The second serial fighter Su-57 of the pilot batch made its first flight

The second serial fighter Su-57 made its first flight over Komsomolsk-on-Amur. According to local social networks, "the second first Su-57" took to the skies for the first time and successfully landed.

According to the report, the first flight of the serial Su-57 took place at the KnAAZ airfield (Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation plant). Earlier, the aircraft plant promised that the plane would take off by the end of October. The transfer of the fighter to the Ministry of Defense will take place before the end of the year.

In social networks, this Su-57 was called "the second first serial", since the first serial fifth-generation fighter from an installation batch of two aircraft for the Russian Aerospace Forces crashed on December 24, 2019 during a test flight. After this incident, all flights of the Su-57 were suspended.

Currently, KnAAZ is fulfilling a 2019 contract for the supply of the Russian Aerospace Forces of 76 Su-57 fighters to equip three aviation regiments. The start of deliveries of aircraft under this contract is scheduled for 2021, completion is planned for 2027.

As previously reported, the first production fighters will go to the troops with the engine of the first stage, and it is planned to receive the Su-57 equipped with the engine of the second stage from 2025.

Comments

[Observer2014]

Thank you God. We waited for the second. There are 74 pieces left to wait. Plus one for the lost during the test flight.

[VORON538]

And when will your Ukraine release itself even a model of the aircraft?

[Grandfather]

equipped with a second stage engine, the Su-57 is planned to be received from 2025.

wow ... this is how many years development has been going on? three years in the air tests are already underway, and only after 5! years to put .... tin. what's going on there?

[Deck]

In the United States, they are already alarmed and scared, and the F22 lost and the F35 lost, there is nothing to say about the Chengdu J-20. When the third is released, the Pentagon will crawl to surrender to the Russian embassy. Maybe you shouldn't bother with construction when the results are already stunning?

[Temples]

Quote: Deck

When the third Pentagon will crawl to surrender ...

Quote: Deck

And when is your Ukraine ...

Quote: Dead Day

wow ... how many years has it been developing? ...

The circus left, but the clowns stayed.

[asr55]

Your masters are alarmed even by the su-30mki / micron air forces of India and Malaysia, which have wiped dry and are wiping their nose in training battles with f-16, f-15, Eurofighter Typhoon fighters. A fabulous air bubble about EPR with a tennis ball and other nonsense has burst for a long time. .And your F-35 Mig-29 will spank like a child. Although I think if Ukraine transfers the special canister to NATO pilots, there may be some result. https://svpressa.ru/post/article/104405/ note the link to the liberal resource. https://tehnowar.ru/48015-su-30-protiv-f-22a-raptor-su-nachinaet-i-vyigryvaet.html

[Nosgoth]

You probably wanted to say - Chochlopithecus

[iouris]

Quote: Observer2014

Plus one for the lost

So three. Three is a lot. In the 1980s, the Irkutsk plant produced thirty ... forty MiG-27s a month. Also MAPO, where they made the MiG-23. In 1982, after the Lebanese embarrassment, about a hundred planes were sent to Syria in the fall.

[Observer2014]

Quote: iouris

Quote: Observer2014

Plus one for the lost

So three. Three is a lot. In the 1980s, the Irkutsk plant produced thirty ... forty MiG-27s a month. Also MAPO, where they made the MiG-23. In 1982, after the Lebanese embarrassment, about a hundred planes were sent to Syria in the fall.

Don't tell anyone else about it. Better to trust in the Lord.

[iouris]

And I don't tell anyone (only you, but you know how to keep military secrets, you understand the policy of the CPSU correctly ...).

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: iouris

And I don't tell anyone (only you, but you know how to keep military secrets

Please continue to speak. For the sake of such comments as yours, I continue to read VO. Article --- 0, comments --- everything.
That way, I will agree to skoka Tu-ninety-five falltsmite at a local aircraft plant.
I live in a private house. You go out at night in shorts, Cicadas are singing around, "grasshoppers". Generally silence. And then .... the roar of turbines exploding the silence of Bezymyanka. "One more" I think, and the night is not so dark ... A wonderful night, but this is not always. It is understandable. Specialists are not scattered on the roads and therefore the construction of an auxiliary workshop will not solve the problem. In the main assembly, 10% of employment. Tu-nineties. I'm leading to that. To the plant reachable by the cannon artillery of the PLA. Bongo knows, but is silent about the entire program 57, about the capabilities of the plant and about a specific board. Maintaining military secrets is gut. Super gut. Well, why, Warm greetings from the shores of Mother Volga. Good fishing / you have a nice fish there ... / And more planes

[Saxahorse]

Quote: Observer2014

There are 74 pieces left to wait

Without a full-fledged 5th generation engine and the right body kit, there is nowhere to rush. So far there is only one building at the parades. A real combat vehicle is just beginning to be born.

[asr55]

You are waiting for us, do not worry, they will appear without you. Better read https://tehnowar.ru/48015-su-30-protiv-f-22a-raptor-su-nachinaet-i-vyigryvaet.html, also https://svpressa.ru/post/article/104405/

[BLADFROST]

I would live .....))))

[Voyager]

78 in total. 2 more ordered pre-production at the very beginning and one of them crashed.

[Arthur 85]

Lord, well, finally! God forbid, even though I am an atheist, that there are hundreds of them. And sea-based - too.

[Herman 4223]

And a couple of thousand unmanned drums.

[VO3A]

An attack UAV with an information exchange radius of less than 150 km has no practical meaning. It is successfully replaced by a conventional UAV providing target designation for artillery systems and MLRS with corrected ammunition. It is more effective and much cheaper to use, even taking into account this bundle ... Put your tambourine and stop dancing around the fire of stupidity ...

[Arthur 85]

Not a specialist, but what will happen to drones if a 5 kT air blast occurs? If they turn into trash, then it is futile to develop them.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Arthur 85

what will happen to drones in case of a 5 kT air blast?

How far from the epicenter?

[PCF]

An air explosion has an EPICenter ??? I went to reread textbooks and dictionaries

[Captain Pushkin]

Come back, don't waste dictionaries.
Epicenter (from the Greek ἐπι "over-, pri-" + Latin centrum "center") - the perpendicular projection of the central point of the explosion on the surface of the Earth

[PCF]

... well, let me think further ...
This is the epicenter of everything, the illiterate scribblers-zhurnalizdoff, they use the word "epicenter" nraiizzo, with explosives you need to be extremely accurate, because it is fraught with ...
Under the air blast, there will be an "infracenter" on the surface

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: PCF

Under the air blast, there will be an "infracenter" on the surface

Will the drone be on the surface of the earth? So it was necessary to write right away.
Then it is easier to organize a tsunami (according to Sakharov's recipe). And if there is no water nearby, invite ukrov, they will quickly dig the sea.

[PCF]

Kaamrad, don't give me a MOSC, just explain where the EPICenter is near the air nuclear explosion

[Captain Pushkin]

Epicenter is the perpendicular projection of the central point of the explosion source onto the Earth's surface.

Everything seems to be clear. Have you completely forgotten descriptive geometry?
PS If you ask, I can repeat it once or twice ...

[Captain Pushkin]

The patient seems to be stubborn, so I will repeat in expanded form:
The epicenter of a nuclear explosion (English ground zero) is the projection onto the earth's or water surface of the point of the center of a nuclear explosion. This is a point on the surface:
- under which an underground or underwater nuclear explosion occurred;
- over which an air or high-altitude nuclear explosion occurred;
- on which a ground or surface nuclear explosion occurred (then the epicenter coincides with the center of the explosion).

[PCF]

Yes, buddy ... Quotes from pedivikia gagged my mouth. I made fun of myself there in a couple of topics, though then they demolished everything.
I do not want to poke at the local wording and writing of texts by all and sundry. Just look in the dictionary what is EPI-, INFRA- and GIPO-
Somehow in production I tried to convey to the deputy head of the department the difference between the terms "frozen and thawed", but it did not work. He got along in his head and defrosting meat / refrigerator (thawing) and defrosting the heating system (freezing), he did not see CONTRADICTIONS, are you the same?
Py.Sy. Our school military instructor would have invented a very exotic punishment for broadcasting such shit. And drag the drops (teacher of OMP) from my study, you ... thought and dried

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: PCF

Just look in the dictionary for what EPI is,

Epicenter (from the Greek ἐπι "over-, pri-" + Latin centrum "center")
Sorry for suggesting that you / you have forgotten (and) descriptive geometry - this seems to be an unknown phrase at all.
If you remain in your opinion, so be it.
That shop manager does not seem to be alone in his delusions.
And which of us is mistaken, in this case, for a nuclear explosion is completely indifferent.

