"Time is running out": German press on the creation of a new military transport aircraft in Russia

The newest Russian military transport aircraft, the Il-112V, is approaching commissioning. The first production vehicles are to be delivered no later than three years later. At the same time, an increase in the terms of its creation can have an extremely negative effect on the combat potential of the military aviation.

The Il-112V is intended to replace the military heritage of the Antonov Design Bureau in Russia - veterans An-24 and An-26

- indicates the German edition of Flug Revue.

IL-112V is the first military transport aircraft, the development of which began only after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Time is running out as Soviet predecessors age. Therefore, in Russia, with great hope, the commissioning of a successor is expected

- the newspaper writes, noting that the start of serial deliveries is expected in 2023. At the same time, it is expected to achieve a production rate of 15 vehicles per year, which is planned to be deployed at facilities in Voronezh.

It is indicated that the Il-112V, military tests of which are planned to begin in 2021, will be in demand in foreign markets. There is also its civilian version - Il-112T. Both versions of the aircraft are capable of carrying about five tons of cargo. The aircraft's cargo hold can accommodate 44 fully equipped military personnel.

Comments

[Linxs]

... Time is running out

There is no more time for buildup.

[krot]

Both versions of the aircraft are capable of carrying about five tons of cargo.

He won't even take the BMP?

[venik]

Quote: krot

He won't even take the BMP?

=======
And what - lungs transport workers should also BMP tasakt? Did the An-26 take them? Or An-140? This is a task for secondary и heavy transport workers! In the lungs - others tasks!
PS By the way, with the average - we also have "seams"! An-12 has exhausted all its resources, but there is nothing to replace in such a class! IL-214/276 so far in the form of dreams and projects ...

[svp67]

Quote: krot

He won't even take the BMP?

Yeah ... And An-26 and 32 are so easy ... Do you even understand the place of the Il-112 in the ranks?
Apparently at the expense of the author of the German article ...

The Il-112V is intended to replace the military heritage of the Antonov Design Bureau - veterans An-24 and An-26 - in Russia, the German edition of Flug Revue indicates.

Well, the An-26 is no question here, but how will it replace the An-24? Is there a normal passenger version of this aircraft? No, the Il-24 is coming to replace the An-114

[krot]

Do you even understand the place of the Il-112 in the ranks?
Apparently at the expense of the author of the German article ...

I don't understand, that's why I asked my question. Or should everyone know about planes in your opinion? I'm not special.

[antivirus]

can carry sewer pipes? -It's already good, but Putin's military clique will be killed without BMP. the idea of ​​the world technical intelligence is great and difficult.

soon Musk will chase cargo with rockets for the Pentagon ..... and we are BMP- from a slingshot and catch them with trampolines.

[bonifacius]

You forgot to remember HYPERLOOPS Mask. Then planes and missiles will not be needed at all.

[antivirus]

there are already hyperloops on Mars - that's why the way there for earthlings is forbidden.

[pereselenec]

Quote: LinxS

There is no more time for buildup.

Yes, we urgently need a breakthrough (or, at worst, a breakthrough).

[Name Surname]

but for now we are breaking through the bottom more often))

[Interlocutor]

There is no more time for buildup.

Is there a war tomorrow ???

[210ox]

Yeah, woke up. She's already coming.

[antivirus]

She's already coming.


... twice ... and in turn with the launch of new iPhones

[rocket757]

You don't know what to say about this ... you need an airplane, that's all.

[silverwolf88]

Yes, yes ... our press also likes to speculate about the needs of the Western aviation industry ... and of course (there is no news here) an aircraft to replace the AN-26 was needed even "yesterday" ... the "ingenious" conclusion about the undesirability of delaying the deadline .. the authors are right here "giants of thought" ...

[Mountain shooter]

Eh, the designers ... it was necessary to overweight the relatively small aircraft so. Now they are frantically correcting mistakes, and the plant is standing still, waiting for new drawings ... they have already forgotten how expensive the mistakes of designers are! The work of designers should be appreciated, and "schools" (KB) should be preserved even more than even their own personal accounts (this is me for "effective managers")

[tanit]

Well, the first copy managed to reduce its weight by 800 kg in a year. Another 1200 kg must be "optimized".

