Military Review

China tests a swarm of drones from a mobile launcher

211

The People's Liberation Army of China is mastering the tactics of using a swarm of drones. The Chinese military can now quickly launch 48 drones from the back of a truck or helicopter.


The Chinese Academy of Electronics and Information Technology recently tested new drone launch capabilities. The name of the drones tested by the academy is still unknown. But if you look at the video footage from the tests, you can see that the unmanned aerial vehicles resemble the CH-901 of China Poly Defense.

The CH-901 was first introduced in 2016. It is distinguished by a pair of retractable fenders and a foldable V-shaped tail unit. More recently, the manufacturer has replaced the V-shaped tail unit with a twin, similar to the one used in the China Academy of Electronics and Information Technology video.

It is known that designs with two pairs of folding wings have recently become widespread in the world of unmanned aerial vehicles. For example, the Switchblade drone manufactured by the American company AeroVironment has a similar design. As for the drone presented by the Chinese academy, according to the author of the American edition of The Drive, Joseph Trevithick, it resembles the Coyote of the American company Raytheon.


Trevithick compares the Coyote to a Chinese drone and the launch options demonstrated by the Chinese academy in a recent test. The drones were launched from a 48-pipe ground launcher mounted on a modified 6x6 version of the Dongfeng Mengshi light tactical vehicle, which in the US is called the Chinese copy of the Humvee.

The American edition draws a parallel with multi-tube launchers used by the US Navy's Office of Naval Research as part of a project to develop low-cost drones. A similar complex with tube launchers was presented by Poly Defense.


A similar test of a US ground launcher

It should be noted that any launchers of this type can be placed on the ground in a static position, as well as installed on ships and boats of the naval forces. The Chinese Academy also tested the possibility of launching an unmanned aerial vehicle from a Bell 206L helicopter. Here Trevithick also finds common ground with the American Coyote drones, which are also capable of launching from the air.

An interesting point in the video is the tactics of using drones. Up to 11 Chinese drones fly in a swarm-like formation. The operator controls their movement using a touch screen on a small device resembling a tablet. Also, drones are able to observe certain areas on the ground, and then tune in to hit selected targets. It is not very clear, however, the question whether the Chinese drones have any special devices, including infrared cameras for working in low light conditions, for example, at night or in bad weather.


In any case, China's turn to the use of drone swarm tactics is indicative of an increase in its operational capabilities. The drone launching and control system, according to the American publication, looks very mature and perfect. This remark is especially true in relation to a ground mobile launcher, which allows you to quickly change the place of launching drones. Moreover, the ability of one truck to launch 48 drones in a matter of seconds, which will attack the target area, shows that there is currently no defense against such an attack.

Lasers, miniature interceptors, and electronic warfare are still not sophisticated enough to effectively counter drones in general, let alone swarms of drones. An example is the ongoing military conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan in Nagorno-Karabakh.

Trevithick writes that even self-made drones can create huge problems for the enemy on the battlefield, and this circumstance becomes especially risky for modern state armies in the context of their confrontation with various radical groups and insurgent movements that actively use drones as cheap and effective means of reconnaissance and defeat of enemy manpower and equipment.
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  1. Victor_B
    Victor_B 15 October 2020 08: 50
    10
    No fucking wunderwuff!
    I wonder how many operators it takes to control a full salvo?
    Or can only a limited number of UAVs be lifted simultaneously?
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 15 October 2020 09: 02
      +6
      Quote: Victor_B
      Or can only a limited number of UAVs be lifted simultaneously?

      I think there are no restrictions. How many Chinese people can sit at the monitor, and release a lot. Human, technical capabilities allow. The main thing is to fit in the sky.
      For 20 years, mankind has made a huge leap: if then the cellular was exotic, then today both a photo-movie camera and a healthy screen were stuck in it. In fact, the phone is a computer. So it is with drones.
      1. Shurik70
        Shurik70 15 October 2020 21: 30
        0
        It is not very clear, however, the question of whether Chinese drones have any special devices, including infrared cameras.

        What nonsense.
        Roy - that's what the swarm is. Different drones can have different configurations. And in total, the swarm turns out to be very functional. At least fly in the dark, at least work as a repeater or electronic warfare, at least a kamikaze. The larger the swarm, the more versatility.
    2. Insurgent
      Insurgent 15 October 2020 09: 02
      +8
      Quote: Victor_B
      I wonder how many operators it takes to control a full salvo?

      It is possible that one operator is enough, who, by simply touching the active monitor, will "place marks" on the intended targets. Further, the system will do everything by itself, taking into account the fact that the aircraft-projectile can be in the air for up to 2 hours and obviously it is possible to make adjustments to targets ...

      Here is a "single", portable version of this system.


      The CH-901 device is launched from a portable "pipe", after which it can be used as a reconnaissance or patrolling bomb - just like the American analogue of the Switchblade manufactured by AeroVironment.


      One system weighs about 45 kg and includes 3 drones, a launch tube and a laptop for control. It can be transported in small SUVs or even carried with you. The 1.2 meter long drone weighs 9 kg and flies at a speed of about 150 km / h. The range of its action is 15 km, the “patrolling aerial bomb” can be in the air for up to 120 minutes. On-board camera allows you to detect objects at a distance of up to 2 km
      1. Temples
        Temples 15 October 2020 10: 25
        -7
        Quote: Insurgent
        just one operator is enough, who, by simply touching the active monitor, will "place the marks"

        each drone has its own camera.
        You cannot set a mark on one frame for all.
        You need to point your finger on every video.

        Or the system must receive external target designation.
        And then distribute the task to the drones.
        Monitor implementation.
        If one or another drone refuses to transfer the task to another.

        But this is more complicated. Much more difficult.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 15 October 2020 10: 33
          +4
          Quote: Temples
          each drone has its own camera.
          You cannot set a mark on one frame for all.

          And every drone numbered, and if the whole "flock" fits into the operator's field of vision, as well as potential targets, that is, on the monitor, then what is the problem with determining the goal for each?
          1. Temples
            Temples 15 October 2020 11: 00
            0
            Quote: Insurgent
            "flock" fits into the operator's field of vision

            Who will give the operator a "field of view"?
            This is the external target designation.
            Then what's the point in transmitting video from each drone?
            Just for YouTube demonstration?

            We will carry out different tasks
            - personal control of the drone using the capabilities of the drone.
            - external target designation.

            In the second case, why do you need a drone with personal VIDEO communication?
            Even artillery shells work according to the second scenario.
            1. Insurgent
              Insurgent 15 October 2020 11: 06
              +4
              Quote: Temples
              Who will give the operator a "field of view"?
              This is the external target designation.
              Then what's the point in transmitting video from each drone?


              So drones are - reconnaissance shock (if you do not understand) and the leader of the "swarm" (or several) will give the same "external target designation"you are pushing so hard.
              And there was no question of transmitting video from each drone to the operator separately. You invented it yourself and persistently "trump".

              And what actually prevents you from launching "alone" for a preliminary assessment of the situation before launching the bulk?
    3. Same lech
      Same lech 15 October 2020 09: 03
      11
      how many operators do you need to control a full salvo?

      Not at all ... everything can be entrusted to AI by setting it an appropriate task ... he will choose the methods of solution himself based on the capabilities and the environment ... a scary future if it ends up in the hands of bad people.
      1. Kart
        Kart 15 October 2020 09: 43
        +9
        One is needed - to assign goals on the received picture. I poked my finger at the screen - this, this and this, and everything, beyond the AI.
      2. novel66
        novel66 15 October 2020 10: 30
        +2
        what if the AI ​​takes offense at the owners? well, there, for late service? here's a picture
        1. Vol4ara
          Vol4ara 15 October 2020 10: 45
          +3
          Quote: novel xnumx
          what if the AI ​​takes offense at the owners? well, there, for late service? here's a picture

          Does ai have consciousness?
          1. novel66
            novel66 15 October 2020 12: 22
            0
            not yet ... probably ...
            1. Vol4ara
              Vol4ara 15 October 2020 12: 29
              +1
              Quote: novel xnumx
              not yet ... probably ...

              So I'm talking about the same thing, it's just a smart program capable of self-teaching aimed solely at completing the mission
              1. novel66
                novel66 15 October 2020 12: 31
                0
                and yet ... the AI ​​will decide - why fly far, if there is a closer target, the program thinks along the path of least resistance
                1. Vol4ara
                  Vol4ara 15 October 2020 13: 09
                  +2
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  and yet ... the AI ​​will decide - why fly far, if there is a closer target, the program thinks along the path of least resistance

                  She will not solve anything, she will be shown the square of activity and the signatures for which to work. And how to do this work, at what angle to attack, how many drones on which target, how different drones will attack the same target, it's up to you
                  1. novel66
                    novel66 15 October 2020 13: 10
                    0
                    and here she is - and what are you telling me? I'll be back ... self-liquidators, that is, I wonder
                    1. Vol4ara
                      Vol4ara 15 October 2020 13: 13
                      +2
                      Quote: novel xnumx
                      and here she is - and what are you telling me? I'll be back ... self-liquidators, that is, I wonder

                      Well, when ai ceases to be an algorithm, but becomes an artificial consciousness, then it will be so
    4. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 15 October 2020 09: 03
      0
      One is a swarm of drones
    5. Nazar
      Nazar 15 October 2020 09: 11
      +7
      Victor_B - Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like everything is generally creepy there - the operators do not need to drive each drone, note that the video shows the lines between the drones - from three to one, that is, the operator leads one drone, and that in turn leads a few more, it is possible that they themselves in this group will be able to distribute among themselves. What and how to beat such a dirty trick is not clear fellow
      1. neri73-r
        neri73-r 15 October 2020 09: 22
        0
        Quote: Nazar
        What and how to beat such a dirty trick is not clear

        The identification and destruction of the launcher before launch and / or the operator after.
        1. ankir13
          ankir13 15 October 2020 10: 23
          +2
          Yes, such a thing should be equated with tactical nuclear weapons, with all that it implies, for the search and primary destruction of the operator, otherwise you will not expect any happiness in the database ...
      2. Insurgent
        Insurgent 15 October 2020 09: 22
        +5
        Quote: Nazar
        What and how to beat such a dirty trick is not clear

        Obviously, only with electronic warfare systems that suppress control signals from drone to drone and with the operator.

        But if the "lead" drone has already received target designation (and even worse if "shared" information with the wingmen), THAT OH! what .
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 15 October 2020 09: 45
          +1
          only electronic warfare systems that suppress control signals from drone to drone and with the operator.

          It won't help ... the program can be preset for drones ... they will no longer need to communicate with the operator.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 15 October 2020 09: 49
            +3
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            It won't help ... the program can be preset for drones ... they will no longer need to communicate with the operator.

