How the mediocre Italian blitzkrieg failed in Greece

83
How the mediocre Italian blitzkrieg failed in Greece

Greek gunners fire in the mountains from the mountain version of the 65-mm gun during the war with Italy

80 years ago, Italy attacked Greece. World War II came to the Balkans. The Greeks defeated the Italians. Hitler had to intervene to support Mussolini.

Preparing for aggression


Using the successes of Nazi Germany, the Italian leadership stepped up the implementation of their plans to create a "Great Italy". In July-August 1940, Italian troops attacked the British in East Africa and captured parts of the territory, Kenya, Sudan and British Somalia. However, the Italians were unable to pose a serious threat to British interests in East Africa. In September 1940, the Italian army from Libya invaded Egypt to reach the Suez Canal. The Italians advanced somewhat, taking advantage of the weakness of the British in this direction, but soon their offensive died out. That is, the Italians did not achieve their goals in East and North Africa (How Mussolini Created the "Great Roman Empire"; Italian invasion of Somalia and Egypt).



Another strategic direction for Italy was the Balkans. Rome claimed the western part of the Balkan Peninsula. In 1939, Italy occupied Albania, gaining a strategic foothold in the Balkans (How Italy occupied Albania). In October 1940, German troops entered Romania, gaining bases in the Balkans. Hitler did not warn his Italian ally about this. This became an excuse for Mussolini to "take the initiative." On October 15, at the Council of War in Rome, it was decided to invade Greece. At the first stage of the operation, the Italians were to strike at Ioannina from Albanian territory, break through the enemy's defenses and then develop an offensive with a mobile group and capture the northwestern region of Greece - Epirus. After that, go to Athens and Thessaloniki. At the same time, a landing operation was planned to capture about. Corfu. The Italian Air Force supported the offensive of the ground forces and were supposed to paralyze Greek communications with their blows, cause panic in the country and disrupt mobilization measures. It was hoped in Rome that the war would cause an internal crisis in Greece, leading to a quick victory with little blood.


Italian fighter Fiat G. 50 bis MM in Greece

The forces of the parties


For the capture of Greece, two army corps were allocated: 8 divisions (6 infantry, 1 mountain and 1 tank divisions), a separate operational group (3 regiments). A total of 87 thousand people, 163 tanks, 686 guns, 380 aircraft. 54 large surface ships (4 battleships, 8 cruisers, 42 destroyers and destroyers), 34 submarines were involved to support the offensive from the sea, the landing of assault forces and supplies. The Italian fleet was based in Taranto, the Adriatic Sea and on the island of Leros.

The main blow was delivered by the forces of the 25th corps (4 divisions, including the 131st Panzer Division "Centaur") and the operational group in the coastal strip in the direction of Yanina and Metsovon. The 26th corps (4 divisions) was deployed for active defense on the left flank. One division from the territory of Italy was involved in the operation in Corfu. General Sebastiano Visconti Praska was the commander of the Italian troops in Albania (Army Group Albania) and the commander of the 26th corps stationed here.

The Greek forces in Epirus and Macedonia numbered 120. In the course of mobilization, Athens planned to deploy 15 infantry and 1 cavalry divisions, 4 infantry brigades and a reserve of the main command. The Greek fleet (1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 17 destroyers and torpedo boats, 6 submarines) was weak and could not cover the coast. The Air Force numbered about 150 aircraft. In case of war, the General Staff planned to cover the border with Albania and Bulgaria. The Greek covering forces, which were stationed on the Albanian border, had 2 infantry divisions, 2 infantry brigades, 13 separate battalions and 6 mountain batteries. These troops counted 27 thousand soldiers, 20 tanks, over 200 guns and 36 aircraft.


Failure of the Italian Blitzkrieg


On the eve of the invasion, Rome gave an ultimatum to Athens: permission to deploy Italian troops at important facilities (ports, airfields, communications centers, etc.). Otherwise, Greece was threatened with war. The Greeks refused - the so-called. Okhi Day (Greek "No"). On October 28, 1940, Italian troops invaded Greece. In the early days, they met almost no resistance. The weak barriers of the Greek border guards were withdrawing. With a great superiority in forces, the Italians advanced to the Tiamis River. But then the covering troops entered the battle, reinforced by 5 infantry and 1 cavalry divisions. They gave battle to the invaders.

