Military Review

Air defense work: Turkish-made Bayraktar-TB2 drones fall more often in Karabakh

174
Air defense work: Turkish-made Bayraktar-TB2 drones fall more often in Karabakh

Hostilities continue in Nagorno-Karabakh. The press service of the Ministry of Defense of the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic reports that another Turkish-made Bayraktar drone was shot down by an air defense crew of the Artsakh (NKR) army.


There are video and photographic materials showing that the Bayraktar-TB2 attack drone of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces was shot down over the combat zone.

In this regard, it can be stated that foreign-made drones used by the Azerbaijani side of the conflict in the battle zone began to fall significantly more often than it was in the first days of the new phase of the armed conflict. This may indicate a clearer structure of the air defense system of one of the parties.

The downed Turkish-made drone, or rather what was left of it, was delivered to the NKR military base. It can be assumed that the downed Bayraktars are being thoroughly analyzed, including to identify vulnerabilities. Probably, a good opportunity has been obtained to study the technologies used by Turkish unmanned vehicles.


It is quite obvious that the more effective the NKR air defense system is, the less danger drones will pose, which have been causing significant damage to manpower and equipment since the beginning of the conflict.
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the NKR
174 comments
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  1. Commissar77
    Commissar77 23 October 2020 06: 27 New
    40
    According to the logic of the development of weapons and military equipment, a drone cannot be fundamentally invulnerable and omnipotent. They are good as a tool for reducing losses, but they were knocked down, knocked down and will be knocked down. However, in order to shoot them down, an echeloned missile defense system is needed, which the Armenians do not have. Therefore, we see videos in which the Armenian forces will be shot as in a computer game. The morale of the defenders drops. I think it's worth losing a few drones.
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 23 October 2020 06: 58 New
      18
      layered missile defense

      probably meant air defense. After all, TB2 is not a ballistic rocket.
      1. Commissar77
        Commissar77 23 October 2020 07: 03 New
        10
        Yes, air defense, of course, thanks for the clarification, I haven't woken up yet
        1. neri73-r
          neri73-r 23 October 2020 08: 37 New
          11
          They say (write) that our electronic warfare was dragged in and a drone fall began. Apparently, the task is to turn the conflict into a protracted one (without defeating one of the parties) and to force the parties to negotiate.
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 23 October 2020 09: 37 New
            13
            It looks like it was not in vain that the IL - 76 flew to Gyumri. Brought "nishtyakov" for the Turks))))
            1. genisis
              genisis 23 October 2020 11: 24 New
              +2
              They brought nothing new.
              Wasps, Arrows.
              Yesterday the Anna-News reportage was also released
              1. Alexander Kopychev
                Alexander Kopychev 23 October 2020 12: 03 New
                +3
                Here, all sorts of "Top Secret" are directly honestly and openly disclosed.
              2. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 23 October 2020 12: 23 New
                10
                Yesterday they said that "wasp" and "arrow" are absolutely useless against UAVs. And today "bayraktars" began to fall sharply. Any suspicious "wasps"? Maybe these are the wrong "wasps" and they make the wrong honey?))))
                1. Nasdaq
                  Nasdaq 23 October 2020 13: 03 New
                  +5
                  Maybe in Russia they are waiting for samples of such technology to study. Soon the remains will be in Russia, if not already there.
                  After all, bayraktars fly not only in Karabakh. They should be "slowed down" in Syria and Libya
                  Here are the allies in the CSTO toss in material for study.
                  As they say: you to me, I to you.
                2. Alexey G
                  Alexey G 23 October 2020 15: 50 New
                  +4
                  Yes, I wrote about this that the Wasp can be got from the mountain, but they taught me the minuses !!!
              3. Cympak
                Cympak 23 October 2020 14: 54 New
                +2
                Most likely MANPADS "Verba", where the seeker allows you to capture UAVs
                1. genisis
                  genisis 23 October 2020 16: 06 New
                  +2
                  In the screenshot from the video, in my opinion, Needle

                  Here is another video from another sector of the front.

                  And here, it seems, is really Verba
                2. Alexey G
                  Alexey G 23 October 2020 16: 16 New
                  +2
                  Well, who said that a drone cannot be shot down by the Wasp in principle?
              4. Alexey G
                Alexey G 23 October 2020 15: 49 New
                +1
                Well, they showed you everything ...
              5. Alexey Bobrin
                Alexey Bobrin 24 October 2020 08: 35 New
                0
                at least they gave interviews at a distance from the object!))
            2. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 23 October 2020 11: 50 New
              +2
              Quote: TermNachTER
              It looks like it was not in vain that the IL - 76 flew to Gyumri. Brought "nishtyakov" for the Turks))))

              Oh, these fairy tales ... Oh, these storytellers ...!
            3. Herman 4223
              Herman 4223 23 October 2020 15: 10 New
              +1
              Or for our soldiers to eat, because our base needs supplies. There should be something to arrive periodically.
              1. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 23 October 2020 18: 26 New
                +3
                Carrying groceries by plane? Have you tried to buy in Armenia?)))
                1. Herman 4223
                  Herman 4223 23 October 2020 21: 39 New
                  +1
                  Well, I personally have not tried it, it is cheaper for me in a nearby store. As for the plane, I made an alternative assumption.
                  1. TermNachTer
                    TermNachTer 23 October 2020 22: 53 New
                    +1
                    I did not mean you personally, but the RF Ministry of Defense.
                    1. Herman 4223
                      Herman 4223 23 October 2020 23: 20 New
                      0
                      I'm just not sure that our Ministry of Defense is helping anyone at the moment. I'm more interested in how the supply of Azerbaijan is going? Unmanned aerial vehicles are certainly good, but what about the rest?
                      What is their stock of artillery ammunition, for example? Georgia closed the border for supplies, Russia and Iran are vryatli, Turkey has a border only with Nakhichevan and with Soviet / Russian-style shells for howitzers and cannons, Turkey has a hard time for hail.
                      How long will Azerbaijan have reserves?
                      1. TermNachTer
                        TermNachTer 23 October 2020 23: 30 New
                        +1
                        Well, they were preparing for the war, so they created some kind of reserve. Again, they could have bought in Banderland or in eastern Geyrop. Although it is clear that the warehouses are not bottomless and the resource of the trunks is not endless.
                      2. OgnennyiKotik
                        OgnennyiKotik 23 October 2020 23: 36 New
                        0
                        There is a whole Central Asia on the other side of the lake. There will be enough reserves for several dozen Karabakhs and there will be more. The storage must be good, the climate is dry. And production is not a problem.
                      3. memmed memmed
                        memmed memmed 24 October 2020 15: 25 New
                        0
                        We have enough supplies, plus we buy weapons from Israel and Turkey. Then since 2005, the MINISTRY OF DEFENSE INDUSTRY was created. Several factories have been overhauled since the times of the USSR, several have been rebuilt. They all work for the 3rd shift.
            4. venik
              venik 23 October 2020 18: 27 New
              +2
              Quote: TermNachTER
              It looks like it was not in vain that the IL - 76 flew to Gyumri. Brought "nishtyakov" for the Turks))))

              ========
              Yes on the blog bmpt leaked information that in July there were 7 flights through Iran - allegedly delivered 280 tons of cargo (mainly the electronic warfare systems "Krasukha", "Avtobaza-M", "Repilent", repeaters and flowing and flowing ...). Perhaps only now they have mastered ... If, of course, this information can be trusted ... request
              1. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 23 October 2020 22: 55 New
                +1
                I think that in July it was possible to fly straight. After the beginning, Georgia began to do bad things. Although, considering that Georgia is being supported by Turkey, it is not surprising.
                1. venik
                  venik 25 October 2020 10: 51 New
                  0
                  Quote: TermNachTER
                  I think it was possible to fly straight in July. After the beginning, Georgia began to do bad things.

