Military Review

Do I need to build such tanks?

133

I'll start with photographs that I took in the village of Arkhangelskoye, Belgorod Region, with brothers Alexander and Mikhail Sheptayev from the Prokhorovskoye Pole military history club. For more than 10 years, the brothers, with the assistance of Valery Panteleimonovich Sheptaev's father, have been building equipment. Historical.


This is how the courtyard of a rural estate in the Belgorod region might look like:


Together with the Sheptaevs military history club, we will now make several materials on the topic of historical reviews of military equipment and weapons, but before that, as a start, I found one important, in my opinion, moment interesting.

In principle, as people who are understanding and sophisticated, we already just grimace when we meet on a movie or TV screen another set of freaks who should be Tanks... Especially German ones.

This was an ugly sin in Soviet times. Even such masterpieces as "Hot Snow" and "Battalions are asking for fire" did not pass this cup, and a variety of monsters crawled cheerfully, shot and burned in the frames.





Do I need to build such tanks?








For some reason, the XXI century did not become an exception, despite the fact that in the computer, with straight hands, you can draw anything you want. It is clear that now everything is very bad with hands, because in the same "Invincible" mutants from tank history also appeared on the screen. Unfortunately.

And here's a slightly different twist. People build tanks, self-propelled guns, armored vehicles. Judge for yourself how similar it all is. It is very similar, because in order to make a copy, the brothers traveled to Kubinka, since the old administration allowed working with exhibits. Therefore - a tape measure, a protractor, a tablet with paper and a pencil. Measurements of angles, bevels. Then the drawings. Then the search for donors and construction.

I would say - creation.

A kind of occupation. Someone will say: why? There are not so many buyers. In fact, they are, but not in such quantity that it would be interesting for the creators.

Reconstructions of the events of a bygone war are not complete without technology. Yes, and the reenactors sometimes have enough blunders, I myself saw the BT-7 at the reconstruction of the events of the liberation of Crimea (!) In the Chernozem region. No comment.

But what if we have such an attitude towards technology in our country?

In fact, there was nothing left. The planes were ruthlessly destroyed, the remaining pair of Il-2 and the same amount of Po-2, and that was all. Raised and restored I-16s went into the 90s in different collections around the world. And we just have to look at the recordings of foreign festivals, where "Zero" and "Corsair" easily fly side by side, like 80 years ago.

And in fact, there was no equipment left. All. The Vadim Zadorozhny Museum, the Dmitry Persheev Museum in Padikovo, the Kozitsyn Brothers Museum in Verkhnyaya Pyshma are islands of original technology.

But the original technique, which is worth its weight in gold because of its historical value, cannot be driven at festivals and other shows, you cannot shoot in films. Although museums provide their equipment for shooting, there is nowhere to go, because you need to shoot, although there is nothing special.

Two German tanks in "Panfilovtsy" is already an achievement. At least two, the rest were finished.

And if you could visit the military-historical festival "Battlefield" and see what they bring from the garages of "Mosfilm" ... The full impression that the bricklayers were building drunk since last year. "Come on, it'll do, gray, with a square tower" - that's something like that. As in the photos in the films.

Meanwhile, we have a kind of historical and patriotic reserve for the Great Patriotic War.

Absolutely miserable textbooks that "pass" the history of that war under the guidance of modern teachers, "providing educational services" - that's all. Young people do not want to watch miscarriages of Russian cinema. It is enough that their "Bad Comedian" will look and smash them to smithereens.

And how and what can we show and educate here?

Yes way.

There is nothing to show us. Because for one normal film there are a dozen of our nightmares like "Penal Battles" and "Bastards", and even Hollywood will throw a couple of dozen about how Private Ryan Hitler shot.

In these conditions, no matter how I criticize the often strange behavior of reenactors and their addiction to the use of strong, fortified and slightly diluted products, they have one of the main educational moments.

They can show. It is important. It's beautiful. This is useful.


Show the form. Show weapons. Arrange, albeit ostentatious, but a fight. Give an opportunity to approach the technique. At some festivals, shooting galleries were organized where you could shoot, albeit single, but from a real DShK or PPSh. It costs a lot.

So the creation of such popular copies, in my opinion, is a very useful and beautiful thing.









No matter how criticized those reenactors who wear German uniforms, and without them nowhere. They are just as interesting a component as our soldiers. Very often I met that this is "propaganda of fascism", and so on.

In fact, this is the propaganda of human stupidity. For I can imagine, of course, a T-34 driving somewhere and the Red Army soldiers running after it into the void, but, in my opinion, this is as ridiculous as shoving representatives of the Youth Army into any event. Who do not know how to keep up.

How do you evaluate what people do with their hands? Well, perhaps that's the only way. Therefore, there will be several stories ahead of both technology and its creation, and a certain amount of materials on small arms.

For myself, I answered the question whether it is necessary to build German tanks today. It turns out what you need. At least in order for the younger generations to see an almost real Pz.Kpfw.IV or STUG, evaluate and compare with our T-34 and Su-100, for example. What our ancestors really fought against, and not rickety monsters, created by what drawings do not understand.

I understand this, in the spirit of the Constitution, by “preserving history”.

That is why I invite you to a small cycle dedicated to historical exhibits of small reenactment collections. It will be interesting.

And since we simply do not have something to show and tell, I am sure that such creators of historical self-propelled manuals should be provided with all kinds of support.
Author:
133 comments
Ad

The editorial board of Voenniy Obozreniye urgently needs a proofreader. Requirements: impeccable knowledge of the Russian language, diligence, discipline. Contact: [email protected]

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Same lech
    Same lech 17 October 2020 06: 42 New
    35
    For myself, I answered the question whether it is necessary to build German tanks today. It turns out what you need.

    Of course you need ... here I agree with Roman one hundred percent ... I look at modern military series and I want to swear, everything looks so illiterate and unprofessional in terms of the surroundings of the Wehrmacht and the Red Army, but just soldiers and officers ... constant bloopers and wild absurdities.
    They show some kind of deranged political instructors (chernukha), semi-literate SS men ... they put a line on the equipment ... the directors at least looked at the documentary chronicle to understand what they were filming.
    The top of all this is the ridiculous state Duma law banning the demonstration of Nazi and fascist symbols in these films ... it seems that the deputies have just left a medical institution in a crowd.
    28 Panfilovites and the Brest Fortress filmed by the Belarusians, this is perhaps an exception to the rule where everything was made as close as possible to this war ... very powerful films.
    1. svp67
      svp67 17 October 2020 07: 18 New
      +2
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      The Brest Fortress removed by the Belarusians is perhaps an exception to the rule

      Yeah, considering that the Germans did not use tanks there, but only "Stugi", but in the film "German tank" rolls around ...
      1. akarfoxhound
        akarfoxhound 17 October 2020 07: 47 New
        17
        If for this film this is the only negative - "a German tank instead of a shtug", then this is almost an ideal film in form and content. At one time I was very much looking forward to the film "Sevastopol", a film about my hometown, military-historical maniacs, specialists, artwork in the hero-city, as well as in the Crimea - behind the eyes! And what happened at the output?
        1. svp67
          svp67 17 October 2020 07: 49 New
          -1
          Quote: akarfoxhound
          If for this film this is the only negative - "a German tank instead of a shtug", then this is almost an ideal film in form and content.

