Military Review

Project "Baikal". Modern replacement for An-2

162

Serial An-2. Photo Wikimedia Commons


At present, hundreds of An-2 light multipurpose aircraft (LMS) remain in operation. With all its advantages, this technique is morally outdated, and in addition, most of the machines will soon run out of service. For many years, the issue of replacing these aircraft has been worked out, but real results are still lacking. Since last year, in order to replace the An-2, a new project of the LMS "Baikal" has been developed.

Finding a replacement


Modern история creation of a replacement for the An-2 begins with the work of the Siberian Research Institute aviation them. S.A. Chaplygin (FGUP SibNIA). In the recent past, the institute presented several projects of the TVS-2 family, which provided for a deep modernization of the original machine.

Initially, it was proposed remotorization using turboprop engines, and then it came to rebuilding the airframe and other major changes. So, in the last TVS-2DTS project, a completely new composite airframe was used, which retained only an external resemblance to the basic design. According to the TVS-2AM / MS / DT / DTS projects, a small series of aircraft was built, most of which remain in operation.

In early 2019, the Ministry of Industry and Trade revised plans to create a new LMS. SibNIA projects were considered unsuccessful due to the high share of imported components, excessive complexity and incomplete compliance with airworthiness standards. As a result, a new competition is being held for the development of a promising aircraft with the code "Baikal".


Turboprop composite aircraft TVS-2MS. Photo Vitalykuzmin.net

In September, the Ural Civil Aviation Plant (UZGA) became the winner of the competition. However, just a few days later, the results of the competition were canceled, and then the contract was transferred to a subsidiary of UZGA - LLC Baikal-Engineering. The corresponding contract is worth 1,25 billion rubles. was signed on October 17, 2019.

Plans and deeds


Under the terms of last year's contract, no later than December 2020, the development company had to submit technical documentation and the first prototype for static tests. Then a flight prototype had to be built; tests of experimental equipment were scheduled for 2021. In the next 2022, they were going to carry out certification, and in 2023 serial production may begin.

At the end of February this year, it became known that the UZGA would be engaged in the construction of an experimental LMS "Baikal". By that time, the plant had completed a mock-up of the cockpit, which received the customer's approval. At the same time, some of the technical features of the project were revealed, showing the main approaches to development. Later it became known about the development of a new turboprop engine specially for "Baikal".

New information about the construction appeared in early October. According to the Ministry of Industry and Trade, the first experienced LMS will be submitted for testing within the next few weeks. The checks will be carried out on the basis of the Moscow Aviation Institute.


The proposed appearance of the LMS "Baikal". Graphics "Baikal-Engineering" / UZGA

Technical features


There are several basic requirements for the LMS "Baikal" project. So, the car should be made from domestically produced units. The passenger cabin must accommodate 14 people. or 1500 kg of cargo and maximally repeat the configuration of the An-2 cabin. You also need the ability to re-equip the aircraft to perform different tasks. The cruising speed was set at 300 km / h, the flight range with normal cargo was at least 1500 km.

The aircraft must operate at temperatures from -50 ° C to + 55 ° C and use unpaved airfields. The maximum take-off / run length is 200 m. With the basic composition of on-board radio-electronic equipment "Baikal" should operate up to 73 ° north latitude. The cost of the car was limited to 120 million rubles, the cost of a flight hour - 30 thousand rubles.

Taking into account such requirements, "Baikal-Engineering" offers a turboprop all-metal monoplane with a high wing. The airframe is made of aluminum alloys, which reduces the cost and labor intensity of its manufacture, and also provides an advantageous combination of operational and technical characteristics. Composite units were abandoned due to the high complexity of manufacturing and repair.

The new "Baikal" will be a monoplane. By abandoning the second wing, it was possible to reduce the weight of the structure to the required level without loss in flight performance. In the published images, the wing has a rectangular center section and consoles with a slight sweep. The struts were used, partially unloading the center section.


Side view. Graphics "Baikal-Engineering" / UZGA

LMS will be equipped with a VK-800S engine with a capacity of 800 hp. and an AB-410V propeller. Until the appearance of a finished engine, the use of foreign motors with suitable parameters is not excluded. To simplify remotorization, uniform attachment points are used.

The fuselage of "Baikal" was able to accommodate a passenger compartment with a length of 4,9 m and a width of approx. 1,5 m and 1,67 m high. The door for boarding people or delivering goods is located on the left side in the tail. For greater ease of landing, the floor behind it is made inclined: the aircraft in the parking lot raises its nose, and such a floor is in a horizontal position, facilitating boarding or loading.

The issues of improving safety are being worked out. Thus, the aircraft can receive two standby electric motors with a capacity of 100 kW. If the main power plant fails, they will allow flight and landing. The possibility of installing a parachute system capable of providing a safe landing for the entire aircraft is also being considered.

The length of the future "Baikal" will be at the level of 12,2 m with a wingspan of 16,5 m and a height of 3,7 m. The maximum take-off weight is 4,8 tons. Flight performance and other characteristics meet or exceed customer requirements.

Needs and opportunities


The main task of the LMS "Baikal" project is to replace the An-2 aircraft that are still in operation and are close to the end of their service life. In addition, such a technique will be able to squeeze out newer samples of close classes, incl. foreign production.


"Baikal" in flight. So far, only in the picture. Graphics "Baikal-Engineering" / UZGA

According to calculations, in the first five years after certification, the potential demand for LMS can reach 220-230 units. It is not known what part of such market needs will be covered by Baikal, but there is every reason for optimism. In addition, it is obvious that after the end of this period the demand for "Baikals" will remain and may lead to new orders.

However, so far we are talking only about calculations and plans. The signing of real contracts for the supply of equipment has not yet been reported. Apparently, orders for "Baikal" will appear only after the start of tests or later - when it will be possible to assess the real capabilities of the aircraft and draw the main conclusions.

Difficulties of replacement


Soon, static tests of an experienced glider will begin, and already in 2022-23. promising "Baikal" can go into series. It is expected that such an aircraft will find its place in regional transportation and replace outdated equipment. However, the experience of recent decades shows that it is quite difficult to create a replacement for the old, but still relevant An-2.

An-2, developed in the late forties, was quite simple and cheap to manufacture, which made it possible to build it in a large series. The plane with this or that equipment could carry people and cargo, carry special equipment, etc. An-2 presented minimal infrastructure requirements. The work could be carried out from small unpaved airfields, and regular maintenance and minor repairs did not require the involvement of aircraft repair enterprises. All this contributed to the widespread use of such aircraft and active operation in various fields.


LMS will be able to work in different conditions. Graphics "Baikal-Engineering" / UZGA

In the future, aircraft construction technologies developed, but simultaneously with the characteristics of aircraft, the cost of construction and operation grew. As a result, the creation of a modern LMS with parameters at the An-2 level is a very difficult task. All difficulties of this kind are shown by the history of TVS-2 projects from SibNIA. With important advantages, this technique turned out to be disadvantageous for mass production and use.

The new Baikal project is being developed not only using modern technologies and components, but also taking into account previous failures. This increases its chances of successful completion and entry into service. However, the results of the project are still unknown. The first conclusions can be made only after the start of the tests, scheduled for next year.
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 14 October 2020 05: 11
    +4
    The idea is good and really necessary. It will not be possible to modernize "annushki" endlessly. Everything depends on finances, as I understand it ...
    And the graphics pleased, especially the one on which the plane looks like a soaring seagull)))
    1. Far B
      Far B 14 October 2020 05: 27
      21
      If it turns out to create something similar to the An-2 for the 21st century, it will be great. And then our people got sick of flying the L-410. They are unreliable, bastards. And they beat periodically. But...
      Under the terms of last year's contract, no later than December 2020, the development company had to submit technical documentation and the first prototype for static tests. Then a flight prototype had to be built; tests of experimental equipment were scheduled for 2021. In the next 2022, they were going to carry out certification, and in 2023 serial production may begin
      Chuykoy sense that the dates will shift, shift and shift. As we have in the past 30 years, in fact, is constantly happening. So how many years (decades) people will, swearing and sweating, fly on elks - it is generally impossible to predict.
      Everything depends on finances, as I understand it
      I would say that it all comes down to defective managers. For finance in the country is at least a dime a dozen (well, in any case, we are constantly told about this with honest eyes).
      1. Sergey_G_M
        Sergey_G_M 14 October 2020 05: 58
        23
        It's not just about finance.
        SibNIA projects were considered unsuccessful due to the high share of imported components