            This is if the target's reconnaissance has already been carried out and its online reconnaissance is being conducted, for example, with a "clean" UAV reconnaissance aircraft, which can also be "extinguished" in one way or another, without allowing it to send data on the targets it has identified to the launcher, or even distorting these data...
            1. Avior
              Avior 15 October 2020 10: 07
              +3
              it's hard to do
              in order to prevent the drone from sending data to the remote control, it is necessary that not the drone itself, but the control panel, be in direct radio visibility of the electronic warfare station.
              And this is not always the case.
              1. Insurgent
                Insurgent 15 October 2020 10: 11
                +3
                Quote: Avior
                in order to prevent the drone from sending data to the remote control, it is necessary that not the drone itself, but the control panel, be in direct radio visibility of the electronic warfare station.
                And this is not always the case.

                Technologies will "step" and it is obvious that we will also see UAV repeaters electronic warfare signal, possibly even on the cheapest balloons.

                Thus, the "electronic warfare blind spot problem" will disappear.
                1. Avior
                  Avior 15 October 2020 10: 13
                  +2
                  but such a repeater will be vulnerable - it also shines in all directions
                  1. Insurgent
                    Insurgent 15 October 2020 10: 13
                    +3
                    Quote: Avior
                    but such a repeater will be vulnerable - it also shines in all directions

                    Everything is vulnerable and everything is relative.
                  2. venik
                    venik 15 October 2020 11: 40
                    +1
                    Quote: Avior
                    but such a repeater will be vulnerable - it also shines in all directions

                    ======
                    But its cost is an order of magnitude, if not an order of magnitude, and less than the cost of the stations! And often - much less than the cost of damaging ammunition!
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 15 October 2020 12: 23
                      +1
                      Yes how to say
                      The power of the repeater should be like that of the station itself, which is much more expensive to provide on the basis of the UAV than at the ground station, it is subject to the enemy's electronic warfare, like other UAVs, there should be several of them - if one is shot down, the other must be replaced, the flight time is limited and much other.
                      And the electronic warfare station itself is not canceled by anyone.
                      Quite an expensive attachment to the station.
                2. syndicalist
                  syndicalist 15 October 2020 10: 40
                  +3
                  Quote: Insurgent
                  we will also see UAV repeaters of the electronic warfare signal,

                  By the time these repeaters appear, fully autonomous drones, insensitive to electronic warfare, will appear.
                  1. Piramidon
                    Piramidon 15 October 2020 11: 02
                    -1
                    Quote: syndicalist
                    By the time these repeaters appear, fully autonomous drones, insensitive to electronic warfare, will appear.

                    The improvement of air defense and electronic warfare systems is also moving forward. Means may appear that "burn out" the electronics of drones with directed EMP. They can come up with some kind of anti-aircraft shells with a volumetric detonating filling. I remember even at school in the 60s we were shown a film about the action of an anti-aircraft missile with a nuclear warhead. A whole squadron of target planes flies, an explosion, a fireball and some burning lumps fall out of it.
                    1. syndicalist
                      syndicalist 15 October 2020 11: 18
                      0
                      Quote: Piramidon
                      a fireball and some burning lumps fall out of it

                      I have no doubt that everything looks cool in the cartoon. But if the swarm is formed only directly near the target and at low altitude?
                      1. Piramidon
                        Piramidon 15 October 2020 12: 15
                        -2
                        Quote: syndicalist
                        I have no doubt that everything looks cool in the cartoon

                        No cartoons. Educational film
                        (classified as "secret"). Documentary shooting. hi
                3. venik
                  venik 15 October 2020 11: 35
                  +1
                  Quote: Insurgent
                  Technologies will "step" and it is obvious that we will also see repeater UAVs of the electronic warfare signal, possibly even on the cheapest balloons.

                  =======
                  We are late, my friend! Repeaters in the electronic warfare system have been used for a very long time! By the way - not only in electronic warfare !:

                  SAM S-125 "Pechora-2" There, in one of the "boxes" - suitcases ("repeaters") there seem to be 7 pieces of them connected with a cable to the radar, which the fighters are running away from the radar! They can be used to "confuse" enemy anti-radar missiles.
                  I have not heard that the repeater antennas were raised with balloons (although technically it is quite possible), but probably only because they did not see the need, since the electronic warfare has very few "blind" zones (this is not a radar!) ...
                  And the UAV - repeaters used from the very beginning of the rapid development of "unmanned aviation". This is the simplest way to "lengthen the arm" of the UAV and carry the command post further from the line of contact.
                  1. Insurgent
                    Insurgent 15 October 2020 12: 14
                    -2
                    Quote: venik
                    We are late, my friend! Repeaters in the electronic warfare system have been used for a very long time!

                    Quote: venik
                    SAM S-125 "Pechora-2" There, in one of the "boxes" - suitcases ("repeaters") there seem to be 7 pieces of them connected with a cable to the radar, which the fighters are running away from the radar!


                    I'm not late anywhere No.

                    On the contrary, it was you who "slowed down" talking about "on repeaters"that someone is dragging somewhere ...

                    I wrote about repeater drones of the signal of electronic warfare stations (UAVs or, as an option, a small balloon), which in the future may appear to eliminate the "blind zone" effect ...
                    1. venik
                      venik 15 October 2020 13: 11
                      +2
                      Quote: Insurgent
                      I wrote about repeater drones of the signal of electronic warfare stations (UAVs or, as an option, a small balloon), which in the future may appear to eliminate the "blind zone" effect ...

                      ========
                      In my opinion, I have already clearly written: For electronic warfare stations, the concept of "blind spots" DOES NOT HAVE (!) The same meaning as for radar! Simply because the radar (with the exception of over-the-horizon) operates on the "straight beam" principle - ie. between the radar and the target must not be obstacles! And for electronic warfare it is Optional! There the ray is diverging. And what is in the "blind zone" of the radar is often quite within reach for electronic warfare.
                      It is, of course, the longer the antenna, the better (no one argues!). But with "aerostatasi" - this idea is already 70 years old, if not more, but broad distribution and did not receive - it is painfully capricious, troublesome unreliable thing (especially in windy weather). As for UAVs for electronic warfare, there is another problem: the suppressing interference signal must exceed the suppressed signal in power. Those. you need to install a VERY POWERFUL repeater on the drone (and it requires a very powerful power source) and all this WEIGHT and weight is considerable! And although all this is technically possible, it is much easier and cheaper to solve this problem more efficiently as now: by installing terrestrial repeaters.
                  2. YOUR
                    YOUR 15 October 2020 12: 50
                    +2
                    First use during the Vietnam War. Magnetrons were placed at a distance of up to a kilometer from the radar. Those old PRLRs like Shrike, lost control and could not "understand" where to fly. But the Americans learned the same. Equipped the warheads with a smoke part, when a cloud of smoke burst, it roughly showed where the air defense system was located. Then they began to modernize, invent new methods to install storage devices, etc. Those. there is a bolt for each nut.
        2. Captain Pushkin
          Captain Pushkin 15 October 2020 11: 25
          0
          Quote: Insurgent
          Quote: Nazar
          What and how to beat such a dirty trick is not clear

          Obviously, only with electronic warfare systems that suppress control signals from drone to drone and with the operator.

          If there is AI, then, for example, after the loss of communication, each drone independently searches for targets ranked by priority in a given square.
          Our military-industrial complex urgently needs to transfer money from nuclear-powered cruise missiles to the development and production of a swarm of drones. Otherwise there will be trouble.
      3. New Year day
        New Year day 15 October 2020 09: 51
        +1
        Quote: Nazar
        it is possible that they themselves in this group will be able to distribute goals among themselves.

        This is for this option. And during exploration, they were dispersed in breadth and depth, and the picture turns out to be gorgeous
      4. Vladimir Mashkov
        Vladimir Mashkov 15 October 2020 09: 54
        +3
        The information is impressive. Especially the video. And the prospects for the enemy are dire.
      5. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 15 October 2020 10: 15
        +5
        Quote: Nazar
        Victor_B - Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like everything is generally creepy there - the operators do not need to drive each drone, note that the video shows the lines between the drones - from three to one, that is, the operator leads one drone, and that in turn leads a few more, it is possible that they themselves in this group will be able to distribute among themselves. What and how to beat such a dirty trick is not clear fellow

        The same swarm of interceptors))
        40 units type 10 self-exploding or cheto like that
        1. Nazar
          Nazar 15 October 2020 10: 23
          +2
          Krasnodar are interceptors, it may be, but how to detect this trifle in the air, distinguish it from a flock of birds, and most importantly - how and how to aim these mini-interceptors at so many targets?
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 15 October 2020 10: 58
            +4
            At this stage of technological development, in the event of an unexpected attack, there is no way
            During a conflict, only combined visuals (say, a drone hovering at a high altitude above a certain section of the front / line of contact) and radar techniques
            Their development will cost more than using a swarm laughing hi
            1. Nazar
              Nazar 15 October 2020 11: 03
              +1
              Krasnodar - Quote: "... in case of an unexpected attack - no way ..." - here I am talking about the same thing - everything looks scary. and even against the background of what is shown from the war - there are single UAVs what damage they do, and here is a massive raid ... belay
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 15 October 2020 11: 08
                +3
                The precedent of 1973 was to keep only a limited contingent of infantry on the borders so that a massive enemy strike would fall into the "void". In the Russian Federation, the territory allows it. For Israelis and Armenians - a headache.
                1. Nazar
                  Nazar 15 October 2020 11: 19
                  +6
                  Krasnodar - I live in Siberia, the territory here generally allows the entire army of the Russian Federation to be "dispersed". that it is not that the enemy will not find it, then their commanders will not suddenly and immediately find laughing
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 15 October 2020 11: 21
                    +1
                    So that's it laughing
                    The very same Israel is forced today to develop special means against drones. Singles were spotted a couple of years ago.
                    1. Nazar
                      Nazar 15 October 2020 11: 27
                      0
                      Krasnodar - in the USSR and later in Russia, they are trying to somehow bring laser weapons to acceptable characteristics, but this, again, is a "strike part", and from whom is the detection and target designation for the same laser? And knowing the "successes" of the Russian Federation in electronics, there is no particular hope of moving forward in this area.
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 October 2020 12: 17
                        +1
                        Somewhere they will buy something from someone - if it is very critical
                      2. Nazar
                        Nazar 15 October 2020 12: 27
                        +2
                        Krasnodar - when it becomes "very critical" it will be too late to buy request
                        However, it seems that our big commanders, for some reason, are firmly convinced that there will not be a serious war, either because of nuclear weapons they have such an attitude, or maybe just with an eye on history - how many (and what!) Weapons the USSR had, where the Soviet troops were located! And what did it help to somehow protect the Union? Maybe now they have an understanding - they will not extinguish us with tanks, aircraft and missiles (drones), but just like the USSR. Hence such an attitude towards modern weapons - it seems that they have been developed here, but they do not reach the troops - in the opinion of the "higher" - there is no particular need for that now No.
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 October 2020 12: 41
                        +2
                        I don’t know, I have the impression that they are trying to develop something in critical areas and seriously oppose a potential enemy, but somewhere everything is for show. From what I know, the infantry training of all relevant combat units is at least not inferior to that of the Western District of the USSR, that is, better than the average in the Soviet Union, about air defense - I don’t know, in my opinion, everything is going a little in the wrong direction
                      4. Nazar
                        Nazar 15 October 2020 13: 12
                        +4
                        Krasnodar - I live in Ulan-Ude, there are a lot of military units around - and it is clear that the preparation is being carried out quite seriously - combat planes often frolic above my house, at night such a "boo-boo" is heard from the training ground that dogs under my sofa strive to hide laughing - which is what it is, I'm talking about rearmament for new models. In the units - everything is USSR, "Modernized" kanechna (tinted and Chinese chips instead of Soviet lamps), but still the USSR, and this country has not been for 30 years already ...
                      5. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 October 2020 13: 17
                        +4
                        A lot needs to be changed - but, gradually. The real changes will begin at the moment when Russian universities, like the Chinese, begin to outbid Americans, British, French and Germans for frenzied fees. And they will return school education to the Soviet mainstream. Until then - everything is a temporary solution.
                      6. Nazar
                        Nazar 15 October 2020 17: 07
                        +4
                        Krasnodar - Education is the basis of everything, it was then deliberately and destroyed by three ministers in a row: Filippov, Fursenko and Livanov, and now the body that is now sitting in the ministerial chair will "polish" what his predecessors have created. serious trouble - trouble programmed for years and years to come
                      7. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 15 October 2020 17: 16
                        -1
                        Not purposefully - just people were engaged in careers, political survival and anything other than the education system.
                      8. Nazar
                        Nazar 16 October 2020 03: 55
                        +1
                        Krasnodar - (minus - not mine!) - I wrote "purposefully" on the basis of the well-known statement of one of these three - the Soviet school graduated creators, and our task is to prepare qualified consumers - (not literally reproduced. But in meaning - exactly). That is, it is not an accident ("yagosti", in Buryat - it happened ...) - this was the goal. And I must say, they have achieved this goal.
                      9. your1970
                        your1970 16 October 2020 07: 23
                        +1
                        Quote: Nazar
                        the goal was. And I must say, they have achieved this goal.