          Well, we touched the technique, but there is a lot of propaganda and little of history.
          1. Paul Siebert
            Paul Siebert 17 October 2020 13: 45 New
            13
            Quote: svp67

            Well, we touched the technique, but there is a lot of propaganda and little of history.

            It was really unbearable for me to see self-made German tanks in historical films.
            Converted from T-54 or T-55. And even from the T-34 or T-72 ... (((
            Freaks and Frankensteins.
            And so - the craftsmen took it all the same ...
            Taking off my hat.
            The technique looks amazing. "Hetzer" - as soon as from the factory ...
            "T-3" as fresh from the Panzerwaffe hangars.
            But in our cinema there is sadness not only with German technology.
            Ours is also a trouble. According to the plot, 1941 or 1942 - and the T-34-85 is being cut in the frame ... (
            In Soviet films, at least the plot was all right.
            Forever will remain in our memory and "They fought for the Motherland" and "Hot Snow" and "At Your Threshold".
            And in modern film shit, painted dolls in gymnasts from "Versacci" with manicure supposedly repair our tanks and go into deep sniper raids.
            Young undersized in the frame through the word utter "zashkvar", "in kind", "ofigenski ..."
            Dastardly commissars shoot honest Russian soldiers.
            And the super-spies behind the front line destroy entire garrisons and divisions of the Wehrmacht on the march ... (
            This is really - unbearable ... angry
            1. blackice
              blackice 18 October 2020 07: 38 New
              +8
              Nah.
              Converted T-55 or T-72 bullshit.
              But the IS-2 from MTLB is a masterpiece !!!
              When you watch such "zalipony" the whole film goes into the category of "people grab everything," that is, just d .... mo.
        2. Alexander Suvorov
          Alexander Suvorov 17 October 2020 08: 37 New
          26
          It's not about the technique that is being filmed, but about who and what is filming. The legendary "Only old men go to battle" did it become worse from the fact that there were far from La-5 and Bf-109 filmed? Yes, the surroundings of course deteriorate a little, but that's all. And the same "Aty-bats were soldiers" ?! So the point is not what technique is being filmed, but WHO is filming it. Bykov did not fight, but what masterpieces he took off, Pimanov did not fight either, but he took a real feat and ruined him to disgust with his slut wife.

          But, in fairness, looking at this technology is certainly more interesting than the T-44 in plywood.
          1. yehat2
            yehat2 17 October 2020 13: 02 New
            +2
            By the way, yes, I was told in my childhood that the T34 is the best tank of the war, but when in the films I saw the T44 from the Germans or the camouflaged hordes of "tigers" converted from the T-54, I involuntarily creeped in doubt that the T34 was the best))) like this shiz. I also don’t understand why the old war films don’t have a stump at all - only imitation of tanks of varying reliability. I learned about the existence of such a tank from the game panzer general 2
            1. Alexander Suvorov
              Alexander Suvorov 17 October 2020 13: 14 New
              0
              Here the point is most likely that there were no repairable Wehrmacht tanks, or were in a very limited number. If we remember that the Germans used our captured tanks, but how the German ones were not in use, then most likely the conclusion suggests itself that the German scrap metal was sent directly to the smelter. The only exception to steel can be Tigers and Panthers, which, although occasionally, but still flickered on the screen. There is nothing to say about Sturmgeschütz, although there were many more Tigers and Panthers combined.
              That's who I would look at in a movie so it is the German "Fedya", all the same the beast was still that, although it did not show itself to the fullest.
              1. BAI
                BAI 17 October 2020 18: 37 New
                +2
                That's who I would look at in a movie so it is the German "Fedya", all the same the beast was still that, although it did not show itself to the fullest.

                Film "At Your Threshold" 1963. Real German technology. Both Tiger and Ferdinand. But near Moscow, in 1941.
              2. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 21 October 2020 09: 41 New
                0
                Quote: Alexander Suvorov
                Here the point is most likely that the Wehrmacht's repairable tanks were either not there, or were in a very limited number. If you remember that the Germans used our captured tanks, but how the German ones were not in use with us, then most likely the conclusion is that German scrap metal was sent directly to the smelter.

                It was possible to ask the Bulgarians - they had a lot of German tanks dug in on the Turkish border, turned into bunkers. smile
          2. blackice
            blackice 18 October 2020 07: 41 New
            0
            Aircraft are at least somehow similar in general. But with tanks it doesn't work out very well.
            And at least the plywood was somehow more artistically sculpted.
            Although people of creativity do not understand. they see everything differently. laughing
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 12: 01 New
              -1
              ... Aircraft are at least somehow similar in general.

              If you mean Soviet cinema, then German airplanes are absolutely not alike.
              1. Saxahorse
                Saxahorse 18 October 2020 21: 06 New
                +2
                They are unlikely, of course, but at least planes fly fast. I slipped through the frame and okay. Everyone saw the cross. :) Tanks are worse, there is often a whole drama around them and a careful examination of the plywood spoils the picture.
                1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 21: 22 New
                  0
                  ... It's worse with tanks

                  Well, that is a given)
                  But! The presence in the frame of the 'correct' tanks in the series 'Tankman', for example, does not save this UG. Watched?
                  1. Saxahorse
                    Saxahorse 18 October 2020 22: 03 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                    Watched?

                    No. After reading the comments did not waste time. request
      2. faiver
        faiver 17 October 2020 23: 41 New
        0
        considering that the Germans did not use tanks there
        - they did not use their own, but the French samua were like
    2. Doccor18
      Doccor18 17 October 2020 07: 34 New
      13
      ... I look at modern military series and I want to swear, everything looks so illiterate and unprofessional in terms of the surroundings of the Wehrmacht and the Red Army, but just soldiers and officers ...

      To modern military cinema
      he gave up a long time ago. Incorrigible ..
      But what really amazed me was why Soviet films about the war of the 50-60s were shot without German equipment. The Great Patriotic War ended recently. Not all "iron" has been collected from the fields yet, and there is no enemy equipment. This has always been a question for me. It is especially unpleasant when German submachine gunners are running in the foreground, and in the background a Soviet T-55 with a swastika ...
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 17 October 2020 08: 44 New
        -2
        Because German tanks were a heap of feces, extremely difficult to operate, with an extremely low resource and very moody. Therefore, they were all sent to be melted back in the 40s, they simply could not move, and it would not have been possible to shoot them in a movie, especially since there were no spare parts for them.
        1. FIR FIR
          FIR FIR 17 October 2020 14: 00 New
          +2
          I am far from being a specialist in armored vehicles, since they
          were a bunch of feces, extremely difficult to operate, with an extremely low resource and very moody.
          it was impossible to insert Soviet engines and other stuffing into the T-IV or T-VI hull? Yes, just the Soviet engine and chassis "sheathed" so that it was as similar as possible ..? After all, no more than 10 copies are needed to shoot a film. When I see Ozerov's film epic, I understand that the USSR did not spare money for making films.
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 17 October 2020 16: 25 New
            0
            For the country devastated by the war, there was no time for this, the entire western part of the USSR had to be rebuilt.
            1. FIR FIR
              FIR FIR 17 October 2020 16: 37 New
              +1
              For the country devastated by the war, there was no time for this, the entire western part of the USSR had to be rebuilt.