Noticing that the enemy was weaker than expected, on November 1, 1940, the Greek commander-in-chief Alexandros Papagos gave the order to launch a counteroffensive. The Greeks delivered the main blow to the enemy's left flank. As a result of two days of fighting, Italian troops in the Kochi region were defeated and were driven back to Albania. The pressure on Italians in Epirus, in the valleys of the Viosa and Kalamas rivers, also increased. The initiative goes to the Greek army. The failure of the Italian offensive was caused by the underestimation of the enemy. The Italian leadership believed that the invasion would cause the collapse of the enemy camp, the resistance would collapse. The opposite happened. The Greek army was greatly strengthened. Her fighting spirit was high, she enjoyed the full support of the people. The Greeks fought for their freedom, honor and independence.

The Italian attack on Greece forced England to pay attention to the Balkans. London in 1939 promised help to Athens. The British have long wanted to gain a foothold in the Balkan Peninsula. However, at first, the British government believed that the Middle East was more important than the Balkans, so it was in no hurry to actively help the Greeks. London rejected a request from the Greek government to send a fleet and Aviation to protect Athens and Corfu. British assistance was limited to sending 4 air squadrons. On November 1, the British occupied Crete, strengthening their position in the eastern Mediterranean.


Greek soldiers resting in the mountains during the war with Italy in the winter of 1940-1941.


Greek soldiers in battle in the mountains during the war with Italy

The Italians did not succeed in an easy walk. The Italian High Command had to urgently change plans, replenish and reorganize their troops in the Balkans. On November 6, the General Staff issued an order to form Army Group Albania as part of the 9th and 11th armies. Visconti Praska was removed from command, replaced by the Deputy Chief of the General Staff, General Ubaldo Soddu. On November 7, the Italians stopped active operations and began to prepare for a new offensive. There was a lull at the front.

On November 14, 1940, the Greek army launched an offensive in Western Macedonia. Soon the Greeks were advancing along the entire front. On November 21, General Soddu ordered the retreat of the Italian army. The Italians left the occupied territories in Greece and part of Albania. The plight of Army Group Albania was so dire that Soddu asked the high command to "mediate" Berlin. However, in Rome they still hoped to win on their own. Italian Foreign Minister Ciano and Mussolini, in negotiations with Ribbentrop and Hitler, refused military assistance to the Third Reich. But they gladly accepted material support.

The Italians tried to create a solid line of defense, deployed new forces to Albania. However, the situation could not be reversed. The troops were demoralized, tired, and the supplies were unsatisfactory. Mussolini was angry. Changed commander again. In December, Sodda was recalled, and a new chief of the General Staff, General Hugo Cavaliero, was appointed in his place. In Rome, they knew that Berlin was preparing an operation in the Balkans in the spring of 1941 and wanted to get ahead of an ally. Duce demanded that Cavaliero launch a new offensive. In mid-January 1941, the Italians went on the offensive again, but without much success. The Greek army successfully beat the enemy along the entire front. In early March, when Italy achieved a noticeable superiority in strength (26 divisions against 15 Greek), the Italians attacked again. Mussolini himself arrived in Tirana to oversee the operation. The offensive began on March 9, and there were stubborn battles for several days. The Greeks again repulsed the enemy onslaught. On March 16, the Italians stopped the offensive.

Thus, Italy could not break Greek resistance alone. Rome overestimated its strength and capabilities and underestimated the steadfastness and courage of the Greek people. Despite the superiority of the enemy forces, the Greeks fought bravely for their homeland and gave the Italians a tough rebuff. They skillfully defended and counterattacked, making good use of the terrain. The Italian troops once again showed low combat capability and morale. The mediocre Italian invasion failed. Greece was broken with a powerful blow by the Third Reich - in April 1941. By this time, Italy had over 500 thousand soldiers in the Balkans (against 200 thousand Greeks).
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  1. -2
    30 October 2020 05: 40
    Definitely, these Italians remind me of someone ... and antennae feel and the look is so ... focused Yes





    1. +6
      30 October 2020 05: 57
      Quote: BDRM 667
      Definitely, these Italians remind me of someone ...

