A new diesel-electric icebreaker of project 21900M2 for the Far East was laid in Hamburg

Linear diesel-electric icebreaker of project 21900M2 for FSUE "Rosmorport" was laid in Germany. According to the information and analytical agency PortNews, the laying ceremony of the icebreaker took place on October 29, 2020 at the German shipyard Pella Sietas in Hamburg.

Linear diesel-electric icebreaker of project 21900M2 with a capacity of 18 MW ice class Icebreaker7 will be built in Hamburg, at the Pella Sietas shipyard, controlled by the Russian Pella OJSC. The shipyard in Neuenfeld (Hamburg region), which existed since 1635, went bankrupt in 2014 and was acquired by the Russian Pella.

This shipyard has a dry dock that allows building vessels up to 180 meters long and up to 40 meters wide. Icebreaker project 21900M2 became the largest order in stories this German shipyard both in cost and in size.

The icebreaker will be built under a contract signed by Pella in September 2019 following an open tender. The Vyborg Shipyard, which had previously built three Project 21900M icebreakers for the North, did not participate in the competition. Most likely, Pella will also receive another contract for the second icebreaker of this project.

The new icebreaker is designed for year-round operation in the freezing seaports of the Far East. The commissioning of the vessel is scheduled for 2024.

According to the bmpd blog, the 21900M2 project has been developed on the basis of the 21900M project and the draft icebreaker design developed by Vympel Design Bureau, taking into account modern international convention requirements, including the reduction of harmful emissions from marine engines. The ice class of the new vessel has been increased to Icebreaker7.

Maximum length - 119,8 meters, maximum width - 27,5 meters, draft - 8,5 meters, speed - 17 knots, displacement - 14 tons, propeller power - 300 MW.

Comments

[svp67]

Honestly, it is not entirely clear now, why did we suddenly decide to support the workers of Germany? And ours that do not want to eat?

[carstorm 11]

whose shipyard try to read) it was not bought for idle time)

[Shadow041]

And what do Russians work at the shipyard, or do they pay Russian salaries there ?! Where is the economic justification for this insanity ?! Or, again, the Germans came running to lick the ass of the Chubais, disregarding the interests of the Russian Federation and its indigenous population, to which they always had to poop ?!

[carstorm 11]

But what difference does it make to you?) They seem to be building an icebreaker for us and not for someone. when the USSR built ships all over Europe did it annoy you too?)

[Shadow041]

Yes, there is a big difference, jobs are created in Germany, especially with German salaries, or in the Russian Federation !!! As for the USSR, they built it on a barter basis, something they to us, something we give them. The same Finland, which built icebreakers for the USSR, bought military equipment from the USSR (tanks, airplanes, etc.) ... Now this does not exist and it is a CRIME to feed the Germans at the expense of the Russian Federation !!!!

[carstorm 11]

logic zashibis) and the workers there also received a salary on barter and probably in rubles?))) do you understand what you are writing?)))

[Shadow041]

So the USSR sold its equipment not for rubles, but for currency. And what will Russia get from Germany now ?! Nothing?! Well, on ... RF needs it ?! Do you think I should be happy ?! I see no reason to be happy !!!

[carstorm 11]

ICEBREAKER will receive !!!! will not buy but build for himself.

[Shadow041]

It will build, this is when they built in the Russian Federation, creating jobs in the Russian Federation, and not when the Germans were fed with pickles, to the detriment of their own population !!!

[carstorm 11]

again. why the USSR could build like that, but now we can't?) The USSR could then feed everyone in a row, but why are you denying this to us?)

[Shadow041]

You feed your own people before you feed them abroad, and if abroad is more dear to you, then we will not detain you in the Russian Federation. Suitcase, Station, Hamburg !!!

[Buffet]

And you are already swollen from hunger, seven in the shops shouting "dad we want to eat"?

[Whirlwind]

Calm down, nerd ...
Our shipyards have been busy for years. There is simply not enough shipbuilding capacity. For this, they bought a high-tech, German shipyard. The Northern Sea Route requires a well-developed infrastructure and a modern icebreaker fleet for a speedy, end-to-end launch. We create it at an accelerated pace. "Time is money".

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Well, it’s not worth it to build ships in large quantities abroad, of course, but there are only a few, but with full utilization of their capacities, there is a reason. And German diesels are good ...
True, hooray patriots do not understand and will never understand!

[Whirlwind]

This is how it turns out that the battle cry of the Russian warriors is "Uraaa!" and the word Patriot, which means a person who loves the Motherland, when merged into one, are devalued to the level of a hi-idiot? Don't you think, dear Vladimir, that the enemies of Russia have deceived us like fools, but we are being led, and even laughing, at ourselves ...

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Quote: Whirlwind

This is how it turns out that the battle cry of the Russian warriors is "Uraaa!" and the word Patriot, which means a person who loves the Motherland, when merged into one, are devalued to the level of a hi-idiot? Don't you think, dear Vladimir, that the enemies of Russia have deceived us like fools, but we are being led, and even laughing, at ourselves ...

I don’t find it. Patriotism is a wonderful quality of a real citizen. But hurray-patriotism (leavened, sharovarny, etc.), national-patriotism - NO! Read the encyclopedia. Or at least my article published here on VO. Although it is damp (I have a fully revised version, which I will publish somewhere soon), it fully covers these issues.

[Whirlwind]

There is also leavened patriotism ... Why not hurray-idiocy ??? Or hi-patriotism ???
Why did they inculcate negativity into hurray-patriotism, what would they be afraid of the very words Ur and Patriot ??? The substitution of concepts is the methods of the IP of war, and we are its victims.

[Vladimir Mashkov]

You are the victim (you say it yourself). I am not (because I am well versed in the topic).

[Bear040]

Judging by how the German diesels have shown themselves on the Buyan-M type RTOs, they are not that good and the price is clearly ahead of the quality.

[Serg koma]

Quote: carstorm 11

Why could the USSR build like this and now we cannot?

Because the USSR did not have enough production space - everyone was busy with orders, incl. and for the Navy (in the first place). is the first thing. The second is technology. In this case, for comparison with the USSR, not a single criterion is suitable, so do not refer to Soviet "foreign" orders. For the educational program, they build ships of the same type, which means they can also be in Russia, and the money (for this project) is leaking into the German economy. - this is called "investment", ie - the placement of capital for the purpose of making a profit. Taxes are paid in Germany, not in Russia.

[carstorm 11]

generally all fit. our shipyards are loaded. for years to come. For example, Pella writes about it in an open test in her reports. they simply do not have a place until 23.

[Serg koma]

Quote: carstorm 11

they simply do not have a place until 23.

Including in Germany (the shipyard is part of the Pella OJSC holding). The question is about something else - to build new shipyards, to restore old ones - to invest money in the development of shipbuilding in RUSSIA, not Germany, organize jobs in Russia, not Germany, pay taxes in Russia, not Germany.

[carstorm 11]

Well, I don’t argue with that. only this is the same time. so what's wrong with getting ships now?

[Lexus]

“Believers” who condone fornication are at least ridiculous.

 Show / Hide text

https://poembook.ru/poem/1552741

[Garris199]

Everything is correct, but on the other hand, economic ties with Germany are also important for us. Many joint Russian-German enterprises have been created. The Russian Federation also receives investments and, even more importantly, receives technologies.

[Note]

How much more expensive will it be to build in Germany? It's our money

[Serg koma]

Quote: carstorm 11

ICEBREAKER will receive !!!! will not buy but build for himself.

Whom do you mean? A shipowner who "will receive an icebreaker" (and not buy), and how does a shipbuilder "build for himself"? So they already have a whole fleet (according to your logic)Structure of OJSC "PELLA"

The structure of Pella OJSC is built on the principle of a holding on the basis of a parent company, which unites around itself a number of subsidiaries and affiliates, which, being independent legal entities, are links in a single technological chain of the production process.

