Military Review

Masonic liberalism in Russia

227

Lafayette's sword with the insignia of the Masonic lodge. Museum of Freemasonry, Paris


We Have a Society, and Secret Gatherings / Thursdays. The most secret union ...
A. Griboyedov. Woe from Wit

Do you remember how before us
A temple arose, blackened in the darkness,
Over gloomy altars
Fiery signs were burning.
Solemn, granite-winged,
He guarded our sleepy city
Hammers and saws sang in it,
Masons worked at night.
N. Gumilev. Middle Ages


History Russian liberalism. В past materialwe stopped at the era of the reign of Emperor Alexander I, the end of which was completely different from its beginning. However, studying the history of liberalism in Russia, one cannot ignore the Masons. And if so, then let's hold our horses a little and see what relation to liberalism in Russia was also the movement of "free masons", very interesting in its essence, and, no doubt, interesting in the context of our common theme. So, Freemasons and Liberalism.

Masonic liberalism in Russia

A dish with Masonic symbols. Museum of Freemasonry, Paris

Let's start with the fact that Freemasonry appeared in England, and on a specific day of a specific year, namely June 24, 1717, when four previously existing brotherhoods created the world's first Grand Lodge in the Goose and Spit tavern, that is, they took shape in a strict organization. In 1723, the "New Book of Statutes" appeared - a kind of constitution of the Masons, which outlined the basic principles of the movement: love for one's neighbor, the ability to overcome the depravity of human nature, enlightenment, self-improvement, the elimination of evil through re-education and the creation of a "new man." Was the Masonic movement inherently liberal in its essence?

All any doubts! After all, what was written in the same book of statutes? "In our time, a person freely chooses his faith ..." That is, it was about the freedom to choose faith, which a priori encroached on the power of the church. No wonder, already in 1738, the Pope issued a bull in which Freemasonry was declared a sect harmful to the Apostolic Church.


Masonic carpet State Hermitage, St. Petersburg

As soon as Freemasonry penetrated the continent, the attitude towards it became even worse. First, the class barriers in the lodges were replaced by "brotherhood", that is, people from different social strata drew closer together. Secondly, the powers that be did not like the fact that the Masons were trying to create something on earth that was considered more perfect than existing. That is, they, in essence, encroached on monarchical power! The monarchs also saw the danger in the fact that the politicians who entered the lodges would act in the interests of the order, and not the state, or even spy. I did not like the very atmosphere of mystery that the Masons surrounded themselves with. What if they are doing something wrong? Otherwise they wouldn’t be hiding! So reasoned not only the townsfolk, but also the crowned persons, caring about their own power.

The first to suffer because of all these speculations were the Illuminati Order, which used the form of a Masonic organization. And he was engaged in enlightenment, like most of the Masonic lodges, but denunciations against him claimed that the German Illuminati, in particular, the Bavarian ones, were acting in the interests of Austria, which wants the annexation of Bavaria; that they poison their opponents and, by indulging the passions (what a cunning move, however!) of the mighty of this world, acquire power over them.

As a result, the frightened Elector of Bavaria in 1784 immediately closed all the lodges of the Illuminati and Masons, and then banned any secret societies.

And then it turned out that many members of the French Masonic lodges were active participants in the revolution of 1789-1794. And if so, judged the European sovereigns, is there a direct connection here? Well, since the Russian monarchs, not too burdened with education, took “everything as it is” as a model, it is not surprising that after Bavaria, persecution of Freemasons began in Russia, and in 1792 Catherine II completely banned their activities.

Although it began with us in Russia, everything is very good for them. By 1770, 17 Masonic lodges had already been created in Russia, in which both princes and counts were members, and even less titled nobles were counted in hundreds! Russian Masons proclaimed Christian tolerance, conciliarism (that's even how, where did it come from in the 90s!), Praise to the reigning persons, that is, they did not start anything seditious at that time. In some lodges, a fine was imposed on political talk!


Portrait of A. F. Labzin in a blue caftan with the orders of St. Vladimir and St. Anna, 2nd degree, by V. L. Borovikovsky (1757–1825), 1805. The writer and philosopher Labzin was a Freemason, and Borovikovsky was also a Freemason, and also Levitsky and Rokotov - they were all Freemasons! State Tretyakov Gallery, Moscow

So the "golden age" of Russian Freemasonry took place under the very same Catherine II, who eventually banned it. And, by the way, speaking, the freemasons of that time did a lot for Russia. For example, they very effectively fought the famine that hit the country in 1787. It was then that the Moscow Freemasons provided such large-scale assistance to the starving that Russia did not know any examples of this. Naturally, they earned praise from the Empress. But the fear of the French Revolution proved to be stronger than the practical benefits of Freemasonry.

As for Paul I, he was ready to change everything that his mother had done, but, on reflection, it was in relation to the Masons that he decided to keep all her orders in force.

Only Emperor Alexander I changed his attitude to the Freemasons, who allowed the brotherhood in 1803. Freemasonry began to gain strength, but it gained particular popularity after the victorious war of 1812 and the overseas campaigns of the Russian army. Secret societies, for example, the Order of the Russian Knights, dreamed of rebuilding Russia, also began to appear in Russia at this time, but the war interrupted this process. But already in 1816 the "Union of Salvation" appeared. That is, for lovers of all kinds of "secrets" Russia at that time was a very attractive place. There are Masonic lodges here, secret societies appear here, and the government was perfectly aware of everything that happened there, was aware. But for a while I turned a blind eye. Well, the over-aged naughty ones will indulge and quit!


Portrait of Prince Sergei (?) Sergeevich Golitsyn. 1800. Giovanni Battista Damon Ortolani (1750-1812). Tropinin Museum, Moscow. Previously considered a portrait of his brother Vladimir

Why was it so? Yes, simply because even in the Catherine's era, the ranks of the Masons of Russia were replenished by people from the most famous noble families, such as: Golitsyns, Trubetskoy, Turgenevs, etc. A.V.Suvorov and M.I.Kutuzov were Masons. And not in small degrees of initiation! So, Suvorov, when he visited his father in Koenigsberg, was admitted to the Prussian lodge "To the Three Crowns" and there he was initiated into the degree of the Scottish master, which was considered very high. Masonic history of Kutuzov began in 1779, also in the German city of Regensburg, in the box "To the Three Keys". But then he entered the lodges of Frankfurt and Berlin, and later he was accepted by the Freemasons of St. Petersburg and Moscow. He also had a Scottish Master's degree, and in the fraternity the name is Greening Laurel. And here is the question that will interest the readers of "VO": was the same AV Suvorov, if not a liberal, then a supporter of liberal ideas? And the answer will be: yes it was, and what it was! Remember his famous answer to Emperor Paul I: “Powder is not gunpowder, bouclés are not cannons, a scythe is not a cleaver; I'm not a German, but a natural hare "? So, only a person who had picked up ideas about freedom could answer that way, but only not a loyal servant of the sovereign-emperor, anointed of God. He said: “We need braids and curls!”, So he knew what he was saying, for the will of the sovereign is sacred! And it was necessary to take it for granted and not hesitate from the evil one, but know your place! But who is he, this Suvorov, a petty nobleman, who only knows how to fight, well, there are others, let them fight worse, but they do not begrudge him! And rightly Paul exiled him for this insolence to Konchanskoye, because either you recognize the autocracy and rejoice at both curls and braids, as your emperor rejoices at them, or not - and then you are an obvious liberal and a potential rebel.


Portrait of P. Ya. Chaadaev. Sandor Kozina (1808-1873). 1848 State Historical Museum, Moscow

Later, outstanding people of the Russian land, as one, enlisted in the ranks of the Freemasons. Among them were Griboyedov, Chaadaev, the brothers Muravyov-Apostles, Pestel, of course, and 20 more Decembrists. AS Pushkin was also a freemason, who was admitted to the Ovid 25 lodge during his stay in Moldova, although this lodge did not last long. And after all - the same Colonel Pavel Pestel was awarded a golden sword for bravery. Trubetskoy was also a colonel. And such titles at that time were not given so immediately. That is, they were military officers. But for some reason they went to Masons ... In total, there were 121 Decembrists convicted, but 27 of them were Masons.


Portrait of A. S. Griboyedov, I. N. Kramskoy (1837-1887), 1873. State Tretyakov Gallery

However, even before the uprising of Alexander I, the popularity of Freemasonry and the growth of the number of Masonic lodges were so frightened that in 1822 he banned all secret societies in Russia, including Masonic lodges. However, the Masonic lodges played their role in the spread of free-thinking and liberalism in Russia, and a considerable one. Well, A.S. Pushkin, of course, also in some way added fuel to the fire with his poems ...

