Military Review

SPA "Poseidon" / "Status-6". To the detriment of real defenses

215

Behind the shaft News military and political topics have almost lost their "top" events on the underwater system "Status-6" / "Poseidon". At the same time, the large-scale development of budget funds to satisfy scientific curiosity by a group of interested persons continues, and at the expense of the country's defense capability.


Money going nowhere


The fleet has already lost two multipurpose nuclear submarines on this. The same "Belgorod" had every chance to strike at ISIS (prohibited in Russia) in Syria with its 72+ cruise missiles (subject to modernization according to Project 949AM).

Today we have in service (in the Aerospace Forces) only 5 (five) relatively modern AWACS aircraft, and even fewer 5th generation fighters. Actual rates of new procurement programs aviation weapons are demonstrated by official footage of exercises with the massive use of the Soviet reserve weapons (already pretty outdated and out of date for a long time beyond the assigned terms of technical suitability). We have a lot of real and serious problems in the country's defense capability, for the solution of which there was a chronic lack of funds. Now sequestration has been added to this ...

From the latest news:

In 2021, 486,1 billion rubles will be allocated for scientific research and development of civilian use, follows from the explanatory note to the draft federal budget for the next three years. This is 6,3% (or 32,8 billion rubles) less than it was planned at the end of 2019 when the previous budget was approved. “Changes in budget allocations for state programs have occurred in accordance with the general approaches to ensuring the balance of the federal budget,” the press service of the Russian Ministry of Finance said in response to a request from RBC about the reasons for the reduction in funding for “research” areas.

It should be emphasized that this reduction (and without that modest costs) is including research and dual-use technologies, which both directly and indirectly concerns the country's defense capability. Moreover, it is necessary to honestly understand that since the end of the 2000s. Our Ministry of Defense has discovered such a source of "saving" financial resources as the maximum transfer of research topics (R&D) from the "diocese" (and funding) of the Ministry of Defense to outside organizations. This "economy" (yes, in quotes) is not even saving on matches, it is a stranglehold around the neck of promising weapons!

Even in the most difficult 90s, when the Ministry of Defense was cutting a lot for the living, they tried to preserve promising research projects as much as possible. As a matter of fact, this allowed today to bring a number of breakthrough weapons systems. However, now the Ministry of Defense in terms of perspective and science is held hostage by the Ministry of Industry and Trade, the Academy of Sciences (and a number of other organizations). There are simply critical technologies (for example, mass highly efficient power supplies based on domestic raw materials), but they are “optimized” to zero from year to year.

At the same time, something happens next that cannot be called anything other than a feast during the plague:

June 26, 2019 / TASS /. The first carrier of the Poseidon deep-sea unmanned vehicles, the special-purpose nuclear submarine (NPS) Belgorod, will enter the factory sea trials approximately in April 2020. This was reported to TASS by a source in the military-industrial complex on Wednesday during the Army-2019 International Military-Technical Forum.
"The boat will enter the factory sea trials approximately in April 2020, as soon as the ice conditions in the White Sea allow," he said. According to him, “at the end of the same year it is planned to transfer“ Belgorod ” the fleet».

As a matter of fact, this "information message" (also in quotation marks) is a clear illustration of all the lies under the "Status-6" program. After all, the fact that the announced terms of work on the "Status" and its carriers would be disrupted (and significantly disrupted) was clear long before the COVID-19 pandemic.

Accordingly, all applications for the admission of the Navy "Belgorod" at the end of 2020 " and so on had the "value" of the trash can level beforehand. There is only one question about the alleged readiness and testing of the "Status-6" products themselves: what tests? I address those interested in GOST RV 203: ROC stages (public citation in the media of the provisions of the document "for official use", even if it is freely available, is inappropriate). There is something to think about there. Starting with the "tests of the models".

Note: the publication of this TASS statement is an unconditional sign that this information (regardless of its reliability) was actually voiced to a TASS correspondent by a high-ranking official of the defense industry. Those. It was very important for some high-ranking Mr. N to carry out once again "processing (in fact, deliberate deception) of public opinion" through the media (TASS), obviously, in order to ensure further tasty development of budget funds on this topic.

It should be understood that phrases like “just about, now”, “at the end of the year”, “next year will be transferred to the fleet” on this topic will accompany the entire topic of “Status-6” and its carriers for many years ...

It is worth recalling once again the chronology of the project with the code name "Status-6".

On March 23, 1983, US President Ronald Reagan announced the "Strategic Defense Initiative," which declares complete freedom of strategic action for the United States through the creation of effective space assets and a supposedly reliable US missile defense system.

From the standpoint of today, this initiative should be considered the most effective example of information warfare (and the impact on the military-political leadership of the enemy). In the USSR, SDI was perceived extremely uncritically and painfully sharply, as an "almost real" system capable of practically neutralizing the strategic nuclear forces of the USSR of the 80s.

And it was precisely as an "anti-SDI" that the development of "Status-6" began (first at the research stage). In November 1983, the Office of Anti-Submarine Weapons of the Navy (UPV of the Navy) drew up an appeal to the government to create strategic nuclear super torpedoes. We were in a hurry to catch up on the subject of scientific research the next year. The details of these events were left by the former deputy chief of the Navy's UPV, Gusev R.A. (including his professional personal extremely negative assessment of what is happening).

Gusev will come to this office with a similar document again. Now it was proposed to significantly expand the scope of work ... Less than a month after the Chernobyl disaster, Aleksandrov signed the document firmly, without hesitation. So, the only person in the country who could scientifically and without looking back at a new direction in the arms race, on the contrary, turned on the green light for it. Some time later, the Chief of the General Staff Akhromeev also turned it on. He knew how many times we could turn America to dust, but it seemed not enough. Since “they” can and want to, let them do it. "They" are industry.

"Expansion of work" according to Gusev is nothing more than a transfer of work from the category of research and development work to the category of R&D (development work).

Here is the answer to the question of how realistic the indicated characteristics of "Status-6" are. One of the goals of research and development is precisely the justification of the requirements for R&D and the technical ways to achieve them. As for the numbers of the characteristics of "Status", they are quite correlated with those published in stories "Chernomorsudoproekt" (for "especially vigilant" - the enterprise is located in Nikolaev, now Ukraine).


Complex R&D projects usually involve the creation of stands, incl. shipboard. The experimental submarine B-90 (which became "Sarov") was laid down at the very end of the 80s.


During the Cold War, we and the United States had a lot of excessive military spending, the struggle was "on all fronts", including scientific ones. However, by the end of the 80s. all advertising and unreality of the American SDI became absolutely clear.

Moreover, the collapse of the USSR led to the end of not just excessive military spending, in the 90s. reached the point that the anecdote "the army is switching to three meals a day: on Monday, Wednesday and Friday" had quite real reasons.

And in these conditions, the continuation of the mass development of budgetary funds on this topic continued (although it slowed down).

In principle, this was not particularly hidden. And here you can only quote the blogger Yevgeny Maksimov, who revealed a large amount of publications on official resources on this topic:

e_maksimov # 23.02.2019/14/13 2:39 By indices: ciphers 2M39, 2P39 and XNUMXFXNUMX appeared in the annual reports and contracts of the Rubin cooperation at the beginning of the decade, even then it was possible to understand what they relate to, one had only to dig a little. This was not brought to the public for obvious reasons, someone was even asked, but now there is no sense in silence, since the information on the product has "gone".

Publicity


The informational "breakthrough" took place in the fall of 2015. during a meeting with the President of the Russian Federation on defense issues in Bocharov Ruchei (Sochi).


Due to the actual circumstances of what happened from the Kommersant journalist Andrei Kolesnikov who was present there “Torpedoing consciousness. How the presentation of the new Russian superweapon actually went on the air ":

... what was happening on the territory of the Bocharov Ruchey residence after the news from Channel One and NTV showed a U-turn with a torpedo ... The Zvezda TV operator, who was entrusted with filming interruptions for the stories of federal channels, in order to distribute them to everyone in the pool, was forced write an explanatory note. Stormy meetings were held with the participation of stakeholders. They meticulously understood the situation. To tell that no one had any black intent was, of course, pointless. And that interruptions are the case: the operator shoots everything that moves, any nod from the person sitting at the table - just in case, because living human gestures are always sorely lacking ... And that a color spread with some pictures behind the backs of two generals is creative luck in such a situation ... And that the poor operator of the television company, which specializes in filming live, real missile launches and submarine launches, could not even imagine that this could turn out to be the wrong interruption ... In the press center of the residence, meanwhile, the same operator was languishing TV company "Zvezda". Now they didn’t let him close to the hall, but, on the other hand, they didn’t kick him out completely and forever from everywhere, they let him into the territory of the residence ...



Photo: Andrey Kolesnikov / Kommersant

Let's call a spade a spade. Up to this point, the "stakeholders" were quietly assimilating a very fat budgetary funding, being covered by a veil of secrecy. At the same time, they were absolutely not bothered by the fact that almost everyone in the subject area knew what they were talking about, read about these works not only on the public procurement website (like blogger Maximov), but also in the ceremonial anniversary editions of enterprises.

The fact that the enemy, of course, knew about these works, did not bother them either (especially since there was a direct push from the United States to these works). For if a question was raised publicly (for example, in the media) about the essence and meaning of such works, the author could immediately be “crucified” under the pretext of “secrecy”.

And then there was a "light" in the "Bocharov Ruchey" ...

We must pay tribute to the resourcefulness of the "interested persons" in overcoming this confusion. It turned out really loud and “beautiful” (in quotes) - with the participation of the president. To whom, however, they hardly reported all the real ins and outs and problems of this project.

Media resonance


Undoubtedly, the disclosure of such weapons caused a violent reaction in the media, both domestic and foreign. There is no need to speak about the tonality of the overwhelming majority of domestic ones, these were the usual "unparalleled", "the enemy will be destroyed", etc., without any hint of analytics. The reaction of domestic experts was not just cautious: calling things by their proper names, they all clearly understood that a tough and objective public review of the issue would have extremely unpleasant consequences.

The first objective article by a Status specialist was published on March 11, 2019 on the Military Review portal: "Status" dead end ".

... even the most important and necessary state programs are objectively "cut" ... Against this background, huge amounts of money are actually buried in an extremely dubious system that has a negative value for the country's defense and security.

In fact, the article was written in early January 2019, but a significant number of media outlets refused to publish it, as they say, out of fear ... It turned out that we have defense issues that need to ring the alarm, but the situation is such that even as if to say scary.

Note: Taking into account the “acuteness of the topic”, despite the fact that the topic of “Status-6” was considered comprehensively and in detail, the author deliberately rude some technical estimates (their accuracy).

It should also be noted that the article by A. Timokhin, published earlier on the Voennoye Obozreniye portal (January 16, 2019) Poseidon Nuclear Drone: A Useless Superweapon.

The real meaning of the means of deterrence, both weapons and the armed forces, is that we still remain alive, preferably in such a quantity that our culture is preserved. The bet on "doomsday machines" even from the point of view of logic looks faulty.

The second article was published in the "Independent Military Review" on March 22, 2019, but in the form of a dispute: "Is Poseidon's invulnerability a myth?".
"In the event of the defeat of Poseidon, in the last moment of its existence, it detonated a thermonuclear multi-megaton charge ... will have disastrous consequences for countries located near the area of ​​the explosion and anti-submarine lines: Norway, England, Japan, thereby making it easier for super torpedoes following the deceased to overcome it" ... The problem is that since the 1980s, the enemy's ASW lines actually began directly from our bases and, accordingly, the indicated explosion would occur right off our shores. Yes, the triggering of all the "dirty" most powerful warheads even on the territory of the Russian Federation will have catastrophic consequences for the planet, but then why drive them across the ocean and place them on carriers that will most likely be sunk? There is simply no question of the adequacy of the idea itself. Especially considering nos. 1 and 3 st. 35 of the Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of August 12, 1949, adopted on June 8, 1977: “1. In the event of any armed conflict, the right of the parties to the conflict to choose methods or means of warfare is not unlimited ... 3. It is prohibited to use methods or means of warfare that are intended to cause, or can be expected to cause widespread, long-term and serious damage to the natural environment ”.