Reference list
№ Year Project Name Customer, Port
1 2016 Tug pr. 04690 BK-2182 of the Russian Navy, Baltic Fleet BK-2182
2 2016 Patrol boat "Raptor" pr. 03160 factory No. 709 Russian Navy, Black Sea Fleet Patrol boat "Raptor", pr. 03160
3 2016 Patrol boat "Raptor" pr. 03160 factory No. 710 of the Russian Navy, Baltic Fleet Patrol boat "Raptor", pr. 03160
4 2016 Patrol boat "Raptor" pr. 03160 factory No. 711 Russian Navy, Black Sea Fleet Patrol boat "Raptor", pr. 03160
5 2016 Tug pr. 90600 RB-397 of the Russian Navy, Caspian flotilla RB-397
6 2016 Tug pr. 90600 MIKHAIL SALNIKOV Admiralty Shipyards JSC MIKHAIL SALNIKOV
7 2016 Tug pr. 16609 RB-2180 of the Russian Navy, Northern Fleet RB-2180
8 2016 Tug pr. PS-45 POLAR CONVOY Russian Navy, Northern Fleet Tug pr. PS-45
9 2016 Tug pr. PS-45 SB-737 of the Russian Navy, Baltic Fleet SB-737
10 2016 Fishing vessel project PL-475 VESTLINER Keltic AS, Norway Fishing vessel project PL-475

[carstorm 11]

and what is it? you at least study what they are building and have already built. if you are copying the text from the site, then at least for a year take a look to begin with or something. or did they delete the year on purpose?))) well, and run through their sites) it seems like not one.) MRK, for example, who builds?)))

[Serg koma]

Quote: carstorm 11

you at least study what they are building and have already built.

Quote: carstorm 11

ICEBREAKER will receive !!!! won't buy but build for itself.

Quote: Serg Koma

Who do you mean? The shipowner who will "get the icebreaker" (not buy it), and how shipbuilder - "builds for himself"?

You can continue to run around the sites - not understanding the difference between a shipbuilder and a shipowner (the customer of the ship).

[MY THOUGHT]

mistrals remember how much they cost? in a couple of three years, look at what time the bays in the Crimea will come out, this is about the difference in wages per unit of production. and the icebreaker is being built in Germany because there is no other way to bypass the sanctions on the units incorporated in its design

[garik77]

Yes, and Vyborg Shipbuilding did not participate in the competition, according to rumors, it is already overwhelmed with orders at the very least

[Bat039]

So together with the Mistrals you got ears from a dead donkey, and in Crimea there is every chance to actually build something for the fleet.

[MY THOUGHT]

And there is a chance and not to build a plant, or a structural problem wakes up, as is often the case with complex new equipment, and for the mistral we received money in full, there is no need to pour in vain.

[Phoenix040]

UDC Mistral was built according to the canons of civil shipbuilding, there is nothing complicated there. Did you get the money ?! So the ships were needed, or money ?!

[MY THOUGHT]

Morgunov was built, there is no money, no ship. At the expense of the complexity, it's not for you to judge. The future is known only to Rhys Kyle from the terminator, when they built the mistral, someone did not know it. Import substitution is good. But icebreakers designed for imported engines need to be completed without changes in the project, especially since there is a possibility and a need for them ...

[Boris Chernikov]

and in the end the USSR should have turned out to be all ... aha, good barter

[Interlocutor]

Now this is not the case, and to feed the Germans at the expense of the Russian Federation is a CRIME !!!!

[Dmitry Makarov]

Where are you going to build an icebreaker in Russia now?
All shipyards are packed with orders for 5 years ahead.

[Nasrat]

The communies got agitated .... The USSR built ships and vessels in Poland, East Germany, Finland - then it was possible .... hehe Now it is impossible ...

[Shadow041]

The USSR sold weapons to these countries for foreign currency (to Finland, for example), and what do you sell to Germany to build ships at its shipyards, but the non-komunyaki ?!

[Nasrat]

Quote: Shadow041

The USSR sold weapons to these countries for currency!

And it’s true, furniture was brought from Poland for "currency", boots and jackets from the GDR ... and in the USSR this currency was "thrown" into the sale of a dog fight (since our commies could not make such a thing) ... although what a sale , most of them diverged according to their "friends", yes "ours" ......

[Shadow041]

Come on. You talk like dogs in a fight ... So you could afford it, but now, with the leadership of people like you in the Russian Federation, most of you cannot afford German furniture ... Yes, you bought new Ekarus in the USSR, and you are importing buses from foreign auto cemeteries to Russia.

[Nasrat]

Quote: Shadow041

Come on. You talk like dogs in a fight ... So you could afford it, but now, with the leadership of people like you in the Russian Federation, most of you cannot afford German furniture ... Yes, you bought new Ekarus in the USSR, and you are importing buses from foreign auto cemeteries to Russia.

Could allow - just not all hehe ...
by bus:
The funny thing is that the Ekaruses bought MAN engines, and the body was copied from the Germans ... How so? provided work for the workers of Germany ??? Another question - We even bought buses from the Magyars !, which, judging by your comment, also appreciated more than ours !!! The funny thing is that the Bulgarians even did better conservation !!!! And who ?? - Bulgarians !!! They themselves did not have warm edges to see ...

[Dmitry Makarov]

Why does Russia need "Ikarus"?
Russia now produces a whole bunch of buses and electric buses, of all types and ranks.
Now they buy buses from Russia, you are simply behind the times and do not have information.

[Shadow041]

Well yes. Why then bring foreign buses to Russia from foreign garbage dumps ?! The truth is that in the Russian Federation you have lost almost all production and continue to do this.

[Motorist]

Quote: Shadow041

Yes, and Ekarus in the USSR bought new ones, and you import buses from foreign auto cemeteries to the Russian Federation.

And it seems to me that 18 MW is not enough for an icebreaker of this size. You will, of course, ask how to tie power to your comment. And I will answer: what have the buses to do with it?

[Whirlwind]

So this is a port icebreaker. He can't drive caravans ...

[Arthur 85]

Well, for example, Russia sells gas to Germany ... It's just strange: the news is good, but such rejection.

[KCA]

USSR to neutral Finland weapons for currency? Yes, there, I suppose, not even a piece of small arms was sold, but I remember the Viola cheese from childhood, and the Finnish cervelat, of course

[Alexey RA]

Quote: KCA

USSR to neutral Finland weapons for currency?

MiG-21bis fighters from the Aviation Regiment HavLLv 31 of the Karelian Air Wing of the Finnish Air Force; ~ 1998th year.

[Lexus]

Has the present-day Russia supplied Finland with many weapons? Except "Buk" for debts.

[Graz]

Shadow041

the USSR supplied resources to Hungary at domestic prices, in return they drove ikarus to us at European prices, so it was called fraternal aid, then we paid for these ikarus after the collapse of the union

[Boris Chernikov]

so for currency or barter?)

[Bersaglieri]

Duc, even part of the nuclear (corps) - were built in Finland. The same "Vaygach", for example

[carstorm 11]

Taimyr is also exactly the same.

[Brturin]

Quote: Bersaglieri

even part of the nuclear (corps) - were built in Finland.

And what prevents us from doing the opposite now - to make the body in Russia, and send it to Germany for retrofitting, at least not all of it ...

[garik77]

The ship is very large, where the hulls for the mistrals were cooked, everything is packed with military orders, and there are all conditions for construction

[svp67]

Quote: Bersaglieri

Duc, even part of the nuclear (corps) - were built in Finland. The same "Vaygach", for example

The Finns have historical experience, metallurgy is sharpened for northern shipbuilding, and what kind of icebreakers did we build in Germany?

[svp67]

Quote: Nasr

The USSR built ships and vessels in Poland, the GDR, Finland - then it was possible .... hehe Now it is impossible ...

Yes, they did, but Hamburg has never been to the GDR. We already have a sad experience of building a UDC in France, although the Russian Empire built its warships in England, France, and America ... You are sure that Navalny's beloved cat will not die tomorrow and we will not see this icebreaker either because of the imposed sanctions because of this?

[Shadow041]

Remind you how they answer the question `` Where '' in Russia, or do you yourself remember ?! Let the Eastern dockyard finish building and build there ... and they have no time, so they had to think before, and they did not think in time, that means bad leaders !!!

[carstorm 11]

it is already inundated with orders for the most tomatoes. but it has not been completed yet

[Shadow041]

Unfinished means poorly built, invested little in construction and stole a lot. If they paid its builders, as you are going to pay the Germans, it would have been completed long ago.

[carstorm 11]

do you read across? they are building it. and build quickly. but even at the construction stage, it has already been filled up with orders for years to come.

[Elephant]

Quote: Dmitry Makarov

Where are you going to build an icebreaker in Russia now?
All shipyards are packed with orders for 5 years ahead.

For myself, as well as to support the trousers of Russian workers, it was possible to lay such a ship in the Kerch Bay. There the length of the dock chamber is 354,2 m, the width of the dock chamber is 60,0 m, and the depth of the water in the chamber is 11,0 m Now on satellite images in the dock in the Gulf there are three rusty boats.

[Норд]

In Kerch, there is no experience in the construction of icebreaker-class ships, there is no personnel and equipment. You won't go far on some Wishlist ...

[Bear040]

And where did you see the experience of building icebreakers from the Germans ?! Name one decent icebreaker built in Germany in the last 20 years.

