Military Review

Consequences of the war between Azerbaijan and Armenia: a variant of a negative scenario for the Russian military-industrial complex

232

The war between Armenia and Azerbaijan continues.


От редакции:


As in any process, there can be several scenarios. In this case, from the loss of some of the interest in Russian weapons on the part of world importers to the acquisition of new opportunities and sales markets by Russia. In this story, the author presents his own opinion about a purely negative scenario for the Russian military-industrial complex. The material is published in the section "News"for technical reasons.

Main material


Russia theoretically should not suffer in any outcome of this military clash. But there is one point in this whole stories, which can deal such a blow to the interests of the Russian Federation that the damage would be even greater than if Russia directly fought on one of the sides. I'm not talking here about the loss of life. I mean our military-industrial complex, more precisely, its products, or, more precisely, the prospects for the export of Russian military technology and equipment. What are we talking about?

It is no secret that the best advertising of weapons is not exhibitions and forums, and not even war games like Tank Biathlon, where our Tanks consistently the fastest and most accurate. Everyone remembers the conflict over the Falklands, when the hit of the Exocet anti-ship missile system and the sinking of ships by it immediately sharply increased the demand for it around the world.

The losses of the parties are already calculated only on the basis of open data. Basically, on videos published on the network. And even to a non-specialist and generally not a military person it is completely clear on whose side the advantage is at the moment. The ratio of losses is multiple in favor of Azerbaijan. In the sense that they have less. Judging by the pictures from the cameras of Azerbaijani UAVs, the destruction of Armenian equipment is similar to shooting the defenseless or shooting at targets in a shooting range.

And here the most important thing for Russia in this war is that there is, in essence, anti-PR for our military-industrial complex and the power of our weapons and equipment. In particular, the image of the main brands of our export and, in general, the defense industry, which has been created for decades by means of powerful public relations, is crumbling - electronic warfare stations, OTRK Tochka-U, tanks, Mi-24 helicopters, MLRS systems, including Smerch, other armored vehicles and artillery systems.



In general, everything is theoretically not in favor of Soviet (Russian) weapons. But the fact is that the Soviet (Russian) armament of the Armenian side is often destroyed by the Soviet (Russian) armament of the Azeri side. And here the question already arises, is everything so bad for the Russian defense industry?

But equipment in Karabakh is also destroyed by foreign-made weapons. For example, Turkish and Israeli. And this is already a hole in the side of our military industry - our drones, primarily drums, are absent from the theater of operations. They just don't exist.

But, as you know, the market, like nature, abhors a vacuum. And if it disappeared somewhere, it arrived somewhere. So it has arrived and is arriving from Turkey and Israel. It seems that both countries have decided, already having a serious export potential of their weapons, to seize the moment to demonstrate their high-precision systems weapons and military equipment. For in Syria, they do not want to face us directly, but here on the sly it is possible.

That is what the S-300 air defense systems cost with their insufficiently skillful operation. A strong impression was made by the fact that the Armenian side used Tochka-U missiles, two of which, at least according to the Azeri side, failed to fire their warheads. The value of the tanks was shown by the footage of their mass destruction by Turkish and Israeli UAVs, patrolling ammunition and the "Spike" ATGM. Old air defense systems such as "OSA AKM" and "Strela-10" are of little interest to buyers, but the owners of these systems can apply for their modernization. And, I think, not to us. As well as the modernization of tanks and new anti-tank missile systems and high-precision artillery.

It is clear that the point is also in the operators of certain weapons, in the conditions of their storage, types of camouflage and tactics of use, in the novelty of weapons, in the end.

If everything goes according to a negative scenario, then the Russian military-industrial complex will have to restore its reputation, forcing events. On the other hand, you can look at the situation from a different angle: what is happening in Karabakh once again proves that no self-respecting state in the world can do without modernizing its defense potential, without buying weapons. And Azerbaijan and Armenia are among those. And here there may already be a new chance for the Russian military-industrial complex.
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  1. NEXUS
    NEXUS 14 October 2020 16: 32 New
    14
    As in any process, there can be several scenarios. In this case, from the loss of some of the interest in Russian weapons on the part of world importers to the acquisition of new opportunities and sales markets by Russia.

    The interest of an ordinary citizen of the Russian Federation in this matter may be one - jobs for a specific number of Russians. That's all the interest.
    1. Livonetc
      Livonetc 14 October 2020 16: 45 New
      -5
      What could be the damage to the Russian military-industrial complex.
      Additional demand only.
      So jobs are provided.
      Unless we cannot provide the proper brains for the beating idiots.
      We don't have such technology.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 14 October 2020 17: 11 New
        17
        And it’s too bad that no. I mean that we have no influence on the processes in the countries of the former Soviet republics. There are structures, people pretend to work, get a good salary. Only at the exit zilch.
        1. genisis
          genisis 14 October 2020 21: 01 New
          -12 qualifying.
          Comments are often posted on the site, in which Armenians are called "sorosets". I propose to take a look at these people, 99% of whom have no idea who Soros is.
          https://twitter.com/301_ad/status/1316410769194483713?s=21
          1. genisis
            genisis 15 October 2020 02: 19 New
            -4
            Apparently, not everyone was able to see, but I found an opportunity
          2. Glory1974
            Glory1974 15 October 2020 09: 57 New
            +9
            Comments are often posted on the site, in which Armenians are called "sorosets".

            Soros call Pashinyan and the company, who came to power, refused to negotiate with Azerbaijan and walked the streets with anti-Russian posters.
            1. genisis
              genisis 15 October 2020 11: 23 New
              +4
              Armenians of Artsakh did not walk the streets with posters. It is generally not customary for them to walk aimlessly through the streets. Need to work. The cows are not milked, the grass is not mowed, the wheat is not planted, when can you walk the streets here?
              And Azerbaijan is fighting with them now.
              In the video, for example, a guy is asked who he works. He replies that he is a soldier. He is asked again what he does at normal times. He is a geography teacher from a small village not far from their positions. Therefore, you can simply say "Soros" are themselves to blame, but in reality ordinary men are fighting for the lives of their children and parents, for the opportunity to live and work.
      2. Pereira
        Pereira 14 October 2020 17: 12 New
        12
        Not certainly in that way.
        Rather, we can talk about a drop in demand for ground vehicles in favor of attack drones.
        I read that the Israeli Nagor costs about 100 thousand dollars, which is cheaper than even an old tank.
        Of course, you can't capture territory with kamikaze drones. But to destroy tanks, artillery, air defense is quite simple. And why buy them then?
        How everything will turn further, we can only guess for now.
        But Israel is already with a big gesheft.
        1. Lesorub
          Lesorub 14 October 2020 17: 26 New
          39
          Quote: Pereira
          I read that the Israeli Nagor costs about 100 thousand dollars, which is cheaper than even an old tank.

          You can complain about Israel and their kamikaze drones, Spike ATGMs, Turkish UAVs - but who has been stopping Russia all this time from producing similar systems and also successfully selling and putting them into service ?!
          1. Pereira
            Pereira 14 October 2020 17: 44 New
            +3
            What does the complaint have to do with it? I am describing the current situation.
          2. lucul
            lucul 14 October 2020 17: 47 New
            -22 qualifying.
            You can complain about Israel and their kamikaze drones, Spike ATGMs, Turkish UAVs - but who has been stopping Russia all this time from producing similar systems and also successfully selling and putting them into service ?!

            All these UAVs, both Israeli and Turkish, are not effective against our Khmeimim base in Syria. We have already tried everything that is possible, with attacks on the base - there is no result.
            That's all you need to know about UAV propaganda.
            1. SSR
              SSR 14 October 2020 18: 25 New
              15
              Quote: lucul
              We have already tried everything that is possible, with attacks on the base - there is no result.
              That's all you need to know about UAV propaganda.

              Just for some reason, everyone "forgets" that no one supplied weapons to the NGO, all the old stuff that was, they used it, the Armenian question is also not a question, they have no money, there are no normal neighbors either ...
            2. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 14 October 2020 19: 18 New
              18
              ??
              Quote: lucul

              All these UAVs, both Israeli and Turkish, are not effective against our Khmeimim base in Syria. We have already tried everything that is possible, with attacks on the base - there is no result.
              That's all you need to know about UAV propaganda.

              There were handicraft amateur crafts or civilian quadrocopters with aimed grenades, etc. Serial attack drones were not there
              1. SSR
                SSR 14 October 2020 22: 46 New
                -13 qualifying.
                Quote: Krasnodar
                or civilian quadcopters with aimed grenades, etc.

                Fuck, these are wonderful goals the size of your self-esteem, very easily spotted and knocked out by the Petriot system and from 1500. Tin, just tin.
                The Arabs are suckers, they did not know that the Patriot would shoot down everything that flies. Do not keep members of the forum for go, otov.
            3. RUSS
              RUSS 14 October 2020 20: 23 New
              10
              Quote: lucul
              All these UAVs, both Israeli and Turkish, are not effective against our Khmeimim base in Syria. We have already tried everything that is possible, with attacks on the base - there is no result.
              That's all you need to know about UAV propaganda.

              In Syria, our base was attacked by "makeshift" home-made drones.
            4. Terrible GMO
              Terrible GMO 14 October 2020 23: 20 New
              +8
              Quote: lucul
              All these UAVs, both Israeli and Turkish, are not effective against our Khmeimim base in Syria.

              Well, yes, Turkey and Israel will officially bomb the UAVs of the Russian military base with Russian servicemen with weapons of their production
              fool
            5. Dikson
              Dikson 15 October 2020 00: 42 New
              +8
              One base is not a front, not a region, and even more so not a country .. Moscow is also covered ..))) and the Voronezh mentioned not for the night? )) The results of this conflict will be sad for us in any case .. Barmaley will climb into Chechnya and Dagestan, and the next batch will be in Ukraine ... the Turks are already helping them ..
            6. Grits
              Grits 15 October 2020 06: 00 New
              +3
              Quote: lucul
              All these UAVs, both Israeli and Turkish, are not effective against our Khmeimim base in Syria.

              And what, the Haropes and Bayraktars also tried the Khmeimim base for a tooth?
            7. alex51217
              alex51217 15 October 2020 06: 35 New
              +6
              In Khmeimim, there are several air defense systems for each aircraft. In a real war, such a concentration of air defense cannot be created.
            8. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 15 October 2020 07: 34 New
              11
              Quote: lucul

              All these UAVs, both Israeli and Turkish, are not effective against our Khmeimim base in Syria. We have already tried everything that is possible, with attacks on the base - there is no result.
              That's all you need to know about UAV propaganda.
              Of course, Khmeimim base has a good air defense system, which has been proven more than once, but Israeli and Turkish UAVs have never been used to attack it.
          3. credo
            credo 14 October 2020 18: 02 New
            -9
            Quote: Lesorub
            Quote: Pereira
            I read that the Israeli Nagor costs about 100 thousand dollars, which is cheaper than even an old tank.

            You can complain about Israel and their kamikaze drones, Spike ATGMs, Turkish UAVs - but who has been stopping Russia all this time from producing similar systems and also successfully selling and putting them into service ?!

            I don’t understand at all how the author of the article can draw far-reaching conclusions based on the unknown where the video was filmed.
            Yes, the Internet is full of beautifully shot hits on certain objects, but no one can say who, where filmed it and whose shell hit what, whether the target was real, and not a fake, etc. etc.
            So, before repeating the praise of Turkish and Israeli weapons from the lips of the Azerbaijani media, the author should have delayed a little with conclusions, while as I understand he draws his information from the media and the Internet, and not from the fields of military operations.
            As for modern weapons in general, only qualified and well-trained fighters can skillfully use them, so if someone somewhere does not cope with the use of modern weapons on the battlefields, then this is primarily the fault of the senior command personnel, and not weapons as such.
            1. Dikson
              Dikson 15 October 2020 00: 48 New
              -3
              Tell me, is a UAV a modern weapon in general? Is it no worse than the old S-300 air defense system?
              then some smart ones are at war, and the second -? Here they remember about camouflage nets and running around in formation .. these arguments lagged behind reality .. thermal imagers and night vision devices, jamming and tracking stations ... target recognition and guidance systems .. that's what is real, not the doctrine of nuclear retaliation ..
          4. Alex Justice
            Alex Justice 15 October 2020 09: 50 New
            +1
            but who was stopping Russia all this time from producing similar systems and also successfully selling and putting into service ?!