Conclusions and facts


1. Statements on the alleged secrecy of the "Status-6" products have no basis at all. On the contrary, a high power requirement and a huge overweight of the "Statuses" will mean a significant external acoustic field (both primary and secondary - for sonars), and the indicated cruising depth in the region of 1 km is located near the axis of the deep underwater sound channel in the ocean, where the detection conditions "Statuses" will be close to ideal.

2. Products "Status-6" can be hit even with standard anti-submarine weapons of the 80s. - nuclear depth charges, with target designation from aviation search and sighting systems. Today the arsenal of means of destruction has been significantly expanded, incl. torpedoes of the Mk50 type (stored in the warehouses of the US Navy) and the new anti-torpedoes ATT of the US Navy.

3. The ability to break through "Statuses" to targets can only be ensured in the event of a massive nuclear destruction of anti-submarine warfare elements in a theater of operations ("boil the sea"). The question arises as to the expediency of such a solution to the problem, taking into account the fact that in the foreseeable future, strategic warheads will reliably hit their targets with classical means.

4. Creation of the "Status-6" system requires extremely high material costs, which significantly limits the financing of much more relevant, demanded and effective programs.

5. "Status-6" / "Poseidon" does not have any military meaning (other than negative), it is highly questionable politically.

6. Despite all this, the program continues to be implemented.

7. It is necessary to talk about all this, write in the media! The question needs to be shaken, for a drop is hammering a stone, and the lobbyists of this topic do not have sane reasonable arguments for "Status-6". Actually, the very reaction (extremely nervous and painful) to critical analytical materials in the media on this topic is indicative. The power is in truth, and experts in satisfying scientific curiosity for huge budgetary funds understand this.

8. Together with dirty water, you cannot throw out a child: the topic of small-sized nuclear power plants is very relevant both for large-sized combat submarines and for ensuring long-range diving of our diesel submarines with small-sized special power plants of the "special period".
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Articles from this series:
"Status" dead end "
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  1. rocket757
    rocket757 15 October 2020 10: 12
    18
    What do we know REALLY on this topic?
    Can you imagine that a specialist, a person who KNOWS, will spread on the pages of various "popular" publications?
    It is doubtful, this is a military secret!
    So, around the bush, OBS, here is the level of information that is offered for discussion!
    Not funny.
    1. Woodman
      Woodman 15 October 2020 10: 20
      -3
      In fact, the article was written in early January 2019, but a significant number of media outlets refused to publish it, as they say, out of fear ...
      For fear that this
      Quote: rocket757
      OBS, here is the level of information which is offered for discussion!
      Not funny.
      1. figwam
        figwam 15 October 2020 10: 48
        -1
        Someone in the west became scared, a strange article.
        1. Interlocutor
          Interlocutor 15 October 2020 11: 21
          -1
          Someone in the west became scared, a strange article.

          Not ... This is Maksimka Klimov spewed out another little article ... That he washed everything that we don't do, everything on "ren is not needed and the money was stolen ...
          We look forward to next week ... will vomit more ...
        2. timokhin-aa
          15 October 2020 12: 16
          +2
          No one there was scared.
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 15 October 2020 14: 26
            +9
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            No one there was scared.

            Alexander, and in fact the article is very similar to a customized one and one can see the focus on forming an opinion about the uselessness of this project! Your friend has been seen lobbying for various topics before!
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 15 October 2020 14: 48
              -6
              Quote: Serg65
              the focus on the formation of an opinion about the uselessness of this project is visible!

              Quite right, the Poseidon project is unnecessary and even harmful.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. timokhin-aa
                  16 October 2020 12: 00
                  +4
                  Very harmful to the United States.
                  It is very necessary for restful sleep of the inhabitants of Russia.


                  How is it harmful to the United States? The fact that we poured money into it like a brigade of surface ships or submarines and did not get anything at the exit?

                  And how does it provide a restful sleep for Russian citizens?

                  In Klimov's note, the fear of Maksimka and the thirst for money are at the same time. For the loot, he shit on everything and everyone.


                  Do not judge people by yourself, please.

                  Without knowing anything about this project, how can you write that it is not needed?


                  Why are those who know nothing about this project confident that no one else knows anything about this project?
            2. timokhin-aa
              15 October 2020 15: 53
              +1
              So he doesn't need this project for anything.
              Except for the last point in the article.
              By the way, I was the first in VO, by the way, and one of the first in the Russian Internet to question this miracle.
              So you can enroll me as a paid writer.
              And Andrey from Chelyabinsk, he seems to have rode on the topic somehow too.
              laughing
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 16 October 2020 09: 15
                -2
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                and enroll me in the paid writers.

                As I have already told you, Alexander, about your easy sanity.
                With someone else's filing, it seems to you that you are fighting with everything black, in the name of everything white .... but in fact, everything is much more complicated, moreover, beneficial to others and useless for you!
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                First on VO

                Special Representative of the President of the United States on arms control issues, Marshal Billingsley commented on an article in Forbes magazine, in which the version was put forward that allegedly the reason for the recently discovered increase in the background radiation by the Swedes could be the testing of one of these missiles.
                “It doesn't matter if (Russia) is responsible for the last incident or not, it indicates why Russia should send these projects to the shelf. A big waste of money
                The Times on the Poseidon System
                Like all of today's Putin propaganda, these silly stories are mainly for domestic consumption. It would be high time for some group of Moscow generals to gather their strength and quietly remove Putin and his cronies, depriving them of their unjustly acquired wealth. Then they must be dressed in prison uniforms, shaved and led in a formation across Moscow, after which they must be sent to some Siberian gulag.

                Alexander, you have excellent analytics, but your strategic thinking is lame ... even if this Paseidon is not in nature, he has already done more than those who leaked information about its development to the social network hoped for!
                1. timokhin-aa
                  16 October 2020 12: 02
                  +5
                  The problem is that it is in nature.
                  And what you have highlighted will easily happen if we lose any war, as in 1904-1905.
                  And in order not to lose, it is necessary to eliminate the gaps in combat readiness.
                  And for this you need to name them - etc.
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 16 October 2020 14: 04
                    0
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    The problem is that it is in nature.

                    You still do not understand, he is in nature, he is not in nature without a difference ... he has already done his job! Poseidon is a political weapon! The same as for example the atomic bomb in 1945.
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    what you have highlighted will easily happen if we lose any war, as in 1904-1905.

                    By the way, how do you explain our loss in RYAV?
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    in order not to lose, it is necessary to close the combat readiness gaps.
                    And for this you need to name them

                    Why don't you plunge into the topic of drones, in my opinion this is now the most painful topic!
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    we need to close the combat readiness gaps

                    I agree, but the question is how to fix it?
                    For example ... the fleet is growing, qualified crews are needed, there is a huge problem with personnel training ... how is this problem solved?
                    Here is a friend of yours complaining about the cut in the military budget related to the Navy ... and what are the reasons for the decrease ... the notorious "no money" or the problem of the productivity of the military-industrial complex ie The Ministry of Defense does not see the result, therefore it cuts funding and thus stimulates the initiative of the military-industrial complex to improve productivity according to the "morning chairs - evening money" method?
              2. neri73-r
                neri73-r 16 October 2020 10: 02
                0
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                By the way, I was the first in VO, by the way, and one of the first in the Russian Internet to question this miracle.
                So you can enroll me as a paid writer.
                And Andrey from Chelyabinsk, he seems to have rode on the topic somehow too.

                To reason about something, you need to know it actual characteristics and purpose! Otherwise, it really is OBS!
                1. timokhin-aa
                  16 October 2020 12: 02
                  +2
                  Why are those who know nothing about this project confident that no one else knows anything about this project?
                  1. neri73-r
                    neri73-r 16 October 2020 22: 42
                    +1
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    Why are those who know nothing about this project confident that no one else knows anything about this project?

                    Because I know 1000% that as soon as someone tries to take something to the side, then the 275th Criminal Code will shine for him, and this is from 12 to 20! And, thank God, the office is not sleeping!
                    1. timokhin-aa
                      20 October 2020 10: 55
                      +2
                      1. If I repeat what has already been exposed in open sources, then no article of the Criminal Code will shine for me.
                      If I post an algorithm on how to calculate the real performance characteristics of a product, but I don’t post the numbers myself, no article of the Criminal Code will shine for me.

                      2. My personal experience just says that the office is still asleep. True, I will not write about this anywhere, it will be overkill.
                      The office is dozing, in short.
                  2. neri73-r
                    neri73-r 16 October 2020 22: 44
                    +1
                    And secondly, I just wrote that you need to know and did not claim that I know!
              3. vVvAD
                vVvAD 17 October 2020 15: 52
                0
                Alexander, hi
                LAB is only one of the target load options, perhaps not even the most important.
                Yes, an unprecedented field for money laundering opens up here, especially given the secrecy ... as well as the field of opportunities. Such technologies can, in the medium term, become a breakthrough in a war at sea, and in the long term, in a wider involvement of water areas in economic circulation.
                I want to be an optimist repeat
                1. timokhin-aa
                  20 October 2020 10: 56
                  +1
                  In the form in which this product was made, it can only be a high-speed torpedo with a nuclear warhead
          2. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 15 October 2020 19: 07
            0
            laughing and now in your article will you refer to him? or is it just Mina shell-shocked? or is it a mutually agreeable love?)))
        3. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 15 October 2020 14: 16
          +4
          What really paid attention to in the "west" is a hypersonic weapon. Namely on the Dagger and Zircon. In the United States, they tensed and began to raise their old projects and create new ones.
          Poseidon and Burevestnik are dead projects, against which nothing needs to be changed in missile defense and anti-aircraft defense. Diverting resources from really important projects. But the uryaklam like it, the main thing is that there is no analogy in the world. In reality, environmentalists and residents of the areas where the tests are being tested have strained on these projects. Near Arkhangelsk the first bell was already, I hope it was not an alarm.
    2. timokhin-aa
      15 October 2020 12: 06
      +5
      What do we know REALLY on this topic?


      This is not the way to ask. "What do I know about this topic?" and not to speak for others.
      Because the information is just in bulk, up to:

      A batch of material according to the mid-range of the ROC "Cabriolet": turbo reducer 2A05.0210.001 in the amount of 5 pcs., Nozzle apparatus 2А05.0210.005 (technological sample - 1 pc.), Grate 2А05.0210.024 in the amount of 5 pcs. 2 pcs., driving gear 39.010.003Ж3 in the amount of 2 pcs. and rotor 39.010.004A3 in the amount of 2 pc.


      And already if you take a book on the design of torpedoes, with calculations for the speed and bearing force of the hull, then at least do reverse engineering.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 15 October 2020 12: 17
        +3
        Do you know about all the nuts, bolts from which this "unit" is assembled and know where and how they are screwed in?
        Boom takes ... seriously. Anyone who knows WILL NOT paint here.
        And the one who would dare to write that, apart from the permitted disinformation, he would write "his novels" elsewhere, ALREADY.
        That is our reality.
        I'm not talking about general tendencies, problems in our fleet, army, economy, state, about the empty, irresponsible chatter of many, such as those in charge! Specifically, for a secret product, about which it is not yet clear what it is or was.
        That's all.
        1. timokhin-aa
          15 October 2020 12: 18
          -1
          That is our reality.

