Military Review

Which grouping of troops may be surrounded in the Fizuli area: a dispute of experts on the situation in Karabakh

174

Armenian military personnel



During the armed conflict, the President of the unrecognized Nagorno-Karabakh Republic issued an order to confer a higher rank on the Minister of Defense. On the basis of the order of the NKR President Arayik Harutyunyan, the head of the Artsakh defense department, Major General Jalal Harutyunyan, became Lieutenant General.

It is noteworthy that this information was immediately reflected in their official accounts by the Prime Minister of Armenia Nikol Pashinyan, the press secretary of the Armenian Ministry of Defense Shushan Stepanyan and other officials of the Republic of Armenia.

At the same time, opinions on this matter were divided. In Armenia and NKR themselves, many believe that conferring the rank of lieutenant general on the Artsakh defense minister will raise the morale of the military personnel at the front. Others believe that at the moment the assignment of military ranks is inappropriate - against the background of the most difficult situation at the front.

Meanwhile, the leadership of Azerbaijan reports that recently the troops managed to take control of 8 settlements in Fizuli and Khojavend regions. These are the villages of Karakolu, Karadagli, Khatunbulak, Bulutan, Teke, Tagaser, Melikyanli and Kemertuk (Azerbaijani names).



At the same time, military experts assess the situation in the south-eastern direction of the conflict in different ways, engaging in a kind of dispute. Some argue that the Armenian side deliberately surrenders small settlements, luring the enemy into the "cauldron".



Others oppose, noting that the NKR troops are leaving the territories, simply not being able to withstand the Azerbaijani onslaught, and therefore in the Fizuli region, the NKR group of troops may itself be surrounded. There is also an opinion that the forces that are concentrated in this direction can hardly be called a "group of troops."

This dispute in absentia continues, but so far in the southeastern direction, the Azerbaijani troops have a local advantage.
Photos used:
Twitter / IWN, Twitter / Conquest1453, Facebook / Shushan Stepanyan
174 comments
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  1. Same lech
    Same lech 15 October 2020 14: 37
    +4
    Here is another interesting look at the current situation in Karabakh.
    http://agitpro.su/azerbajdzhan-dobilsya-v-karabaxe-novoj-voennoj-realnosti/?utm_source=warfiles.ru
    1. Oleg123219307
      Oleg123219307 15 October 2020 15: 11
      24
      Reading all this, I had a question. And on whose side is the public opinion of the audience of this resource? Armenia seems to be an ally in the CSTO, but a nominal ally, like the others, who did not recognize Crimea, did not help in 15 year with sanctions against Turkey, and de facto seized a piece of Azerbaijan. Moreover, the mood on the Armenian forums - "Russians are bad * you must save us and recognize Karabakh." Azerbaijan is not at war with us either, in fact they are right in this situation, but their friends are lousy, but I don't intend to forget that plane, and I consider it impossible to help Erdogan. The mood on the Azerbaijani forums is cautiously neutral, with a slight tinge of the same "Russians are bad *" but seasoned with a certain shade of fear that we will fit in. Hence the question. In your opinion, should we help one of the sides, or remain demonstratively neutral, and what outcome of the war seems to you most in line with our interests? My opinion is neutrality, but on the condition that the territory of Armenia will not be touched, and Turkey will not be in the war. One way or another, this question has been hanging for 30 years, if now everything ends one way or another, there will be more stability.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 15 October 2020 15: 18
        13
        You need to be for world peace, while not forgetting about the benefits of your own military-industrial complex (population). Accordingly, nothing strengthens friendship between peoples and trust in business like a timely prepayment
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 15 October 2020 16: 04
            -1
            From the very beginning of the conflict it was clear about the allies (“shooting down the F-16 of Turkey”, etc.), but about Russia, I don’t know, the country's main profits come from the sale of resources. In peacetime, the consumption of the population increases, respectively, there is an increase in production, as a result, the consumption of oil increases, along with its price. MIC is a nice bonus
        2. MTN
          MTN 15 October 2020 16: 00
          +1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          You need to be for world peace, while not forgetting about the benefits of your own military-industrial complex (population).

          Armenians don't think so. They have other plans for you.

          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 15 October 2020 16: 06
            +2
            I have already replied to the deleted message laughing
            1. MTN
              MTN 15 October 2020 16: 08
              +1
              I read it) Thanks for the feedback)
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 15 October 2020 16: 44
                +1
                By the way, the same can be said about Azerbaijan, although after this war, having slightly changed the Israeli line, you will be able to produce your own drones at a competitive price. They have already received advertising.
                1. Isim soyad
                  Isim soyad 16 October 2020 15: 45
                  -5
                  And in Azerbaijan, the production of drones has long been established, and even drone drone according to Israeli technologies and licenses.
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 16 October 2020 15: 52
                    -1
                    So you cannot sell them with your own line - for your own sale NOW you need to make changes to them to become "original". In a few years, depending on the terms of the contract, yes, it will be possible to sell licensed
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 16 October 2020 16: 49
                        0
                        Pronounced like zerbe?
                      2. Isim soyad
                        Isim soyad 18 October 2020 05: 23
                        +1
                        Yes, something like this, Zerbe.
    2. MTN
      MTN 15 October 2020 15: 48
      +1
      Quote: oleg123219307
      Moreover, the mood in the Armenian forums - "Russians are bad* you are obliged to save us and recognize Karabakh. "Azerbaijan is not at war with us either, in fact they are right in this situation, but their friends are lousy

      Lousy friends? What criteria did you use to determine this? Azerbaijan Abused Friendship with Russia? Posters with "compliments" to Russia? Or did you buy weapons like the Armenians from others? Is 5 billion Russian weapons not enough? Did the Russians close schools? So what? It seems to me that you have never learned to distinguish between friends and enemies.

      Quote: oleg123219307
      on the condition that the territory of Armenia is not touched

      Take it easy. Nobody is going to go to Armenia. Putin and Aliyev have already discussed everything in detail. Erdogan is also aware. So take it easy. A war in the southern expanses of Russia is impossible without permission from the Kremlin.
      1. Oleg123219307
        Oleg123219307 15 October 2020 16: 56
        +9
        Quote: MTN
        Lousy friends? What criteria did you use to determine this?

        On the downed plane and killed our pilot. Maybe our government is playing "partners" with them, but for me, as for the majority, a NATO country with a thousand-year history of war with us, and even daring to arrange an open act of war with us is an enemy. Therefore, I am more than wary of the friends of the enemy.
        Quote: MTN
        Azerbaijan Abused Friendship with Russia?

        It is difficult to abuse what is not. We are neighbors, not friends. Remember what Azerbaijan was like during the war in Chechnya ...
        Quote: MTN
        Or did you buy weapons like the Armenians from others?

        They bought a lot of weapons from someone, well, this is their right, I don't judge by this criterion.
        Quote: MTN
        It seems to me that you have never learned to distinguish between friends and enemies.

        Do we have friends besides the eternal Army and Navy? This is news ...
        Quote: MTN
        Take it easy. Nobody is going to go to Armenia. Putin and Aliyev have already discussed everything in detail. Erdogan is also aware. So take it easy. A war in the southern expanses of Russia is impossible without permission from the Kremlin.

        Hopefully. For then I will have to get in, but I would not want that, because I believe that everything that happens is a showdown of strangers that do not concern us and from which no benefit can be derived for the country.
        1. MTN
          MTN 15 October 2020 16: 59
          -6
          Quote: oleg123219307
          On the downed plane and killed our pilot.

          And what does Azerbaijan have to do with it?))) From your writings I did not understand where does Azerbaijan have to do with it?
          1. Oleg123219307
            Oleg123219307 15 October 2020 17: 01
            10
            Quote: MTN
            And what does Azerbaijan have to do with it?))) From your writings I did not understand where does Azerbaijan have to do with it?

            You asked why I think Azerbaijan has lousy friends. I answered. Azerbaijan's closest friend is Turkey, one of our worst enemies.
            1. MTN
              MTN 15 October 2020 22: 08
              0
              Quote: oleg123219307
              Turkey, one of our worst enemies.

              My dear, I disagree about the worst ASh. If they are so bad, why does half of Russia rest there and spend a lot of money there? If they are so angry, why are you patrolling together and helping each other in Syria? If he is so bad, the long-awaited Su57 which you do not have, Putin with a smile offered to sell it. So you are selling to your enemies too? С400 ... God knows what else they will buy. If they are enemies why are you building a nuclear power plant for them .... nothing personally business? I have to take this so that Stalin sold the T-34 to Hitler ??? Or do you have power and the people have different interests?
              1. Oleg123219307
                Oleg123219307 15 October 2020 22: 43
                +5
                Quote: MTN
                My dear, I disagree about the worst ASh. If they are so bad, why does half of Russia rest there and spend a lot of money there? If they are so angry, why are you patrolling together and helping each other in Syria? If he is so bad, the long-awaited Su57 which you do not have, Putin with a smile offered to sell it. So you are selling to your enemies too? С400 ... God knows what else they will buy. If they are enemies why are you building a nuclear power plant for them .... nothing personally business? I have to take this so that Stalin sold the T-34 to Hitler ??? Or do you have power and the people have different interests?

                I think in this matter your last statement is closest to the truth. Interests are really different. If you look up the statistics, you will see that since 2015 the same tourist flow has decreased several times. And it is very difficult now to find a person in Russia who loves Turkey in its present form. What makes our government understandable, but I'm not sure that they are right. As for my personal opinion - I consider their danger very underestimated. Yes, today they are not our opponents militarily. That Turkey for 10 minutes and 50 warheads and they will not be able to oppose anything to this, they know very well about this and there is nothing to worry about. But tomorrow, if World War 3 happens in which we will suffer very much, or another revolution, with which our people periodically love to have fun, and I'm not sure that Turkish soldiers will not come to visit us. In all likelihood, along with Ukrainian. Considering the views prevailing in these countries among the radicals, namely, to cut out the unfaithful / damned Muscovites, and the fact that I live in the Kuban, just in the middle between these "partners", I personally would like us to remain strong forever, or so that we have time earlier...
              2. Alexander Dolgov
                Alexander Dolgov 18 October 2020 14: 28
                0
                With the Power and the People to the point !!!
            2. KARAKURT777
              KARAKURT777 16 October 2020 10: 04
              +4
              Well, Armenia's closest friend is the United States.
              1. Oleg123219307
                Oleg123219307 16 October 2020 10: 11
                +1
                Quote: KARAKURT777
                Well, Armenia's closest friend is the United States.

                But this is one of the main reasons why I do not consider it necessary to help ANYONE. And the integrity of Armenia should be ensured ONLY so as not to expose our guys from the base to the attacks of Turkey, which will then have to fight, or the Armenians themselves, who want to recoup them.
      2. Boris ⁣ Shaver
        Boris ⁣ Shaver 16 October 2020 00: 19
        +2
        Quote: MTN
        What criteria did you use to determine this?

