Military Review

Standing on the Ugra. How Ivan III triumphed against the Horde

52

Standing on the Ugra. 1480. Miniature from the Observational Codex. XVI century


540 years ago, Russia finally freed itself from the power of the Horde. Standing on the Ugra River became an important milestone in stories Russian state. Russia got stronger and refused to pay tribute to the degraded and collapsed Golden Horde on the khanates.

It should be noted that when the Grand Duke Ivan III Vasilyevich tore up the khan's letter, refusing to pay tribute to the Horde, it was a purely symbolic gesture. Russia has long been superior to the Horde in military-economic terms, paying at times according to the old tradition, which it was "ugly" to break. Russia and the Horde were parts of the great northern civilization. But if Muscovite Russia after the Kulikov field and the raid of Tokhtamysh constantly strengthened and grew stronger, then the Horde grew decrepit and degenerated, falling apart. Islamization and Arabization destroyed the Horde (more precisely, the Clan of the direct heir of late Scythia: "The Mystery of the Russian Horde and Great Tartary"). Moscow became the new center of control of the northern civilization. For some time, the mighty and prosperous Russian state, according to old memory, paid the Horde (like “humanitarian aid”), but the time came when even this formality was no longer observed. Moscow confidently takes the place of the main center of Northern Eurasia. Under Ivan the Terrible, two parts of the great and ancient civilization (Great Scythia - "Tartaria") were again united under the rule of one king.

The collapse of the Golden Horde and the rise of Muscovite Russia


Islamization became the main factor that destroyed the White (Golden) Horde. Some of the nobility and most of the common people did not accept Islam, preferring to keep the old faith or go under the rule of Russian princes (including the Grand Duke of Lithuania and Russia) and accept Orthodoxy. Even during the "great hush" of the XIV century, the collapse of the Horde Empire began. The rulers of certain regions became de facto independent. In the first half of the XNUMXth century, the Siberian, Uzbek, Crimean and Kazan Khanates and the Nogai Horde gained independence. A little later, the Astrakhan Khanate arose. The largest fragment of the Golden Horde was the Great Horde. The territory of the Great Horde included the lands between the Don and the Volga, the Lower Volga region and the steppes of the North Caucasus. The capital was the city of Saray-Berke.

Moscow Russia, on the contrary, experienced a period of military-political, economic and cultural flourishing. The great Tsar Ivan III Vasilievich (ruled 1462-1505) as a whole completed the process of uniting the northeastern Russian lands around Moscow. A family alliance was concluded with the family of the Ryazan princes. Ryazan became an ally of Moscow, covering it from the side of the "Wild Field" (steppe). The lands of the Yaroslavl and Rostov principalities became part of Moscow Rus. In 1471, the Moscow army defeated the Novgorodians on the banks of the Sheloni River. Novgorod took the oath of allegiance to the great sovereign. The Free City lost the right to conduct an independent foreign policy and ceded to Moscow a significant part of the large Dvina land. The Prolitovskaya boyar party was defeated. The Novgorod Republic still retained its autonomy, but its end was a foregone conclusion. In 1472 Great Perm with its huge and rich possessions was annexed to the Moscow Grand Duchy. The possessions of Moscow stepped over the Stone (Ural).

In 1475, the army of the great sovereign pacified Novgorod. The Novgorod Republic was liquidated. The Novgorod archive and the veche bell were taken to Moscow. The Novgorod opposition was "cleaned out". As soon as Novgorod was pacified, the brothers Andrei Bolshoi, Boris and Andrei Menshoi rebelled against the Grand Duke. They tried to raise Novgorod against Moscow and conclude an alliance with Lithuania. In response, Ivan III made a new campaign against Novgorod in 1478. In Novgorod, the veche and the institution of the mayor were liquidated, and it was finally annexed to Muscovite Rus.

Moscow has already actively intervened in the affairs of its eastern neighbors. In particular, she responded to the raids of the Kazan Tatars. In 1467-1468. Moscow army for the first time made a trip to Kazan. At the same time, Moscow attracted the pro-Russian party to its side, tried to put its Tatar prince on the Kazan table. In 1469, the Moscow army forced the Kazan Khan Ibragim, who was pursuing a policy hostile to Russia, to surrender. Kazan, in fact, became a vassal of Moscow. Ibrahim promised to release all Christian slaves and prisoners taken over the past 40 years, not to attack the border lands, not to enter into alliances with the enemies of Moscow, etc.

