Military Review

Success on the ground of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces is ensured by the actual control of the airspace in Karabakh

119

The Azerbaijani army continues to make attempts to move towards the so-called Lachin corridor - a road connecting Armenia with the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic through Berdzor (Lachin). Recently, the Azerbaijani side has intensified shelling of Armenian positions with the use of artillery, both cannon and reactive.


At the same time, it is obvious that drones of the Azerbaijani armed forces play a special role in reconnaissance of the positions of the NKR troops. With their help, in addition to reconnaissance, adjustments are made to firing at enemy positions.

The Azerbaijani Ministry of Defense is showing another video, where the results of the strikes were filmed using a drone:


From this video it becomes clear that in the conflict zone of the NKR there is a situation when the ground forces are practically deprived of not only air support, but also are not provided with means of suppressing the activity of drones. What this leads to can be seen in the presented frames.


Both single and group targets are destroyed. At the same time, the destruction is carried out with high efficiency at night, which makes it extremely difficult to regroup Armenian forces and assets in the conflict zone. In fact, any movement is monitored from the air, data is transmitted to the command center, followed by strikes, leading to the destruction of both military equipment and personnel in well-equipped positions.

Actual control of the airspace in the conflict zone in Karabakh ensures success for the Azerbaijani troops on the ground. This is clearly demonstrated in the above videos of the Azerbaijani military department.
119 comments
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  1. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 30 October 2020 06: 02
    19
    Surrender soon.
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 30 October 2020 06: 09
      -6
      Surrender soon.
      And who knows, we'll see.
      ... there is a situation where the ground forces are practically deprived of not only air support, but also not provided with means of suppressing the activity of drones. What this leads to can be seen in the presented frames.
      But I absolutely like this phrase of the Ministry of Defense of Azerbaijan !!! Like think neschasnye, who has not yet bought Russian air defense systems !!!
      1. sergey32
        sergey32 30 October 2020 07: 07
        +4
        Based on the results of this war, conclusions will be drawn about the need to saturate the troops with means of combating numerous drones.
        I dare to offer my purely civilian IMHO. Means of struggle should be relatively cheap and they should be enough to repel multiple means of attack (a flock of kamikaze drones, for example).
        On the march, the military column, the KVM, should be covered by helicopters. At positions, in addition to the existing air defense, it was possible to reactivate large-caliber anti-aircraft guns (100-130 mm) from storage. Develop a shrapnel charge with a very large number of damaging elements. As a radar, use a helicopter-type tethered drone or a quadrocopter, powered by a cable, capable of hovering for days at an altitude of 200 meters. It will become possible to reach enemy drones by sea of ​​shrapnel for 30-40 km in range and up to 10 km in height, not taking into account the limited stock of Shell missiles. Torov and Bukov.
        1. Thrifty
          Thrifty 30 October 2020 07: 19
          +7
          Sergey32 - conclusions have already been made in the Ministry of Defense, they have already conducted several exercises where our military air defense worked on drones and barrage of ammunition, the role of which was played by light and small-sized target drones. Moreover, they create special light missiles against such targets!
          1. novel66
            novel66 30 October 2020 08: 09
            +6
            piston fighters (turboprop) IMHO, they will be good and inexpensive, machine guns, the main thing is more
            1. paul3390
              paul3390 30 October 2020 14: 36
              +5
              Why doesn't anyone make drones - drone fighters? Is it really more difficult than making the same drone drone? The goal seems to be relatively simple, slow-moving, does not maneuver?
            2. Denimax
              Denimax 30 October 2020 14: 49
              +1
              Alternatively, a two-seater gyroplane with a machine gun?
              1. Thunderbolt
                Thunderbolt 30 October 2020 16: 26
                +2
                Quote: Denimax
                Alternatively, a two-seater gyroplane with a machine gun?

                Autogyro over the battlefield is dangerous. Because the enemy can deploy echeloned air defense in the battle zone, the crown of which will be patrolling fighters covering the swarm /// or several units of larger drones ///. For them, watchmen /// or paragliders with snipers))) /// will be prey.
                P.S. But it seems to me that it is possible to create an acceptable means of defense for the tactical echelon.
                It should be combined. In the air, reconnaissance complexes identify the mobile headquarters of drones and merge their coordinates to artillerymen, missilemen and strike aircraft. Fighters intercept drones on distant approaches, and the tactical ground link must have equipment such as tank KAZs in its equipment. After all, that's the deal. We noticed that in all the combat episodes presented by the Azerbaijani side in these videos from Yu-tube, the following happens: seconds before the explosion, the personnel notices the ammunition directed at them and tries to hide. The electronics of such a KAZ can become “the last and very effective line of defense against“ goodies from the sky. ”This is not even touching on the means of active camouflage and much more.
                At the dawn of the 20th century, their Majesties' machine guns suddenly appeared on the scene of the Olympus of war, but now is the 21st century. And drone strikes are getting harder and angrier.
                1. Denimax
                  Denimax 31 October 2020 05: 39
                  0
                  A gyroplane can be viewed as a means in this situation, when there is nothing at hand, without a future perspective.
                  Control headquarters may not be easy to spot. They can be located in the basement of some five-story building, and communication is transmitted via a cable to the antenna, which in turn may not be nearby.
              2. gaudin
                gaudin 30 October 2020 17: 08
                +1
                Everything has long been invented before us, the Yugoslavs shot down American drones during the session, flew in from the side and fired at them with machine guns.
        2. NDR-791
          NDR-791 30 October 2020 07: 19
          +3
          It will be possible to reach enemy drones by sea of ​​shrapnel for 30-40 km in range and up to 10 km in height, not three of the limited stock of shells, Torov and Bukov missiles.
          The Armenians seemed to have anti-aircraft guns, they were even captured in a combat position. Only it is not very clear who they were shooting at. Guidance is not visible, possibly as anti-tank. And with your proposal, not everything is so simple ... If this works out, then it is not expensive, which means that the military-industrial complex does not attract. Who will hunchback for a small share?
        3. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 30 October 2020 07: 46
          +7
          Quote: sergey32
          It will be possible to reach enemy drones by sea of ​​shrapnel for 30-40 km in range and up to 10 km in height

