Military Review

Combat aircraft. Horror flying ... No, just horror

129
Combat aircraft. Horror flying ... No, just horror

Already once on our pages this plane was considered and there was even an article-reaction. But there it was about a few different things. Hs. 129 and IL-2 were compared, from LTH to the number of produced and used. My opponent argued that the German attack aircraft was almost a miracle of technology, which through careless stupidity did not turn the tide of the war, and stuff like that.


In general, I try to approach the assessment of aircraft with maximum objectivity. Although sometimes it does not coincide with the general opinion, as, for example, when a flying plywood coffin that killed a huge number of pilots, for some reason, most people consider one of the best aircraft of the Second World War.

If anyone is not in the know, we are not talking about the Po-2, but about the A6M2. The plane that lost the war in the air to Japan.


But in the case of "Henschel" everything is very clear, and no matter how I single out the German planes (those that are worth it), but this monster deserves praise, if it deserves, then in the opposite form. But more on that at the very end.

In general, the company "Henschel and Sons" lived and quietly produced steam locomotives, which were known throughout Europe. They did not disdain the construction of trucks and buses. Why not?

During the First World War, the company produced artillery and Tanks.

Aviation part of the concern is associated with the name of Oskar Henschel, the son of one of the founders of the company (Karl and Werner Henscheli), who thought about two things at once: the construction of aircraft and friendship with the authorities in a political sense.

It was Oskar Henschel who proved that investing money in a promising industry can give orders, and financial friendship with those who will determine the country's policy can bring profit.

And so it happened. The year 1933 was marked by several events, seemingly unrelated to each other, but ... Hitler came to power and sent the Versailles Accords, as they would say now, to Minsk. The entire war industry in Germany began to grow rapidly.

At the same time, construction began on the huge plant of the Henschel Flyugzeugwerk GmbH, which was registered in the same year of 1933.

And the orders went. Firm "Henschel" quickly mastered the licensed production of "Junkers" Ju.86 "to maintain the pants" and immediately began to develop its own aircraft. And at the same time money went to the party cashier of the NSDAP.

The first swallow was the Hs. 123, a light attack aircraft. Turned out to be a very successful machine, this biplane performed well in battles in Spain, was bought by several countries and even held out until the end of World War II as a strike aircraft.


But the armament Hs. 123 (2 machine guns of rifle caliber) and 50-kg bombs (up to 4 pieces) were ineffective against armored targets, and the suspension of the container with two MG-FF cannons reduced the already low speed of the biplane.

The bombs, of course, disabled the equipment, but they had to be delivered before it. The Hs. 123 was a very strong airplane, but in the realities of World War II, small-caliber anti-aircraft artillery left little chance for it. Yes, and the fire of an ordinary rifle weapons was very effective against the attack aircraft, since the 123rd did not carry armor.

That is why the decision is ripe to create a new type of aircraft: an armored attack aircraft capable of operating at the front edge of the battlefield against armored vehicles.

In 1937, the technical department of the German Air Ministry issued a concept for such an aircraft, which was called the "battlefield strike aircraft." And a competition was announced, the conditions of which were received by several firms: Blom and Foss, Focke-Wulf, Gotha and Henschel.

It was supposed to be an armored twin-engine aircraft with a set of weapons that would allow them to hit armored vehicles.

"Gotha" refused to participate, "Blom and Foss" went too far with originality with the project of an asymmetric aircraft (in addition, their aircraft was single-engine), and therefore their project was rejected. The Focke-Wulfs did not strain, but took their FW.189 and replaced the luxurious reconnaissance cabin with an armored capsule with a pilot and gunner. The concept of protection against attacks from behind will prove to be absolutely correct in the future.

But the project was accepted from Henschel. And here, probably, the point is not in the behind-the-scenes maneuvers, but in the fact that the Hs.129 project most corresponded to the stated requirements. On the paper.

The chief aircraft designer of the Henschel, Friedrich Nikolaus, did not create anything masterpiece: an ordinary, one might say, classic monoplane with two motors on the wings and the cockpit shifted as much as possible to the nose.


The innovations were inside. And the test pilots did not like them at all. Not every pilot could sit in the cockpit of the Hs. 129 at all, because Nikolaus reduced the size of the armored cabin as much as possible to facilitate the design. Yes, the booking area was reduced, the weight did not go beyond the calculated ones, but ... the cockpit width at the level of the pilot's shoulders was 60 centimeters.


But that was only the beginning!

Such a tiny cabin didn’t allow ... anything! And just amazing innovations began.

1. Instead of a normal control knob, they installed ... now THIS would be called a "multifunction joystick". German pilots called the control body "penis", naturally, in the army's interpretation.

The joystick turned out to be short, uncomfortable and had to be put into quite a lot of effort.

2. A full-fledged dashboard did not fit into the cockpit. Therefore, instruments that control the operation of the engines (oil pressure and temperature, coolant temperature, fuel level indicators, etc.) were placed outside the cab, on the nacelles.

In general, this turned out to be a unique case in the world aircraft industry, no one else was ever perverted.

3. Collimator sight. He also did not fit, because the pilot was aiming through the bulletproof glass. The sight was installed outside the cockpit in a special armored casing.

However, how spacious the Hs. 129 was in the cockpit can be judged from the photo. Not the most spacious Bf 109 and I-16.


Hs.129



Bf.109



And-16

But to all the testers' claims, Chief Designer Nikolaus responded in the style that an attack aircraft is not a bomber, and therefore long-range flights are not his element. And 30-40 minutes can be tolerated in the name of safety.

But, in addition to the tightness, the pilots complained about very difficult control and disgusting side visibility. There was simply no back review as such. So the question arose: which is better, to be alive, but tired, or to die without a sweat?

But how to do it, given that the pilot practically did not control the situation on the side and behind his plane?

The heavy handling resulted in the Hs. 129 being unable to dive. At an angle of descent of more than 30 degrees, the efforts on the control stick during withdrawal became so large that they simply did not allow the aircraft to be taken out of the dive. The dive experiments ended in tragedy when a test pilot in January 1940 was unable to take the plane out of its dive precisely because he simply did not have enough strength. The plane crashed, the pilot was killed.

Things like a long take-off run and low rate of climb don't seem like a big deal compared to the above. And the cherry on top was that the twin-engined Hs. 129 couldn't fly on one engine if needed.

However, it should be noted that the competitor from Focke-Wulf flew even worse.

So a very, very strange plane went into production. True, only in a test series of 12 vehicles. It is difficult to say how the fate of the aircraft could have developed, in fact, Germany was preparing for tank battles against France and Britain, and there, according to generals from the OKW, an anti-tank attack aircraft would be very useful.


But it so happened that Hs. 129 did not have time to go to war. More precisely, France surrendered, and Britain fled across the English Channel very quickly. So in "Henschel" they received an order to bring the plane to mind, improving both the flight characteristics and the working conditions of the pilot.

By the way, this, to some extent, happened thanks to the same French. In the warehouses were seized in very decent quantities Gnome-Ron 14M engines with a capacity of 700 hp. On the one hand, the increase in power came in handy, on the other hand, the entire weight distribution of the car had to be reworked for these engines, since the 14M turned out to be much heavier than the original Argus As410 with a capacity of 460 hp.

But still 1400 hp. - this is much nicer than 920, and therefore the performance characteristics immediately grew. The speed increased slightly, the takeoff run was reduced, and the attack aircraft began to gain altitude faster. And finally, there was an opportunity to somehow fly on one motor.

But the "Gnome-Rones" turned out to be much more gentle and capricious than the "Argus". But more on that below.

But the pilot had to spit. Naturally, because if you expand the cockpit, this is a rework of the entire fuselage. And nobody wanted to do such cardinal modifications of the structure at Henschel. We limited ourselves to increasing the glazing of the lantern and replacing two bulletproof glasses of the frontal part with one transparent armor plate.

The armament also underwent some changes: the MG-FF, which were very old, were replaced with more promising MG.151 / 20.


In this form, the plane went to war. And the war in the East immediately showed another interesting thing: the number of armored vehicles in the Red Army was somewhat different from the data provided by German intelligence. There were much more tanks, so the anti-tank attack aircraft became relevant again. And the order was given to build the plane as quickly as possible. Until the end of 1941, 219 attack aircraft were built.

There was a problem with weapons. The initial set of two 7,92mm machine guns and two 20mm cannons of poor quality was frankly weak. I will emphasize that it was about work on armored vehicles, but here the rifle-caliber machine gun was already about nothing. Replacing MG-FF with MG.151 / 20 was a perfectly reasonable decision, but it did not solve the problem.

Naturally, the jack-of-all-trades tried to strengthen the attack aircraft's armament with the help of field kits, the so-called "Rustzats".

R1 - two underwing pylons ETC 50 for 50-kg high-explosive bombs or AB 24 containers, each containing 24 anti-personnel bombs weighing 2 kg.

R2 is an under-fuselage container with a 30-mm MK.101 anti-tank gun and 30 rounds of ammunition. R2 could be used simultaneously with R1. In 1943, instead of MK.101, MK.103 began to be installed with an ammunition load of 100 shells.


From about the summer of 1943, instead of MK 101, they began to install a new 30-mm MK 103 cannon with an ammunition capacity of 100 rounds. Sometimes it was installed without a cowl-fairing.

R3 - ventral mount of four MG.17 machine guns with 500 rounds of ammunition per barrel. It could also be installed in conjunction with the R1.




R-3 / B-2 - ventral pod with a 37-mm VK.3,7 cannon and 12 rounds of ammunition.


R4 - four pylons ETC 50 under the fuselage. Used in conjunction with R1.

R5 - installation of an Rb 20/30 or Rb50 / 30 aerial camera inside the fuselage by reducing the ammunition load. Instead of an attack aircraft, it turned out to be a scout.