[Норд]

Actually, the shipyard belongs to Pella, who has both experience and competence above the roof. It's not even worth talking about German equipment and qualifications of workers.

[Phoenix040]

So the workers in the Russian Federation have experience, not Pella. From the fact that in Germany they will hang the Pell signboard, German hard workers will not have experience, and their labor will be many times more expensive than in the Russian Federation

[vVvAD]

Quote: Shadow041

Where is the economic justification for this insanity ?!

A small addition: an economic feasibility study for the speedy build-up of icebreaker, tanker, fishing and merchant fleets. The earlier we build, the earlier there will be an effect.

[Garris199]

So I'm wondering what our need for icebreakers is? Every now and then I hear an icebreaker there, an icebreaker here, atomic, diesel for every taste. Why are there so many of them?

[Whirlwind]

Then, to launch year-round movement of ships along the Northern Sea Route.

[Pechkin]

For example, I need them. In order for me to order the manufacture of a kitchen via the Internet. They will make it the way I need it, put the disassembled one in boxes and send it to Dudinka through Murmansk. They will bring it from the pipe to Norilsk and I will assemble it here. Here you see how on a simple In a household example, I described their usefulness (for the delivery I pay that I’m nornickel, so this is not charity). So let them build)

[Sergey39]

And our shipyards are idle, or what? Are the workers sitting out of work?

[Svarog]

Quote: Sergey39

And our shipyards are idle, or what? Are the workers sitting out of work?

Our guest workers are hired ..

[Elephant]

Quote: Sergey39

And our shipyards are idle, or what? Are the workers sitting out of work?

Our docks just sometimes sink (like a PD-50 330 m long, 80 wide near Murmansk) and these workers just sit without work and scratch their turnips ...

[lucul]

And that the Russians work at the shipyard, or do they pay the Russian salary there ?! Where is the economic justification for this insanity ?!

I will support, shipbuilding pulls a whole bunch of industries that work for it. Better, of course, to build everything with us.
But, here most likely geopolitics, so that the icebreaker there does not fall under any future sanctions, or something like that.
And yet - they say at our shipyards everything is packed under orders for 20 years in advance.
So there can be many options.

[Brturin]

Quote: lucul

And yet - they say at our shipyards everything is packed under orders for 20 years in advance.
So there can be many options.

Everyone has different ways, the same Vyborg

The Vyborg Shipyard, which had previously built three Project 21900M icebreakers for the North, did not participate in the competition.

“Analysts note the critical level of the plant’s debt, but emphasize that the plant’s capacities are loaded until 2022 due to the portfolio of civil orders ... LLC "Nord Pilgrim". There are orders for one freezer trawler from JSC "Atlantrybflot" (from 2017) and one from LLC "Company LKT" (from 2018). From 2020, the construction of six crab fishing vessels is to begin by order of NP "Severo -Western Fishery Consortium, if the customer does not change the decision due to the transition to the auction principle of issuing quotas "https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2021
The debts were partially repaid - "Now the VSY has contacts for the construction of eight fishing vessels for the Arkhangelsk Trawl Fleet, the Fore company, for a total of about 30 billion rubles."
https://www.rbc.ru/spb_sz/22/06/2020/5ef059689a79477cd7545f15

2022 is not so far away, so

Most likely, Pella will also receive another contract for the second icebreaker of this project.

, or maybe Vyborg ... all the more so as the same Kommersant writes - "The USC stressed that the plant can come out in arrivedь due to the construction of high-tech ships, icebreakers, ice-strengthened vessels and research vessels. "

[Shadow041]

Oh, don't be funny. With the Mistrals there was also geopolitics, such politicians should be driven to work in janitors, with toilet rags. We have a lot of people who want to be clever, but these clever people do not want to be responsible for their decisions ... They crumpled with the Mistrals, they did not draw conclusions, it means that they do not shine with intelligence at all, and sanctions will be imposed on any ship, under any flag and no matter where it is built, if it is to be used against the masters of the white house

[Kazbek]

Quote: Shadow041

And what do Russians work at the shipyard, or do they pay Russian salaries there ?!

Comrade, you are either sick or you are a provocateur! Carry such madness can only go from full!

[Bear040]

And you and others like you, especially after the story with the Mistrals, consider yourself very smart ?! So no, you are not a smart and not educated type !!! I would describe the activities of your company as deliberate sabotage paid for by foreign cookies.

[x.andvlad]

Quote: Shadow041

Where is the economic justification for this insanity ?!

Maybe there is a better technological equipment than ours? But the fact that the workers there need to pay more than in Russia, do not go to the fortuneteller. And yet another "pleasant bonus" may be the forced closure of production under the pressure of sanctions and the seizure of property in favor of some "Yukos shareholders."
In general, the logic of such an economic move is difficult for an ordinary person to understand. Apparently, effective managers benefit from this.

[Bersaglieri]

people do not understand the "geographical division of labor", yeah

[smart ass]

And pay taxes and salaries to workers in Germany?

[polar fox]

Quote: carstorm 11

whose shipyard try to read

and the Ketays, opening their enterprises, bring in OWN workers ...

[svp67]

Quote: carstorm 11

whose shipyard try to read)

And whose workers? And whose money?

Quote: carstorm 11

they didn't buy it for idle time)

This is a private business of an entrepreneur, but why, at a time of crisis, Russia should support German citizens, this is already a matter for the government

[carstorm 11]

money for what? for the construction of an icebreaker? Well, as if there is not much difference where and how Pella will build it) they are paid they build) their workers. but if you read above from them before the age of 22, everything is forced. propose to postpone the construction of the icebreaker for a couple of three years?)))

[svp67]

Quote: carstorm 11

well, as if there is not much difference where and how Pella will build it)

Yes, of course ... Money to pay for materials, salaries, taxes ...

Quote: carstorm 11

propose to postpone the construction of an icebreaker for a couple of three years?)))

Judging by the fact that hospitals force patients to buy medicines themselves for treatment, I do not exclude such an option.

[carstorm 11]

come on? my mother has been in the hospital for a week. in the usual. caught a covid. did not buy anything ... did not ask for anything although I myself suggested. miracles ... she was even given slippers and a dressing gown) as for the rest, but in Russia, if they were building all this, you don't need to buy? I sometimes wonder at people ... well, Pella builds her products at the new shipyard. for us by the way. that's their business. companies. does the state need an icebreaker, or do you think the years of waiting for its laying?

[svp67]

Quote: carstorm 11

come on? my mother has been in the hospital for a week. in the usual. caught a covid. did not buy anything ... did not ask for anything although I myself suggested. miracles ... they even gave her slippers and a robe)

With CoVid, nothing else, and you try to get to the hospital with any other disease, and even to the clinic. And alas, but what the medicine is asking for came across personally.

[carstorm 11]

my dad died less than two years ago. that to the doctors that the ambulances, I only say thanks how they fought for him. did not ask for anything. they did everything quickly. just a heart attack and then another blood clot came off ... I do not argue that this is possible, but my experience is the opposite of your words. and I have three more boys and I go to the doctors like a pancake to work)))

[svp67]

Quote: carstorm 11

but my experience is the opposite of your words

And thank God, God forbid, that they would not collide. It's just that I myself faced this for the first time and I will say that I was very impressed.

[Garris199]

Quote: svp67

and you try to get to the hospital with any other disease now

Better not even try. An acquaintance died in the summer. 45 years old, heart transplant. Complications on the kidneys began due to the rejection of a foreign organ, the temperature rose. I needed urgent hospitalization in cardiology, correction of immunosuppressive therapy. And they took them to tell where? In the covid compartment, but now we only have fever from covid.
In the department, he already really picked up Covid (at admission the tests were negative, and the second one was already positive) and they simply had no right to transfer him to cardio until they received negative tests. While they were scratching the turnips, time was lost, and there he died. He was a good guy, a talented IT specialist.
In the first, there was even a plot, they presented everything in such a way that he picked up Covid outside the hospital. And he did not stick his nose out of the apartment, he perfectly understood what he could turn out to be. His relatives put all the products washed under the door and he washed them all again (all packages, packages, etc.). So that..

[halpat]

Quote: carstorm 11

whose shipyard try to read) it was not bought for idle time)

Chingachgooks are still the same.
They bought Opel, bought Sulzer, bought Shtrabag, even Arsenal (football club) bought it. Mistrals were ordered. Components for MS-21 contracts were signed.
And all the same, following the results of open competitions ...
But what about? Well these are PARTNERS.
SP-2 - 2400 scrap metal along the bottom of the Baltic Sea.
Turkish stream - 2000 km, stands empty.

