"We won thanks to the convicts": myths about the Great Patriotic War

There are so many myths about the Great Patriotic War. Perhaps the most "tenacious" are the myths that the German army and its many allies lost the war against the USSR, since they were opposed not by the courage and heroism of the Soviet people, but by the weather conditions. " The topic of the notorious "General Frost" managed to set the teeth on edge. But many historians (or, more honestly, pseudo-historians) continue to actively use it.

A well-known expert, political scientist Oleg Matveychev, on his channel "Ears waving a donkey", exposes such insinuations about the Great Victory.

In the video presented, the expert reflects on such a "myth-making" topic as statements about the alleged "weighty contribution to the Victory of Soviet prisoners." The basis of this myth is as follows: Soviet prisoners were sent to the front "for the sake of redemption," and it was they who made the main contribution to the defeat of the Nazis. And, they say, if it were not for the convicts, then there would be no victory at all.

Message: "We won thanks to the convicts."

Oleg Matveychev talks about the realities of the formation of the so-called penal battalions during the war, about what kind of convicts got into them, and what role they actually played. Matveychev notes that recidivists were indeed drafted into penal battalions, but only the call-up time was rather short - only about 6 months.

Video from Oleg Matveychev:

Comments

[Pessimist22]

And who claims this? Or the expert declares and exposes himself and there are views.

[BDRM 667]

Quote: Pessimist22

And who claims this? Or the expert declares and exposes himself and there are views.

Few people talk openly about this (time is obviously waiting), but the process of preparing "public opinion", but simply goofing off the viewer, especially the younger generation, through such "truthful and highly artistic military-historical films" such as "Bastards", "Penal Battles", "Lousy sheep "and" besogon "Mikhalkov (!!!) with his imperishable creation," Burnt by the Sun 2: Citadel "- is in full swing.


Or is it not noticeable, or insignificant?

[Pessimist22]

Mikhalkov has to make a film about his uncle Mikhail, who served in the SS, and then also received awards for the Second World War, but he is ashamed to tell about the exploits of his uncle.

[Hunter 2]

In general, very serious work is needed with these "myth makers". Distortion of information about the Second World War and vtsselov about WWII is simply a denigration of the memory of Our Grandfathers who won this War. You need to open archives and work closely with them. Otherwise, it will come to the point that Our Grandfathers did not defend their Motherland ... at the cost of their Heroic lives at the front and In the most difficult conditions they forged victory in the rear, and reluctantly, they fought this War out of hand.
Where do such "historians" come from ... apparently really the descendants of the unfinished Vlasovites and other huskies.

[Stas57]

It is a very correct remark, now it is fashionable to come up with a myth - beast lizardmen fought for the USSR, and then proudly overturn it! You just need to come up with a phrase and a name brighter. "We are destroying the myth about Stalin's beast-lords" (preferably in the title of the word Stalin, NKVD, GULAG, Destroy the Myth))
well, comments as one:
Thank you, I didn’t.
An excellent rebuff to the liberals with Soros money
Thank you for telling the truth, etc., etc.
Well, what else to do for a political scientist of an institute / center named after himself and consisting of one character, and then flickering on the screen and using the patriotic trend in his pocket.

[Konnick]

I would help this expert with facts. A book of memoirs by M.I. Suknev, WWII veteran "Notes of the commander of the penal battalion" MI Suknev, that's where the collection of myths. A few paragraphs from "Notes ..."

"The city was deserted. It became wild. People were afraid of each other. They repressed everyone."

"The 2nd company was formed from 200 Gavrikov - Odessa and Rostov repeat offenders, who were replaced with a penal battalion for long terms of serving sentences in prisons and camps. but the smartest folk. Reasonable, technically educated, nevertheless, such mechanisms, safes in savings banks, were opened. " What are the 2 years here?

"The 3rd company - Basmachi, 200 Tajiks, Turkmens and from somewhere else from Central Asia ..." without words ...

“The MTS had a brick building on one floor, here I was met by a fellow traveler, an artillery captain with a walkie-talkie. , the tank turned its gun around and fired two shots at our window, but the wall withstood the fragmentation shells ... "

"The box contained a certificate, still clean, but with seals, as well as the Order of Lenin and the Golden Star of the Hero! If I take Ezere, the box is mine !!!"

And the masterpiece-
"There were our dead, two or three, but these were not corpses, they were incorporeal remains! Empty uniforms, no heads, empty bags with boots, even without bones! The explosion of a high-explosive shell overhead - and there is no man, he is already" without lead the missing. "When such a shell explodes, the temperature reaches two thousand degrees, and the person evaporates instantly ..."
After reading such opuses, there is a feeling of disgust for those people who write delightful reviews about this book.

But now the archives are more or less open. And I was looking for information about my close and distant relatives. There was also one who fought in the 28th OshR, a separate penal company. The company was commanded by Major Alexey Lesik. My relative was an aircraft technician and for some offense ended up in the penalty box, for reconnaissance in force in the 28th OShR received a medal "For Courage" and was sent to his unit. Read about the preparation of this unit for this reconnaissance and arming the penalty box.