                  Alas! according to the same source, Tbilisi did not let the military transport boards pass. I had to fly in a roundabout way - along the route Rostov - Minvody - Aktau-Turkmenbashi - Nowsher - Rasht - Meghri - Yerevan.
                  1. TermNachTer
                    TermNachTer 25 October 2020 11: 31 New
                    0
                    Maybe it's time to impose an embargo on tangerines. Although I have always liked Abkhazian - sweet and sour.
              2. Ivan Ivanov_6
                Ivan Ivanov_6 24 October 2020 20: 07 New
                -1
                This is very good, the more you bring in, the more you burn!
          2. lucul
            lucul 23 October 2020 10: 53 New
            16
            They say (write) that our electronic warfare was dragged in and a drone fall began.

            What is it? There were a bunch of articles yesterday about the uselessness of air defense against UAVs))))
            And all, in the comments, they strenuously proved the superiority of drones over air defense. 50 minuses snapped off yesterday proving the opposite.
            And today - a surprise for the UAV adepts)))
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 23 October 2020 11: 24 New
              0
              "And today - a surprise for the UAV adepts" Yes, a surprise for a couple of Bayraktar-TB2, what is the "achievement" of the Armenian air defense when before that these drones destroyed and disabled dozens of units of Armenian equipment for 23 days and hundreds more personnel were killed and wounded.
              1. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 23 October 2020 12: 27 New
                +3
                When they were not shot down at all, and then 2 days before, this is already a reason to think. As for tens and hundreds, we will talk later, when we find out the real losses. Tales from "Baku Beobakhter" or "Yerevan Times" are fairy tales and nothing more.
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 23 October 2020 16: 17 New
                  0
                  "Baku Beobakhter" or "Yerevan Times" are fairy tales and nothing more. Yes, yes, yes - these "storytellers" will close the main corridor and count the kirdyk to all the Armenian troops in Karabakh, they will be able to supply their units only along the northern route, and even that will soon be shot if it is not already shot by the artillery of Azerbaijan. And the Azerbaijanis have nothing to think about, apart from Turkish drones, they have drones from Israel and Spayka with a launch range of 25 kilometers, alas, the entire air defense system of Karabakh is doomed to disappear completely and no two shot down drummers will fix the situation of the Armenians.
                  1. TermNachTer
                    TermNachTer 23 October 2020 18: 04 New
                    +5
                    When will it be closed? The fighting has been going on for a month now. If in the north we made at least a couple of steps in the right direction, then in the south we went and hung flags in the villages that nobody needs. So, the overlap is still very far away and there are no distinct prospects in the near foreseeable future. Soon snow will fall in the mountains, frosts will hit - the offensive will be postponed until warm.
            2. Incvizitor
              Incvizitor 23 October 2020 12: 40 New
              +3
              In Syria, the Turks were washed from the UAV, but the UAV adherents did not understand anything even then.
            3. Professor
              Professor 23 October 2020 15: 55 New
              -3
              Quote: lucul
              They say (write) that our electronic warfare was dragged in and a drone fall began.

              What is it? There were a bunch of articles yesterday about the uselessness of air defense against UAVs))))
              And all, in the comments, they strenuously proved the superiority of drones over air defense. 50 minuses snapped off yesterday proving the opposite.
              And today - a surprise for the UAV adepts)))

              Wow ... 2-3 drones were shot down (why weren't the pilots of the prisoners shown? wink ) and the air defense has already become effective. Drones have done their job, are doing and will do. While the Armenians shoot down one attack drone, he will have time to burn a bunch of equipment and bury an even larger pile of personnel. I am generally silent about loitering ammunition. Their task is to perish. On the other hand, the Armenian ZPKs did an excellent job with their task - they intercepted Azerbaijani missiles with a ram.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 23 October 2020 20: 42 New
                +3
                Quote: Professor
                Shot down 2-3 drones (why pilots of prisoners were not shown

                Do drones have them?
                1. Professor
                  Professor 24 October 2020 07: 43 New
                  0
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Quote: Professor
                  Shot down 2-3 drones (why pilots of prisoners were not shown

                  Do drones have them?

                  If the Armenians report about dozens of downed helicopters and airplanes, then the downed drones will soon have captured pilots.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 24 October 2020 07: 57 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Professor
                    If Armenians report dozens of downed helicopters and planes

                    Do you think that Azerbaijan has no losses?
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 24 October 2020 08: 06 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      Quote: Professor
                      If Armenians report dozens of downed helicopters and planes

                      Do you think that Azerbaijan has no losses?

                      Of course there is, but in planes and helicopters, as Armenians report. There already the count in tanks went under 1000. Circus.
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 24 October 2020 10: 15 New
                        0
                        Quote: Professor
                        There, the count in tanks went under 1000.

                        Smaller, actually.
                        Quote: Professor
                        but in planes and helicopters as the Armenians report

                        Do you believe everything that the Azerbaijanis report?
              2. genisis
                genisis 23 October 2020 20: 46 New
                +3
                While the Armenians shoot down one attack drone, he will have time to burn a bunch of equipment and bury an even larger pile of personnel.

                The "objective professor" decided not to notice the unused ammunition on the fallen Bayraktar))
                That is, I correctly understand your logic that there is no need to shoot down Bayraktars, because there is no point in that, because they will kill everyone anyway before they are shot down? )
                By the way, here is today's shot down.
                Not Bayraktar, kanesh, but also a plus.

                1. Professor
                  Professor 24 October 2020 07: 48 New
                  0
                  Quote: genisis
                  The "objective professor" decided not to notice the unused ammunition on the fallen Bayraktar))

                  Not at all. However, why did you "our objective" decide that this is the first and only flight of the drone? Why did you decide that his ammunition load is full? There is no ammunition on your photo, not at all.

                  Quote: genisis
                  That is, I correctly understand your logic that there is no need to shoot down Bayraktars, because there is no point in that, because they will kill everyone anyway before they are shot down? )

                  No, you don't understand correctly. The drone-air defense confrontation won the drone. I won again.
                  1. genisis
                    genisis 24 October 2020 09: 57 New
                    +3
                    The first flight with him, the second, the hundredth one - these are equally possible assumptions.
                    I talked about this photo.

                    In fact, it has a shot down bayraktar with unused ammunition.
                    The drone won the confrontation, because the air defense solves the problem of the investigation. And you need to solve the problem of the cause: the control center, the runways, best of all - the destruction of production facilities.
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 24 October 2020 18: 54 New
                      +4
                      Quote: genisis
                      The first flight with him, the second, the hundredth one - these are equally possible assumptions.

                      The number of videos posted by Azerbaijan exceeds the number of drones. Accordingly, each drone has a lot of hits.

                      Quote: genisis
                      In fact, it has a shot down bayraktar with unused ammunition.

                      No. In fact, he has a drone on the ground and we do not know the reason for its fall. He could be knocked down, he could fall himself, he could be dropped by the operator. In Israel, drones periodically fall and air defense has nothing to do with it. Here is a drone that fell in Lebanon without any air defense.


                      Quote: genisis
                      The drone won the confrontation, because the air defense solves the problem of the investigation. And you need to solve the problem of the cause: the control center, the runways, best of all - the destruction of production facilities.

                      The drone won dry and this is an indisputable fact. The control center may be thousands of kilometers from the theater of operations, nowadays not all drones need runways, and the destruction of production facilities is generally tough. I can imagine how Armenia destroys factories in Israel. wassat
                      1. genisis
                        genisis 24 October 2020 21: 02 New
                        +1
                        Drone on the ground, no ammo used.
                        The control center is thousands of kilometers from the place of application while one country on the planet can afford it. And this is not Israel. Professor, any attack drone needs a wingspan and runway to lift its payload. Kamikaze is also launched from a slingshot, but its return is not provided. So the band is more than important and vulnerable.
                        Armenia is not at war with Israel.
                        I talked about the problem of unmanned aerial vehicles without reference to specific countries.
                        By the way, I did not have the opportunity to assess the tactics and technical capabilities of Israel in the fight against at least some seriously armed enemy in the 21st century.
                        I think if your country, although you are many times larger than Artsakh, were attacked by a Palestine armed like Azerbaijan, albeit several times smaller than Azerbaijan, the world would see the "gloomy military genius" of the Jews, dropping Palestinian UAVs.
                      2. Professor
                        Professor 25 October 2020 11: 11 New
                        +3
                        Quote: genisis
                        Drone on the ground, no ammo used.