      I apologize - the Greeks Yes
      Misled the similarity of overcoats and italian helmets modification of the Italian model M33, created in 1934 (M1934 / 39) and not in demand in Italy, which is why all the released helmets were sold in 1939 to Greece ...
      Greek gunners fire in the mountains from the mountain version of the 65-mm gun during the war with Italy

      Greek soldiers in battle in the mountains during the war with Italy
  2. +7
    30 October 2020 05: 54
    Italians, it seems, by the beginning of the Great Patriotic War caused Germany more harm than the British and French combined. Yes, during the Second World War, too, that ... In short, with such allies and enemies are not necessary.
    1. +4
      30 October 2020 06: 08
      Quote: Dalny V
      Italians, it seems, by the beginning of the Great Patriotic War caused Germany more harm than the British and French combined. Yes, during the Second World War, too, that ... In short, with such allies and enemies are not necessary.

      Perhaps, of all the Axis allies, Germany, the Finns and Hungarians were the most valuable ...
      1. +2
        30 October 2020 10: 41
        The most valuable were the Romanians. Irrecoverable losses of Romania during WWII -1 million 200 thousand, with a population of 15 million Hungary's irrecoverable losses -400 thousand, with a population of 9 million
        Romania irrevocably lost as much as Great Britain with colonies, the USA and Hungary in total.
        1. +1
          31 October 2020 10: 18
          Quote: ignoto
          The most valuable were the Romanians. Irrecoverable losses of Romania during WWII -1 million 200 thousand, with a population of 15 million Hungary's irrecoverable losses -400 thousand, with a population of 9 million
          Romania irrevocably lost as much as Great Britain with colonies, the USA and Hungary in total.

          the value of an ally is not measured by its losses but by its contribution to the common goal of the union.
          perishing centners is not a science.
      2. Alf
        +2
        30 October 2020 18: 31
        Quote: BDRM 667
        Quote: Dalny V
        Italians, it seems, by the beginning of the Great Patriotic War caused Germany more harm than the British and French combined. Yes, during the Second World War, too, that ... In short, with such allies and enemies are not necessary.

        Perhaps, of all the Axis allies, Germany, the Finns and Hungarians were the most valuable ...

        And Romanians. Because of the oil.
    2. +20
      30 October 2020 06: 34
      Far V (Mikhail)
      Italians, it seems, by the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, caused Germany more harm than the British and French combined.

      Well, yes, the 6th Field Army, led by Paulus, can be eternally grateful to the Italians and Romanians for their fate.
      1. +8
        30 October 2020 11: 10
        The Romanians did not really have anti-tank equipment adequate to the Soviet tanks in November 1942, the Romanian tank units received Czech vehicles from the Cameras, the Romanians could not eliminate the bridgeheads on the Don on their own, but the Germans ignored their persistent requests. So the Hans should blame themselves for the global feil at Stalingrad. But the fact that the Romanians closed the front and freed the German units to carry out the main tasks is a fact. Vegres, Italians also held the front and liberated the German forces. Romanian pilots showed themselves very well in battles against the Americans trying to level Ploiesti. 2 Romanian, one Hungarian and one Italian armies are serious, and if not for them, the Hans would not have ended up in Stalingrad and Mozdok.
        1. +2
          30 October 2020 11: 35
          Romanians also considered themselves descendants of Roman legionaries. And their Conductor Antonescu proclaimed Romania the "National Legionnaire State".
          It is their own fault that they did not know the capabilities of their own military industry and hoped for the Germans!
          Near Odessa, R-1 tankettes and R-2 tanks were thrown into battle instead of the more armored R-35!
          1. +1
            31 October 2020 10: 21
            Quote: hohol95
            Romanians also considered themselves descendants of Roman legionaries

            there is a difference between a descendant and a com.
            thinks that the one who calls his country "National Legionnaire State" is more the second than the first /
            1. +1
              31 October 2020 10: 58
              Quote: Maki Avellievich
              there is a difference between a descendant and com.[i] [/ i]
              thinks that the one who calls his country "National Legionnaire State" is more the second than the first /

              censorship worked for some reason.

              where "com." read "u-b-people-com." a completely censored word. today they use the word "hybrid"
            2. 0
              1 November 2020 10: 22
              The Lithuanians also ascribed to themselves the ancestors of the ancient Romans. There is nothing more to be proud of and nothing ...
      2. +6
        30 October 2020 11: 53
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        Well, yes, the 6th Field Army, led by Paulus, can be eternally grateful to the Italians and Romanians for their fate.