            Why don't Armenia and Azerbaijan use Russian UAVs? What were the Russian analysts doing when they saw the work of the UAV in Syria?
            So it remains for Russia to show some kind of explosions and dust in the distance and then assert that another pinpoint strike has been made.
            1. Isim soyad
              Isim soyad 15 October 2020 13: 13 New
              +1
              To use something, it must be, but they are not in the Russian Federation. And even if they will be there tomorrow, until they are brought into full operation in real battles, years will pass. By that time, Israel and Turkey will be in the new generation, while the Russian Federation is in the old one.
              1. zwlad
                zwlad 15 October 2020 21: 20 New
                +1
                How not? Here robots from a neighboring country recently claimed about 120 !!! Downed Russian-made UAVs.
        2. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 17: 44 New
          -10 qualifying.
          Quote: Pereira
          I read that the Israeli Nagor costs about 100 thousand dollars, which is cheaper than even an old tank.
          Of course, you can't capture territory with kamikaze drones. But to destroy tanks, artillery, air defense is quite simple.

          It's all bullshit. We have nuclear weapons ... How to hit ...
          1. Pereira
            Pereira 14 October 2020 17: 45 New
            +7
            Last time they did it, nobody was convinced.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 17: 49 New
              -5
              Quote: Pereira
              Last time they did it, nobody was convinced.

              And we will also use the daddy bomb ... And how in Chechnya ... hikh ... we will bomb ... In the toilet ...
            2. Old tanker
              Old tanker 15 October 2020 07: 10 New
              +1
              And when did we hit nuclear weapons? Yes, and Hiroshima from Nagasaki oh, how convinced everyone!
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 15 October 2020 10: 04 New
                +4
                Quote: Old Tankman
                And when did we hit nuclear weapons? Yes, and Hiroshima from Nagasaki oh, how convinced everyone!

                Yes, I'm joking. Here, many look at nuclear weapons as a panacea for all ills. Well, it's just childhood fun.
            3. zwlad
              zwlad 15 October 2020 21: 23 New
              0
              As far as I remember, when they hit with a thermonuclear bomb the last time, the Yankees did such a thing that they rushed to conclude a treaty banning nuclear weapons tests.
          2. sh3roman
            sh3roman 15 October 2020 09: 55 New
            +2
            Apparently in Voronezh !!!
        3. New Year day
          New Year day 14 October 2020 18: 09 New
          +5
          Quote: Pereira
          to destroy tanks, artillery, air defense is quite simple.

          Moreover, as in a dash
        4. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 15 October 2020 08: 51 New
          +2
          For the UAV and artillery, someone must attack.
      3. Terenin
        Terenin 14 October 2020 18: 13 New
        +4
        Quote: Livonetc
        Unless we cannot provide the proper brains for the beating idiots.

        So even according to their "skillful" management of Russian (Soviet) weapons, our military-industrial complex was immediately assigned a negative scenario crying
      4. kapitan92
        kapitan92 14 October 2020 21: 44 New
        +1
        Quote: Livonetc
        What could be the damage to the Russian military-industrial complex.

        Yes, there is no damage!
        The author of the article would also compare Israel's potentials in the war with Lebanon. laughing
        Armenia is beggars, in comparison with Azerbaijan, it is enough to compare the availability of natural resources, GDP, number of population, etc.
        And what are the NKR armed units ???
        How can such things be compared? hi
      5. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 15 October 2020 06: 18 New
        +5
        Quote: Livonetc
        What could be the damage to the Russian military-industrial complex.
        Additional demand only.
        So jobs are provided.
        Unless we cannot provide the proper brains for the beating idiots.
        We don't have such technology.

        The fact that instead of tanks and air defense systems from us, India, for example, will buy drones from Israel
    2. Thrifty
      Thrifty 14 October 2020 17: 47 New
      +6
      The author, after reading your one-sided article, need to cry? First of all, the bad or complete absence of air defense in Nagorno-Karabakh is striking, because the old, unmodernized "Wasps" are ceremonial toys, not military equipment. Also, a nasty disguise of technology, or its complete absence. Technique, like targets in a shooting range, stands in an open area, good weapons are used ineptly, it is enough to recall the "Replicant", which worked in a continuous mode, literally shouted "here I am, destroy me!" we need to move with not only development, but also with its mass release. And, as for shock drones, or rather, their absence from Russia in service, how much more thunder should thunder over our heads? ??
    3. max702
      max702 16 October 2020 09: 17 New
      0
      To resist UAVs, you need good air defense, and this is very difficult and very expensive .. For this and such a defeat .. As for the gadfly of Russian-made UAVs, this topic was successfully loved both from not understanding the tactical niche and from the lack of a material base for building them .. In the mind, even at the beginning of the DB in Syria, it was said about this, because driving Barmaley drones is much cheaper than bombing even with cast iron with the help of the Aerospace Forces, but we do not have such UAVs and apparently due to "lack of solidity" our military is not interested, now we are reaping the benefits .. Regarding the counteraction to these, it became clear back in Syria that the electronic warfare does not work somehow and only in the old fashioned missiles of air defense systems, which again, again, is very expensive and difficult .. What to do? Raise at least the "Model Aircraft" file and start doing something with the help of a new element base, we need extremely cheap drones in stock quantities just for such conflicts .. It reminds VO's beloved cow about the confrontation between AUG and anti-ship missiles .. And gives up I think that in this case it will be a surprise for flotophiles too ..
  2. paul3390
    paul3390 14 October 2020 16: 35 New
    23
    The technology in the hands of a savage is a piece of metal .. Not only is the weaponry half a century old, but the Armenians also use it damn well .. But of course the bad Russian weapon is to blame ..
    1. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 14 October 2020 16: 41 New
      16
      The effectiveness of weapons, not least depends on the qualifications of the soldiers. If the zoldatik's little hands are clumsy, don't let him - there will be no sense. Advertising of Turkish and Israeli UAVs is not yet a sign of their high efficiency. I would like to see how they will act against modern air defense, with competent personnel.
      1. K-612-O
        K-612-O 14 October 2020 16: 51 New
        13
        Even with the presence of semi-literate air defense personnel, there was a bayraktaropad in Syria, after which they abruptly ceased to be used. Here with barrage ammunition is worse. There are only Shilki, Tunguska, Pantsiri, Derivation, ZPU.
      2. ioan-e
        ioan-e 14 October 2020 16: 58 New
        +5
        Quote: TermNachTER
        Advertising of Turkish and Israeli UAVs is not yet a sign of their high efficiency. I would like to see how they will act against modern air defense, with competent personnel.

        It is known how, when Buki and Pantsiri were brought up to Idlib in Syria, these vaunted Bayraktars were instantly swept away from the sky.
        1. Nychego
          Nychego 14 October 2020 17: 43 New
          +8
          Quote: ioan-e
          It is known how, when Buki and Pantsiri were pulled up in Syria in Idlib, these vaunted Bayraktars instantly brushed away from the sky

          https://www.vpk-news.ru/articles/57318
          Read it. A very useful article, just like in the old VO.
          There, among many other wonderful ones, there is a valuable thought: if the defense is complex, echeloned, then the fight between Russian air defense and Turkish UAVs is going on with varying success, and if the focus is on, ours are not dancing, of which Armenia is another fresh example (the article itself of June 10) ...
          1. ioan-e
            ioan-e 14 October 2020 18: 28 New
            -7
            Quote: Nychego
            Quote: ioan-e
            It is known how, when Buki and Pantsiri were pulled up in Syria in Idlib, these vaunted Bayraktars instantly brushed away from the sky

            if the defense is complex, echeloned, then the fight between Russian air defense and Turkish UAVs is proceeding with varying success, and if the focus is on the focus, ours do not dance

            Yours definitely do not dance! And our, Russian air defense as a party to the conflict, has not really fought with the Turks yet, one-time incidents do not count! As Syria has shown, at least 40 tomahawks were extinguished, and according to some sources 76, these are the results when OURS are fighting according to the charter. I am not an expert in the field of radar, but for some reason I think that a tomahawk is no simpler target than a bayraktar, especially since the first one spreads above the ground, and the second flies 7,5 km.
            1. Nychego
              Nychego 14 October 2020 19: 20 New
              24
              Quote: ioan-e
              Yours definitely do not dance!

              In fact, I am from the Urals and have never crossed the borders of Russia or the territories it currently controls, served in the Soviet army and did not have any citizenship, except for the citizenship of the USSR, and then did not have Russian citizenship.
              Do not try to privatize the right to call Russia your own country solely on the grounds that you loyally hate those who are told to hate by the current rulers. These directions are variable, as evidenced by my personal life experience.
              1. ioan-e
                ioan-e 15 October 2020 07: 20 New
                -4
                Quote: Nychego
                Quote: ioan-e
                Yours definitely do not dance!

                I'm actually from the Urals
                Do not try to privatize the right to call Russia your own country solely on the grounds that you loyally hate those who are told to hate by the current rulers.

                And you write your posts so that it is clear who you are, where you are from and what your position in life is. I do not privatize anything and I do not hate anyone, especially on command. hi
          2. Saxahorse
            Saxahorse 14 October 2020 22: 48 New
            +7
            Quote: Nychego
            There, among many other wonderful ones, there is a valuable thought: if the defense is complex, echeloned, then the fight between Russian air defense and Turkish UAVs goes on with varying success, and if the focus is on the focus, ours do not dance,

            Against echeloned air defense, a serious enemy will attack in echelons as expected. For example, we have never seen how our Shell (or S-300) will work against AGM-88 HARM, for example, or other Shrike descendants. But anti-radar missiles should go in the correct first echelon, and only then UAVs and loitering ammunition.
          3. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 15 October 2020 06: 22 New
            +3
            Quote: Nychego
            Quote: ioan-e
            It is known how, when Buki and Pantsiri were pulled up in Syria in Idlib, these vaunted Bayraktars instantly brushed away from the sky

            https://www.vpk-news.ru/articles/57318
            Read it. A very useful article, just like in the old VO.
            There, among many other wonderful ones, there is a valuable thought: if the defense is complex, echeloned, then the fight between Russian air defense and Turkish UAVs is going on with varying success, and if the focus is on, ours are not dancing, of which Armenia is another fresh example (the article itself of June 10) ...

            Variable success, you know, too, not very well. For a UAV is a piece of iron and an air defense system is a dozen people
          4. BastaKarapuzik And
            BastaKarapuzik And 17 October 2020 08: 08 New
            0
            The attacker has the advantage of choosing the place and time of the strike.
            In this sense, defending is more difficult than attacking. If the warring parties change places, then the difficulties in defense will be experienced by others.
            Air supremacy during the Second World War decided a lot.
      3. Pereira
        Pereira 14 October 2020 17: 14 New
        +2
        I would like to see how they will act against modern air defense, with competent personnel.

        Against whom are you expecting? In Syria, they saw the same thing. Against Greece?
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 18: 06 New
          0
          I just listened to a song
          "Ooooh, everything will happen again .... The top is spinning ...
      4. Old tanker
        Old tanker 15 October 2020 07: 16 New
        -3
        Since in Idlib. Where these Turkish UAVs piled up a bunch. And not only with modern air defense systems. And the calculations were Syrian.
    2. Vol4ara
      Vol4ara 14 October 2020 16: 48 New
      20
      Quote: paul3390
      The technology in the hands of a savage is a piece of metal .. Not only is the weaponry half a century old, but the Armenians also use it damn well .. But of course the bad Russian weapon is to blame ..

