The network discusses the statement of the Artsakh Ministry of Defense on "defenders of the Armenian statehood"

The publication of a selection of photographs of servicemen, which is accompanied by the following signature: "Defenders of Armenian statehood", is being discussed online.

This signature draws special attention to itself due to the fact that hostilities are being conducted outside Armenia - mainly in the regions adjacent to the territory of the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic (Republic of Artsakh).

That is why questions have arisen on the Internet that the Artsakh department is positioning the actions of the army as the protection of the Armenian statehood. Especially - due to the fact that so far the Armenian authorities have not recognized Nagorno-Karabakh as an independent republic, especially as a republic within Armenia.

The NKR authorities, apparently, believe that the NKR is an outpost in the confrontation with Azerbaijan. And if this outpost does not stand, then difficult times, to put it mildly, may come for the Armenian statehood. But here it should be recalled that, firstly, Armenia is a member of the CSTO and an attack on it will be considered as an attack on the entire CSTO, and secondly, Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev has repeatedly stressed that he is not going to conquer the territory of another state.

Let us remind that Armenian President Armen Sarkisian stated that Yerevan will agree to the recognition of Nagorno-Karabakh as an independent republic if it understands that Azerbaijan is not going to stop the military operation in the region.

Against this background, the Ministry of Defense of Azerbaijan publishes a report that the positions of the Azerbaijani troops were fired upon in the Goygol region of the republic from the Kelbajar region. This region in the NKR is considered to be its territory belonging to Shahumyan and Martakert regions. In Baku, they say that the shelling was carried out using 82 and 120-mm mortars.

Comments

[The leader of the Redskins]

In the first photo, the boy looks rather scared.

[Livonetc]

It is these who are now dying on both sides.
And two especially important roosters revel in the importance of their "historical" mission.

[APASUS]

Quote: Livonetc

It is these who are now dying on both sides.
And two especially important roosters revel in the importance of their "historical" mission.

They have driven themselves into a corner. Now any step towards a truce and they will be demolished from the throne within the country by political opponents.

[VoroncoV]

Quote: APASUS

They have driven themselves into a corner. Now any step towards a truce and they will be demolished from the throne within the country by political opponents.

Well, Aliyev will definitely fly off, this adventure with the invasion is too bloody and with great losses .. Well, and Pashinyan, something is spinning like that .. Russia, thank God, is watching this bloody fight and is not going to separate it .. Let the bloody park be released and then we will calm 30 years old.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: VoroncoV

Well, Pashinyan, something is spinning like that ..

The term of Pashinyan's business trip to Armenia is coming to an end ... however, the main task has not been achieved - to involve the Russian Federation in this conflict against Turkey, incl.

[hydrox]

You are right :: the last sum of travel allowances from Soros should be a bullet in Nikolka's forehead, which came from nowhere as revenge for the "innocently killed" Armenians and Azerbaijanis ...
Let's not forget that this is not a business trip, but a coup - and I would very much like to take a look at a Russian government official who RECOGNIZED this coup as a legal way to change power ...
Probably, there will be those who recognize this RECOGNITION as a mistake, but aren't there too many mistakes in the 20th year of the rule of THIS POWER, including thousands of corpses received as a result of the autumn opening for Russians of WASHING from Turkish resorts?

[Cottager452]

The most dangerous psychotype.
It would be nice to check for involvement in serial killings at the place of residence.

[Grits]

Quote: APASUS

Now any step towards a truce and they will be demolished from the throne inside the country by political opponents

The throne, of course, is much more important to them than the lives of the boys.

[hydrox]

But if Russia lasts a week or two with the introduction of troops into the NKR (with inevitable losses if only ground troops are used !!), then the villainous power of Pashinyan will end along with the statehood of Armenia - and this will be RIGHT and fair !!

[Grits]

Quote: hydrox

But if Russia lasts a week or two with the introduction of troops into the NKR (with inevitable losses if only ground troops are used !!), then the villainous power of Pashinyan will end along with the statehood of Armenia - and this will be RIGHT and fair !!

Apparently this is Putin's secret revenge and lesson to all Soros lovers

[hydrox]

And in war, all means are good, especially if these means are used to achieve OUR victory, even if without the demand of those who hold these funds in their hands ...

[Wertgan]

This is your turn of phrase: "if Russia holds out", it is not at all in the subject. Russia has no reason to enter there. After all, Pashinyan does not call her, as Assad did in Syria. He does not call on purpose, since he is advised to do so by the amers' advisers who brought him to power. Do we remember that he came to power as a result of the next Orange Revolution? And the people applauded him .. Apparently the condition that the Americans set for him was to merge Armenia in the war for Karabakh. What he does successfully. If it were otherwise, he would long ago have turned to Russia for diplomatic and other assistance.

[hydrox]

Russia does not care about Pashinyan if the introduction of our peacekeepers into the NKR can maintain the status quo in this region.
But it seems that now it will be a belated step, and Aliyev gets carte blanche ...

[Wertgan]

How do you know what to spit? The deployment of peacekeepers must have a reason and a basis.

[hydrox]

And therefore, it does not matter that Pashinyan is a trashman, a state-owned sip, our enemy and the leader of the Caudla, trampling the flag of Russia and calling us invaders.
And let this crowd be brainless, Akela-Pashinyan will be responsible, and he, as you know, LOST!
And to act as peacekeepers and shed OUR blood to protect our ENEMIES - we still need to look for such fools :: let the Pashinyans recruit them in the USA - there is a HUGE and prosperous Armenian diaspora.

[Real Pilot]

Young people are dying ...
It's a pity for the guys, but their fathers and grandfathers lived in a single country and did not fight!
And only this will save the peoples - there is no reason for enmity

[Wertgan]

Unfortunately, this is the fate of everyone who forgets about their Fatherland. For example, I have neighbors in the country. Both Armenians and Azerbaijanis. Everyone is sure that their homelands are their small and proud countries. None of them recalls that the fatherland, from the point of view of the whole world, is what remained after the Second World War. That is, a single country - the USSR.

[Catfish]

And I generally thought it was a girl.

[Temples]

With a mustache .... You have a strange idea of ​​the female sex.

[Catfish]

My idea of ​​the female sex is quite traditional for a normal man, but I did not notice a mustache there.

[Kot_Kuzya]

Some Caucasian women grow mustaches.

[Daniil Konovalenko]

Why does Aliyev need problems in the form of the Republic of Armenia? He wants to recapture "his" territory, inhabited by Armenians. For example, he will recapture the territory, what will he do with the population? Although Aliyev's statements are very interesting. He says that the war is being waged against Pashinyan's "Sorov" regime, but why on the territory of the NKR? And at the same time, the Republic of Armenia does not recognize the NKR, does not recognize its own people, that is, does Armenia recognize the NKR as an Azerbaijani territory, if so what prevents Pashinyan from mediating in negotiations between the NKR and Azerbaijan?

[Asad]

They are squeezing out the population. The Armenians should not remain, expect nothing good!

[New Year day]

Quote: ASAD

The Armenians should not remain, expect nothing good!

as well as the Azerbaijanis, who were squeezed out of these territories by about 1 million.

Quote: ASAD

They are squeezing out the population.

then the Armenians, today - their

[Beringovsky]

The Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region was created from the predominantly Armenian-populated part of Nagorno-Karabakh.
According to the 1923 census, Armenians accounted for 94% of the NKAO; of the remaining 6%, the overwhelming majority were Azerbaijanis.
In 1979, the population of NKAO was 162 thousand. Of them 37 Azerbaijanis (23%).
In 1989, respectively, 189 thousand, and of them 40 thousand Azerbaijanis (22%).
Where did you get the absolutely wild figure of a million (!!!!)? This is 5 times more than the entire population of Karabakh, and 25 times more than all Azerbaijanis who lived there.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Beringovsky

This is 5 times more than the entire population of Karabakh, and 25 times more than all Azerbaijanis who lived there.

You have forgotten about the so-called "NKR security belt", these are the seven Azerbaijani regions occupied by the Armenians.