        After the activation of nationalist movements in Azerbaijan, hundreds of thousands of Russians were forced to leave their homes, to leave the region in which they were born and raised. We did not squeeze Azerbaijanis out of Russia.
        And today the sultan, who is not our friend at all, is trying to drive up the hump of Azerbaijan to our borders.
        These criteria are more than enough for us.
      3. ism_ek
        ism_ek 16 October 2020 07: 36
        +8
        After the collapse of the USSR, Armenia was a mono-national state, unlike Azerbaijan. Only in Baku, 300 tons of Russians lived. Most of whom were forced to leave. For most Russians, Azerbaijanis are enemies. There is nothing to be done
    3. Nadrub
      Nadrub 15 October 2020 15: 49
      17
      If this question had been asked 20 years ago, it would definitely be for the Armenians, now for no one, because then Azerbaijan and Yerevan were part of the USSR and the population was Soviet. But now everything is different, now there are just Armenians and Azerbaijanis, and both are worth each other, so our politicians do not have any emotions .... only the maximum benefit, political and financial. That radical Islam exported by the Turks to Baku, that soroscine in Armenia, as a cancer, and as a choice between lung or stomach cancer.
      1. MTN
        MTN 15 October 2020 16: 50
        -2
        Quote: Truth
        now there are just Armenians and Azerbaijanis and both are standing

        George, can you tell us why Azerbaijan did not please you?
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 16 October 2020 15: 53
          +3
          There are too many of your compatriots in our country .. With obvious overkill. Besides, there are no less Armenians. Therefore, both sides are equally unpleasant.
        2. BastaKarapuzik And
          BastaKarapuzik And 16 October 2020 21: 47
          0
          Armenia did not recognize the NKR, and no one recognized it. There was a peace settlement plan, and there can be no two opinions, the aggravation began after a deliberate provocation, in which the parties to the conflict accused each other. But, of course, only one is to blame for the provocation.
          The problem of this aggravation of the conflict is that there is a division into two camps, it is difficult to maintain neutrality. And these are negative consequences and neither of the parties needs it, it may be necessary for some third party.
      2. Oleg123219307
        Oleg123219307 15 October 2020 16: 58
        +3
        Quote: Truth
        as a choice between lung or stomach cancer

        Nice ... In my opinion, in the current situation, the metaphor is extremely accurate.
    4. AndreyS
      AndreyS 15 October 2020 15: 58
      -1
      Quote: oleg123219307
      Armenia seems to be an ally in the CSTO, but a nominal ally, like the others, who did not recognize Crimea, did not help in 15 year with sanctions against Turkey, and de facto seized a piece of Azerbaijan.
      Where did you get this de facto de facto ???
      "...On September 2, 1991, at a joint session of the Nagorno-Karabakh Regional and Shahumyan District Councils of People's Deputies, a Declaration was adopted on the proclamation of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic within the borders of the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region and the adjacent Shahumyan district of the Azerbaijan SSR [22]. On December 10, 1991, a referendum was held on the status of the NKR, 99,89% of the participants of which voted for its independence. This percentage was achieved due to the fact that the referendum was boycotted [23] by the Azerbaijani minority (23% of the total population) of the region. On January 6, 1992, the NKR parliament of the first convocation - the NKR Supreme Council - adopted the Declaration "On the State Independence of the Nagorno Karabakh Republic". In 1991-1994, a military conflict broke out between the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic and Azerbaijan, during which the Azerbaijanis ousted Armenians from the territory of the former Shahumyan region of the Azerbaijan SSR and part of Nagorno-Karabakh, and the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic supported by Armenia established control over several regions of Azerbaijan adjacent to Nagorno Karabakh, and drove out the Azerbaijani population from there, which was qualified in 1993 by the UN Security Council as the occupation of Azerbaijani territory by Armenian forces. In 1992, in order to provide economic support to the former Soviet republics, the United States adopted the Freedom Support Act. The US Senate adopted the 907th amendment to the act, which prohibited the US government from providing assistance to Azerbaijan until Azerbaijan ends the blockade and military operations against Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh... "Oh, how it turns out. But it all started in 1988, when ethnic persecutions began in both republics. Well, a bunch of opinions from different historians breeds a bunch of versions about who captured whom and what ...
      1. credo
        credo 15 October 2020 16: 09
        -1
        "... The US Senate adopted the 907th amendment to the act, which prohibited the US government from providing assistance to Azerbaijan until Azerbaijan ends the blockade and military operations against Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh ..."
        -------------------------------------------------- -
        Information has just passed that the US has sent military transport planes with instructors and military equipment to Azerbaijan.
        How reliable the information is, I cannot judge, but if this is true, then it seems that the assumptions that the Anglo-Saxons are going to crush the South Caucasus and everything that stretches around it for hundreds and thousands of kilometers seems to come true.
        1. Sergei Sovetkin
          Sergei Sovetkin 15 October 2020 16: 22
          -1
          Where does the US information come from?
      2. Oleg123219307
        Oleg123219307 15 October 2020 17: 00
        +1
        Quote: AndreyS
        Where did you get this de facto de facto ???

        In addition to NKR, there are 7 more districts. Azerbaijanis, who were captured by the Armenians out of tactical necessity, and have been pulling rubber for 30 years and do not return. From a legal point of view, everything is quite transparent here.
    5. APASUS
      APASUS 15 October 2020 16: 14
      +5
      Quote: oleg123219307
      My opinion is neutrality, but on the condition that the territory of Armenia will not be touched, and Turkey will not be in the war. One way or another, this question has been hanging for 30 years, if now everything ends one way or another, there will be more stability.

      The West was counting on the participation of Russia. Here everyone is waiting for who will lose their nerves first. And then NATO and the whole honest company will choose the other side who will be against Russia. In essence, they do not care who to support.
      The West needs a second Afghanistan. They are taking on the role of a supplier and will fight by proxy
      1. Krest
        Krest 15 October 2020 16: 19
        -2
        Quote: APASUS
        The West was counting on the participation of Russia. Here everyone is waiting for who will lose their nerves first. And then NATO and the whole honest company will choose the other side who will be against Russia. In essence, they do not care who to support.
        The West needs a second Afghanistan. They are taking on the role of a supplier and will fight by proxy

        I, too, that all this carnage is designed specifically to draw Russia into another conflict, etc.
        And the most interesting thing, the same Pashinyan is somehow passive .. In theory, he should be on his knees in the Kremlin, help and forgive ..
        1. Oleg123219307
          Oleg123219307 15 October 2020 17: 02
          -1
          Quote: Krest
          And the most interesting thing, the same Pashinyan is somehow passive .. In theory, he should be on his knees in the Kremlin, help and forgive ..

          No, then you won't be able to accuse us of unauthorized interference ...
    6. Alexey Sommer
      Alexey Sommer 15 October 2020 16: 21
      +6
      Quote: oleg123219307
      hence the question. Do you think we should help one of the parties,

      I am for those who do not close Russian schools in their country.
      It turns out ...
      I am for Azerbaijan. hi
      In general, the question is a provocation.
      And it is set to be divided into friends and foes.
      The author of the question is a minus. For provocation.
      1. Oleg123219307
        Oleg123219307 15 October 2020 17: 05
        +9
        Quote: Alexey Sommer
        In general, the question is a provocation.
        And it is set to be divided into friends and foes.
        The author of the question is a minus. For provocation.

        Your right, but to be honest, I'm really just wondering. I myself am Russian, I live in the Kuban, I have acquaintances from both sides, and initially I was more likely for Armenia as an ally, until I read their forums over the past 2 weeks. Now I am not for anyone, God forbid, from such allies, and even more from their opponents and their friends.
        1. Rubina
          Rubina 15 October 2020 23: 38
          -2
          Now imagine how the Azerbaijanis have suffered from them over the past 200 years after Tsarist Russia resettled them to the Caucasus.
        2. begemot20091
          begemot20091 16 October 2020 15: 22
          +4
          I support too much reading. I think that there is time to wait - maybe the cartridges will run out. or until the oil terminals are burned, matches will be carried in their pockets. some crash on the dam, others on terminals and oil pipelines. and ... Americans with their shale on horseback. who in the world needs these understates. they lived well within the USSR. lived well: they traded, stole .... Work is not their lot. When the Russians survived after the collapse of the USSR, everything fell into place. The factories stopped - they were plundered, sawn for scrap. Azerbaijan is saving oil. Terminals will explode, they will go abreks, but they will not work. In extreme cases, women will be driven to tea and tobacco. I'm not on anyone's side. I am on the side of RUSSIA. Until we see our benefits, we should not interfere with assistants on one side or the other.
    7. Misha Honest
      Misha Honest 15 October 2020 21: 50
      -4
      Quote: oleg123219307
      Reading all this, I had a question. And on whose side is the public opinion of the audience of this resource? Armenia seems to be an ally in the CSTO, but a nominal ally, like the others, who did not recognize Crimea, did not help in 15 year with sanctions against Turkey, and de facto seized a piece of Azerbaijan. Moreover, the mood on the Armenian forums - "Russians are bad * you must save us and recognize Karabakh." Azerbaijan is not at war with us either, in fact they are right in this situation, but their friends are lousy, but I don't intend to forget that plane, and I consider it impossible to help Erdogan. The mood on the Azerbaijani forums is cautiously neutral, with a slight tinge of the same "Russians are bad *" but seasoned with a certain shade of fear that we will fit in. Hence the question. In your opinion, should we help one of the sides, or remain demonstratively neutral, and what outcome of the war seems to you most in line with our interests? My opinion is neutrality, but on the condition that the territory of Armenia will not be touched, and Turkey will not be in the war. One way or another, this question has been hanging for 30 years, if now everything ends one way or another, there will be more stability.

      It's simple - to annex Armenia and give Azeroth to Iran - let them steam themselves. (I am Russian laughing ) If necessary, I can describe in detail what and why - but oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-very lazy ... request
      1. Oleg123219307
        Oleg123219307 15 October 2020 22: 01
        -1
        Quote: Misha Honest
        If necessary, I can describe in detail what and why - but oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-very lazy ...

        I agree - the way out. Although why do we need that Armenia now ... No, there is no need to explain, in general it is clear to everyone who knows history more or less. Thanks for your opinion.
        1. Misha Honest
          Misha Honest 16 October 2020 00: 04
          0
          Quote: oleg123219307
          Quote: Misha Honest
          If necessary, I can describe in detail what and why - but oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-very lazy ...

          I agree - the way out. Although why do we need that Armenia now ... No, there is no need to explain, in general it is clear to everyone who knows history more or less. Thanks for your opinion.

          Well, if you want everything to be good on the Turkish-Sochi border - then good luck and kick in front of you ... hi
          1. Oleg123219307
            Oleg123219307 16 October 2020 00: 57
            -2
            Quote: Misha Honest
            Quote: oleg123219307
            Quote: Misha Honest
            If necessary, I can describe in detail what and why - but oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-very lazy ...

            I agree - the way out. Although why do we need that Armenia now ... No, there is no need to explain, in general it is clear to everyone who knows history more or less. Thanks for your opinion.