        Less than a hundred years have passed since the leadership in aviation began to guess something. laughing
      2. Nazar
        Nazar 14 October 2020 16: 54
        12
        Dalny - Managers are defective, it really is a brake on everything. And plus to where to get the designers? The old ones are gone, and the new ones (the victims of the exam) work something like this: "O-Kay Googl, how to design an aircraft for local airlines? ..." Will you slander young people? And look at the Super-Tin 100 - the REGIONAL aircraft is designed so that the engines are 0,5 meters from the runway, all the dust and sand are sucked into them - where is it from? And from Boeing copied from the tyrnet downloaded. IL114 - Uzbekistan (!!!!!) mass-produced, all the documentation is there - and there is not a single flight model of the 114th in Russia, for several years they have been "working" but still nothing. IL 112th - gave birth to a freak, also downloaded two projects and thoughtlessly blinded them together, Ch. the designer (technologist in general by his specialty) directly said that the reason for the failure of the project is the low qualifications of the developers.
        At our aircraft plant, even now, they are ready to assemble a new "maize", but from what? There is no domestic engine, and in the foreseeable future it will not be with such specialists. Well, I still understand a new engine for a fighter - not all of a sudden and not immediately, but how did it turn out that in the Russian Federation even a corn plant does not have its own engine ... for that is, the Ministry of Industry and Trade, I don't know how "Torg", but "Prom" from Manturov - no. request
        1. Metlik
          Metlik 14 October 2020 19: 28
          0
          So that the SibNIA project does not seem "unnecessarily complicated" to the officials from the ministry, it is necessary to invite a person with an engineering education there, so that he would explain to the managers what was what.
          1. Captain Nemo
            Captain Nemo 14 October 2020 21: 24
            +7
            Reverse selection is not limited to ministries. SibNIA also. Explain why a cheap plane for local airlines needs a biplane scheme without braces and struts? That's right - so that the wings become several times heavier than the Soviet ones. And no supercomposite will fix overweight. But the cost of the life cycle will sharply overestimate. Where can you get rich passengers? Or did SibNIA design an aircraft for other niches? Well then, don't position it as a replacement for the An-2.
            Without a domestic line of piston and turboprop engines with mass production under the strict patronage of the state, not only light civil aviation is in question, but also military drones.
      3. chingachguc
        chingachguc 15 October 2020 17: 05
        +2
        why is L-410 unreliable?
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 14 October 2020 05: 48
      0
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      And the graphics pleased, especially the one on which the plane looks like a soaring seagull)))

      You need the charts, and the design is the tenth thing. crying
      1. Mikhail Tynda
        Mikhail Tynda 14 October 2020 06: 21
        0
        Someone said, I do not remember, unfortunately, that a well-flying plane is also beautiful. So, let me disagree ...
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 14 October 2020 07: 17
          +4
          Quote: Mikhail Tynda
          Someone said, I do not remember, unfortunately, that a well-flying plane is also beautiful.

          Attributed to every aircraft designer. And Antonov, and Tupolev, and Ilyushin ... Yes to everyone.
        2. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 14 October 2020 10: 11
          +1
          Quote: Mikhail Tynda
          Someone said, I do not remember, unfortunately, that a well-flying plane is also beautiful. So, let me disagree ...

          I agree. 40 years ago, at the institute in structural mechanics, a teacher determined the correctness of calculations: a beautiful diagram and a saw diagram.
        3. Nazar
          Nazar 14 October 2020 17: 03
          +3
          Mikhail Tynda - Quote: "... a well-flying plane ..." - the key word is "flying" - They have been flopping for five years now, but there is zero sense. It's a pity now I don't have this photo, I'll have to retell it in words - at the checkpoint of an aircraft plant in our city there is a plate with dates written on it - "start of plant construction" and "release of the first serial aircraft", do not believe it, a year, just a year (!) Between these dates, from scratch, in the taiga to raise the plant and establish production ... sorry, this is not about us recourse
        4. vadivm59
          vadivm59 14 October 2020 17: 03
          +1
          AN Tupolev said “beautiful planes fly well.” Grandfather knew what he was saying.
        5. The comment was deleted.
  2. Asad
    Asad 14 October 2020 05: 21
    23
    The engine needs TVS-2, American expensive and sanctions! 21st century, and we cannot create an engine for the corn plant! Good investor came!
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 14 October 2020 05: 40
      +7
      was quite simple and cheap to manufacture, which allowed it to be built in a large series.
      So start releasing Annushka in new realities!
      1. Grits
        Grits 14 October 2020 06: 06
        +6
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        So start releasing Annushka in new realities

        Indeed, if the An-2 is so good and cheap, then what prevents you from continuing to produce the good old "maize" in batches? Look, for example, a "loaf" in the old exterior with a big-eyed still drives and no one is particularly worried about this.
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 14 October 2020 06: 51
          +4
          Quote: Gritsa

          Indeed, if the An-2 is so good and cheap, then what prevents you from continuing to produce the good old "maize" in batches? Look, for example, a "loaf" in the old exterior with a big-eyed still drives and no one is particularly worried about this.

          Moral obsolescence gets in the way.
          In the "loaf" there are no internal wing braces, there are no inter-wing braces that limit speed, impair streamlining and require POS (but this is not possible). There is no 1000-strong PD with which there is too much fuss at temperatures below + 5 ° C. There are no removable soft tanks, which on an aircraft of this dimension had long had to be replaced with caisson tanks. And much more. All this can be modernized, but it will turn out to be a 200% new aircraft, not a restored An-2. This is exactly what SibNIA showed with its TVS-2DTS. Even if they used duralumin, they would still get a 150% new aircraft, not the An-2.
          1. Uncle lee
            Uncle lee 14 October 2020 10: 51
            +2
            So it turns out:
            "Baikal" in flight. So far, only in the picture.

            And some talk about talk!
          2. Nazar
            Nazar 14 October 2020 17: 14
            10
            China bought a license and rivets AH2 in large quantities, the engine is certainly not USSR, it is also licensed. So our carriers have already started buying them from the Chinese - as it turned out, the Russian Federation is not in a position to repeat the production of the USSR "galoshes" (the USSR, as you know, did not produce anything except galoshes).
            1. Reviews
              Reviews 14 October 2020 17: 33
              +2
              Quote: Nazar
              China bought a license

              It has long been.
              rivets AH2 in large quantities

              How many? For example, over the past 10 years.
              our carriers from the Chinese began to buy them

              What?
              to repeat the release of SSSR "galoshes" (the USSR, as you know, did not produce anything except galoshes) - the Russian Federation is not able to.

              It doesn't make sense. It is to develop both the aircraft and the equipment from scratch, because in the USSR it has not been there since the 1970s, because it went to the NDP along with the documentation for it. And the CD remained in Ukraine. This money is better spent on a real new plane.
              1. Nazar
                Nazar 14 October 2020 17: 43
                0
                Quote: "This money is better spent on a real new plane." - of course it's better to be rich, but healthy wink - who can argue, a new plane is needed, because it is not even in the project and there is no engine for it, but judging by the development time - this is again an option: "emir, donkey or Nasreddin" - time will pass and everything will end with nothing.
                The IL114 is not much more complicated than the maize machine, the Uzbeks were mass-produced, and in the Russian Federation the years have already passed and this aircraft was not there, and is not.
                1. Captain Nemo
                  Captain Nemo 14 October 2020 22: 07
                  +3
                  The Russians were letting out, and as soon as the Russians began to leave en masse, all aircraft construction was blown away. And the Il-114 is much more complicated than the An-2.
                  1. Nazar
                    Nazar 15 October 2020 03: 16
                    -1
                    Captain Nemo - That's right, the quote: "the Russians began to leave en masse - all aircraft construction was blown away" - but in the Russian Federation, did the Russians also leave? The IL114 is a machine of the last century, yes - it is more complicated than the AN-2 and apparently so much more complicated that today's engineers cannot afford its serial production, in other matters, the production of an analogue of the AN-2 was also beyond their strength.
                    1. Captain Nemo
                      Captain Nemo 15 October 2020 03: 36
                      +2
                      Some of the specialists moved to the west, some to other industries. The remaining Russian specialists still hold on to the aeros. The current engineers in the aviation industry are placed in miserable conditions. For international corporations, Russian aerospace is like a bone in the throat, through its lobby in the government of the Russian Federation, the aviation industry is being strangled. Serial production is the work of a large number of people, not just engineers. They are technically capable of launching, the problem is in the organization at the state level.
                      1. Nazar
                        Nazar 15 October 2020 04: 24
                        -2
                        Captain Nemo - Unfortunately, everything that you wrote is correct and plus to this - "subcontractors" or rather their absence, because the "organization at the state level" is such that there is nowhere to take components - the West does not sell and its production is destroyed.
                        In this regard, the stories with Super-Tin100 are indicative - while they were designing, while they were busy with the release of samples, everything was "smooth", as soon as it came to sales to the same Iran - from the USA - "stop" - more than 10% of US parts are exported in the product. and now we need to make essentially a new plane. With MS-21 it is even more fun - again, while they were designing, making the first samples - everything was quiet, they came close to the series - again from the USA - "stop" - the composites were blocked, it seems that their composites are about to appear and therefore again "stop" - already in electronics, and there, in the future, there is also a ban on PW engines. No electronics of its own, no engines (PD - sawing the dough is not an engine), what the hell is the aircraft industry - to cut gliders out of plywood or what?
              2. Nazar
                Nazar 14 October 2020 17: 52
                -2
                No need to ask unnecessary questions - Google will help you, otherwise - look at this: https: //regnum.ru/news/economy/2767663.html
                1. Reviews
                  Reviews 15 October 2020 07: 16
                  +1
                  Quote: Nazar
                  No need to ask unnecessary questions - Google will help you, otherwise - look at this: https: //regnum.ru/news/economy/2767663.html

