Hush "Varshavyanka": the West spoke about new Japanese submarines

Submarine Big Whale ("Big whale") should become the first representative of a new class of attack diesel-electric submarines - the Taigei project. It is expected to outshine all other types of submarines in terms of its slow speed, including the famous "Black Holes" - the Russian "Varshavyanka".

First in the world

This opinion is expressed by the Military Watch (USA). The first submarine in its class was launched on October 14 this year. It is expected to enter service in 2021. The project, which has accumulated more than ten years of research, was developed by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. The result is a product that is destined to pioneer a number of entirely new technologies.

The most notable feature of the new ship is the use of the world's first lithium-ion batteries in its propulsion system. Currently, these batteries are used only on Japanese submarines of the "Soryu" type. However, they received them not during construction, but in the process of modernization, which does not make these batteries an integral part of the design.

Lithium-ion cells provide increased endurance at high speeds and allow submarines to charge faster, as well as extend battery life, compared to lead acid counterparts, the developer claims. They are also less cumbersome and require less maintenance attention.

Quieter "Varshavyanok"

However, the new technology has affected the price of the product. For example, the Soryu submarine costs about $ 488 million with old batteries and already $ 608 million with new ones. Taigei Class already costs $ 710 million. But, most likely, some of the additional costs will pay off over time due to savings in operation.

The new submarine has a displacement of about 3000 tons, making it the largest submarine built by Japan since World War II. According to Military Watch, along with this, the use of lithium-ion batteries significantly reduced the acoustic signature of diesel-electric submarines, eliminating from its propulsion system some of the moving parts usually found in air-independent versions of the power unit.

This unique technology could well make the Taigi-class submarines the quietest attack submarines in the world, taking the place of the latest improved versions of the Russian Kilo [Varshavyanok] submarines or the modernized Japanese Soryu class.

- concludes Military Watch, believing that the new standard will be widely recognized in the world by the end of the decade.

Comments

[BDRM 667]

The most notable feature of the new ship is the use of the world's first lithium-ion batteries in its propulsion system. Currently, these batteries are used only on Japanese submarines of the "Soryu" type. However, they received them not during construction, but in the process of modernization, which does not make these batteries an integral part of the design.

Lithium-ion cells provide increased endurance at high speeds and allow submarines to charge faster, as well as extend battery life, compared to lead acid counterparts, the developer claims. They are also less cumbersome and require less maintenance attention.

At the same time, in another article (Taigei: Japan returns to diesel-electric submarines) it is said about this boat - https://topwar.ru/176165-tajgjej-japonija-vozvraschaetsja-k-dizel-jelektricheskim-podlodkam.html:

The main advantage of diesel-electric submarines over Soryu-type submarines is less noise. Unlike Stirling engines, an electric power plant in all modes, incl. produces less noise underwater. In addition, lithium-ion batteries are used, which are superior to traditional lead-acid in all respects.

In this case, the selected batteries are not without drawbacks. First of all, this is a high cost. In addition, batteries generate heat during charging and discharging, and can emit toxic vapors or ignite if operating modes are violated. All this imposes special requirements on the equipment of the battery wells, on which the survivability and stability of the ship and the life of its crew depend..

As you can see, there are pluses and minuses in using such batteries, the technology of which is not yet perfect ...

[Bersaglieri]

If LiIon- then there is no "stirring". And when charging, all batteries generate heat - thermodynamics-s :)

[dauria]

If LiIon- then there is no "stirling"

The history of 1942 repeated itself one to one. In November, in Paris, Doenitz held a meeting "locators drove boats under water, what to do?" The Germans already had a boat with VNEU - an experimental V-80 with a Walter turbine on peroxide, and a project of type XVII. As a result, we made an electric boat type XXI. Those reserves of displacement for peroxide were taken up by batteries, and that's it. With "lighters" after the war, everyone was wise and eventually spat. The infrastructure of the bases is too expensive, and the result in performance characteristics is inconspicuous.
That the nine-meter insert in the case for Stirling, that the same insert for the batteries - the result is almost the same, and there is less fuss.
And forget about the fire hazard of Li-ION. There was a problem - metallic lithium, it was eliminated long ago. Now they are no more dangerous than ordinary lead ones. Do not think, do not close, do not pierce.

[Bersaglieri]

Exactly. And the specific capacity is several times higher.

[Zaurbek]

And the structure does not need to be greatly altered ...

[Machito]

And don't lithium-ion batteries explode? The batteries in mobile phones are well undermined. So that the number of dives of enemy Japanese boats is always one more than surfacing

[smart fellow]

Can we conclude that you don't use Mobile? All smartphones have lithium-ion batteries.

[Machito]

Using a mobile phone, but the batteries sometimes swell, and they will burst.

[Roman070280]

Since when are they enemy to us ??
Everyone is happy to buy Sony TVs.

[Eugene-Eugene]

In these TVs from Sonya, only a couple of boards remained

[Zaurbek]

In the Sony TVs themselves ...

[Machito]

Quote: Roman070280

Since when are they enemy to us ??
Everyone is happy to buy Sony TVs.

