The first new-generation nuclear submarine Taigei (29SS) was launched in Japan

A new generation non-nuclear submarine Taigei (29SS) was launched in Japan. The ceremony took place on October 14, 2020 at the Kobe Mitsubishi Heavy Industries shipyard.

The JS Taigei (Big Whale) submarine SS 513 is the next generation lead submarine to replace the Soryu-class submarines. The new submarine retains the general shape of the Soryu submarine hull, but has a number of design changes. The Taigei submarine has a significantly reduced wheelhouse, which is expected to be "fitted" into the hull to reduce drag and improve noise performance. In addition, the "insides" of the submarine have undergone significant changes.

It is reported that the submarine has an improved snorkel system in order to reduce the signature, a new generation GAS, new sound-absorbing materials are used to reduce the submarine's signature. The submarine will receive a complex torpedo countermeasures (TCM), which throws false targets.

The main difference between the Taigei nuclear submarine and the previous generation Soryu is the rejection of the Stirling engine. Instead, new lithium-ion batteries are installed.

The standard displacement is about 3 thousand tons, the hull length is 84 meters, the width is 9,1 meters. Crew - 70 people. Other details have not yet been disclosed.

In total, the Japanese Navy intends to commission 7 submarines of this class. It is assumed that the head "Taigei" will be transferred the fleet in March 2022, two more submarines are under construction, there is no information about the laying of the rest.

The last submarine of the previous generation "Soryu", dubbed "Toryu" ("Fighting Dragon"), was launched on November 6, 2019.

Comments

[The leader of the Redskins]

Without accurate data, there is not much to comment on.
Outwardly - a submarine, like a submarine, but the fact that the prudent and hardworking Japanese will screw up and do worse than it was hard to believe.

[yehat2]

Judging by the description, the Japanese took a step back - this is a more conservative boat with a number of minor improvements

[Livonetc]

But what does it mean?
"The main difference between the Taigei submarine and the previous generation Soryu is the rejection of the Stirling engine. Instead, new lithium-ion batteries are installed."
Is one entirely on batteries?
What kind of charging generator set is there?

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Livonetc

is there a generator set for recharging?

Present, where does it go.
Conventional traditional diesel.
Refused only from "air-independent" styling. The capacity of the new batteries covers its power.

[K-612-O]

And for one, it increases the fire and explosion hazard. It's still not a good idea to stick lithium batteries on a submarine with a crew.

[Antidote]

Some kind of stereotype after the Samsung? LiFePO4 is quite safe.

[ZEMCH]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Refused only from "air-independent" styling. The capacity of the new batteries covers its power.

Stirling was abandoned due to low speed, lithium batteries give normal power to the propellers

[yehat2]

the stirling engine was for underwater driving, instead of it they returned to the battery-powered electric motor. And the main propulsion system has not changed. As I understand it, 4 diesels. There were lead-acid batteries on the litter. there was no need to support the engine with them.
And the new one will be equipped with lithium-ion, they are much more powerful and more expensive, but at the same time more capricious.
Those. the boat will become very similar to the submarine at the beginning of the Second World War, adjusted for technology.
It is written in the article that the only novelty is the presence of baits. Americans have had this for 20-30 years. The fact that 70 people will serve on the submarine says that technologically the boat will be lower than the new German types 212 and 214. The 214 type, similar in size, has a crew of 27 people.
So yes, I say, the Japanese have a reliable, new, but very conservative boat going into series.
And this is expected - the country is still in a financial crisis and cannot adequately invest.

[Alex777]

So yes, I say, the Japanese have a reliable, new, but very conservative boat going into series.

Not this way.

What makes the Japanese submarine Oryu rank among the fifth generation boats? The ability not only to be under water for a long time without surfacing, as submarines with VNEU do, but also to move under water for a long time at a high speed of about 20 knots. Such potential is provided by lithium-ion accumulators (LIB) of high energy intensity installed on Oryu instead of lead batteries and VNEU.