Khan Akhmat's attempt to restore the power of the Horde


The Khan of the Great Horde, Akhmat (from 1460 he ruled together with his older brother, from 1471 to 1481 independently) tried to restore the power of the state. He tried to restore power over the rich Khorezm, fought with the Crimea, which was the main threat to the future of the Great Horde. He entered into an alliance with the Polish-Lithuanian king Casimir, directed against Moscow. Akhmat tried to return the old relations with Moscow, to receive the old tribute from Russia. In 1460 and 1468. Akhmat's troops raided the Ryazan land.

In 1472, Akhmat organized a large campaign against Moscow. But when the Horde came to the Oka, the Moscow sentry was already there, which occupied convenient crossings. They were well fortified with notches and palisades. The great sovereign himself stood with the main forces in Kolomna. The direct route to Moscow was closed by the enemy, an attempt to break through could lead to heavy losses, which in the face of confrontation with the Crimean Khan was suicide. Then the khan turned to the west, trying to find a workaround, and attacked the city of Aleksin on the right bank of the Oka. The two-day battle ended with the fall of the city. But at this time the Russian regiments occupied the fords outside the city. Losses, the impossibility of an easy victory and an attack in the east on his ulus forced Akhmat to leave. After that, the great sovereign Ivan Vasilyevich further reduced the amount of payments, and then completely stopped paying tribute (according to other sources, this happened even earlier).


Standing on Acne


The situation at the beginning of 1480 was dangerous for the Moscow sovereign. The elder brother was openly challenged by Andrei Uglichsky and Boris Volotsky. They had their own inheritance, treasury and squads. Ivan Vasilyevich asked the brothers not to break the peace, but they have not yet agreed to reconciliation. Moscow was threatened by a war on two fronts: against the Polish-Lithuanian king Casimir, who was allied with Livonia and the khan of the Great Horde. At the same time, in the conditions of internal turmoil, the Livonians gathered a large army and attacked the Pskov land, but could not take Pskov.

The tsar of the Great Horde demanded from Moscow to pay tribute "for the last summer" and called the prince himself to bow to Sarai. Ivan Vasilyevich replied with a resolute refusal. Akhmat began to prepare for a big war. In May 1480, the Horde king attacked the Besputu volost, which belonged to Moscow. However, the grand-ducal regiments took up positions on the Oka in time and again did not allow the enemy to cross the river. Akhmat returned home and, having received an assurance of help from King Casimir IV, reassembled his troops and in July of the same year moved to Moscow. If before the Golden Horde fielded 60-100 thousand horsemen, now the Great Horde was able to raise only 30-40 thousand soldiers. The great Moscow sovereign had about the same strength. In the summer, scouts and border guards began to hear about the preparation of the enemy for the campaign.

The boyar elite in Moscow split into two groups: one (“rich and belly lovers of money”), led by the okolnichy Ivan Oshchera and Grigory Mamon, suggested that Ivan III flee, the other defended the need to fight the enemy. The townspeople demanded decisive action. The sovereign took the side of the people. Russian regiments reached the Oka River and took up defensive positions "along the bank." The Grand Duke's brother Andrei Vasilyevich moved to Tarusa, his son Ivan Ivanovich Molodoy stood at Serpukhov, the sovereign himself - in the Kolomna fortress.

Khan Akhmat, having received information from his scouts that the enemy had occupied the fords on the Oka, decided to bypass it from the west. The Horde went through the territory of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (also Russian lands) and crossed the Oka to the south of Kaluga. Akhmat hoped to help Kazimir, but he was distracted by the attack of the Crimeans on Podolia. Then the khan of the Big Horde decided to attack Moscow through the border Russian-Lithuanian river Ugra. It is possible that he did not plan a deep invasion, hoping to "reason" Ivan Vasilyevich with a powerful military demonstration.