              Agree with you.
              But the patriotic education of future generations should always come first. After all, children and youths of the 40s knew what German tanks looked like? Of course they knew.
              But I can not judge them. They had so much to do ...
              But for modern filmmakers about the Great Patriotic War, there are no excuses, and never will be.
        2. BAI
          BAI 17 October 2020 18: 40 New
          +3
          In 1984, Tiger on the Moscow railway ring road, under protection. I saw it myself. Not everything was melted down. In Zagorsk, the Tiger stood at the landfill until the mid-60s. Then they scrapped it.
        3. faiver
          faiver 17 October 2020 23: 45 New
          0
          all of them and sent to melt
          - what kind of remelting? Okstay, German captured tanks went to the armed forces of the armies of the Warsaw Pact countries, Finland, Israel, and even hell knows where ... especially since there were not very many German tanks ...
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 17 October 2020 23: 53 New
            0
            Yes Yes. Especially about Israel it is true, which from the very beginning of its origin received thousands of Shermans. As for Finland, you can still believe that the country is small, there is no special capacity for tank building, and therefore the Finns could well use German tanks for a long time, both captured and donated by Hitler. As for the ATS countries, Poland and Czechoslovakia produced the T-34-85 under license.
            1. faiver
              faiver 18 October 2020 00: 12 New
              0
              produced T-34-85 under license
              - straight from the 45th year?
              As for Finland, you can still believe that the country is small, with special capacities for tank building
              Is Israel a big country? And they had a lot of capacities in the 40s.
              Add Syria to the tank users of the Third Reich.
              Especially about Israel is true, which from the very beginning of its existence received thousands of Shermans
              - ask who imposed an arms embargo on the Middle East in 47 hi
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 21 October 2020 09: 46 New
            0
            Quote: faiver
            - what kind of remelting? Okstay, German captured tanks went to the armed forces of the armies of the Warsaw Pact countries, Finland, Israel, and even hell knows where ...

            The “fours” got to Israel by re-export - through Syria and Egypt. smile
            In the late 40s and early 50s, Pz.IVs were actively purchased by the countries of the Middle East, which created their own tank forces - Syria (more than 57 Ausf.H, according to other sources - 184 tanks of various modifications, including 55 Czechoslovak T-40/75 ), Egypt (approximately 50–70 units), Iraq (70–100 units). The USSR and other states of the Warsaw Pact, which armed their tank forces with the newest T-54/55, willingly supplied obsolete armored vehicles to “Arab friends”. Thus, German tanks again found themselves in the epicenter of hostilities: the Israeli War of Independence of 1948-49, the Suez Crisis of 1956, the Six-Day War of 1967, and so on. Having emerged victorious from these conflicts, Israel became the proud owner, according to various estimates, from 40 to 200 "fours", which were adopted by reserve tank units (they were removed from combat duty only in 1973-75).
            1. faiver
              faiver 21 October 2020 09: 50 New
              0
              "Fours" got to Israel by re-export
              - well, I don’t deny that either, they were rowing everything that was possible at that time ... hi
    3. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 17 October 2020 08: 16 New
      +1
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      directors even documentary chronicle

      this should be done by costumers and props
  2. lwxx
    lwxx 17 October 2020 06: 44 New
    +5
    I am sure that such creators of historical self-propelled manuals need to provide all kinds of support.
    Well, no, these same will not roll back, it is easier to allocate money to all kinds of filmmakers and other "cultural figures" who propagate our past from the "right angle".
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 17 October 2020 06: 57 New
    23
    In our country, Nazism is not propagated by form and technique, but by the fact that they are filming ..
    1. 41st region
      41st region 17 October 2020 07: 17 New
      18
      Exactly. Correspondence of form and "iron" is important. But first, it is necessary to "take out into the ravine" the "shooters of the present kin". And recruit new ones from vocational schools. Will be better. 100%.
  4. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 17 October 2020 07: 13 New
    11
    I agree with the author. But now a different "Trishkin Caftan" turns out in the cinema - if they try to bring the equipment, weapons, uniforms and ammunition as close as possible, then the scripts and the actors' play turn out to be a failure!
    How many times have already flashed on the screens, as for an almost identical pz38 SS men with rolled up sleeves and you note naturalness, and the next moment an actress with the appearance of a photo model, in full make-up, in a smoothed tunic and with a superbly delivered speech sneaks along the trench to the wounded political instructor , although in the last episode she said that she herself was from a remote Siberian village ...
    But we need to start restoring the cinema. Let it be tanks and armored cars, so that at least the experts do not irritate, and then, you see, and talented scriptwriters will grow up.
    1. svp67
      svp67 17 October 2020 07: 21 New
      +3
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      I agree with the author.

      And I don't like the lack of consistency. How people restore tanks and self-propelled guns, it's good, but how in the club of reenactors they removed the calendar with the guys in uniform and with weapons of the Great Patriotic War, what kind of circus? Although they had uniforms at that time, not to mention weapons ...
      As it is already necessary to decide that history can be carried in different ways to the children's masses
      1. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 17 October 2020 07: 52 New
        11
        Quote: svp67

        somehow it is already necessary to decide that history can be carried in different ways to the children's masses

        That's it. Here is the question - would the film "Penal Battalion" be better if it was used by real equipment from the Second World War? I guess not. This means that the matter is not only and not so much in the "real" technique as in the very ideology of the film, in the acting.
        The fact that enthusiasts build copies of technology is good. And, of course, if "real" tanks are shot in the films, it's also great, but the main thing is something else.
        I believe that thinking people understand what I mean.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 17 October 2020 09: 20 New
          +6
          The fact that enthusiasts build copies of technology is good. And, of course, if "real" tanks are shot in the films, it's also great, but the main thing is something else.

          Quite right, military equipment in cinema is nothing more than scenery. They should be identical to the moment, but the film is not made for the sake of showing the scenery. More precisely, it should not be done for their sake.
    2. parusnik
      parusnik 17 October 2020 07: 38 New
      +3
      and there, you see, and talented screenwriters will grow up.
      ... If they are not there now, where will they come from later.? And then any good script can spoil the director. Under the "totalitarian", "bloody" regime, when the censorship was "malignant", the films were stacked on the shelves, smile there was still auteur cinema in the country, the work of Alov and Naumov cannot be confused with the work of other directors, so as an example. Now, there is no such cinema. The impression is that the same person is filming, and filming such ha ... uh, such rubbish , and there is such a "drunk" in it .. laughing
      1. svp67
        svp67 17 October 2020 07: 56 New
        +1
        Quote: parusnik
        ... If they are not there now, where will they come from later.?

        There is, where did they go ...

        1. parusnik
          parusnik 17 October 2020 08: 12 New
          +3
          A bit better than that, but no more. Alas, this is my subjective opinion, but the Russian cinematography is indebted to me. laughing Let's see what kind of remake "Gloom River" ...
      2. tovarich-andrey.62goncharov
        tovarich-andrey.62goncharov 17 October 2020 14: 23 New
        +1
        It's just that EPRST & Co are behind them ...
    3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 14: 12 New
      -2
      ... and there, you see, and talented screenwriters will grow up.

