"Ensuring peace in the Black Sea-Azov region": Ukraine and Turkey will sign a military agreement

Ukrainian Defense Minister Andriy Taran made a statement that the draft Ukrainian-Turkish military agreement was approved.
According to Taran, this document is planned to be signed during the visit of President Vladimir Zelensky to Turkey. The trip is scheduled for October 15th. Zelensky's visit will last three days.

Andriy Taran said that the Ukrainian-Turkish agreement will create "the necessary legal basis for long-term cooperation between the two countries in the field of defense."

In this cooperation, according to the head of the defense department of Ukraine, more than two dozen "fundamentally new directions" will additionally be present. Taran did not say what specific directions it was.

Meanwhile, Ukrainian experts say that among the areas of cooperation are interaction between the Ukrainian and Turkish navies in the Black Sea, as well as training and advanced training of Ukrainian servicemen at Turkish military bases "according to NATO standards." What Turkish "NATO standards" are meant - training of militants and their transfer to conflict zones?

Ram:

The new treaty will reflect the strategic nature of the partnership and mutual commitment to ensuring peace in the Black Sea-Azov region.

According to the Minister of Defense of Ukraine, such an agreement will help both countries to strengthen "regional security."

Comments

[Same lech]

Let's see what they sign there ... and so all this fuss clearly fits into the creation of hotbeds of tension on the borders of Russia ... the Turks can supply their drones to Svidomo ... what will follow in the LPR is not difficult to predict.

[Insurgent]

"Ensuring peace in the Black Sea-Azov region": Ukraine and Turkey will sign a military agreement

Ukrainian experts say that among the areas of cooperation is the interaction of the Ukrainian and Turkish navies on the Black Sea

Obviously, there are intentions to divide the spheres of influence in the Black Sea, and of course without taking into account the "third force" - Russia and its Black Sea Fleet ...

[hydrox]

The most interesting thing is that the entire chapter on the access of Turks to the Sea of ​​Azov will be boldly crossed out with a red felt-tip pen

[paul3390]

And on this occasion, let us sell the latest weapons to the Turks, send an extra couple of million tourists, build another nuclear power plant for free? After all, this is what our native guarantor is doing in response to all the Ottoman mischief?

[Insurgent]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Turks can supply their drones to Svidomo ... it is not difficult to predict what will follow in the LPNR.

The Outskirts had 6 Bayraktars and 2 control stations. I write "it was" because they successfully crashed one UAV during training.
But now they have intentions to receive up to 46 UAVs from Turkey.
And in the context of all this unmanned hype, it is important to note that Zaporozhye aircraft engine plants are actively involved in the Bayraktar production program, and a joint heavy strike UAV is being developed ...

[Same lech]

it is important to note that the aircraft engine factories of Zaporozhye are actively involved in the production program of "Bayraktars" and a joint heavy strike UAV is being developed ...

Presumably svidomye intend to use the experience of the war in Nagorno-Karabakh in an attack on the LPR ... is the LPR army ready for such a scenario of war?

[Insurgent]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Presumably svidomye intend to use the experience of the war in Nagorno-Karabakh in an attack on the LPR ... is the LPR army ready for such a scenario of war?

According to the information I have, we, alas, are not ready for the massive and competent use of UAVs.

Of the entire air defense arsenal, we have the original without modernization "OSA-AKM", the same "Strela 10" and an arsenal of various MANPADS.

There are apparently a number of electronic warfare units, information on which is of course closed, and there remains confidence-hope for the firmness of Putin's words that in the event of an attempt to resolve the conflict by force, the Outskirts will cease to exist ...

[Same lech]

and there remains confidence-hope for the firmness of Putin's words

It's bad ... suddenly Putin will change his mind ... he is still a politician ... and you have nothing in this case to protect yourself from a massive raid of attack drones.

[Interlocutor]

Yes Yes . We will all die .. Of course.
"Massive use of UAVs"

[Same lech]

Yes Yes . We will all die .. Of course.
"Massive use of UAVs"

We will die of course ... if we do nothing. Yugoslavia died after the massive use of NATO aircraft ... and we are still in 1941 because of the frivolous attitude towards the enemy.