          This is no longer a reality.
        2. Per se.
          Per se. 15 October 2020 12: 32
          20
          Quote: rocket757
          Boom takes ... seriously.
          How can you be serious about the fact that this "secret project" was exposed in front of a TV camera "over your shoulder"? The USSR abandoned this topic, now this "jihad-torpedo" has begun to spin up, perhaps because they have optimized science and education in general so well that soon nuclear suicide belts will be relevant for kamikaze diplomats.

          In principle, when approaching, "We, as martyrs, will go to heaven, and they will simply die," you can not kill the world's oceans with radioactive shit, but blow up all your nuclear warheads right on your territory, and the whole world will have a kirdyk. At the same time, there is no need to overcome any missile defense system in order to strike retaliation, Russia immediately goes to paradise, with all natural resources ... How to cut the loot so much, and raise the ratings in cheeks, it would be better to bring VNEU to mind.
          1. kepmor
            kepmor 15 October 2020 12: 35
            +9
            so it is easier to cut and puff out your cheeks than to create with brains and hands ...
          2. Serg65
            Serg65 15 October 2020 14: 39
            +3
            Quote: Per se.
            was this "secret project" flashed in front of the TV camera "over your shoulder"?

            And why did they "light up", there are assumptions?
            1. Sergey39
              Sergey39 16 October 2020 13: 54
              0
              Quote: Serg65
              And why did they "light up", there are assumptions?

              It's just that such a weapon does not make sense without exposure. And to light up a "secret" piece of paper is not expensive. What kind of budget drink are we talking about? What are the boats "Belgorod" and "Sarov" actually intended for? Who knows for sure?
          3. unaha
            unaha 16 October 2020 14: 14
            +3
            As you know, belief (in God, the water of Chumak, a cunning plan that has no analogues, etc.) is not overcome by logical arguments.
        3. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 15 October 2020 19: 00
          +4
          Quote: rocket757
          Boom takes ... seriously. Anyone who knows WILL NOT paint here.
          And the one who would dare to write that, apart from the permitted disinformation, he would write "his novels" elsewhere, ALREADY.
          That is our reality.

          Our reality is "State purchases".
          It was on this site that, for example, an application for the maintenance of command missiles of the Perimeter system was posted - the first official confirmation that the system exists and is in service. smile
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 15 October 2020 13: 06
        +6
        bearing force of the body
        The body has a bearing capacity. Or does the body of your torpedo generate some kind of "bearing force"?
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 October 2020 13: 09
          +6
          Quote: Undecim
          Or does the body of your torpedo generate some kind of "bearing force"?

          I remembered a small anecdote ... Question: what is Divine power?
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 15 October 2020 13: 16
            +4
            It's just that controlling the torpedo in the vertical plane is much easier to carry out using horizontal rudders.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 October 2020 14: 06
              +4
              Quote: Undecim
              Simple torpedo control

              I'm joking :))))
              - What is Divine Power?
              - Divine power is Divine mass multiplied by Divine speed "

              It would be correct, of course, "Divine Acceleration", but for an anecdote it will do :)
            2. timokhin-aa
              15 October 2020 15: 51
              -3
              She will drown without lift on the hull and rudders.
        2. timokhin-aa
          15 October 2020 13: 36
          0
          I had to write a lift.
          At speed.
      3. Ali
        Ali 15 October 2020 16: 54
        -6
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        Poseidon and Petrel dead projects, against which nothing needs to be changed in ABM and PLO. Diverting resources from really important projects. But the uryaklam like it, the main thing is that there is no analogy in the world. Really environmentalists and residents of the districts where the tests are being tested have strained on these projects. Near Arkhangelsk the first bell was already, I hope it was not an alarm.

        timokhin-aa (Alexander Timokhin), mind you which contingent immediately supports you and not from Russia, also does not know radar at all, but knows how to engage in agitation against Russia, spitting on Russian equipment, that is, trying ... Do you count on such? They can see your topic very much. Himself not knowing well the Russian language, OgnennyiKotik, gave everyone the thoughts of Russophobes! Read and understand what they want.
    3. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 15 October 2020 13: 00
      +6
      Quote: rocket757
      What do we know REALLY on this topic?

      As a certain philosopher said: “I know I don’t know anything!” ... Well, I’m not “Copenhagen” in nuclear physics ... and in “some” sciences too! Although, after a couple of glasses of strong tea, I can talk ... freely and naturally! And yet this does not detract from the following fact: well, I just cannot understand, delving into the dried remains of school and extramural education, how did you achieve this "outstanding scientific breakthrough"? After the collapse of the economy, the system of higher education, scientific schools ... with "penny" funding (compared to "Soviet" ...), after the outflow of a number of competent scientists, "suddenly" - a breakthrough! Here, even not only in how they could ... how ... But in order for the "Status-6" system to acquire the promised efficiency it was necessary to solve several complex technical problems, even of fundamental importance! Such problems cannot be solved with a "pantalyku"! This is preceded by years of systematic work by talented scientists ... publications in the international scientific world ... for scientific breakthroughs are rarely made in an "empty" place ... more often, they are made on the "shoulders" of previous discoveries, research ... (for which purpose and publications ...) But the "scientific world" itself is at a loss, on what principles "Poseidon" was implemented! Here, even the "situation" is not only in the creation of a compact and powerful, "secretive" nuclear power plant! Just think of what "heights" must be achieved in super-technological electronics and software! How, a "posoidon" travels thousands of miles with the highest accuracy, in enemy space, remaining unnoticed ... (which means, perhaps, "deliberately" avoiding, having previously discovered in time, the adversary's devices ...!) While remaining controllable .. .with the ability to change tasks! After all, for this it is necessary to create an underwater GPS not "worse" (or maybe "cleaner" ...) than the space one! Who can imagine what it cost to create any GPS in the world? Only those who can understand this will be able to understand the "problematic nature" of creating an underwater GPS! And without it, it seems, "Poseidons" can not do!
      1. Serg4545
        Serg4545 16 October 2020 03: 42
        +3
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        After all, for this it is necessary to create an underwater GPS not "worse" (or maybe "cleaner" ...) than the space one! Who can imagine what it cost to create any GPS in the world? Only those who can understand this will be able to understand the "problematic nature" of creating an underwater GPS! And without it, it seems, "Poseidons" can not do!

        We must look not for difficulties, but for ways to solve them.
        Well, it immediately occurred to me:
        Poseidon stops at a depth of 1 km. Launches a buoy on the cable. When the buoy comes to the surface, it receives location data from GPS / Glonas. And that's it!
        Then the buoy is either pulled through the cable into Poseidon or the cable is cut and Poseidon sails on, having received the exact coordinates.
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 16 October 2020 08: 29
          0
          Not a bad idea ... albeit a well-known one. But besides the buoy, there are many other "nuances" that cannot be discussed in the comments! A separate article on this topic is needed, and a very voluminous one! hi
        2. timokhin-aa
          16 October 2020 12: 03
          +2
          He can't stop, see the links in the article. No time to fantasize.
    4. timokhin-aa
      15 October 2020 18: 39
      -3
      From the author of the article, Maxim Klimov:

      What do we know REALLY on this topic?


      see Gusev. This is not just ZNU UPV, but one of the three (Butov, Akopov, Gusev) executors of the "original document" in the CPSU Central Committee and the Council of Ministers on this issue (November 1983).
      He clearly and exhaustively outlined his EXTREMELY NEGATIVE assessment of this topic.
      The facts given by him are absolutely correlated with others (Bakatin, Chernomorsudproekt, the dates of the B-90 laying ...)
      1. Boris Chernikov
        Boris Chernikov 15 October 2020 19: 02
        -2
        maybe then it is worth remembering some 30s? well, so that with a guarantee?)
    5. Boris Chernikov
      Boris Chernikov 15 October 2020 19: 01
      -2
      one problem ... Mina, in principle, does not know ANYTHING on this topic ... so the article is not even suitable for a toilet
    6. Oprichnik
      Oprichnik 16 October 2020 00: 20
      0
      [b] [/ b] Or maybe he is an agent of influence paid by our enemies, and this and similar articles are elements of the information-psychological war waged by our enemies against us for several centuries. In order to weaken our defense potential and force us to abandon promising weapons. Moreover, the article contains mainly emotions and unfounded statements and appeals to emotions, and not the thinking of readers, especially in such a specific topic.
    7. ZEMCH
      ZEMCH 17 October 2020 01: 30
      +2
      Quote: rocket757
      What do we know REALLY on this topic?
      Can you imagine that a specialist, a person who KNOWS, will spread on the pages of various "popular" publications?
      It is doubtful, this is a military secret!
      So, around the bush, OBS, here is the level of information that is offered for discussion!
      Not funny.

      I agree with you! This topic is closed by secrecy, but do not play around, what kind of torpedoes, what for, etc. According to the carrier, the secrecy is even greater))) Maybe someday they will tell))
    8. LMN
      LMN 17 October 2020 22: 26
      +3
      Quote: rocket757
      What do we know REALLY on this topic?
      Can you imagine that a specialist, a person who KNOWS, will spread on the pages of various "popular" publications?
      It is doubtful, this is a military secret!
      So, around the bush, OBS, here is the level of information that is offered for discussion!
      Not funny.


      The first thing I thought about after reading the title of the article was that I would have to ask the author a question: Does he have information about the specific amounts allocated specifically for this project?

      It follows from the article that he does not know.

      What exactly is it about then? request

      That research isn't that important in principle? Here the answer is obvious.
      I didn't quite understand what the author wanted to say.
  2. Killemall
    Killemall 15 October 2020 10: 13
    +4
    Everything is kapets, there will be no kin! So the Americans also say that we should tie up with flying Chernobyls and Poseidons ... What does the author say there?
    It is necessary to talk about all this, write in the media!

    it seems not a premature reincarnation of "drunk Lyosha" ... You dear, man, a direct road to FBK!
    1. Senka naughty
      Senka naughty 15 October 2020 11: 05
      0
      Apparently, NATO expects that in a military conflict with Russia, they will systematically bomb cities and seize territories, as they did in Yugoslavia, Iraq, etc. After all, weapons of mass destruction are not "ethical" (Hiroshima, Nagasaki? Forgotten ..) and Russia will never agree to this. Therefore, developments in this direction are wasteful, senseless and harm the Russian economy. - Declares with concern the paid author of the article.
    2. timokhin-aa
      15 October 2020 12: 07
      0
      Do not distort, Poseidon is pure game, completely meaningless, and this is a fact.
      The author is right, it would be better if they spent money on real weapons.
      1. kepmor
        kepmor 15 October 2020 12: 50
        +2
        a useless exercise even "on the fingers" to explain the inferiority of this wunderwaffe to those to whom the "behind-the-ground" gray matter warms the soul in imaginary greatness and abstract self-invulnerability ...
      2. Senka naughty
        Senka naughty 15 October 2020 14: 25
        -1
        And I am not distorting whether it is game or not, neither me, nor you, nor the "respected" author should know. The fact is that more than one hack from VO will not be admitted to information about the latest developments, if you have facts, and not conjectures - present. So far, only "analytics", nothing confirmed.
        1. timokhin-aa
          15 October 2020 15: 50
          -3
          The author had access to this topic.

          As for the rest - take a look at the comments from the beginning, where I disclose to another user the question in detail, right down to the catalog numbers of the component parts.
          1. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 15 October 2020 19: 49
            0
            laughing this is when he had access to information on the development of this torpedo? Nuka Nuka ... when were the combatant sailors given such permission?)
            1. timokhin-aa
              16 October 2020 12: 04
              +3
              The Stroyevs were not given, and the Leading Designers in the Region were given enough.
              You just don't know Klimov's biography, that's why you are clever here.
              1. Boris Chernikov
                Boris Chernikov 16 October 2020 17: 52
                -4
                lol so enlighten, when did he manage to become a leading designer and what did he develop and why he was kicked out as a journalist?
          2. Hagen
            Hagen 16 October 2020 09: 30
            0
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            The author had access to this topic.