                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Not purposefully - just people were engaged in careers, political survival and anything other than the education system.

                        Quote: Nazar
                        serious trouble - trouble programmed for years and years to come

                        But at the same time, no one paid attention to the fact that - exactly graduated SOVIET the school was charged with cans of water, the USSR collapsed, the industry was profiled, they made a political career, now they work as ministers ...

                        Following your logic - the USSR was preparing its collapse with its own hands, doing anything - except education ...
                        No during the exam, it was born - "If you don’t study, you’ll go to the pedagogue !!!!", in the 70s .....
                        And the attitude is appropriate - "neither earn nor steal" (by the mid-80s), extremely respectful lol "teacher", ...
                        Even in Soviet cinema they were shown as if with respect, but at the same time with an intonation - "Out of this world," "wonderful" ..
                        Even then it was clear that we must finally turn to education with our face, and not with the rear ...
                        At least the tanks of the USSR did not save, but the teachers, maybe ... If the state paid even a little attention to living people, and not to tanks ...
                      10. Nazar
                        Nazar 16 October 2020 08: 03
                        0
                        svoy1970 - quote: "Following your logic - the USSR was preparing its collapse with its own hands, doing anything - except education ...." - but isn't that so?
                        And as for what you wrote about your attitude to the teaching profession, I can add - not only teachers have such an attitude. And I will even more or less say exactly when it happened - in 1971 I entered the university at the Faculty of Civil Engineering, the competition was the highest in the city (one million city) = 7,1 people per seat, the second most popular was the Faculty of Energy of the same university = 6,2 people per seat.
                        And just two years later, the highest competition was already at the Trade Institute, and at the Polytechnic for the same Energo and Stroy faculties, two people were not recruited for a place.
                        The Khrushchev bookmark also worked - it was with him that teachers and engineers were transferred to the "2nd grade", even for a salary - an engineer began to receive less than a worker of not the highest qualifications, and there is no need to talk about teachers' salaries.
                        Well, the result is well known. I wrote about the same - what is happening now with education is a planned disaster in the near future.
  • alexmach
    alexmach 15 October 2020 10: 19
    0
    operators don't need to drive every drone

    Not necessary. This is the meaning of the concept "Roy"
  • syndicalist
    syndicalist 15 October 2020 10: 37
    +1
    Quote: Nazar
    What and how to beat such a dirty trick is not clear

    Only counter-swarm
    1. standan
      standan 15 October 2020 11: 28
      0
      Powerful electromagnetic pulse
      1. syndicalist
        syndicalist 15 October 2020 11: 30
        0
        Only a nuclear explosion will provide sufficient power for such a pulse. But is it worth blowing up over your head?
        1. standan
          standan 15 October 2020 11: 36
          -1
          Not necessarily, only a powerful source of energy is needed, which can be, among other things, a nuclear reactor
          1. syndicalist
            syndicalist 15 October 2020 12: 32
            +1
            It's hardly wise to keep a nuclear reactor over your head
            1. standan
              standan 15 October 2020 15: 56
              0
              And why keep it above your head? Or you, besides a nuclear explosion, do not know any other ways to obtain EMP?
              1. syndicalist
                syndicalist 15 October 2020 17: 25
                0
                Give a practical example of a non-nuclear EMP source capable of disabling shielded electronics at a distance.
                1. Leon68
                  Leon68 15 October 2020 19: 23
                  0
                  "Elabuga"
  • Nasdaq
    Nasdaq 15 October 2020 11: 07
    0
    Probably you need to protect yourself from smart electronics using electronics (EW). Modern missiles, missiles and artillery shells use GPS. UAVs use radio channels. Of course, it is difficult to score all the frequencies, but if it succeeds, then the enemy, who strongly hoped for modern wunderwaffe, will be unpleasantly surprised by the imposed tank battle.
    Therefore, I think that electronic warfare will develop in parallel with the UAV, since it is not an easy task to shoot down these drones with missiles.
    As my teacher of ethics and aesthetics used to say: even the most cunning ass has a bolt and a screw. (He expressed himself uncensored)
    1. Prahlad
      Prahlad 15 October 2020 11: 36
      +2
      Rab is not a panacea, in the near future the drones will be autonomous and the rab will fly by here. PVo against such a pack is useless. There is no solution yet.
      1. syndicalist
        syndicalist 15 October 2020 12: 43
        0
        Quote: Prahlad
        There is no solution yet.

        Possibly a counter-swarm of fighter drones. They can be an order of magnitude smaller than drums in size, which means that their number is an order of magnitude larger.
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 15 October 2020 14: 14
        -1
        Self-propelled laser units with a capacity of 300 kW and anti-aircraft rapid-fire cannons with a programmable ammunition fuse.
  • venik
    venik 15 October 2020 11: 48
    +1
    Quote: Nazar
    it is possible that they themselves in this group will be able to distribute goals among themselves.

    ======
    Do you know how much they will then cost? Much more expensive, with potential targets! Not! "The game is not worth the candle!" It is easier to use the principle of "synchronous control - the same control commands are given to EVERYONE AT THE SAME TIME!"
  • orionvitt
    orionvitt 15 October 2020 17: 57
    0
    Quote: Nazar
    What and how to beat such a dirty trick is not clear

    What can be incomprehensible here. Everything has been described for a long time and I think it was developed. They all boast about the development of the latest "devices", in the form of drones and the rest of the high-tech component, but they still do not spread much about the development of countermeasures. And the means are surprisingly simple (especially for such "kids"), jammers, electronic warfare systems, EMP installations, which, with one impulse, will burn out the electronics of the entire swarm in the whole sector. Various small-sized lasers that can easily blind cameras and much more that we can only guess about and that have long been in service with various armies. The design idea does not stand still. And if one invented something "advanced", then surely there will be another who will come up with real methods of counteraction. So don't worry.
    1. your1970
      your1970 16 October 2020 07: 34
      0
      Quote: orionvitt
      electronic warfare systems, EMP installations, which with one pulse will burn out the electronics of the entire swarm in the whole sector.

      And the enemy has them NOTICE no???!!!
      And the blow of THEIR EMP on our electronics before the attack by drones on US is something from the realm of fantasy ??? !!
      Or the sequential release of one swarm - fixing the working electronic warfare installations - hitting them with artillery - and a cherry - hitting targets with a second swarm, not ??? also fantastic ???
      1. orionvitt
        orionvitt 17 October 2020 13: 38
        0
        Quote: your1970
        And the enemy does not LEAVE them?

        Which opponent? If the enemy is like an underachieve with under-supply, like Armenia and Azerbaijan, then certainly not. And then they bought a dozen modern drones, and now they boast that they are keeping up with the times. laughing The armament of a modern army must be balanced in all directions. Both in offensive and defensive types of weapons, and at all levels and in all branches of the armed forces. And this can only be afforded by exceptionally large powers that can be counted on one hand. If someone like Ukraine buys drones from Turkey, then the Armed Forces of Ukraine absolutely do not become stronger and more combat-ready, because in other areas, it is a complete failure.
        1. your1970
          your1970 17 October 2020 19: 04
          0
          Quote: orionvitt
          If the enemy is like an underachieve with under-supply, like Armenia and Azerbaijan, then certainly not.
          -and such an enemy may decide to fight with us [b] [/ b] ??? right here to take and declare war on the Russian Federation ???
          And if the enemy is serious - China for example - then what?
  • Vadim_888
    Vadim_888 16 October 2020 15: 56
    +1
    ... How and how to beat such a dirty trick is not clear fellow

    Here we need Baron Jerome Karl Friedrich von Munchausen with his shotgun from the chimney wassat
  • Livonetc
    Livonetc 15 October 2020 09: 15
    +7
    Apparently, mainly autopilot in a bundle and coordination by the leading or leading vehicles of this swarm, which in turn can be controlled by the operator.
    In case of loss of communication, apparently they can act according to the laid down program, attacking a pre-selected target or choose the target independently according to the laid down algorithm.
    It is even possible to consolidate the processing power of an entire swarm.
    Yes, in principle, and Granit missiles have long been able to act autonomously as part of a group with joint coordination, and even choose their own targets in a group of targets.
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 15 October 2020 09: 30
      +5
      Quote: Livonetc
      Apparently, mainly autopilot in a bundle and coordination by the leading or leading vehicles of this swarm, which in turn can be controlled by the operator.

