Military Review

Erdogan touched upon the interests of not only Russia, but also China in Central Asia

66

We are so used to a certain set of “important News”That they have completely stopped paying attention to what is happening in places where it is still quiet, where the struggle is being waged in offices, at joint lunches and dinners, on some political platforms that few people pay attention to. We make big eyes when suddenly our best friend sends us in a certain direction, while carefully performing the actions that his enemies ask him to do.


One example of this approach, I would call the actions of the President of Belarus. Remember how Lukashenka behaved before the start of the active phase of the protests? With what words did he water the “arrogant older brother”? And how the rhetoric changed when it really got hot. But as soon as the protests were localized, conversations about love and a single state stopped. For some reason, menacing words about syabras from Ukraine, the Baltic states, Poland were immediately forgotten ...

Why it happens? Why are our neighbors confident that they will live peacefully without us, but we cannot live without them? Why are they sure that "Russia should"? ..

Don't be afraid to delay, be afraid to stop (Chinese proverb)


While enthusiastically analyzing the activities of Turkish President Erdogan, his plans to create some kind of superstate of Turks living in different countries, we completely forget about one of the most serious players in Central Asia. We forget about the People's Republic of China. By the way, the Central Asian states have been named the zone of interests of the PRC.

Most modern readers who have not caught the era of the USSR are already completely unaware of the clashes that took place between the USSR and the PRC over the border territories. For example, even those who fought with the 40th Army in Afghanistan do not know the fact that this army was not intended at all to cover the border with Afghanistan. If they still talk about Damansky Island, then they no longer mention much more serious battles near the border village of Zhalanashkol, when a whole PLA unit entered Soviet territory.

It is difficult for a modern person to understand China's claims to neighboring states. Very often, historically, from our point of view, the territorial claims of the Chinese do not look indisputable. This is somewhat strange for me. Considering that most of Russia is Asia. The oriental mentality is distinguished by a peculiar understanding of their own lands.

Why are the Japanese so rested on the "northern territories"? Yes, simply because the islands belonged to Japan for some time. This is enough to demand their return. Why does China have claims? Exactly for the same reason. Once upon a time, the Chinese or the ancestors of the Chinese lived here. So these are Chinese lands. By the way, from the same series and our memories of the sold Alaska.

Sufficiently serious forces on the border, very serious engineering work on the border, as well as the determination of the Soviet leadership (recall, the Chinese unit was swept from Soviet soil in the Semipalatinsk region by the massive use of Grad rocket launchers) reassured the Chinese military and politicians. The question seemed to be closed. But the Chinese have a good memory.

Live in peace. Spring will come and the flowers will bloom themselves (Chinese proverb)


The Chinese waited for their spring ... in 1991. The collapse of the USSR, unexpectedly for them, made it possible to recall the claims. Moreover, the legal successor of the USSR, Russia, automatically lost almost half of the border with the PRC. The former republics of the Union, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, became full participants in the negotiations.

It is foolish to blame the Chinese for using the betrayal of their own country by the top of our leadership. The tiger waited until the elephant was tired and lay down to deliver the decisive blow. Everything is in a classic Chinese style. Moreover, the new states were not yet stable, the government was reformatted, which provided a unique opportunity to resolve border disputes with maximum benefit for themselves.

I specifically disclose the decision-making algorithm at that time. More precisely, its own version of this algorithm. The official explanation looked a little different. Beijing, alarmed by the events in the republics of the former USSR, has done a lot to prevent the emergence of border conflicts. Simply put, the Chinese did their best to preserve traditional friendly ties with the republics of the former USSR.

My version of events is indirectly confirmed by the fact with what speed Beijing recognized the new states. Suffice it to say that the PRC was one of the first to recognize the fact of the emergence of new states in Central Asia and already at the beginning of 1992 established diplomatic relations with them! And literally a couple of months later, Beijing begins separate negotiations with Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan.

This did not go unnoticed in Moscow. The Kremlin is also beginning to actively put pressure on Beijing in order to start negotiations in a common format (all the states bordering on China and the PRC). At this time, a civil war flares up in Tajikistan. In September 1992, a working group was formed in Minsk, the "4 + 1 formula", which included four republics of the former USSR and the PRC.

