Military Review

F-35 fighters instead of the Turkish Air Force may receive Greece, the United States fears that Turkey will aim at them S-400

63

The United States may sell 20 of its latest fifth-generation F-35A Lightning II fighters to Greece. At the same time, six of them were originally planned to be transferred to Turkey, but they did not do this after Ankara made a decision to purchase Russian S-400 air defense systems.


This was reported by the Greek newspaper Estia.

Since Athens and Ankara are in conflict over hydrocarbon deposits in the Mediterranean, such a move by the United States will not only increase the military power of Greece, but will also give Turkey a signal about which side Washington is on.

However, this message sounds somewhat premature. The United States has not yet given formal consent to the sale of the F-35A to Athens under the FMS (United States War Sales Program) procedure by the American Congress. However, the Greek newspaper that published the information refers to negotiations between US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and the Greek authorities during his last visit to Athens.

Most likely, there are no formal obstacles to selling these aircraft to Greece, which is a member of the North Atlantic Alliance. In addition, unlike the decision to sell the F-35 by the Americans to the Arab states, this deal will not cause objections from Israel.

At the same time, the United States fears that during the transfer of the F-35 fighters to the Greek Air Force, Turkey will try to test the S-400s, previously acquired from Russia, on them - "test", aiming anti-aircraft missile systems at the fifth generation fighters.
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/U.S. Air Force (R. Nial Bradshaw)
63 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. Alien From
      Alien From 29 October 2020 13: 03
      +5
      I completely agree with you. Very friendly collective farm))
  2. Woodman
    Woodman 29 October 2020 12: 52
    +1
    At the same time, the United States fears that during the transfer of F-35 fighters to the Greek Air Force
    This story with the Turkish F-35 has been dragging on for so long that it seems that the United States simply has no one to "attach" these fighters ... No one willing to pay for this miracle of technology.
    1. Vitaly gusin
      Vitaly gusin 29 October 2020 13: 28
      +7
      Quote: Lesovik
      It seems that the United States simply has no one to "attach" these fighters ... There are no people willing to pay for this miracle of technology.

      Not all states agree with you.
      The U.S. Department of Defense has signed an agreement to purchase 478 additional F-35 Lightning II aircraft for a total of $ 34 billion.
      Currently, about 440 F-35 aircraft have been delivered to military organizations around the world, including the United States, Norway, Israel, Italy, Great Britain, Australia, South Korea and Japan.
      Today the UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, India, Canada, Finland, Poland, Switzerland are considering the purchase, Israel, in addition to 50 aircraft, will make an order for 10 more units.
      Perhaps not everything has been announced yet and the list may be replenished in the near future. So that there are those who wish pay for this miracle of technology!
      1. Woodman
        Woodman 29 October 2020 13: 51
        0
        Quote: Vitaly Gusin
        Currently, about 440 F-35 aircraft have been delivered to military organizations around the world, including the United States,

        More than 300 of them are in the USA.
        Quote: Vitaly Gusin
        Israel will make an order for another 50 units in addition to 10 aircraft.

        Sorry, but I only found information about 16 F-35 Israel ...
        1. zlinn
          zlinn 29 October 2020 13: 55
          +4
          24 out of 50 ordered have already been delivered and the order is going to be expanded to 60
        2. Vitaly gusin
          Vitaly gusin 29 October 2020 14: 53
          +1
          Quote: Lesovik
          More than 300 of them are in the USA.

          In general, the US Department of Defense is planning to purchase 1763
          It is clear that this plane is for internal use, like everyone else does it for themselves, but if there are those who want it, they sell it.
          Quote: Lesovik
          Sorry, but I only found information about 16 F-35 Israel ...

