Military Review

The most important battles of World War II?

227

David Hambling fromPopular mechanics”Produced a very interesting work. He took the liberty of publishing a rating of the most important battles of World War II, and now we will go through it from the first to the last point. His article talks about 20 battles, but in fact there are 22 of them. Which does not detract from the work done by David.


Naturally, with comments.

22. Narva offensive operation of 1944




This battle of Narva should not be confused with the other battle of Narva that took place between 1700-1721 during the Great Northern War (although both battles were fought in Narva, Estonia).

Agree, for an American, just an incomparable knowledge of our stories!

During the Battle of Narva in World War II, Germany and the Leningrad Front vied for control of the Narva Isthmus. The battle consisted of two stages: the battle for the Narva bridgehead and the battle for the Tannenberg line. German troops held their ground and obstructed Soviet attempts to build a stronghold in Narva. Both sides lost more than 500 soldiers combined.

In fact, the losses in the Narva offensive operation were an order of magnitude lower. 2500 people from the German troops and 4500 from our army. Narva was liberated and the Tannenberg defense line was destroyed during the Tallinn operation.

Brilliant knowledge of history, but, from my point of view, the moment is quite ordinary.


21. Lifting the blockade of Leningrad 1941-1944.



The siege of Leningrad, also known as the "900-day siege" because it lasted almost the same (in fact, it lasted 872 days), occurred when German and Finnish troops surrounded Leningrad and took the city. In just one year, the blockade claimed more than 650 Soviet lives due to hunger, disease and shelling.

I think everyone will agree. The blockade of Leningrad and its breakthrough was one of the epoch-making events of that war. Very difficult to understand and perceive, but again, applause to David.

20. The capture of Crete by Germany in 1941



One of the most daring operations in Germany's conquest of Europe was the air attack on the Greek island of Crete. The first action, during which a massive airborne assault was carried out. Crete was defended by British and Greek forces, which had some success against lightly armed paratroopers. However, delays and disruptions in communication between the Allies allowed the Germans to seize the vital airfield at Maleme and transfer reinforcements there. As soon as the Nazis gained air superiority, a landing at sea followed. The Allies surrendered after two weeks of fighting.

Indeed, it was a successful amphibious operation carried out by the Luftwaffe and the Wehrmacht.

19. Iwo Jima. 1944 g.


The most important battles of World War II?

The Battle of Iwo Jima is a landmark event, but military analysts are still debating whether the island's limited strategic value justified such an expensive move. Twenty thousand Japanese defenders were entrenched in a complex system of bunkers, caves and tunnels. The attack was preceded by a massive naval and aerial bombardment that lasted several days and covered the entire island. Despite being outnumbered five times and having no hope of victory, the Japanese put up strong resistance and almost no one gave up.

I agree with the American: Iwo Jima had more propaganda and political significance than strategic.

18. Battle of Anzio. 1944 g.



The Allies invaded Italy in 1943, but by 1944 had only advanced as far as the Gustav Line south of Rome. Therefore, the high command organized a massive landing operation to encircle the Italians and Germans.

About 36 men landed, but while the Allies were turning, the Germans surrounded the area with equivalent forces and dug defensive positions. After heavy fighting and unsuccessful offensives in February, the Allies were pushed back almost to the very beachhead. It took more than 000 more reinforcements and five months of fighting to finally break out of Anzio.

It is difficult to say to whom this operation can be recorded as an asset. It certainly did not have a real meaning for the success of the entire war, but the meat grinder turned out to be notable.

17. The Battle of Monte Cassino. 1944 g.



After Anzio, the Germans took up defensive positions known as the winter line, consisting of bunkers, barbed wire, minefields, and ditches. Four consecutive Allied attacks on these positions became known as the Battle of Monte Cassino. The battle was reminiscent of the battle of the First World War, with artillery shelling preceding infantry attacks on fortified positions. Success was bought at the cost of more than 50 Allied casualties.

Today, the battle is mostly remembered for the destruction of the Abbey of Monte Cassino (where civilians were hiding) with more than a hundred Flying Fortresses I-17, when the Allies mistook the abbey for a German artillery observation position.

Roughly the same as Anzio. A very dubious result, especially if we add to it the destruction of a historical monument, in which there was not a single German soldier.

16. Battle of Belgium. 1944 g.



Following the June 1944 invasion, the Allies withdrew from Normandy and advanced rapidly through France and Belgium. Hitler intended to stop them with a sudden blow. Some tank divisions concentrated in the Ardennes in order to break through the Allied defenses. American troops held out stubbornly, despite heavy casualties, with more than 19 dead. The Germans had limited supplies and could only fight for a few days before they ran out of fuel and ammunition, so the offensive soon dried up. Subsequently, Germany did not have the resources for a new offensive, and the end was inevitable.

Doubtful again. Especially if you remember that Churchill in January 1945 very much asked Stalin to speed up the offensive operations of the Red Army - then it does not look very victorious at all.

15. Battle of Sedan. 1940 g.



When England and France declared war on Germany after the Nazi invasion of Poland, many expected the war to be a repetition of the tactical actions of the infantry of the First World War. This line of thinking led to the French strategy of building heavy concrete fortifications on the Maginot Line. These expectations were shattered in May 1940, when the Germans began a rapid "blitzkrieg" with tank groups. Lacking heavy artillery, the Germans attacked the French positions in Sedan with massive Luftwaffe raids.

Deservedly. It was here that the essence of the "blitzkrieg" was revealed, so that as an example of the successful action of the German army, this episode is quite justified here.

14. Battle of Britain. 1940 g.



By the end of 1940, Britain faced the threat of a German invasion. It all began with an air war waged by the Royal Air Force and the Luftwaffe. For four months, German aircraft struck British airfields, radar stations and aviation factories, and also bombed British cities. However, the RAF emerged victorious from this battle, and Hitler's plans to invade were postponed indefinitely.

Indeed, the aerial battle for Britain is one of the most striking episodes of the war, with very distant consequences.

13. Battle of Brody. 1941 g.



Hitler's plan to attack Soviet Russia was called Operation Barbarossa. On paper, he looked insane (given the outnumbered Russians and the infamous history of the enemy invasion of Russia). Hitler, however, believed that the blitzkrieg could not be stopped, and the Battle of Brody in western Ukraine would prove him right. For some time.

750 German tanks collided with four times as many Red Army tanks. But the Soviet aircraft were destroyed on the ground, and the German Stuks were able to dominate that area. In addition to destroying tanks, they targeted fuel and ammunition supplies and disrupted communications. The bewildered Russian troops were completely incapacitated, and their numerical superiority did not matter.

Yes, in terms of the number of tanks, this battle is second only to the Battle of Kursk. Indeed, the Soviet command, in the person of Zhukov, Kirponos and Purkaev, lost outright to von Runsted and von Kleist.

12. Battle of Leyte Gulf.



The largest naval battle in history, the Battle of Leyte Gulf off the Philippines, was another step in the US advance towards the Japanese islands. All available Japanese forces were thrown into the area, but the individual units were unable to unite, leading to several actions scattered over a wide area. All four Japanese light aircraft carriers were sunk, as were three battleships. Leyte Bay also marked the first use of a desperate new tactic: the escort aircraft carrier USS St. Lo was sunk after a bomb-carrying Japanese kamikaze deliberately crashed on its deck.

You can also add that in this battle the Americans were saved by a real miracle in the person of Admiral Kurita and his more than strange actions. The Americans used 110% of Kurita's mistakes and turned the operation that promised the defeat of their unit into a remarkable victory.

These battles, which we call the Battle of Leyte Gulf, deserve a place in the history of war.


11. Battle of the Atlantic. 1939-1943



Submarine warfare had an impact in World War I, but became more significant in World War II, when German submarines sought to blockade Britain. Merchant ships set out in large convoys, protected by groups of destroyers and corvettes armed with depth charges and sonars. Daring submarine commanders carried out torpedo attacks within the warrant, and when several submarines attacked simultaneously, the defenders had little chance of retaliating. The Battle of the Atlantic was ultimately won by technology. Radar for detecting submarines from the surface, radio interception, code breaking - all this played a role. By the end of the war, more than 3000 merchant ships had been sunk, as well as nearly 800 submarines.

Indeed, Britain really survived only thanks to supplies from the colonies and the United States. And the Battle of the Atlantic became a long and bloody battle between Doenitz's submarine forces and the Allied fleets.

10. Battle of the Coral Sea. 1942 g.



After Pearl Harbor, the Japanese intended to invade New Guinea and the Solomon Islands, and the American fleet moved to intercept them. This was the first naval battle to be fought over a long distance between aircraft carriers. Dive bombers and torpedo bombers attacked ships protected by fighter units. It was a new and confusing form of warfare where both sides struggled to find the enemy and did not know which ships they saw and went into battle. The most serious loss was the American aircraft carrier USS Lexington, which sank after a fire. This struggle forced Japan to abandon its invasion plans.

Suppose the Japanese did not abandon their plans for an invasion at all, but the fact that the battle was the first in which the main role belonged to aircraft carriers is indeed so.

9. Second battle for Kharkov. 1942 g.



Stalin sought to drive back the invading German armies with an offensive that included over a thousand tanks supported by 700 aircraft. But Germany reduced its effectiveness somewhat with the help of aviation when the Luftwaffe threw more than 900 aircraft into the area.

Then the Germans went on the offensive and surrounded the Russian troops with several tank divisions. Trapped, Russian soldiers surrendered in large numbers. More than a quarter of a million Russian soldiers were killed, wounded or taken prisoner, which is 10 times the number of German casualties.

The Battle of Kharkov in 1942 is undoubtedly one of the most tragic pages in our history and, accordingly, an operation that the Germans could be proud of. But it’s not a lost battle, but a won war.

8. Battle of Luzon. 1945 g.



Luzon, the largest of the Philippine Islands, was captured by Japan in 1942. General Douglas MacArthur is known to have vowed to return to the Philippines, which he considered strategically important, and commanded the invasion force in 1945. The landing of the allies did not meet with resistance, but further, in the interior of the country, fierce battles were fought against the scattered enclaves of Japanese troops. Some of them went to the mountains and continued to fight after the end of the war. The Japanese suffered huge losses - more than 200 killed compared to 000 Americans - making it the bloodiest operation ever involving American troops.

Difficult to comment. It is difficult to assess this carnage. But if I would put her in the rating, then at the very end of the list.

7. Battle in the Philippine Sea. 1944 g.



The last major aircraft carrier battle of World War II, the Battle of the Philippine Sea, took place as American forces were advancing across the Pacific. Japanese forces, which included five heavy and four light aircraft carriers, as well as ground-based aircraft, fought seven heavy and eight light aircraft carriers of the American fleet.

The United States possessed not only numerical superiority, but also significantly better aviation. The new Grumman F6F Hellcat outperformed the old Japanese Zeros. This discrepancy led to the action being dubbed the "Great Mariana Turkey Shooting," in which about four times more Japanese aircraft were shot down than American ones.

This example, unlike the previous one, is well deserved. Indeed, in the battle of the Mariana Islands, the Japanese naval aviation was virtually destroyed, and further destruction at sea became a matter of time.

6. Battle of Berlin. 1945 g.



For those in the West, the Battle of Berlin may seem like an afterthought, the death throes of a war already decided. In fact, it was a massive and extremely bloody action, when three quarters of a million German troops fought a desperate last defense against the advancing Red Army.

The Russians had the advantage in tanks, but the armored vehicles were vulnerable to the new portable anti-tank missiles that destroyed 2000 Soviet tanks. Like the Battle of Stalingrad, the Battle of Berlin was an infantry operation that was fought in close combat. Artillery destroyed defensive strongholds in a city already destroyed by heavy bombing. On April 30, Hitler committed suicide instead of surrendering, effectively ending the war in Europe.

You can't help but applaud. Especially when an American writes that. The Berlin offensive operation is the crown of the entire Great Patriotic War and one of the main pages of the Second World War.

5. Battle of Kursk. 1943 g.



Operation Citadel was the last German offensive on the Eastern Front, and the Kursk tank battle is considered the greatest tank battle of the war. At Kursk, the Nazis intended to repeat their previous successes by encircling and destroying the Russian troops. When the German advance stalled, Marshal Zhukov launched a counterattack and threw the Germans back with heavy losses.

There is nothing to comment on.

4. Battle of Moscow. 1941 g.



More than a million German soldiers were thrown into the attack on Moscow as Hitler ordered the city to be razed to the ground, not captured. At first, the German advance was rapid; by November 15, 1941, they were fighting within 18 miles of the city. They were then slowed down by Russian resistance and early winter set in when temperatures dropped to zero Fahrenheit. The German supply system failed and Russian Marshal Zhukov threw his reserve of Siberian divisions into a counterattack. By January, the Germans were pushed back more than 100 miles. The Russians suffered heavy casualties, but the German offensive momentum was broken.

If not "Russian frosts" - quite. It was not the frosts that broke the Germans, our soldiers did it. But it is not something that can be forgiven for an American - it is necessary.