            If the author, using his security clearance, had leaked something more than it should be according to the regime, he would have dictated his "articles" to the investigator for a long time.
            1. timokhin-aa
              16 October 2020 12: 05
              +2
              Right. Therefore, only what is already in open sources and can be viewed by anyone is merged.
      3. Oprichnik
        Oprichnik 16 October 2020 00: 22
        -2
        Timokhin: For what? on a new howitzer or something?
        1. timokhin-aa
          16 October 2020 12: 05
          +3
          The money that this scam ate could have been used to build a brigade of corvettes for Kamchatka. With helicopters and crews.
          Maybe the infrastructure would have remained.
          1. Boris Chernikov
            Boris Chernikov 16 October 2020 17: 55
            -1
            it was impossible, because shipyards are not taken out of thin air ... tongue
          2. 3danimal
            3danimal 28 October 2020 18: 30
            0
            And what about the air defense system of corvettes? There was also a problem with the surveillance radar .. request
      4. ZEMCH
        ZEMCH 17 October 2020 01: 47
        +1
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Do not distort, Poseidon is pure game, completely meaningless, and this is a fact.
        The author is right, it would be better if they spent money on real weapons.

        What we were shown and told about Belgorod, how to say decently, is not quite what it actually is))) And if you look closely at the publications from the Ministry of Defense, then Poseidon is called an unmanned underwater vehicle there. And the functions that are attributed to him (a nuclear explosion on the shelf) are not quite the same)))
        Boats and Poseidons are transferred to the GUGI of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. When they finish, what they started in 2016 in the north will reassure many about PLO)))
        1. timokhin-aa
          22 October 2020 14: 29
          +1
          Well, in general, we started at the Atoll MGK-608. I understand that now there is a new FOSS, and Belgorod will also be involved there, but SPA Poseidon is here by no means a word at all.

          Just in case, I know that Belgorod is not only carrying Poseidon.
          1. ZEMCH
            ZEMCH 22 October 2020 14: 33
            0
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Just in case, I know that Belgorod is not only carrying Poseidon.

            Many people know!)) I meant that using Poseidon as a torpedo with a TY charge, as one of the many options, but clearly not the main one))
            1. timokhin-aa
              23 October 2020 13: 15
              0
              For SPA with negative buoyancy - the only one.
  3. Vladimir Mashkov
    Vladimir Mashkov 15 October 2020 10: 14
    +1
    Strange impression of the article ... As if written on instructions from the CIA. Well, or MI6. Perhaps just me?
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 15 October 2020 10: 23
      +3
      Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
      As if written on behalf of the CIA. Well, or MI6. Perhaps just me?

      Or maybe Klimov is driving mischief ...
    2. BARKHAN
      BARKHAN 15 October 2020 10: 24
      -2
      Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
      Strange impression of the article ... As if written on instructions from the CIA. Well, or MI6. Perhaps just me?

      No, not only you. Obviously paid article of the enemy's accomplice. A weapon that is guaranteed to nullify the aggressor cannot be bad. It is at the same time a deterrent. It is such a weapon that will be that sword hanging over the skinny ass of the enemy.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 15 October 2020 10: 29
        -7
        Quote: Barkhan
        It is such a weapon that will be that sword hanging over the skinny asses of the enemy

        It is necessary for the Caspian Sea. Otherwise, Azerbaijan has a submarine there, but we don't. Non-parity, however.
        1. BARKHAN
          BARKHAN 15 October 2020 10: 40
          0
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          Quote: Barkhan
          It is such a weapon that will be that sword hanging over the skinny asses of the enemy

          It is necessary for the Caspian Sea. Otherwise, Azerbaijan has a submarine there, but we don't. Non-parity, however.

          I'm interested in the Channel and both coasts of the United States ...
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 15 October 2020 10: 46
            0
            Quote: Barkhan
            I'm interested in the Channel and both coasts of the United States ...

            There is a metro under the English Channel. The Armenians will have enough for them.
      2. Eldorado
        Eldorado 15 October 2020 11: 07
        -8
        Quote: Barkhan
        Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
        Strange impression of the article ... As if written on instructions from the CIA. Well, or MI6. Perhaps just me?

        No, not only you. Obviously paid article of the enemy's accomplice. A weapon that is guaranteed to nullify the aggressor cannot be bad. It is at the same time a deterrent. It is such a weapon that will be that sword hanging over the skinny ass of the enemy.

        She is paid. VO pays for articles. Klimov is an enemy. Often lies and does not blush.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 October 2020 12: 48
          +8
          Quote: El Dorado
          Klimov is an enemy. Often lies and does not blush.

          So let's refute, what's the problem?
        2. timokhin-aa
          15 October 2020 12: 48
          +8
          Klimov wrote the truth in this case, but your bomb is not childish, I look. Pink glasses have grown to your face, does it hurt to tear off?
          1. Hagen
            Hagen 16 October 2020 09: 32
            +1
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Pink glasses have grown to your face, does it hurt to tear off?

            Would you like to swap those goggles for an electric welder mask? laughing
            1. timokhin-aa
              16 October 2020 12: 06
              +1
              No, you have to see the world as it is.
        3. cmax
          cmax 15 October 2020 23: 35
          -5
          Quote: El Dorado
          Quote: Barkhan
          Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
          Strange impression of the article ... As if written on instructions from the CIA. Well, or MI6. Perhaps just me?

          No, not only you. Obviously paid article of the enemy's accomplice. A weapon that is guaranteed to nullify the aggressor cannot be bad. It is at the same time a deterrent. It is such a weapon that will be that sword hanging over the skinny ass of the enemy.

          She is paid. VO pays for articles. Klimov is an enemy. Often lies and does not blush.

          Yeah, now he will still decide to criticize the "super rake" for shooting down the F35. Also an "innovative sawing" project. The person expressed his opinion !!! Why can't he express it. And I agree with him. It would be better if the money went to the frigates.
      3. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 15 October 2020 11: 12
        +6
        Quote: Barkhan
        A weapon that is guaranteed to be able to nullify an aggressor cannot be bad.

        The problem is that there is no guarantee - the existing anti-aircraft weapons systems allow hitting this wunderwaffe. In contrast to the existing and improving ICBMs, which, moreover, have a much wider range of targets, because their warheads are not tied to the aquatic environment and are not limited to the coast.
        And worst of all - PLO can affect Poseidon all the way. Unlike missile defense, limited by an atmospheric section, which warheads slip through rather quickly.
      4. timokhin-aa
        15 October 2020 12: 49
        10
        This weapon cannot nullify anything other than the Russian budget.
      5. Oprichnik
        Oprichnik 16 October 2020 00: 23
        -6
        I agree!!! Such authors should be taken into dense development and ASKED, for HOW MUCH did they sell their homeland?
        1. The comment was deleted.
    3. rocket757
      rocket757 15 October 2020 10: 26
      +1
      We have enough OBS collectors of our own. Such a specificity of such data, real, is not, but sources that inspire confidence in them are a dime a dozen.
      All the shops where our know-it-all grannies walk around and questioned them. Such foreign agents cannot be trusted in any way, their grandmothers will immediately recognize and ..... different options.
      1. novel66
        novel66 15 October 2020 10: 40
        +2
        Victor, hi hi and I was cut straight to the heart - 72 !!! cruise missiles .... by ISIS !!! won't they be fat?
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 15 October 2020 11: 06
          0
          Hello Roman soldier
          There are effective and not so expensive methods for chasing and countering barmaleev.
          It is clear, sometimes it is necessary to check the product or send a warning to some, tady OH! could be so.
    4. g1v2
      g1v2 15 October 2020 10: 31
      +6
      Not . It's just Klimov, he's Mina. He has the modes "mom. Everything is gone" and "all Honduras, and I am D'Artagnan" never turns off. Apparently the switch has broken. request laughing He does not have any insider information or admission to information, all this is written with a pitchfork on the water. But sometimes interesting articles come across. This is not one of them. request
      1. timokhin-aa
        15 October 2020 12: 08
        +5
        And in essence, there is something to object to Poseidon? For example - why is he, in principle, for such grandmother?
        1. g1v2
          g1v2 15 October 2020 12: 54
          -1
          We have already argued on this topic with Klimov. Too lazy to repeat. This is not his first cry about Poseidon. request
          1. timokhin-aa
            15 October 2020 13: 19
            +5
            I have never heard arguments for this sawmill, which would not be based on a mistaken understanding of the key issues of PLO and acoustics.
            Klimov is right and he is not alone.
        2. K298rtm
          K298rtm 15 October 2020 17: 04
          +3
          1. Maybe you need to look at these works from the other side. For example, that this is the development of a certain universal platform on the basis of which it is possible to create (all of the following are my unscientific fantasies, if that):
          - research apparatus for environmental monitoring in the interests of operational oceanology;
          - operational-strategic GPD - to divert PLO forces to false directions and ensure the combat stability of our planes;
          - stand for testing AI systems in real (sea) conditions;
          - etc. etc. (those who wish can continue their fantasies).
          2. I believe that it is not entirely correct to call the item in question a torpedo. Rather, it is an ultra-small unmanned aircraft (in order for this product to fulfill the publicly (officially) set task - delivering the charge to the right place, it must maneuver along the course, depth and speed in significant intervals, adjust its trajectory (determine the place), etc. etc.).
          3. As for the American SDI, new technologies have been developed within the framework of this program.
          4. Leakage of information on the Status led to the intensification of the work of the "partners" under the PLO-FOSS programs (unmanned boats, etc.).
          5. On the efficiency of spending budget funds - I have long formed the opinion that the criteria and performance indicators are different (to put it mildly).
          1. timokhin-aa
            15 October 2020 17: 34
            0
            If this thing had a place for ballast tanks, then you could still think so, but there it is not.

            The second point, and the Americans are already writing about it without hiding, is that this project launches a new round of the arms race.

            Another problem is that this project made the Americans think about the sabotage placement of nuclear charges under water using such means.

            In short, we will now release a genie from the bottle that it would be better not, and we will throw money into this topic without a mind, and we will not get results that are significant for the country's security.

            This project is a great way to create a lot of really hard problems for yourself for a lot of money.
            1. OgnennyiKotik
              OgnennyiKotik 15 October 2020 17: 55
              -3
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              Another problem is that this project made the Americans think about the sabotage placement of nuclear charges under water using such means.

              In short, we will now release a genie from the bottle that it would be better not, and we will throw money into this topic without a mind, and we will not get results that are significant for the country's security.

              The United States is considering increasing the number of its fleet to 534 ships, of which 140-240 are unmanned surface and submarine ships. It is also planned to expand the capabilities of PLO due to the UAV in conjunction with the R-8. They have enough Conventional Weapon strength to deal with Poseidon threats.
            2. K298rtm
              K298rtm 15 October 2020 18: 43
              0
              Or maybe there is a hidden meaning in this - someone very, very smart (and very far-sighted) is already planning how they will clean up the problems (created by them)?
        3. Hagen
          Hagen 16 October 2020 09: 38
          +1
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          And in essence, there is something to object to Poseidon? For example - why is he, in principle, for such grandmother?