Awesome partnership in general. And exceptionally good news in particular.

[Zaurbek]

And it is unlikely that the Russian Federation has the production of basic systems for such a ship. Respectively Diesel and generator and drives. And steel shipbuilding is not easy.

[Svarog]

Quote: svp67

Honestly, it is not entirely clear now, why did we suddenly decide to support the workers of Germany? And ours that do not want to eat?

Do you think someone is thinking about our workers? In the USSR, they thought about it, now they are thinking about where to cut and weld more. Although I am interested in another question, the German workers need to pay 10 times more than ours .. So for whom do the authorities work?

[carstorm 11]

Pella bought herself a shipyard with a dry dock she needed. and loaded it with work. what does not suit you?)

[Svarog]

Quote: carstorm 11

Pella bought herself a shipyard with a dry dock she needed. and loaded it with work. what does not suit you?)

Will Pell's workers also be transported to Germany from Russia? On a rotational basis? Are you talking about the salary or do you think that the German workers receive many of ours?

[carstorm 11]

what do the workers have to do with it?) the plant builds an icebreaker in the interests of the customer. customer we. the shipyard belongs to Pella. wherever he wants there and will hire workers. that's their business. the state needs an icebreaker and it will get it. this is more important.

[Svarog]

Quote: carstorm 11

what do the workers have to do with it?)

I will not even communicate with you, otherwise I will get a ban .. but in general it is itching to directly explain to you, what has the workers to do with it .. in Russian, not literary ..

[carstorm 11]

well you do so often. there are no arguments), as always, look for something to dig in, but the fact that an icebreaker according to our project for our fleet is being built at our shipyard is all the same to you) as well as the fact that the USSR built for itself what it wanted in Europe, you probably also suffered for the workers then?))) but then it was possible))) but now neither nor)

[Svarog]

Quote: carstorm 11

well you do so often. there are no reasons

What other arguments do you need, our people could get a salary, but a German will get it .. Or do you think that the German family needs money more?

[carstorm 11]

once again, the USSR was building a bunch of ships in Europe. at what he paid for them and did not build in their shipyards. they could but now not? why?))) our worker will not receive a salary simply because all shipyards, even those that are just being built, are inundated with orders for years.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: carstorm 11

well you do so often. there are no reasons), as always, look for something to dig in, but the fact that an icebreaker according to our project for our fleet at our shipyard is being built for you all the same)

So I also say what he got to the bottom of you, you shout so cheerfully urryayayaya and throw your underwear into the air with or without reason that you cannot be limited. Please continue, it’s more fun with you!

[carstorm 11]

seriously?) Do you think infantile sarcasm is kind of fun?) If you show your finger, you will laugh too? otherwise I have an older daughter who is not even 10 speaks more like an adult.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: carstorm 11

seriously?) Do you think infantile sarcasm is kind of fun?) If you show your finger, you will laugh too?

Why do I need your finger? Leave it to yourself for your needs
It's enough for me to reread your writings to just enjoy life.
I am also extremely happy for your smart daughter, so you instruct her to go to VO, I think she will write more meaningful comments.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Svarog

I will not even communicate with you, otherwise I will get a ban .. but in general it is itching to directly explain to you, what has the workers to do with it .. in Russian, not literary ..

Oh, what a bad site IN! Limits, you know, freedom of speech. How long? Adyn! (srkm)

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

Oh, what a bad site IN! Limits, you know, freedom of speech. How long? Adyn! (srkm)

Hello Sidor! How do you feel?

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Stroporez

Hello Sidor! How do you feel?

Good afternoon, dear. Excellent, thanks.

[Svarog]

Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich

Quote: Stroporez

Hello Sidor! How do you feel?

Good afternoon, dear. Excellent, thanks.

You did not understand the question The answer is ridiculous .. if you could get the point ....
I never thought that one innocent question could show an attitude towards an opponent, and the answer to this question of the opponent emphasizes the depth of the opponent's thought.
Sling cutter, Bravo! This is aerobatics ..

[Lexus]

"Sound does not propagate in emptiness." (FROM)

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

I was asked a question about my health, I answered and thanked.
I always try to see the best in people, there is sin. Therefore, he answered the question as if it were completely sincere.
However, if for you and your colleagues a fig in your pocket and a stone in your bosom is a common thing, then freedom is free.

[Motorist]

Sidor Amenpodestovich, why did this trio (plus each other) attack you? Where did you cross their path? On the icebreaker: it seems to me that the power is too small for the size and class. I have met this - they will design "for the sake of" modern trends in emissions, and then - 2 knots against a more or less strong wind (not icebreakers).

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Motorist

Sidor Amenpodestovich, why did this trio (plus each other) attack you? Where did you cross their path?

I ask them uncomfortable questions that they cannot answer.
Moreover, he is also a native Muscovite. True, I have nothing to do with Gazprom or any other state-owned enterprise, except for one educational institution (not HSE, not MGIMO). But this, you know, in their eyes only aggravates some of my "guilt".

[Dmitry Makarov]

Are you aware that there is a shortage of specialists at Russian shipyards? They even want to invite qualified Indians.

[Shadow041]

And where in the Russian Federation will the specialists come from, if I personally went to production, having both work experience and education, and they offered me 18000 rubles a month there. Soon the last retirees will leave the factories in the Russian Federation and it will be possible to hang up the locks at the factories. The Germans are not going to pay 18000 rubles a month for this icebreaker ?! So why does the toad strangle you with its normal pay ?!

[Dmitry Makarov]

18 thousand is received by a cleaning lady who operates with buckets and a mop, and a qualified specialist is always in price.

[Shadow041]

You don’t tell me who gets how much, I can tell you that, but you don’t tell me !!! My father, working for RUDGORMASH, a 6th grade locksmith (the highest) receives 16000 rubles a month and they are out of time. The workers regularly, through the courts, knock out their wages. Dad is retired, he is partly satisfied with such a part-time job, and young people will not come to you. At VASO, they offered me 18000 rubles a month, on condition that I sign a contract for 3 years, by the way, in the ad these crooks indicated a higher salary and without obligations to limit themselves in finding higher-paid jobs ... For you, only you are in price themselves, sleeping in GOSDURA for unreasonably high salaries. Therefore, in our area, at the elections, they merged your choking party

[mitroha]

Seems to me you are exaggerating

[Beby]

Perhaps the comrade is exaggerating ... or maybe not (the year when the indicated wage level was offered is not specified!). However, under capitalism, the problem of excessive management greed seems to be quite natural.

I even met an article in which, in general, the truest truths about interaction with the work collective in the conditions of capitalist reality are set forth, as well as a little history of the rake trip: "Whoever does not feed his engineer, feeds someone else's ... or his former" (says General Director of PKK Milander JSC M. I. Pavlyuk). The curious can read here: https://www.milandr.ru/upload/smi/kto_ne_kormit_svoego_inzhenera_kormit_chuzhogo_ili_byvshego_svoego.pdf

[carstorm 11]

Are you rushing or what?))) What kind of state fool are sleeping?))) After leaving the army, I work in a large company in a normal position with a normal salary. I have not been a member of the parties and do not intend to. brother runs a large construction company in which he started as a simple operator of RBU. if you can't find a normal job, why does a nice person get it?)))

[Svarog]

Quote: Dmitry Makarov

Are you aware that there is a shortage of specialists at Russian shipyards? They even want to invite qualified Indians.

They do not want to pay .. and soon there will be no specialists at all with your "wise" ruler ..

[Dmitry Makarov]

Well, there were no orders from the Russian shipbuilders for 20 years, and then suddenly, like a cornucopia, they poured in, where could so many specialists be taken at once?
And look how much the capacity of Russian shipyards has increased, and how many new ones have been built. But even this is not enough, so they buy shipyards abroad, and not only in Germany.

[Shadow041]

Something you do not pay German salaries at the enterprises of the Russian Federation, therefore there are no specialists, but you would pay normally, as there would be no shortage of Germans and specialists. In addition, the Germans do not work for 12 hours per shift, as in the Russian Federation, there, for such a trade unions from the huckster 7 skins will be lowered and neither the police nor officials will stand up for such a huckster. It is in the Russian Federation that you think that if a person receives 40000 rubles a month, then he should live at work, leaving both his family and his problems ... You pay the Germans a lot more and do not treat them like that in a rude way.

[Motorist]

Quote: Shadow041

Germans do not work for 12 hours per shift, as in the Russian Federation,

They also work hard.

Quote: Shadow041

for this, the trade unions from the huckster will lower 7 skins

Trade unions are silent in a rag.