          Now in Israel there are large joint exercises of all branches of the armed forces.
          And during the review of these exercises, it was announced that first 10 F-35 aircraft would be purchased in addition to 50, and then the F-15EX.
          Today, the US Secretary of Defense in Israel, will be negotiating the supply of F-22.
          1. Iris
            Iris 29 October 2020 20: 22
            0
            Good evening !
            I already saw somewhere out of the corner of my eye about the F-22. Sounds absolutely fantastic! After all, the Congress seems to have banned them from selling in principle?
            1. Vitaly gusin
              Vitaly gusin 29 October 2020 21: 01
              +2
              Quote: Iris
              After all, the Congress seems to have banned them from selling in principle?

              Yes, you are right, but there is one clause passed by Congress that the United States
              support Israel's quality military advantage.
              But since the UAE sells 50 F-35 aircraft, and Saudi Arabia and Qatar are next, Congress will consider Israel's request for the supply of F22 and a bomb for the GBU-57 bunkers.
              1. Iris
                Iris 30 October 2020 20: 14
                0
                Of course, if the decision to sell the F-22 is indeed made, it will be great news for Israel: although the aircraft is almost 20 years old, there is reason to believe that the technical solutions laid down in the project will be relevant for a long time. And yet, when you read the words of the Congress about "quality advantage", you feel bewildered .. Is such an advantage lies in technology alone? Not even speaking about our own avionics, which has already become a tradition, the quality advantage is provided not only (and, perhaps, not so much) by the type of combat vehicles, but by the combat training of the pilots. As far as I know, Israeli fighter pilots have few competitors in the world at all and do not have them at all in the Middle East. Therefore, in my amateurish opinion, even without the Raptor, neither 50 F-35s in the Emirates, nor the same number of them in Bahrain, nor even the same machines in the Saudis will change Israel's QUALITATIVE military advantage in the region. Although the military, of course, may have their own arguments ..
                1. Vitaly gusin
                  Vitaly gusin 30 October 2020 22: 51
                  +1
                  Quote: Iris
                  although the aircraft is almost 20 years old, there is reason to believe that the technical solutions included in the project will be relevant for a long time

                  If it arises (and yes it does), you can put your own.
                  Quote: Iris
                  Therefore, in my amateurish opinion, even without the Raptor, neither 50 F-35s in the Emirates, nor the same number of them in Bahrain, nor even the same machines in the Saudis will change Israel's QUALITATIVE military advantage in the region. Although the military, of course, may have their own arguments ..

                  The fact that you wrote it is true, but the advantage should be visible, and it was precisely with a quantitative advantage in arming the armies that the Arab countries imposed wars on Israel and only then they were convinced of what you described.
                  Israel does not want to find itself in this position again.
                  An example of the IRGC in Syria. Israel does not allow them to gain a foothold and there are no serious answers to all destroyed objects. understand how it threatens them.
                2. Vitaly gusin
                  Vitaly gusin 31 October 2020 09: 51
                  +1
                  Quote: Iris
                  Of course, if the decision to sell the F-22 is indeed made, it will be great news for Israel.

                  There was a message today
                  The Al-Sharq Al-Awsat newspaper reported tonight (Friday) that US President Donald Trump has approved the sale of the elusive F-22 Raptor interceptor to the Israeli Air Force.
                  The post was not approved by any Israeli or American source. The report should be taken with caution because even if the president has confirmed his intention to bring the plane to Israel for sale, it is necessary to pass legislation in Congress, as there is a law prohibiting the sale of aircraft to foreign countries.
          2. bayard
            bayard 29 October 2020 21: 45
            0
            Quote: Vitaly Gusin
            Today, the US Secretary of Defense in Israel, will be negotiating the supply of F-22.

            The F-22 has long been out of production, is the United States ready to supply you with aircraft that are in service?
            I think that it will still be about the acquisition of the F-15EX. This is much more reasonable for Israel itself.
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 29 October 2020 22: 09
              +1
              Quote: bayard
              Is the United States ready to supply you with aircraft that are in service?