      It is possible that this is exactly the case. It seems that practicing beautiful group aerobatics (light figures in the sky) also has a military aspect. Such swarms can be jammed, apparently, by electromagnetic ammunition with controlled detonation. They have powerful impulses, but not very far-reaching, 50 meters in diameter. And the caliber of such ammunition reached 57 mm and even less. In the range of such impulses, the electronics "stalls" for a while, or irrevocably breaks down. How to put such a drone in the microwave. Such ammunition was developed in Russia, who is interested, let him look for books by Prischepenko ... Very informative.
  • stalki
    stalki 15 October 2020 09: 32
    +1
    No fucking wunderwuff!
    I wonder how many operators it takes to control a full salvo?
    Or can only a limited number of UAVs be lifted simultaneously?
    Judging by the fact that ours staged in St. Petersburg for 75 wins from 2000 quadcopters, the number can vary quite widely http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=qYpycHzsNAo
  • Vol4ara
    Vol4ara 15 October 2020 09: 48
    +3
    Quote: Victor_B
    No fucking wunderwuff!
    I wonder how many operators it takes to control a full salvo?
    Or can only a limited number of UAVs be lifted simultaneously?

    No one. Especially so that the beloved rab here cannot do anything, they are completely autonomous, the operator leads them while there is an opportunity, then they act on their own. A couple of these machines and hello fiery carapace and torus, shoot down 100 drones, good luck
    1. Mirakuru
      Mirakuru 15 October 2020 10: 49
      +1
      Against this, probably the best option would be Alabuga, only nothing is heard or seen about it, or, as an option, to create a ground version of this rocket, which will release EMP to burn the schemes, and after this it is unlikely that you will fly anywhere, not to mention already about choosing a goal.
      1. Vol4ara
        Vol4ara 15 October 2020 10: 59
        0
        Quote: Mirakuru
        Against this, probably the best option would be Alabuga, only nothing is heard or seen about it, or, as an option, to create a ground version of this rocket, which will release EMP to burn the schemes, and after this it is unlikely that you will fly anywhere, not to mention already about choosing a goal.

        Perhaps as an option. But nothing is really heard about her and it is not known how far Amy effectively spreads, drones can fly at a distance of kilometers from each other. Well, it will cost more than all these 50 drones.
        1. Mirakuru
          Mirakuru 15 October 2020 14: 20
          +1
          This is yes, but it will clearly be cheaper than those objects that may be damaged during an attack by drones, and given the breakthrough in compact nuclear reactors, it is possible to make a ground system that will give out an impulse when drones approach. Well, at a distance of kilometers, they can probably fly, but there is probably no point in this, a swarm of drones was created to fly in a handful.
          1. Vol4ara
            Vol4ara 15 October 2020 15: 05
            0
            Quote: Mirakuru
            This is yes, but it will clearly be cheaper than those objects that may be damaged during an attack by drones, and given the breakthrough in compact nuclear reactors, it is possible to make a ground system that will give out an impulse when drones approach. Well, at a distance of kilometers, they can probably fly, but there is probably no point in this, a swarm of drones was created to fly in a handful.

            Not a single yao, even an industrial one, will be able to give out such an impulse that occurs when the UVI is undermined.
            And no, a swarm is a convention meaning that all individual units are connected in a network, and they exchange information, assign roles. They shouldn't fly in a bunch from the word suck
            1. Mirakuru
              Mirakuru 15 October 2020 15: 57
              +1
              This swarm of drones is still very far away, too much will have to be done. By a swarm of drones, I meant a bunch of small kamikaze drones that would stupidly crush meat. Which, even if half of the group is lost, will reach the target and destroy it, that's why I'm talking about a handful.
              1. Vol4ara
                Vol4ara 15 October 2020 16: 41
                +1
                Quote: Mirakuru
                This swarm of drones is still very far away, too much will have to be done. By a swarm of drones, I meant a bunch of small kamikaze drones that would stupidly crush meat. Which, even if half of the group is lost, will reach the target and destroy it, that's why I'm talking about a handful.

                Those drones about which this article fly on the network and in the event of a loss of connection with the operator, for example, due to the radio, they themselves assign roles and look for targets. And similar systems, only more developed, are in Israel and the United States. The future you are talking about has already come. And those drones you are talking about, meat drones are already the last century
                1. Mirakuru
                  Mirakuru 15 October 2020 19: 39
                  +2
                  Only the drones that are listed in the article are the same kamikaze drones that you are talking about last century. And no matter what developed systems Israel and the United States have, they do not have such a system that will launch a swarm of drones that will fly in a certain territory and choose their targets. The maximum they will do is to endure everything that they light up, for example, on a thermal imager. But what's the point then? For drones to fly by themselves and choose targets, they need not weak brains, but even better artificial intelligence. There is no such thing yet, at least my friend thinks so.
                  1. Vol4ara
                    Vol4ara 15 October 2020 21: 58
                    0
                    Quote: Mirakuru
                    Only the drones that are listed in the article are the same kamikaze drones that you are talking about last century. And no matter what developed systems Israel and the United States have, they do not have such a system that will launch a swarm of drones that will fly in a certain territory and choose their targets. The maximum they will do is to endure everything that they light up, for example, on a thermal imager. But what's the point then? For drones to fly by themselves and choose targets, they need not weak brains, but even better artificial intelligence. There is no such thing yet, at least my friend thinks so.

                    Here are the drones that are higher, do exactly what you wrote about, they themselves look for signatures stored in the memory and attack. Again, this is one of the modes, you can also manually
  • alexmach
    alexmach 15 October 2020 10: 16
    -1
    I wonder how many operators it takes to control a full salvo?

    Odyn, quite the same.
    Cool thing, barrage ammunition.
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 15 October 2020 10: 34
    0
    Quote: Victor_B
    how many operators do you need to control a full salvo?

    Answer in article
    up to 11 drones fly in a swarm-like formation. The operator controls their movement using the touch screen
    means 4 operators for a full salvo.
  • venik
    venik 15 October 2020 10: 57
    +1
    Quote: Victor_B
    I wonder how many operators it takes to control a full salvo?

    ======
    Perhaps only one! Then the whole flock controlled synchronously and also maneuvers like a school of fish in the sea!
  • Interlocutor
    Interlocutor 15 October 2020 11: 10
    0
    I wonder how many operators it takes to control a full salvo?

    Perhaps the devices fly in a semi-automatic mode and the right to strike either automatically switches from drone to drone, or when the operator selects a target to the nearest to the target.
    But the sky is probably buzzing at this time ......... laughing
  • YOUR
    YOUR 15 October 2020 12: 39
    +1
    I think that even one person can manage. First, the reconnaissance, identification and distribution of the target is all automated. After defining targets, the attack is automatic. The distribution of goals can be done by a computer, and not too large, such as a laptop.
    While the ranges are small, but they devalue air defense instantly.
    Quite expectedly, simplified missiles with thermobaric ammunition because to shoot from cannons at such targets to transfer shells, and launching modern missiles at them can be compared with hammering a nail with a microscope.
    Another strengthening of electronic warfare.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 15 October 2020 16: 55
    0
    Maybe they will launch into a certain area ... and they themselves will look for military targets there. And in order of importance to rank and attack.
  • Same lech
    Same lech 15 October 2020 08: 55
    +9
    This is something else ... when the programs of these drones introduce all the data about a person ... a face, voice acoustics, a smell ... then you can only get away from them to the next world ... unless of course you bury yourself in the ground. ..with the development of digital technologies and tracking sensors, the possibilities of drones as air, sea, ground, underground are already starting to really scare ... even Isaac Asimov did not think of this. belay
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 15 October 2020 09: 02
      14
      Well, with what Azerbaijan is fighting now - in fact, these are technologies of the 00s. Harop and TV2, as well as our own crafts based on the technology database.

      Technology today is swarms, cheap drones per hour of flight that even infantry can launch. Electric motors + high performance batteries = compact and acoustic / IR discreet.

      Technology tomorrow is the ability to load signatures of targets already on the launch pad, highlight the search and destruction area, shoot and forget. Roy himself will find targets, work out priorities, overlaps and destroy everything. Autonomous, without communication with the operator. And this is already technology tomorrow. That is, on the doorstep. A question of years, not decades.
      1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
        Sidor Amenpodestovich 15 October 2020 09: 19
        -2
        Quote: donavi49
        load target signatures

        And if a device is installed on the equipment that will constantly change the signature, what should I do then?
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 15 October 2020 09: 29
          +3
          Which one? There TPV + a conventional camera with a zoom. Even such kids with teplaki fly for example.



          The adaptive won't be applied massively for a long time. It's not just expensive, it's incredibly expensive. It's cheaper to burn this tank, even with the crew together. Well, in battle, Adaptive is not a fact that it will live long. Over there, in Syria, skirts were torn off in battles, and here is an oversensitive multi-layer tile. I dropped something on it and now your pixel is shining.
          1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
            Sidor Amenpodestovich 15 October 2020 09: 31
            -1
            Which one? There TPV + a conventional camera with a zoom. Even such kids with teplaki fly for example.

            For example, something like "Curtains".
            1. donavi49
              donavi49 15 October 2020 09: 38
              +4
              And how will she help ??? Aerosol fumes? Well, the UAV will go to the second round and on a new one. By IR illumination? So you can write logic - in this case, look for overheated searchlights in the optical field by the red eyes.

              It is difficult to work against dual-mode systems (TPV + optics). And miniaturization allows you to make stabilized balls in very small dimensions.
              1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                Sidor Amenpodestovich 15 October 2020 09: 45
                -1
                Okay. But what if you shoot a small anti-aircraft missile with a bunch of submunitions towards the swarm?
                You can also, for example, arrange a continuous flare.
                And what is TPV? Maybe you meant TVP?
                1. donavi49
                  donavi49 15 October 2020 09: 57
                  -1
                  thermal imager.
                  1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                    Sidor Amenpodestovich 15 October 2020 10: 00
                    0
                    Quote: donavi49
                    thermal imager.