It is understood that some kits (R-3) were anachronistic. It is clear that without the R-1 and R-4, the aircraft was generally ineffective, since 20-mm shells were not at all effective against the armor of modern tanks (except for light ones).

So, without the pylons on which containers with cannons or bombs hung, the effectiveness of Hs. 129 is not worth talking about. It is worth emphasizing here that the aircraft was originally considered as an anti-tank attack aircraft.

The baptism of fire Hs. 129 was accepted in June 1942 near Kharkov. It is difficult to say how successful it was, but in conditions of encirclement and complete demoralization, the Red Army units simply could not resist. Therefore, operating in conditions of complete air superiority, the Henschel pilots reported on 23 destroyed tanks.

There is no data loss, but the fact that there was is a fact. If not combat (although what is there, if the 5-mm engine hood was normally pierced by a bullet from a rifle or DP), then the technical plan. The Gnome-Ron turned out to be complete junk, very sensitive to dust.

Today at stories many considerations about the fact that it was the long arms of the French Resistance who spoiled the engines. Doubtful and unsubstantiated, the engineering services of the Germans, I am sure, were able to determine that this was a factory defect or a real sabotage.

But history has preserved more than enough complaints and requests to send dust filters.

As for criticism and complaints, ordinary Luftwaffe pilots were amazed by the fact that the new aircraft seemed to fly faster than the Ju.87, but not much. Well, the fact that "Stuka" in terms of maneuverability looked like a fighter against the background of a twin-engine armored car. it was already quite amazing.

Hs. 129 could operate only under conditions of complete domination of the Luftwaffe in the sky, this is a fact. How about combat victories? .. Well, the pilots regularly reported on them. How plausible all this is, I cannot judge.


One of the anti-tank squadrons under the command of Chief Lieutenant Eggers as part of the 51st Fighter Squadron "Mölders" made 1942 sorties in a month in 78 and reported the destruction of 29 tanks. In general, I think they were counted, because the figure was so-so. Believe it or not, since artillery and tanks destroyed many times more.

In 1943, it nevertheless became clear that the MK.101 suspended cannon was not good for anything. According to some sources, "it stopped penetrating the armor of the T-34 and KV." An interesting curtsy, it turns out, in 1942 she easily punched, and in 1943 she suddenly stopped.

But the most interesting thing is that it was replaced with the MK.103, which fired the SAME shell, the same weight as the MK.101. But it was twice as fast, 420 rounds per minute against 240. Yes, the ammunition load was increased to 100 rounds, so that now it was possible to fire more times, with the same success.

Yes, a higher rate of fire theoretically provided more hits. But if the shell does not penetrate, what is the point? No. Yes, light tanks, armored vehicles and other equipment - for them the MK.103 was a danger. But normal tanks ... Considering how many light T-60 and T-70 we had in comparison with the T-34 ...

There was another option: to use anti-tank cumulative bombs SD4. But due to the small number of them on board, since one bomb weighed 4 kg, the effectiveness of the Hs-129B sorties was small. The cassette made it possible to dump all the bombs on one target, so yes, if you aim well, the tank was hit by 100%. But if not ... The area of ​​the cluster bombs was only 50 square meters. m.

The maximum inflicted (according to German data) damage from the use of Hs. 129 occurred on July 8, 1943 at the Kursk Bulge. Then, on the march, a column of Soviet equipment was attacked, and, taking advantage of the fact that there was no anti-aircraft cover, the Henscheli, under the cover of the Focke-Wolf, hit about 80 targets.

I cannot judge how accurate the figures given by the Germans are, but they are supported by the information that the counter-attack on the flank of the 2nd SS Panzer Corps did not take place.

But this did not have any significant effect on the general course of the battle on the Kursk Bulge. In total, 6 anti-tank squadrons of Hs. 129 fought on the Eastern Front, that is, the total number did not exceed 60 aircraft.

A drop in the sea.


Soviet pilots appreciated the Hs. 129, and you can even say that they liked it. Indeed, slow, clumsy, half-blind in terms of the "back-sideways" view - why not a target?

The Henschel could not escape due to the speed, the armor did not protect against the shells of the Soviet air cannons, there was no way to defend against attacks from behind. Even the Stuka, with its only MG.15, had a chance to fight back. Henschel did not have it initially.

In 1943 we published an interesting textbook: "Tactics of Fighter Aviation", for cadets of flight schools. It described all types of aircraft in Germany, indicating how it is easier and safer to disable them. Some aircraft such as Messerschmitt Bf.109 or Focke-Wulf FW.190 were given entire chapters, but the Hs.129 was awarded one page.

After a brief technical description and armor protection scheme, it was concluded that the aircraft can be attacked with impunity from any direction, except for a head-on attack. As a combat aircraft, the Henschel was not taken seriously, and this was entirely justified.

Even Rudel's Thing with two 37mm cannons was more dangerous for tanks, because this plane could dive to the rear of the tank, and since the Ju.87 was more obedient in control, it was easier to aim at the target.

So the pilots of the Hs. 129 continued to send reports about the destroyed Soviet tanks, but they were no longer taken seriously due to their small numbers and lack of evidence.

There have been attempts to improve this aircraft again. But there, at the end of the war, a completely unscientific fantasy such as a flamethrower and 300 liters of mixture in a suspended container, W.Gr.21 and W.Gr.28 unguided rockets of 210 and 280 mm calibers had already gone into action. All this luxury was tested, but was not allowed to use.

But the Forsterzond project looked especially cool, a kind of “Shrage Music” on the contrary: six barrels of 77 mm caliber were installed behind the gas tank in the fuselage and directed back and down at an angle of 15 degrees to the vertical. A sub-caliber 45-mm shell was inserted into each barrel.

The system was powered by a magnetic detector that reacted to large metal objects. The detector antenna was located in the forward fuselage. It was all supposed to work like this: when the plane flew over the tank, the detector caught the accumulation of metal and automatically fired a shot. The project did not go into production, perhaps because the detector did not know how to distinguish its tank from the enemy.

A hanging container with a 37-mm VK 3,7 cannon and 12 rounds of ammunition looked more or less human. The MG.151 guns in this case were dismantled, which cannot be called a good option, since in the event of any complication of the situation, all the pilot could count on was two machine guns of a rifle caliber.

Piloting the Hs. 129 with this gun became even more difficult, and there was no question of aiming accurately. Only the first shot could be aimed. Theoretically, the VK 3,7 could penetrate the 52-mm armor of the T-34 turret with a subcaliber projectile, but only when firing from a distance of no more than 300 m, and the 40-mm side armor from 600 m.However, the effective firing time was 2,8 seconds. when shooting at the tower and 7 seconds when shooting at the side. That is, it was really possible to hit the tower with one shell, and three on the side. If - I repeat - to aim on a dive while driving a very poorly adapted machine.


In 1944, the last attempt was made to make the Hs. 129 an attack aircraft. The Hs-129B-3 / Wa was approved for testing, armed with a 75-mm VK 7.5 anti-tank gun (ammunition for 12 rounds in a drum magazine).

The MG151 / 20 cannons in this version were also removed, while the MG.17 machine guns remained and were used for zeroing. In general, something quite wonderful came out. Yes, VK 7.5 hit any Soviet tank, but at what cost!

This monster was made on the basis of the Rak.40 anti-tank gun. The test results showed that Hs.129 is capable of inflicting damage (often fatal) to a tank from a distance of 800 meters, but ... If it hits.

VK 7.5 shells pierced even the IS-2 turrets, delighting everyone. However, the plane flew with this cannon, the weight of which was approaching half a ton with great difficulty. 250 km / h is all that could be squeezed out of an airplane. The fairing of the cannon still created a lot of resistance, the barrel of the cannon was below the axis passing through the center of gravity, and each shot strongly rocked the plane, threatening to throw the car into a dive.

Nevertheless, it was decided to produce this aircraft Hs. 129В-3. He even got his own name - "Can opener". They collected about 25 copies and tried to fight on them. Since the Germans did not voice any laudatory odes, and they knew how to boast, it means that there was nothing to brag about.

Nevertheless, Hs.129В-3 were delivered to the Eastern Front, and one even became a trophy of the Red Army.

And then the implementation of the fighter building program began, and the production of the Hs. 129 was discontinued. The overall result of serial production was 871 copies, of which 859 Hs-129B.

Despite a small series, he fought Hs. 129 on all fronts, even in Africa. But it did not work out at all, the African sand corroded the engines even faster than the Russian dust, even the filters did not save. Therefore, our pilots at Stalingrad were surprised to see Hs. 129 in a yellow sandy color.


We flew the Hs. 129, besides the Germans, also the Romanians. But they used the cars as light bombers without using outboard kits.

There was an incident with the Romanians. In 1944, when Romania turned against a former ally of Germany, there were still two dozen Hs. 129 left in the Air Force, which were sent to fight against the Germans, painting yellow crosses with tricolor circles.

Not saved. Since "own" Hs.129 fought on this sector of the front, the Romanians got it from everyone. Our anti-aircraft gunners did not always look at the identification marks, and fired at the familiar silhouettes of Hs.129, so to speak, "from old memory." So 3 planes were shot down. The Germans and our fighters easily shot down the “new Romanians”.

The last Hs. 129 was shot down on April 16, 1945. The German "Henschels" definitely did not fly due to lack of fuel, but the Romanians made their last combat mission on May 11, 1945, striking the traitor Vlasov's army that was making its way to the West.

That's all, the service of the most unsuccessful German aircraft is over.


Was it, as “experts” of different levels try from time to time to present it, an airplane capable “in the event of mass release” to influence the course of the war?

Definitely not.


Everything, absolutely everything on this plane was badly done.

Engines are weak and unreliable. The hull is cramped, the pilot did not always have the opportunity to escape. The review is disgusting. The controls are heavy and imprecise. Armament is insufficient to solve the initially set tasks.

According to the memoirs of German pilots, the only thing they had no complaints about was the emergency box. There was a gas mask, a submachine gun and three magazines, two grenades, five chocolate bars, a flask of water, and a helmet.