      Listen to all the savages and curves, that's just how it has been recently, all our allies with our weapons are crooked savages, and all our opponents are super-developed civilizations with plasma guns, a strange coincidence, isn't it? Maybe the reason is something else, not?
      1. K-612-O
        K-612-O 14 October 2020 16: 56 New
        +9
        Well, look, in Syria, how many years they spent in order to make one combat-ready corps and two divisions, plus improve the training of air defense calculations, 3-4 years, and that is full of slovenliness. The quality of human material is of the utmost importance, as are the commanding officers, who, by the way, always suffer in all the mess and revolutions. Syria and Armenia are prime examples.
        1. Vol4ara
          Vol4ara 14 October 2020 17: 02 New
          +5
          Quote: K-612-O
          Well, look, in Syria, how many years they spent in order to make one combat-ready corps and two divisions, plus improve the training of air defense calculations, 3-4 years, and that is full of slovenliness. The quality of human material is of the utmost importance, as are the commanding officers, who, by the way, always suffer in all the mess and revolutions. Syria and Armenia are prime examples.

          So I say, in Syria they are stupid, but in Turkey and Azerbaijan they are geniuses. Those with weapons of the Russian Federation are stupid, and those with drones are not. Pure coincidence.
          Was it the same in Yugoslavia? It is not the domination of NATO aviation and shit air defense of Yugoslavia that is to blame, but the fact that the Serbs are savages, but the geniuses
          1. K-612-O
            K-612-O 14 October 2020 17: 07 New
            14
            Well, 38 NATO aircraft were shot down in Yugoslavia, this is their statistics, with the massive use of it and the suppression of radar and air defense positions. All the same, there is no need to compare the potential of NATO and the cut-off Yugoslavia. And then the gut was thin for a ground operation.
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 14 October 2020 17: 13 New
              +2
              And why a ground operation when, with insignificant losses, was rolled out of the sky?
              1. Obliterator
                Obliterator 14 October 2020 17: 43 New
                11
                Quote: BlackMokona
                And why a ground operation when, with insignificant losses, was rolled out of the sky?

                Just the Serbian army was not rolled out. The politicians were rolled out.
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 14 October 2020 20: 51 New
                  -1
                  The Serbian army could not do anything to interfere with the NATO army, that's all.
                  1. Obliterator
                    Obliterator 14 October 2020 21: 23 New
                    +3
                    Quote: BlackMokona
                    The Serbian army could not do anything to interfere with the NATO army, that's all.

                    After the bombing, it mostly survived, which means that something, and an easy walk in the event of a ground operation, NATO would not have to wait.
                    1. Blackmokona
                      Blackmokona 14 October 2020 21: 57 New
                      0
                      Survived and spit on it.
                      The economy is in ruins, and without grub they will not fight for a long time.
                2. Pilat2009
                  Pilat2009 15 October 2020 06: 25 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Obliterator
                  Quote: BlackMokona
                  And why a ground operation when, with insignificant losses, was rolled out of the sky?

                  Just the Serbian army was not rolled out. The politicians were rolled out.

                  Infrastructure rolled out - power plants, factories, hospitals - the army was unable to prevent
            2. Vol4ara
              Vol4ara 14 October 2020 17: 17 New
              +4
              Quote: K-612-O
              Well, 38 NATO aircraft were shot down in Yugoslavia, this is their statistics, with the massive use of it and the suppression of radar and air defense positions. All the same, there is no need to compare the potential of NATO and the cut-off Yugoslavia. And then the gut was thin for a ground operation.

              They would grind it like a meat grinder if necessary, together with a ground operation. A question of expediency. Well, even the representatives of Yugoslavia themselves did not get angry how much they shot down, some say 190, others 60. And NATO recognizes 1 shot down f16s and 1 f117
              1. K-612-O
                K-612-O 14 October 2020 17: 57 New
                0
                Officially recognized losses of 38 aircraft, the bulk of Tornadoes and Typhoons, the Americans in the air defense zone, basically did not climb and ironed civilian targets.
                1. Nychego
                  Nychego 14 October 2020 18: 03 New
                  +4
                  Quote: K-612-O
                  Officially recognized losses of 38 aircraft, the bulk of Tornadoes and Typhoons,

                  Recognized by NATO? It will not be difficult for you to provide a link to this confession, otherwise some kind of cognitive dissonance is outlined in me. I remember about 2 planes, but they tell me about 38 here.
            3. Nychego
              Nychego 14 October 2020 17: 51 New
              +2
              Quote: K-612-O
              Well, 38 NATO aircraft were shot down in Yugoslavia, this is their statistics, with the massive use of it and the suppression of radar and air defense positions. All the same, there is no need to compare the potential of NATO and the cut-off Yugoslavia.

              NATO did not have bayraktar in 1999, and the early oak UAVs fell down not the worst Yugov air defense system, if not in batches, then quite successfully.
              As for the aircraft, only two are recognized, not 38.
              And in the end, it was not NATO that was forced to lay siege to the horses, but the south had to tuck its tail and dump where it was ordered.
              1. Old tanker
                Old tanker 15 October 2020 07: 30 New
                +2
                Do not forget that NATO aircraft practically did not enter the Yugoslav air defense zone. But they fought quite successfully with various missiles. And they rolled out the infrastructure of Yugoslavia only because the outfit of these means significantly exceeded the air defense capabilities to defeat and counter them.
            4. The comment was deleted.
          2. 210ox
            210ox 14 October 2020 17: 16 New
            +4
            So maybe they, these savages ... Syrians, Egyptians, Hindus? And to supply weapons to geniuses from NATO?
          3. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 18: 11 New
            -1
            Quote: Vol4ara
            , but the fact that the Serbs are savages, but geniuses

            Yugoslavia was merged. The Serbs wanted us to occupy the entire area ...
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 14 October 2020 17: 49 New
          +7
          Quote: K-612-O
          Well, look, in Syria, how many years they spent in order to make one combat-ready corps and two divisions, plus improve the training of air defense calculations, 3-4 years, and that is full of slovenliness. The quality of human material is of the utmost importance, as are the commanding officers, who, by the way, always suffer in all the mess and revolutions. Syria and Armenia are prime examples.

          Armenians are not bad fighters - the fact that they have not prepared for modern war is another matter. The Jews had a chip like that in 1973. Despite the alarming calls from the use of SA air defense in Egypt in 1970, they rendered hypertrophied attention to aviation, scoring on artillery and the interaction of the combat arms. The result is heavy losses in tanks (30 percent of the Babies) and aircraft.
          1. Terenin
            Terenin 14 October 2020 18: 17 New
            +5
            Quote: Krasnodar
            Armenians are not bad fighters - the fact that they have not prepared for modern war is another matter

            Likewise, Pashinyan, for 2,5 years of his "wise" leadership, has made a considerable contribution to combat effectiveness.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 14 October 2020 18: 55 New
              +6
              Apparently, they have not prepared for a new war since the time of Medvedev's inauguration. Pashinyan stupidly quarreled Armenia with Russia. With what head he did it - it is not clear. Changed the dealer drastically?
      2. Kart
        Kart 14 October 2020 17: 04 New
        +5
        So what? The power is wrong?
        Armenia uses rather outdated types of weapons. There is nothing surprising in the losses (by the way, it is not known for certain what) - no.
        Even children and some fighters against the regime understand that Armenia does not have modern Russian missile defense systems. That it is the other way around, is an excellent opportunity for us to see what the effectiveness of such means 20-50 years ago against "unmanned" warfare is.
        1. Lesorub
          Lesorub 14 October 2020 17: 30 New
          +2
          Quote: Carte
          Armenia uses rather outdated types of weapons

          Armenia acquired the Torahs in 2019 - but most likely they are not participating in hostilities.
          1. syndicalist
            syndicalist 14 October 2020 18: 37 New
            -1
            The destruction of one Armenian TOP-M2KM was reported.
      3. 1976AG
        1976AG 14 October 2020 17: 06 New
        14
        Quote: Vol4ara
        Quote: paul3390
        The technology in the hands of a savage is a piece of metal .. Not only is the weaponry half a century old, but the Armenians also use it damn well .. But of course the bad Russian weapon is to blame ..

        Listen to all the savages and curves, that's just how it has been recently, all our allies with our weapons are crooked savages, and all our opponents are super-developed civilizations with plasma guns, a strange coincidence, isn't it? Maybe the reason is something else, not?

        If the enemy has air supremacy, then what does the quality of our tanks, MLRS, Points have to do with it? Did anyone say that they are capable of withstanding an air attack?
      4. paul3390
        paul3390 14 October 2020 17: 13 New
        +9
        Well, who is to blame for the fact that all the former brothers in mind voluntarily slipped to the level of the Papuans? And naturally - they want to be captured by more advanced countries. This has always been the case, since the times of Horus-Aha and Suppilluliums .. If you are weak, wait for your neighbors to visit .. And it is no less natural that we are enemies of these most advanced countries. For friends - they consider exclusively as dinner. To which Russia no longer agrees. Until at least ..
      5. Sergei Sovetkin
        14 October 2020 17: 44 New
        +3
        This thought also torments me for a long time. And not only in this war.
      6. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 14 October 2020 18: 14 New
        +5
        Quote: Vol4ara
        Listen to all the savages and curves, that's just how it has been recently, all our allies with our weapons are crooked savages, and all our opponents are super-developed civilizations with plasma guns, a strange coincidence, isn't it?

        These are the allies we inherited. On the BV, our allies, armed to the teeth with our weapons, have regularly poured out since the time of Gamal Abdel on all Nasser.
        As for Armenia ... if people for four years did not take into account the experience of the last war, is Russia really to blame for this? In 2016, in the same places from the Azerbaijani side, there were the same Harop UAVs and Spike ATGMs - just not on such a scale.
    3. ioan-e
      ioan-e 14 October 2020 16: 56 New
      +7
      Quote: paul3390
      The technology in the hands of a savage is a piece of metal .. Not only is the weaponry half a century old, but the Armenians also use it damn well .. But of course the bad Russian weapon is to blame ..

      I completely agree! Although I am not a military man, but only a reserve officer after the military department, even I was horrified, recalling lectures on tactics, from the fact that these "wars", knowing about drones, shied away like a herd, no disguise, no attempts to disperse on the ground. All in a heap near the ammunition boxes - an operator's dream! I remember the plot, trees and buildings were all around, and they crawled out in a crowd to the car to smoke.
  3. Observer2014
    Observer2014 14 October 2020 16: 35 New
    -2
    And here the most important thing for Russia in this war is that there is, in essence, anti-PR for our military-industrial complex
    Don't even worry about the word at all. I will not let the Russian military-industrial complex be deprived. Everything will be garlic! soldier If I criticize. I suggest. yes
  4. iouris
    iouris 14 October 2020 16: 39 New
    +5
    The military-industrial complex is lagging far behind in new directions. This, apparently, reflects the state of the fundamental and industrial sciences. The system is not built. "Making money", getting rich, today cannot be the goal. The goal is not defined. But it objectively exists - to survive.
    1. K-612-O
      K-612-O 14 October 2020 16: 45 New
      +6
      It is interesting to know how? If you do not control your sky, you can catch cast iron from corn workers
  5. K-612-O
    K-612-O 14 October 2020 16: 40 New
    11
    The author goes too far, Karabakh, like Armenia, lacks more or less adequate air defense, to combat UAVs, as practice shows, air defense missile systems and TORs are needed, and fighter cover. Artillery is often in position and does not move. Tanks and infantry by the Armenians are used separately and not agreed. The Azerbaijanis have the same problems, their tanks were flipped with ATGMs much more, they had to throw the 90s into battle. But the fact that a systematized organization of air defense is needed, at least an operational-tactical area, is a fact.
    And for the S-300, the Azerbaijani calculations for Elbrus, in principle, did not work badly.
    As they say, the game was equal, played two g ... On.
    And the Turkish leadership and airspace control ensured at least some success for the askers
    1. syndicalist
      syndicalist 14 October 2020 18: 43 New
      0
      Quote: K-612-O
      as practice shows, ZRPK and TORs are needed,

      Which ones? Azerbaijanis demonstrate video of how drones click like the nuts of the OSA, Pantsiri, Shilki, Torah, S-300 and a wide variety of electronic warfare systems. What else can be opposed to them? S-500?
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 14 October 2020 18: 52 New
        +1
        Armenia and Karabakh do not have a comprehensive and unified air defense system, so they are shot like in a shooting range.
        1. atalef
          atalef 14 October 2020 19: 27 New
          +4
          Quote: Vadim237
          Armenia and Karabakh have no integrated and unified air defense

          And who has it?
      2. Artemiy_2
        Artemiy_2 15 October 2020 09: 27 New
        +2
        Where did you see the Azeri videos with the destruction of shells and tori storyteller?
  6. Pshelts
    Pshelts 14 October 2020 16: 44 New
    -1
    Russian weapons do not need advertising ... After reading the article, the sediment remained, and the situation in the military-industrial complex begins to shake again, and so on.
    And the latest weapons are mainly tested in Syria.
    1. Letun
      Letun 14 October 2020 16: 59 New
      +8
      Quote: Pshelty
      And the latest weapons are mainly tested in Syria.