              They need to do something with the F-22, the car is outdated, they need modernization, they need money for this. The series is small, a "next generation" fighter is on its way. A briefcase without a handle is hard to carry and a pity to leave.
              To modernize and sell Israel, Japan and other closest allies is quite a reasonable decision, in 5 years.
            2. Vitaly gusin
              Vitaly gusin 29 October 2020 22: 12
              +1
              Quote: bayard
              The F-22 has long been out of production, is the United States ready to supply you with aircraft that are in service?

              You and I can only rely on the available information.
              In early 2016, the debate about the need to increase the number of F-22s reached a climax, and Congress directed the US Air Force to study what would be required to resume production of the super-fighter. This study was completed at the end of 2016, and some of its findings were openly discussed. but the document itself has remained classified until now.
              Assumptions of what will be required to resume production of the F-22 and produce 194 additional Raptors:
              Total one-time start-up costs over a five-year period will be more than $ 10 billion.
              Israel, and even possibly Australia, may also be interested in buying one or two squadrons of new production F-22s.
              Quote: bayard
              I think that it will still be about the acquisition of the F-15EX.

              This is practically decided, after receiving 50 F-35s, 10 more will be ordered, and only then F-15EX and this does not require a visit from the Minister of Defense. On October 22, the Israeli Defense Minister was in the United States. And today these issues are being resolved in Israel.
              Quote: bayard
              This is much more reasonable for Israel itself.

              Let's leave that to the Defense Ministry and the Israeli military political cabinet.
              1. OgnennyiKotik
                OgnennyiKotik 29 October 2020 22: 25
                +2
                Why is the US new F22s, they don't find old applications? There is already a flying prototype of the "next generation" fighter, the concept of air combat is shifting to drones, a huge number of new developments will be tested in 23-25 ​​years.
                If you start production of F22, you need to organize it from 0, a huge expense. Upgrade and sell to Israel, Japan, Australia. They have asked for a long time, just 200 pieces will be sold.
                1. Vitaly gusin
                  Vitaly gusin 29 October 2020 22: 42
                  +1
                  Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                  If you start production of F22, you need to organize it from 0, a huge expense.

                  CONTINUED
                  The Air Force also noted that while approximately 95 percent of the F-22-related production equipment is still available, physical production facilities support other Lockheed Martin programs such as the F-35. After research, the service decided to locate "primary production equipment" in a warehouse in the Sierra Army
                  The service also determined that it is still “technically possible” to develop an export version of the F-22, potentially helping to share the cost burden and further reduce unit costs.

                  But there is another opinion.
                  The most cost-effective way to increase the power of the F-22 is to upgrade the 33 old 20 F-22 units used for training and testing to full operational readiness. This effect-based option would create an additional F-22 squadron at a fraction of the cost, any other way to achieve the 5th generation fighter's combat effectiveness.
                  Perhaps this is the way that Israel will participate in this.
                  1. OgnennyiKotik
                    OgnennyiKotik 29 October 2020 22: 48
                    +1
                    Quote: Vitaly Gusin
                    The most cost-effective way to increase the power of the F-22 is to retrofit 33 old 20 F-22 units

                    This is a good option.
                    If you need to start producing new F22s, you need 1-2 years to process F22s for modern technologies, 2-3 years to train the plant and specialists, then it will start producing 10-15 pieces per year, just by the 30s, 20-30 new ones will be made. This is definitely unnecessary for anyone.
                    1. Vitaly gusin
                      Vitaly gusin 29 October 2020 22: 58
                      0
                      Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                      This is a good option.

                      I agree that modernization is what is right for Israel, because all aircraft that were purchased were, to a greater or lesser extent, modernized for their needs.
                      1. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 29 October 2020 23: 00
                        +3
                        Quote: Vitaly Gusin
                        modernization is what suits Israel

                        Yeah, in fact, you can do all the work yourself. The plane itself and new engines are needed from the USA.
                      2. Vitaly gusin
                        Vitaly gusin 29 October 2020 23: 08
                        -1
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        Yeah, in fact, you can do all the work yourself.