        Moreover, the Italians ended up there because the Germans needed to somehow separate the Romanian and Hungarian units. For the Germans feared that even on the front line the Hungarians and Romanians would begin to resolve the issue of "Whose Transylvania?" (their variant of Alsace and Lorraine). smile
    3. +4
      30 October 2020 10: 38
      For all their faults, the Italians fought. Unlike the French.
      1. +6
        30 October 2020 12: 38
        Quote: ignoto
        For all their faults, the Italians fought. Unlike the French.

        But why? Legion "Charlemagne" fought bravely, until the last day of the war, but only on the side of the state that occupied its own country.
        1. +2
          30 October 2020 14: 53
          Quote: AK1972
          Legion "Charlemagne" fought bravely, until the last day of the war, but only on the side of the state that occupied its own country.

          Not a legion, but an SS Charlemagne division.
          1. +1
            30 October 2020 16: 13
            I agree, but until 1943 they were called the French Volunteer Legion.
      2. +2
        30 October 2020 17: 39
        Quote: ignoto
        For all their faults, the Italians fought. Unlike the French.


        Well, the French fought against the Italians.
        As a result, the Italians' losses were almost 10: 1, they could not even take the border post near Nice (8 people and one machine gun), and their largest fortress in the Alps Chaberton was smashed with a single coastal defense gun on a railway platform.
        1. 0
          2 November 2020 17: 24
          Quote: deddem
          and their largest fortress in the Alps, Chaberton, was smashed with a single coastal defense gun on a railway platform.

          Not certainly in that way. Chaberton was crushed by siege artillery - a battery of 280-mm mortars, which worked at the target from a maximum distance. But the French worked well.
          ... On June 17, the 6th battery of the 154th artillery regiment was transferred to the concentration area. The commander of this battery was Lieutenant Miguet. It is noteworthy that this battery was armed with four heavy siege mortars of the Schneider-Creusot system with a caliber of 280 mm.
          Such a siege mortar weighs under 15 tons and throws 200kg shells. In the transport position, it consists of several parts. All of these parts are dragged into position and then put together. I think it will be superfluous to say that it is necessary in advance and think carefully about where to put all this hardware before dragging it somewhere.
          The range of fire of such a mortar according to the passport is about 11000 meters.
          To implement the plan, Lieutenant Mige split the battery into two parts, which took up positions 10 kilometers from Chaberton, on the opposite slopes of the mountains. Artillery observers occupied four points in front of and to the right of Mont Chaberton. The Italian 515 battery was hidden by a cloud of fog that hung for several days. Plus the snow at the top made it difficult to identify targets. All this time, the "cloud battleship" fired at the aforementioned targets and did not suspect that it had already been ordered. The French were silent and patiently waited for the weather.
          On the morning of June 21, the fog over the Italian battery 515 cleared and sunny weather reigned. The French opened fire. The position of the artillery observers to the right of the mountain made it possible to take a confident fork, which Monsieur Miguet did. Within three and a half hours, the battery fired 57 shells equipped with shock fuses. The result was damage to 6 of the 8 guns of the "battleship", 9 killed Italians and more than 50 wounded. Interestingly, the Italians could not determine who was beating them. The battleship left the battle without a cable car, food storage, observation position, communication lines and power lines. But with 2 guns instead of 8 and saved ammunition (the powder magazines were not damaged). The battleship allegedly continued to fight heroically, but given the damaged communication line and observation position, it was unlikely that his actions were effective.

          https://ru-artillery.livejournal.com/456482.html
      3. 0
        31 October 2020 10: 22
        Quote: ignoto
        For all their faults, the Italians fought. Unlike the French.