Retired Vice Admiral Masao Kobayashi, former commander of the submarine forces of the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Forces, said the use of lithium-ion batteries "should dramatically change the way non-nuclear submarines operate." As some calculations show, the theoretical submarine range of a submarine with a displacement of 1500-1800 tons using LIA is 16-000 miles at 18 knots, and 000 miles on the move at 8-22 knots. Of course, such calculations, untested by practice, should be treated with sufficient caution. But the indisputable quality of the fifth generation submarine will be high underwater speed when using lithium-ion batteries and a significant cruising range at this speed.

When LIB was introduced on Soryu-type submarines, their design had to be seriously reworked to maintain ballasting and stability, since lithium-ion batteries are noticeably lighter than lead-acid ones. Some of the weight "went away" after the removal of the Stirling engines. In fact, the entire electrical system of the submarines had to be radically altered, including the installation of more powerful diesel generators for recharging. The snorkels had to be redesigned to increase air supply and exhaust as the battery charging rate became faster.

All this led to an increase in the cost of submarines. If the construction of “a conventional Soryu-type submarine cost $ 454 million, then the creation of Oryu will already cost $ 566 million. But all the same, according to foreign experts, the increase in costs will not outweigh the new quality of the LIB-equipped submarine.

[yehat2]

but also move under water for a long time at a high speed of about 20 knots

long is how much?
and I want to emphasize that the speed is not only battery dependent.
Finally, if you are in the know, this type of battery requires strict adherence to the rules of charging and discharging, otherwise the battery will degrade quickly. And this is not realistic for a combat ship.
Those. the boat is on fire, but what will happen to it in a year or two?
Well, about 18 thousand miles under water - it's just nonsense.

[Alex777]

This is the sources write. Not me. Therefore, I quote.
The fact that the boat is very different from the previous ones - 100%
EMNIP has a 400 V on-board network so that new batteries can be properly charged. Too lazy to look for links.
If you are interested in the details, you will find it yourself.

Those. the boat is on fire, but what will happen to it in a year or two?
Well, about 18 thousand miles under water - it's just nonsense.

Instead of arguing, read more about these boats.
https://oborona.ru/includes/periodics/navy/2016/0523/204418524/detail.shtml
https://vpk.name/news/382867_pervaya_v_mire_podvodnaya_lodka_na_litii-ionnyh_batareyah_vvedena_v_stroi.html

[yehat2]

And what have the boats? I'm talking about the battery.
400 V is certainly better than 12, but hardly radically better than it was.
In addition, I personally talked with the guys who worked at the Mitsubishi shipyard.
maybe completely new capacitors of my design will already be tested on this boat.

[Alex777]

maybe completely new capacitors of my design will already be tested on this boat.

Do not forget to share your achievements with the RF Ministry of Defense.

[yehat2]

it makes no sense. I gave the Japanese only theory and calculations in exchange for carrying out all the work on the creation, testing in a very short time and, let's say, a couple more obligations. I still hope for a peaceful energy revolution and do what I can. Ours will not even start such work and will still be punished for such an initiative.

[yehat2]

What handsome guy even for questions without statements will minus me?

[ZEMCH]

Quote: yehat2

long is how much?

2000 miles at this speed, well, according to the formula for calculating the speed of 100 hours at 20 knots speed

[yehat2]

I am sure that at 20 nodes the batteries will be good enough if the hours are 12-15. Akum's current must be large. And in such conditions, the battery charge is not spent linearly, but several times faster.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Livonetc

What kind of charging generator set is there?

We read carefully:

It is reported that the submarine has an improved system snorkels in order to reduce the signature

means diesel.

[YOUR]

This is a submarine with anaerobic engines. They abandoned the Stirling engine, installed new lithium-ion batteries, this is not even a step forward, a leap. A boat without surfacing can be under water from 30 to 90 days. Unfortunately, we have stopped the development of such submarines and it seems like they have completely covered up research on this topic.
And the Japanese received a shock non-nuclear submarine with the characteristics of a nuclear submarine.