          If you reliably know everything so well and can reasonably show the cut of the budget, file a lawsuit. Why are you getting excited in front of passers-by? You understand very well that this article will not lead to any consequences, except for local flooding on the VO. It seems to me that all the work of the team of authors on the topic of equipping the Navy is the target noodles for the inexperienced reader.
    5. timokhin-aa
      15 October 2020 12: 08
      +2
      You just did not follow the topic.
      Everything in the article is correct.
  4. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 15 October 2020 10: 15
    +2
    The power is in truth, and experts in satisfying scientific curiosity for huge budgetary funds understand this.
    "We'll go to heaven, and they'll just die"?
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 15 October 2020 10: 27
      +3
      Neither perspective is attractive.
      1. novel66
        novel66 15 October 2020 10: 40
        0
        meticulously noticed
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 15 October 2020 11: 08
          -1
          Life is good, and the one who claims the opposite .... at least strange in their judgments.
  5. Operator
    Operator 15 October 2020 10: 21
    -4
    The signatory of the article has professional training below the level of the commander of a mine and torpedo warhead of a nuclear submarine, whose position he held many years ago, therefore, it is banal to confuse the Russian Poseidon unmanned underwater vehicle (unlimited range, nuclear control system, ballast tank, submarine communication system, 100-knot speed , travel depth 1500 meters) with a project of a Soviet large-caliber torpedo (range of several tens of kilometers, non-nuclear power plant, negative buoyancy, 30-knot speed, travel depth 100 meters).

    The Russian NPA "Poseidon" coincides with the Soviet large-caliber torpedo only in terms of the dimensions and power of the thermonuclear charge.

    The fabrications given in the article about the alleged inferiority of Poseidon are nothing more than another run over by lobbyists to continue the construction of mindless monsters such as the Yasen and Borey nuclear submarines - victims of slave copying of American developments 60 years ago.
    1. kepmor
      kepmor 15 October 2020 11: 57
      +5
      your irrepressible hatred of the "article signer", really, already looks simply ridiculous ... as well as the pearl about "slave copying" ...
      do you think it is necessary to stop the construction of SSBN and MPLA for the sake of some superpuper Poseidon ??? ... well ...
      as an anti-submarine operator with 15 years of experience "on iron", I fully agree with the author in matters of combat stability, both as a carrier and this "miracle-yuda" itself ...
      1. Operator
        Operator 15 October 2020 12: 00
        0
        What is your engineering background - can you tell a ballasted underwater vehicle of unlimited range from a torpedo with negative buoyancy and 30 km of travel? laughing
        1. timokhin-aa
          15 October 2020 12: 10
          +5
          Andryusha, take a school physics textbook and calculate how many newtons are needed to compensate for the negative buoyancy of this miracle, and think about where to get them at the same time.
        2. kepmor
          kepmor 15 October 2020 12: 31
          +6
          I can easily distinguish ...
          but you tell me - what kind of forces and means to ensure combat stability when deploying also carriers of this "perpetomobile", if in reality anti-submarine and anti-mine forces in the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet are not enough even for "strategists" who, in terms of their power and effectiveness of use many times surpass this "child of the cut" ??? ...
          I repeat once again - the author is definitely right in that it is better to spend these finances and capacities on targets critically necessary for the fleet - plnk, mpla, plo aviation, pmnk, means of detection and destruction ...
          1. Operator
            Operator 15 October 2020 12: 48
            -9
            I don’t see your competence in the issue of the difference between an NPA and a torpedo.
            1. kepmor
              kepmor 15 October 2020 13: 19
              +4
              I do not see the need to confirm my "competence" before the armies of the sofa ... the end ...
              1. Operator
                Operator 15 October 2020 14: 04
                -5
                It is clear - another warrant officer from the outskirts.
                1. timokhin-aa
                  15 October 2020 15: 56
                  0
                  Everything is simple for Andryusha - you are not registered, so from the outskirts.
                  Even the nurses are from the outskirts laughing
  6. stalki
    stalki 15 October 2020 10: 23
    +3
    The article "water in a mortar has been poured", there is no information open, what conclusions can be drawn here? This interpretation is similar to betting in a sweepstake.
    1. timokhin-aa
      15 October 2020 12: 10
      0
      Full of open information.
      1. stalki
        stalki 15 October 2020 13: 44
        +4
        Fully open information
        Official? On the website of the Ministry of Defense, only a vote by name and superficial links to the apparatus. There are no official technical specifications, there is no detailed real video, photo information. The weapon is classified, all infa along the bush. What conclusions can be drawn? Except to dream up.
        1. timokhin-aa
          15 October 2020 13: 48
          0
          Well, public procurement is official information or not? When are indexes of the type 2M39, 2F39, 2A05 written in the TTZ, which uniquely identify the product?
          1. stalki
            stalki 15 October 2020 13: 51
            +1
            Well, public procurement is official information or not? When are indexes of the type 2M39, 2F39, 2A05 written in the TTZ, which uniquely identify the product?
            and in public procurement we spread the secret information?
            1. timokhin-aa
              15 October 2020 14: 02
              +1
              Is it secret? We have had problems with secrecy in the country for a long time.
              They spread the REAL information there, then OCD is carried out on it.
              According to these R&D projects, performers are looking for subcontractors, also on state purchases - and by opening your LLC, having issued an admission and a number of not very expensive licenses, you yourself can participate in the manufacture of Poseidon.

              I have been following this topic for a long time, and the author of the article generally had access to it at one time, let's say - what was thrown into the open air for reverse engineering is enough.

              This is the real level of secrecy of the project.
              1. stalki
                stalki 15 October 2020 14: 53
                0
                If at least something useful information for the enemy flashed here, believe you and the author would be taken under the hood. Although it may already be so. wink anything happens.
                1. timokhin-aa
                  15 October 2020 15: 56
                  0
                  Yes, the enemy has known everything for a long time.
                  1. Hagen
                    Hagen 16 October 2020 09: 43
                    0
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    Yes, the enemy has known everything for a long time.

                    Do you also attend their meetings? laughing
                    1. timokhin-aa
                      16 October 2020 12: 07
                      +2
                      No, but I read the specialized press.
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 15 October 2020 19: 16
              +7
              Quote: stalki
              and in public procurement we spread the secret information?

              It's Easy!
              For example, in 2019, a tender was posted for the repair of roads and bridges in the Kirov region - for a special single temporary load in the form of an eight-axle conveyor. With road map and conveyor load diagram.
              Despite the fact that in those parts before that only seven-axis monsters ran.
              Well done guys - they uncovered the rearmament of the Yars and the routes of their movement in advance.

              Well, the most epic is when a tender was posted on VIF2NE for state purchases for the maintenance of command missiles "Perimeter". Moreover, in those days when the very existence of this system was still in question. laughing
  7. Glory1974
    Glory1974 15 October 2020 10: 27
    +8
    why the small Poseidon can be detected and easily destroyed, but the boat is much larger and at a shallower depth not?
    Maybe the opposite is true?
    1. novel66
      novel66 15 October 2020 10: 44
      +1
      and now who makes a noise! lol
    2. timokhin-aa
      15 October 2020 12: 11
      +7
      No, because the volumes of the submarine make it possible to provide constructive measures to reduce noise, but there is no torpedo inside.
      In addition, Poseidon, with its negative buoyancy, needs speed in order to have lift on the hull and not drown.
      And speed and stealth are incompatible.
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 15 October 2020 14: 32
        0
        at the bottom of the pod, the volumes allow for constructive measures to reduce noise, but inside the torpedo there is no.

        Poseidon volumes are not small. It is about the size of a small (sabotage) pad. This means that measures can be taken.
        you need speed to have lift on the body and not drown.

        low-noise boats have 20 knots. How many are there, probably a secret, but even if there are 10 nodes, is it really impossible to ensure low noise?
        I'm far from the navy, but my brain refuses to believe that these are weapons and not weapons at all, but some kind of crap
        1. timokhin-aa
          15 October 2020 15: 59
          -3
          This means that measures can be taken.


          No, it doesn't. There is a photo of double depreciation of equipment on the submarine on the network, take a look.
          Then teach that the apparatus moves at great depths, where its body is compressed very strongly by pressure.

          low-noise boats have 20 knots.


          Even Virginia has a little less, there is no talk of all sorts of Ash trees, there are several times less.

          But it's not that. The boat has ballast tanks and it has zero buoyancy when needed, while Poseidon has no ballast tanks, he needs SPEED in order not to drown, otherwise there will be no lifting force on the rudders and hull.
          And speed and stealth are incompatible.
      2. Hagen
        Hagen 16 October 2020 09: 52
        -1
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        In addition, Poseidon, with its negative buoyancy, needs speed in order to have lift on the hull and not drown.

        Of course, you deny the hydrodynamic methods of maintaining buoyancy in principle, because ... there are a lot of arguments, the main one is that you know everything about the product thoroughly and better than anyone, including the authors of the project ... Aviators, too, for a while considered until they came up with a system for changing the thrust vector. What prevents this principle here? As an option...
        1. timokhin-aa
          16 October 2020 12: 09
          +1
          Of course, you deny the hydrodynamic methods of maintaining buoyancy in principle, because


          You speak for yourself.
          I do not deny, on the contrary, Poseidon's buoyancy is so ensured - due to the lifting force on the rudders and the hull.
          But it’s incompatible with stealth.
  8. cost 75
    cost 75 15 October 2020 10: 37
    +5
    It is not clear what the carriers of Poseidon are for? With its unlimited range, one could think about launching directly from the coast or even from inland rivers and not waste boats on it
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 15 October 2020 11: 20
      10
      Quote: kos 75
      It is not clear what the carriers of Poseidon are for? With its unlimited range, one could think about launching directly from the coast or even from inland rivers and not waste boats on it

      There are several options:
      - either Poseidon requires special conditions for launch;
      - either the range is still limited;
      - either the developers do not believe in the ability of the "roaring calf" to independently overcome the enemy's PLO and want to bring the launch line closer to the targets.
      1. timokhin-aa
        15 October 2020 12: 12
        +1
        - either Poseidon requires special conditions for launch;


        Yes, nobody canceled the torpedo bag - this is me in the form of a hint, if Comrade Major asks, then I invented everything.
  9. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 October 2020 10: 37
    16
    I read the comments - and everything is like the first time. As if there were no numerous explanations on this topic. As if they did not explain to each and every one that Poseidon has no fundamental advantages over an ordinary ICBM, but at least heaps of disadvantages.
    All the same, the domestic media is a force. Cheating massive
    1. Gust
      Gust 15 October 2020 11: 03
      -3
      Andrey, Poseidon has only one drawback - the inability to ensure a covert safe exit of the carrier from the base and its deployment in the patrol area. But it also refers to the SSBN. This task must be solved as soon as possible - in this Klimov is right.
      As for everything else (except for the cut) - very controversial statements. In particular, the possibility of intercepting the product at cruising speed and depth has not been substantiated. The existing torpedoes and bombs (even nuclear ones) are several times inferior in underwater speed. Therefore, interception is based on predicting the meeting point of the slower interceptor and the target. But this is a problem, since having unlimited energy, the product can go along a pseudo-random track with many turning points. And yes, even a nuclear interceptor in the water requires much higher interception accuracy for obvious reasons.
      The task is completely analogous to the interception of a maneuvering hypersonic missile system by the latest air defense systems (it has not yet been stably solved), and Klimov's even ancient nuclear warheads playfully cope with this in a similar situation at sea.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 October 2020 11: 35
        +9
        Quote: Rafale
        Andrey, Poseidon has only one drawback - the inability to ensure a covert safe exit of the carrier from the base and its deployment in the patrol area.

        Disadvantage # 2 - Poseidon on the route can be destroyed, but ICBMs cannot.
        Disadvantage # 3 - Poseidon has a long time between attack (launching a torpedo) and hitting a target.
        Disadvantage # 3 - Poseidon required huge investments in R&D and R&D, which we could use in other areas
        Quote: Rafale
        As for everything else (except for the cut) - very controversial statements. In particular, the possibility of intercepting the product at cruising speed and depth has not been substantiated. The existing torpedoes and bombs (even nuclear ones) are several times inferior in underwater speed.

