Military Review

Why China cannot do without Russia's help in civil aircraft construction: project CR929

65

Despite the rapid economic growth and high level of technology development, the PRC still continues to cooperate with Russia in the field of aircraft construction. There are reasons for this.


Three years ago, in 2017, the China Civil Aircraft Corporation (COMAC) and the Russian United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) formed a joint China-Russia International Commercial Aircraft Company (CRAIC). The main task of the new company was to create wide-body passenger aircraft for the needs of the growing Chinese civilian market. aviation... A year later, in 2018, a demo CR929 was presented in Zhuhai. Participants of the Air Show China, held in this city, could see it.

The need for its own passenger aircraft in the Celestial Empire is really very high. So, in 2018, 409 wide-body passenger aircraft were operated in the PRC. That is, in just one year, their number increased by 47 cars compared to 2017. In nine years, in 2029, up to 779 wide-body passenger aircraft will be operated in China, that is, their number will almost double. Thus, the Chinese civil aviation market is indeed developing very rapidly, and its development significantly exceeds the pace of development of both the Russian and Eastern European markets.

The aircraft of the CR929 project is just going to be put into operation. Its appearance will have to cover the shortage of liners. Meanwhile, now such giants of the western aviation industry as Airbus and Boeing are leading in the production of wide-body passenger aircraft. They are the ones who produce such aircraft as Airbus A330neo, Airbus A350 XWB, Boeing 787, Boeing 777X. Boeing 787 is the leader in terms of demand, the number of orders for which exceeds the number of orders for aircraft manufactured by Airbus.

According to the Chinese edition "Guancha", the CR929 aircraft is very similar in its basic characteristics to the Boeing 787. However, the success in the market is due not only to technical characteristics: there must be a reason for the PRC itself, as well as in Russia and the post-Soviet countries, to prefer order CR929 by reducing purchases of aircraft manufactured by Airbus and Boeing. The same is the case with the promotion of the C919, a narrow-body passenger aircraft being developed in the Middle Kingdom, competing with the Boeing 737 MAX and Airbus A320neo.


In conditions of competition with the West, China will need to build up cooperation with Russia. First of all, this is due to the great risk of more and more economic sanctions against China by the United States. Nothing personal, just competition. Moreover, considering that the same Boeing still occupies a key place in the Chinese civil aviation market and it is not at all profitable for the Americans to be supplanted by a Chinese corporation. This circumstance gives Washington the opportunity to manipulate, threatening sanctions in any disputable situation.

For the same reason, the United States does not allow the transfer of its aviation technologies and developments to the Chinese. Such a blockade prevents the formation of an independent Chinese aircraft industry, and here interaction with Russia and its rich school of civil aircraft construction comes to the rescue. It is in the Chinese-Russian cooperation that Beijing sees a chance to overcome the country's dependence on the West in the field of civil aviation.
Author:
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United Aircraft Corporation
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  1. Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 15 October 2020 12: 21 New
    17
    And why should they refuse help where they cannot? As they master all possible technologies of their partners, they will immediately say go to the forest. Like we ourselves with a mustache.
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 15 October 2020 12: 42 New
      +7
      Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
      Why should they refuse help where they cannot

      So you seem to have subscribed to the engines? It is unprofitable to launch PD-35 into series only under IL-96, serial production is small. And together with the "Chinese" - already under two hundred a year - there is something to expand the plant and the equipment to "update"!
      1. Krest
        Krest 15 October 2020 15: 52 New
        0
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        It is unprofitable to launch PD-35 into series only under IL-96, serial production is small. And together with the "Chinese" - already under two hundred a year - there is something to expand the plant and the equipment to "update"!

        That's right, Evgeny and it is beneficial for us and the Chinese have less trouble .. In the same space industry! hi
      2. Bobrick
        Bobrick 15 October 2020 17: 25 New
        +2
        With the PD-35, even without the Chinese, everything will not be so sad - an AN-124 remotorization, engines for PAK TA and other projects are needed.
        And a family with a thrust from 22 tons to 50 tons is planned at once, as well as gas turbines for various purposes based on it up to 40 MW.