                    That is, a thermal imaging sight, TVP?
                    Tell me, if each drone in a swarm operates autonomously, then how to avoid collisions of drones with each other?
                    But if they exchange information with each other, what will happen if such a signal is suppressed?
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 15 October 2020 10: 17
                      +4
                      decent modern drones have obstacle collision protection
                      1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                        Sidor Amenpodestovich 15 October 2020 10: 21
                        +1
                        Quote: Avior
                        decent modern drones have obstacle collision protection

                        So they have transceivers.
                        What happens if you prevent them from transmitting?
                        Although, of course, you can provide them with a kind of cat vibrissa. But in this case, you need the crazy performance of both internal electronics and movers.
                      2. Avior
                        Avior 15 October 2020 10: 35
                        +1
                        not necessarily radio
                        we experimented with our Mavic in this regard - it works very reliably
                        Obstacle detection and collision avoidance technology Many drones are equipped with collision avoidance systems. The artificial vision system uses obstacle detection sensors to scan the environment, while software algorithms and SLAM technology translate images into XNUMXD maps, allowing the flight controller to detect an object and avoid it.
                        These systems combine one or more of the following sensors to detect and avoid obstacles; • Image sensor • Ultrasonic • Infrared • Lidar • Time of flight (ToF) • Monocular vision

                        The latest DJI Mavic 2 Pro and Mavic 2 Zoom are capable of 6-sided obstacle detection. The Mavic 2 uses both image sensors and infrared sensors built into a surveillance system known as omnidirectional obstacle sensing. The DJI Mavic 2 Obstacle Sensing System takes it to the next level where it can actually fly around obstacles from the front or backward. If the drone is unable to determine the flight path around the object, it will hover in front of the obstacle. This is called APAS (Advanced Pilot Assistance System) and is used on the DJI Mavic 2 and Mavic Air drones.

                      3. Keyser soze
                        Keyser soze 15 October 2020 11: 24
                        +1
                        we experimented with our Mavic in this regard - it works very reliably


                        I can confirm - my Mavic 2 Pro flies around and scans obstacles from 6 sides very reliably and in APAS mode follows objects or the operator. And there are already other drones that, in sport mode, can follow a cyclist in the forest. Algorithms evolve hour by hour.
                2. Vol4ara
                  Vol4ara 15 October 2020 10: 24
                  0
                  Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
                  Quote: donavi49
                  thermal imager.

                  That is, a thermal imaging sight, TVP?
                  Tell me, if each drone in a swarm operates autonomously, then how to avoid collisions of drones with each other?
                  But if they exchange information with each other, what will happen if such a signal is suppressed?

                  A swarm is not like bees next to each other, but the distance between drones and can be several kilometers
                  1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                    Sidor Amenpodestovich 15 October 2020 10: 49
                    -3
                    Quote: Vol4ara
                    A swarm is not like bees next to each other, but the distance between drones and can be several kilometers

                    Therefore, some kind of "Pantsir-C1" is not only missile, but also cannon.

                    I do not argue that drones, either individually or alone, are very promising weapons. But to be fascinated by them, and to perceive them as some kind of ultimatum weapon, against which there is no defense, is still, in my opinion, premature.
                  2. Vol4ara
                    Vol4ara 15 October 2020 10: 57
                    +3
                    Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
                    Quote: Vol4ara
                    A swarm is not like bees next to each other, but the distance between drones and can be several kilometers

                    Therefore, some kind of "Pantsir-C1" is not only missile, but also cannon.

                    I do not argue that drones, either individually or alone, are very promising weapons. But to be fascinated by them, and to perceive them as some kind of ultimatum weapon, against which there is no defense, is still, in my opinion, premature.

                    But there is no defense against them. Cost a penny. Those 50 drones that a car launches don't cost a quarter of a tank, but most likely much cheaper. They will take 3 such cars, launch 150 drones, shoot them down with a Shell or a torus ...
                  3. Airdefense
                    Airdefense 16 October 2020 15: 16
                    +1
                    Therefore, some kind of "Pantsir-C1" is not only missile, but also cannon.

                    And this gun, judging by the results of the training firing by the Pantsirei group, does not work very well for UAVs.
          2. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 15 October 2020 16: 16
            0
            What if the swarm is distributed over a large space? At different heights? How many "striking elements" do you need? In addition, such a "swarm" attack method is also possible ... "multi-stage" ... That is, the "swarm" is launched ... the "swarm" drones can approach the object from different directions ... Moreover ... part the "swarm" can hover at a certain distance from the object ... The object is attacked by the rest of the "swarm" ... drones can attack both from one direction and from different directions ... At the second stage, the object is attacked by the "backup" UAVs .. ., working on the identified air defense systems ... Reserve drones may not "hover" in the air, but land near the object, waiting for their "turn"! Can be in electromagnetic pulse protection mode ...
        2. Vadim_888
          Vadim_888 16 October 2020 16: 11
          0
          ... ... And miniaturization allows you to make stabilized balls in very small dimensions.

          Everything is new, this is a well-forgotten old - the smaller the ammunition, the lower its speed along the attack trajectory and the more likely it is to damage it when approaching the target, it is enough to disrupt the plumage and it will miss,
          As a counter-projectile, a canister charge, hi
  • Insurgent
    Insurgent 15 October 2020 09: 06
    +4
    Quote: The same Lech
    This is something else ... when the programs of these drones introduce all the data about a person ... a face, voice acoustics, a smell ... then you can only get away from them to the next world ... unless of course you bury yourself in the ground. ..with the development of digital technologies and tracking sensors, the possibilities of drones as air, sea, ground, underground are already starting to really scare ... even Isaac Asimov did not think of this. belay


    I've been reading all these "high-tech NEWS", and I am perplexed - WHERE IS RUSSIA?
    1. moscowp
      moscowp 15 October 2020 09: 21
      +4
      Russia only drone show shows
      https://youtu.be/i-sYdbvmcBU

      I have little faith in the possibility of rapid development of these technologies in our mo. It is not enough fools to work with them. If there is no cronyism, then you will not earn money either, and you can easily increase the term. Here we need new brains and knowledge in the field of AI, which in state-owned enterprises working in the interests of the Ministry of Defense is absent or practically nonexistent, and commercial companies with IO, as I wrote, are in no hurry to work.
      1. CSKA
        CSKA 15 October 2020 10: 01
        -1
        Quote: moscowp
        and knowledge in the field of AI

        Check out Cognitive Technologies before writing.
        Quote: moscowp
        working in the interests of the MO is not present or practically not, and commercial companies with MO, as I wrote, are in no hurry to work.

        The Kalashnikov Concern and Kronstadt AFK Sistema are working in the interests of the Ministry of Defense.
        1. moscowp
          moscowp 15 October 2020 10: 47
          0
          I don’t need to read, and so I know how I work with contractors, not the newspapers. And the salary of a good AI specialist, I think, is more than Shoigu's salary and they have huge competition in the commercial market, so they will not go to any federal state unitary enterprise
          1. CSKA
            CSKA 15 October 2020 15: 29
            -1
            Quote: moscowp
            I don't need to read, and so I know how I work with contractors, not the newspapers.

            And here is how the Ministry of Defense works with contractors, if you write:
            Quote: moscowp
            New brains and knowledge in the field of AI are needed here, which are not available in state-owned enterprises working in the interests of the Ministry of Defense

            Why state-owned enterprises if Leko can be ordered from Cognitive Technologies ?! And I think they order.
            Quote: moscowp
            And the salary of a good AI specialist, I think, is higher than the salary of Shoigu and they have huge competition in the commercial market, so they will not go to some federal state unitary enterprise

            Do you think they will not go to work in one of Rostec's structures working in software and AI development? Do you think Rostec has small salaries?
            1. moscowp
              moscowp 15 October 2020 15: 46
              +1
              Nikolai Nosov has a story called "Fantasies". I myself like to dream up sometimes ...
              1. CSKA
                CSKA 15 October 2020 16: 25
                -2
                Quote: moscowp
                Nikolai Nosov has a story called "Fantasies". I myself like to dream up sometimes ..

                So I did not understand Che. All that you wrote above is fantasy?
                1. moscowp
                  moscowp 15 October 2020 16: 30
                  +1
                  So learn to understand first, and then write
                  1. CSKA
                    CSKA 15 October 2020 17: 10
                    -2
                    Quote: moscowp
                    So learn to understand first, and then write

                    That's how they answered.))))) If you have nothing to answer, say so.
          2. Airdefense
            Airdefense 16 October 2020 15: 20
            +2
            the salary of a good AI specialist, I think, is more than the salary of Shoigu and they have huge competition in the commercial market, so they will not go to some federal state unitary enterprise

            As now working in this field (computer vision) and abroad, I will say that you are greatly mistaken, the salary is plus / minus in the programmers market, but I agree with the pessimism about the prospects in Russia, the fact is that all these research institutes, federal state unitary enterprises (I have experience in in the past in the field of radiolactivation), offer salaries well below the market.
            1. moscowp
              moscowp 16 October 2020 15: 37
              0
              Yes, I apologize, I underestimated the current salaries of ministers, apparently raised. I looked at the declarations for the last year, the income was 12 million rubles, about 200 thousand dollars per year.
              I think you are also wrong. Abroad, perhaps. But in Russia there is now a peak in demand for such specialists, vacuuming everyone from the market at least somehow similar to the date of Scientists / AI specialists. Salaries are higher than the average for the programmers market. But, undoubtedly, all this will normalize as the labor market is saturated with specialists of this profile.
              1. Airdefense
                Airdefense 16 October 2020 15: 54
                +1
                Well, look there is a Russian resource hh, we type there in the search Machine learning, in Moscow
                https://hh.ru/search/vacancy?area=1&fromSearchLine=true&st=searchVacancy&text=Machine+learning&from=suggest_post

                Salaries are higher than the average for the programmers market.
                Everything is still relative, the average programmer is an average one in a vacuum, everything is determined by supply and demand. For example, about 3 years ago, the Central Bank decided to submit reports for professional trading participants in XBRL format and, as usual, these participants scored, but when the deadline came, one broker was looking for such specialists who could sell and offered up to 1 million rubles per month on a short contract. (my friend was one of these specialists)
                AI is also very different, this is computer vision, and word processing (NLP) and various recommender systems, and even to a heap of everything. And the deficit for machine learning specialists is no worse / better than for specialists, for example, in 3D graphics, system specialists, and just literate specialists.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. moscowp
                  moscowp 16 October 2020 16: 09
                  0
                  I understand what you are talking about, there is no contradiction with my statements. Specifically, now there is a shortage of specialists in the field of AI, and in almost all aspects of what is meant by AI. A number of large employers are looking for several thousand AI specialists in the labor market. And the salary of 150 tr for a junior specialist in this field from hh, I believe, is higher than the salary of an average junior programmer in the Russian Federation
                  1. Airdefense
                    Airdefense 16 October 2020 16: 26
                    0
                    A number of large employers are looking for several thousand AI specialists in the labor market. And the salary of 150 tr for a junior specialist in this field from hh, I believe, is higher than the salary of an average junior programmer in the Russian Federation