                  Clear. Just flap. "Buy", "unnamed a / k" ...
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        2. Nazar
          Nazar 15 October 2020 12: 16
          -2
          Avis - 10 boards, buyer:
          Tupolev Joint Stock Company will purchase from the Chinese company AVIC Tongfei North China Aircraft Industry Company, Ltd. licensed copies of the Soviet An-2 aircraft, called Y-5B.
          I will not give a link - you will forget the request - several articles (to choose from) on this topic will pop up at once.
        3. Senka naughty
          Senka naughty 18 October 2020 06: 37
          -1
          Quote: Nazar
          Avis - 10 boards, buyer:
          Tupolev Joint Stock Company will purchase from the Chinese company AVIC Tongfei North China Aircraft Industry Company, Ltd. licensed copies of the Soviet An-2 aircraft, called Y-5B.
          I will not give a link - you will forget the request - several articles (to choose from) on this topic will pop up at once.

          An excellent attempt at okrainsky cormorant. All articles with this tag link to your own article from the bmpd blog with a comment
          We got up from our knees ...
          at the end.
          I’m wondering if you are doing a reconstruction there, what kind of production are you switching to? Can you make cans? Feycomet is incompetent.
        4. Nazar
          Nazar 18 October 2020 20: 17
          0
          senka shaly - you are miserable in your life at least something other than excrement created, and, non-work?
          I, yes, I am not from Ma-askva, from Siberia, and our plant makes helicopters both in the Russian Federation and for export, the reconstruction is constantly going on - we are working.
  • Captain Nemo
    Captain Nemo 14 October 2020 22: 03
    +1
    The share cannot be more than the whole - this is about 200 and 150%.)))
    The main criterion is the cost of a passenger ticket. If the An-2 is laying on the blades of all new "substitutes" then on *** shit have these substitutes surrendered to a resident of a remote Siberian settlement?
    Finally, it was with difficulty that it began to reach the state customers. A massive cheap plane requires an iron curtain and honest, competent officials. Therefore, the real replacement of the An-2 at the end of the tunnel is still not visible.
    1. Reviews
      Reviews 15 October 2020 07: 17
      0
      Quote: Captain Nemo
      The share cannot be more than the whole - this is about 200 and 150%.)))

      This is just a hyperbole.

      The main criterion is the cost of a passenger ticket. If the An-2 is laying on the blades of all new "substitutes" then on *** shit have these substitutes surrendered to a resident of a remote Siberian settlement?
      Finally, it was with difficulty that it began to reach the state customers. A massive cheap plane requires an iron curtain and honest, competent officials. Therefore, the real replacement of the An-2 at the end of the tunnel is still not visible.

      Nonsense. Set of slogans.
  • frog
    frog 14 October 2020 10: 41
    +4
    That's why UAZ was going to bake a new loaf. True, it turned out to be a monster anyway, but that is ...



    Any rearrangement of the UAZ-452's cabin is practically impossible. Due to the archaic design, the steering wheel cannot be endowed with a telescopic mechanism. And the position of the pedal assembly depends on the attachment to the body, the design of which will also not change. So the strange ergonomics that convey greetings to the driver from the end of the Khrushchev thaw era, it seems, will remain with the "Loaf" forever.

    1. Grits
      Grits 14 October 2020 15: 11
      +1
      Quote: frog
      True, it turned out to be a monster anyway, but that is ...

      I just squinted a little
      1. frog
        frog 14 October 2020 16: 58
        -3
        Yes squint krakozyabra, do not squint .... One shish is not a car.
        1. frog
          frog 14 October 2020 19: 17
          -4
          As I understand it, the gnomes were minus?)))
  • loki565
    loki565 14 October 2020 14: 04
    +1
    The biplane loses to the monoplane in almost everything. The new aircraft needs a new engine, they could create a new engine that went to both the aircraft and a large UAV
    1. KERMET
      KERMET 14 October 2020 16: 11
      +6
      Yeah, he loses - that's what Antonov was told back when he proposed the An-2 project, but until now they won't find a replacement for him ... Well, look, look, or rather, according to the modern - saw, saw
      1. loki565
        loki565 14 October 2020 20: 13
        0
        Yeah, he loses - that's what they said to Antonov when he proposed the An-2 project, but they still won't find a replacement for him

        It's like saying there is no replacement for a 3-door cornfield))) There are a lot of replacements for the An2, which surpass it in fuel efficiency, speed, and so on.
        And this project LMS "Baikal" looks like a Cessna 208B Grand Caravan EX
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 15 October 2020 07: 34
          -1
          Quote: loki565
          this project LMS "Baikal" looks like a Cessna 208B Grand Caravan EX

          Like a lizard to a mouse.
        2. KERMET
          KERMET 15 October 2020 09: 37
          0
          By individual parameters - yes, complete, but by the totality, by its versatility and ease of repair and operation?
  • whitebeard
    whitebeard 14 October 2020 19: 24
    +3
    Nobody will buy the An-2 from Novya, because the engine is gluttonous, and the plane itself is too large, too large for today's stunted small airplane in large numbers. So they continue to fly at the old ones and, at the maximum, can be repaired. as suggested by SibNIA according to different schemes.
    New ones should be analogs of 4-seater Cessn on auto-components and light 4-seater verts of the Robinson type - this is a small air at least somehow affordable.
  • Blacksmith 55
    Blacksmith 55 14 October 2020 08: 12
    +2
    Will 800 hp not be enough? If I am not mistaken at AN 2 1000.
    A plane is needed, and your own, so as not to depend on foreigners.
    1. Reviews
      Reviews 14 October 2020 09: 00
      +1
      Quote: smith 55
      Will 800 hp not be enough? If I am not mistaken at AN 2 1000.

      It will be fine. "Otter" carries 10 passengers at 600hp.
      1. zlinn
        zlinn 14 October 2020 11: 46
        +2
        and the grand caravan has 13 passengers with 670 hp, so 800 is more than enough
  • neri73-r
    neri73-r 14 October 2020 17: 09
    +2
    Quote: ASAD
    The engine needs TVS-2, American expensive and sanctions! 21st century, and we cannot create an engine for the corn plant! Good investor came!