      Nda, I can imagine their writings in 15-20 years, when they 'grow up'. But, however, by that time their nonsense will find a grateful, unassuming spectator. Are you even sure that in 20 years the topic of war will be in demand?
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 18 October 2020 14: 23 New
        -1
        Will be. With our flywheel of history, when there is nothing more to be proud of, until 2045, films on the theme of the Great Patriotic War will be filmed like on an assembly line! Slag, rubbish, improbable, but if only the stars on the wings, but the crosses on the towers.
        And then less.
        As we have now about the war of 1812.
  5. akarfoxhound
    akarfoxhound 17 October 2020 07: 39 New
    0
    I agree with the author 100% !!!
  6. Thrifty
    Thrifty 17 October 2020 08: 13 New
    +2
    “What we have, we don’t keep, having lost — we cry!” Since we don’t have our own samples of equipment suitable for filming on the move, then let them make it even better from plywood, but at least visually similar copies for filming!
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 October 2020 22: 37 New
      -2
      ... then let it be better to make at least from plywood, but at least visually similar d

      Well, that's what they do. One was made for Panfilov's men. (by the way, the cost is 3 million)
  7. Ros 56
    Ros 56 17 October 2020 08: 21 New
    0
    Here Roman, I agree with you more than ever, the history must be known.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 October 2020 22: 42 New
      -5
      Drive to Kubinka and enjoy the history of BTT - who's in the way?
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 18 October 2020 07: 36 New
        0
        With pleasure, Duc to retire it is somehow complicated, the devil knows how many relatives have not seen.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 12: 52 New
          -4
          Then what is it about?
      2. 41st region
        41st region 18 October 2020 12: 27 New
        0
        Comrade, I cannot "go". Distance - 6700 km. Only the plane. You can spend a lot of time talking about the ticket price (not to the museum).
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 12: 47 New
          -6
          Well? Do you need your tank museum in Kamchatka in connection with this?
          1. 41st region
            41st region 18 October 2020 13: 06 New
            +2
            No, in Kamchatka we need the same opportunity to visit the museum in Kubinka as you do. Explained clearly?
            I think the entire Far East thinks the same way. And also Siberia and the Urals.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 13: 29 New
              -2
              Well, one cannot but agree with that. And I, as a resident of central Russia, would fly to Kamchatka and Sakhalin with great pleasure.
  8. Gubernia
    Gubernia 17 October 2020 08: 36 New
    -5
    I remembered one statement from the film Beauty is when there is nothing superfluous, about a tank ..

    For myself, I answered the question whether it is necessary to build German tanks today. It turns out what you need. At least in order for the younger generations to see an almost real Pz.Kpfw.IV or STUG, evaluate and compare with our T-34 and Su-100, for example. What our ancestors really fought against, and not rickety monsters, created by what drawings do not understand.

    Roman spoke excellently, I think so too hi
  9. Homos
    Homos 17 October 2020 08: 40 New
    +9
    I will support the author. Yesterday we were at a living history lesson near Vyazma. The event was held in memory of the breakthrough of the Vyazemsky boiler for 2 years in a row. The children dressed in the military uniform of the Soviet army and marched along the route as Soviet units entered from the encirclement. This time, due to covid restrictions, there were no reenactors to portray the enemy. The event turned into a hike. An important, on the whole original, but a hike. The dive was stronger last time, especially when reenactors in German uniforms staged an attack on the camp of people who had just stopped from the march to eat. They attacked clearly with all special effects, explosions and blank fire. And it seems not 41 years old, but I have never seen such a panic in the ranks of teenagers. It seems that in those 10 minutes that they were fired upon, many life flew before their eyes. It will be remembered for a long time ...
  10. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 17 October 2020 10: 59 New
    +4
    Need to. Definitely needed. I have seen more than once how in many countries around the world work is being done to educate young people.
    Several years ago, I even wrote about this on VO in an article about the Museum of American Armored Vehicles in Long Island, which, among other things, is a well-equipped base of local reenactors.
    https://topwar.ru/143917-muzey-amerikanskoy-bronetehniki-long-aylend.html

    The museum is also doing a lot of work on the patriotic education of the younger generation. On the basis of the museum, special thematic lessons are held for schoolchildren. They are led by professional military men, military historians, specialist instructors and well-trained volunteers.

    By the way, more recently, the Sheptaev brothers went under article 20.3 of the Administrative Offenses Code of the Russian Federation "Propaganda or public display of Nazi paraphernalia or symbols, or paraphernalia or symbols of extremist organizations, or other paraphernalia or symbols, propaganda or public display of which is prohibited by federal laws." For this reason, for all the fame and significance of the military-historical club "Prokhorovskoe Pole", not a single tank is provided with reliable coloring and symbols. Only quite recently, the Duma introduced an amendment to this law, which, I hope, will calm down excessively zealous officials who have been drinking the blood of enthusiastic reenactors for years.

    No matter how criticized those reenactors who wear German uniforms, and without them nowhere. They are just as interesting a component as our soldiers. Very often I met that this is "propaganda of fascism", and so on.

    Criticism is a trifle. You should have listened to the filmmakers making films about the Second World War. It turns out that during the shooting on location, you have to hire a lot of security guards to protect the extras depicting the Nazis. Innocent people, in a patriotic frenzy, arrive in whole buses to "beat the fascist invaders"! Actors who played the role of Germans in films for years receive threatening letters, and their property is destroyed by vandals.
    1. Alex013
      Alex013 17 October 2020 13: 18 New
      0
      Totally agree with you. By the way, the article, the link to which in the comment, is the first one,
      read by me on this site.
    2. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 17 October 2020 14: 23 New
      0
      Quote: A. Privalov

      Criticism is a trifle. You should have listened to the filmmakers making films about the Second World War. It turns out that during the shooting on location, you have to hire a lot of security guards to protect the extras depicting the Nazis. Innocent people, in a patriotic frenzy, arrive in whole buses to "beat the fascist invaders"! Actors who played the role of Germans in films for years receive threatening letters, and their property is destroyed by vandals.

      Don't talk nonsense, it hurts, and my slippers are funny.
    3. albert
      albert 17 October 2020 21: 27 New
      -1
      Quote: A. Privalov
      hearty people in a patriotic frenzy come in whole buses "to beat the fascist invaders"! Actors who played the role of Germans in films for years receive threatening letters, and their property is destroyed by vandals.
      I’m not against reenactors and I know such guys myself, but you have to understand that the fascist uniform is different from the clothes of the knights or the hussars of Napoleon. The buhurt is over, take it off right away. And for the cause. People have a genetic memory for this. However, I believe that if someone in Tel Aviv decides to walk in the uniform of the Germans, he will also get on his face. And also for the cause.
  11. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 17 October 2020 11: 27 New
    -1
    Definitely needed.
    And not just to build models, but to create complete replicas of equipment that the ancestors, through thoughtlessness, lack of funds, or by accident, could not keep.
    This is, above all, a part of the cultural heritage, which is prone to get lost if there are no material objects left.
    On a reasonable scale, of course.
    Building, for example, a battleship is beyond common sense.
    Although, for example, sailing battleships are being built even here ("Poltava") to create museums.
    1. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 17 October 2020 12: 00 New
      0
      Quote: Narak-zempo

      This is, above all, a part of the cultural heritage, which is prone to get lost if there are no material objects left.

      Yeah. German armored vehicles are "part of the CULTURAL heritage. Lord, where do you come from, guardians of Russian culture !!!"
      Yes, the main thing is the entourage, the scenery, but the idea of ​​the film, the play of the actors ... but why are they needed ?! Did I understand you correctly?
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 17 October 2020 12: 02 New
        +2
        I never talked about cinema at all.
        Does the concept of "material culture" mean anything to you?
        A tank is the same object of material culture as, for example, an ancient shard or a fragment of a sword, or a stone tool.
        When a weapon loses its combat value, it turns exactly that into an object of the cultural heritage of its era, like any other product.
        1. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 17 October 2020 14: 21 New
          -1
          Quote: Narak-zempo
          I never talked about cinema at all.