        It seems that for such reasons, the engine will be made in any case, even without a Chinese order.
    2. Sibguest
      Sibguest 15 October 2020 13: 24 New
      +4
      The answer to your question: https://topcor.ru/16937-kitajskie-smi-proekt-lajnera-cr929-mozhet-sorvatsja-iz-za-melochnosti-russkih.html?utm_source=finobzor.ru

      China, like India, wants to buy production technologies and not just finished products.
      But is it worth doing this without thinking about prospects and competition?
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 15 October 2020 16: 26 New
        +4
        Quote: Sibguest
        China, like India, wants to buy production technologies and not just finished products

        To want and to be able are related things, but not the same thing. I know first-hand that the Chinese are no longer allowed on the "Ufa Motors" ... even outside the checkpoint. In Perm, it looks like the same baida. And there is so much to "buy" ... we handed over to the Chinese the LICENSE for AL 31 ... with technologies. Well? As they bought at "Salute", they are still buying. For many years already. Also first-hand, I work with the UEC.
      2. orionvitt
        orionvitt 15 October 2020 17: 17 New
        +4
        Quote: Sibguest
        China, like India, wants to buy production technologies and not just finished products

        This only suggests that China is often over-praised, while Russia, on the contrary, is undeservedly criticized. Like, look how everything is "hurt" in China, and how everything is "bad" in Russia. But if you dig deeper, especially in the field of high technologies, the picture is somewhat different. That this article proves once again. The Chinese are not as good as they are constantly trying to tell us.
      3. neri73-r
        neri73-r 15 October 2020 17: 28 New
        0
        Quote: Sibguest
        But is it worth doing this without thinking about prospects and competition?

        We have already competed on a hike. And they understand this. I'm talking about quantity, not technology.
  2. Alien From
    Alien From 15 October 2020 12: 21 New
    +5
    Not everything can be bought for money. The Chinese know this very well.
    1. JD1979
      JD1979 15 October 2020 13: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: Alien From
      Not everything can be bought for money. The Chinese know this very well.

      What money cannot buy can be obtained through industrial espionage, the Chinese are also very well aware of this.
      1. Alien From
        Alien From 15 October 2020 13: 54 New
        0
        And so it happens.
      2. Bobrick
        Bobrick 15 October 2020 17: 15 New
        +2
        What money cannot buy can be obtained through industrial espionage, the Chinese are also very well aware of this.


        Quite often, without knowledge of technology, all dragged away blueprints turn into a pumpkin.
        Even knowledge of technology, but intended for production on other equipment, can give the same pumpkin effect.
        And the peculiarities of the Russian aviation industry will only contribute to this effect.

        The Chinese are also familiar with this effect.
  3. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 15 October 2020 12: 32 New
    +4
    and here cooperation with Russia and its rich school of civil aircraft construction comes to the rescue.
    ..Like the classics: "Gasoline is yours, our ideas" ..
  4. Mityay65
    Mityay65 15 October 2020 12: 35 New
    +1
    The article is weak. There are clear and distinct weaknesses for Airbus and Boeing - technological, financial and economic. The RF and China can take advantage of these weaknesses. They need to be identified.
    Moreover, we are in the process of a technological revolution - composites will very quickly clear the sky of aluminum flyers.
    Well, the specter of the next technological breakthrough in civil aviation - the transition to cryogenic fuels hi
    1. Crabong
      Crabong 15 October 2020 12: 43 New
      +4
      Yes, you, my friend, are an optimist! Doesn't it seem to you that there is a possibility that in the near future we will fight with sticks and stones?
      1. Mityay65
        Mityay65 15 October 2020 12: 47 New
        +1
        No. Write on the case.
        1. Crabong
          Crabong 15 October 2020 13: 05 New
          -1
          The beginning of an energy crisis in the yard, overpopulation, lack of water ... Soon the carve-up will begin! And here you are drawing projects ...
          1. Mityay65
            Mityay65 15 October 2020 13: 10 New
            +1
            Go go, I don’t serve ...
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Krest
              Krest 15 October 2020 15: 55 New
              -3
              Quote: Mityai65
              Go go, I don’t serve ...