                        Well? How much ammunition was not used on this flight? How many sorties did he make before? 10, 100?

                        Quote: genisis
                        The control center is thousands of kilometers from the place of application while one country on the planet can afford it. And this is not Israel. Professor, any attack drone needs a wingspan and runway to lift its payload. Kamikaze is also launched from a slingshot, but its return is not provided. So the band is more than important and vulnerable.

                        Educational program. The range of Israeli drones (even MULs) has long been over the horizon and amounts to thousands of kilometers. The control takes place via satellite. Try to find control points.

                        Even fighters land and take off from highways, and for slow-moving drones, this is generally a routine. You cannot bomb all the roads. I won't say anything about helicopter-type drones and tiltrotor drones.


                        Quote: genisis
                        Armenia is not at war with Israel.
                        I talked about the problem of unmanned aerial vehicles without reference to specific countries.

                        And I am attached to a specific conflict. I vividly imagined how Armenia was bombing Turkey and Israel. wassat

                        Quote: genisis
                        By the way, I did not have the opportunity to assess the tactics and technical capabilities of Israel in the fight against at least some seriously armed enemy in the 21st century.
                        I think if your country, although you are many times larger than Artsakh, were attacked by a Palestine armed like Azerbaijan, albeit several times smaller than Azerbaijan, the world would see the "gloomy military genius" of the Jews, dropping Palestinian UAVs.

                        In the 20th century, there were those who tried to throw the Jews into the sea. They were assisted by tens of thousands of Soviet "advisers". And they did not skimp on the supply of modern weapons. As a result, in the 21st century, no one is going to test the strength of Jews.
                        And by the way, we are dropping both Phylystyn and Hezbalon and even Persian drones. Due to the fact that we have long appreciated the effectiveness of drones, we realized how dangerous this weapon is and have long begun to prepare to fight them.
                      3. genisis
                        genisis 25 October 2020 13: 54 New
                        0
                        I can only say for sure that it will never take off again.
                        Professor, what functions are performed by Israeli UAVs, controlled via satellite by Israeli operators thousands of kilometers from Israel?
                        Well, no one asked about Israel's glorious military victories in the XNUMXth century.
                        But in the XXI, Israel, dropping Phylyst and Hezbalon drones and, even scary to think, Persian drones, never took part in clashes with regular units of the enemy's armed forces using MLRS, artillery of the entire range of calibers, AFVs, unmanned aerial vehicles, piloted aircraft "Militant Islamists" and their own motorcycle infantry units.
                        Therefore, the assumptions about how the scraps would fly from the enemy through the back streets seem premature to me.
                        At least in the Second Lebanese War, against the "Hezbalons", as you call them, Israel, which technically surpassed the Lebanese not even several times, but orders of magnitude, did not achieve anything in a whole month.
                        By the way, when will Israel demonstrate to the world, and then there is no mockery, because I respect Israel's technical achievements in unmanned vehicles, unmanned infantry? After all, unmanned air control is a weighty argument, but ground units must seize the territory.
                      4. Professor
                        Professor 25 October 2020 20: 45 New
                        +1
                        Quote: genisis
                        I can only say for sure that it will never take off again.

                        He completed his task a dozen times.

                        Quote: genisis
                        Professor, what functions are performed by Israeli UAVs, controlled via satellite by Israeli operators thousands of kilometers from Israel?

                        Who will tell you? wink There is even satcom on Israeli mules, not to mention heavy drones.

                        Quote: genisis
                        But in the XXI, Israel, dropping Phylyst and Hezbalon drones and, even scary to think, Persian drones, never took part in clashes with regular units of the enemy's armed forces using MLRS, artillery of the entire range of calibers, AFVs, unmanned aerial vehicles, piloted aircraft "Militant Islamists" and their own motorcycle infantry units.
                        Therefore, the assumptions about how the scraps would fly from the enemy through the back streets seem premature to me.

                        Because in the 21st century, all our enemies breathe evenly and their tail does not spring.

                        Quote: genisis
                        At least in the Second Lebanese War, against the "Hezbalons", as you call them, Israel, which technically surpassed the Lebanese not even several times, but orders of magnitude, did not achieve anything in a whole month.

                        "Nothing" exceeded all our plans and expectations. Since 2006, Israel's northern border has been quiet and calm. This has not happened since 1948. As a resident of the north, I declare this to you. The horrible assassin has been sitting in a bunker for 14 years. We are satisfied with this state of affairs.

                        Quote: genisis
                        By the way, when will Israel demonstrate to the world, and then there is no mockery, because I respect Israel's technical achievements in unmanned vehicles, unmanned infantry? After all, unmanned air control is a weighty argument, but ground units must seize the territory.

                        This year he demonstrated uze on the border with Lebanon.
        2. Albay
          Albay 23 October 2020 21: 23 New
          0
          Professor, in general, in the video, I did not see more than one bayraktar. The collected trash, which was shown back in 2016 and also then identified many Armenian samples. In the lower photo and above, these are fragments of an orbiter, not a bayraktar. The only first photo on the wing seems to be if it was written bayraktar, and then I have not seen such an inscription on the wing of the bayraktar and the wing is small, the wing of the bayraktar is three times larger. The bottom photo clearly shows this was made in Azerbaijan and this is not a bayraktar.
          1. Professor
            Professor 24 October 2020 07: 50 New
            +4
            Quote: Albay
            Professor, in general, in the video, I did not see more than one bayraktar. The collected trash, which was shown back in 2016 and also then identified many Armenian samples. In the lower photo and above, these are fragments of an orbiter, not a bayraktar. The only first photo on the wing seems to be if it was written bayraktar, and then I have not seen such an inscription on the wing of the bayraktar and the wing is small, the wing of the bayraktar is three times larger. The bottom photo clearly shows this was made in Azerbaijan and this is not a bayraktar.

            Drones are not invulnerable and are knocked down and even the drones themselves fall. There is nothing surprising in this. The disregard of Russian commentators for drones as a weapon is surprising. : Aircraft modeling circle "....
            1. Albay
              Albay 25 October 2020 11: 56 New
              0
              Professor, yes. Amazing stubbornness and "belief in air defense".
          2. genisis
            genisis 24 October 2020 10: 00 New
            0
            And when have you seen anything other than what you want to see? Do you remember how 7 years ago you were here convincing Heydar Mirza that Ibad Huseynov had killed Monte Melkonian. To which Mirza wrote to you that this is nonsense. But you continued to see Ibad as a hero. I wouldn't be surprised if you still have his portrait hanging in your dark closet.
            Doesn't it seem strange to you that you don't see what is, but you see what is not?
        3. neri73-r
          neri73-r 24 October 2020 23: 05 New
          +2
          Calm down professor, 9 in 48 hours. This is the dronefall! each 8-10 ml. dollars, unloaded Azerbaijan for 100 million dollars in two days, this is not bad for the Armenians.
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 23 October 2020 11: 44 New
      0
      Quote: neri73-r
      They say (write) that our electronic warfare was dragged in and a drone fall began.

      They also write on the fences ... But if you think about it? 1. Well, they brought electronic warfare from the Russian Federation ... and who will be "controlled" with them? "Technical staff" must be trained, trained! And there was no time for that! 2. At the "helm" of electronic warfare-Russian servicemen ... And this is equivalent to the Russian Federation's declaration of entry into hostilities on the side of one of the parties to the conflict ... 3.Well, electronic warfare blocked the control channels, data transmission for the UAV ... what? For example, they are trying to land a UAV ... How should such a device look in comparison with the demonstrated ones? More .... in the event of a violation of the control channel, data transmission, the UAV turns on autonomous mode and it tries to return independently to the "base" ... How does this compare with those "soft-boiled" wreckage that we are shown?
      1. nikodeus
        nikodeus 23 October 2020 18: 27 New
        +3
        In order to "independently" return to the base, the device must know where this base is located and correctly determine its location. And when GPS signals are jammed, it is somewhat difficult to do this.
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 23 October 2020 19: 18 New
          0
          Quote: nikodeus
          the device must know where this base is located and correctly determine its location. And when GPS signals are jammed, it is somewhat difficult to do this.

