U-turn from Russia? Indonesia looking for new amphibious armored personnel carriers and other equipment in the West

A representative delegation of the Indonesian military makes a tour of Western countries, closely looking at the analogues of Russian armory systems that, until recently, were considered the most suitable for local conditions.

Tour of the West

The United States turned a blind eye to the crimes of the kidnapping and disappearance of political activists imputed to Indonesian Defense Minister Prabovo Subianto and issued him a visa to enter the country. With him arrived a number of parliamentarians, according to whom, against the background of tensions in the South China Sea, there were "talks" about the possibility of acquiring an American F-35 fighter.

As for the fighter, there is confidence that it should be [in the procurement package], but this is only a small part of the broader negotiations

- explained in the delegation.

On October 20, she is to arrive in Austria, where negotiations will be held on the possibility of acquiring Typhoon fighters from the stock. Earlier, it was about the purchase of 15 vehicles as part of the "minimum required forces" deployment program.

At the same time, it is expected that the main agreements will be reached in France, where the delegation intends to arrive on October 22. It was previously indicated that Indonesia is interested in acquiring 48 Rafale jet aircraft, up to 4 Scorpene submarines armed with Exocet SM39 missiles, and two Gowind corvettes weighing 2500 tons. The cost of the entire package of purchases of military equipment is estimated at $ 25-28 billion.

Far reaching reversal

Apparently, changes should be expected in the plans to strengthen the armored forces of the Marine Corps. The Ambassador of Indonesia to Romania Azet visited the production center of the ROMARM company in Moreni, where he got acquainted with the amphibious versions of armored vehicles. The company's management assured the diplomat of their readiness to transfer their technological skills.

According to the company's administration, the production time for one piece of equipment is only two weeks. It has already established itself in Bangladesh, Darfur (Sudan) and Kosovo.

The last [developed by the enterprise] amphibious armored personnel carrier SAUR-2 was tested in Bangladesh, which has a similar [coastal] contour to Indonesia

- it is noted on the website of the Indonesian embassy.

In all likelihood, the forces in Indonesia have gained weight in favor of a sharp turn to the West, away from Russia. According to their ranks, due to the introduction to Western technologies, it is possible to build up local production potential.

This will support efforts to integrate the national defense industry into the global value chain.

- said in a press release from the Indonesian Embassy in Paris regarding contacts with the French military-industrial complex.

Comments

[Graz]

Ha, it's funny, but the Indonesian Wishlist, with the West palm oil for weapons will not work, but about Rafale, let India ask what they got up in the end

This will support efforts to integrate the national defense industry into the global value chain.

this is generally funny to read, no one will produce competitors for themselves

[Alex777]

And thank God!
If they paid money, one could be a little upset.
And so there will be much less palm oil in our food.

[Vladimir61]

Quote: Alex777

If they paid money, one could be a little upset.
And so there will be much less palm oil in our food.

Physically, oil was not imported to Russia for our equipment supplied to Indonesia! The generally accepted in world practice scheme, "commodity-exchange-money", worked. That is, it was supplied to the commodity exchange, where it was sold to Russian private companies.
In our food, it will be less when we start using our traditional sunflower. And it seems that such a company has already begun, obliging to label products and separate it on store shelves.

For the big picture, practically all palm oil (on average 1 million tons) is used for the production of fats (in the production of chocolate, dairy, confectionery, bakery and perfumery). It is private companies that buy it, not the state. In October 2019, Russia increased the VAT rate on its import from 10 to 20%, which made it possible to increase the federal budget to 5-5,3 billion rubles. in year.

[Alex777]

When the state has 1 tons of this "good", there is a great temptation to sell "good" to someone and get money.
Western companies take directly and better quality. Therefore, they sell them to our companies, including in the market way (cheaply).

[d4rkmesa]

On the one hand, so, but it is not excluded "cheating" by the locals, because in this case, ours compete in their own market for buyers. On the one hand, there is good news about VAT, because harmful and ersatz foods will rise in price. On the other hand, oil has risen in price by 25-30 percent in recent years, which raises suspicion if this is the reason.

[Alex 2020]

Whats wrong with that? They are looking for more modern and technologically advanced models of technology. To replace the 30-40-year-old "no-hawkanalogues". Unfortunately, Russia is unable to offer anything new. It cannot arm itself with modern GBT models. Normal practice.

[Eugene-Eugene]

Sauras on any technological breakthrough will be. Romanians, on the other hand, have long been familiar with Western excellence. Now ahead of the rest of the planet in amphibious armored personnel carriers. Where are the Russian BT-shkam.

