Military Review

Indian general: Indian tank units need to learn a lesson from the fighting in Karabakh

72

In the disputed high-mountainous region of East Ladakh, India and China have deployed sufficiently powerful groups, reinforced tanks... The Chinese Type15 light tanks are opposed to the T-72 and T-90 of the Indian armed forces. At the same time, Indian military experts draw attention to the fact that in such landscape conditions, tanks turn into a vulnerable target for air strikes - primarily with the use of drones.


Former commander of the Northern Army of India, Lieutenant General D.S. Khuda cites as an example the situation that is developing in the course of the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict. The retired general notes that in Nagorno-Karabakh, the conditions for using tanks are similar to those in Ladakh.

D.S. Hood:

The Azerbaijani military has deployed many drones for both surveillance and attack. These are kamikaze drones. They simply circle over the battlefield, identify a target, such as a tank, and crash into it from a height, ensuring defeat. Azerbaijani troops use Turkish and Israeli UAVs, acquired in large numbers in recent years.

The Indian general notes that with the massive use of shock and reconnaissance drone aviation the role of tanks is becoming less obvious. Any tank, even a completely modern one, turns into an open target without a strictly built air defense system. At the same time, D.S. Khuda emphasizes that the Armenian side announced that 107 unmanned aerial vehicles of the Azerbaijani troops were shot down.

This means that the air defense systems are working, but at the same time the number of drones indicated in the report indicates how massive their use is in Karabakh.

This conflict, like the conflict in Syria, according to the retired lieutenant general of the Indian armed forces, indicates that the viability of tanks is questionable regarding future wars.

D.S. Khuda, noting that the tank units of India and all the armed forces of the country need to learn a lesson from the format of the battles in Karabakh:

It looks like the era of large tank battles is over. On the modern battlefield, and especially on the battlefield of future wars, there are more and more questions about the viability of tanks.


It was noted that in Ladakh, India, one should not rely on the use of armored vehicles.
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  1. Insurgent
    Insurgent 15 October 2020 07: 31 New
    +4
    Indian general: Indian tank units need to learn a lesson from the fighting in Karabakh

    It looks like the era of large tank battles is over. On the modern battlefield, and especially on the battlefield of future wars, there are more and more questions about the viability of tanks.


    It's too early to write off tanks. Something of course will change in the tactics of their use due to new threats, but such a sign on the roads will be relevant for a long time.

    1. Deck
      Deck 15 October 2020 08: 05 New
      -5
      “I asked our Karabakh friends if our tanks are ready to resist the Azerbaijani aggression. I was assured that everything works. So they said that I can check it myself. I got into the T-72 and went to the front. The headquarters gave me the coordinates of the Azerbaijanis. We intercepted the enemy's conversation. It became known that they wanted to fire a volley at Stepanakert. Time was running out, I myself broke through to the rear of the enemy and knocked out 10 enemy tanks. My T-72 was also hit twice or three times, fortunately, our aviation rose to help in time and covered me. I was asked by the commanders not to do this anymore. I will try to trust the professionals, but let Aliyev and his devils know that I can go to Baku, and half of Moscow like me, ”said Pashinyan.
      1. nnm
        nnm 15 October 2020 08: 11 New
        +4
        Colleague, will it bother you to provide information about the primary source of such a "statement"?
        1. Deck
          Deck 15 October 2020 08: 22 New
          0
          Will not make it difficult. Edition "Panorama". Perhaps a branch of VO. News one to one
          1. nnm
            nnm 15 October 2020 08: 44 New
            +3
            Are you aware that Panorama is a satirical resource, what is indicated on their website?
            1. Deck
              Deck 15 October 2020 08: 49 New
              +3
              Not specified on VO
              satirical resource
              but what does that change. Here people like it, actively support, comment. By the way, comments are sometimes better than the source. So everything is in line laughing
              1. Pereira
                Pereira 15 October 2020 09: 03 New
                +6
                I also really liked it. He laughed a lot.
            2. Terrible GMO
              Terrible GMO 15 October 2020 23: 22 New
              0
              Quote: nnm
              You are aware that Panorama is a satirical resource,