                        You and I can only assume, we'll wait and see.
                      3. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 29 October 2020 23: 19
                        +1
                        Quote: Vitaly Gusin
                        You and I can only assume, we'll wait and see.

                        Of course, this is the most interesting.
                        Now somewhere around 185 F22, 20-30 pieces for Israel, the same amount for Australia, 10-15 for Britain (although they will jam money), 10 for testing, 100-120 for Japan, South Korea may ask for 20 pieces. Start transfer by 25 year, the engines will run out of service, modernization will be needed and the next generation aircraft is on the way, Loyal Wingman will go into series production, and so on.
                      4. Vitaly gusin
                        Vitaly gusin 29 October 2020 23: 55
                        0
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        Of course, this is the most interesting.

                        Do you know how theory differs from practice?
  • venik
    venik 29 October 2020 20: 38
    0
    Quote: Vitaly Gusin
    So, there are those who want to pay for this miracle of technology!

    ======
    There is! There is! Especially if you take "for the kingpin", strangle it well ..... Then refuse - as if NOBODY will !!!
    1. Vitaly gusin
      Vitaly gusin 29 October 2020 21: 33
      -1
      Quote: venik
      There is! There is! Especially if you take "for the kingpin", strangle it well ..... Then refuse - as if NOBODY will !!!

      Are you using Sputnik V as an example?
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 29 October 2020 13: 29
    +6
    On the contrary. They are fighting for them. The queue is 7 years ahead - everything is scheduled. And here - a few ready-made.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 29 October 2020 13: 53
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      And here - a few ready-made.

      Have they already been transferred to the US Air Force?
    2. Egor53
      Egor53 29 October 2020 15: 47
      +1
      Queue for the F-35, you are laughing. Such queues in the days of the USSR were organized by the party committee, for a state loan. If you do not stand in line, you will be kicked out of work.
      The F-35 is not an airplane, it sucks. It is subsonic, at 1,2 M it can go out for no more than 2 minutes. Its body is aluminum with rivets. He has no trace of invisibility. The cover of "invisibility" is peeling off.
      Ours in Syria determined it on the S-400 without any problems, and the Turks will do the same.
      And Greece is bullshit, just like the rest of NATO members are forced into force.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 29 October 2020 16: 17
        +6
        You have mixed up different indicators.
        F-35 quietly gives 1.6 MAX on afterburner. It was tested up to 1.7 MAX.
        A 1.2 MAX is the afterburner cruising speed. Really small, only 2 minutes, several hundred kilometers.
        F-35 gives a stable circular turn 28 degrees per second at a speed of 0.85 MAX.
        It's cooler than the F-16 and much cooler than the F-15. The aircraft is highly maneuverable and has a sturdy trapezoidal wing.
        The stealth coating cracks at the junction of the fuselage and tail assembly during sharp turns. Then you have to "tint"
        ---
        But as an interceptor or fighter for gaining air supremacy, the F-35 is not suitable, due to insufficient climb speed and maximum speed.
        ---
        I'm always glad to fill in the gaps in your knowledge. hi
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 29 October 2020 16: 16
      -2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      On the contrary. They fight for them.

      Uh-huh ... what if they don't take it? And if they don’t take it, we will turn off the gas! fellow
      Whoever takes a pack of tickets will get a water pump! wassat
  • da Vinci
    da Vinci 29 October 2020 14: 32
    -1
    As there is no one, and the Poles are the first in line as beneficiaries!
  • vadson
    vadson 29 October 2020 12: 52
    +1
    Maybe sell .... Or maybe not. You have to pay for them. And Greece has so-so credit history. I don't think Athens will find funds for this toy
    1. frruc
      frruc 29 October 2020 12: 57
      +1
      Poland or Lithuania will buy, they have a lot of money!
      tongue
  • times
    times 29 October 2020 12: 52
    17
    States may sell 20 of the latest fifth-generation F-35A fighters to Greece

    Greece is poor. Or again on credit?
    1. MTN
      MTN 29 October 2020 13: 07
      -2
      Quote: mal
      Or again on credit?