          Maybe "somewhat difficult" ... But on the GPS "the light did not converge like a wedge"! The ANN is supplemented with a logometer ... in the memory of which a mathematical model of the flight trajectory as applied to the given flight task ..
    3. Ivan Ivanov_6
      Ivan Ivanov_6 24 October 2020 20: 05 New
      -2
      Write correctly - birdfall (c) Girkin. He started this (birdfall) era with MH17.
  • Grandfather
    Grandfather 23 October 2020 07: 12 New
    +3
    Quote: Ka-52
    layered missile defense

    probably meant air defense. After all, TB2 is not a ballistic rocket.
    It is interesting to look at the "layered missile defense (air defense) from drones, cheap and mass. In theory, protection from" drones "in order to be successful, it should be even cheaper to be these" drones. "
    1. Amin_vivec
      Amin_vivec 23 October 2020 07: 57 New
      0
      Shilka, or Derivation, for example, just portable air defense systems that are closer to the front edge - cheap and cheerful. Better electronic warfare, so that all at once fall from the sky.
      1. Lesorub
        Lesorub 23 October 2020 08: 49 New
        0
        Quote: Amin_Vivec
        Shilka, or Derivation, for example, just portable air defense systems that are closer to the front edge - cheap and cheerful. Better electronic warfare, so that all at once fall from the sky.

        You think shilka and MANPADS will help)) the effectiveness of these systems against UAVs is very doubtful - and the battles show it.
      2. Romka47
        Romka47 23 October 2020 12: 33 New
        +3
        Shilki and MANPADS simply will not reach them, this is the catch
        1. Alexey G
          Alexey G 23 October 2020 16: 19 New
          +3
          Can shoot down a komikadze gliding UAV on a target
        2. Amin_vivec
          Amin_vivec 24 October 2020 07: 10 New
          +2
          the Turkish drone is now operating on the condition that the sky is completely owned by Azerbaijani forces. This means that he can fly at low altitude, and target the equipment of the Armenians with high accuracy. But if you drive it to the "ceiling" of 7-8 thousand meters, where neither Shilka nor Derivation can reach it, its effectiveness will sharply decrease.
    2. Ka-52
      Ka-52 23 October 2020 08: 05 New
      +5
      in theory, protection from "drones" to be successful should also be cheaper than these "drones". Otherwise they will be strangled by "exhaustion".

      Well, if you shoot 9M317M missiles at Baikasars, then the Turks will fizzle out faster, since it is 10 times cheaper than these drones. But it also happens the other way around. As in Khmeimim - spending a 57E6E rocket on every flying homemade mop from the bearded is probably not very effective
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 23 October 2020 09: 39 New
        +4
        There was an article about Turkish UAVs, the truth about "Anka" - I did not even think that such an expensive tsyatska. Toli components are so expensive, Toli are greedy Turks.
        1. Cympak
          Cympak 23 October 2020 14: 57 New
          +3
          there the most expensive is the control center, and the drone has a sighting optical-electronic complex. Everything else is inexpensive
      2. Nasdaq
        Nasdaq 23 October 2020 11: 54 New
        +4
        If the question is purely about money, then I do not think that the means of defense must necessarily be cheaper than the means of attack. In this case, the means of protection must outweigh the possible damage.
        I think that even if a means of protection is more expensive, it is not necessary that the game is not worth the candle. If we add the saved lives, not lost advantageous positions, not thwarted counterattacks, then the price of the rocket seems ridiculous.
        Even the loss of several air defense systems is not such a loss.
        An alternative to being a target in the shooting range. This is definitely worth a lot.
        The attack on Saudi oil refineries may not be the best example. 2 refineries (1 of which is the largest refinery in the world), production declined by 1.3 million barrels per day. They attacked with drones. I am sure that the cost of that attack was NOT measured in hundreds of millions of dollars. The damage was estimated at tens of billions of dollars
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 23 October 2020 12: 28 New
          +1
          definitely. When repelling an attack, of course, the probability damage that the defending side could receive if the target of the attack is achieved is taken into account. But what is meant is that if the ratio cost and complexity of the production of an attacking projectile - the price and complexity of the production of an element of a defensive system too great towards the latter, sooner or later the enemy will gain an advantage. Because will be able to attack longer and on a large scale. Defense simply cannot reproduce such expensive consumables.
          The same goes for the reverse situation. With competent, echeloned air defense with the support of other branches of the military (electronic warfare and aviation), all these Baikasars will be knocked out faster than they can cause harm
    3. SSR
      SSR 23 October 2020 09: 12 New
      +8
      Quote: Dead Day
      echelon missile defense (air defense) from drones, cheap and mass

      Cheap drone with air-to-air missiles versus cheap drone with air-to-ground missiles.
      1. Romka47
        Romka47 23 October 2020 12: 36 New
        +1
        But this is a real idea, or a cheap and fast drone with a machine gun. (so as not to spend on missiles), the main thing there is that it would fly faster, and for plastic drones 7,62 is enough for the eyes.
      2. Gofman
        Gofman 23 October 2020 13: 09 New
        +1
        Quote: SSR

        Cheap drone with air-to-air missiles versus cheap drone with air-to-surface missiles

        It is much easier for a cheap air-to-ground drone to find its target. IMHO, a good radar for a fighter drone would be overwhelming. And the song of ground-based radars (for target designation to drones) in Karabakh is somehow too short.
        But you need to try all the options, of course. War is the engine of progress.
      3. Old tanker
        Old tanker 23 October 2020 16: 57 New
        +1
        A cheap drone with air-to-air missiles will not work. A powerful radar or optical-electronic target detection system is, oh, how expensive. Even if you hang homing missiles from MANPADS on the drone. Before aiming at the target, you need to find it and take it for escort. Therefore, there are still no fighter drones.
        1. SSR
          SSR 23 October 2020 19: 35 New
          +1
          Quote: Old Tankman
          A cheap drone with air-to-air missiles will not work. A powerful radar or optoelectronic target detection system stands, oh

          In general, it was a banter at the expense of cheapness, everything costs money.
          A cheap drone with air to air does not need an expensive afar or something like that, on a cheap drone with air missiles, they put the same thing as on drummers! On expensive ones, you can add radar to the OLS.
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 23 October 2020 16: 16 New
      +3
      Quote: Dead Day
      It is interesting to look at the "layered missile defense (air defense) from drones, cheap and mass. In theory, protection from" drones "in order to be successful, it should be even cheaper to be these" drones. "

      FOR caliber 30-57 mm (optics + radar mm range) against light UAVs and UAVs-kamikaze. This ZA covers the SD and MD air defense systems, which operate on heavy UAVs with ATGMs (which could take out the ZA because of its radius).
  • vkl.47
    vkl.47 23 October 2020 07: 24 New
    +4
    We need powerful electronic warfare stations. This is the future of the fight against UAVs. If you want to help out, you want to squeeze.
    1. ism_ek
      ism_ek 23 October 2020 10: 18 New
      +8
      What does powerful mean? Hijacking is tricky and, with decent coding, impossible. If the control signal is stupidly clogged with interference, then the drone will simply fly back.
      1. volodimer
        volodimer 23 October 2020 11: 24 New
        +9
        If "the drone just flies back", then it's not bad, it will not complete the task.
        Air defense in the years of the Great Patriotic War, not so much tried to shoot down enemy aircraft, how many did not allow attacking the covered object. If electronic warfare, in any of the possible ways, does not allow the UAV to be in the covered space, then it will fulfill its task, but the opponent will not.
      2. Old tanker
        Old tanker 23 October 2020 16: 59 New
        +1
        But the air defense task will be fulfilled. Do not forget that the task of air defense is not to destroy enemy aircraft, but to disrupt an attack on a hidden object.
  • denis obuckov
    denis obuckov 23 October 2020 08: 30 New
    11
    There is an antidote for any poison. But will the Armenians have enough time to accumulate an antidote? Because of the treacherous policy of their rulers, they were left alone with strong opponents. There is no one to help, except for words of support
  • Same lech
    Same lech 23 October 2020 06: 29 New
    +4
    Nice remains in the video ... can be put on shelves ... but the main software ... you need to open your brains and read the code ... there is just the most interesting.
    1. Observer2014
      Observer2014 23 October 2020 06: 43 New
      +7
      Quote: The same Lech
      Nice remains in the video ... can be put on shelves ... but the main software ... you need to open your brains and read the code ... there is just the most interesting.