              laughing good They like to groan here, like everything is gone, etc.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 15 October 2020 16: 47 New
                +1
                Quote: Krest
                They like to groan here, like everything is gone, etc.

                Vitaly, didn't you remember here how you flew on the Yaks as a student on vacation? My nephew would have tried to fly with her stipe. 10 years will save for a ticket. And this in the Union of students was called beggars.
                1. Rzzz
                  Rzzz 16 October 2020 01: 05 New
                  0
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  My nephew would have tried to fly with her stipe. 10 years will save for a ticket.

                  If on Yaks - then he flew close. Now for such distances, for non-hot dates, tickets cost 2-5 thousand.
                  And if you monitor profile resources and plan in advance, then you can find such prices:
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 16 October 2020 01: 08 New
                    0
                    Quote: rzzz
                    Now for such distances, for non-hot dates, tickets cost 2-5 thousand.

                    And the scholarship is 800 rubles where I had a thirty student in the Union.
                    1. Rzzz
                      Rzzz 16 October 2020 01: 27 New
                      0
                      Well, 800 rubles is generally a mockery of common sense. For that kind of money, you can live a couple, well, three days, if you do not pay for housing, and do not use transport.
                      So this is incomparable.
  5. ont65
    ont65 15 October 2020 12: 38 New
    +4
    The only question is how long they will remember about the help and the country where it came from. And in less than a year, CR liners will go under the CN (China & No name) brand. What is built in China by foreigners is Chinese, what they managed to understand from foreign technology and science also becomes Chinese. Many AN-2s fly in China, but what are they called? Do you know such a city called Dalniy? He is not, there is Dalian. A very peculiar people. Only Americans and Ukrainians can compete with them in honesty and dignity. Some of them founded all sciences, others even became the progenitors of civilization. In general, to hell with them, if only then they did not spit in our direction as under Mao after the liberation of the country from the Japanese, the construction and equipping of the PLA, factories and power plants, an atomic bomb as a gift from the simpletons of the Russians.
    1. KCA
      KCA 15 October 2020 12: 57 New
      +2
      So it is necessary to say thanks to Comrade Khrushchev, so that he turned face down, for "debunking the personality cult" and blaming Stalin, this Mao could not stand
      1. ont65
        ont65 15 October 2020 13: 02 New
        +2
        And in your opinion, the course of the internal policy of a friendly state is a reason to make territorial claims, shoot at border guards, cut off economic ties and denigrate in your press? In general, such a 'gratitude' depending on current trends is a myth.
      2. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 15 October 2020 14: 21 New
        0
        The “Great Leap Forward” and the “Cultural Revolution” in our country would inevitably be condemned, even if there was no condemnation of the personality cult of Stalin. This was too much like Trotskyism. Although the Maoists respected Stalin, they also criticized him. The Chinese leadership favored the ideas of Bukharin, Radek, who were considered from the end of the 30s. we have "enemies of the people". And the attitude towards Trotsky was not as unambiguous as ours. By the way, G.M. Malenkov was the first to speak about the need to combat the cult of personality at closed meetings in the Central Committee a few days after the death of Stalin, and L.P. Beria expressed himself in the same spirit. If Malenkov had remained in power, the political course would be 90% the same as under Khrushchev. Moreover, perhaps, in terms of political liberalization, as well as in terms of reorienting the economy towards the production of consumer goods, Malenkov would go beyond Khrushchev. And so, in general, Khrushchev's competitors, Malenkov and Beria, were also not going to continue the old Stalinist policy. Molotov remained the only steadfast Stalinist in the leadership, but he no longer had a chance to occupy top positions. Bulganin, Mikoyan and Kaganovich with Voroshilov took a wait-and-see attitude. But, judging by their speeches, Stalin even got them in some way.
  6. Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst 15 October 2020 12: 41 New
    +4
    What money can't buy can be bought for big money, sorry I'm not the author. Next: steal (scout), copy, etc. etc. Resent - people from business will throw you more options. As a last resort, war, but as a rule, does not come to that.
  7. askort154
    askort154 15 October 2020 12: 50 New
    +3
    For the same reason, the United States does not allow the transfer of its aviation technologies and developments to the Chinese. Such a blockade prevents the formation of an independent Chinese aircraft industry, and here interaction with Russia and its rich school of civil aircraft construction comes to the rescue.