[Bear040]

My friend's sister now lives in a German provincial town, works, is married to a German, he is also an employee. So don't tell us tales of oppressed Germans supposedly working 12 hours a day for a stew of beans. The Germans do not live like that, but in the Russian Federation they have not gone far from this. A pension of 11000 rubles a month in the Russian Federation is fascism !!!

[Motorist]

Hello. It depends on what he has written in the contract: maybe "40 hours a week, but in case ..." And the cases, you know, are different ... Now, in general, the crown, and he can work half a shift, or at a distance.

At the moment, under the pretext of the crown, there are reductions in jobs for working specialties (turners or milling cutters, for example), in fact, the remaining capacities are being transferred to China. And other workers also suffer (catering, services, clerks). Unfortunately, this is not a fairy tale; I write what I know ...

For pensions - a separate conversation. In short - not everything is so rosy in the long term. The so-called system. solidary, and fewer and fewer workers; also "refugees", which for some reason the Germans must contain.

[Bear040]

And with all this, they live there the way most in the Russian Federation can only dream. There is no question of 20-hour shifts, although maybe somewhere in the German units of the Emergencies Ministry they serve, or they work in hospitals. And at the expense of refugees, the Russian Federation also feeds those who have come in large numbers from patients with Russophobia from the countries of the former USSR, idlers, the lion's share of whom wants live on benefits for refugees, or robberies, I know a lot of such stories, including those with those who have come in large numbers from UKROPIA, who need somewhere from the call to the ATO

[Motorist]

Quote: Bear040

they live there the way most in the Russian Federation can only dream. And at the expense of refugees, so the Russian Federation feeds come in large numbers from patients with Russophobia of the countries of the former USSR

You, most likely, have distorted information - both about "feeding" and about the "dreams" of Russians. I will not argue. All the best!

[Bear040]

It's simple, dear man. The Germans are in no hurry to obtain Russian citizenship, and people with a decent education leave the Russian Federation for Germany on a regular basis. Instead of those who left, the Russian Federation receives uneducated bandits who have pinned themselves from some Uzbekistan (last year the FSB of the Russian Federation neutralized a gang of Uzbeks that were engaged in murders and robberies on highways near Moscow. According to preliminary data, the gang has more than 100 corpses). These are not funny things. So everything is more than obvious.

[Bersaglieri]

Exactly. An excellent investment, by the way: a full cycle shipyard.

[mitroha]

Quote: carstorm 11

what does not suit you?)

He is always not satisfied with everything. Nature is so

[Woodman]

Quote: Svarog

Do you think someone is thinking about our workers? They thought about it in the USSR

You would be interested in the history of the issue to begin with ...
OCEAN CLASS SERIES VESSELS:

Vessels of the "Anna Akhmatova" type
Country of construction: Poland
Year Built: 1989
Total ships: 2

Ships of the "Dmitry Shostakovich" type
Country of construction: Poland
Year of construction: 1980-1986
Total ships: 7

Vessels of the type "Belarus"
Country of construction: Finland
Year of construction: 1975-1976
Total ships: 5

Vessels of the "Maria Ermolova" type
Country of construction: SFRY (Yugoslavia)
Year of construction: 1974-1978
Total ships: 8

Yushar type vessels
Country of construction: Bulgaria
Year Built: 1970
Total ships: 3

Ships of the "Ivan Franko" type
Country of construction: GDR
Year of construction: 1964-1972
Total ships: 5

Alupka type ships
Country of construction: Bulgaria
Year of construction: 1960-1965
Total ships: 12

Vessels of the "Mikhail Kalinin" type
Country of construction: GDR
Year of construction: 1958-1964
Total ships: 19

Ships like "Leonid Sobinov"
Country of construction: UK
Year of construction: 1954-1955
Total ships: 2

Ships of the "Norilsk" type
Country of construction: Italy
Year Built: 1951
Total ships: 2

"Serial construction of icebreakers for the Soviet Union began on March 14, 1952, when the shipyard received orders for two sea icebreakers of 10 hp. One of them, Kapitan Belousov, is now the only icebreaker in Ukraine and is working to pilot ships in the Sea of ​​Azov. ...

The peak of the construction of icebreakers for the USSR fell on the 50-80s. Among the icebreaking ships built at the Helsinki shipyard: a series of polar icebreakers of the Moskva type (5 units), Arctic icebreakers of the Kapitan Sorokin type (4 units), river shallow icebreakers of the Kapitan Evdokimov type (9 units), river icebreakers of the Kapitan Chechkin class (6 units), subarctic icebreakers of the Mudyug class (3 units), diesel icebreakers of the Ermak type (3 units - Admiral Makarov and Krasin). Also, the shipyard made two nuclear-powered icebreakers "Vaygach" and "Taimyr" "
And this is not the whole list ...

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Lesovik

You would be interested in the history of the issue to begin with ...
OCEAN CLASS SERIES VESSELS:

Vessels of the "Anna Akhmatova" type
Country of construction: Poland
Year Built: 1989

What do you mean by that? The overwhelming majority of the countries you listed are member countries of the CMEA and the socialist camp.
Have you heard the thread about economic-integration cooperation within the CMEA?

[Woodman]

Quote: Stroporez

What do you mean by that?

Just what I said. For, apparently, Svarog is sure that the USSR did not build ships on foreign lines.

Quote: Stroporez

most of the countries you listed are member countries of the CMEA and the socialist camp

But not all. There are also NATO countries.

[Brturin]

Quote: Lesovik

Also, the shipyard made two nuclear-powered icebreakers "Vaigach" and "Taimyr" "

They will work more ...
General Director of Atomflot M. Kashka - by the end of 2020 we plan to extend the service life of the reactor plant for icebreakers Taimyr and Vaygach from 200 thousand to 235 thousand hours. Depending on the intensity of operation, this will be enough until 2026-2028. Rosatom is extending the service life of existing nuclear-powered icebreakers in order to prevent an ice break when ships are taken out of service before new nuclear-powered icebreakers are commissioned. https://neftegaz.ru/news/Suda-i-sudostroenie/637068-rosatom-prodlit-srok-ekspluatatsii-dvukh-svoikh-atomnykh-ledokolov/

[Woodman]

Quote: BrTurin

They will work more ...

Yes, I mean that the Finns built them, and put our reactors in the Union.

[Brturin]

Quote: Lesovik

Yes, I mean that the Finns built them, and our reactors were installed in the Union.

I wrote above why now this is not done only with the Germans ... there are such options ...

The construction of 40 MW LNG icebreakers has been discussed since 2017. It was planned to order four vessels to operate in the Kara Sea and the Gulf of Ob ... The cost of four icebreakers in 2019 was estimated at 60 billion rubles. Among the possible executors of the order was named Vyborg Shipyard (part of USC) in cooperation with the Finnish Helsinki Shipyard Oy, Far East "Star", as well as the Chinese Hudong in cooperation with the Korean Samsung or Hyundai. https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/4550349

These icebreakers have their own history ... "We see that the weather also allows us in this matter, the climate is also changing, and our gas carriers also show themselves very well there, in terms of the fact that when these early flights were made in May, practically they went all the way along the Northern Sea Route on their own "- Director of the Sea Transportation Department of NOVATEK Alexander Semenov

[Squelcher]

Under the USSR, ships were built all over the world for full-weight gold. And in Japan, Norway, the German Democratic Republic, Poland, Finland, Belgium, not really thinking about the Soviet workers. Even the ships built in the USSR, automation, control systems, and critical equipment are entirely abroad. Even the engines on the boats are copies of the Dutch licenses.

[Bersaglieri]

Exactly! For they counted money.

[Squelcher]

Approximately the ratio of ship production for the USSR in the period from 71 to 85 was as follows: domestic factories produced 35% of ships, socialist countries - 32,8%; Western European countries and Japan 32,2%, that is, two-thirds of all purchased in the USSR.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: svp67

Honestly, it is not entirely clear now, why did we suddenly decide to support the workers of Germany? And ours that do not want to eat?

Are our shipyards idle? Are the ships out of work sitting?

[K-50]

Quote: svp67

Honestly, it is not entirely clear now, why did we suddenly decide to support the workers of Germany? And ours that do not want to eat?

Politics. Are they waiting for the Germans to bend under us?
Maybe we didn't have enough stocks?

[Sling cutter]

Quote: svp67

Honestly, it is not entirely clear now, why did we suddenly decide to support the workers of Germany? And ours that do not want to eat?

Colleague, this is an achievement of Putinism! Where are we so great and obstinate to get a shipyard?
Instruct the Wrotenberg to build it? But unfortunately, their mental abilities are seriously limited, because the diploma of a physical education teacher is their real ceiling.
We do not have the opportunity to build a full-fledged icebreaker fleet, just like the military and merchant.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: svp67

Honestly, it is not entirely clear now, why did we suddenly decide to support the workers of Germany? And ours that do not want to eat?