[PCF]

Everything was fine with geometry, drafting and so on. I just forgot that the terms should be negotiated "on the shore" and not argued.
And after a vigorous explosion, only Epitaphia will remain

[Winnie76]

Shooting down UAVs with vigorous ammunition is powerful. And the main thing is economically justified. Think broadly Arthur, I envy

[Garris199]

Then it is better to immediately throw the nucleus around the country - the UAV operator. I think it will solve the problem guaranteed.

[Alexey Sommer]

The same as with any modern manned aircraft.
And here and there electronics rules. Traction cables from the steering wheel, pedals and throttle stick to the control planes of the tail unit and the throttle valve of the engine carburetor remained in the first half of the 20th century. Now all this is called the fly-by-wire control system, abbreviated as EDSU - an aircraft control system that provides the transmission of control signals from the controls in the cockpit (for example, from the aircraft control stick, rudder pedals) to the actuators of aerodynamic surfaces (rudders and takeoff and landing mechanization wing) and engine.
So for a nuclear explosion and an electromagnetic pulse on manned aircraft and UAVs of the same size, the consequences will be the same, or a skiff, if the pulse is powerful enough to disable the electronics, or fuck both.

[Arthur 85]

H'm. Well, then there is no point in monstering all this stealth, UHT, and so on. For the real war will be one, the first and the last. And the electronics must be either on the lamps, or there must be two circuits. One - light burning, for the fight with the barmaley, and the second - real - for the last fight.

[Vlad_S]

The lamanshists drove up

[Leeds]

Quote: VO3A

An attack UAV with an information exchange radius of less than 150 km has no practical meaning. It is successfully replaced by a conventional UAV ...........

Armenia will confirm ...

[Object.F7]

You are the one who builds the fire of stupidity if you do not see the difference between piston propeller-driven UAVs-slow-moving aircraft and an UAV with a turbojet engine that allows you to fly up to 0,8 M. The question of speed in aviation has always been at the forefront and nothing has changed in the 21st century. Local battles in the front line using artillery is one thing, and a high-speed breakthrough into the deep rear is quite another. And separately, you can still talk about the conquest of air supremacy, what can screw sneeze-puffs offer, what air-to-air means do they have? There is nothing even to compare

[Arthur 85]

Um, what prevents the An-2 from adding modern air-to-air missiles? Yes, damn it, throw them out of the bomb bay with your hands ... And they will be guided by an AWACS aircraft five kilometers higher, and 50 kilometers behind.

[Leeds]

There is no bomb. You will have to expand the porthole with a grinder. But you were told that it is possible to fight with nuclear weapons, I'm afraid something might go wrong from a shock or light wave in the An-2.

[Arthur 85]

It means that everything that can go wrong must be thrown out the window, right after the rocket. (And the parachute for the political officer too). Then go below the radio horizon and turn home.

[Herman 4223]

Put your tambourine and put out the fire in the apartment, it's a fire dangerous.

[BLADFROST]

A directed beam of an electromagnetic pulse and a UAV falls by a piece of scrap metal.

[Rudkovsky]

Thousands. That would surely repeat the fate of the USSR.

[Bez 310]

Quote: Arthur 85

And sea-based - too.

I'm a little confused ...
"Sea-based" - how's that?

[Arthur 85]

Well, the Fu-35 exists in three guises: just the Fu-35, VTOL aircraft, and the horizontal takeoff deck. I would like it to be the same with us - both for the helicopter carrier and for the aircraft carrier.

[Bez 310]

Quote: Arthur 85

and for an aircraft carrier

We do not have an aircraft carrier, and will not.
And the Su-57 will only be in the usual version,
and not the fact that he will go to the troops.

[Arthur 85]

Well, you can't even dream already?

[Bez 310]

Quote: Arthur 85

you can't even dream?

You can dream of health!

[Navigator Basov]

Why do we need an aircraft carrier? Are we going to win someone? It seems like foreign aircraft carriers are on the shore, and so we can wait, because there is something.

[Marconi41]

Quote: Bez 310

Quote: Arthur 85

and for an aircraft carrier

and not the fact that he will go to the troops.

Where will they go to this serial?

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Bez 310

We do not have an aircraft carrier, and will not.

Oh how! But I didn’t know!

Quote: Bez 310

And the Su-57 will only be in the usual version,

What is it like? Quite, quite ... - "normal"? But what about the declared invisibility, the electronic warfare system, photonics and other goodies?
And you say - "normal"!

Quote: Bez 310

not the fact that he will go to the troops.

But what about the contract for 76 units? What about the three regiments? Who will lead the S-70?
Therefore (as the English say!):
"If you want to have a reputation for being smart,
SAVE YOUR STUPIDITY! "(C)
Best regards,

[Bez 310]

Oh, just don't ...
That trough that constantly stands in
repair, and is unlikely to come to life, we have
considered an aircraft carrier.
"Normal" - not "sea" and not VTOL aircraft.
Contract, 76 aircraft, 3 regiments? While
the troops do not have a single aircraft.
S-70? Perhaps in 10 years ...
Continue to believe the reports of the future
achievements? Oh well...
In general, remember more often that
speak the British and no one will be over
laugh with you.

[Voyager]

Quote: Bez 310

Contract, 76 aircraft, 3 regiments? While
the troops do not have a single aircraft.

The Ukrainians about 5 years ago had such a joke of humor, such as a mockery: when they announced the start of the construction of the Crimean bridge, they immediately asked with a smile, "Well, have they built the bridge?"
You are now doing exactly the same thing.

[Bez 310]

What am I doing?
The fact is that I still found those times
when the regiment, having retrained for the "backfire"
at the training center, flew away from retraining
on new aircraft.
And stop dreaming, we have already "seen" the "Armat" shelves ...

[Voyager]

What am I doing?

Cheap verbiage. Throws from 57, whose production is just beginning, to Armata, which is undergoing development and refinement. The F-35 took off for the first time 15 years ago and no one cries.

[Bez 310]

Everything is as usual...
Do not try to offend or offend the commentator,
better use arguments if you have them.
Are you confused by my reference to "Armata"? So after all, the Su-57
goes according to the same program - not in service with the RF Armed Forces.

[Voyager]

Do not try to turn the statement of facts into an attempt to "offend". You yourself determine by your actions whether you are verbiage or not.

Quote: Bez 310

So after all, the Su-57
goes according to the same program - in service with the RF Armed Forces

And it shouldn't be at the moment, given that the program is just beginning.

Everything is like by analogy with the bridge above:
- The Russian Federation begins to build the Crimean bridge, planning to complete work in late xnumx...
- Ukrainians in 2016: ALREADY BUILT?

That's how you break through the bottom.

Placed a large order. Production is just starting, with deadlines 2020-2027 with deliveries of units in the first years and a multiple increase in production in subsequent years ... as there is a certain Bez 310 in the same 2020 and immediately gives out:
Shaw ?! Serial guides !? Where in the troops ?! Disorder!

[Bez 310]

Let's finish, it makes no sense.
We are tired of slogans, we are tired of reports about future victories.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Bez 310

So far, there is not a single aircraft in the troops.

So far - yes, there is not a single Su-57 yet ... HOWEVER!

In December of this year, during a single day of acceptance of military products, the military department will receive the first serial Su-57 with a standard engine of the second stage, in 2021 - four more such aircraft
- quotes the news agency (TASS) the words of the source.

According to the interlocutor of TASS, in the future the rate of production of fifth generation fighters will increase up to 15 aircraft per year, which, as a result, will allow until 2028 to fulfill a contract signed in 2019 for 76 fighters for the Aerospace Forces.

In general, remember more often what the English say, and no one will laugh at you.