Very often questions arise about this particular group. Why did Beijing agree to Moscow's participation in the negotiations? Obviously, it is much easier to come to an agreement with the new governments, whose level of competence is an order of magnitude lower than that of Moscow officials. Consequently, it is possible to solve borderland problems with much better results. The answer is simple.

Without Moscow's participation, the agreements could have raised doubts. Simply because it is there that the originals of treaties of tsarist Russia and China, treaties of the USSR and China are kept. There are no such documents in the republics. That is why Beijing was forced to agree to a multilateral format of negotiations. So that after some time additional documents do not appear from the archives that cast doubt on the results of the negotiations.

Think better about food in this world, and not about the fact that there will be nothing to heat in the next world (Chinese proverb)


The negotiations between Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and China resulted in decisions about which it is not customary to talk much. Almost all the republics gave something to the Chinese and thus the conflicts, I think, for a while, are settled. Let's consider some of the results for the republics.

Kazakhstan. The country that has the longest, after Russia, of course, the border with the PRC - 1740 kilometers. Basically, the border was determined by the agreement of April 26, 1994. Only 944 square kilometers of Kazakh territory were controversial. This is the area of ​​the Sary-Chelda river and the Chagan-Obo and Baimurza passes. In 1999, Kazakhstan ratified an agreement on the disputed territories. 407 sq. km went to China, 537 sq. km remained with the Kazakhs.

It seems to be a wonderful result. Both sides have shown a willingness to compromise and an ability to negotiate. Only now ... There are nuances. The Kazakhs agreed to satisfy Beijing's request to liquidate the engineering and fortifications of the USSR in the border areas. But there was precisely a system of such structures that could calmly restrain the possible aggression of the PRC against the USSR.

Those who visited in Soviet times, for example, in the Khorgos district, which covered Alma-Ata, can assess the scale of Beijing's victory only in this regard. Kazakhstan actually took off its bulletproof vest and remained naked. Now Kazakhstan will not be able to defend its borders. The republic does not possess such powers.

In negotiations with Kyrgyzstan, Beijing faced a more serious adversary in the person of President Akayev. The republic nevertheless made some concessions to the territory, but in comparison with Kazakhstan they are rather insignificant. So, in the disputed zone of the Bedel area (2840 sq. Km), the PRC ceded 900 sq. Km. km. Of the territories near the Khan Tegri peak (450 sq. Km) - 161 sq. km and the Boz-Amir-Khojent section (20 hectares).

According to one version, the nationalists demolished Akayev precisely because of the loss of territories. They even menacingly demanded that Beijing reconsider the treaty several times. To which the “frightened” Chinese suggested revising their economic and social programs in relation to Kyrgyzstan. And then, according to the usual eastern scheme. All for peace, friendship and good neighborly relations.

Tajikistan did not avoid territorial losses either. A section of the border with the PRC (519 km) runs in the mountains. Therefore, the disputed territories are located in Gorno-Badakhshan. The issue was resolved by exchanging the disputed section near the Karzak Pass for approximately the same section near the Markansu River. But Chinese appetites have grown. Ultimately, Tajiks lost about 1000 sq. km of territory.

Readers may get the impression that Russia is the only country that was not defeated by China in the 90s and retained the status quo in relations with the PRC. Alas, I will disappoint. In April 1997, the most important treaty for China, "On the mutual reduction of armed forces in the border areas", was signed in Moscow. The agreement was signed under the “4 + 1 formula”.

According to this agreement, the countries undertake to keep equal groups of troops in the 100-kilometer demilitarization zone. Approximately 130 thousand people. This is the number of the Chinese group in the XUAR. Again, everything seems to be fair. And again, "but" ... 130 thousand Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan could have in total! In total!

Everything is prepared, only the east wind is missing (Chinese proverb)


In conclusion, it is worth returning to the dreams of the President of Turkey. Central Asia under the thumb of the Turks. A dream for the Turkish common people probably looks beautiful. Great Turan, Turkish Empire, great nation of Turks. About the same as sweet memories of the Commonwealth for the Poles or the Roman Empire for the Italians. For internal use, the idea is great.