            Well, if you want everything to be good on the Turkish-Sochi border - then good luck and kick in front of you ... hi

            I will paraphrase. Why the territory is clear. But only the territory. As practice has shown, there are more problems than benefits from such fellow citizens.
            1. Misha Honest
              Misha Honest 17 October 2020 14: 25
              -1
              Quote: oleg123219307
              As practice has shown, there are more problems than benefits from such fellow citizens.

              From "what kind"?
              I can give you a personal example: I once rented an apartment to a family of visitors from Armenia. Everything is clean, neat, no complaints from neighbors, and always, even if there were any problems, it was possible to agree with them. But they had a second girl and they needed a bigger apartment ...
              After them the citizens of the Russian Federation settled in (I don't remember exactly, roofing felts from Rostov, or from the Saratov region) ... Well, in fact, they are Russians. recourse They are also quite young - not older than 30. So everything is exactly the opposite: constantly companies, drinking, even fights, the police ... Hell. request
              So that's what I'm thinking - don't judge everyone with the same size.
              1. Oleg123219307
                Oleg123219307 17 October 2020 14: 35
                -1
                Quote: Misha Honest
                Quote: oleg123219307
                As practice has shown, there are more problems than benefits from such fellow citizens.

                From "what kind"?
                I can give you a personal example: I once rented an apartment to a family of visitors from Armenia. Everything is clean, neat, no complaints from neighbors, and always, even if there were any problems, it was possible to agree with them. But they had a second girl and they needed a bigger apartment ...
                After them the citizens of the Russian Federation settled in (I don't remember exactly, roofing felts from Rostov, or from the Saratov region) ... Well, in fact, they are Russians. recourse They are also quite young - not older than 30. So everything is exactly the opposite: constantly companies, drinking, even fights, the police ... Hell. request
                So that's what I'm thinking - don't judge everyone with the same size.

                From those who are for independence, but to whom we always owe everything. Those who live in Russia are a different story. But who lives in these republics themselves, judging by the rhetoric, we are not even close to comrades ...
                1. Misha Honest
                  Misha Honest 17 October 2020 14: 48
                  -1
                  Quote: oleg123219307
                  But who lives in these republics themselves, judging by the rhetoric, we are not even close to comrades ...

                  In general, okay - your opinion is your opinion. Just from a historical point of view, I will note that of all the Caucasian peoples, Russia had the least problems and problems with the Armenians ... hi
                  1. Oleg123219307
                    Oleg123219307 17 October 2020 16: 15
                    0
                    Quote: Misha Honest
                    Quote: oleg123219307
                    But who lives in these republics themselves, judging by the rhetoric, we are not even close to comrades ...

                    In general, okay - your opinion is your opinion. Just from a historical point of view, I will note that of all the Caucasian peoples, Russia had the least problems and problems with the Armenians ... hi

                    I do not pretend to be the ultimate truth. I just read opinions about us from both sides, it becomes disgusting and I want to wish only to sort it out ourselves and that's it.
                    1. Misha Honest
                      Misha Honest 17 October 2020 22: 17
                      0
                      Quote: oleg123219307
                      I just read opinions about us from both sides, it becomes disgusting and I want to wish only to figure it out for ourselves and that's it.

                      While they will figure it out "on their own", the Turks, Pin-do-si and Pakistanis will figure it out for them ...
                    2. Oleg123219307
                      Oleg123219307 18 October 2020 11: 10
                      0
                      Quote: Misha Honest
                      Quote: oleg123219307
                      I just read opinions about us from both sides, it becomes disgusting and I want to wish only to figure it out for ourselves and that's it.

                      While they will figure it out "on their own", the Turks, Pin-do-si and Pakistanis will figure it out for them ...

                      And let them then have a headache for it. Why do we need all this?
                    3. Misha Honest
                      Misha Honest 18 October 2020 17: 29
                      0
                      Quote: oleg123219307
                      And let them then have a headache for it. Why do we need all this?

                      And then, that then they will throw all their headache across OUR border ... And this will ALREADY become OUR headache ... lol
                    4. Oleg123219307
                      Oleg123219307 18 October 2020 18: 13
                      0
                      Quote: Misha Honest
                      And then, that then they will throw all their headache across OUR border ... And this will ALREADY become OUR headache ...

                      If all the money that we spend on supporting the allies is directed to the defense industry, if all the billions of dollars that we give in the form of bad loans are given to our military-industrial complex, if all the resources that the allies feed on are given to the General Staff, then in 15-20 years we will have an army capable of not just destroying, but capturing the United States without fatal losses ...
                    5. Misha Honest
                      Misha Honest 18 October 2020 18: 20
                      0
                      Quote: oleg123219307
                      then in 15-20 years

                      Only here we do not have a normal ruler, just as there is no nifig at all! sad GDP has already brought the country to a state of confusion ... And you and I can't change this ... In '14 it was necessary to take the ENTIRE suburb and not stupid .... And now, thanks to the same ruler, we are in the ass! The country is a gas station! When we had super-science and brains in the USSR ...
                    6. Oleg123219307
                      Oleg123219307 18 October 2020 18: 34
                      0
                      Quote: Misha Honest
                      Only here we do not have a normal ruler, just as there is no nifig at all! GDP has already brought the country to a state of confusion ... And you and I can't change this ... In '14 it was necessary to take the ENTIRE suburb and not stupid .... And now, thanks to the same ruler, we are in the ass! The country is a gas station! When we had super-science and brains in the USSR ...

                      Not everything is so sad, in principle, our economy and industry are alive, but on the whole I agree with you. The current government is normal for peacetime, and until 2008, everything was fine with expensive oil. But they didn't know what to do in truly deep crises, so out of habit they continued to make money. What we see today is the result of this process. About 14 years old - you must have heard about one curious call from a "neutral" country, after which the ready-to-launch plan of what you are talking about went under the rug. And this is also a consequence of playing by the rules. We need time. 15-20 years old. And the Emperor. Who does not care about laws, who cares about money, who cares about international law, the Geneva conventions and human rights. Do not give a damn only to the Power and the People. One who does not hesitate to send 10 million snickering officials to factories. Does not hesitate to prepare an army of 10 million people. Do not hesitate to take away ALL big business, and send its income to the treasury and not to your pocket. Under which an official who dares to steal at least a ruble will be welded alive in oil for the amusement of the public, and not house arrest and his own art galleries. Then yes, then there will be something to talk about ...
  • alexmach
    alexmach 16 October 2020 00: 57
    -4
    In your opinion, should we help one of the sides, or remain demonstratively neutral, and what outcome of the war seems to you most in line with our interests?

    Neutrality and freezing of the situation for another 30 years.
    Or a peaceful settlement, with the annexation of Karabakh to Armenia, bringing in Russian peacekeepers and leaving them with a ground connection with Armenia, and demilitarizing the line of contact.
  • 9PA
    9PA 16 October 2020 05: 59
    0
    Demonstrative neutrality (the CSTO has nothing to do with the NKR, a demonstration of Armenia's position on friendship and partnership), the maximum protraction of the conflict in the current situation, the creation of organizations on the territory of the NKR similar to the bearded Turkish people, a permanent threat to the gas transportation system of Baku
  • Hort
    Hort 15 October 2020 15: 26
    +4
    Yes. curious.
    It would be interesting to see how much Turkey's rhetoric would change if it were outside the NATO bloc soldier
    It seems that Erdogan therefore allows himself to climb wherever he pleases, because he knows that the rear will be covered by the obligations of the bloc member states.
    1. Gado
      Gado 15 October 2020 15: 51
      +2
      It seems that Erdogan therefore allows himself to climb wherever he pleases, because he knows that the rear will be covered by the obligations of the bloc member states.

      The rear is not covered in any way, the NATO countries will not help him, because Erdogan climbs himself, without asking anyone. And it will come back to haunt him.
    2. Vladimir_6
      Vladimir_6 15 October 2020 16: 07
      +3
      Quote: hort
      It would be interesting to see how much Turkey's rhetoric would change if it were outside the NATO bloc

      Erdogan does not stand on ceremony with NATO members either.
      In response to Macron's remark that Turkey is no longer a partner in the Mediterranean, Erdogan advised Macron: "Don't mess with Turkey and the Turkish people."
      “You cannot teach us humanity,” Erdogan stressed, recalling the Algerian war for independence and the genocide in Rwanda, which led to more than a million deaths, whose blood, according to the Turkish leader, is in the hands of the French leadership.
      In 2017, Erdogan accused Berlin of supporting international terrorism and demanded to organize a trial for the German authorities.
      1. Hort
        Hort 15 October 2020 16: 10
        0
        but nevertheless, as far as I know, there is no legal mechanism for expelling anyone from NATO in the bloc. This is what he uses
        1. Vladimir_6
          Vladimir_6 15 October 2020 17: 13
          0
          Quote: hort
          but nevertheless, so far there is no legal mechanism for excluding anyone from NATO in the bloc

          It is not profitable for the Anglo-Saxons to exclude Turkey from NATO. You never know who the Sultan will join. So they endure his antics.
          1. Hort
            Hort 15 October 2020 17: 38
            0
            here it is not even a matter of profit, but as far as I have heard, in the absence of such an opportunity in the documents (Charter of the organization).
            Otherwise, the United States would have had leverage on the Turks on the same issue with the purchase of the S-300, for example
            1. Vladimir_6
              Vladimir_6 15 October 2020 18: 24
              +1
              Quote: hort
              here it is not even a matter of profit, but as far as I have heard, in the absence of such an opportunity in the documents (Charter of the organization).

              In 1966, France withdrew from NATO. Although she had some kind of agreement with the bloc, in case of aggression from the USSR.
              1. begemot20091
                begemot20091 16 October 2020 15: 29
                0
                France is the country that together with the Czechs saved Hitler until the last minute. And the Czechs were almost the main smith of the Nazis' weapons. And today they are trying to teach the Belarusians who were burned by participating together with the Nazis in punitive operations. so, God save these friends. Sold, got money from them and hell. And they vyaknuli in the direction of Russia, blocked the flight over our territory, let them fly through France and then through Africa.
              2. Hort
                Hort 26 October 2020 10: 54
                0
                they voluntarily left NATO. And I mean the possibility of forced exclusion
  • venik
    venik 15 October 2020 16: 12
    +3
    Quote: The same Lech
    Here is another interesting look at the current situation in Karabakh.
    http://agitpro.su/azerbajdzhan-dobilsya-v-karabaxe-novoj-voennoj-realnosti/?utm_source=warfiles.ru