[NDR-791]

Eh, the designers ... it was necessary to overweight the relatively small plane.
Where did the firewood come from? Really I can "passed by"? Once I watched about the IL-112 on TV. He seems to have no competitors with us. About KB and managers I will fully support

[donavi49]

Due to hellish problems with creation, a number of main nodes were incorrectly counted, as a result + 2m in design. Now they shoot as they can:

Russian Il-112V will "lose weight" by removing "minor structural elements"
The publication reports that the aircraft will "lose weight" by removing "the metal covers that cover the propulsion system, as well as metal fairings of the niche into which the aircraft landing gear folds."

And here is what the general designer said:
-This year, a serious question was raised that the aircraft does not meet the tactical and technical specifications - in particular, transportation of five tons at a distance of 1200 kilometers to a third-class airfield. The third class consists of rather short strips of 1500–1800 meters. Yes, we overweight the plane. There are objective reasons for this - a change of generations of designers has taken place in the aviation industry. Replenishment was weak, technical universities lost popularity... And a young specialist came to us, looked around, studied and went to the place where they pay more. So "Ilyushin" also became a forge of personnel. As Sergei Vladimirovich Ilyushin himself said, the most difficult task is to create a team and keep it. The "young" turns into a real specialist in five years. There are not enough of them, but we are trying to educate new employees in the Ilyushin spirit, so that people enter the work, and, most importantly, keep them at the firm. And salary plays a role. It's no secret that in 2010, when work on the Il-112 was stopped, our five departments stood up and switched to Irkut - they paid almost three times more. In a lot that's why we missed the weight problem... This issue was considered both with the military and at the level of the specialized Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Government. A comprehensive plan to reduce the weight of the aircraft was approved.

[Elturisto]

Stop criticizing already, he does not have enough specialists, but the sociologist Manturov, the producer Slyusar, the accountant Artyukhov (UEC) is that it is not personnel, these are excellent personnel, the people are not the same, this is already clear to everyone.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: NDR-791

Where did the firewood come from? Really I can "passed by"? Once I watched about the IL-112 on TV. He seems to have no competitors with us. About KB and managers I will fully support

The plane was "overweight" by almost 3 tons. And this is no good. In design, the cancer called "weight discipline" was lost, everyone "slightly" overweight their nodes, either they insured themselves, or they calculated the strength incorrectly (this is now automatically done, but the designer gives the initial parameters!) ...
The MO also "put a paw", then do, then do not, and the TK changed several times ...

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

The MO also "put a paw", then do, then do not, and the TK changed several times

+1
In addition to constantly sounding problems with personnel and money, there is also not so obvious, but no less important - the behavior of the state customer. Often, the state customer himself brings down the project for completely different reasons:
- I want it, I don’t want it;
- this is TK, then that;
- sometimes crying, sometimes not crying;
- then give me a product for the parade, then I will leave you without a penny for the time that was torn off for this reason.

Etc. etc.
All this, at least, increases the time and cost of the work. As a maximum, it completely rips them off and drowns the performer (often the only suitable performer in the country).

[K-612-O]

Well, according to the previous chief designer, at least they started a little business, how he stole on this development and deliberately delayed the deadlines, although still Soviet.

[Pravodel]

We need to appreciate the work of designers, and keep "schools" (KB) even more important than even our own personal accounts (this is me for "effective managers")

Add to this the elimination of the school of aircraft engine designers by efficient managers. What we suffer the most. The glider, sooner or later, will be brought to mind, but when the engine is created for it, this is a big, big question ... Thanks to the effective managers, they took care of Russia ... But the question is: when, finally, there will be a trial over these management and will it be, or will they continue to plunder Russia and harm the Fatherland ?! ...

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: The Truth

Add to this the elimination of effective managers of the school of aircraft engine designers

But here ... not quite so. Engines for civil aviation - it is necessary to clarify. But here it is more likely not a school, but a direction. When the task got upright, then the engines "went" ... And PD 14, and VK 2500 ... And there is another row on the way. Both very large (PD 35) and very small (VK 800) ...

[Elturisto]

It is not necessary to nonsense, - not one engine in 30 years of getting up ...

[Mountain shooter]

Rudeness is, of course, an argument ... Fortunately, not for everyone. But in essence? When the production of civil aviation was strangled, the customers of the engines for it also disappeared. Customers have appeared - and the engines have tightened up. Motors are needed for airplanes, not by themselves. Engines for fighters do, and have done, and will do. As well as bombers.