Well, what about the conclusion? The conclusion from all of the above will be this: the liberal movement in Russia has been hesitating all the time, then it approached the throne - to push the monarchs to the fact that they began to carry out reforms "from above", then they were disappointed in them and looked for allies for themselves (as well as an example to follow !) both among the Freemasons and among the most notorious carbonarian revolutionaries. Paradox, isn't it? Yes, but it was so. Moreover, the psychological “phenomenon of Rostovtsev” that took place on the eve of the speech on Senate Square was precisely connected with such fluctuations.

And it so happened that on the eve of the uprising on December 14, the second lieutenant of the Life Guards of the Jaeger Regiment, Yakov Ivanovich Rostovtsev, wrote a letter to Grand Duke Nikolai Pavlovich, heir to the royal throne of Russia, and in it warned him about "possible disorders" and offered to voluntarily surrender the throne to his brother Konstantin Pavlovich. Moreover, Rostovtsev warned that he had revealed everything to the Tsarevich, as well as the conspirators. Later Rostovtsev became a general and actively helped Alexander II to free the peasants.


Portrait of Ya. I. Rostovtsev with his family. S. Zaryanko (1818-1870). Russian Museum, St. Petersburg

What was it? Is it really a love of denunciation? No, fear of the shedding of fraternal blood and the possible death of the state. That was what then made the brilliant officer of the Guards regiment overcome his disgust for the personality of Tsarevich Nicholas himself (to whom he wrote so bluntly: “You are not loved in the army”) and commit an act that many of his comrades viewed as a betrayal. He wrote about the conspiracy and told Nikolai during his audience. But he did not name the names and asked the Tsarevich to arrest him immediately. On December 14, trying to prevent bloodshed and drive the soldiers back to the barracks, he received thirteen bayonet wounds, broke his head and broke his jaw. Then, for the rest of his life, Rostovtsev was tormented by severe moral suffering. Everything was decided for himself by one single question: which is more important - a duty to comrades or to the state and its people?

Well, then there was what happened: the era of the harsh rule of Nicholas I began, when the very words "liberalism" and "revolution" began to be considered synonymous, and they no longer even remembered about Russian Masons.

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
The flowering of noble liberalism in Russia
Liberalism and Conservatism. From theory to practice
Liberalism in Russia: Origins
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 18 October 2020 06: 31
    +3
    Aha! And here is the "Sunday" Vyacheslav Olegovich! Wonderful. There is reading!)))
    Although I do not like Freemasonry and everything connected with them, it is sacred to read about weapons.
    1. kalibr
      18 October 2020 08: 28
      +3
      "Five O'clock Charlie"
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 18 October 2020 09: 36
        +1
        Great, funny TV series! I reviewed all 11 (if I'm not mistaken) seasons!)))
        1. kalibr
          18 October 2020 11: 15
          +3
          Our favorite family show. I especially like Winchester!
  2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 18 October 2020 06: 50
    10
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, I read it with pleasure, although Suvorov's freethinking to attract his membership in the Masonic lodge is, I think, very strained.
    Our Alexander Vasilyevich was a brilliant tyrant!
    Simple, quick, sharp-tongued - G. Potemkin spoke about him.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 18 October 2020 07: 46
      +3
      Here, Vladislav, now you are again the main sycophant))) So I will not repeat, I just join hi my regards
    2. kalibr
      18 October 2020 08: 25
      +2
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      although the freethinking of Suvorov to attract him to his membership in the Masonic lodge, I think it is very strained.

      It is just quite logical. Either you are a loyal subject or you are not. And the fact that Freemasonry played a role here is undoubtedly!
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 18 October 2020 14: 00
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        It is just quite logical. Either you are a loyal subject or you are not. And the fact that Freemasonry played a role here is undoubtedly!

        But over time, the question of the Masons, Illuminati, secret lodges moved into the plane of something that, as it were, has not been there for a long time and whether it was at all. And if you raise a question about this, then there is a crowd of people right there, which says that this is all REN-TV, riptiloids, etc.
        But the Masons have not gone anywhere. And many secret societies too. But at the same time, knowing about the existence of the Bilderber Club of the same, and regular meetings of its members, the majority looks at it all as if it is not essential and not important at all.
        1. kalibr
          18 October 2020 15: 46
          +1
          Dear Andrey! Why secret meetings when everything can be secretly negotiated online? And ... I had an article here about this club and other "remnants". I was closely interested in this ... And ... dropped it. I wouldn't write even now if it wasn't for our story. All this is not serious today.
    3. depressant
      depressant 18 October 2020 12: 22
      +1
      But the peasants adored Suvorov, and he was like a father to them))
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 18 October 2020 13: 46
        +5
        Suvorov was also loved in the army! Paradoxically, he was close to a common soldier! Many officers copied his behavior, but only a few succeeded !!! I remember a children's book with miniature stories about Suvorov! Suvorov and the Empress, How many miles to the moon, etc. Essentially a collection of anecdotes, but this is the true essence of the image of the Great Commander! And the image of the folk, no less epic than the heroes !!!
      2. kalibr
        18 October 2020 15: 49
        +5
        Quote: depressant
        But the peasants adored Suvorov, and he was like a father to them

        Who told you that? His ancestral possession of Maryevka is near Penza. Suvorov porridge is held there almost every year. Look for any facts about him. And here is the opinion of the people, the quintessence - "tough landowner, no wonder the field marshal!"
        1. depressant
          depressant 18 October 2020 16: 39
          0
          Vyacheslav Olegovich, well, the biographies of outstanding people are not the subject of my keen interest. Therefore, forgive me magnanimously, I forgot the source. But the information struck me so much that I remembered them. I also thought - "tough field marshal"! ))
          1. kalibr
            18 October 2020 16: 56
            +2
            Dear Lyudmila Yakovlevna! It is clear that you cannot know what not all historians know. But here's more. It is on our Penza estate that Suvorov married guys and girls, building them according to their height. Although many have already agreed. It's just ... it's just, it wasn't always profitable to marry a peasant early for a guy. Because, as with a wife and children in the same hut is a hassle. And to separate the married man - to divide the land !!! And he - once or twice, build up in height, march to the church. There, in the church, the couples got messed up, they had to build again ... But don't cross the master! He ordered the peasants to form and buy recruits for the army so as not to surrender their men. It’s the recruit’s peasants to surrender the benefit: fewer peasants - the land cannot be divided. And he - no-no! Add up, buy and hand over a recruit from someone else's village! I didn't pay my own money, of course! For all this, the peasants loved Suvorov, they just doted in him! Although yes - rarely flogged and set up many churches! And in Maryevka - stone!
            1. depressant
              depressant 18 October 2020 17: 51
              +1
              Yes, about marriage "by height" - I remembered it was in that article)))
              In general, I noticed that many bosses prefer to think that their subordinates love them and, having convinced themselves, begin to love their subordinates or at least less atrocities, remaining within the framework of "strict justice". Subordinates, pretending to love the boss, subconsciously coax him with this. Everyone is happy. So in the story with Suvorov, apparently, it was. Social contract as possible. By the way, filth for the sake of building a state, by that time already excessive.
  3. Catfish
    Catfish 18 October 2020 07: 17
    +9
    Good morning friends! smile
    Just a question for Vyacheslav:
    [Quote] ... Moreover, Rostovtsev warned that he had revealed everything to the Tsarevich, as well as the conspirators. [/ quote]
    Whom did he warn, the conspirators, or "revealed to the Tsarevich also the conspirators themselves"?
    [quote] ... He wrote about the conspiracy and told Nikolai during his audience. But he did not name the names ... [/ quote.]
    Somehow it is not very clear, obviously again my insomnia is to blame.
    In any case, I read it with interest.
    And the rebellion of the Decembrists, in my opinion, is a kind of "Zvizdets of captivating fortune", not a rebellion, but neither fish nor meat.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 18 October 2020 07: 50
      +5
      Konstantin hi ... It looked awkward. But they seemed to be waiting for Konstantin to support them (not you, another, Romanov)
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 18 October 2020 08: 03
        +5
        Obviously, not me. laughing Even if it were me, I would not support it anyway! For not fig! angry
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 18 October 2020 08: 06
          +1
          So he seems to think the same
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 18 October 2020 08: 08
            +2
            And there were smart people at that time. smile

            Konstantin Palych
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 18 October 2020 11: 30
          +5
          However, the Marine crew supported.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 18 October 2020 11: 36
            +5
            There was no ship crew there, they sat in the barracks and toiled in the foolishness.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 18 October 2020 11: 48
              +3
              Sound familiar?
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 18 October 2020 12: 02
                +3
                Reminds me if we mean the same thing. And also in the fall.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 18 October 2020 12: 04
                  +3
                  Not in the fall, three years in a row.
      2. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 18 October 2020 12: 35
        +2
        Quote: Icelord
        But they seemed to be waiting for Konstantin to support them (not you, another, Romanov)

        There is such a version.
    2. kalibr
      18 October 2020 08: 21
      +2
      I came to him for an audience and gave him a letter to read, where he warned of a conspiracy and offered to transfer power to Constantine voluntarily. But when he began to question him, he did not name anyone. Asked to arrest him. Then he came to his comrades and told them everything.
      1. Icelord
        Icelord 18 October 2020 08: 56
        +2
        And after all, what is characteristic is not arrested. I wonder if Dzhugashvili too?
        1. Senior seaman
          Senior seaman 18 October 2020 12: 51
          +4
          Quote: Icelord
          And after all, what is characteristic is not arrested.