              Not anymore. Reality has put Panorama on its shoulder blades. Especially some personalities laughing
      2. MTN
        MTN 15 October 2020 08: 18 New
        -2
        Quote: Deck
        Pashinyan told

        Believe me?)
        1. Deck
          Deck 15 October 2020 08: 25 New
          0
          Sure! Do you believe:
          After the earthquake in Armenia, Charles Aznavour donated a lot of money. Then he saw how his grandmothers were stealing and help to the victims did not reach. After this incident, there were no particularly large donations. Their public debt is approaching 10 times the country's budget. Can you imagine the state of the economy? Over the past month, Russia has dispatched its cargo planes many times with aid for their army. Plus boldly and this money. Free cheese only happens in a mousetrap. In addition to all this, add the weapons that they have lost since the beginning of the war ... ... do you think the diaspora will pull it?
      3. Yujanin
        Yujanin 15 October 2020 08: 28 New
        +4

        “I asked our Karabakh friends if our tanks are ready to resist the Azerbaijani aggression. I was assured that everything works. So they said that I can check it myself. I got into the T-72 and went to the front. The headquarters gave me the coordinates of the Azerbaijanis. We intercepted the enemy's conversation. It became known that they wanted to fire a volley at Stepanakert. Time was running out, I myself broke through to the rear of the enemy and knocked out 10 enemy tanks. My T-72 was also hit twice or three times, fortunately, our aviation rose to help in time and covered me. I was asked by the commanders not to do this anymore. I will try to trust the professionals, but let Aliyev and his devils know that I can go to Baku, and half of Moscow like me, ”said Pashinyan.

        Trololo level God laughing
      4. Proxima
        Proxima 15 October 2020 09: 03 New
        0
        As soon as the first tank appeared on the battlefield, the first "experts" immediately appeared, ranting about the vulnerability of the tank, about its weak efficiency and the imminent decline of the tank doctrine. negative More than a hundred years have passed and nothing has changed. And this Indian in general, perhaps surpassed everyone - he was scared of drones! belay
        1. Vol4ara
          Vol4ara 15 October 2020 09: 27 New
          -1
          Quote: Proxima
          As soon as the first tank appeared on the battlefield, the first "experts" immediately appeared, ranting about the vulnerability of the tank, about its weak efficiency and the imminent decline of the tank doctrine. negative More than a hundred years have passed and nothing has changed. And this Indian in general, perhaps surpassed everyone - he was scared of drones! belay

          More than a hundred years have passed and a lot is changing.
          1. Proxima
            Proxima 15 October 2020 11: 32 New
            0
            It does not change that the tank remains fundamental unit ground forces. Everything else is an adjective to it.
            1. Vol4ara
              Vol4ara 15 October 2020 12: 21 New
              0
              Quote: Proxima
              It does not change that the tank remains fundamental unit ground forces. Everything else is an adjective to it.

              Yeah, we saw what a significant contribution tanks made in Karabakh, both for Azerbaijan and for Armenia.
              1. Simargl
                Simargl 15 October 2020 14: 36 New
                +2
                Quote: Vol4ara
                Yeah, we saw what a significant contribution tanks made in Karabakh, both for Azerbaijan and for Armenia.
                Now imagine that one of the sides has no tanks.
                In fact, the effectiveness of a weapon is determined not only and not so much by its loss, but by the result of its use: whether the problem was solved, how much cheaper / more expensive was the solution of the problem.
                1. Vol4ara
                  Vol4ara 15 October 2020 15: 10 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Simargl
                  Quote: Vol4ara
                  Yeah, we saw what a significant contribution tanks made in Karabakh, both for Azerbaijan and for Armenia.
                  Now imagine that one of the sides has no tanks.
                  In fact, the effectiveness of a weapon is determined not only and not so much by its loss, but by the result of its use: whether the problem was solved, how much cheaper / more expensive was the solution of the problem.