[Lyuba1965_01]

According to the censuses of the first half of the 19th century, about a third of the population of the entire territory of the entire Karabakh (together with its flat part to the mouth of the Kura River) were Armenians, and about two-thirds were Azerbaijanis. And only then did the Armenians start flocking here in search of better lands.

[Beringovsky]

Well, if you go far, then the Armenians in these places from the 12th century BC. live. And the Turks began to appear here only after two thousand years, and even then only occasionally. And who drove whom from these lands later is another question.
Well, could you please tell us what kind of census they are? And it somehow smells like fake. Do not take it for work.

[New Year day]

Quote: Beringovsky

Well, if you go far, then the Armenians in these places from the 12th century BC. live.

With such arguments, Pashinyan was laughed at in Europe, argumentation does not pass. With this point of view, the entire globe can be reshaped. For example, are Italians like the ancient Romans? And they live on their lands

[Beringovsky]

Who laughed at him in Europe? Those who recognized the independence of Kosovo? Funny ...
I would like to quote here from an article by Michael Rubin, where he argues in favor of recognizing the independence of Karabakh, but for some reason the censorship does not allow it. The first time I come across this on VO.

Actually, taking into account the recent wishes from Pompeo to the Armenians of victory, Rubin's article no longer seems so passable.

[New Year day]

Quote: Beringovsky

Who laughed at him in Europe?

Search Press Conference

[Lyuba1965_01]

Well, let's say, not from the 12th century BC, but from about the 7th century BC. They came to this territory as migrants and Armenized the Albanians and Gargar-Albanians who lived here. It must be said that, in the opinion of many scientists, the Gargars in no way belonged to the Armenians, but were one of the groups of the Dagestan-Nakhs. Karabakh was at various times a part of Atropatena, Caucasian Albania, Persia, Armenia, Turkey. But! Initially, Azerbaijan was the name of the Atropatena region (Northern Media), which translates as "land of Aturpat". So, when Karabakh was part of Atropatena, Azerbaijanis already lived here as permanent residents. BC. In Atropatene, there was a common language (Koine) - Middle Idian, whose descendant in the Middle Ages was the Azeri (Asari) language, which disappeared due to the Turkization of this region. If we take the genetics of the Azerbaijani people, it is mixed. It contains the genes of the Oghuz, Polovtsian, Kipchaks, Albanians, Huns, dinners, Talysh. But the majority of Azerbaijanis have haplotypes of the autochthonous peoples of the Caucasus, which emphasizes their great role in the formation of the people. And, if we proceed from genetics, then Azerbaijanis, to some extent, are the descendants of the Albanians, whom the Armenian migrants Armenianized. As for the census, I will give the link tomorrow. It’s late now, and I don’t usually save links, so I’ll have to remember and search. But I promise that the link will not be to az. Sites or books.

[Beringovsky]

Not certainly in that way. The fact is that for the 7th century BC there are many different sources, but the movement of such masses of Armenians has not been recorded anywhere. It is unlikely that the states that existed at that time would have allowed such masses to pass unhindered through their territory.
Therefore, there remains the only period of the 12th century BC, the invasion of the Sea Peoples, the collapse of the Hittite empire, in general a mess in the region. This is well shown by Dyakonov.
As for the fact that Azerbaijanis are the heirs of the peoples who inhabited this region since ancient times, I fully agree. But the Armenians are also their descendants to the same extent. Both of them are incomparably closer to each other than either of them to the same Turks. It's just that some have started speaking in Armenian, others in Turkic, and still others still use their native language. Some became Christians, others converted to Islam. This is of course so, very simplistic. It's just that this section is not really the place to discuss it in detail. It would be nice if someone wrote an article on this issue in the History section.

[Anton Yu]

Is there any evidence that today's Armenians have anything to do with the ancient Armenians?

[Lyuba1965_01]

That link is not ours, but I will look for it.
But I came across a rather curious document: "Description of the Karabakh province", compiled in 1823, at the direction of the commander-in-chief of the Russian troops in the Caucasus, General Yermolov.
Based on this document, it turns out that even after 18 years after the conclusion of the Kurekchay agreement, only 8,4 percent of the indigenous inhabitants of Karabakh accounted for the non-Turkic population.
And they were exactly Albanians.
Likewise, the Armenian historian B. Ishkhanyan in the book "The Peoples of the Caucasus" writes: "According to the idea of ​​historical antiquity, the real homeland of the Armenians, the so-called Great Armenia, is outside Russia, more precisely in Asia Minor. As for the Armenians living on the territory Nagorno-Karabakh, some of them were natives, from
an ancient Albanian tribe that preserved Christianity. Another part of the population is refugees from Iran and Turkey, who, fleeing attacks and persecution, found refuge for themselves in the lands of Azerbaijan "(" Peoples of the Caucasus ". Petrograd, 1916, p. 18).

[Fon elia]

About 800000 refugees from 7 adjacent districts around Karabakh. And in general, with refugees from Armenia itself, about a million souls.

[Vadim237]

In Karabakh, only 150000 people lived before the war - the population of an average city.

[Beringovsky]

In 1989, 5 million 800 thousand Azerbaijanis lived in Azerbaijan. This is what happens, only in 7, mainly rural areas, lived 1/8 of all residents of Azerbaijan? !!!
Yes, this population density is worse than in Holland. Well, who invented these numbers? It should be somehow more believable.

[1976AG]

It will recognize independence if it understands that Azerbaijan will not abandon the use of force .... Is it possible that Aliyev's words and actions can be interpreted in two ways ?? How can you hope that the force operation will stop?

[Mayor lee]

Negotiations took place only between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Puppet NKR is not a party to the negotiations

[credo]

Quote: Daniil Konovalenko

Why does Aliyev need problems in the form of the Republic of Armenia? He wants to recapture "his" territory, inhabited by Armenians. For example, he will recapture the territory, what will he do with the population? Although Aliyev's statements are very interesting. He says that the war is being waged against Pashinyan's "Sorov" regime, but why on the territory of the NKR? And at the same time, the Republic of Armenia does not recognize the NKR, does not recognize its own people, that is, does Armenia recognize the NKR as an Azerbaijani territory, if so what prevents Pashinyan from mediating in negotiations between the NKR and Azerbaijan?

Pashinyan is hampered by a wide split, in the common people called multi-vector, and subordination to the West.

[hydrox]

He is old to do such a twine - it will break.
On the other hand: over these centuries, 40 million Armenians with pleasure (and always with profit!) Have scattered all over the globe and do not suffer from any "Armenian" statehood, rightly believing that Armenians can gather in a handful ONLY at the hand of a "big brother "and nobody will tolerate the Armenian statehood, except Russia - look at Armenia - empty territories!

[Odysseus]

Quote: Daniil Konovalenko

The territory, for example, will be recaptured, what will be done with the population?

Even before the war there was a scanty population (and people wanted to leave there), now there is no one left at all. Those who remained will leave after the army. Watch a video from the occupied villages and cities. Just an empty land. Without people.

Quote: Daniil Konovalenko

That is, Armenia recognizes the NKR as an Azerbaijani territory, if so, what prevents Pashinyan from mediating in the negotiations between NKR and Azerbaijan?

Azerbaijan refuses to negotiate with its own territory.

[izGOI]

If 1) deploy Russian peacekeepers on the borders of the NKAO for 1985 (possibly by exchanging the Shusha region, previously inhabited by Azeris, for the Shahumyan-rural, with a predominance of Armenians)
2) Recognize cultural and, in part, economic autonomy for the NKAO and limit as much as possible the influence of Yerevan on Stepanakert.
THEN: in a year they will go to each other's bazaar, in two they will start trading at each other's bazaars, in five they will sit down at a common table, in ten mixed weddings will sound.
I know what I'm writing. He lived with those and others side by side for 35 years.

[Megatron]

Why do we need all this?
The union ended and the friendship of peoples too.
Let yourself with a mustache.

[Egor53]

If Armenia recognizes Nagorno-Karabakh, then it will automatically withdraw from the CSTO.

[Observer2014]

Quote: Egor53

If Armenia recognizes Nagorno-Karabakh, then it will automatically withdraw from the CSTO.