          At such distances, given the density of dispersion, you need tons of metal per shot. And guns of this caliber are clumsy for drones. Helicopters from drones are also unlikely to save, rather they themselves will become targets
          1. sergey32
            sergey32 30 October 2020 07: 56
            +2
            Guns of this caliber were developed and produced in the 40-50s to combat first-generation jet aircraft. A cheap drone is quite tough for them. Give them normal target designation and fulfill their task. For poor countries like Armenia, it is quite normal. And LDNR, given that the Armed Forces of Ukraine is mastering Bayraktary, will also do.
            1. Stirbjorn
              Stirbjorn 30 October 2020 08: 39
              +1
              Quote: sergey32
              Guns of this caliber were developed and produced in the 40-50s to combat first-generation jet aircraft.

              To be honest, I do not know in detail directly about the fight against jet aircraft using large-caliber anti-aircraft guns. Throw off the source if you know. hi As far as I know, the targets of such weapons were strategic bombers and large, high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft. They were just non-reactive.

              PS I found, about Soviet large anti-aircraft guns, only the conclusion that their use is appropriate at altitudes above 3000 m, and drones fly below. So a large caliber is hardly useful here.
              https://topwar.ru/36652-poslevoennaya-sovetskaya-zenitnaya-artilleriya-chast-2-ya.html
              1. sergey32
                sergey32 30 October 2020 08: 55
                +1
                http://militaryarticle.ru/zemlya/artilleriya/19951-poslevoennaja-sovetskaja-zenitnaja-artillerija-2
                I searched what I found
          2. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 30 October 2020 09: 26
            +2
            Quote: Stirbjorn
            Quote: sergey32
            It will be possible to reach enemy drones by sea of ​​shrapnel for 30-40 km in range and up to 10 km in height

            At such distances, given the density of dispersion, you need tons of metal per shot. And guns of this caliber are clumsy for drones. Helicopters from drones are also unlikely to save, rather they themselves will become targets

            Helicopters - depending on which and what they are armed with and for which UAVs they work. Israelis filmed Iranian intelligence officer with Apache
            1. Niel-le-Calais
              Niel-le-Calais 30 October 2020 10: 26
              +1
              Quote: Krasnodar
              Helicopters - depending on which and what they are armed with and for which UAVs they work. Israelis filmed Iranian intelligence officer with Apache

              visually it is possible with mi 24 (video from the APU)

              but this is Orlan 10 (rather big device)
              and then, judging by the video, they tried to take it off for a long time.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 30 October 2020 10: 52
                0
                Apache has its own target detection and identification systems
                Pointing to the location came from the ground
                1. Niel-le-Calais
                  Niel-le-Calais 30 October 2020 10: 54
                  +1
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Apache has its own target detection and identification systems

                  I'm not sure about MI 24.
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Pointing to the location came from the ground

                  judging by the video is similar. For it is extremely difficult to find when patrolling.
                  And all this is rare. How many cases of drone shooting down by helicopters in the world ..
                  Much less than the SAM.
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 30 October 2020 11: 05
                    0
                    Quite right. There are even fewer jet fighters - in my memory only the interception of an artisanal UAV from Gaza by an Israeli F-15 - of the successful
                    1. Niel-le-Calais
                      Niel-le-Calais 30 October 2020 11: 27
                      0
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      Even fewer jet fighters

                      fighters to shoot down is even cooler.
                      More expensive for sure. Not a panacea helicopters with fighters for sure.
                      Although a helicopter with antidrones is an option. Actually, in any case, an antidron drone or a helicopter / other detection is always important. And this is the problem.
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 30 October 2020 11: 49
                        +1
                        Today the Israelis use Patriots on high flying drones, and helicopters on low flying ones. Detection - in a small area like the Israeli, there is an all-altitude, over-the-horizon radar
                        I don’t presume to advise other countries request
                      2. Gofman
                        Gofman 30 October 2020 18: 08
                        +1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        the Israelis use Patriots on high flying drones, and helicopters on low flying ones.