      On whom? On barmaley with Kalash? Well, the Su-57 bombed them thousands from 5 meters, what did it give?
      1. Sergei Sovetkin
        14 October 2020 17: 51 New
        10
        Yes, that's right! What tests are there in the absence of a ilny enemy and resistance to the single side ?! What are all these statements by our leaders about the insurmountable umbrella over Syria that our S-300-400 will provide? Many Israeli missiles and planes, "tomahawks" shot down? We sit like mice at the base and are afraid that something serious would not come. Il-20 was flunked by someone instead of F-16, so what?
        1. Alexander Seklitsky
          Alexander Seklitsky 14 October 2020 18: 55 New
          -4
          Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
          What are all these statements of our leaders about the irresistible umbrella over Syria that our S-300-400 will provide? Many Israeli missiles and planes, "tomahawks" shot down?

          And how many drones were able to attack? Or do you think there were no attempts? Oh well fool You mix warm with soft. In Syria, Russia is not at war with Israel. Duplicate Iranian protégés, and then in agreement with the General Staff of the Ministry of Defense.
          1. atalef
            atalef 14 October 2020 19: 30 New
            +4
            Quote: Alexander Seklitsky
            And how many drones were able to attack?

            over there, assembled on the knee from the set -Young Jihadist and rewound with duct tape?
            That Khmeinim was attacked by real drones? Combat?


            Quote: Alexander Seklitsky
            Well, well, you mix warm with soft.

            that's about it.
            1. Alexander Seklitsky
              Alexander Seklitsky 14 October 2020 19: 48 New
              -3
              Quote: atalef
              That Khmeinim was attacked by real drones? Combat?

              And what about toys? If such a small fry was found and neutralized, then the bayraktar at a high altitude would even be found and removed. It’s foolish not to understand this.
              1. Shahno
                Shahno 14 October 2020 19: 52 New
                +1
                Stupid not stupid .... Found, then poorly prepared attack. What do you want from the gangs. For what the money was, then they bought it.
                1. Alexander Seklitsky
                  Alexander Seklitsky 14 October 2020 19: 56 New
                  +1
                  Or maybe just the cover is working as it should? Including exploration
        2. Tank hard
          Tank hard 14 October 2020 19: 17 New
          0
          Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
          Yes, that's right! What tests are there in the absence of a ilny enemy and resistance to the single side ?! What are all these statements by our leaders about the insurmountable umbrella over Syria that our S-300-400 will provide? Many Israeli missiles and planes, "tomahawks" shot down? We sit like mice at the base and are afraid that something serious would not come. Il-20 was flunked by someone instead of F-16, so what?

          Is the author from a tank in Syria writing this analytics? wink
          1. Sergei Sovetkin
            14 October 2020 19: 24 New
            +2
            You tell this to everyone who writes about any war, including the Great Patriotic War and others. Otherwise they write and write, and everyone falsifies and falsifies history, they won't calm down. Nobody was there and saw nothing. I will tell you this - for that you need to have brains and certain abilities, and be objective, observing what is happening. This concerns everything else, by the way. Well, and courage to speak the truth. Especially when it takes place to be in a relationship with the boss.
            1. Tank hard
              Tank hard 14 October 2020 19: 26 New
              -5
              Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
              Well, and the courage to speak the truth.

              Tediously repeat the question, from Syria, from a tank writing ??
              1. Sergei Sovetkin
                14 October 2020 19: 51 New
                +7
                Can I not repeat what has already been said above? Or you don’t read in the tank, and if you do, you don’t understand, I don’t know for what reasons.
                1. Tank hard
                  Tank hard 14 October 2020 19: 55 New
                  -7
                  You tell it to everyone who writes about any war, including the Great Patriotic War and others. Otherwise they write and write and everyone falsifies and falsifies history, they won't calm down... Nobody was there and saw nothing.

                  One of my grandfathers (not only him) went through both the "Finnish" and the Patriotic War, I here (on the site) gave a link to him three times, he is in the book of memory of heroes. He was there, telling, what is the falsification? What kind of "truth" are you telling us that I don't know?
                  1. Tank hard
                    Tank hard 14 October 2020 20: 26 New
                    -6
                    Quote: Tank Hard

                    -1
                    You tell this to everyone who writes about any war, including the Great Patriotic War and others. Otherwise they write and write, and everyone falsifies and falsifies history, they won't calm down. Nobody was there and saw nothing.

                    One of my grandfathers (not only him) went through both the "Finnish" and the Patriotic War, I here (on the site) gave a link to him three times, he is in the book of memory of heroes. He was there, telling, what is the falsification? What kind of "truth" are you telling us that I don't know?

                    Apparently a real patriot puts cons, he loves the country. laughing
    2. Kart
      Kart 14 October 2020 17: 07 New
      -5
      This is their sobbing after a friendly cry that Russia did not come to the war again.
      Well, "everything is bad" needs to be worked out somehow? So, now they are starting a topic about our military-industrial complex, which of course is "bad".
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 18: 14 New
        +6
        Quote: Carte
        a topic about our military-industrial complex, which of course is "bad".

        Is he good or what?
  7. Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 14 October 2020 16: 49 New
    +2
    Here we still need to consider who uses weapons how ... and then only draw conclusions, whose weapons are better !!! good

    I am still impressed by how Israel managed at the very beginning of the Six Day War in 1967 in a matter of hours to destroy the airfields of Egypt ... according to my good friend, who was then an instructor there and trained the air defense forces ... (his pee-pee -pi into Russian literary can be translated as follows bully )

    - These ... radishes ... seeing Israeli planes on radars at the very last moment, scattered like ... cockroaches from their workplaces of air defense systems crying
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 14 October 2020 17: 54 New
      +5
      But in 1973, their air defense turned out to be at their best - they had to press down with tanks, having previously forced the Suez Canal
    2. atalef
      atalef 14 October 2020 19: 33 New
      +9
      Quote: Corona without virus
      Here we must also consider who uses weapons ... and then only draw conclusions, whose weapons are better!

      Strangely, where is your guarantee that they are better used in Russia?
      I’m not speaking - they sold weapons, trained them. gave admission to duty - and the result?
      Someone sold the same drones to Azerbaijanis - well, how they know how to fight for some reason, and the drones fly where they need to and the tanks click like in a dash.
      Strange.
  8. japan-k
    japan-k 14 October 2020 16: 54 New
    0
    Here the author does not say so a little. And it does not compare Russian weapons and the military-industrial complex. and also Soviet, judging by the main types of weapons that Armenia and Azerbaijan have. The Russian military-industrial complex has shown itself quite well in Syria, at least one UAV made its way to our bases ????
    Or how many Turkish drones were shot down in Syria and Libya by our shells and other air defense systems, despite the fact that the professionalism of the Syrian and Libyan operators of shells, to put it mildly, is not very
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 14 October 2020 17: 15 New
      +8
      Once well we made our way, and the curves are homemade militants, and not serious UAVs.
      Then we already saturate the air defense to the eyeballs and homemade products stopped flying successfully
  9. MTN
    MTN 14 October 2020 16: 55 New
    +9
    The author is wrong.
    Armenian technology is being destroyed for 3 reasons.
    1. Equipment in a deplorable state. The main fleet of tanks without reactive armor. Complete lack of strategy.
    2. And many air defense systems are not covered by anything.
    3. The Armenians underestimated their enemies. They thought the ancient Armenian spirit would help with this, but this does not happen.
    1. Sergei Sovetkin
      14 October 2020 17: 53 New
      +2
      This is the flip side of the matter.
  10. Seal
    Seal 14 October 2020 16: 56 New
    +9
    Quote: K-612-O
    The author goes too far, Karabakh, like Armenia, lacks more or less adequate air defense, to combat UAVs, as practice shows, air defense missile systems and TORs are needed, and fighter cover.
    The financial power of the world Armenian diaspora is such that if this diaspora donates at least 1/10 of its fortune to Armenia, Armenia will be able to redeem all its arms exports from Russia, the USA and China for 10 years in advance. Including "adequate air defense".
    1. K-612-O
      K-612-O 14 October 2020 17: 02 New
      +8
      It is not enough to buy weapons, you need to systematize training and education at all levels, the concept of operational art from the high command. The Turks in Azerbaijan were engaged in this, but the Armenians did not need to see it, omobenno with a bearded clown.
    2. Vasyan1971
      Vasyan1971 14 October 2020 17: 07 New
      +5
      Quote: Seal
      if this diaspora donates at least 1/10 of its wealth to Armenia,

      It was in this place that I began to laugh ... "Donate to Armenia" = donate to Pashinyan?
    3. Kart
      Kart 14 October 2020 17: 10 New
      -1
      Can. But it doesn't. And he doesn't do it at all - he doesn't buy the newest, either American or even Chinese.
      But for this the author blames Russia and its military-industrial complex, which is "bad."
    4. 1976AG
      1976AG 14 October 2020 17: 31 New
      +6
      Quote: Seal
      Quote: K-612-O
      The author goes too far, Karabakh, like Armenia, lacks more or less adequate air defense, to combat UAVs, as practice shows, air defense missile systems and TORs are needed, and fighter cover.
      The financial power of the world Armenian diaspora is such that if this diaspora donates at least 1/10 of its fortune to Armenia, Armenia will be able to redeem all its arms exports from Russia, the USA and China for 10 years in advance. Including "adequate air defense".

      And if the Armenian diaspora directs at least 10% of its number in Russia to help Karabakh, then the replenishment will be 200 people.
    5. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 14 October 2020 17: 55 New
      +5
      Quote: Seal
      Quote: K-612-O
      The author goes too far, Karabakh, like Armenia, lacks more or less adequate air defense, to combat UAVs, as practice shows, air defense missile systems and TORs are needed, and fighter cover.
      The financial power of the world Armenian diaspora is such that if this diaspora donates at least 1/10 of its fortune to Armenia, Armenia will be able to redeem all its arms exports from Russia, the USA and China for 10 years in advance. Including "adequate air defense".

      They won't do it - they have donated only 100 million tanks to Karabakh so far.
    6. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 14 October 2020 18: 18 New
      +6
      Quote: Seal
      The financial power of the world Armenian diaspora is such that if this diaspora donates at least 1/10 of its fortune to Armenia, Armenia will be able to redeem all its arms exports from Russia, the USA and China for 10 years in advance. Including "adequate air defense".

