Military Review

Hush "Varshavyanka": the West spoke about new Japanese submarines

58

Submarine Big Whale ("Big whale") should become the first representative of a new class of attack diesel-electric submarines - the Taigei project. It is expected to outshine all other types of submarines in terms of its slow speed, including the famous "Black Holes" - the Russian "Varshavyanka".


First in the world


This opinion is expressed by the Military Watch (USA). The first submarine in its class was launched on October 14 this year. It is expected to enter service in 2021. The project, which has accumulated more than ten years of research, was developed by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. The result is a product that is destined to pioneer a number of entirely new technologies.

The most notable feature of the new ship is the use of the world's first lithium-ion batteries in its propulsion system. Currently, these batteries are used only on Japanese submarines of the "Soryu" type. However, they received them not during construction, but in the process of modernization, which does not make these batteries an integral part of the design.

Lithium-ion cells provide increased endurance at high speeds and allow submarines to charge faster, as well as extend battery life, compared to lead acid counterparts, the developer claims. They are also less cumbersome and require less maintenance attention.



Quieter "Varshavyanok"


However, the new technology has affected the price of the product. For example, the Soryu submarine costs about $ 488 million with old batteries and already $ 608 million with new ones. Taigei Class already costs $ 710 million. But, most likely, some of the additional costs will pay off over time due to savings in operation.

The new submarine has a displacement of about 3000 tons, making it the largest submarine built by Japan since World War II. According to Military Watch, along with this, the use of lithium-ion batteries significantly reduced the acoustic signature of diesel-electric submarines, eliminating from its propulsion system some of the moving parts usually found in air-independent versions of the power unit.

This unique technology could well make the Taigi-class submarines the quietest attack submarines in the world, taking the place of the latest improved versions of the Russian Kilo [Varshavyanok] submarines or the modernized Japanese Soryu class.

- concludes Military Watch, believing that the new standard will be widely recognized in the world by the end of the decade.

Photos used:
https://www.navyrecognition.com/
58 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. BDRM 667
    BDRM 667 19 October 2020 10: 23
    +4
    The most notable feature of the new ship is the use of the world's first lithium-ion batteries in its propulsion system. Currently, these batteries are used only on Japanese submarines of the "Soryu" type. However, they received them not during construction, but in the process of modernization, which does not make these batteries an integral part of the design.

    Lithium-ion cells provide increased endurance at high speeds and allow submarines to charge faster, as well as extend battery life, compared to lead acid counterparts, the developer claims. They are also less cumbersome and require less maintenance attention.


    At the same time, in another article (Taigei: Japan returns to diesel-electric submarines) it is said about this boat - https://topwar.ru/176165-tajgjej-japonija-vozvraschaetsja-k-dizel-jelektricheskim-podlodkam.html:
    The main advantage of diesel-electric submarines over Soryu-type submarines is less noise. Unlike Stirling engines, an electric power plant in all modes, incl. produces less noise underwater. In addition, lithium-ion batteries are used, which are superior to traditional lead-acid in all respects.

    In this case, the selected batteries are not without drawbacks. First of all, this is a high cost. In addition, batteries generate heat during charging and discharging, and can emit toxic vapors or ignite if operating modes are violated. All this imposes special requirements on the equipment of the battery wells, on which the survivability and stability of the ship and the life of its crew depend..


    As you can see, there are pluses and minuses in using such batteries, the technology of which is not yet perfect ...
    1. Bersaglieri
      Bersaglieri 19 October 2020 11: 14
      +2
      If LiIon- then there is no "stirring". And when charging, all batteries generate heat - thermodynamics-s :)
      1. dauria
        dauria 19 October 2020 14: 20
        +5
        If LiIon- then there is no "stirling"