3. Landing in Normandy. 1944 g.



The largest landing operation in history involved more than 5000 ships landing Allied troops on the heavily defended 50-mile stretch of the Normandy coast, while thousands more took part in the air assault. A major disinformation operation led the Germans to think the landing was a hoax and resistance was weak at four of the five landing sites. In the fifth, Omaha Beach, US forces came under heavy fire and 2000 people died as they tried to escape the beachhead. The Germans were unable to quickly organize their forces to repel the threat. Within a week, the Allies landed more than 300 soldiers in Normandy.

As a successful amphibious operation - yes. As a strategic moment of the war ... Yes, not bad, but we obviously managed it ourselves. This is a fact that cannot be dismissed.

2. Battle of Midway. 1942 g.



Midway was a disastrous defeat from which the Japanese Imperial Navy never fully recovered. Much credit goes to the codebreakers who uncovered a Japanese plan to ambush American troops just in time for the Allies to plan a counterstrike. The Japanese plan to split the American forces also failed. Three of the four Japanese aircraft carriers were destroyed, which changed the course of the war against Japan.

A serious blow to the Japanese fleet, but not Stalingrad or Prokhorovka. A glorious and far-reaching victory for the American Navy.

1. Stalingrad. 1942-1943



In contrast to the epic tank battles on the Eastern Front, Stalingrad was a protracted and bloody urban war, fought from street to street, from house to house, from room to room, while the Red Army resisted German attempts to take the city.

The Red Army's defenses were based on thousands of strongholds, each manned by an infantry squad, in apartments, office buildings and factories, all of which had strict orders forbidding retreat. German artillery and aviation practically destroyed the city, but could not knock out the defenders. In the end, the German troops were surrounded. The total number of victims could be as high as two million people, including civilians.

Deservedly. Amazing. It should also be added that it was in Stalingrad that the Wehrmacht ridge was broken.

Сonclusion


The result is admiration, you know. Getting such an overview from an American is amazing. David Hambling not only did a thorough and precise job, he did it without regard to politics. Honestly and frankly, which is not just a rarity in our time.

After analyzing David's review with a feeling of great gratitude, I could not help but note some not so much inaccuracies, but ... If we are talking about the fact that in 1942 the Germans were good near Kharkov, then why not say about the handsome Japanese in Singapore?

Therefore, we decided to make our review of the successes of EVERY army that took part in that war. Who possessed them, of course.

The analytical and historical cycle will be called "Victory from the point of view ..."... We invite you to rate.

Based on materials The Most Important Battles of World War II.
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  1. Far B
    Far B 19 October 2020 06: 15
    22
    No! I do not agree! The most important battle of World War II was the operation to expel the Japanese invaders from the American island of Kiska, represented by several feral mongrels! And nothing else!
    But seriously, Western and Russian authors will never agree. And how can you compare the battles of the Great Patriotic War with the same Monte Cassino or the Ardennes? In the first case - sometimes millions of soldiers on both sides (Stalingrad, Kursk, Bagration), in the second case - well, you get the idea ... However, for Western authors, of course, those battles where their troops participated will be more important. From the point of view of psychology, this is quite natural. It is not without reason that this list also includes so many "important battles" of the allied side. Therefore, in Russia one can only laugh at such a list.
    And one more thing - how can you record the whole epic with the blockade of Leningrad or the long-term battle for the Atlantic into the category of battles? Here the word "battle", I think, is rather used for a catchphrase.
    1. Alexander Suvorov
      Alexander Suvorov 19 October 2020 06: 58
      +9
      I agree, the list is complete nonsense with rare exceptions. Let's say the same landing in Normandy no longer had any decisive military significance, but was carried out only in order to prevent the Red Army from crushing the whole of Europe and leaving the insolent Saxons with a nose.
      And then, if we talk about objectivity, then where is the operation "Bagration" in the list, where is the defense of Sevastopol, where, in the end, the encirclement of the Red Army troops near Kiev in 1941 (for the Wehrmacht, this is an undoubted success).
      So there is no smell of objectivity here. And no Iwo Jima and Midway decided anything from the point of view of a military turning point. If we talk about Japan, then everything was decided by the lightning defeat of the million-strong Kwantung group, and not the liberation of Kiska Island or any other island.
      1. Far B
        Far B 19 October 2020 07: 05
        0
        No! Kiska rules! laughing You need to make a film about her!
        In the early morning of August 15, the first group of American troops landed on the western coast of the island, and on August 16, Canadians landed a little further north. No one interfered with the landing, however, the veterans of the battle for Attu were not surprised. The Americans expected that only after advancing inland they would face the defensive positions of the Japanese on the dominant heights. However, there was no resistance, the only combat losses of the paratroopers were losses from friendly fire.

        It turned out that the Japanese command, realizing the impossibility of defending a practically isolated island, decided to evacuate the garrison. On July 28, two weeks before the American disembarkation, the entire garrison in the amount of 5183 people within an hour sank onto 2 cruisers and 6 destroyers and was evacuated to Paramushir under cover of fog [5].

        On August 24, General Charles Corlett, commander of the ground forces, stated that the island came under US control.
        During the survey of the island (including many underground tunnels), the Allies lost 32 people killed (28 Americans and 4 Canadians) and about 50 wounded, mostly from friendly fire; 130 soldiers suffered from trench foot [1]. In addition, when the destroyer "Abner Reed" was blown up on a Japanese mine, 71 sailors were killed and 47 were wounded [1]. This led to a total of 313 casualties [6].
        1. Proxima
          Proxima 19 October 2020 09: 40
          19
          With all due respect to this American, this rating is empty if it does not include two outstanding offensive operations - Bagration and the Vistula-Oder operation. In the first case, Germany was brought to its knees, in the second, an aspen stake was driven into the Nazis.
          1. Blacksmith 55
            Blacksmith 55 19 October 2020 11: 03
            +7
            ..... surrounded Leningrad and captured the city.
            I didn't read further.
        2. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 19 October 2020 17: 35
          +3
          "two weeks before the American disembarkation" my applause to the Allied intelligence. Or did the Americans have no idea about intelligence?
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 19: 13
            -1
            Quote: Astra wild2
            Or did the Americans have no idea about intelligence?

            but I liked the speed better:
            the entire garrison in the amount of 5183 people was loaded onto 2 cruisers and 6 destroyers within an hour

            I understand that ...
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 19 October 2020 07: 45
        12
        I agree, the list is complete nonsense with rare exceptions.

        Exactly. Said as cut off.
        On my own I would like to add the enormous significance of the counterstrike at Yelnya, the battle for Smolensk, the battle of Rzhev in January-March 1943, brilliantly organized and executed by Bagration and Korsun-Shevchenko operations.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 12: 37
          -12 qualifying.
          Quote: Doccor18
          Battle of Rzhev

          what
          Quote: Doccor18
          great value

          she had?
          1. boris epstein
            boris epstein 19 October 2020 16: 31
            +6
            The Rzhev-Vyazemskaya battle had three stages. The first is immediately after the counter-offensive near Moscow in order to push the front line as far as possible from Moscow. The second and third stages were carried out with the aim of pinning down the Center army group and not letting it be removed from it to the south in a single soldier, not a single tank, not a single gun. It was then, in the summer of 1942, that there was an unsuccessful attack on Kharkov, the encirclement of Soviet losses and the offensive of the 6th Army of Paulus. This threatened the exit of the Nazi army to the Caucasus, the seizure of oil sources, the interception of oil supply routes along the Volga in the Stalingrad area. This goal was achieved - nothing was withdrawn from the Army Group Center near Stalingrad. That is why Paulus was forced to use Hungarian, Italian and Romanian troops to cover the flanks, which ultimately led to the encirclement and defeat of the Stalingrad group of the Wehrmacht.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 17: 34
              -6
              Quote: Boris Epstein
              The Rzhev-Vyazemskaya battle had three stages.

              four.
        2. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 19 October 2020 17: 44
          +4
          Doccor colleague, let me disagree with you: "the great importance of the counterstrike at Yelnya" in my opinion: the Battle of Moscow and the Battle of Stalingrad were much more important than Yelnya
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 18: 29
            0
            Quote: Astra wild2
            "the enormous significance of the counterattack at Yelnya" in my opinion: the battle of Moscow and the Battle of Stalingrad were much more important than Yelnya

            Certainly.
          2. Doccor18
            Doccor18 19 October 2020 20: 29
            +3
            From myself I would like to ADD ...

            I just added those battles that were not mentioned in the article.
            ... in my opinion: the Battle of Moscow and the Battle of Stalingrad were much more important than Yelnya

            7 billion people agree with your view wink
            However, the counterattack at Yelnya and the Battle of Smolensk should not be underestimated. If not for them, then almost certainly the battles would have reached Moscow. The Germans, of course, did not take the capital, but the city would have got it ... Army Group Center was stuck near Smolensk for a whole month ...
      3. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 08: 53
        +2
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        Let's say the same landing in Normandy no longer had any decisive military significance, but was carried out only in order to prevent the Red Army from crushing the whole of Europe.

        From outside Vitebsk, crushing Europe was not such an obvious thing as you now think.

        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        the encirclement of the Red Army troops near Kiev in 1941 (for the Wehrmacht, this is after all an undoubted success

        Difficult battle in terms of evaluation. The undoubted military success of the Germans, but the blitzkrieg was covered with a copper basin.
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        no Iwo Jima and Midway from the point of view of a military turning point decided nothing

        Iwajima is a tactical operation, in fact, they no more than captured an advanced field airfield, Midway is an interception of the initiative, in the maritime sense, the Pacific Kursk (especially if you remember that 1 aircraft carrier = 1 tank army). But the Americans did not take advantage of this, their Essexes had not yet arrived.
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        If we talk about Japan, then everything was decided by the lightning-fast defeat of the millionth Kwantung group

        The Kwantung group was not in Japan, but in Manchukuo. For this significant reason, it could not have anything to do with the defeat of Japan.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 19 October 2020 12: 14
          0
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          Midway - interception of the initiative, in the naval sense, the Pacific Kursk (especially if you remember that 1 aircraft carrier = 1 tank army). But the Americans did not take advantage of this, their Essexes had not yet arrived.

          Rather, it is a kind of mixture of the Battle of Moscow and Kursk - in the sense that after Midway, instead of a fairly quick counteroffensive, butting for Guadalcanal began (their Kerch-Feodosiya operation smile ).
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 13: 40
            -3
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Rather, it is a kind of mixture of the Battle of Moscow and Kursk - in the sense that after Midway, instead of a fairly quick counteroffensive, butting for Guadalcanal began

            Well, only the letter M is common with the battle near Moscow. For the Americans, this is a completely secondary episode, and next to it, “Moscow is not behind us” is not worth it. If we are to compare, then immediately Bagration, when at first it seemed that there was nothing, if we were lucky we would reach Minsk, but it turned out like that.
            As for the fast - slow offensive, then, forgive me, the Pacific scale is simply not visible from here. By Nimitz's standards, 2K km from Moscow to Berlin is one or two frog jumps.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 19 October 2020 13: 59
              0
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              Well, only the letter M is common with the battle near Moscow. For the Americans, this is a completely secondary episode, and next to it, "Moscow is not behind us."

              Well, for the Americans, while the Yamato has not passed under the Golden Gate, everything is fine. smile

              I had in mind the Battle of Moscow only in terms of the pace of subsequent operations.
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              As for the fast - slow offensive, then, forgive me, the Pacific scale is simply not visible from here. By Nimitz's standards, 2K km from Moscow to Berlin is one or two frog jumps.

              So the operations must also be brought to a single scale. Bodalovo on Solomon is an offensive within the framework of one island group. Exactly a mixture of the Moscow counter-offensive with the Kerch-Feodosia. A quick offensive in the style of the summer of 1943 or 1944 is already jumping between groups of atolls to Iwo Jima-Okinawa.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 20 October 2020 01: 01
                0
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Well, for the Americans, while the Yamato has not passed under the Golden Gate, everything is fine.

                Yes.

                Few people understand that for the Americans, the Yamato Pass under the Golden Gate, and even the Bismarck under the Brooklyn Bridge, is nothing more than a lost border battle. Dubno-Lutsk-Brody approximately. That is not only not the end, but not even the beginning in fact.

                So this war is seen from there in a different way.
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 19 October 2020 13: 01
          +3
          The Kwantung group was not in Japan, but in Manchukuo. For this significant reason, it could not have anything to do with the defeat of Japan.

          You have correctly noted this, and by the end of the war the composition of this army underwent significant changes, and not for the better, I will not mention Japanese tanks.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 13: 34
            +1
            Quote: Sea Cat
            the composition of this army by the end of the war underwent significant changes, and not for the better, I will not mention Japanese tanks.

            This is certainly true. But describing the combat capability of the KvA, I would still start with an order dated August 14.