      Maybe Azerbaijan itself can buy it out cheaper? wink
      1. Nazar
        Nazar 15 October 2020 05: 30 New
        -1
        Alexey RA Quote: "Maybe Azerbaijan itself can buy it out cheaper?" - This is exactly what they did in the last war. Well, not "all" of course, but several areas from those that are now called the "NKR security belt" were not captured based on the results of battles. but with the help of bribery of Azerbaijani generals. And today people are dying there on one side and on the other. I wonder if those who received money back then for draining these areas are using this money calmly? Doesn't it hiccup to them? although what am I talking about, they don’t smell sad
    7. MTN
      MTN 14 October 2020 22: 37 New
      +1
      Quote: Seal
      if this diaspora

      After the earthquake in Armenia, Charles Aznavour donated a lot of money. Then he saw how his grandmothers were stealing and help to the victims did not reach. After this incident, there were no particularly large donations. Their public debt is approaching 10 times the country's budget. Can you imagine the state of the economy? Over the past month, Russia has dispatched its cargo planes many times with aid for their army. Plus boldly and this money. Free cheese only happens in a mousetrap. In addition to all this, add the weapons that they have lost since the beginning of the war ... ... do you think the diaspora will pull it?
    8. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 14 October 2020 23: 27 New
      0
      But he won't donate. At least on the right scale.
  11. Ulrih
    Ulrih 14 October 2020 16: 57 New
    +3
    And why did the author decide that the ratio was "multiple" in favor of Azerbaijan? Is there any information about this besides what is published by both parties in their accounts on Twitter and Facebook?
  12. seregin-s1
    seregin-s1 14 October 2020 16: 58 New
    10
    The author forgot that it was Azerbaijan that bought from Russia both Hurricanes and Solntsepeki, and T-90s, and helicopters, and much more. Moreover, modern modifications. So he wins. UAVs give a spectacular picture, but there is no reliable information how many of them were shot down. And there is no information they bomb iron or rubber tanks. Explosion and dust is cool! The dust will clear, but the damage is surely unacceptable? And especially cool videos from drones - kamikaze, where the picture is cut off, and the consequences are not observed. Optics is a great thing! It's too early to draw conclusions.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 14 October 2020 17: 09 New
      +9
      "from drones - kamikaze, where the picture breaks off, and the consequences are not observed" ///
      ----
      And if you think a little? smile
      The camera is located on the nose of the drone, and the warhead is behind the camera and the electronics unit.
      When hitting a target, the camera first breaks, and then the warhead is triggered.
      1. seregin-s1
        seregin-s1 14 October 2020 19: 59 New
        +3
        And if you think more?
    2. 1976AG
      1976AG 14 October 2020 17: 32 New
      +8
      Quote: seregin-s1
      The author forgot that it was Azerbaijan that bought from Russia both Hurricanes and Solntsepeki, and T-90s, and helicopters, and much more. Moreover, modern modifications. So he wins. UAVs give a spectacular picture, but there is no reliable information how many of them were shot down. And there is no information they bomb iron or rubber tanks. Explosion and dust is cool! The dust will clear, but the damage is surely unacceptable? And especially cool videos from drones - kamikaze, where the picture is cut off, and the consequences are not observed. Optics is a great thing! It's too early to draw conclusions.

      The video of the destruction of the bridge by an Israeli missile also seemed spectacular until the smoke cleared.
      1. MTN
        MTN 14 October 2020 22: 40 New
        0
        Quote: 1976AG
        The video of the destruction of the bridge by an Israeli missile also seemed spectacular.

        Do you think the deviation is less than 10 meters for the OTRK for an almost perfect feature?
        1. 1976AG
          1976AG 15 October 2020 12: 18 New
          0
          Quote: MTN
          Quote: 1976AG
          The video of the destruction of the bridge by an Israeli missile also seemed spectacular.

          Do you think the deviation is less than 10 meters for the OTRK for an almost perfect feature?

          It seems to me that the combat mission has not been completed - this is the main thing. And leave the deviation for theorists' debate.
    3. MTN
      MTN 14 October 2020 22: 39 New
      0
      Quote: seregin-s1
      The author has forgotten that it was Azerbaijan that bought from Russia both Hurricanes and Solntsepeki, and T-90s, and helicopters, and much more.

      Azerbaijan effectively uses Peony and Msta-S.
  13. sevtrash
    sevtrash 14 October 2020 17: 02 New
    -1
    Drones on the battlefield can decide the outcome of a battle, but they can't. Such as Turkey, Israel, even Iran, probably. There is no question of the United States. As it were, the super-means of air defense are there, but they do not work against drones. With engines, the tension is for ships and airplanes. The Americans have a new type of aircraft design, the sixth generation will make and launch rather SU57, adaptive engines that will give a 25% increase in thrust f40. Okay, you can't get the Americans. Like the Chinese, Europeans, Israelis, etc. But at least a Turk?
    1. michael2000
      michael2000 14 October 2020 17: 25 New
      -8
      What enchanting tales are you telling about American designers? The F-35 launched into the series was never completed. And you mean the engine, which is 40% more powerful. It's funny!
      1. sevtrash
        sevtrash 14 October 2020 17: 56 New
        0
        Quote: michael2000
        What enchanting tales are you telling about American designers? The F-35 launched into the series was never completed. And you mean the engine, which is 40% more powerful. It's funny!

        ... The power plant Pratt & Whitney received the designation XA101. The first samples of the new power plants will be able to develop thrust up to 200 kN. The increase in power is very significant, especially considering the thrust of the F135 engine of the F-35 Lightning II fighter jet of 125 kN in non-boost mode ... Content source: https://naukatehnika.com/f-35-dogonyaet-su-57-novyj- adaptivnyj-dvigatel.html
        naukatehnika.com
        ... The US Air Force has signed a number of contracts to continue work under the Adaptive Engine Transition Program (AETP), according to Military Parity.
        The contracts were awarded to General Electric Aviation and Pratt & Whitney for a total of US $ 1,01 billion with the completion of this phase of the program in September 2021 ...
        ... The modernization of the F135 will use the adaptive jet engine technology that Pratt & Whitney will develop as part of the AETP project. For its implementation, the company received one million dollars from the US Air Force. The ultimate goal of the AETP project will be to create new jet engines with a thrust of at least 200 kilonewtons and an economical cruising mode ... https: //vpk.name/news/159405_istrebiteli_f-35_poluchat_adaptivnye_dvigateli.html
        1. michael2000
          michael2000 14 October 2020 18: 10 New
          -4
          The key word is contract! The rest is husk.
          Or are you one of those who believe that the budget is cut only in the Russian Federation?
          1. sevtrash
            sevtrash 14 October 2020 18: 58 New
            +2
            Quote: michael2000
            The key word is contract! The rest is husk.
            Or are you one of those who believe that the budget is cut only in the Russian Federation?

            The budget is cut, possibly everywhere or almost everywhere, but its degree is different and even very different, plus the main thing is the presence of a result. Considering that work on the adaptive engine did not begin yesterday, given that General Electric Aviation and Pratt & Whitney are doing this, given that this is happening in the United States, there is no doubt that the result will be. These are not fairy tales for you.
            1. michael2000
              michael2000 14 October 2020 19: 31 New
              -5
              You probably pray in the morning for the USA? Especially the phrase "considering that this is happening in the USA".
              You see, the unfinished F-35 suggests that with an engine (and even more so with such characteristics) it will only reach real cartoons, but not to the assembly line for its production.
              1. sevtrash
                sevtrash 14 October 2020 19: 57 New
                +6
                Quote: michael2000
                You see, the unfinished F-35 suggests that with an engine (and even more so with such characteristics) it will only reach real cartoons, but not to the assembly line for its production.

                I don’t know what world you live in and how you get, or rather manage to pass by, information. F35 in series, about 600 built and even - even !!! - they are participating in hostilities. Who uses them and where - you can guess. It's amazing how you are behind the times, although you can already guess by ignorance of the adaptive engine)))
                1. michael2000
                  michael2000 15 October 2020 04: 59 New
                  -1
                  600 pieces riveted? Yes? And the fact that for the F-35 stretches a footcloth of 966 critical flaws of which 111 defects belong to the first category of complexity!
                  But you continue to believe that this is the best fighter ever built.
                  1. Grits
                    Grits 15 October 2020 09: 49 New
                    +2
                    Quote: michael2000
                    And the fact that for the F-35 stretches a footcloth of 966 critical flaws of which 111 defects belong to the first category of complexity!
                    But you continue to believe that this is the best fighter ever built.

                    Not the best. And a bunch of defects. But, nevertheless, it is being built. He flies and flies a lot. In addition, it sells very well and is in service with more than one country. I'm not sure that due to the fact that the Su-57 has been tested for decades, it will have the same success.
                    1. michael2000
                      michael2000 15 October 2020 12: 45 New
                      -3
                      Not the best. And a bunch of defects. But, nevertheless, they are building it. He flies and flies a lot.

                      They say that the chicken is also a bird
                      In addition, it sells very well and is in service with more than one country.

                      It sells well because they use the principle - buy a brick!
                      I'm not sure that due to the fact that the Su-57 has been tested for decades, it will have the same success.

                      As they say in Odessa - we'll take a look!
                      1. Grits
                        Grits 16 October 2020 03: 50 New
                        0
                        Quote: michael2000
                        It sells well because they use the principle - buy a brick!

                        It is a pity that we cannot do this. Firstly, there is no such impudence and strength. And secondly, there is no brick.
        2. Sergei Sovetkin
          14 October 2020 19: 33 New
          +4
          Yes, you throw beads in vain and tell the materials available to people interested in the issue. This is not the case. You can talk and argue with those who want to know the truth, and do not see intrigues in everything and are sure in advance of the superiority of their own over someone else's, especially American.
          1. sevtrash
            sevtrash 14 October 2020 19: 58 New
            +3
            Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
            Yes, you throw beads in vain and tell the materials available to people interested in the issue. This is not the case. You can talk and argue with those who want to know the truth, and do not see intrigues in everything and are sure in advance of the superiority of their own over someone else's, especially American.

            Yes, a difficult case)))
            1. Sergei Sovetkin
              14 October 2020 20: 00 New
              +2
              That's it! And so - only a headache
          2. Tank hard
            Tank hard 14 October 2020 20: 34 New
            -5
            Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
            but not in everything he sees intrigues and is sure in advance of the superiority of his own over a stranger, especially an American one.

            Those. Are you lobbying for American interest here? wink
            1. Sergei Sovetkin
              14 October 2020 20: 41 New
              +2
              You don't know yet that I am against corruption, theft, nepotism and for truth and justice
              1. Tank hard
                Tank hard 14 October 2020 20: 42 New
                -6
                Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
                You don't know yet that I am against corruption, theft, nepotism and for truth and justice

                Yes, yes, citizen Navalny, you are recognized. wink
                1. Fan-fan
                  Fan-fan 15 October 2020 19: 30 New
                  -2
                  Oh, citizen Chubais, we also recognized you.
    2. Grits
      Grits 15 October 2020 09: 44 New
      0
      Quote: sevtrash
      Okay, you can't get the Americans. Like the Chinese, Europeans, Israelis, etc. But at least a Turk?

      Yes, a disgrace. The great aviation power Russia, which took over all the experience of aircraft construction from the USSR, in creating and launching into a series of UAVs, is trailing behind third-rate countries that have never shone in aircraft construction. Turkey, Iran, Israel .... it's a shame, comrades.
      1. Fan-fan
        Fan-fan 15 October 2020 19: 34 New
        -1
        There is no time to make drones, we are engaged in serious business: jew's harps super-hyper-duper missile-torpedoes with a nuclear engine.
  14. rocket757
    rocket757 14 October 2020 17: 03 New
    +3
    our drones, primarily drums, are absent from the theater of operations. They just don't exist.