          And with what fright?
          Just Rostovtsev served in the Life Rangers, i.e. in the first guards division, and Nikola commanded the second. The period of the interregnum, the status of Nicholas himself is not very clear, either the tsar, or not the tsar ...
          1. Icelord
            Icelord 18 October 2020 12: 58
            +2
            Once he offered, then he believed that there was enough status
            1. Senior seaman
              Senior seaman 18 October 2020 13: 29
              +3
              Or he knew he wouldn't arrest :))
              1. Icelord
                Icelord 18 October 2020 13: 30
                +3
                This is also possible
    3. ee2100
      ee2100 18 October 2020 08: 58
      +3
      Good morning!
      "" not a rebellion, but neither fish, nor meat "is a prototype of the GKChP.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 18 October 2020 08: 59
        +3
        Yeah, there was someone to take an example from. laughing
  4. Icelord
    Icelord 18 October 2020 07: 17
    +5
    I have three Masonic swords, two American swords, one just French. They are inexpensive, but beautiful. They are not particularly appreciated by collectors as they are purely ceremonial, but I like to hang on the carpet
  5. Boris55
    Boris55 18 October 2020 07: 51
    +4
    Quote: V. Shpakovsky
    Everything was decided for himself by one single question: which is more important - a duty to comrades or to the state and its people?

    And what is there to decide? The interests of the state should come first, for the state is a system for the survival of the people, the preservation of its culture, language - identity. There will be no state, there will be no people, no comrades - everyone will survive as he can. There will be no time for love of neighbor.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 18 October 2020 07: 55
      +9
      Brotherhood of war is such a thing that the dilemma is serious. It was with me when I caught my officers smuggling heroin. God forbid to decide this again
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 18 October 2020 08: 20
        +7
        Yes ... you can't envy that, I understand. I will not even ask how it ended.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 18 October 2020 08: 25
          11
          Why, I handed them over. Of course, the number showed a different one, so that the army was flooded but not imprisoned. We had such horror with heroin in the 90s in Uzbekistan, drug addicts killed for a penny. And I am a border guard, and ideological, did not let
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 18 October 2020 08: 50
            10
            I can imagine what it was like for you there if people were killed right under our windows in our capital. There were two cases at our house: one was simply shot, and the second in the "Merina" was banged on the Smolenskaya embankment, this is not counting the tank shots from the bridge next door. Yes ... there were times, damn them.
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 18 October 2020 08: 54
              11
              But I must say, now we have neither heroin nor murders. So they probably fought for a reason. And now they'll probably minus me, but the Americans also helped
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 18 October 2020 09: 01
                +9
                A certain category is minded, and the patients are not offended. Spit. smile
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 18 October 2020 10: 10
                  +5
                  Konstantin, I asked for carbine in another thread. I wonder what is famous for that? Some kind of legendary personality
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 18 October 2020 10: 40
                    +5
                    He was a diehard fan of the Hungarian gunsmith Kiraly and the Soviet TT pistol cartridge. Whatever the conversation went on, everything ultimately rested on these two subjects. He considered the people around him to be complete and d and o m and, about which with all the spontaneity and reported in his comments, for which he was constantly thrown from the site, but he, like Phoenix, was reborn again under new nicknames. But, as soon as he appeared, he was instantly recognized and the admins immediately kicked him in the ass. But now, for a long time already, no rumor or spirit about him. In general, in my opinion, a sick person.
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 18 October 2020 10: 50
                      +4
                      What? Normal cartridge, Mauser laughing
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 18 October 2020 10: 53
                        +8
                        So I do not argue that the cartridge is normal, only for Karbine there were no others at all, it all came down to him. It's like talking to a Martian - it all comes down to the channels.
                      2. Icelord
                        Icelord 18 October 2020 11: 08
                        +4
                        Bravo, convey my condolences to him when he uses this cartridge in a counter-sniper game. But of course it will come out late. Alas sad
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 18 October 2020 11: 15
                        +3
                        Alas, I cannot convey, our dear disappeared in an unknown space. request
                      4. Icelord
                        Icelord 18 October 2020 11: 17
                        +5
                        Looks like the cartridge did not survive laughing
                      5. Catfish
                        Catfish 18 October 2020 11: 20
                        +5
                        Excellent epitaph, bravo! laughing laughing laughing drinks
      2. kalibr
        18 October 2020 09: 09
        +7
        Quote: Icelord
        Americans also helped

        I come to Saratov. I go to the Minister of Public Relations, he told me: "Do you know, Barack Obama has just become a Senator, and has he already come here to us?" I - ????. He - "Yes, to Engels. See how our atomic weapons are stored with US money ..." It's good that I sat there. Would stand - fell! But it wasn't my grandmother who told me on the street. Regional government minister!
        A similar situation was in Chapayevsk. Somehow it will be possible to tell more about this ...
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 18 October 2020 09: 12
          +5
          Well, Obama is .... I generally love Republicans. But they cleared the border for us
        2. Icelord
          Icelord 18 October 2020 11: 45
          +3
          By the way, you are more careful there, with a vigorous bomb. And then what kind of "Obama" will arrive. That's the truth, but why all this? After all, no one will show real weapons
        3. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 18 October 2020 13: 48
          0
          Going to the Minister of Public Relations

          It seems that this "minister" is as professional as the former head of the Defense Ministry, Marshal Taburetkin.
          1. kalibr
            18 October 2020 14: 04
            +2
            What does a professional have to do with it? He talked about what happened and what he was a witness to. He didn't talk professionally - you mean that?
          2. VoroncoV
            VoroncoV 18 October 2020 14: 06
            -2
            Quote: Aviator_
            Going to the Minister of Public Relations

            It seems that this "minister" is as professional as the former head of the Defense Ministry, Marshal Taburetkin.

            Well, "stooltkin" still prepared the Army for reforming and rearmament
            Shoigu came and it all began! hi Such cases are not done in a year, the preparation was secretive Open the site archives 10-15 years ago and compare
            Whipping boys usually recruited at that time "stooltkin, Medvedev, etc."
            And the work was performed by men who have not been advertised and are not advertised until now ..
            A sort of hidden team of analysts and security officials.
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 18 October 2020 14: 09
              +4
              And the work was performed by men who have not been advertised and are not advertised until now ..
              A sort of hidden team of analysts and security officials.

              Military medicine was destroyed by these, from the "hidden brigade"?
  • bober1982
    bober1982 18 October 2020 09: 18
    +5
    The article is the pinnacle of complete illiteracy, both in matters of liberalism and even more so in Freemasonry. The author does not know or does not want to know that Freemasonry has a single center and does not have national borders.
    The fact that Russian Masons proclaimed Christian (!!!! ????) tolerance and collegiality (???? !!!!) - this is, after all, the author must agree beforehand. "Faith is taught in the wrong way," argued the greatest and, I'm not afraid of this word, a talented freemason NI Novikov, and Nikolai Ivanovich recommended how to teach, about which half a word is not said in the article. Elagin, Rosicrucian, and many others.
    The illiteracy rate is simply amazing.
    The author is good at articles related to the activities of Soviet party bodies, materials on a professional level. When he does not take up his topic, it turns out ... yoshkin cat!
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 18 October 2020 09: 26
      +2
      Well, write a refutation. Or at least in the comments about Novikov. I do not believe that the Freemasons decided something. So, a fashionable trick
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 18 October 2020 10: 20
        +2
        Quote: Icelord
        So, a fashionable trick

        Yes, they said everything correctly, but with the only proviso that they started their activity as you put it - they were fond of fashionable foreign rituals, not being a Freemason at that time meant being a sivolap.
        They finished in a completely different way and this can be clearly seen in the entire history of the XIX-XX centuries.
        By the way, the author, with incredible speed, enrolls those who should not be Masons, I have indicated the reason.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 18 October 2020 11: 12
          +2
          Forgive me for the slang, but I don't always speak Russian, I picked it up from the Internet. We have our own "surzhik"
    2. Icelord
      Icelord 18 October 2020 12: 04
      +6
      They have no center. Nonsense that the Freemasons can do something. This is a notion for the weak. Like we would be ogogo, but masons interfere
  • Vladimir_6
    Vladimir_6 18 October 2020 11: 11
    -5
    Let's start with the fact that Freemasonry appeared in England, and on a specific day of a specific year, namely June 24, 1717

    The Holy Victory Parade on June 24, 1945 was timed to coincide with this date.
    By holding the parade on June 24, JV Stalin could well have made it clear to Churchill that he not only understands with whom the USSR really fought in 1941-1945, but that he knew the most recent plans of the Freemasons hostile to the Soviet country.
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 18 October 2020 13: 51
      +4
      The Holy Victory Parade on June 24, 1945 was timed to coincide with this date.