            Although, if we leave out the military significance of the operation, the Red Army, of course, is great. The depth of the operation is phenomenal, technically they performed just exemplary.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 19 October 2020 13: 51
              +2
              In fact, this is Blitzkrieg in its purest form, "impetuous Heinz" will get jealous. smile
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 13: 54
                0
                More like Rommel's raids in the desert. But in general, yes, the demonstration performance was skated brilliantly.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 19 October 2020 16: 49
                  0
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  More like Rommel's raids in the desert. But in general, yes, the demonstration performance was skated brilliantly.

                  Not quite - the rears have traditionally pumped up. How many of them were not strengthened in the same 6th Guards. TA, but all the same - after two or three days the brigades shrank to the battalions, after another couple of days the battalions shrank to the mouths. And only the advanced groups of a couple of platoons reached the Chinese cities - the rest sat and waited for fuel.
                  Some of the participants in that operation had a description in their memoirs - how the tankmen had to take control of the whole city with five or six tanks. smile
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 17: 51
                    -3
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Not quite - the rears have traditionally pumped up.

                    Okay, I'll play along.
      4. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 13: 28
        -1
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        So it doesn't smell like any objectivity.

        but from your application
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        If we talk about Japan, then everything was decided by the lightning-fast defeat of the millionth Kwantung group

        smells?
      5. antivirus
        antivirus 19 October 2020 16: 51
        -1
        And then, if we talk about objectivity, then where is the operation "Bagration" in the list, where is the defense of Sevastopol, where, in the end, the encirclement of the Red Army troops near Kiev in 1941 (for the Wehrmacht, this is an undoubted success).

        -WRITTEN AN AMERICAN AND DID NOT REMEMBER EL-ALAMEIN -TUNIS-DUNKERK-RZHEV. ypres, etc.
  2. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 19 October 2020 06: 23
    +7
    In fact, the losses in the Narva offensive operation were an order of magnitude lower.
    I'll clarify that the difference is two orders of magnitude.
  3. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 19 October 2020 06: 56
    +4
    Therefore, we decided to make our review of the successes of EVERY army that took part in that war. Who possessed them, of course.

    The analytical and historical cycle will be called "Victory from the point of view ...". We invite you to rate.

    An interesting project. Especially if the translations are original.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 19 October 2020 14: 13
      +4
      Hello Anton!
      It is really interesting, especially since some comrades here compare Iwo Jima with Midway (with an equal sign), and they themselves are outraged that the British put El Alamein on a par with Stalingrad. But there are men who are actually interesting to read.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 19 October 2020 18: 44
        +2
        Uncle Kostya! Further in PM.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 19 October 2020 19: 00
          +2
          I read it in a personal, and realized that you did not understand me. request
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 19 October 2020 19: 12
            +3
            Yes, I understood everything! That is why I wrote.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 19 October 2020 19: 47
              +3
              In general, it is high time to have a drink, and not to engage in site wisdom. Lyokha and I drank well, it's a pity they washed him into the bath again.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 19 October 2020 19: 52
                +3
                In my opinion, he does not get bored even in the bath.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 19 October 2020 19: 53
                  +2
                  No, melancholy, his dad is heavy, so not very much.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 19 October 2020 19: 59
                    +3
                    I know. Lech is a very strong person, he doesn't show it.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 19 October 2020 20: 03
                      +2
                      No wonder, a military officer, since those times he adores the Chechens with a certain love, and the local chicks too.
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2020 20: 07
                        +4
                        I told about the person, thanks! I did not know.
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 19 October 2020 20: 15
                        +5
                        And he is a really cool guy, I call him and say: "Lyokh, we urgently need to go to Ryazan." Half an hour later, his car slips through our mud and we go to the city. No problem, not right now, it will take an hour. smile
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2020 20: 21
                        +6
                        This is normal. Why else are friends needed?
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 19 October 2020 20: 35
                        +6
                        Anton, I have a kind of a young lady, Nastya the moderator somewhere managed to find a mat and thumped a banana, I answered her in a personal note, but I'm afraid that I will soon be banned, so the connection is through soap. I didn’t argue with her, I was just surprised that the hell of restless and dissatisfied divorces were launched by admins into the male side. The unhappy woman, out of hunger, is trying to find a mat, where he has never been before, and everything turns out according to old Freud.
                        That's it, these got me completely, I endured for a long time, but it burst. "Girl" Nastya got it, the observer of the purity of the Russian language. fool
                        I'm leaving for a well-deserved rest. drinks
                      5. Liam
                        Liam 19 October 2020 20: 42
                        +1
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        I didn’t argue with her, I was just surprised, the hell of restless and dissatisfied divorces are launched by admins into the male side. Unhappy woman trying out of hunger

                        It's not a boy's speech but a husband's ... a real colonel
                      6. Catfish
                        Catfish 19 October 2020 20: 54
                        +3
                        Thank you, Distant friend, I'm just a senior sergeant, but in the SA hierarchy, this itself works, no matter what. May I ask you, did you serve in the army? No, I understand that the Italian army is a special article, but still ...
                    2. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 19 October 2020 20: 43
                      +3
                      Anastasia "Tuman", quite an adequate functionary, within the framework of her duties, enshrined in the contract with "VO Media". But that's all.
                    3. Catfish
                      Catfish 19 October 2020 21: 12
                      +2
                      I am sincerely sorry for her, a functionary and a woman, the concepts are different. request
                  2. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 19 October 2020 20: 43
                    +1
                    Does the ban have a time limit? Can you arrange the farewell with the singing of songs of the appropriate orientation?

                    For example, the
                    "Come on, give me my stone ax ..." (c).
                  3. Catfish
                    Catfish 19 October 2020 21: 10
                    +2
                    Sergei, it's easier for me.
                    Many have already tried to see me off, and what's the point? "There are no others, and those are far away," so "Norfolk Jackie, die your arrogance ..." (c)
                    Here is our Lyokha, Lexus, has been sitting in the bath for a long time, and that, we have a distance between glasses of only twenty kilometers, so no ax is needed, he has a good Skoda and it reaches my village in twenty minutes, especially since At one time, he graduated from the Ryazan Automobile, and then, unlike many, a two-year practice at the training ground under the code designation Chechnya. We have been drinking wine together for a long time. And on bans, and on everything else to both of us, as if it's easier ... I'm afraid an old girl Nastya will fit in again. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
                    And you are a provocateur, Seryozha, but I appreciate it for your sense of humor. hi
                  4. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 19 October 2020 21: 30
                    +2
                    Provocateur. I do not hide it. But why go for provocations?

                    I don't want to get bored, but the classics come to mind:
                    "Learn to rule yourself ..."

                    And euphemisms were not invented for nothing.

                    And virtually it is not so easy to understand a person. And a replica in response to a replica - that's the picture. The main thing, of course, is not to flatter yourself. Reality is deceiving.

                    And so - yes

                    "A liar, a chatterbox and a giggle" (c).

                    For those who are nearby, it is even more difficult live.
                  5. Catfish
                    Catfish 19 October 2020 21: 42
                    +3
                    For those who are nearby, it is even more difficult live.

                    I suppose that no, when you see your eyes, everything is simpler, and the rest ... We have here just claps of Klava, and it's not for nothing that I remembered Alexei and our close communication. Difference. A sense of humor and knowledge of the topic does not always guarantee the pleasantness of communication and understanding of a person when communicating face-to-face.
                    And as for the "provocateur" - I'm just not serious, do not pay attention.
                  6. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 19 October 2020 21: 47
                    +3
                    Sure. The letters on the keyboard are a kind of "cat in a poke".
                    But, if the radio operator with Morse code has his own handwriting, then behind the letters of the person is also slightly visible.

                    If I can tease myself, why can't I be teased?

                    Something is bothering you. And in earnest.
                    Although, of course, I could be wrong.
                  7. Catfish
                    Catfish 19 October 2020 22: 14
                    +3
                    Worried, but not here, and that's just my problem. I could share them here too, but for obvious reasons I won't. And so - yes, there is a stone in the heart. This does not apply to our relationship. Sergei, but as I guessed, I need to know so that I don't get pierced so frankly in the future.
                  8. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 19 October 2020 22: 37
                    +4
                    It will not be possible to determine exactly - anxiety in the lines, which spills out over the "three sigma".

                    To some extent, intuition worked. But regularly she will not be able to determine.

                    There is a quiet sadness, but it happens like Mityaev:

                    "Better sing than howl."

                    I don't know how much I managed to explain what it felt.
                  9. Catfish
                    Catfish 19 October 2020 23: 01
                    +3
                    I wrote in a personal, everything between us.
  • KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 19 October 2020 07: 11
    +4
    Moscow, Stalingrad, Kursk, Belarus, Berlin .... Everything else can be arranged in any order. The shuffle between Anzio and Iwo Jima will not change anything. But thanks to the American for the first importance of Stalingrad.
    1. Kwas
      Kwas 20 October 2020 14: 40
      0
      Berlin, after all, did not decide much. It is fair to include Midway in the top list instead. Precisely by the importance of the result.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 19 October 2020 07: 44
    +4
    8. Battle of Luzon. 1945, Monte Cassino - against the backdrop of the Jassy-Kishinev operation, Bagration and other similar operations of the USSR - this is nothing at all.
    Moreover, objectively, in terms of the number of forces and means, in terms of results and significance.
    1. novel66
      novel66 19 October 2020 12: 50
      0
      Marshal Zhukov launched a counterattack and threw the Germans back with heavy losses.

      There is nothing to comment on.

      but what about the passenger? our shot ...
  • Walking
    Walking 19 October 2020 08: 03
    +4
    Operation Bagration was forgotten in Belarus.
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 19 October 2020 08: 15
    +5
    happened when German and Finnish troops surrounded Leningrad and captured the city.

    In such places, you want to see the original text in order to understand - who exactly is this alternatively gifted - Google translator or the author of the English text.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 13: 12
      -1
      Quote: Aviator_
      In such places I want to see the original text in order to understand -

      and what hinders? There is a link to the original at the end of the post.
      occurred when German and Finnish forces Leningrad and took over the city surrounded.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 19 October 2020 18: 55
        +1
        Thanks for the link. Google has nothing to do with it, convinced.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 18: 57
          -1
          Quote: Aviator_
          Google has nothing to do with

          Yes. Semantics)
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 08: 33
    +7
    I agree with the majority of the speakers (in general, not on the details). Absolutely pop murzilka, where movie cranberries are mixed with political correctness (all progressive people drown for the USSR, in Russia they know little about it).

    The most important battles of the Americans were stupidly missed, both at the TO and in Europe. Most surprising is the absence of Pearl Harbor, but Guadalcanal, which is the central battle in the Pacific (in all works above the kindergarten level), is also missed. As usual, following the Soviet tradition, Stalingrad was overestimated, Moscow was underestimated, the autumn battles of 41, which in fact became the collapse of the blitzkrieg in the East, were not mentioned at all.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 13: 58
      -1
      Quote: Cherry Nine
      Absolutely pop murzilka

      well this is PopMechanics))
      Now, if this klyukovka got out in some supposedly authoritative Nat. Interest ...
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 14: 00
        0
        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        in some supposedly authoritative Nat. Interest ...

        This is a pure national geographer. Children about animals.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 14: 20
          +1
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          Children about animals.

          I personally came here for the sake of comments) The article itself - "shake it up, but not mix it up" - just another magazine recipe for either swill or chewing gum.
          The tag "important" reminded me of a November evening in the Portuguese Sintra - I'm sitting here, warming myself by the fire with a ten-year "graham", and on my TV is some kind of "historian" with wings like Winnie C. and glasses like Larry King, rubs that Henry Wilson, having defeated the Vichy team of Henri Denz at Damur in 1941, deprived the Axis (attention!) Syrian oil....
          Why not an "overriding" victory? laughing
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 14: 27
            0
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            deprived the Axis (attention!) of Syrian oil ...

            And the gas pipeline from Qatar was not allowed to be built.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 16: 43
              -1
              And by the way, in the same logical vector:
              Shtrafgericht and Marita - saving the Duce's ass, like, the Fuhrer postponed Barbarossa for a month. This summer month was just not enough for him to ... etc.
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 19 October 2020 08: 36
    +3
    In a heap somehow everything .. Let's just say: how did the hostilities at Cassino affect the rest of the actions at least on the same Western Front ?. By the way, at Stalingrad, the German divisions that had been transferred from North Africa were ground up ..
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 19 October 2020 08: 45
    +4
    Agree, for an American, just an incomparable knowledge of our history

    "Amazing" for a country with the best universities in the world laughing
  • sevtrash
    sevtrash 19 October 2020 08: 55
    +3
    Vistula - Oder operation, Bagration - according to the results in terms of the defeat of the troops, the progress is more significant. And the European blitzkrieg from the Germans, the defeat of the Western Front near Bialystok-Minsk, Smolensk, South-West near Kiev. And Pearl Harbor is from the Japanese.
  • Olddetractor
    Olddetractor 19 October 2020 10: 10
    0
    On Monte Cassino they were Poles ... and gumiers
    1. Olddetractor
      Olddetractor 19 October 2020 15: 38
      0
      And why minus? There were no Poles there? Or were there no gumiers?
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 17: 07
        0
        Quote: Olddetractor
        There were no Poles there? Or were there no gumiers?

        everyone was there. The 34th American Division lost two-thirds of its strength. Then the dominions pulled up - New Zealanders and Indians. And so, yes, after the fourth assault over the monastery mountain, the uhlans hoisted the Polish flag. True, not for long - I had to change it to British.
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 19 October 2020 10: 26
    +1
    Surprised that I did not find any El Alameins and other North African travels on the list. In the West, these battles are traditionally given great importance.
    I was surprised that the Air Battles in the Kuban 1943 were not mentioned - a very solid damage was for the German aces.
    Logically, the defeat of the Kwantung Army should also be on the list - if the American author lists large-scale and devastating operations ..
    But what about the battle for Königsberg?) Or the Seelow Heights are the same.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 10: 40
      +3
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Surprised that I did not find any El Alameins and other North African travels in the list

      These are the British, and the author hates the British. He BZB, the main battle of WWII, placed below the senseless Luzon.
      Air battles in the Kuban 1943

      There was nothing there.
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Logically, the defeat of the Kwantung Army should also be on the list - if the American author gives large-scale and devastating operations

      The surrender of the Kwantung Army was not a military operation.
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      Seelow heights are the same.