[Dikson]

We must assume that Sevastopol and Crimea as a whole should also prepare .. Talking about the collapse of the aircraft and missile industry in Ukraine is one thing, but the possibility of joint production or screwdriver assembly of the same Israeli or Turkish UAVs is another ..

[businessv]

Quote: Dikson

We must assume that Sevastopol and Crimea as a whole should also prepare.

Ready for a long time!

[Seaflame]

For Sevastopol and Crimea, you can be calm (which does not negate the importance of having developed air defense, electronic warfare, BRAV, and naval ships there). But for Donbass it is much more alarming. Erdogan is finally getting impudent, it is high time to put the bastard in place.

[CSKA]

Quote: Insurgent

But now they have intentions to receive up to 46 UAVs from Turkey.

It seems that someone wrote that the cost of one bayraktar is 30-40 million. It turns out that they then need almost 2 billion dollars. Where will they find them interesting ?! But in general, this is not good. We have only the Strela-10 air defense system and the Osa air defense system, plus MANPADS. As the recent battles in NK have shown, these are not very effective complexes.

[Holgerton]

The cost of one Baytraktar TB2 is estimated at ~ $ 5-6 million, but a control station for 3 UAVs costs more - ~ $ 16-18 million. And in light of the fact that Ukaina will receive a localized version, in exchange for the localization of its ATGMs in Turkey, the cost will clearly not amount to $ 2 billion, as you indicated, according to recent information, the deal has already taken place.
Turkey has generally settled well over the past decade.

[CSKA]

Quote: Holgerton

the cost of one Baytraktar TB2 is estimated at ~ $ 5-6 million

Are you saying that the cost is less than a tank?

[Holgerton]

Only the AMX-5 Leclerc and K6 cost $ 56-2 million, and perhaps the latest modifications of the Leopard 2, if you measure the cost of a tank according to the most expensive models, then there are even air defense systems and OTRK steam SPUs, which cost less than a tank.
Are you so surprised at the price of one UAV? There is not something super-expensive, not the most powerful engine, not the most expensive glider, except that the OELS and control system are quite advanced, but even they cannot raise the cost one UAVs up to $ 30-40 million.
Most likely you accepted the cost of one complex (1 control station, 3 UAVs) for the cost of one UAV.

[Oquzyurd]

For the Turkish army, Bayraktar TV2 costs about $ 3 million.

[maktub]

Localization in Ukraine will reduce the cost by up to 30%, and it is also allowed to make changes to the UAV project

[Insurgent]

Quote: CSKA

the cost of one bayraktar is 30-40 million. It then turns out that they need almost 2 billion dollars. Where will they get them interesting?

On credit, everything on credit ...

Quote: CSKA

We have only the Strela-10 air defense system and the Osa air defense system, plus MANPADS. As the recent battles in NK have shown, these are not very effective complexes.

As additional information for thought, there is evidence that in 2017-18 the Outskirts had intentions to purchase kamikaze drones from Poland.
To what extent were these intentions realized then, and whether the ex-Ukraine has such UAVs -

[Holgerton]

And when was this UAV lost? Do you have a link to any photo / video confirmation?
Not to reproach you, just for the sake of interest, since I did not find it on LostArmour, but there is no information on the network.

[venik]

Quote: Insurgent

And in the context of all this unmanned hype, it is important to note that Zaporozhye aircraft engine plants are actively involved in the Bayraktar production program, and a joint heavy strike UAV is being developed ...

========
And what aircraft engine factories are there in Zaporozhye besides Motor Sich? And that's as far as is known by small DVZ not involved - only with turbines!

[Insurgent]

Quote: venik

And what aircraft engine factories are there in Zaporozhye besides Motor Sich?

At least from large - SE "ZAPOROZHYE MACHINE-BUILDING DESIGN BUREAU" PROGRESS "NAMED AFTER ACADEMICIAN A.G. IVCHENKO.
Plus small subcontractors.

[venik]

Quote: Insurgent

SE "ZAPOROZHYE MACHINE-BUILDING DESIGN BUREAU" PROGRESS "NAMED AFTER ACADEMICIAN A.G. IVCHENKO.