      I beg you. Yes, this barely flying rattletrap is dangerous only for armies of the "Indians" type. And massive losses can only be inflicted on such armies as in Karabakh. Everything. For everyone else, it's just a target. American similar systems are head and shoulders above Turkish ones. They are two times higher in height. They are controlled from the other side of the Earth in terms of range of use. Well, they started shooting down. So the Armenians were brought up what they were capable of. So that there was no open beating of their troops from these UAVs.
      Look at Syria as an example, and our videoconferencing base.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 23 October 2020 07: 03 New
        +5
        The VKS Khmeimim base is certainly a tough nut to crack for a UAV. But such a concentration of air defense does not solve the problem of protecting the rest of the territory. Yes, you can defend a 5v5 or 20v20 square, but what to do with the rest of Syria, Libya, Armenia, etc.? The very meaning of air defense is called into question
        1. Livonetc
          Livonetc 23 October 2020 07: 14 New
          +5
          Have military air defense with sufficient performance characteristics to defeat drones at appropriate altitudes.
          What was used in the NKR earlier had an insufficient lesion height
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 23 October 2020 10: 54 New
            +3
            Quote: Livonetc
            Have military air defense with sufficient performance characteristics to defeat drones at appropriate altitudes.
            What was used in the NKR earlier had an insufficient lesion height

            and in general: it is better to be rich and healthy! business then!
            1. Livonetc
              Livonetc 23 October 2020 10: 59 New
              +1
              Few people succeed.
              And Russia has not been able to avoid problems.
          2. Peter is not the first
            Peter is not the first 23 October 2020 19: 53 New
            +3
            What was used in the NKR earlier had an insufficient lesion height

            And maybe everything is simpler. The war went from the plains to the mountains, and this is for Karabakh plus 1100 meters, so the obsolete air defense of Karabakh, standing in the mountains, began to reach the Bayraktar UAV, the maximum flight altitude of which is measured from sea level, and not from the surface.
        2. Nyrobsky
          Nyrobsky 23 October 2020 10: 10 New
          +5
          Quote: Tlauicol
          Yes, you can defend a 5v5 or 20v20 square, but what to do with the rest of Syria, Libya, Armenia, etc.? The very meaning of air defense is called into question

          They are good at the initial stage when the surprise factor is used. So it was in Idlib, so it was in Libya, when the SAA and LNA Haftar fought with the enemy who did not have enough drones, or who used models made by handicrafts. Then everything comes back to normal, tk. the combat zone is saturated with air defense. After a dozen Turkish UAVs were dropped in Syria and more than two dozen Turkish UAVs in Libya, the number of videos showing the "beating" of the equipment of the Syrian army and LNA Haftar practically disappeared.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 23 October 2020 10: 58 New
            +2
            the video of the "beating" of the equipment of the Syrian army and LNA Haftar practically disappeared after the conclusion of a truce and ceasefire. Now Haftar is transparently hinting about a new offensive, which means there will be many more videos of burning equipment
            1. Nyrobsky
              Nyrobsky 23 October 2020 11: 29 New
              +2
              Quote: Tlauicol
              the video of the "beating" of the equipment of the Syrian army and LNA Haftar practically disappeared after the conclusion of a truce and ceasefire. Now Haftar is transparently hinting about a new offensive, which means there will be many more videos of burning equipment

              Who knows how to know. The army of Egypt looms near the border with Libya, which does not at all like the idea of ​​Ankara to expand its presence in the zone of its interests. The matter in Libya is heading for elections, Saraji's mandate ended in 2019, Erdogan's Libyan adventures will have a lot to depend on who will head the PNC, because what is available today is more based on personal agreements with Saraji. Could these factors explain the fact that the Sultan significantly reduced his activity in Libya and decided to turn his gaze to the Azerbaijan-Armenian-Karabakh issue, which is territorially closer and where he has less contradictions with the countries allied in the NATO bloc?
        3. alexmach
          alexmach 23 October 2020 10: 14 New
          0
          VKS Khmeimim base

          And Heimim is not the only example of countering UAVs in Syria.
        4. Servisinzhener
          Servisinzhener 23 October 2020 11: 20 New
          0
          Do you need more? Protect objects important for the defense and life of the country. And not fields, rivers and forests.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 23 October 2020 11: 23 New
            +1
            It is necessary, otherwise tanks and infantry are burning in the fields, rivers, forests
        5. Prahlad
          Prahlad 23 October 2020 13: 46 New
          0
          strong against handicraft wooden drones, but against the military it is not yet clear
        6. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 23 October 2020 16: 41 New
          +1
          Quote: Tlauicol
          The VKS Khmeimim base is certainly a tough nut to crack for a UAV. But such a concentration of air defense does not solve the problem of protecting the rest of the territory.

          What concentration is there? S-400 with its "Shells" and the army "Thor".
        7. Old tanker
          Old tanker 23 October 2020 17: 01 New
          +1
          Do not confuse object air defense and zonal air defense. The tasks are somewhat different.
      2. Same lech
        Same lech 23 October 2020 07: 20 New
        -11 qualifying.
        Look at Syria as an example, and our videoconferencing base.

        I beg you ... you saw what kind of UAVs they shot down there ... and laughter and sin ... cheap crafts of militants.
        1. Old tanker
          Old tanker 23 October 2020 17: 03 New
          +1
          It is precisely such poles that are difficult to detect. EPR practically wound 0. Therefore, they were detected by the optical-electronic channels of the Armor and Tors.
      3. Runway
        Runway 23 October 2020 08: 04 New
        +1
        How much will you spend on hitting an 8000 meter target?
        What about 2-4-6-8-12 goals in the moment?
        What prevents logic from applying a complex application of a UAV in a given area (different heights, azimuths).
        The topic of tactical drone is being discussed. Protection is built in proportion to the threat.
        SAR is not an example.
        The Armenians were not given a ride, the ZBD is changing.
        1. Old tanker
          Old tanker 23 October 2020 17: 08 New
          0
          The Tor-2m installation has 16 missiles and 4 target channels. That is, it simultaneously fires at 4 targets. Volley just under 5 seconds. So count the possibilities of only one installation.
          1. Runway
            Runway 24 October 2020 01: 04 New
            0
            In ideal plain conditions, APU with a flow rate of "two" - 8 targets. If one works. With cover for completing with a duplicate APU with a consumption of "one" - 16 targets.
            But we are witnessing the shift of the ZBD from the valleys to the foothills and mountains. And this is a completely different alignment. The detection range will drop. Use military air defense equipment in areas where the distance between the ridges of the spurs is less than 16 km - suicide and failure to fulfill the air defense mission of the first echelon of defense. It is necessary to carry out to the ridges of adjacent spurs at least for a couple of MANPADS or MZA calculations (ambushes). Well, for a platoon of two-legged to cover both the ambushes of MZA / MANPADS and to cover the line from which ANs or an ATGM crew can work out (which will obviously not be alone, but with a "sex escort" of 10-20 two-legged.
            So, estimate the stability of the air defense line with the complex use of reconnaissance / shock UAVs in conjunction with bipeds on the ground (fire support art for bipeds is an axiom).
      4. g1v2
        g1v2 23 October 2020 10: 06 New
        14
        Not certainly in that way . There are 200 countries in the world. And for 80 percent of them, bayraktars are quite an inexpensive and quite effective way to get their strike aircraft. And without expensive pilot training and constant fuel consumption for flights. You can train on simulators.
        The same goes for shells. As the latest databases have shown, the carapace is the most inexpensive and effective way to get modern air defense.
        It is clear that this and that is not an argument for the wars of the countries of the top twenty. But for the rest of one and a half hundred countries, this is an excellent choice. For wars of the Karabakh type. Libyan or some other - it works for itself.
    2. Airdefense
      Airdefense 23 October 2020 14: 58 New
      +2
      you need to open your brains and read the code ... there is just the most interesting.