And when were the Yapas our friends? Never!!!! They have always been our enemies and plan to continue to be them. Little did we kill them in 1945. Oh, not enough.

[Jacket in stock]

There are billions of mobile phones in the world.
There are only a few cases of fires and explosions.
And even then, mostly with very misuse.
If we discard those famous Samsungs, in which there was a constructive defect, then the number of fires is statistically negligible.

[Stasi]

Quote: Jacket in stock

There are billions of mobile phones in the world.
There are only a few cases of fires and explosions.
And even then, mostly with very misuse.

The video outlines the reasons for the fire hazard of such batteries and the steps that battery manufacturers are taking to eliminate them.

[KCA]

Videvo did not look, the third contact is fucking not needed for an acc in the phone, it happened like this, it was zapadlo to buy charging for a specific phone, temporary, stupidly soldered +/- acc to charging and charged, why is the 3rd contact?

[BDRM 667]

Quote: KCA

Videvo did not look, the 3rd contact is fucking not needed for the account in the phone

But I watched the video, and realized that the 3rd contact is needed to control the temperature of the battery, which is not unimportant for the lithium-ion type of batteries, which is actually mentioned in the article about the submarine ...

[Motorist]

Quote: BDRM 667

3rd contact is needed for temperature control

Looked for 4 minutes. Rather, not control, but short circuit protection. Wisely.
9 minutes - and also high voltage protection.

With an analog multimeter it would be clearer.

[Motorist]

15 minutes. - yes, you are right - thermistor. But again, not control, but protection. A Pt100 (1000) or thermocouple is usually used for control.

[KCA]

If a crack just happens in a lithium battery, no temperature control will save, it will burn out in pants, God forbid, remain alive, and a man or a woman, depending on what was originally

[Mytholog]

Yes, the Pacific Fleet's Varshavyanka is getting hotter. 11 "I litter", plus this new one against 8, I remember, our old ladies.

[smart fellow]

The Pacific Fleet has long been no rival to the Japanese. Therefore, Tu-95s fly around Japan. It is reminded that an asymmetrical answer can be given.

[Vladimir Mashkov]

It is inherent in the West and the United States to always praise everything that is its own, and scold everything that is not its own (most often Russian and Chinese). Again, what can be quieter than silence? Only SPECIALISTS can say. And then only after careful study and comparison! So, it makes sense to wait with a FINAL assessment of the Japanese project, equipped with, though promising, but ambiguous batteries ...

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: Mytholog

Yes, the Pacific Fleet's Varshavyanka is getting hotter. 11 "I litter", plus this new one against 8, I remember, our old ladies.

That the Japanese at the Pacific Fleet from Fujiyama do not care.
The Chinese fleet is at their side, the main tactical opposition between the Japanese and Chinese fleets.

[rocket757]

An interesting experiment.
So it is not safe on any boats, but with the proper skill, the risks are reduced to an acceptable level.
Stealth by any means! Exploitation will show what is most important.

[prior]

Man is not a rational being.
He creates absolutely useless things, such as weapons.
Over time, it, weapons, either becomes obsolete and therefore useless, or destroyed and also becomes useless.
And the weapons that did not have time to become obsolete and become useless were created by man to destroy the man himself.
The cycle of uselessness in human society.
Well, after that, how can a person be called an intelligent creature ?!
Well, the Americans destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and now the Japanese are creating weapons to be destroyed again. What's the point?

[Eugene-Eugene]

Humanity has always been fragmented into factions - individuals, families, clans, tribes, states. If it becomes monolithic, then the need for enmity will cease to operate. But then all the voiced manifestations of humanity will cease to exist. Even if we assume that only one state will appear, then people will not stop killing each other - at least at the level of interpersonal relations.

[Jacket in stock]

Man is a product of natural selection.
Survived are those who, relatively speaking, ate their neighbors and competitors.
Therefore, the desire to eat a neighbor is a vital reflex that ensures survival.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Survived are those who, relatively speaking, ate their neighbors and competitors.

Those who exchanged the gene pool survived - they took wives from a neighboring tribe in order to expand the gene pool and avoid deformities.
But those who "ate" their neighbors - they degenerated, no Neanderthals remained, although in the genome of European homo-sapiens from 1,5 to 3,5% of the genome of Neanderthals was preserved.

A comparison of the genomes of the Neanderthal and modern humans showed that approximately 2% of the genome of every modern European and Asian is of Neanderthal origin (and in African populations, Neanderthal alleles are absent)

https://elementy.ru/nauchno-populyarnaya_biblioteka/434022/Genom_neandertaltsa_otkrytye_voprosy

So maybe they did, but first ..

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: Dmitry Vladimirovich

... degenerated no Neanderthals left

when I hear the speeches of politicians, in Europe, the USA, and in Ukraine, at times, it seems to me that their (Neanderthals) is getting bigger ?! !!!

[Angelo Provolone]

He creates absolutely useless things, such as weapons.
Over time, it, weapons, either becomes obsolete and therefore useless, or destroyed and also becomes useless.
And the weapons that did not have time to become obsolete and become useless were created by man to destroy the man himself.
The cycle of uselessness in human society.