    What are you slandering foreign investors, this is the "invisible hand of the market" wassat She cleans from us and gives them, civilized, well, some of ours, who are at the trough.
  • evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru
    evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru 14 October 2020 23: 41
    0
    Here is a “powerful” state that has ruled in Russia for 30 years. The author of the commentary calls it “RK” - “Capitalist Russia”.
    For so many years, the mind was not enough to change the engine and avionics of the An-2! (Well, yes, there is also such a small thing - to organize serial production). You don't need to do anything else with this machine! And no ,, Baikals ,, ,, a hundred years ,, are not needed.
    But first you need to modernize this stupid and worthless state - ,, RK ,, (not to be confused with the old Russia). Not everyone probably knows that the "great aviators" - all these "kats", "Mendel", "Eidmans", "Grefs" wanted to buy licensed clones of An-2 in China. “Lived,” is called. Or - ,, arrived ... ,,
    Why do they need Russian engines? Mendel used to say something like this about his personal Italian helicopter: “This is not an Mi-8 for you!” What to talk about with him. This is called the "comprador bourgeoisie". They blindly milk, their, country of residence. What engines, what planes?
  • K-612-O
    K-612-O 15 October 2020 07: 37
    0
    VK-800 was created, now testing, fine-tuning, certification and only then a series.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 October 2020 05: 22
    +5
    Drew attention to many archaic solutions (wing struts, fixed landing gear, etc.). Interestingly, all this is a struggle for economy or simplicity of design and operation.
    Since if the conversation is about efficiency, then a half-plane suggests itself.
    1. Sergey_G_M
      Sergey_G_M 14 October 2020 06: 06
      +4
      The chassis is not retractable for the cheapness of the norms, but how widely spaced is a gut, although the question immediately arises with the strength of the chassis - a very large console without support is obtained.
      To me, too, a half-plane for such an aircraft seems better.
    2. Reviews
      Reviews 14 October 2020 06: 36
      +1
      Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Drew attention to many archaic solutions (wing struts, fixed landing gear, etc.).

      Yeah, hammers also have a bunch of "archaic solutions": no progress, always a handle and a striker. Ugliness.

      Well, and seriously ...

      ... well, for the educational program.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 October 2020 10: 06
        +3
        Quote: Avis
        Yeah, hammers also have a bunch of "archaic solutions": no progress, always a handle and a striker. Ugliness.


        Well, for a neophyte for an educational program, a hammer diagram laughing

        Always - the handle (handle), the head (head) of the hammer (which includes, depending on the type: firing pin, bump stop, sock, nail puller, etc.) and the wedge you forgot!
        Teach materiel colleague !!!
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 14 October 2020 10: 31
          -4
          Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Quote: Avis
          Yeah, hammers also have a bunch of "archaic solutions": no progress, always a handle and a striker. Ugliness.


          Well, for a neophyte for an educational program, a hammer diagram laughing

          Always - the handle (handle), the head (head) of the hammer (which includes, depending on the type: firing pin, bump stop, sock, nail puller, etc.) and the wedge you forgot!
          Teach materiel colleague !!!

          Learn Russian, ignoramus. "Metaphor", for example. "Analogy", "simple example". And before that, it's too early for you to talk about aviation in general and about struts in particular.
          You didn't understand a simple example. So, I'm not here to teach materiel.
        2. AlexVas44
          AlexVas44 14 October 2020 13: 35
          +2
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          Teach materiel colleague !!!

          And where is the hole into which the handle is inserted and wedged with an invisible wedge. laughing
        3. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 14: 42
          +4
          The wedge can be omitted. If you put the hammer back on ... And drive through the press.
          1. Reviews
            Reviews 14 October 2020 15: 30
            +3
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            The wedge can be omitted. If you put the hammer back on ... And drive through the press.

            You can not drive in. There are all-metal hammers. Such, damn it, archaic. There would be no manipulator instead of a handle, and a construction pistol instead of a striker, yeah. Everywhere there are Matvienki with their laser-plasma icicles ...
          2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 October 2020 21: 03
            +1
            Vladimir, the method you proposed is used for sledgehammers, picks and occasionally mallets. Sometimes it is poured with mastic. In all-metal, welding or soldering is used. I haven't met it with pressure, but why not!
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 15 October 2020 04: 50
              0
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              I have not met with pressure, but why not!

              We constantly pressed it in at the plant. It worked almost forever.
    3. Captain Nemo
      Captain Nemo 14 October 2020 22: 25
      +1
      Struggle for weight efficiency and ultimately airfare.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 October 2020 22: 39
        +1
        The biplane and one-and-a-half glider have a lower take-off run and run after landing, which means they can use less prepared airfields.
        1. Captain Nemo
          Captain Nemo 14 October 2020 23: 09
          +1
          Check out Piper's plane. Vysokoplan and unprepared sites - bushes and the ground less cling))). The wingspan of the monoplane is 13m - equivalent in lift to a biplane with a span of 10m. The advantage of the biplane is the lightness of the wings (the wing is like a truss).
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 October 2020 04: 38
            0
            But this lightness (wing), as I understand it, can be achieved using archaic struts.
            No matter how the era of new materials. Right there, as far as I understand, metal spars sheathed with aluminum. And again, we are moving away from carbon fiber due to the price, lack of technology and low maintainability. Although initially aimed at him.
            In my opinion, it is still necessary to develop a "carbon" theme in aviation. Only serial and mass production will reduce the cost of such technologies.
            By the way, thank you, you and your colleague Sergei answered my question.
            Regards, Vlad!
            1. Reviews
              Reviews 15 October 2020 07: 27
              0
              Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
              metal spars lined with aluminum.

              This is tryndets ...
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 14 October 2020 05: 45
    +2
    By abandoning the second wing, it was possible to reduce the mass of the structure to the required level without loss in flight performance.
    fool fool
    The issues of improving safety are being worked out. Thus, the aircraft can receive two standby electric motors with a capacity of 100 kW. If the main power plant fails, they will allow flight and landing. The possibility of installing a parachute system capable of providing a safe landing for the entire aircraft is also being considered.
    Lightened with a wing and heaped up with additional engines. fool fool The plane is only a biplane. This is what gives security. How many crash landings in the fields?
    1. ycuce234-san
      ycuce234-san 14 October 2020 22: 36
      0
      Better - to make an innovative ring: lay as much of the potential for modernization and bold technical solutions at once as they will shove in and hold on to it as soon as possible, not allowing it to be cut. Otherwise, an "immortal aircraft khanka" will appear again without any development prospects.
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 14 October 2020 05: 47
    12
    Attempts to modernize the corn plant began almost from the moment of its appearance.
    I remember in the eighties the AN-3 with a turboprop engine even flew.
    But things are there.

    With the full engine ..., in Russia they are absent as a class.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 14 October 2020 06: 03
      +3
      over the past 25 years, this topic has been raised more than once, and there were even confidence that the release in the Urals was about to begin ... but ... the air is still there, however, expected. so there is skepticism about this project.
    2. Grits
      Grits 14 October 2020 06: 09
      +3
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      With the full engine ..., in Russia they are absent as a class.

      Yes, with engines in Russia did not work. The Russian land became scarce with engine designers. For planes, for ships, for cars or submarines ... And the light at the end of the tunnel, it seems, is not visible. The main thing is that our "powers that be" do not want to see this problem
      1. 2112vda
        2112vda 14 October 2020 07: 33
        16
        Quote: Gritsa
        Yes, with engines in Russia did not work. The Russian land became scarce with engine designers.

        Wait a little more, there will come a complete "stabilization". There must be motor factories for designers to be minders. Ask how many design bureaus and motor plants have been closed in Russia. World practice shows that it takes 25 years to create your own design school. Plants and design bureaus are closed in a month. Recently, a scientific division at one plant was liquidated, which worked, moreover, very successfully for 55 years. Young “effective managers” came along with “competent competences” and liquidated the unit that was hindering them. While the liberda will rule the country, nothing good should be expected. Well, whole generations have been lost in motor design bureaus, thanks to the "bad guy" and the "fight forever drunk", respectively, and their accomplices.
      2. KCA
        KCA 14 October 2020 08: 21
        -1
        An aircraft version is made of the Aurus engine
        1. Asad
          Asad 14 October 2020 08: 42
          +5
          A ,, aurus ,, straight Russian development! The FSE will also impose sanctions!
          1. KCA
            KCA 14 October 2020 09: 38
            -2
            And the Aurus is a Russian development, study the issue, the developer is NAMI with the participation of invited Porsche specialists, and that, in my opinion, only when developing the engine of a presidential limousine, and in total there are 6 or 7 engines in the Aurus line

            According to chief designer Vadim Pereverzev, the engine was designed in cooperation with Porsche Engineering, but according to our (FSUE "NAMI") technical assignment. All parameters of the future motor were set by Russian engineers based on the needs of the project. This also applies to traction and dynamic indicators, and overall dimensions, so that it fits perfectly into the layout of the car. The design of the engine was carried out side by side by Russian and German engineers. The engines are assembled at FSUE “NAMI”. There is no unification with Porsche engines. The engine is original.
            1. Captain Pushkin
              Captain Pushkin 14 October 2020 18: 25
              0
              Quote: KCA
              The engines are assembled at FSUE “NAMI”.