========
This is just the Design Bureau of the Progress plant (collectively, it was called NPO Progress)! Just in the course of "privatization" they were divided into two legal entities: the design bureau remained state-owned, and the plant was "privatized" and renamed into "Motor Sich". And so - they are even in one place and are located (although there seem to be several sites). A friend of mine worked at KB Progress (now retired).
---------

Quote: Insurgent

Plus small subcontractors.

========
And what is it serious do these "subcontractors" produce? WHICH of them can be considered an "aircraft engine" enterprise?

[Insurgent]

Quote: venik

And what are these "subcontractors" doing so serious?

You formulate questions so sarcastically that it seems that you want to "catch" me on something ...
On what basis do you, I wonder, do not believe me that a number of enterprises in Zaporozhye are in contact and cooperate in cooperation with the Turks in the field of UAV creation?

Ukraine delivers 12 engines to Turkey for heavy attack UAVs Akinci


And the engine for "Akinci" - Ivchenko ...

[venik]

Quote: Insurgent

You formulate questions so sarcastically that it seems that you want to "catch" me on something ...

=========
Yes, I don't want to catch you on anything! There (in Zaporozhye) there is only Motor Sich (serial production) and its design bureau Ivchenko-Progress (with its own experimental semi-artisanal production). And these engines are AI-450 (turboprops, by the way) designed for helicopters (Ka-226), God knows when. They were abandoned, now they decided to add the UAV to the "heavyweight"! Not a good idea .....

[businessv]

Quote: venik

This is just the Design Bureau of the Progress plant

Any design bureau has an experienced mech. a platform whose duties include the execution of KB wishes made in hardware. I don't think that Motorsich's power will be needed for the assembly of UAVs, because the Turks need the products of this enterprise, the turbines, the manufacture of which was put on stream there, and not the manufacture of low-tech internal combustion engines for their Bayraktars.

[venik]

Quote: businessv

Any design bureau has an experienced mech. a platform whose duties include the execution of KB wishes made in hardware.

=======
Here I am about the same! I know what a "pilot production" at a design bureau is! They can do EVERYTHING there! (Well, or almost "everything"). But to establish a "series" there ...

Quote: businessv

I don't think that Motorsich's power will be needed for the assembly of UAVs, because the Turks need the products of this enterprise, the turbines, the manufacture of which was put on stream there, and not the manufacture of low-tech internal combustion engines for their Bayraktars.

======
In addition, neither the Ivchenko-Progress design bureau nor Motor Sich have either design experience or ICE production technologies - they develop and produce only turbines - and this is absolutely different things!

[Crabong]

And there is nothing to predict. Have to fight. That the Turks, that these shit and shit ... It was necessary in the 14th still to slap on the head, and to put the base ...

[samarin1969]

ABOUT! The Russian Federation has a new "brother" - "an ally! And also a transit state. We are waiting for warm handshakes with Zelensky.

[Same lech]

Yeah ... the photo is remarkable ... An attempt to combine the interests of Iran, Russia and Turkey in one handshake ... is doomed to failure ... these states have too different goals.

[NDR-791]

No need, we'll stand aside for now. It seems like Iran launched a missile and artillery strike on Azerbaijan in response to constant border violations. I have not found an exact confirmation yet, but infa appeared last night.

[PSih2097]

Quote: NDR-791

No need, we'll stand aside for now. It seems like Iran launched a missile and artillery strike on Azerbaijan in response to constant border violations. I have not found an exact confirmation yet, but infa appeared last night.

"The air defense of Iran discovered and shot down an Azerbaijani strike UAV of Israeli production IAI Harop in the morning," Re: public of Artsakh reported on Telegram.

 Show / Hide text

https://avia.pro/news/iran-nanyos-moshchnye-udary-po-territorii-azerbaydzhana-sorvav-nastuplenie-na-karabah

[Same lech]

Lost to see.

[Insurgent]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Lost to see.

Or he deliberately crossed the border in order to strike at the enemy (NKR positions or equipment) from an unexpected side ...

It is noteworthy that this is written about in LJ Colonel Cassad:

The Iranian air defense system overwhelmed the Israeli "Harop" UAV, which was used by the Azerbaijani army in Nagorno-Karabakh.
The UAV flew into Iranian airspace and was immediately shot down. The car fell on the territory of Iran and, accordingly, fell into the hands of the Iranians, who, in theory, can use the wreckage to study Israeli technologies for the production of kamikaze UAVs. Perhaps something useful for the Iranian UAV-kamikaze program will be recognized. In this regard, the Iranians very zealously select everything that they can get from other people's technologies and include what they have obtained in their national UAV development program, which is largely built around the creative copying and refinement of other people's technologies, which is actually allows Iran to be among the leaders in the development of military UAVs.