                    Everything is so, but paying 150 to a junior is most likely talking about R&D centers of Western companies in Moscow, they also offer developers and from other regions on junior positions, the current ruble exchange rate allows paying more, 150 thousand is a little less than 2k $.
                    By the way, in my opinion, the emphasis is wrong here, in machine leaning, and indeed in AI, there is nothing magical and super complicated, accessible to most of the capable students, but microelectronics, in my opinion, is much more important, especially in the context of such UAVs where it is necessary to fit into small the dimensions are all.
                    But in any case, Shoigu receives more than even the seniors on Google from those on average $ 200k per year before taxes.
  • Nazar
    Nazar 15 October 2020 09: 17
    -1
    The same LYOKHA - As for drones with a face recognition system, it is still a question of how many people will be affected by such drones, but in the Moscow metro they will soon be allowed to pass only through such a system, this will affect millions. And Asimov to Sobyanin, oh, how far away, the Moscow mayor is still a "fantastic" laughing
    1. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara 15 October 2020 10: 30
      +1
      Quote: Nazar
      The same LYOKHA - As for drones with a face recognition system, it is still a question of how many people will be affected by such drones, but in the Moscow metro they will soon be allowed to pass only through such a system, this will affect millions. And Asimov to Sobyanin, oh, how far away, the Moscow mayor is still a "fantastic" laughing

      Today in the subway they detained a man who hit a girl and ran away. They detained him because he lowered his mask and fell under the camera, then the neural network identified him and gave his coordinates to the cops. She would have found him in the mask too, but more time is needed. And if the face is closed, then you can get ahead of the narrow circle in gait, it is very individual. Therefore, if you hide from the state, then it is definitely not in the cities, this is already like a sentence, you screwed up - go live in the taiga. Or walk constantly in a hood, mask, glasses, look at the floor, put something under the heel in one shoe. But in this outfit, you can already raise questions from a simple patrol :)
    2. moscowp
      moscowp 15 October 2020 10: 50
      0
      To hell with their faces, that's a technique they can / will be able to recognize very well for sure. This means that if not already, then very soon, autonomous drones will appear without operator control and radio channel, which will themselves look for suitable targets in the square set before the flight.
      1. your1970
        your1970 16 October 2020 07: 47
        0
        Quote: moscowp
        very soon, autonomous drones will appear without operator control and radio channel, which will themselves search for suitable targets in the square set before the flight.

        AND? Did he find a tank and? How much can he raise explosives to damage the tank? If there is enough for destruction, then there will not be many such drones - large and expensive ...
        1. Airdefense
          Airdefense 16 October 2020 15: 21
          +1
          So he can hit it not in the frontal armor, hit from above on the engine compartment.
          1. your1970
            your1970 16 October 2020 16: 52
            -1
            Quote: Airdefense
            So he can hit it not in the frontal armor, hit from above on the engine compartment.
            -if there is even a little armor there - 1 kg of explosives will not do anything, and 5-10 kg will dramatically increase the drone in size and cost
  • alexmach
    alexmach 15 October 2020 10: 23
    0
    even Isaac Asimov did not think of this before

    Robert Sheckley "Guardian Bird". Read it.
    Azimov thought about something else, by the way, too, is now very relevant.
  • Vadim_888
    Vadim_888 16 October 2020 19: 19
    0
    Buy a shotgun, you will shoot at a short distance, and God forbid you walk on the street without an umbrellalaughing
  • New Year day
    New Year day 15 October 2020 08: 58
    +2
    in continuation of yesterday's theme! Oh yes, the Chinese! Although because everyone buys similar products from him, why not. The scouts do not need steel - released a cloud and look
  • OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 15 October 2020 09: 01
    -2
    4 players in this market are the USA, Israel, China, Turkey. They all have analogues of similar systems "


    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 15 October 2020 09: 12
      -4
      Quote: OgnennyiKotik
      4 players in this market are the USA, Israel, China, Turkey. They all have analogues of similar systems "

      As expected, Iran will soon "catch up", and Russia ... Russia is somewhere "in the tail" is lagging ...

      Is it possible that such aircraft models and software for them are something overwhelming, for example, for the same "scientific mouths" about which a lot has been said, but somehow calmed down?
      1. alexmach
        alexmach 15 October 2020 10: 29
        -1
        Is it possible that such aircraft models and software for them are something overwhelming, for example, for the same "scientific mouths" about which a lot has been said, but somehow calmed down?

        What has calmed down? Engineering work is like that - not fast, and not always for parades. Probably working on something.
        They are not something heavy. But we also need to work on this. Just work. And this is not easy.
      2. vitvit123
        vitvit123 15 October 2020 11: 37
        0
        Let's hope we're not the only smart ones. In Moscow Region, I think people are smarter than us, and the work is going on. The defense industry has pleasantly surprised us in recent years.
      3. 113262a
        113262a 15 October 2020 13: 06
        0
        Again, twenty-five! Well, RF does not make microelectronics and microdrives! Bourgeois with the Chinese are doing, Russia is not! As well as military lithium batteries, so cheap and cheerful. Hence the lag!
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 15 October 2020 09: 01
    +9
    Quote: The same LYOKHA
    even Isaac Asimov did not think of this before

    Isaac is not.
    And Robert, our beloved Sheckley, thought of it!
    "Guardian Bird".
    In the story, an autonomous drone preempts the criminal by attacking after receiving specific brain waves of the scoundrel.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 15 October 2020 09: 06
      0
      In the story, an autonomous drone preempts the criminal by attacking after receiving specific brain waves of the scoundrel.

      You're scaring me ... if the AI ​​still learns to read our thoughts ... My God ... where are we going.
      1. Avior
        Avior 15 October 2020 10: 21
        +1
        .... Thought-crime cannot be hidden forever. You can dodge for a while, and not even one year, but sooner or later they will get to you. It always happened at night - they were arrested at night. Suddenly they wake you up, a rough hand shakes you by the shoulders, shines in your eyes, the bed is surrounded by stern faces. As a rule, there was no trial, and no arrest was reported anywhere. People just disappeared, and always at night. Your name has been removed from the lists, all references to what you did have been erased, the fact of your existence is denied and will be forgotten. You are canceled, destroyed: as they say, scattered ...

        smile
      2. alexmach
        alexmach 15 October 2020 10: 30
        +1
        Do not worry, in the story we have found a solution to the problem .. we will also find ...
    2. Archivist Vasya
      Archivist Vasya 15 October 2020 10: 25
      0
      Robert is our favorite Sheckley

      In the old radio show "Model for Assembly" the host, Vlad Kopp, often mentions this very phrase))
      Have you heard stories from the MDC or just a coincidence?
    3. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara 15 October 2020 10: 35
      -1
      Quote: Comrade Kim
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      even Isaac Asimov did not think of this before

      Isaac is not.
      And Robert, our beloved Sheckley, thought of it!
      "Guardian Bird".
      In the story, an autonomous drone preempts the criminal by attacking after receiving specific brain waves of the scoundrel.

      In Pelevin's snuff, the main character is the operator of an invisible flying camera filming the war of underdeveloped peoples, in the book they are called orcs. Developed peoples themselves provoke them to war, essentially for the sake of content, so that there is something to shoot
  • KAVBER
    KAVBER 15 October 2020 09: 05
    -13 qualifying.
    One tactical nuclear warhead and no swarm or queen
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 15 October 2020 09: 23
      +2
      One tactical nuclear warhead and no swarm or queen

      By this time, your tactical nuclear charge will be covered by the kamikaze drone earlier ... if a sensitive radiation sensor is stuck into it ... it remains only to detonate on this charge yourself.
      1. Vol4ara
        Vol4ara 15 October 2020 10: 36
        +3
        Quote: The same Lech
        One tactical nuclear warhead and no swarm or queen

        By this time, your tactical nuclear charge will be covered by the kamikaze drone earlier ... if a sensitive radiation sensor is stuck into it ... it remains only to detonate on this charge yourself.

        There is no problem in shielding.
        Another thing is to bang yao over your head on drones, ahahaha, but you have to be an idiot :)
        1. KAVBER
          KAVBER 15 October 2020 18: 56
          -1
          But there were such options in the USSR for the air defense of Moscow, do you think everyone was there?
          1. Vol4ara
            Vol4ara 15 October 2020 19: 02
            0
            Quote: KAVBER
            But there were such options in the USSR for the air defense of Moscow, do you think everyone was there?

            They are still there and not options, but the current system A 235 Nudol. But they do not shoot tactical yao at drones, but with a pro missile with a nuclear warhead at intercontinental ballistic missiles and the interception occurs in lower earth orbit, and not overhead
        2. your1970
          your1970 16 October 2020 07: 52
          0
          Quote: Vol4ara
          Quote: The same Lech
          One tactical nuclear warhead and no swarm or queen

          By this time, your tactical nuclear charge will be covered by the kamikaze drone earlier ... if a sensitive radiation sensor is stuck into it ... it remains only to detonate on this charge yourself.

          There is no problem in shielding.
          Another thing is to bang yao over your head on drones, ahahaha, but you have to be an idiot :)

          You don't need to over your head ... We'll have to tear up the enemy's General Staff and NOT tactical ...
      2. KAVBER
        KAVBER 15 October 2020 18: 58
        -1
        Your swarm will not even have time to take off, like a boom and that's it, you need to beat it preemptively, proactively, and not wait until mosquitoes bite you
  • rocket757
    rocket757 15 October 2020 09: 08
    +5
    there is currently no defense against such an attack.

    So it is necessary to create such means and adopt a program for equipping troops with them.
    It is clear that there will be more and more drones and other unmanned vehicles; the means of leveling such a threat should not lag behind in their development.
  • Sidor Amenpodestovich
    Sidor Amenpodestovich 15 October 2020 09: 12
    +1
    I wonder if something like "Mercury-B" can be used against kamikaze drones, loitering ammunition?
    1. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara 15 October 2020 10: 39
      +2
      Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
      I wonder if something like "Mercury-B" can be used against kamikaze drones, loitering ammunition?

      No, drones don't have a radio fuse
    2. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara 15 October 2020 10: 40
      0
      Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
      I wonder if something like "Mercury-B" can be used against kamikaze drones, loitering ammunition?

      No, drones don't have a radio fuse
  • tlauicol
    tlauicol 15 October 2020 09: 14
    +5
    Eighth Egyptian execution
  • Grievous
    Grievous 15 October 2020 09: 23
    +1
    And where is Tsap-tsarapych?
  • moscowp
    moscowp 15 October 2020 09: 40
    +1
    Interesting article, thanks
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 15 October 2020 09: 40
    +3
    Lasers as short-range air defense began to be developed and used very early.
    Only the laser will have time to shoot the swarm one by one. Zero seconds to hit. Two seconds to destroy or damage.
    But the guidance system must have a strong centimeter-millimeter radar and a powerful computer.
  • Operator
    Operator 15 October 2020 09: 52
    +4
    A swarm of 48 loitering ammunition of a penny cost is a complete ash of any air defense system, the channel of which is less than the specified value (i.e., to all Russian air defense systems without exception).