        The history of 1942 repeated itself one to one. In November, in Paris, Doenitz held a meeting "locators drove boats under water, what to do?" The Germans already had a boat with VNEU - an experimental V-80 with a Walter turbine on peroxide, and a project of type XVII. As a result, we made an electric boat type XXI. Those reserves of displacement for peroxide were taken up by batteries, and that's it. With "lighters" after the war, everyone was wise and eventually spat. The infrastructure of the bases is too expensive, and the result in performance characteristics is inconspicuous.
        That the nine-meter insert in the case for Stirling, that the same insert for the batteries - the result is almost the same, and there is less fuss.
        And forget about the fire hazard of Li-ION. There was a problem - metallic lithium, it was eliminated long ago. Now they are no more dangerous than ordinary lead ones. Do not think, do not close, do not pierce.
        1. Bersaglieri
          Bersaglieri 19 October 2020 16: 33
          0
          Exactly. And the specific capacity is several times higher.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 20 October 2020 07: 38
            0
            And the structure does not need to be greatly altered ...
  2. Machito
    Machito 19 October 2020 10: 25
    -3
    And don't lithium-ion batteries explode? The batteries in mobile phones are well undermined. So that the number of dives of enemy Japanese boats is always one more than surfacing drinks
    1. smart fellow
      smart fellow 19 October 2020 10: 39
      +1
      Can we conclude that you don't use Mobile? All smartphones have lithium-ion batteries.
      1. Machito
        Machito 19 October 2020 11: 05
        0
        Using a mobile phone, but the batteries sometimes swell, and they will burst.
    2. Roman070280
      Roman070280 19 October 2020 10: 47
      -4
      Since when are they enemy to us ??
      Everyone is happy to buy Sony TVs.
      1. Eugene-Eugene
        19 October 2020 10: 57
        +1
        In these TVs from Sonya, only a couple of boards remained
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 20 October 2020 07: 39
          0
          In the Sony TVs themselves ...
      2. Machito
        Machito 19 October 2020 11: 04
        -5
        Quote: Roman070280
        Since when are they enemy to us ??
        Everyone is happy to buy Sony TVs.

        And when were the Yapas our friends? Never!!!! They have always been our enemies and plan to continue to be them. Little did we kill them in 1945. Oh, not enough.
    3. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 19 October 2020 11: 09
      +6
      There are billions of mobile phones in the world.
      There are only a few cases of fires and explosions.
      And even then, mostly with very misuse.
      If we discard those famous Samsungs, in which there was a constructive defect, then the number of fires is statistically negligible.
      1. Stasi
        Stasi 19 October 2020 11: 53
        +1
        Quote: Jacket in stock
        There are billions of mobile phones in the world.
        There are only a few cases of fires and explosions.
        And even then, mostly with very misuse.

        The video outlines the reasons for the fire hazard of such batteries and the steps that battery manufacturers are taking to eliminate them.

        1. KCA
          KCA 19 October 2020 12: 31
          -1
          Videvo did not look, the third contact is fucking not needed for an acc in the phone, it happened like this, it was zapadlo to buy charging for a specific phone, temporary, stupidly soldered +/- acc to charging and charged, why is the 3rd contact?
          1. BDRM 667
            BDRM 667 19 October 2020 18: 45
            +4
            Quote: KCA
            Videvo did not look, the 3rd contact is fucking not needed for the account in the phone

            But I watched the video, and realized that the 3rd contact is needed to control the temperature of the battery, which is not unimportant for the lithium-ion type of batteries, which is actually mentioned in the article about the submarine ...
            1. Motorist
              Motorist 19 October 2020 22: 19
              0
              Quote: BDRM 667
              3rd contact is needed for temperature control

              Looked for 4 minutes. Rather, not control, but short circuit protection. Wisely.
              9 minutes - and also high voltage protection.