      Berlin is mentioned.
      But what about the battle for Konigsberg

      This strategic appendix didn't matter.
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 19 October 2020 10: 55
        0
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        ... He BZB, the main battle of WWII, placed below the senseless Luzon

        Your shirt is closer to your body ... ©
        And a clear underestimation of the operation "Konrad" in all its variations, when the Panzerwaffe from the first days of January to March 45th were active at the lake. Balaton. Two months of fierce fighting fell out of sight of a man who considers himself a historian.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 11: 20
          -1
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          Its shirt is closer to the body

          It's not about the shirt. For pro-American people, the Philippine events cause, to say the least, annoyance. They tied up American resources and lengthened the war, a huge (for Americans) number of people who died without any sense. An unconditional strategic loss for both sides (yes, this also happens, and quite often). However, the author singled out two places for these events at once, Luzon and Leite.
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          underestimating Operation Conrad in all its variations,

          It had no strategic significance. The main focus was Berlin. From this point of view, the Ardennes, who delayed the American offensive for a couple of months, had a much greater significance for the entire alignment of 45.
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 19 October 2020 11: 29
            0
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            underestimating Operation Conrad in all its variations,

            It had no strategic significance. The main focus was Berlin

            It could be so ... A minor operation on the southern flank, which was intended as a clear attempt to repeat the propaganda effect of the Ardennes operation.
            In this vein, it is possible to consider any operations that did not give an obvious reason for declaring a victory at their end. As the same Rzhevskaya, stretching from in fact from January 42nd to March 43rd.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 11: 41
              +1
              Quote: stalkerwalker
              A minor operation on the southern flank, intended as a clear attempt to replicate the propaganda effect of the Ardennes operation.

              Unfortunately, the effect of the Ardennes was enormous and disastrous for (post-war) Germany. They had enough strength to delay the offensive from the West, but they did not have enough strength to fight back in the East. In fact, Rundstedt and Model founded the GDR in those damn days.
              Quote: stalkerwalker
              As the same Rzhevskaya, stretching from in fact from January 42nd to March 43rd.

              Bloody madness.
              Quote: stalkerwalker
              In this vein, it is possible to consider any operations that did not give an obvious reason for declaring a victory at their end.

              Any operation that does not bring the end of the war closer. Moreover, as you rightly noted, they did not have a decisive result.
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 19 October 2020 11: 50
                0
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                As the same Rzhevskaya, stretching from in fact from January 42nd to March 43rd.

                Bloody madness

                I would venture to suggest that the change in the leadership of the Wehrmacht of the Romanians with the Hungarians to German units from the zone of the Western and Kalinin Fronts near Stalingrad, the history of the battle went differently. And not in favor of the Red Army.
                On the other hand, the infamous Mars operation in this case had a chance of success. And then the laurels of the winners would go to Konev and Purkaev. Not Rokossovsky.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 12: 04
                  0
                  Quote: stalkerwalker
                  I would venture to suggest that the change in the leadership of the Wehrmacht of the Romanians with the Hungarians to German units from the zone of the Western and Kalinin Fronts near Stalingrad, the history of the battle went differently. And not in favor of the Red Army

                  There is a lot you can think of. Not too big a fan of Isaev, but it makes sense to listen to him about Stalingrad on the digital story of the same. The Germans could have done a lot differently, they very much slipped onto the thin one at that time.
                  1. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker 19 October 2020 12: 11
                    0
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    The Germans could have done a lot differently, in many ways they slipped onto a thin one that time

                    The situation with "one battalion", which was literally not enough for the successful completion of a large-scale operation, took place throughout the Second World War.
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Not too big a fan of Isaev, but it makes sense to listen to him about Stalingrad on the digital story of the same.

                    Recently A. Isaev began to be called "Mr. Know-it-all." laughing But his works, not indisputable at certain points, give a very good idea of ​​both the Battle of Stalingrad and other, both significant and not so significant, events that influenced the outcome of the battles and the war as a whole.
                    1. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 13: 28
                      -1
                      Znayka is his longtime LJ nickname.
                      Quote: stalkerwalker
                      The "one battalion" situation

                      I would not underestimate one battalion. Especially if it is 501tb in 42nd year.
                      1. stalkerwalker
                        stalkerwalker 19 October 2020 13: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        I would not underestimate one battalion. Especially if it is 501tb in 42nd year.

                        And that too ...
                        But the words of Konev are remembered more that he literally lacked one battalion to take Rzhev.
                      2. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 13: 48
                        -1
                        Quote: stalkerwalker
                        Konev, that he literally lacked one battalion to take Rzhev.

                        Oh, well, yes.
                        But why does he need Rzhev?
                      3. stalkerwalker
                        stalkerwalker 19 October 2020 13: 59
                        0
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        But why does he need Rzhev?

                        Yes indeed ...
                        Like Efremov, Vyazma was in no way needed. This is probably why he stretched out his small 33rd Army with his gut, intending for a week to calmly go through the gap in the front line.
                      4. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 14: 02
                        -2
                        I do not see any strategic prospects in this direction at that time. I don’t really know.
                      5. stalkerwalker
                        stalkerwalker 19 October 2020 14: 17
                        0
                        The capture of Vyazma and Rzhev in March of the 42nd closed the problem of the Rzhevsky balcony, as failed.
                        Playing alternate history is not in my spirit.
                        But obviously there would not have been that massacre. Forces would have been freed up for the final lifting of the blockade of Leningrad in January 43.
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 20 October 2020 11: 14
              +1
              Quote: stalkerwalker
              Recently A. Isaev began to be called "Mr. Know-it-all."

              The last one? 15 years ago at VIF he was already Sir Znayka. smile
              Proof - a classic description of the dispute between Chobitk and Isaev AKA "Duel between Sir Zampotech and Sir Znayka"from Koshkin.
              https://koshkin-lib.livejournal.com/17102.html
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 20 October 2020 11: 19
                0
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                Recently A. Isaev began to be called "Mr. Know-it-all."

                The last one? 15 years ago at VIF he was already Sir Znayka.

                Alexey!
                hi
                This is a reference to the emotional video from E. Prudnikova, with her response to the video from the u-tube about the organization of the evacuation of the military-industrial complex of the USSR in the fall of 1941. In which she mercilessly inclined Isaev, calling him a Know-it-all ...
              2. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 20 October 2020 15: 03
                +1
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                This is a reference to the emotional video from E. Prudnikova, with her response to the video from the u-tube about the organization of the evacuation of the military-industrial complex of the USSR in the fall of 1941. In which she mercilessly inclined Isaev, calling him a Know-it-all ...

                Well ... Sir Znayka keeps the brand. smile
  • Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 19 October 2020 11: 44
    +1
    It is impossible to separate Seeela from the general Berlin operation
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Avior
    Avior 19 October 2020 14: 41
    0
    In North Africa, I am also surprised that it did not come across.
    Seelow Heights is the Battle of Berlin,
    Kwantung Army - The Japanese army had already surrendered at that time.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 18: 18
      -1
      Quote: Avior
      In North Africa, I am also surprised that it did not come across.

      yes, indeed, strange. Considering that as a result of the Tunisian campaign, a quarter of a million Zoldat went to the Canadian POW camps, and not to the Eastern Front - does this make her one of the "most important"?
      1. Avior
        Avior 19 October 2020 19: 06
        +1
        To draw a conclusion about this, you must first decide what criteria of importance.
        If the loss is one thing, the impact on the course of hostilities is another.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 19 October 2020 10: 47
    +5
    The importance of a battle is determined, in my opinion, not by the number of participants and victims, but by the quality of strategic (and sometimes political) changes in the theater of operations.
    Based on this, my four:
    1. Stalingrad 1942-43
    2. Battle of Britain 1940
    3. El Alamein 1942
    4. Midway 1942
    These, in my opinion, are the most important battles in the four main theaters of military operations, which led to radical changes in the strategic military situation as a whole and for a long time, and even to a change in the political alignments in the world. These are the main "turning point" battles, and the Battle of Stalingrad is the main one among them.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 10: 55
      +1
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      the quality of strategic (and sometimes political) changes in the theater of operations.

      Maybe. But there is a lot of room for speculation.
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      Stalingrad 1942-43

      Why's that? Blitzkrieg stop - autumn-winter 41, takeover of the initiative - Kursk. Blau's collapse is important, but not a turning point.
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      Battle of Britain 1940

      First place. Converting blitzkriegs to war of attrition. The beginning of the end for the Reich.
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      El Alamein 1942

      Which the? If the second, then this is Monty's self-promotion. The first is more important, African Moscow, but there is nothing to be proud of there.
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      Midway 1942

      Randomness. It didn't make much sense, either in case of success or in case of failure.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 19 October 2020 11: 13
        +2
        I voiced my own opinion.
        Stalingrad - because it is a successful attempt to seize the initiative. Kursk is already a similar attempt by the Germans, albeit unsuccessful.
        The battle for Britain is in second place because the basis of Germany's military power was still ground forces, and it was their defeat that determined the defeat in the war.
        El Alamein is, of course, the first time Rommel was stopped. The Germans apparently underestimated the importance of the African theater of operations, but if Rommel broke through to Asia Minor, everything could turn out completely differently. A very important victory for the British.
        Midway was, in my opinion, the key battle in the Pacific Ocean, after which the Americans seized the strategic initiative in this theater of operations and did not let it go again.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 11: 31
          0
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Stalingrad - because it is a successful attempt to seize the initiative

          It is rather strange to consider Blau's failure as an interception. initiatives.
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          it was their defeat that determined the defeat in the war.

          The defeat of Germany in the war was determined by a protracted war on two fronts. In 1918 there was relative order with the ground forces.
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          The Germans apparently underestimated the importance of the African theater of operations, but if Rommel broke through to Asia Minor, everything could turn out completely differently. A very important victory for the British.

          Impossible, no logistics. As in the case of other victories of this type, the attackers stopped because of the crisis in communications. The British, of course, are great (that they did not run away), but there is nothing much to be proud of. Rather a turning point in Africa than a "turning point", but this became evident much later.
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          after which the Americans seized the strategic initiative

          Captured, but these are not related things. Watchtower's start was not tied to the Midway Exodus.
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 19 October 2020 12: 20
            +2
            Somehow your reasoning is incomprehensible to me.
            The disruption of the Blau marked the beginning of another round for the Germans in the struggle for the strategic initiative on the Eastern Front, which they eventually lost. You consider the Battle of Kursk more important, which put an end to this struggle - your right. I believe that Stalingrad is more important.
            Regarding the battle for Britain, the Germans lost to the British both the air and naval war, but their general defeat in the war did not determine this, but the defeat of their ground forces produced by the Soviet Union. The significance of the Battle of Britain is enormous, but nevertheless, in my opinion, it is inferior to the significance of the Battle of Stalingrad and is essential precisely for these reasons.
            Regarding logistics in Africa and Asia Minor, the seizure of Cairo and the Suez Canal would largely solve this problem. The Mediterranean Sea would have passed completely under the control of the Axis, it would have been possible to begin to substantively put pressure on Turkey, the Trans-Iranian Lend-Lease route would have been threatened, and the Middle East oil would have been within reach (then several rich fields were already discovered and developed), and much more ...
            Across Midway. I did not understand what happened to Guadalcanal. The fact that the Americans planned to attack even before this battle is one thing, but the fact that the Japanese no longer planned to do this after it is quite another. After Midway, the Japanese were forced to go over to strategic defense - their striking forces and the best personnel were destroyed, there was no one to replace them, the losses were fatal. Therefore, the battle was a turning point, which determined the strategic positions of the parties and their plans throughout the theater of operations until the end of the war.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 13: 20
              -1
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              The breakdown of the Blau marked the beginning of another round for the Germans in the struggle for the strategic initiative

              If Stalingrad's goal was to disrupt Blau (although I would not say so), then this is definitely not seizing the initiative... Cut out a deep wedge, no more.
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Do you consider the Battle of Kursk more important, which put an end to this struggle - your right

              I consider the summer-autumn of 41 to be more important, when it suddenly became clear that the USSR did not end on the Dnepr-Dvina line, and for some reason was in no hurry to fall apart. Barbarossa was successfully completed, and the Germans had no idea what to do next.