[Bez 310]

To believe in our media is not to respect yourself.

[DominickS]

You first wait for the completion of this contract, and only then hint at someone's stupidity.

[seregin-s1]

What can you say here? God grant they will be transferred to the troops!

[Nikolay Ivanov_5]

Let the number of take-offs be equal to the number of landings.

[Navigator Basov]

Captain Banality?

[Deniso]

The second "first" has gone!

[fa2998]

Let's clarify - the second "first" with the "first" (4th generation engine) We will not see the "real" Su-57 for several years.
RS-Americans, their "bad" F-35 by that time will probably release 1000 units.

[Arthur 85]

In / in Ukraine, before each New Year, they launched an advertisement for Coca-Cola "sacredly nablyzhaetsya" (the holiday is approaching). We are waiting for byborov in America and ..., ..., ... F 35 is broken with an excavator in order to save money on their maintenance. Give the F35 hood in every shower in the USA!

[Grandfather]

Quote: fa2998

Americans, their "bad" F-35 by that time will probably release 1000 units.

the fu-35 will become obsolete, the other is already being developed by the Yankes.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: fa2998

We will not see the Su-57 for several years.
RS-Americans, their "bad" F-35 by that time will probably release 1000 units.

It is possible without "probably", now 35 F-550 units are produced, 140-160 units are produced per year. The 2023th F1000 is guaranteed to be released in 35. "Iron" orders until 2026-27, the entire F35 program is calculated until 2037.

[BLADFROST]

So maybe the Yankees and pilots are worthless. Plant kamikaze and business then.

[Deniso]

Let this one be really the first serial and fly for a long, long time, before being written off.

[rocket757]

If you try to reason objectively ... but still slips into the subjective. The process is going on for a long time!
Even such a statement that it is better for a long time, but, in reality, it is good to do, is not very inspiring! Because a potential adversary / competitor, all this time will not stand still, but will bring to an acceptable, combat level, what has already created and will begin to do something new, better than the previous one.
Take your time slowly, in the military realm often leads to ... unacceptable y! Because whoever did not have time, he was late! Maybe it will.

[DAQ]

The process is going on for a long time!

And further it will not be easy.
With each new generation, the technique becomes more and more complex.
There are still many upgrades and modifications ahead.

[rocket757]

The technique is more difficult, no doubt! But the question is that the production, technological, scientific, production base should also grow.
With a base that is stuck at the level of the last century, where will we go ???
Everything must be harmoniously combined, then it will be, and not ooh, ooh, ah, as always!

[mitroha]

I understand. But please answer, in a global conflict, how much will this high-tech technology be enough, or, shall we say, in the course of a war, how realistic is it to produce EXPENSIVE, high-tech, and also taking into account the fact that there is a cooperation of manufacturers, weapons? Will it not turn out that it will be necessary to produce what was a generation or two ago, if, of course, competencies are not lost. And most likely the equipment that has been removed from conservation will go into battle. I somehow see it that way

[rocket757]

Global conflict with WHOM? And what is this magnitude, a global conflict? Who and what is the meaning of this definition?
So it is believed that it is not possible to start a conflict against a vigorous state, as well as a conflict between vigorous powers ...
And everything else, this is a small-town showdown, in which everything happens in different ways, depending on the strength and armament and the opposing sides. It is in them that advanced technology can manifest itself, giving an advantage to the side with such a technique!
Do you think the Turkish F 16 could shoot down the Su 57 with impunity, on the sly? It seems to me that I simply would not risk it!
This is the technological advantage that new, modern technology gives!
The confrontation of F 22, F 35, against our, Chinese, modern technology, is not yet foreseen .... but in the world there are so many different things that you have to be ready for anything! So it will be more reliable.

[mitroha]

Quote: rocket757

So it is believed that it is not possible to start a conflict against a vigorous state, as well as a conflict between vigorous powers ...

And who is it considered? This someone is giving a tooth, like?
What nonsense. You, as a boy, all your arguments are considered, I think, it seems to me .... For a local conflict with the Papuans, an instant-29 and a su-35 are enough, and even those behind the back.
A global conflict implies the participation of the world's leading powers, including those possessing nuclear weapons, which, rest assured, will be used in this conflict one way or another. Is this a sufficient explanation of my question for you?
If there is a desire, I would still like to hear your opinion.

[rocket757]

Quote: Mitroha

For a local conflict with the Papuans, a moment-29 and a su-35 are enough,

I do not consider this option at all! The Papuans DO NOT ATTACK a serious power, so start a war, and when a power attacks a knowingly weak enemy, it is NOT a WAR, it is an act of banditry on an international scale.

Quote: Mitroha

A global conflict implies the participation of the world's leading powers, including those possessing nuclear weapons, which, rest assured, will be used in this conflict one way or another.

There is such a prediction, predictions, but .... there are many predictions in general, and not all of them come true. While no one dares to check how it can happen, because how to destroy the enemy and be destroyed by himself, the prospect is not attractive.
I am not a prophet, I will not wonder how it will be .... I will not argue how it could be the same, this is for dreamers, they have a lot of ideas, different.

[cat Rusich]

Quote: rocket757

Quote: Mitroha

For a local conflict with the Papuans, a moment-29 and a su-35 are enough,

I do not consider this option at all! Papuans DO NOT ATTACK a serious power, so start a war,

Syria is an example of the fact that a "nuclear power" is at war with "armed formations" but "CANNOT use" nuclear weapons (it can, but ...). And "old men go into battle" - they have to fight with conventional weapons. In the Syrian war, enough to operate from the air Su-25, Mi-35 and even Super Tukano turboprop from Brazil ...
You can even recall the Argentina-British War of 1982 - Nuclear-free Argentina attacked Nuclear Britain ... And if Britain had two aircraft carriers Hermes and Invisible against one aircraft carrier "May 25" from Argentina ("Venable" "born" in 1945 in Britain ...) it is not yet known how it would have turned out ... A hint at the TARK "Admiral Kuznetsov" and its possible "replacements" (which are not ...). However, the aircraft carrier "May 25" did not dare to engage in battle and "retreated without a fight" - its aircraft wing "worked" from land ...

[rocket757]

Quote: cat Rusich

Syria - as an example of a "nuclear power"

I DID NOT WRITE that such conflicts do not exist at all, I DO NOT CONSIDER them, because they are local and often remain invisible to the rest of the world.
Syria, this is a typical situation when some interested parties "fanned" the internal conflict to "universal" proportions, so sho other responsible, but also interested parties, had to stop it, push until .... in general, there is still sho pushing, from for that, sho interested among themselves are not .....

[mitroha]

Quote: rocket757

Do you think the Turkish F 16 could shoot down the Su 57 with impunity, on the sly? It seems to me that I simply would not risk it!
This is the technological advantage that new, modern technology gives!

No, technology has nothing to do with it. It depends more on the position and material of manufacture of the power textual. We had the simplest weapon, and all of Europe was on the side of Germany, but the Turks did not dare to enter World War II, it would seem ...

[rocket757]

Quote: Mitroha

... We had the simplest weapon

Who is it who determined that we had the simplest weapon?
I have not heard this from any SPECIALIST!
Do you think that our ancestors fought with slingshots and bows?
There were some positions in which the Germans, the united GEYROPA had a technological advantage, but with proper organization and tactical skill, all this could be leveled !!! What our most competent, trained generals and commanders have repeatedly demonstrated !!!
In general, excuse me for being straightforward, but this is bullshit, and you'd better learn the mate part.
P.S. The tragic events of the initial stage of the war are a tangle of various reasons, least of all related to our weapons, and most of all to failures in organization, preparation and other political stupidity, which then had to be corrected, eliminated, with heavy losses.

[mitroha]

You do not splash saliva, speak more calmly and your thought will probably penetrate to the interlocutor's head faster.
In the meantime, you are so overexcited, let's break the dialogue, I respect you for many of your comments and line of thinking, and I would not like to tell you nasty things. Therefore let's say ... timeout

[rocket757]

Non problems.
If you are going to prove ... pick up comparable positions, where the enemy's technique was super duper, and we have no ice ...