      Unless it is possible to disrupt the exchange protocol on the assumption that the Turks use weak cryptography, but I doubt that there is such a huge hole, after all, the modern component base allows the use of normal cryptography.
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 23 October 2020 06: 34 New
    15
    "Bayraktar-TB2" of Turkish production began to fall more often in Karabakh
    So, finally, the Armenian side has learned something to combat UAVs. Experience comes with time, but unfortunately it is gained through large losses at the first stage.
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 23 October 2020 06: 47 New
      16
      Quote: rotmistr60
      So, finally, the Armenian side has learned something to combat the UAV. Experience comes with time, but unfortunately it is gained through large losses at the first stage

      Is it Armenian? Or did ours and Gyumri plant electronic warfare? Well, the fact that Azerbaijan's supply of drones is not endless is not difficult to guess. It is not infinite among the Turks either ... For some reason, I do not believe that the air defense of the Armenians suddenly revived and organized by itself. Pashinyan and his sorosets, in principle, are only capable of jumping at rallies ...
      So we rode the war ...
      1. Graz
        Graz 23 October 2020 07: 02 New
        -4
        the Armenians had both the slave and the s300, and since they apparently do not know how to use them, they were destroyed
    2. halpat
      halpat 23 October 2020 08: 47 New
      +5
      Quote: rotmistr60
      "Bayraktar-TB2" of Turkish production began to fall more often in Karabakh
      So, finally, the Armenian side has learned something to combat UAVs. Experience comes with time, but unfortunately it is gained through large losses at the first stage.

      you can learn something if you have "tools of labor" - means of detection and destruction.
      they probably gave them something and not only gave them a lift, but also taught ... where to look and what buttons to press.

      I was always amazed at the "curvature" of this crowd of military and paramilitary gatherings of the Middle East, except for the Jews.
      This has already been confirmed many times, by many conflicts.
      The Transcaucasians were no better. Both sides of this mess.
  • Fungus
    Fungus 23 October 2020 06: 46 New
    -4
    Drones against Papuans are good. Against a normal army, this is a useless piece of iron.
    1. jovanni
      jovanni 23 October 2020 06: 56 New
      +1
      Drones against Papuans are good. Against a normal army, this is a useless piece of iron.

      This is how, unfortunately, those who make decisions in our MO thought. Now your statement can be safely rephrased: ... In the hands of the Papuans, drones are a useless piece of iron, but in a normal army they are good ...
      1. Fungus
        Fungus 23 October 2020 07: 27 New
        -11 qualifying.
        In a normal army, they are good against the Papuans. Against a normal army, they are a useless piece of iron.
      2. Horon
        Horon 24 October 2020 18: 16 New
        0
        In a normal army, when trying to use them, strikes will be delivered to control, production and storage points!
  • bald
    bald 23 October 2020 06: 49 New
    +4
    The communication of the electronics is not bad, neat, everything is heat-shrinkable from the effects of moisture, and even the tube is stretched over the throttles - a serious manufacturer, not handicraft.
  • Dart2027
    Dart2027 23 October 2020 06: 54 New
    +6
    If the Armenian army learns to fight drones, then the victory of Azerbaijan will be in question.
    1. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 23 October 2020 12: 47 New
      0
      She is already under a big question further fighting in the mountains and this will be such a painful problem for them.
      1. ultra
        ultra 23 October 2020 14: 01 New
        +1
        Quote: Incvizitor
        further battles in the mountains and this will be such a pain for them.

        There are no mountains there, so the hills are not the Hindu Kush or the mountainous regions of Chechnya.
        1. Incvizitor
          Incvizitor 23 October 2020 23: 59 New
          0
          1200-1400 altitude 2000

          Already mountains of medium height with a bunch of difficulties https://lastday.club/boevye-dejstviya-v-gorah/
      2. Modun
        Modun 24 October 2020 16: 21 New
        0
        And there will be no battles in the mountains - the UAVs will be surrounded and scared away until they surrender and return to Armenia
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 23 October 2020 06: 59 New
    +5
    And there is a hole in the old woman! There was, then, a means, or a way of descent to the sinful earth of Turkish shock drones. Perhaps, the Armenians "leased" their ToRs to Karabakh out of their presence.
  • newcomer
    newcomer 23 October 2020 07: 04 New
    +3
    "It's hard to learn, but easy to fight." The Armenians are learning in the process. It is a pity only that the RA Ministry of Defense did not train personnel precisely during exercises, but study at the cost of huge failures and bloodshed.
  • Owl
    Owl 23 October 2020 07: 07 New
    +6
    Judging by the photographs, the UAV "just fell", without the "fire impact" of air defense systems. Very similar to the work of electronic warfare systems.
    1. Asad
      Asad 23 October 2020 07: 20 New
      +3
      Maybe he just fell, we probably won't find out the truth!
  • Radapupin
    Radapupin 23 October 2020 07: 22 New
    -3
    2 drones TB2 according to Armenian data is that a lot?))
    1. Nyrobsky
      Nyrobsky 23 October 2020 10: 16 New
      +3
      Quote: Radapupin
      2 drones TB2 according to Armenian data is that a lot?))

      Considering that at the initial stage there was not a single one, and here in two days there were two pieces, then it is already normal + Iran landed 5 pieces. How many of them does Azerbaijan have?
  • donavi49
    donavi49 23 October 2020 07: 50 New
    +4
    The reason for the increased losses is bad weather. Forced to go more impudently and, as a result, great losses. However, even here - 2 consumable type UAVs are virtually zero losses. The weather will improve tomorrow.
    1. huntsman650
      huntsman650 23 October 2020 08: 58 New
      +8
      Due to low clouds, they decreased in height. And get into the zone of destruction of the Osa air defense system.
    2. Piramidon
      Piramidon 23 October 2020 11: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: donavi49
      2 consumable UAVs are virtually zero losses

      Consumables are expensive. $ 70 million per set.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 23 October 2020 12: 19 New
        0
        Well, this is the price of 1 MFI with ammunition and an evacuated pilot who will return to service.

        So far, they have lost 2 TV2 out of 6 in the kit (for 70 million dollars) = ~ 22 million dollars, even by a trivial division, while stations and mobile points also cost money, spare parts and basic additional equipment.
    3. Warrior-80
      Warrior-80 23 October 2020 15: 25 New
      +1
      Baykatar would not say that a consumable of 10-15 million green costs, for this amount of 10 tanks you could buy
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 23 October 2020 16: 19 New
        -2
        "10 tanks could be bought" - Killed tanks
    4. Object.F7
      Object.F7 24 October 2020 08: 41 New
      0
      So the Armenians invented a time machine, because in the photo with the wreckage your "tomorrow" has already come for them: sunny weather and an almost cloudless sky, so come up with a better excuse. Who only puts you pluses for this, lit a bot farm
  • Svetlana
    Svetlana 23 October 2020 07: 53 New
    13
    Quote: Dead Day
    in theory, protection from "drones" to be successful should also be cheaper than these "drones". Otherwise they will be strangled by "exhaustion".