              A little later, the Americans repeated the same story (but in the form of a farce). France instantly passed and everyone stood up.
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              their common defeat in the war was not determined by this, but the defeat of their ground forces by the Soviet Union

              Their defeat was determined by a war on two fronts. Take away England, take away the blockade, take out Africa and put it on November 41st. Yes, even the 42nd.
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              the capture of Cairo and the Suez Canal would largely solve this problem

              Where did the superior British forces, which are on their own bases with the open sea, go? Both sea and land?
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Across Midway. I didn't understand what happened to Guadalcanal

              Despite the fact that the turn to TO was a breakthrough of the defensive perimeter. This is Guadalcanal. The Americans were going to do it without Midway. And sitting on Midway, in the middle of nowhere, the Japanese would not interfere with this even by a millimeter.
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              the best shots were destroyed

              No.
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              strike forces ... were destroyed

              Partially. Below is a quote from a midnake on this matter.
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Therefore, the battle was a turning point, which determined the strategic positions of the parties and their plans throughout the theater of operations until the end of the war.

              The battle is more artistic. "Fatal 5 minutes", that's all. And Rubilov's six months in the jungle is boring. It was a lucky coincidence for the Americans. American plans for the war were completely different. A slow but unstoppable iron tidal wave. Actually, in the 44th year she went, not earlier and not later.
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 19 October 2020 15: 05
                +2
                As for Stalingrad, I would like to note that any war is, first of all, a struggle for the initiative. In 41, the Germans took it firmly and held it until winter. In the winter, ours briefly intercepted it, but a series of defeats near Kharkov, Novgorod, in the Crimea again handed over this initiative to the Germans, who eventually reached the Volga. The victory at Stalingrad returned this initiative to us and, in fact, until the end of the war, we did not miss it. The Battle of Kursk is an attempt by the Germans to regain it.
                And, by the way, the Germans did not fully implement the Barbarossa plan - they did not reach the Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan line, the armed forces of the USSR did not destroy, of the three designated targets (Moscow, Leningrad, Kiev) they managed to capture only one. The battles of the summer of 41 were of great importance for the subsequent war, as well as the 42nd and further up to the 45th. But the turning point in the war came, I believe, precisely at Stalingrad.
                I don’t want to "clean up" something as you suggest. As it was so it was. I do not think that even the occupation of England would greatly help Hitler and could change the result of the war - only to postpone its end for some time. I believe that Britain for the Germans would be like a suitcase without a handle - more energy would be spent on protecting, supplying and maintaining order in it. To carry out genocide among the British, as among the Slavs, Hitler would have become. Churchill would operate from some Halifax, the fleet would be based there and there would be a place for aviation. A war on two fronts would continue. Again, I'm not talking about the Battle of England being of little importance. Huge. But she was inferior to the Battle of Stalingrad. If only because, having lost the Battle of England, the Germans continued to advance in many directions. And after the defeat at Stalingrad, they already thought only about defense.
                With the loss of Cairo, Port Said and Suez, the "superior British forces" in Africa would disappear on their own: supply through the Persian Gulf and the Arabian deserts is troublesome. And the same Churchill said that if the British could not resist at El Alamein, the Germans would have entered Cairo without firing a shot. And given the fact that it was in Egypt that the main bases of the British fleet were located, their capture would have predetermined the evacuation of the fleet itself from this region.
                Well, about Midway, I base my opinion on the books I once read by Churchill, Nimitz and Ruge. They were written a long time ago, so, in general, I fully admit that now many concepts can be revised. I have not been interested in the topic of the war in the Pacific for a long time, have not refreshed my memory. You, apparently, know more subtleties, but the fact is obvious to me that after this battle the Japanese did not undertake major offensive operations, confining themselves to defense, which over time became more and more hopeless due to the total economic superiority of the United States.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 15: 43
                  -3
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  The victory at Stalingrad returned this initiative to us and, in fact, until the end of the war, we did not miss it.

                  In the summer of the 43rd, the USSR was waiting for the strike of the Germans or the Germans were waiting for the strike of the Red Army?
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  an attempt by the Germans to regain her.

                  An attempt to regain the initiative is always an offensive or counteroffensive.
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  A war on two fronts would continue

                  And where is the second?
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  having lost the Battle of England, the Germans continued to advance in many directions

                  In Croatia, or what?
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  the same Churchill said that if the British could not resist at El Alamein, the Germans would have entered Cairo without firing a shot.

                  He said a lot of things. The distance from EA to the canal is the same as from Kharkov to Voronezh. And the distance to the rear (Benghazi) is as from Moscow to East Prussia, with the quality of the roads not at all the best.
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  Well, about Midway, I base my opinion on the books I once read by Churchill, Nimitz and Ruge

                  Memoirism is so specific. The author of memoirs writes about himself first of all. Therefore, the facts may be correct, but assessments and accents are always subjective. It should not be understood that I know WWII better than Churchill and Nimitz, but even to their estimated must be approached carefully. And it will turn out, like Churchill's, that Hitler attacked the USSR in order to spoil the British.
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 19 October 2020 16: 32
                    0
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    In the summer of the 43rd, the USSR was waiting for the strike of the Germans or the Germans were waiting for the strike of the Red Army?

                    The Germans decided not to wait, but to try to seize the initiative. well and
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    An attempt to regain the initiative is always an offensive or counteroffensive.

                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    And where is the second?

                    In Africa, for example. And attempts to return to Britain would most likely be undertaken.
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    In Croatia, or what?

                    How can I tell you ... repeat Maybe Yugoslavia, Greece, the same Crete?
                    Or maybe (now I’ll just say a revelation) - the USSR? smile
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    The distance from EA to the canal is the same as from Kharkov to Voronezh. And the distance to the rear (Benghazi) is as from Moscow to East Prussia, with the quality of the roads not at all the best.

                    Well, up to El Alamein, we reached 1000 km. Another 150 km to Alexandria would somehow also go. And there are supplies and everything you need. Well, then another 200 km to the canal - if without resistance - no question at all. Maybe, of course, Churchill lied that there would be no one to resist, but so far, it seems, no one has accused him of such a lie. smile
                    And about the memoirs - I hope you don’t consider me a fool? I know how to read them. Ruge's book, by the way, is not a memoir, but quite a historical work, it is true, "ancient". But the fact that the assessments of many events (in particular, Midway), made by Nimitz, Churchill and Ruge, are indicative of something, I think.
                    1. Kwas
                      Kwas 20 October 2020 15: 16
                      0
                      Quote: Trilobite Master
                      Well, up to El Alamein, we reached 1000 km. Another 150 km to Alexandria would somehow also go. And there are supplies and everything that is needed. Well, then another 200 km to the canal - if without resistance - no question at all.

                      Perhaps the only item on your list that I fundamentally disagree with.
                      Firstly, two or three battleships run aground in Alexandria are insurmountable for a tank army. Well, only if there is a general and hopeless panic. For the same reason, Konigsberg in 1914 and Leningrad in 1941 could not be taken.
                      Secondly, even taking Egypt, the Germans would not have received significant communications and resources. The dominance of the allies in the Iranian region, based on India, would not have gone anywhere. Marine logistics is much broader than overland logistics, especially with those roads. The Red Sea is a pluggable dead end.
                      The only "but" is if it was possible to provoke Turkey to speak. But in this historical period they had enough intelligence to answer Hitler "Britain still has a lot of islands, but you don't have a second" Bismarck ".
              2. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 20 October 2020 12: 12
                0
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                The battle is more artistic. "Fatal 5 minutes", that's all. And Rubilov's six months in the jungle is boring. It was a lucky coincidence for the Americans. American plans for the war were completely different. A slow but unstoppable iron tidal wave. Actually, in the 44th year she went, not earlier and not later.

                That is, Midway was a kind of bonus for the Americans from the series: "It's good that everything happened this way, but if the outcome had been different, nothing would have changed fundamentally".
                Yes, from the point of view of our reality, this is indeed a battle that influenced the course of the entire subsequent Pacific campaign. But even if the Americans had lost it, the only difference would have been the later start of Guadalcanal (the Yankees are unlikely to climb the Perimeter without superiority or even equality in forces at sea) and the offensive on TO in general - the Americans would have to wait for combat readiness 6-7 "Essex".
                Industry and preparation were critical to the outcome of the Pacific campaign. And in this the United States by 1943 outnumbered its opponents.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 20 October 2020 13: 06
                  0
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  But even if the Americans lost it, the only difference would be the later start of Guadalcanal

                  Uh-huh. On the other hand, the events in the South, as far as I know, were never linked to the results of Midway, and the remaining AVs did not play any role. By the way, the Japanese, by the way, meanwhile knocked out the remaining AB, but, again, to no avail.
                  1. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 20 October 2020 14: 39
                    0
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Uh-huh. On the other hand, events in the South, as far as I know, have never been linked to the outcome of Midway.

                    Not everything is so simple. The transfer of 1 DMR to the south was indeed planned before Midway: On April 10, 1942, King warned Holcomb that in May this division would presumably be redeployed to Wellington (at the time of the appeal, 1 DMR was part of the amphibious forces of the Atlantic Fleet).
                    But at that time there was no talk of any planning of active actions in the near future. Offensive operations were considered possible, but the main task of the 1st DMP was the defense of the "American Perimeter" - key points such as New Caledonia and the New Hebrides, and the bases created on them. The offensive was possible, but in the future. In the meantime, the division had to prop up the previously deployed Marine Defense Battalions in the area - until the arrival of the garrison troops.
                    And then two key events happened:
                    1. Aerial reconnaissance discovered that the Japanese were building an airfield on Guadalcanal. This determined the location of the first possible offensive operation.
                    2. Midway. It was after him that the OKNSH revised the strategy for the maintenance of the theater.
                    Prior to this, the basic principles of this strategy were that the theater of operations was a secondary theater in comparison with the ETVD, and therefore no offensive ground operations in the theater of operations were envisaged until the end of 1942. The only operations permitted were operations. aimed at protecting communications with Australia and creating forward bases for future offensives.
                    After Midway, on June 25, 1942, King notified Nimitz that the OKNSh ordered an attack on the Solomon Islands (the goal is the occupation of the islands of Santa Cruz, Tulagi, and in general the southern part of the island group), and the operation was scheduled for August 1, 1942.
                    And on the military side, MacArthur was also sharply excited right after Midway, saying "give me a Marine division and two aircraft carriers - and I'll take Rabaul!". smile
                    1. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine 20 October 2020 15: 30
                      0
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      Midway. It was after him that the OKNSH revised the strategy for the maintenance of the theater.

                      Well, OK, let's take note. I go deeper.
      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 11: 33
        -1
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        Battle of Britain 1940

        First place.


        I would venture to take the point of view of the British:
        1. Battle of the Atlantic + Battle of Britain
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 12: 00
          -2
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          I would venture to take the point of view of the British:

          )))
    2. Avior
      Avior 19 October 2020 14: 47
      -1
      IMHO The Battle of Britain was the most fundamental turn of the Second World War, after which the story changed.
      Stalingrad is a grand battle in terms of intensity and scale, but even if our people lost, the Germans would not have won the war.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 19 October 2020 15: 17
        0
        Quote: Avior
        if ours had lost, the Germans would not have won the war anyway.

        They would not have won it anyway, even if they had occupied England. Above, I spoke about this. It’s just that the battle that turned the tide of the war would have happened later and possibly in a different place.
        1. Avior
          Avior 19 October 2020 15: 24
          -1
          The course of the war would have gone radically differently.
          Stalingrad, for all its scale, did not carry such consequences. In this case, you can definitely apply your last sentence. Nothing fundamentally changed in the course of the war, simply mixed in time.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Gvardeetz77
    Gvardeetz77 19 October 2020 11: 26
    +2
    Not without controversial points, but thanks to the American (not even the first place is not the conditional landing in Normandy), others in his place would have placed battles on the Eastern Front closer to the end of the second twenty. However, most of the compilers from our side (judging by the comments) would only have a rating based on the Red Army-Wehrmacht confrontation.
  • Timofey Charuta
    Timofey Charuta 19 October 2020 11: 28
    +2
    Why did the Japanese have only defeats in rating - because the rating was made by the invincible Americans?