          And I'm not talking about him.
          I'm talking about your GERMAN tanks as part of the "cultural heritage of Russia"
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 17 October 2020 15: 55 New
            +1
            Why Russia?
            German tanks are part of Germany's cultural heritage.
            Although, as winners in the war for which they were created, we have the right to own part of it.
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 17 October 2020 18: 50 New
              0
              Quote: Narak-zempo
              Why Russia?

              Because you wrote it that way! Refresh in your memory what you have written -
              Quote: Narak-zempo
              Definitely needed.
              And not just to build models, but to create complete replicas of equipment that the ancestors, through thoughtlessness, lack of funds, or by accident, could not keep.
              This is, above all, a part of the cultural heritage, which is prone to get lost if there are no material objects left.
              1. Narak-zempo
                Narak-zempo 17 October 2020 19: 29 New
                -1
                And where is about Russia?
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 17 October 2020 23: 02 New
                  0
                  Quote: Narak-zempo

                  And not just to build models, but to create complete replicas of equipment that the ancestors, through thoughtlessness, lack of funds, or by accident, could not keep.

                  All this you were going to build and create on Mars not otherwise. And your ancestors - the Martians "through thoughtlessness or accident could not save."
                  Enough already. Agree that they blurted out out of thought for the sake of beautiful phrases.
                  1. Narak-zempo
                    Narak-zempo 18 October 2020 08: 23 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    All this you were going to build and create on Mars not otherwise. And your ancestors - the Martians "through thoughtlessness or accident could not save."
                    Enough already. Agree that they blurted out out of thought for the sake of beautiful phrases.

                    In general, I meant all of humanity and the technology of all countries.
                    But if it calms you down, I agree.
            2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 October 2020 22: 47 New
              0
              Quote: Narak-zempo
              German tanks are part of Germany's cultural heritage.
              Although, as winners in the war for which they were created, we have the right to own part of it.


              Powerful thought. It is necessary to demand half of the exposition of the Munich Museum. We have the right. laughing
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 October 2020 21: 48 New
      -1
      Quote: Narak-zempo
      And not just build layouts, but create complete replicas of equipment

      Enough to shake the air - "must, must" .... Call the "Rondo-S" modeling studio and ask how much it costs to build a working model of a tiger, panther, stug, fours, etc.
  12. Alien From
    Alien From 17 October 2020 11: 32 New
    0
    This is a very important topic, it needs to be discussed at the state level.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 October 2020 21: 51 New
      -1
      Quote: Alien From
      This is a very important topic, it needs to be discussed at the state level.

      what exactly to discuss?
      1. Alien From
        Alien From 18 October 2020 06: 22 New
        -1
        Don't you guess ???
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 10: 10 New
          -3
          I do not see the subject of discussion. What, in your opinion, should the state be concerned with? By building ancient tanks on an industrial scale? What a whim?
          1. Alien From
            Alien From 18 October 2020 10: 49 New
            -1
            Bliss in education. Do not agree????
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 11: 04 New
              -3
              In bringing up what? Again about the plywood Reichstag?
              1. Alien From
                Alien From 18 October 2020 11: 11 New
                -1
                In the upbringing of youth. Do not juggle.
                1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 13: 43 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Alien From
                  In the upbringing of youth. Do not juggle.

                  Oh, well, well, well, yes. 'Educators' want to see in the subsequent generation an improved cast of themselves. Pranksters and mentors who impose their own ideological matrix. This is normal, it has always been and will be.
  13. seacap
    seacap 17 October 2020 12: 07 New
    0
    What and how our "gifted" people are now filming from the garbage-beau monde, where the main task of the director is to somehow attach another, released in circulation, kept woman who is not burdened with intelligence and is "imprisoned" for a different kind of activity and services , suddenly imagining herself a "star." So these "masterpieces" without a plot, elementary knowledge of psychology and the subject of the story, banal common sense, at least elementary logic should be generally prohibited from viewing by children and people with an unstable psyche, positioned as 40+ for special Complete nonsense, and in everything, even without paying attention to the Urals and the 157th instead of Busesings and Studers, anyone who served even the "urgent" one will start spitting from the very first frames, before the hero opens his mouth. This confirms once again to what degree of degradation our education, creativity and society as a whole have reached.
  14. ENOTE
    ENOTE 17 October 2020 12: 10 New
    0
    Yes, unfortunately, even with the USSR, the attitude towards technology was disregarding. And in the army, where she was pushed and pushed and then written off. And in civilian life it is no better. Vandals all around. For example, in the village of Mozhaiskoye near Vologda there is a museum in the corresponding estate. So at one time, an Il-14 plane was installed there (he himself sat down at the airfield and then was towed along the highway). He even had engines in good order and dripped a little oil. And what do you think in a couple of years this plane was plundered into wires and metal! There is nothing left ... The same fate is at the Il-28 monument in Vologda. He flew in himself, and now the cabins are boarded up with galvanized steel and everything is smeared with oil paint ... Such squalor is worth it!
    And if you compare the old times. How many design bureaus made good machines, in aviation, in other industries. Then his loyal design bureau will crawl through, and the rest will go to the trash heap. One Tupolev trampled down how many before the war and after. And how many were unique samples and did not take care of the massive ones. Since not yours!
  15. Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 17 October 2020 12: 50 New
    0
    What is there to do? Here, too, they planted a bomb under history; they did not leave historical technology.
    In our village in the 80s there were 3 fighters as monuments, but in the open air, randomly, without insurance ... Everything was lost in general.

    According to the BBC films, there was special information about their reconstruction. Short:
    1) completely historical cars and airplanes. Very expensive. Doesn't actually fly. Because expensive.
    2) The case is old, the filling is made of modern materials, but authentic. Cheaper. Flies more often.
    3) Antique case made of modern materials, modern filling. Even cheaper. Flies in parades, acts in films. almost a workhorse, but expensive.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 11: 19 New
      -3
      On all three points, airplanes are drawn in the movies. Nobody will bother with the construction of full-fledged flying certified copies - it's expensive and unnecessary. Individual copies for collectors and interested organizations (such as KB) are building model studios. They can easily steal a copy of the Yak-3 or Il-2 for the factory museum. Not binomial Newton for.
      If you want to see the real bf. 109 (albeit Spanish) - watch the good old 'Battle of Britain' 1969)
      1. Aleks2000
        Aleks2000 18 October 2020 14: 21 New
        0
        Partly true. BUT:
        1) Easy to draw now, not 30 years ago.
        2) they are restored and sold not to filmmakers, but to collectors and fans. And they can already rent it to filmmakers. As with us.
        3) Workshops are often located at aviation storage warehouses, old airfields, etc.
        Fortunately, there are more of them in YSA, there are more people than ours, richer, and better manufacturing technologies to order.