The last lines about Iran's successes in the development of UAVs hit hard.

And Russia ?

[Dikson]

Is this a kamikaze? Why should he fornicate? Maybe under the guise of wanting to cover something in Iran at the border?

[NDR-791]

About the UAV yesterday's infa. Or another one flew in. About art, too. https://yandex.ru/news/story/Republic_of_Artsakh_Iran_vpervye_nanes_udary_po_territorii_Azerbajdzhana--f12f5bca1ffe62af6052cf0c296f87d3?

[Petro_tut]

UAVs of Israeli production IAI Harop ",

So he is Israeli, he is allergic to Iran, saw the Iranian flag, the program worked and flew to bomb

[CSKA]

Quote: samarin1969

The Russian Federation has a new "brother" - "an ally!

The fact that one president shook hands with another and that Turkey is our trading partner does not mean that they are becoming our allies.

[maktub]

You are already removing sanctions from three enterprises

[parusnik]

Russia needs to join this agreement ..

[Insurgent]

Quote: parusnik

Russia needs to join this agreement ..

In Sinop ...

[parusnik]

The S-400 has been delivered, the gas pipeline has been installed, the nuclear power plant is being completed, and more cheap Turkish goods are in Syria, we are patrolling together. Russia-Turkey are sisters forever. A military agreement to ensure peace in the Black Sea-Azov region would not hurt. And you are Sinop.

[Insurgent]

Quote: parusnik

In Syria, we patrol together.

That's what, and "joint patrols"the territory of the SAR, squeezed by Turkey, and which has become significant help Russian diplomacy, impressed by many .

It is obvious that, not least of all, the leadership of Syria, which at the moment is de facto faced with the prospect of a war with Turkey for its territories ...

[ioan-e]

Quote: parusnik

join..

You somehow completely incorrectly wrote the word "lead"

[hydrox]

Yesterday's very strong blow to the Turks (barmaley?) In the Azeri territory suggests that the correct understanding of our general policy is available, incl. and Turkey's non-inclusion in the NKR negotiating team (that's right, we will sort it out on our post-Soviet territory ourselves).
Now I would not lose it ...

[figwam]

training and advanced training of Ukrainian military personnel at Turkish military bases

A disgrace, they have already fallen under the Turks.

[Insurgent]

Quote: figvam

A disgrace, they have already fallen under the Turks.

And sho them, get used to?

[nnm]

Mnogostanochniki, seer!
A country with low social responsibility went from hand to hand ... and not only.

[parusnik]

They are multi-stationers, but who are we? After the delivery of the S-400, the construction of a gas pipeline, a nuclear power plant, a joint patrol in Syria, an abandoned bride after their wedding night, or all of the above, just business and nothing personal?

[nnm]

Well, for us it is at least financially beneficial. And what does this give Ukraine?

[parusnik]

Well, for us it is at least financially beneficial.

... as in a joke: there are three women with low social responsibility in the house, but there is nothing to eat ...

And what does this give Ukraine?

... For free, for preferences .. But we, for financial gain .. And it turns out, they are multi-station, free, and we are only for the currency .. What's the difference ..? Turkey has two Natasha, one is free, the other is paid ..

[nnm]

Sorry, but somehow you are illogical .... how can you compare the situation when non-brothers "lay down and ask" and ordinary trade. Thus, any country is "Natasha" for someone. Turkey - for its tomatoes and tourism - "Natasha", etc.

[parusnik]

Possibly. But this agreement is directed against Russia. Okay, Ukraine we have a war with her, to which Russia is not ... But Turkey, which we supply high-tech equipment, as written below (fig (Sergey)) and what I indicated above. .And it turns out, we are developing the Turkish economy, so that it would conclude agreements against Russia .. It is clear, Ukraine is multi-station, and then who are we in this case? Business and nothing personal?

[nnm]

But in this case, the same is true in our direction - we receive money for the development of our economy, plus we add Turkey to service by our specialists ...