And this is what some are trying to present as a "miracle weapon". In general, it remains to be regretted that the Germans did not rivet more of this. It would be easier.



LTH Hs.129b-2:

Wingspan, m: 14,20.
Length, m: 9,75.
Height, m: 3,25.
Wing area m: 28,90.

Weight, kg:
- empty aircraft: 3 810;
- normal take-off: 4;
- maximum take-off: 5 250.

Engine: 2 x Gnome-Rhone 14M x 700 hp
Maximum speed, km / h: 320.
Cruising speed, km / h: 265.
Practical range, km: 560.
Maximum rate of climb, m / min: 350.
Practical ceiling, m: 7 500.

Crew, person: 1.

Armament:
- two 7,92 mm MG.17 machine guns with 500 rounds per barrel;
- two 20-mm MG-151/20 cannons with 125 rounds per barrel.

Suspended:
- one 0 mm MK-101 cannon with 30 rounds or four 7,92 mm MG.17 machine guns with 250 rounds per barrel or 4 x 50 kg bombs, or 96 x 2 kg fragmentation bombs.

For Hs. 129b-2 / Wa - standard armament + one 30 mm MK-103 cannon or one 37 mm VK-3.7 cannon.
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  1. nnm
    nnm 13 October 2020 07: 02
    0
    Well, the fact that "Stuck" in terms of maneuverability looked like a fighter

    Question to the author and professionals. But was the "Stuck" at low altitudes not more maneuverable than fighters (except for our series I). I just remember Rudel's memoirs with the episode when he left our fighter precisely by maneuvering at extremely low altitude. And he himself was shocked by the skill of our pilot, who remained on his tail. Thanks for the answer.
    1. fighter angel
      fighter angel 13 October 2020 09: 05
      21
      nnm
      There was no "thing" more maneuverable than our fighters.
      At any height.
      Moreover, "gustav-drynolet" with two mops under the wings.
      If you don’t believe, then go at least to the "corner of the sky" and look / compare the speed, climb rate, turn time data for the Ju-87 and the main fighters.
      Seriously, do you still believe this Nazi crap?
      Tryndit mudel-poodle as he breathes.
      90% of his "memoirs" are natural stars.
      Respect yourself - don't believe this Nazi liar.
      1. nnm
        nnm 13 October 2020 09: 11
        +2
        Yes, that's understandable. But as for this particular episode of the memoirs, there is the opposite - Rudel admitted that the Soviet pilot was stronger and that they had already said goodbye to the shooter.
        1. Proxima
          Proxima 13 October 2020 13: 56
          11
          Author, quote: "The project did not go into production, perhaps because the detector was unable to distinguish its tank from the enemy." Immediately I remember the film "Eternal Call": "The main thing is that this machine (milking machine) does not confuse cows with womens titties!" (friendly cackle of future collective farmers) laughing
        2. LastPS
          LastPS 13 October 2020 22: 03
          +5
          If a thing is flying much slower than a fighter, I think it has a fairly high chance of dodging, at least in a fight against a less experienced pilot. Po-2, for example, was constantly in this state and it saved him. As for Rudel, he is an extremely dubious character, at least, because the effectiveness of can opener aircraft, apparently, was extremely low, otherwise there would be aces-allies, albeit with lower scores, such a technique was. Yes, and among the Germans, such unique ones somehow were not found.
          1. PilotS37
            PilotS37 15 October 2020 17: 09
            +1
            Quote: LastPS
            Po-2, for example, was constantly in this state and it saved him.

            Po-2 was saved by a low evolutionary speed (his cruising speed was 100 km / h). I did not find data on speeds (evolutionary or, at least, landing) for the Henschel, but its wing load was 145 kg / sq.m, while the Po-2 had only 40! For comparison, for the Yak-1 this figure was 170, and for Emil - 150.
            All other things being equal, this means that the Po-2's minimum speed was almost 2 times less than that of Henschel and Messer, and exactly 2 times than the Yak-1 ... And if we compare Henschel with the Yak, then there is a difference at minimum speeds was less than 10% (in favor of Henschel).
            So this iron would not have been able to "slow down" the Yak: it would simply become an even better target ...
      2. KERMET
        KERMET 13 October 2020 16: 11
        +5
        Zvezdezh is not a star, but Rudel was an outstanding pilot, as well as a complete Nazi.
        And the same Ju-87 could with a sharp maneuver evade fighter attacks if the fighter entered the attack at high speed
      3. Dilettante grandfather
        Dilettante grandfather 14 October 2020 06: 11
        +3
        Don't like fairy tales and hunting stories? smile I call his memoir Grandpa Rudel's Tales. There are also Tales of Grandfather Carius, too - he falls asleep quite well under their reading ...
        1. Mikle2000
          Mikle2000 17 October 2020 00: 44
          0
          You can question a lot in his stories, but the number of combat missions is impressive.
      4. Jager
        Jager 18 October 2020 16: 49
        0
        Like most of the "memoirs" of the German Zoldaten. I read Otto Karius and think, how did the Germans lose if he stuffed more Soviet tanks in the book for each attack than the Soviet industry produced?
      5. TechPriest
        TechPriest 2 November 2020 12: 33
        -2
        Taki was more maneuverable at low speeds. And to call the authors of the books liars because you do not like them - well, I can also categorically call any of your sources false according to the same principle.
        1. fighter angel
          fighter angel 2 November 2020 14: 17
          0
          techpriest
          "Taki was more maneuverable at low speeds."
          This is from what a binge ?!
          You haven’t heard about stalling during maneuvers at low speeds, have you?
          Prove the facts.
          I warn you right away, the poodle's book doesn't count here.
          Second.
          About the bullshit writers. All the "opuses", or rather the "opus" of the Mudel, have long been disassembled, analyzed and evaluated by the appropriate experts. And conclusions have long been drawn on it. And if you are still sitting on the heap, reading these "chronicles", and besides, you also believe these nonsense, then this is purely your problem ... Have you had any delays in development by chance? It seems that you are broadcasting from somewhere in the 90s ...
    2. Petrik66
      Petrik66 13 October 2020 11: 13
      15
      Rudel was a distinguished pilot and deputy to Baron Munchausen. If you read the memoirs of Kozhedub or Vorozheikin, boredom is boring, no escapes, no adventures, no thousands of tanks destroyed by me personally. He took off, saw, fired, shot down, landed. He was an outstanding bastard, but to believe all his stories is stupid. And the Germans are great, especially the flamethrower impressed. In Afghanistan, we definitely did not have enough of such a machine - such a shaitan in the sky would immediately end the war.
      1. Reviews
        Reviews 13 October 2020 16: 38
        +1
        Quote: Petrik66
        And the Germans are great, especially the flamethrower impressed. In Afghanistan, we definitely did not have enough of such a machine - such a shaitan in the sky would immediately end the war.

        Even before the war, the USSR had enough of its own "flamethrowers" - almost all bombers knew how to work with incendiary VAPs. If not revived at a new level, then it was not so necessary.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 October 2020 19: 02
          0
          Quote: Avis
          almost all bombers knew how to work with incendiary VAPs.


          in the 41st, emnip, there was an attempt by the Research Institute of the Civil Air Fleet to even teach Po-2 to throw bags of fire mixture)
          It seems that it was called PTO-1.
        2. Simargl
          Simargl 13 October 2020 20: 01
          -1
          Quote: Avis
          If not revived at a new level
          What does ODAB dislike?
          1. Reviews
            Reviews 14 October 2020 06: 18
            -1
            Quote: Simargl
            Quote: Avis
            If not revived at a new level
            What does ODAB dislike?

            I really like it very much (if I don't fall under them myself), but it was about incendiary means a la flamethrower. ODABs do not have an incendiary property, and VAPs / ZAPs are the aviation analogue of a flamethrower. The amers had incendiary napalm tanks. Something intermediate between a bomb and an ampoule flamethrower, but not our ZAP / VAP and not a flamethrower.
        3. Petrik66
          Petrik66 14 October 2020 10: 01
          +1
          It was humor. I am aware that tanks with phosphorus were placed on the IL2, which was poured over the heads of the enemies, but this did not give much effect, so we returned to conventional bombs and at 43 to ptabs. As for the spirits, there was a lot of outright rednecks.
      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 October 2020 18: 57
        0
        Quote: Petrik66
        And the Germans are great, especially the flamethrower impressed.

        ))
        what exactly impressed you?
        It is curious, but, as far as I know, initially the aircraft flammenwerfer, according to the idea of ​​the Luftwaffe entertainers, was supposed to serve as a means to throw off the attacking enemy from the tail - to blind and force them to abandon the attack. At least, it was tested on the Ju-88 for this very purpose. It was closer to the 44th year, the Germans attended to "teach" the attack aircraft to water ground targets with a 50-meter jet of the AP from a suspended container. Crazy idea, I must say.
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 13 October 2020 19: 19
          -1
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          to "teach" an attack aircraft to spray ground targets with a 50-meter jet from a suspended container. Crazy idea, I must say.

          The ZAP-6 incendiary aircraft device was similar in design to the VAP and was intended to spray an incendiary mixture over a target with the direct support of ground forces. Under the main tank with the incendiary mixture was placed a small tank with hydrogen sulphide, designed to ignite the incendiary mixture (the mixture included phosphorus).



        2. Petrik66
          Petrik66 14 October 2020 10: 01
          0
          I agree to mark humor with a smiley next time.)))))
  2. EXPrompt
    EXPrompt 13 October 2020 07: 16
    10
    Info is a bit inaccurate.
    Henschel with a big cock.
    The Hs129B3 gun weighed 750kg, moreover, it had a mechanism for dropping the gun in emergency situations.
    According to the descriptions of the pilots, such a Henschel became poorly controlled.