[mitroha]

Quote: rocket757

Non problems.
If you are going to prove ... pick up comparable positions, where the enemy's technique was super duper, and we have no ice ...

The second part of your answer comes from a misunderstanding of my post on this topic. Therefore, I only take into account the first half.

[rocket757]

Quote: Mitroha

We had the simplest weapon

What does it mean?
Tenologically backward or made according to a simplified technology, in view of the good work of our designers, who worked out the manufacturing process with simple technological methods ???
A good example, by the way, is a PPS machine !!! Simple, stamping, can be made even in a pan artel, with the exception of barrels, of course !!!
After all, it's really simple, and until now modern weapons experts admire the design work of Soviet gunsmiths!
The ACCURACY of expressions is needed, then there will be no MISUALITIES.

[mitroha]

in 41, the Red Army was one half in 1914-1920, and the other in 1941-1950, but simply put, there was rearmament, and together with the leapfrog in the command staff, for well-known reasons, we started the war with a crowd of three lines and untrained or poorly trained people \ s and k \ s.
But that's not what I was talking about. We did not have an advantage for generations in weapons, over the Turkish army of 1941, but nevertheless they did not enter the war, which means it depended not only on weapons, but on the seriousness of the words and weighty arguments of the country's leadership. And this, I believe, applies not only to that period. As they say, a serious fighter does not have to engage in battle, it is enough for him to indicate his capabilities. Yours faithfully

[rocket757]

"sometimes it is impossible not to enter a war, because it is impossible not to enter!" - what they just do not come up with, what would be justified.
WHY - I will not argue sales. too many well-established "most correct" opinions.
It is possible to compare our and German armies, technically, quantitatively, the Germans did not have an overwhelming advantage in everything and always ... but everything else, seemingly not the most important, as many in the Soviet leadership believed, turned out to be the main reason for many failures in the first stages war, and then still affected for a long time !!!

Quote: Mitroha

we started the war with a crowd of three-rulers and untrained or poorly trained l / s and k / s.

By the way, the three-line, though not young, quite worthy, military weapon in skillful hands! The German Mauser was no better ... machine guns and their troops were not very many. Machine gun, yes, the tactics of the subunits were built around it and the saturation of the troops was sufficient.
At the expense of training l / s, command and officer personnel, appropriate combat experience, the Germans were doing well ... until our ancestors thinned out the experienced, trained !!!
At the final stages of the war, the Germans already suffered from poor training of the l / s, and the fighting spirit was not ice!

[mitroha]

Victor, I spoke about the Red Army only in the light of why and why the Turks did not enter the war in 41-45, and then I placed the main emphasis on the merits of the will of our leadership at that time, and for some reason you considered the main topic of the state Red Army and its weapons.

[rocket757]

The political leadership of the country, namely, it decided, had the characteristics of very decisive leaders.
The Turkish leadership knew this and made decisions based on this, the situation of that time, according to previous experience.

[Igor Semenov]

And if a conflict happens on the territory of a proxy? I propose to consider a speculative situation - one of the NATO countries is attacking the Khmeimim base with conventional weapons. Is this Casus belli for the use of nuclear weapons? It seems to be not ... or is it? I dont know. Of course, no one declares war on anyone. It's not fashionable now

[rocket757]

The question is complex and no one will give, right at once, an exact answer.
They will offer probabilities .... and this is akin to fortune telling. Believe it or not.

[Navigator Basov]

So the global conflict is already underway, planes are almost never used in it, more and more crazy Swedish schoolgirls, Kolya from Urengoy, tweets and Facebook.

[BLADFROST]

It is enough to create a reserve for mass production, and not to rivet in large quantities. Fu 35 is capricious, like a young woman for marriage - their service is extremely costly!

[Sinugambi]

The series goes slowly, very slowly, like the newest air defense systems in the troops ..

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

There is no need to panic, the S-400 alone in the troops of 69 divisions (33 regiments) normally goes to the air defense forces, and this process continues.

There is no need to tear the veins while there is no need, but we want to do it faster, but even so we are re-equipping ourselves well in all directions, while the economy can withstand it calmly, and reserves are growing.

[Sinugambi]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

There is no need to panic, the S-400 alone in the troops of 69 divisions (33 regiments) normally goes to the air defense forces, and this process continues.

I don’t panic, but some here on the site are panicking and shouting that it’s time to give up)))

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

There is no need to tear the veins while there is no need, but we want to do it faster, but even so we are re-equipping ourselves well in all directions, while the economy can withstand it calmly, and reserves are growing.

I agree, as the saying goes, "The caravan is going, the dogs are barking .." And this is terribly ruining our liberda - the fifth column .. Which is very pleasing !!!!!

[rocket757]

What are the main components of a normal air defense, missile defense ???
incl. the corresponding AVIATION component !!!
Who hasn't it reached yet ???

[fa2998]

The area of ​​the country is over 17 square kilometers, 000000 regiments per regiment of over 33 square kilometers is the area of ​​France.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

You will calculate the area in tanks, and in the border guard the length of the border)))

Air defense systems do not cover every centimeter of our territory, but the directions from which the enemy can strike and important objects inside the country.

33 S-400 regiment is at a market price of 33 BILLION DOLLARS !!!

In addition to the S-400, in Russia, the sky is protected by such modern air defense systems as Pantsir, TOP, BUK, S-350 and Su-30/35 and MiG-31 fighter aircraft.

The skies of Russia are reliably protected, and so much so that no one even thinks of an air attack on Russia.

So, there is no need to cut the budget, social and infrastructure projects in favor of urgent delivery of the Su-57 to the troops.

[BLADFROST]

I agree. Moreover, the production is adjusted for 1/3 of the production output and at any time it is possible to triple, at least. What pleases. I know about air defense. Hopefully there is something similar with planes.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Although the tenth is the first serial, the main thing is that he went to the troops reliable.

We have time and money to do as much as necessary.

[c2020]

We have time and money to do as much as necessary.

Without item "30" it is a 4th generation fighter. In the United States, the first flight has already made a concept of a 6th generation fighter, probably with a 6th generation variable cycle engine. We are already 2 generations behind and continue to rivet the 4th generation. Papuans in one word.

[Fungus]

Considering that f35 is a continuous marriage, yes. American Papuans compared to us.

[VORON538]

you have long lagged behind, here you are right
Square no longer builds ships or aircraft

[Sergey Kulikov_3]

Quote: c2020

Without item "30" it is a 4th generation fighter.

What is the list of 5th generation serial fighters that fulfill all the characteristics required for the 5th generation?

[Incvizitor]

Each has its own characteristics for the 5th generation, fshe fu must be "pulled up" to the 5th in order to vparivat suckers.

[VO3A]

Do you have any idea what this 5th generation is? Someone came up with five signs and the rest, like parrots repeat! Without a global Combat Information System, into which the aircraft must enter, it is not a 2th generation aircraft even with Stage 5 engines! This is the main condition for the existence of a 5th generation aircraft. Is that clear to you? The Saudis will not have an F35 aircraft of the 5th generation without an American information system, and they do not have their own ... and never will ...

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: c2020

Without product "30" it is a 4th generation fighter

Nonsense. Who has a non-afterburner supersonic sound? Well? This fake was invented - it is generally unknown who. By the way, the Su 35 goes to supersonic without afterburner, if not full combat load. And his engine is 41st ...

[VO3A]

I would like to continue your topic. In general, I offered to cheaply and angrily finish the SU-35 to a 5th generation aircraft at minimal cost, and along with the general upgrade for invisibility, also to build an internal removable compartment between the engines for weapons in "low visibility" mode ...

[OgnennyiKotik]

I also see this as the best option, the money should have been spent on AWACS aircraft and tankers, but the Su-57 has already been launched, it needs to be brought to series.
There are examples of F / A-18E / F "Advanced Super Hornet" and F-15SE Silent Eagle

[not 1]

What is the evidence that the Su 35 goes to supersonic without afterburner (also in a wide range of heights)? I admit that it can support non-afterburner supersonic under certain conditions. But as far as I remember, many aircraft of 3-5 generations can do such a trick.