      Do they also organize earthquakes and solar eclipses?
      1. Icelord
        Icelord 18 October 2020 14: 53
        0
        Well, every June 24, bang
      2. kalibr
        18 October 2020 16: 07
        +4
        Surprising, Sergey! I give you +, but someone is TWO minus? For what? Or did you annoy someone even more? I can't believe it ...
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 18 October 2020 16: 11
          +7
          It is often impossible to understand the motivation of plus-minus signers; I have long stopped even trying to do this.
    2. Icelord
      Icelord 18 October 2020 14: 01
      +1
      Eck, how interesting. Where does the quote come from, who is the author?
      1. Vladimir_6
        Vladimir_6 18 October 2020 15: 04
        -3
        Quote: Icelord
        Eck, how interesting. Where does the quote come from, who is the author?

        https://news.rambler.ru/other/44210175-parad-24-iyunya-signal-zapadu-vernoe-s-simvolicheskoy-tochki-zreniya-reshenie/?updated
        There is also a video by I.N. Panarin
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 18 October 2020 15: 06
          +3
          Well ... the word in VO is prohibited laughing
          Please show me the book, and shove these videos ... See for yourself
          1. Vladimir_6
            Vladimir_6 18 October 2020 15: 52
            +1
            Quote: Icelord
            Please show me the book,

            Please show your books and videos on this topic and discuss.
            The opinion of the professor, Panarin Igor Nikolaevich, is more significant for me than the chatter of "Icelord (Igor)", which I hear about for the first time.
            and shove these videos ..... See for yourself

            You stick your advice ...
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 18 October 2020 15: 55
              +4
              You are just a miracle, together with your "professional" I do not write books, I burn them. Inquisition. Have you heard?
              1. Vladimir_6
                Vladimir_6 18 October 2020 16: 06
                +1
                Quote: Icelord
                Inquisition. Have you heard?

                Naturally. Anneal further, inquisitor.
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 18 October 2020 16: 09
                  +3
                  I’m not joking. Try to buy Fomenko from us in Uzbekistan. And who forbade it?
                  1. Vladimir_6
                    Vladimir_6 18 October 2020 16: 42
                    +1
                    Quote: Icelord
                    I’m not joking. Try to buy Fomenko from us in Uzbekistan.

                    After mutual veiled insults, the dialogue takes on the traits of intelligence.
                    Nothing prevented me from starting with this.
                    As for Uzbekistan, it is possible that everything will change for the better. You know that a memorandum of cooperation was signed between the Ministry of Public Education of Uzbekistan and the Ministry of Education of the Russian Federation in Tashkent. At the request of the Uzbek side, 32 specialists from the Herzen Russian State Pedagogical University were sent to the republic. Not as fast as we would like, but everything should come on a positive track.
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 18 October 2020 16: 44
                      +4
                      Well, well, I don't think so soon, I myself work in the administration,
                      Forgive me for the harshness.
                      1. Vladimir_6
                        Vladimir_6 18 October 2020 17: 11
                        +1
                        Quote: Icelord
                        Well, well, I don't think so soon, I myself work in the administration,

                        Congratulations! You have a good job. And I am already 66 years old. But I don’t sit around.
                        I study AutoCAD and do my first projects.
                        Forgive me for the harshness.

                        I would not pay attention, but in the last 2 months this was the fourth comment in this style. Therefore, he answered sharply. So you also excuse me. hi
                  2. napalm
                    napalm 19 October 2020 17: 52
                    +1
                    Well, you can probably find it on the Internet. I have not read it, but I condemn it. In all seriousness. I am not fond of alternative history. Why commented. Himself from Tashkent.
        2. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 18 October 2020 16: 25
          +1
          The writer Karpov, mentioned by you, was in military intelligence, but in the post-war period, out of personal ambition, he attributed to himself the alleged capture of a huge number of languages, about a hundred. As the literary critic V.S.Bushin, also a front-line soldier, established in his time, among these allegedly captured "languages" Karpov included 50 German prisoners who had been escorted to our rear. His inventions and fantasies were well commented on by Bushin in his time. His book "The Leader" about I.Ye. Petrov - a rare hack. He also embellished his biography many times.
    3. Icelord
      Icelord 18 October 2020 15: 47
      +3
      What's 24 then? What is Dzhugashvili's symbol? Or so from the dope, eat mushrooms?
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 18 October 2020 12: 20
    +5
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    Meanwhile, I want to congratulate you. Happy Birthday!!!
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 18 October 2020 12: 26
      +2
      Anton, when? Yes, have a nice day to you
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 18 October 2020 12: 31
        +5
        As the specialist says, today.
        And to you, all the best, Igor!
    2. kalibr
      18 October 2020 16: 05
      +3
      Dear Anton, thank you! Very nice!
      1. Alex013
        Alex013 18 October 2020 17: 18
        +2
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the article! And happy holidays! I join in the congratulations!
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 18 October 2020 12: 36
    15
    Eh, Freemasons, my Freemasons are Rosicrucians and Libersons ... laughing
    To be honest, the topic of Freemasonry in Russian history has always caused me persistent urge to neigh - nothing more. In childhood, we also created our own secret society - and more than one! They created ciphers, secret languages, equipped secret shelters, performed initiation rituals, swore terrible oaths ... But with age, this passed. As hormones hit the head and pulled on the women - all secret societies vanished like a hand. laughing
    I just didn't understand from the article: are all Freemasons liberals or are all liberals Freemasons? And in general, how do these two concepts relate - membership in a "secret organization" with undefined goals and political convictions?
    Well, the passage about Suvorov:
    And here is the question that will interest the readers of "VO": was the same AV Suvorov, if not a liberal, then a supporter of liberal ideas? And the answer will be: yes it was, and what it was!

    it is generally something. laughing Suvorov, a faithful chain dog of the tsarist regime, a knight without fear and reproach, a moderate nationalist, an ardent supporter of serfdom and autocracy, the suppressor of the Polish uprising - a liberal?
    No, of course, the phrase "Suvorov is a freemason and a liberal" sounds enchanting and can generate not only a discussion, but, frankly, "sharp polemics without rules", called in the common people "srach", but Vyacheslav Olegovich, you can't be so straightforward. .. laughing Or is it possible? laughing
    But seriously, for me all these Masonic lodges are childish games of bored post-pubertal boys. One hundred and fifty years ago it was fashionable to be a member of a Masonic lodge (always with a beautiful name), ten years ago - to go to rest in Courchevel, and what will happen tomorrow, who knows? Maybe all bohemia in unison will start joining trade unions ...
    And all this is needed solely so that, while rolling in some salon, some regular "socialite" (how elegantly people know how to call wealthy whores laughing), one could say: “I am in the box of the Orange Cross and Dagger, together with Prince Trubetskoy and Kutuzov himself” or “I was on vacation in Courchevel last year and this is going to be“ well, or ”I am a member of the pharmaceutical industry workers union "... laughing
    1. kalibr
      18 October 2020 16: 04
      +5
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      one could say: "I am in the box of the" Orange Cross and Dagger ", together with Prince Trubetskoy and Kutuzov himself"

