While the United States sells the F-35 at an overpriced price to others, it is developing a new fighter itself - Japanese press

The United States has already developed the next generation fighter jet. Will Roper, executive director of procurement for the US Air Force, said in mid-September this year that the next-generation NGAD (Next Generation Air Dominance) fighter, which is to replace the F-15 C / D and F-22A, is already flying. The Japanese information service Yahoo News Japan writes about this.

At the moment it is not known what kind of fighter the demo is, who developed it and when it made its first flight. The new fighter is to replace the F-15 C / D and F-22A fighters in the future. His concept began to be discussed in the early 2010s, with different opinions expressed: whether it would be enough to simply upgrade the F-35 or whether it would be necessary to develop a manned fighter from scratch.

As a result, in 2019, the concept of a "series of the digital age" was proposed, which implies the introduction of new fighters with the latest technologies at that time through the use of digital design technologies and the latest production technologies every eight years, as well as the decommissioning of those already in service every 16 years. aircraft.

The essence of the concept is the development of new fighters during a cycle close to the "series of the century" through the use of digital technologies

- the author writes.

Thanks to the new fighter concept, the US is expected to be one step ahead of other countries, especially China.

Whether the United States will accept this concept or not is currently unknown. However, the author writes, the Air Force of the Japanese Self-Defense Forces is very concerned about this problem, because they operate the American F-15 and F-35 fighters and develop their own next-generation fighter using the usual methods.

This article was reacted by readers who left several comments:

The self-defense forces in a bad way treat technology too carefully. They will not fit the concept of renewal in eight and 16 years. They used the museum F-4 until the last moment. The goal of the US Air Force is to match the era when the forms of warfare and the military environment are changing in a kaleidoscope. And I'm worried about whether Japan will be able to stay afloat by developing fighters with outdated methods. It's time to run the prototypes drones

It is time for Japan to discuss new development methods so that its fighters do not become a legacy of the past and that it does not bear the burden of maintenance and modernization costs. If Japan is going to develop a new plane, then it should be superior to the already purchased F-35, but I don't think Mitsubishi Electric, Fujitsu and NEC are capable of that. Unless we get ahead of the United States, or at least implement an equal vision, we cannot defend the country.

It is noted that F-35s are being sold to Japan and other US allies at an inflated price, and they are developing the next generation fighter.

They know how to do business! Not bad Abe was fooled, right? We urgently need to turn the F-35 into a carrier-based fighter, and send the remaining budget to the development of our aircraft. Moreover, it is necessary to start developing an unmanned fighter, as the United States did.

The meaning of the concept is something like this: not to drive a Toyota Crown (an expensive and advanced car) for 15 years, but to change a Toyota Corolla (a people's car) every five years

Comments

[Observer2014]

While the United States sells the F-35 at an overpriced price to others, it is developing a new fighter itself - Japanese press

The Japanese seem to have begun to suspect something

[Temples]

As a result, in 2019 the concept of the "series of the digital age" was proposed, implying the introduction of new fighters every eight years.

The concept adopted by managers does not guarantee the creation of new technology by engineers. In the sense of new in its main combat capabilities.

You can accept the concept of the creation of the next Newton's laws every eight years - law 4, law 5, law 6, etc.
In parallel, accept the concept of adopting new theories of Einstein.

The concepts will oblige scientists to create these laws and theories.

And, what is funny and amazing, laws and theories will be created, Nobel prizes will be handed out, planes will be produced and sold. The money has been spent and increased.

True, the next laws will be fake, but this will not hurt to make money on the production of new aircraft.

For example, new cars are produced every two or three years. And new in these cars only gadgets and various pribluda.
But they are NEW! and this is the main factor in the sale.

In general, rabbit breeding. The whole world is suckers for those who breed this world for loot!

[Avior]

And even less does it guarantee that legislators will allocate money to renew the aircraft fleet

[Temples]

The F-35 has been in serial production for almost ten years.
Produced and sold, as well as planned and guaranteed for sale more than THREE THOUSANDS of these aircraft.

In combat, they are practically not seen.

Soon, a NEW one MUST appear to replace this model!

This is a business project!

This plane is not for war. This and the following aircraft are for sale!

Now everyone will be told the advantage of the next generation of aircraft.
This will happen at the moment when the next project is ready for production.

I have no doubt that this will happen during the period specified in the new concept for the development of aircraft manufacturing in the United States.
Of the 16 years of the model's life, 10 are almost completed.
In 6 years there will be a NEW plane.
Get your wallets ready, gentlemen.

This is BUSINESS!

Advertisers will communicate the benefits of the new model to everyone. Do not doubt.