    Otherwise, everything is correct, the main problem is weak engines, a good engine was not given to Nikolaus, in the realities of war, BMW 801 or DB 600-605 were extremely scarce goods to spend their support car.
    Narrow cockpit, poor handling.
    Weak weapons.

    In general, if you look like that, the Il2 also has a not particularly large bomb load, and not particularly effective as the NS-37 anti-tank barrels. All weight reserves have been spent on the hull. And he flew not fast, and not very maneuverable.
    Any aircraft is a compromise of weight, wing area, engine power and combat load on a given structure.
    1. vch62388
      vch62388 13 October 2020 08: 59
      +9
      Il is not without flaws, but with some reserves for modernization. Compared to Henschel, it is definitely a miracle of technology. The shooter with the drill collar could somewhat smooth out the poor backward view and low maneuverability. According to one of the versions, Otto Kittel was killed by the shooter Ila. The survival rate of pilots during a forced landing due to the strength of the armored hull is also on a level.In the German cockpit, in my opinion, the pilot could not help but break his head on the windshield. Well, stuff ... Il is not a gift, but definitely better.
      In general, no one had made an aircraft with an anti-tank gun before the appearance of the A-10.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 October 2020 13: 58
        -2
        Quote: vch62388
        Il is not without flaws, but with some reserves for modernization.

        with which?
        Quote: vch62388
        Compared to Henschel, it is definitely a miracle of technology.

        not a miracle. Although, the circulation makes it "miraculous" - 36K
        1. vch62388
          vch62388 13 October 2020 14: 52
          +2
          The arrow was squeezed in half with grief, the guns were gradually strengthened (20-23-37), the engine was forced (AM-38 - AM-38F).
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 October 2020 15: 30
            -8
            Quote: vch62388
            The arrow was squeezed in half with grief, the guns were gradually strengthened (20-23-37), the engine was forced (AM-38 - AM-38F).

            that's it, that all this "with grief in half." They also forgot to mention the wing. In general, the Il-2 does not look like any special "miracle" against the background of Henschel.
            1. sivuch
              sivuch 13 October 2020 17: 13
              +6
              Why such an ardent desire to get rid of the IL-2? It was in comparison with the Hs-129 that the car was very good. The same shooter gave her a huge advantage.
              1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 October 2020 18: 00
                -4
                Quote: sivuch
                Where does such an ardent desire to get rid of the IL-2 come from?

                yes, no "biting". I don’t understand why the Il-2 (as well as the T-34) should be talked about only with a breath and certainly in an admiring tone? The car is far from ideal, certainly not a "miracle of technology". He coped with his role at the very least - and great.
                1. Crimean partisan 1974
                  Crimean partisan 1974 14 October 2020 09: 04
                  +5
                  At the very least, he coped with his role - and it's wonderful ... at the very least, in the conditions of battles, this is practically nothing ... and so. .. a question for you to fill ... why the rudel didn’t get into it .... so it would not have riveted 500 Soviet tanks, but a couple of thousand
                  I don't understand why about the IL-2 (as well as about the T-34) ... because this is the weapon of Victory on which the backbone of the maniacs was broken and which was made by people in the rear in incredible conditions ...
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 09: 20
                    +1
                    Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                    I don't understand why about the IL-2 (as well as about the T-34)

                    So maybe, in this context, we should talk about people, at least about the terrible greatness of their sacrifice? And not about carelessly made pieces of iron?
                    1. Crimean partisan 1974
                      Crimean partisan 1974 14 October 2020 09: 33
                      +3
                      And not about carelessly made pieces of iron? ..... what was available from that and did and to the hack speech and it can’t be ... so off the mark .... the cessation of balsa from abroad until 42, airplane gliders were made stupidly from veneer (cut sheets from wood), then they made plywood ... there is no hack ... or there was not enough manganese for armored steel ... almost cast iron was poured ... well, what to do ... the front needed ... there was no hack ... there was a terrible reality
                      1. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 09: 36
                        0
                        Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                        what was available from that and did and to hack speech and can not be ...

                        OK, about the storming.

                        What other balsa, what are we talking about? I can say a lot of bad things about Soviet designers, but they did not make such strange designs. That the imported adhesives for gluing plywood ran out - yes, I've heard that.
                      2. Crimean partisan 1974
                        Crimean partisan 1974 14 October 2020 09: 47
                        -1
                        What other balsa, what are we talking about? .... so on a note ... the fuselage hulls of the first series of Soviet aircraft were made from balsa. balsa is stronger and lighter than pine and broad-leaved types of wood ... but after the 41st the deliveries stopped ... therefore they switched to veneer from need, and after 42 they switched to plywood ... that's how it is that is at hand
                      3. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 09: 49
                        +1
                        That is, the USSR made fuselages from the material that it received by sea from Brazil? Even for the Soviet regime it sounds like overkill.
                      4. Crimean partisan 1974
                        Crimean partisan 1974 14 October 2020 11: 18
                        +2
                        Brazil? Even for the Soviet regime it sounds like overkill ... yeah. maybe ... there is only one BUT .... this is published in a multivolume book (why in many volumes. yes because it was edited several times) History of WWII and History of WWII, this is reported. so question these two historical ones, by golly. documents do not make sense ... there are simply no others.
            2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 14 October 2020 09: 30
              +2
              Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
              ... because it is the weapon of Victory

              and if you remove the pretentious component, then what's in the bottom line? Quite mediocre, but an unprecedented mass car.
              1. Crimean partisan 1974
                Crimean partisan 1974 14 October 2020 11: 30
                +4
                Quite mediocre, but an unprecedented mass car ..... albeit mediocre ... but better than going out through the chimney of the Auschwitz crematoria. dachau and other unpleasant institutions .... but you didn’t answer my question .... why the highest award winner, rudel, didn’t switch to the hash attack aircraft, but preferred to switch to the FV-190F. however, he did not bring particularly great results by 190, which with regards to the non-attack aircraft, the author typed everything correctly
                1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 14 October 2020 11: 43
                  0
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  but you didn’t answer my question ... why didn’t the highest award-winner Rudel switch to the attack aircraft hash

                  yes, you know, somehow there is no time to conduct a dialogue with the interlocutor, who sticks the Dachau crematorium into a purely technical plane with some kind of fright))
                2. Crimean partisan 1974
                  Crimean partisan 1974 14 October 2020 11: 47
                  0
                  with some fright, the Dachau crematorium)) ... yes so ... just for the sake of form ... you don't give examples of a hash attack aircraft, ...... and did not answer my question
                3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 14 October 2020 12: 06
                  0
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  . yes and did not answer my question

                  which one? Why didn't Rudel switch to Henschel? The question is rather strange. Why would he do this?
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  .you do not give examples of hash-attack aircraft,.

                  what "examples" are?
                  Examples of what?
                4. Crimean partisan 1974
                  Crimean partisan 1974 14 October 2020 12: 12
                  0
                  Why didn't Rudel switch to Henschel? Quite a strange question ... not really strange ... but you never answered it.
                  Examples of what? .... the author of the publication gave statistics on the effectiveness of the hash .... do you have others?
                5. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 14 October 2020 12: 21
                  0
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  nothing strange ... but you never answered it.

                  Yes, he did not want to and did not move.
                  All? Or will you continue to bore?
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  the author of the publication gave statistics on the effectiveness of the hash .... do you have others?

                  and what, I disputed skomorokhov's data ?? I wrote somewhere that I disagree with the overall low rating of Henschel ?? I just said that in comparison with it (and indeed in general) the Il-2 does not at all look like a masterpiece of aircraft construction - that's all. And the literary title "weapon of victory" also does not make the Il-2 some kind of miracle of technology. You know - pathos separately, LTH separately. What have some "examples" to do with it?
                6. Crimean partisan 1974
                  Crimean partisan 1974 14 October 2020 12: 29
                  0
                  with the rudel it is clear ... I have no more questions about this because there is nothing for you to print about this ... in vain you did not read rudel's memoirs ... he brought everything there
                  You know - pathos separately, LTH separately. ..... nus and how is the hash attack aircraft ... superior to the IL-2?
                7. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 14 October 2020 12: 34
                  +1
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  you shouldn't have read rudel's memoirs

                  rather, I read in vain. As well as the memoirs of Skorzeny and similar braggart. There is little value in them. However, as in the lion's share of memoirs.
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  nus and how is the hash attack aircraft ... superior to the IL-2?

                  no way, damn it. Do you even read comments that you give out your wacky, sorry, remarks ??
                8. Crimean partisan 1974
                  Crimean partisan 1974 14 October 2020 12: 41
                  0
                  stupid, sorry, remarks ?? ....... well, why stupid ... I'm interested in your position .... why do you think that if the hash assault was riveted the same way as the IL-2, then something would have changed on the fronts of the Second World War !!! I assure you ... more attack pilots would have perished ..... Rudel was saved in the literal sense of the word by FV-190 ... so it's not about replicas, but about failed designs ... hash attack aircraft in this number
  • sivuch
    sivuch 14 October 2020 09: 06
    +1
    And someone talked about Ila with a breath? Yes, there were enough shortcomings, starting with the choice of the concept itself, but it performed its functions, in contrast to.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 14 October 2020 09: 20
      0
      Quote: sivuch
      but fulfilled its functions, unlike.

      well, yes, "unlike ..", which were adjusted 45 times less)
  • Selevc
    Selevc 19 October 2020 11: 34
    -1
    I don’t understand why the Il-2 (as well as the T-34) should be talked about only with a breath and certainly in an admiring tone?
    And you look at the rate of advance of the Red Army in 44 - that's why we talk about the IL-45 and the T-2 with aspiration !!!
    If the USSR actually lost as many planes and tanks as the German chroniclers-liars write in their memoirs - it simply would not have been able to advance either in the 44th or in the 45th years !!!
  • Train
    Train 14 October 2020 11: 28
    0
    IL 2 by 42 was already "no" attack aircraft. The leadership of the Air Force demanded that it be replaced with the SU6. Because the IL no longer met literally any requirements, the Air Force literally demanded its replacement.
  • Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 08: 23
    0
    Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    In general, the Il-2 does not look like any special "miracle" against the background of Henschel.