    Interaction with Russia should look like this: your yuan and service provision + our developments and an assembly shop in Russia. yes
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 15 October 2020 13: 00 New
      +5
      It would be nice, but only ... Noticed how in the article - There must be a reason for the PRC itself, as well as in Russia and the post-Soviet countries, to prefer to order CR929 by reducing purchases of aircraft manufactured by Airbus and Boeing.
      So that's it! Already not a word about MS-21 and our other stuff. So you, northern barbarians, give us your technologies and developments !!! And then we may sell to you OUR CR929
      1. ZEMCH
        ZEMCH 15 October 2020 17: 37 New
        +3
        Quote: NDR-791
        Already not a word about MS-21 and our other stuff.

        MS-21 is a medium-haul aircraft, analogue of CR919, CR929 is a twin-engine wide-body long-haul aircraft, we have no pure analogue, only if the Il-96 is remotorized under PD-35
    2. Cympak
      Cympak 15 October 2020 13: 03 New
      +5
      But in reality: Russian ideas, technologies and know-how at the initial stage, then Chinese production and service, and then: "buy Chinese, pay hard currency!"
      Airbus and Boeing are not stupid to transfer technology to the Chinese.
    3. Pashhenko Nikolay
      Pashhenko Nikolay 15 October 2020 13: 04 New
      +3
      It should be that should. But as we see all the assembly lines they drag to themselves.
  8. Garm
    Garm 15 October 2020 12: 55 New
    +7
    Why China cooperates with the Russian Federation in aircraft construction is understandable. But what will happen to the Russian aircraft industry when China masters our technologies, which we will invest in this project, this is a big question. After all, the result will be a modern competitive aircraft that has taken the best from the developments of the Russian Federation and China. It is unlikely that we alone will do something more advanced.
  9. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 15 October 2020 12: 56 New
    +4
    China has planned to build 2000 airports by 2030. Where there is ours with a figure of 241. But in the 91st we had almost one and a half thousand.
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 15 October 2020 13: 02 New
      +4
      And the aviation is appropriate and its own ...
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 15 October 2020 13: 10 New
        +4
        Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
        And the aviation is appropriate and its own ...

        What are we talking about. You watch old films and you wonder how easily people in the Soviet Union flew around cities and villages. On the weekend we could hit the road in Sochi. In our city, one name remains from the airport, and from aviation - only memories of how the flyers from Dosaaf on holidays in the sky wound circles.
        1. Daniil Konovalenko
          Daniil Konovalenko 15 October 2020 13: 18 New
          +6
          We also removed the airport of domestic airlines, from which it was possible to fly around the edge, and sometimes to the neighboring region. Only the international one remained. Now, as in the song: the plane is good, the steamer is good, and the deer are better! In the Kuban, boats, passenger steamers went like regular buses. Now, alas, no. What about small aviation.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 15 October 2020 13: 32 New
            +3
            Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
            the plane is good, the steamer is good, and the deer are better!