Ivan III, having received information about the enemy's maneuvers, sent his son Ivan and brother Andrey Menshoy to Kaluga and to the bank of the Ugra. On September 30, he returned to Moscow "for council and thought". The great sovereign received a unanimous answer, "that he should stand firmly for Orthodox Christianity against bezserlessness." At the same time, his brothers stopped the rebellion and joined with their squads to the common army. In early October, Russian regiments took up positions on the Ugra for 60 miles. All convenient crossings were occupied by outposts or whole regiments. The great sovereign himself stayed in Kremenets, about 50 km from the river. From here he could come to the rescue on any part of the "coast" and at the same time parry a blow from Lithuania. All attempts by the Horde to cross the river were repelled. The Grand Duke's troops pulled up artillery, erected additional fortifications, their positions became practically impregnable.

Russian troops on the Ugra for the first time massively used firearms weapon... In the regiments there were numerous detachments of "squeaks" - warriors, armed with hand squeaks, "hand arms". Artillery was also massively used: cannons and "mattresses" - short-barreled guns, which were beaten with "shot iron" (buckshot). "Squealers", gunners and archers stopped enemy attempts to cross the river. The Russian chronicler wrote: "... we beat many with arrows and pishchalmi, and their arrows were between our pads and no one was driven away." Obviously, the arrows of the Horde archers lost their effectiveness due to the flight range. Our riflemen were covered by the cavalry regiments of the nobles and the children of the boyars. There was also a third line of defense: behind the notches and palisades there was a "staff", a "trooper army" - the militia.

"Standing" lasted from October to November 1480. Akhmat lost the initiative, had no room for cavalry maneuver. The military demonstration had no effect. Attempts at negotiations have yielded nothing. Ivan Vasilievich did not break down. By November, the situation had deteriorated again. Winter came, the rivers "rose". The strong ice allowed the Horde cavalry to force the river in many places. Ugra has ceased to be a serious obstacle for the enemy, and the far-reaching Russian troops became vulnerable to a massive attack. The Grand Duke decided to gather the regiments scattered along the river into a fist, pull them back and give the enemy a decisive battle. The regiments were taken to Kremenets, and then to Borovsk. However, Akhmat did not dare to go for a breakthrough. Meanwhile, a Russian ship detachment led by Prince Vasily Zvenigorodsky descended along the Oka, then along the Volga and, with the support of the Crimean prince Nur-Devlet, defeated the Horde encampments and ravaged the capital of the Great Horde - New Saray. Also, there was a threat of an attack on the lands of the Great Horde, which were left practically without soldiers who left with Akhmat, Crimean Tatars and Nogais. The Horde troops suffered from diseases, lack of provisions and forage (Russian regiments were supplied from the reserves of the Grand Duke). On November 9-11, the khan began to withdraw troops from Ugra back to the Horde. On the way, the Horde ruined a number of Lithuanian cities (Russian cities). Among them was the legendary Kozelsk.

The Grand Duke of Lithuania did not come to the aid of his subjects. The great sovereign Ivan sent horse regiments led by his brothers and commanders in pursuit of the Horde. The Russian cavalry pursued the enemy on the heels. Akhmat did not dare to fight. His bloodless and discouraged troops left for the steppe. Thus, the Horde's rule over Russia officially ended. Akhmat dismissed the army, which was demoralized by an unsuccessful campaign. A year later, he was killed at his headquarters during an attack by the Nogai Murzas and the Tyumen Khan. The position of the Great Horde was undermined. Soon the Crimean Khanate destroyed the Big Horde. Russia continued to grow, annexing new lands, including the former Horde.