Central Asia has been and will be the zone of interests of two powerful states: Russia and China. Only these countries at the moment can not only make claims, but also justify them with a confident punch on the table. All stories about the powerful Turkish army, which is a regional power, are designed for little understanding people. Best of all, our soldiers and officers in Syria or Israeli soldiers and officers, for example, will tell about the strength of the Turks. A common oriental peacock trying to sing like a nightingale.

For Erdogan, the eastern tiger and the Russian bear are equally dangerous. Both animals are quite safe as long as they are fed and not irritated. So far, no one claims to their territory. But if someone, regardless of the strength, aggressiveness and danger of this someone, crosses the line, there will be no salvation. Neither tiger nor bear leave enemies alive. Or they die themselves. In the triangle "Turkey, China, Russia" the first two options do not have to win.

There is only one thing left. Find out how the tiger and the bear will divide the territory. And how much will they tolerate the antics of a young wolf cub in Nagorno-Karabakh and Syria. The wolf cub clearly decided that his teeth were sharper than tiger's fangs, and the lazy bear was lazy and old. Only after all, a tiger is capable of killing an Indian elephant or a female Indian rhino and does it alone.

And the bear ... As one bear hunter from a remote taiga village in the Krasnoyarsk Territory once said to me: “If a bear is planning to eat you, then he will definitely eat you”. A fat good-natured bear, without much straining, catches up with a horse. And, as it seems to me, if elephants lived in the taiga, then they would also be the prey of bears. At least there is no beast in the taiga that bears are afraid of. That is why the local aborigines call the bear the owner.
Author:
Photos used:
youtube.com, Russia 24 (video frame)
66 comments
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  1. Alien From
    Alien From 29 October 2020 10: 04
    +3
    It's good that he has no nuclear weapons. He could have done something wrong ...
    1. Ilya-spb
      Ilya-spb 29 October 2020 10: 07
      -2
      And it won't. But on the Turkish fez, he will soon get it.
      1. Greenwood
        Greenwood 29 October 2020 10: 22
        +9
        Quote: Ilya-spb
        But on the Turkish fez, he will soon get it.
        From whom for example? lol
        1. NDR-791
          NDR-791 29 October 2020 10: 35
          +5
          And the Chinese are in no hurry, however, as always. While they are waiting, what is there on the other side of the ball will be decided. Then they will wait for something else. And there you look, the Sultan will break his leg ... in three places. So the corpse of the enemy will float by fellow And also in the article there are very few maps because very few people have been to URE Alma-Ata, and few have heard about the rest.
          1. polk26l
            polk26l 29 October 2020 10: 41
            0
            And if you're interested, find it! You can find everything on the Internet !!!
            1. NDR-791
              NDR-791 29 October 2020 10: 44
              +1
              I'm not talking about what I can or cannot. I mean that the work looks unfinished. You must respect your work and treat it accordingly. However, this is information for the author.
          2. Machito
            Machito 29 October 2020 11: 40
            +1
            Are the Chinese in no hurry? How many years has China had one of the highest GDP growth rates in the world? How many warships has China built? China is developing at an accelerated pace and is in no hurry with external aggression, preferring soft power, advancing its expansion in almost all directions and continents.
            1. NDR-791
              NDR-791 29 October 2020 11: 43
              +1
              and is not in a hurry with external aggression
              Actually, I'm talking about this when I say that China is in no hurry to interfere by force
            2. EvilLion
              EvilLion 30 October 2020 08: 37
              0
              Growth is falling, developed countries that have built factories in China have begun to spread rot. Energetically, China is not self-sufficient, unlike the United States and Russia.
          3. ZEMCH
            ZEMCH 30 October 2020 16: 52
            +1
            Quote: NDR-791
            And also in the article there are very few maps because very few people have been to URE Alma-Ata, and few have heard about the rest.

            If they still talk about Damansky Island, then they no longer mention much more serious battles near the border village of Zhalanashkol, when a whole PLA unit entered Soviet territory.