    A categorically erroneous delusion. An air defense system should not be cheaper than offensive weapons. (drones) For the cost of an air defense shot should be compared not with the cost of an airplane, but with the cost of possible damage caused by this drone.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 23 October 2020 08: 23 New
    -3
    "They began to fall more and more often ..." An interesting phrase, but how often? And what? Maybe kamikaze drones? And so I see one Bayraktar and that's it.
  • Konnick
    Konnick 23 October 2020 08: 43 New
    +1
    Quote: Svetlana
    A categorically erroneous delusion. An air defense system should not be cheaper than offensive weapons. (drones) For the cost of an air defense shot should be compared not with the cost of an airplane, but with the cost of possible damage caused by this drone

    I disagree. What if a war of attrition? Revealing an air defense system by old corn workers is simply brilliant. Use MANPADS against gunner drones? It's like shooting golden balls from a slingshot at sparrows. The current air defense systems were sharpened against missiles and against aircraft with helicopters, which have prohibitive costs. The cost of attack drones is an order of magnitude lower than manned vehicles. One gets the impression that modern air defense systems will be helpless in front of propeller-driven attack aircraft of the Second World War, if they are used massively and at low altitudes, practically at low level flight. The economy must be economical. If the costly air defense itself is the goal of inflicting damage, then the use of cheaper weapons is quite possible. How to assess the damage from one kamikaze drone? The damage from it is just a tank .... worth ten million rubles. I understand protection against weapons of mass destruction, it is expensive. But the air defense resources are not endless, expensive missiles costing the same as the tank itself are unlikely to be an excuse - but we saved the tank.
  • Vitaly Tsymbal
    Vitaly Tsymbal 23 October 2020 08: 46 New
    +3
    Just yesterday I wrote - "... I am talking about the tactics that are more effective for the Azerbaijani army. The tactics boil down to the fact that it is not possible to create a continuous front line in the mountainous terrain, therefore the most effective is to capture key heights in the enemy's rear in small groups and to hit the communications, which in the mountains are very convenient for inflicting tangible losses on the enemy's reserves, and at this time the infantry slowly and confidently crawls towards the settlements, which the enemy is forced to leave due to the lack of reserves. against ground tactics - not yet. By the way, the UAVs are being directed by the fighters sitting on the captured heights. It is in the tactical plan that the Azerbaijani army turned out to be more prepared than the army of Karabakh. In the mountainous and wooded areas, UAVs are useless. There is not a single video where the UAV hit the target in the forest "... I will add - some UAV fans need to understand that UAVs on a scale of war do not play a key role, but an auxiliary The success of any military clash on the ground does not depend on them.
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 23 October 2020 09: 04 New
      -2
      Excuse me, but what goals can there be in a mountainous and wooded area? And the point is to capture key heights behind enemy lines? Didn't Chechnya teach you? The Azerbaijani army is not sprayed into raids in the rear, they quietly conduct reconnaissance of the terrain from drones, from which, by the way, you cannot hide in the forest, a thermal imager will help you. And then the use of self-propelled artillery and attack drones for specific targets. Small group on reserves? Funny smile
      1. Vitaly Tsymbal
        Vitaly Tsymbal 23 October 2020 10: 53 New
        +2
        Is it funny? Ridiculous when amateurs argue ... Have you been to Chechnya or Afghanistan? I don't think so ... Have you been trained in military operations in mountainous terrain, or at least attended exercises? I think no. They tell you about thermal imagers, and have you ever used them? I think no. So laughter for no reason, a sign ...
        1. Konnick
          Konnick 23 October 2020 11: 14 New
          0
          Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
          Is it funny? Ridiculous when amateurs argue ... Have you been to Chechnya or Afghanistan? I don't think so ... Have you been trained in military operations in mountainous terrain, or at least attended exercises?

          This is how the Armenians wanted to fight, but modern reality has shown their backwardness, and at the same time the failure of our combat training. To be proud of our failures in Afghanistan and Chechnya is bad manners. Or maybe I'm a participant in the Battle of Kulikovo and an adherent of the use of ambush regiments. Yes, and I didn't burn in the tank. I will give one example, a helicopter regiment, at one time, by accidentally turning on a jammer, left half of Riga without communication. When they remembered these abilities, they decided to send two turntables when they were already putting pressure on the Chechens in a mountainous and wooded area (cool name) in order to suppress and simply destroy the militants' communications, but the raid was canceled - the Khasavyurt agreement had already been signed. Can you tell me why you didn't remember about them at the beginning of the war? Don't look for this event on the Internet, I can tell you this military secret.
          1. Vitaly Tsymbal
            Vitaly Tsymbal 23 October 2020 18: 42 New
            0
            Well tell me OUR FAILURES IN AFGHANA?
            1. Konnick
              Konnick 23 October 2020 18: 50 New
              +1
              Yes offhand, the death of the Maravarian special forces company ... well enough, as a stubborn teenager really
              1. Vitaly Tsymbal
                Vitaly Tsymbal 23 October 2020 19: 01 New
                0
                There is no failure, there is a mistake by the command and the commanders. But we are talking about FAILURES, not commanders' mistakes. By the way, when the Maikop brigade was killed in Grozny, it really was a failure, because "suddenly" everyone forgot about the tactics of fighting in the city, although many of the "generals" of that time studied it on the example of the capture of Berlin and other cities.
                1. Konnick
                  Konnick 23 October 2020 19: 25 New
                  +1
                  Didn't want to answer, what are the tactics of fighting in the city? The Chechens came up with cunning moves, from which our "literate" stupor came. Don't step on sore blisters. Do you know small TOZ-8, TOZ-12? These rifles turned out to be superweapons in Grozny.
                  And the failures in Afghanistan? How long after entering did you come up with the idea of ​​creating block posts? It is a pity if you are an officer and cannot analyze the past in order to understand how it should have been.
                  1. Vitaly Tsymbal
                    Vitaly Tsymbal 23 October 2020 19: 37 New
                    0
                    There were no checkpoints in Afghanistan. There were outposts. They appeared immediately after the entry of our troops into Afghanistan. The concept of a checkpoint appeared after Afgan on the territory of the USSR, but the task of checkpoints (in the early 90s) was different. Namely, to prevent groups of armed people from moving from one territory to another, while in Afghanistan the outpost performed the task of protecting and defending a strategically important facility.
                    1. Konnick
                      Konnick 23 October 2020 19: 46 New
                      0
                      No, they did not appear immediately, even if the outposts, it was a long time ago. You do not know the intricacies of Afgan, and even more so, all your knowledge from the Internet, unfortunately.
                      1. Vitaly Tsymbal
                        Vitaly Tsymbal 23 October 2020 19: 56 New
                        0
                        I don’t know the intricacies of Chechnya, I quit at the beginning of 95, but in Afghanistan I was 82-84 (that is, I changed those who entered) I walked at the column from Kushka to Kandahar and from Bagram to Hairaton, in a hot spot in 1990 I practically commanded at night a checkpoint. And on what basis do you have "subtleties" about Afghanistan?
                  2. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 23 October 2020 20: 44 New
                    0
                    Quote: Konnick
                    The Chechens came up with cunning moves, from which our "literate" stupor came.

                    Yes, what are the moves if the brigade was driven into the city even without maps and they did not even know where they were.
          2. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 24 October 2020 23: 08 New
            0
            Quote: Konnick
            helicopter regiment, at one time accidentally turning on the jammer left half of Riga without communication


            Without a wired connection? Oh well.
            1. Konnick
              Konnick 25 October 2020 02: 57 New
              0
              Even some TVs burned out
              1. The eye of the crying
                The eye of the crying 25 October 2020 03: 52 New
                0
                At least TVs have antennas.
                1. Konnick
                  Konnick 25 October 2020 05: 38 New
                  0
                  I don’t forbid to doubt, It was or was not, but this story was told to me and then brought to the Mi-8 with this system
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 October 2020 11: 33 New
      -2
      In two days, two drones were shot down - and over the same two days, the Turks and Israel delivered several dozen more to Azerbaijan, both shock drones and kamikaze.
  • Nastia makarova
    Nastia makarova 23 October 2020 09: 02 New
    +2
    Armenia lost the war !!! now on what terms will he sign surrender
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 October 2020 11: 30 New
      -2
      Most likely, the Azerbaijani army will take Karabakh in ticks from the south, cutting off the corridor, and when it is cut, they will begin to attack from the north, thereby covering the entire mountainous Karabakh with cross-fire of artillery.
      1. Nastia makarova
        Nastia makarova 23 October 2020 11: 47 New
        -2
        most likely it will be, but they will not take the whole Karabakh, they will only take the field Karabakh, which will lead to the blockade of Nagorno-Karabakh
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 23 October 2020 16: 20 New
          0
          No, they will take all of Karabakh.
          1. Nastia makarova
            Nastia makarova 24 October 2020 05: 37 New
            0
            will only take the field Karabakh
  • APASUS
    APASUS 23 October 2020 09: 14 New
    +2
    Armenians learn during the war, but this science costs the country dearly.
  • Archivist Vasya
    Archivist Vasya 23 October 2020 09: 55 New
    +1
    It’s not a pity to lose such a drone, this is what makes it different from Anki. At the same time, it is quite effective for such a conflict. Let's see how they will shoot down further - then it will become clear what they brought up or it is an operator's mistake from a series of relaxed / insolent.
    It can be assumed that the downed Bayraktars are being thoroughly analyzed.
    - it really can only be assumed, for such an analysis you need a good specialist in this field, and considering how the Armenians are fighting, I doubt that they have one.
    PS In general, there is too much news about drones, yesterday almost every second. Straight "hot" topic!
  • Hermit21
    Hermit21 23 October 2020 12: 25 New
    +1
    It is worth organizing a more or less normal air defense (well, the "north wind" probably brought nishtyakov), as unmanned unmanned aerial vehicles disappear somewhere. Who would have thought
  • Old26
    Old26 23 October 2020 12: 52 New
    +2
    Quote: neri73-r
    They say (write) that our electronic warfare was dragged in and a drone fall began. Apparently, the task is to turn the conflict into a protracted one (without defeating one of the parties) and to force the parties to negotiate.