[nks]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Who has a non-afterburner supersonic sound? Well?

rafal, typhoon, f-22

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Su 35 goes to supersonic without afterburner, if not full combat load

1,2M is a transonic sound and not a "full combat load", but simply without load and with a minimum fuel remaining. So mirage-2000, for example, can

[Mountain shooter]

https://pikabu.ru/story/razbor_nekotoryikh_rasprostranennyikh_mifov_o_f22a_i_su35s_5351695
Well, how would ... About Rafael now, too, I'll look ...

[nks]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Well, how would ..

What "how"?

Quote: Mountain Shooter

I'll also look about Raphael now ..

The plane is called Rafal.

[Mountain shooter]

Rafal of course, but only T9 does not know about it. As well as I can not find references to cruising supersonic from him. Share?

[nks]

Oddly enough, everything can be found through the wiki.
At the very bottom it is underlined

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: nks

At the very bottom it is underlined

Well, with 6 missiles and almost dry tanks at an unknown height. And as much as 1.4 M !!! I readily believe ...

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: nks

rafal, typhoon,

All right, they are "5th generation" according to local commentators

[nks]

"Generation" doesn't matter - in this case, it's nothing more than a marketing term. The generation number plate does not affect the performance of tasks in any way.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Therefore, I write this way, below I explain this to people there, for the sixth generation, the criteria were approved

[Dmitry Zadorozhniy]

F22 was in fact written off. F35 with wild shoals and restrictions. Decommissioned before being born. How long did it take to finish the "crane"? Until he became what he is. And about such a sign of the 5th generation as super-maneuverability, there is no need to talk about "fighters". How to get away from missiles? And the non-afterburner supersonic sound? Also on "fighters" is not observed. The penguin also drops its tail. Therefore, "partners" can experience even the "hundredth" generation.

[VO3A]

The F35 is the only aircraft of the 5th generation ... Such features as super-maneuverability and supersonic without afterburner are secondary and pale in comparison with invisibility and the most developed entry into the LSI ...

[mister-red]

Quote: VO3A

F35 is the only aircraft of the 5th generation ...

The Chinese will be offended.
But in general, why actually the only one, F-22 did not hold out?

Quote: VO3A

F Such signs as super-maneuverability and supersonic without afterburner are secondary and pale in comparison with invisibility and the most developed entry into the LSI ...

invisible by whom?

[Navigator Basov]

Well, he thinks that the F-35 is really invisible, like "Marshmallow-1" in the series "Agents of SHIELD." or some "Babylon 5".

[Incvizitor]

Well yes epr 0.0000000000000001

[bayard]

Quote: Dmitriy Zadorozhniy

F22 in fact written off

Nobody copied them, on the contrary - they cherish them.
Moreover, there were reports that the United States is preparing to resume the construction of the F-22 in a modernized form and to modernize the entire existing fleet. Israel insists on delivering 20-30 F-22s to it, and it looks like it has already received guarantees for this.
Many other US allies are also willing to join the program.
And this is not good news for Russia and China.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: bayard

Moreover, there were reports that the United States is preparing to resume the construction of the F-22 in a modernized form and to modernize the entire existing fleet. Israel insists on delivering 20-30 F-22s to it, and it looks like it has already received guarantees for this.

Restarting production is very expensive. If you need to start producing new F22s, you need 1-2 years to process F22s for modern technologies, 2-3 years to train the plant and specialists, then it will start producing 10-15 units per year, just by the 30s 20-30 new ones will be made. At the same time, it is impossible that the F35 project would suffer.
The "next generation" fighter prototype is already in the air, with the F / A-XX slated to enter production by 2030.
So there is no point in starting production of the F22. On the contrary, it makes sense to sell to the closest allies while the goods are liquid.
In Israel, there is speculation that 33 old 20 F-22 units used for training and testing are being modernized to full combat readiness.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: bayard

Many other US allies are also willing to join the program.

Britain, Japan, Israel, South Korea, Australia, that's all the countries that are interested in the F22 in theory and for which the number of aircraft already produced is quite enough.
It is more relevant to talk about an international program to create a "next generation" mass fighter to replace the F15 / 22.

[bayard]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Britain, Japan, Israel, South Korea, Australia, that's all the countries that are interested in F22 in theory

This is already a lot to resume the program. Moreover, talking about an upgraded version. The F-22 as a platform is not bad at all, and if at the same time it gets rid of its generic diseases, it will be much more effective than the F-35. And the appearance of the promising "6th generation aircraft" has not yet been shown to anyone - these are just words, and no one knows what lies behind these words.
Maybe this is just the modernized F-22?
In addition, from the first flight of the prototype to the arrival of the first aircraft in the troops, it will take at least 10, but rather 15 years (tested by practice), and then another time for saturating the troops with new equipment and its development in the troops ... We have twenty years ahead. .. On what to fly, scare the world?
That's it.
And questions about the resumption of production of the F-22 have been worked out for several years. It looks like a site for a new / old production has been found.
And thanks to the involvement of partners, it will be possible to save money / earn money, and modernize the F-22 combatants that are outdated in avionics and motors, and get a transitional model for the next 20 years.
Wash it is quite reasonable.
And even financially justified.
And you must agree that neither the Su-35 nor the Chinese 57th generation aircraft will be able to withstand the pregnant F-5 on equal terms ...
so we found a tool to restore quality superiority.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: bayard

This is already a lot to resume the program.

These are 200 planes in total, minuscule. Japan and South Korea have their own projects of new aircraft, naturally with American participation.

Quote: bayard

"6th generation aircraft" has not been shown to anyone yet - these are just words

They say about the 6th generation only in Runet. In principle, all this generational classification does not stand up to criticism, there are no generally accepted criteria and standards. They just say "the next generation".

Quote: bayard

the resumption of production of the F-22 has been under development for several years

Yes, they are working on, the conclusions I wrote are expensive and pointless.

Quote: bayard

And you must agree that neither the Su-35 nor the Chinese 57th generation aircraft will be able to withstand the pregnant F-50 on equal terms ...

I disagree. It's like a spherical horse in a vacuum, in impossible conditions, when the battle takes place 1 on 1, the Su-57 must win, but in reality the systems are fighting. You understand that very well. And the F35 was not created to gain air superiority, for this there are F15 and F22, so the Su57 must be compared with them.

[bayard]

Wait and see .
But the United States really does not have a new air superiority aircraft for the next 15 to 20 years. The F-35 is not at all suitable for this, the F-22 is no longer young, its avionics are outdated, it needs modernization and replacement of engines.
There are no engines.
Resuming their production for the sake of one and a half hundred older aircraft is expensive and not justified in the American way. But combining these two programs is a completely different matter. The United States will be able to order for itself about 300 - 400 new aircraft + modernize the existing ones, and all the costs of this pleasure will be covered by the supply of those very couple of hundred to allies.
Financially, everything is struggling, and this is not an R&D from scratch, this is the resumption of production in a modernized form.
But our dispute / discussion is pointless until we know for sure about the US plans in this regard.
And in the US ... elections ...
Which could end in the Second Civil War ...
And everyone will not be up to the resumption of Raptor production.
The future is multivariate.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: bayard

The future is multivariate.

I completely agree with this. In general, I assume that UAVs will perform the main tasks by the end of this decade. A huge number of relatively cheap, jet drones. The speed of information transfer and processing will be more important than the parameters of an individual machine.

[bayard]

There is such a tendency, but it all depends on the reliability and noise immunity of communication channels. EW has also been doing wonders lately.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: bayard

EW has also been doing wonders lately.

What? In the video from the UAVs they are burning cool, the exploded UAVs against which were created
In Runet, "REB" has become a magic wunderwaffe. The main parts of electronic warfare are electronic reconnaissance, protection and suppression. Suppression works well against radar, against there is practically no communication channel (narrow sector, short distances), against UAVs they are practically useless. The "cloud" of interference can be flown around, the sensitivity and filtering of the signal of modern communication means allows you to keep in touch in the cloud of interference, the use of a network of repeaters in general nullifies the electronic warfare, it does not work at all on high-frequency directional transmission channels of electronic warfare (reconnaissance and suppression) (they are just F22 / 35 are used, including for communication with the slave UAVs).
Against the radar, the REP works great, but not against the UAV. There are a huge number of successful confirmed examples of radar jamming, but there are no confirmed facts of successful work against UAVs, not at all, not a single one.
The only thing that happened at the beginning of the XNUMXs was the interception of the video, due to the fact that the data that went to the satellite left without encryption, but this is a question of slovenliness, not electronic warfare. It was possible to watch video from the UAV like satellite TV, to take over control, as it was not possible then, and today.