                  Introduced - nothing has changed. For in this war, the role of tanks is negligible; they were cut out on marches and in shelters, the only difference is that some cut them out with drones, and others with pturas
        2. venik
          venik 15 October 2020 16: 38 New
          +2
          Quote: Proxima
          As soon as the first tank appeared on the battlefield, the first "experts" immediately appeared, ranting about the vulnerability of the tank, its weak efficiency and the imminent decline of the tank doctrine. negative More than a hundred years have passed and nothing has changed.

          =======
          So NOTHING has changed? With the proliferation of RPGs and ATGMs, tank groups began to include tank fire support vehicles (BMPs), with the advent of helicopters (against which the tanks were helpless), armored self-propelled ZAK, SAM and ZRPK appeared in tank columns) ... Now - drones ... We should expect the emergence of self-propelled electronic warfare stations (on an armored, possibly tracked chassis) ... Well, of course, with the advent of new threats, it constantly changed, changes and will change tactics of using tanks.
          And you say - "NOTHING changes" ..... - request
  2. carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 15 October 2020 07: 37 New
    12
    on a modern battlefield, the viability of tanks must be ensured by interaction with other types of troops. There is only one conclusion - the Armenian army is not at all ready for any types of military operations.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 15 October 2020 07: 59 New
      +7
      One would think a Russian or American tank battalion with motorized riflemen would perform better.

      Well, the Chinese will drive such machines and throw them at the breakthrough site.


      Each drone for 1 hour of flight and warhead penetrating the tank. Visibility is less than that of Harop, the price is several times lower, the survivability is higher due to even smaller dimensions and cruising speed. This is taking into account the fact that the compound and its air defense will be kneading all sorts of WingLongs - which carry significantly more gifts than TV2 and are more diverse, as well as Chinese Wild Weasels on flying leopards with PRR.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 15 October 2020 08: 04 New
        +6
        sure. at the same time, anti-aircraft weapons do not work. Electronic warfare disabled. tanks are in an open field. everyone is standing and waiting for the ammunition to fly over them. no one works by means of delivery either. reconnaissance is not performed. no bulletins and no data coming in. we just stand and wait for the weather from the sea.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 15 October 2020 08: 11 New
          11
          Well, that's what the Armenians thought wink .

          Anti-aircraft weapons - I attached the video, well, they release a wave of even 48 ammunition. Good luck to intercept them. And if there are good old wasps, with which more than half of the units are still equipped ...

          Electronic warfare will not help much. In general, this is already like preparing for the war before last. DRONES NOT DIRECT CONTROL! If at least one beam from the control center passes under the teleautomat for capture, then this will be enough. Yes, you can't put a picture on YouTube. But the goal will be fulfilled. Drones of the next generation will be by type loaded target types and search / defeat area - fire and forget. The Americans, Israel and China are working on this very actively. EW has everything there, even theoretical powers.

          Tanks are breaking through. Again, look at how many Armenian vehicles were packed on the move, including loitering supplies.

          By means of delivery - well, good luck to work it out. It's not for nothing that I attached the video. This truck leans back 50 km. And you can control the swarm from another place (or from the front, without the astro, or even from the rear, 100 km away from the astro).
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 15 October 2020 08: 19 New
            +5
            of course, we do not have military air defense. in the states, for example, a tank brigade does not have air defense missile systems with TORs. there are no anti-aircraft battalions with Tunguska. no MANPADS. As for the video from Karabakh, I personally did not see at all from the Armenian side at least some minimal hints of preparation. the feeling that there is generally lost control and in the divisions simply do not know what they are doing.
            1. donavi49
              donavi49 15 October 2020 08: 40 New
              0
              From this air defense - TORs will definitely work. MANPADS - good luck aiming at miniRotaxes. Just how to beat off diving UAVs with bits laughing , but then again, baseball culture is far from Russian soldiers, so it won't work. And there are generally almost cold options, for example, on lithium-ion and electric motors:

              Paris Air Show 2019, company introduced the 1.34-meter-long Hero-120 Mid-Sized Loitering Munition (MSLM), offering customers the flexibility to optimize the loitering weapon effect against different targets. With modular warhead and scalable battery pack, MSLM can carry different warheads triggered by a common multi-mode fuze, from 1.5 kg up to 4.5 kg, featuring Airburst Fragmentation for beyond line of sight anti-personnel effect, Point Detonation for anti-structure effect, a High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) option, defeating the armor of modern main battle tanks with a top and proximity mode for penetration of windows and vehicles. The Hero-120 operates at a typical altitude of 1,500 ft. above ground, where it maintains a low acoustic, thermal and visual signature... The flight time has increased to 60 minutes, thanks to a redesigned fuselage that offers a compact packing in the launch canister while maintaining a large warhead size. Hero 120 is controlled via datalink from 40 km afar, and dive on its target at 100 knots.




              This is essentially how any war looks. Especially without staged shots and scenes. And if you look closely, quite enough tanks / infantry fighting vehicles were rolled in branches, sod, net masks.

              It's just that A-A is a battle of two disabled people of the 1st group. India won't have that luxury. For the main enemy has everything and much more. That is, the air defense will have to work out oncoming conventional aircraft, various drones, including air defense detectors by themselves (just not on AN2, but on their platform) with which wild weasels with PRR will work. Strong fighter aircraft that will impose intense aerial combat. A lot of weapons of any level. The Hindus also have trump cards. But if they take a serious bite, then whole units will burn there every day.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 15 October 2020 10: 24 New
                0
                you somehow miss the fact that the battle is a battle of both sides and what you describe will happen on both sides. and each will show its trump cards. although I don't believe in Hindus either. too cumbersome structures and little order. drones, if necessary, they can buy any kind. I doubt that the states will refuse them given their confrontation with China. As for the TORs, they are moving around the state, but there are also military air defense units that, in fact, will also cover the areas of hostilities. arrows 10m archers are the same, too, are not just in service. and in fact, these drones will not have to break through several defensive lines. which Armenia certainly does not do from the word at all. disguise is not only about throwing branches. these are various activities from elementary smoke to false targets. Well, damn it, at least they could try to hide behind smoke?) I would have a pancake from all settlements stupidly dumped tires and set them on fire. even such a trifle can help.
          2. abc_alex
            abc_alex 15 October 2020 15: 49 New
            -2
            Quote: donavi49
            DRONES NOT DIRECT CONTROL!

            Have you watched the video? There is not just a direct control, there is a TV channel for the operator. :) And direct remote guidance. So the electronic warfare there will not only be effective, it will decide.

            Quote: donavi49
            well, even 48 rounds of ammunition are being released.

            They were spotted on the radar and attacked by missiles with a volume-detonating warhead. Or three or four at once. Or shrapnel warheads. Dumped all 48.

            It's just that the means of destruction follow the targets for the missiles. If there is a massive development of drone swarm systems, there will be missiles of the corresponding type.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 15 October 2020 08: 19 New
        0
        An operator with a tablet was shown there. How many drones can he fly at the same time? Something is hard to believe that several at once is ineffective. Although China has such a population that you can give birth to operators as much as you want - tablets would be enough. smile
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 15 October 2020 08: 29 New
          0
          They are not directly controlled, but he indicates them the flight parameters / removes data from the optical station and indicates the targets under the teleautomat (and then it will be conducted and calculated the attack parameters independently, along the profile, well, or the loss of the target will pass - further either into the search loop or to the last point, the Americans still have chips, there is about similar ammunition also for an hour of flight, recently there was an article on VO).
          1. abc_alex
            abc_alex 15 October 2020 15: 58 New
            -1
            Quote: donavi49
            They are not directly controlled, but he indicates them the flight parameters / takes data from the optical station and indicates the targets under the teleautomat


            Well, yes, you don't need to duplicate the gyroscope with your hands. Drones are drones because they can fly up to the target themselves. :)
            BUT! he cannot find the goal on his own. And having lost the goal of "understanding" it cannot be the same. There are no such algorithms yet to distinguish a tank from a truck behind a fence against the background of the ground and buildings. Therefore, the drone maintains a CONTINUOUS TV channel with the operator. The operator himself searches for the target with his eyes. And most likely (I cannot vouch for sure) it is the operator who "holding the frame" gives out corrective corrections for aiming the drone on the final part of the trajectory.
            You write as if these drones are a breakthrough. ANY guided missile works the same way. The drone is no different from the "Attack" on the principle of guidance, the only difference is in size and speed.