Because this is Pella. They do not have a Russian dock of this size. Therefore, they build in their dock abroad.
For some reason, when Vyborg was building the ICE of the previous version of the project in Finland, nobody really worried.

[Boris Chernikov]

elementary, because all shipyards in Russia are filled with orders, and here, almost for nothing, a good shipyard ... and the impact on the industry is also politics

[g1v2]

Pella is the only shipyard where they can build such ships. They won the order.

[_M_]

And you read how the Vyborg shipbuilding plant previously "built" icebreakers from the previous series. He "builds" so many things. He missed all the deadlines, and there, apparently, everything was in his pockets ... (Here, the other day the co-owner was banged). And then there is order, responsibility, timing

[iouris]

Quote: svp67

And ours that do not want to eat?

They don't want to eat anymore. Just drink.
"Would you like to help the starving children of Germany?" (Bulgakov M.A. "Dog's heart")

[Zircon]

No matter how it turned out, as with the "Mistrals" .. And so of course let the Germans work for Russia .. We have the most powerful icebreaker fleet in the world. We need to keep our brand!

[Borik]

No matter how it turned out, as with the "Mistrals"

NOT the case. The shipyard is Russian, although it is located in Germany.

[Zircon]

Quote: Borik

No matter how it turned out, as with the "Mistrals"

NOT the case. The shipyard is Russian, although it is located in Germany.

The United States, in order to shit, they will invent something .. They will impose sanctions on mom, do not cry, and the Germans will cowardly keep silent and surrender

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Borik

NOT the case. Russian shipyard,

Are you sure?

[iouris]

Quote: Borik

The shipyard is Russian, although it is located in Germany.

The shipyard, although "Russian" (?), Is located in Germany (!) It would be better if the shipyard was German, but located in the Russian Federation.
In ten days, a Dutch court will rule on the Yukos case for $ 57 billion. And sho?

[Borik]

iouris (iouris)
Today, 17: 38
NEW

-1
Quote: Borik
The shipyard is Russian, although it is located in Germany.

The shipyard, although "Russian" (?), Is located in Germany (!) It would be better if the shipyard was German, but located in the Russian Federation.
In ten days, a Dutch court will rule on the Yukos case for $ 57 billion. And sho?

Pella is a private company and not a public company. So it is unlikely that anyone will sue her in the Yukos case.

[iouris]

Quote: Borik

it is unlikely that anyone will sue her in the Yukos case.

I suspect that it was for the sake of these $ 57 billion that the airliner "crashed" over Donbass. And the management of this particular "private company" will be "sanctioned", so no one will doubt whether it is possible to confiscate property or not. Is that $ 57 billion will be rolled out on a silver platter (immediately, not in parts).

[Alexey RA]

Anticipating future resentment about the place of the bookmark, I draw your attention:

The shipyard in Neuenfeld (Hamburg region), which existed since 1635, went bankrupt in 2014 and was acquired by the Russian Pella.

[carstorm 11]

all the same 90 percent reads across) will not help.

[And Makarov]

The case when "a Russian plows on the Germans"

[Svarog]

Quote: A Makarov

The case when "a Russian plows on the Germans"

The case when a German earns on poor Russians, and a beggar Russian ... who at one time beat this German, collects children by SMS for treatment .. It makes me sick of all this ..

[And Makarov]

I understand you are boiling .. But the shipyard still belongs to Pella, that's why they bought it. By the way, in order to give your citizens a job, you can send them there. The Chinese do this all the time.

[Shadow041]

So the Chinese. Pella will not do that, there are no `` Chinese '' in the leadership.

[Borsht]

Quote: A Makarov

By the way, in order to give your citizens a job, you can send them there.

Ha ha ha! These rotten devils (the "Pella" leadership) often delay our workers' wages, sometimes for two months. And the German workers probably had a hard time at all, because the company first of all paid off with the workers in Russia, because this is a Russian company! (Ha-ha-ha) I think that the German employees of a Russian company, with such a nice thing as "delayed wages" phenomenon - unfamiliar - wild people. ))

[Nasrat]

Quote: Svarog

... he collects sms for children for treatment .. It makes me sick ..

He vomits ... now even though they collect money and send them for treatment, and during the Soviet era, these children did not have a chance for life and health in general - the state swept them over the carpet of the general goodness of the communist society, just as it swept all the disabled there too ...

[donavi49]

Well, there is one BUT. If the anti-Russian little Merkel comes to Germany. Or there will be a new exacerbation in the Donbass / someone is eating a tea with a Novice. That ships can be arrested. Generally easy. Yes, Putin will speak - we could not even think of such lawlessness on the part of the EU. But there will be no ships.

[Svarog]

Quote: donavi49

Generally easy. Yes, Putin will speak - we could not even think of such lawlessness on the part of the EU. But there will be no ships.

But they will withdraw the money ..

[Lexus]

There they will be "shod".

[And Makarov]

Quote: donavi49

ships can be arrested. Generally easy. Yes, Putin will speak - we could not even think of such lawlessness on the part of the EU. But there will be no ships

By the way, the probability of this is not at all zero. Pella also builds for the Navy. This means that it threatens the spread of "Western contagion democracy ".

[Shadow041]

Why Hamburg ?! As in Russia, we do not want to pay German salaries, but how to pay them to the Germans, or the French, for Misrali, it’s always so good ... Is it not time for you gentlemen to get out of the Russian Federation in this situation, since you are only interested in how Milch cow?!

[Svarog]

Quote: Shadow041

Isn't it time for you gentlemen in this situation to get out of the Russian Federation, since you are only interested in it only as a cash cow ?!

Exactly ... they come here on a rotational basis .. They earn money, they take them there .. They really want to become handshakes there ..

[Shadow041]

They have already been given to understand that people like them will never be considered people there, it's time to draw conclusions !!! Everyone uses traitors, but they are consumables and there is no respect for them.

[Lexus]

With their servile servility, our crooks and thieves of all ranks have achieved that any offerings from them are perceived as a tribute from the vassals, and the fines paid meekly "do not care what" - as a clear signal that it is possible and necessary to milk further.

[Thrall]

Quote: Shadow041

Why in Hamburg?

Read more than just the title

[Svetlana]

Pidypki. Do they have few examples from modern history, when the money of Russian taxpayers and time was consumed in the fire of sanctions?
An idiotic, non-governmental decision. And even thoughts of a pullback creep in.

[Alien From]

I hope it won't work with mistrals!

[Constanty]

Many Russian / Soviet / Russian icebreakers were built abroad - starting with the Ermak - and during the Soviet era - for example, in Finland. It is possible that at the time, the shipyards that built numerous ships for WMF were lacking production capacity.

Now it is strange when Russian shipyards are struggling with a shortage of orders - it is better to leave money in the country and earn money for their citizens, and no one knows how, but no one knows icebreakers better than Russia.

[A009]

Why did you decide to deal with the lack of orders? Maybe on the contrary, and the reason is different? If I remember correctly, even on the star (not yet fully completed) capacities have been contracted for 7 years ahead)

[Constanty]

Because in Russia there are many shipyards and few ships are built taking into account their capabilities. One "star" doesn't make spring

[A009]

If I remember correctly, in the last quarter of 20, we took the 2nd place in terms of tonnage. After Korea and ahead (by 20 thousand tons) China. It is not enough?
And if we are to be completely objective, tell those shipyards (operating) that are idle and have no orders? At least 1 shipyard.

[Constanty]

Admiralty Shipyards ? Northern shipyard?

[A009]

No offense, but you ....!
I will quote - "Now the capacities of the Admiralty shipyards are fully loaded: two series of submarines for the Russian Navy are under construction, the ice-class patrol ships Ivan Papanin and Nikolay Zubov, a series of six large freezer fishing trawlers that have no analogues. in the world ice-resistant self-propelled platform "North Pole". The order book is formed until 2024. "

[Constanty]

Apart from submarines and stations, these are little things. I thought this shipyard had a lot more production capacity - at least it did before. I'm sorry.
But if it's so good, why is it so bad?