            Zhalanashkol was given by Kazakhstan to China. There is now a monument to the fallen Chinese
        2. Ilya-spb
          Ilya-spb 29 October 2020 11: 08
          -3
          From our country. From Russia.
          1. Greenwood
            Greenwood 29 October 2020 11: 50
            0
            Doubtful. Russia will not spoil relations with Erdogan, especially at a time when he has such a hassle with the United States and Europe and there is an opportunity to drag him to more productive and pragmatic relations, plus sell him some weapons.
        3. cniza
          cniza 29 October 2020 15: 06
          +2
          Quote: Greenwood
          Quote: Ilya-spb
          But on the Turkish fez, he will soon get it.
          From whom for example? lol


          It seems that primarily from their military ...
      2. Alien From
        Alien From 29 October 2020 10: 52
        0
        Most likely from mattresses or Iran, China is also not happy.
  2. Egoza
    Egoza 29 October 2020 10: 10
    0
    All stories about the powerful Turkish army, which is a regional power, are designed for little understanding people

    Ukraine also constantly talks about a powerful army. What's the point? Soon they will sing again like in the opera "Zaporozhets beyond the Danube" - "Now I am a Turk, not a Cossack." The "strongest" army will not help Erdogan (as well as Ukraine) if Russia and China really send him to look for Kuzkin's mother.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 29 October 2020 10: 18
      0
      Quote: Egoza
      will sing like in the opera "Zaporozhets beyond the Danube" - "Now I am a Turk, not a Cossack"


      No, well, the lead singer (and the accompanist on the piano lol ), they have a noble yes .

      So ... Go ahead, Turkish subjects, Cossacks, or whatever in Turkish? Ileriye ?

      You, the Outskirts of Turkomans, don't care what to drag, what to drag ...

  3. New Year day
    New Year day 29 October 2020 10: 28
    0
    ... Only these countries at the moment can not only make claims, but also substantiate them with a confident punch on the table.

    I would like to see it, but for now ...
    China is quietly conquering territories, just look at its role in Kazakhstan and ours.
    how the tiger and the bear will divide the territory.

    laughing Like Ukraine, like Belarus, like the Caucasus. Everything goes on a knurled one
    "If the bear is planning to eat you, then he will definitely eat you."

    on the hunt, anything can happen
  4. Gardamir
    Gardamir 29 October 2020 10: 34
    10
    The author painted beautifully. Crocodiles, hippos, monkeys, sperm whales and green papugaai. What does this menagerie have to do with it? All authors and commentators forget what kind of system we have and what kind of power. Tell the Kremlin should it quarrel with Erdogan? Or else I will ask whether the interests of Russia and the interests of the Kremlin coincide?
    1. times
      times 29 October 2020 11: 06
      18
      Quote: Gardamir
      Do the interests of Russia and the interests of the Kremlin coincide?

      Agree yes But the opinion of the author coincides with the opinion of the Kremlin.
    2. Doccor18
      Doccor18 29 October 2020 11: 43
      +8
      Do the interests of Russia and the interests of the Kremlin coincide?



      The most correct question.
      Ukraine was given to the camp of "our partners", Moldova will slowly but surely reach the status of the Romanian region, Azerbaijan is looking towards Turkey, and Georgia and Armenia are looking over the ocean ...
      The Baltic countries are loyal brothers of NATO, and the Central Asian powers are moving away from Russia every year, falling into the strong debt stranglehold of the "Eastern partner" ...
      Question: "And where is the competent policy towards the former republics of the Union?"
      After all, this is our area of ​​responsibility, these are our borders, this is the country's security belt. Why is it so neglected? Where are our allies? Where? Why do millions of Azerbaijanis trade in the markets of Russia, while Turks are called brothers? Religion? Yes, but it's not just about Islam. Back in 1988, I had my best friend - an Azerbaijani. Then he called me brother, and I called him ... But those days have passed. We haven’t talked like that for 15 years. For some reason he doesn't answer ...
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 30 October 2020 11: 40
        -3
        If you are so smart, tell me, what should be the policy towards those who reject any attempts to establish mutually beneficial cooperation, but are ready to break into a cake for the sake of promises from the West that will never be fulfilled?
  5. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 29 October 2020 10: 50
    +1
    China is a dragon, not a tiger.
    1. icant007
      icant007 29 October 2020 11: 10
      0
      Quote: Pessimist22
      China is a dragon, not a tiger.