[mat-vey]

Quote: Konnick

Read about the preparation of this unit for this reconnaissance and arming the penalty box.

And you can also find Pyltsev - half of the war in the permanent composition of the penal battalion ..
Suknev - what a hinting surname ...

[Far B]

the expert reflects on such a "myth-making" topic as statements about the alleged "weighty contribution to the Victory of Soviet prisoners"

And also the convicts, they say, pulled out industrialization on themselves. And the post-war restoration was also their work (the second half of the country at that time guarded them, the prisoners, and therefore nifiga did not participate in the creative process). In short, prisoners are the vanguard of the Stalinist USSR, no matter what area of ​​life you touch.
Absurd - he is so absurd ...

[Grandfather]

Quote: Dalny V

And also the convicts, they say, pulled out industrialization on themselves.

uh-huh ... BAM, Belomorkanal ... and the Black Sea were dug by the Ukrainian ZK. and before that, Peter was built, and a piece of iron "Moscow-Petersburg". and about this, also a "prisoner" wrote ... Radishchev ... (the correct kid type, but with cockroaches) (it would be interesting to see his partakas, what for people in life ...)

[carstorm 11]

these myths have always been and will be. usually come from people who do not do their job at all and draw conclusions based on their knowledge that do not intersect with the army and even more so the war. in our time it is generally quite common. military experts who did not serve in the army. military historians who do not even enter the archives. a lot of these and garbage from them oh how much. Karpov has a book. Take it alive in my opinion. Karpov is a front-line soldier. Scout. Hero of the Soviet Union. 79 languages ​​captured. I described very well how they get to the penal battalion and how everything works there.

[Grandfather]

Quote: carstorm 11

These myths have always been and will be. usually come from people who do not do their job at all

you are wrong! this is their "business" ...

[Undecim]

A whole stratum of all kinds of "experts", "historians" and "famous political scientists" has already formed, living comfortably on the exploitation of history and its use for propaganda purposes. One part of this "historical community" creates myths, the second refutes them. Sometimes one gets the impression that both the creation and the refutation are carried out by the same persons or different ones, but by prior agreement.

[Lexus]

Welcome ,
that's right, it's easier to smear the "uncomfortable" cleanliness with feces than to wash the existing dirt. Through the efforts of the current "tvArtsov" we got "that" with which Lermontov, in verse, said goodbye, leaving for the Caucasus.

[Radical]

Quote: Hunter 2

In general, very serious work is needed with these "myth makers". Distortion of information about the Second World War and vtsselov about WWII is simply a denigration of the memory of Our Grandfathers who won this War. You need to open archives and work closely with them. Otherwise, it will come to the point that Our Grandfathers did not defend their Motherland ... at the cost of their Heroic lives at the front and In the most difficult conditions they forged victory in the rear, and reluctantly, they fought this War out of hand.
Where do such "historians" come from ... apparently really the descendants of the unfinished Vlasovites and other huskies.

This is your superficial look at this issue, in fact, this "myth-making" work is systematic, prolonged in time, and organized by the authorities, with the aim of finally discrediting the leadership of the USSR at that time, and later (you will be surprised) the Victory itself. Because this process began actively in 1985 and up to now. And the annual show is an imitation of the Victory celebrations, this is the only line that allows the authorities to keep the population in a sleepy state, and at a distance ... from themselves.

[Radical]

Quote: carstorm 11

these myths have always been and will be. usually come from people who do not do their job at all and draw conclusions based on their knowledge that do not intersect with the army and even more so the war. in our time it is generally quite common. military experts who did not serve in the army. military historians who do not even enter the archives. a lot of these and garbage from them oh how much. Karpov has a book. Take it alive in my opinion. Karpov is a front-line soldier. Scout. Hero of the Soviet Union. 79 languages ​​captured. I described very well how they get to the penal battalion and how everything works there.

There is such a book, well written, readable for the child's psyche, would it be included in the school curriculum, what do you think?

[Radical]

Quote: Undecim

A whole stratum of all kinds of "experts", "historians" and "famous political scientists" has already formed, living comfortably on the exploitation of history and its use for propaganda purposes. One part of this "historical community" creates myths, the second refutes them. Sometimes one gets the impression that both the creation and the refutation are carried out by the same persons or different ones, but by prior agreement.

At the same time, they believe that all this is done by bad officials, without touching the central "body" ...

[dgonni]