                        It is more suitable for border protection. than for a battlefield of the Karabakh type. Drones hunt ground vehicles, helicopters hunt drones. And the enemy's air defense (which was not in the Israeli case) was behind those helicopters. I think the helicopters will end first.
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 30 October 2020 18: 22
                        0
                        Rather, the Israelis will demolish the enemy's air defense, incl. with their drones at the very beginning of the conflict hi A bunch of UAV-ground-based missiles / artillery, AWACS and aviation is an Israeli development of the early 80s, worked out by the Syrian air defense systems in Lebanon in 1982. Now, unmanned AWACS, kamikaze drones and shock drones have been added to this. ))
                      4. Gofman
                        Gofman 30 October 2020 18: 32
                        -1
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        the Israelis will demolish the enemy's air defenses, incl. with their drones at the very beginning of the conflict A bunch of UAV-ground-based missiles / artillery / AWACS aviation is an Israeli development of the early 80s, worked out by the Syrian air defense systems in Lebanon in 1982.
                        Frets. And the enemy drones in the same beginning will similarly demolish the air defense of Israel (the Syrians did not have drones then?). And then helicopters on both sides will take out the drones without opposition. Then everything fits together.
                        Although, again, on the battlefield, even with a killed air defense, such a hunter-helicopter is vulnerable to a fighter with MANPADS, which was not there if Israel was guarding its border.
                      5. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 30 October 2020 18: 51
                        0
                        Israel has a clear algorithm for working on enemy air defense - drones, AWACS, combat aircraft, ground artillery. The Syrians had fighters with MANPADS, and in large numbers)). There was no UAV.
                        Enemy helicopters are for aviation. Ours are against drones.
                        This is theory - in practice - god knows how it will be laughing
                      6. Gofman
                        Gofman 30 October 2020 19: 02
                        0
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        The Syrians had fighters with MANPADS, and in large numbers)).

                        But there were no drones. You pull sentences out of context: either the enemy has only drones, then only air defense. I am explaining to you that when your enemy has both drones and air defense covering them in the complex, he will carry out your helicopter-hunter-for-drones (and at the same time the aircraft-hunter-for-his-helicopters), while his drones will take out your air defense. Mutually, in general, so helicopters are so-so protection from drones in real combat. The war will show.
                        PS But in general you are pioneers in this area, of course, so no offense.
                      7. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 30 October 2020 19: 18
                        +1
                        Yes, what grievances, in theory, everything is considered laughing
                        Once again, an attack on the Israelis, drones go ahead. Air defense works on them, helicopters rise.
                        Helicopters begin to take out the air defenses of the Syrians / Persians, the Israelis raise their drones on the air defenses, repair the affected runways, and attack enemy airfields and air defense systems with all kinds of missiles. Air Defense of the IRGC / SAA begins to engage in Jewish UAVs, Israeli combat aircraft rises into the air. Arab / Persian drones take out Jews' air defenses, Heil Avir finishes off air defenses and everything that flies from the Syrians.
                        And then - FIG knows. Depends on what will remain with the Israelis, that the enemy)))
                        Fights are possible ala the first world - UAVs will try to take out each other, go to ram))))
  • Konnick
    Konnick 30 October 2020 09: 49
    +4
    You're right. Anti-aircraft artillery mainly used massive barrage fire.
  • Alexander Kopychev
    Alexander Kopychev 30 October 2020 10: 19
    0
    Based on the results of this war, conclusions will be drawn about the need to saturate the troops with means of combating numerous drones.
    I dare to offer my purely civilian IMHO. Means of struggle should be relatively cheap and they should be enough to repel multiple means of attack (a flock of kamikaze drones, for example).

    My IMHO - the problem needs to be solved radically, probably such a solution is being worked out: the detection and destruction of command posts, and of electronic warfare ...
  • 2 Level Advisor
    2 Level Advisor 30 October 2020 08: 52
    +3
    the Armenian army has both TOP and Buk .. and in Karabakh I think they are not, because the Armenian army does not officially fight there .. so that officially the country that sent troops to another country does not become .. After all, they did not recognize Karabakh, that is ... legally, Armenia also considers it Azerbaijan ..
  • Old tanker
    Old tanker 30 October 2020 06: 32
    +2
    Or an urgent evacuation.
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 30 October 2020 07: 15
    +6
    Yeah, Pashinyan is already demanding the entry of our troops into Karabakh, under the auspices of the peacekeeping mission! negative Why doesn't saros or soras help in any way? ?? Decided to hide behind the backs of Russian soldiers! !! negative fool
  • withoutreverse
    withoutreverse 30 October 2020 07: 20
    16
    Azera demonstrate their jewelry work ... on the battlefield. so to speak the war of tomorrow. what the Armenians were not ready for.
  • Greenwood
    Greenwood 30 October 2020 06: 04
    20
    Beating up babies, no more, no less.
  • Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 30 October 2020 06: 05
    11
    Actual control of the airspace in the conflict zone in Karabakh ensures success for the Azerbaijani troops on the ground.

    It will be strange if the restless Bandera members do not use such an approach in Donbass ...
    1. Old tanker
      Old tanker 30 October 2020 06: 36
      +5
      Ukraine is not Azerbaijan, a poor country. Although they buy drones from the Turks, they are still in scanty quantities. But they will take this experience into account unambiguously. So Voentorg needs to work intensively in this regard.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 30 October 2020 09: 09
        +8
        Just like Greece, I repeat. Beggar in line for a loan. But he buys weapons, not always for money, but they sell them. All the more so against Russia.

        Under the program for the development of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, 6-12 additional Bayraktar TB2 complexes will be purchased (that is, 6-12 control stations and 3-4 drones for each complex).