    How to say.

    Henschel, unlike Eel, was sort of a sensibly made plane. But he didn't go, Fok had to redo it. So it is Henkel that raises questions about what the NPP VMV aircraft should be.

    In my private opinion, the Germans in this case were prevented by anti-tank fanaticism. The plane was used irrationally. But he himself, apparently, was not very successful. An unsuccessful engine, poor handling is, in principle, fair.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 14 October 2020 09: 03
      0
      Quote: Cherry Nine
      Henschel, unlike Eel, was sort of a sensibly made plane. But I didn't go

      would you go if it was riveted 40 times more, bringing the circulation up to "ILovsky"? ))
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 09: 08
        0
        You see, I'm not, to put it mildly, an Eli fan. But to make a certain Bronko, but in the conditions of the poor air defense of the Eastern Front, the possibility, in principle, was. But such an aircraft did not really enter the Blitzkrieg concept, and then it was no longer up to it.
    2. sivuch
      sivuch 14 October 2020 09: 08
      +1
      But what a reasonably made one. 2 feeble engines + single.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 09: 12
        +2
        2 sickly ones = 1AM with a bonus for combat resistance. Single - double IL-10, many, including myself, consider a mistake. And the threat from the air for the Germans in 41 is no higher than for the Il-10 in 44.
        1. sivuch
          sivuch 15 October 2020 08: 25
          +1
          There was no bonus. With one engine inoperative, Henschel could only bite into the planet, as did Illyusha. And 2 engines - the probability of failure / damage is higher.
          The probability of an enemy fighter attack was always, and the Henschel pilot was blind as a mole. The shooter could at least warn of the attack, and even the single-seat silt had a much better view.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 15 October 2020 14: 20
            0
            Quote: sivuch
            With one engine inoperative, Henschel could only bite into the planet, as did ilyusha

            Yes? And the article is different.
            Quote: sivuch
            The probability of an enemy fighter attack was always

            In a normally operating air force, fighters should solve this problem. The Germans, by the way, had a radio.
            1. sivuch
              sivuch 16 October 2020 13: 04
              0
              It . what could somehow? Yeah, when flying at low altitudes, with dust filters?
              raznotyag + heavy control = died in action.
              The fighters did not completely solve this problem. And the radio does not replace the eye
  • Mwg
    Mwg 15 October 2020 14: 22
    0
    "The arrow was squeezed in half with grief" - well, it's not true that you are. IL-2 was originally designed with a gunner's seat. It was his staff clever guys who reshaped in the terms of reference before the war, because they believed that the USSR would wage a war with air domination and there would be no threat to the attack aircraft. Then they simply equipped the shooter's place and adjusted the glazing
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 16 October 2020 11: 26
      +1
      Quote: MVG
      IL-2 was originally designed with a gunner's seat. It was his staff clever guys who reshaped in the terms of reference before the war, because they believed that the USSR would wage a war with air domination and there would be no threat to the attack aircraft.

      Actually, staff clever only summed up the theoretical basis for what Ilyushin brought them. And Ilyushin brought sad news to their house: either you need to throw out the shooter, or the attack aircraft will not fit into the TZ in terms of range and combat load.
    2. phalanger
      phalanger 2 November 2020 18: 51
      0
      well, * it was not made by the staff clever *. and Ilyushin himself, and the reason was in a weak motor. and the concept of warfare, with the dominance of the Red Army Air Force, has nothing to do with it.
  • Constanty
    Constanty 13 October 2020 19: 00
    0
    In general, no one had made an aircraft with an anti-tank gun before the appearance of the A-10.


    Ju-88P-1 ??? Me-262 A-1a / U4? B-25H Mitchell
    1. vch62388
      vch62388 13 October 2020 20: 09
      0
      And they filled a lot of tanks?
      In that war, the typical target of an attack aircraft was not tanks, but artillery positions (including anti-tank and mortars), which could interfere with the attack of our tanks and infantry, as well as the supply convoy. Tanks were knocked out by other means, or thrown in due to lack of fuel and ammunition.
      1. Constanty
        Constanty 14 October 2020 18: 00
        0
        Excuse me but the Lord wrote
        In general, no one had made an aircraft with an anti-tank gun before the appearance of the A-10.
        a not "In general, an aircraft with an anti-tank gun who filled a lot of tanks before the appearance of the A-10, no one did "!!! Moreover, on the A-10, there really were not so many of them
    2. phalanger
      phalanger 2 November 2020 19: 00
      +1
      Lagg-3, with a 37mm gun in the bow, Yak-9K with a 45mm NS-45 gun in the bow
  • alien308
    alien308 14 October 2020 18: 23
    0
    The Americans did, they didn't have time for the war.
  • Grif
    Grif 13 October 2020 07: 54
    +2
    Hmmm, that's a freak.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 October 2020 10: 02
      +1
      Quote: Grif
      that's a freak.

      compared to Henschel xc. 75 - just handsome ...
  • mark1
    mark1 13 October 2020 07: 58
    +1
    About "plywood coffin", too much - there was no plywood there. And on the topic everything is correct - the plane is not successful.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 08: 24
      +1
      Quote: mark1
      there was no plywood then. And on the topic everything is correct - the plane is not successful.

      Are you talking about a German or a Japanese?
      1. mark1
        mark1 14 October 2020 09: 41
        0
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        Are you talking about a German or a Japanese?

        By topic
  • antivirus
    antivirus 13 October 2020 08: 27
    0
    But there, at the end of the war, completely unscientific fantasy such as a flamethrower and 300 liters of mixture in a suspended container, W.Gr.21 and W.Gr.28 unguided rockets of 210 and 280 mm calibers had already gone into action. All this luxury was tested, but was not approved for use.

    --RValenberg was not alone among the Nazis
  • sivuch
    sivuch 13 October 2020 09: 24
    +3
    Br-693 flew very well with the same Gnome-Rones. But, firstly, the aircraft was originally designed for engines with such weight and dimensions, and secondly, the valleys of eastern France are one thing, and the Don steppes are quite another. And the deserts of North Africa are the third. However, the attack aircraft based at Breguet could have caused much more trouble. Thank God . the leadership of the Luftwaffe looked at the French technology from the very top down.
  • BAI
    BAI 13 October 2020 09: 28
    +4
    1.
    Considering how many light T-60 and T-70 we had in comparison with the T-34 ...

    T-60 - 6000, T-70 - 8000. There were plenty to choose from.
    2.
    But the Forsterzond project looked especially cool, a kind of “Shrage Music” on the contrary: six barrels of 77 mm caliber were installed behind the gas tank in the fuselage and directed back and down at an angle of 15 degrees to the vertical. A sub-caliber 45-mm shell was inserted into each barrel.

    Well, where is the ambush? We also did not lag behind:
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 October 2020 10: 27
      +2
      Well, where is the ambush?

      yes, nothing. The comparison is absurd - a half-ton, stupid platform with eight dozen PP and a block of six anti-tank guns, which is also commanded by the "Teutonic AI". lol
      1. ycuce234-san
        ycuce234-san 14 October 2020 18: 41
        0
        Rather, this device had to be used for night raids on the rear in combination with outboard tanks. In those days, there were no night vision devices and compact radars, so a simple electromagnetic circuit, like sailors' mine devices, was what was needed. And it could be used primarily when flying on instruments in poor visibility (when conventional aviation does not work) against trains, columns, small ships, and transformer substations. It is possible that such cheap launch and reset devices will still be installed on budget drones flying at ultra-low altitude.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 16 October 2020 11: 48
          +1
          Quote: ycuce234-san
          Rather, this device had to be used for night raids on the rear in combination with outboard tanks.

          Below are the performance characteristics of this device:
          Quote: Undecim
          For the magnetic probe to work, the flight height should not exceed 8,5 meters.

          Night flight at an altitude of 8,5 m - no air defense is needed here. smile
          1. ycuce234-san
            ycuce234-san 16 October 2020 17: 17
            0
            This greatly depends on the sensitivity of the instruments - all sorts of geological aeromagnetic reconnaissance personnel can cope from a much greater height. The nightlights on the U-2 flew rather low and the Germans were well aware of their effectiveness. Although it would be possible to bungle a simple tube radio sight: there you just need to understand whether an aircraft raiding in the rear in the instrument blind flight mode flew over, for example, a column on the road, a bridge, a train or a factory in poor visibility, protecting from air defense and fighters, and if so, switch on the igniter in the bomb release mechanism using an automatic electrical circuit. Aviation technology would be very unpleasant, allowing it to bomb regardless of the weather, and it may again be with drones.
          2. ycuce234-san
            ycuce234-san 16 October 2020 17: 38
            0
            In addition, then nothing prevented the direction finding from the ground stationary industrial radio interference and radio transmitters and then bombing them with the instrument, so that the pilot only took the plane to the right place and the automatic system carried out the reset. It is only necessary to transmit the settings for the reset device to the pilot on duty by radio, in flight.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 October 2020 09: 30
    +2
    when the flying plywood coffin, which killed a huge number of pilots, for some reason is considered by most to be one of the best aircraft of the Second World War.

    If anyone does not know, we are not talking about Po-2, but about A6M2 ..


    and why the convict - "plywood coffin"? Quite a strange metaphor. Or was there a comrade in the Imperial Air Force, Rychagov?
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 13 October 2020 11: 35
      +8
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      and why the convict - "plywood coffin"? Quite a strange metaphor. Or was there a comrade in the Imperial Air Force, Rychagov?

      Probably because this pepelats, for successful use, required pre-war eagles, capable of seeing the stars in the sky on a clear day, and even having the combat experience of China. While they were with the fleet (and while the Yankees were in a state of complacent relaxation "we are the best, that we have some japa")," Zero "was the king. The pre-war pilots could make the most of the strengths of the" Zero "and prevent the enemy from taking advantage of the weaknesses. That is, it was not some kind of prodigality of the aircraft itself, but the complex was an experienced machine pilot.

