Unimpeded defeat of the 36D6 radar and the self-propelled 5P85S launcher of the Armenian S-300PS: a reason for the pompous reports of the Azerbaijani media or just another delusion?

Undoubtedly, the unhindered strikes on the 36D6 (19Zh6) radar detector and the 5P85S self-propelled launcher, which are part of the S-300PS ZRDN of the Armenian Air Defense Forces in area n.p. Kahnut, has become one of the most discussed events at domestic and foreign military-analytical forums since the completely technically justified incapacitation of the 96K6 Pantsir-S1 anti-aircraft missile and gun system of the air defense forces of the Syrian Arab Republic through a massive strike by even more inconspicuous Israeli strike and reconnaissance drones-kamikaze "SkyStriker" from the military-industrial company "Elbit Systems".

In the Azerbaijani segment of the Internet, this news was greeted with endless victorious reports in the style of "The Azerbaijani Armed Forces destroyed the S-300 air defense missile system using cheap drones for the first time in world practice," as well as with full confidence of observers and military experts that in the future (in the case of expanding the active sector of the South Caucasian TVD) a similar fate will befall the remaining S-300PT / PS anti-aircraft missile battalions, which form an anti-missile "barrier" over Yerevan and adjacent marzes (regions) of Armenia.

The outdated element base of the early modification of the 36D6 radar detector has provided an unparalleled field of activity for Azerbaijani operators of the Harop kamikaze UAV

At first glance, the jubilation of Azerbaijani bloggers in connection with the incident has good reason. In particular, if, in the course of striking the Syrian anti-aircraft missile and artillery complex "Pantsir-C1", the combat crew of the last advance detected an approaching detachment of several UAVs "Sky Striker" using the 1PC1-1E detection radar (or a more modern modification of the RLM SOC), after which the coordinates of the attacking drones were transferred to the 1PC2-1E "Helmet" centimeter guidance radar and the 10ES1-E optoelectronic complex with further interception by 57E6E anti-aircraft missiles (albeit unsuccessful, since the operating "Pantsir" alone did not have enough target channel to intercept the order from several "SkyStrikers"), then in the situation with the raid of kamikaze drones "Harop" ("Harpy") on the position of RLO 36D6 and the launcher 5P85S, attached to the Armenian air defense missile system S-300PS near the settlement. Kahnut, we observe a diametrically opposite result.

Based on the video footage captured by the turret optoelectronic complexes (also perform the function of multispectral IR / TV seeker) kamikaze drones "Harop" at the terminal sections of the trajectories, it is easy to come to the final conclusion that being in standby mode (review of the airspace for the appearance of means of aerospace attack of the enemy), the 36D6 radar detector (ST-68U / 19Zh6) was never able to track and “tie the tracks” approaching the S-300PS battalion of two "Harop" with the further issuance of target designation to the 5N63S combat control point with a radar illumination and guidance 30N6E (up to the entrance of the first into the "dead zone" of the complex, which is 5 km and determines the minimum range for the use of missiles 5V55R).

Terminal section of the route of the UAV "Harop" before the defeat of RLO 36D6

This is evidenced by the fact that at the time of entry of one of the UAVs "Harop" into the "dead zone" of the S-300PS air defense missile system and the beginning of a dive on the 5P85S launcher, the latter continued to be in the stowed position, while in case of detection of attacking "Harops" the combat crew of the Armenian "three hundred" would immediately begin the process of capturing them for "precise auto-tracking" by means of the RPN 30N6E and the beginning of interception, which would be accompanied by bringing the PU 5P85S into a combat (vertical) position.