              With an analog multimeter it would be clearer.
            2. Motorist
              Motorist 19 October 2020 22: 38
              0
              15 minutes. - yes, you are right - thermistor. But again, not control, but protection. A Pt100 (1000) or thermocouple is usually used for control.
            3. KCA
              KCA 20 October 2020 05: 13
              -1
              If a crack just happens in a lithium battery, no temperature control will save, it will burn out in pants, God forbid, remain alive, and a man or a woman, depending on what was originally
  3. Mytholog
    Mytholog 19 October 2020 10: 26
    +6
    Yes, the Pacific Fleet's Varshavyanka is getting hotter. 11 "I litter", plus this new one against 8, I remember, our old ladies.
    1. smart fellow
      smart fellow 19 October 2020 10: 42
      +7
      The Pacific Fleet has long been no rival to the Japanese. Therefore, Tu-95s fly around Japan. It is reminded that an asymmetrical answer can be given.
    2. Vladimir Mashkov
      Vladimir Mashkov 19 October 2020 12: 33
      0
      It is inherent in the West and the United States to always praise everything that is its own, and scold everything that is not its own (most often Russian and Chinese). Again, what can be quieter than silence? Only SPECIALISTS can say. And then only after careful study and comparison! So, it makes sense to wait with a FINAL assessment of the Japanese project, equipped with, though promising, but ambiguous batteries ...
    3. Dmitry V.
      Dmitry V. 19 October 2020 14: 25
      +3
      Quote: Mytholog
      Yes, the Pacific Fleet's Varshavyanka is getting hotter. 11 "I litter", plus this new one against 8, I remember, our old ladies.


      That the Japanese at the Pacific Fleet from Fujiyama do not care.
      The Chinese fleet is at their side, the main tactical opposition between the Japanese and Chinese fleets.
  4. rocket757
    rocket757 19 October 2020 10: 31
    0
    An interesting experiment.
    So it is not safe on any boats, but with the proper skill, the risks are reduced to an acceptable level.
    Stealth by any means! Exploitation will show what is most important.
  5. prior
    prior 19 October 2020 10: 41
    -2
    Man is not a rational being.
    He creates absolutely useless things, such as weapons.
    Over time, it, weapons, either becomes obsolete and therefore useless, or destroyed and also becomes useless.
    And the weapons that did not have time to become obsolete and become useless were created by man to destroy the man himself.
    The cycle of uselessness in human society.
    Well, after that, how can a person be called an intelligent creature ?!
    Well, the Americans destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and now the Japanese are creating weapons to be destroyed again. What's the point?
    1. Eugene-Eugene
      19 October 2020 10: 56
      +1
      Humanity has always been fragmented into factions - individuals, families, clans, tribes, states. If it becomes monolithic, then the need for enmity will cease to operate. But then all the voiced manifestations of humanity will cease to exist. Even if we assume that only one state will appear, then people will not stop killing each other - at least at the level of interpersonal relations.
    2. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 19 October 2020 11: 16
      +3
      Man is a product of natural selection.
      Survived are those who, relatively speaking, ate their neighbors and competitors.
      Therefore, the desire to eat a neighbor is a vital reflex that ensures survival.
      1. Dmitry V.
        Dmitry V. 19 October 2020 14: 34
        +1
        Quote: Jacket in stock
        Survived are those who, relatively speaking, ate their neighbors and competitors.


        Those who exchanged the gene pool survived - they took wives from a neighboring tribe in order to expand the gene pool and avoid deformities.
        But those who "ate" their neighbors - they degenerated, no Neanderthals remained, although in the genome of European homo-sapiens from 1,5 to 3,5% of the genome of Neanderthals was preserved.
        A comparison of the genomes of the Neanderthal and modern humans showed that approximately 2% of the genome of every modern European and Asian is of Neanderthal origin (and in African populations, Neanderthal alleles are absent)

        https://elementy.ru/nauchno-populyarnaya_biblioteka/434022/Genom_neandertaltsa_otkrytye_voprosy

        So maybe they did, but first ..
        1. Nemchinov Vl
          Nemchinov Vl 21 October 2020 14: 16
          0
          Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich
          ... degenerated no Neanderthals left
          when I hear the speeches of politicians, in Europe, the USA, and in Ukraine, at times, it seems to me that their (Neanderthals) is getting bigger ?! !!!
    3. Angelo Provolone
      Angelo Provolone 19 October 2020 11: 35
      +1
      He creates absolutely useless things, such as weapons.
      Over time, it, weapons, either becomes obsolete and therefore useless, or destroyed and also becomes useless.
      And the weapons that did not have time to become obsolete and become useless were created by man to destroy the man himself.
      The cycle of uselessness in human society.