Liberalism

[prior]

What kind of liberalism it is, this is pure pacifism.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: prior

He creates absolutely useless things, such as weapons.
Over time, it, weapons, either becomes obsolete and therefore useless, or destroyed and also becomes useless.
And the weapons that did not have time to become obsolete and become useless were created by man to destroy the man himself.
The cycle of uselessness in human society.

Weapons are not useless; they pose a potential threat of use for both defense and attack.
For some, this creates a temptation to use it for enrichment, expanding influence, but the presence of comparable weapons from the opposite side serves as a deterrent.
So weapons can be not only destructive, but also a stabilizing factor - a deterrent, which has become the nuclear triad.

[Whirlwind]

Where will its quietness go when the vaunted batteries run out and go under a diesel engine ..?
Here her Varshavyanka crashes.

[Lex_is]

Will definitely crash!
It remains only to wait until they begin to walk under the RDP in front of Varshavyanka.

[Whirlwind]

Snipers have no other way.

[Jacket in stock]

At Varshavyanka, if in cho, the battery will be discharged several times faster. Therefore, it is much more likely that this Jap will quietly bang Varshavyanka, which is rattling with a diesel engine.

[Whirlwind]

In addition to the "thundering" diesel engine, there are still many different gadgets for different tihushniki ...
And vosche - "Our proud Varyag does not surrender to the enemy!"

[rotmistr60]

Japan is systematically strengthening its armed forces, which for some reason are still called self-defense forces and the navy. It is not for nothing that voices from Japan about the seizure of the Kuriles by force began to sound louder and louder. Dreaming is not harmful. As well as about the most silent ones, which no one has yet listened to.

[Bersaglieri]

Well, no wonder: a generation younger.

[Flurry]

No problem constructively protect the boat from self-acceleration or even fire LIAB. It's just that no one wants to turn on their heads or lobby for their outdated concepts. According to calculations, only 150-200 tons of additional displacement (relative to a boat without VNEU) give it characteristics that are superior to those of boats with VNEU (stirlings, turbines, EHG, etc. crutches).

[Ka-52]

by this, the use of lithium-ion batteries significantly reduced the acoustic signature of the diesel-electric submarine, eliminating from its propulsion system some moving parts, usually found in air-independent versions of the power unit

a layman's question: how can the transition from lead-acid storage batteries to lithium-ion batteries reduce the acoustic noise of submarines? What additional noise did the old batteries make? Did they have to periodically shoot the electrolyte with a poker there to maintain current output? ))

[smart fellow]

commonly found in air-independent versions of the power unit

Read it inattentively. Compare with VNEU.

[Ka-52]

explain how carefully read the phrase

According to Military Watch, along with this, the use of lithium-ion batteries significantly reduced the acoustic signature of diesel-electric submarines,

[smart fellow]

This can be explained by the fact that the author of the article used Google Translator. Original article: https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/japan-s-revolutionary-new-big-whale-attack-submarine-could-soon-leave-its-foreign-rivals-obsolete
Google Translator translates as it is written in the article. Here is the original text:
Alongside the inherent benefits of using lithium-ion batteries, the new propulsion system has considerably reduced the submarine's acoustic signature by eliminating several of the moving parts typically found in air independent propulsion systems.
Diesel-electric submarines are not mentioned here and a comparison with submarines with VNEU is given. The author, for some reason, did not check the text in the original language.

[APASUS]

The title does not correspond to the general meaning of the article. The material is more about innovative batteries, which are indirectly related to the silence of the course!

[Livonetc]

Hush the mouse Shoigu hears.
And Putin is even higher.

[Gunther]

for this "Big Whale" we have a "Whale catcher"

[Seal]

Quote: Mytholog

11 "I litter", plus this new one against 8, I remember, our old ladies.

But these same Japanese submarines are not only for our soul. Let's take them to China too. And we shouldn't forget about Korea either. And about the South. Koreans and Japanese will not have friendship for a long time.

[Eugene-Eugene]

Then the Pacific Fleet should be divided into all partners

[Taoist]

I wonder how the battery type relates to the noise level. Basically.

[Taoist]

Well, with respect to "air-independent" it is understandable ... but then they compare with Varshavyanka and say ours is quieter because on "lithium-ion" ... By the way, how about ionic ones with cooling .... or do they not explode when overheated?

[yfast]

And diesel ones, when they run on batteries, are they really loud? What is the noise in there besides the propeller and the galley?

[Motorist]

the use of lithium-ion batteries significantly reduced the acoustic signature of the diesel-electric submarine, eliminating some moving parts from its propulsion system

Have you removed the armature or stator? Magnetic Lead Bearings? Where do the batteries come from? I am not being ironic, there is simply no specifics in the presence of a statement.

[AlexVas44]

... in terms of its slow speed, it will outshine all other types of submarines, including the famous "Black Holes" ...

Yes, it will eclipse. Slow is the inability to move quickly, walk.