              Where are they made? Casting, machining ...
              1. KCA
                KCA 14 October 2020 20: 00
                -1
                At least now, when there is no serial production, NAMI collects, then
                “Motor production and production of an automatic transmission and a number of other components (for the Aurus car) will be set up in cooperation with KAMAZ. Some will be in Alabuga, some - at the main production site in Naberezhnye Chelny. We are counting, among other things, on the active use of those enterprises that have suffered from the pandemic in terms of downtime, ”the TASS minister was quoted as saying.
                1. Captain Pushkin
                  Captain Pushkin 14 October 2020 22: 05
                  +2
                  Quote: KCA
                  now, when there is no serial production, collects by NAMI

                  Whose knots does it collect? There is no production ...
                  It turns out purchased. Whose?
                  1. KCA
                    KCA 15 October 2020 07: 22
                    -1
                    Well I wrote - NAMI, this is not a small private scam with 2 boys at the computers, there are only 500 leading designers, they have their own production, they will not stretch the series, but they will do anything piece by piece
                    1. Captain Pushkin
                      Captain Pushkin 15 October 2020 11: 06
                      0
                      Quote: KCA
                      NAMI, this is not a small private gang with 2 boys

                      Not much different. Happened to visit.
                      Full cycle of pilot production in NAMI? It's not even funny ...
    3. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 14 October 2020 06: 26
      +3
      And whatever one may say, the engine in the plane is the most important thing.
      After all, as the same Antonov said, but maybe Tupolev, or Ilyushin, I don't remember exactly - "on a good engine, the picket fence will fly"
      1. Angelo Provolone
        Angelo Provolone 14 October 2020 12: 07
        0
        "on a good engine and the picket fence will fly"

        It was Glushko who told Korolev when he sent him with the N-1 project
    4. Reviews
      Reviews 14 October 2020 06: 56
      +1
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      Attempts to modernize the corn plant began almost from the moment of its appearance.
      I remember in the eighties the AN-3 with a turboprop engine even flew.

      An-3 is still flying. Only a dozen boards, but it flies.
  • lelik613
    lelik613 14 October 2020 06: 00
    +1
    It looks like an obvious freak. Is it worthwhile to fence a caricature of an old man if there is practically nothing left of the An-2?
  • Reviews
    Reviews 14 October 2020 06: 44
    +1
    There is no complete similarity, but ...

    1. Hog
      Hog 14 October 2020 08: 34
      +1
      There is no complete similarity, but ...

      And I thought that he reminds me)
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 14 October 2020 08: 39
      +4
      and the AN-2 with all the archaism and the old uneconomical engine-25 tr. and why then such an improvement? It is easier to insert an economical engine into the AN-2 and for 15 tr. an hour to fly here and it will be, really affordable aviation .. 30tr is hardly a mass ..
  • parusnik
    parusnik 14 October 2020 06: 52
    +3
    and already in 2022-23. promising "Baikal" can go into series.
    ... The key phrase "can go" ... When it will be possible to read about some kind of development, project that it will go into series, will be built, launched, etc. in a particular year.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 06: 56
      +7
      Quote: parusnik
      "can go" ...

      Where will he go if we have fewer airports all over Russia than in Alaska alone?
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 14 October 2020 08: 34
        +6
        Hmm .. here you are right .. under a bloody, totalitarian regime, in the county town there was an airport of domestic airlines .. they flew to my grandmother ..... Now the name of the stop .. It was outside the city .. The city did not reach the stop yet. ...
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 14 October 2020 07: 56
    10
    Thus, the aircraft can receive two standby electric motors with a capacity of 100 kW. If the main power plant fails, they will allow flight and landing. The possibility of installing a parachute system capable of providing a safe landing for the entire aircraft is also being considered.

    Yeah. And spare fenders, so that after one breaks down, the spare fenders are extended. Very much like marasmus, especially with a parachute for the entire plane. Probably to screw up the brains of the investor, to give money for the project.
    1. Reviews
      Reviews 14 October 2020 08: 27
      +2
      Quote: Aviator_
      Thus, the aircraft can receive two standby electric motors with a capacity of 100 kW. If the main power plant fails, they will allow flight and landing. The possibility of installing a parachute system capable of providing a safe landing for the entire aircraft is also being considered.

      Yeah. And spare fenders, so that after one breaks down, the spare fenders are extended. Very much like marasmus, especially with a parachute for the entire plane. Probably to screw up the brains of the investor, to give money for the project.

      Maybe for powdering. UZGA, in general, is a sane office. It is not for nothing that it says "may". Perhaps this is a mistake and it was not about backup electric motors, but about the now fashionable topic of a hybrid aircraft. 800 h.p. this is approximately the nominal power of the old man ASh-62IR, and 2x136 hp. will raise the takeoff power of the VMG to almost 1200hp, which will help in any extreme conditions (highlands, heat, takeoff downwind ...). The parachute can also be a curtsey to the moneybag who has seen enough of the Cirrus SR-22. But for a 1,5-ton aircraft this is still unrealistic, in the series (if it comes) this will not happen.
      1. Alf
        Alf 14 October 2020 18: 22
        +3
        Quote: Avis
        800 h.p. this is approximately the nominal power of the old man ASh-62IR, and 2x136 hp. will raise the takeoff power of the VMG to almost 1200hp, which will help in any extreme conditions (highlands, heat, takeoff downwind ...).

        That is, the additional two dviguns will hang as a dead weight? "Original" solution, there is nothing to say .. Perhaps one is easier, but for a thousand mares? No such thing? So what's the difference, what to develop, in 1000 horses or in 800 ... For some reason, automakers do not put a spare engine on the car, everyone strives to get by with one, the required power.
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 14 October 2020 08: 34
      -3
      Well, a low-power backup unit is quite popular in new designs. With the engine wedge, there is no way to select a landing site. You will have to fall on a forest / water / city / mountain or hill, etc.

      The electric propulsion system can fit in 100 kg - this is not very important. Well, the battery for at least 10 minutes more work - by the way, you can put it into the salon. That is, not really ballast, but all sorts of multimedia systems, efficient charging for gadgets, etc.
      1. Alf
        Alf 14 October 2020 18: 24
        +3
        Quote: donavi49
        and all sorts of multimedia systems, efficient chargers for gadgets

        The most necessary thing for pollination of fields ... At one time on the LUAZ-969, designers managed to put ashtrays, and then collective farmers and hunters were surprised at such a "necessary" thing ..
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 14 October 2020 18: 31
          -1
          It is not for pollination of fields, but multifunctional. And transporting people is one of the main loads of the An-2. Well, and then, either we still treat passengers as weak-willed cattle, or we still begin to create comfort.

          1. Alf
            Alf 14 October 2020 18: 35
            +2
            Quote: donavi49
            we begin to create comfort.

            Comfort is not the same. Let's stick in leather seats and what do we get? A workhorse or just another business jet for specific guys?
          2. Borey 53
            Borey 53 14 October 2020 22: 59
            +2
            I flew on the AN-2 from the village of Agoy (Tuapse) to Krasnodar in 1975. So this plane, in comparison with which I flew, was simply luxurious. The main advantage of aviation over other modes of transport is that it does not need to build expensive roads, especially in hard-to-reach regions.
            1. Nyrobsky
              Nyrobsky 15 October 2020 19: 58
              +1
              Quote: Borey 53
              I flew on the AN-2 from the village of Agoy (Tuapse) to Krasnodar in 1975. So this plane, in comparison with which I flew, was simply luxurious. The main advantage of aviation over other modes of transport is that it does not need to build expensive roads, especially in hard-to-reach regions.

              Previously, in the Urals, they flew to taiga villages on a schedule like trams, two passenger flights a day (morning-evening) plus one postal and luggage one. I remember in winter they hung skis on the chassis and he looked like a drake with outstretched paws that goes to land on a pond. Good memories of this car. The last time I flew it in 1981, then the small aircraft was not breathing badly yet. Now those settlements are no longer there, not like m / aviation. The reformers ruined everything.
    3. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 08: 59
      +4
      Quote: Aviator_
      especially with a parachute for the entire aircraft.

      "Comrades passengers! We will now take off our wings and land by parachute!" Honorary paratrooper "badge, please contact the aircraft commander!"
      1. Alf
        Alf 14 October 2020 18: 25
        +2
        Quote: mordvin xnumx
        Quote: Aviator_
        especially with a parachute for the entire aircraft.