[yehat2]

I think the Japanese abandoned the introduction of new engines due to personnel problems. It is very difficult to find those who go to serve in the submarine fleet and whip in the device of the stirling engine. It is even more difficult to find those who will improve it. The Japanese school teaches how to live according to the methodology.

[Glory1974]

This is a submarine with anaerobic engines. Gave up the Stirling engine

Do you mean an electric motor by an anaerobic motor?
Then what's the jump? Since the First World War, there are such boats.

[yehat2]

Well, firstly, they are not so much anymore - the efficiency of the mover has almost doubled,
in addition, lithium-ion, in comparison with PMV batteries, is 5-7 times more capacious and better gives off peak currents, which also saves charge.
Although the technology is very similar - a mechanic 100 years ago will find little new

[Saxahorse]

Quote: glory1974

Do you mean an electric motor by an anaerobic motor?
Then what's the jump? Since the First World War, there are such boats.

2000 miles at 20 knots is a serious claim.

[YOUR]

Anaerobic - air-independent.
It is known that the combat effectiveness of diesel submarines is to a certain extent depreciated due to the need to periodically recharge batteries, which reduces the secrecy of their actions and increases the likelihood of detection. So, diesel submarines surface every day to recharge batteries, spend 2 ... 5 hours to recharge batteries. In addition, the limited energy reserves of diesel submarines do not allow their use in the Arctic regions covered with ice.
On anaerobic submarines, rechargeable batteries are recharged without surfacing.
I understand that a person cannot know everything, but you were blocked in the search engines, you cannot see what an anaerobic engine is.
Why didn't it work for us, although there were such developments in the late 30s of the last century.

[Glory1974]

On anaerobic submarines, rechargeable batteries are recharged without surfacing.

This is the question. If we abandoned the Stirling engine, which is air-independent, then we installed an electric motor, which is not a jump forward, but a step back. Therefore, the boat is without an anaerobic engine.

[rocket757]

Quote: YOUR

This is a PL with anaerobic motors

Where is that written?
Diesel for charging, powerful batteries, nothing else is described. Classic.

[yehat2]

maybe a Ukrainian-type engine with pipes to the cow's ass?
then we will explain the large crew of 70 dugs.

[YOUR]

And what is the search engine for?
It's hard to see what they write besides this article. What exactly is written about the Soryu submarine series, about the new project 29SS created on the basis of Soryu.

[rocket757]

Anything can be. This article does not say this ...
Write an article, a note, then there will be something to speculate about.

[Piramidon]

Quote: YOUR

This is a submarine with anaerobic engines.

If so, why would she need snorkels?

It is reported that the submarine is installed atbetter snorkel system

As I understand it, anaerobic, these are air-independent engines, and snorkels serve just to supply air to diesel engines.

[Oleg Bykov]

Quite right, this is, roughly generalizing, the very Stirling that the Japanese rejected. Apparently, lithium batteries surpassed it in terms of balance. But unlikely to the declared autonomy. Perhaps, nevertheless, this means autonomy in terms of fuel + charged before the release of LIB. And in terms of operational characteristics, LIA is not a cake yet. The relatively large crew is interesting.

[yehat2]

the Stirling engine has an unstable efficiency. If suddenly the underwater speed drops at times, hell knows why, few people will like it.

[YOUR]

I have no idea.

[Thrifty]

The case when the toad is strangling, because we began to lag behind in this problem, which is sick for us, even more!

[rocket757]

Lagging is a relative period.
The main thing is not that we have an enemy who can be scared off by boats circling around their bases.
Although there will always be work for them, I guess.

[Alex777]

A submarine with the possibility of a long submerged course at 20 knots is an ASW dream in the first place.

[rocket757]

There are pluses and such boats, in the form of the fact that the same small heat footprint, other advantages, BUT, there are a few more disadvantages, so that this class of boats is no longer considered strategic, which have a place in the ocean!
You can certainly recall the experience of previous wars, diesel people went out into the ocean !!! But in light of how much the capabilities of anti-aircraft missile weapons have increased, their area of ​​operation will be limited to inland seas and near their bases.
This is how it is now and everyone has to reckon with it.