        In a 20-year-old BBC film, they just took it, and from carbon fiber (it was emphasized, the level of formula 1,), according to old drawings, they quickly made a custom-made body of some old vintage car. ...
        For airplanes - more often spare parts are made for old ones
  16. bubalik
    bubalik 17 October 2020 14: 33 New
    +3
    ,, films on the theme of the Second World War can be shot without equipment. "A DREAM IS HERE QUIET" is a wonderful film without mass military equipment. You can alternate the plot in the film with newsreel footage.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 October 2020 22: 57 New
      -1
      Quote: bubalik
      ,, films on the theme of the Second World War can be shot without equipment.

      Can. But recently, the list of things without which you can shoot a war movie has expanded greatly. Now you can shoot without a sane script, without careful casting, without professionally written dialogues, without talented directing. And then to promote this cranberry on federal channels and oblige schools to take the kids to watch this slag.
      You know, the lack of full-size models of military equipment is not the biggest problem.
  17. boris epstein
    boris epstein 17 October 2020 14: 57 New
    0
    Yes, in films, the T-44 in the role of the Tiger also scratches my eye a little. Yes, it would be nice to shoot films with a reliable nature. Although the value of the film "In War as in War" does not suffer from the fact that the T-34 is attacked in the foreground. 85 and Su-100, and in the background-T-54. And the value of the film "The Living and the Dead" is not lost due to the fact that the role of T-IV is played again by T-44. Although there are also natural German "troikas" from the Mosfilm storerooms, near the Serpilin checkpoint and in front of the trenches. And the storerooms are not eternal and not endless. But there is another way of educating young people - copy assembled models. Instructions for assembling them are given their performance characteristics. Here it is much cheaper to walk around by comparison. Yes, you can't shoot them in the film. I have T-34-85 and Panther with T-IV of 1942, IS-2 and Tiger, Su-100, ISU-152 and Ferdinand, T-34-76 of 1940 and T-IV of 1941, and on appetizer-T-80 and Abrams.
  18. Hagen
    Hagen 17 October 2020 15: 02 New
    -1
    "..... And if you could visit the military-historical festival" Battlefield "and see what they bring from the garages of" Mosfilm "... The complete impression that the bricklayers were building drunk since last year." Come on, okay, gray, with a square tower "- that's something like that. As in the photo in the films ....."
    Actually, it would be nice for us to set up some kind of body, like the "Institute of National Memory", which, among other things, will be responsible for conducting historical examinations of all works (novels, scripts for films and plays, monuments, proposals for assigning historical names to geographical objects, etc.) before implementing these projects and putting them up for public use.
    1. Magog_
      Magog_ 17 October 2020 21: 01 New
      -1
      And who will carry out these very examinations? Historians? That's just it! History is written to order, starting with the Byzantine Choniates, where Christ is represented by the "beast" - hence the general misconception about the "number of the beast", etc. Films about the war are consulted by specialists from GlavPur - and - hence the whole "truth of war" with the "invincible Marshal of Victory" in the foreground ... The unreliability of technology is the innocent pranks of cinema.
      1. Hagen
        Hagen 17 October 2020 22: 29 New
        -1
        Quote: Magog_
        And who will carry out these very examinations? Historians?

        Yes, historians. We have quite a few highly respected and authoritative specialists in this industry. Precisely those who would not be allowed on the screens of "Bastards" and "Penal Battalion". Or at least the financing of such libels from the state budget.
        1. Magog_
          Magog_ 18 October 2020 00: 53 New
          -2
          Who or what prevents these "quite respected and authoritative specialists" from engaging in HISTORY now? Without any new formations such as commissions, institutions, committees, bureaus, etc. I agree. There are decent people among the historians, but they are literally rotten and poisoned by numerous flocks of colleagues. As a result: they are neither heard nor seen. Moreover, this happens to anyone who dares to speak, following logical, well-grounded reasoning. The "flock" even has an approach to their statements: "it is important not WHAT said, but WHO said." That is, there are historians, in their opinion, who should be listened to and heard, and there are those who are "white crows" - close your ears and shut your eyes!
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 October 2020 21: 16 New
      -4
      Quote: Hagen
      Actually, it would be nice for us to set up some kind of body, like the "Institute of National Memory", which, among other things, will be responsible for conducting historical examinations of all works (novels, scripts for films and plays, monuments, proposals for assigning historical names to geographical objects, etc.) before implementing these projects and putting them up for public use.

      Are you seriously?
      1. Hagen
        Hagen 17 October 2020 22: 25 New
        -1
        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Are you seriously?

        Do you have a better suggestion?
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 October 2020 23: 19 New
          -4
          Better than what? Ideas to mold some semblance of the Soviet ideological sector under the Central Committee? Nostalgia?
          1. Hagen
            Hagen 18 October 2020 14: 42 New
            0
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Better what?

            Obviously, the current state of affairs suits you perfectly. Why then ask questions?
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 14: 54 New
              -3
              ... Why then ask questions?

              The origins of this inescapable longing for censorship are just interesting)
              1. Hagen
                Hagen 18 October 2020 16: 13 New
                -1
                Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                The origins of this inescapable longing for censorship are just interesting)

                I think that biased willful lies must be revealed before they do their rotten work in fragile minds. In this case, discerning criticism is quite appropriate. And an expert preliminary assessment will help to avoid, for example, cases when nearby streets are named after the killer and his victim, or ridiculous statements by high-ranking officials on complex historical events.
                1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 16: 36 New
                  -1
                  The body proposed by you, sorry, will not be independent. Sewn into the system, it will be an ordinary bureaucratic jar with spiders, opportunistic and pocket a'la 'what do you want? 'And what, I wonder, will be the selection criteria for the Areopagus? Loyalty and 'correct' position in historical interpretations? So, I believe that all the cine slag of the last decade would have passed the filters of this 'organ' quite safely and without losses. I'm judging by obsessive PR on the fed. bullshit channels such as 'Tanks', 'Crimea', 'T-34' and others like that.
                  1. Hagen
                    Hagen 18 October 2020 16: 51 New
                    0
                    Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                    So, I believe that all the cine slag of the last decade would have passed the filters of this 'organ' quite safely and without losses.

                    This is what you think. Moreover, on the assumptions of a phenomenon that has not yet happened. And I see that, for example, films that have passed the Soviet censorship can be watched over and over again, and sometimes it makes you sick from the creations of modern "free artists" and you need to hide children. And the creations that, at the expense of the state, throw dirt on the same state are phenomena that do not have common sense at all. The state must educate its citizens, lead them to a "brighter future", and not follow their lead, indulging their inflamed meager mind.
                    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 17: 16 New
                      -1
                      ... And I see that, for example, films that have passed the Soviet censorship,

                      On average, the Soviet assembly line produced 100 films a year. There was plenty of slag among this shaft. For the entire existence of Soviet cinema, about 3% fell on the notorious 'shelf'. Most - because of no thin. values. To count the masterpieces of a military theme, fingers of two hands are enough, to be honest. An empty vehicle such as 'Mercedes escapes from the pursuit', 'The crew of a combat vehicle' and similar things are definitely not included here. Reaching or at least approaching the level of "They fought ...", "In the war ..." and similar treasures are not given to the new Russian cinema for a number of reasons. And no 'organs' will fix the situation.' Never again, 'as the crow in Edgar Poe said.
                      ... The state must educate its citizens, lead them to a "bright future",

                      It does this by virtue of its understanding - eternal concern with its own past. Citizens are encouraged to go forward with their heads turned back. It's not very convenient, is it?
                      1. Hagen
                        Hagen 18 October 2020 17: 19 New
                        0
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        It does this by virtue of its understanding - eternal concern with its own past. Citizens are encouraged to go forward with their heads turned back. It's not very convenient, is it?