And there is no point in fighting using these aircraft.
You can't go mushroom picking in a Ferrari.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Temples

In combat, they are practically not seen.

Countries that have the F35 in service do not wage war. How can the F35 be seen in combat if there are no wars? Except Israel, but everything is on the level of rumors there.

[voyaka uh]

"In the fighting, they are practically not seen" ////
----
And who is seen? Su-30 and Su-35 have been in service for a long time.
Did they hit someone? - no. And not because they are bad.
There are no wars, no fighting.

[stalkerwalker]

I agree.
The cost of toys is critical.
Let us recall the notorious "Tirpitz". So much fear caught up. And he died ingloriously.

[3danimal]

Now someone will remember that in friendly close combat in the United States (in the 90s), the F-15Ds lost to the Su-27 (UB), the development of which is 30/35. Though conditional, but "frag".

[vVvAD]

Not so simple. They want to save on the resource of products (the larger the resource, the more expensive the manufacturing technology of the product) and on modernization (in 16 years this is one in 8 years), as well as to ensure the constant loading of military factories with large orders (arms lobby). At the same time, there will be 3 products of the same class in service: conditionally, the 2nd modification of the 1st generation is written off in parallel with the commissioning of the 1st modification of the 3rd generation, and the 2nd generation product is being modified. To prevent a logistical nightmare, interoperability and standards change issues need to be addressed. In terms of money, it may be cheaper, but more resource-intensive. Consequently, the Achilles' heel of the concept is a greater reliance on imported rare earth metals. The second weakness is a major war. In this case, the very fact of the presence of several products of the same class will complicate management, training and limit the flexibility of use due to the need to retrain the crew and maintenance.
And yes: the development is not from breakthrough research, but from what is - but this is already a familiar approach for the United States. The first ones are carried out in parallel by several private corporations funded by the Pentagon / NASA, in fact, has already given an advantage in terms of Musk's rockets. But it is not a fact that it is a feature of the approach and will remain in the future, and not just luck against the background of our stagnation in the field of rocketry. Well, the series of the century is not from a good life: they are looking for ways to improve efficiency and overcome the lag in other areas.

[voyaka uh]

I think it's even more difficult.
Their "digital method" allows airplane design without blowing
in wind tunnels. Apparently a good program has been developed.
This cuts R&D at times.
From the drawing and detailing in the computer - immediately to the airfield.
Otherwise, one cannot explain the incredible speed with which the Americans rolled out
its trainer jet and its 6th generation prototype.

[vVvAD]

The digital method is used in our country, as well as semi-natural modeling. As far as I remember, they have been using the computer-aided design method in shipbuilding for a long time. the person sets the parameters and makes final edits. Perhaps he got to the local aircraft industry. Of course, it speeds up the design several times, but the issue of design quality remains open: i.e. nothing revolutionary, only a few layout options that are close in the totality of qualities to the given initial parameters.

[Bar1]

Well, the Russian Ministry of Defense, or whoever decides there, decided to wait with su57 until the Americans make their own.

[figwam]

Quote: Observer2014

The Japanese seem to have begun to suspect something

The United States used one of the methods of taking money from its partners, although they themselves understand that the plane did not work out.

[neri73-r]

Unless we get ahead of the United States, or at least implement an equal vision, we cannot defend the country.

I’m dead steel! The occupied country is going to defend itself from someone. You will be cannon fodder on the orders of the Anglo-Saxons in the war with us and / or with China and that's it, period.

[antivirus]

The Japanese seem to have begun to suspect something

-no-it is the USA itself proposed to prepare for the purchase of new ones in 7-8 years and throw out the "old" F35

[Incvizitor]

They are a colony, their business is not blathering to please the owners.

[Zaurbek]

The meaning of the concept is something like this: not to drive a Toyota Crown (an expensive and advanced car) for 15 years, but to change a Toyota Corolla (a people's car) every five years

Interesting concept

[Livonetc]

This concept has as its goal not so much absolute military domination as the development of science and production within the country.
Will entail the creation of many skilled jobs, new technologies and economic development.
New wave of US industrialization.

[Zaurbek]

There is also the acceleration of the creation of concepts and their quick launch into a series and quick adaptation to the needs. Instead of the traditional approach and a series of upgrades. Probably, a significant part of the tests - the main one goes into the computer ... and the Russian 3D technologies for manufacturing parts will also be the main ones, which will reduce the impact of a large series of products on the cost price. And this will make it possible to make a non-mass aircraft - at cost as a mass one.

[forester1971]

You can continue this concept - to change the "Lada Grant" every year.

[Runoway]

"Lada Grant" as well as gas prices cannot be changed by anything, in view of the monopoly!

[Maks1995]

If we digress from the hap-quirk of the article and comments, then the conclusions are disappointing.