    ========
    Interesting article! And clearly written by an expert, and by no means "sofa" .....
    1. Sergei Sovetkin
      Sergei Sovetkin 15 October 2020 16: 23
      -2
      So, what do we have today? Everything is going exactly as I predicted in the very first days of the fighting, after it became known about the full support of Azerbaijan by Turkey and its wide and successful use of drones to defeat the equipment of the Armenian forces in Karabakh. Aliyev takes an unambiguous position, and no Putin can do anything about it. And he is not capable, and he will not be. Talk about some peacekeepers and the cessation of fighting will remain talk in favor of the poor. Moreover, Azerbaijan will not allow any Russians in the role of peacekeepers. This is out of the question in Baku. Political support for Armenia is completely absent from both Russia and the West. Apparently, Pashinyan had some hopes to support the independence of Nagorno-Karabakh following the example of Kosovo. But after Crimea and Donbass, the EU policy towards such self-proclaimed territories, and even with the wars going on there, changed. And then there is also a UN resolution. And in vain Armenia has already grabbed seven regions there. This one was clearly redundant. In general, the Armenian Foreign Ministry miscalculated, or rather, displayed professional incompetence. Plus, the calculation for the support of Russia and the CSTO was also wrong. They will not come to the rescue, even if Baku will bomb Yerevan in response to attacks on Azerbaijani cities. Maximum, express indignation. Yes, and within the society there is fatigue from the zo-year tension in connection with the NKR. And the people, apparently, are not very eager to go to war. Young people do not want to die at the front, and no patriotism works today. An attempt to play the religious card and the Islamic threat to the Orthodox world and even to the entire Christian civilization from pan-Turkism and aggressive Turkey led by the new Sultan Erdogan, I think, will also have no effect. Pashinyan will not be able to organize and lead a new crusade.
      And an extremely negative effect on the image of Yerevan was affected by its shelling of peaceful cities on the territory of Azerbaijan with a completely non-precision weapon still of Soviet production. As a result, peaceful people died. Pashinyan organized the repeated crimes for himself the case for the tribunal. And he turned the West away from Armenia. And against this background, on the contrary, Aliyev looks very dignified. So the stick turned out to be double edged with these missile attacks on cities. And the unexploded Tochka-U missiles gave a special flavor to these strikes.
      And a separate story with the military and the army of Armenia. Here, too, a complete failure. What they did there for 30 years is called lying on the stove. We slept through everything. And they just missed the enemy's activities to modernize the army and prepare it for war. Apparently, not taking the Azerbaijanis seriously on the battlefield, they relied on the difficult mountainous terrain and created defensive positions. The General Staff of Armenia showed complete incompetence and did not take into account current trends and changes in the tactics and strategy of wars with the use of precision weapons, primarily drones. Preparing for the last war. And intelligence also did not work about the possible participation of Turkey and the degree of its support for Baku.
      As a result, there is a complete destruction of the equipment of the Armenian forces, depriving them of the ability to make up for losses in equipment and people, the Armenians lack material resources and ammunition for fighting, and the inability to wage long battles in the mountains. Well, and a drop in morale.
      So the defeat of the Armenian units in Nagorno-Karabakh is inevitable. There may be some hesitations, like at Hadrut, but these are nuances and will not affect the overall outcome of the war. A huge preponderance of forces and superiority in the latest weapons systems and their very effective use by the Azerbaijani army will affect.
      As a result, the matter will end with what it should have ended - the Armenian troops will leave Nagorno-Karabakh and the rest of the territory of Armenia. The control border will be restored along its entire length. Aliyev and Erdogan will be on horseback in the literal and figurative sense of the word. But Pashinyan will most likely leave his post, just as the Armenians will leave Nagorno-Karabakh. Relations with Russia will depend on the new prime minister and the mood in the Armenian society after the defeat. There are options.
      This is my impartial evaluative opinion.
      1. cniza
        cniza 15 October 2020 17: 02
        +4
        Time will tell how correct your forecast is ...
        1. Sergei Sovetkin
          Sergei Sovetkin 15 October 2020 18: 17
          -1
          Of course. More precisely, not the time, but the results of the battles. If it is true that the United States is already helping Baku, that they are beating complexes on the territory of Armenia itself, then we can say unequivocally who will win
          1. cniza
            cniza 15 October 2020 21: 01
            +6
            I suspect that everything is decided by completely different players, who are very far from the problems of the conflicting parties, they solve their problems ...
      2. Rubina
        Rubina 15 October 2020 18: 51
        -2
        Thanks for the honest analysis. I am from Baku. I agree with everything.
        1. Sergei Sovetkin
          Sergei Sovetkin 15 October 2020 18: 57
          -1
          Yes, there is only an impartial statement of facts and a sober view of the situation.
      3. karima
        karima 15 October 2020 19: 59
        0
        Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
        This is my impartial evaluative opinion.
        Uv. Sergei Sovetkin. Great, great analysis. There would be more of them. And no matter what I agree with.
      4. Grits
        Grits 16 October 2020 02: 39
        0
        Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
        This is my impartial evaluative opinion.

        Basically agree with you.
      5. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak 16 October 2020 14: 04
        0
        Sergei Sovetkin "In the end, the matter will end as it should have ended - the Armenian troops will leave Nagorno-Karabakh and the rest of Armenia."
        Funny forecast.))) Do you also speak from the rest of Armenia?))))
        1. Sergei Sovetkin
          Sergei Sovetkin 16 October 2020 14: 51
          -1
          And you couldn't read the next proposal to restore control over the border? Immediately pulled to catch a banal mistake? Or do you really not understand what this is about? These are called cheap trolling
  • Yeraz
    Yeraz 16 October 2020 00: 36
    -3
    Quote: The same LYOKHA
    Here is another interesting look at the current situation in Karabakh.

    the feeling that an Armenian wrote this article. Especially the Armenians could have taken Baku in 1994))) But Hadrut has already been taken and Fizuli will most likely be taken by 18.
  • iouris
    iouris 15 October 2020 14: 37
    -10 qualifying.
    All discussions of tactical issues are meaningless. No one will win - everyone has already lost, the United States will come, the "leaders" of the two "states" will be removed, they will hit Iran, then they will go down the mountain and slowly ... the whole herd.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 15 October 2020 14: 41
      +5
      Quote: iouris
      No one will win - everyone has already lost, the United States will come, the "leaders" of the two "states" will be removed, they will hit Iran, then they will go down the mountain and slowly ... the whole herd.

      What ? belay belay belay
      Where is that tall oak tree from which you fell?
      1. iouris
        iouris 15 October 2020 15: 17
        -2
        There are only stumps around. Where can you collapse?
        1. Beringovsky
          Beringovsky 15 October 2020 18: 35
          +6
          Actually, it's a very sensible calculation. If the Armenians lose, they may well turn their backs on Russia. They will urge us to leave the premises and invite NATO, i.e. Americans.
          Then Iran will also be surrounded from the North. A very sensible plan.
          1. Oquzyurd
            Oquzyurd 16 October 2020 00: 21
            +2
            I think that if the Armenians are against the Russian base, then I admit that this moment is stipulated so that Azerbaijan will give the go-ahead to place the Russian base in Khankendi (Stepanakert) itself, or in Lachin, and the Armenians will be punished for this once again, for example, by breaking the road from Zangilan to the Nakhchivan territory. But this is the case scenario if in Armenia they completely surrender to the West.
          2. begemot20091
            begemot20091 16 October 2020 15: 40
            +2
            If the Armenians kill them, they will be slaughtered like sheep. remember Syria. so they will run to us. why will they not create the 1,2,3,4th cavalry, that is, the 1,2,3,4th Armenian armies (volunteer) and forward, from Moscow, Rostov, Anapa, Sochi .. to defend the sovereignty of the country Armenia ... At the bazaars, the masters scream, and fight the Russians ??? Your country, protect it if it is dear to you. Call for reinforcements from France, USA. They brought Pashinyan to power. So you will meet the Turks face to face. Explain the essence of the historical moments. Just leave us alone. In the 90s you loved Rusaks "passionately" - the Russians barely carried their feet from the Caucasus. now it's your turn to make history (no longer according to Sores). - it's not about running around the Maidans with a backpack. So you will see all the corruption, who will run where from the country.
            1. lelik613
              lelik613 16 October 2020 17: 40
              0
              "passionately" loved

              By the way, there was a hushed up muddy story about the terrorist attacks in electric trains and the Armenian soldiers caught for this. It seems in Dagestan.
    2. credo
      credo 15 October 2020 15: 28
      +2
      Quote: iouris
      All discussions of tactical issues are meaningless. No one will win - everyone has already lost, the United States will come, the "leaders" of the two "states" will be removed, they will hit Iran, then they will go down the mountain and slowly ... the whole herd.

      By the way, for all the seeming absurdity of your opinion, it still contains a rational grain, though not for the disputing parties, but for the United States.
      An analogy suggests itself following the example with the province of Kosovo in Serbia.
      Imagine that the Anglo-Saxons knocked out the Armenians, Turks and Azerbaijanis to start today's war, which is quite feasible, given that both Pashinyan and Aliyev and Erdogan are sufficiently controlled by the United States.
      The war is going on, there is no result, the peacekeeping efforts of Russia are ignored by the parties to the conflict, bloodshed among the civilian population is growing and at the same time no one wants to give in to anyone, since both sides are fueled by weapons and ammunition.
      And here on the "stage" are the United States with the EU in white gloves and with "pacifying" proposals, in the person of some Balts or Scandinavians - independence for Karabakh, all the regions around it to Azerbaijan, and Armenia has a donut in the form of future accession to the EU, NATO and help with money.
      It seems like everyone is satisfied, especially the Anglo-Saxons, because the next step will be the construction of a huge US military base on the territory of Karabakh with control over the entire Caucasus, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Russia and the Caspian Sea.

      So I regard your assumption as quite real to myself, although at first glance it seems to be nonsense. But this is only at first glance.
      1. iouris
        iouris 15 October 2020 21: 42
        -2
        Quote: credo
        But this is only at first glance.

        And on the second too.
    3. Vladimir_6
      Vladimir_6 15 October 2020 15: 32
      +1
      Quote: iouris
      All discussions of tactical issues are meaningless. No one will win - everyone has already lost, the United States will come, the "leaders" of the two "states" will be removed, they will hit Iran, then they will go down the mountain and slowly ... the whole herd.

      The US has elections in November. Trump expressed a wish for the parties to the conflict to sit down at the negotiating table.
      If there are no visible movements of Russia in this conflict, this does not mean that Russia is doing nothing.
  • kotdavin4i
    kotdavin4i 15 October 2020 14: 37
    13
    When Paulus was surrounded at Stalingrad, he was made a field marshal. I agree, it may not be entirely correct to compare, but the analogy suggests itself ...
    1. iouris
      iouris 15 October 2020 15: 16
      -2
      Lavrov was recently awarded the title of Hero. "
  • Glory1974
    Glory1974 15 October 2020 14: 41
    +2
    At the same time, opinions on this matter were divided. In Armenia and NKR themselves, many believe that conferring the rank of lieutenant general on the Artsakh defense minister will raise the morale of the military personnel at the front. Others believe that at the moment the assignment of military ranks is inappropriate - against the background of the most difficult situation at the front.