            Quote: donavi49
            Americans still have chips

            What kind? prohibitive price? :)
      3. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 15 October 2020 08: 45 New
        -2
        In this case, the infantry can be armed with similar systems. Go find them.


      4. keeper03
        keeper03 15 October 2020 09: 22 New
        +2
        Why don't we have such cartoons ?! am request
      5. Kent0001
        Kent0001 15 October 2020 09: 36 New
        -1
        And the Afghanit won't hit him on approach?
  3. nnm
    nnm 15 October 2020 07: 41 New
    +1
    Well, ok, we throw the tanks away. But then, for example, the question arises - by what means to carry out the development of the offensive in the event of a breakthrough of the enemy's defense? Or are we abandoning such an idea, in principle, and moving on to a slow, gradual squeezing out of the enemy along the entire front? It is highly doubtful. And clearly worth much more losses.
    Therefore, it seems that there will simply be an increase in air defense in tank units and formations, the removal of the line of deployment of marching columns, or a change in this order, in principle, but certainly, it is too early to write off the tanks. They are simply necessary for conducting, at least, offensive operations ...
    1. Yujanin
      Yujanin 15 October 2020 07: 45 New
      -2

      Well, ok, we throw the tanks away. But then, for example, the question arises - by what means to carry out the development of the offensive in the event of a breakthrough in the enemy's defense?

      The infantry of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Azerbaijan is covered by artillery and attack UAVs from the air. The tanks no longer go on the offensive.
      1. Dikson
        Dikson 15 October 2020 07: 52 New
        +4
        Artillery will be carried out from the air even faster than tanks))
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 15 October 2020 08: 10 New
          +2
          of course they will. we urgently need to write to the Moscow region to throw everything out and build only drones. why all the rest? let's throw out everything. all air defense military. Why do the TORs cover the tanks?))) Why do we need air defense troops of the ground forces? )
        2. Yujanin
          Yujanin 15 October 2020 08: 59 New
          0

          Artillery will be carried out from the air even faster than tanks))

          A conversation about a specific theater of war in Karabakh, where the enemy cannot use combat aircraft.
      2. nnm
        nnm 15 October 2020 07: 56 New
        +3
        And what does this have to do with it? You might think that in an ordinary combined arms battle, one infantry sits in the trenches and that's it. And I'm not talking specifically about the NKR theater, since I am not familiar with it, and this is just one of many and not the most important area. It's about the place and role of tank units and formations, in principle. As for UAVs, it seems that in such a situation, their main danger is precisely in identifying at an early stage the withdrawal of the involved forces and assets to the deployment lines before the offensive, the place of concentration. And the mountainous terrain for the use of tanks has always been very difficult, therefore, in relation to the battles in the NKR, this cannot be considered a generalized indicator.
        As for your answer directly, I will answer the question with a question - will you name the removal of UAV control points and batteries from the line of contact? And the time to change their positions with the correlation of units and formations according to the nearest task and the task of the day?
    2. Insurgent
      Insurgent 15 October 2020 07: 52 New
      0
      Quote: nnm
      Well, ok, we throw the tanks away.

      Don't listen to these Indians ...
      Themselves, when was the last time they really fought? Border skirmishes and conflicts don't count No.

      Apparently still on elephants what ... And still there, trying to enter their page in the textbook of military science.
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 15 October 2020 07: 57 New
        +6
        Quote: Insurgent
        And still there, they try to enter their page in the textbook of military science.