      Liberalism
      1. prior
        prior 19 October 2020 11: 41
        +1
        What kind of liberalism it is, this is pure pacifism.
    4. Dmitry V.
      Dmitry V. 19 October 2020 14: 40
      +1
      Quote: prior
      He creates absolutely useless things, such as weapons.
      Over time, it, weapons, either becomes obsolete and therefore useless, or destroyed and also becomes useless.
      And the weapons that did not have time to become obsolete and become useless were created by man to destroy the man himself.
      The cycle of uselessness in human society.


      Weapons are not useless; they pose a potential threat of use for both defense and attack.
      For some, this creates a temptation to use it for enrichment, expanding influence, but the presence of comparable weapons from the opposite side serves as a deterrent.
      So weapons can be not only destructive, but also a stabilizing factor - a deterrent, which has become the nuclear triad.
  6. Whirlwind
    Whirlwind 19 October 2020 10: 43
    -13 qualifying.
    Where will its quietness go when the vaunted batteries run out and go under a diesel engine ..?
    Here her Varshavyanka crashes.
    1. Lex_is
      Lex_is 19 October 2020 11: 10
      +6
      Will definitely crash!
      It remains only to wait until they begin to walk under the RDP in front of Varshavyanka.
      1. Whirlwind
        Whirlwind 19 October 2020 17: 54
        0
        Snipers have no other way.
    2. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 19 October 2020 11: 13
      +8
      At Varshavyanka, if in cho, the battery will be discharged several times faster. Therefore, it is much more likely that this Jap will quietly bang Varshavyanka, which is rattling with a diesel engine.
      1. Whirlwind
        Whirlwind 19 October 2020 17: 58
        0
        In addition to the "thundering" diesel engine, there are still many different gadgets for different tihushniki ...
        And vosche - "Our proud Varyag does not surrender to the enemy!"
  7. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 19 October 2020 10: 44
    +3
    Japan is systematically strengthening its armed forces, which for some reason are still called self-defense forces and the navy. It is not for nothing that voices from Japan about the seizure of the Kuriles by force began to sound louder and louder. Dreaming is not harmful. As well as about the most silent ones, which no one has yet listened to.
  8. Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 19 October 2020 11: 12
    +1
    Well, no wonder: a generation younger.
  9. Gust
    Gust 19 October 2020 11: 16
    +2
    No problem constructively protect the boat from self-acceleration or even fire LIAB. It's just that no one wants to turn on their heads or lobby for their outdated concepts. According to calculations, only 150-200 tons of additional displacement (relative to a boat without VNEU) give it characteristics that are superior to those of boats with VNEU (stirlings, turbines, EHG, etc. crutches).
  10. Ka-52
    Ka-52 19 October 2020 11: 21
    +6
    by this, the use of lithium-ion batteries significantly reduced the acoustic signature of the diesel-electric submarine, eliminating from its propulsion system some moving parts, usually found in air-independent versions of the power unit

    a layman's question: how can the transition from lead-acid storage batteries to lithium-ion batteries reduce the acoustic noise of submarines? What additional noise did the old batteries make? Did they have to periodically shoot the electrolyte with a poker there to maintain current output? ))
    1. smart fellow
      smart fellow 19 October 2020 11: 48
      0
      commonly found in air-independent versions of the power unit