        if the Italians not they would have fought more territories and resources.
  3. +8
    30 October 2020 06: 59
    Italy for Germany, in WWII, played the same role as Romania for Russia during WWII.
    “We don't care, Your Majesty, on whose side Romania will enter the war. If on ours, it will take 10 divisions to save it from defeat. If against us, it will take the same 10 divisions to crush it "
    1. +3
      30 October 2020 14: 20
      what does Russia have to do with it?))) Your Majesty is the Chief of the Field General Staff Moltke who spoke to Kaiser Wilhelm II)))
    2. 0
      9 November 2020 21: 28
      Italy for Germany, in WWII, played that

      - to surround monetary Switzerland on all sides is already an achievement, the price of an ally of Italy is a threat to the dwarfs. not military, financial superiority in Europe.
      And the threat to Malta and further to Port Said and Suez
  4. +6
    30 October 2020 08: 06
    Italians are clowns. It was not for nothing that after WWI there was a joke that the Italians in the Great War were needed in order for the Austrians to at least beat someone. Well, the cunning-faced Duce jumped in 1945, was also multi-vector and tried to sit on two chairs at the same time. The clown waited until the very last moment and entered the war on Hitler's side only on June 10, 1940, when the defeat of France was visible even to the blind and understandable even to the last fool. If, on the contrary, France and England would have given on the tinsel to Germany, then Duce would have acted on their side.
    1. +3
      30 October 2020 10: 45
      And there was also a joke that Italians are better able to build ships than to fight on them.
      It is more correct to apply it to the French, who practically did not show themselves in any way at sea during the two world wars. Unlike. from the Italians.
      1. +1
        30 October 2020 11: 02
        Well, actually, in the WWII war, the French simply had nowhere to use their fleet. The Germans in May 1940 beat them not by amphibious assault, but by land through Belgium and the Ardennes. Well, then, after the surrender of France, the English fleet in July 1940 simply stupidly sank the French fleet so that it would not fall into the hands of the Germans.
        As for WWI, there was a kind of division of labor among the allies. The French fought with the Germans on land, especially since the Germans captured the entire northeastern France in the first few days and the battles were fought on the territory of France for almost the entire war. And the British staged a naval blockade of Germany, drowned the German fleet, and fought against the Turks in the Middle East.
      2. 0
        31 October 2020 17: 33
        Italians as shipbuilders are also questionable. Speed ​​over survivability is not the best choice for a battleship. Remember "Roma" and "Julius Caesar - Novorossiysk"
  5. +8
    30 October 2020 10: 09
    The Greek army and the Greek command showed themselves in this war from a very good side
  6. +4
    30 October 2020 10: 13
    Thus, Italy could not break Greek resistance alone.


    Yes, how much to them. laughing Here they are in their place, in such a war the Italians are invincible, what pasta can be without pork!

    But the ending was always sad, either in Europe or in Africa. request
    1. +6
      30 October 2020 10: 26
      Some fascists attacked other "fascists". Or they could have won over to the Axis side. But the fervor of the descendants of the "legionnaires of Caesar" prevented the Germans from doing this action!

      A propaganda poster for pre-war Greece (background - Ioannis Metaxas)

      The Day Greece Said No
      Alexander Sirota Aug 05 '15
      warspot.ru
      1. -5
        30 October 2020 10: 51
        Actually, fashi is from the word "together".
        Any mobilization society is fascist.
        Historians distinguish four types of such a society:
        1. Pure fascism (Italy)
        2. National fascism (Germany)
        3. Social fascism (guess?)
        4. Iberian fascism
        1. +6
          30 October 2020 11: 25
          3. Social fascism (guess?)