    So it is there that the air defense of Armenia is either equipped with outdated equipment, besides, in structure it does not correspond to the tasks that are highlighted in this type of conflict. The experience of Syria, Libya, showed what and how to do ... they did not take into account, did not want / could not learn from the mistakes of others!
    It is clear that the point is also in the operators of certain weapons, in the conditions of their storage, types of camouflage and tactics of use, in the novelty of weapons, in the end.

    It wasn't the bobbin! By the way, for its serviceability, modernization, too, the "gasket" had to attend to!
    1. cniza
      cniza 14 October 2020 18: 34 New
      +6
      But a lot of useful things can be learned from this conflict, no matter how blasphemous it sounds ...
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 14 October 2020 19: 09 New
        +3
        Three conflicts with the massive use of Turkish and other drones! So much information, I don’t want to draw it!
        Only few people learn from other people's mistakes! They themselves prefer to jump on a rake!
        1. cniza
          cniza 14 October 2020 20: 43 New
          +4
          It's with us, as always, to fill our own bumps ...
  15. AndreyS
    AndreyS 14 October 2020 17: 07 New
    +3
    Honestly, complete nonsense! "...And here the most important thing for Russia in this war is that there is, in fact, anti-publicity for our military-industrial complex and the power of our weapons and equipment... "I believe that at the moment it is impossible to make a correct analysis of the capabilities of any military-industrial complex, because the real picture is not known by anyone except those involved in the conflict, especially from the radars and launchers of the S-300 air defense systems. Whether they were destroyed or not is not known for certain. And as the Azerbaijani side, excuse me, sometimes lies, I would not believe in anything. The only thing that is said correctly in the article is "...That is what the S-300 air defense systems are worth with their insufficiently skillful operation.... "It would be more correct about all the weapons operated from both sides. In the photo and video, all equipment is like a parade, I don’t want to shoot. And I also really want to make a comment to the respected author, before writing about Russian weapons, you need to understand a little about the composition of the weapons of As far as I understand, Russia never supplied the NKR with weapons. Tochka-U is a weapon produced by the USSR, and we know the experience of using this weapon by Ukraine, there was the same result, one of the three missiles only detonated, and the reason is simple, the missiles have limited service life, as well as operators should be able to use the weapons that they use, preferably not at the level of a “glamorous user.” After all, in any case, cadres decide everything.
    1. Sergei Sovetkin
      14 October 2020 20: 07 New
      +8
      And here is not a hidden disdain for the opponent. Do you think you are the only one delving into the topic? Il just my own opinion, with which, I am sure, many military and civilian readers will agree. And about the S-300, I personally know a man, a colonel, who was on the commission for accepting these complexes and putting them on alert. And then he served for them. His opinion - the complex and its missiles were never brought to mind. The effectiveness is overstated in the media. Which confirms the failure of the air defense in Syria, including the inaction of our S-400s there. Even when the Tomahawks were striking Syria, when they were disgraced by explanations about the curvature of the Earth in Syria, and later by the fact that it is not our business, since they are not hitting our base, forgetting about their own threats to everyone who will fly over Syria. I think you should remember this.
      And I did not justify the failure of our technology by the fact that the crews were not prepared. With the same success, the Americans destroyed the T-72 tanks of the Iraqi Republican Guard during the "Buoi in the Desert". Were there also not those warriors? So, like, if our people were at the consoles, then we would show everyone there the devils. For I consider this untrue and disrespectful to the same Armenian soldiers who died there, being helpless against drone strikes. In addition, since the complex is so difficult to master, then there is also a question - is there any point in buying it? Maybe there is something easier to learn? Although many processes there, as far as is known, are automated and the human factor plays a role, but not so much that only the highest intellect is able to work effectively on the S-300. This complex, having reached the time of writing off practically and replacing, has never shown itself in a real battle. And I think that it will not show. And no matter how we receive complaints from China and Turkey about the complexes supplied by them. And I still think when I write. Yours faithfully
      1. AndreyS
        AndreyS 14 October 2020 20: 43 New
        0
        Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
        Are you the only one delving into the topic? Il just my own opinion, with which, I am sure, many military and civilian readers will agree.

        Dear Sergey! It is I who do not delve into the topic. And I understand perfectly well that every person has his own opinion, while you really excuse me if I offended you with a word - complete nonsense. But I can explain why I wrote this. Once again, I repeat that the S-300 complex was destroyed (well, or part of it) is not a fact - this is the first, secondly, Azerbaijan is fighting not with Armenia, but with the NKR (therefore, it is strongly incorrect to indicate Armenia as a party to the conflict) and the result of the destruction of the complex Armenia would have received a response from the CSTO. Third, Russia obviously did not sell any air defense systems in the NKR, which means, in fact, there are only complexes produced by the USSR until 1992 (before the first war). Fourthly, taking into account what I have written above, I think that your reasoning about the failure of our current military-industrial complex is not just incorrect, but premature.
        Now about your colonel (friend) and "
        Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
        when striking "Tomahawks" in Syria, when they disgraced themselves with explanations about the curvature of the Earth in Syria, and later that it was not our business, since they do not hit our base, forgetting about their own threats to everyone who will fly over Syria. I think you should remember this.
        , everyone remembers this, but "...According to Russian means of objective control, 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles were fired from two US destroyers that are drifting off the island of Crete at the Syrian airbase Al-Shayrat in the province of Homs. A massive blow was struck at night, at about 3.42 to 3.56 Moscow time. Of 59 missiles, only 23 missiles flew to the air base... "it is written on the website (https://www.kuban.kp.ru/daily/26664.7/3684962/) so far. I have a question for you as a person who understands the air defense system - how many S-300 complexes ( S-400) was at the time of the strike within the radius of the possibility of striking the fired Tomahawks? What ammunition (in total) of the available means of destruction, preferably with an indication of the probability of hitting the target? And why, after all, only 39% of Tomahawks reached the target? With respect to Thank you in advance.
        1. Sergei Sovetkin
          14 October 2020 21: 44 New
          +1
          Thank you, but you trust some sources and use them, and I use others. Therefore, there is no point in arguing about the results of the strike on that base. And about the number of complexes that the crews slept and I repeat, the curvature of the Earth in that area, as well as the meanness of the American military, this is all to Soloviev
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 14 October 2020 22: 38 New
            +1
            And I trust the most reliable source of OBS !!! Your reliable source "one colonel said who accepted" well the same. Greetings to you and your colonel from the Astrakhan steppes, where no one sees our models and your colonel has never been ... if he is / was at all.
            Such nonsense to write, it is still necessary to be able to. Congratulations, you did it.
        2. rocket757
          rocket757 14 October 2020 22: 42 New
          -1
          Quote: AndreyS
          It is I who do not delve into the topic.

          But you understand, listen to normal experts .... otherwise the chuyka did not disappoint you, you appreciated this opus, so you can search / get information from various sources more trustworthy than "one familiar colonel who ... "
          1. AndreyS
            AndreyS 15 October 2020 09: 45 New
            +1
            Quote: rocket757
            And you understand, listen to normal experts ... otherwise the chuyka did not disappoint you, they appreciated this opus

            Thank you for your assessment, of course, but to be honest, I don't even want to bother with these high technologies. After all, life is not enough to plast everything that is on the Internet. I expressed to the distinguished author my purely personal opinion about the article, that it is too early to draw conclusions without knowing the whole real picture.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 15 October 2020 10: 21 New
              -1
              So the author gave his version, based on "reliable", other sources.
      2. Grits
        Grits 15 October 2020 09: 54 New
        +4
        The fact remains - the S-300, which in its entire history has not shot down a single aircraft, was easily destroyed by a simple UAV. There is something to scratch a turnip over. First of all, about too high expectations from the advertised complex.
    2. Nazar
      Nazar 15 October 2020 06: 04 New
      +1
      AndreyS - Colleague. what do you mean by "Russian" weapons? What is made in Russia? So it in any case will be USSR, there is no other. Armata, Coalition, Boomerangs, SU57 and so on, what can be considered Russian - only at parades, they are not like the allies in the CSTO, they are not even in the Russian army.
      And all these D-30, "Smerchi", T72 and T90, S300, Buki, Torah of various modifications - the weapons developed more than 30 years ago by another country (USSR) have not created their own for 30 years. "Modernization" - replacing ancient Soviet electronics with Chinese chips - does not change the essence, the Russian Federation produces for itself and sells abroad Soviet weapons, even a "wunder waffle" - "Avangard" flies on a Soviet carrier ("Stiletto"), and not that that developed, but also produced in the USSR, the missiles were stored in a warehouse for 30 years.
      Over these 30 years, the methods of warfare have changed significantly and Soviet equipment no longer meets modern requirements - hence the result - those who use Russian-Soviet weapons are beaten.
      What is 30 years for weapons? This is approximately the same as if I-16 and I-15 were fighting against the Phantoms in Vietnam, and in this situation no “cadres” will decide anything.
  16. SaLaR
    SaLaR 14 October 2020 17: 10 New
    +3
    at the moment, the "advertisement" unfortunately plays against Russian weapons ... maybe it's time to turn on your brains ..
  17. pexotinec
    pexotinec 14 October 2020 17: 13 New
    +5
    Author, what are you talking about? Judging by the armament of Karabakh and Armenia, our military-industrial complex is not in danger, they have old stuff. Where did they get electronic warfare. Pashinyan did not bet on those. I wanted to eat a fish and ...... So there is no real support from Russia. And the Turks and Israel are helping Azerbaijan with modern technology, really driving Azerbaijan into servitude
  18. LiSiCyn
    LiSiCyn 14 October 2020 17: 15 New
    +6
    The author himself answers the question posed ... Who is the operator? This time. The military air defense system is practically absent. The Armenians are actually fighting with the models of the 70-80s, which have not undergone any modernization. These are two. As he himself mentions, the situation in Syria is somewhat different, you know what I mean ... These are three.
    Now on the UAV. Yes, our lag is significant, in any case we do not export. But, the same "Kalashnikov" has already presented a bulging ammunition, what prevented Armenia from buying it ??? Did you think they would give it, as always? And modern electronic warfare systems are not used in Karabakh either. The main importers of our military-industrial complex are looking more at Syria, where new samples are applied and tested.
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 14 October 2020 19: 23 New
      +1
      Quote: LiSiCyn
      what prevented Armenia from buying it ???

      Once they build democracy. The Americans, again, do not support the purchase of Russian weapons, but the American needs money ... In short, everything and, as always, started the construction of democracy, get ready for losses of various kinds. laughing
      1. LiSiCyn
        LiSiCyn 14 October 2020 20: 25 New
        +4
        The Armenians now claim that they knew about the impending attack, but did not know where and when? And if they knew, why didn't they hurry up?
        Danil, I know the answer, you don't have to answer. laughing Some grabbed into a full throat, while others were jealous and having thrown off those who were before them, they began to do the same. There was no time for defense.
    2. Tank hard
      Tank hard 14 October 2020 20: 38 New
      -3
      Quote: LiSiCyn
      The author himself answers the question.

      The author simply hates Russia and in any way tries to throw mud at it. Very cool authors and articles are published on VO periodically. wink
      1. LiSiCyn
        LiSiCyn 14 October 2020 20: 50 New
        +2
        Quote: Tank Hard
        Very cool authors and articles are published on VO periodically.

        Everything, the author merged ... Or merged. what He wrote in the feed that he did not agree with the site administration. Now, only on the "mordobook".
        1. Tank hard
          Tank hard 14 October 2020 21: 05 New
          -2
          Quote: LiSiCyn
          Everything, the author merged ... Or merged. He wrote in the feed that he did not agree with the site administration. Now, only on the "Mordbook

          Criticism should be constructive, and the author only drowns for American weapons. As for the UAV, I hope, whoever needs it, made conclusions and a decision will be made. And about shooting down the Israelis or not shooting down, this is a special topic and there is no need to talk about it. IMHO. hi
  19. Petio
    Petio 14 October 2020 17: 27 New
    +5
    In non-combat position, you can humiliate any air defense system. If without prikritiya. At least the S-500. In 2019, the Houthis, with the help of Iranian UAVs, also humiliated 2 Saudi launchers of the Patriot air defense system in a non-combat position
  20. Gavrohs
    Gavrohs 14 October 2020 17: 31 New
    +1
    The author is telling the truth! After this conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh there will be a decrease in sales of the Russian military-industrial complex!
    1. Terenin
      Terenin 14 October 2020 18: 30 New
      +5
      Quote: Gavrohs
      The author is telling the truth! After this conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh there will be a decrease in sales of the Russian military-industrial complex!