      Of course, on credit OR again, the islands will pay off like Germany a couple of decades ago.
      1. Pavlos Melas
        Pavlos Melas 29 October 2020 14: 07
        +1
        Quote: MTN
        Quote: mal
        Or again on credit?

        Of course, on credit OR again, the islands will pay off like Germany a couple of decades ago.

        When did we sell the islands to the Germans?
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 29 October 2020 14: 35
        +1
        Or a large military base. Not cash. The Americans are going to develop the island of Crete.
  • Ka-52
    Ka-52 29 October 2020 12: 57
    +2
    US fears Turkey will aim S-400s at them

    let Greece be afraid, what does the US have to do with it? Although it was rightly noted here - two NATO members threaten each other, and the head of the alliance cares only about what threatens the brainchild of his military industry. And how can you then read the lines "and at this time we must consolidate our efforts to repel aggressive Russia"? laughing
    1. MTN
      MTN 29 October 2020 13: 08
      -1
      Quote: Ka-52
      let Greece be afraid, what does the US have to do with it?

      They are afraid that invisible planes will suddenly become visible and that the S-400 installation will be able not only to see them but also to destroy them, and that the idiot advertisement about the F35's invincibility will disappear.

      And planes should be sold ................... loot.
      1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
        Sidor Amenpodestovich 29 October 2020 13: 22
        +4
        Quote: MTN
        They are afraid that invisible planes will suddenly become visible and that the S-400 installation will be able not only to see them but also to destroy them, and that the idiot advertisement about the F35's invincibility will disappear.

        But first the Israeli and then the Azerbaijani "comrades" tirelessly convince each and every one that the effectiveness of Russian air defense systems is greatly exaggerated.
        So both sides are right and wrong at the same time? Schrödinger's experts, hehe? Or how?
      2. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 29 October 2020 13: 59
        +3
        Quote: MTN
        Quote: Ka-52
        let Greece be afraid, what does the US have to do with it?

        They are afraid that invisible planes will suddenly become visible and that the S-400 installation will be able not only to see them but also to destroy them, and that the idiot advertisement about the F35's invincibility will disappear.


        The planes are not invisible, but inconspicuous. There is no invincible weapon. The only question is how effectively it can be used by the system of which this weapon will be a part.
        1. A. Privalov
          A. Privalov 29 October 2020 15: 13
          10
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          The planes are not invisible, but inconspicuous.

          The fact is that some of the VO visitors are fully confident that it should look like this: lol

          They are now minus. wassat
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 29 October 2020 15: 40
            +1
            Colonel do not see well or ask -? If the latter is so, say: I want cons. But it won't be for us.
          2. And Makarov
            And Makarov 29 October 2020 16: 29
            16
            Quote: A. Privalov
            The fact is that some of the VO visitors are fully confident that it should look like this:

            "Do you see a gopher? And I do not see, but He is"
          3. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 29 October 2020 21: 00
            -1
            Quote: A. Privalov
            The fact is that some of the VO visitors are fully confident that it should look like this:

            it turned out funny laughing there are no minuses for this post, it comes out and this part is not bully
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 29 October 2020 21: 04
              0
              There is "this part" or not - does not depend on the picture on the VO.
  • Mytholog
    Mytholog 29 October 2020 13: 03
    -1
    may sell Greece 20 of the latest fifth-generation fighters F-35A

    But with the solvency of the Greeks - much worse than that of the Turks.
    In any case, after the sale of the F-35A to the Greeks, a new contract for the S-400 with Turkey will not be superfluous at all))
  • 9PA
    9PA 29 October 2020 13: 22
    0
    Good news
  • Kerensky
    Kerensky 29 October 2020 13: 36
    -1
    At the same time, the United States fears that during the transfer of F-35 fighters to the Greek Air Force, Turkey will try to test the S-400 on them,