The following question arises: what is the reason for such a low efficiency of RLO 36D6 in work on such small targets as UAV IAI "Harop"? After all, it is well known that at one time the specialists of the Zaporozhye Design Bureau "Iskra" endowed an early modification of the 36D6 / ST-68U radar (letter "U", simplified) with the following technological options:

- firstly, a high-energy microwave klystron of the upper S-band of decimeter waves (with 4 frequency "steps" of operation), providing an average power of the transmitting path of the order of 350 kW, which contributed to increasing the detection range of targets with an image intensifier tube of 0,1 sq. m up to 175 km (when operating at an altitude of 10000 - 15000 m);

- secondly, a unique linear-parabolic (sector-cylindrical) antenna array with a vertically oriented linear module of emitters, changing the frequency parameters of which makes it possible to achieve lightning-fast variation of the elevation / lowering angles of 8 scanning beams in the elevation plane, as well as a fairly high noise immunity of the receiving path of the ST-68U radar against the background of aviation enemy of ordinary electronic warfare equipment (for example, AN / ALQ-99 suspended container radio countermeasures).

The answer to the above question is hidden in the modification of the 36D6 detection radar, which is in service with the Armenian air defense forces and attached to the S-300PT / PS air defense system. We are talking about an early version of the radar detector RLO - ST-68U, which (in contrast to the modernized radar 36D6M1-2) has a significantly smaller number of processed range samples, less sensitivity of the receiving path (against the background of artificial and natural interference), lower frequency selectivity of the primary device. processing of radar information and the presence of an analogue element base in the radio-electronic architecture. These shortcomings limit the minimum RCS of targets processed by ST-68U radars by a coefficient of at least 0,1 sq. m, while the effective reflective surface of the Israeli UAVs of the "Harop" family, apparently is about 0,05 square meters. m (due to the widespread use of composite materials and RPMs in the airframe design).

Meanwhile, in this case, it was possible to save the situation either by bringing the divisional radar for illumination and guidance of the 30N6E Armenian S-300PS into the sector view mode of the most missile-hazardous section of the eastern air direction (this "shooting" radar processes targets with an image intensifier of about 0,05 sq. M ), or by integrating into the radar architecture of the Armenian "three hundred" of the newest all-altitude detector (VVO) 96L6E, attached to the S-400 air defense system. Therefore, there are not so many reasons for jubilation in the Azerbaijani observer circles.

Comments

[Asad]

Only air defense specialists read VO! Comrades! Translate the article into Russian please!

[carstorm 11]

In simple terms, this means one thing - while one army was preparing for war for years, the other did nothing special, even with what it had. from drug preparation to modernization of their equipment. hence the results.

[Same lech]

I suppose there was a low tactical literacy of the Armenian air defense commanders who did not foresee such a variant of the Israeli Nagorno attack ... they are probably unfamiliar with the video from Syria where Israeli kamikaze drones also sneaked up and attacked the Syrian Armor ... the enemy is cunning and insidious and hits the weakest places ...

[Igor Rozhkov]

I would add the Syrian Shells that are not working. It is difficult to get close to a working Shell unnoticed, especially since it must work in the system (at least in a battery), and not alone

[Krasnodar]

I translate:
On the "missile-drone-dangerous" direction of the S-300, using the S-400 radar, he could shoot down Harop.

[Old tanker]

Exactly. In fact, an article from a multibukaff fits into one sentence.

[Grits]

Quote: Old Tankman

Exactly. In fact, an article from a multibukaff fits into one sentence.

Namely, the promoted S-300, without shooting down a single aircraft or missile in battle, was very simply destroyed by a simple small unmanned aerial vehicle.
This is how the decline of the glory of the S-300 begins.

[audigamma]

Sunset, of course, 42 years since the introduction into service. They didn't even think about drones then. But that the s-300 was not modernized, the complex itself is not to blame for this.

[chingachguc]

drones were used massively and extremely effectively back in 1982. There was a lot of time to modernize the existing air defense and develop tactics. Something has been done, for example, electronic warfare.

[audigamma]

And what sizes were the lights? I think there are many more barrage ammunition used by Azerbaijan.

[Victorio]

Quote: chingachguc

drones were used massively and extremely effectively back in 1982

===
enlighten where it was massively and effectively?

[chingachguc]

in the Lebanese war

[Victorio]

Quote: chingachguc

in the Lebanese war

===
then it is already somewhat and quite effective, and not used massively and extremely effectively back in 1982

[chingachguc]

okay, I agree with "enough"

[Letun]

Quote: Gritsa

unmanned

First, learn to write without mistakes. The analyte is deep ...
Although I'm sorry, of course, maybe you had any warrior without a cap? Well then yes, it is written right

[Grits]

Quote: Letun

First, learn to write without mistakes. The analyte is deep ...