          British, or what?
          2. National fascism (Germany)

          Japan is coming!
      2. +3
        30 October 2020 11: 33
        Some fascists attacked other "fascists"

        Hi Alexey! hi Everything is not so simple and unambiguous there.
        In modern Greece, the attitude towards Metaxas is ambiguous. On the one hand, he is considered the ideological predecessor of the dictatorship of the "black colonels", on the other, he is respected for his patriotism, the policy of the welfare state, the growth of the Greek army's fighting capacity, and military victories over the Italian invaders. He died (was poisoned by the British ???) in January 1941, and his successors collaborated with the British. But apart from them, there were other organizations of resistance to the Germans in Greece.
        James Aldridge has a good book, The Sea Eagle, about the very different Greeks in Crete.
        1. +4
          30 October 2020 11: 39
          on the other hand, he is respected for his patriotism, the policy of the welfare state, the growth of the Greek army's combat capability, and military victories over the Italian invaders.

          The Greek analogue of "Fuhrer" is the leader of the nation!
          If the Italians did not get into a fight with the "Hellenes", then the Germans could have a chance to drag the Greeks into the "orbit of their interests."
          1. +4
            30 October 2020 11: 47
            This is from the "if-yes-if-only" area. smile
            1. +7
              30 October 2020 11: 51
              I don’t deny it! If only there would be only grandmothers without grandfathers!
              Someone still believes in an alternative reality without the Great October Revolution and their own birth in the family of a high-ranking nobleman!
              1. +1
                30 October 2020 12: 12
                Or grandmother would be a grandfather ... subject to certain conditions. laughing
                1. +2
                  30 October 2020 12: 17
                  Mutation Serrr ... Mutation!
          2. 0
            April 4 2021 13: 48
            They did not have a chance, the Germans roamed about in Greece to negotiate with Metaxos, even Goebbels personally came, so the Soviet representatives tried to persuade Greece to conclude various treaties, but in the end the Royal Prime Minister continued his national policy of neutrality. Greece did not need a war, but since Italy decided to attack, they fought back in full.
      3. 0
        April 4 2021 13: 46
        Prime Minister Metaxas's Greek non-partisan monarchical regime has nothing in common with fascism. These are tales of the Greek and Soviet communists offended by the fact that General Metaxas dispersed the fucking chatty parliament and all the Greek parties. And on the poster, Metaxas himself and a phalangist of the Greek National Youth Organization, an analogue of the Soviet Komsomol and pioneers, and the latter is literally by name, for the Greek word scapanes is translated as Old Russian pioneer (ordinary engineering units)
    2. +4
      30 October 2020 11: 11
      Are they not French?
      1. +7
        30 October 2020 11: 22
        It seemed to myself, but ...
        "- And I do not like Kirkorov, one word - Romanian!
        - He's a Bulgarian.
        - What's the difference! "(C)
        Here and here about the same, laughing
    3. +4
      31 October 2020 05: 14
      Uncle Kostya hi ,
      It is doubly shameful when the descendants of these worthless warriors-occupiers, who became famous in battles with old men, women and children, are accepted with honors, for money, only in one country.
      1. +2
        31 October 2020 08: 23
        Hi Lesha hi , this is where, who loves them so much?
        1. +3
          31 October 2020 16: 26
          Vornezh officials. Soon, on our behalf, they will apologize for the fact that the Nazis snitched on the tinsel. Everything goes to that. And then suddenly in "Europe" they will not be welcome.
  7. +3
    30 October 2020 12: 04
    including the 131st Panzer Division "Centaur"

    The motto (motto): "Fulmineo fuoco di fulminea mole" - "Lightning fire!"

    The 131st Panzer Division "Centauro" (Centauro, "Ketavr"), was formed on April 20, 1939 on the basis of the 1st Panzer Brigade in Siena (Siena). The Second World War found the division in Albania. From October 1940 - on the Balkan front and in Greece. After she was returned to Italy, where she was from June 1941 to August 1942.
    The division used on the North African Front fought in Libya and Tunisia and suffered heavy losses and defeats. The division was transferred to Tunisia in January 1943.
    It was officially disbanded in April 1943.
    The remnants of the division eventually capitulated at Cape Bon on May 14, 1943.
    1. +7
      30 October 2020 12: 16
      Here, however, is a glorious division - only defeats and surrenders, the face of the army. laughing
      1. +2
        30 October 2020 12: 19
        Shredded descendants of the proud legionnaires, blood-tainted by barbarism.
        And what awaits us?
        Or we are a real "melting pot" for any blood!
        1. 0
          4 December 2020 10: 03
          Don't be so sad ... it's actually "antipatriotic". We are "pure Aryans" - and we are "proud people". Hack it on your pessimistic nose, dear. smile
          1. 0
            5 December 2020 23: 21
            Hack it on your pessimistic nose, dear.

