zenith LV using methane I did in the manuscript, those. on ordinary A4 sheets in pencil (it is convenient to edit and not produce paper) stored in the desktop. This was my hopeless search, my professional interest to calm my soul. The results were very good. But I also really understood that they would not even consider reworking the project of a product in production.
In a private conversation with the head of the department for advanced development of LPRE NPO ENERGOMASH, I spoke about the availability of such estimates for Zenith due to the use of LPRE on methane. But when, a month later, he asked me for this manuscript, I then got scared of the possible consequences of violating the secrecy regime and refused. And it was just necessary to hand it over with an agreement of complete refusal of authorship. Then this manuscript, like another earlier one on the lunar rover for the Lunar base under the L3M program, was kept at home for some time, and then it was destroyed by me out of harm's way!
As I understand it, NPO ENERGOMASH has brought this topic to the end. LPRE on methane should have a higher calculated reliability, due to deliveries after a working burn-through of the engine without its bulkhead, which was then impossible for soot LPRE on kerosene.

[Generator Systems]

It seems that we have lost one of the leading positions in space programs Russia has already bypassed China and the United States.