Before engaging in a discussion, learn courtesy and good conversation manners.

[Kart]

"On a senka and a hat". Russian proverb.

[Letun]

Quote: Gritsa

Quote: Letun

First, learn to write without mistakes. The analyte is deep ...

Before engaging in a discussion, learn courtesy and good conversation manners.

Before getting into a topic in which you do not know a damn thing, it would be nice to prepare for it, or, otherwise, keep silent. Then they will communicate with you politely, and perhaps even with manners, "unmanned" you are our

[uranium]

For some reason, the S-300 of Azerbaijan is good at shooting down missiles. Maybe it's not about the S-300?

[meandr51]

Firstly, it is not a fact that the real S-300. Secondly, in the hands of specialists with proper separation in Khmeinim it works perfectly.

[Soho]

Namely, the promoted S-300, without shooting down a single aircraft or missile in battle, was very simply destroyed by a simple small unmanned aerial vehicle.

The bombing in the comments of some skakuas is not a reason to write off the technique. Logic, as always, does not work for pots. A small bullet kills a person. A small AT missile knocks out a tank. A small air-to-air missile shoots down the plane. So let's just write off all the weapons for scrap, and disperse the infantry to their homes. After all, the opinion of the balabol is so it's important for us

[Turist1996]

In terms of the volume of one sentence, Eugene is already almost aiming at "our everything" - Leo Tolstoy!

[carstorm 11]

discover. shoot down drones with 300 such yourself ...

[Cyril G ...]

Call it in your own words - it's crazy. However, the Jews somehow distinguished themselves by shooting the Patriot at the Outpost, and even missed

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Call it in your own words - it's crazy. However, the Jews somehow distinguished themselves by shooting the Patriot at the Outpost, and even missed

So the F-16 also tried to shoot it down - missed Then they learned to shoot down high-flying drones with Patriots, low-flying ones - with a helicopter)).

[Cyril G ...]

This suggests that not a single army today is seriously ready to fight when flocks of small drones engaged in reconnaissance and command control are used against them, or those striving will fall on your head with a pair of suspended RGDs, etc. We were able to organize the defense of Khmeimim from drones comparable in weight, dimensions and speed with birds. 27 RS and 53 small UAVs were declared defeated.

[Krasnodar]

Any army is a hierarchical parasitic structure that does not produce anything, only consumes the country's resources. The effectiveness of the army is learned exclusively during B / D, which is relatively rare. When the military is faced with something new, overlaps occur in 80% of cases. The Russians learned to work against homemade drones, the Israelis, having trained on Favorite's own originals, to fight reconnaissance UAVs of the Russian Federation, then Iran. To new threats for Russians and Jews from drones, it is not clear how the military of these countries will react.

[Sergey Sfiedu]

Azerbaijan exports oil, Armenia - only Armenians. Accordingly, the defense budget of Azerbaijan allows you to purchase all sorts of "goodies" such as shock UAVs, but the Armenian one does not. The Russian Federation, perhaps, would provide the Armenians with weapons on credit, but we ourselves do not have shock UAVs. But the Armenians bought (also on credit) as many as 4 pieces of Su-30, which so far have not shown themselves in any way.

[Krasnodar]

So the pilots have a minuscule flight there.

[Turist1996]

But: Armenia has a nuclear power plant, Azerbaijan does not. The oil will run out - so what?

[Turist1996]

By the way, there is one more factor for the fact that Azerbaijan will be "besieged" in an instant with a strong hound: precisely the presence of a nuclear power plant in Armenia. And "upset" will be all neighbors and not only them.