      Depends on school) South or North fist)

      Maybe a crane, a panda, a turtle, in the end, a drunken style)))
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 29 October 2020 12: 27
        -1
        Quote: icant007
        Depends on school) South or North fist)

        Whatever school is, but a rooster will remain a rooster, but not a tiger.
        1. icant007
          icant007 29 October 2020 12: 34
          -1
          And who is our rooster? )
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 29 October 2020 12: 52
            +2
            Quote: icant007
            And who is our rooster?
            In China, the Rooster is considered the main symbol of the Yang element. The red rooster is the original form of the Sun and protects from fire, the white rooster protects from spirits.
            1. icant007
              icant007 29 October 2020 13: 32
              0
              Quote: tihonmarine
              In China, the Rooster is considered the main symbol of the Yang element. The red rooster is the original form of the Sun and protects from fire, the white rooster protects from spirits.


              Your knowledge is impressive) I can only say "Wow!"
              1. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 29 October 2020 14: 58
                +2
                Quote: icant007
                Your knowledge is impressive) I can only say "Wow!"

                Yes, where I was born and lived, there were Chinese streets in the villages, many children went to Russian schools. From childhood I remember something, my great-grandfather told me a lot, he built the CER in his time, and he made sense in Chinese.
          2. ALARI
            ALARI 29 October 2020 13: 57
            +2
            The rooster is the symbol of the Gauls. This means France.
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 29 October 2020 15: 00
              +2
              Quote: ALARI
              The rooster is the symbol of the Gauls. This means France.

              Only when China was China did the French still climb trees.
              1. ALARI
                ALARI 29 October 2020 15: 11
                0
                Let me disagree with you. Both the Gauls and the Han (not the Chinese) descended from a single ancestor and could not be at the same time some people, other primates. And about such an antiquity of China, as we know it from the Chinese themselves, and this is an unreliable source (bias).
                1. tihonmarine
                  tihonmarine 29 October 2020 16: 01
                  0
                  Quote: ALARI
                  And about such antiquity of China, as we know it from the Chinese themselves, and this is an unreliable source

                  Well, even so there is written evidence, at that time they did not lie yet. Chinese writing, being one of the oldest on earth, it has more than three and a half millennia, so we will believe, because others did not have this either.
                  1. ALARI
                    ALARI 29 October 2020 16: 34
                    0
                    Let's believe. But I will insert a replica of 3 thousand. years ago, the peoples inhabiting the territory of modern China and having a written language to the Chinese had nothing to do with it. Excavation and study of the remains show that the genotype does not converge. There was an article about the Kulikovo battle, there are several versions of how and where it happened. Only 640 years old, and even then the sources are unreliable. And 3000 years ago, only the participants in those events knew what. The manuscripts do not burn, but they can be rewritten.
                    1. tihonmarine
                      tihonmarine 29 October 2020 17: 01
                      0
                      Quote: ALARI
                      And 3000 years ago, only the participants in those events knew what. Manuscripts do not burn, but they can be rewritten.

                      Not the Chinese will not do this, their writing style was different at that time, the hieroglyphs were the same, but the writing manners were different, it is difficult to forge.
                      And there is something that you want to believe. And whatever they wrote, the main thing was that they were Chinese, and Gauls, Franks and all of us, no one knows who and where we were then.
                  2. Ergi73
                    Ergi73 30 October 2020 08: 08
                    0
                    It was just that others destroyed their history, or it was destroyed by the conquerors
  6. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 29 October 2020 10: 58
    +2
    That is why the local aborigines call the bear the owner.
    "Announce the entire list, pzhzhalusta" (c) aborigines .. Aborigines, really in the Commonwealth of Independent States cannot and do not work, and the Bear does not influence this in any way ..
  7. set of sets
    set of sets 29 October 2020 11: 03
    -1
    This is geopolitics.
    An independent, albeit capricious, Turkey is more profitable than Turkey under the US cap. And this is beneficial for both China and Russia.
    And the more Erdogan feels stronger and more confident, the further he will move away from NATO and the United States.
    But the result will be the same. When he feels omnipotent, then everyone will want to slam him (including the United States). And in the end they will slam.
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 29 October 2020 11: 59
      +3
      Quote: set of sets
      And in the end they will slam.
      How? Even Iran and the DPRK have still not been slammed. They live under sanctions.
      1. set of sets
        set of sets 29 October 2020 12: 33
        0
        Iran and the DPRK do not have such talents, and even more so the desire to spoil all, without exception, the powers that be.
        1. Greenwood
          Greenwood 29 October 2020 14: 02
          +2
          Quote: set of sets
          Iran and the DPRK do not have such talents, much less desire
          Let's start with the fact that they have no purely technical capability and strength. And Turkey is one of the most powerful NATO countries with corresponding ambitions.
          1. set of sets
            set of sets 29 October 2020 14: 35
            -2
            “And Turkey is one of the most powerful NATO countries with corresponding ambitions.