Russia. Kaluga region. Diorama of artist Pavel Ryzhenko in the museum complex "Great Standing on the Ugra River"
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/, https://encyclopedia.mil.ru/
52 comments
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 23 October 2020 06: 20 New
    16
    (Great Scythia - "Tartaria") were again united under the rule of one king.
    ... It's time for the author to publish essays on the history of Tartaria .. laughing
    1. Alexander Suvorov
      Alexander Suvorov 23 October 2020 06: 34 New
      21
      Yeah, after a cursory reading of the introduction, it immediately became clear that reading this nonsense and nonsense does not make any sense. This "Great Tartary" has already sore mouth, like a bitter radish, the author must be settled in the same room with the ukroistorik Bibik, they will argue about who was the first on the planet ancient Ukry or Tavro-Scythian Great Russians and who of them owns the right to dig the Black Sea. .. laughing
      1. Shurik70
        Shurik70 23 October 2020 23: 15 New
        0
        How many times have I seen this "miniature".
        And even from school days, there was a surprise in the completely identical equipment of the opposing troops.
        What is it? The mistake of the chronicler, in his monastery completely divorced from life and writing his work only from other people's retellings, or really centuries of constant conflicts / contacts gave rise to the same style and tactics ...
        1. Nazar
          Nazar 24 October 2020 09: 22 New
          +5
          Shurik70 - Colleague, you yourself correctly wrote: "... in his monastery completely divorced from life and writing his work only from other people's retellings" - the iconographer who created illustrations for the annals was not a front-line reporter and eyewitness of events, like the current E. Poddubny or A. Mamontov, he could never see a fully armed warrior in his entire life. The miniatures in the annals were created as if according to a "template", that is, the isographer was taught that a warrior is drawn in a certain way, the prince was also depicted not as a portrait of a particular prince, but as an image of a prince "in general", in other words, the artist had a set of stamps and it was they who and enjoyed it. Therefore, the warriors are the same on both sides - he could not draw others. Well, in addition, these drawings were created tens, or even hundreds of years after the events, so there is no need to look for artistic authenticity in the chronicle miniatures.
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 October 2020 07: 06 New
      +6
      Greetings, Alex!
      Do not be afraid that the cycle about "Tartaria" from the opinion branch will spend the night in the section "Istria" !!! laughing
      How to say at the request of workers !!! laughing
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 23 October 2020 08: 57 New
        27
        The author concocts fables and distorts the real story.
        In fact, the starting point of the development of mankind was the Paleolithic site of the super-ethnos of the ukroarians - mammoth hunters, which was excavated near the Chernigov village of Mezin.
        By the way, the ornaments on the mammoth bone found during its excavations were the world's first musical notations.
        The oldest temple on the planet is the Stone Tomb located in Ukraine (XII-ІІІ millennium BC). His priests on the ancient Zaporizhzhya land created a myth about the creation of the world and developed the foundations of religious thinking, which formed the basis of all existing world religions.
        Approximately in 5600 BC, an unprecedented settlement of representatives of the Nordic (Scythian-Trypillian, Pro-Ukrainian) race began from the territory of Ukraine. The Slavs settled in the center of Europe, the Celts (Western Scythians) and the Germans settled in the west, and the present Baltic Sea was named the Balts. Tokhars and Ainu reached China and Japan. The Aryans captured Afghanistan (which was then called Aria), Iran (Arian) and India (Arya Warta). The Sumerians / Samaras / Sumerians took control of Mesopotamia (Sumer) and pre-dynastic Egypt (Kemet).
        The ancient Ukrainian civilization gave the world Zoroaster, Buddha, Christ, Vishnu, Quetzalcoatl, Ataguchu, Itzamna and many other less well-known prophets.
        The founders of Rome, Romulus and Remus, came to the Apennines from the outskirts of the city of Romny, the dictator Sulla was born on the Poltava river Sula, and the first Egyptian pharaoh Menes came to the banks of the Nile from the town of Mena located on the Desna.
        The roots of the Sumerian civilization are located in the Dnipropetrovsk region, on the Samara River. The Ukrainian origin of Buddha is convincingly confirmed by the numerous Polissya toponyms "Buda" and "Budishche".
        The name of the Hindu god Vishnu comes from the Ukrainian word "cherry", and the ancient Pan was named after the Ukrainian priests, who sang in the shadow of the cherry orchards.
        Khan and Cossack Mamai came from the ancient Scythian-Aryan clan Kiyat, which gave 16 dynasties of the Kiyanid kings in Persia (II-I millennium BC), the dynasty of the Egyptian pharaoh Kiyan (II millennium BC) and the great Ukrainian Genghis Khan ...
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 23 October 2020 09: 16 New
          24
          He paused on purpose.
          From everything written above, one could laugh, but laughing is not worth it.
          Despite the seemingly complete wildness of such "theories", a certain part of society is ready to accept them. The writing about sacred culture, as history shows, turns from an anecdote into a tendency when politicians begin to play on such prejudices and cultivate ignorance and these prejudices, directing social discontent in the channel of chauvinism and national enmity.
          Leon Feuchtwanger once described this process in his novel The Oppermann Family, demonstrating how the patriotic legend of Arminius Hermanz was used to inculcate Nazi ideas.
          Therefore, the "creativity" of such "Samsonovs" and other "roosters" with "babies" is by no means harmless.
          1. Alex013
            Alex013 23 October 2020 12: 30 New
            +8
            And I look at my friends, there are more and more of them every year. They started with Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, a member of the "secret order of theosophists" and ended with Nosovsky ... But they deny classical history, and without arguments from their side.
        2. Undecim
          Undecim 23 October 2020 10: 32 New
          18
          Oh, I see a minus. Not otherwise, as a competing superethnos was noted.
        3. andrew42
          andrew42 23 October 2020 10: 32 New
          -7
          To throw out a child with water, you don't need much mind. And in the foolishness on the basis of "'re coming out-Aryans ", too, one should know the measure. For the Aryans are the ancestors of the present Muscovite ethnos, and many other modern ones, and they are not guilty of anything in front of you for the modern "ukro-Aryan" obscurantism, and for the "true-Aryan" Nazism is also not to blame. And, by the way, the Slavic tribes had a direct analogue of Vishnu - Vyshen, the god of the highest justice, that is, Truth, is a component of the Supreme Triglav. From the concept of this essence, Christians ultimately attached the Holy Spirit to the Trinity.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 23 October 2020 11: 26 New
            10
            for modern "ukro-Aryan" obscurantism
            Ukrainian in comparison with "Muscovite" - babble.
            1. andrew42
              andrew42 23 October 2020 12: 29 New
              -6
              Undecim, your position is clear without any babble: ethnogenesis in your "universe" is absent as a phenomenon. Only a fanatical "fighter against heresy" like you can be worse than the alternative. If the alternativeist, possibly, creates a false culture, then the stubborn anti-alternativeists are ready to deprive us of historical culture altogether. You still forbid telling fairy tales, burn the "Golden Cockerel" and Tsar-Saltan and Gorbunk in the bargain, or even better, add them to the list of prohibited literature - they do not correspond to your "historical concept". Nobody forbids joking, - you mustn't be bullied, gentlemen "Zhvanetsky" For in your scornful criticism of "heretics" you yourself reach the point of absurdity.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 23 October 2020 13: 23 New
                12
                Something you quickly fell into hysterics, you are our "Mokovitsky" aryan. Where did you see the denial of ethnogenesis, calls for the prohibition of folklore in general and fairy tales in particular, as well as calls for the burning of the Golden Cockerel and an attempt on historical culture?
                And what is my, shall we say, feuilleton, more absurd than Samsonov's articles? Or is it that you have Aryan blood?
                1. andrew42
                  andrew42 23 October 2020 14: 43 New
                  -6
                  Hysterics? No, I haven't. Judging by the hasty labeling (you are our "Muscovite" arias), you are hysterical, Undecim. - In style: Who? How dare you?
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 23 October 2020 14: 56 New
                    +7
                    Clear. Judging by your remarks, this is no longer my part. All the best.
              2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 October 2020 17: 51 New
                +6
                ... If the alternativeist, possibly, creates a false culture, then the stubborn anti-alternativeists are ready to deprive us of historical culture altogether. You still forbid telling tales,burn the Golden Cockerel and Tsar-Saltan and Gorbunk in the bargain, or even better, add them to the list of prohibited literature - they do not correspond to your "historical concept". Nobody forbids joking, - you mustn't be bullied, gentlemen "Zhvanetsky". For in your derisory criticism of "heretics" you yourself reach the point of absurdity.
                Leave the rooster !!!