[Cowbra]

Well ... https://afirsov.livejournal.com/583970.html

We are looking - an aviation complex for countering attacking missiles "President" (components in bulk). The complex includes cameras that detect incoming missiles and a laser jamming complex that blinds the optical homing heads of missiles (such as all sorts of "stingers" and "mistrals"). Cheap and cheerful. We take it, turn it upside down, so that it looks not from the sky to the ground, but from the ground to the sky, and we get a complex for dazzling video cameras of missiles and small RPVs. And no consumables (such as missiles and shells for air defense systems), it works around the clock, the number of "stocked" enemy means of attack is not limited. As a bonus, all the newfangled anti-tank missiles - "Jevlins" and all sorts of "spikes" are also stuck together (I hope you haven't spent on them yet?). Moreover, one "President" can be used as a group protection kit, for example, for a platoon or even a company of tanks!

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: Cowbra

the number of "stockpiled" enemy means of attack is not limited

For some reason, the author believes that when illuminated by a laser, the video camera irreversibly breaks down.

[blackice]

Correction: if this army does not have its own electronic warfare group.
If there is, then all drones become a little unnecessary, because they can fall in the wrong place for the operator.

[TT62o]

They were shot down by the S-300 or S-400?

[Runway]

Smoothly "slide" to the "puff pie" air defense air defense 60-80 years (dshk-125th-75th - 200th, dshk like a PM in your pocket).

[Cyril G ...]

The DShK needs some sort of MSA then.

[Runway]

Sound detector zt-5 ... with DShK and other large animals to beat on a drone is not an option. But a multi-barrel in 7,62 caliber (three to six "points" per position), the crap with a propeller can really do it ...

[Oprichnik]

He will have enough rate of fire to adapt the GShG-7,62, and use the SLA from the 3U-23 Slingshot for aiming. Probably it will work out?

[Runway]

Yes, 6 calculations at the tops of the hexagram (the center of which is OD zrdn), excluding the near dead zone.
Tracer and bzt. For stationary objects, it can also work (the issue of detecting a non-motorized / gliding small-sized target is a challenge, only in the sector where the UAV is opened).
This will not work on the front end. Fumes / aerosols and engineering support of positions.

[Turist1996]

But in fact, the layered air defense was not invented from the bay-flounder: the S-300 is not for the fight against small kamikaze drones. Even if "Shilka" would have been placed in the guard at the nearest line - you look, and there would have been a different result.

[Kent0001]

Here, a quad Maxim is needed ... well, or Shilka for extreme ...

[Cyril G ...]

Not this way. Divisions of three hundred in general, it was necessary to cover zen.arta and air defense systems MD

[yehat2]

but it is interesting if there were a 23x4 or a tunguska or a carapace and radar from the s-400 in the protection of the complex, what would be the competent reaction of this air defense group to shoot down and preferably effectively, and not at any cost.
And the second question, is Thor capable of shooting down a group of attacking drones?

[Cyril G ...]

Thor? Yes. If there are enough missiles on the combat vehicle. By the way, the armor has already created an anti-drone SAM ..

if the complex was guarded by a 23x4 or a tunguska, or a shell and radar from the s-400, would have spotted the threat in time,

The organization of such a defense of the S-300 air defense system must be echeloned + in addition to having a small class radar capable of detecting targets with negligible EPR of the Garmoni type

[chingachguc]

GSh, like on an attack aircraft ...

[Kondratich]

or better S-500 or 600

[atalef]

Quote: ASAD

Only air defense specialists read VO! Comrades! Translate the article into Russian please!

Translate from Damantsevsky?

[Grandfather]

Quote: atalef

Quote: ASAD

Only air defense specialists read VO! Comrades! Translate the article into Russian please!

Translate from Damantsevsky?

even Damantsev himself cannot do this!

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: ASAD

Translate

Obsolete weapons, and even used with errors, naturally lost to new weapons, used competently.
But outdated weapons are called almost the same as our new ones, which made our weapons loudly anti-advertising.

[l7yzo]

Well, against drones that stand a spear and are printed on a 3D printer in hundreds in a battle formation + shock drones + noise drones + plus distraction wings = there will not be enough missiles from the air defense. Moreover, REL is effective on certain groups - but several generations fly in a combat formation, but on different principles?
I look like ordinary anti-aircraft guns in the future with explosive or magnetic filling, for the marks of survivors - by the way, for some reason, they still don't want to adopt this idea.

While some were preparing, others rested on their old laurels.