[Keyser soze]

Sauras on any technological breakthrough will be. Romanians, on the other hand, have long been familiar with Western excellence. Now ahead of the rest of the planet in amphibious armored personnel carriers. Where are the Russian BT-shkam.

By the way ... it will be quite a technological breakthrough. In 2018, General Dynamics European Land Systems opened a General Dynamics European Land Systems plant in Bukuresche and produces Piranha V 8x8, in cooperation with Elbit Systems.

So this is Saur, it is likely the same Piranha V or their version. You can still laugh ...

And to add that the products are not only assembled in Romania, but there is also localization and production. So you make not only for your own armored personnel carriers, but you remain a global supplier for General Dynamics and start making money. Benefits for everyone.
These guys will also win a tender from us, for a cost of about 800-900 million euros and are already looking for Bulgarian companies for joint production. So they have played everything in detail.

[Doccor18]

They are looking for more modern and technologically advanced equipment.

In Romania ..

To replace the 30-40-year-old "untrue analogs".

Well, here, perhaps, I agree. The BMP-3F in service with the Indonesian Marine Corps could be updated with some kind of "floating Boomerang", but ...
The Indonesians have had a good relationship with Sukhoi for many years. What happened? Why don't they want the SU-35? After all, the service will be cheaper. They already have Su-30 and Su-27. Why did they need Rafali Typhoons ..? Here again politics, which is more important than the economy, and defense, and just logic.

[donavi49]

The Americans threatened with sanctions on their package. And this will hit the country's GDP.
The problem with the sale of palm oil and the search for alternatives in terms of the commodity component.

The main competitor to the best Su-30s from Irkut (Indonesia has primitive Su-30s from Komsomolsk) - he also bought an F-18.

[Doccor18]

The Americans threatened with sanctions on their package. And this will hit the country's GDP.

Yes. Competently American corporations do business with the hands of politicians. The whole world is in the knee-elbow. Only a few resist ...

[Thrifty]

This is a serious wake-up call for our defense industry, because the competition in the arms market is high, and the loss of a potential client is also a blow to the country's image. ..

[Grits]

It's only the beginning. As a result of the Karabakh war, all buyers of Russian air defense will also think about it ...

[Thrifty]

Gritsa, thank God for the air defense of Russia? In Karabakh, the Old S300, which stood like 3 poplars on Plyushchikha, without cover, were struck precisely because the dead zone of the air defense was not closed by any more or less modern air defense systems - not Tori, not Buks, not the same Armors! That is why such an inappropriate result! !!

[Grits]

Quote: Thrifty

Gritsa, thank God for the air defense of Russia? In Karabakh, the Old S300, which stood like 3 poplars on Plyushchikha, without cover, were struck precisely because the dead zone of the air defense was not closed by any more or less modern air defense systems - not Tori, not Buks, not the same Armors! That is why such an inappropriate result! !!

So that's the whole trick - no one will bother with the arguments you have given. The main thing is a beautiful headline in the media. For example - "The S-300, which had shot down nothing in its entire history, was easily destroyed by a small drone." How does it feel?

[PSih2097]

Quote: Gritsa

It's only the beginning. As a result of the Karabakh war, all buyers of Russian air defense will also think about it ...

Well, in Syria, then, there are also S-400 and S-300V4, not counting the naval systems, so what? and layered air defense ... They are something serious (Chinese "UAVs with IEDs" do not count) shot down? No - because there is no political will ...

[faiver]

The strength of the dollar is on the face, plus the sins of the country's corrupt leadership and voila ...

[Niel-le-Calais]

what emotional authors do we have

The United States turned a blind eye to the crimes of the kidnapping and disappearance of political activists imputed to Indonesian Defense Minister Prabovo Subianto and issued him a visa to enter the country.

oh he is a radish, oh he is a pike's son .. so we would not close our eyes to crimes

MOSCOW, 25 June 2020, 09:51 - REGNUM Indonesian Defense Minister Prabovo Subianto arrived at the Victory Parade in Moscow, Detik reports.
The publication notes that Prabovo Subianto also met with the Minister of Defense of China Wei Fenghe there.

apparently there he was punished for his malicious crimes ...

Indonesian Defense Minister Prabovo Subianto met with Russian Deputy Defense Minister Alexander Fomin in Moscow (June 23, 2020).
The parties discussed efforts to expand bilateral cooperation in the field of defense, including in the fields of education, joint training and the defense industry.