      Exactly! Epigraph about what ??? After all, this is what everyone knew then and what they laughed at even then. "Secret Union" ... Why ...
  • Icelord
    Icelord 18 October 2020 12: 37
    +2
    Vyacheslav Olegovich. Congratulations, I wish you happiness, health, longevity and creative success
    1. kalibr
      18 October 2020 16: 00
      +3
      Thanks Igor! Very nice. When you are 66 you feel very acutely that health and longevity are especially needed, and then there will be happiness and creative success.
      1. Icelord
        Icelord 18 October 2020 16: 03
        +1
        As a Viking, I believe that the main thing is luck. What I wish you
  • depressant
    depressant 18 October 2020 12: 39
    +1
    Proceeding from the fact that any article on a historical topic is by no means entertaining reading, but a tool for studying the current state of affairs, I ask myself the question: who are our Masons? According to the listed signs of activity, it turns out either no one or strangers.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 18 October 2020 13: 01
      0
      Well, it scared, they are not. Anyway such almighty
  • VoroncoV
    VoroncoV 18 October 2020 12: 59
    +1
    Massons in Russia, which is what this is all the same ..
    Experiments are being put on Russia and there is a lot of blood ... Maybe the "gentlemen" will be enough?
    Give the Russian people at least 100 years without wars and revolutions to take a breath and we will turn the world! In the meantime, we'll just get out a little and again another world fight. I'm tired of it already! Can bang, so that everything is in dust.?
    1. depressant
      depressant 18 October 2020 14: 03
      +2
      So they say that the Russian Masonic lodge quite exists, and more than 400 people have already signed up to it.
      Based on materials from Komsomolskaya Pravda:

      The historian Platonov, who uncovers all kinds of "conspiracies against the Russian people," once published "lists of Russian masons." He argued that Brezhnev, Yeltsin were freemasons, Gorbachev, Luzhkov, Primakov, Abramovich, Berezovsky, Voloshin (ex-head of the Kremlin administration), Kirienko, Kozyrev, Gaidar, Yavlinsky, Nemtsov (and almost all well-known politicians of the 90s ), Kasparov, banker Aven, ex-banker Gerashchenko, Khodorkovsky, director Govorukhin, businessman Bendukidze, Tsereteli, as well as human rights activists Alekseeva, Ponomarev, Kovalev. And several hundred more famous names. (By the way, the Freemasons themselves officially deny the involvement of Yeltsin, Gorbachev, Gaidar in the Masonic lodges.)
      There are no others, others are far away, about their contemporaries - a conspiracy of silence. We do not see them, but they are.
      1. Icelord
        Icelord 18 October 2020 14: 19
        0
        Madam, maybe there is, I don't know. But even if there is, look at the members, it's ridiculous to think that they can influence politics
      2. VoroncoV
        VoroncoV 18 October 2020 14: 21
        0
        Quote: depressant
        So they say that the Russian Masonic lodge quite exists, and more than 400 people have already signed up to it.
        Based on materials from Komsomolskaya Pravda:

        The historian Platonov, who uncovers all kinds of "conspiracies against the Russian people," once published "lists of Russian masons." He argued that Brezhnev, Yeltsin were freemasons, Gorbachev, Luzhkov, Primakov, Abramovich, Berezovsky, Voloshin (ex-head of the Kremlin administration), Kirienko, Kozyrev, Gaidar, Yavlinsky, Nemtsov (and almost all well-known politicians of the 90s ), Kasparov, banker Aven, ex-banker Gerashchenko, Khodorkovsky, director Govorukhin, businessman Bendukidze, Tsereteli, as well as human rights activists Alekseeva, Ponomarev, Kovalev. And several hundred more famous names. (By the way, the Freemasons themselves officially deny the involvement of Yeltsin, Gorbachev, Gaidar in the Masonic lodges.)
        There are no others, others are far away, about their contemporaries - a conspiracy of silence. We do not see them, but they are.

        I agree Lyudmila our clever love ... Agents of influence have always been and will be in Russia, strange things just happen in our political elite ..
        At first he promoted one thing, and suddenly, as if on cue, everyone began to deny talking something completely different.
        At the peak of the collapse of the USSR, it was so .. And no one understood what happened and why they turned the policy of the USSR to the brink of collapse and now it is not clear what is happening ..
        Israel is now in favor in all countries and here on the site it teaches us the mind to reason ..
        This is how we live our bread and wait for the war and the distribution of world power
        There is a smell of blood in peace and a fight. Again we will have to decide everything
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 18 October 2020 14: 31
          +2
          And who is from Israel? Well, the Lord is with him, a Jew, finally?
          1. depressant
            depressant 18 October 2020 14: 59
            +3
            And modern Freemasonry is organized according to the Jewish principle. For example, a Jew goes to the States or to some other country and knows exactly who to turn to, namely the diaspora, they will definitely support! What we Russians don't have. Our diasporas do not add up. But if you are a freemason, brother such and such, then you have an address, you are called and immediately taken under guardianship, surrounded by help, you will not be lost))) That is what they lure.
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 18 October 2020 15: 02
              +2
              Well, do you really believe that? I live in the states every year, I have not seen the dominance of Jews
              PS I am not a Jew myself wink
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. depressant
            depressant 18 October 2020 16: 32
            +2
            Oh! ... Who are you talking to? )))
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 18 October 2020 16: 35
              +2
              Madam. Well, there is clearly an appeal to the male sex. Anyway, would I dare to address you like that?
              1. depressant
                depressant 18 October 2020 16: 47
                +2
                Colleague ...))) Anything can happen here, especially since so far I have not had to communicate with you, and the site has been placing comments lately according to some incomprehensible principle, and it turns out that one gets a cuff to the other, and everyone has fun)))
                I have seen how on academic topics in history they are cut to death)))
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 18 October 2020 16: 53
                  0
                  Well then, know. I just respect women by definition. So Madame, if I shout, then definitely not at you
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 18 October 2020 16: 59
                    +3
                    The name of the user "depressant" is Lyudmila Yakovlevna.
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 18 October 2020 17: 00
                      +1
                      Anton, what's wrong with Madam? In my opinion, quite kindly
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 18 October 2020 17: 05
                        +3
                        Quite, Igor! Simply, in my opinion, addressing by name makes communication more direct. However, there may be exceptions, I have a personal example.
                      2. Icelord
                        Icelord 18 October 2020 17: 07
                        +2
                        Yeah intrigued
              2. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 18 October 2020 17: 01
                +4
                User "Icelord" name is Igor
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 18 October 2020 17: 03
                  +2
                  Anton. You are a bore))))
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 18 October 2020 17: 13
                    +4
                    Undoubtedly! laughing
                    "Alice, this is pudding. Pudding, this is Alice." (FROM)
                    1. depressant
                      depressant 18 October 2020 17: 40
                      +3
                      Anton, thank you for saying the name of our Ice Lord! ))) Nice to meet you, Igor! )))
                    2. Icelord
                      Icelord 18 October 2020 17: 47
                      +3
                      I'm pleased too. Lyudmila Yakovlevna
                    3. Icelord
                      Icelord 18 October 2020 17: 54
                      +2
                      Lyudmila Yakovlevna. Forgive me, but I'll call you Madame. Can?
                    4. depressant
                      depressant 18 October 2020 18: 03
                      +2
                      Igor, easily! )))
                      It's like a balm for the soul! After all, no, no, and on the street you will hear a man running out of a tobacco shop all the time after you, shouting: "Woman, you forgot your cigarettes!" This is because absent-mindedness is my middle name. Madam - much nicer)))
                    5. Icelord
                      Icelord 18 October 2020 18: 35
                      +1
                      Madam, why smoke? I'm the strongest Kent
                2. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 18 October 2020 18: 00
                  +4
                  At your service, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! hi
              3. Icelord
                Icelord 18 October 2020 17: 40
                +1
                Darn. Pudding me, pudding. No current with a knife
              4. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 18 October 2020 17: 57
                +5
                "What does the knife have to do with it? And what does the robbery have to do with it? Change the wording!" (C)
              5. Icelord
                Icelord 18 October 2020 18: 02
                +2
                Uh .... well, here you have it, poems, pictures, and I, well, a warrior, upoy. Here.
              6. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 18 October 2020 18: 18
                +6
                Igor, "leave your jokes"!
                1. I have been on the forum for four years, and I learned to insert pictures a couple of months ago.
                2. As for the poetry ... This is our "korsar4" game of quotations with Sergei Korotkov. This is not flaunting erudition, just a childish game of "proud" that has reached a different level.
                What does the "warrior ..." have to do with it?
              7. Icelord
                Icelord 18 October 2020 18: 19
                +2
                Yes, figs I would remember the quotes, but the closures are easy request that's why I got divorced three times ... Probably
              8. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 18 October 2020 18: 38
                +6
                I'm officially the only one. However, I will note that it is not worth showing the facts of personal biography in public (forum), because there will always be a mkrzavets ready to personally bite.
              9. Icelord
                Icelord 18 October 2020 18: 39
                +1
                So let him bite laughing swear then I love
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. bubalik
            bubalik 18 October 2020 18: 33
            +5
            I learned to insert pictures a couple of months