      Truth is best told from a tank winked
      1. cniza
        cniza 14 October 2020 18: 32 New
        +6
        And when there is cover from above in the form of aviation ... hi
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 14 October 2020 19: 13 New
          +3
          Only aviation, it's expensive. A complex of more business events will be no less effective.
          One thing without question, airspace control and reconnaissance system! Without it, nowhere and in any way!
          1. cniza
            cniza 14 October 2020 20: 46 New
            +3
            Yes, there must be a complex and in each case, they must decide according to the place and situation ...
        2. Terenin
          Terenin 14 October 2020 20: 09 New
          +4
          Quote: cniza
          And when there is cover from above in the form of aviation ... hi

          With R-77-1 medium-range air-to-air missiles hi
          1. cniza
            cniza 14 October 2020 20: 47 New
            +4
            There, the set has no restrictions, for every taste ...
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 14 October 2020 22: 56 New
              +2
              Well, all of us, them, are run by politicians !!! And they are people everywhere ... multi-vector!
              If death was not really / conditionally threatened by the old enemy, they would not scratch themselves with purchases of such weapons !!! But, somehow everything is one-sided, lagged behind and do not understand why, for some kind of war or just to threaten, do not understand who !!!
              Neither the composition of the weapons, nor the preparation and other measures do not correspond to the new circumstances, the factors that COULD / MUST have appeared during the conflict !!!
              They have repeatedly pointed out that they are NOT READY, AT ALL ..... but there, there is a multi-vector and the struggle for power !!!
              Everything, sho there still to explain, to argue, DO NOT PREPARE! Now the peoples who have trusted them with a full cup of hl and .... but will they make reasonable conclusions, I'm NOT ........
      2. rocket757
        rocket757 14 October 2020 19: 11 New
        +3
        Yes, yes, aiming the barrel at the apponent! You can still accelerate, a little, a little!
        1. cniza
          cniza 14 October 2020 20: 48 New
          +1
          Zhvanetsky sounded it best of all ...
    2. Sergei Sovetkin
      14 October 2020 19: 41 New
      +4
      Thank you for understanding! This was the main idea of ​​the article. The editorial board considered it too free in its original form and made significant changes. Well, these were my last publications. Love was not debt, separation became without sorrow. The relationship is severed. So that's it.
      I write on my Facebook page about everything and how I think it is right. Thank you again
      1. Terenin
        Terenin 14 October 2020 20: 07 New
        +6
        Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
        Thank you for understanding! This was the main idea of ​​the article. The editorial board considered it too free in its original form and made significant changes. Well, these were my last publications. Love was not debt, separation became without sorrow. The relationship is severed. So that's it.
        I write on my Facebook page about everything and how I think it is right. Thank you again

        Sergey, wink ... Don't hang your nose, gardamarines ...!
        1. Sergei Sovetkin
          14 October 2020 20: 25 New
          +2
          Thanks! I don’t hang. For I see the general vector of editorial policy. And there are limits to compromise
          1. Fan-fan
            Fan-fan 15 October 2020 19: 45 New
            0
            Most likely, the editors are under pressure from above, so they cannot publish too critical materials, otherwise they will be shut down. But nevertheless, this is at least a little, but a true resource, I know sites where only one opinion is allowed, all commentators with the opposite opinion are banned. And here they are still tolerant of different opinions.
      2. Grits
        Grits 15 October 2020 10: 00 New
        +3
        Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
        Well, these were my last publications. Love was not debts, separation became without sorrow.

        Do not be surprised or offended. Any article is always criticized by both amateurs and professionals. You just have to be ready for this when publishing. If spears break around your article, it means that everyone was interested in it and was not boring and straightforward.
        1. Sergei Sovetkin
          15 October 2020 13: 05 New
          +1
          Thanks. The relationship was terminated at the initiative of the editorial board. Not mine. And if the article came out in the form that it was originally, then here not only the spears would break
    3. rocket757
      rocket757 14 October 2020 22: 59 New
      0
      The author has arguments of the OBS level ..... something like this.
  21. Victorm
    Victorm 14 October 2020 17: 34 New
    -5
    Quote: MTN
    The author is wrong.
    Armenian technology is being destroyed for 3 reasons.
    1. Equipment in a deplorable state. The main fleet of tanks without reactive armor. Complete lack of strategy.
    2. And many air defense systems are not covered by anything.
    3. The Armenians underestimated their enemies. They thought the ancient Armenian spirit would help with this, but this does not happen.

    1. A consequence of the fact that the leadership of Armenia was not statesmen, personal enrichment was above all. Let's speak frankly, Armenia's victory was almost a gift in the First War.
    2. The army became a settler for losers, in such a situation only a few elite units still remained more or less efficient. It's like the situation of the decline of the USSR and early Russia, when all the holes were plugged by the Airborne Forces and the Special Forces of the Internal Troops, which, to be honest, the Azerbaijani army went through the same stage.
    3. A myth under which there is no basis. Any clash of Armenians with the same Azerbaijanis ended with the defeat of the Armenians. And Hayeva's fairy tales have been sucked out of who knows what finger. Suffice it to recall the fate of the "Arab" battalion, which was promoted in its time.


    Well, in general, according to the article - nonsense. If someone took into account the author's arguments, then after the defeat of the Arabs by the Israelis, no one would buy Soviet weapons.
    Compare the superior Arabs versus the Israelis, and the Vietnamese versus the superior Americans ...
    1. Sergei Sovetkin
      14 October 2020 20: 17 New
      +3
      And you will not reveal the secret with what weapons the Jews defeated the many times superior forces of the Arabs? Our ground weapons were on an equal footing with the American ones until about the end of the Vietnam War. Then the Americans went into the lead, learning from their lessons. And an important role in our lag was played by the fact that the USSR missed the scientific and technological revolution that took place in the world. This is where the lag in electronics, satellites, computers, and generally in high science-intensive technologies started. This was reflected in our weapons. First of all, on accuracy, range, size, reliability and storage time, quality of control and guidance, communications and reconnaissance. And today the picture is even worse after the failure in industry and science in connection with the collapse of the Union.
      1. MTN
        MTN 14 October 2020 21: 57 New
        0
        Quote: Sergei Sovetkin
        And you will not reveal the secret with what weapons the Jews defeated the many times superior forces of the Arabs?

        A weapon becomes a weapon in the hands of whoever can use it. In this case, the Jews turned out to be smarter strategically and stronger in weapons. Their tanks saw the target first, unlike the Arabs. Their soldiers are more trained than the Arabs. Their military savvy is much more effective than the strategy of the Arabs. Their planes flew where they were not expected and attacked, changing strategy taking into account the air defense of the Arabs. And the Soviet air defense was very effective but he is an Arab and an Arab in Africa. Preparation and professionalism were not at a decent level.
  22. Prisoner
    Prisoner 14 October 2020 17: 36 New
    +1
    There is a reason in the article. If you don't dig too deep, then there are elements of anti-advertising. But only we, the townsfolk, can be driven by them. Experts will draw their own conclusions.
  23. Whirlwind
    Whirlwind 14 October 2020 17: 38 New
    0
    There is an endless fight between sword and shield and our weapon in this fight is not the last.
    Export performance, as a rule, is always weaker than those entering our Army and Navy, and the customer knows and accepts this.
    But of course, our gunsmiths will certainly draw conclusions from the results of this war. The main thing is that this is not our war and not on our territory ...
    1. Essex62
      Essex62 14 October 2020 18: 21 New
      +1
      And on whose territory? This is the territory of Ingushetia and after the USSR. Modern thinking. The naglo-Saxons achieved their goal, dismembered. First of all, in the minds of a single, once people. So Russia will be divided into parts. A start.
  24. g1v2
    g1v2 14 October 2020 17: 43 New
    +4
    Will the drones also capture the territory and NP? MLRS and the artel use both sides, and the Armenians are very good at it. request Unfortunately, you cannot estimate the effectiveness of air defense from video. Because they are being exchanged for uavs. How many downed UAVs, converted AN2s, missiles and helicopters to the number of destroyed air defense and equipment, we will find out only when the conflict subsides. Then it will be clear what was left in the ranks and what was lost. How many were destroyed by artillery and missile defense systems, and how many uavs. And again, the bulk of modern air defense systems are located in Armenia itself. The NKR covers mostly old stuff. Plus, the main forces of the parties have not yet entered the battle. request
    But in general, of course, as a test site, Karabakh would be nice. You can collect a lot of useful information for developers of air defense equipment. Again, various tactics of using Turkish low-cost UAVs and ways to counter them are being studied. Useful in Donbass, Syria, Libya, etc. recourse
    As for advertising and anti-advertising, buyers do not evaluate the effectiveness of air defense systems by video. In the same Libya, despite all the beautiful videos of the Turks, the shells did an excellent job of covering the Haftarites. Plus, the Turks have already lost 20 percent of all available bayraktars there, and Haftar's troops are quite combat-ready. In the world in the region of 200 countries, and for at least 150 of them, air defense built on the basis of inexpensive shells is the best choice. hi
  25. Cop
    Cop 14 October 2020 17: 50 New
    +3
    In this story, the author presents his own opinion about a purely negative scenario for the Russian military-industrial complex.
    Do you think that there can be a positive scenario as well?
    Russia theoretically should not suffer in any outcome of this military conflict.
    What are you? I am afraid that after the defeat of Armenia, we will see thousands of rallies in front of our base, demanding to get out.
    In particular, the image of the main brands of our export and, in general, the defense industry, which has been created for decades by means of powerful public relations, is crumbling - electronic warfare stations, OTRK Tochka-U, tanks, Mi-24 helicopters, MLRS systems, including Smerch, other armored vehicles and artillery systems.
    Listen, author, do you at least understand where the development of the military-industrial complex is going? Indeed, in 20-30 years, the UAV on the battlefield will chase not just individual soldiers, but a SPECIFIC soldier or commander. I personally do not envy the PKK or Hezbollah fighters. Why do we need hundreds of T-14s, if a cheap "orbiter" will beat him from above into the tower. Well, if the armored capsule can withstand ...
    That is what the S-300 air defense systems cost with their insufficiently skillful operation.
    And if they could, do you think it would be different? Some "Harpy" is flying and you are going to spend 48N6E on it?
    It is clear that the point is also in the operators of certain weapons, in the conditions of their storage, types of camouflage and tactics of use, in the novelty of weapons, in the end.
    Did you write that seriously? Even if every second air defense system is just a layout, then everything is visible in the infrared spectrum. Yes, even if it is not visible, you will think that instead of the principle of one UAV - one target, there will be the principle of two UAVs - one target ...
    If everything goes according to a negative scenario, then the Russian military-industrial complex will have to restore its reputation, forcing events.
    I think that it is already impossible to restore it. In modern local wars, the weapons produced by the Russian military-industrial complex are not needed in such quantities.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 14 October 2020 18: 33 New
      +3
      Quote: Cop
      And if they could, do you think it would be different? Some "Harpy" is flying and you are going to spend 48N6E on it?

      No. In normal system The S-300 air defense is at least in the rear of the army (for the "B" version, the country's air defenses are even deeper) and is covered by the "Tori" or "Shells". The fight against UAVs is their task.
      Plus electronic warriors, crushing information transmission channels and revealing the location of repeaters / UAV control points.
      Quote: Cop
      Did you write this seriously? Even if every second air defense system is just a mock-up, then everything is visible in the infrared spectrum.