    Have ours dragged the electronic warfare to where? To Nagorno-Karabakh? And at least there is a video of the destruction of at least 17 Azerbaijani UAVs. For all the time of hostilities. Which is rather difficult to call a "drone fall", But the fact that 1 EW system in Armenia (Nagorno-Karabakh) was destroyed is confirmed ("Repellent")

    Quote: Livonetc
    What was used in the NKR earlier had an insufficient lesion height

    As if now they have something supernova. The same as it was

    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    Or did ours and Gyumri plant electronic warfare?

    And why should we interfere with ours? "Throwing", as you say, we are definitely on the side of Armenia. Do we need this?
    UAVs are not "immortal". They go astray just like any aircraft. Only much more complicated. Moreover, the loss of drones happened all these days. This is not a phenomenon of the last days
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 23 October 2020 16: 45 New
      0
      Quote: Old26
      But the fact that 1 EW system in Armenia (Nagorno-Karabakh) was destroyed is confirmed ("Repellent")

      There it is not clear how it was destroyed. In the video from the UAV, the "Repellent" is already pretty badly: instead of the operator's cabin and the front platform, there is some kind of skeleton made of beams.
  • Victorm
    Victorm 23 October 2020 13: 09 New
    +1
    Quote: genisis
    They brought nothing new.
    Wasps, Arrows.
    Yesterday the Anna-News reportage was also released

    They brought exactly the weapons for which Armenia can scrape together crews and crews from the reserve, or prepare them urgently.
    But most of all they brought the Kornet ATGM and Igla MANPADS - Azerbaijan will most likely finish off the Armenian Armed Forces with the Su-25 and Mi-24, they are preparing for this, plus the Kornet allows hitting not only armored targets at a great distance, in the mountains this is important. But all this is more like actions according to a template and inertia, out of touch with reality, and the reality is this:


    People really do not want to let their children go to war over territories where only the wind has blown for 30 years, and smugglers from Iran with drugs for the Karabakh clan.

    Well, and for dessert about mercenaries in Karabakh - we recall Naryshkin's words on this matter:

    I am Albert Yervandi Mikaelyan was born on September 7, 2001 in the city of Artik, Shirak region of Armenia. On December 19, 2019, I was drafted into military service. I served in the city of Gyumri.

    After completing a six-month training course for controlling the Fagot ATGM, I received the rank of junior sergeant. Six months later, I was sent to a military unit located in Martuni. There I was in an anti-tank platoon. There we constantly conducted military exercises.

    The military unit consisted of conscripts, super-conscripts, and 1500 mercenaries of Kurdish origin. These mercenaries received $ 600 a month and spoke only their own language. Detachments of 10-15 mercenaries studied local conditions and prepared for battle.
    1. Gofman
      Gofman 23 October 2020 13: 28 New
      0
      Tin ... After such appeals to the homeland, I think it is not worth it. If only to get out to Russia ... But there are still more patriots of Armenia sitting here, so where to go now, hz.
  • Victorm
    Victorm 23 October 2020 13: 39 New
    0
    Quote: Gofman
    Tin ... After such appeals to the homeland, I think it's not worth returning. If only to Russia. But there are still more patriots of Armenia sitting here, so where to go now, h.z.
    Nonsense, there will be nothing for them, it fits well with tradition and history.
    There is such a "hero" thug Adranik, nicknamed "One-Eared General", his ear was cut off for treason in Turkey.
    He committed many atrocities, massacring everyone in Azerbaijan. In the end, in Zangezur, near the village of Zybykh, Andronic and his henchmen were surrounded by the militias led by Sultan Bek and surrendered. One-eared Andronic, kneeling before the Sultan Bek, with tears in his eyes, begged him for mercy. In response, Sultan bey suggested that he choose a death worthy of a man, but if he does not consider himself to be such, then in front of the eyes of his captive henchmen he must crawl on his knees between his legs. Saving the skin, Andronic chose the latter and in front of everyone's eyes he crawled on all fours between the boots of Sultan Bek. For this, the bek spat at him and ordered to let him go.
    And nothing, Adranik HERO in Armenia.

    And these are just people. One went instead of a son, who will blame the father for this? ...
    1. Flavius
      Flavius 23 October 2020 23: 00 New
      -1
      And they didn't cut off his finger or his head, how do you like the Turks to do? :)) How did you get here as a Turkish storyteller? Andronik Ozanyan, are you still pissing ???! :) That's right, if not for the intervention of England, he would have solved the Karabakh issue back in 1919. I had to expel him from Armenia with the help of corrupt Dashnakhs like the current Pashinnian (Vratsyan) by political intrigues.

      Who are you composing for? Just do not pretend that you yourself believe in this nonsense, you are not "Dostoevsky's 5-letter novel", are you? You understand that we can open reliable sources and read?

      Can you show some more prisoners who are forced to say "Karabakh is Azerbaijan"? Or is it enough that he reads from written in Armenian about 1500 Kurds in the Battalion (!) ??
  • Homeland
    Homeland 23 October 2020 14: 35 New
    +2
    Azerbaijan has long been producing and successfully using the Zerbe (Strike) strike UAVs. But for some reason, all discussions and comments are only around Israeli and Turkish drones. The network is constantly underestimating the Azerbaijani soldier and weapons.
  • KARAKURT777
    KARAKURT777 23 October 2020 17: 50 New
    +1
    Only one, and that one is out of order. Photos from 20 angles have been surfing the Internet for 10 days.
  • Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 23 October 2020 20: 03 New
    +1
    It is quite obvious that the more effective the NKR air defense system is, the less danger drones will pose, which have been causing significant damage to manpower and equipment since the beginning of the conflict.

    Provided, of course, that the Armenians will not be squeezed out of there earlier ...
  • Artura
    Artura 23 October 2020 20: 35 New
    +1
    The "leaf fall" has begun !!


  • Victorm
    Victorm 23 October 2020 23: 53 New
    0
    Quote: Homeland
    Azerbaijan has long been producing and successfully using the Zerbe (Strike) strike UAVs. But for some reason, all discussions and comments are only around Israeli and Turkish drones.
    Well, "Zerbe" is a licensed Israeli UAV, the production of part of the units of which was localized in Azerbaijan.
    The rest is advertising and nothing more.

    Quote: Homeland
    The network is constantly underestimating the Azerbaijani soldier and weapons.
    This is beneficial to Armenia, and also to Turkey, and Iran at least.
  • Object.F7
    Object.F7 24 October 2020 00: 42 New
    0
    There was no connection to the terrain? There is a suspicion that the closer to the Armenian border, the more often the birds will fall
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 24 October 2020 13: 02 New
    0
    Well. Our turned on Krasuhi and the death of livestock went. It remains to teach the Armenians to build an echeloned air defense system and smash the barmaley on the territory of Azerbaijan.
  • certero
    certero 24 October 2020 19: 27 New
    0
    Slow, large in size, poorly maneuverable aerial target. This is what this drone is. To shoot everyone down, an I-16 fighter and a few approaches are enough.
  • Artura
    Artura 24 October 2020 22: 20 New
    -1
    Krasukha fry bayraktars !!!!!!
  • Horst78
    Horst78 26 October 2020 20: 57 New
    0
    I remember in 2014, at DONBASS ATGMs, the militia landed aviation.