                        It's easier for Mankurt. They have no memory, nowhere to look back ...
                      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 17: 36 New
                        -1
                        ... It's easier for Mankurt. They have no memory, nowhere to look back ...

                        Maybe you are right. This has an advantage - no painful reflections and buridan complexes.
                      3. Hagen
                        Hagen 18 October 2020 18: 01 New
                        0
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Maybe you are right. This has an advantage - no painful reflections and buridan complexes.

                        Not quite sure what Monsieur Jean has to do with it? But personally I am FOR remembering who we are, why we are and where we are from, even if it is sometimes painful. Looking back, you well understand that our "today" will turn into tomorrow. You probably don't need this. Will you teach this to your children too?
                      4. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 18: 39 New
                        -1
                        ... But personally I am FOR remembering who we are, why we are and where we are from,

                        And who is stopping you from defining your identity? Or do you need to talk about it all the time from every iron? Only it is possible without strain, dostoyevshchina, poking around in the past in search of evidence of its exceptionalism?
                      5. Hagen
                        Hagen 19 October 2020 06: 39 New
                        0
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Or is it necessary to be muttering about it all the time from every iron

                        You obviously don't remember how it all started. It all started with the fact that the West began to feed the former SS and new Nazis in Eastern Europe, smash monuments to the liberation soldiers and accuse Russia of unleashing wars.
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Only it is possible without strain, dostoyevshchina, poking around in the past in search of evidence of its exceptionalism?

                        About exclusivity, you generally put your finger in the sky .... Because about exclusivity, we have specialists behind a puddle, as much as with Woodrow Wilson, if not earlier.
                        So our identity is fine. We define it at the level of conversations. But you know, everything can change. Now, it is not Navalny who will replace Putin, but, say, Dyumin (abstractly), with more radical views than Putin's, about "identity", and will send the whole West into the woods for some new year on gas issues, with which they have no way they cannot make a decision at home. I think you yourself need to grasp the essence of the question, where his legs grow from, and only then complain about the "irons".
                      6. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 07: 35 New
                        -1
                        .The West began to feed the former SS and new Nazis in Eastern Europe, smash the monuments to the soldiers-liberators

                        How interesting. And you, therefore, in the spirit of this nonsense, propose to educate children?
                        Well, where do without
                        ... on gas issues

                        The main thing is to invest in young brains that hydrocarbons are our main value and property.
                        It is strange that not a word about Stalin. How so? Don't you pass on icons by inheritance?
                        ... About exclusivity, you are generally a finger in the sky ..

                        Nothing like this. The constant declaration of one's historical correctness, the role of the savior of everything and everyone, sweeping under the carpet of obvious mistakes and systemic vices, primitive, intelligible, unambiguous, pathetic mythology - all this is aimed at forming a unique nation complex among the people.
                      7. Hagen
                        Hagen 19 October 2020 10: 43 New
                        0
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        In the spirit of this nonsense, do you propose to bring up children?

                        What do you mean by "nonsense"? My disagreement with the Waffen-SS veterans parades in the Baltic states and Ukraine? Then, are you FOR the propaganda of their "exploits"?
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        It is strange that not a word about Stalin.

                        This is your phrase. Not mine. But I understand that on his behalf you are jarred. This is an indicator of your position.
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Constant declaration of their historical correctness

                        So what? Do you disagree? Take the documents and try to refute. While you are just doing, to put it mildly, empty praise. Excuse me for the immodest question, do you live in the Russian Federation?
                      8. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 11: 03 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Hagen
                        While you are just doing, to put it mildly, empty praise.

                        actually, like you)
                        Quote: Hagen
                        Excuse me for the immodest question, do you live in the Russian Federation?

                        sacramental and predictable question) Yes, in Moscow. Any conclusions from my place of residence?
                        Quote: Hagen
                        But I understand that on his behalf you are jarred.

                        Come on. For me, this is one of the historical figures of the 20th century on a par with Churchill, Hitler, Paul Pot, Mao and others like him. Jarring from fanatics. Fanaticism, you know, dulls)
                      9. Hagen
                        Hagen 19 October 2020 12: 48 New
                        0
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        actually, like you)

                        I won't even try. Putin said everything at the meeting, and then wrote it down in the article. And I agree with him. This is my position. But it would be better for you to argue your disagreement with something significant.
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Any conclusions from my place of residence?

                        I will take my word for it and without any conclusions. In addition, it is already clear that there is a pro-Western-minded category of citizens in the country. As they say, God is your judge (for now).
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        For me, this is one of the historical persons of the 20th century on a par with Churchill, Hitler, Paul Pot, Mao and others

                        Well, the ideology of world citizenship exists, regardless of the attitude towards it ... In any case, I think, it would not leave your relatives indifferent during the Second World War.
                      10. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 13: 07 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Hagen
                        your relatives during the Second World War, she would not leave indifferent.

                        And you do everything with an eye on the "relatives of the Second World War"?
                        Quote: Hagen
                        ideology of world citizenship exists

                        of course. But I don't understand what my thesis has to do with it.
                        Quote: Hagen
                        Putin said everything at the meeting, and then wrote it down in the article.

                        let him say and write whatever you like. He is not a historian. And as the first person of the state cannot be objective by definition. Is it your choice to look into his mouth and turn everything he said into dogma? Well, so you can get to the semblance of Mao's quotation book))
                        Quote: Hagen
                        And I agree with him.

                        for God's sake. This is your own business.
                        Quote: Hagen
                        But it would be better for you to argue your disagreement with something significant.

                        "I'm sorry, do you want to open a discussion right now?" (from)
                        Quote: Hagen
                        As they say, God is your judge (for now).

                        wow - bye laughing
                        What a cute threat.
                      11. Hagen
                        Hagen 19 October 2020 14: 37 New
                        0
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Is it your choice to look into his mouth and turn everything he said into dogma?

                        I am explaining the misunderstood. In his historical delights, Putin referred to documents that no one can yet question or refute. And I agree with this point of view. Not at all because it was Putin who said it, but because the documents say so. Do you feel the difference? The document is not a philosophical saying. I think you understand this perfectly well, but deliberately combine two incompatible concepts into one.
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        "I'm sorry, do you want to open a discussion right now?"

                        And if you don't want to, then what kind of goblin bugs to crush on the keyboard? Read it - leafed through ... Do you like to drive empty?
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        wow - bye

                        We are all in this world "bye" ... laughing
                      12. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 19 October 2020 14: 56 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Hagen
                        Do you like to drive empty?

                        Let's go back to the beginning: your ridiculous idea of ​​creating some kind of inspecting body vested with the authority to poke a snout into everything that is written, filmed and said was empty. My remark was about that. What does Putin have to do with his "historical delights" (in what - "delights"! laughing )
                      13. Hagen
                        Hagen 19 October 2020 15: 45 New
                        0
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        back to the beginning:

                        Suggest sculpting ... I feel, not according to Juan sombrero ... laughing
  • Alesi13
    Alesi13 17 October 2020 17: 01 New
    0
    It's amazing, now you are specialists, remember yourself as boys, your identity in the cinema worried you, the fascists were fascists, of course the ugliness is now off scale
    1. Gato
      Gato 17 October 2020 17: 39 New
      0
      remember yourself as boys, your identity worried

      Yes. In the glorious city of Nikopol stood (and probably still stands) a monument with the IS-2, which I walked past every day. And in a movie about the war, he suddenly portrays a German tiger, or a panther - the immersion in the film immediately disappeared ...
      1. Alesi13
        Alesi13 17 October 2020 22: 08 New
        0
        Come on, don't be ridiculous, at 5-7 years old he distinguished IP from others
  • Gato
    Gato 17 October 2020 17: 33 New
    0
    another set of freaks that should be tanks.