        In any case, they, like smart people, learn from other people's mistakes.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 15 October 2020 08: 01 New
          +2
          Quote: Egoza
          In any case, they, like smart people, learn from other people's mistakes.

          Be sure that these are just words, and as it comes to the point, it turns out that no conclusions have been drawn and no measures have been taken.

          Hindus will dance everything ...

          And we should really think about it. Specifically to them, because China is the largest developer, manufacturer and operator of a wide range of combat UAVs for various purposes.
        2. nnm
          nnm 15 October 2020 08: 03 New
          +1
          Therefore, apparently, it was the tanks that pulled up to the zone of their conflict)))
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 15 October 2020 08: 11 New
            0
            Quote: nnm
            Therefore, apparently, it was the tanks that pulled up to the zone of their conflict)))

            For lack of anything else.
            But they are not able to provide them with cover from Chinese UAVs, or to oppose the PLA with similar ones.
        3. abc_alex
          abc_alex 15 October 2020 16: 11 New
          +2
          Quote: Egoza
          In any case, they, like smart people, learn from other people's mistakes.

          Have the Armenians already lost the war?
          What "mistakes" are you talking about? Judging by what the Indians wrote, they saw the wrong mistakes and drew the wrong conclusions and learn the wrong thing.
          In a land battle, there is nothing and will never be more powerful and reliable than a tank. He did not just appear on the battlefield, it is an EXPERIENCE of war. Experience gained with blood in a war waged in the conditions of widespread proliferation of automatic weapons and artillery. And now even all of the "newfangled" statesmen in the first place are dragging the Abrams into the war. And they take them away with them every time they triumphantly get down the drain. But all sorts of armored rags for a million apiece are thrown where necessary.

          The Armenians' mistake is that they did not modernize their defense, taking into account the development of the enemy's means of destruction. Open trenches and artillery positions were covered with success even during WW1. Without any drones. And WW2 showed that ANY line defense would be opened by artillery in one way or another. Azeri did not hide what exactly they buy from the Turks and Israel. It was necessary to think about how to defend against this. Drones? OK. We have Tor and Tunguska, we have portable radars that have been tested on UAVs of Georgia and bearded men in sneakers.
          Hindus need not talk about tanks, but about the air defense of the battlefield. Because drones do not care about who they explode. Tanks will be "removed" from the battlefield - self-propelled guns will become "redundant", then guns. Then armored personnel carriers / infantry fighting vehicles, cars, then mortars ... And what will be left? "Naked" infantry? Aha, and then the MLRS division will arrive and end the war with one salvo.
          1. Datarem
            Datarem 15 October 2020 18: 13 New
            +2
            Quote: abc_alex
            Aha, and then the MLRS division will arrive and end the war with one salvo.

            If an Azeri has 200 artillery barrels per km and ammunition in echelons, then yes. And if not, then the infantry in camouflaged trenches is quite stable. The Armenians simply cared little about camouflaging and creating false positions.
      2. nnm
        nnm 15 October 2020 08: 00 New
        0
        Dear Insurgent, read the text further ...)))
        On the contrary, I believe that tanks have definitely not outlived their usefulness.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 15 October 2020 08: 04 New
          +1
          Quote: nnm
          Dear Insurgent, read the text further ...)))

          Yes, I read, rest assured. My comment does not in any way contradict your reflections.

          And the appeal - "Don't listen to these Indians ..."does not sound to you personally, but to the entire audience.
    3. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara 15 October 2020 09: 37 New
      -1
      Quote: nnm
      Well, ok, we throw the tanks away. But then, for example, the question arises - by what means to carry out the development of the offensive in the event of a breakthrough of the enemy's defense? Or are we abandoning such an idea, in principle, and moving on to a slow, gradual squeezing out of the enemy along the entire front? It is highly doubtful. And clearly worth much more losses.
      Therefore, it seems that there will simply be an increase in air defense in tank units and formations, the removal of the line of deployment of marching columns, or a change in this order, in principle, but certainly, it is too early to write off the tanks. They are simply necessary for conducting, at least, offensive operations ...