            We can do without the "nicks"!
            But to create all sorts of national "ghettos" in which everything is only for "others" should not be!
            It is necessary to "melt", but according to the law! Otherwise, instead of battlefields in the NKR, proud holders of Russian passports sort things out on the streets of Russian cities! And in the news they show stories about cafes and gyms where I only admit people from Kyrgyzstan ...
      2. 0
        4 December 2020 10: 00
        And nothing so that here is a parody of Russian village peasants depicted?
        1. +1
          4 December 2020 10: 05
          Have you seen such men in Russian villages? I am not, but the village is here, in front of my window and with people every day I communicate.
          1. +1
            4 December 2020 10: 12
            To my shame - I saw. But I don't consider all Russians to be drunken drunks and fools. But this is not a reason - to consider all Italians - "cowards and pasta". Look at the comments: more than half of these "Russian heroes" did not even serve in the army ... but already, "whether it’s the Russians, in one fell swoop, seven beats" think. And they will not remember a word about the defeat of the Russians in the First World War and the Second World War ..... they know that they will "peck".
            1. +2
              4 December 2020 10: 46
              And I never said that I consider all Italians "cowards and pasta". They had the 10th MAS flotilla of Prince Valerio Borghese, and these guys knew how to fight and did it mostly successfully. There were also the commanders of individual ships who went to the apparent death, completing the assignment. For example, the commander and crew of the destroyer "Lupo" (Wolf), covering transports with German soldiers and equipment heading to Tobruk to Rommel, opened fire and attacked three British destroyers, each of which was at least twice as strong as the Italian ship. The convoy reached the port without loss and, surprisingly, "Lupo" remained afloat and even kept its course, having lost half of the team. Well, how can you not respect such people. Unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the commander.
              And as for our sluggish slag - do not pay attention to the family, they are not worth it - this is slag.
              1. +2
                4 December 2020 15: 07
                Quote: Sea Cat
                ... Unfortunately I don't remember the name of the commander.

                Hi Konstantin!
                Poryskal-found. Captain Second Rank Francesco Mimbelli. After the battle, the British claimed that they were fighting with several enemy ships. So successful and fast were Lupo's maneuvers. hi
                1. +1
                  5 December 2020 16: 17
                  Hello, Sergey. It's good that I found it, otherwise I racked my brains, but I could not remember. good
                  1. +2
                    5 December 2020 16: 23
                    Greetings Konstantin!

                    This is it.
                    1. +1
                      5 December 2020 16: 25
                      Quote: Phil77
                      It's him

                      And this is a ship named after him.
                      1. +1
                        5 December 2020 16: 32
                        They did the right thing by giving his name to the new ship, the man deserved it completely.
                        And this is how the Lupo destroyer looked like, and there was nothing at all about weapons: three hundred square meters and four one-pipe tank destroyers, and they were not afraid to kick the British in the teeth! good
                      2. +1
                        5 December 2020 16: 38
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        , and they were not afraid to kick the British in the teeth

                        I just looked at an article in * Modelist-Constructor *, 09.2015, dedicated to this battle. There were six Englishmen! Three cruisers and three destroyers. Oh!
                      3. +1
                        5 December 2020 17: 22
                        As far as I remember, the cruisers did not seem to participate at all, but I cannot say.
                      4. +1
                        5 December 2020 17: 25
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        cruisers did not seem to participate at all, but I cannot say.

                        * Dido *, * Orion *, * Ajax *. hi
                      5. +1
                        5 December 2020 17: 28
                        No, I mean that they were present there, but did not seem to take part in the battle, or even a shame for the "mistress of the seas". laughing
                      6. +1
                        5 December 2020 17: 39
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        did not seem to take part in the battle,


                      7. 0
                        5 December 2020 17: 52
                        So the source in which I read about this fight is, to put it mildly, very inaccurate. smile Then the victory of the Italians is even more significant.
                      8. +1
                        5 December 2020 17: 53
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        a shame for the "mistress of the seas".