            These ambitions will destroy her. One of the most powerful NATO countries, but not the world. There are countries in the world that are much more powerful.


            As the saying goes, "Every cricket know your six"
      2. icant007
        icant007 29 October 2020 12: 36
        -1
        The DPRK has China, and Iran has Russia.
        1. Greenwood
          Greenwood 29 October 2020 14: 01
          +1
          Quote: icant007
          The DPRK has China
          Big mistake.
          Quote: icant007
          Iran has Russia
          Even more.
          1. icant007
            icant007 29 October 2020 14: 08
            -1
            Quote: Greenwood
            Quote: icant007
            The DPRK has China
            Big mistake.
            Quote: icant007
            Iran has Russia
            Even more.


            Time will tell
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 29 October 2020 12: 25
      0
      Quote: set of sets
      And the more Erdogan feels stronger and more confident, the further he will move away from NATO and the United States.

      Unless, of course, it starts to play and "ramsy does not beguiled."
  8. Victorio
    Victorio 29 October 2020 11: 08
    0
    Don't be afraid to delay, be afraid to stop (Chinese proverb)
    ===
    ) the difference would only be correctly defined
  9. iouris
    iouris 29 October 2020 11: 18
    -1
    About China is not necessary. Let him figure it out on his own "silk road". In any case, China will not help, and will sell drones to the Turks.
  10. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 29 October 2020 12: 23
    +1
    If they are still talking about Damansky Island, then about much more serious battles near the border village of Zhalanashkol
    More precisely, the battle at Lake Zhalanashkol, in the area of ​​the Dzhungar Gate. Our losses are two killed, 15 wounded, Chinese 19 killed, 3 prisoners (two later died). Arrogance with the Chinese knocked down for a long time.
    1. ZEMCH
      ZEMCH 30 October 2020 17: 01
      +2
      Quote: tihonmarine
      The arrogance with the Chinese was shot down for a long time.

      But only Kazakhstan gave these territories to China! And a monument there now stands to the dead Chinese
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 30 October 2020 20: 34
        +1
        Quote: ZEMCH
        But only Kazakhstan gave these territories to China! And a monument there now stands to the dead Chinese

        But not to our border guards.
        1. ZEMCH
          ZEMCH 30 October 2020 22: 59
          +1
          Quote: tihonmarine
          But not to our border guards.

          That is how
  11. Humpty
    Humpty 29 October 2020 12: 27
    +1
    Auto RU. Alexander on Kyrgyzstan's territorial concessions to China You used an untrustworthy source in this particular case. They are incomplete and partially erroneous. They also gave away the Dzhangi-Jer gorge, which is about 170 km2. In the area of ​​Bedel lane, the border did not change. Almost 900 km2 were given much to the west.
    I tried more than once to find official data on the area of ​​the territory of Kyrgyzstan and, you know, failed. Wikipedia says something overstated by a couple of thousand km2.
    1. domokl
      29 October 2020 13: 16
      -2
      Do you mean plots in the area of ​​the Uzengyu-Kuush water intake (Bedel pass) and near Khan Tengri? So it was there that there were the most violent disputes. Therefore, these plots were not included in the 96 agreement. As far as I remember, areas with a special status, they were called ... Even after signing additional. agreements and talk of Chinese dishonesty continued.
      In my opinion, President Bakiyev completely closed the issue in 2006 during his visit to the PRC. The declaration was signed jointly with Hu Jintao. Therefore, it is quite possible that there are some secret protocols and other documents "not for everyone."
      The comment is accepted. By the way, Wikipedia is a very dangerous pseudo source. I do not recommend using it.
      1. Humpty
        Humpty 29 October 2020 15: 47
        +1
        Quote: domokl
        By the way, Wikipedia is a very dangerous pseudo source. I do not recommend using it.