    At Stalingrad, Paulus was also awarded the rank of field marshal. Hitler, when congratulating him, said that never in history had a German field marshal been captured.
    I don’t want to be ironic about the awarding of the title. I would like to once again remember the story and the words: "What was under the sun will be. Nothing new in this world."
  • novel66
    novel66 15 October 2020 14: 47
    +3
    Others believe that at the moment the assignment of military ranks is inappropriate - against the background of the most difficult situation at the front.
    and this is like Rotmistrova near Prokhorovka - either reward or shoot
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 15 October 2020 15: 09
      +7
      Hello Roman hi Sometimes I just clutch at my heart, from Your "analogies"!
      Tactically, the Armenians need to lure the Azerbaijanis deeper into the Mountains, they simply have no other options. Let's see how they say - we'll find out soon!
      1. novel66
        novel66 15 October 2020 15: 13
        +5
        Hi Lesha! hi somehow, it seems, they were greatly carried away by enticing, somewhere they need to stop
        1. Hunter 2
          Hunter 2 15 October 2020 15: 22
          11
          Having a little understanding of the B / D in the mountainous terrain, seeing the total superiority of Azerbaijanis in armament, I can say one thing ... the Armenians need a war, as they say, "nose to nose" with the ability to act in small groups, planning "tactical encirclements" with large forces. The Armenians have a chance to stop the B / D, only one - the number of 200 and 300 from the Azerbaijani side. Losing a few villages that only affect the info field is not a loss in the War. My opinion, somewhere will resist, if they are not surrendered by their own magpie.
          1. novel66
            novel66 15 October 2020 15: 32
            +5
            that's the question - do they have officers with your level of training?
            1. Hunter 2
              Hunter 2 15 October 2020 15: 38
              +8
              Roma - I am a resident of the plain, I studied the Mountains “right off the bat” - they live there and know every ledge, crevice and goat path.
              Many Armenians studied at our universities at one time, I do not know - with Pashinyan's policy - whether they take part in planning at least "local" operations. This little pork has managed to get a lot of stuff in the Army.
              1. Krest
                Krest 15 October 2020 16: 23
                -3
                Quote: Hunter 2
                This little pork has managed to "nag" a lot in the Army.

                A lot and behaves like the last ... On the way, the western Cossacks sent in!
                He will surrender Karabakh and then Armenia .. And she is in the CSTO! We'll have to get in, God forbid ... Alexei things are coming and there is no rest for us, not at night, not during the day ... hi
                1. Hunter 2
                  Hunter 2 15 October 2020 16: 29
                  +4
                  Quote: Krest
                  Quote: Hunter 2
                  This little pork has managed to "nag" a lot in the Army.

                  A lot and behaves like the last ... On the way, the western Cossacks sent in!
                  He will surrender Karabakh and then Armenia .. And she is in the CSTO! We'll have to get in, God forbid ... Alexei things are coming and there is no rest for us, not at night, not during the day ... hi

                  First, let the Armenian diaspora harness for them! They can flood Armenia with both loot and human resources (even professional "dogs of War"). We will conduct Observation! soldier
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 15 October 2020 17: 01
                    +3
                    Hi Aleksey!
                    They have professional dogs of war only from Lebanon and Syria (the remnants of Asala and fights a little in the ranks of the Nazis SSNP and Assad's SAA). Where did they get the experience of war in the mountains?
                    1. Hunter 2
                      Hunter 2 15 October 2020 17: 06
                      +4
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      Hi Aleksey!
                      They have professional dogs of war only from Lebanon and Syria (the remnants of Asala and fights a little in the ranks of the Nazis SSNP and Assad's SAA). Where did they get the experience of war in the mountains?

                      Hi Albert! hi
                      If you have Armenian money, you can hire anyone! Provide “local” guides - and voila! Buy any Weapon you like! Even in Russia! Only bad luck, the Armenian diasporas are in no hurry to share their money.
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 October 2020 17: 10
                        +4
                        I agree that since the beginning of hostilities, only about 100 million tanks have been transferred. During the 1973 war, the Jews collected 2.5 billion tanks for Israel in three weeks - I always thought that the Armenians with their Caucasian mentality would be more generous. At least our Galitsky (Harutyunyan) spent (and still, in my opinion, is spent) on his native Krasnodar from the heart.
                      2. Hunter 2
                        Hunter 2 15 October 2020 17: 13
                        +3
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        I agree that since the beginning of hostilities, only about 100 million tanks have been transferred. During the 1973 war, the Jews collected 2.5 billion tanks for Israel in three weeks - I always thought that the Armenians with their Caucasian mentality would be more generous.

                        It turns out that the Armenians are much more tight-fisted !!! And here on VO - all the Jews are scolded belay
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 October 2020 17: 14
                        +4
                        As for elite wheelbarrows and jewelery, Jews are definitely the tight-fisted Armenians laughing
                      4. Hunter 2
                        Hunter 2 15 October 2020 17: 19
                        +4
                        But the priest Kardashian - can occupy at least a quarter of the territory of Israel, if along. Crosswise, I think much more! laughing
                      5. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 October 2020 17: 21
                        +4
                        By the way - the priest is not a priest, but a million of Baku money for the war, And across it will cover the Palestinian Autonomy laughing
                      6. Hunter 2
                        Hunter 2 15 October 2020 17: 24
                        +3
                        With more than a billion dollars? This was spent lol
                      7. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 October 2020 17: 25
                        +6
                        Where did the Kardashians get a billion? laughing Maybe rubles? Although yes - right. 2,9 billion tanks - I just looked at Forbes. Redneck!
                      8. Hunter 2
                        Hunter 2 15 October 2020 17: 27
                        +3
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Where did the Kardashians get a billion? laughing Maybe rubles?

                        Googled ... yes there are over $ 2 billion!
                      9. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 October 2020 17: 29
                        +5
                        I have already seen - 2,9 billion. You're right, redneck.
                      10. Oquzyurd
                        Oquzyurd 16 October 2020 00: 32
                        +3
                        I did not know and did not even fantasize that with this place you could earn more than the wells of an Arab sheikh)
              2. Oquzyurd
                Oquzyurd 16 October 2020 00: 28
                +2
                She earned her relatives, for the motherland)
              3. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 October 2020 02: 40
                +3
                She is a talented girl, earned primarily by brains, but she is a redneck.
    2. LiSiCyn
      LiSiCyn 15 October 2020 22: 50
      +4
      Quote: Krasnodar
      At least our Galitsky (Harutyunyan) spent (and still, in my opinion, is spent) on his native Krasnodar from the heart.

      I think Galitsky will not advertise his support. Not in his best interest. And so yes, the help from the diaspora is minimal. Diaspora-wide.
    3. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 16 October 2020 02: 44
      +3
      There is also an internal division going on - into Hayestan, Lebanese, Russian, American, French. Inside the Khayestans in Yerevan, Karabakh, etc. Inside Russian - in Sochi, Moscow and others. It's not easy, some subgroups do not like each other.
  • Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 15 October 2020 15: 40
    +3
    Well, the methods of conducting both partisan and counter-partisan War in the mountains - in our universities they understood thoroughly, and believe me - there was someone and something to teach. Afgan's experience alone is worth it!
    1. Sergei Sovetkin
      Sergei Sovetkin 15 October 2020 16: 28
      -1
      Will you hold out for a long time in the mountains in the cold, without equipment and ammunition? And keep in mind that Turkey is at war with the Kurds in the mountains more than our Afghan. So experience has. Nothing shines for Armenians. A question of time from the exodus from Karabakh
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 15 October 2020 16: 36
        +5
        Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
        Will you hold out for a long time in the mountains in the cold, without equipment and ammunition? And keep in mind that Turkey is at war with the Kurds in the mountains more than our Afghan. So experience has. Nothing shines for Armenians. A question of time from the exodus from Karabakh

        I repeat, these regions have been under Armenian control for 26 years. I think there are caches and prepared Bases. With adequately prepared equipment, ammunition and infrastructure. With the locals - who know these mountains like the back of their hand ... until you get tired! yes
        Turks with Kurds - are they at war in Nagorno-Karabakh? laughing There are no identical mountains! The success of the action in the mountains is the attraction of the Local population. All animal trails, climbing routes cannot be plotted on more than one map ... and you cannot see them from drones.
        1. Sergei Sovetkin
          Sergei Sovetkin 15 October 2020 18: 25
          -1
          Your mistake is that you are stuck in the last century. And judge by the experience of the wars of the last century, with the use of weapons and technologies available at that time. So the Armenians argued in the same way, for sure. And there is a big difference between Afghans, the Soviet army and the current Armenian soldiers. Both in morale and in the ability to endure the hardships and hardships of war. And about the caches, I also strongly doubt. They apparently did not prepare anything, for they did not expect the current turn of events.
          1. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 15 October 2020 18: 46
            +7
            Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
            Your mistake is that you are stuck in the last century. And judge by the experience of the wars of the last century, with the use of weapons and technologies available at that time. So the Armenians argued in the same way, for sure. And there is a big difference between Afghans, the Soviet army and the current Armenian soldiers. Both in morale and in the ability to endure the hardships and hardships of war. And about the caches, I also strongly doubt. They apparently did not prepare anything, for they did not expect the current turn of events.

            I do not know where you are stuck, especially since I see that you do not understand anything about waging the War in the mountains. Where is the vaunted NATO in Afghanistan? At the block posts. Who controls the Mountains? Unlike you - I felt it myself ... and not in the past, but in the current century. Well, your thesis about the difference between Afghan soldiers, the Soviet Army and today's Armenian soldiers is generally incomprehensible to me!
            You just twist other people's words. I talked about Thorough knowledge of the area (defined) and the opportunities that it (area) provides. Well, where does the "knowledge" about the preparedness of mountain shelters, caches, etc. by Armenians come from - I do not understand at all. If they go to the mountains, we'll see everything. Further, I consider it inappropriate to conduct a dialogue with you.
            1. Sergei Sovetkin
              Sergei Sovetkin 15 October 2020 19: 04
              -4
              Here I agree with you - I also think it inappropriate to continue the conversation with the deaf. And as someone rightly said here - time will tell. I will add, and the results of the battles and the results of this whole war. True, I doubt that you will have the courage to later admit that I am right. By the way, if suddenly something goes wrong, I will be ready to admit my delusions
            2. Sergei Sovetkin
              Sergei Sovetkin 15 October 2020 19: 05
              -3
              Yes, and we have already entered the mountains.
            3. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 15 October 2020 20: 36
              +7
              The mountains are very difficult terrain. Aviation is less effective there, as well as artillery. What's the use of diving drones when the fire is fired from a bunker carved into the rock? for instance laughing
              Three of these bunkers can control some important road with fire for a very long time, ammunition can be delivered to them through tunnels, etc. Warehouses, caches, targeted crossroads and road junctions, gorges - a booth!
              They need specially prepared units, the war is fought with legs, with a load on the back and in the hands, in short ... a minimum of innovation
            4. Sergei Sovetkin
              Sergei Sovetkin 15 October 2020 21: 03
              -4
              No, the Armenians thought so too. And they waited for the Azerbaijanis to crawl up the slopes, and they would mow them down. And they forgot that there are high-precision weapons that easily fall into the window from a few kilometers. They will burn out all these mountains and that's it. And they will go further.
            5. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 15 October 2020 21: 48
              +5
              So the war is still going on, mostly in the valleys - in the mountains it has just begun. Unmanned aerial vehicles in the mountains can only work on transport and all kinds of open batteries. Look at the footage of the use of UAVs in Afghanistan - you will understand everything. People are provoked to fire contact - only then they are used. Each fire contact potentially entails losses to the initiating party. Therefore, everything is rather complicated.
    2. LiSiCyn
      LiSiCyn 15 October 2020 23: 02
      +5
      Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
      And judge by the experience of the wars of the last century, with the use of weapons and technologies available at that time.