            By the way, Kola Beldy is a front-line soldier, at the age of 16 he unscrewed two years at the front. He was a minder in the navy.
            1. Daniil Konovalenko
              Daniil Konovalenko 15 October 2020 13: 35 New
              +4
              Yes, I know. In Krasnodar I came on tour. Mom told me. He did not hesitate, they say regional centers and villages. He did not refuse anyone.
  10. iouris
    iouris 15 October 2020 13: 11 New
    0
    So far we have managed.
  11. nnz226
    nnz226 15 October 2020 13: 24 New
    +2
    It seems that we did not share something with the Chinese in this project, and it is still frozen!
    1. d4rkmesa
      d4rkmesa 15 October 2020 13: 45 New
      +1
      There are some oddities, pulling the blanket. The last informative publications in the press were at the end of last year - they seemed to be experiencing something. But a positive publication is a good sign.
    2. PROXOR
      PROXOR 15 October 2020 14: 26 New
      0
      Right. The Chinese want to make the engines themselves, and our cookies showed them, they say, buy products made on the territory of the Russian Federation. Nothing. The Chinese will go to rest and take it. For the engines Rose Royce, Prit & Whitney will cost many times more than PD-35.
      And if it takes a long time, ours will try to make their own. At least based on the IL-96-400 developments. Although the work there is not measured.
  12. rocket757
    rocket757 15 October 2020 13: 57 New
    +3
    China is a difficult partner ... but it's a problem on both sides. We must learn to interact, create mutually acceptable rules !!!
    Because the weak are not loved as much as greyhounds too! In everything it is necessary to establish a reasonable balance of forces, interests, mutual influence !!!
    1. iouris
      iouris 15 October 2020 14: 19 New
      +1
      Quote: rocket757
      Because the weak are not loved as well as greyhounds too!

      In more detail, pliiz: which of these two is too "greyhound", and who is "too weak"?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 15 October 2020 15: 01 New
        +1
        And who loves the extreme in general? These are the general rules for building normal relationships.
        And on the topic, behind the specifics ... there is Professor Maslov and other experts on the Far East region, Indochina, they explain who, why and why, and most importantly how!
        After all, I only had contacts with the military from that region, and this is completely different.
  13. Glagol1
    Glagol1 15 October 2020 14: 02 New
    +3
    The author is not in the know. Project 929 stopped
  14. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 15 October 2020 14: 16 New
    +2
    It's easier for China .... you can just close the domestic market. And almost 1000 pieces of wide-body airliners are yours ... I think the story there will be similar to the MC21. In the final stage, they will refuse to supply something .... they have already mastered carbon fiber. Avionics? And there is no PD35 yet.
  15. Pavel57
    Pavel57 15 October 2020 14: 27 New
    -2
    Are the logistics and profit sharing issues resolved?
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 15 October 2020 16: 44 New
      0
      They agreed on the shore. A couple of China and the Russian Federation. Manufactured in China. I don't know if they will collect something from us.
  16. Pavel57
    Pavel57 15 October 2020 14: 28 New
    -1
    Quote: mordvin xnumx
    China has planned to build 2000 airports by 2030. Where there is ours with a figure of 241. But in the 91st we had almost one and a half thousand.

    You can overstrain.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 15 October 2020 16: 56 New
      +2
      Quote: Pavel57
      You can overstrain.