    Yes, Liberation sinned like that. The IS-3 can hardly be called freaks, but when they depict German tanks in the background for mass scale ... No. Was there really not enough plywood for such an epic in the USSR?
  • Old26
    Old26 17 October 2020 19: 15 New
    +1
    Quote: ENOTE
    Yes, unfortunately, even with the USSR, the attitude towards technology was disregarding. And in the army, where she was pushed and pushed and then written off. And in civilian life it is no better. Vandals all around. For example, in the village of Mozhaiskoye near Vologda there is a museum in the corresponding estate. So at one time, an Il-14 plane was installed there (he himself sat down at the airfield and then was towed along the highway). He even had engines in good order and dripped a little oil. And what do you think in a couple of years this plane was plundered into wires and metal! There is nothing left ... The same fate is at the Il-28 monument in Vologda. He flew in himself, and now the cabins are boarded up with galvanized steel and everything is smeared with oil paint ... Such squalor is worth it!

    Why are there monuments in the cities. About 10 years ago, my friend, who served then (PIC on AN-72), was with a crew in Monino. I don't know how they were able to get into the TU-144's cabin, but the photos of the pilot's cockpit were shocked. Not only were some of the instruments torn out by the roots, but instead of the left armchair there was an ordinary chair from the 50s, and this is in the museum.
    And in the park we have the MIG-21 cabin, like the IL-28 cabin, protected by an assessment ...
    The hatches of the T-34 are welded and there is a plug in the barrel so that beer bottles do not end up there ...
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 October 2020 20: 53 New
    -1
    If I'm not mistaken, the real "four" only appeared in "The Living and the Dead") Well, of course, ausfurung iot in 41 is impossible, but still.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 October 2020 22: 01 New
      -1
      No, though. Four more (real) were in the 1962 film At Your Doorstep!

      1. bubalik
        bubalik 17 October 2020 22: 28 New
        +1

        ,,, here is a howitzer, also like a real one.
        From the film ,, Five from Heaven ,,
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 October 2020 23: 07 New
          -3
          I'm talking about natural German tanks in Soviet cinema. In the same film, by the way, (At your doorstep) there was also a living Ferdinand, it seems, flashed.
  • Shadow041
    Shadow041 17 October 2020 21: 26 New
    +3
    Is it not easier to make historically accurate tanks in cinema using computer graphics?
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 17 October 2020 22: 31 New
      -1
      Yes, of course, it's both easier and cheaper. But it also looks cheap. Although, technology does not stand still)
      For example, in Rage they drew a tiger, but for PR they drove out a blizzard, saying that they were filming a real one, rented in Bovington.
  • tolancop
    tolancop 17 October 2020 21: 52 New
    0
    Great stuff !!! And the question is correct and necessary. This is who the state could help - the enthusiasts of restoring old military equipment. Even in the new version, but in any case it is better than what we now have. I regularly watch old films about the war. And there, with the props, not everything is smooth (despite the power and funding of THAT state), but this is forgivable given that the films had an idea. Take the same "Only old men go to battle" .... MASTERPIECE !!! Against this background, the fact that the planes in the frame do not look much like fighters is somehow lost, since the scenery against the background of SPIRIT (I searched for a suitable word for a long time, but did not find it) of the film is somehow secondary. And the current crafts? Neither thought, nor props ... it’s good if you can do without vulgarity ... Immediately after reading the material, the thought arose: if a film on a historical theme (at least the Second World War) does not correspond to the reliability of the props, then shish you, citizens, creators, and not a rental certificate ... Censorship? Sure!!! But it will only be for the good, so that all sorts of scoundrels do not pour mud on our glorious past. And then I thought: "And who will be the censors?" ... And they will be the same shit, alas .... It's sad ...
    zs Maybe it would be more expedient to spend part of the funds invested in the Patriot park on creating remakes for renting to filmmakers? I believe that this would be a more correct application. And a place in Russia where to pray would be found without difficulty .... there would be a need and desire.
  • Stone
    Stone 17 October 2020 23: 10 New
    0
    Excellent and useful article. And the guys are doing even more necessary work by creating military equipment from the times of the Second World War. This summer, when we went to Crimea, we were just at the exhibition of these tanks. The children were delighted.



  • Storm Uesugi
    Storm Uesugi 18 October 2020 12: 19 New
    -2
    Yes, I feel sorry for the technology, only it was, even in service stood like the Baltic ports.
    BUT there are still tacks in the museum, but only the groove and the panther were restored there.
    Why does the state not want to invest in the restoration of the Korlevsky tiger, Yashdigr, Ferdinand and Mouse - we have a tank factory! (and they would drink babal))
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 16: 20 New
      -1
      And what kind of
      ... Baltic doors.
      ?
  • Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 18 October 2020 14: 39 New
    0
    Quote: Paul Siebert
    Forever will remain in our memory and "They fought for the Motherland" and "Hot Snow" and "At Your Threshold".

    A wonderful and very truthful, albeit short, Soviet film "In War as in War"!
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 18 October 2020 16: 17 New
      -1
      ... albeit a short, Soviet film "In War as in War"!

      What does 'short' mean? Hour and a half. Long meter.
  • Momotomba
    Momotomba 19 October 2020 10: 33 New
    +1
    Yes, even if the "hardware" does not look the same as in reality, let the tanks be removed from plywood ... But call the consultants! Let them tell you what can be and what is not! There is not even the slightest understanding of tactics and common sense! This is the main problem. And the correctness of the appearance of the techniques is secondary.
  • Blue fox
    Blue fox 19 October 2020 11: 14 New
    0
    The planes were ruthlessly destroyed, the remaining pair of Il-2 and the same amount of Po-2, and that was all.

    The novel, not as a reproach, but solely for information. Now the raised Aircobra is being restored on the basis of the Northern Fleet Naval Museum.
    The Pe-2 is being restored in Kazan as part of the Wings of Tatarstan project, and the men hope to restore it to flight condition. Tatar search engines all over the country work at the places where "pawns" fell and, in addition to helping local search engines, they also collect fragments and parts suitable for work on the machine.
    Yes, this business largely rests on enthusiasts, but this also allows us to hope for success.
    PS Personally, my dream, restored by the Security Council, as a machine that fought several wars and conflicts and bore the brunt of 1941, but alas, so far they are all unsuitable for restoration.
  • Dilettante grandfather
    Dilettante grandfather 19 October 2020 12: 14 New
    0
    Quote: 41st region
    I think the entire Far East thinks the same way. And also Siberia with the Urals

    (whispering): here. in the Urals, there is a museum ... In Verkhnyaya Pyshma ... Just don't tell anyone, okay? .. Let everyone think that we think so too ... winked
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 22 October 2020 13: 32 New
    0
    Such enthusiasts need state support from the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Culture, because this is patriotism in its purest form.