      Necessary, but extremely vulnerable, they will be carried out from the air both on the march and in defense.
      Drones are cheap, the tank is several million dollars. It is necessary to massively place kaz, thereby raising the cost even higher.
  4. Shuttle
    Shuttle 15 October 2020 07: 51 New
    +5
    The Indian in this case is right about the conditions of the clash. Indeed, both the landscape and the balance of power are similar if we assume that the high-tech army of the Turks is actually involved in the conflict. Yes, India is not Nagorno-Karabakh, but China is a more advanced country than Turkey. In addition, the level of economic development of the opposing sides evokes legitimate analogies.
    In a word, there are obvious similarities, but there are also differences. At least that China and India, unlike our neighbors, have nuclear weapons.
  5. rocket757
    rocket757 15 October 2020 07: 53 New
    +4
    This conflict, like the conflict in Syria, according to the retired lieutenant general of the Indian armed forces, indicates that the viability of tanks is questionable regarding future wars.

    Or maybe you should think about a rational, effective air defense for operational formations!
    1. strannik1985
      strannik1985 15 October 2020 08: 25 New
      +2
      About the system - soft-kill (EW), hard-kill (ZPRK, SAM), reconnaissance means, including radio-electronic, fire destruction (control centers, runways). It's just that air defense can be overloaded with targets without much effort, no missiles will be enough.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 15 October 2020 08: 35 New
        +1
        Quote: strannik1985
        It's just that air defense can be overloaded with targets without much effort, no missiles will be enough.

        So if you just look at the approaching danger and count, then yes.
        And if you have / create the same drones, with a shotgun, a flamethrower or something else, effectively striking, cutting through the oncoming swarm !!! Nobody proposes to fight only with missiles, does not restrict in anything.
        Who seeks will always find!!!
  6. strannik1985
    strannik1985 15 October 2020 07: 59 New
    0
    And if the enemy takes care of the RTR and a volley of a couple of MLRS divisions arrives at the UAV control center?
    1. syndicalist
      syndicalist 15 October 2020 08: 24 New
      +1
      The time for controlled UAVs is running out. This means that the time is running out for control centers and electronic warfare facilities, which will be useless against fully autonomous drones.
      1. Kent0001
        Kent0001 15 October 2020 09: 51 New
        0
        And they won't be able to burn out the interior with electronic warfare means? Or is it possible?
        1. syndicalist
          syndicalist 15 October 2020 10: 24 New
          -1
          This will require such an intensity of the EM field, which can only be created by a nuclear explosion.
    2. Kerensky
      Kerensky 15 October 2020 08: 27 New
      +1
      And if the enemy takes care of the RTR and a volley of a couple of MLRS divisions arrives at the UAV control center?

      And who said that the control center is in the MLRS coverage area? Technically, it could be on a different continent altogether.
      The Chinese in general can make their "Katyusha" in the form of a trailer. The cassette itself + the box is a repeater. And one soldier in the shelter (so as not to be turned away). By the time the box starts working, the cassette will already be empty. And hunting a couple of divisions MLRS behind the trailer loses its meaning ...
  7. askort154
    askort154 15 October 2020 08: 04 New
    +4
    Yeah . The UAV's capabilities are impressive. While we were scratching out of the 90s, we missed this trend, which suddenly became fashionable. Now there are many developments, but judging by the application in Syria, mainly aviation, the conclusion about our UAVs is not comforting.
    1. nnm
      nnm 15 October 2020 08: 09 New
      +1
      Excuse me, but if my memory serves me, then in the United States, more than 90% of combat work is performed by manned aircraft, not UAVs. It seems to me that you overemphasize the practice of using UAVs. Especially considering the obvious problem with modernization and military construction in NKR and Armenia
  8. Greyhound famously
    Greyhound famously 15 October 2020 08: 40 New
    +3
    Tanks won't go anywhere. It is pointless to argue about this. What is happening now is just another stage of the struggle between the armor and the projectile. The only question is what answers will be given to the drone threat. Will the means of combat be placed on the tank itself (for example, KAZ, replacing a large-caliber machine gun with a speed of 600 rounds / min with something more suitable for fighting drones and combining this with small-sized detection / guidance equipment) or for these tasks it will be necessary to create a separate specialized vehicle accompaniment. Well, or what other options there will be. And tanks, like heavily armored vehicles, will remain on the battlefield in any case.
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. Whirlwind
    Whirlwind 15 October 2020 09: 17 New
    +1
    So not only tanks, but any target is susceptible to the impact of unmanned aerial vehicles.
    New means of attack will certainly bring to life new means of defense against them.
    They are already being developed and will surely be on tanks and not only ...
  11. Nitarius
    Nitarius 15 October 2020 11: 59 New
    0
    ))) the fact that tanks need a radar is clear!)))
    1. d4rkmesa
      d4rkmesa 15 October 2020 14: 05 New
      0
      And even more versatile ECOs. Combat moves from plane to space.
    2. Datarem
      Datarem 15 October 2020 18: 18 New
      0
      Quote: Nitarius
      ))) the fact that tanks need a radar is clear!)))