    As for me, Pearl Harbor is a handsome man (unless, of course, this is an elementary setup by Roosevelt ... but it looks like it). And the consequences are not bad - the seizure of the strategic initiative for half a year ...
    Another beauty is the capture of Singapore by the Japs.
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 19 October 2020 12: 03
      +2
      I never liked alternatives, but I always had the seditious thought that Pearl Harbor was not needed by the Japanese at all. Without him, the amers would have no reason (primarily political and moral) to sit still. Perhaps we would have seen the rush of the fleet towards the Philippines and the Great Battle in the first year of the war. In which the Japanese would have all the advantages. Accordingly, the damage to the Yankees would have been many times greater. And the history of the naval war in general is even more dramatic.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 12: 59
        +1
        Quote: Engineer
        attended the seditious thought that Pearl Harbor was not needed by the Japanese at all

        ))
        This is a well-known alt-positive for the Japanese. And okay, another battle of battleships (which the Yankees are probably losing in a splash), but in general the Japanese bypassing the Philippines and maintaining neutrality is already serious.

        If, in addition to AI, we also sin with conspiracy, then it’s not wretched fantasies about “Roosevelt hid AB” but “Yamamoto Japanese Canaris” - this fits perfectly. Both PX, who allowed America to enter the war with minimal casualties, and Midway, who actually ended the war for the IDN - this is Yamamoto, he alone pushed these adventures.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 19 October 2020 13: 13
          +2
          This is a well-known alt-positive for the Japanese. And okay, another battle of battleships (which the Yankees are probably losing in a splash), but in general the Japanese bypassing the Philippines and maintaining neutrality is already serious.

          My inner alternate died without being born.
          There is more positive, but the end is exactly the same. Even in time, it is practically the same. If only the Yapas fail to inflict a heavy defeat on the aircraft carriers. Then plus six months of the war. Maybe more.
          I do not believe in the preservation of neutrality by the Americans in the event that the Yaps do not attack the PH and the Philippines.
          And so yes, PX, oddly enough, minimized the loss of states and allowed the United States to win not without some grace. Treacherous Strike, Incredible Midway, Overcome on Guadalcanal. Mobilizing the nation. Victories with a catastrophic loss ratio for the enemy.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 13: 47
            +2
            Quote: Engineer
            the end is exactly the same

            Without a war with the USA !?
            Quote: Engineer
            so yes, PX, oddly enough, minimized the loss of states and allowed the United States to win not without some grace

            Yes.
            Quote: Engineer
            Treacherous Strike, Incredible Midway, Overcome on Guadalcanal. Mobilizing the nation

            Yeah. The American WWII is the most cinematic. The dramaturgy of the course of the war, beautiful, epic battles, where you can show close-ups of the main characters. A clear and unambiguous victory at a very reasonable price.

            Perhaps the beauty of this myth hindered the study of history for a long time. He was too good.
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 19 October 2020 13: 55
              0
              Without a war with the USA !?

              With her. Where without her.
              I wrote
              I do not believe in the preservation of neutrality by the amers in the event of the non-aggression of the Yap on PX and the Philippines

              In general, I do not consider this even hypothetically.
              Perhaps the beauty of this myth hindered the study of history for a long time. He was too good.

              The American myth of all the myths of the victorious countries was as close to reality as possible. As far as possible for a myth in general. All countries had myths about war. It was inevitable. Naturally, I would say.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 13: 58
                0
                Quote: Engineer
                The American myth of all the myths of the victorious countries was as close to reality as possible

                Schaz you tease me. Again I will come with a trump card about the greatest betrayal in history and the defeat of WWII democracies.
                Quote: Engineer
                I don't even consider this hypothetically at all

                Well, if the war between Japan and the United States remains, then the outcome is indeed a little predictable.
                1. Engineer
                  Engineer 19 October 2020 14: 10
                  0
                  Schaz you tease me. Again I will come with a trump card about the greatest betrayal in history and the defeat of WWII democracies.

                  You are like Barcelona. The same schemes and accents. While you are lazy to change something, all and sundry have already learned to play with you))
                  And so, there is a military aspect, there is a political one.
                  The military aspect is known to everyone. In the war at sea, they creak, but surpassed all. They had no disasters on land. Generally. Is that the Philippines and then with a stretch. For everything is known in comparison am
                  It is not the United States' fault that the Germans zhahnuli in the Ardennes. And before that, they rested to death in the Hürtgen forest.
                  On the other hand, well, they would have captured the whole of Germany, and not 2/3. Little things are everything.
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 14: 26
                    0
                    Quote: Engineer
                    While you are too lazy to change something, all and sundry have already learned to play with you))

                    )))
                    Bavaria is one.
                    Quote: Engineer
                    It is not the United States' fault that the Germans zhahnuli in the Ardennes. And before that, they rested to death in the Hürtgen forest

                    And the Ardennes, and the forest, and - most importantly - the Scheldt were mistakes of the SES. Errors are not only not learned, but not even recognized.
                    Quote: Engineer
                    well, they would have captured the whole of Germany, not 2/3. Little things are everything.

                    The GDR is far from all the problems that were delighted between Munich and Korea, you know.
                    Quote: Engineer
                    And so, there is a military aspect, there is a political

                    War is part of politics. So the military aspect, as you put it, is in the background.
                    1. Engineer
                      Engineer 19 October 2020 14: 41
                      0
                      Bavaria is one.

                      Fixation on two favorite themes threatens the final transformation into a withered figure
                      The Ardennes, and the forest, and - most importantly - the Scheldt were mistakes of the SES. Errors are not only not learned, but not even recognized.

                      Errors as errors. Not the most monstrous. And a fan of the British should say B and remember what kind of freak in a beret he had a hand in all this.
                      War is part of politics. So the military aspect, as you put it, is in the background.

                      And politics is part of the war. Communication is two-way. The more weighty the success on the battlefield, the more weighty the arguments at the table. People often ignore the possibility of the primacy of military power in building political relations. And yet Napoleon demonstrated this.
                      6 tank armies of the USSR inevitably made him a subject of politics. A very serious such subject. And until this sword was knocked out, nothing could prevent this.
                      1. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 15: 03
                        0
                        Quote: Engineer
                        final transformation into a darkened figure

                        Have you taken to punchy again?
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Errors as errors. Not the most monstrous

                        This is how to look.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        And a fan of the British should say B and remember what kind of freak in a beret he had a hand in all this.

                        And who should have shot him in time?

                        You won't catch me on Monty. This is one of the main mistakes of Aiki. Monty is one of those commanders who need to be given a separate theater of operations, otherwise they will be extremely successful in fighting their neighbors. Rommel was the same. Exchanging it for Alexander was discussed and was absolutely the right decision.

                        Monty 1. Didn't take Kahn. 2. Falaise did not close 3. Stopped Patton at Metz, taking over all supplies 4. Did not close the Ardennes.

                        Quote: Engineer
                        6 tank armies of the USSR inevitably made him a subject of politics. A very serious such subject.

                        Do not make me laugh. This stuff is more than a solvable issue.
                      2. Engineer
                        Engineer 19 October 2020 15: 13
                        0
                        Have you taken to punchy again?

                        No. Simply no
                        You won't catch me on Monty. This is one of the main mistakes of Aiki.

                        Yes, it’s time for me to learn the fundamental role of this imp Ike in your version of history.
                        There are three whales, not two
                        Do not make me laugh. This stuff is more than a solvable issue.

                        I remember that the degree of your affectation should not be exaggerated)
                      3. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 15: 22
                        0
                        Quote: Engineer
                        There are three whales, not two

                        Not understood. Have you counted the best battleship of WWII?
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Yes, it’s time for me to learn the fundamental role of this imp Ike in your version of history.

                        Sorry, there is a word "commander-in-chief". I understand it literally. And especially in the case of the Americans.
                      4. Engineer
                        Engineer 19 October 2020 15: 42
                        0
                        Not understood. Have you counted the best battleship of WWII?

                        Of course not. This battleship, like the supermegaultraSpit, were distant guiding stars, symbols of the reasonable, kind and eternal.
                        But the result of WWII, as everyone knows, was the catastrophe of Western democracies. And the whales who retained this result were completely different.
                        1. President is a traitor to the interests of the American people
                        2. A clown in uniform who left his post when the commies were 15 minutes away from his native Texas.
                        3. A degenerate, corrupt nation that failed in armaments, failed all pre-war programs and overwhelmed the enemy with heaps of 1940-level iron.
                      5. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 15: 58
                        0
                        Okay, but got it wrong.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        traitor to the interests of the American people

                        Perhaps yes. He also fell into insanity at the most inopportune moment. It would be six months earlier, six months later.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        A clown in uniform who left his post when the commies were 15 minutes away from his native Texas.

                        Kansas. He was born in Texas, yes, but Kansas was his hometown. Not airplanes, but MRBMs.
                        And yes, Cuba is closer than Nalchik, the R-14 is more dangerous than the Pe-8, and he gave both to the Soviets - Aiki, he is alone.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        A degenerate, corrupt nation that failed in armaments, failed all pre-war programs and filled the enemy with heaps of 1940-level iron.

                        Here you are also right, with the exception that I have never called the American people either particularly corrupt or even more degenerate. On the contrary, I wrote that a great nation was able (militarily) to win even in such circumstances.
  • Kwas
    Kwas 20 October 2020 15: 24
    0
    Quote: Engineer
    My inner alternate died without being born.

    And my little one is alive! For a long time now I want to sprinkle an article on how the Japanese could win, and in several ways, but all once and once ...
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 21 October 2020 11: 13
      0
      Write.
      If there is no time for an article, then a lengthy comment will do.
      We'll be happy though it's okay
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 19 October 2020 17: 51
    0
    Quote: Engineer
    Perhaps we would have seen the rush of the fleet towards the Philippines and the Great Battle in the first year of the war.

    Nope. All the pre-war plans of the USN (which he tried to follow as much as possible throughout the war) provided that the offensive on Japan (by jumping over the atolls) would begin only after achieving superiority over the Japanese fleet and the readiness of the marines. Up to this point, the fleet has been limited to AB raids on minor defensive nodes of the Japanese defense and unlimited submarine warfare.
    So, at least until the second half of 1942, no one goes anywhere - because the 1st DMP is slowly and painfully reformed from a brigade to a division and is trying to knock out weapons from the industry.
    The sailors wrote clearly and unambiguously about the Asian fleet and the Philippines - no reinforcements were foreseen.
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 19 October 2020 18: 42
      0
      I know that all.
      It's just one thing to follow the plans when you have a fig leaf for formal protection - "disaster in PX".
      And the other is to sit in the rear, having a formal superiority in forces. Politicians may not appreciate this strategy. Perhaps Kuantan was waiting for the amers on steroids. The proverbial is possible
      PS MacArthur would probably make a show about the heroic guys of Bataan and the cowardly fleet. The scribes would hurry up. The whole country would demand a battle
      And the history of the 1st division is practically an anecdote. Clear evidence of the preparation of the imperialist predator for the struggle for the redistribution of spheres of influence.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 20 October 2020 10: 29
        0
        Quote: Engineer
        It's just one thing to follow the plans when you have a fig leaf for formal protection - "disaster in PX".
        And the other is to sit in the rear, having a formal superiority in forces. Politicians may not appreciate this strategy.

        Politically active politicians in a territory where there are no voters do not care deeply. How many voters are there in the Philippines? wink
        Quote: Alexey RA
        for the Americans until the "Yamato" under the Golden Gate has not passed - everything is fine.

        Quote: Engineer
        PS MacArthur would probably make a show about the heroic guys of Bataan and the cowardly fleet. The scribes would hurry up. The whole country would demand a battle

        MacArthur in the Philippines had a stigma in such a gun that it was not for him to roll a barrel into the fleet.
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 19 October 2020 11: 29
    +3
    Especially if you remember that Churchill in January 1945 very much asked Stalin to speed up the offensive operations of the Red Army - then it does not look very victorious at all.

    Churchill in January 1945 asked Stalin to finally begin to exchange information on action plans in order to coordinate the Allied efforts on land. Moreover, he asked this personally only because the representative of the allied command, Tedder, sent to the USSR, was stuck in Cairo.
    It would be strange to ask for help at a time when the German offensive had already been stopped ten days ago, and the Allies were advancing on the Ardennes Wedge from the flanks.
    A serious blow to the Japanese fleet, but not Stalingrad or Prokhorovka. A glorious and far-reaching victory for the American Navy.

    Continental thinking at its finest. smile Translated into land standards, the Japanese lost four tank armies at Midway. Americans - one.
    It was the loss of AB 1 and 2 DAV that had a decisive impact on the course of the war: the IJN was no longer able to restore its carrier power.
    The defeat at Midway really was a disaster for Japan. But not because of the catastrophic losses of the flight crew. They were indeed serious in both quantity and quality, but in reality they were even less than the amount of losses during the raid on Pearl Harbor and the battles in the Coral Sea. However, the pilots of the "first line", that is, having completed a full three-year training course, the Japanese still had enough. But there weren’t enough aircraft carriers anymore ... And - what’s even worse - there was no idea: if at that time 3 squadron and 9 light aircraft carriers were being built at American shipyards, then only 1 squadron, 1 light and 1 reconstructed from a passenger ship at Japanese shipyards liner, which could not compensate for the loss of 4 squadron aircraft carriers. As a result, the Japanese fleet lost the ability to "project power" with massive support from the air, and with it the strategic initiative. Now the Japanese could only react to the enemy’s actions, and those remnants of the Empire’s air sword, which couldn’t find a place on the decks of the few remaining aircraft carriers, ended up on the coast airfields and were pulled into the months-long meat grinder in the sky of Guadalcanal, finally grinding the Imperial Navy personnel aircraft. Blitzkrieg was stopped, the war of attrition began. A war in which Japan already had no chance of victory.
    © midnike
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 11: 58
      +2
      Quote: Alexey RA
      It was the loss of AV 1 and 2 DAV that had a decisive influence on the course of the war:

      Yes, Midnike writes this a lot. True, he does not write that during the hunt for turkeys there were 5 AB + the same amount of coastal aviation, but this somehow did not really help.
      Quote: Alexey RA
      It would be strange to ask for help at a time when the German offensive has already been stopped ten days ago.