[bayard]

Sorry, but I disagree with you. It is quite possible to suppress communication channels, to disorient through a false GPE signal. But since the questions of electronic warfare are secrets behind seven seals, I will not spread my thoughts along the tree, just as I will not throw my hats. When it comes to application, we'll see. There are means, methods and ways of application for all cases.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: bayard

But since the issues of electronic warfare are secrets sealed with seven seals

Oh, come on. Electronic warfare began to be used in the Russian-Japanese war in 1905, UAVs began to be used by the United States in the Pacific theater of operations in 1944. The laws of radiophysics have not changed since then. But it is easier for me to understand the issue, I am a radio engineer by education and, accordingly, a VUS liaison.

Quote: bayard

When it comes to application, we'll see.

It is precisely for more than 70 years of joint life of electronic warfare and UAVs that there should be a lot of such cases.

Quote: bayard

There are means, methods and ways of application for all cases.

I agree. They are. Only in Russia they are not visible and the next 10-20 years will not be seen. But if we proceed from the fact that for the last 40 years we have been ruled by pests (out of stupidity or specifically a matter of the investigation), then everything falls into place.

[bayard]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

But it is easier for me to understand the issue, I am a radio engineer by education and, accordingly, the VUS is a liaison.

Higher Command Air Defense Electronics. I am familiar with the duty of the previous service.
Communication channels are choking. And not just weak receivers-transmitters on the UAV, but quite a narrowly directional troposphere. And suppression / distortion of GBS navigation is also a yesterday.
Communication and EW as a shield and a sword - in eternal struggle and development. But there are electronic warfare funds for all occasions and wars in the Russian Federation - do not hesitate.
And Armenia is not an indicator at all. There it simply does not exist, and they do not trust it to just anyone.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: bayard

Higher Command Air Defense Electronics. I am familiar with the duty of the previous service.

Quote: bayard

Communication and electronic warfare as a shield and a sword - in eternal struggle and development

I am in charge of communication, so in this fight I am for it

[bayard]

Good luck in the fight for communication, in bad weather, dust and dirt.

[ZEMCH]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Suppression works well against radar, against there is practically no communication channel (narrow sector, short distances), against UAVs they are practically useless. The "cloud" of interference can be flown around, the sensitivity and filtering of the signal of modern communication means allows you to keep in touch in the cloud of interference, the use of a network of repeaters in general nullifies the electronic warfare, it does not work at all on high-frequency directional transmission channels of electronic warfare (reconnaissance and suppression) (they are just F22 / 35 are used, including for communication with the slave UAVs).

Communication channels just turn off quickly, but for this you need to know the location of the UAV launcher. For this, intelligence works. She has enough funds to find the launcher and communication centers. As an example, you don't even need to shoot down satellites to turn off or replace GPS signals)))).

[VO3A]

They say about the 6th generation only in Runet. In principle, all this generational classification does not stand up to criticism, there are no generally accepted criteria and standards. They just say "the next generation".

There is a classification, but it cannot be voiced. because no one will buy these aircraft, because the owner will not be able to independently realize the capabilities of the 5th generation ... The 5th generation aircraft is a universal element of the LSI ... The enemies of this system in a global performance, no one except the United States. ..Separate elements are, for example, Israel, some countries have integration with air defense and other aircraft ... The latter is not enough ... What is the versatility of the 5th generation aircraft? It can perform in the LSI both the function of an unobtrusive information link and the function of a strike means. Neither China, with all due respect, nor Europe can have a 5th generation aircraft of their own .. What can we say about South Korea and Japan? It's just a PR, a marketing move, nothing more ... And the 6th generation from Europeans only causes laughter!

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: VO3A

There is a classification, but it cannot be voiced. because no one will buy these aircraft, because the owner will not be able to independently realize the capabilities of the 5th generation

Aha If we give a normal classification, then each country has its own, and marketing does not sound very good. And so the 5th generation, 4 ++ generation is absolutely meaningless, but it sounds beautiful. By the way, there are no 4,5,6 generations in the official programs in the USA. There is just the name of the program / project, now such a wording is "next generation" "next generation", but where these generations come from is not clear You can count from F15 / 18

Quote: VO3A

it is already possible to formulate the requirements for the 6th generation aircraft

There will not be a single 6th generation aircraft, there will be various next generation aircraft while several concepts are seen:
1. A modular platform that can be transformed into a task. During the tests, the X35B was converted into the X35A in order to prove high unification. Of course, there will not be an opportunity to transform to such an extent, but something close
2. Hypersonic striker / interceptor continued SR-71
3. Fighter escorting bombers.
4. ....
Naturally, all this is a manned and unmanned version.

The main increase in the role of UAVs, not of these propeller-driven toys, but of normal jet ones (Predator C, XQ-58, X-47V). In principle, the fork is serious, you can turn in different directions.

[VO3A]

Again :

.The aircraft of the 5th generation is a universal element of the LSI

What do you not understand? Without the Combat Information System, there is no 5th generation aircraft ... This is the main thing, this is the main condition ... This is sufficiency, but what should be the 5th generation aircraft in order to better perform its functions in this global system, one can argue .. .Now it is clear ? No one has a full-fledged 5th generation aircraft except the United States and it cannot be ... There are truncated LSIs with air defense and aircraft from Russia, China, in some sense from Israel, ... but this is not enough ... So the plane 5th generation also truncated ...

[OgnennyiKotik]

Yes, there are no "generations", this is pure marketing. There is an airplane with its own tasks and flight characteristics. For Americans, everything should be part of network-centric systems. From infantryman to aircraft carrier. Now the speed of information transfer and processing is the most important parameter. Naturally, all the capabilities of the F35 are fully revealed in network-centric systems. He is generally their center. And new parts will be built around it. And the pilot's task is not to fly and perform aerobatic figures, but to control the battle. This is the main scrapping. Therefore, less than a quarter of pilots can retrain from older aircraft types.
Other fighters are built for different tasks, for different systems. Yes, they will be destroyed in a clash with the American ones, but that is what it is.

[VO3A]

Naturally, all the capabilities of the F35 are fully revealed in network-centric systems, and it is generally their center. And new parts will be built around it.

Did you come up with this yourself? He's not the center. Is he launching ground-to-ground missiles? He can transmit coordinates for them, we can assume that the transmitted coordinates can be entered automatically, but he does not let them in! You have "porridge" in your head! You operate with beautiful and new words without understanding their meaning. I can console you that not only you ...

[nks]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

A modular platform that can be transformed into a task. During the tests, the X35B was converted into the X35A,

The opposite is the X-35A to the X-35B. Only these are versions by basing, not by tasks. In general, already current requirements are adaptation to tasks without rework

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

2. Hypersonic striker / interceptor continued SR-71
3. Fighter escorting bombers.

De-unification? Hmm, this is contrary to the requirements. And why Hypersonic?

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: nks

Opposite X-35A to X-35B

Yeah, thanks for the amendment.

Quote: nks

Only these are versions by basing, not by tasks.

As an example of the possibility

Quote: nks

De-unification? Hmm, this is contrary to the requirements. And why Hypersonic?

Listed rumors and speculations. These tasks can be combined in one aircraft.

[Dmitry Zadorozhniy]

That's when the problems with oxygen starvation of the pilots, and of the catapult at the same time, will be solved. Then you can talk. Syrian photos of lizard don't say anything? These are the ones that are made by the drying complex. Invisibility, yeah.