        That will not stop them from intercepting the specified torpedo.
        Therefore, interception is based on predicting the meeting point of the slower interceptor and the target. But this is a problem, since having unlimited energy, the product can go along a pseudo-random track with many turning points.

        Which will obviously reduce Poseidon's speed and allow you to bring the torpedo to an acceptable distance for destruction
        The task is completely similar to the interception of a maneuvering hypersonic missile system with the latest air defense systems

        Please note that the speed of the missile defense system is significantly less than the target.
        48N6DM has a maximum (and not constant on the route) speed of 2500 m / s, and is capable of hitting targets at speeds up to 4 m / s
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 15 October 2020 13: 16
          +3
          disadvantage number 4: how to hit targets in the interior of the continent?
          5: unshared warhead
          etc...
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 October 2020 14: 04
            +3
            Quote: Tlauicol
            disadvantage number 4: how to hit targets in the interior of the continent?

            Megatsunami, of course. A height of 25 kilometers. Bubukh - and half of America washed away wassat laughing
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 15 October 2020 16: 04
            +5
            Quote: Tlauicol
            disadvantage number 4: how to hit targets in the interior of the continent?

            And what about the Great Lakes and Mississippi system? smile
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 October 2020 18: 17
              +8
              And generally speaking. In the morning Trump comes in to brush his teeth, opens the tap, and from there - Poseidon kaaaak will jump out :))))))
              1. Niel-le-Calais
                Niel-le-Calais 15 October 2020 23: 54
                -2
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                And generally speaking. In the morning Trump comes in to brush his teeth, opens the tap, and from there - Poseidon kaaaak will jump out :))))))

                gutter Poseidon ...
                Andrey, as always, with humor.
                However, for the population, it is always taken into account that the coasts with the highest population density.
                That is, it is banal to hit on the population / communications. This is the legend of the weapon.
                But deep objects inside the land --- you can of course use the delivery service in the United States of course.
                United States Postal Service straight to headquarters. Not far from Trump by the way.
                "We Deliver For You!"
                And no ABM / PLO will help.
              2. Grandfather
                Grandfather 23 October 2020 12: 19
                +1
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                And generally speaking. In the morning Trump comes in to brush his teeth, opens the tap, and from there - Poseidon kaaaak will jump out :))))))

                Chelyabinsk does not make it well ... otherwise it is cast iron ... lol
        2. Gust
          Gust 15 October 2020 15: 06
          0
          I personally like ICBMs and KRs more, but we are analyzing purely military-technical aspects, don't we?
          2. ICBMs can also be destroyed on the route (in the ascending section, generally a fat duck). Especially when the US Navy ships are in the SSBN duty area.
          3. It will be all the same to everyone when the surviving coastal cities are destroyed - in 30 minutes or 3 days after the exchange of nuclear strikes. Retribution is inevitable.
          4. Investments in ROC - I partly agree, however, if the power plant is universal (for small-sized submarines / underwater drones), and if autonomous navigation is implemented (gravimetric, TERCOM, or the like), it already pays for everything, even without nuclear warheads.
          5. How many did not ask Timokhin and Klimov to outline the interception algorithm, no reaction. Or is it such a new sect, US PLO witnesses? Once again: the problem of intercepting a maneuvering hypersonic atmospheric target in general form is still not solved... What you are writing about refers to non-maneuvering blocks of medium-range ballistic missiles. In this case, the missile defense system is displayed in proactive meeting point, and its speed is not so important, the parameter, timeliness and accuracy of the control center are important. If the control center is received, for example, 2 minutes earlier, then 1000 m / s of missiles will be enough.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 October 2020 15: 52
            0
            Quote: Rafale
            but we are examining purely military-technical aspects, aren't we?

            so i don't mind :)
            Quote: Rafale
            ICBMs can also be destroyed on the route (in the ascending section, generally a fat duck). Especially when the US Navy ships are in the SSBN duty area.

            Only on "takeoff", and then the US NC should be very close, EMNIP - about 100 km. And the Americans still will not drive their surface ships there (they have never practiced this), and in some places they cannot physically (ice). Yet their SSBN intercept functions are decided by nuclear submarines.
            And, of course, the destroyer will not swim to the ground-based strategic nuclear forces.
            Quote: Rafale
            It will be all the same to everyone when the surviving coastal cities are destroyed - 30 minutes or 3 days after the exchange of nuclear strikes. Retribution is inevitable.

            In this case, the goal will be not only the city itself as an infrastructure, but also its population. And after 3 days the population will not be there.
            Quote: Rafale
            Investments in ROC - I partly agree, however, if the power plant is universal (for small-sized submarines / underwater drones), and if autonomous navigation is implemented (gravimetric, TERCOM or the like), it already pays for everything, even without nuclear warheads.

            This installation cannot be universal, because the requirements for installing a large torpedo and for atomarina are as different as heaven and earth. This, excuse me, is the same as suggesting the same engines for planes and their rockets. An analogue of TERCOM appeared in our country in the last century. Orientation by the bottom topography, as it were, has not presented a mystery for a long time, as well as inertial systems.
            Once again: the problem of intercepting a maneuvering hypersonic atmospheric target in general has not yet been solved.

            Not resolved, I agree.
            How many did not ask Timokhin and Klimov to outline the interception algorithm, no reaction.

            I think it is more than obvious.
            Imagine yourself in the role of an interceptor torpedo, Poseidon is coming at you. In this case, in order to intercept it, it will not be important for you its speed, but the speed of change in bearing to it. That is, roughly speaking, if you are on the course of Psoeidon, it goes at a speed of 200 km / h and Poseidon suddenly turned away from you by 30 degrees to the left, then the displacement speed will be 100 km / h
            And if you are a torpedo with a speed of 65 knots (120 km / h), then you can easily intercept it
            1. SVD68
              SVD68 15 October 2020 20: 51
              +1
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              And if you are a torpedo with a speed of 65 knots (120 km / h), then you can easily intercept it

              The speed of sound in water gives some delay in determining the motion parameters. So it's not easy.
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 15 October 2020 16: 10
            +1
            Quote: Rafale
            2. ICBMs can also be destroyed on the route (in the ascending section, generally a fat duck). Especially when the US Navy ships are in the SSBN duty area.

            The solution is simple: instead of Poseidon, purchase ICBMs for the Strategic Missile Forces. They have hundreds of kilometers from the positional areas to the border, no missile defense system will reach the ascending section.
            Quote: Rafale
            4. Investments in ROC - I partly agree, however, if the power plant is universal (for small-sized submarines / underwater drones), and if autonomous navigation is implemented (gravimetric, TERCOM, or the like), it already pays for everything, even without nuclear warheads.

            There is a problem here - to reduce the MGH, the Poseidon's power plant can be made low-resource - "one way". But for underwater drones and submarines, this will not work.
          3. timokhin-aa
            15 October 2020 17: 28
            +4
            5. How many did not ask Timokhin and Klimov to explain the interception algorithm - no reaction.


            Step by step

            1. The system of passive hydrophones detects a characteristic signal from a high-speed noisy underwater object.
            2. With the help of additionally involved hydrophones, hydroacoustic reconnaissance ships, modal systems for lighting the underwater environment (such as those created by Drapes), the approximate (+ -50-100 km) location of the noisy object is determined.
            3. Aircraft of base patrol aviation are sent to the area, which precisely determine the target location, course, speed, depth.

            4. The last act of the drama - according to the established movement elements, aiming points are calculated, at which weapons are dropped at a given time - initially a torpedo to intercept a target on a head-on course, in case of failure - a nuclear depth charge. They will have five days to complete a successful attack.

            All.

            What's not clear?
            1. Gust
              Gust 15 October 2020 17: 52
              +2
              Your arguments are correct, if the mode of quiet low-noise running (sneaking) is not implemented. If implemented, then its own noises will be much less than those of the nuclear submarine (it is not clear, however, what is the speed of the product stalling) .. Therefore, the system of passive hydrophones will not help here. Detection by disturbances of the water surface will not work, by the heat trail too, magnetometers at such a depth and size of an object are useless. All that remains is a fence made of active systems of illumination of the underwater situation along the perimeter (or along the borders of NATO ASW).
              Even if the product successfully hits the order and it is worked off with a torpedo, it is possible to turn it away and the torpedo will lag behind on the catch-up course, then it breaks away from the order and returns to low noise mode.
              I will repeat once more - from a purely military-technical point of view, the product makes sense only when implementing a hidden exit to the patrolling area of ​​the carrier and the low-noise mode of the apparatus itself.
              1. timokhin-aa
                15 October 2020 18: 00
                +3
                if the mode of quiet low-noise running (sneaking) is not implemented. If implemented,


                To do this, the product must maintain zero buoyancy at low speed, without lift on the rudders and hull.
                And for this, the product, with the dimensions known from the photo, should not have very large weight, which can even be calculated, starting from the banal formula of Archimedes.
                But the requirement to provide, in a given volume, the weight of the product, reduced and sufficient for zero buoyancy, contradicts the TTZ for the conveyor car, which has got into open access and from which the minimum mass of the product clearly follows.
                This means no zero buoyancy.
                This means "from 50 knots and uphill" or drown. This is indirectly confirmed by the fact that the product needs a carrier, that is, a coastal torpedo tube will not work. Why is clear right away.
                So - see my comment above.
                1. Gust
                  Gust 15 October 2020 18: 29
                  +3
                  I would not be so categorical. For a product weight of 100 tons and a low-noise speed of 24 knots, wings with an area of ​​about 16,7 square meters are required. m with an angle of attack of 10 degrees without taking into account the lifting force of the hull. Taking into account the latter figure, about 14 sq. m. Technically, it is quite possible to place retractable surfaces on a product with a length of 20 m and a diameter of 1,8.
                  1. timokhin-aa
                    16 October 2020 12: 10
                    0
                    We will not show the nuclear reactor conventionally.
                    It is already twice the size of the Mace, where else?
      2. timokhin-aa
        15 October 2020 12: 13
        +1
        The existing torpedoes and bombs (even nuclear ones) are several times inferior in underwater speed.


        And what does it matter on a collision course?
    2. timokhin-aa
      15 October 2020 12: 46
      +5
      All the same, the domestic media is a force. Cheating massive


      And then some Turkey piles on us and the same hordes will climb to storm the Kremlin, to the delight of the Amers, Britons and everyone else. "We are deceived !!!!!" ... Our people are hopeless in my opinion. Many of them, let's put it this way.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 October 2020 13: 07
        +1
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        .Our people are hopeless in my opinion.

        The law of psychology. A crowd of Einsteins and a crowd of homeless people behave the same ...
        1. timokhin-aa
          15 October 2020 13: 37
          +2
          But gathering a crowd of Einsteins is another thing.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 15 October 2020 14: 03
            0
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            But gathering a crowd of Einsteins is another thing.

            That's for sure :))) For some unclear reason, the Einsteins, disgusting, do not go in crowds laughing
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 15 October 2020 16: 12
            0
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            But gathering a crowd of Einsteins is another thing.

            At least twice it succeeded. smile
            1. Snail N9
              Snail N9 15 October 2020 17: 50
              -2
              Cobalt bomb. On your territory, you don't need any "Poseidons" at all ...
        2. Niel-le-Calais
          Niel-le-Calais 16 October 2020 00: 00
          -2
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          The law of psychology. A crowd of Einsteins and a crowd of homeless people behave the same ..