      Have you been to the mountains yourself? And, as comrade Hunter correctly noted, the mountains are different ... Not only are they different in height, but also in nature, structure, humidity, and all these factors can affect the course of the database. For locals, it's always easier. They know water sources, where and how to find food. Newcomers have to find out using the "scientific poke" method ... Will Azerbaijan have enough human resources for such a method?
      1. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl 16 October 2020 19: 23
        +3
        Quote: LiSiCyn
        LiSiCyn
        ?! the very same our pilotthat brought them down with "Phantom" (from the song) ?! Personally ?! . belay do not be offended for God's sake, - Stas, I just wanted "dilute the sharpening of the topic" ... and I remembered the song of the ChIZh group when I saw the nickname ... lol good
      2. LiSiCyn
        LiSiCyn 16 October 2020 20: 01
        +4
        Vladimir. hi
        Quote: Vl Nemchinov
        the same pilot who shot them down with the Phantom

        A big fan of the same pilot and song ... wink
        Quote: Vl Nemchinov
        I just wanted to "dilute the focus of the topic"

        No hard feelings ... No. The fact is that the opponent does not quite represent the DB in the mountains. And, perhaps, I saw the mountains only in the picture. I grew up in the Tien Shan region. Po did not have to fight, but his friends participated in Tajikistan, Afghanistan, and the Caucasus. So I kind of know. Well, my own experience. The UAVs that the author advertises in such a way will not be as effective in the mountains. And getting them is easier in the mountains.
      3. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl 16 October 2020 20: 03
        +1
        Quote: LiSiCyn
        A big fan of the same pilot and song ...
        glad you understood me correctly yes drinks
  • chingachguc
    chingachguc 15 October 2020 19: 59
    +2
    the local population will leave everything during the occupation. the mountains will stand empty ... and the Azerbaijanis, I doubt that they will want to return. Is that the riffraff is different under the state. subsidies and maintenance ...
  • K-612-O
    K-612-O 15 October 2020 15: 41
    +6
    That is, in the mountains there will no longer be such an advantage in aviation, and it is easier to cover the advancing troops with artillery. Plus, the effectiveness of small groups in ambushes increases. Afghan and Chechnya have proven this perfectly.
    And to the question about "noble" askers (18+): link
    https://t.me/sskarnaukhov/3039
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 15 October 2020 15: 44
      +5
      Quote: K-612-O
      That is, in the mountains there will no longer be such an advantage in aviation, and it is easier to cover the advancing troops with artillery. Plus, the effectiveness of small groups in ambushes increases. Afghan and Chechnya have proven this perfectly.
      And to the question about "noble" askers (18+): link
      https://t.me/sskarnaukhov/3039

      It is true, there is more DEFINITELY knowledge of the terrain playing, which will allow you to transfer your own forces in any direction Instantly, and competently arrange ambushes! soldier
      1. karima
        karima 15 October 2020 20: 10
        +2
        Quote: Hunter 2
        Surely, there is more DEFINITELY knowledge of the terrain plays there, which will allow you to transfer your own forces in any direction Instantly, and competently arrange ambushes!
        I dare to object. So far, the Azerbaijanis are not going anywhere. And if they have enough patience, they will not climb. And if they planned so, then they would be honored for this layout.
        1. LiSiCyn
          LiSiCyn 15 October 2020 23: 18
          +5
          Quote: karima
          While the Azerbaijanis are not going where they should not. And if they have enough patience, they will not climb.

          It is not for nothing that Karabakh is called Nagorny. If they want to take, they have to go to the mountains. Even the Turks cannot cope with the Kurds in the mountains. With all the technical superiority. And the mountains are there, lower and warmer.
  • Krest
    Krest 15 October 2020 15: 23
    0
    Quote: Hunter 2
    Tactically, the Armenians need to lure the Azerbaijanis deeper into the Mountains, they simply have no other options. Let's see how they say - we'll find out soon!

    And better to Iran ..))))
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 15 October 2020 17: 05
      +2
      The Persians said that Karabakh should be given to Azerbaijan. They have a couple of tens of millions of Azerbaijanis, and the Persians do not want a war with Turkey - at least not because of the Armenians.
  • askort154
    askort154 15 October 2020 14: 54
    0
    Which grouping of troops may be surrounded in the Fizuli area: a dispute of experts on the situation in Karabakh

    What to argue about if there is only one "grouping" in the photo for the article. belay
    1. MTN
      MTN 15 October 2020 16: 04
      -2
      Quote: askort154
      What to argue about if there is only one "grouping" in the photo for the article.

      they have Russians in reserve. which you can offend, threaten that they will expel the base, close the Russian TV, but at the same time ...... use when necessary.

      1. Ulrih
        Ulrih 15 October 2020 16: 51
        +1
        Throw the same photo 20 again ... /
        By the way, there is nothing like that in it - a normal real-political politician.
        1. MTN
          MTN 15 October 2020 16: 53
          +1
          Quote: Ulrih
          By the way, there is nothing like that in it - a normal real-political politician.

          If this is normal for you, then No comments
          1. Ulrih
            Ulrih 15 October 2020 16: 59
            +1
            What's not normal here? For the Armenians, the situation is probably close to critical. Of course they would like to get help. What's bad about it? In the very fact.
            1. Grits
              Grits 16 October 2020 03: 27
              -1
              Quote: Ulrih
              Of course they would like to get help.

              And help will not come. Pashinyan and the Armenians jumping for him on the Yerevan Maidan did everything for this. Finita la comedy.
  • Ulrih
    Ulrih 15 October 2020 15: 10
    +2
    I doubt that the new rank that is given to someone in the high command somehow worried the fighters on the front line and somehow influenced the spirit of the fighters. Except for such cases as with Napoleon's marshals at the coronation, but then mercy was poured not only on them about the creation of the Empire.

    And the analogy with Paulus is a little out of place - he was awarded already when the 6th army was in the "cauldron" and in recent days, just with a special wording. Immediately, the advantage at the moment is probably on the side of Azerbaijan, but it is not yet known how far it is to a radical turn.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • FerrariStradale
    FerrariStradale 15 October 2020 15: 26
    +3
    Armenia looks too helpless.
    The Azrbj General Staff from the north launched a fake attack in order to keep the Armenians in suspense and prevent them from redirecting forces to the South. But in the South there is already a real breakthrough.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 15 October 2020 17: 12
      +5
      In my opinion, they will soon embed in the center
      1. Oquzyurd
        Oquzyurd 16 October 2020 00: 40
        0
        Most likely. They got the peaceful villages opposite their positions. Every day they hit the population with art. We deliberately did not climb there in order to avoid losses (too open area) but for one thing to stop their forces waiting for an attack.
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT 15 October 2020 15: 45
    -4
    This is of course interesting, but then infa slipped through that flights from Kabul to Baku with American warriors began to run, say self-propelled gunners with escaliburs. Think about Israel with intelligence, Turks with drones, Americans with Excaliburs.
    So most likely the Armenians will not be lucky
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 15 October 2020 17: 13
      +2
      Maybe shaved with Excaliburs? King Arthur and so on?
      1. JonnyT
        JonnyT 15 October 2020 19: 31
        +1
        Our red snake is an analogue of Excalibur.
        Excaliburs will endure the Arta of the Armenians
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 15 October 2020 19: 44
          +2
          So Excalibur 155 mm - Azerbaijanis, in my opinion, have all the art 152
    2. Grits
      Grits 16 October 2020 03: 31
      -1
      Quote: JonnyT
      So most likely the Armenians will not be lucky

      And the magpie hoped for them so ... The Poles did not help ...
  • jovanni
    jovanni 15 October 2020 16: 02
    +2
    .... In Armenia and NKR themselves, many believe that conferring the rank of lieutenant general on the Artsakh Defense Minister will raise the morale of the servicemen at the front.

    Well, maybe all the private corporal? ...
  • opuonmed
    opuonmed 15 October 2020 16: 16
    +1
    The Russian Federation has to do something there already from all over the world, terrorists are being pulled together!
  • Livonetc
    Livonetc 15 October 2020 16: 23
    0
    Quote: MTN
    Quote: askort154
    What to argue about if there is only one "grouping" in the photo for the article.

    they have Russians in reserve. which you can offend, threaten that they will expel the base, close the Russian TV, but at the same time ...... use when necessary.


    And you have Russia in stock.
    Contact us.
    Your guys will stop dying.
    Or do you think sending mercenaries will save your guys and achieve your goal?
    Azerbaijan has failed another military action to return Karabakh.
    Next time, the Armenians will be much more seriously prepared.
    The Armenian "foreign country" will not lie down, but it will add connections and accounts to the situation.
    But Azerbaijan can accept sanctions and taste the color revolution.
    The hereditary line will be interrupted, and, at the helm of Azerbaijan, a latent or explicit magpie may become.
    Contact the Russian Federation before it's too late.
    However, a video of the shooting of Armenian militias in Hadrut has already appeared.
    Before that, there was a video of these militias being taken prisoner with the caption "Azerbaijani special forces taking prisoners"
    One of them is just an old man.
    I will not spread it.
    Everything is shitty ...
    1. MTN
      MTN 15 October 2020 22: 12
      -3
      Quote: Livonetc
      thinking of sending mercenaries

      Quote: Livonetc
      Azerbaijan fails another military action

      Gooospooooody change the record ... ... ......
  • TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 15 October 2020 17: 37
    +1
    I would like to remind the author of the Barvenkovo ​​"cauldron" of 42. There, the Red Army also thought that they had surrounded them.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Nadrub
    Nadrub 15 October 2020 18: 59
    +6
    Quote: MTN
    Quote: Truth
    now there are just Armenians and Azerbaijanis and both are standing

    George, can you tell us why Azerbaijan did not please you?


    It takes a very long time to tell (and I don’t want to particularly remember this period ...)
    In a nutshell ... I was born and lived in Baku, my ancestors (Molokans) lived in Azerbaijan for almost 200 years! from the time of exile under Catherine II, and then we (these are only close relatives of 2 people) lost everything .... well remembered for the rest of my life as in the maternity hospital (a friend asked to pick her up) a nurse midwife (Azerbona) hissed that it was necessary to strangle Russian babies like the Azerbaijanis put an elderly half-blind Armenian teacher in the trunk and went to exchange for prisoners, we went to save ... it was impossible to go beyond the yard or the district, because in the district, it seems, most knew each other, but everything quickly began to change, normal intelligent Bakuvians all left, and the city was flooded with ingots and meimuns, seized the apartments of the Armenians of the Jews (moreover, having lists on hand where in which house and apartment which family lives) something like this ... I still softly described everything
    And then Russia goes nowhere and without anything ... floundering survived, gray-haired since 25 years old ...