[bayard]

In the course of modernization and renewed production, these problems can be solved. Well, "invisibility" is a very relative and conditional concept. Moreover, the detection of such targets using OLS in a passive mode (as was the case with the "Syrian photo of a lizard") is possible without any restrictions.
The Raptor is indeed a very serious adversary, much more serious than the pregnant F-35, so the possible resumption of them in production is not very good news ... Especially against the background of delays in the launch of the Su-57 and AWACS A-100 aircraft.
And the merits of the enemy F-22 in no way diminish the merits and positive qualities of the representatives of the domestic fighter aviation.
But you need to make your plans based on the confrontation with the BEST enemy fighters, and consider the options for possible confrontations in a complex manner.
That's what military analytics is for.

[bayard]

Quote: c2020

Without product "30" it is a 4th generation fighter

Delirium. AL-41F is quite consistent with the characteristics of a 5th generation aircraft. And in terms of maximum speed and maximum non-afterburner. It’s not the engines that matter, but the complexities of a systemic nature - avionics, software, etc. An aircraft with a very high coefficient of novelty. And his sores will still crawl out.
And the engine of the 2nd stage "Product-30" in its characteristics and, first of all, in terms of specific thrust (!) Significantly surpasses American engines from the F-22 and F-35. That is, this engine will at least correspond to category 5+. And it implements, among other things, variable contouring (3 circuits with the ability to switch to 2 and 3 circuit modes), they are also working on this in the USA - a new modification for the F-35.

[Charik]

Papuan popped you on a stump

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

The 5th generation of fighters is:
- low visibility;
- cruising supersonic speed;
- multifunctionality (the ability to attack air, land and sea targets);
- radar with AFAR;
- super maneuverability;
- well, modern communications and all kinds of computer assistants.

The Su-57 fully meets these requirements.

And the 6th generation of fighters is all the same, only in the UAV version, and here the Su-57 can also come up, since, according to the assurances of the developers, the possibility of using it in the UAV version is also there.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

The 5th generation of fighters is:

I wonder who decided this? Where is the international document regulating the generation of fighters? Where is this commission that decides on the assignment of the generation number?

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

I wonder who decided this? laughing Where is the international document regulating the generation of fighters? laughing Where is this commission that decides on the assignment of the generation number? laughing

These are generally accepted requirements for a new generation of fighters, but of course there is no rigid framework, so the F-35, although it cannot fly at cruising supersonic speed and its maneuverability is not the best among fighters, is still classified as the 5th generation.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

generally accepted requirements for new generation fighters

Who accepted it? Lockheed Martin marketers? China has 4 generations in total

All these generational classifications do not stand up to criticism, there are no accepted standards. And it arose with the advent of the F22 from Lockhead marketers. Therefore, it obeys marketing laws, not technical ones.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

The standards for the 5th and 6th generation fighter have been around for a long time, but you can continue to deny the obvious things.

[BLADFROST]

The fifth bullshit at number 35. Neither give nor take

[BLADFROST]

For sga our product is 30 and is their 6th generation

[Voyager]

A fighter's generation determines its capabilities. The current engine already meets all the requirements.

[rocket757]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Time and money are available, we will do as much as necessary

Are you serious?
And who will do, and where they will do, and what will I do ???
Will everything you need fall from the sky or what?
The most complex production, technological cycle, with many third-party productions, components, where we still have a lot of "HOLE" !!! You sho, hope "holes" with money, hurray to plug / seal up with chants.
Everything can be corrected, but for this there is so much, I don’t want to list .... so much more time will be needed !!!

[codetalker]

And who will do, and where they will do, and what will I do ???

These are all non-essential questions for Russia. Who to do is - if not enough, there are those who can teach. Where to do - we have, a little - we will build. The essential question is: what balance of interests of power groups within the framework of state administration in Russia will be achieved. Which direction will win? To develop your country, your production, your technological environment, etc. Or they handed over resources to the west and went for a walk ...
And all other problems can be solved (rather quickly), the 20th century has shown this.

[rocket757]

Quote: codetalker

These are all non-essential questions for Russia.

Again, are you SERIOUS?
To one who wrote

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

We have time and money to do as much as necessary.

the question asked, how does he imagine it?
Okay, the time he claims is there ??? Even about money, I will not say anything, although I will look back at our top accountants, what will they say about it ???
We have noticeably at least WHAT movement, preparation for the moment when it WILL BE NECESSARY, to give products ... why is it not noticeable or so well masked, question ???
In general, hurray, we saw hats, but there are NO planes, at least in some noticeable quantity!

[codetalker]

Did you read carefully what was above?)
Once again, the 20th century has shown that for Russia there is no problem, if necessary and in a short time, to raise qualified production personnel, build factories, etc. The problem is observed in the area of ​​management. Since state governance is of a corporate nature, the vector of this governance will be determined by the balance of interests of the groups involved in it. Therefore, there is nothing to worry about if there are currently no sufficient production facilities or qualified personnel in production. This can be resolved later. Now the fundamental question is: what will be the vector of governing the country? There is an acute problem with qualified managerial personnel.

[rocket757]

Quote: codetalker

Now the fundamental question is: what will be the vector of governing the country? There is an acute problem with qualified managerial personnel.

The obvious, the probable is not worth talking about.
I won't argue with that, because it is so.
Moreover, it all starts with this .... there will be no sensible management, the rest of everything will be heading somersault no one knows where.
P.S. I'll add everything. If, SUDDENLY, sensible management appears, everything else can not be easily resolved! It will take a lot of time and effort to get everything up to acceptable condition.
There are capital losses in too many positions, things have gone very wrong! Education, scientific potential, what they did to it, it's not so easy to fix it.

[BLADFROST]

Successfully enough these holes are being closed and do not murmur if you do not know! If we compare with the Soviet past, then the applied indicators are in a clear advantage. We have never had such a technological leap in such a short period of time!

[rocket757]

Quote: BLADFROST

We have never had such a technological leap in such a short period of time!

Look at the history of OUR country, for a start ...

[Avior]

We must wait for the successful completion of the tests.
Judging by the fact that after the disaster of the first, they found out almost a year, the reason was not an accidental marriage or a mistake.

[VO3A]

A very deep conclusion! Share the facts ... or at least voice your speculations ...

[Avior]

Everyone knows my fact - after the disaster of the first serial, almost a year passed before the production of the second serial.
Voice your conjectures why such a gap, if it is not related to constructive improvements ...

[VO3A]

Conjectures from those who do not understand technology! There was a failure in the aircraft control system, more precisely in the SDU ... But since the aircraft is super-maneuverable and uses the deflected engine thrust vector, this system is much more complicated ... I had to re-test the entire control system in full ... and check the declared reliability parameters and for this, a system was used made for the second production aircraft. We do not know how the tests ended, especially since the pause was used by manufacturers of other systems ... Perhaps tests were carried out in parallel at the manufacturer's plant, for this, systems were used for the following serial aircraft, while the production of subsequent systems was suspended until the reasons were clarified or the reliability characteristics were confirmed .. ...
This raises the question, does the Su-57 really need this super-maneuverability?

[Avior]

Clear. Your reasoning fully confirmed my post.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: VO3A

Does the Su-57 really need this super maneuverability?

Yes, it is not needed. The advantages of it are questionable, the disadvantages are obvious. And as long as there is a person inside the plane, it is strange to talk about super-maneuverability, in any case the maximum limit is -3 +12 g.

[hydro]

Engines make a pancake

[hydro]

The experimental engine for the su-57 is weak! very

[askort154]

...... crashed on 24 December 2019 during a test flight. After this incident, all flights of the Su-57 were suspended.

This suggests that the cause of the accident was established, and changes, improvements, etc. There was something "serious", it took almost a year to be allowed to fly - "the second serial". The main thing is that they did not "hack to death" - the serial process will continue.

[c2020]

And who will do, and where will they do, and what will they do ???
Will everything you need fall from the sky or what?
The most complex production, technological cycle, with many third-party productions, components, where we still have a lot of "HOLE" !!!

You are smart. The Pepsi and USE generations will never understand this. They are full of brainless optimism and all they can do is destroy science and production under the guidance of equally brainless “effective” managers. They have learned to poke the buttons of computers with their fingers and think that such "digitalization" is the cutting edge of science and production. Papuans. Definitely Papuans.

[Avior]

In general, the constructive improvements that were required when trying to test a production aircraft indicate that it was not ready for production.
Modifications can be based on the results of the operation of serial equipment, and not on the basis of test results.