[parusnik]

And in response, a military agreement directed against Russia ... Several years ago, when relations between Russia and Turkey reached their peak, many also wrote how NATO would fall apart, how Turkey would be accepted by the CSTO, like Turkey, on the hook from Russia, they wrote a lot of joy. ..Yeah .. and when relations reach a crisis, and this will happen .. recall the specialists, turn off the nuclear power plant, cut off the gas, stop buying tomatoes .. And Turkey, paws to the top .. and "Vanya, I am yours forever" (c)

[nnm]

Well, what are you just writing about Turkey then? The USA, the EU, etc. - and they imposed sanctions on us, and we are at war with them in third countries - and nothing, and they trade with us perfectly, and we are with them.

[parusnik]

Turkey is closer to me, I live in the Azov-Black Sea region. And then an article about the Turkish-Ukrainian agreement, and not the Ukrainian-American agreement or another about ensuring security in the Azov-Black Sea region. Oh, just don't talk about sanctions ... because of the sanctions, the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.

[Petro_tut]

Turkey has two "Natasha", one free, the second paid.

Amendment, the second gives on credit

[Dikson]

What does it bring us, forgive me ?? The gas pipeline was built at their own expense, so it is empty ...) Turkish refineries do not want to take our fuel for processing .. We are building a nuclear power plant .. joint patrols in Syria .. In Dagestan and Chechnya, joint patrols would not have to be carried out .. - your friend , Erdogan, Barmaleev has already given a ride .. financial benefit .. well, of course .. the amount of payments to widows is much less than the money received from "friendship" with the Turks ..

[figwam]

Quote: parusnik

They are multi-stationers, but who are we?

You are confusing something, Turkey buys high-tech equipment from us, which it cannot create and produce.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: parusnik

a power plant, a patrolling joint in Syria, an abandoned bride after their wedding night, or all of the above, just business and nothing personal?

Yes, and a bus in Ankara with Turkish pilots on February 17, 2016. 26 dead, including 24 pilots, one of them, (according to rumors) the one who knocked down our dryer ... either the Kurds or the Islamists ... yeah ... about "... they won't get off with tomatoes ... "does everyone remember? Forgot? And the Turks DIDN'T FORGET ... Well, not everything is as simple as it seems at first glance. They (the Turks) will all try Russia from all sides to the teeth ... And Russia will also ... try. Are we going to use in our "analyzes" the fact that the media is implanted in our brain?

[Essex62]

The legend of the beautiful knights who give a turnover. Kurds, and who else. Do you accuse the Russian authorities of terrorism?

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Essex62

Kurds, and who else. Do you accuse the Russian authorities of terrorism?

God forbid ... Not a single thought! There were still not enough Putin's business cards at the blast site ...

[Essex62]

That's right. Although they have a bus in tatters, that a beginner in murloanal, everything is one. Sanctions, sanctions, sanctions.

[hydrox]

And what is especially bad you see?
The nuclear power plant is frozen, the Potok is empty, the Sultan has been pushed away from the negotiations on the Caucasus, we will hardly let him into the Sea of ​​Azov, the allocation of land in the Crimea has practically ceased, his demands on the NKR have been ignored - so we'll take a look.

[aszzz888]

Ukraine and Turkey will sign a military agreement

Two boots - a pair ... on one leg.

[Dimonst]

The appetites of the Turkish "partners" are growing and progressing. Alas, this is upsetting. Such rates..

[Insurgent]

Quote: DimonSt

The appetites of the Turkish "partners" are growing and progressing. Alas, this is upsetting. Such rates..

Alas, there is no Count Suvorov.

[iouris]

Quote: Insurgent

Alas, there is no Count Suvorov.

Is Catherine II straight?

[Insurgent]

Quote: iouris

Is Catherine II straight?

These words were spoken by Suvorov already under Paul I ...

[askort154]

The new treaty will reflect the strategic nature of the partnership and mutual commitment to ensuring peace in the Black Sea-Azov region.

The Montreux Convection, adopted by the UN in 1936 and updated in 1994, does not contain
definitions - "Black Sea-Azov region". There is a "Black Sea region" with a specific listing of countries. The definition of "Black Sea-Azov" was invented by Ukraine and persistently voiced it at all sites in order to lure NATO members into the Sea of ​​Azov. Turkey is interested in this itself, and is attracting Ukraine to this.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: askort154

Turkey is interested in this itself, and is attracting Ukraine to this.