Sorry At first I misunderstood you, yes, because Armenia was accepted there under certain conditions.

[LiSiCyn]

Quote: Egor53

If Armenia recognizes Nagorno-Karabakh, then it will automatically withdraw from the CSTO.

Why? No, I'm really curious?

[Hypertension]

Quote: Egor53

If Armenia recognizes Nagorno-Karabakh, then it will automatically withdraw from the CSTO.

Is this written in the CSTO charter?

[venik]

Quote: Egor53

If Armenia recognizes Nagorno-Karabakh, then it will automatically withdraw from the CSTO.

=========
Is not a fact! If it just "recognizes" - that's one thing! And if it includes a "warring territory" - then YES! May have problems!

[DAQ]

In this case, it does not matter whether Armenia will include Karabakh in its composition or not. The important thing is that no one recognizes this. Russia does not recognize it, and it will not ensure territorial integrity (keeping Karabakh within Armenia).

Here the situation in general may change radically. If the Armenians feel that they are losing Karabakh, they can take a desperate step. They may also try to launch deep tank strikes deep into Azerbaijan. Let me remind you that not the entire Armenian army defends Karabakh. We know about the fact that Azerbaijan was preparing for an offensive. Is the echeloned defense ready from the Armenians? It is unlikely that they were preparing for this.
If there is nothing to lose, they may be overwhelmed by everything, in any case, the territory of Armenia itself will not be lost.

[Keyser soze]

If Armenia recognizes Nagorno-Karabakh, then it will automatically withdraw from the CSTO.

Yes, it's a big deal - the CSTO is complete bullshit, one way or another. If the Armenians lose the war in Karabakh, they will have to look for a new ally capable of more than “concern”. There China, the USA, Iran eventualno .... all to whom Erdogad does not order. The new ruler of Transcaucasia is Erdogan, so powerful allies are needed in the fight against him.

[d4rkmesa]

Why bullshit, and exchange of experience? Who are the exercises for?

[Beringovsky]

And NATO is not bullshit? Remind us who helped the Amers when they were beaten in Vietnam?
Who fit in for England in the Falklands?
And in words, when it's safe, everyone is brave and friendly. Let me remind you that when explosions began to thunder in Spain, the Spaniards quickly withdrew their troops from Iraq, despite the discontent of the United States.

[Keyser soze]

And NATO is not bullshit?

Where did I write NATO, Alexey? Judging by the fact that it cannot resolve the conflict between the Greeks and the Turks, NATO is also bullshit, but in a different way. But I wrote this here a hundred times.

I wrote - China, USA, Iran ... an economic ally, like the EU.
You have to admit that you cannot help Armenia in any way - neither militarily nor economically. All this time, while the hostilities are underway, transport workers from Turkey and Israel are flying to Azerbaijan. Soldiers, ammunition and powerful support are coming. Turkish asker is based in Azerbaijan and helps in the war.

So Armenia needs a real ally, not the CSTO bullshit.

[Crash]

Has anyone already attacked Armenia? This war is going on inside Azerbaijan. So there is no need for pathos

[Buka001]

Can decent countries in the CSTO still apologize to Armenia ??? Lost your sense of smell !! Hmm, he untied the pandora's box, giving you the promised land in the Azerbaijani lands, King Father. They should also be protected. And the Armenians will calmly flirt with the West and burn the flags of Russia on the Maidans. This is such an Armenian thank you. Will not pass this time

[andreykolesov123]

Quote: Keyser Soze

So Armenia needs a real ally, not the CSTO bullshit.

Are Bulgarians not an ally? Will a Bulgarian soldier go to die in the Caucasus Mountains?

[Megatron]

"Bulgarian soldier" is the same as the phrase "gypsy soldier", the effectiveness is the same.

[andreykolesov123]

Quote: Megatron

"Bulgarian soldier" is the same as the phrase "gypsy soldier", the effectiveness is the same.

Bulgare were noted in the wars with the Serbs, and with the Russians, Well, with the Chex in 1968, that is, they fought with the Slavs. The Russians fought the Turks for them. And so yes - brave men.

[credo]

Quote: Keyser Soze

If Armenia recognizes Nagorno-Karabakh, then it will automatically withdraw from the CSTO.

Yes, it's a big deal - the CSTO is complete bullshit, one way or another. If the Armenians lose the war in Karabakh, they will have to look for a new ally capable of more than “concern”. There China, the USA, Iran eventualno .... all to whom Erdogad does not order. The new ruler of Transcaucasia is Erdogan, so powerful allies are needed in the fight against him.

Should they ask Bulgaria for help?
Rumor has it that Bulgaria is a large and powerful sovereign state, and not some bullshit.

[Vadim237]

"If the Armenians lose the war in Karabakh" - Let them look for one hell, they will not find anyone, and they will lose Karabakh anyway, consider it an established fact.

[alexmach]

well, well .. The Ukrainians went to look for a new ally. In 2014, when Crimea was seized, especially ardent patriots declared with blue eyes "it is not profitable for us to fight with Russia for Crimea now, even if England and France, they signed the Budapest memorandum, so let them fight and return Crimea to us."

And the Armenians of the launch will look for an ally in whom it will be possible to spit at first and shout with a cat "help, the damned Turks are killing."

[Motorist]

Quote: Keyser Soze

CSTO complete bullshit

Eugene, it is clear that hatred for the other side of the Sea of ​​Marmara near you in blood. However, control yourself!

[Keyser soze]

Eugene, it is clear that hatred for the other side of the Sea of ​​Marmara is in your blood.

Thank you for understanding.

However, control yourself!

This is very difficult. Yes, and I presented what is seen from the side. Yes, and listened to Bagdasarov ... That would have bombed everything to Ankara ...

[New Year day]

Quote: Egor53

then it will automatically leave the CSTO.

I don’t know about getting out, but the fact that she won’t gain anything as a result is certain. Kazakhstan, a member of the CSTO, obstructed the admission of Armenia to the EAEU on the grounds that Yerevan still has unresolved territorial conflicts with Azerbaijan. After that, diplomatic tensions constantly took place between Yerevan and Astana. To the extent that Armenian politicians called for the exclusion of Kazakhstan and Belarus from the CSTO, which, being in the same military organization with Armenia, cooperate more with Azerbaijan and support this country.
Kakhastan stands for the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and from the very beginning of the Karabakh conflict unconditionally supported Azerbaijan

[1976AG]

Quote: Egor53

If Armenia recognizes Nagorno-Karabakh, then it will automatically withdraw from the CSTO.

Who told you that ?? Had a dream?

[Gunther]

Quote: Ambassador to the Vatican

.... stated that Yerevan will agree to the recognition of Nagorno-Karabakh as an independent republic if it understands that Azerbaijan is not going to stop the military operation in the region.

Soros' desire to drag Russia into this fornication coincide with the desires of the undersultan, the unity and struggle of opposites of ts.

[Pereira]

What is Armenian statehood? Pashinyan, or what?

[Egor53]

Armenian statehood is not just Pashinyan (although this monkey is enough). It is also Soros and 2000 American diplomats in Yerevan. For comparison, there are about 440 American diplomats in Russia.
And the hell with such a country do we need to be in the CSTO?

[DAQ]

The position of the Armenians is clear. They have lived here for thousands of years and are not going to leave. Although, purely legally, this is Azerbaijan. Well, it turned out that international law is not on the side of the Armenians. Although no one talks about any international sanctions against Armenia (purely legally, this is an occupation). The situation is not straightforward. And everyone understands this. Nobody (turkey and pakistan) can tell the Armenians to leave this land either. Everyone understands that if Karabakh is handed over to Azerbaijan, the Armenians will be evicted at best. Here's a stalemate.

[Flavius]

This is not Azerbaijan. How can this legally be? What are you speaking about?! There is no need to repeat Aliyev's propaganda. I say to Azeri propagandists, show at least one UNP resolution where it says Karabakh is Azeri. You know what answers? "We wanted to put on a resolution!" And they refer to the resolutions that were of 1993, and we are talking about the buffer zone, and there both sides had to fulfill the requirements - but both violated, because the Azeri fired at the civilian population of the near-by areas and this is documented. And it did not cease fire, as it is now, although we signed a ceasefire agreement.