      There are 13 and a half thousand airports in the USA.
  17. evgen1221
    evgen1221 15 October 2020 15: 28 New
    -1
    Why can't the Chinese do without the help of the Russian Federation? Nobody will cook for themselves elementary competitors in the offended market (I'm talking about Airbus and Boeing), With our civilian aircraft, it’s probably quite a disaster in terms of accessing foreign lines, but inside the country they were hammered together. So the Chinese are forging everything that can and cannot be sold until we are ready. Yes, and the impression that they want to put us under China tightly in all aspects, if only they would not touch us now and maybe in the future, China will wither away than there is doubt however.
  18. chingachguc
    chingachguc 15 October 2020 15: 41 New
    +1
    The Chinese demand to transfer technology to the engines, we refuse ... we have already burned ourselves, that's enough ... the Chinese are angry. Russia itself is capable of developing such a samoet, but there is no money. The Chinese have money, but no competence.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 15 October 2020 16: 46 New
      0
      China does not ask for our PD-35 ... the main turbojet engine with a thrust of 35 tons is American, I think that our aircrafts will also have the main one - the American turbojet engine. Our PD-35 is a backup option for special needs. China will closely monitor the operation of the MS21 with the PD-14. As our airlines will watch.
      1. chingachguc
        chingachguc 15 October 2020 17: 49 New
        +1
        It is the engine that they want. Everyone understands that the Americans will include sanctions at any moment - and then what to do? The Chinese want us to develop engines with their money and then localize them in China. Of course, after that, the project from the Russian-Chinese one will immediately become purely Chinese. The Chinese market will close for us. Not only that: the Chinese give us away from the international market, simply due to the mass character - their counterparts will be definitely cheaper. Do we need it? There are no friends in this area.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 15 October 2020 18: 27 New
          -1
          From what they wrote .... no about PD35. We do not have competencies in 35t turbojet engine ...... what can we transfer to China?
        2. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 15 October 2020 21: 14 New
          0
          If we use their money to develop a turbojet engine ..... what's wrong with that? The points:.....
          1. chingachguc
            chingachguc 16 October 2020 20: 58 New
            0
            The bad news is that the Chinese want technology. Before the war, we also had problems with aircraft engines - well, we could not provide the army with engines comparable in power to foreigners. And if they forced them, they became one-day. And throughout the war we lagged behind. A qualitative leap took place when, after the war, German engineers were attracted ... Here we were already on an equal footing with them. The Chinese aircraft industry is now the same as the Soviet one before the war. They want to overcome this gap of theirs. And we must help them. For some reason. Although we are lagging behind in terms of civil aircraft engines, our narrow-eyed brothers are much worse off with this.
            1. Zaurbek
              Zaurbek 17 October 2020 10: 38 New
              0
              In terms of engine technology, the Chinese have relied on Ukraine.
      2. Pavel57
        Pavel57 15 October 2020 20: 18 New
        0
        At the last moment, the Americans can throw with the engine.
        1. chingachguc
          chingachguc 15 October 2020 20: 46 New
          +1
          threw - and more than once ... they even bent their allies more than once. And it started not now, but quite a long time ago. Of the latter, the Swedes and Germans, collaborating on GAZ, were bent over. The Germans stopped production of their trucks, and the Swedes refused to supply spare parts for their press ...
  19. Pavel57
    Pavel57 15 October 2020 20: 20 New
    0
    Quote: Zaurbek
    They agreed on the shore. A couple of China and the Russian Federation. Manufactured in China. I don't know if they will collect something from us.

    The final agreement is on hold, isn't it?
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 15 October 2020 21: 17 New
      0
      A joint company China-Russia Commercial Aircraft International Corp is being created to implement the project. Ltd. headquartered in Shanghai. There will also be a head office responsible for the strategy and development of the program at the highest level. The president of the joint venture will be Guo Bozhi, head of COMAC's wide-body aircraft division. Chairman of the Board of Directors of the JV - Oleg Evgenievich Bocharov (Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation). Sergey Fominykh (program manager for wide-body aircraft of PJSC UAC) will become a member of the board of directors from the Russian side. [3] The chief designer from the Russian side was appointed Litvinov Maxim Sergeevich, and from the Chinese side - Chen Yingchun.

      COMAC will develop and produce a metal-composite fuselage, PJSC UAC will develop and produce a composite wing. The final assembly of the liner will be carried out in Shanghai at the COMAC facilities. The engineering center will be located in Moscow. [3]

      At the end of 2019, negotiations are underway with suppliers of components for the CR929. Almost half of more than 100 potential suppliers are from China and Russia [14].