      Read it inattentively. Compare with VNEU.
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 19 October 2020 12: 14
        +1
        explain how carefully read the phrase
        According to Military Watch, along with this, the use of lithium-ion batteries significantly reduced the acoustic signature of diesel-electric submarines,
        1. smart fellow
          smart fellow 19 October 2020 13: 54
          +5
          This can be explained by the fact that the author of the article used Google Translator. Original article: https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/japan-s-revolutionary-new-big-whale-attack-submarine-could-soon-leave-its-foreign-rivals-obsolete
          Google Translator translates as it is written in the article. Here is the original text:
          Alongside the inherent benefits of using lithium-ion batteries, the new propulsion system has considerably reduced the submarine's acoustic signature by eliminating several of the moving parts typically found in air independent propulsion systems.
          Diesel-electric submarines are not mentioned here and a comparison with submarines with VNEU is given. The author, for some reason, did not check the text in the original language.
  11. APASUS
    APASUS 19 October 2020 11: 27
    +5
    The title does not correspond to the general meaning of the article. The material is more about innovative batteries, which are indirectly related to the silence of the course!
  12. Livonetc
    Livonetc 19 October 2020 11: 40
    -5
    Hush the mouse Shoigu hears.
    And Putin is even higher.
  13. rudolff
    rudolff 19 October 2020 12: 25
    +4
    LIABs give an advantage over diesel-electric submarines with traditional accumulators, but cannot be compared with nuclear submarines with VNEU. Unless you can fill the boat with these LIABs in the most unwilling manner, in the manner of German electric robots of the WWII times. But the cost of such boats will be prohibitive. Perhaps only the Japanese can afford it. The best option is a combination of VNEU with LIABs.
  14. Gunther
    Gunther 19 October 2020 12: 46
    -4
    for this "Big Whale" we have a "Whale catcher" laughing
  15. Seal
    Seal 19 October 2020 13: 39
    +2
    Quote: Mytholog
    11 "I litter", plus this new one against 8, I remember, our old ladies.
    But these same Japanese submarines are not only for our soul. Let's take them to China too. And we shouldn't forget about Korea either. And about the South. Koreans and Japanese will not have friendship for a long time.
    1. Eugene-Eugene
      19 October 2020 13: 42
      +4
      Then the Pacific Fleet should be divided into all partners
  16. Taoist
    Taoist 19 October 2020 14: 00
    +2
    I wonder how the battery type relates to the noise level. Basically.
    1. rudolff
      rudolff 19 October 2020 14: 09
      +1
      By itself, nothing. But the increased capacity of these batteries and the charging speed probably allowed the Japanese to abandon the Stirling engine, which, although not an internal combustion engine, nevertheless added noise to the submarine. And so, purely EM in underwater, as in Varshavyanka.
      1. Taoist
        Taoist 19 October 2020 20: 43
        +1
        Well, with respect to "air-independent" it is understandable ... but then they compare with Varshavyanka and say ours is quieter because on "lithium-ion" ... By the way, how about ionic ones with cooling .... or do they not explode when overheated?
        1. rudolff
          rudolff 19 October 2020 21: 47
          0
          Invalid comparison. And here and there an electric motor. The only thing is that with LIABs, the diesel engine has to rattle less often and the charging time is shorter.
          How the Japanese solved the problems of these batteries, I do not know. Time will tell. We still can't do it. Although they officially certified traction batteries for maritime transport. There is still a murky story with Losharik.
  17. yfast
    yfast 19 October 2020 14: 16
    +1
    And diesel ones, when they run on batteries, are they really loud? What is the noise in there besides the propeller and the galley?
    1. rudolff
      rudolff 19 October 2020 15: 56
      +1
      Also boatswain, chief officer and cook. These are the noisiest elements on diesel-electric submarines in underwater.
  18. Motorist
    Motorist 19 October 2020 22: 05
    0
    the use of lithium-ion batteries significantly reduced the acoustic signature of the diesel-electric submarine, eliminating some moving parts from its propulsion system

    Have you removed the armature or stator? Magnetic Lead Bearings? Where do the batteries come from? I am not being ironic, there is simply no specifics in the presence of a statement. request
  19. AlexVas44
    AlexVas44 20 October 2020 10: 14
    0
    ... in terms of its slow speed, it will outshine all other types of submarines, including the famous "Black Holes" ...

    Yes, it will eclipse. Slow is the inability to move quickly, walk.