                Rural settlement of Shemakha!
          2. Hantengri
            Hantengri 23 October 2020 11: 31 New
            14
            Quote: andrew42
            And, by the way, the Slavic tribes had a direct analogue of Vishnu - Vyshen, the god of the highest justice, that is, Truth, is a component of the Supreme Triglav.

            That's right, because, as every alternatively gifted person knows, the basic law of linguistics says: "What is similar in consonance is the same thing." An analogue of Krishna was Kryshen - the patron of crafts, trade and protector of livestock. Shiva - Vshiven is the destroyer god who, at the appointed hour, will destroy the manifest world, crushing it, like a louse. Indra - Drynen - the god of thunder, whose duties included periodically hitting the heavenly basin with a club (drin), thereby producing loud sounds. And only poor fellow Kali, contrary to the rule, somehow became Baba Yaga. Although, perhaps Baba Yaga originated from Kali Yuga, i.e. Yaga is a woman in the age of whose name we live.
            1. andrew42
              andrew42 23 October 2020 12: 50 New
              -7
              Now I will definitely add an article. By contradiction. Although Samsonov's shoving of Tartary into all the articles has already set the teeth on edge, but .. Tartary is better than a dryagva in beaver huts. It is better to have a concept of the historical cultural development of your people, than to live in essence with the refusal of such a foolish people.
          3. The comment was deleted.
        4. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 23 October 2020 10: 46 New
          16
          Quote: Undecim
          Ancient Ukrainian civilization gave the world Christ,