        "Comrades passengers! We will now take off our wings and land by parachute!" Honorary paratrooper "badge, please contact the aircraft commander!"

        In the meantime, chew Meller ..
    4. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 14 October 2020 11: 46
      +1
      Quote: Aviator_
      Very much like marasmus, especially with a parachute for the entire plane.
      The parachute for the entire aircraft is used, but on small aircraft (4-6 seater). On larger ones, I don't know.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 14 October 2020 08: 01
    +4
    and already in 2022-23. promising "Baikal" can go into series. It is expected that such an aircraft will find its place in regional traffic
    They have been talking about these projects for almost 10 years, billions are spent on projects, but "things are still there." It is necessary to do business, not to fence in a talking shop. But while such as Serdyukov are at the helm, everything will remain only in the projects.
    1. Lontus
      Lontus 14 October 2020 14: 09
      +5
      Quote: tihonmarine
      But while such as Serdyukov are at the helm, everything will remain only in the projects.

      you probably wanted to say "like Putin", but were careful.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 14 October 2020 14: 30
        -1
        Quote: Lontus
        you probably wanted to say "like Putin"

        No, he does not build airplanes, he has no time for this now, here are Belarus, Karabakh and Kyrgyzstan, and the Georgians sang their long songs.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 14 October 2020 08: 12
    +1
    Everything rests on the 1000hp engine. Its price is still limited today. The same trouble with the L-410. Honewell & GE .... respectively. On TVS-2 there is also an American avionics. In the near future (?) - the development of VK-650 helicopter and aircraft ... this, in my opinion, suggests that the first to master and localize the L-410.
  • nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn 14 October 2020 09: 06
    +5
    It was originally designed for an imported engine and therefore was not approved. It feels like history teaches nothing.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 14 October 2020 09: 49
      -1
      So there is no own engine.

      Honeywell TPE331-12UAN - which was used on TVS2, it gave 1100 horses out of the box + incredible operating time, reputation and service.
      The engine for the LMS is its VK-800S with a maximum of 800 horsepower (and this is a stand-alone engine, in fact, the engine is still not in series). And immediately the ideas of a hybrid with an additional circuit went (that is, if the main VK800S turns off, then the electrical component can rotate the screw) - to get another 250-300 forces.
      1. nov_tech.vrn
        nov_tech.vrn 14 October 2020 10: 36
        +4
        We don't have a good engine and the supply of spare parts can be stopped at any time, read about the refusal to supply spare parts for equipment in Nizhny. You need to think in advance, and not move your hindsight ..
  • Angelo Provolone
    Angelo Provolone 14 October 2020 12: 04
    +7
    Even the declared characteristics of "Baikal" are depressing.
    why carry spare engines with you. if you can put 2 normal? Why fence in a sloped floor that will reduce aerodynamics? Can it be easier to make a 3 - support chassis?

    All this drank dough.

    De Haviland DHC-, 6. Starting point. If you create an airplane, then no worse. You don't know how. copy
    1. Reviews
      Reviews 14 October 2020 12: 31
      +3
      Quote: Angelo Provolone

      De Haviland DHC-, 6. Starting point. If you create an airplane, then no worse. You don't know how. copy

      No copying required. There are An-28 and An-38 (in Omsk, on the 38th, even the entire CD was once), which lend themselves to modernization. Due to the hatch, the An-28 is even potentially better than the Twin Otter.
      1. Lontus
        Lontus 14 October 2020 14: 26
        +4
        Quote: Avis
        Quote: Angelo Provolone

        De Haviland DHC-, 6. Starting point. If you create an airplane, then no worse. You don't know how. copy

        No copying required. There are An-28 and An-38 (in Omsk, on the 38th, even the entire CD was once), which lend themselves to modernization. Due to the hatch, the An-28 is even potentially better than the Twin Otter.

        I agree.
        But to replace the An-2, it would be better to make, based on the An-14M, at a modern technical level for 9-12 passengers - there are even fairly cheap and reliable piston engines.
        Well, the niche An-28 (38) for 17-22 passengers, too, should not be given to foreign aircraft, but filled by ourselves.
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 14 October 2020 14: 29
          0
          Quote: Lontus

          But to replace the An-2, it is still better based on the An-14M

          An-28 is the An-14M. :)
          1. Lontus
            Lontus 14 October 2020 14: 32
            +1
            No.
            These are different planes - read it.
            The An-28 has completely different engines (terboprop instead of piston) and a different elongated fuselage. The aerodynamic design is, yes, the same.
            1. Lontus
              Lontus 14 October 2020 14: 34
              +2
              Quote: Lontus
              No.
              These are different planes - read it.
              The An-28 has completely different engines (terboprop instead of piston) and a different elongated fuselage. The aerodynamic design is, yes, the same.

              An-28 is a light twin-engine turboprop aircraft. Developed in the USSR by the Antonov Design Bureau as a development of the An-14 aircraft concept.
              Not the development of the structure, but the development of the concept.
            2. Reviews
              Reviews 14 October 2020 15: 09
              +1
              Quote: Lontus
              No.
              These are different planes - read it.

              No, you read it. An-28 went to the design bureau for many years as An-14M ("ed. 28").

              The An-28 has completely different engines (terboprop instead of piston) and a different elongated fuselage.

              And in general, read about aviation. Be surprised how many examples of the transition from PD to GTE within one type are. :) Homework for you.
    2. Doctor
      Doctor 14 October 2020 12: 44
      0
      De Haviland DHC-, 6. Starting point. If you create an airplane, then no worse. You don't know how. copy

      It is twin-engine. Consumption will increase, however.
      Then it's better like the Cessna SkyCourier, it has 20 seats.



      And here the Cesna Caravan is closer.



      Although, for good reason, it is necessary to start with a 4-seater, like the Cessna Skylane, for him, too, work is immeasurable, and as an entry-level training.

    3. Lontus
      Lontus 14 October 2020 14: 15
      +2
      Quote: Angelo Provolone
      Even the declared characteristics of "Baikal" are depressing.
      why carry spare engines with you. if you can put 2 normal? Why fence in a sloped floor that will reduce aerodynamics? Can it be easier to make a 3 - support chassis?

      All this drank dough.

      De Haviland DHC-, 6. Starting point. If you create an airplane, then no worse. You don't know how. copy


      De Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter
      Start of operation 1966
      * Crew: minimum 1, usually 2 people
      * Capacity: 19 or 20 passengers
      * Length: 15,77 m
      * Wingspan: 19,8 m
      * Height: 5,9 m
      * Wing area: 39 m²
      * Empty weight: from 3 363 kg to 3 628 (3121) kg
      * Maximum takeoff weight: 5 670 kg
      * Engine: turboprop, 2 × Pratt & Whitney PT6A-27 (PT6A-34), power 620-680 (750) hp. from. each
      * Maximum speed: 314 km / h
      * Cruising speed: 278 km / h
      * Flight range (unloaded): 1434 (1480) km
      * Practical ceiling: 7 m
      * Rate of climb: 8,1 m / s
      * The length of the run: 366 m
  • Doctor
    Doctor 14 October 2020 12: 33
    +1
    The passenger cabin must accommodate 14 people. or 1500 kg of cargo and maximally repeat the configuration of the An-2 cockpit.

    Why, I wonder. In logistics, crowds of parasites with computers are sitting, they cannot count what goods are being carried now.

    And the layout of the chassis is outdated, if you put a modern tricycle with a front pillar, you can make a cargo ramp in the back, no need to fiddle with loading through the side hatch.
    1. Reviews
      Reviews 14 October 2020 14: 45
      0
      Quote: Arzt
      no need to fiddle with loading through the side hatch.

      In 99% of cases, a ramp is unnecessary for a civilian truck, and it degrades its mass-dimensional characteristics and aerodynamics.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 14 October 2020 14: 58
        +4
        In 99% of cases, a ramp is unnecessary for a civilian truck, and it degrades its mass-dimensional characteristics and aerodynamics.

        Yes, they constantly carry loads. In ANs, boards are sharpened through a side door.
        This plane will be cargo-passenger, too fat to do 2 types.
        You can not have a ramp, but a double-leaf large hatch, you will hesitate to drag the same patients on a stretcher through the side.

        I don’t understand this, honestly. Whole institutes with a bunch of smart people - MAI, Bauman, Samara, in Siberia.