[askort154]

Avior...In general, the constructive improvements that were required when trying to test a production aircraft indicate that it was not ready for production.

And this is very important! The aircraft did not hit the series with an undetected "sore".
It manifested itself immediately on the first "product". Imagine what would have happened if 50 pieces had been stamped, and then this "sore" appeared. The whole series is "funny", if not worse - increased accident rate.
Modifications can be based on the results of the operation of serial equipment, and not on the basis of test results.
Improvements are always there and will be, from the moment the aircraft was created until its decommissioning.
With a super-wunderfly of the 20th century, they have been improving since the beginning of its operation.
It has been riveted by hundreds, and it "falls" almost every year. And this says one thing -
the raw product was put into production. The reasons for the "crashes" are not declassified, the exploitation is not stopped, as it should be in aviation. Why - there is only one answer
prestige and loot are interconnected.

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: askort154

The aircraft did not hit the series with an undetected "sore". It manifested itself immediately on the first "product".

Actually, I got it. The sore appeared on the first serial product.

[Avior]

The first serial fell, so the operation is not stopped, because so far nothing is being exploited.
The fact that this happened to the very first serial production suggests that the plane was too early to be transferred to serial production.
During the operation of serial copies, they find those flaws that are revealed in large batches with a large bloom, and not first made during tests. Such things should be identified before being launched into the series.

[Bez 310]

Everything that is happening with this plane causes sadness ...
Now they imitate the adoption of unfinished
aircraft, and only in order for the opportunity to
at least someone interested in this product.

[BLADFROST]

This is a routine job. This happens everywhere in mechanical engineering. It remains to be seen how many Fu35s were destroyed before the series. We will not be told or shown this.

[fa2998]

Quote: Dead Day

Quote: fa2998

Americans, their "bad" F-35 by that time will probably release 1000 units.

the fu-35 will become obsolete, the other is already being developed by the Yankes.

The F-22 flies and does not become obsolete when production is over long ago. And the problems of the F-35 will be sorted out during the production process. In 57 years, the "probable enemy" will definitely roll out the new plane, and again we will lag behind by a generation.

[yfast]

So far, the estimated release time for the entire batch is 2095.

[Azimuth]

Observing how long we harness, one can only hope that we will go as in the proverb - quickly.

[Kushka]

Recently I heard how one foreign figure altered
this proverb - the Russians harness for a long time and ..... do not go anywhere.
Is he kidding?

[Kushka]

I call it Lefty Syndrome. This is when Lefty shod one (or two?) Fleas,
and the tsar and the general ran around with it all over Europe. It was 200 years ago, unfortunately,
Lefty syndrome haunted us all Soviet times and is haunted now - one tank,
one plane, one Kuznetsov ..... Have we really grown up unworthy of our fathers and grandfathers?
Just think about these numbers !!! How many factories, assembly lines are behind them?
What should be the machine park, logistics, to achieve such indicators?
In 1944, the aviation industry produced a record number of aircraft for the entire war - 40 aircraft (of which 241 are combat) and 33 engines [205, v. 52, p. 776].
During all the war years, it was possible to master and launch into serial production 25 new types of aircraft, including modifications: 10 fighters, 8 bombers, 2 attack aircraft, 4 transport aircraft and 1 training aircraft. [i] [/ i]

[Dmitry Zadorozhniy]

Not visibility, not visibility. We take the section of the fuselage "fighters" and Pak fa. We look, we are surprised. "Fighters" are built according to the normal aerodynamic design. Pak fa, a worthy successor to the "crane" with a carrying glider.

[Object.F7]

The Su-27 was born in agony, and in the end it turned out to be a wonderful machine that is still relevant today. Today the Su-57 is more a matter of image and export. The time of the present 57th, one hundred percent realized has not yet come, there is no point in building large parties today, because many technologies have not yet been brought to the level, and we are talking about the sixth generation. The question is not only in the second stage engine, but also in radio photonic radars, which will completely change the appearance of modern fighters and at once transfer the f-22 and f-35 to the rank of an obsolete generation. As far as I understood the idea from open sources: a pair or four 57x will control a flock of attached drones, such as a hunter, but different in functions: in addition to range and photographic clarity, radio photonic radars will also perform the functions of a radio, literally burn out all the electronics in the radius, there is the planned power will be orders of magnitude higher than modern radars, physically destroying their electronics; another part of the hunters will be purely percussion, and another part will consist of UAV fighters with super-maneuverability, super-speed and the ability to jump into near space. The S-70 hunter for the role of the latter obviously does not pull the initially inappropriate shape of the flying wing, there will be a different glider. There is infa about the start of work on the MiG-41 interceptor, which will be jointly developed by dry and flashing. If it is a drone, then here is the answer, who is being trained to play the role of winged superfighters for air combat and jumps for the stratosphere. Then the concept of using the Su-57 will be fully developed and it will not be the fifth, but the sixth generation. By the way, the Americans are going in a similar way and talk about the development of the 6th generation is work on a slave drone, but in parallel they also need to create a manned base, tk. The f-35 turned out to be clearly unsuccessful, unreliable and generally slow, there is no afterburner supersonic, which means there is no future, because you have to keep up with your drones in order to fully realize their potential. There has never been a problem to print new paper billions for development. And the sale of hundreds of 35x to colonies will offset some of the costs for a new fighter of the future.

[depressant]

Oh, how I missed such news! My favorite plane!))))
Live, swallow, successfully take off and land, high-quality fuel for you, clear azure sky, caring, kind mechanics and wonderful pilots!
Thanks to the team of workers, engineers, designers and administrators!

[Fmax]

In the meantime, the partners are launching the production of 130 5th generation aircraft per year.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: FMax

the partners start production of 130 5th generation aircraft per year.

Partners rivet them for the whole world. We are only for ourselves.
Do you want to have an army like the rest of the world put together?
Even the "partners" cannot do this. And why.

[Fmax]

at least half of these 130 pieces per year will remain in the United States. In what years were fighters built at such a pace? So that at least 60 pieces a year ...

[Joker62]

I read and fucking with your posts ...
Can you imagine how many cycles it takes to build one machine?
After all, it goes from the laying of individual parts to the complete assembly of only the fuselage without component units and GIZs - from 3-5 months.
A shorter period of months is a complete optimization to reduce costs per production machine.
Further, after that, the empty fuselage goes to the final assembly, there, too, the assembly time is not small. After assembly, the entire system is checked for a malfunction and the absence of manufacturing defects.
And finally, the assembled car is sent to the LIS (flight test station), where the car is tested from the engine to electronics, control with weapons. This cycle is even longer.
And it turns out that the full cycle of one machine is at least 15 months, maximum 18 months.
The more complex the videoconferencing machines, the longer and more thoroughly the assembly and transmission for the videoconferencing takes.
And no need to compare to the American system. On Boeing or Lockheed corporation - almost the whole world hunches over. And we will do everything with our own hands inside our country.
And now the question: how many marriages and imperfections does the vaunted F-35 have? Shut up?
In fact, the F-35 is a very crude machine, which is not completely clever compared to our Su-57.
And in terms of cost, it's also not frail ... Our Su-57 is an expensive toy for the RF Ministry of Defense, but cheaper than the F-35.
And stamping in batches is the way to ruin the state.

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: Joker62

In fact, the F-35 is a very crude machine, which is not completely clever compared to our Su-57.

And how many "marriages and imperfections" does the Su-57 have?

[TatarinSSSR]

The second stage from 2025 .... Shoot definitely!

[AML]

Quote: Dead Day

equipped with a second stage engine, the Su-57 is planned to be received from 2025.

wow ... this is how many years development has been going on? three years in the air tests are already underway, and only after 5! years to put .... tin. what's going on there?

Why are you all clinging to the second stage engine? And the current engine is quite consistent.

[AML]

Quote: Winnie76

Shooting down UAVs with vigorous ammunition is powerful. And the main thing is economically justified. Think broadly Arthur, I envy

Maybe it's not Arthur who thinks broadly, but you narrowly? EMP is one of the factors. There are those who fly and others will not be able to fly for a long time. So it's not such a crazy idea.