Are Ukrainian leaders stupid and incurious? Turkey that gave up its territories of the former type of Odessa and Nikolaev regions?

[maktub]

Forgotten Crimea?

[Pavel57]

Preparing for the next Crimean War?

[PSih2097]

Quote: Pavel57

Preparing for the next Crimean War?

no, the Black Sea is too small for a war, and to meddle there during military operations is pure suicide (at the present time, when It is being shot up and down) ...

[cniza]

Quote: Pavel57

Preparing for the next Crimean War?

Erdogan has many plans for both Caucasian and Balkan ...

[Ros 56]

I don’t think we don’t have the time and opportunity to pull such a strap, there must be a very short and powerful action.

[cniza]

You propose to eliminate Erdogan, I mean from the authorities, and who will come?

[Ros 56]

Why, he just needs to create a lot of problems in the domestic political field, so that he does not know what to grab onto.

[cniza]

Yes, he has enough of them, but he manages everywhere, but it would not be bad to strangle economically ...

[Keyser soze]

The Turks have excellent relations with Ukraine, Georgia, with Azerbaijan and, in general, took over the command in full. This is not a bell .... it sounds like a bell.

[donavi49]

And also with Pakistan (main partner in military-technical cooperation), Qatar and Indonesia

[cniza]

This is really already an alarm bell, but Erdogan is pursuing his interests and Ukraine, Georgia and Azerbaijan will not like them very much when Turkey designates them.

[Keyser soze]

Erdogan pursues his own interests and Ukraine, Georgia and Azerbaijan will not like them very much when Turkey identifies them.

This is 100%. The existence, today, of Georgia and Armenia depends only on Moscow. The Turks will tear them apart and cut them out to the maximum. And then they will look to the North. So you won't like it either.

[cniza]

If we remain silent and do not stop Erdogan, you are also next in line, and maybe even before us ...

[Keyser soze]

If we remain silent and do not stop Erdogan, you are also next in line, and maybe even before us ...

Oh yeah. There are no illusions on this. In a conversation with Pavlos here, I hoped that our governments see it. We and the Greeks have two useful moves - arm themselves to the teeth (both countries are already doing this) and revive the Balkan Union - Bulgaria, Greece, Serbia. I don't really believe in NATO.

[V1er]

Take Russia to the Balkan Union We will reap the Turks together) And then maybe Poland will be divided again)

[Keyser soze]

Take Russia to the Balkan Union laughing Let's reap the Turks together)

When you become a RF Prize, and I - Bulgaria, we will find a common language in 4 milliseconds. Until then, we are ruled by narrow-minded types, and you have such preoccupied ones and nothing can be done ...

[Essex62]

Money rules both you and us. They have their own priorities and their own rationality. That to a normal person it seems logical and correct for a "fat cat" is wild. They are guided by the interests of their own power and wanted to spit on the interests of the nation. You won't do anything, even when you become prime minister.

[cniza]

Quote: Keyser Soze

I don't really believe in NATO.

This is correct, especially since Turkey is there ...

[cniza]

"Ensuring peace in the Black Sea-Azov region": Ukraine and Turkey will sign a military agreement

No, Erdogan will not calm down so easily, he will grind until you stop him ...

[iouris]

"Agreement" can only be that the South of the former Russian Empire is Turkey.

[Adimius38]

And you buy more Turkish tomatoes, Vladimir Vladimirovich. The NATO country, which insolently climbed into the zone of Russian interests, is now not going to grow flowers at our southern gates, but to create another hotbed of tension.

[Diviz]

Don't know why we are playing this Trojan horse. There is no clear position within the country on this anacon
de. We turned on the satellites and we look and someone comes and the switch turns off the power.

[Rage66]

The Turks are overestimating their strength ... Syria, Libya, Karabakh ...
I generally keep quiet about my Kurds ...

[Butchcassidy]

Rare banter. "Ukraine and Turkey" and "Peacekeeping" are an oxymoron.

[svoit]

Quote: CSKA

Where will they get them interesting?

So Gazprom will pay and even stay