        "So, Ukraine plans to receive 48 drones, which the Ministry of Defense plans to put into service in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, "the official said.
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 31 October 2020 02: 33
          +3
          We'll either have to "give birth" to air defense in the LPNR, or run headlong. You can't hide in the "hole".
  • Nychego
    Nychego 30 October 2020 06: 06
    +9
    Success on the ground of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces is ensured by the actual control of the airspace in Karabakh

    Hardly anyone had doubts about this.
    And in general, in wars for more than 80 years, the rule "whose air, that is the earth" has been working, especially if there is not a lot of greenery on the ground.
    1. Ganja
      Ganja 30 October 2020 06: 40
      +6
      and you are a noble in Karabakh there were very dense forests, which were cut down by the occupation authorities, apparently thought sooner or later the owner of the land would demand it back the best is now chopping and selling and making loot
  • Konnick
    Konnick 30 October 2020 06: 12
    13
    Whoever takes possession of the air will take possession of the land ... The history of wars with the use of aviation shows that with each new conflict, the conquest of air supremacy ensures victory on the ground becomes more important and more important. Remember the defeat of Tukhachevsky, Tukhachevsky himself made excuses, like the First Horse did not follow the order ... historians are developing their complex schemes, and the answer is simply Aviation. The First Cavalry near Lvov faced heavy cavalry losses from machine-gun fire from aircraft. Moreover, the planes were new, with experienced French and American pilots ... All movements of the troops of Tukhachevsky and Yegorov were controlled by Polish aviation. All tactical moves were quickly revealed. The cavalry, the main striking force at the time, especially suffered from air strikes. And the main reason for the catastrophe on the Vistula is the domination of Polish aviation. Pilsudski clearly knew both the location of our units and the number of troops, he had to make the right decisions and block the movement of Tukhachevsky's troops by the Entente aircraft. But in the memoirs of commanders you will not find recognition of the equal role of aviation with ground forces.
    Ordinarily, you come across ... plywood, but how it fights.
    1. Alex Justice
      Alex Justice 30 October 2020 10: 29
      0
      Interesting information. I've never heard that.
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 30 October 2020 10: 54
        +2
        And from whom can you hear this? Stalin felt the power of aviation in these battles with the White Poles and then, being the leader of the country, nurtured aviation, pampered the aviation elite. Even the uniforms of the pilots were the most beautiful, in the movie "Fighters", Mark Bernes sings the song 'Comrade flies to a distant land ... "A white shirt, a jacket with turn-down lapels, with a bunch of gold chevrons on the sleeves ... Young people watched and. .. only a pilot, all my girls. A subtle psychological trick. As a result, we did not face a strong shortage of flight personnel, unlike Japan at the beginning of the war and Germany at the end of the war.
    2. Niel-le-Calais
      Niel-le-Calais 30 October 2020 10: 34
      +1
      Quote: Konnick
      The cavalry, the main striking force at the time, especially suffered from air strikes. And the reason for the main disaster on the Vistula is the domination of Polish aviation.

      nonsense of course to attack with cavalry in aviation. Indeed, quite recently, they also defeated the Austro-Hungarian cavalry using aviation at the Republic of Ingushetia. And here the machine guns are better, the speed and range are better.
      And the Soviets themselves also destroyed the White Guard cavalry units.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 30 October 2020 06: 12
    +9
    Based on the filmed videos, Azerbaijan can already make a whole film .. smile
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 30 October 2020 06: 14
    14
    Well, you can't get away from the facts. In the NKR they were preparing for battles according to the tactics of previous years, but they received a surprise (and was it not?) From the air. But the information about the acquisition of UAVs by Azerbaijan from Turkey and Israel was even in open sources, but obviously they did not attach any importance to this and strenuously buried in anticipation of head-on attacks.
    1. Old tanker
      Old tanker 30 October 2020 06: 39
      +8
      Yes, something for 25 years bad they dug.
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 30 October 2020 09: 09
        +8
        Buried all over science. We've been digging in one place for 25 years. They were preparing for the trench warfare of the early 20th century. And here, without military science, but using technology from the early 21st century. "Listen ... we didn't agree so .."
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 30 October 2020 09: 12
      +4
      Not only was there information. Not only was there someone else's experience (Libya, Syria, Iraq). But they themselves had been tapped quite hard a couple of years before. Where Spikes, Haropes, Arta and MLRS were used through the Orbiters.
  • raki-uzo
    raki-uzo 30 October 2020 06: 20
    +7
    The fault is the Armenians who do not live in Armenia. Because of them, the voi will rise up about the alleged genocide and therefore Turkey does not open the border. Because of them, they do not leave Karabagh, they say, we will organize a facility for you to protect their supposedly native land - they raise their spirits. Because of them, the people are poor and they are in France, in the United States in other countries, they send different letters, arrange rallies. And the bandy people hope that the "magic stick" will work. Put up couple. The couple liberate Karabag. To put up with Turkey. The border will open, opportunities will appear - different flows, development in the energy sector, tourism, trade. One way or another, the Armenians and I lived for a very long time and amicably. During the Ottoman Empire they were called Milleti Sadika / Faithful People.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 30 October 2020 06: 23
    -2
    I dare express my cautious doubts. It seems that everything has already been crushed and destroyed in the NCO, and the front has "stood up" ...
    Apparently, the war cannot be won with chilling pictures from the Internet ... Azerbaijan has not had hundreds of UAVs, as many have already lost. The intensity of their actions has obviously dropped. That is why more and more often artillery and fire adjustment - and this is a completely different efficiency. Again - the foothills. He himself believed that after the pogrom of the first weeks, the NGO was lost for the Armenians. But time passes, the losses of the sides are growing, and the Lachin corridor is not blocked. So the war continues ...
    1. Ganja
      Ganja 30 October 2020 06: 49
      12
      and why risk an expensive drone for the sake of, say, GAZ-53 or even Kamaz, when there is barrel artillery, the target is known, the supply road, you only need an observer (not even a spotter) and say "Fire" A shell for $ 800 and a Kamaz for 20 pieces pouf
      1. novel66
        novel66 30 October 2020 08: 17
        0
        one projectile does not hit, unless by accident, there is such a thing as the probability of hitting
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 30 October 2020 11: 28
          +2
          But the fragments from the shells will fall and they pierce the armor.
          1. novel66
            novel66 30 October 2020 12: 59
            +1
            What kind of BOPS is this?
  • Konnick
    Konnick 30 October 2020 06: 29
    13
    Look at what fortification they built, what beautiful gun yards ... which, however, stand out very sharply in the terrain with their regular outlines, still, they were digging along the clear markings ... generals came, made comments, like straighten the parapet, but here you sweep it .. . Swept up.
    1. novel66
      novel66 30 October 2020 08: 17
      +4
      and pull out the grass
    2. Archivist Vasya
      Archivist Vasya 30 October 2020 09: 59
      +6
      By the way, yes, I also noticed how everything right and beautiful equipped, for the 20th century - a direct role model. Our generals would love it. It's a shame that all this was in vain.
      1. novel66
        novel66 30 October 2020 13: 00
        +1
        not in vain - it's easier to aim
  • Vitas
    Vitas 30 October 2020 06: 30
    +5
    This comrade has good reviews, you will not regret it!
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 30 October 2020 07: 00
      +1
      Quote: Vitas
      This comrade has good reviews, you will not regret it!