      Maybe you just need a cover aviation ??))
  12. iouris
    iouris 15 October 2020 15: 24 New
    0
    A very timely warning. The PRC has a large range of drones.
  13. Alexey G
    Alexey G 15 October 2020 16: 29 New
    +1
    Nobody will give up tanks and never! Perhaps they will create unmanned tanks, of course, but one cannot do without tanks and infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers. Otherwise, the opponents will create a rich air defense system, arm even all soldiers with MANPADS, and then who will attack and how ???
    Another thing is that tank brigades need to be protected in a new way from threats from above. Old air defenses such as Tunguska or Torah or Pantsyr need to improve the mini-SAM, which is already being done and make them more nimble. Even a new principal model of such a technique for new tasks is possible. It must be mobile and fast, with a large supply of mini-missiles capable of delivering as many fragments as possible in order to shoot down a swarm of kamikaze drones.
    The tanks themselves need to be protected by KAZ with the ability to protect the upper hemisphere, to shoot down missiles falling from above! It is not very difficult, but expensive. In this case, the truth of the tanks will be practically invulnerable.
    But the main thing is the creation of improved aerial reconnaissance using reconnaissance minidrones. This idea has already been expressed for Armata. A drone on an electric cord, launched up high above the tank and carries out aerial reconnaissance of air and ground. If you install a varnish, optics, thermal imager, then it will report on air threats from all angles!
  14. Datarem
    Datarem 15 October 2020 18: 08 New
    +1
    It’s strange why they don’t cover su 30cm. In theory, there are very good conditions for them. Fly up, turn on the radar, attack the UAV and go back, under the cover of air defense.
  15. Datarem
    Datarem 15 October 2020 18: 16 New
    0
    I also propose to cut on metal ka 52 and mi 28, because they have already turned into vulnerable, of little use and expensive trash.
  16. ficus2003
    ficus2003 15 October 2020 19: 05 New
    0
    Many still do not catch up with the fact that without modern short-range air defense, all ground equipment is shot at point-blank from drones and merges into the toilet bowl of shame and bewilderment.
  17. yfast
    yfast 15 October 2020 19: 46 New
    -1
    Quote: ficus2003
    Many still do not catch up with the fact that without modern short-range air defense, all ground equipment is shot at point-blank from drones and merges into the toilet bowl of shame and bewilderment.

    And with a modern short-range air defense system, all ground equipment is shot from afar from drones and merges into the toilet bowl of shame and bewilderment.
    1. ficus2003
      ficus2003 15 October 2020 23: 57 New
      0
      If from afar then the air defense is lost
  18. Garris199
    Garris199 16 October 2020 20: 41 New
    0
    Again 25. Tanks - second stage means. The first stage is the conquest of air superiority. Or, the tanks operate under the cover of units of military air defense and IA.