[A009]

"Igor Ponamarev, General Director of the Severnaya Verf shipyard, said that the company has orders until 2029."
What's the difference a trifle or not? orders for many years to come. Is there any point in taking them even if they don’t make them? So they are looking for where to do. They buy shipyards abroad. And if you think about it, then fundamentally this is a sign that they are building more, more capacities working for Russia, and as a result, plus from any side (at least that Pella pays taxes in Russia, correct if wrong)

[Constanty]

I don't know where Pella pays taxes - although not necessarily in Russia - multinational corporations or companies with companies in different countries often avoid paying taxes due to creative accounting - at least that's the case in Poland - I don't know how I admit It's in Russia

[bk316]

it's the little things

well, last week another Warsaw woman was handed over to the ranks
2 more are under construction
and 3 more in the process of bookmarking
it's all the little things mister balabol

[Constanty]

I wrote clearly:

Beyond submarines and stations, it's the little things

For me, such a well-deserved shipyard that built battleships and many other large ships, while bragging about building six large freezer fishing trawlers and some patrol ships - yes, little things.
A single icebreaker in question would provide more profit (and savings for the government) than these fishing trawlers

[bk316]

on which battleships were built

When was the last time battleships were built on it?
And how will the battleship profit?
And in general, 20 Warsaw women more abruptly than 2 battleships will be ...
I understand that you personally DO NOT HAVE ANY ATTITUDE AT ALL TO THE ADMIRALTES, and you don’t know much about them.
Well, I will say that the Admiralty is one of the few who have successfully survived the 90s and are developing normally.

[Constanty]

There is nothing more for demagoguery and polemics.
I still believe that it would be more profitable to build one Project 21900M2 icebreaker at this shipyard than six fishing trawlers.

But you're right - I only know the history of this shipyard (I am a historian dealing with the Navy) and not very well the current times

[bk316]

I still believe that it would be more profitable to build one Project 21900M2 icebreaker at this shipyard than six fishing trawlers ..

1. We are doing well with icebreakers, especially in terms of the pace of construction. But the fishing fleet while trouble (lost in the 90s).
2. The ability to build one icebreaker is not the same as 6 trawlers (different shipyards are needed).
3. The Admiralty ones are not loaded with trawlers, but with Warsaw women. A citizen is a good extra income for them.
3. When you write about microbes, even if you ask what kind of trawler the Admiralty is building. It has a displacement almost like this icebreaker.

And why did Pella not please you in the end?
Of course, my acquaintances work in the Admiralty and I respect them, but Pella is also a worthy campaign.

[Constanty]

3. When you write about microbes, even if you ask what kind of trawler the Admiralty is building. It has a displacement almost like this icebreaker.

I confess I didn't know. Then I was wrong

[bk316]

Admiralty Shipyards ? Northern shipyard?

And what about the Baltic did not ask?
Does the training manual not allow?
THERE IS 2 NUCLEAR icebreakers in shipyards.
Do you understand?
There is not a single nuclear power plant in the world, but we have 2 at one plant as it was at the best time in the USSR.
Do you really not know this or the owners forbid you to know?

[Constanty]

So what? Instead of building "microorganisms" at home and paying big money for a complex and expensive ship abroad, in my opinion, it would be more profitable for Russia to build cheap "microbes" abroad, and at home, for example, icebreakers - not only nuclear in fact are a showcase of the USSR / RF.
This, of course, is just my opinion, and the Lord (without adding epithets) may have his own opinion!

[Elephant]

Quote: A009

- tell those shipyards (operating) that are idle and have no orders? At least 1 shipyard.

The one near Murmansk, where the PD-50 drowned, is idle. Yes, and the Kerch Bay would have pulled the construction of an icebreaker. Something similar was once built there, for example. nuclear-powered lighter carrier "Sevmorput". https://zalivkerch.com/galereya/foto.html

[bk316]

And the Kerch Bay

Firstly, the bay will soon be fully loaded, and secondly, the fact that he built 40 years ago does not mean that he can now.

[K-50]

Dimensions and displacement are identical to battleships of the times of the RYAV.

[awg75]

As I understand it, the story with the Mistrals has taught absolutely nothing to anyone.

[Livonetc]

Quote: Dmitry Makarov

Where are you going to build an icebreaker in Russia now?
All shipyards are packed with orders for 5 years ahead.

And Russian shipyards are now busy with the construction of icebreakers as well.
The Northern Sea Route is preparing to become regular.
Icebreakers will have plenty of icebreakers along the NSR route.
And what about entering a shipyard in Germany.
So one more peg of Germany's strong binding to cooperation, so that it does not wiggle to the side.

[Serg662]

[quote = Shadow041] The USSR sold weapons to these countries for foreign currency (to Finland, for example), and what do you sell to Germany to build ships at its shipyards, but the non-comunity people?! [/
So the USSR also ordered ships in Germany (gas carriers, for example). And what kind of “weapons for currency” did the Union sell in Germany, can you tell us? Oh, well, yes, "you don't understand, this is different"

[dgonni]

The key news is what will be built in Hamburg!
One can envy the team of the icebreaker when it comes into operation.

[Mikhail S.]

Quote: Livonetc

So one more peg of Germany's strong binding to cooperation, so that it does not wiggle to the side.

We are building nuclear power plants with pipelines, all do not even dare to utter a word.

[Martian]

Marasmus. The Germans are saved by our oligofeny..And they will pay taxes collected in Russia. The fact that the shipyard is "redeemed" is how they redeem the islands in warm seas with palm trees. Will money be exported from Russia now, too? We have 2 factories in Crimea in idle time ... That would be revived ..

[Sergey39]

Quote: Elephant

PD-50 330 m long, 80 wide

I will add: 40 years from the date of issue.

[Lexus]

Everything you need to know about the publicized "import substitution".

[Ax Matt]

Hamburg ... I don’t understand, is it somewhere in Russia? No? And then what about the type of complete transition to your own? Or do we want to get (not get) another "mistral" again? You need to load your shipyards when it comes to "for yourself", and on these acquired ones you need to earn money by doing for sale abroad.

[Sergey Matveev]

Quote: Ax Matt

And then what about the type of complete transition to your own?

This is our "import substitution" in full swing. Is it not noticeable?

[Radical]

Quote: carstorm 11

But what difference does it make to you?) They seem to be building an icebreaker for us and not for someone. when the USSR built ships all over Europe did it annoy you too?)

When the USSR was building throughout Europe, there was no unemployment in it!

[Radical]

Quote: Dmitry Makarov

Are you aware that there is a shortage of specialists at Russian shipyards? They even want to invite qualified Indians.

Who is to blame for this? Bolsheviks?

[bk316]

Who is to blame for this? Bolsheviks? winked

Do you have bipolar disorder?

They write to you "and the USSR built ships abroad."
You answered "then there was no unemployment."
You are answered "SO NOW IN SHIPBUILDING it is not."
And you "who is to blame"?

Are you arguing with yourself? Is it the fault that there is no unemployment? Or is it that it is? So she's not there!

[IS-1]

The workers of Germany must work with us as Russians, and not under the dictation of the United States and others ..
Otherwise, the Anglo-Saxons will play us off again

[Sergey Matveev]

Why play us off? The Germans have always been our enemies without the Anglo-Saxons.

[tralflot1832]

The good news. Vyborgsky starred because Pella would build the same thing, but three billion dollars cheaper. And the scandal with Petrov got out. Monitor shipbuilding, I never thought that we have so many shipyards. Some of the scrap metal were reanimated. All construction slipways are a lot years are loaded with orders. Some manage to sell the body of the river-sea to the west in whole series. If only the Kerch Bay was reanimated in full, it was generally good, before there were 150 buildings. Kuzbass looked beautiful in the Kola Bay in the mid-000s against Cape Abram. Tonnage a decent one is being built, even a couple of months were the second after China in terms of the number of ships in the plans for construction. And what kind of fishermen we build, not everyone has such. According to the most modern projects of the Norgs and Icelanders. And these are ahead of the whole planet in terms of fishermen. imported, but the best. Some Vyartsilya are worth something, the dream of a ship mechanic. Under the USSR, they were always under sanctions, but because of problems with imported spare parts, ships did not stand even now. All that is being built for the NSR will fly under the Russian flag. Except for the Novatek fleet, just because they were the first to start. Zvezda and Leader 90 tons of hull structures have already been welded and Afromax are being stamped.

[Tneburashka]

If I were a sailor, a polar explorer, I would like to work on this icebreaker, because everything is German there, from turbines to a bathroom, as they say, change oils in time and will work forever

[tralflot1832]

There will be German hands, with their punctuality. And the filling is the best from all over the world. Logistics is convenient. I hope Pella will have a "stone flower", this is their first such "steamer" of such a tonnage. You look at the Leningrad Pella, your soul rejoices everything is clean, neat ...

[bk316]

You look at the Leningrad Pella, the soul rejoices, everything is clean, neat.

Let's see if a new BIG shipbuilder is emerging ..