          Let me disagree with you:





          Just in case - a joke! wink
          1. frog
            frog 25 October 2020 14: 42 New
            +1
            Worthy !!! Congratulations!!!!
        5. BAI
          BAI 23 October 2020 11: 26 New
          +9
          The founders of Rome, Romulus and Remus, came to the Apennines from the outskirts of the city of Romny, the dictator Sulla was born on the Poltava river Sula, and the first Egyptian pharaoh Menes came to the banks of the Nile from the town of Mena located on the Desna.

          Unfortunately, the list is not complete. It has also been proven that people from Galicia settled Gaul (France) and Galilee (Middle East). As evidenced by the similarity of names.
          The similarity of names is generally "very strong evidence" (quotation marks especially for fans of Tartary), even though there is such a thing as a homonym.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 23 October 2020 11: 51 New
            -11 qualifying.
            Quote: BAI
            The similarity of the names is generally "very strong evidence" (quotes especially for fans of Tartary), even though they exist

            some are used to throwing names around, but every word and name has its own story. Halos are rings of light around a central luminary. The fact that many Galias are noted throughout the world indicates that such an order was in ancient times, both above and below. This was noted by the cartographer Ryabtsev and the historians Fomenko and Nosovsky, and this is a fact.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 23 October 2020 12: 14 New
              15
              Halos are rings of light around a central luminary
              And this word came from the Ukrainian female name Galya.
              This means that the first astronomers were dreaneukras.
              1. Bar1
                Bar1 23 October 2020 12: 45 New
                -5
                Quote: Undecim
                Halos are rings of light around a central luminary
                And this word came from the Ukrainian female name Galya.
                This means that the first astronomers were dreaneukras.

                there are many names from Halo it
                -Angela-Anti Halo
                -Angela Anti Halo
                -Angelina-Anti Halo
                -Neglinka is not a Halo
                a lot of that ...
            2. Alexander Suvorov
              Alexander Suvorov 23 October 2020 12: 18 New
              19
              Bar1 (Timur)
              This was noted by the scientist-cartographer Ryabtsev and the historians Fomenko and Nosovsky.
              Oooh ... heavy fool artillery pulled up. laughing
              And this is a fact.
              Well, except for fool alternatively gifted!
              1. Bar1
                Bar1 23 October 2020 12: 45 New
                -9
                knock yourself on the head.
            3. BAI
              BAI 23 October 2020 13: 17 New
              13
              The fact that many Galias are noted throughout the world indicates that such an order was in ancient times, both above and below. This was noted by the cartographer Ryabtsev and the historians Fomenko and Nosovsky, and this is a fact.

              You can believe me that the name of the Voblya river has nothing to do with the ancient Slavic exclamation of admiration and surprise. And this is indeed a fact.
              1. Bar1
                Bar1 23 October 2020 15: 17 New
                -3
                Quote: BAI
                The fact that many Galias are noted throughout the world indicates that such an order was in ancient times, both above and below. This was noted by the cartographer Ryabtsev and the historians Fomenko and Nosovsky, and this is a fact.

                You can believe me that the name of the Voblya river has nothing to do with the ancient Slavic exclamation of admiration and surprise. And this is indeed a fact.

                Jewish or Finnish? Oichniks also like to deduce everything.
              2. The comment was deleted.
      2. parusnik
        parusnik 23 October 2020 18: 09 New
        10
        laughing Obscurantism on Fridays becomes regular, judging by the comments ... laughing
    3. Bar1
      Bar1 23 October 2020 11: 16 New
      -3


      tense tradition, that's right, do not relax.
      1. BAI
        BAI 23 October 2020 11: 28 New
        +8
        tense traditions, that's right

        Certainly. When China has become a river, it is annoying. Moreover, according to rhyme, instead of China and Cupid, you can use. Not a classic rhyme, but still.
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 23 October 2020 11: 41 New
          0
          Quote: BAI
          tense traditions, that's right