    So it is necessary to sell but ... not to give! Let the Greeks pay the loan and ride them straight to the USA ...
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 29 October 2020 13: 40
    -2
    Delov something to modernize the Greeks theirs C300 to version C400 + !!! lol Then the Greeks will not see penguins as their own back of the head! laughing
  • rocket757
    rocket757 29 October 2020 13: 59
    0
    To combat drones, the option is expensive!
    Lightweight, cheap stormtroopers are best suited for this "job".
  • Astra55
    Astra55 29 October 2020 14: 17
    +7
    If Greece, then in my opinion there are two options:
    1. Or they want to tease Erdogan.
    2. Or why do they need the F-35 at this point?
    1. hydroy
      hydroy 29 October 2020 20: 04
      0
      They want to subvert Erdogan and fear that the sultan may be uncontrollable. There, a spark will be enough to ignite a full-scale war between Turkey and Greece, at least in their parliaments)
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 29 October 2020 14: 28
    +1
    Colleagues, off topic. Remember that on October 29, 1918, THE COMMUNIST POP OF YOUTH WAS BORN! For me, this is more important than NATO and their squabbles.
    Glory to the first Komsomol members, builders: Magnitka and Dnepro hydroelectric power plants, Komsomolsk on the Amur and all, all young builders of the first five-year plan, and it was the most difficult
    1. kit88
      kit88 29 October 2020 15: 13
      +8
      Yes you. This is not at all relevant now. Just look at what principles the state policy was built on!


      Just hair on end! belay
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 29 October 2020 15: 50
        0
        Comrade Kit, on the fig Astra your sarcasm? This romantic creature stands above all sarcasms.
      2. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 29 October 2020 16: 16
        -1
        I will not comb my hair. I don't want my wife to be jealous.
        I think that your sarcasm is out of place. We'd better remember the first Komsomol members. I don't want to offend anyone, but the Komsomol members of the 70s, and even more so in the 80s, cannot be compared with the first Komsomol members. This is heaven and earth
  • Sergei 23
    Sergei 23 29 October 2020 14: 48
    -2
    To whom to whom and the Greeks will not be sold for sure
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 29 October 2020 15: 59
    +1
    The United States may sell 20 of its latest fifth-generation F-35A Lightning II fighters to Greece.

    So how is the bankrupt country going to pay for them? Rather than? Olives? Anything of any value in Greece went under the hammer in the privatization turmoil after the default.
    Again on credit ...
  • zwlad
    zwlad 29 October 2020 17: 00
    0
    Why be afraid? They're invisible!
  • NF68
    NF68 29 October 2020 17: 13
    0
    The USA claimed that the F-35 was "unkillable" with the S-400. What then are they afraid of?
  • iouris
    iouris 29 October 2020 17: 57
    0
    Duc, he's invisible!
  • Oleg Olkha
    Oleg Olkha 29 October 2020 18: 06
    0
    Greece - "poor, poor" ... Greece is something where "everything is" when about weapons and appears when necessary, due to history, geography and debts that cannot be returned until the end of the century, therefore they give more and more (especially when the Greeks give birth to trouble-free about reparations for the occupation in WW2 and they have hundreds of billions or even trillions ...) What is for Germany a dozen or two billion euros so that the Greeks calm down for the next 5-10 years? Again, invaluable for the Germans warm seas and thousands of islands. By the way, according to the official. According to EU statistics, the "average cost" of a Greek household is higher than that of a German household ...
  • Lesorub
    Lesorub 29 October 2020 20: 19
    +1
    At the same time, the United States fears that during the transfer of the F-35 fighters to the Greek Air Force, Turkey will try to test the S-400s, previously acquired from Russia, on them - "test", aiming anti-aircraft missile systems at the fifth generation fighters.

    It would be a sin for Turkey not to test the F 35, it will be mutually interesting to both sides).