[Elturisto]

Shtaaaa ...? I don't see rudeness, it really hurts my eyes ... What is someone creating? They torment the Soviet Al-31 and also give the conscientious NK-32 as a newly produced one :)

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: ElTuristo

Al-31 and also give the conscientious NK-32 as a newly produced one :)

PD 14 is already being delivered. Of course, you haven't heard of AL 41? Well, about PD 8, VK 2500, VK 800 ... But it's easier to blather ...

[Elturisto]

Where the PD-14 is supplied for testing it is supplied. PD-8 is not and apparently will not be, VK-2500 is Ukrainian and previously Soviet TV-3, VK-800 was started by development back in the USSR

[shahor]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Motors are needed for airplanes, not by themselves.

That's how it is, but that's why it turns out that way - the Pentagon decided to change the engines in the B-52 - and then it turns out that the engine is already ready - now! And not one - and Royce offers his, and GE, and Pratny ... Choose - I don't want to. And we have a plane - and the engine is still sawing - at best.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: shahor

it turns out that the engine is already ready - now! And not one - and Royce offers his, and GE, and Pratny ... Choose - I don't want to. And we have a plane - and the engine is still sawing - at best

This is called MONOPOLY. The firms you mentioned "sawed" the whole world and produce lines of motors for aircraft, produced in large series. And in Russia for 30 years, no series. Well, how do aircraft designers design their aircraft? Which engine? So they design for what is offered on the market ... And the tasks of import substitution appear only after, and the terms of design and launch into a series are unrealistic, but it must be done!

[shahor]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

This is called MONOPOLY

Let me disagree. 3 firms from two countries in such a high-tech market is not a monopoly. This is competition and an incentive for development. And pay attention - they are investing in development. Import substitution?
I understand that it’s not from a good life, but we must understand that by inventing the PD-14 bicycle, an analogue of the not very recent Pratny engine, we doom ourselves to lag.
I agree - this is a necessary measure, but - the essence of the matter does not change from this. It's a shame.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: shahor

I understand that it’s not a good life, but we must understand that by reinventing the bicycle-PD-14, an analogue of the not very fresh Pratny engine, we doom ourselves to lag

If you were in the know, you would know that the PD-14 is an analogue of Pratt & Whitney only in the "traction class" ... The development is very modern, and very decent in terms of parameters. Permians are proud of her for a reason ...

[Elturisto]

Again nonsense -PS-90 who prevented the installation on the MS-21. Who prevented the purchase of Tu-204SM and Il-96?

[jncnfdybr]

That's it. Stop talking nonsense. You're right. Better keep quiet.))

[akarfoxhound]

The less efficiently the manager works, the better the country lives.

[Letun]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

(this is me "effective managers")

She will definitely read and obey you ...

[Rzzz]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

We need to appreciate the work of designers, and keep the "schools" (KB)

But here everything is not so simple. The design school must comply with modern trends. If you put your grandfathers to draw a modern plane, then they will draw it - with a fivefold safety factor, resistant to a nuclear explosion and made of Orthodox cast iron. They just don't know that technology is being designed differently now. About the fact that you can make some things out of plastic, calculate some exactly according to the current loads, and do it without unnecessary stocks. That electrical appliances are now more economical, and such thick wiring is not needed that a thousand different signals can be passed through one wire, that the wires can be aluminum and the pipelines are plastic.
In short, the design school must be modern. An aircraft created according to outdated concepts cannot be sold now. It was Andrei Nikolayevich who managed to sell his creations to the Soviet government contrary to all common sense, and now this trick will not work.

[Sergey_G_M]

We, too, are all concerned about the state of the armed forces of Germany, it is simply deplorable, and we are also worried about its political dependence. Let the Germans make their Armed Forces normal, the EU may collapse "time is running out."

[Glory1974]

It seems that this is being done on purpose to deprive us of aviation.
First, they abandoned our civilian airliners and began to fly on foreign used aircraft. Moreover, for this, Chernomyrdin even canceled import duties.
Then they piled a lot of money for a joint "superjet", which we ourselves cannot build and cannot sell to anyone without permission from the West.
The engine production was destroyed.
Now we have gradually approached military aviation.
The conclusion is unambiguous: for the United States, competitors are dangerous, which have high technologies in aircraft construction. Therefore, all occupied countries are deprived of the opportunity to make their own aircraft. Japan, Germany, now Russia.

[Elturisto]

very correct opinion ... so it is ...

[Revolver]

Quote: glory1974

Therefore, all occupied countries are deprived of the opportunity to make their own aircraft. Japan, Germany, now Russia.