          So any individual can dissolve in the crowd, no matter how educated and intelligent the individual is, apart from the crowd. After all, the mind is turned off.
          Therefore, patriotism is brought up as a herd feeling. HE depersonalizes everyone, evoking animal feelings.
          1. Oprichnik
            Oprichnik 16 October 2020 00: 42
            +1
            Kalu: An individual without patriotism is not a person, but a bunch ...
            1. timokhin-aa
              16 October 2020 12: 11
              +1
              What do you think of those who are patriots but have no brains? Can a mindless patriot be considered human, or is it almost human?
    3. Voyager
      Voyager 17 October 2020 19: 27
      -1
      Excuse me, but what to explain if the local "know-it-alls" if only their personal guesses? For all the time, not a single constructive critical comment on the topic "Why Poseidon is needed and should not exist" has not been heard here. No real proof of error involved in the development. Taking into account the quantity and quality of the information available, there can be no such comments now objectively. As a result, we have "facts" from Timokhin in the spirit of "And Baba Yaga is against", but this is so-so argumentation.
  10. ism_ek
    ism_ek 15 October 2020 10: 54
    -1
    The same "Belgorod" had every chance to strike at ISIS (prohibited in Russia) in Syria with its 72+ cruise missiles (subject to modernization according to Project 949AM).
    The Americans fired more than 100 missiles at Syria at the same time in 2018. What have you achieved? These huge slow-moving "cows" from the 20th century are not particularly needed by anyone now.
    1. set of sets
      set of sets 15 October 2020 11: 11
      +1
      “The same“ Belgorod ”had every chance to strike at ISIS (prohibited in Russia) in Syria with its 72+ cruise missiles (subject to modernization according to Project 949AM).

      As for ISIS, it is not economically feasible to use rockets at all. If only as a test. And so for them bombs of the Second World War are enough.
      Missiles must be thrashed wherever the developed air defense missile defense is.
      You don't have to be a military man to understand this. Some kind of stupidity.
    2. timokhin-aa
      15 October 2020 12: 14
      +3
      It depends on how you choose the goals. Poseidon, what gives besides spending money and the risks of an accident?
  11. Pushkowed
    Pushkowed 15 October 2020 11: 37
    0
    The ability to break through "Statuses" to targets can only be ensured in the event of a massive nuclear destruction of anti-submarine warfare elements in a theater of operations ("boil the sea"). The question arises as to the expediency of such a solution to the problem, taking into account the fact that in the foreseeable future, strategic warheads will reliably hit their targets with classical means ... "Status-6" / "Poseidon" does not have any military meaning.
    If there are only a few targets, if the only obstacles on the way to them are only ASW forces and ocean distances, if these targets (due to their stealth and mobility) cannot be hit with strategic warheads ...

    In short, if the targets are enemy SSBNs in combat service, and we strike the first blow.
    1. timokhin-aa
      15 October 2020 12: 15
      +4
      It's not even funny. He needs several days to cut to the SSBN roaring across the ocean. And how will he find them? There is a sonar and brains like a Tetris toy.
      1. Pushkowed
        Pushkowed 15 October 2020 12: 41
        +1
        If the first blow is struck, you can start it in advance.
        The main part of the route is done at a quiet pace.
        The patrol areas of SSBNs (at least approximately) are revealed by reconnaissance, then the SPA itself is combed out according to a pre-laid program.
        Only act in a pack.
        In the presence of an SBS, a direct hit is not necessary.
        1. timokhin-aa
          15 October 2020 12: 44
          +7
          The enemy learns about the launch of this thing 5 days before it approaches the target.

          You tell God you were born yesterday. Follow the links in the text, everything is explained there.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 15 October 2020 13: 11
            +8
            Alexander, you have once again swung at the sacred thing for every Russian hamster - "in peace there will be no analogous one, capable of zeroing in all the world." This is about the same as trying to take away the Kaaba from the faithful.
            1. timokhin-aa
              15 October 2020 13: 17
              +6
              This is Klimov. His article.
              I didn't want to approach this rotten topic.
              Judging by the comments, I didn't want to, the people fell into oblivion again, but they reminded the people what and how.
              1. Motorist
                Motorist 15 October 2020 16: 49
                +4
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                This is Klimov. His article.

                Hello. How can it be: the author - written - Klimov, and you have the author's nickname? Several people on one account? Is that allowed? Sincerely. hi
                1. timokhin-aa
                  15 October 2020 17: 16
                  +2
                  I just posted material that I am not the author of. You can do this if the article is not in electronic media and the author is indicated and does not object to publication. Previously, it was possible without any restrictions.
              2. Demagogue
                Demagogue 17 October 2020 15: 41
                0
                the people again fell into oblivion, but they reminded the people what and how.


                It is useful for Fraers to communicate with a thug, he, unlike them, knows life))

                And this topic will not go anywhere, since it has been approved by the highest. It's useless to fight.
        2. tlauicol
          tlauicol 15 October 2020 13: 18
          +5
          Quote: Pushkowed
          If the first blow is struck, you can start it in advance.
          The main part of the route is done at a quiet pace.
          .

          in LA it is called "stall speed", and this Miracle Yudo will simply drown
  12. iouris
    iouris 15 October 2020 14: 14
    +2
    The territorial integrity of the Russian Federation is reliably protected by an amendment to the Constitution of the Russian Federation, and there was no such protective article in the Constitution of the USSR.
    1. teron
      teron 15 October 2020 16: 54
      +2
      When the USSR was being brought down, the national leaders in the republics leaned on the entire constitution of the USSR. Fundamentally. A law not backed up by force is not a law.
  13. Glory1974
    Glory1974 15 October 2020 14: 37
    +2
    It is necessary to launch such things into space. Let it fly overhead. everyone sees him, everyone can knock him down ....... what if something goes wrong. Nobody will touch him, including us. And to warn everyone that we press the button once every 15 minutes, if we do not press it, then the whole world will be thrown into dust.
    1. teron
      teron 15 October 2020 16: 52
      -3
      The article is written correctly - you don't need to launch anything anywhere. No Poseidons, missile carriers, ICBMs, etc. etc. Take and shy away everything that is right on your territory. My opinion is that no one on the planet will leave offended.
  14. Gust
    Gust 15 October 2020 16: 40
    +2
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    I think it is more than obvious.
    Imagine yourself in the role of an interceptor torpedo, Poseidon is coming at you. In this case, in order to intercept it, it will not be important for you its speed, but the speed of change in bearing to it. That is, roughly speaking, if you are on the course of Psoeidon, it goes at a speed of 200 km / h and Poseidon suddenly turned away from you by 30 degrees to the left, then the displacement speed will be 100 km / h
    And if you are a torpedo with a speed of 65 knots (120 km / h), then you can easily intercept it

    Then there are no problems with the interception of Vanguard and hypersonic missile launchers. If the Vanguard comes at you, turns it 3 degrees to the left (you can't do much, the available overloads will not allow), then the displacement speed will be 370 m / s, and the interception does not pose a problem even for the Shell or the Iron Dome;)). And why is there so much fuss around them ...
    1. timokhin-aa
      15 October 2020 17: 19
      -3
      Then there are no problems with the interception of Vanguard and hypersonic missile launchers.


      Hypersound interception topic is covered here
      https://vz.ru/society/2020/10/12/1064780.html

      The B-100 interceptor missile, which in the USSR shot down ballistic targets, was twice as slow as its targets, but successfully shot them down.
      1. Gust
        Gust 15 October 2020 17: 28
        +1
        Ballistic targets that were lost then and are lost now- non-maneuvering... Having received the control center in advance, you can pour out a bucket of steel balls from the plane and violate the integrity of the warhead. The ability to maneuver radically changes the situation. With a sufficiently large parameter, the missile defense system will not have enough speed and / or energy. The only way out is the picket fence from the missile defense systems in all threatened directions, which is unrealistic.
        1. timokhin-aa
          15 October 2020 18: 46
          -3
          Yes, but where did you see a maneuvering target with a speed of M = 5 +?
          Nowhere.
  15. Gust
    Gust 15 October 2020 16: 53
    +1
    It turns out somehow interesting - it is possible to detect AUG in the ocean only by chance and then with a lot of luck (not to mention defeat), and NATO PLO forces are on duty under each coral and even 100 tons of the device in a quiet run and a mile will not go towards Florida , for example ;))
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 15 October 2020 18: 52
      +4
      Quote: Rafale
      It turns out somehow interesting - it is possible to detect AUG in the ocean only by chance and then with a lot of luck (not to mention defeat), and NATO PLO forces are on duty under each coral and even 100 tons of the device in a quiet run and a mile will not go towards Florida , for example ;))

      Everything is correct. Because the detection lines of our submarines are maximally taken out to our borders. Even in Soviet times, the PLO line in the Atlantic passed through the Faroes and Iceland.
      But we cannot boast of such happiness - we have to monitor their AUG from our territory. And not being able to cover their scouts for the full radius.

      In addition, NATO has been dealing with the issue of combating Soviet submarines since the 50s of the last century. Having accumulated considerable experience and technical base during this time. And we don't even have MRA and RC machines anymore. sad
  16. Alexander X
    Alexander X 15 October 2020 17: 25
    0
    Based on what I've read: 1. Poseidon has virtually unlimited range.
    2. Poseidon is significantly smaller than any submarine.
    Then: Release Poseidon from any river / grotto / from sleeping mode at the bottom near the enemy's borders / from the hold of a bulk carrier ... etc. and yeah ... Well, then do not run into submarines to intercept Poseidons from all directions. There won't be enough anti-submarine aircraft to detect the Poseidon swarm.
    Maybe this is his advantage? IMHO ...
    1. timokhin-aa
      15 October 2020 18: 47
      -1
      No, re-read all the comments, there the issue is solved, including with search and destruction.
  17. Old26
    Old26 15 October 2020 17: 38
    +7
    Quote: Rafale
    2. ICBMs can also be destroyed on the route (in the ascending section, generally a fat duck). Especially when the US Navy ships are in the SSBN duty area.

    Dear Valery !!! If we are already on a military resource, then let's use the existing terminology. Otherwise, some of your statements, as the above "hits in the eyes."
    <br>• ICBMs is a ground-based intercontinental ballistic missile (silo, mobile ground, rail). This also applies to other missiles bearing the designation MRBM, BRMD.
    • The boat rocket has the designation SLBM, which stands for submarine ballistic missile.
    In theory, yes, theoretically, SLBMs can be hit by SM-3 Block 1B and Block 2A interceptor missiles from ships. And it is even theoretically impossible to hit a launching ICBM. And not because the same SM-3 Block 1B and especially the SM-3 Block 2A have a short range or height reach. It's just that all the MBR bases are located far from the possible base and after 3-6 minutes, still being over the territory of Russia, 400-700 km from the launch site and at altitudes of 250-400 km, they cease to be a single whole. All that remains of them is the deployed warheads and decoys. And hitting a target with a length of, well, let's say 1,5 meters is not at all like hitting a rocket with a length of 23-30 meters


    Quote: Rafale
    3. It will be all the same to everyone when the surviving coastal cities are destroyed - in 30 minutes or 3 days after the exchange of nuclear strikes. Retribution is inevitable.

    It is unlikely that when Poseidon reaches the point of detonation, these coastal cities will be safe and sound. Large cities are not only residents, but also a developed maritime infrastructure (shipyards, ports), these are military-industrial complex enterprises. Such targets will most likely be of high priority so as not to give the enemy time to deploy forces and assets. That is, with almost a 100% guarantee, it will be wasted money. These cities will be destroyed by the first wave of ICBMs or SLBMs


    Quote: Rafale
    What you are writing about refers to non-maneuvering blocks of medium-range ballistic missiles. In this case, the missile defense system is displayed at the anticipated meeting point, and its speed is not so important, the parameter, timeliness and accuracy of the control center are important. If the control center is received, for example, 2 minutes earlier, then 1000 m / s of missiles will be enough.