        Can't, damn it, design a line of civilian high-wing aircraft with different carrying capacity.

        Well this is not stealth !!! am
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 14 October 2020 15: 02
          -2
          Quote: Arzt
          In 99% of cases, a ramp is unnecessary for a civilian truck, and it degrades its mass-dimensional characteristics and aerodynamics.

          Yes, they constantly carry loads.

          What a discovery! Trucks carry loads! :))) Urgently for the Nobel Prize!
    2. Alf
      Alf 14 October 2020 18: 30
      +2
      Quote: Arzt
      In logistics, crowds of parasites with computers are sitting, they cannot count what goods are being carried now.

      What to take from the victims of the exam?
  • prior
    prior 14 October 2020 12: 36
    +7
    Well, just pride is in the Russian aviation industry, which for thirty years has not been able to master the production of the corn, which is so necessary for the country.
    And someone says about "galoshes" .....
    1. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 14 October 2020 13: 57
      -11 qualifying.
      Quote: prior
      Well, just pride is in the Russian aviation industry, which for thirty years has not been able to master the production of the corn, which is so necessary for the country.
      And someone says about "galoshes" .....

      Is it really necessary?
      I doubt that the inhabitants of the deep zamkadye will create an effective demand for air travel. They move somewhere from the dump to the store for booze and back.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 14 October 2020 15: 07
        +3
        Is it really necessary?
        I doubt that the inhabitants of the deep zamkadye will create an effective demand for air travel. They move somewhere from the dump to the store for booze and back.


        With our open spaces, only small aircraft!
        There is a great US movie "Into Alaska". There really are 10 episodes, but you can't come off!
        And everything pays off, because there is a whole line of planes, no fucking drive a 20-seat plane for 3 boxes of vodka!

        1. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 14 October 2020 21: 26
          -3
          Quote: Arzt
          With our open spaces, only small aircraft!

          What does the space have to do with it?
          Who and where will fly in these open spaces? And most importantly, for what? If in a normal way, without state. subsidies, who will be willing to pay the market price for tickets? In that movie about Alaska, in the first minutes, a dude is going to hunt and pays 600 evergreens for an hour of flight. Do we have people in the outback who earn so much? The people as a whole do not want to do anything, just thump.
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 14 October 2020 21: 34
            0

            What does the space have to do with it?
            Who and where will fly in these open spaces? And most importantly, for what? If in a normal way, without state. subsidies, who will be willing to pay the market price for tickets? In that movie about Alaska, in the first minutes, a dude is going to hunt and pays 600 evergreens for an hour of flight. Do we have people in the outback who earn so much? The people as a whole do not want to do anything, just thump.


            Here are the layouts, for example. True Peekaboo. laughing

            https://pikabu.ru/story/kupit_samolet_i_letat_na_morya__realnost_5270544
        2. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 14 October 2020 21: 29
          -2
          Quote: Arzt
          There is a great US movie "Flights deep into Alaska"

          I was surprised that they do not use helicopters where they belong, and instead risk crashing the plane when landing on various unsuitable sites.
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 14 October 2020 21: 38
            +1
            I was surprised that they do not use helicopters where they belong, and instead risk crashing the plane when landing on various unsuitable sites.

            In the following episodes they meet. They take out the lost.
            But all the same, they first look for the Sesny. Probably more fuel consumption on helicopters, I don't know.
    2. kvakin
      kvakin 14 October 2020 15: 27
      +1
      Anything can. In the early 2000s, in Omsk, there was a series of about 20 An-3Ts, but we like it - they like everything cheaper, and it was cheaper to take the An-2 junk to shaman it, sort out the engine and fly for another 20 years on it. So everything died out.
      Until the last An-2 physically decays, the new plane will not "take off". I do not know the current prices, but I think 120 million is not enough, this figure will definitely increase. For 120 they agree to buy now, but I think it is not profitable for production to sell for such a price, which means that a maximum of 10 cars will be released and the project will be closed. And someone announced the early prices below, that's how it was. In the near future nothing will happen, maybe in 10-15 years.
      1. Alf
        Alf 14 October 2020 18: 33
        +3
        Quote: kvakin
        Until the last An-2 physically decays, the new plane will not "take off".

        And then he won't take off, in vain that they started talking about the purchase of the AN-2 in the PRC? Now Vadik237 will drop by and explain to everyone that it is not profitable to do anything in Russia.
  • Lebed
    Lebed 14 October 2020 13: 19
    14
    The cost of the car was limited to 120 million rubles

    Machine or whole program?
  • yehat2
    yehat2 14 October 2020 13: 57
    +4
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    Everything depends on finances, as I understand it ...

    oh yes, how it rests!
    According to the price tag, Baikal is already approaching a completely different class of cars.
    if an-2 in a really good condition now costs 5-7 million, then Baikal cannot be bought for less than 17 million (these are old price levels, I don't know now)
    In addition, it says here that the cost of a flight hour is 30k. (I think in the end more).
    if he carries 10 people (which is cool - the average load is usually less), then a ticket costs 3k.
    For local lines that compete with buses, this is an inadequate price tag.
    The population of the periphery cannot pay massively such prices.
    Now at such prices they fly only in the tundra or other hard-to-reach areas, where it is impossible to reach by land at all.
    Only two points can radically change the situation - the actual localization of the production of all valuable components in the Russian Federation and a radical reduction in excise taxes on fuel.
    In addition, I will note that for some reason almost all large aircraft have benefits at airports, but for small aircraft the paradoxical situation is that sometimes it is more expensive to park an An-2 in Pulkovo than a Boeing 737.
    1. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 14 October 2020 21: 32
      -6
      Quote: yehat2
      The population of the periphery cannot pay massively such prices

      Rather, he does not want to work normally and earn money.
      1. yehat2
        yehat2 15 October 2020 00: 05
        +2
        what will you earn if no one has money stupidly anywhere around?
        the tax system is such that money goes to the center and is not returned.
        Because of this, many regions cannot even cover basic needs, they take loans and are now head over heels in debt (there are a lot of them around MSCs)
        It becomes even worse because of the division of income - the rich part, about 5% of the population owns more than 80% of the finances in the country. And the rest is not even the minuscule that is dictated by taxes, but 15-20% of it.
        Well, how will you make money in such conditions? Will you go to 3 jobs and earn heroically 3x15 = 45 tr., And in 5 years hello coffin from overvoltage?
        This summer I was in the Caucasus in the countryside, in the Leningrad region - it is not very easy to make money everywhere.
        In the south, if you have your own land, you can at least plant a garden or make a greenhouse and make ends meet, but in the north even this is a big problem. And people value work there differently.
        In MSC for 500 rubles, not everyone can be persuaded to run to the store for cigarettes, but on the periphery you will be brought to the store for this money. That's how they "don't want to work." Take your bowler hat out of the bakery space.
        1. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 15 October 2020 08: 44
          -4
          Quote: yehat2
          what will you earn if no one has money stupidly anywhere around?

          This is not a question of having money around, but of narrow thinking.
          If there is no money where you live, earn it elsewhere.
          Anyone who hasn't drunk their brains can, for example, learn to code, and do it in their free time, earning more in an hour than in a day in a dirty factory.
          And then, when he goes to spend his earnings in his hometown (preferably not on vodka), then there will be an effective demand for goods, and most importantly, for services, the city will become attractive for small and medium-sized businesses, jobs will appear, there will be a need (and most importantly - funds) to upgrade the infrastructure.
          Or take cryptocurrency. From 2009 to 2018, Bitcoin grew from almost zero to nearly $ 20000. At the same time, the initial investments to start earning were more than modest - one friend of mine just mined the first hundred bitcoins on a dead home computer. But people did not notice this opportunity - all these 9 years they continued to go to meaningless work for the sake of a meager "pay".
  • Operator
    Operator 14 October 2020 14: 03
    0
    A monoplane analogue of the AN-2 with a take-off and landing distance of ~ 100 meters can only be a high-wing aircraft with slotted wings and two propeller-driven installations that intensively blow the wings, which is not available in the LMS "Baikal".