The Japanese are slowly getting on their feet, even have a 5th generation fighter in development. Germany participates in the Airbus and Eurofighter programs, although the French rule there. But Russia is still up to the level of the USSR ... well, let's just say: grow and grow. And no occupants are to blame. Themselves, they themselves broke and destroyed.

[Rzzz]

In Germany there were also Dornier regionalists, quite decent, but could not stand the competition with ATR and Bombardier.
And back in the early 2000s there was a project of a very economical regionalist from the manufacturer of gliders GROB, all carbon fiber, with super efficient wings, etc. But the project stalled somewhere halfway through, although they promised that it would be a revolution.

[Zaurbek]

The funny thing is, in the history of the Il-112-114, that while they were swinging, the situation changed dramatically several times. Launching the An-140 (did not manage to do the transport option), licensing or assembling Bombardier here ..., shutting off the oxygen of the SSZH and MS for components due to sanctions ... And, in principle, at the exit - 1. anti-sanction , 2. An airplane with a ruble prime cost.
In fact, 114 and 112, no matter how scolded they are, will occupy the An-24-26-32 niche, because they are completely ruble-denominated and localized in the Russian Federation. And Ukraine, on the contrary, lost independence and cost in national currency (and this is important) in the production of An-24/26 (in the modern version).

[rocket757]

For too long it dawned on our people that they themselves would have to do EVERYTHING! From the engine to the last rivet!
When it was like this, we had our own aircraft industry ... and the planes were needed!

[Zaurbek]

Under normal circumstances, this is not always good for commercial aircraft. Even now, Ilam could do two versions of avionics and theaters. For export (and commercial) cars, there must be a choice. Monopolization in these conditions is harmful. As a result, theater manufacturers will monopolistically set terms and prices for repairs and sales that are comparable with American prices, but not with their terms and quality.
Such situations arose with the Tu204 and PS-90.

[rocket757]

It is clear that when there is a choice of a manufacturer and a suitable nomenclature, the client can order his own configuration! But, now just commercial interests, everything is not limited! Political affairs, intrigues interfere !!! And there is no way to predict them, all the more difficult to overcome.
Now that has already become an "old rake", which is foolish to step on again and again!

[Zaurbek]

What I mean is that commercial exploitation imposes rather severe restrictions on the machine-consumption, resource-service. And, God forbid, our producers will reach Western indicators in this.
And commercial deliveries of cars, in turn, reduce the cost of developing and manufacturing cars for government. goals. M make pilots cheaper for cars.
And, in general, the latest world trends - civilian vehicles go to the "army", and not vice versa.
B-737 is an example of this.

[Elturisto]

No need to talk nonsense ...

[Elturisto]

Do not talk nonsense. Are there figures about monopoly inflated prices? Or do you think foreign companies? They have already monopolized the production of aircraft engines and break prices at 15 million dollars. There have already been cases of scammers from the Americans in the Il-96 m / t and Mi-38 projects, but the rake exists so that they would be stepped on twice, we look at the MS-21.

[Elturisto]

Who is ours? Is Poghosyan yours?

[Rzzz]

Quote: rocket757

that you yourself will have to do EVERYTHING! From the engine to the last rivet!

But this, on the other hand, is the most difficult path. After all, if we manufacture everything of our own, then we must provide all aircraft buyers with spare parts and service. Okay, well with the motors, this is practically the same TV3-117 from a helicopter, they can be repaired in many places in the world. And everything else, all the auxiliary units, avionics?
The superjet stood at the Mexicans three months due to a burned out wiper motor. How is this even possible? The company suffered millions in losses due to the fact that our managers were unable to ensure the supply of a penny spare part. Naturally, with such a service, they will not buy anything from us. Airbus, as I read, promises to deliver any spare part from the catalog within XNUMX hours to any of its regional service centers in the world.
So it is not an aircraft that should be sold, but an integral airplane + service complex. It is for such a product that there is now a demand, just iron is not needed by anyone.

[rocket757]

Shaw here to discuss .... the old rake, stamped, stamped and will continue to stamp.

[K-612-O]

I will also remind you that we went on time with a license for the L-410, also the desired plane

[Zaurbek]

Not even with a license ... they bought the Airways ...

[Reviews]

Quote: Zaurbek

Not even with a license ... they bought the Airways ...

Fuck what an insidious move: in order to get hold of the L-410, we bought "Aerospace ducts" ...

[Rzzz]

In the world of modern business, this is a fairly common move when a company is bought in order to obtain its rights, patents, licenses, and other intangible property. This is sometimes even cheaper and easier.