      Suddenly ... That's it! We are waiting for confirmation.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 30 October 2020 07: 08
    0
    The evacuation from Armenia has already begun, while I was driving a minibus to work, I saw a couple of coolest cars with numbers from Armenia, obviously young people were evacuated from mobilization.
    1. MTN
      MTN 30 October 2020 08: 12
      +3
      Quote: tralflot1832
      The evacuation from Armenia has already begun, while I was driving a minibus to work, I saw a couple of coolest cars with numbers from Armenia, obviously young people were evacuated from mobilization.

      parents see the video from the Azerbaijani side and do not want to let the children go to slaughter.
      1. Vsepomni
        Vsepomni 30 October 2020 16: 50
        +1
        Well, right. Life is more important
  • Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 30 October 2020 07: 52
    +5
    Harutunyan, yesterday I called on Facebook to the general defense of Shushi. And this is already in the depths of the NKR. Things are really bad
  • Qwertyarion
    Qwertyarion 30 October 2020 08: 01
    +3
    Without air defense systems, it's like shooting at a shooting range. Unrequited beating ...
  • neocortex
    neocortex 30 October 2020 08: 07
    +8
    So much for the "arms race", either you outstrip your main opponent, or you lose. From the "heroic spirit", etc. - there is no longer any use on the battlefield
  • Livonetc
    Livonetc 30 October 2020 08: 12
    +3
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    I dare express my cautious doubts. It seems that everything has already been crushed and destroyed in the NCO, and the front has "stood up" ...
    Apparently, the war cannot be won with chilling pictures from the Internet ... Azerbaijan has not had hundreds of UAVs, as many have already lost. The intensity of their actions has obviously dropped. That is why more and more often artillery and fire adjustment - and this is a completely different efficiency. Again - the foothills. He himself believed that after the pogrom of the first weeks, the NGO was lost for the Armenians. But time passes, the losses of the sides are growing, and the Lachin corridor is not blocked. So the war continues ...

    The war will definitely continue for a long time.
    And the demonstration lesson will continue
    By the way.
    Air superiority, photo reconnaissance and pinpoint strikes were demonstrated back in World War II.
    The Germans used "frames" for photographic reconnaissance.
    Dive bombers for inflicting point strikes.
    Guided loitering bombs.
    Cruise missiles.
    At the moment, there has been a minimization and automation of shock and reconnaissance means.
    And if the unmanned small and medium-sized vehicles themselves began to develop already zhavno, then the means of their destruction and neutralization developed sluggishly.
    The current conflict gave a powerful impetus for the development of such systems in a complex.
    1. Niel-le-Calais
      Niel-le-Calais 30 October 2020 10: 37
      0
      Quote: Livonetc
      Air superiority, photographic reconnaissance and pinpoint strikes were demonstrated back in World War II.

      Before WWII, aviation declared itself at the top of its voice, and in WWI it was fully formed.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 30 October 2020 08: 13
    +4
    It's not entirely clear to me ... why, having an air force, it is impossible to ensure the fall of drones over the NKR? Explosive missiles are missing from the territory of Armenia?
    1. Livonetc
      Livonetc 30 October 2020 08: 15
      +7
      It seems that this is from the same topic as the non-recognition of the NKR by Armenia.
    2. Garm
      Garm 30 October 2020 08: 31
      +8
      Oddly enough, but Armenia does not fight (officially), the NKR unrecognized (even by Armenia) is fighting, and accordingly, the aviation that I have at the disposal of Armenia is not used.
      1. neocortex
        neocortex 30 October 2020 08: 43
        +1
        Here, by the way, it is far from a fact who is howling officially and who is not, since all contacts take place at the level of departments of Armenia and Azerbaijan, incl. signing of the next "peace"
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 30 October 2020 09: 06
        +2
        You can shoot from your own airspace, you can only work against Bayraktars, without striking the "ground" ...... The Turks perfectly "pinch" Syrian aircraft and our Su24M from their airspace
    3. donavi49
      donavi49 30 October 2020 09: 18
      +4
      1) Discovery. Finding a loitering UAV, even in the mountains, is an extremely difficult task.
      2) Capture. Yes, and shoot at contacts like that. You can stick it in large. We'll have to do visual confirmation.
      3) The risk of getting a reply. Azerbaijan can pull up Buki-MB and work from the site along Sushka. Moreover, this is a typical goal. Or even cover the area with the S-300PMU1 battery.