The author, as it were, is captivated by his illusions. For the screams that all the victory lies with the convicts and the penal battalion team, it seems, is not heard. But the author has thought of something for himself and pushes the vidyashka to the masses.
Smiled for the fact that at first they were taken to the penalty box only for periods of no more than 2 years.
The author is aware that for 5 spikelets they gave at least a five? Well, the jokes started from the pyaterochka. Anti-Soviet and sabotage from ten. And this anti-Sovietism sent the secretary of the party committee on the collective farm in front of witnesses, get your signature. Sabotage? It started to rain ill-timed and long. Hay or mown bread has rotted. Get a ten and be happy.
How did the anecdote go in those days?
What are you sitting for? Yes, not at all! Do not lie! For no reason they give a ten and you soldered 15.
1.4% of the penal battalions in the total number of those called up seem to be few. But they were constantly on the front line at the forefront of the offensive. And this is far from the rear and not even a baggage train. And surviving three months without being wounded was almost unrealistic.
So here, too, the author has some illusions of his own.
I had a neighbor. He was a strong grandfather. So he got his 5 years for the collective farm ears of corn in the 40th year as a kid. At 43 after Stalingrad, the military came to their camp and recruited volunteers. Only then did they learn that the enemy was almost on the Volga!
And he was VERY LUCKY! Before the first battle, and they were brought to tear the defenses, everyone was poured into a glass of either alcohol or vodka. He refused. He spoke terribly, even though the reaction was quick. The comrades also consumed his portion. One rifle for three. And it's 43! Year and type attack aircraft! In this battle, they still broke into the Dreich trenches. He was wounded in the arm and leg. Average overall. Therefore, the type washed off with blood, then the rear of the hospital and already in the combat unit fought on with the mechvod on the columbine.
And from their assault group, as he estimated, 270-300 people remained on their feet and forty whole people.
So 1.4% that is constantly on the front end is a lot.

[mat-vey]

Quote: dgonni

One rifle for three.

Well, the rest were given cuttings from shovels and halves of bricks.

[Foul skeptic]

So he got his 5 years for the collective farm ears of corn in the 40th year as a kid.

And in more detail it is possible, as in 1940 (!!!) a kid (!) For an ear of corn (!) Got an "five" (!)?

[Alexfly]

Do not forget that the war was won not by the marshals, but by the common people "from the plow," so to speak. And there was every nation, both workers and peasants, and the intelligentsia, and former convicts. Those who were more agile and who were just lucky survived. In Soviet times, they did not talk about the detachments, about the convicts, too, so the "demanded" films came out, with a grain of truth .... But I believe, I do not believe, this is for Stanislavsky! In what modern film is this without blunders? Name! Let's check ....

[Misha Smirnov_2]

The war was lost to the Germans in the very first year of the war.
After 4 years, Russians were burned in fake battles. Therefore, the form is prisoners.
The country was occupied by the Germans until 2005. Judging by the standard of living.
Nowadays, there are significantly more Russians living in Russia as Germans ... We communicate in a Germanized language.
Moscow for the architecture of the USSR is a copy of Berlin.
Gestapo, this is a guest and a sneaker. Only in the USSR was it customary to give slippers to guests. Apartments in the USSR are the Gestapo ..
Boilers with Russian partisans existed until 1995.
The standard of living, lack of meat, cars, hard labor of workers, scum, censorship, passport regime ...
Three currencies in the 90s: the dollar, the Japanese yen, the German Deutschmark .... Well. Who won the war?
DOS Windows - OS countries ...

So far, 3 streams with gas to Germany ...
Hitler advanced along the line of Arkhangelsk and Astrakhan and took all these territories. Then the Americans got involved, and now there is a war between them.

[fyvaprold]

Quote: Misha Smirnov_2

The war was lost to the Germans in the very first year of the war.
After 4 years, Russians were burned in fake battles. Therefore, the form is prisoners.
The country was occupied by the Germans until 2005... Judging by the standard of living.
Nowadays, there are significantly more Russians living in Russia as Germans ... We communicate in a Germanized language.
Moscow for the architecture of the USSR is a copy of Berlin.
Gestapo, this is a guest and a sneaker. Only in the USSR was it customary to give slippers to guests. Apartments in the USSR are the Gestapo..
Boilers with Russian partisans existed until 1995.
The standard of living, lack of meat, cars, hard labor of workers, scum, censorship, passport regime ...
Three currencies in the 90s: the dollar, the Japanese yen, the German Deutschmark .... Well. Who won the war?
DOS Windows - OS countries ...

So far, 3 streams with gas to Germany ...
Hitler advanced along the line of Arkhangelsk and Astrakhan and took all these territories. Then the Americans got involved, and now there is a war between them.

The fence is, however, you have grass! Will you introduce the dealer? Or is it COVID that affects your psyche? I’ll give you a free piece of advice - stop reading any alternative rubbish, read better Vitaly Bianchi, he writes about nature, about animals. Very soothing.

[Misha Smirnov_2]

Yeltsin is a Swede .. Putin (the one who speaks on TV) is a German.
The Germans keep pauses in conversation.

I live in St. Petersburg, the Mannerheim line is fresher than many apartment buildings by the color of concrete ... We left Leningrad, which was captured by the Germans to the Karelian Isthmus ...

[Bat039]

In fact, only 1 division was formed from ZEKs during the Second World War. Is this a lot, or not enough ?! This is more than nothing, especially since, according to reviews from the front, the division fought not for fear, but for conscience, but this is nothing, against the background of the total number of divisions of the Red Army during the Second World War. Were the ZEKs infringed at the front ?! In general, not, except for the fact that the division formed from the ZEKs was the last in the Red Army, during the Second World War, received the title of the Guards.

[Amatar]

Personally, after such articles, I have a strong impression that the authors themselves, within the framework of one article, first create a myth, and then they themselves refute it.