      When the Yankees sobered up and began to show tactics, it turned out that even the Wildcat could fight on equal terms with the Zero. In addition, the situation was aggravated by the awareness of American pilots about the weaknesses of the "Zero" - because all pilots were familiarized with the materials of the study of the Aleutian find and recommendations for conducting combat.
      And when there were middle peasants in the cabins of the Zero, the "hunt for turkeys" began. For without the pre-war prodigies, the Zero turned out to be a maneuverable, but weakly protected flying target.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 October 2020 12: 39
        +1
        Alexey, it is clear that after the Guadacanal with flight shots, the Japanese generally had a full seam, but - why, damn it, a prisoner - a coffin, and even plywood? Thus, in principle, any airplane of the Second World War can be attributed to the category of "coffins".
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 13 October 2020 13: 10
          +1
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Alexey, it is understandable that after Guadacanal with flight shots, the Japanese generally had a full seam, but - why, damn it, a prisoner - a coffin, and even plywood?

          Duc ... apparently, this is against the background of opponents, who were flying "butcher decks", which were distinguished by good survivability. Wait until bullets start drumming on the plane - this means that the Zero finishes zeroing in. After that, start to maneuver. smile
          But why plywood? what
      2. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 08: 34
        +3
        Quote: Alexey RA
        demanded pre-war eagles

        Who ordered the plane and for which pilots?
        Quote: Alexey RA
        and the complex is an experienced pilot.

        Some kind of strange sketch. That is, put Comrade Sakai in LaGG - nothing will change for him, do you think? Or, let's say, it will still be a little short before mid-Dnieper Guadalcanal?
        Quote: Alexey RA
        even Wildcat can fight Zero on equal terms.

        Can not. Reports that same Tacha here many times laid out.

        And on equal terms (more than) with Zero began to fight, suddenly, P-38. Even more suddenly, this refers to the theme "Yak-3 - the king of front-line aviation."
        Quote: Alexey RA
        for with the materials of the study of the Aleutian find and recommendations for conducting combat, all pilots were familiarized with it.

        43th year
        Quote: Alexey RA
        And when there were middle peasants in the Zero cabins

        This is not even the middle peasants, but the Japanese aviation Volkssturm. Not so long ago Kolyadko wrote about the bankruptcy of the Japanese pilot training system (in comparison with the American one) on the deceased warhead, EMNIP.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 14 October 2020 10: 48
          +3
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          Who ordered the plane and for which pilots?

          Well, yes, there were no other pilots before the war, and the big war was supposed to end quickly, on the available reserves. And only when the reality did not coincide with the plans - then all the disadvantages came out.
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          Some kind of strange sketch. That is, put Comrade Sakai in LaGG - nothing will change for him, do you think? Or, let's say, will it still be a little short of the middle of the Dnieper Guadalcanal?

          And what does LaGG-3 have to do with it? We are talking about a machine in which survivability was sacrificed for maneuverability and range. In the hands of Comrade Sakai "Zero" is primarily a maneuverable fighter with a range to match bombers. In the hands of the middle pilot, the same Zero is, first of all, a fighter with low survivability.
          If Comrade. To put Sakai in LaGG-3, we will most likely be able to learn a lot about the "lacquered coffin" that is new and unknown to ordinary combat pilots. For example, how did it happen that in 1942 the Japanese (army men) liked the maneuverability of this machine. smile
          Quote: Cherry Nine
          This is not even the middle peasants, but the Japanese aviation Volkssturm. Not so long ago Kolyadko wrote about the bankruptcy of the Japanese pilot training system (in comparison with the American one) on the deceased warhead, EMNIP.

          And what can you do? Japan had no other chance. Or to train the elite and try to quickly end the war with a crushing defeat of the enemy's forces due to the qualitative superiority of its personnel - after which the enemy, terrified by Japanese power, must request peace. Either ... and there is no either. In other variants, Japan has nothing to catch: in the long race of iron and cannon fodder of "average preparation", victory over the USA does not appear in any way - the Yankees still have more.
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 11: 38
            0
            Quote: Alexey RA
            the big war was supposed to end quickly, on the available reserves. And only when the reality did not coincide with the plans - then all the disadvantages came out.

            Yes. Not only among the Japanese.
            Quote: Alexey RA
            a lot of new and unknown to ordinary combat pilots

            That is, you do not agree that the technical and design level of the Zero differs sharply from the level of Soviet aircraft of the same year?
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Japan had no other chance.

            Yes. However, the Japanese decisions should not be too rationalized. The tendency towards elitism in the 30s was easier to explain: there were sharply more people than planes.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 14 October 2020 12: 29
              +1
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              Yes. Not only among the Japanese.

              Well, yes, their ally's statistics on training and loss of pilots brought one of the leaders of the Air Force to suicide (according to some sources). They also wanted to quickly and effectively finish off the enemy at the expense of the elite, without leading to great Stoilov and the meat grinder of the last war. And as we got bogged down, that's how it began: first we transfer the training formations to combat ones, then we shorten the training course, the resulting greens drop out faster (especially taking into account the discarding of training in the spare regiments), we need even more pilots, we shorten the course again - and the sliding into the funnel begins, additionally fueled by lack of fuel.
              Quote: Cherry Nine
              That is, you do not agree that the technical and design level of the Zero differs sharply from the level of Soviet aircraft of the same year?

              And I don't argue with that. I just argued that the prodigy "Zero", which we see in the memoirs describing 1941-1942, is largely due to the training of pilots.
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 12: 53
                +2
                Quote: Alexey RA
                They also wanted to quickly and effectively end the enemy at the expense of the elite, without leading to the great stoolov and meat grinders of the last war.

                Yes, the blitzkrieg strategy has both pros and cons that are often overlooked. The main disadvantage is that the blitzkrieg strategy does not work well in the 4th year of the war (for the Japanese - in the 6th year).
                Quote: Alexey RA
                sliding into the funnel begins, further fueled by the lack of fuel.

                And then we suddenly see that the famous samurai / Aryan spirit, about which there were so many songs, not entirely without reason, is an awesome problem. Because it allows the country's leadership to simply kill its own citizens for 2 years without the slightest benefit. And the Italians, about whom the songs are completely different, suddenly do everything right.
                Quote: Alexey RA
                the prodigy of "Zero", which we see in the memoirs describing 1941-1942, is largely due to the training of pilots.

                Airplane + pilots + combat experience + surprise effect.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 14 October 2020 16: 42
                  +1
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  Yes, the blitzkrieg strategy has both pros and cons that are often overlooked. The main disadvantage is that the blitzkrieg strategy does not work well in the 4th year of the war (for the Japanese - in the 6th year).

                  At the end of the second year. When there is enough strength in only one direction, and you have to attack the enemy in the most obvious place. smile
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  And then we suddenly see that the famous samurai / Aryan spirit, about which there were so many songs, not entirely without reason, is an awesome problem. Because it allows the country's leadership to simply kill its own citizens for 2 years without the slightest benefit.

                  Well, at TO everything was clear already in June 1942. After Midway, the Americans could no longer fight such an enchanting strategically critical jamb that the remaining Japanese forces could successfully turn the tide of the war.
                  But yes, for the Japanese, the hopelessness of further resistance should have become clear somewhere in August 1943, after the third in a row Essex appeared on the theater of operations: that's it, the American conveyor brought the cycle to the final and began to produce finished products. And to the nearest serial Japanese AV another year of construction and six months of preparation.
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  Airplane + pilots + combat experience + surprise effect.

                  Uh-huh ... comrade. Sakai, pomnitsa, emphasized that it was the combat experience of China that made it possible to extend the flight range beyond the performance characteristics.
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 17: 02
                    0
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    At the end of the second year

                    If you mean Blau, then Germany has been at war since the 39th. The collapse of the Blitzkrieg as a political strategy - BzB, the abolition of the Sea Lion. No success of Barbarossa ended the war for Germany.
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    everything was clear already in June 1942

                    Afterglow.
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    should have become clear sometime in August 1943,

                    Yes. Therefore, I am writing about 2 years.
        2. Engineer
          Engineer 14 October 2020 19: 24
          -1
          Can not. The reports of that same Tach were laid out here many times.

          Reports are reports, but here statistics are much more important
          Opened Osprey F4F vs A5M

          Coral Sea. Landstrom data
          Cats shot down 14 Zeros losing 10 of theirs

          Guadalcanal from August to November 1942. According to Landstrom and Frank
          The Japanese coastal aviation lost 72 Zero in aerial combat. Opposing 70st Marine Corps Air Wing -XNUMX Wildcats

          Carrier aviation - 31 cats and 43 Zeros were lost in air battles

          Total

          129 - 111 in favor of the Cat
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 21: 05
            +1
            Quote: Engineer
            Guadalcanal from August to November 1942. According to Landstrom and Frank
            The Japanese coastal aviation lost 72 Zero in aerial combat. Opposing 70st Marine Corps Air Wing -XNUMX Wildcats

            ))
            Do you understand that the score of 70 cats (from Cactus) against 72 Zero (from Rabaul) is a little not equality?

            But your thought that the Americans go a little too far in their stories about their heroic overcoming, I understand, is not entirely unfounded.
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 14 October 2020 21: 30
              0
              I see.
              And I also understand that the score in air battles of aircraft carriers is a completely refined metric. As far as is possible in principle in war.
              And also that the picture was somewhat more complicated, some of the planes were shot down in the air by non-fighters

              And yet

              And it is also important to understand that everything is learned in comparison. For example, in comparison with the raids from Timor to Darwin. It was also a little unequal. Plus, the japam was opposed not by dull mattresses on flying loaves, but by real knights of the sky on ÜberSpitfires. This is where the master class was
              1. Cherry Nine
                Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 21: 38
                +1
                Quote: Engineer
                This is where the master class was

                Shit in the first place, what is already there. Although Sleeps, unlike a cat, Zero winged like a bull a sheep.