                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        a shame for the "mistress of the seas".

                        Eh, Seryoga-Bubalika would help us!
                        I would tell everything in detail! winked
                      9. +1
                        5 December 2020 17: 54
                        He says that he doesn't have enough time for anything, though he wrote to him about a month ago, or maybe more.
                      10. +1
                        5 December 2020 17: 57
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        a month ago,

                        He has a pre-New Year bustle. And yet he used to be more active. It's a pity, a good and interesting interlocutor. With humor! good
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. +1
                8 December 2020 14: 38
                I have not spoken about you personally. It is bitter that "slag" forms "public opinion" and this is against the background of the complete ruin of Russian education. For the most part, an uneducated and inadequate soldier is worse than a traitor ..
    2. +6
      30 October 2020 13: 43
      The Centauro is one of the best Italian divisions.
      At El Ageil, she repulsed the attempt of the 7th TD (those same "desert rats") of the British to cut off Rommel's retreat, doing the Germans a great service.
      Under Kasserine, the division was at the forefront of the battle formation, breaking through the American defenses on the first day.
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. +3
    30 October 2020 12: 20
    Day "OKHI" Greeks honor almost as we do Victory Day

    1. +4
      30 October 2020 12: 33
      Really the same man in a mustache, with a revolver and a stereo tube from the photograph. Judging by the look and the finger, he asks the marshal: "Are we sure we are running correctly? The cafe is in the other direction!"
      1. +5
        30 October 2020 12: 42
        Quote: Petrik66
        "Are we running correctly? The cafe is in the other direction!"

        I think they are running into the home (wine glass in ours) laughing
      2. Alf
        +3
        30 October 2020 18: 35
        Quote: Petrik66
        Judging by the look and finger, he asks the marshal: "
        I see women and grappa. Forward !!!
        1. +3
          30 October 2020 23: 14
          More likely - Ouzo, Tsipuro or Raki.
          Grappa is for Italians and French.
          1. Alf
            +1
            31 October 2020 19: 24
            Quote: hohol95
            More likely - Ouzo, Tsipuro or Raki.
            Grappa is for Italians and French.

            Perhaps I will not argue.
  10. +1
    29 November 2020 18: 36
    Quote: Kot_Kuzya
    Italians are clowns. It was not for nothing that after WWI there was a joke that the Italians in the Great War were needed in order for the Austrians to at least beat someone. Well, the cunning-faced Duce jumped in 1945, was also multi-vector and tried to sit on two chairs at the same time. The clown waited until the very last moment and entered the war on Hitler's side only on June 10, 1940, when the defeat of France was visible even to the blind and understandable even to the last fool. If, on the contrary, France and England would have given on the tinsel to Germany, then Duce would have acted on their side.


    I see that there are many stereotypes about my country. I want to note that we lost the Second World War, but won the first. The opposite happened to you, but by right you remember only the Great Patriotic War. If you traveled a little more, someone would understand that ITALY is not a country of the Second World War, just like Russia is not a country of Stalin. I like this site and I am a guest, but I don’t think that there are no stereotypes about Russians in Italy, however I know that these are stereotypes, because the Russians I met were different. So the Italians are not clowns, like the Russians ...........


    sorry pet my russian from google translate
    1. +2
      2 December 2020 14: 01
      I will answer, though belatedly. Do you know examples when a Russian soldier (even in WWI, even in WWII) would have occupied Italy? Or was it part of the occupation forces? There is a reverse example.
      1. 0
        April 4 2021 13: 55
        At the time of Suvorov, for some Italians they were quite themselves occupiers.
        1. 0
          April 5 2021 10: 24
          for some Italians

          So you yourself answered - SOME !!! Supporters of Enslavement by the French Republic)))
  11. 0
    30 November 2020 11: 19
    A joke about two divisions against the Italians and ten to help her out of nowhere appeared
  12. +2
    4 December 2020 10: 05
    Macaroni ..... whether we are: we will shower all enemies with hats. wassat