      However, detection is the main problem. Even the NKR region is large. You can cut circles there until you run out of fuel and not find anyone. And while still catching a rocket. In general, the risks are big.
    4. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 30 October 2020 09: 30
      -2
      Quote: Zaurbek
      why, having an air force, it is impossible to ensure the fall of drones over the NKR?

      Armenian Su-30s will easily destroy Azerbaijani MiG-29s. Cars of a completely different class. Migi 9-13 purchased from Ukraine are irrevocably outdated.
      But here is the factor of Turkey. Even during takeoff, the Su-30 will be escorted by the Turkish "Avax", data on the Armenian aircraft go directly to the F16 avionics and its missiles. That gives guaranteed destruction of dryers. This is a sniper versus a blind man.
      This will not be allowed by Armenia, not Russia. Therefore, the Su-30 is at the airfields.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 30 October 2020 11: 31
        +1
        Apparently, the training of pilots from the Armenians is the same as that of the Su 30 ground crews, they will not be helped, especially since the Azerbaijani Armed Forces must have put up air defense in their positions.
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 30 October 2020 11: 35
          -1
          I'm sure that our pilots are on the Su-30.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 30 October 2020 15: 42
            0
            And the four Russian pilots will fight for the NKR, four of them against 14 MiG-29s with an unknown (possibly Israeli) minced meat, from a distance where they can be seen without Avaks by the Azerbaijani S-300 radar? ))
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 30 October 2020 16: 15
              +2
              Of course, only to fight in the world of tanks at the base.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 30 October 2020 17: 05
                0
                Here I am about the same))
      2. Alexander Seklitsky
        Alexander Seklitsky 30 October 2020 17: 59
        0
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        This is a sniper versus a blind man.
        and that the drying radar does not have something? like irradiation with avax, he will not see aha
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 31 October 2020 19: 54
          0
          He may not see a mid-range missile launch from an F16. From the ultimate range ..... induced with AWACS. Which will shine and direct ...
  • soldat-tv
    soldat-tv 30 October 2020 08: 20
    +6
    Now a critical moment is coming for Armenians. Even bl .. put mesh barriers, such as chain-link up to 6m high. The infantry in the trenches really sucks.
  • Mr.dimadroll
    Mr.dimadroll 30 October 2020 09: 37
    +3
    In vain are the boys being ruined.
  • Azimuth
    Azimuth 30 October 2020 09: 49
    +1
    Everything is fine, everything is interesting, the war of a new generation and blah blah, the result is obvious, however ...
    very, very few personnel of the work of cannon and rocket artillery with the adjustment of UAV fire. Some shots of the Armenian trenches show that it was the artillery that was working, and the "cartoons" are given mainly only for loitering ammunition and from Bayraktar, only once it seemed like they showed the covering of the advancing infantry.
    who thinks why? An ideological feint associated with intimidation and demoralization of the enemy, or?
    1. Niel-le-Calais
      Niel-le-Calais 30 October 2020 10: 40
      0
      Quote: Azimuth
      An ideological feint associated with intimidation and demoralization of the enemy, or?

      advertising campaign of manufacturing companies.
      However, the video of the operation of the receiver + UAV was bored even in previous conflicts.
      They work pretty well though.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 30 October 2020 09: 51
    +2
    Are you surprised by the number of tires on the positions of the Karabakh Armed Forces, does the construction of fortifications come from garbage? But the Armenians had time for that.
    1. KARAKURT777
      KARAKURT777 30 October 2020 10: 28
      +5
      Tires on both sides. Convenient, economical, sociable. You put it where you need it and cover it with sand.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 30 October 2020 11: 41
        0
        Quote: KARAKURT777
        Tires on both sides. Convenient, economical, sociable. You put it where you need it and cover it with sand.

        1 Practically does not give out the position of the fighter,
        2 Does not guarantee anything to the fighter (after all, this is a tire, intended for completely different purposes)
        3 Cheap and cheerful, for 30 years of land use, no defensive structures were built or they thought that Azerbaijan would forgive ............
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 30 October 2020 15: 43
      0
      And what's wrong with tires filled with sand?
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 30 October 2020 15: 46
        +1
        Quote: Krasnodar
        And what's wrong with tires filled with sand?

        Write again?
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 30 October 2020 15: 59
          +1
          1) Gives out the position of the fighter - like, will they start pounding immediately on the tires from the barrel artillery? ))
          2) A bullet sticks in it better than in a sandbag. It is also filled with sand
          3) But I agree with this - they stupidly sawed the diaspora's loot and didn't do it
          By the way, I thought that the Armenians on the plain had nothing at all, only concretes, minefields and anti-tank ditches. And in the mountains there is a whole complex of tunnels, pillboxes in the rocks, shelters for equipment with camouflaged firing areas and a bunch of all kinds of imitation of radar activity for air defense.
          As a result - some kind of sharazhea ala UNIT's defense line, built against the government forces of Luanda
  • Lesorub
    Lesorub 30 October 2020 10: 01
    +4
    The NKR is in a situation where the ground forces are practically devoid of not only air support, but also are not provided with means of suppressing the activity of drones