Legally, this is Russia, because the legal successor of the USSR pays its debts. And the fact that the Armenians did not declare their rights to other plots except for Karabakh does not make them Azerbaijani, and even more so legally! There people everywhere lived 50% to 50% and the land there is both Azerbaijani and Armenian! With the exception of Karabakh, 76% were Armenians, even during the rule of the Aliyev clan, which pursued a deliberate policy of ousting Armenians. It can be traced across Nakhchivan (the birthplace of the Aliyevs) and other regions, when, for example, in the USSR, 2 Azeri regions were combined with 1 Armenian region in order to replace the leadership with a pro-Turkish (Azeri) one, although the regions did not have common borders. And then to displace discriminating, if you want to live normally, go to other republics or Armenia.

If you wish, you can find the KGB archives and there are tricks of the Aliyev clan there. They wanted to put him (Heydar) in the USSR, and then Sungayit and Baku suddenly appeared - with pogroms and brutal reprisals on interethnic grounds.

There is also a topic: Armenia was in an economic blockade and even all the Armenians left there. (The Georgians will not be allowed to lie, they participate in the blockade of Armenia whenever possible). But the Karabakh people stayed there. And they live! And don't touch them!

[uranium]

[quote] the Armenians have not declared their rights to other plots except for Karabakh, this does not make them Azerbaijani, and even more so legally! / quote]
Well, here you can draw an analogy with Krasnodar and Sochi, if the Armenians have not declared their rights, this does not mean that it belongs to the Russian Federation

[Bakinec]

Open the official UN website. There is a window where the cards are written. Enter the word Azerbaijan there. A map of Azerbaijan will open. And then you will understand (or may not understand) that the statement you wrote that legally Karabakh does not belong to Azerbaijan is simply nonsense.

[Flavius]

:))) Level! Those. Did you decide to start a war because of the map on the ONN website? Is this "legal" evidence? Have you tried to look at the Google map with Aliyev? There the NKR is marked. I won't even look, although you may not be lying "about the map on the site." I know that Aliyev spent $ 3 billion on lobbying.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Nasdaq

Everyone understands that if you transfer Karabakh to Azerbaijan, ...

It is not so much about the NKR as about the seven occupied regions of Azerbaijan.

[Homeland]

Armenians are newcomers to the Transcaucasus. And they were resettled here after the Russian-Persian wars of the early 19th century. We need them back where they came from. They know it very well themselves.

[Buka001]

And this must be done very urgently. Return them to Divan and Syria. Until they have done irreparable troubles in the south of Russia !!!

[Rubina]

In total, in order for 120 thousand Armenians of Karabakh to live well, about 1 million Azerbaijanis and about 350 thousand Armenians from Azerbaijan became refugees. 7 districts around Karabakh were turned into ruins for 120 thousand Armenians to live well? Is it fair? They took territories by military means and are losing by military means. And it's time to admit it. And we don't need Armenia itself. There will be no unblocking of communications and economic ties either with Azerbaijan or with Turkey and, I suspect, after the claims to Javakhetia with Georgia, will not happen either. Let them live behind a concrete wall as they want.

And yes, there is no need to write nonsense about millennia. Then return Crimea not even to the Turks, but to the Greeks.

[iouris]

A comparative analysis of Aliyev and Pashinyan's appeals to "the city and the world" allows us to conclude that Pashinyan psychologically lost the war. Considering the level of losses, a reasonable way out of the war is an early cessation of hostilities on Baku's terms. At the same time, the Armenian population either remains under the guarantees of Aliyev and the "guarantors" with the preservation of autonomy, or leaves the territory with the provision, first of all, from Baku and Yerevan, as the parties responsible for the conflict, reasonable payments to establish at the chosen places of residence, established by the guarantors. A transitional period should be established and a temporary administration appointed to ensure the safety of the civilian population and resolve all social issues. Turkey does not interfere in this process under any circumstances.

[Observer2014]

Someone can clearly explain why for so many years Armenia did not give Azerbaijan its territory, for which they absolutely do not care. Everyone saw footage from these lands. I’m not even talking about Nagorno-Karabakh, but about the regions of Azerbaijan. Strategic heights there. Nu-nu. Well, bury your sons further. You seem to like it very much. Really, it was impossible to come to an agreement in so many years. Ordinary boys of them there are now dying in thousands. But these lands will still need to be given away. Or is there something else? And this war is needed for the Natsiks in Armenia to calm down, because as soon as one of their rulers stuttered about agreements with Azerbaijan, the parliament will be shot at once, then threats.
There was an opportunity to come to an agreement. And everyone would be happy. No. Well, since no, have fun. If you can call it that.

[DAQ]

Well, in short, Armenians have lived on these lands since the end of centuries, not only Armenians, but there were most of them. By the end of the 80s, almost 90% of Armenians lived in Karabakh. It just so happened that Karabakh (purely legally) became a part of Azerbaijan. An interethnic conflict broke out, the Armenians left Baku and other cities of Azerbaijan, but did not want to leave Karabakh (in many respects, the conflict was justified by the fact that in the late 80s the inhabitants of Karabakh wanted to become part of Armenia.
The situation is stalemate. Purely legally, by law, this land is Azerbaijani. But the Armenians do not want to leave these lands. Everyone understands that if control over these lands is transferred to Baku, then all Armenians will be squeezed out of Karabakh one way or another. This is if it follows a soft scenario. This is the position of the Armenians.
Azerbaijan believes that since these lands were included in the AzSSR, then this is "the primordially Azerbaijani land" this is Aliyev's quote.

The situation is stalemate. Please answer me, is it really fair that since according to the law this is the territory of Azkrbaydjan, then the Armenians should leave these lands ?????
And yes, legally it is an occupation, but no one is imposing sanctions against Armenia (Pakistan, Turkey and Azerbaijan). Everyone understands that the situation is ambiguous.

[Observer2014]

I spoke about the lands around Nagorno-Karabakh, which, under the Minsk agreements, were assigned to Azerbaijan anyway. Look where the Azerbaijani army is advancing! It is on the lands where everything Azerbaijani would be. This is a political circus, not a war. In the next week we will see whether it is so or not. And besides, I repeat, in my opinion, this is to calm down the pride of the Armenian Natsiks. I’ll repeat, remind me of this comment after the end of this crisis. And we will discuss the result together.

[DAQ]

Ahh .. this is the so-called safety belt. The Armenians use it as a buffer zone, so to speak, to defend Karabakh itself. I think if Azerbaijan agreed to transfer Karabakh itself to Armenia, then at least 5 out of 7 regions they would have received without a single shot. There would be questions about the Lachin corridor.
If it were not for this safety belt, then Stepanakert and other cities would have been hit not only from long-range art, but also from mortars.
I think sooner or later they will agree on this: Azerbaijan will pass the security belt, and Armenia itself will have Karabakh. But Azerbaijan clearly does not like this option.

[Observer2014]

Quote: Nasdaq

Ahh .. this is the so-called safety belt. The Armenians use it as a buffer zone, so to speak, to defend Karabakh itself. I think if Azerbaijan agreed to transfer Karabakh itself to Armenia, then at least 5 out of 7 regions they would have received without a single shot. There would be questions about the Lachin corridor.
If it were not for this safety belt, then Stepanakert and other cities would have been hit not only from long-range art, but also from mortars.
I think sooner or later they will agree on this: Azerbaijan will pass the security belt, and Armenia itself will have Karabakh. But Azerbaijan clearly does not like this option.

Well, let's take a look. I do not like it like this In our global world. We are constrained by our possibilities in judgments. I am not only constrained in infe and in the expression of my thoughts. To print it is not to speak live. You see, a lot of people do not even understand what lands the war is going on. But the history (30 years. Not a century) of this conflict. Azerbaijan needs access to Nakhichevan. And it will fight for it. This is something that is possible. It is possible that Nagorno-Karabakh will be preserved. It is recognized that it will keep it for Armenia. Well, then it will be a different story. And it will concern Russian-Armenian relations

[Flavius]

What Law? Under the law of violence? The fact that murders and robbery did not succeed in driving out the Armenian population in other regions and appropriating their lands and property?