1) while we cannot put the SU 57 into operation, the Americans are really developing the next generation.

2) Americans are successfully doing business selling aircraft. The last deals, they wrote, F35 is no longer so expensive, and its other models are much more expensive.

And there are many of them.

[kot423]

Quote: Max1995

until we can put into operation SU 57, the Americans are really developing the next generation.

Are you involved in this development, if you speak so confidently about it?
Without any "kooky hat", just a question: will you choose the classic "Mercedes" or the prototype of the "Tesla" crossover, taking into account the fact that on the latter the wheels will fall off, or the batteries will explode (simplified example)? And at the same time "Tesla" managers sculpt you that "yes lan, it's all bullshit, we are developing the next super duper car, here it will be - hoo".
It's the same with the penguin and the following developments.

[MKPU-115]

Quote: Max1995

Americans are successfully doing business selling aircraft.

Yeah, F-35 for sale, but not for combat

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Max1995

1) while we cannot put into operation SU 57

The F22 went into mass production 15 years after the first flight, 57 years have passed for the Su 10

Quote: Max1995

Americans are successfully doing business selling aircraft. Recent deals, they wrote, F35 is no longer so expensive

For their Air Force they buy F35A for 78 million dollars, they sold to Poland for 87 million dollars.

[eklmn]

"For their Air Force they buy F35A for 78 million dollars, they sold to Poland for 87 million dollars."
Should training / warranties / maintenance / weapons be free?
If you subtract the cost of driving training and the cost of 5-year insurance from the cost of the new car you buy, the price will go down - right?

[OgnennyiKotik]

No, I wrote about the price for the plane itself with the engine. The entire Polish contract, like 140 million per unit, comes out.

[eklmn]

We do not know the number of weapons included in the contract. In addition, there is no need to build logistics for the amers, but the Poles need hangars (planes are afraid of the sun), bases for storing spare parts, arms lifters, etc. I think that the construction of these technical buildings was provided by the Americans in the contract.

[Cat]

As far as I know, the Poles were completely sanded on this contract - there are many other things besides the planes themselves: navigation equipment, simulators, testing systems for onboard software and, like a cherry, the cost of renting or leasing (I don't know for sure) the software itself. It would be extremely interesting to read the entire contract.

[eklmn]

"... navigation equipment, simulators, testing systems for onboard software and, like a cherry, the cost of renting or leasing (I don't know exactly) the software itself."
Without all this, you listed, the hammer will work, and the F-35 will not be able to fly. And he will have to fly for 10-15-20 years.
And as for the software payment, I have 4 programs in my pc, for updating which I pay $$$ every year. on these programs I earn my own butter and caviar.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Quote: Max1995

until we can put into operation SU 57, the Americans are really developing the next generation.

Here we must make a distinction - F-22 and Su-57 - revolutionary aircraft to such an extent that they are conditionally assigned a generational change classification.

In the United States, it is proposed to move from revolutionary to innovative changes in aircraft design - that is, every 8 years to release the following aircraft modifications with some improvements - without waiting for a generational change. This is mainly justified by economic considerations.
Here is the original Defense News article.
https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-news/2020/09/15/the-us-air-force-has-built-and-flown-a-mysterious-full-scale-prototype-of-its-future-fighter-jet/

Briefly on the quotes:

The turning point for the Air Force comes when the plane turns 15. At this age, the cost of maintaining connections is growing rapidly, increasing by another 3-7 percent annually.

That is, it is more expensive to modernize aging aircraft and maintain them in flying condition.
They want to get away from this:

But for the same price as one digitally produced fighter with a 30-year life cycle, the Air Force could buy a new fighter every eight years and replace it after 16 years - before the plane reached 3500 flight hours. Note that here it begins to need major repairs and expensive modifications to extend its service life.

And the main thing in this is the unification of structural elements in a single base between three manufacturers:

Digital engineering allows us to create different types of aircraft, and if we are really smart ... we provide intelligent unification for the entire fleet - common ancillary equipment, common cockpit configurations, common interfaces, common architecture, even common components like landing gear - which make it easier to maintain stability and field maintenance

As a result, what will this lead to:

To continually design new fighters, the service will continually contract with multiple vendors to develop new aircraft, selecting a new design approximately every eight years. To obtain a business case that is beneficial to the industry, the company will purchase batches of 50-80 aircraft annually.

As a result, development costs increase by 25 percent.and manufacturing costs by 18 percent. However, the cost of aircraft upgrades will drop 79 percent, while maintenance costs will mostly be cut in half.

A normal lobbying article in support of aircraft manufacturers, adjusting the basis for additional expenses on aviation - to make modernized aircraft more often, but in small batches.
Anything is better than a 30 year generation cycle.
In general, aircraft engineers need to be fed, while receiving improved fighter upgrades every 16 years.