                However, over time, they roused themselves, after all.
                1. Engineer
                  Engineer 14 October 2020 21: 39
                  0
                  And repeat, what is already there
                  So. And what about Zero versus Cat in general ??
                  1. Cherry Nine
                    Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 21: 42
                    0
                    We need to deal with your numbers, so far no comment.
                    1. Engineer
                      Engineer 14 October 2020 21: 43
                      0
                      No problem
                      Although Sleeping, unlike a cat, Zero wings like a bull a sheep

                      It would be nice to figure this out too
                      1. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 22: 00
                        +1
                        Quote: Engineer
                        It would be nice to figure this out too

                        I understand that you have the same attitude to limes as Skomorokhov does to Zero, but you yourself know who, but here you are sketching. Sleep was excellent air defense fighters, the speed and rate of climb of the five are incomparable with the Japanese.
                      2. Engineer
                        Engineer 14 October 2020 22: 14
                        0
                        We all sketch a little, what is already there)))
                        It is important to maintain objectivity behind the sketches and remember that there is no unambiguous and forever established perception of history.

                        Highly recommend
                        http://darwinspitfires.com/index.php?page=spitfire-vc-versus-the-zero

                        Nonetheless, it was a Model 32 Zero that was captured and rebuilt, permitting the trials to occur in August 1943. The 1130hp of the Model 32's Sakae 21 engine was quite comparable to the 1210 hp of the Spitfire's Merlin 46, but the Model 32's weight was much less - 5155 lb compared to the Spitfire's 6883 lbs. As a result of this structural lightness, the Zero had both a superior power loading (4.5 lb / hp versus 5.6 lb / hp) and a lower wing loading (22 lb / ft2 versus 28 lb / ft2).
                        These differing technical characteristics determined the pattern of relative performance between the two machines, as shown by the tactical trials conducted by two experienced RAAF fighter pilots in flying trials conducted over three flying days [2]. Flight Lieutenant 'Bardie' Wawn DFC and Squadron Leader Les Jackson DFC flew against one another in both aircraft, and what they found was not encouraging.


                        The Zero developed its maximum speed of 291 knots at its rated altitude of 16 feet. The Spitfire produced 000 knots at 290 feet, confirming that below 15 feet the two types were more evenly matched in speed performance. Given the Zero's much superior acceleration, in practice this meant that the advantage tipped more heavily in favor of the Zero at these lower altitudes. In comparative tests at 000 feet, the Spitfire was again unable to safely draw away from the Zero. The unanimous conclusion of Wawn and Jackson was that 'the Spitfire is outclassed by the Hap at all heights up to 20,000 feet'.


                        Operations on Darwin are a shame. The Spits fought during landing, they ran out of fuel in the midst of the battle and they fell into the sea. Their guns refused. And they had an advantage over Zero only by gaining altitude in advance.
                      3. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 22: 45
                        +2
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Highly recommend

                        Thank you.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        The unanimous conclusion of Wawn and Jackson was that 'the Spitfire is outclassed by the Hap at all heights up to 20,000 feet'.

                        And if you read the whole text, then the link says that the higher the speed and height, the more you sleep. At low speeds and altitudes, the maneuverability and throttle response of the Zero begins to be addressed. It's not that unexpected.

                        However, attempts in the text by reference to put sleeps on a par with Hawk and Cobra suggest that we are dealing with the usual English whining.
                      4. Engineer
                        Engineer 14 October 2020 22: 56
                        0
                        And if you really collect everything that is in the link, then the following becomes clear
                        1. To engage in a battle with zero without a headroom on Spit is a categorically bad idea.
                        2. Is the advantage to Zero 6 km at "low altitudes"? Charmingly
                        3. Sleeps by the sum of characteristics slightly surpasses Zero, but only on condition that his pilot knows how to fight exactly with Zero.

                        that we have before us the usual English whining.

                        Australian Whining from the Weights and Measures performed by two DFC Cavaliers. Nothing new
                      5. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 15 October 2020 06: 03
                        +2
                        Well what is it.
                        1. To engage in battle with the Yak-1 at the worst without a reserve in speed and height is a categorically bad idea (c) E. Hartmann.
                        2 thousand feet we see, but we don't see 20 nodes.
                        3. Sleep is superior to Zero, except in the conditions in which Zero is most effective. At the place where Merlin's altitude limit, Zero's altitude ends altogether.
                        4. Sleep surpasses Zero in horizontal speed, climb (except for the "candle") and dive. But if you fly illiterately, you can lose - yes, this is exemplary English whining.
                      6. Engineer
                        Engineer 15 October 2020 12: 03
                        0
                        We see 20 thousand feet, but we don't see 200 nodes.

                        We do not see. There are 220 nodes in the text
                        Sleep does not exceed Yap in speed at low and medium altitudes.
                        Sleep can lift off zero at low to medium altitudes or dive or use its best bank speed at speeds over 220 knots.
                        Zero easily breaks away from the Spit in the same conditions, going straight up or performing a sharp turn. Moreover, if the shaver on reflexes follows him in a turn, he is most likely a corpse.
                        And the Yap also has better acceleration, so it is not so easy to realize the advantage in maneuverability at high speed - they can knock down while you pick up this very speed.
                        Sleeping certainly has some advantage, but there is no "like a bull to a sheep" and is close.
                        In the same way that Zero is somewhat superior to Kota in terms of the sum of characteristics, but there is no "cat can resist Zero" at all.

                        Your affectation is playing a bad joke with you
                      7. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 15 October 2020 14: 28
                        +1
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Your affectation is playing a bad joke with you

                        Do not overestimate it.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Moreover, if the shaver on reflexes follows him in a turn, he is most likely a corpse.

                        This is called "flying illiterate".
                        Again. The planes that are definitely stronger than zero are Lightning, Corsair of '43. And both of them are definitely weaker than the five as an air defense aircraft.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        There are 220 nodes in the text

                        220 knots - 407 km / h Yes, at these speeds, zero will flip anyone. Except, possibly I-153 or the like. What are we talking about? Since when has a WWII swivel "has an advantage" over a boombeeper, even such a "not clean" boombeeper, as it sleeps?
                      8. Engineer
                        Engineer 15 October 2020 15: 11
                        0
                        What are we talking about?

                        For the third time, I remind you of something about the degree of superiority. Sleeping over Zero. And zero over the unfortunate cat, with which it all began and which you honor with incredible crap.
                        Instead, I read once again how everything that does not fit into your framework is declared crap, whining, or simply ignored. But there are boom-beaters and swivels. And Lightning with the Corsair.
                        The fact that you are a champion in weaving, I have long been aware. I didn't seem to order a master class.
                        Again. The planes that are definitely stronger than zero are Lightning, Corsair of '43. And both of them are definitely weaker than the five as an air defense aircraft.

                        That is, Sleeps 5 "who covers Zero like a bull a sheep" is no longer included in this list of uniquely stronger ones?
                      9. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 15 October 2020 21: 15
                        +1
                        Our conversation is getting more and more stuffy.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        The fact that you are a weaving champion I have long known

                        It seems like I've already reminded you that it was never a good idea to switch from discussing technique to discussing the other person.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        how everything that does not fit into your framework is declared crap, whining or is simply ignored

                        In fact, the emergence of facts that DO NOT fit into my picture of the world is the main benefit from protracted dialogues with participants, including those who are much less competent than you. In this particular dialogue, the statistics on losses cited by you deserves attention. I have some guesses where it came from, but guessing against numbers is a pretty pathetic argument. You need to understand in detail and in detail, I made a note to myself.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        And Lightning and the Corsair.

                        Lightning was used in Europe, the Corsair was supplied to Britain and could be used there, if there was a need for it. Both were widely used for maintenance. Unlike Spita, whose participation in the TO was extremely limited. Therefore, the mention of these aircraft as a kind of equivalent, with which one can compare and sleep, and zero, seems to me appropriate.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        zero over the unfortunate cat

                        I rely on the reports of the participants in the events from both sides, which seem to me to be consistent. Moreover, if you read the American officials on the Aleutian zero, the superiority of the Japanese in flight characteristics is indicated there quite directly.
                        Nevertheless, I am ready to admit that among the carrier-based aircraft of the beginning of WWII - Zero, cat, Brewster, English absurdities - the cat occupies a solid second place and could fight for the first, if the grumman did not work so openly to get off or, if you like, did not put production considerations so much above combat ones.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Sleeping 5 "Zero covering like a bull a sheep" is no longer included in this list of uniquely stronger ones?

                        These aircraft were used against the Zero en masse and there are Japanese reviews about them. As for Alcohol, it seems that you yourself have described the level of Australian operators quite convincingly.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Operations on Darwin are a shame. Spits fought on landing, they ran out of fuel in the midst of the battle and they fell into the sea. Their guns refused

                        Sorry, but when these same people write that they were prevented from dancing aircraft of the wrong system (that's what they write, the Japanese say the plane dances better) I see an English translation of Rotmistrov's post-Kurdish letter about bad tanks, no more. Except that the tanks were really so-so.
                      10. Engineer
                        Engineer 15 October 2020 23: 14
                        0
                        It seems like I've already reminded you that it was never a good idea to switch from discussing technique to discussing the other person.

                        What's a battle without punching? Yes, and everything was light. But in general, I am always ready to apologize if I hurt you.
                        Therefore, if touched, then I apologize
                        I have some guesses where it came from, but guessing against numbers is a pretty pathetic argument.