Don't suck the laws out of your finger. If you were crazy about the drunkard Yeltsin, this does not mean that it is "legal."

[DAQ]

This is not under Yeltsin, it is under Lenin and Stalin (Stalin was then the people's commissar, that is, the minister for nationalities) Karabakh was included in the AzSSR. So to say, friendship with the ataturk was established.
You're right!!! According to the law of violence. As a result of all wars, the victorious powers establish peace on their own terms, move the border as they want, then this is enshrined in the UN charter on territorial integrity. And small nations suffer. Borders are so namiksayut that figs rake.
Is it fair that international laws are arranged like this? I think not, and a resolution on the self-determination of peoples was added to the UN Charter. In addition, the powers have never seriously demanded from Armenia the transfer of Karabakh. Therefore, they (the powers) say that it is necessary to negotiate, and not blindly follow the UN Charter.
You understand, the LAW and JUSTICE are different things. This is what normal negotiations are for. Need to find a compromise

[Flavius]

I just constantly come across the words "according to the law" "legally", apparently, some Elman Pashayev comes up with a law in the comments which is beneficial to him. After all, any sane person understands that there was no Law and everyone grabbed as much as they wanted, and it was under Yeltsin, who wanted to put on everyone and everything (both Armenians and Azerbaijanis, and Crimea), was eager for power. Even if only Moscow remained from Russia, but he was the main one there.

[Odysseus]

Quote: Nasdaq

The situation is stalemate. Please answer me, is it really fair that since according to the law this is the territory of Azkrbaydjan, then the Armenians should leave these lands ?????

Your logic is a little strange. Imagine - China occupies 20% of the territory of Russia (which it inherits from the RSFSR in the same way as Azerbaijan inherits the territory of the AzSSR), and then when Russia begins a liberation operation, the Chinese say, is it fair that, according to the law, this is Russia. lands where have they been since BC?
And then no one drives the Armenians out of there: they have been told a hundred times, make a compromise - give at least 7 regions that have nothing to do with Karabakh at all.
They all rested on the right to force and national "superiority". So who is the doctor to them now ...

[DAQ]

Azerbaijan is not satisfied with 7 regions, they also need Karabakh. Aliyev has stated this repeatedly.
On account of the fact that no one is driving, well, you probably do not know the intensity of passions and mutual hatred. There is not just a humane attitude towards prisoners of war, there civilians are allowed to flow. How can they live together? There is no trust at all. We must disagree, but on mutually acceptable terms.

[Odysseus]

Quote: Nasdaq

Azerbaijan is not satisfied with 7 regions, they also need Karabakh. Aliyev has stated this repeatedly.

By law and international law, this is their land. So he could not say anything else.
The point is that if we want to reach a compromise, then Armenia had to transfer 5 regions, agree on joint control over the Lachin corridor and the postponed status of Karabakh. But they soared their brains for 25 years without fulfilling the agreement, and after the arrival of Pashinyan, they completely torpedoed the agreements. This is an insane policy given the demographic and economic potential difference and Turkey's support.

Quote: Nasdaq

On account of the fact that no one is driving, well, you probably don’t know the intensity of passions and mutual hatred.

I know. Been there many times. And sincerely sympathizing with his Armenian and Karabakh friends, he always told them - give up your crazy nationalist ideas, compromise until you lose everything. Now it is too late, the only hope is to make it through to winter and outside interference.

[Fon elia]

Karabakh has not become a part of Azerbaijan, but has always been. Before the Russian Empire and the USSR, it was the Karabakh Khanate. Where the Turks ruled for several centuries. The Armenians began to migrate en masse after the Turkmenchay agreement to Karabakh. Azerbaijan gave them shelter and land. And they betrayed.

[Observer2014]

Quote: Fon Elia

Karabakh has not become a part of Azerbaijan, but has always been. Before the Russian Empire and the USSR, it was the Karabakh Khanate. Where the Turks ruled for several centuries. The Armenians began to migrate en masse after the Turkmenchay agreement to Karabakh. Azerbaijan gave them shelter and land. And they betrayed.

In the Paleozoic, you will not believe the armadinosaurus specially popped the Azerdino into the burrow and now it's time to do something about it. In the 21st century. People fifty-nine years ago flew into space if anything. It's time to stop wildness.

[Lyuba1965_01]

You are completely wrong. In fact, historically, NK was a part of Persia, and a part of Azerbaijan, and a part of Caucasian Albania, and a part of Atropatena. So it’s impossible to say that this is the original Armenian land. As for the expulsion of Armenians from Baku. The Armenians were the first to start expelling Azerbaijanis from Armenia. And the expulsion of Armenians from Baku was just a response to this. Moreover, the exiled Azerbaijanis were resettled in Sumgait and Baku, so the anger of the refugees who smashed the Armenians is quite understandable. There is also data from the investigation of Sumgait by the Prosecutor General of the USSR, in which it was said and proved that an Armenian was in charge of the Armenian pogroms in Sumgait. Why these pogroms were needed in Armenia is understandable, in order to show the world that Azerbaijanis are so bloodthirsty and nationalists, to win public opinion to their side. And they did it. Now she almost does not remember that in the beginning there was expulsion, murders, arson of the houses of Azerbaijanis in Armenia, and everyone remembers and knows only about Sumgait and Baku. Also, there have always been much more Armenians in Azerbaijan than Azerbaijanis in Armenia, and therefore such an apparent mass expulsion of Armenians is.

[Flavius]

Yes, I heard the version that Aliyev is an Armenian!)) But this is a lie) And the number of refugees, commentators like you, constantly increase I met 500 thousand, at the beginning of the war, then 650 thousand, and now Lemon :) It turns out that in the villages there should have been 100-story skyscrapers around Karabakh, if you listen.

This cannot be taken away from the Turks. Erdogan is also blackmailing everyone with refugees. And collects tribute from Europe.

[iouris]

Quote: Nasdaq

Everyone understands that the situation is ambiguous.

The situation is clear: a peace treaty, Armenian autonomy within Azerbaijan, everyone is learning to live in peace and friendship, a good road and regular communication between the autonomy and Yerevan, a simplified visa regime. And most importantly: no Turkey.

[DAQ]

[media = https: //m.youtube.com/watch? v = smmb_TEZBj0]
In the video, a commentary by General Lebed
"Let's live together." Armenians will not agree to live under the rule of Azerbaijan.
Azerbaijan also does not need the Karabakh Armenians.

It is not that simple.
A real compromise is needed.
And yet, a quote from Abraham Lincoln: nothing is finally urigulated unless it is urigulated fair.
If politicians wanted a lasting peace, and were not blinded by ambition, and tried to reach a just solution, the situation would be different.

[Observer2014]

Quote: Nasdaq

[media = https: //m.youtube.com/watch? v = smmb_TEZBj0]
In the video, a commentary by General Lebed
"Let's live together." Armenians will not agree to live under the rule of Azerbaijan.
Azerbaijan also does not need the Karabakh Armenians.

It is not that simple.
A real compromise is needed.
And yet, a quote from Abraham Lincoln: nothing is finally urigulated unless it is urigulated fair.
If politicians wanted a lasting peace, and were not blinded by ambition, and tried to reach a just solution, the situation would be different.

Yes!

[Lyuba1965_01]

Until 1988, no one touched the Armenians either in Karabakh or in Azerbaijan itself. The Armenians of Karabakh calmly traveled to Armenia on business and to visit, from Armenia everyone came to Karabakh just as calmly. So who's to blame for all this happening? Along with the Az language, they taught Armenian in schools there, and no one forbade them to speak their own language, go to their churches, and receive relatives and friends from Armenia. The Romanians used the same rights there as the Azerbaijanis. ... So what's the deal? If Armenia had not raised this storm, everything would have been as before. Both Azerbaijanis and Armenians would live there peacefully. It was not Azerbaijan that began to expel the Armenians from there, but the Armenians began to expel the Azerbaijanis from their own land.