    The consequences of the disdainful attitude of Armenians to the modernization of the army and air defense systems in particular - ignoring information about new enemy weapons systems, can be continued further - which leads to such sad defeats of the Armenians. (The situation with drones at the moment - "who did not hide the UAV is not to blame).
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 30 October 2020 11: 35
      +2
      And also corruption and theft in the troops and the upper echelons of power.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 30 October 2020 10: 01
    +5
    As the Azerbaijani, and maybe not only, the military thought of everything and the manned aviation was not required. At the beginning, An-2 was launched in an unmanned version, enemy air defenses were shot down, they reported about downed dryers and phantoms. We spent the ammunition of expensive anti-aircraft missiles, opened the air defense system. Then the positions of the air defense missile system were attacked by shock drones. Thus, having destroyed the NKR air defense, with the help of reconnaissance drones, they directed long-range artillery and shock drones at the detected land defense targets and armored vehicles, "carefully" hidden in beautifully designed caponiers. Used the "long arm" tactic. Having destroyed the firing points, they simply squeezed out the territory from the disarmed, psychologically suppressed, Armenian infantry.
  • Archivist Vasya
    Archivist Vasya 30 October 2020 10: 03
    +4
    First-class arrangement of trenches - clear, beautiful and ... not effective, alas. However, the Azerbaijani military is already hitting almost single targets! Independent Karabakh will not have such a pace for long.
    1. Alexander Seklitsky
      Alexander Seklitsky 30 October 2020 18: 14
      0
      What about storming cities? There you can't fight with drones. Stalingrad was bombed with such power that cannot be compared with the current conflict. And they could not take the city. And this despite the fact that no one took into account the loss of the peaceful population. Now this will not work.
  • KARAKURT777
    KARAKURT777 30 October 2020 10: 15
    +4
    Quote: rotmistr60
    The NKR prepared for battles according to the tactics of previous years, but received a surprise

    They got a surprise in the sense that they hoped that Russia would stick in for them, which they hayat, hayat and will hait.
  • KARAKURT777
    KARAKURT777 30 October 2020 10: 26
    +3
    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    Even during takeoff, the Su-30 will be escorted by the Turkish "Avax"

    Is it okay that Azerbaijan has 4 satellites in orbit? And where does such confidence come from about the forces and means of the Azerbaijani air defense and air forces? Pakistanis like the Su-30 knocked out their (considered antediluvian) JF-17.
  • Azimuth
    Azimuth 30 October 2020 10: 29
    +3
    Quote: sergey32
    Based on the results of this war, conclusions will be drawn about the need to saturate the troops with means of combating numerous drones.
    I dare to offer my purely civilian IMHO. Means of struggle should be relatively cheap and they should be enough to repel multiple means of attack (a flock of kamikaze drones, for example).
    On the march, the military column, the KVM, should be covered by helicopters. At positions, in addition to the existing air defense, it was possible to reactivate large-caliber anti-aircraft guns (100-130 mm) from storage. Develop a shrapnel charge with a very large number of damaging elements. As a radar, use a helicopter-type tethered drone or a quadrocopter, powered by a cable, capable of hovering for days at an altitude of 200 meters. It will become possible to reach enemy drones by sea of ​​shrapnel for 30-40 km in range and up to 10 km in height, not taking into account the limited stock of Shell missiles. Torov and Bukov.


    We can create a similar system in the 57mm caliber.

    But also on an inexpensive wheeled chassis, for example, we already have a Ural developed for 120mm ACS Phlox:

    An optoelectronic locator with a laser rangefinder and projectiles with a programmable fuse, we also have that. Two types of projectiles and double power supply for the gun, since it can fight not only with UAVs, which do not need a large fragment of a large mass, but on the contrary, it is more desirable, with an equal mass of a projectile, to have a larger number of fragments to increase the likelihood of defeat, but on the other hand, the weapon is able to fight with targets like a helicopter, light attack aircraft.

    It is quite possible that if our military-industrial complex gets scratched, we will see something similar following the results of this war.
    1. CastroRuiz
      CastroRuiz 30 October 2020 16: 13
      0
      Privet.
      Dumayu, shto uzhe reshili i zapustili.
      "Derivacia PVO" s 57 mm pushkou.
  • KARAKURT777
    KARAKURT777 30 October 2020 10: 31
    +3
    The Turks have announced the BAYRAKTAR TB-3.
  • Azimuth
    Azimuth 30 October 2020 10: 40
    -1
    Quote: KARAKURT777
    The Turks have announced the BAYRAKTAR TB-3.