          Certainly. When China has become a river, it is annoying. Moreover, according to rhyme, instead of China and Cupid, you can use. Not a classic rhyme, but still.

          you seem to have decided to criticize Tyutchev? But Tyutchev was a diplomat and a poet, and who are you? Belinsky of you will not work.
          China is not a river and a river is not China, you guessed it?
          1. andrew42
            andrew42 23 October 2020 12: 38 New
            -5
            Tradikov-fans also have Tyutchev as an ignoramus. There is nothing to be surprised at. The "Traditions" want only one thing - that the historical picture they have built in their heads does not change NEVER, under any circumstances, God forbid! Any newly received information should not destroy this picture in any way! Drevlyans should live in trees, and Krivichi should be constantly crooked with a hangover. That's all they have in store for us.
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 23 October 2020 12: 55 New
              -5
              here read the "argumentation" of the local dwelling. There is not a single argument in the case, only defamation and stupidity recklessly. Normal argumentation, I recognized that China is not a river and on this basis made a stuffing. , for some reason, these locals do not care about the Russian capital. And that's ALL from this community.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 23 October 2020 14: 58 New
                10
                here read the "argumentation" of the local dwelling. There is not a single argument in the case
                Bar, have you heard about Russell's kettle?
              2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 October 2020 20: 10 New
                +7
                China is not the Timur river, China is a lake!
                China Lake near Odessa!

                China Lake, near Odessa Ukraine !!! lol
            2. BAI
              BAI 23 October 2020 13: 25 New
              10
              The "Traditions" want only one thing - that the historical picture they have built in their heads does not change NEVER, under any circumstances, God forbid!

              EXACTLY! Traditions scoff at true alternative historians, do not let their teachings into the broad masses! Shame and shame! Obscurantism! As if we are not living in the enlightened 21st century. They clamp their mouths on the natives of the psychiatric hospital, but nobody canceled the freedom of speech!
          2. BAI
            BAI 23 October 2020 13: 20 New
            +6
            But Tyutchev was a diplomat and drinking,And who are you?

            Exactly. For the sake of a catchphrase I will not regret my mother, father. This is about the piits. What did Tyutchev have to do with geography and history? To bring his verse "for a word of mouth" as an argument?
            If Lyuba sings that Catherine gave Alaska (without specifying which one), then that now Alexander 2 did not give Alaska?
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 23 October 2020 14: 29 New
              -4
              Quote: BAI
              But Tyutchev was a diplomat and drinking,And who are you?

              Exactly. For the sake of a catchphrase I will not regret my mother, father. This is about the piits. What did Tyutchev have to do with geography and history? To bring his verse "for a word of mouth" as an argument?
              If Lyuba sings that Catherine gave Alaska (without specifying which one), then that now Alexander 2 did not give Alaska?