            That's about women, here you are really heroes! (C) laughing
          4. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 18 October 2020 18: 45
            +7
            Sergei! hi Here, honestly, we got into the wrong topic! Forgive me, for God's sake, for the revelation ...
          5. Icelord
            Icelord 18 October 2020 18: 45
            +2
            Well, well, it doesn't interfere. I would not find it on the internet. Let there be
          6. Icelord
            Icelord 18 October 2020 19: 02
            -3
            Hey communist. Let's ram, otherwise I'm bored. Stalin is just a nonentity. Here. Enough for a seed?
          7. bubalik
            bubalik 18 October 2020 19: 15
            +5
            belay
            This is how it happens, this is how it goes
            Kohl someone does not find brains in his head.
            He hits hard at the open door
            Like this ram at the gate is here now. (C) hi bully
          8. Icelord
            Icelord 18 October 2020 19: 16
            -2
            Communist? Yes?
          9. Icelord
            Icelord 18 October 2020 19: 17
            -3
            Dzhugashvili goat)))))
          10. Icelord
            Icelord 18 October 2020 19: 19
            -4
            So the victim has come. Om-Nom-nom
          11. bubalik
            bubalik 18 October 2020 19: 34
            +5
            ,,, sir, how vulgar you are in your speeches! wassat
          12. Icelord
            Icelord 18 October 2020 19: 36
            -4
            I just didn't have time to outweigh you. But I'm drunk and you are de ...
          13. bubalik
            bubalik 18 October 2020 19: 40
            +6
            - God, the house is gone. What will happen to steam heating? (C) crying
          14. Icelord
            Icelord 18 October 2020 19: 43
            -3
            Are we clever? I don’t know your quote and don’t want to know. I will regret my behavior tomorrow. But I don't care.
          15. The comment was deleted.
          16. bubalik
            bubalik 18 October 2020 19: 49
            +7
            ,,, you know, rather weak ... You should read the classics. Have you read Turgenev? And Tolstoy? And Dostoevsky? ..
            - However, no: the Chukchi are not a reader, the Chukchi are a writer ... laughing wink
        3. Icelord
          Icelord 18 October 2020 19: 54
          -5
          You cretin, my friend. That's how the nerd is
        4. Liam
          Liam 18 October 2020 19: 56
          +7
          You must be able to drink too. Go sleep it off and do not disgrace yourself here
        5. Icelord
          Icelord 18 October 2020 20: 05
          -3
          Well, I can do that. But it's not your business
        6. Icelord
          Icelord 18 October 2020 20: 07
          -3
          You don't know what happened today, but you are clever.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 18 October 2020 19: 33
    -4
    I'll sober up tomorrow, but you are like that in life. How i hate you
  • bubalik
    bubalik 18 October 2020 19: 38
    +8
    Don't judge a book by its cover ,,, yes
  • Icelord
    Icelord 18 October 2020 18: 15
    0
    But seriously Anton. That ice is my military call sign for a long time. I'm a little frostbitten. Alas request
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 18 October 2020 18: 29
    +8
    As psychiatrists say (I respect this profession very much), "if there were a man, we would make a diagnosis." I, too, slightly psychiatr, want to diagnose everyone present on the forum?
  • Icelord
    Icelord 18 October 2020 18: 32
    +1
    And what. It will be cool
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 18 October 2020 18: 49
    +5
    Sensory impairment. Chronic. In the acute phase.
    In my case, for 30 years already.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 18 October 2020 18: 55
    -2
    They don't like you. You are not a communist. Instead of the red banner, swing babs.
    By the way, where are they?
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 18 October 2020 19: 07
    +3
    They won't. For, I am not pumping.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 18 October 2020 19: 10
    -2
    I apologize. There are two types of people who take me out. Alternatives and communists. Something like this
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 18 October 2020 19: 14
    +6
    In this case, Igor, you have everything ahead of you on this resource.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 18 October 2020 19: 03
    +5
    I will allow myself to fit in.

    Something like this.
    https://stihi.ru/2008/12/26/1988

    Although many classics and contemporaries spoke about this better,
  • Liam
    Liam 18 October 2020 18: 36
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    want to diagnose everyone on the forum?

    Interestingly
  • The comment was deleted.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 18 October 2020 18: 53
    +4
    And when did you discover the need to communicate in Russian?
  • Liam
    Liam 18 October 2020 18: 55
    +1
    I have been communicating in Russian since childhood
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 18 October 2020 19: 05
    +4
    Well, what can I say ... Bravo to you!
  • Liam
    Liam 18 October 2020 19: 11
    +1
    Is this the diagnosis?)
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 18 October 2020 19: 30
    +3
    No way! Your diagnosis, already mentioned "acute sensory hunger", otherwise, you would not be hanging out here. However, this diagnosis is adequate for me.
  • Liam
    Liam 18 October 2020 20: 00
    +1
    Sorry, but this is commonplace. I thought you would say something "sharper")
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 18 October 2020 20: 11
    +4
    I can say more acutely, but this will not be a "diagnosis", but a "holivar", which, as you know, I do not accept.
  • Liam
    Liam 18 October 2020 20: 18
    0
    All the same, the branch is nothing. You can cheer
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 18 October 2020 20: 25
    +4
    If the "branch is nothing", then why?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • bubalik
    bubalik 18 October 2020 18: 37
    +4
    I will diagnose

    ,, interesting belay wassat
  • Icelord
    Icelord 18 October 2020 19: 23
    -2
    This is how they should be scared away. Otherwise they are used to trolling everyone
  • Catfish
    Catfish 19 October 2020 10: 02
    +3
    Oh, damn it ... And how did it get past me? laughing
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 18 October 2020 13: 25
    11
    I don’t understand one thing, why did Vyacheslav Olegovich decide that Catherine the Great was poorly educated?
    And since the fashion has already gone to refer to hudlite ...
    - If you, Your Majesty, are asking about our Freemasons, then we have four types of them: English under the rule of secretary Ivan Perfilievich Elagin - a friend of the King of Poland, Swedish under the rule of Prince Alexander Borisovich Kurakin - Chancellor of Russian orders, and then Prince Gabriel Petrovich Gagarin , Reichel under the rule of Baron Reichel, and after joining with Ivan Perfilievich Elagin under his rule, and, finally, the Moscow Rosicrucian under the supervision of Professor Schwartz.

    - What do they have in common?

    The Chancellor pondered.

    - The common thing is that they set the goal of bringing a person closer to a certain image of perfection. However, entry into these lodges has become fashionable - any nobleman is either a Freemason or a Voltairean ...

    The Empress added angrily:

    - And any freemason is either a swindler, or a shit. However, Masons are different. When Ivan Perfilievich Elagin, one might say - a first-class Mason, supposedly a believer that all people are equal and brothers, two French cooks serving with him, showed up and presented their uniform Masonic letters to join his box, that they were knights of high Masonic degrees, then Ivan Perfilievich got terribly angry, stamped his feet and shouted: "Go out, you fools, into the kitchen, they found me equal with you"... Or when Count Alexander Sergeevich Stroganov invited Cagliostro to mine the Philosopher's Stone, I laughed at him. However, Cagliostro wanted to entangle his Most Serene Highness with his wife - so I exiled him, but there are also such Masons who only hide behind Freemasonry, but do something else.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 18 October 2020 13: 48
      0
      Pikul again?
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 18 October 2020 14: 02
        +8
        Quote: Icelord
        Pikul again?

        No. Professor, Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Doctor of Historical Sciences Andrei Nikolaevich Sakharov.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 18 October 2020 14: 11
          -1
          But a liberal from liberals wink
      2. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 18 October 2020 14: 03
        +3
        https://litlife.club/books/105802/read?page=8
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 18 October 2020 14: 13
          0
          I believe you. Not in church, not deceived
          1. Senior seaman
            Senior seaman 18 October 2020 14: 19
            +3
            I thought you might be interested. The book is not bad :)
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 18 October 2020 14: 20
              +1
              Already interesting. I will definitely read it. Just answered right away, otherwise wait until tomorrow
  • kalibr
    18 October 2020 15: 55
    +2
    Quote: Senior Sailor
    I don’t understand one thing, why did Vyacheslav Olegovich decide that Catherine the Great was poorly educated?

    This was reported by various ambassadors to their states. "She's smart, but not educated enough!" I'm not making up anything. Everything came from somewhere. Moreover, the sources are usually serious.
  • kalibr
    18 October 2020 16: 02
    +4
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    In childhood, we also created our own secret society - and more than one! They created ciphers, secret languages, equipped secret shelters, performed initiation rituals, and swore terrible oaths ..