                        I did not cite that statistic as absolute truth. I know too well how statistics can be wrong. If you have any doubts, say what, with a proviso, say, my opinion. Maybe we'll dig together
                        Nevertheless, I am ready to admit that among the carrier-based aircraft of the beginning of WWII - Zero, cat, Brewster, English absurdities - the cat takes a solid second place and could fight for the first

                        Yes, no one needs this confession) And even more so for me.
                        The cat proved everything to everyone against the best pilots in the world.
                        This is just an illustration of your inconsistency. The cat messes up because he is crap. He sleeps because the pilots are crap. You sleep like Caesar's wife
                        As for Alcohol, it seems that you yourself have described the level of Australian operators quite convincingly.

                        Don't you think this approach is oversimplification? Blame everything on the pilots? But among them were with experience of fighting in the desert, including one of the best Australian ace.
                        Forgive me, but when these same people write that they were prevented from dancing by planes of the wrong system (and they write, the Japanese say the plane dances better), I see an English translation of Rotmistrov's post-Kurdish letter about bad tanks, no more. Except that the tanks were really so-so.

                        Here we go again. You have a reinforced faith in Sleeps as in the Messiah. In this I see the vulnerability of your position.
                      11. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 16 October 2020 06: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Therefore, if touched, then I apologize

                        You see, it is not my indescribably beautiful inner world that worries me. This is not my first day on the Internet. I don't like the level of discussion given by punchy about mom's ass. Yes, I'm so out of date.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        If you have any doubts, say what, with a proviso, say, my opinion.

                        This conversation should be approached prepared. In order not to become like the average supporter of the IL-2.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        You sleep like Caesar's wife

                        I have Sleep and F4F - two different planes with two different altitude and speed charts. And different weapons.
                        One of these aircraft is the best air defense fighter of its time. The second is a mediocre carrier-based fighter.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Don't you think this approach is oversimplification?

                        Quote: Engineer
                        Operations on Darwin are a shame. Spits fought on landing, they ran out of fuel in the midst of the battle and they fell into the sea. Their guns refused.

                        Sorry, but I don't see any complaints about the plane. Only to pilots and command.
                        Quote: Engineer
                        In this I see the vulnerability of your position.

                        The vulnerability of my position lies in the journalistic, not the scientific and technical nature of the argumentation. I know this drawback. But in 95% of cases, the discussion does not reach the real defense of my positions, the level of the opponent's training does not allow. Actually, that's why I do not welcome the transition from charts to punching.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 13 October 2020 10: 54
    +6
    We flew the Hs. 129, besides the Germans, also the Romanians.

    Lieutenant Muntean was not lucky - our anti-aircraft gunners landed his 129B-2. Next to the cross on the fuselage is the inscription "Come on, girl!"
    The girl, apparently, did not give the lieutenant ...
    1. Captain45
      Captain45 13 October 2020 11: 52
      +1
      Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      We flew the Hs. 129, besides the Germans, also the Romanians.

      Lieutenant Muntean was not lucky - our anti-aircraft gunners landed his 129B-2. Next to the cross on the fuselage is the inscription "Come on, girl!"
      The girl, apparently, did not give the lieutenant ...

      I remember there was a striker named Muntyan in the Yerevan football team “Ararat”. Look at the photo and think, what kind of "Muntians" are fighting in Karabakh? recourse
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 13 October 2020 12: 00
        +5
        Quote: Captain45

        I remember there was a striker named Muntyan in the Yerevan football team “Ararat”.

        Muntian played for Dynamo Kiev. Father's surname, who is from Moldovans.
    2. Sergey M. Karasev
      Sergey M. Karasev 24 October 2020 18: 20
      0
      Since he fought in the Romanian Air Force, then his last name most likely was Muntianу, not Muntyan.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 24 October 2020 18: 40
        -2
        And I didn't understand - what have the Armenians to do with it if the pilot's name Munteanu.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. fighter angel
      fighter angel 13 October 2020 15: 07
      +6
      MiK13
      On the Vf-110 there was simply no place on the dashboard in the cockpit.
      Therefore, the devices giving indications of the operation of the engines were placed on their nacelles.
      Naturally on the side visible from the cockpit.
      Yes, and on the Ju-88 it was similar, the same devices, and also installed on the nacelles.
      And by the way, if I am not mistaken, it was the same on Non-111.
      Therefore, the author is absolutely wrong, speaking about the "uniqueness of this perversion" ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 13 October 2020 11: 53
    +6
    when a flying plywood coffin that killed a huge number of pilots ....... we are not talking about Po-2, but about A6M2.
    I am quoting purely for the author, as the best specialist in A6M2 and its modifications.
    Technical description of the aircraft A6M "Reisen"

    The Mitsubishi A6M aircraft was a single-engine, single-seat, all-metal carrier-based fighter with fabric covering of ailerons and rudders, made according to the cantilever low-wing design .... Fuselage.
    The fuselage consisted of two sections - front and rear ... (https://military.wikireading.ru/13220The wings are two-spar trapezoidal with straight (for A6M3 model 32) or rounded (for other modifications) ends. Wing sheathing - duralumin sheet, riveted to the wing frame with countersunk head rivets ... Tail - cantilever. metal structure with linen sheathing of the elevators and rudders, made up an integral whole with the rear fuselage, except for a small part of the stabilizer.
    something plywood in the design of the A6M2 does not occur at all, from the word at all.
    1. andrey-ivanov
      andrey-ivanov 13 October 2020 13: 11
      +6
      Never mind. It's just that Skomorokhov has a special dislike for "Zero" (it is not clear how he personally "annoyed" him).
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 14 October 2020 08: 37
        +1
        Quote: andrey-ivanov
        it is not clear how he personally "annoyed him

        Akunin has a story for this one, called "PTSD".
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 13 October 2020 12: 03
    +2
    Quote: nnm
    Yes, that's understandable. But as for this particular episode of the memoirs, there is the opposite - Rudel admitted that the Soviet pilot was stronger and that they had already said goodbye to the shooter.

    I agree. Perhaps this is the only passage in Rudel's memoirs that positively characterizes our pilots.
    But local critics foaming at the mouth are convincing that this is also a lie.
    Rudel is like a red rag to a bull for them.
    Let them cool down a little, and revere Walter Schwabedissen (Analysis of the actions of Soviet aviation / Stalin's falcons).
    I love this book very much.
    There are no "truthful" descriptions of the millions of burned Soviet cars.
    Only dry numbers and deep analysis.
  • Alecsandr
    Alecsandr 13 October 2020 13: 16
    0
    The plane, according to the descriptions, was unsuccessful, but the harm from it was probably for the infantry and for the tanks.
    1. sivuch
      sivuch 13 October 2020 17: 20
      +2
      Of course he was. But, if instead of this hive, the Henschel company simply mastered the release of the Fw-190 (for example), the harm would be much greater.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 13 October 2020 14: 25
    +6
    But the Forsterzond project looked especially cool, a kind of “Shrage Music” on the contrary: six barrels of 77 mm caliber were installed behind the gas tank in the fuselage and directed back and down at an angle of 15 degrees to the vertical. A sub-caliber 45-mm shell was inserted into each barrel.

    Sondergerät SG 113 "Förstersonde"
    Caliber - 77 mm, total length - 1650 mm, barrel length - 1600 mm, weight of the equipped barrel - 48 (according to other sources 67) kg, projectile weight - 1,9 kg, muzzle velocity - 650 m / s, cartridge length - 530 mm, projectile length - 140 mm, core diameter - 45 mm, cartridge weight with counterweight - about 12 kg, explosive weight - 20 g, propellant weight - 370 g.
    For the magnetic probe to work, the flight altitude should not exceed 8,5 meters. Naturally, in the combat conditions of 1944, flying at such a height above the columns of tanks was not realistic.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 13 October 2020 14: 28
      +1

      Sondergerät SG 113 "Förstersonde" test
    2. Kerensky
      Kerensky 13 October 2020 20: 54
      +3
      For the magnetic probe to work, the flight height should not exceed 8,5 meters.

      It was easier to release a piece of wire! Shortly against a tank - a shot. Ah, the Teutonic genius!
  • iouris
    iouris 13 October 2020 15: 19
    +6
    As I understand it, the pilot did not fit in the cockpit and controlled while standing on the wing.
    1. Dilettante grandfather
      Dilettante grandfather 14 October 2020 06: 14
      0
      The lid of this flying coffin, like traditional ones, is closed by other people.
  • KERMET
    KERMET 13 October 2020 16: 17
    +1
    Looking at the photo with the pilot in the cockpit, I did not understand - could the pilot independently close his canopy, pushed back to the extreme position? comes to mind - unless you buckle yourself up.
  • Dilettante grandfather
    Dilettante grandfather 14 October 2020 06: 13
    0
    The article is good, thanks to the author.
  • Train
    Train 14 October 2020 11: 24
    +1
    About "plywood coffin" pinned. Then you can not read. The coffin was duralumin, and not bad.
  • Dimasius Bigfootovich
    Dimasius Bigfootovich 14 October 2020 13: 34
    +3
    It seems to me that the "uselessness" of this aircraft since the middle of the war is not at all the fault of its designers, but rather factors beyond their control. On the western front (Germany), by 1943-45, any daytime flights of such devices turned into a form of suicide, and on the eastern front, in the same years, all lightly armored equipment, which was originally its goal, almost completely disappeared from the battle formations of the Red Army. In any other army of that time, Japanese, German, Anglo-American, there were huge numbers of light tanks, armored vehicles and armored personnel carriers, armored tractors and many varieties of self-propelled guns and air defense systems based on them, and even in the same Red Army before 1942 and after 1947 vehicles with similar armor were more than enough. In order to shoot convoys of trucks, jeeps and fuel tankers, any machine guns and air cannons were more than enough, and even more so their batteries like the FW-190 for example. Which, in fact, took the place intended for Henschel. However, it was the HS-129 that became the first mass-produced aircraft with a 30mm cannon, the caliber of which almost immediately after the war, almost ousted all others from aviation.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 14 October 2020 17: 58
    -1
    We can be glad that the Germans had several unsuccessful aircraft.