    This is applicable both when intercepting an ICBM BB and when intercepting maneuvering warheads. The only difference is the outfit of strength. And if 2 interceptor missiles are enough to intercept NUBB ICBMs, then for UBB their number may be more, for example, 4 or 5, or more ...
  18. Sergey Sfiedu
    Sergey Sfiedu 15 October 2020 19: 55
    +6
    The conclusions of the article are obvious! But the people so need a peremoga! And oligarchs and generals need budget money so much! So, unnecessary and even harmful super torpedo - to be! And the necessary PLA, accordingly - not to be. That's all. I do not think that the country's leadership is so incompetent that it does not understand the flaw in the project. Understands. But he continues to invest money in it so that the right people get it. Which once again proves that the war with the West is going on only in the minds of the victims of the zombie box, and smart people make money on this so-called "war" ..
  19. SVD68
    SVD68 15 October 2020 21: 02
    0
    The question of Poseidon's expediency lies in the relationship between the cost of the Poseidon program and the cost of countermeasures.
  20. Burdock
    Burdock 15 October 2020 22: 13
    +1
    It's not about the fact that this torpedo is not needed, but about the fact that there are much more important directions. The same UAV, Su-57, Armata and the like. It's like coming to a gun store to buy a gun, to guard the house, to hunt, and instead of him, they offer a tank, and what, if you want to hunt, you want to protect yourself. The tank will be more powerful. In the USSR, this idea was abandoned, but then planning in military research was at a much higher level than it is now.
    1. AML
      AML 16 October 2020 00: 01
      +1
      Are there free shipyards in Russia? Or is the status harvested at a dry plant? If we remove the main message that everything is cut, then, no matter how the author puffed up, the article is nothing. It is strange that he didn’t offer to give the money to pensioners, I probably forgot.
    2. Boris ⁣ Shaver
      Boris ⁣ Shaver 16 October 2020 01: 57
      +2
      Quote: Burdock
      there are much more important directions

      This needs to be proven. And for evidence, one should operate with the entire completeness of facts. Moreover, to operate precisely with the use of the head, and not with the help of that place, next to which you feel your half-empty wallet. Evidence based on guesses, gossip and far-fetched facts (namely, I sadly observe such an arsenal in this group of authors), supported by an absurd pathos (stemming from an unhealthy sense of self-greatness, hurt, at the same time, by the underestimation of others) is not evidence , but cheap propaganda of someone's expensive interests.
  21. Boris ⁣ Shaver
    Boris ⁣ Shaver 16 October 2020 00: 37
    +1
    satisfying scientific curiosity

    If it were not for "scientific curiosity", you would not have sprinkled statkyki on VO today, but with a digging stick you would loosen your own piece of land in the sweat of your brow near your native cave, girding yourself with the skin of a bear. And in modern realities to "satisfy scientific curiosity" there are not enough feathers and sticks, and a couple of unnecessary serfs - in modern conditions it costs money and not small. How can you cry constantly about a backward industry without realizing that the basis of any modern production is based on money invested in science?
    In general, it is silly to give this phrase a negative connotation. Think of another term better.
    1. timokhin-aa
      16 October 2020 12: 12
      +1
      When, instead of this, a small-sized nuclear power plant with a long service life will begin to be made on the basis of the existing reserve, I agree with you.
      In the meantime, this is precisely the satisfaction of curiosity.
  22. Angelo Provolone
    Angelo Provolone 16 October 2020 02: 18
    +3
    According to incomprehensible sources, the author found out the weight and decided that the super torpedo goes only "along the plane." Well, tell the author exactly what the weight of the "super torpedo" is. Is it equal to the weight of the displaced water? Do not want to say, then the author will muddy the waters in the ranks of the sofa experts.
    If the "super torpedo" is launched, then of course it will be immediately detected - this is an axiom. Well, we do not have false goals to which the numerous forces of potential friends will be diverted. It doesn't matter. The main thing is to satisfy the curiosity of the author.

    In fact:
    1. The article contains a photo of "accidentally illuminated super torpedo".
    2. Unhappy journalist.
    3. Incomprehensible submarine.

    Все.
  23. Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 16 October 2020 02: 23
    -1
    5. "Status-6" / "Poseidon" does not have any military meaning (other than negative), it is highly questionable politically.
    In my opinion, he is not just politically dubious, but breaks through the bottom.
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. Sergey Pavlov
    Sergey Pavlov 16 October 2020 03: 29
    +1
    Interesting article. The question arises: are the designers of this brainchild so incompetent that they do not understand the simplicity of intercepting Poseidon with weapons in service with the United States (this is if we consider the fact of a constant speed of 100 knots at a depth of 1 km and a significant negative buoyancy of the device)
    If you think about it, it would make much more sense to create an UUV with zero buoyancy with a variable pitch propeller or a water cannon and a gearbox capable of moving under water at a variable speed more or less stealthily (while a maximum depth of 1 km is not at all necessary, since it requires a stronger one, consequently heavier hull), with an exit to maximum speed at the last line, when the target is already close.
    Although, of course, I am against this device, since the very concept of its use is delusional, it smells like a weapon of a dead hand ..
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 16 October 2020 06: 34
      +5
      And this is so - incompetence is now elevated to the rank of "obligation" in Russia at any place. In Russia, people were disaccustomed to work - at the very top of management they are not interested in the end result, but in cutting the funds allocated or received from the client, and with minimal costs for this, absolutely incompetent people were placed in the management of companies and enterprises, guided only by personal loyalty and family ties , specialists who demanded the performance of work in accordance with GOST, OTS, TU and in general the quality were removed as they irritate the management, the lower level of performers was reduced to the level of cattle with meager salaries and mixing them with gaster from different churkestans. Instead of performing work according to the terms of reference, everywhere they try to cheat, steal, cheat, cheat, save money, etc., take, for example, one company where I worked, it started in the early 2000s with 6 - three people of staff, and 4 people were loaders. Now there are already 18 people in it, of which .... 4 people are loaders, but they cannot cope and the head of the warehouse constantly helps them. Ask what the other 14 people are doing? One-as was the owner and remains, the second-the head of the warehouse, who works like hell, the other 12 people .... do nothing. They are simply on the balance sheet - these are all the relatives and acquaintances of the owner of the company, who have invented positions in the "departments" - the type of "economic department", "transport department", "planning department", "sales department", etc. - all these functions, such as was carried out by the head of the warehouse, and he does, and even helps to unload the cars with an electric car. It's also cool - in the company, when she started working, the movers received a salary, if translated into foreign currency, then about 1200 USD, now they receive about 460 USD. (If rubles are converted into dollars) ..... That is, it turns out that over ten years, the salary of a loader in this company in dollar terms, not only has not grown, it has decreased almost 3 times! This company is a typical example of any company-enterprise in Russia. sad
  26. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 16 October 2020 08: 49
    -1
    One gets the impression that the author of this article, and even a number of "super super specialists", was strangled by a toad that they do not have access to real developments and funding
    1. timokhin-aa
      20 October 2020 11: 05
      +4
      One gets the impression that when Pasadena was swaggering over the submarine with the author in the CP in combat service as she wanted, he greatly regretted that our country was not spending money on modern torpedoes or on modern SPSJ.
      And then, having become a leading designer on the subject of MPO and having received the appropriate admission, I learned about the "Status-6" project
  27. Rusticolus
    Rusticolus 16 October 2020 09: 47
    -5
    author you are absolutely bobo head? fool
    Or you are just pretending? That is, to drown Russian SLBMs with nuclear mines only when they are on alert near our shores, this is normal, no Geneva conventions are needed, these are the most democratic and harmless nuclear weapons, so is it even more so, in order to mirror-shoot down several NATO UAVs that left their airspace. And we will shoot them down at once by the Sarmatians, but what, they will. and the fact that on the way some kind of nangliya blows away, it does not count. So on your chtoli? Quite already "that" apparently. Go ltschshe kill yourself against the wall, otherwise you harm the environment by spoiling the air.
    1. timokhin-aa
      16 October 2020 12: 14
      +1
      That is, to sink Russian BLPs with nuclear mines


      The article contained nuclear depth charges and nuclear torpedoes destroyed by them, you confused.
  28. pereselenec
    pereselenec 16 October 2020 10: 58
    +2
    SPA "Poseidon" / "Status-6". To the detriment of real defenses

    The trick is that weapons of the "Poseidon" / "Status-6" level either will never be used at all, or if they are used, then in the course of a destructive global atomic war for humanity. So you can tell all sorts of tales about atomic alienation, even about the fact that we will burn Fashington with a cosmic ray - in peacetime, no one will check, and if an atomic war starts, then there will be no time for demand from bureaucrats. This is not a take out drone / aircraft carrier. Here you can get off with cartoons, sweetly sawing the loot on the project, without even bothering to build a mass-sized model.
    1. timokhin-aa
      20 October 2020 11: 02
      +3
      As for the layouts, you are wrong - there are already a lot of them, up to the throw ones, which have already been shot.
      Only there is no sense in this.
  29. Roman070280
    Roman070280 16 October 2020 11: 16
    -1
    Competent article ..
    I don't even want to add anything ..
  30. Lord
    Lord 17 October 2020 10: 48
    -1
    Complete Crap
    1. timokhin-aa
      20 October 2020 11: 00
      +1
      But essentially there is something to argue?
  31. Russian2020
    Russian2020 17 October 2020 23: 04
    -1
    Liberas are furious, their money was stolen again
    1. timokhin-aa
      20 October 2020 10: 59
      +5
      The money was stolen from the Aerospace Forces, the army and the navy. To Poseidon.
  32. Note
    Note 18 October 2020 16: 31
    0
    A very slippery topic. Even commenting is somewhat difficult, due to the feeling of trouble coming from her. Reasonable people will understand everything themselves. But the author of the article maneuvers by omitting details. Why? Everyone will decide for himself.
    1. timokhin-aa
      20 October 2020 10: 58
      +4
      Do you know how many times for this topic both me and the author - Klimov - were threatened with landing?
      1. Note
        Note 22 October 2020 15: 34
        0
        I don't know about threats and criminal liability, but it's strange what they publish in general on the resource. At the same time, several points in the article and some of the comments are very interesting. Key points. There are, of course, considerations, and knowledge with an understanding of this topic. But I will not express my opinion. Here and now. Why, I already said.
  33. Old shoe
    Old shoe 18 October 2020 18: 00
    -4
    Fun with the article
    1. AVA77
      AVA77 19 October 2020 08: 29
      -4
      What is there to smell, stinks. The author apparently knows exactly what is the current course of the tetradrachm to the Dolar.
    2. timokhin-aa
      20 October 2020 10: 57
      +5
      Poseidon's Witness Sect of the Last Days
  34. Galleon
    Galleon 19 October 2020 14: 37
    +3
    Quote: Serg4545
    Well, it immediately occurred to me:
    Poseidon stops at a depth of 1 km. Launches a buoy on the cable. When the buoy comes to the surface, it receives location data from GPS / Glonas. And that's it!

    It immediately occurred to me - and that's it !!
    So the immortal is recalled: "and from buoy to buoy he saw ... nothing"... And that's it!
    Where is the sense of self-control? After all, an adult!
  35. uncle Vlad
    uncle Vlad 20 October 2020 18: 12
    0
    Of course, I'm not against the Mosin rifle and the Maxim machine gun, but the article is chaotic and clearly ordered. The boy definitely played an agent of crowd influence. This is when a crowd of boys runs and shouts “bad, everything is bad.” All according to Sun Tzu's “Art of War”. As in the text., For the propagandists of the enemy .- "Let them shout in the bazaars that their commanders are fat and thieves. The horses are bad and the sabers are stupid" something like that.
    1. timokhin-aa
      23 October 2020 13: 16
      0
      No lala. Do you really have anything to object? Can you justify the benefits and meaning of the project?
      1. 3danimal
        3danimal 25 October 2020 12: 58
        0
        I think the main argument (which may not be voiced, but is implied) is “the bosses know better, they have a bigger head”. Like, once they decided, then this is the only correct option. It's always easier to donate.