    Did you play that too? Ha! I had an order of three degrees, which was awarded to those who, in a secret place, at an abandoned construction site, hit accurately the set bricks on the walls. "There will be a war, we will throw grenades!" What is the motivation ?!
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 18 October 2020 16: 17
      +1
      Eh ... and we had democracy in childhood. Everything was decided unanimously .... at my word. And as I remember, no one was offended. Eh .....
      1. Icelord
        Icelord 18 October 2020 16: 21
        +2
        And we played war, there were double-barreled guns, with some capsules. Now I would be stunned, what if a whole cartridge gets caught
    2. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 18 October 2020 16: 34
      +4
      Quote: kalibr
      Did you play that too?

      Yes, I think everyone played. smile They built secret headquarters, calculated and destroyed the headquarters of the "enemy", secretly watched someone from the adults, such as he was a "criminal" or "spy" (depending on which movie was watched the day before), "partisans" in the gardens, looked for treasures, exchanged "secret messages" in "secret languages", accepted comrades into the detachment (or did not accept, if "unworthy" smile ). They didn't make orders and we didn't have any titles either - Makhnovshchina. But training "in case of war" - yes, there were. They trained to secretly move, unexpectedly attack, penetrate into "enemy territory" - the neighboring pioneer camp, with which there was a life and death war, sabotage, break away from pursuit, hide, get food in the forest, etc.
      I can say for sure - poor fellow Breivik, if he tried to turn his trick with such geeks like us, he would be very surprised.
      Could it be that some of the Soviet children could not have this? Wherever I appeared - at one grandmother, another, at some of the aunts - everywhere the games were approximately the same and I quickly fit into the team - everything was clear.
      1. kalibr
        18 October 2020 17: 03
        +4
        One to one! Someone had something that others did not have, but 80% and 20% were everywhere. Everything that you wrote in my childhood was. We also went to fight dudes. We'll see, run after him and eat: Hipster, dude, striped pants smokes a cigarette, checkered pants smokes a cigarette!
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 18 October 2020 16: 31
    +3
    Portrait of Ya. I. Rostovtsev with his family, the work of S. Zaryanko is a rare hack, although it is in the Russian museum. The face of Rostovtsev's wife clearly has nothing to do with everything else. Probably Rostovtsev gave a decent bribe for the museum to accept this canvas.
    1. kalibr
      18 October 2020 17: 03
      +1
      I don't know anything about it.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 18 October 2020 17: 07
        +2
        With the naked eye you can see that Ostap Bender painted with Vorobyaninov. Rostovtsev, it seems, was afraid to leave this image of his wife at home, so as not to get a frying pan on the head.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 18 October 2020 17: 24
          +1
          Well, ask him
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 18 October 2020 17: 36
          +7
          Vera Nikolaevna was a cultured woman and limited herself to one phrase:
          "Honey, send this muck to the Russian Museum, they don't accept that."
          1. Icelord
            Icelord 18 October 2020 18: 30
            +1
            And so it was. Exactly! They are wives
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 18 October 2020 18: 40
              +4
              Women, they are different ... just like us men
              1. Icelord
                Icelord 18 October 2020 18: 41
                +2
                Well ... cats are better
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 18 October 2020 20: 57
                  +3
                  I am a dog lover.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 19 October 2020 10: 05
                    +4
                    "If Jacob was a dog, Jacob would howl from morning till night." (from)
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 19 October 2020 18: 29
                      +3
                      from morning till night.
                      "From Dusk Till Dawn" am
                      However, you did not look.
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 19 October 2020 18: 53
                        +4
                        "From dawn to dusk, in the quiet dusk of nights
                        Serenades are heard, swords clash. "
                        PS If you mean Rodriguez, I saw it. And I liked it. Especially Senorita Hayek. love
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2020 19: 10
                        +4
                        Bravo, Uncle Kostya!
                      3. Catfish
                        Catfish 19 October 2020 19: 44
                        +3
                        Bravo Salme

                        And "the incomparable face of Quentin Tarantino." (C0
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 19 October 2020 19: 49
                        +3
                        "But I told him sternly: Quentin,
                        Maybe you didn't notice
                        But, in general, I'm waiting for Volodka from Russia,
                        And you weren't asked to come in! " (FROM) laughing
                      5. The comment was deleted.
        3. kalibr
          19 October 2020 12: 00
          +3
          Quote: Icelord
          Well ... cats are better

          The dogs bit me ... horribly. But there is no cat! They are definitely better! The teeth are smaller! Although my Barsya has just huge fangs that do not fit in the mouth and stick out from under the cheeks! When yawns, I'm always scared. I am the owner of a saber-toothed cat ...
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 19 October 2020 12: 55
            +2
            The teeth are smaller!

            It all depends on the cat and her upbringing!
            1. kalibr
              19 October 2020 13: 09
              +2
              Exactly! And mine doesn't bite or even scratch. A very kind cat ... but you involuntarily bump into teeth!
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 19 October 2020 13: 13
                +2
                My deceased cat once, frightened of not knowing what, started off my feet so that with its claws on its hind legs it left "starting paths" on my feet for a long time.
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 19 October 2020 18: 18
            +2

            The dogs bit me ... horribly.

            "And I always said, dogs don't like you, Fyodor!" (FROM)
            1. kalibr
              19 October 2020 18: 29
              +1
              At ten years old, Siberian Laika grabbed the leg with 4 fangs, leaving 4 holes. Blood gushed them like fountains! I just grabbed it well, didn't tear the meat. And I didn't have to sew up ... The dark spots are still visible. And then ... small dogs a couple of times.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 19 October 2020 18: 37
                +2
                And I didn't have to sew up ...
                Open wounds inflicted by animals that pose no danger to life are not sewn up in principle. In order not to encapsulate a possible infection. The basics of traumatology.
  • depressant
    depressant 18 October 2020 20: 24
    +3
    And I - boringly all about the same, about Freemasonry. Just give my opinion on the topic.

    The planet was slowly moving towards unity. The economy, immorality, ambition interfered. Nothing has gone anywhere, everything is present, everything is available, the globalists decided: the time has come, no matter what, it is necessary!

    But what about the mentality of nations, peoples, nationalities? How to bring a hedgehog and a snake into one consistent whole? After all, the hedgehog will already resist, at enmity with each other, and thus break the process. And to prevent this from happening, the process of interbreeding is being established with the help of various organizations, according to the charter, allowing people of any nationality, from any country to be members of them, if the values ​​are shared by them. Spiritual bonds, so to speak, the ideals of globalism. And you don’t have to skimp on using all the good and even the best as "braces". That is, the organization is selecting those snakes and hedgehogs who agree to get along with each other, subsequently each implicitly influencing a new ideology on a significant number of people who have not entered the union of the hedgehog and the snake, but thus involving new members in the organization, expanding the area of ​​simply sympathizers.

    Indeed, isn't, say, terrorism international? Does not one of its cells include people of any nationality or race? Includes. This is just an example of how an international organization connects people from different parts of the world. This is also globalization, built on immoral principles. But if there are openly destructive sects and organizations, legal, semi-legal and illegal, then there is no doubt that there are also such legal, semi-legal and illegal, which, acting more skillfully, subtly and sophisticated than outright destructors, set themselves the task of covering with their influence both you can most of the world's population, luring people into their ranks with good "braces". And nothing suits better as a "scrap" than liberalism with its attractive showcase (and what is the wrong side - it does not matter, the main thing is to lure).

    What is it for? And so that in conditions of especially strict ideological discipline and all there rituals, oaths, and other rubbish, the decision of the cell leader is unconditionally accepted by all its members. Interaction with the leaders of local lodges greatly simplifies and facilitates the work of globalists. Indeed, it is one thing when you, all such sublime, address on TV or the Internet at once to the entire earthly population, they say, people of the world, we will be brothers, shake hands with each other - to the population, which will say: "We are for, and where to sign up? " Seeing that there is nowhere to "enroll", the population will shrug their shoulders and go on to kill the enemy with weapons in hand, violating the principles of global unification.
    And it is quite another matter when the order comes from the head of a local, say, a Masonic lodge, who, in turn, received an order from the highest hierarch of an international organization.