      You just don't need to save. Complete layouts simulate real technology in the optical, thermal and radar wavelength range. ©
      1. Cop
        Cop 14 October 2020 19: 06 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexey RA
        No. In normal system The S-300 air defense is at least in the rear of the army (for the "B" version, the country's air defenses are even deeper) and is covered by the "Tori" or "Shells". The fight against UAVs is their task.
        Not very long ago I saw a video that the Jews published. It showed how two drones were spreading the "shell". One distracted and the other struck. And the comments were written, it took a few seconds for the "shell" to turn around and hit a new target. But it wasn't enough. And then such air defense will be broken through in combination. Why am I? And besides, the costs of overcoming such an air defense system will be differently cheaper than its creation and operation.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Plus electronic warriors, crushing information transmission channels and revealing the location of repeaters / UAV control points.
        In this case, the drone will switch to GPS guidance and you will have to crush the GPS signal. I don't even know if it's possible to suppress it completely.
        Quote: Cop
        Did you write this seriously? Even if every second air defense system is just a mock-up, then everything is visible in the infrared spectrum.

        Quote: Alexey RA
        You just don't need to save. Complete layouts simulate real technology in the optical, thermal and radar wavelength range. ©
        So, what is more expensive, such a model or a kamikaze drone?
    2. Sergei Sovetkin
      14 October 2020 19: 47 New
      +3
      And thank you for your understanding. You absolutely rightly carried everything from what was written. And I agree with your arguments. And the further the “hurray-patriots” stick their heads in the sand, the more sad the results of the work of our military-industrial complex and the army as a whole will be.
  26. Dikson
    Dikson 14 October 2020 18: 00 New
    +3
    I would not worry about our military-industrial complex ... - we will modernize the old T-72s for our army .. and finally saturate our air defense systems that are not sold to anyone with the s-300 .. and the s-400 .. We have a huge country .. And the UAV? why do we need them? When they kill all our tankers and air defense personnel like partridges, then the most important general will press a button and blow up all missiles that have not yet learned how to shoot down, because they fly as they want .. The author of the article forgot the most important thing - our weapon is the best in the world ... even if it doesn't shoot or fly. Is Barmaleev enough to drive him away from wells in foreign countries? Okay.
  27. cniza
    cniza 14 October 2020 18: 30 New
    +2
    It is clear that the point is also in the operators of certain weapons, in the conditions of their storage, types of camouflage and tactics of use, in the novelty of weapons, in the end.


    And also in the military commanders ...
  28. 7,62h54
    7,62h54 14 October 2020 18: 56 New
    +3
    The signing of any contract, and not just a military one, depends on the personal interest of the decision-maker.
  29. Tank hard
    Tank hard 14 October 2020 20: 29 New
    -6
    An anti-Russian article, as an example of hatred for the country, nothing constructive, a solid negative, an opus of an all-consuming man.
    1. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 15 October 2020 19: 56 New
      0
      von Messer, I advise you to visit the site "Politicus", there you will find kindred spirits, there they express only one opinion - your favorite, jingoistic patriotic.
  30. Boris Chernikov
    Boris Chernikov 14 October 2020 21: 09 New
    +1
    take away the keyboard from Sovetkin .. in fact, Israel and Turkey won the conflict as manufacturers of UAVs and kamikaze drones ..
  31. Servisinzhener
    Servisinzhener 14 October 2020 21: 18 New
    +1
    To make such loud statements, one must be aware of how much and what was destroyed by the Azerbaijani side with the help of Turkish and Israeli technology. And how much with the help of "Msta-S", 2S1 "Carnation", RZSO "Grad" / "Hurricane" / Smerch. Yes, at least to know the consumption of ammunition used for each type of equipment.
    Because those videos that are exhibited by both sides are just the most spectacular specially selected picture. And it does not quite correctly reflect the use of technology by one side or another.
  32. Kerensky
    Kerensky 14 October 2020 21: 58 New
    +1
    Hmm! Fighter cover? Visual detection? They flew somehow in the Second World War on a free hunt, and even without walkie-talkies ... And they found it.
    Bayraktar (in analogies) - the same "Rama". Ali taught him to conduct air combat? Seek and you will find!
  33. high
    high 14 October 2020 22: 13 New
    -1
    Quote: Livonetc
    What could be the damage to the Russian military-industrial complex.
    .

    Apparently, buyers will ponder before buying the S-300, 400, if they are easily destroyed by Israeli loitering ammunition. In Syria, both sides observed neutrality: S-300s were not used and there were no attacks on them.
    By the way, are Turkish drone UAVs a license purchased from Israel or a design successfully copied from them?
    1. high
      high 14 October 2020 22: 23 New
      0
      Found :
      Ankara acquired the technology for the production of UAVs from Israel, which, surrounded by unfriendly Arab states, went to meet the only situational ally in the region - Turkey.

      https://riafan.ru/1284415-izrail-predostavlyaet-turcii-vysokie-tekhnologii-chtoby-oslabit-sar
      1. aslanxnumx
        aslanxnumx 15 October 2020 01: 48 New
        -1
        The basis is Israeli, but further development is the result of its talented engineers. Moreover, Turkey has managed to significantly reduce the cost.
  34. Moskovit
    Moskovit 14 October 2020 22: 44 New
    0
    The truth is in the middle. As always. Sober conclusions must be drawn from this war and the Syrian one. Where is Russia really lagging behind, where are we going at the level.
    There is no doubt about the fighting spirit of the Armenians. And the Azerbaijanis stubbornly attack.
    And regarding the provision of the Armenian army, as one of my Armenian acquaintances, an athlete, said, never contact the Armenians if you want to organize something. I go straight to the Russians.
    The savings turned into blood ... and loss of land. I do not think that Azerbaijan will give back what it took.
  35. Nasdaq
    Nasdaq 15 October 2020 00: 30 New
    0
    The Karabakh conflict hit first of all on the reputation of Russian air defense systems.
    Considering that Azerbaijani drones (strike drones, kamikaze) fly not only in the territory of Karabakh, but also fly into Armenia, and the Armenian s-300 air defense systems (albeit not the latest modification) do not really shoot down these targets, the question arises: is it really so as good as these systems are advertised. After all, no one has any doubts that the Armenian air defense systems, being in Armenia, at the first opportunity, would shoot down enemy UAVs both in the taritorium of Armenia (an attack on the OTRK) and in disputed territories. But as the Azerbaijani Defense Ministry demonstrates in the published videos, the UAVs feel "quite" comfortable and operate effectively. More precisely, all the successes of Azerbaijan in this conflict were achieved thanks to the effectiveness of the UAV and the lack of effective air defense systems of the enemy. If you put on this the experience of Libya and Syria, then it all looks dumb. It is clear that Armenia has the ancient S-300, but potential clients will definitely have the sediment. UNIVERSAL !!!
  36. storm
    storm 15 October 2020 01: 37 New
    +1
    Armenians as buyers of weapons have a negative status because accustomed to just getting everything for free.
    Azerbaijan has money, but increasingly focuses on weapons "not from Russia."
    Therefore, it is beneficial for Russia to simply observe and draw conclusions for itself about the relevance of various weapons systems in regional conflicts of low and medium intensity.
  37. Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 15 October 2020 02: 42 New
    0
    People are fighting, not equipment, so crumbling a loaf on the Russian military-industrial complex is unreasonable.
  38. tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 15 October 2020 03: 22 New
    -1
    The strange position of the author - our technique is the best, and the rest came with slingshots. This is not a blow to the military-industrial complex, but they learn from such "wars". and modernize equipment.
  39. The comment was deleted.
  40. Old tanker
    Old tanker 15 October 2020 06: 55 New
    -1
    Article from the series: chef, everything is gone! And those have a relation to replicability.
  41. Zum
    Zum 15 October 2020 09: 35 New
    -1
    An article in the spirit of ..... "your husband is secretly visiting his mistress" .... why is this all ???
  42. svoit
    svoit 15 October 2020 13: 00 New
    0
    Quote: pexotinec
    Where did they get electronic warfare

    Also interested in the question, from where? I haven't read anything about purchases. How did the Repellent get there?
  43. JonnyT
    JonnyT 15 October 2020 14: 20 New
    0
    Hmm, even the author unreasonably buries the Russian military-industrial complex

    There is a 3 week of war, and Azerbaijan has almost run out of canyons, kharops and Syrian militants. They did not achieve much success.

    Then the grandmother said in two, if the sorosity hadn't kicked out the military officers who knew all the subtleties of the dictates of the battles in Karabakh, the result could have been different.
  44. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 15 October 2020 15: 48 New
    +2
    In general, I agree with everything, everything is so.

    Armenia ignored the threat in the form of attack UAVs, hoping that the old Osy-AKM and Sosny with MANPADS would eliminate this threat is too stupid, it was necessary to buy something more modern, the same Armor showed that they are able to withstand the UAVs of Turkey such as Bayraktarov and Anok, but Armenia did nothing.

    And in my opinion, in general, Pashinyan deliberately leaks Karabakh, he can openly refuse it, but that's so easy. The fact that the Bayraktars easily hit tanks and artillery is not their merit, it is the fault of the Armenian air defense system, first of all those persons who are responsible for its combat readiness and the purchase of new systems.

    But the blame, as the author correctly noted, will be the Russian military-industrial complex and Russia.
  45. Buka001
    Buka001 15 October 2020 18: 03 New
    -2
    I think, on the contrary, there is great benefit for the Russian military-industrial complex, because part of the fleet of old Soviet equipment has been sold, and this is better than scrapping. Lessons taken from the results of the battles, moreover, real, and not sucked from the finger. They already know in which direction to move the military-industrial complex, what to modernize and what to change. The fact that the Armenians do not have good training and they could not oppose anything to the latest weapons of the enemy is purely their fault. It was necessary to buy not the outdated "Wasp" but the newest "Thor" s, well, for example. To tanks and ATGMs, not to find fault, they do their job perfectly, but to artillery too. Everything works like a clock. It's just that Azerbaijan has spent a lot on the latest weapons, but Armenia does not, Soros hid it, and this is the result.
  46. sh3roman
    sh3roman 15 October 2020 18: 15 New
    0
    Judging by the controversy, especially the ones, our weapons still have no counterparts in the world and the surrounding area, but the losses of the Armenian side due to the fact that the Armenians are hands-on Papuans. Only in the last 20 years, and the slogans on TV, the leader of the Comanches, the collapse of the industry continued, and import substitution remained slogans. There are no wires of sockets, with self-tapping screws and hacksaws, and you are drones
  47. Artura
    Artura 15 October 2020 20: 03 New
    0
    The Artsakh army knocks down all these drones without any problems, if the author does not believe, let him go to Armenian sites and look there. Artsakh air defense was not destroyed. It's just that there are a lot of them (drone) and some of them break through the defense. 100% no one has air defense
  48. APASUS
    APASUS 15 October 2020 21: 18 New
    -1
    For our military-industrial complex, this conflict creates, first of all, a negative image. Not because the equipment is bad, but because the incompetent personnel, cannot use all the performance characteristics as intended.! There are tanks in the field ...............
  49. Volder
    Volder 16 October 2020 08: 48 New
    -1
    What kind of electronic warfare in Armenia? This is the first time I hear about them. MLRS systems, tanks, helicopters, S-300 air defense systems, "Osa" in Armenia are outdated and not modernized modifications. The Tochka-U OTRK has been removed from the arsenal of the Russian army, and is not produced or sold. In this regard, it is decidedly not clear why the author believes that the reputation of the Russian Federation will be tarnished and it will have to be restored.
  50. Seal
    Seal 16 October 2020 11: 10 New
    0
    Quote: Vasyan1971
    It was in this place that I began to laugh ... "Donate to Armenia" = donate to Pashinyan?
    And what prevented them from donating before Pashinyan's arrival ? The April War was in April 2016. Pashinyan came to power in May 2018.