    Therefore, it will not take off.
    1. Reviews
      Reviews 14 October 2020 14: 53
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      Monoplane analogue of AN-2 with a takeoff and landing distance of ~ 100 meters

      The An-2 even has a mileage of> 200 m (two hundred meters). The takeoff run is also more than 100m - 170 or more. And the distances, and even more so, are greater than the takeoff / run.

      slotted wings and two propeller-driven installations

      The PC-6 with 1 pilot and 10 passengers has about the same VPH.
      By the way, the An-2 has its only engine, nevertheless, "intensively blows the wings", improving the VPH. This is true, by the way.
      1. Operator
        Operator 14 October 2020 16: 36
        -1
        The propeller engines on the wings blow the latter even better, but I agree to a compromise: we copy one into one RS-6 Pilatus, replace its wings with slotted ones and get a Russian LMS with a takeoff / run of ~ 100 meters.
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 14 October 2020 16: 45
          0
          Quote: Operator
          The propeller-driven installations on the wings blow the latter even better.

          And the water is wet. What did you want to say? An-2, for which you are so worried, manages with one screw.
          but I agree to a compromise

          And I don't need your favors.
          copy one to one RS-6 "Pilatus"

          It is not necessary, it is younger than An-2, but, nevertheless, an aircraft of the 1960s, we must go forward.
          we replace his wings with slotted ones

          These "slit wings" were given to you ... In general, what do you mean by this? Single / Multi-slot flaps?
          1. Operator
            Operator 14 October 2020 16: 46
            -2
            Talk to yourself for now.
            1. Reviews
              Reviews 15 October 2020 16: 06
              -2
              Quote: Operator
              Talk to yourself for now.

              The drain is accepted. You are not aware of the basic flight characteristics of the An-2. So, malcheg, sit and do not blather until the grown-up uncles allow it.
        2. Alf
          Alf 14 October 2020 18: 37
          +3
          Quote: Operator
          copy one to one RS-6 "Pilatus",

          Try it. Just prepare the horde of lawyers first. The Swiss will shoe you like that ...
          1. frog
            frog 14 October 2020 19: 18
            0
            "Go to the tree stump, mice. I'm in the strategy." wink
  • Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 14 October 2020 14: 08
    +3
    Quote: 2112vda
    Young “effective managers” came along with “competent competences” and liquidated the unit that was hindering them.

    И this has been happening for a long time and everywhere! This is a visible result of the work of the "invisible hand of the market" so adored by our liberals! One conclusion suggests itself long ago - until these "defective managers" turned Russia into a hopelessly backward country, you need to flush all this market guano down the toilet!
  • senima56
    senima56 14 October 2020 14: 28
    +1
    Replacing the AN-2 aircraft, as well as replacing the PM pistol, is an endless topic !!!! fool
  • The comment was deleted.
  • dgonni
    dgonni 14 October 2020 14: 51
    +4
    This aircraft will not be able to replace the AN-2 a priori! low thrust-to-weight ratio and the monoplane scheme will not allow using it from limited sites. Takeoff and landing using parachuting and ground screen will also be impossible. The turboprop engine is of course progressive and lighter than the piston engine, but it is more inertial and requires more time to set speed.
    The piston engine is generally a pilot's dream, gave the throttle and the engine gives almost instant response. Although in terms of maintenance for a technician, a turbine is better.
  • iouris
    iouris 14 October 2020 15: 24
    +1
    There will be no composites in it, as in MS-21? Otherwise, composites were subject to sanctions. Are the engines "domestic"? Navigation equipment? Are transistors and diodes used? By the way, which companies from which countries are the owners of "our" titanium?
    1. Reviews
      Reviews 14 October 2020 16: 47
      +1
      There will be no composites in it, as in the MS-21?

      Article:
      The airframe is made of aluminum alloys, which reduces the cost and labor intensity of its manufacture, and also provides an advantageous combination of operational and technical characteristics. Composite units were abandoned due to the high complexity of manufacturing and repair.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • KERMET
    KERMET 14 October 2020 16: 42
    0

    I would advise the designers to think about how and why the An-2 was designed exactly like that, and then create a replacement for it
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 14 October 2020 20: 20
      0
      I would advise the designers to think about how and why the An-2 was designed exactly like that, and then create a replacement for it

      Yeah. "Simple plane". Especially starting the engine. laughing

      And here is the American version.

      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 15 October 2020 10: 17
          0
          I hope this is humor like that? The American version of what? - taxi for 4 people?

          Yes, the Caravan is the same. He sat down and flew.
          1. KERMET
            KERMET 15 October 2020 13: 34
            0
            Not at all like that - look at the LTH An-2, each has its own niche and each is designed for its own service
  • Alexfly
    Alexfly 14 October 2020 17: 48
    +2
    Again 25 .... The story goes on a spiral ... As long as I live, so many poor Annushka are trying to defeat .... True, there are no motors, then carbon fiber, then money (for a rollback, probably), but things are still there. Now they are pumping a gruel in the form of ala Cessna -Caravan with the features of a Beaver and waiting for another cut again ... And the AN-2, as it flew, will continue to plow while the oceans of the forests of Russia ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • gvozdan
    gvozdan 14 October 2020 20: 20
    0
    They buried the TVS!
  • Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 14 October 2020 20: 23
    0
    This is not needed in Russia. Aviation, in general, any, in Russia is extremely regulated and not available to ordinary people. As a result, small aircraft are too expensive per passenger.
    1. Lontus
      Lontus 15 October 2020 12: 10
      +2
      Quote: Sancho_SP
      This is not needed in Russia. Aviation, in general, any, in Russia is extremely regulated and not available to ordinary people. As a result, small aircraft are too expensive per passenger.

      Aviation is not needed in the comprador Russophobic Russian Federation (since it increases the mobility of the population)
      And in Russia it is needed and will be.
  • yehat2
    yehat2 15 October 2020 00: 08
    0
    Quote: Operator
    slit wing

    Explain, sho tse take?
  • yehat2
    yehat2 15 October 2020 09: 08
    0
    Quote: Narak-zempo
    If there is no money where you live, earn it elsewhere.

    oh, this is my favorite pseudo-market dogma)))
    another place is mobility.
    mobility is ensured by the round sum on the accounts, rapid professional and social development under the age of 25 and professional knowledge.
    Most people don't have ANY of the above for the previous reason.
    those. changing places is very difficult for them.
    I more or less got to my feet only 8 years later, when I moved to St. Petersburg. He worked from dawn to dusk, and with a monetary profession.
  • Kazbek5000
    Kazbek5000 15 October 2020 11: 29
    +1
    Another opus about "what to do from the An-2". I wonder why none of the designers proceed from the TODAY'S realities of the Russian Federation?
    1-complete absence of unpaved airfields in endless Siberia and the Far East.
    2- impossibility of using c-coms with a gas turbine engine for aviation chemical works.
    3 is a very dubious thesis about the possibility of operating s-coms with a gas turbine engine from unpaved airfields of comparable sizes, as for the An-2, i.e. 650X60m.
    I invite experts to argue!
    1. yehat2
      yehat2 15 October 2020 17: 48
      0
      unpaved airfields are not a problem
      other factors are more important.
      1. you need an affordable filling for an aircraft and, most importantly, a modern economical engine that costs no more than one and a half million and works like a cessna from any gas station.
      2. Whatever one may say, the level of income of the population is necessary. If everyone lives paycheck to paycheck, no one will fly.
      3. It is necessary to remove fuel taxes from at least some flights. And in general, you need to think over the benefits in this industry. Transport is very important for our country.
      4. More tolerant rules for the operation of private aviation are needed. Now, for example, in fact, you do not even have any guarantees that at least once the dispatcher will be given permission to take off. Such uncertainty is unacceptable. How to build a business? The same applies to maintenance - very inconvenient rules for poor private owners.
  • faiver
    faiver 15 October 2020 18: 06
    0
    I don't understand this santa barbara, can't you make the engine? Buy a ready-made one with a production license, Stalin somehow did not hesitate to buy, right up to the jet for the Mig-15, and then the pride has seized chtol?
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 17 November 2020 23: 47
    0
    In comparison with really complex projects of military aviation (there are super-tough terms of reference!), Such an airplane in the West is being developed and put on the wing quickly by small air companies .. so what to turn to them? Or do we have those too?
  • Alexfly
    Alexfly 20 November 2020 12: 15
    -1
    nya some again, look at the picture! The cargo door is slanted, together with the floor! What a shiz !! Extend by a couple of frames !! Low-power 800 hp engine .... What's this? The old engine was 1000 .... Why create an obviously not the best option ?? Was there a TVD-20 engine, there is no mind to adjust it anymore or cutting is required more abruptly ?? Nothing personal, as they say, just business ...