    Apparently a localized version of TV-3.
  • Homeland
    Homeland 30 October 2020 12: 20
    +1
    The funny thing is that the Armenians still do not admit their defeat on the battlefield. And they call it "tactical retreat". smile
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 30 October 2020 15: 46
      +1
      What can I tell them? The war is over, thank you all?
  • Homeland
    Homeland 30 October 2020 12: 23
    +5
    Azerbaijan has long been producing and successfully using the Zerbe (Strike) strike UAVs. But for some reason, all discussions and comments are only around Israeli and Turkish drones. The network is constantly underestimating the Azerbaijani soldier and weapons.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 30 October 2020 15: 47
      0
      Zerbe is produced under an Israeli license
  • Nest
    Nest 30 October 2020 14: 21
    +2
    In most posts against modern drones, they suggest using either various kinds of air defense systems or aviation or other interceptor drones. It was also proposed to take the direction finding of the control center of the drone and destroy it, which is either extremely expensive or ineffective. Let me give you an alternative point of view (as an idea for solving the problem). Judging by the publications on the Web, a compact VSat terminal is used in Bayraktar to transmit video and control channels. If you interrupt the video from the device to the control point, then target designation and the use of ammunition of the drone itself will be impossible (an obvious fact), since he does not work on goals on his own. Most likely, the device will return to the base in automatic mode. Now, if you google how VSat works, it becomes clear that they transmit a signal through one of the geostationary satellites of the Intelsat system. Moreover (since the video goes continuously), the uplink signal containing the video is also continuous. The drone's antenna is compact and its directional pattern is quite wide. Option 1: It is enough to be ABOVE the drone (there are many options, ranging from a geodesic ball to a high-altitude drone). Next, we find the radiation frequency (repeater in the satellite) that the drone uses on the uplink. Repeater bandwidth 25-50 MHz (typical). Next, we turn on the interference towards the satellite at this frequency, using a powerful signal generator (there are many of them for such a narrow band). And the operator will lose, at least, the video from the drone, and as a maximum, also the responses to control commands. Option 2: Slightly more difficult and not entirely point-to-point (since all VSat terminals in the sector will turn off): Turn on powerful interference on the Down line in the direction of the drone at the frequency of the VSat terminal control channel (this channel is one for all stations in the beam area). The drone terminal is guaranteed to lose contact with the operator. Such equipment is quite affordable and costs two orders of magnitude cheaper than even one air defense missile. And most importantly - no consumables other than energy. And you can block the whole flock of drones (not autonomous, of course) in seconds. I want to add that there is a variant of satellite terminals where the Iridium network is used (and these are not geostationary satellites, but low-flying satellites), here it is somewhat more difficult, since it is necessary to monitor the position of all Iridium satellites in the zone and the antenna that forms the interference must accompany the satellite in order to the suppression signal strength did not drop. But there are also many options here and all are affordable. Now the bottom line. Anything above can be done by any advanced satellite communications enthusiast. And if you use government opportunities, it is even easier - any country has access to Iridium ephemeris data and control channel data. It's just that manufacturers of air defense systems, tanks, etc. very nice lobby as all this must be sold at a high price and made a profit. Nobody needs cheap solutions, and especially without expensive "consumables".
  • Alexey from Perm
    Alexey from Perm 30 October 2020 15: 18
    +2
    We realized this long ago, the main thing is that high ranks in the Ministry of Defense creak their brains and draw conclusions
  • certero
    certero 30 October 2020 16: 02
    +1
    No patriotism, heroism and other ism will not help against that before reasoning about how the Russian Ministry of Defense should react, the best air defense means are our tanks on enemy airfields.
    The drone control center is a thing that emits radio frequency for hundreds of kilometers. So they should be destroyed first.
  • Cirkon
    Cirkon 30 October 2020 16: 05
    -1
    Azerbaijan has good information support, wherever you look, everywhere their videos .. But this is only the outer shell. Aliyev will have serious problems, Erdogan will frame him soon.
    Armenia is a small but very tricky country .. laughing Russia is silent and concentrates. wink
    1. Rubina
      Rubina 30 October 2020 17: 04
      +2
      Perhaps, but there will also be problems in Krasnodar and Sochi, where crowds of angry Armenians from Armenia will appear, especially from the top with money. And Erdogan will not substitute Aliyev - we are welded together by pipeline and gas pipeline.
    2. andreykolesov123
      andreykolesov123 30 October 2020 20: 43
      +1
      Quote: Cirkon
      Armenia is a small but very tricky country ..

      Usually a small but cunning country is called a completely different country.
  • Ganja
    Ganja 30 October 2020 20: 19
    +2
    The most amazing thing in this story after the routings, rubbing, blockades, censure of neighbors and finally the 4th resolution of the UN Security Council, not a single Armenian comes to mind that in Soviet times this issue has already found its solution to the NKAO as part of the Azerbaijan SSR. If I say this is pride, then I do not agree, because we are all witnesses that the Armenians are now walking around the world and begging them to save, it turns out they are not proud. It turns out a very strange picture, the world does not want to agree with ethnic cleansing and occupation under the pretext of the right of the people to the very definition, if we take into account the fact that in many countries Armenians living comactly, having received a precedent, will also self-determine, for example, in California or somewhere near Marseilles, at worst end in Krasnodar or Stavrapol
  • Azimuth
    Azimuth 30 October 2020 20: 19
    +1
    Quote: CastroRuiz
    Privet.
    Dumayu, shto uzhe reshili i zapustili.
    "Derivacia PVO" s 57 mm pushkou.

    She's in my video post. But a tracked chassis is already expensive. The UAV is still relatively not that expensive, and it must also be destroyed effectively from an economic point of view. The wheeled chassis will be cheaper.
  • Azimuth
    Azimuth 30 October 2020 20: 21
    -1
    Quote: Rubina
    Perhaps, but there will also be problems in Krasnodar and Sochi, where crowds of angry Armenians from Armenia will appear, especially from the top with money. And Erdogan will not substitute Aliyev - we are welded together by pipeline and gas pipeline.

    They have been there for a long time, even from Pashinyan they started to run away and invested money ahead of time - Krasnodar and Stavropol Territories, Western Ukraine.
  • Lexus
    Lexus 31 October 2020 02: 35
    +3
    I know what war is. Units that have experienced this on themselves have zero morale.