[Maks1995]

You are right.
but times are changing.
Everyone understood that the full-fledged promised 6th generation would not be pulled right away (spacewalk and swarm control)
So start looking for something real. Here is a block system, apparently, that has been discussed for a long time in the world and on VO.

But the main thing is not even her, but that the Japanese blabbed about the real tests of the following amerovsky prototypes.

[Doccor18]

Article ..teen, on this topic

the concept of "series of the digital age", implying the introduction of new fighters every eight years with the latest technologies at that time ..

Even if we take into account that this concept will speed up the design at times, then how can it speed up flight tests, fine-tuning, so to speak, to the mind of the aircraft (elimination of all the shortcomings, which are always a lot in a new product) and the development of the car crews. In the best case, all this will take just 8 years. And then bang .. and a new plane appeared ... For UAVs, this concept is a breakthrough, for manned aviation, it is still a fantasy.

[nPuBaTuP]

fine-tuning, so to speak, to the mind of the aircraft (elimination of all defects, which are always a lot in a new product)

And just like with the penguin

[Alex_You]

It is noted that F-35s are being sold to Japan and other US allies at an inflated price, and they are developing the next generation fighter.

Why sit back? And it's not a fact that the new fighter will be exported, there was an incident with a raptor.

[aszzz888]

It is noted that F-35s are being sold at an inflated price to Japan and other US allies,

Wow!!! We just noticed! Just try not to buy, the owner will immediately shorten the leash, and he will cut off the zhrachka.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

Almost a month has passed since the publication in the USA, and then on VO someone found a reprint in the Japanese press and realized :))

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

A citizen posted a link to the original source of this article long ago - what's the point in discussing reprints?

Grazdanin 17 September 2020 14:36
They are talking about the prototype. I recommend reading the original source.
https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-news/2020/09/15/the-us-air-force-has-built-and-flown-a-mysterious-full-scale-prototype-of-its-future-fighter-jet/
https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/2019/09/16/the-us-air-forces-radical-plan-for-a-future-fighter-could-field-a-jet-in-5-years/

[rotmistr60]

They know how to do business! Not bad Abe was fooled, right?

It began to come to the understanding that the United States is not "friends", but is doing business exclusively in their own interests, and they are interested in a business partner only at the first stage - payment for what they have gotten. I wonder what costs the concept will require - in 8 years a new one, in 16 to write off?

[antivirus]

I wonder what the concept will require - in 8 years a new one, in 16 to write off?

-how to sell used cars to allies and to Africa

[Operator]

The lucky owners of the "Penguins" - the Israelis still need to learn and learn from the Americans on distributing their allies for money

[Runoway]

Laugh at yourself! Compare the living standards of the Russian Federation and Israel (the only place in the Middle East where there is no oil at all), especially pay attention to the state of the avionics of the Israeli and Aerospace Forces aircraft fleet.
Moreover, having shot down an Israeli plane, Erdogan would not have remained in debt (and just that small state with a dead sea and sands)
All information in the public domain

[Operator]

Compared - you die like flies from the coronavirus against the background of your lack of medicine and begging like rogue from your US procurator, and he throws you gnawed bones like "Penguin".

[Runoway]

And stop watching TV, otherwise you will drown in money from the growing economy, this is me about dying Israel and the growing Moscow Bad. Russian Soloviev, Dvorkovich, Lavrov and all the others are also broadcasting to you there))))))
The "US prosecutor's office" had 70% of the Jewish parliament and even Ivanka Trump (the daughter of a billionaire and the president of the hegemon) had to accept a Jewish one so that a representative of the Jewish elite would marry

[Operator]

Everything flows and changes - soon 70% of the US Congress will be African Americans and their supporters

[APASUS]

Some began to suspect that the Americans had them with the F-35 ??? Well, you must !!!

[ZEMCH]

In addition to the United States, Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Turkey (Ankara's participation is currently being reviewed, but there is no replacement yet), are taking part in the F-35 fighter program. This cooperation allows a "screwdriver" assembly to be organized in Fort Worth. But the transfer of technology for the production of engines and software to partners was not carried out (Israel puts its software, weapons and avionics). The lack of qualified personnel and the economic inexpediency of organizing these industries does not allow organizing production entirely on its territory.

[Cat]

as well as the decommissioning of aircraft already in service every 16 years

With the subsequent sale to their "allies".
I also do this with my computer equipment, if children who have broken another smart do not interfere in the "business process"

[lvov_aleksey]

Let them fly, but they don't approach us !!!!!!!!!!
ps our air defense and reconnaissance will study)))