        Thanks, I know. Google maps can be weird too.
        The Bedel pass is located significantly to the east of the section near the Uzengi-Gush river and the adjacent part of the Kokshal ridge, which were given to China. Dzhangi-Jer was given away on the sly. I have never heard this to be discussed and indignant. The upper reaches of the Inylchek glacier to the south and east of the Khan are also given to China. There, the dispute arose essentially from the carelessness committed by geographers in the 19th century. Two
        different mountains were considered one. The Chinese have pushed their version.
        1. ZEMCH
          ZEMCH 30 October 2020 17: 03
          +2
          Quote: Humpty
          There, the dispute arose essentially from the carelessness committed by geographers in the 19th century. Two
          different mountains were considered one. The Chinese have pushed their version.

          I agree with you good
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 31 October 2020 00: 26
        0
        Quote: domokl
        The comment is accepted. By the way, Wikipedia is a very dangerous pseudo source. I do not recommend using it.

        Very doubtful.
  12. evgen1221
    evgen1221 29 October 2020 13: 32
    0
    And what a nafig to the conflict in Karabakh the Chinese are being dragged, they did not lie nearby. As did the Turks. Azerbaijan for oil tanks bought weapons from everyone who could and had enough money, while the attack on Karabakh was planned 10 years ago and was being prepared for it. What does the Turks have to do with whose drones are doing well for their price, and the Chinese who do not exist at all.? The war is purely limyntrofov-in a way that does not affect big daddies. What was it all about? It would be better about idiocy with covid or what to do with the production of generals and would write below. By God, there will be more benefits.
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 30 October 2020 15: 38
      0
      Quote: evgen1221
      And what a nafig to the conflict in Karabakh the Chinese are being dragged, they did not lie nearby. As did the Turks. Azerbaijan for oil tanks bought weapons from everyone who could and had enough money, while the attack on Karabakh was planned 10 years ago and was being prepared for it. What does the Turks have to do with whose drones are doing well for their price, and the Chinese who do not exist at all.? The war is purely limyntrofov-in a way that does not affect big daddies. What was it all about? It would be better about idiocy with covid or what to do with the production of generals and would write below. By God, there will be more benefits.

      Before writing this, it is advisable to read the article sometimes. laughing
  13. cniza
    cniza 29 October 2020 13: 54
    -2
    And how much will they tolerate the antics of a young wolf cub in Nagorno-Karabakh and Syria.


    He has no memory left, and he does not listen to his ancestors:

  14. Lynx2000
    Lynx2000 30 October 2020 02: 05
    0
    Find out how the tiger and the bear will divide the territory. And how much will they tolerate the antics of a young wolf cub in Nagorno-Karabakh and Syria. The wolf cub clearly decided that his teeth were sharper than tiger's fangs, and the lazy bear was lazy and old. Only after all, a tiger is able to kill an Indian elephant or a female Indian rhino and does it alone.

    And the bear ... As one bear hunter from a remote taiga village in the Krasnoyarsk Territory once said to me: “If a bear is planning to eat you, then he will definitely eat you”. A fat good-natured bear, without much straining, catches up with a horse. And, as it seems to me, if elephants lived in the taiga, then they would also be the prey of bears. At least there is no beast in the taiga that bears are afraid of. That is why the local aborigines call the bear the owner.

    recourse
    The tiger is of course an animal revered by the Chinese, but still the Chinese consider themselves children of the dragon. According to their beliefs, he is the supreme leader of their sacred animals, which means that the tiger obeys the dragon.
    Bears are like people too, they are curious, cowardly, aggressive. I thought about it, I would definitely eat it, "if you offend" - eat it, first sprinkle it with twigs ... This analogy is not applicable to Russia at the present time. But the bear bypasses the wild boar.