              exactly who is this Tyutchev? If not with us, then against us. And if not with us means a clown, parsley, like this to Lyuba - "... from the Volga to the Yenisei, this is Russ," and to the Volga and after the Yenisei it is no longer Rossei in their language. for Tyutchev and against Lyuba.
            2. Kwas
              Kwas 24 October 2020 19: 26 New
              +1
              Exactly! And someone else was shouting "Rossei, Rossei, from the Volga to the Yenisei"!
      2. Kwas
        Kwas 24 October 2020 19: 23 New
        0
        In general, if you read it carefully, it is rather a declaration of imperial dreams!
  2. Aitvaras
    Aitvaras 23 October 2020 12: 56 New
    -4
    Too blissfully the Author writes how the princes of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania themselves asked for the great hand, i.e. from . "at the request of the workers", before that, the Lithuanian princes burned Moscow more than once in the 14th century, in the battles of Orsha and Ula in the 16th century, the "hand" was thoroughly battered, according to the eternal peace of Polyanov in the 17th century, after another thrashing g. Smolensk was recognized as Lithuania. In the 18th and 19th centuries, the Nes raised restless rebellions against the "royal throne".
  3. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 23 October 2020 12: 57 New
    +3
    A year later, he was killed at his headquarters during an attack by the Nogai Murzas and the Tyumen Khan.
    Ivak (the Tyumen Khan) sent a messenger to Moscow to say: "Your and my enemy, the villain of Russia, lies in the grave."
  4. Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 23 October 2020 15: 43 New
    12
    The recipe for writing historical articles "from Samsonov". laughing
    Take a school history textbook, rewrite the corresponding chapter in it, add "Tartaria" and "Scythian-Siberian-Russo-Aryans" to your taste, send it for publication. The recipe is time-tested, works flawlessly, I recommend it to everyone. laughing
    The information presented in the article, those that do not relate, in fact, to historical information, are available in any textbook, and the corresponding articles in the Wiki are just a university course in comparison with this "creation". Conclusion: this is being written and published for the sole purpose of "attaching" pseudo-historical remarks to known historical events.
    Question: why?
    The answer is already, in general, obvious. Apparently the author likes what he sees in Ukraine and he wants the same thing to prevail here. And what is beautiful - torchlight processions, the Russians are the coolest (within the borders of the Russian Federation, of course), it is possible to distribute lyuli to "foreigners" on completely legal grounds (who will be this "foreigner" Samsonov hopes, probably, to determine independently), well, to take away, of course, from them everything acquired by the robbery of the Scythian-Aryan super-ethnos. "
    For those who have not yet understood what is happening, I will explain in a nutshell.
    These creations have nothing to do with history; educating people about historical events is not part of the author's goal. This is pure politics and nothing else.
    For this I say goodbye. Look for me on the next branch. smile hi
  5. Ryazan87
    Ryazan87 23 October 2020 16: 43 New
    +8
    Islamization and Arabization destroyed the Horde (more precisely, the Clan of the direct heir of late Scythia: “The Secret of the Russian Horde and Great Tartary”). Moscow became the new center of control of the northern civilization.

    Oh, Samsonov))
  6. Trojan_wolf
    Trojan_wolf 23 October 2020 18: 18 New
    +2
    Something with something, I'm pretty confused.
  7. Doliva63
    Doliva63 23 October 2020 20: 56 New
    +3
    "The sovereign took the side of the people."
    The author of jokes does not write? laughing
  8. Diviz
    Diviz 24 October 2020 00: 13 New
    0
    On the map of Tartary, not the horde, but the horda. And the map of Tartary is not invented by the Russians, but by the invaders. Why be hostage to other people's whims. Where are the cards with the names of places in Glagolitic, runes.
  9. Viktor_Chumak
    Viktor_Chumak 24 October 2020 15: 02 New
    -7
    Dreary bast shoe delirium.
    The son of the owner of the Moscow ulus, Khan Ulu-Mukhamed (the so-called "Prince" Vasily the Dark) was Khan Yakub (the so-called "Prince" Ivan III), a representative of the Chingizid dynasty.
    About the invented "Moscow principality" and "Moscow Russia" I wrote:
    http://bolshoyforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=608857.0
  10. Sergey Sfiedu
    Sergey Sfiedu 25 October 2020 05: 08 New
    +6
    "The Mystery of the Russian Horde and the Great Tartary" - how long will this guano be published on sat?
  11. Icelord
    Icelord 26 October 2020 08: 45 New
    -1
    Quote: BAI
    The fact that many Galias are noted throughout the world indicates that such an order was in ancient times, both above and below. This was noted by the cartographer Ryabtsev and the historians Fomenko and Nosovsky, and this is a fact.

    You can believe me that the name of the Voblya river has nothing to do with the ancient Slavic exclamation of admiration and surprise. And this is indeed a fact.

    Shield you say? And I thought it was from there laughing ... Bravo, you've found a great example. Otherwise, you can't prove to the wiseacres that Etruscan does not mean "these are Russians"
  12. Raphael Wahitov
    Raphael Wahitov 5 November 2020 09: 27 New
    0
    The Russians fought with allied forces behind enemy lines. Two separatists Rus-Russian Tatars and Crimea-Crimean Tatars jointly destroyed the Horde (Center). Russian Tatars stood on the Ugra, and the Crimean Tatars stabbed in the back and in order to protect his capital, Khan Akhmat was forced to turn his troops against the Crimea. And so the Russians were always helped by someone behind enemy lines to win and conquer the land. If we compare with the conquests of the Tatar-Mongols who won at the expense of their intelligence and military valor, the Russians waged a vile and insidious war, setting peoples against each other and reaping the fruits themselves. Well, like the Chinese philosopher "a monkey watches on a mountain as two tigers fight in the valley."