[Reviews]

Quote: rzzz

In the world of modern business, this is a fairly common move when a company is bought in order to obtain its rights, patents, licenses, and other intangible property. This is sometimes even cheaper and easier.

I mean that L-410 is "Years".

[Rzzz]

Oh, exactly. I didn't pay attention.

[Elturisto]

what a license-screwdriver, all imported :)

[Maks1995]

Ha. They write about some Germans.
And about the Rogozins - no, no ..

[slipped]

Quote: Max1995

Ha. They write about some Germans.
And about the Rogozins - no, no ..

Duc, what's the problem? The elder has just launched a new Soyuz MS to the ISS:

[Maks1995]

Tse is not bad. I missed it.

But nat about Il, and there the younger was leading.

[slipped]

Quote: Max1995

Tse is not bad. I missed it.

But nat about Il, and there the younger was leading.

The younger one released the IL-112 on its first flight then. Then several events happened - the runway of the Voronezh plant got underway for reconstruction, according to the results of various tests, the aircraft began to be finished to condition. Now the first stage of the strip reconstruction has been completed:



The engines on the Il-112 were already driven on static, flights are coming soon.

[tanit]

[Quote] Tse is not bad. I missed it.

But nat about Il, and there the junior led. [Quote]
Perhaps they are waiting for the docking.
Perhaps, they are feverishly remaking an article about "the difficult fate of polymers and Roscosmos."

[slipped]

Everything is fine there with the docking, in 3 hours and 3 minutes we got there, the record was set, judging by the cheerful voice of Ryzhikov on board, everyone is happy.

[tanit]

Everything is good there with the docking

Well, yes, before the calculated one.))

[K-612-O]

Let's start with the fact that Talikov led (a criminal case of fraud and embezzlement), and Rogozin just came to rake Talikov's shoals. And by the way, he has been working with Avicia since the age of 11, seriously and tightly.

[Vladimir Mashkov]

So many conversations ... And I want to quickly see the SERIAL aircraft in operation. Anyone else, but I really like this cute airplane!

[senima56]

"Not later than in three years, the first production cars should be delivered" ... What kind of postponement is this?

[Pavel57]

Quote: Interlocutor

Is there a war tomorrow ???

You need to arm yourself in peacetime.

[Kaw]

As far as I understand, it is inferior in its characteristics to the An-26?

[fa2998]

Quote: NDR-791

He seems to have no competitors with us.

And where are the competitors, to hell, if in this country they haven't made a transport worker for 50 years. Pomnitsa in the 80s, there was an An-225, heavyweight, but died as the Ukrainian aviation industry. The rest has been flying since 60-70s.

[Prisoner]

The share of "effective managers" is heavy. You have to do two things at the same time. And the apparatus must be riveted, and the "grandmother" cut down so that the SC is not interested. It takes a lot of time. It used to be easier to protect your developments, get the go-ahead and rivet the apparatus. Or am I confusing something?

[Alexfly]

They screwed up the AN-70 at one time, now there are no suitable transport workers ... We did not agree on kickbacks, but there were still enough petrodollars ...

[alien308]

I marvel at the alternatively oriented. You need to fly or checkers. There are An-26 and An-12. There are drawings, at least operational. Reproduce on modern materials, components and assemblies. Improve range, reduce weight, lick aerodynamics. Only on this you cannot raise much. And the technical task must be set correctly.

[Nazar]

alien308 - IL114 also has blueprints, it was mass-produced in Uzbekistan (!), but in the Russian Federation it has been puffing up for many years and that's all - nothing. They are going to release IL112 in Voronezh - only is there anyone there to do it? Who and what is left of that plant?

[alien308]

"IL114 also has drawings, it was serially produced in Uzbekistan (!)"
can be more? Maybe another car with the same index.

[Rzzz]

Quote: alien308

can be more? Maybe another car with the same index.

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%BB-114
In the 90s, at the end of the work of TAPOiCH, 20 were built.

[alien308]

IL-114 - passenger. They tried to make an Il-112 out of it. I'm confusing too :)

[nnz226]

What a sadness to the Germans from this plane ?! Tea, not a new strategic bomber make ...

[garik77]

It looks like Antonov designers and engineers were taken to the Russian Federation

[ermak124.0]

m l i .., three (!) years ....!

[Russian2020]

Who is there again what is pressing, the Germans were not asked at all