What reversal is that? The usual aspiration here and there.
And why write that he is a bad man, if you yourself have a mustache?

[Serpet]

The United States turned a blind eye to the crimes (kidnapping and disappearance of political activists) imputed to Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto and issued him a visa to enter the country

In anticipation of orders. And money, as you know, does not smell.

[yehat2]

Quote: Vladimir61

It is private companies that buy, not the state

but the state accepts GOSTs, according to which palm oil is approx.
manufacturers start dumping and as a result, everyone who remains on the market uses the palm tree.
in general, no need to dissemble. It is the state that seriously affects the quality of what is sold to us.

[yehat2]

the fact that Indonesia abandoned the BMP-3F is understandable.
Her buoyancy is only for lakes, and even then not for everyone.
As for the Sukhoi aircraft, there are probably already noticeably outdated versions.
so take it naturally. If we were selling hundreds of aircraft with modern filling every year on the foreign market, we might not refuse.
The reasons should not be sought from them, but from us.

[Koval Sergey]

In my opinion, Indonesia can afford more than one type of amphibians - the geography of the territory, the absence of dependence on a single supplier, etc. Naturally, this costs money.

[Old26]

Quote: Thrifty

Gritsa, thank God for the air defense of Russia? In Karabakh, the Old S300, which stood like 3 poplars on Plyushchikha, without cover, were struck precisely because the dead zone of the air defense was not closed by any more or less modern air defense systems - not Tori, not Buks, not the same Armors! That is why such an inappropriate result! !!

The West doesn't care if they are old or not. They are RUSSIAN. And all the power of the propaganda apparatus will, if necessary, be aimed precisely at this factor - "Russian air defense systems are being hit by Turkish drones." After that, we can prove, as much as our heart desires, that the systems are old, the calculations are crooked. This will not bother anyone.
You have always said that our S-300 and S-400 "have no analogues" and are the best in existence. And they are struck either by a drone or by a "kamikaze drone". And the western man does not care that they are old, that they stood openly, without disguise, that they had no cover. It may be later and they will write as a refutation, but on some 36 page in small print ...

[cat Rusich]

Quote: Old26

And the western man does not care that they are old, that they stood openly, without disguise, that they had no cover. It may be later and they will write as a refutation, but on some 36 page in small print ...

Air defense systems, airplanes, tanks, ships, submarines ... and so on and so on are bought by the STATE, not the LOVE. The sale of weapons in "peacetime" is 200% corruption and 300% politics. About air defense - today it is already necessary to sell an "air defense complex" - for example: you sell the S-300, and along with it there are medium-range air defense systems and short-range air defense systems + electronic warfare. Let me explain: you buy an "air defense complex" from several air defense systems that cover each other at all ranges, starting with the most distant + electronic warfare against any "small things" (small UAVs), and do not forget about training "buyer's antiaircraft gunners". It turns out "very expensive" - ​​but "not more expensive" than LOSS.

[Old26]

Quote: cat Rusich

Air defense systems, airplanes, tanks, ships, submarines ... and so on and so on are bought by the STATE, not the LIVESTOR.

This is true. But it is the layman and the media who create that propaganda background. Remember the events two years ago and the presentation by the President of the so-called. "weapons of March 1". After that, for 2 weeks the whole country was buzzing, only this was discussed, even including "grandmothers at the entrance". Those who buy will be under the pressure of public opinion purely humanly. And he will hardly be understood if he buys something that has shown itself poorly in the war ..

Quote: cat Rusich

About air defense - today it is already necessary to sell an "air defense complex" - for example: you sell the S-300, and along with it there are medium-range air defense systems and short-range air defense systems + electronic warfare. Let me explain: you buy an "air defense complex" of several air defense systems that cover each other at all ranges, starting with the most distant + electronic warfare against any "small things" (small UAVs), and do not forget about training "buyer's antiaircraft gunners". It turns out "very expensive" - ​​but "not more expensive" than LOSS.

Not a bad idea, but difficult to implement. it just so happened that the rich countries are most often supporters (allies) of the United States. And those who buy from us hardly have sufficient reserves of foreign exchange to buy "the entire air defense complex." Look how much they buy our same air defense systems. One, at best two regimental sets. The same Iran bought from us the S-300 in the amount of one regimental (three divisional) set. And he ripped apart "divisional". And it is much easier to "take out" a division, if necessary, than a regiment. But to cover those objects where divisions are used, it would be desirable to have at least a regiment.