[ZEMCH]

Quote: Thrifty

The case when the toad is strangling, because we began to lag behind in this problem, which is sick for us, even more!

So they switched to the classical scheme, where did they lag behind? The boats are essentially "lighters", as the fleet called the avenue 615 (637), (project VNEPL 1959 !!!) this is what we have in the school:
M-361, completed as a complex laboratory of project 637, continues to be formally in service and used for its intended purpose as a training room in the closed territory of the Naval Engineering Institute in the city of Pushkin.
Lithium batteries are highly explosive when in contact with oxygen, i.e. any degermization and fire under water

[credo]

A kind of sweet, peaceful country called Japan.
And she apparently needs submarines for underwater research of the endless world ocean.

[Asad]

Study the whales!

[Insurgent]

Quote: ASAD

Study the whales!

Well, Japan did not sign an agreement to ban hunting these mammals, continuing to slaughter them. "for research purposes"...

And if someone "in scientific"(naturally ) to arrange a hunt for "Taigei" (JS Taigei - "Big whale")?

[yehat2]

only self-defense forces exist officially in Japan, you can say the local police
the submarine is needed, obviously, to deal with underwater rowdy.

[yfast]

So is this a defensive weapon?

[The eye of the crying]

As well as, for example, "Varshavyanka".

[Jacket in stock]

But I’m interested.
If in our "Varshavyankas" we replace their batteries with something like Japanese, how much will their autonomy increase?

[Sergey Sfiedu]

These batteries are wildly flammable. So far, it seems, we do not get safe ones, so there is nothing to install.

[Fregate]

NNS - Non-Nuclear Nuclear Submarine?)

[Orange bigg]

Quote: Fregate

NNS - Non-Nuclear Nuclear Submarine?)

Not a Nuclear Submarine.

[yehat2]

this is a boat heading towards the enemy)))
weapons - the weight of your own carcass)))

[Orange bigg]

I look at the Japanese with a wit that everything is in order.

[yehat2]

just a sumo lover in the high command wormed

[Alien From]

The case when you do not wish anything good to the Yapam.

[Orange bigg]

Want to close the production of Sony Xperia finally.

[lopuhan2006]

Another headache for Vilyuchinsk and B.Kamnya.

[yehat2]

Quote: YOUR

installed new lithium-ion batteries, this is not even a step forward, a jump

there were boats with silver batteries. So lithium-ion is not the ceiling of what was put into operation.

[yehat2]

Quote: YOUR

new lithium-ion batteries, this is not even a step forward, a jump. A boat without surfacing can be under water from 30 to 90 days.

Believe it or not, a boat without engines and batteries can lie under water for 100 years.
so these batteries suck))) Stop talking nonsense! Do you have any idea what 3 months is for a battery without recharging ???

[Flurry]

To date, this is the most advanced type of power plant for DPL - without intermediate links in the form of turbines, stirlings, liquid oxygen and other crap. But our Navy is following its own path, the mind that cannot be understood. As a result, no reforming, no turbines, nothing ...
The transition to accumulators is really a leap, without any crutches and VNEU props. And the question is not at all about the absence of specialists for the stirling service in Japan, this should be clear.

[Oleg Bykov]

Quote: Rafale

To date, this is the most advanced type of power plant for DPL - without intermediate links in the form of turbines, stirlings, liquid oxygen and other crap.

- just a different type of batteries and an increase in their number / capacity due to the gain in weight / volume occupied. No fundamental advancement is visible.

[Split]

Taigei? I don't know Japanese, but I know Russian ... Thai gay! Whatever you call it, it will float ... to a large box - a large torpedo in the stern

[iouris]

Atomic - Non-nuclear - Non-nuclear ... Evolution, however!

[petrol cutter]

Forgive God. How many acronyms are divorced ...
A submarine / diesel-electric submarine / submarine with VNEU! ... This is just a diesel engine?