      )))
      In the Soviet tradition, Vinnie is an ardent anti-Soviet (which is not far from the truth). This means that he categorically did not want to see the Red Army closer to Britain (and this is putting it mildly). So both such a request for help and the help of the Soviet side itself look strange.

      But the situation when our rescued these worthless allies - it's so delicious, so sweet. It is impossible to resist.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 19 October 2020 12: 38
        +3
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        Yes, Midnike writes this a lot. True, he does not write that during the hunt for turkeys there were 5 AB + the same amount of coastal aviation, but this somehow did not really help.

        So this is June 1944, when it was too late to take chances.
        1 and 2 DAV, stay their AB alive, they could decide something until the second half of 1943. And the middle of 1944 is all, finish:
        TF58.1: 2 Essex, 2 Independence.
        TF58.2: 2 Essex, 2 Independence.
        TF58.3: 2 Essex, 2 Independence.
        TF58.4: 1 Essex, 2 Independence.
        In general, the Yankees rolled out 5 Essexes against 7 Japanese large ABs, and 4 Independences against 8 Japanese small ABs. Karina Repina "Swam" - especially considering the large air groups of American AB. smile
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        But the situation when our people rescued these worthless allies is so tasty, so sweet. It is impossible to resist.

        This is not the only point. "An early attack to save the Allies"- this is the political statement of the IVS in negotiations with the Allies to obtain additional preferences in the course of the division of Europe. Well, then the military history was promptly adjusted to the policy - because at first there were no people who wanted to refute the IVS, and then there were no people who wanted to refute the marshals and generals, in the memoirs which this version was confirmed. smile
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 12: 52
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          could decide something until the second half of 1943

          Where?
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Karina Repina "Swam"

          This is still divine. The Americans haven't finished yet.

          Quote: Alexey RA
          political statement of the IVS in negotiations with the Allies to obtain additional preferences during the partition of Europe

          Yes. But few people know about it.

          Actually, quite a few statements of the IVS have somehow lost their relevance. They were not exactly refuted, they were just somehow lost. But not that. This is pure historical sensuality.
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 19 October 2020 17: 45
            0
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Where?

            Hmmm ... good question.
            Firstly, if TF.16 managed to escape (SBD attacked, but could only damage the decks of three Japanese ABs), then the Japanese will have to conduct the "second general battle AB" - Midway # 2.
            Secondly, it is still possible to finally resolve the issue with New Guinea - Coral Sea No. 2.

            But in general, yes - if the Americans go into deep defensiveness before the launch of the Essexes, then it is simply unrealistic to do something with them. They simply do not have critical points (an attack on which could cause political consequences), which either would not be covered or would be within the radius of Kido Butai. Perhaps the second time to climb Pearl Harbor ... or to stage a suicide raid on the Panama Canal. smile So the survivors of the 1st and 2nd DAV for Japan are only a means to sell their lives more expensively.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 17: 48
              0
              I don't even see the possibility of canceling Guadalcanal. Who could - flew from Rabaul.
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 19 October 2020 18: 11
                +1
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                I don't even see the possibility of canceling Guadalcanal. Who could - flew from Rabaul.

                Far away. And the isolation of the island from Rabaul will fail.
                In the presence of 1 and 2 DAV, it is possible with superior forces to sweep out the enemy's AW from the theater of operations, isolate the island and take out the "Cactus" on a short shoulder with the same superior forces. That's it - the Yankee has yok supplies, the Air Force has yok. The army can safely unload ammunition and heavy weapons, and the fleet can support the army from the sea with the same CMT. Without fear of raids.
                In the meantime, while the army is dealing with the Marines, the fleet can visit the Yankee rear bases in the area.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 19 October 2020 18: 51
                  0
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Far away

                  Yes.
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  In the presence of 1 and 2 DAV, it is possible with superior forces to sweep the enemy's AW from the theater of operations, isolate the island

                  This Midway needs to be won in the trash at all, even without damage. Real cranes somehow didn't play much.
  • Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 19 October 2020 11: 37
    +1
    Well, let's say so, a C grade ... and again these myths about the general frost and thousands of burned tanks in Berlin ... again the battle at Brody, and there, under those conditions, alas, there could not be any other result,
    1. Timofey Charuta
      Timofey Charuta 19 October 2020 12: 06
      +1
      In his memoirs, Konev named a smaller figure:
      "... During the Berlin operation, the Nazis managed to destroy and knock out more than eight hundred of our tanks and self-propelled guns. Moreover, the bulk of these losses fell on battles in the city itself ..."
      http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/konev_is2/text.html#t4 - глава 26 апреля. Судя по всему американец брал немецкие данные. Истина, как всегда, где-то посередине...
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 12: 00
    +2
    Especially if you remember that Churchill in January 1945 very much asked Stalin to speed up the offensive operations of the Red Army

    It is a pity that such a respected author (no sarcasm) allows himself such a pop passage.
    I really hope that the announced
    Analytical and historical cycle
    will demonstrate an attempt at objectivity. Although...
    I consider the proposed name of the cycle to be rather speculative. As expected, the point of view "we won, but one got stuck" will win (judging by the mood of the VO audience and the tone of comments)
    Anyway, I consider it absurd and the apotheosis of subjectivism to compile ratings like this one.
    1. Fitter65
      Fitter65 19 October 2020 12: 20
      0
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      The expected point of view will win, "we won, but one did not adhere"

      Well, after all, not everything can be bought, so the bulk of the VO audience thinks that we were not the one to stick ... hi
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 19 October 2020 12: 17
    0
    ... more than a hundred "Flying Fortresses" I-17 ...
    And I used to think that B-17 Flying Fortress (B-17 "Flying Fortress") turns out to be I-17 .. laughing While
    German and Finnish troops surrounded Leningrad and captured the city.
    You shouldn't pay attention to the I-17.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 12: 26
      +1
      Quote: Fitter65
      more than a hundred "Flying Fortresses" I-17 ...
      And I used to think that B-17 Flying Fortress (B-17 "Flying Fortress") turns out to be I-17 ..

      this is a translator's blunder. In the text, of course,
      by more than a hundred B-17 Flying Fortresses
      1. Fitter65
        Fitter65 20 October 2020 16: 47
        0
        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        this is a translator's blunder. In the text, of course,
        by more than a hundred B-17 Flying Fortresses

        Well, why such a translator who cannot translate letters correctly ...
  • prior
    prior 19 October 2020 12: 57
    0
    What is the most important part of your mother's body?

    An attempt to assess the significance of individual operations of the Second World War looks exactly the same.
    There is such - divide and conquer.
    So this is a real attempt to divide: Pearl Narbor is important, and Operation Bagration is so-so.
    Sly bastard this David Hambling with his attempts to evaluate, I think so.
  • Ulrih
    Ulrih 19 October 2020 14: 12
    -1
    The author seems to be praising the American (by the way, what is remarkable that his article should be taken up for discussion? WWII specialist?), But at the same time he cannot get rid of snobbery himself. For example, about Narva - unfortunately, the current young generation, instead of studying the issue, look at Google, and for them it is just a note that Narva in the Northern War is a little different than Narva in WWII. Also D Day, etc. - they played a role in the defeat of Germany, Japan, etc. Of course, you can beat yourself in the chest, which Councils are great and what they could handle themselves, but how would this affect the overall losses? Or do not care that the already huge losses would have been even greater, women still give birth?
    And in few places I saw politics in assessing battles ...
    Py.Sy. By the way, for the first time I see that Battle of Bulge is translated as Battle of Belgium. This battle is usually called the Ardennes Offensive.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 14: 37
      -1
      Quote: Ulrih
      Py.Sy. By the way, for the first time I see that Battle of Bulge is translated as Battle of Belgium. This battle is usually called the Ardennes Offensive.

      "Battle of the ledge" more often)
      1. Ulrih
        Ulrih 19 October 2020 14: 48
        -1
        Hmm, I've never heard such a name in Russian. Perhaps I read it in the wrong place ... But the Battle of Belgium is definitely too much :)
  • Force multiplier
    Force multiplier 19 October 2020 15: 09
    +1
    The original article is too "popular", as the name of the magazine where it was published honestly warns. Two-thirds of the list is just a random sample of WWII battles. Luzon was especially amused by the "Battle of Britain", an invention of British propaganda, which had no place in reality.
    From the battles of the Soviet-German front, the absence of the key Smolensk battle of 1941 is striking.It is comparable in value to Stalingrad.
    In the West and Far East there are no less key strategic air offensives on Germany / Japan
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 15: 31
      0
      Quote: Force Multiplier
      and the "Battle of Britain", which had no place in reality, was an invention of British propaganda.

      Based on this logic, there was no Battle of the Atlantic either?
      1. Force multiplier
        Force multiplier 19 October 2020 16: 07
        0
        In the form in which it is traditionally presented, it was not. German submarines (at least 300, at least 1000) a priori could not win supremacy at sea, and the fight against them was not a "battle for the Atlantic". Accordingly, the date of the end of the real battle for the Atlantic is May 27, 1941. Loss of Bismarck
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 16: 23
          +1
          Clear. There was nothing. This is all British agitprop.
          1. Force multiplier
            Force multiplier 19 October 2020 19: 25
            +1
            Namely, agitprop. It is hard to imagine that he is in the country where the novel "1984" was written.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 22: 06
              -1
              Convinced. So .. Cross out the useless dives in the Atlantic and the airshow over the Canal.
              What's next on the list?
              1. Force multiplier
                Force multiplier 19 October 2020 23: 34
                +1
                What is the essence of your objections and their reasoning? What list?
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 19 October 2020 17: 01
          +1
          Quote: Force Multiplier
          In the form in which it is traditionally presented, it was not. German submarines (at least 300, at least 1000) a priori could not win supremacy at sea, and the fight against them was not a "battle for the Atlantic".

          And the PL does not need to win dominance. They need to make sure that the loss of trade tonnage exceeds its replacement. After which the island nation slowly dies. And if you do not fight the SP or fight under the motto "too little too late"- then the PL has every chance of winning.
          This man was able to in unlimited submarine warfare:

          If the Allies had not spent so much effort fighting submarines in the Atlantic, they would have succeeded, damn it, with the same landing operations, for which they had to drag everything from the other side of the Atlantic.
          1. Force multiplier
            Force multiplier 19 October 2020 19: 13
            +1
            The functioning of communications (as well as the violation of enemy communications) is precisely achieved only and solely through the conquest of dominance at sea. Japanese communications paralyzed not the submarine, but the American supremacy at sea, which allowed the American submariners to operate successfully. And on the contrary, when the enemy controls the sea, no serious successes are possible on enemy lines of communication.

            Sinking "tonnage" (in practice, this often meant actions in remote areas of the world's oceans, far from vital communications, attacks on neutral ships, etc.) is an imitation of the struggle for dominance at sea. Losses cannot exceed replenishment (including due to neutrals and the purchase of ships in other countries), if the state is not in a blockade. And Britain was not in blockade. Because her fleet provided supremacy at sea. The correct statement of the problem would be a violation of communications. Only such a task was impossible for the German submarines, and Doenitz knew it perfectly (hence the war against tonnage, and "if only there were 300 boats in 1939")

            Torch succeeded quite well until the official "victory" in the Battle of the Atlantic during the period of almost peak successes of the German planes (as well as the transportation of American and Canadian troops and ground personnel of the 8th VA to Britain)
  • boris epstein
    boris epstein 19 October 2020 16: 35
    +1
    The battle at Lake Balaton is not mentioned.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 19 October 2020 18: 01
    +3
    "David Hempling from Popular Mechanics can just as easily refer to the magazine:" Murzilka "there will also be great" connoisseurs of history ".
    Roman, don't you think Popular Mechanics is NOT SERIOUS?
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 19 October 2020 22: 51
      +4
      with equal success one can refer to the magazine: "Murzilka" there will also be great "experts in history".

      Don't dare to touch our "Murzilka" with your dirty paws, gnaw your bourgeois "Playboy", and leave us our happy childhood! Liberast-reptilians-trilobites-russophobes. laughing
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 20 October 2020 00: 36
        +2
        I preferred the magazine "Funny Pictures"!
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 20 October 2020 00: 50
          +4
          So do I. wink
          A very funny picture.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 20 October 2020 04: 21
            +4
            I always believed that it was necessary to take care of the ears.