[tralflot1832]

So such shipbuilders revived the sea across Russia. Dial the operating shipyards of Russia, you will be pleasantly surprised.

[zloybond]

Now I read: Hamburg is laid down ... then all the patriotic nonsense is just to be written off ...

[Klingon]

Quote: Shadow041

It will build, this is when they built in the Russian Federation, creating jobs in the Russian Federation, and not when the Germans were fed with pickles, to the detriment of their own population !!!

there are no shipyards and cranes in the Russian Federation, how many we knocked about with Kuznetsov, deciding where to repair it when the floating dock was buzzed

[Bear040]

In the Russian Federation, there is no competent leadership, who would need the Russian Federation as a homeland, and not as a cash cow, so there are no floating docks, nothing but false nonsense on TV, starting with fables about average salaries in the Russian Federation and ending with fables about import substitution. Now, if a contract was signed with the Germans for the construction of a new shipyard in the Russian Federation, I would still be glad, and the construction of another mistral trough in Germany, which is not a fact that they will give it up, and if they do, it will have to be serviced for life in a three-way in Germany pleases, despite the fact that in the Russian Federation itself there is no unemployment and German salaries ...

[Klingon]

Well, yes, everything is right. it would be better to build a shipyard. And the boat will definitely not be given back, it is worth moving a striped little finger

[bk316]

there are no shipyards and cranes in the Russian Federation,

Wow, there are no cranes for the port icebreaker, but 2 nuclear ones are under construction

[Alexfly]

Well, and why feed the German workers, they could build in Vyboga ... The withdrawal of money to Abroad, period.

[bk316]

About how the wrestlers, the urapatriots and the pan-heads began to bark at quite positive news.
Calm down and accept.
1. The Russian Federation has the most powerful icebreaker fleet in the world.
2. The Russian Federation has the most powerful icebreaker fleet in construction.
3. The Russian Federation has the only nuclear-powered icebreaker fleet in the world on the move.
4. The Russian Federation has the only nuclear icebreaker fleet in the world in construction.
All shipyards that can actually produce icebreakers are loaded.
Some are icebreakers (like the Baltic ones) and some are more serious (like the Admiralty ones).
Buying production abroad is, according to your (the communists) beloved LENIN, the exploitation of foreign workers. Rejoice, not all Germans exploit us, the time has come and there are not many of them. And this happened because the Russian Federation is the undisputed leader in icebreaking.

[Klingon]

but in my opinion, urya-patriot is just YOU))

[bk316]

but in my opinion, urya-patriot is just YOU))

Urya this patriot who distorts the facts well, or completely misjudges them.
Which of points 1-4 do you have doubts about?

[Lex_is]

By the way, this is not a German shipyard, but a Russian one, bought by Pella back in 2014.

Yes, with what with what, but with the icebreaker fleet in recent years, everything is fine.

22220 "Arctic" was transferred to "Atomflot" October 22
They are being completed afloat: 22220 "Siberia", "Ural" - are being completed afloat.
10510 "Leader" - laid, under construction.
And a lot of non-nuclear ones have been designed and built.

[Radical]

Quote: bk316

Who is to blame for this? Bolsheviks? winked

Do you have bipolar disorder?

They write to you "and the USSR built ships abroad."
You answered "then there was no unemployment."
You are answered "SO NOW IN SHIPBUILDING it is not."
And you "who is to blame"?

Are you arguing with yourself? Is it the fault that there is no unemployment? Or is it that it is? So she's not there!

It is you who very cleverly distort my questions, although they are very clear - one of the commentators complains that there is a shortage of specialists in shipbuilding, and I ask the question "Who is to blame for this? The Bolsheviks?" ... The sarcasm here is obvious - the Bolsheviks are blamed for almost all the troubles that are happening in the country. You are a worthy example in this process. I do not know if you have any disorder, but looking at your comments on your profile, we can assume that you have manuals from the Higher School of Economics, or maybe from the AP.

[bk316]

It can be assumed that your comments are from the Higher School of Economics, or maybe from the AP.

You have these manuals.
Evidence.
An article about the new icebreaker, that is, about the successes in icebreaker construction, with which we are already doing well.
You are slipping on the topic and under the Bolsheviks it was better and who is to blame.
ARTICLE ABOUT SUCCESS, AND YOU'RE GUILTY!
This is disorder. In a simple way, "who is about what and lousy about the bath." Well, or it's not a disorder but a training manual.
I, unlike you, do not slip from the topic, for example, to "the Bolsheviks are to blame for everything."
Clear.?
If you want to discuss a topic that is not related to the topic of the article well, for example, "what are the Bolsheviks to blame" for God's sake ,. BUT I DO NOT ACCUSE THEM IN THE CURRENT POSITION IN THE ICEBREAKING FLEET.
Not even because they have nothing to do with this situation, but because there is no need to blame anyone, everything is fine with us (with the icebreaker fleet). - it is the most powerful in the world.

[Radical]

Quote: Tneburashka

If I were a sailor, a polar explorer, I would like to work on this icebreaker, because everything is German there, from turbines to a bathroom, as they say, change oils in time and will work forever

Following this logic, if you were a tanker, you would gladly sit at the levers of the Tiger-T-VI, or the Panther-TV?

[Radical]

Quote: bk316

It can be assumed that your comments are from the Higher School of Economics, or maybe from the AP.

You have these manuals.
Evidence.
An article about the new icebreaker, that is, about the successes in icebreaker construction, with which we are already doing well.
You are slipping on the topic and under the Bolsheviks it was better and who is to blame.
ARTICLE ABOUT SUCCESS, AND YOU'RE GUILTY!
This is disorder. In a simple way, "who is about what and lousy about the bath." Well, or it's not a disorder but a training manual.
I, unlike you, do not slip from the topic, for example, to "the Bolsheviks are to blame for everything."
Clear.?
If you want to discuss a topic that is not related to the topic of the article well, for example, "what are the Bolsheviks to blame" for God's sake ,. BUT I DO NOT ACCUSE THEM IN THE CURRENT POSITION IN THE ICEBREAKING FLEET.
Not even because they have nothing to do with this situation, but because there is no need to blame anyone, everything is fine with us (with the icebreaker fleet). - it is the most powerful in the world.

Then the question is - why is the icebreaker fleet, the most powerful in the world, and the Navy resembles the remaining remnants of the squadron after the Tsushima battle?

[bk316]

Then the question is - why is the icebreaker fleet, the most powerful in the world, and the Navy resembles the remaining remnants of the squadron after the Tsushima battle?

This is what I am trying to convey to you.

The news is positive, the fact of the power of the icebreaker fleet is obvious, AND YOU ARE TRYING TO FIND NEGATIVE, of course you find it, BUT NOT ON THE TOPIC. This is all-propalschik with a training manual.

You become like those critics of the USSR who asked "if the USSR has such a powerful economy, where is the sausage?" Or "if it is so good in the USSR, why are people running over the hill in thousands?"

There are answers to these questions, as well as to your question, only it is not on the topic of the article - that is, FLUD.
But you persistently flood, so we come to the question of what the Bolsheviks are to blame. They are to blame for the fact that in spite of the MUCH repeated warnings from Lenin and Stalin they did not clear their ranks of radicals, blinkered and ossified. Do you understand who the hint is?

[Radical]

Quote: bk316

Then the question is - why is the icebreaker fleet, the most powerful in the world, and the Navy resembles the remaining remnants of the squadron after the Tsushima battle?

This is what I am trying to convey to you.

The news is positive, the fact of the power of the icebreaker fleet is obvious, AND YOU ARE TRYING TO FIND NEGATIVE, of course you find it, BUT NOT ON THE TOPIC. This is all-propalschik with a training manual.

You become like those critics of the USSR who asked "if the USSR has such a powerful economy, where is the sausage?" Or "if it is so good in the USSR, why are people running over the hill in thousands?"

There are answers to these questions, as well as to your question, only it is not on the topic of the article - that is, FLUD.
But you persistently flood, so we come to the question of what the Bolsheviks are to blame. They are to blame for the fact that in spite of the MUCH repeated warnings from Lenin and Stalin they did not clear their ranks of radicals, blinkered and ossified. Do you understand who the hint is?

You don't want to answer a direct question, instead, you are engaged in demagoguery, and the same flood, a very convenient position of individual people (by the way, the guarantor from this category) to blame others, including those who are not alive, instead of objectively face the truth. But the truth is that icebreakers "bake like hot cakes" because they help to earn money on the year-round export of hydrocarbons and other raw materials, and the bulk of the money earned for this goes by no means into the budget, and, accordingly, is not used for building a powerful ocean-going fleet. Both you and most of those present here know and understand this, but not all of them say it directly.