    You can write a whole book ..
    1. Bakinec
      Bakinec 16 October 2020 06: 10
      -6
      And where are the tales about the crucified boy?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • deniso
    deniso 15 October 2020 19: 33
    +2
    Armenia is still sitting on two chairs, to recognize or not to recognize Karabakh is their main problem. Recognize the end. Not recognized, shame.
    Armenia should be given 5 + 2 regions from the security belt without a fight under the guarantees of Azerbaijan and Russia. Introduce the troops of Kazakhstan, Belarus and Russia to the NK. To live in a new reality for 20 years, to return refugees to all regions, to hold elections - to coexist!
    Azerbaijan to moderate its ardor, to show its commitment to dialogue and peaceful coexistence in the liberated territories. It is not for nothing that Baku has been a multinational city at all times.
    There is only one alternative - kill each other and do not fool others.
  • chingachguc
    chingachguc 15 October 2020 19: 53
    +1
    Fizuli seems to have already been occupied ... I think the Armenians will relatively easily surrender the occupied territories - and they will resist as soon as the actual Armenian land begins. It is not the army that is fighting at Hadrut, but the locals, and it is they who show the greatest resilience. In addition, forests begin here ...
  • Victorm
    Victorm 15 October 2020 20: 22
    0
    Quote: oleg123219307
    Remember what Azerbaijan was like during the war in Chechnya ...
    If it doesn't make it difficult, in more detail, what was Azerbaijan like during the war in Chechnya?

    Supplied weapons? Did you supply the militants? Engaged in anti-Russian propaganda? Supported any sanctions against Russia? Didn't hand over the militants at the request of the Russian competent authorities? Etc. etc.?

    The only thing that comes to mind.
    When an officer of the Russian army, an Azerbaijani by nationality, while on vacation in Baku, asked his relative, a high-ranking official of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Azerbaijan, saying what Chechen wounded militants are doing in such and such a hospital, because we ourselves have the problem of separatism in Karabakh. The following dialogue took place:
    - Why are Chechen fighters being treated in Baku?

    - They are not militants. They are citizens of the Russian Federation and they OFFICIALLY crossed the border of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Azerbaijan, if at the same time the Border Troops of the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation did not have ANY QUESTIONS for them, then what questions can we have? They receive PAID medical services, there are no problems with payment, then what complaints can we have against them?

    - But they are militants?

    “They claim that civilians became victims as a result of the fighting, and we have no reason not to believe them, since their Russian border guards and the FSB let them through the border, and did not detain them.

    - Well, this is demagoguery, they could give a bribe, bribe ...

    - If so, then it is a problem for Russia to fight corruption in its border troops or the FSB. We have enough of our own problems and corruption too.

    There were also, by the way, high tales about some special forces battalion of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces "One-Eyed Owl", which, as reported by the Armenian media, according to the RELIABLE Armenian Defense Ministry, which asserted this on the basis of radio intercepts. The war in Chechnya is over, well, tell me now, was there any special forces of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces on the side of the militants? ...

    I would be very grateful if you could tell us something about which I might not know hi If you lied about it, I would be very grateful if you admit this fact and promise not to lie and not work for high-tech propaganda - Armenprop.

    I will once again emphasize HAY - this is the self-name of Armenians.
    1. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 19 October 2020 17: 51
      +1
      If it does not complicate, in more detail, what was Azerbaijan during the war in Chechnya? Supplied weapons? Did you supply the militants? Engaged in anti-Russian propaganda? Supported any sanctions against Russia? Didn't hand over the militants at the request of the Russian competent authorities? Etc. etc.?

      Specifically (too lazy to surf the internet) there were facts that the wounded militants were treated, including in Baku, with their families they lived there. Yes, they rested in Georgia, and in Ukraine, and in Baku too, these are facts.
  • Victorm
    Victorm 15 October 2020 20: 34
    -2
    Quote: denis obuckov
    Armenia is still sitting on two chairs, to recognize or not to recognize Karabakh is their main problem. Recognize the end. Not recognized, shame.
    Armenia should be given 5 + 2 regions from the security belt without a fight under the guarantees of Azerbaijan and Russia. Introduce the troops of Kazakhstan, Belarus and Russia to the NK. To live in a new reality for 20 years, to return refugees to all regions, to hold elections - to coexist!
    Azerbaijan to moderate its ardor, to show its commitment to dialogue and peaceful coexistence in the liberated territories. It is not for nothing that Baku has been a multinational city at all times.
    There is only one alternative - kill each other and do not fool others.

    And who is against?
    Everyone believes that it is better if not tomorrow, even if in 20 years a citizen of Armenia could calmly come to Baku, and a citizen of Azerbaijan to Yerevan. Instead of stupid negotiations going on for another 20-30 years.
  • Victorm
    Victorm 15 October 2020 21: 06
    +1
    Quote: Truth
    Quote: MTN
    Quote: Truth
    now there are just Armenians and Azerbaijanis and both are standing

    George, can you tell us why Azerbaijan did not please you?


    It takes a very long time to tell (and I don’t want to particularly remember this period ...)
    In a nutshell ... I was born and lived in Baku, my ancestors (Molokans) lived in Azerbaijan for almost 200 years! from the time of exile under Catherine II, and then we (these are only close relatives of 2 people) lost everything .... well remembered for the rest of my life as in the maternity hospital (a friend asked to pick her up) a nurse midwife (Azerbona) hissed that it was necessary to strangle Russian babies like the Azerbaijanis put an elderly half-blind Armenian teacher in the trunk and went to exchange for prisoners, we went to save ... it was impossible to go beyond the yard or the district, because in the district, it seems, most knew each other, but everything quickly began to change, normal intelligent Bakuvians all left, and the city was flooded with ingots and meimuns, seized the apartments of the Armenians of the Jews (moreover, having lists on hand where in which house and apartment which family lives) something like this ... I still softly described everything
    And then Russia goes nowhere and without anything ... floundering survived, gray-haired since 25 years old ...

    You can write a whole book ..

    You can write a lot of books. For example, how my relatives from Russia got to Yerevan by distribution, they were kicked out, they came to Ganja, then to Baku. They could not even get help in restoring documents - there are no refugees in the USSR and cannot be ... while the Armenians were and lived everywhere. They, too, went nowhere and came with nothing, with two small children in their arms, there were distant relatives in Baku, they gave shelter. There were HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS like them in Azerbaijan, and then there was Sumgait, then they brought troops into Baku. Yes, there were also pogroms of the ARMENIANS, but not of Russians and Jews, no need to la-la, You are either lying or something "not talking" about yourself. My relatives, like other refugees, occupied an apartment after the fled Armenians.

    You yourself write that an Armenian old woman was taken from your yard TO EXCHANGE FOR Captive , firstly, it means that the Armenians ALREADY took someone "prisoner", and secondly, you lied here again, when the Armenians lived en masse in Baku, there could be no prisoners yet, the Azerbaijanis had not yet fought with the Armenians, but the HOSTAGE of the Armenian gang they took the nationalists.
    Tired of repeating, at that moment the Internal Troops of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs and the OMON of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Azerbaijan SSR fought with the gangs of Armenian nationalists, there were no gangs, "self-defense units" on the Azerbaijani side, even hunting weapons were taken away in Azerbaijan.

    There are many Russians among the National Heroes of Azerbaijan, there are also Jews, but you here, more than falsely sure, are telling everyone about the pogroms and about your gray head.
    Here is a Jew:
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2,_%D0%90%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%82_%D0%90%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
    And here is the attitude of "Azerbians", "Azerbones" to him and how else did you respect your neighbors:


    Well, for reference, my mother is Russian, it is not difficult to guess by my name, we have consistently lived through the development of this conflict in several cities of Azerbaijan and it all passed before my eyes. Many of my classmates, Russians, both lived and live in Baku, someone emigrated to the USA and Canada, Russians work in government structures, and serve in the Armed Forces of Azerbaijan and by the way are fighting now, as everything is shorter, just like we Azerbaijanis we must and serve and fight for Russia.
    I, speaking Azerbaijani colloquial, could not write a single document, while I served in the Azerbaijani Armed Forces, my colleague, Russian, helped me, and then I took a fighter for myself, also a Russian, by the way, a Molokanin, all my documentation was conducted and conducted in Azerbaijani, now in the States, my wife pulled, both IT people. And now I sit here and read high fairy tales from all kinds of "Molokans" ...

    Here are our Molokans.
    1. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny 19 October 2020 17: 55
      +1
      There is no need to get so excited, both sides participated in the pogroms of the 80s - 90s, both sides also participated in the murders of civilians like Khojaly (for example). It's like in the conflicts of the former Yugoslavia. It is clear that you are bending the line for your country, but sometimes you have to be more objective.
  • Oleg123219307
    Oleg123219307 15 October 2020 22: 01
    -2
    Quote: oleg123219307
    Quote: Misha Honest
    If necessary, I can describe in detail what and why - but oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-very lazy ...

    I agree - the way out. Yes, no, everything in general is so clear to everyone who more or less knows history. Thanks for your opinion.
    1. Azimuth
      Azimuth 16 October 2020 08: 32
      0
      Putin will not be harnessed for Pashinyan. Another president will come, and that there will be a different and pro-Russian high probability. During this time, Azeibarjan will take a good piece of land. Aliyev and Putin tacitly solve their problems. And after the elections there will be a peace process. Aliyev, as a winner, will negotiate with the new president of Armenia, and then Russia will also appear as a peacemaker. Look, there will be another 30 years of quiet life in Karabakh.
  • amr
    amr 16 October 2020 15: 39
    +1
    Quote: oleg123219307
    That Turkey for 10 minutes and 50 warheads and they will not be able to oppose anything to this,

    God what are you talking about ??

    with this logic, the entire globe cannot oppose anything to us, we simply bang all our charges on our territory and the whole world will be covered with a copper basin and there is nothing to answer them!