[Flavius]

Listen, Lyuba, stop lying! After Stalin's death, they were still touched! Although under Stalin, Aziz Aliyev, Ilham's grandfather, fell into disgrace for hiding his Musovat relatives. And he flew from all positions to an ordinary doctor in the village (although he did not know how to treat it, most likely). There, the Azeri would at least take the competent as their "propagandists". Let's open the information in Google or Yandex - October 9, 1959. The day when two teams, representing the cities of the then "fraternal" republics of the USSR - "Shirak" (Leninakan) and "Tekstilshchik" (Kirovabad), met.

By the way, after that Aliyev cleaned out all the Armenian militiamen. They were preparing for the massacre long ago, apparently. The provocation is clearly his doing.

You probably don't know, judging by the fact that you are sculpting Aliyev's propaganda blanks here, that Kirovobad is the current Gnyanzha, she is Elizavetpol and Gandzak.

[Lyuba1965_01]

There were no Armenians among the police ??? Nu-nu ... don't tell me that, she knew the Armenian policemen. And they were in good positions in this department. I haven’t heard about this match, but now I’ve found about it. Moreover, I found only the story of an Armenian. And this he says he calls Azerbaijanis beasts, and about Armenians as noble knights without fear and reproach. The point is that there is a small nuance. How many years before 90 and after I had to meet with Armenians (not only Azerbadzhan) living not in Armenia, they all say the same thing about Armenians in Armenia: nationalists, arrogant, angry, especially to other nations living in Armenia. An Armenian family left Baku at that time. So they left not for Armenia, where they had relatives, but for Russia. A classmate of my friend from Bobruisk, Belarus, an Armenian, after the collapse of the USSR decided to return with his family to their historical homeland, i.e. to Armenia, where he had relatives ... He fled from there almost a year later, although his wife is Armenian. Well, try to the Armenians living in Russia to offer a well-paid job in Armenia, good housing there and pay for the move, and see what they will answer you. Also, note that NO ONE Armenian from any city of the former USSR strives to move to Armenia for permanent residence, even if he has the opportunity to buy a house there, etc. And this is not because the economic situation in Armenia is bad, but because the people there are completely different. There are Armenians who have business in Armenia. At the same time, they either do not live there, occasionally arriving there on business, or at the slightest opportunity leave anywhere for a while, just to avoid being in Armenia just like that. I know several people, Armenians, who, during the events in Baku, went anywhere, but not to Armenia. Don’t believe me, your business. But this is what I encountered myself.

[Flavius]

In the 70s, the party organs tried to check why your Heydar Aliyev did not serve in the army, and why he was not on the fronts of the Great Patriotic War, although the Armenians were called up and died while he was hiding ... And they did not return from the front, including those areas that were appropriated and occupied by Azerbaijan after the collapse of the USSR! And now his son is killing their descendants along with Turkey and the Turks!

And he also underestimated his year of birth from 1922 to 1923 - and even they could not find the documents! (It's about a fake tuberculosis certificate). They are gone! So, what about the story of some "Lyuba", which wholly gives out literally "blanks" Aliyev's. That she personally did not see or meet anyone ... I will not even discuss it.

Just don't say that at the age of 16 or 17 he was sent to Turkey and recruited someone there or he was recruited. Because he entered the NKVD only in 1944.

[Lyuba1965_01]

I can't say anything about Aliyev and his service in the army, but I just don't know, I never raised such a question. Well, we are not talking about Aliyev, but about Armenians and Azerbaijanis and their relationship. To you, an ardent Armenian defender who is so indignant with this football mast, I would advise you to inquire about the deportation of almost 100 Azerbaijanis from Armenia literally 000-5 years before this match. Maybe then you will understand that you should not blame the Azerbaijanis for everything and it is worth looking at how the Armenians behaved towards the Azerbaijanis.

[Flavius]

The only deportation was carried out by Aziz Aliyev against one of the Dagestani peoples. Then they also took over the pastures of Dagestan in favor of the AzSSR.

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Observer2014

Someone can clearly explain why for so many years Armenia did not give Azerbaijan its territory, for which they absolutely do not care. Everyone saw footage from these lands. I’m not even talking about Nagorno-Karabakh, but about the regions of Azerbaijan. Strategic heights there. Nu-nu. Well, bury your sons further. You seem to like it very much. Really, it was impossible to come to an agreement in so many years. Ordinary boys of them there are now dying in thousands. But these lands will still need to be given away. Or is there something else? And this war is needed for the Natsiks in Armenia to calm down, because as soon as one of their rulers stuttered about agreements with Azerbaijan, the parliament will be shot at once, then threats.
There was an opportunity to come to an agreement. And everyone would be happy. No. Well, since no, have fun. If you can call it that.

And they brought their population there. In particular, refugees from Syria were placed there, hiding behind them. Now if they leave, where are these people to live? The Azerbaijanis whom they kicked out after returning will demand their houses back. And nobody invested in infrastructure and new construction on the principle of "it will resolve itself" ... So now they essentially have no options. Surrender - and 200-300 thousand refugees are on their heads. For 2 million Armenia, this is a disaster. If they don't surrender they will lose because while the enemies were preparing the army, the Armenians were catching "Russian spies". So they shout at every corner so that we climb in and save them ... But why no one explains it to us, everyone refers to the terrible Turkish threat, which will now sweep away the last frontier in the form of Karabakh, and then we will bite with the weak in passing ...

[Vladimir61]

In fact, Armenia, represented by Pashinyan, put Karabakh under attack! Aliyev only took advantage of the political and legal moment.
Pashinyan's bet on the West was not justified, they did not think about it there. It was deliberately used, directing events in the mainstream of the prospects of confrontation between Russia, both with Azerbaijan and Turkey, and with Armenia itself in terms of the CSTO's non-viability.

[Rubina]

Not only did they not give it back, the Armenian press and even top officials constantly voiced claims against Ganja, Nakhichevan, and even Baku. The Armenians themselves put the question bluntly, either they or we.

[Flavius]

In fact, Kars is also (the contract is ending). But this does not serve to justify Aliyev. Fact: the aggression of Turkey and Azerbaijan, with the support of countries such as Israel and Georgia, and now also Ukraine.

If Aliyev had no bad intentions, he would have turned to Russia from the very beginning for "help" in returning so "necessary" territories, which therefore exist to serve as a buffer against his aggression. There you can shoot silly videos showing off "they say there are still a lot of people walking in front of the camera in one corridor" - these are refugees. Azerbaijanis hold everyone for fools, or they themselves, for some reason, do not understand it so falsely. Refugees have long found a place to live, no matter how they tried to keep them hostage and make them one of the "tools". But a sneaky example of such manipulation suggests that it is impossible to comply with any agreements with such people.

In my opinion, Pashinyan's owners wanted to surrender Karabakh to Aliyev in this way in order to support his power. Because Ter-Petrosyan's attempts to surrender Karabakh legally - led to a change of power, but here they were like "taken away" ... Pashinyan himself may be blindly used, and who is he actually? Just another Sarkozy or Bush ...

[Buka001]

Yes, it is precisely because of the Natsiks that they are leading their guys to slaughter !! And you also need to account for millions of dollars sent by diasporas from all over the world. Just walking away is like a sentence. And so they say they could not hold the forces were unequal, etc.

[Selevc]

Let us remind that Armenian President Armen Sarkisian stated that Yerevan will agree to the recognition of Nagorno-Karabakh as an independent republic if it understands that Azerbaijan is not going to stop the military operation in the region.

That is, the Armenians say that they are ready to put a bullet in their temples themselves if Azerbaijan continues to advance ??? Who inspired the Armenians that their recognition of Nagorno-Karabakh would bring them any benefit ???