    Why would China divide territories when it is possible to freely extract raw materials in the neighboring states?
  15. flicker
    flicker 30 October 2020 14: 16
    0
    And how much will they tolerate the antics of a young wolf cub in Nagorno-Karabakh and Syria. The wolf cub clearly decided that his teeth were sharper.
    Duc, it was not he who decided.
    The Anglo-Saxons decided it for him.
    They did not need secular Turkey, they needed a belligerent Turkey, and for the war it must be motivated (remember how cool it was before), arm (almost all the weapons are imported or half of imported parts) - hence the Bayraktars, which were the Turkish army is not needed, and then, starting in 2016 (from that moment on, imported components for the future successful drone went in a huge jamb, just fell on Turkey) as soon as the drone designer became Erdogan's son-in-law (i.e., he became close to the ear of the head of Turkey), Bayraktars transformed.
    They say, forward the Turks, forward to their "glorious great neo-Ottoman future."
    Imported Bayraktars, under GPS navigation, will show you the way.
    True, imported Bayraktars can be deflated, and the GPS is disabled.
    How then to move to the great Turan?
    Who will light the road, GLONASS?
    ---
    This whole Turan is a chimera.
    ---
    Present-day Turkey with "the great Turan" is a PROJECT of the Anglo-Saxons, i.e. tool in the hands of the Anglo-Saxons.
    The tool will fulfill its function and be thrown into the trash.
    If some Turk thinks that he can outwit the Anglo-Saxon, take advantage of the support of this project, build muscle, and then send the Anglo-Saxons, then even if he does not dream. Their cunning is at a glance, and the Anglo-Saxons will destroy the Turks and their allies with special cynicism.
    ---
    Erodogan, the headless horseman (which is why the Anglo-Saxons appointed him to head Turkey), gallops to the great Turan. And so as not to get lost on this way, they assigned Hakan Fidan, a man through whom the Anglo-Saxons control the headless horseman.
    ---
    While galloping in the right direction for the Anglo-Saxons.
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 30 October 2020 15: 48
      0
      Quote: flicker
      arm (almost all weapons are imported or half of imported parts) - hence the Bayraktars, which for a very long time were not needed by the Turkish army, and then starting in 2016 (from that moment on, imported components for the future successful drone went in a huge jamb, just fell on Turkey) as soon as the drone designer became Erdogan's son-in-law (that is, he became close to the ear of the head of Turkey), the Bayraktars were transformed.
      They say, forward the Turks, forward to their "glorious great neo-Ottoman future."
      Imported Bayraktars, under GPS navigation, will show you the way.
      True, imported Bayraktars can be deflated, and GPS is disabled

      By the way, here is a curious video on this subject:
  16. Selevc
    Selevc 30 October 2020 16: 32
    0
    In conclusion, it is worth returning to the dreams of the President of Turkey. Central Asia under the thumb of the Turks. A dream for the Turkish common people probably looks beautiful.
    Why are you sure that this is a dream ??? Today is a dream - tomorrow is a plan - the day after tomorrow is reality !!! Even the day before yesterday (by historical standards) Turkey was in political chaos, yesterday, in the 80s, Turkey was strong with its chewing gum and leather jackets, today Turkey is the world leader in the field of arms and so far wins in local conflicts - and tomorrow Turkey may well stand in the head of the block of Muslim countries - why not ???
    If they have taken the first three steps in geopolitics, then there is a high probability that they will take the fourth and fifth steps !!!
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 30 October 2020 17: 47
      0
      Quote: Selevc
      Why are you sure that this is a dream ??? Today is a dream - tomorrow is a plan - the day after tomorrow is reality !!! The day before yesterday (by historical standards) Turkey was in political chaos, yesterday, in the 80s, Turkey was strong with its chewing gum and leather jackets, today Turkey is the world leader in the field of arms and so far wins in local conflicts - and tomorrow Turkey may well stand in the head of the block of Muslim countries - why not ???
      If they have taken the first three steps in geopolitics, then there is a high probability that they will take the fourth and fifth steps !!!

      Apparently because you absolutely do not understand either geography, or geopolitics, or economics, or in countries representing Islam. request
  17. Misha Smirnov_2
    Misha Smirnov_2 4 November 2020 14: 11
    -1
    Very sensible article ...
    China can participate ....

    The Ottoman Empire, it is no coincidence that the "axis" countries Germany Japan Turkey.
    Probably they want to beat the Russian Federation in Armenia for the construction of a second flow to Germany ... the second flow to Germany is not profitable for the Russian Federation ...

    I think the Russian Federation diligently diligently disarmed the Caucasus in vain. Today it is better to supply weapons ..... Then the Armenians will fight back quickly.
    1. Drago
      Drago 5 November 2020 17: 48
      0
      There is no money to arm them, and you can even get rid of it.
      on the Adventure topic about Repellent Blackshark.