            It was not for nothing that the ears and tails of the fighting dogs were docked.
          2. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 20 October 2020 08: 57
            +2
            Konstantin, I envy: you have a whole collection of various pictures
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 20 October 2020 18: 12
              +3
              I don’t have a collection, Vera, I went online, found something suitable and posted it, it’s fast.
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. Phil77
            Phil77 20 October 2020 16: 19
            +3
            Quote: Sea Cat
            A very funny picture.

            And if so? wink
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 20 October 2020 18: 29
              +3
              But there is no need to breed BDSM here, here are family people. laughing
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 20 October 2020 18: 37
                +1
                Quote: Sea Cat
                BDSM

                Constantine! Amigo! Did you really think that * the femme fatale * from the board of an * American * is * of * those * ??????? lol
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 20 October 2020 18: 52
                  +3
                  The whip and the underwear are cast. request
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 19 October 2020 18: 13
    +5
    Colleagues, 1) I am glad that I am with you again.
    2) Hempling, for a third-rate publication, I doubt that this magazine is authoritative, even knows the history quite well
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 19 October 2020 22: 34
      +4
      Colleagues, 1) I am glad that I am with you again.

      What happened, where is Mom? Seriously, why just a corporal? Vera and I were friends, please explain. smile hi
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 20 October 2020 09: 14
        +4
        Good morning. This is me.
        Why junior sergeant? My tablet fell from the third floor, and there were passwords and that's it. They gave me a new phone so that I would not cry, but I could not enter the site. I tried all the recovery options, but without success. And then she freaked out and created a new address. ITSELF.

        Р
        S
        When I was little, my mother used to say: "You are my joy," and in 99% of us, the closest person is our mother
        P
        D
        Regarding the junior sergeant, I hope to become an officer soon, with your help.
        1. Kwas
          Kwas 20 October 2020 15: 41
          +2
          Ay-ay-ay, my condolences!
          Quote: Astra wild2
          My tablet fell from the third floor, and there were passwords and that's it.
          ... and a modest contribution to the holy cause of rating restoration!
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 20 October 2020 19: 58
            +2
            Thank you for your condolences
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 20 October 2020 16: 12
          +3
          Quote: Astra wild2
          Regarding the junior sergeant, I hope to become an officer soon, with your help

          Vera, Vera, Vera! Eck, you are not careful! bully
          Okay, let's make an officer, according to the Brazilian system! wassat
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 20 October 2020 19: 01
            +2
            "Whoever buys a pack of tickets will receive a water pump!" In all my life I won five rubles in total, but to win a car or a TV set .... It was only Semyon Semyonich who was so lucky.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 20 October 2020 19: 05
              +3
              Quote: vladcub
              Whoever buys a pack of tickets will receive a water pump! "

              Will take.
          2. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 20 October 2020 20: 12
            +3
            Sergei, have you ever had to move furniture or chill out anything? In this case, I envy. On the balcony I was pulling on a clothesline and ...
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 20 October 2020 20: 45
              +2
              Quote: Astra wild2
              On the balcony I was pulling on a clothesline and ...

              Why? Of course I did it, it wasn’t my wife’s to do this. But I did it .... without a tablet! wink laughing
          3. Korsar4
            Korsar4 20 October 2020 21: 55
            +3
            It's good that you don't have to buy a patent like in England.
        3. Catfish
          Catfish 20 October 2020 18: 07
          +3
          "The Russians do not abandon their own in the war!" (c) ("Brother2")
          Meme we can - we will help. smile
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 20 October 2020 20: 21
            +1
            To be honest, I did not watch Brother.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 20 October 2020 20: 58
              +3
              Take a look, it makes sense for the sake of one Sukhorukov. His phrases became just winged. smile
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 20 October 2020 21: 03
                +3
                Or this ?!

                Yeah!
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 20 October 2020 21: 08
                  +3
                  Another legendary phrase, he looked into the water. laughing
                  In front of the Count's pier.
              2. Phil77
                Phil77 20 October 2020 21: 05
                +3
                Quote: Sea Cat
                His phrases became just winged.

                And not only him.

                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 20 October 2020 21: 07
                  +3
                  Is this really bad, or less topical?
          2. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 20 October 2020 20: 36
            +1
            I have a book: "Small arms" and there is this PP Erma. My "girlfriend" copies from her Erma. She calls him - Ema, girlfriend is Ema
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 20 October 2020 21: 04
              +2
              This is the MP-38, the first production version. It is immediately noticeable by the longitudinal grooves on the receiver, the MP-40 no longer had them.
              MR-38

              MR-40
        4. Phil77
          Phil77 20 October 2020 18: 26
          +4
          Quote: Astra wild2
          My tablet fell from the third floor, and there were passwords and that's it. They gave me a new phone so I wouldn't cry, but I couldn't enter the site

          * ... Why do tablets not fly?
          I'm saying why tablets don't fly like birds? ... *wink laughing wink
          This is to paraphrase Ostrovsky.
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 20 October 2020 18: 47
            +4
            "If to paraphrase Ostrovsky" -Alexander Nikolaevich Ostrovsky
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 20 October 2020 18: 58
              +3
              Quote: vladcub
              Alexander Nikolaevich Ostrovsky

              Precisely, precisely him!
          2. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 20 October 2020 20: 18
            +3
            Do you remember the classics, but I almost grabbed 3 for Katerina's monologue (she said badly)
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 20 October 2020 20: 58
              +2
              Quote: Astra wild2
              I almost grabbed 3 (

              In literature, I have a solid * four *! wink
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 20 October 2020 21: 11
                +3
                Little Johnny:
                - Dad, I brought the "four"!
                - Well done, son, put it in the refrigerator. laughing drinks
  • vladcub
    vladcub 19 October 2020 19: 09
    +2
    I suspect that the amerikos "covered the clearing" with Roman, otherwise how to explain Roman's attention to this magazine.
    Astra2 correctly noted: "tertiary magazine", perhaps 99 out of 100 in the States do not know about this magazine
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 19 October 2020 20: 26
      +7
      otherwise how to explain Roman's attention to this magazine.
      The attention is explained simply as mooing - this material is very suitable for creating a draft on a fan.
      After all, neither the author nor 100% of the commentators have read serious Western historians, they have never seen them. But everyone is commenting on something there, discussing the article of a certain noun, according to the authority of the same historian as our Samsonov. Imagine if in a European edition a delirium about superethnos is printed with a note that it was written by a Russian historian. Guess what they think about history in Russia?
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 21: 45
        +1
        laughing

        Touche!
        But not that
        ... fan thrust
        , but simply because of the crisis, those have to grind the chewed many times with their gums.
        For PopMech, this is just a passing article of a regular columnist, probably the same as Skomorokhov. No declarations and claims to the truth.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 19 October 2020 22: 55
        +2
        ... this was written by a Russian historian. Guess what they think about history in Russia?

        My God, he doesn't care what they think about history in Russia.
        Good evening, Victor. hi
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 19 October 2020 23: 02
          +5
          However, rites about the rewriting of history in the West occur regularly, including on this site.
          Good evening, Konstantin.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 19 October 2020 23: 40
            +4
            Good night, most likely. smile
            Do they rewrite anything here? The notorious elephant got me long ago. All this is quite natural in terms of political games, and it has always been. Disgusting? -- Yes! Despicable? -- Yes! But it has always been!
            And do not care what is being rewritten in the West, the main thing is that in our countries the people know the true history, and there are already real problems with this. My children know the history of our country, I mean the history of our common country at all times, before the advent of "historical materialism" and after its death, and what will happen to their grandchildren, I'm afraid to even guess, watching the faces of those sitting in the Kremlin today. I think your situation is even worse.
      3. vladcub
        vladcub 20 October 2020 08: 43
        +2
        V.N., I will slightly correct you: "100 то commentators not only have not read, they do not know about their existence" so it will be more accurate
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 19 October 2020 22: 36
      +2
      Slava, I don’t think they covered a clearing for him, he’s just an addicted person with little baggage, but hardly a provocateur.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 20 October 2020 08: 44
        +1
        Kostya, he's just happy that you don't consider him a provocateur
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 20 October 2020 18: 10
          +2
          I think that he does not care, as, in fact, any of us.
  • Alexander Kopychev
    Alexander Kopychev 19 October 2020 21: 00
    0
    Quote: Dalny V
    And one more thing - how can you record the whole epic with the blockade of Leningrad or the long-term battle for the Atlantic into the category of battles? Here the word "battle", I think, is rather used for a catchphrase.

    I completely agree, in this vein I propose to include the Battle of Poland in 1939, the Battle of France in 1940 and further down the list ...
  • Niel-le-Calais
    Niel-le-Calais 19 October 2020 22: 38
    +3
    Thanks everyone for the nice comments. It was nice to read
    Ratings and tops of Great / Best / Significant battles / vehicles, etc. are ways to create holivars out of the blue.
    Everything is important to me. The smallest battles, accidents create a web. Where even accidental shots and wounds can affect big and meaningful battles ...
    The course of a war may not even be determined by shots or explosions ...
    After all, there are a lot of battles that did not require either cartridges or explosives ...
    Inventions, intelligence, ransomware and crackers, communications, logistics, diplomacy, medicine, supplies and much more so that we can discuss what is more important Stalingrad or the evacuation of the Maritime Army ..
    And in general, the globality of the Second World War is due to progress and oil ...
  • alsoclean
    alsoclean 19 October 2020 23: 12
    +1
    Ostrogozh-Rossoshansk operation 13 - 27 January 1943 - There are slightly fewer prisoners than in Stalingrad. The trophies are enchanting. Allies of the Wehrmacht: Italy, Hungary - completely excluded from hostilities.
  • faterdom
    faterdom 19 October 2020 23: 54
    -1
    Well, with the amendment that the American ... Zadornov was right, not much with them there, with intelligence and ingenuity ... Not a bird talker, but it is correct to note that there is an attempt at some kind of "American" objectivity.
    But there was such a thing before - Bert Lacaster, together with Roman Carmen who shot The Unknown War in the American version (in our Great Patriotic War) - this was a revelation, and not only for Americans - for us, Soviet citizens, for the first time, they showed the war systematically , a lot, not popular, documentary! It was ... it really affected me!
    1. Alexander Kopychev
      Alexander Kopychev 20 October 2020 21: 21
      0
      Lacaster was already pushing against the battle of tyrants (for me, that was the battle of the titans), so it's debatable.
  • BAI
    BAI 20 October 2020 19: 50
    0
    It is strange that the American missed the battle of El Alamein.
    1. Petrik66
      Petrik66 25 October 2020 19: 23
      0
      so there the English hung out.
  • north 2
    north 2 20 October 2020 21: 36
    0
    Well, how can the author in the battle near Moscow not recall that the Russian cold severely froze the Germans. As if these Russian cold weather did not freeze the Soviet soldiers either. And that the Soviet army was retreating, then explain to this author a mysterious technique, when we retreat, we go forward ... https://youtu.be/37l7P5V1eXU
  • MA3UTA
    MA3UTA 21 October 2020 01: 45
    +1
    The Yassy-Kishinev operation, brilliant in design and execution, rightly went down in the history of the Great Patriotic War as one of the most effective offensive operations of the Red Army.
    Of the 341 thousand soldiers and officers of the 6th German army, 256 thousand were killed or taken prisoner
    The total number of Romanian soldiers and officers who died during the Iassy-Chisinau operation amounted to 73,9 thousand people


    The losses of the Red Army in the Iassy-Kishinev operation included 13.197 dead and missing
    (1 percent of the total number of troops of the two fronts) and 53.933 wounded,

    And Romania was redirected against the Germans.
  • RAS-159
    RAS-159 22 October 2020 08: 21
    0
    WWII ended in defeat for Japan, where the lightning-fast, relatively anemic "Manchurian operation" was the final chord.
  • Roman 4912
    Roman 4912 23 October 2020 22: 58
    0
    The list was made by an American after all. They had their own World War II, and they fought with Japan. And that there was someone else fighting somewhere else - they were not very worried. They also helped financially. And as it turned out, they guessed so well with this help that they later regretted it.
  • Petrik66
    Petrik66 25 October 2020 19: 22
    0
    And the "bagration" in 1944?
  • Cowbra
    Cowbra 26 October 2020 17: 53
    0
    Tendentiousness is still a sea. First, it is understandable that it is painful, but for an American not to mention Pearl Harbor, it is generally beyond the bounds. Of our defeats, the defeat near Kiev was much more significant. And here it is not even a matter of losses - the Germans got the granary. Read the now digitized reports to the General Staff from the commanders of German units. There, in the first line, how many grub were captured. only then - with whom they fought, how much did they lose ... Without gunpowder or began to fight it is impossible? Can you go without food? Without it, there will be no steel, no gunpowder, no soldiers, and the oil of Romania or the factories of Czechoslovakia will not help! Here on this they fought, otherwise they would have died of hunger.
  • Yuriy Malyshko
    Yuriy Malyshko 26 November 2020 03: 21
    0
    Thank God that this "historian" knows at least something about the war!