I know who inspired this to them - they were inspired by those who came to power with the color revolution, namely Pashinyan and K !!! In recent years, while Baku has been quietly arming itself, Yerevan has played games of democracy. The Americans and their puppets came and said: "- Yes, you are an ancient people of Armenians !!!, - You are great, you are powerful, - You do not have enough democracy, - You need to decide on the world community, - Parliamentary republic or presidential? Etc. . "
In general, all this cheating on a global scale - dregs and info-fog that covered Azerbaijan's preparations for war. !!! And by the way, they covered it very badly, so that only the Armenian elites who raised their noses might not notice !!!

Well, then what happened - a cold shower of reality !!! It suddenly turned out that Armenia as a state is itself - surrounded by obvious and hidden enemies and outside help is difficult ... And the games of democracy and freedom turned out to be the pampering of a person standing on the edge of an abyss !!! These are the pies ...

[Kot_Kuzya]

Soros Pashinyan accurately and consistently fulfills the instructions of his American curators to draw Russia into this conflict, as Britain once dragged Russia into WWI for the sake of the Serb brothers. Well, I do not! You won't wait! Let the Armenians and Azerbaijanis figure it out on their own. This is not our war. All by yourself. You are so independent and sovereign!

[Oreshek]

Quote: Kot_Kuzya

Soros Pashinyan accurately and consistently fulfills the instructions of his American curators to draw Russia into this conflict, as Britain once dragged Russia into WWI for the sake of the Serb brothers. Well, I do not! You won't wait! Let the Armenians and Azerbaijanis figure it out on their own. This is not our war. All by yourself. You are so independent and sovereign!

A difficult situation and one can feel from where the ears stick out in this conflict ...
Russia cannot enter into a conflict while Pashinyan is in power, it is impossible .. It will be fraught and may grow ... I hope our special services are aware of everything and keep them under control ..

[Odysseus]

Returning to the military aspect of events.
Azerbaijan, as expected, is leading a successful offensive in the south.
Tomorrow or the day after tomorrow they will come to Akari. Further, a logical turn to the north. Here will be the decisive battle of the war. If they can climb the Akari valley to the mountains and establish fire control over the Lachin corridor, ideally overtake it, then in fact the war will be over. It will not be possible to supply Karabakh along the northern road.
On the other hand, they can attack from Gadrut directly to Shushi, stretching the defense in different directions.

[Krasnodar]

The problem is that the Armenians are waiting for the war in the mountains

[Vadim237]

The mountains will not help them in this modern war. They will be surrounded there and artillery with shock drones will be gouged consistently and slowly.

[Krasnodar]

To do this, you need to get there f))
And not just climb, but surround
And in order to destroy - to see (to begin with).
Balagan .. the terrain is difficult, and to take heights you need to stomp your feet, under the cover of drones, which, perhaps, will be able to discern something somewhere, then attack and aim. To minimize losses, it is necessary to use specially trained parts - in short, all this is not easy.

[Vadim237]

There is no simply mountainous areas and the entire border with Armenia to occupy - no need to stomp into the mountains, just send drones and artillery to correct them, process the squares every day from the partisans and the remnants of the army in such conditions will not be fed with weapons or food in general or anything and six months if they do not hold out, they will surrender themselves. "Something they can distinguish somewhere" Judging by the videos from these drones, the cameras they have are excellent and IR 3+ generations have something to do with and they will not have problems with detection and recognition in mountainous terrain neither day nor night. And over time, Turkey will start to supply Azerbaijan with an order of magnitude cool drones with what it has now, both in terms of capabilities and weapons.

[Krasnodar]

Not quite so, and not quite Turkey, but I think it will end much earlier
Aliyev and Pashinyan will meet in Moscow and agree.

[Seal]

But here it should be recalled that Armenia, firstly, is a member of the CSTO and an attack on it will be considered an attack on the entire CSTO

Will be considered, considered, considered ... will be considered for a very long time at the Session of the Collective Security Council. Then the question will be put to a vote. And it is not at all a fact that, for example, Kazakhstan or Tajikistan will agree with the position of the Armenian side, which will prove that it (Armenia) was subjected to aggression from Azerbaijan. After all, the troops of Armenia itself have been on the territory of Azerbaijan for over 25 years. Although Armenia calls them the "Army of Artsakh". But he directs his conscripts to serve in it. Including (according to Pashinyan) his son served on the territory of "Artsakh". And this son allegedly put on his uniform again and went there to fight. There is a great likelihood that Armenia will be recognized as the aggressor. Moreover, an old aggressor, with almost 30 years of experience.
And aggression against the aggressor is nonsense.

[Old26]

Quote: Flavius

:))) Level! Those. Did you decide to start a war because of the map on the ONN website? Is this "legal" evidence? Have you tried to look at the Google map with Aliyev? There the NKR is marked. I won't even look, although you may not be lying "about the map on the site." I know that Aliyev spent $ 3 billion on lobbying.

Yes, knowledge just goes over the edge. But before my eyes is the Atlas of the USSR, where it is written in black and white: Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region of Azerbaijan.
As for the UN, the resolutions of the UN Security Council write in black and white about the seizure of regions of the Republic of Azerbaijan. In particular, resolution S/RES/853 (1993) of July 29, 1993 mentions the capture of the Aghdam region of the Republic of Azerbaijan... And resolutions S/RES/822 (1993), S/RES/874 (1993) and S/ RES/884 (1993) too... And this is a statement facts capture.

Quote: Nasdaq

Azerbaijan is not satisfied with 7 regions, they also need Karabakh. Aliyev has stated this repeatedly.

Of course he did. After all, all the statements about giving up the 7 occupied regions of Azerbaijan, and postponing the question of the status of Karabakh for later, did not affect Armenia. Now Aliyev is already demanding a "maximum", although earlier he also agreed to a postponed version of the status of the NKR upon the return of the seized lands. Now he has the strength, there is a fairly well-equipped army and he will by all means solve the "maximum task"

[Seal]

Quote: Flavius

This is not Azerbaijan. How can this legally be? What are you speaking about?! There is no need to repeat Aliyev's propaganda. I say to Azerbaijani propagandists, show at least one UNP resolution where it says Karabakh is Azerbaijani. What is the answer you know? ...

Firstly, not the UN, but the UN.
And secondly, is it not destiny to think for yourself?
The Republic of Armenia was admitted to the United Nations on March 2, 1992.
The Republic of Azerbaijan was admitted to the United Nations on March 2, 1992.
Upon admission to the UN, each state provides its own dossier, which, among other things, contains maps of the entering state, physical, political, maps of water resources, and so on.
What do you think, what maps of its territories did Armenia present and Azerbaijan presented that they were admitted to the UN even without a vote? However, not only they, also without a vote, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan were admitted to the UN membership on the same day.
These are the borders in which these countries were admitted to the UN and are internationally recognized borders.

And then came the resolutions of the UN Security Council.
Resolution No. 822.
Security Council

Recalling the statements made by the President of the Security Council on 29 January 1 and 6 April 1993, XNUMX on the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict,
Taking note of the report of the Secretary-General of 14 April 1993,
Expressing serious concern about the deterioration of relations between the Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Azerbaijan,
Noting with concern the escalation of armed hostilities, and in particular the recent invasion of local Armenian forces in the Kelbajar region of Azerbaijan,
Concerned that this situation threatens peace and security in the region,
Expressing grave concern over the displacement of large numbers of civilians and the humanitarian emergency in the region, in particular in the Kelbajar region,
Reaffirming respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all States in the region,
Reaffirming also the inviolability of international borders and the inadmissibility of the use of force to acquire territory,

[Seal]

Resolution No. 853.
Security Council

Reaffirming its resolution 822 (1993) of April 30, 1993,
Having considered the report of the Chairman of the Minsk Group of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe of July 27, 1993, 1
Expressing grave concern at the deterioration of relations between the Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Azerbaijan and the tension between them,
Welcoming the adoption by stakeholders of an urgent action plan to implement its resolution 822 (1993),
Noting with concern the escalation of hostilities and, in particular, the capture of the Agdam region in Azerbaijan,
Concerned that this situation continues to threaten peace and security in the region,
Reiterating its serious concern about the displacement of a large number of civilians in Azerbaijan and the humanitarian emergency in the region,
Reaffirming the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and all other states in the region,
Reaffirming also the inviolability of international borders and the inadmissibility of the use of force to acquire territory,
1. Condemns the seizure of the Agdam region and all other recently occupied regions of the Republic of Azerbaijan;

Resolution No. 874.