    The only defense is the salvo firing of 100 short-range anti-aircraft missiles (equipped with PRGSN) of the "nails" or MNTK type with illumination from a low-power surveillance radar with a range of 2-3 kilometers.
    1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich 15 October 2020 10: 14
      -1
      Quote: Operator
      A swarm of 48 loitering ammunition of a penny cost is a complete ash of any air defense system, the channel of which is less than the specified value (i.e., to all Russian air defense systems without exception).

      Why should an air defense system target every drone? He can perceive the swarm as one large target, and fire several missiles with submunitions towards it, taking into account the fact that the swarm may disperse.
      1. Operator
        Operator 15 October 2020 10: 41
        +2
        The swarm can simultaneously fly up to the air defense missile system from all angles - so that at least one missile is required to destroy each loitering ammunition.
        1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
          Sidor Amenpodestovich 15 October 2020 10: 43
          -2
          Quote: Operator
          The swarm can simultaneously fly up to the air defense missile system from all angles - so that at least one missile is required to destroy each loitering ammunition.

          But to destroy individual drones, missiles are not needed, anti-aircraft artillery is enough.
          1. Operator
            Operator 15 October 2020 10: 47
            +5
            How do you imagine firing an artillery mount, for example, "Pantsir" at 48 extremely small targets, simultaneously attacking the air defense system in all azimuths of the upper hemisphere? laughing
            1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
              Sidor Amenpodestovich 15 October 2020 10: 52
              -2
              Quote: Operator
              How do you imagine firing an artillery mount, for example, "Pantsir" at 48 extremely small targets, simultaneously attacking the air defense system in all azimuths of the upper hemisphere?

              Well, they must first surround this target. Will the target be patiently waiting for this?
              1. Operator
                Operator 15 October 2020 11: 26
                +4
                And what will the target still do if the distribution of loitering ammunition in all azimuths occurs outside the air defense system's radio horizon - for example, at a flight altitude of 1 meter?
                1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                  Sidor Amenpodestovich 15 October 2020 11: 30
                  -1
                  Quote: Operator
                  And what will the target still do if the distribution of loitering ammunition in all azimuths occurs outside the air defense system's radio horizon - for example, at a flight altitude of 1 meter?

                  And what is not one centimeter? Will they also attack from a height of one meter? What characteristics do you attribute to drones, instant teleportation with simultaneous detonation?
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 15 October 2020 11: 39
                    0
                    What is the problem for a BWB with swarm functions when leaving from behind the radio horizon (~ 3 km) to rise from a height of 1 meter to the estimated attack altitude (to take its place in the all-aspect cloud)?
                    1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                      Sidor Amenpodestovich 15 October 2020 11: 49
                      0
                      Quote: Operator
                      What is the problem for a BWB with swarm functions when leaving from behind the radio horizon (~ 3 km) to rise from a height of 1 meter to the estimated attack altitude (to take its place in the all-aspect cloud)?

                      What is "bWB"?
                      At what distance from the target, to what height and at what speed can they climb?
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 15 October 2020 11: 56
                        +2
                        I meant "loitering ammunition".

                        BB speed - no more than 300 m / s, climb rate - about 20 m / s.

                        Those. BB, leaving from behind the radio horizon at a distance of 3000 m from the air defense missile system, will be able to reach the target in 10 seconds and rise to a height of 200 meters.
            2. Jacket in stock
              Jacket in stock 15 October 2020 11: 48
              -2
              Quote: Operator
              Can you imagine firing an artillery mount, for example, "Pantsir" at 48 extremely small targets

              Carapace's cannons performed very poorly even against a single drone. Apparently the trunks are completely crooked, or shells, or a sight ...
              Otherwise, yes, you need more than one for a large swarm and guns.
            3. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 15 October 2020 16: 47
              0
              Quote: Operator
              How do you imagine firing an artillery mount, for example, "Pantsir" at 48 extremely small targets, simultaneously attacking the air defense system in all azimuths of the upper hemisphere?

              That's how !
      2. Interlocutor
        Interlocutor 15 October 2020 11: 15
        +4
        Why should an air defense system target every drone? He can perceive the swarm as one large target, and fire several missiles with submunitions towards it, taking into account the fact that the swarm may disperse.

        It seems to me that someone will soon look towards creating drones for drone hunters.
        Over the area where the unit is located, 5 of its drones will fly and attack anyone that appears in this area or zone. (as an example, well, or some other option)
      3. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 15 October 2020 16: 28
        0
        Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
        Why should an air defense system target every drone? He can perceive the swarm as one large target, and fire several missiles with submunitions towards it, taking into account the fact that the swarm may disperse.

        The "swarm" can be very distributed in space, "echeloned" at altitude levels, approach the target from several directions, create a reserve on the sidelines ...
  • Victorm
    Victorm 15 October 2020 10: 26
    -1
    Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
    Quote: Operator
    A swarm of 48 loitering ammunition of a penny cost is a complete ash of any air defense system, the channel of which is less than the specified value (i.e., to all Russian air defense systems without exception).

    Why should an air defense system target every drone? He can perceive the swarm as one large target, and fire several missiles with submunitions towards it, taking into account the fact that the swarm may disperse.

    The usual anti-aircraft artillery with programmable detonation of shells is enough. Such SPAAGs have been in service with a number of countries for a long time.


    The Indian military is now actively discussing its capabilities and the fate of its deployed T-72 and T-90 tanks in the light of the latest example of the use of attack UAVs in Karabakh and given China's thousands of attack UAVs. Apparently, the war in Karabakh echoed and became a cold shower for many.
    1. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara 15 October 2020 10: 47
      +1
      Quote: VictorM
      Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
      Quote: Operator
      A swarm of 48 loitering ammunition of a penny cost is a complete ash of any air defense system, the channel of which is less than the specified value (i.e., to all Russian air defense systems without exception).

      Why should an air defense system target every drone? He can perceive the swarm as one large target, and fire several missiles with submunitions towards it, taking into account the fact that the swarm may disperse.

      The usual anti-aircraft artillery with programmable detonation of shells is enough. Such SPAAGs have been in service with a number of countries for a long time.


      The Indian military is now actively discussing its capabilities and the fate of its deployed T-72 and T-90 tanks in the light of the latest example of the use of attack UAVs in Karabakh and given China's thousands of attack UAVs. Apparently, the war in Karabakh echoed and became a cold shower for many.

      What if drones fly in from different directions at different heights?
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 15 October 2020 11: 58
        +1
        Quote: Vol4ara
        What if drones fly in from different directions at different heights?

        So you need to have several firing positions. And moreover of different types.
        However, normal air defense should be echeloned, even against drones, even against aircraft and their missiles / bombs.
        After all, in fact, what is the difference between any homing missile and a drone? Yes, nothing.
        Is that the absence of a loitering mode.
        By the way, the last "Tomogavks" have loitering and communication with the operator. They just don't return to the ship.
        1. Vol4ara
          Vol4ara 15 October 2020 12: 27
          0
          Quote: Jacket in stock
          Quote: Vol4ara
          What if drones fly in from different directions at different heights?

          So you need to have several firing positions. And moreover of different types.
          However, normal air defense should be echeloned, even against drones, even against aircraft and their missiles / bombs.
          After all, in fact, what is the difference between any homing missile and a drone? Yes, nothing.
          Is that the absence of a loitering mode.
          By the way, the last "Tomogavks" have loitering and communication with the operator. They just don't return to the ship.

          Well, here are 3 such cars launched at you from 40 km 150 drones, what air defense do you need to shoot them all down? Keep in mind that the price of all 150 drones is less than the price of a tank turret
          1. Jacket in stock
            Jacket in stock 15 October 2020 13: 17
            +1
            Quote: Vol4ara
            launched 40 drones at you from 150 km, what air defense do you need to shoot them all down? Keep in mind that the price of all 150 drones is less than the price of a tank turret

            Well, the options have already been thrown.
            What about the price...
            The price of protection will obviously be higher than the price of drones, but will certainly be lower than the cost of possible damage.
            1. Vol4ara
              Vol4ara 15 October 2020 13: 37
              0
              Quote: Jacket in stock
              Quote: Vol4ara
              launched 40 drones at you from 150 km, what air defense do you need to shoot them all down? Keep in mind that the price of all 150 drones is less than the price of a tank turret

              Well, the options have already been thrown.
              What about the price...
              The price of protection will obviously be higher than the price of drones, but will certainly be lower than the cost of possible damage.

              Oh yes, options like from patients from the PND - to hit tactical yao at a cluster of drones, shoot at them from autocannons with remote detonation, when the drones are at different altitudes, and the distance between them is a kilometer, destroy the operator, when these drones are essentially controlled by ai. The only logical thing that was suggested is Alabuga, but there is no information on it, therefore this is fortune telling on coffee grounds
              1. Jacket in stock
                Jacket in stock 15 October 2020 14: 13
                0
                Quote: Vol4ara
                shoot at them from autocannons with remote detonation, when the drones are at different altitudes, moving and the distance between them is a kilometer

                Well, as a matter of fact, radar fuses for anti-aircraft shells were invented back in the USSR, and now, they say, there are such ones even in 47mm caliber.
                And you can also, for example, give a command to detonate from the ground, it seems like it is also a proven scheme.
                There are no missiles for every drone, even small "nails", a cannon with "smart" projectiles is really cheaper and more cheerful here.
                1. Vol4ara
                  Vol4ara 15 October 2020 15: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Jacket in stock
                  Quote: Vol4ara
                  shoot at them from autocannons with remote detonation, when the drones are at different altitudes, moving and the distance between them is a kilometer

                  Well, as a matter of fact, radar fuses for anti-aircraft shells were invented back in the USSR, and now, they say, there are such ones even in 47mm caliber.
                  And you can also, for example, give a command to detonate from the ground, it seems like it is also a proven scheme.
                  There are no missiles for every drone, even small "nails", a cannon with "smart" projectiles is really cheaper and more cheerful here.

                  They came up with something, but their defeat is far from one and you simply won't have time to shoot them all down, while you shoot at one another, it will already fall on you
                  1. Jacket in stock
                    Jacket in stock 15 October 2020 16: 50
                    +1
                    Quote: Vol4ara
                    you simply won't have time to shoot them all down while you shoot at one another will already fall on you

                    Конечно.
                    So we return higher - the air defense should be echeloned.
                    And any position / grouping should be covered by cannons, and "nails" of the Carapace, and "real" missiles of the Thors, and KAZs on the roofs of all cars, and the simplest camouflage nets, and electronic warfare with powerful generators of electronic burning and lasers, and interceptor drones, and some other stuff.
                    Otherwise, it will fall on your head. For the wunderwafele does not exist.
                    1. Jacket in stock
                      Jacket in stock 15 October 2020 17: 15
                      +1
                      But the most effective is when the sky is occupied by your drones. When, at any moment in time, at any point of the front and to the entire operational depth, your drone sees everything and can suppress any attempt to shoot in your direction even at the stage of leaving the garage.
                    2. Vol4ara
                      Vol4ara 15 October 2020 18: 10
                      0
                      Quote: Jacket in stock
                      Quote: Vol4ara
                      you simply won't have time to shoot them all down while you shoot at one another will already fall on you

                      Конечно.
                      So we return higher - the air defense should be echeloned.
                      And any position / grouping should be covered by cannons, and "nails" of the Carapace, and "real" missiles of the Thors, and KAZs on the roofs of all cars, and the simplest camouflage nets, and electronic warfare with powerful generators of electronic burning and lasers, and interceptor drones, and some other stuff.
                      Otherwise, it will fall on your head. For the wunderwafele does not exist.