    marasmus!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • well
    well 16 October 2020 16: 37
    -1
    Whom should Russia support?
    Proceeding from the fact that Turkey supports Azerbaijan, and Turkey is our enemy, Russia should support Armenia and Karabakh. But why? Both Azerbaijan and Armenia are states unfriendly to Russia. And whoever won this war, our enemy will rule over Karabakh.
    It is strange that Armenia did not stand up for its compatriots. Taking an example from Russia?
  • Sergei Sovetkin
    Sergei Sovetkin 16 October 2020 19: 37
    -1
    Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
    You are the only one who didn't understand. Everyone understood everything correctly. You couldn't read the next proposal to regain control of the border? Immediately pulled to catch a banal mistake? Or do you really not understand what this is about? These are called cheap trolling
  • Mayor lee
    Mayor lee 17 October 2020 11: 19
    -2
    Fuzuli has already been released)
  • Seal
    Seal 19 October 2020 18: 31
    0
    Quote: oleg123219307
    with a thousand-year history, a warrior is with us, and even one who dared to arrange an open act of war with us is an enemy.
    God be with you, where did you get all this? Where did we get the "thousand-year history of wars" with Turkey ???
    Most of all we fought with the Lithuanians. Since we had a period of feudal fragmentation, and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was a single state, it attacked this or our principality almost every year. Well, our principalities periodically responded with campaigns against the Lithuanians. In total, there were more than 40 Russian-Lithuanian military conflicts. And then not all are counted.
    Then the Poles come. About 20 wars, including their three Polish uprisings, which were steeper in scale than our other war with Turkey (1794 - Kosciuszko uprising; 1830-1831 November uprising; 1863-1864 January uprising).
    Then there are wars with the Swedes. 17 wars, not counting the border conflicts of 1375-1396.
    And only then are the Russian-Turkish wars (12 wars). Moreover, in 8 wars we were the initiators, in 3 - Turkey, and one war (World War I) began, as it were, mutually. First, the provocations of Armenian fideas that crossed from our territory to the territory of Turkey, then the shelling of our coastal cities with ships under Turkish flags, then we declared war on Turkey.
    Yes, I forgot, about how many battles various Russian principalities had with the crusaders - even history does not remember about that.
    By duration, the longest are not Russian-Ottoman, but Russian-Polish wars. In total, we fought with the Poles for over 100 years.
    The bloodiest are the Russian-German wars. In total, the Germans accounted for two world wars - over 30 million lives of our compatriots.
    The Ottomans never made us such tricks as:
    - Swedes after the miserable battle for us at Fraustadt, held on February 2, 1706 (Julian calendar); February 3, 1706 (Swedish calendar); February 13, 1706 (Gregorian calendar) when the victorious Swedes stabbed 4 of our prisoners with cold steel.
    “In the battle of Fraustadt, an incomprehensible, truly bestial cruelty of the Swedes was revealed regarding the Russians. Indeed, in this combined army of the Saxon general Schulenburg, who suffered such a rout, there were Saxons, Poles, and even the French, who served in the Saxon army, and, finally, the Russians. After their victory (February 3, 1706), the Swedish army captured all those who were not killed and did not have time to escape. Everyone except the Russians! "Many Russians were beaten as well, and which of the soldiers were taken to full, and with those the enemy zealously acted mercilessly, according to the royal decree issued before about them, so as not to give them pardon (or mercy), and scolding people 2 and 3 "they stabbed one another with their spears and baguettes (bayonets. - E. T.). In such a barbaric way, the Swedes exterminated 4 thousand disarmed Russian prisoners after the battle." E.V. Tarle, "The Northern War and the Swedish invasion of Russia";

    - Germans who attacked us without declaring war on 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX. The Ottomans, if they themselves started, first, by all the rules, declared war on us, and hostilities began somewhere in half a year after the announcement. And even later.
    - Poles who literally crap Kremlin churches.
    So why should we assume that the Ottomans are worse than the Swedes, Poles or Germans?
    In addition, not the Turks, not the Azerbaijanis, but the Armenians, went as mercenaries to Khan Mamai and went with him to conquer Russia.
    "The same autumn, Prince Mamaia came to the Horde with his like-minded people, and with all the other Horde princes, and with all the might of Totar and Polovtsian, and besides, he called rats, Bessermen, and Armenians, and Fryazi, Cherkasy, and Yasy, and Burtasy "

    Novgorod IV Chronicle. PSRL. T. 4, part 1. P. 311
  • Seal
    Seal 19 October 2020 18: 35
    0
    Quote: oleg123219307
    On the downed plane and killed our pilot.
    Do you seem to be familiar with further events after the downing of our plane? Yes, we then in the heat of the week said a lot of things to each other too much. We were very professionally tried to pit each other. But as subsequent events clearly showed, that our downed SU-24 aircraft was actually the first step in preparing for the coup in Turkey. Aspirated USA. The coup to overthrow Erdogan himself.
    The task is to bring down our plane and thereby quarrel our countries (Russia and Turkey).
    The goal is to ensure Russia's non-interference, and if you're lucky, then Russia's benevolent attitude towards the planned coup in Turkey. After all, the United States was well aware that we Russians would still learn that a coup against Erdogan was being prepared in Turkey.
    So they wanted to substitute Erdogan in such a way as to cover him so much before us that we would not have any desire to interfere with the coup in Turkey.
    Particularly tried some neighbors of Turkey. After the downing of our plane, the loudest screams on the topic that “Turks (hereinafter the dirty stream of traditional swearing at the Turks)”, “Turks cannot be trusted”, “Knife in the back” and so on came from Yerevan.
    But our President received information not only from their radio.
    Having analyzed the situation, our President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin eventually understood the whole situation. And at the last moment, he intervened and took a number of effective operational measures to save the Turkish President Erdogan.
    After that, Erdogan understood how the Americans framed him.
    By the way, aren't there ARMENIAN ears sticking out here ???
    Who was the head of the US Air Force's Special Operations Division at the Pentagon at the time? It turns out that at that time the head of the US Special Operations Department at the Pentagon was a certain General Jeffrey Harrigan. Well, yes, the one who, shortly after the failure with the coup against Erdogan, out of anger gave the command to bomb the positions of our PMCs on the Euphrates (Syria). US Air Force Lieutenant General Jeffrey Harrigan (or more precisely Jeffrey Harrigan). http://kavkazplus.com/news.php?id=18804#.XGLJHDpS-Uk
    By the way, after the provocation with our SU-24, the career of this Armenian general went up sharply. And it accelerated even more after the bombing of our PMCs in Syria. Now this Armenian is already the commander of the US Air Force in Europe and the African Air Force. At the same time, he is the commander of the Allied Air Command and the director of the Joint Aviation and Energy Competence Center.
    Here it is, threatening us with a blow to Kaliningrad.
    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/2019920632-gDPHk.html

    By the way, Armenians have new joy. Trump recently appointed Patrick Hovakimian as Chief of Staff for US National Intelligence.
    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/infoteka24/tramp-naznachil-patrika-ovakimiana-glavoi-apparata-nacionalnoi-razvedki-ssha-5eb3c831dadc5a18844d10fc
    Why such an honor? I am aware that the Turks killed our ambassador. But who was the customer?
  • Seal
    Seal 19 October 2020 18: 38
    0
    Quote: oleg123219307
    Azerbaijan's closest friend is Turkey, one of our worst enemies.
    Uh-huh. Like the Aztecs and Incas. Who were Spain's worst enemies. And the Indian Great Mughals were England's worst enemies.
  • Seal
    Seal 19 October 2020 18: 40
    0
    Quote: well
    and Turkey is our enemy,
    That is, we delivered our S-400s to the "enemy"? And we are building a nuclear power plant for him?
  • Victorm
    Victorm 19 October 2020 23: 53
    -1
    Quote: Okolotochny
    There is no need to get so excited, both sides participated in the pogroms of the 80s - 90s, both sides also participated in the murders of civilians like Khojaly (for example). It's like in the conflicts of the former Yugoslavia. It is clear that you are bending the line for your country, but sometimes you have to be more objective.
    Nonsense, sorry for the frankness.
    There are no and there were no nationalist movements in Azerbaijan now and did not exist in the Soviet period. At the same time, they developed a vigorous activity in the Armenian SSR, which resulted in the first terrorist attacks in Moscow:

    Look from 03.30, this is not me telling you, but the "national heroes" of Armenia.
    In the fall of 1993, while trying to plant a mine on the Tbilisi-Baku train, they detained counterintelligence officer of the ZakVO Soso Aroyan... Khatkovsky and Aroyan gave evidence, which was reported to Moscow. Russian special services got involved in the case. In May 1994, employees of the Federal Grid Company of the Russian Federation in Moscow detained a group of organizers of the terrorist attacks. To the surprise of the Chekists, all the detainees turned out to be members of the special services. The group was headed by Lieutenant Colonel Jahan Hovhannisyan, head of the department of reconnaissance and sabotage operations on the territory of the enemy of the State Department of National Security (GUNS) of Armenia. The second was his subordinate, Lieutenant Colonel Ashot Galoyan. The third detainee, Major Boris Simonyan, worked in the anti-terrorism department of the Federal Grid Company of Russia... All three were charged with terrorism, smuggling and illegal possession of weapons and explosives.

    The main military prosecutor's office of the Russian Federation, which was investigating the case, managed to collect evidence of their involvement in the train explosion in Azerbaijan and two attempted bombings, one of which was committed on Russian territory. On the instructions of the terrorists, a train was mined in Derbent, and only thanks to an error of the executor, the explosive device did not work and was neutralized in Mineralnye Vody. The court recognized that the crimes committed by them really fall under Article 213,3 (terrorism), however, it was impossible to convict the saboteurs under this article, since at the time of the crime there was no such article in the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. Then Article 68 (sabotage) was in force, but by the time of the trial it was excluded from the Criminal Code. In addition, the criminals were not charged with the explosion of the train in Gudermes, since, according to the court, it was impossible to carry out investigative actions on the territory of Chechnya, which was actually independent at that time, and the explosion in Baku, although it was proved, did not fall under the jurisdiction of the Russian court, as it took place on the territory of another state. As a result, the head of the terrorists, Oganesyan, was found guilty under Art. 86 of the Criminal Code (damage to communication lines and vehicles) and 218 (illegal possession of weapons and ammunition), and sentenced to 6 years. Simonyan (employee of the Federal Grid Company of Russia) and Galoyan were also convicted under the 218th. The first was sentenced to 2 years in prison, and Galoyan, who received a little less, was released from custody right in the courtroom due to the fact that he had actually served his sentence. One of the detainees, Petrosyan, was unlawfully released from custody in exchange for a promise to cooperate with the investigation, but once he was free, he hastily left the territory of Russia.

    From the timing in general, I am bastard, but what about the fact that Armenia is a terrorist state, I think the materials of the Russian courts and special services are more argument for you than my biased and biased words?
    Think again about the frostbite of the state, which beats from the OTRK on the residential quarters of a large city, whose special services organize acts of terrorism, no sabotage, namely, terrorist acts, and the special services are subordinate to the first persons of the state and do not act at their own peril and risk.
    And then remember who was the organizer of the pogroms in Sumgait ...
    Remember who started the war in Karabakh, then against the Internal Troops of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs ...
    The first terrorist attack in Baku in public transport was carried out by Armenian nationalists long before Sumgait, Azerbaijanis began to be persecuted in Armenia long before Sumgait. Once again, the Azerbaijanis did not have any nationalist and anti-Armenian movements, there was no policy of the nation's superiority over others, territorial claims and other vinaigrette in their heads.

    Khojaly ... This is not a topic that, when discussing with an Azeri, one can casually drop the Armenian cynical memorized:
    ... both sides also participated in the killings of civilians like Khojaly (for example).

    Do you even think when you write? ... Have you even thought about WHAT you wrote ?! Do you understand what happened there, what is the scale of the tragedy?

    After that, you can only tell that in Auschwitz and other concentration camps, Jews, Soviet prisoners of war burned themselves, in Leningrad the population starved itself to death, etc. Your name is not Ksyusha? - and then you never know, here as I see a lot of some strange comrades, men write under women's nicknames, I admit that Ksyushenka also writes under a man's.
    On Khojaly there is also a confession of Serzh Sargsyan, a statement of the so-called. NKR, conclusions of many international organizations. Read less high-tech propaganda in reputable sources like Yandex.Zen and the like.