Security Council

Reaffirming its resolutions 822 (1993) of 30 April 1993 and 853 (1993) of 29 July 1993, and recalling the statement read out by the President of the Security Council on behalf of the Council on 18 August 1993, 1
Having considered the letter of the Chairman of the Minsk Conference of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe on Nagorno-Karabakh dated October 1, 1993 addressed to the Chairman of the Security Council, 2
Expressing its serious concern that the continuation of the conflict in and around the Nagorno-Karabakh region of the Republic of Azerbaijan and the continued tension in relations between the Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Azerbaijan would pose a threat to peace and security in the region,
Noting the high-level meetings held in Moscow on October 8, 1993, and expressing the hope that they will contribute to the improvement of the situation and the peaceful settlement of the conflict,
reaffirming the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and all other states in the region,

[Seal]

Resolution No. 884.
Security Council

Reaffirming their resolutions 822 (1993) of 30 April 1993, 853 (1993) of 29 July 1993 and 874 (1993) of 14 October 1993,
Reaffirming their full support for the peace process carried out within the framework of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe and the tireless efforts of the Minsk Group of the Conference,
Taking note of the letter dated 9 November 1993 from the Chairman-in-Office of the Minsk Conference of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe on Nagorno-Karabakh addressed to the President of the Security Council and addenda thereto1,
Expressing serious concern that the continuation of the conflict in and around the Nagorno-Karabakh region of the Republic of Azerbaijan and the continued tension in relations between the Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Azerbaijan would pose a threat to peace and security in the region,
Noting with concern the escalation of hostilities as a result of ceasefire violations and the excessive use of force in response to these violations, in particular the occupation of the Zangelan region and the city of Horadiz in Azerbaijan,
reaffirming the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and all other states in the region,
Reaffirming also the inviolability of international borders and the inadmissibility of the use of force to acquire territory,

What do you not understand?

[Corporal Valera]

Quote: Beringovsky

Well, if you go far, then the Armenians in these places from the 12th century BC. live.

Well, if you go far, then the graves of the dids are thrown all over Mother Earth.

[zollstab]

My vision of the situation with Karabakh and further with Armenia. The army of Azerbaijan and its ally is many times better prepared, more motivated and has a great technical superiority. Further, the basis of any society is the so-called. a religious matrix, because according to the notions of the Turks, the Armenians are giaur. Let me explain: giaur
(Tur. gâvur, Pers. gebr, from Arab. kafir - unbeliever) - among those professing Islam, the contemptuous nickname of all non-Muslims (gl. arr. in the middle centuries). The Azerbaijani army with its older brother will crush everything that stands in their way! Following this logical chain, the fate of the Armenians with their wagging backside Pashinyan is a foregone conclusion, and Turkey will be the first and main player in the Caucasus.

[iouris]

Clear

Quote: zollstab

Army of Azerbaijan and ally

... prepares to attack Moscow.

[zollstab]

Russian-Turkish wars are a fact in history!

[Seal]

Yeah. Namely, that the Russian-Turkish. But with the Turkish-Russian problem. Few of them. Only three. And then the first war is absolutely legal even from the point of view of modern international law. So we took and annexed to our country Astrakhan, which had never belonged to us before. The family of the Astrakhan khans ran to Constantinople and fell at the feet of the Sultan. And it should be noted that the Turkish Sultans since the time of Selim Yavuz, so to speak, also worked part-time with the Caliphs. And the Caliph is obliged to protect all the faithful. So the Sultan-Khalifa sent an army to "restore justice." But luck was not on his side. And Astrakhan is still ours.
Actually, the other two Turkish-Russian wars, initiated by the Turks themselves, were their attempts to at least slightly repel what the Turks lost in the previous Russian-Turkish war.
In fact, accusing Turkey of wars against us is like accusing the Mughal Empire of fighting against Portugal, Holland and Great Britain. Or blame China for wars against the same Great Britain. Who attacked whom? Did the Mughal Empire and China attack Great Britain or did Great Britain attack the Mughal Empire and China? In your Armenian opinion, it was the Mughal Empire and China who unreasonably unleashed wars against Great Britain.

The largest number of wars we had with the Lithuanians. It is difficult even to count them. Indeed, according to the traditional (official) version of history, it was Lithuania that seized about two-thirds of the lands of our first state, called by historians "Kievan Rus". Considering that in some periods there were almost annual campaigns of Lithuania to our lands and the capture of our cities by the Lithuanians (however, they also had unsuccessful campaigns - we sometimes snapped back hard), as well as the fact that the campaigns were often not connected with each other and were carried out by different Lithuanian princes, then the number of wars with Lithuania (in general with the Lithuanians) we had over 30.
Then there are wars with the Poles. They, including their three uprisings, which were even larger in scale than the number of our wars with Turkey) - about 20 wars. By the way. It is with Poland that we have the longest period of state of war - over 100 years.
Then there are wars with the Swedes - 18 wars.
And how many battles various Russian principalities had with the crusaders - even history does not remember about that. There were many.

The bloodiest are the Russian-German wars. In total, the Germans accounted for two world wars - over 30 million lives of our compatriots.
The Ottomans never made us such tricks as:
- Swedes after the miserable battle for us at Fraustadt, held on February 2, 1706 (Julian calendar); February 3, 1706 (Swedish calendar); February 13, 1706 (Gregorian calendar) when the victorious Swedes stabbed 4 of our prisoners with cold steel.
“In the battle of Fraustadt, an incomprehensible, truly bestial cruelty of the Swedes was revealed regarding the Russians. Indeed, in this combined army of the Saxon general Schulenburg, who suffered such a rout, there were Saxons, Poles, and even the French, who served in the Saxon army, and, finally, the Russians. After their victory (February 3, 1706), the Swedish army captured all those who were not killed and did not have time to escape. Everyone except the Russians! "Many Russians were beaten as well, and which of the soldiers were taken to full, and with those the enemy zealously acted mercilessly, according to the royal decree issued before about them, so as not to give them pardon (or mercy), and scolding people 2 and 3 "they stabbed one another with their spears and baguettes (bayonets. - E. T.). In such a barbaric way, the Swedes exterminated 4 thousand disarmed Russian prisoners after the battle." E.V. Tarle, "The Northern War and the Swedish invasion of Russia";
- Germans who attacked us without declaring war on 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX. The Ottomans, if they themselves started, first, by all the rules, declared war on us, and hostilities began somewhere in half a year after the announcement. And even later.
- Poles who literally crap Kremlin churches.
So why should we assume that the Ottomans are worse than the Swedes, Poles or Germans?

[Slipper 2]

they started verbiage, who was what chump was originally, the first were white / Russians, in the process of reproduction everything else appeared, black / yellow / narrow and other anomalous disruptions from climatic conditions

[Seal]

Quote: Flavius

Why cite documents that do not directly relate to Karabakh and NKR?

How does this "not touch" ??? Why, they directly concern. After all, they talk about the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan.
1) Resolution No. 822.

again reaffirming also the inviolability of international borders and the inadmissibility of the use of force to acquire territory,

2) Resolution No. 853.

Reaffirming the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and all other states in the region,
Reaffirming also the inviolability of international borders and the inadmissibility of the use of force to acquire territory,

3) Resolution No. 874.

Reaffirming the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and all other states in the region,

4) Resolution No. 884.

reaffirming the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and all other states in the region,
reaffirming also inviolability of international borders and the inadmissibility of the use of force to acquire territory,

International borders are those that are recognized by the UN. And the UN recognized the borders of Azerbaijan when it became a member of the UN within the borders of the Azerbaijan SSR without exception.

And what does Aliev have to do with it? The UN hosted Azerbaijan under Mutalibov. And the first two resolutions Nos. 822 (adopted on April 30, 1992) and 853 (adopted on July 29, 1993) are the period of Elchibey's presidency.