                      And again we run into money. 3 cars with these drones cost, for example, $ 1, and the funds for guaranteed repelling an attack will be $ 1500. There are no effective interceptor drones yet. Rab cannot burn out electronics, it can cut the connection, but this is not a panacea. You can argue for a long time about the fact that the affected targets can cost more than 1500, but the reality is that the money may not be enough
                      1. your1970
                        your1970 16 October 2020 08: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Vol4ara
                        3 cars with these drones cost, for example, $ 1,

                        The amount of explosives decides everything - if there is 100 grams, this is one thing, and if there is 1-2 kg, then this is a completely different cost of drones, they are larger, more noticeable, and they will not be released in millions ...
  • Crabio
    Crabio 15 October 2020 10: 28
    0
    A gloomy future awaits us ...
  • Kerensky
    Kerensky 15 October 2020 10: 30
    +1
    We'll have to think about masking and changing the signature. Or to release the same drones - drone hunters, who are drone hunters, etc ...
    Dead end?
    1. Interlocutor
      Interlocutor 15 October 2020 11: 16
      0
      Dead end?

      Not a dead end. The main thing is that it does not fly into the tank.
  • Crabio
    Crabio 15 October 2020 10: 33
    0
    I remember Stanislav Lem's story "Invincible". It was not possible to defeat the colossal swarm of micro-drones even with the help of a heavy all-terrain vehicle with an annihilator on board.
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 15 October 2020 10: 45
    0
    Unnecessarily bulky PU for such small-sized and low-power devices.
  • bars1
    bars1 15 October 2020 11: 07
    +1
    Quote: Insurgent
    As expected, Iran will soon "catch up", and Russia ... Russia is somewhere "in the tail" is lagging ...

    Well, "in the tail" ... On paralay, a member of the forum under the nickname Hokum writes that he talked with a representative of "Kronstadt" at the Army 2020. The representative said in an interview that last year the company, together with the military, conducted an experiment. A network control scheme for a swarm of unmanned aerial vehicles of various types was being developed. During the experiment, the UAVs in a fully automatic mode distributed tasks among themselves within the framework of the general tactical concept and solved it with the resources available in the group. Reportedly, the result exceeded all expectations. The echeloned air defense was broken through, the task was completed. UAVs of different types can interact in a group: from the Hunter to the Lancet kamikaze
  • Victorm
    Victorm 15 October 2020 11: 18
    -2
    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    4 players in this market are the USA, Israel, China, Turkey. They all have analogues of similar systems "



    And it is these systems that are the future. In the next topic, the UAV Bayraktar TV2 is discussed a lot, but it is effective only against a weak enemy, such as the APF or an army of the level of the Armenian Armed Forces, and this is not even the average level of modern armed forces.

    And if, again, we appeal to the fresh experience of the Karabakh war, note how Azerbaijan protects and holds back Israeli Harop and other kamikaze drones (loitering ammunition). The UAV Bayraktar TV2 requires an airfield or at least a strip for take-off and landing, any serious enemy strikes air defense and airfields first. At the same time, the same Harop can be launched anywhere, and launched en masse, in an amount sufficient to, for example, destroy the air defense of a large compound in the first wave, and then strike at selected targets.

    No wonder, for example, the same Harop is in service with units of the Border Troops of Azerbaijan covering sections of the borders in the north and south. It is clear that, if not to breed polites, then Russia or Iran are considered as a potential enemy, "if you want peace, prepare for war." The presence of a large number of tanks and armored vehicles at the armies of both states, the rate on them, forces them to have just such systems. Let us hypothetically imagine an analogue of 08.08.08, Russia went to "forcing peace" on Azerbaijan according to the same scenario, and it was certainly considered and analyzed. In fact, the military air defense and convoys of equipment will be destroyed as soon as they cross the border with the help of all the same shock UAVs, yet that will survive after air strikes, apparently, according to the plan, it will seek from the Skif ATGM, which are also in service with the Border Guards. troops, if I am not mistaken, in two batches under 50 units, about 100 such complexes were purchased.
    As we can see, even such small states as Azerbaijan draw conclusions from recent conflicts and build their military programs based on their analysis and forecast. Therefore, it is foolish to assume that in Russia, taking into account the number of institutes and the level of military science in general, there are no developments in the development of similar strike UAVs or loitering ammunition. The problem is that Russia cannot be a link in "international" cooperation in such developments, unlike Israel or Turkey, and even the same China, which can afford to borrow and copy by locating dozens of Western factories on its territory. Russia will not build a single sample until all units of its own production have been created and tested. On the one hand, this is reflected in the timing and cost, on the other hand, it guarantees security and sovereignty in the field of military development and production in wartime or pre-war times. A striking example is the same Turkey with its Bayraktar TV2, Canada imposed a ban on the supply of engines in connection with the supply of Bayraktar to Azerbaijan and ... EVERYTHING, sailed. This can happen in a conflict involving Turkey itself, if its interests clash with the interests of the United States, Great Britain or France, for example. Therefore, you should not immediately ask "where is Russia", WILL be, but due to circumstances and conditions it will not be right away and not soon, but it will have its own, sovereign and original.
    Well, most likely, the emphasis will be made mostly on loitering ammunition, Russia's need for attack drones like Bayraktar and others is very small, since potential opponents of Russia are clearly superior in level to both the PFA and the Armed Forces of Armenia.
  • RainFall
    RainFall 15 October 2020 11: 44
    +5
    BM-30 Tornado shoots a drone in a very old video https://youtu.be/Si2zhgi7j2s

    Invent a missile that launches a glide bomb from a BM-21. The gliding bomb separates from the missile after launch. The glide bomb from BM-21 is cheaper than aircraft.
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  • Alien From
    Alien From 15 October 2020 11: 57
    0
    The future has already arrived.
  • Vlad Pervovich
    Vlad Pervovich 15 October 2020 13: 02
    0
    what do you say, cool! good
  • Victorm
    Victorm 15 October 2020 13: 19
    +1
    Quote: RainFall
    BM-30 Tornado shoots a drone in a very old video https://youtu.be/Si2zhgi7j2s

    Invent a missile that launches a glide bomb from a BM-21. The gliding bomb separates from the missile after launch. The glide bomb from BM-21 is cheaper than aircraft.

    Expensive, overall, complex production is required only for the production of the launcher itself, and it is simply the number one goal. Placing it on a small chassis, disguising it as an ordinary truck or pickup, mounting it on a small trailer will generally make it possible to produce an almost one-time option. This all increases the survivability of the complex, simplifies it and reduces the cost, and allows you to deploy production in wartime.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 15 October 2020 14: 22
      -1
      There is a proposal to make the same system based on the Ural Typhoon to make a seemingly ordinary tent - and inside there are blocks with kamikaze drones.
  • KreAtiF
    KreAtiF 15 October 2020 15: 00
    0
    Interestingly, with us it is possible to do something similar on the basis of Tornado-G?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 15 October 2020 18: 13
      -1
      At least the caliber and length of the Tornado G guides make drones shells of large size and efficiency - warhead range, etc.
  • Gavrohs
    Gavrohs 15 October 2020 16: 27
    0
    here is the defense system against such drones
  • Victorm
    Victorm 15 October 2020 17: 13
    0
    Quote: Vol4ara
    Quote: VictorM
    Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
    Quote: Operator
    A swarm of 48 loitering ammunition of a penny cost is a complete ash of any air defense system, the channel of which is less than the specified value (i.e., to all Russian air defense systems without exception).

    Why should an air defense system target every drone? He can perceive the swarm as one large target, and fire several missiles with submunitions towards it, taking into account the fact that the swarm may disperse.

    The usual anti-aircraft artillery with programmable detonation of shells is enough. Such SPAAGs have been in service with a number of countries for a long time.


    The Indian military is now actively discussing its capabilities and the fate of its deployed T-72 and T-90 tanks in the light of the latest example of the use of attack UAVs in Karabakh and given China's thousands of attack UAVs. Apparently, the war in Karabakh echoed and became a cold shower for many.

    What if drones fly in from different directions at different heights?

    The speed of the drones is low by definition, I think the battery of the ZSU can create an irresistible cloud of fragments for the UAV. And the UAV is a small and unprotected target, a small enough striking element, and accordingly, for example, in a 40mm projectile there will be more than enough of them.
    [media = https: //youtu.be/XI_Y_a4YdMo]
    Look at the Saab Bofors system, you will understand the principle without knowing English, at the same time pay attention to the year ...

    Speaking of Swedish air defense systems. At one time in the Iran-Iraq war, the Swedish RBS-70 MANPADS showed high efficiency. If we are talking about the current conflict, then reconnaissance and attack drones of the Bayraktar TV2 type would have no chance against these MANPADS due to the implemented principle of guidance / control of a missile by a laser beam.

    The video shows the destruction of the UAV.
  • Alexfly
    Alexfly 15 October 2020 17: 56
    0
    an ideal thing for destroying air defense systems, artillery crews and accumulations of manpower and equipment. Kamikaze drones follow the same target designation ....
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  • Evgeny Seleznev
    Evgeny Seleznev 16 October 2020 21: 09
    0
    This swarm can really overload the air defense, and if after the remnants of the swarm comes OTR or anti-ship missiles, land oars.
  • Pandiurin
    Pandiurin 18 October 2020 22: 30
    0
    In the context of the massive use of kamikaze drones, the deployment of a group of microsatellites with "wi-fi" looks interesting, it is logical to assume that there is advanced functionality, for example, the ability to use not only standard frequencies, but also other non-"civil" purposes.
    The station with the operator of the US Armed Forces performing the assignment of targets may be located somewhere in Germany.
    After launching the drones, the launcher can leave immediately. It is more expensive to shoot down microsatellites than it costs to deploy them (it can only burn with a laser, if possible from the ground).
    If you destroy only a part of it, it will not help, they are in low orbit, they do not hang in the same place, they constantly change. Those. by knocking down a part, you can reduce their saturation but not completely clear the geographic area from them.