    Freemasonry as an undeclared international party, as a supranational ideological structure is one of the tools of world globalism. And there are many such instruments in the form of various sects and organizations that cover their true goal with the good intentions of liberalism and not only, there are many around the world.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 18 October 2020 21: 07
      +6
      Terrible! It remains to be hoped that the "global masons" will invent a mechanism to counteract the "second law of thermodynamics" and stop entropy in the continuum.
      1. depressant
        depressant 18 October 2020 22: 37
        +2
        Anton, you, as always, have fun)))
        But I suppose that the applied globalists, taking into account the sad experience of the USSR, which, to my great regret, snapped at the lure of globalism, changed their tactics without changing their strategy, and at the moment discard old-style liberalism as an untenable tool of Freemasonry. For it didn't work, and why put on a liberal mask, hiding under it your greed, if the USSR no longer exists. Everything became simple and primitive to the point of disgrace.
        It was not for nothing that our president announced that he was no longer a liberal. A command from above has been given: we have neoliberalism now! Not the erasure of borders, but on the contrary, their consolidation and even the dismemberment of such large formations as the United States, the European Union, Russia, and others into as small states as possible, within the boundaries of which any economic formation, up to the primitive communal system, is permissible. Globalists will now work with disunited humanity, with each separate state cell, bringing them to a global order according to the established methodology of supranational organizations, built like Freemasonry. They believe that it will be, perhaps, easier for them, although hardly easier. Freemasonry of the old type, having played its naive role of the world ideological unifier, is giving way to such organizations, created according to its patterns, as the IMF and the World Development Bank - a legal type of freemasonry with an economic orientation. Globalists keep pace with the times, adopting the old iron discipline from the outdated kind of Freemasonry. Let's say our Finance Minister Siluanov is an official employee of the IMF. His position in this organization is called the "Governor of the IMF for the Russian Federation". And he perceives his duties in this organization as a priority in relation to the ministerial position in the government of the Russian Federation. Bones will lay down, but will do as the head of the IMF ordered him, despite the losses for the country from the decision. That is, the tradition of the supra-state partisanship of the Freemasons, if we speak in modern language, still works.
        In realizing their interests through the IMF, globalists now rely not on liberalism as the ideology of raising the personality of each person, but on the contrary, on the abolition of the welfare state. The era of neoliberalism is coming, expressed in tolerance of any form of oppression of the working person by the ruling class. Here is such a rebirth of Freemasonry as a global ideology, which presupposes the seizure of power over the planet not by a handful of dogmatists with their ridiculous, pompous and even dangerous rituals, but quite legal moneybags, allowing tolerance only in relation to their own vices.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 19 October 2020 06: 49
          +2
          Lyudmila Yakovlevna, please explain to me the difference between a working person and a representative of the ruling class?
          1. depressant
            depressant 19 October 2020 08: 19
            +2
            As far as I understand the meaning of Marxism, the representative of the ruling class appropriates the bulk of the surplus value of the product produced by the working people. After deducting production costs, the owner of the production remains a significant part of the income. Since the beginning of the 20th century, thanks to the cunning manipulations of economists and politicians, this part has been consistently increasing, and the worker's income has been decreasing, transferring him to life on credit.
            Unlike representatives of blue-collar occupations of the 60s and 70s of the last century, the current highly qualified worker, even a programmer, can no longer acquire decent housing through quick personal savings and support his wife and a bunch of children on his salary, this is in the past.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 19 October 2020 17: 52
              +2
              Thank you, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! I would like to discuss this topic with you. However, it makes sense for me to prepare.
              1. depressant
                depressant 19 October 2020 19: 08
                +3
                Anton, if you only knew, but I should properly prepare for such a discussion! Once at the institute, I grabbed the top of Marxism as a non-core subject, I don't remember the quotes, I'm incompetent ... But there are deep experts, ardent polemicists at VO, and if Vyacheslav Olegovich dared to post a short article about Marxism just as a historical excursion to geographical areas ideas, while taking on pretty much poison from the connoisseurs of the topic who came running, it would be interesting to insert my own word, I would not refuse to wedge myself into the battle)))
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 19 October 2020 20: 34
                  +3
                  But at VO there are deep experts, ardent polemicists,
                  Are you laughing? Are you kidding? Are you kidding me?))))
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 19 October 2020 20: 59
                    +3
                    Compared to the "buoy tour Vsevolod" from "The Lay of Igor's Host", these are still modest estimates.
                  2. depressant
                    depressant 19 October 2020 21: 20
                    +4
                    Well, you see ... I have read polemics with such a level of appropriate citation of works that it was scary to interfere so as not to become a victim of both citing parties))) Marxist dogmas of a century ago flashed over the heads of opponents with clubs of terrible historical power and descended on skulls, splitting them. The wounded crawled out of the battlefield ... The administration intervened in the conflict, shooting anyone from powerful modern bans and taking the dead from the site ... In general, it was boiling)))
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 20 October 2020 19: 56
                      +2
                      Marxist dogmas a hundred years ago
                      Here I am about the same.
    2. kalibr
      19 October 2020 11: 58
      +2
      Quote: depressant
      there are many around the world.

      Something nobody offered me to join. Although as a member of the lodge I am a very attractive person, huh?
      1. depressant
        depressant 19 October 2020 12: 56
        +1
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, I believe that the closest adepts can be easily found on the Internet, everything is there! And already through them, contact the head of the local lodge, offer myself, they say, I share)))
        Times have changed, you know. The age of total awareness. Nobody runs after potential neophytes with the aim of recruiting them.
        Let's say, in the USA, 1 million 800 thousand Freemasons - as they say, spat, fell into a Freemason. There are about 300 thousand of them in England. There are only about 400 Freemasons in Russia - they were not impressed with the ideology. It means for you there is some difficulty in getting to the nearest one, but if you strain, it will work out. Who seeks will always find!
        The only question is, are you willing to pay membership fees?
        The annual contribution in the United States is $ 100, in Europe it will be more expensive - from 400 to 600 euros, in Russia it is also not sickly - about $ 300 a year and the obligation to make voluntary donations to the cashier.
        Choose where to pay your dues, hehe!
        1. kalibr
          19 October 2020 20: 58
          +1
          Quote: depressant
          The only question is, are you willing to pay membership fees?

          One of my everyday rules is not to pay anyone anything voluntarily. Only when absolutely necessary. Here they made me at the dacha paths of tiles with a border - I paid the workers ... I was in England a member of MAFVA. - they paid 25 pounds a year for me. And they stopped paying, so I did not renew my membership ... So the answer is unequivocal - not ready. A large spotted toad strangles. And I dare not oppose her. I love toads!
          1. Liam
            Liam 19 October 2020 21: 01
            +3
            Quote: kalibr
            One of my everyday rules is not to pay anyone anything voluntarily. Only when absolutely necessary

            Never donated to charity?
            1. kalibr
              20 October 2020 06: 58
              +2
              He donated regularly to help the struggling Vietnam and revolutionary Cuba, and then ... To whom? Sick children? Not enough for everyone, but one or two - what's the point? And again ... I read whose children these are ... and decided that God knows better!
  • Icelord
    Icelord 19 October 2020 09: 04
    +5
    I apologize to everyone present. My relative who is very close to me died, I got drunk and Ostap suffered. I quarreled with everyone both in real life and in the network, now I'm picking up the fragments. Once again I apologize, this will not happen again, I get drunk extremely rarely, this is the third time in my memory
    1. depressant
      depressant 19 October 2020 09: 51
      +5
      Igor, please accept my most sincere condolences. I shake your hand, brace yourself! Spiritual strength and health to you.
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 19 October 2020 10: 05
      +5
      Quote: Icelord
      I rarely get drunk

      We are all human. My condolences. Hold on. hi
    3. Catfish
      Catfish 19 October 2020 10: 11
      +7
      Igor, don't worry about your performance. The guys here are normal and everyone will understand you.
      I sympathize with your grief. Hold on, Man, we're all going through this, unfortunately.
    4. kalibr
      19 October 2020 11: 54
      +4
      Dear Igor! I am so sorry. I understand that compassion on the web is inexpensive, but nevertheless. Remember, when a person at least thought well of you, it will certainly be credited to you.
    5. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 19 October 2020 12: 28
      +5
      My relative who is very close to me died

      Igor, accept our condolences from all of us.
      Sorry, the forum just looked.
      Hold on!
    6. bubalik
      bubalik 19 October 2020 17: 14
      +6
      i got drunk
      ,,,it happens.
      My relative died

      The pain of loss cannot be expressed in words, condolences ,,,
    7. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 19 October 2020 17: 55
      +5
      Igor! My condolences! I could offer all possible help, but - three boundaries ...
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 21 October 2020 01: 44
    +2
    Quote: Icelord
    Brotherhood of war is such a thing that the dilemma is serious. It was with me when I caught my officers smuggling heroin. God forbid to decide this again


    What was not only in the dashing 90s.
    A classmate, working in the FSB, freed a hostage (a large businessman) who was kidnapped and held by riot policemen.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 24 October 2020 20: 43
    +1
    Thanks a lot for your sympathy
  • Alexander Yaroshenko
    Alexander Yaroshenko 26 October 2020 04: 48
    -1
    mason, not otherwise wrote, for blunt brainwashing