[Andrey sh]

So one S-300 rocket has several tens of thousands of fragments - it will sweep away a flock of drones at a time. The question of why the heck is to spend such missiles for such purposes - the system does not have the task of destroying drones as a priority. It's like trying to destroy a battleship from a grenade launcher ...

[military_cat]

Quote: Jacket in stock

But outdated weapons are called almost the same as our new ones, which made our weapons loudly anti-advertising.

It is not just "called almost the same", hosannas were sung to it in the same modes, and no one wrote it down in the outdated ones. It is not known what will happen to the new weapon when faced with reality - no one has pushed it yet.

[yehat2]

it is worth adding that the Armenians had decommissioned complexes from the Russian Federation, this draws a good line.

[Evil543]

Cannot be translated. Read it five times, intermittently. This is the master Damantsev.

[smershxnumx]

"ASAD (Nikolay): Only air defense specialists read QO! Comrades! Translate the article into Russian, please!"

This is Damantsev! Nobody has been able to "translate" it into Russian yet!

[kit88]

Quote: ASAD

Only air defense specialists read VO! Comrades! Translate the article into Russian please!

Dear Nikolay, registered on the site https://topwar.ru © 2010-2020 "VOENNOE OZRENIE" Media registration certificate EL No. FS77-76970, issued on 11.10.2019 by the Federal Service for Supervision of Communications, Information Technology and Mass Media (Roskomnadzor), with the nickname ASAD!
Translation, i.e. activities on the interpretation of the meaning of the text in one language (the original language [IL]) and the creation of a new, equivalent text in another language (translating language [TL]), in relation to this article cannot be carried out due to the lack of certified specialists.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: kit88

the activity on the interpretation of the meaning of the text in one language (the original language [IL]) and the creation of a new, equivalent text in another language (the translating language [TL]), in relation to this article, cannot be carried out due to the lack of certified specialists.

Carramba!

[Kart]

It looks like the author himself answered ...

[iouris]

Translation: all air defense systems are relatively easy to destroy by drones.

[The leader of the Redskins]

As I understand it, the article is an attempt to sweeten the bitter pill?
There is a fact of defeat. And any attempts to change history, you know, it's too late to drink "borjomi" ...
And, whatever one may say, the difference in the cost of a kamikaze drone and lost samples is very, very significant.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

very, very significant.

In short, we got it ...

[Grandfather]

Quote: Uncle Lee

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

very, very significant.

In short, we got it ...

extinguished ...

[KVIRTU]

Yes, any locator in a stationary position is doomed. A matter of time and choice of means. Not a UAV so DRG. Therefore, the 35D6 KamAZ kit with remote equipment is installed at 300 m.

[carstorm 11]

nothing like this. In 2015, Russia handed over the remaining operational S-300PT air defense systems to Armenia. Before that, elements of anti-aircraft systems underwent refurbishment and "minor" modernization, which was mainly reduced to equipping with modern means of communication and combat control. Also, in the factory, measures were taken to extend the resource of anti-aircraft missiles. Part of the S-300PS air defense systems removed from service in Russia was transferred to the CSTO allies. Anti-aircraft missile systems of this type are available in Armenia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. Two complexes transferred to Armenia were overhauled in 2010 at Russian enterprises. Four S-300PS divisions were delivered to Belarus in 2005. More importantly, these systems are not covered by others for their defense. hence the loss. well it's like a tank in a city - no infantry just a target

[Bongo]

Quote: carstorm 11

In 2015, Russia handed over the remaining operational S-300PT air defense systems to Armenia. Before that, elements of anti-aircraft systems underwent refurbishment and "minor" modernization, which was mainly reduced to equipping with modern means of communication and combat control. Also in the factory, measures were taken to extend the resource of anti-aircraft missiles. Part of the S-300PS air defense systems removed from service in Russia was transferred to the CSTO allies. Anti-aircraft missile systems of this type are available in Armenia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. Two complexes transferred to Armenia were overhauled in 2010 at Russian enterprises. Four S-300PS divisions were delivered to Belarus in 2005.

It's funny when you are quoted ... but it would be possible to give a link to the source.

[carstorm 11]

yes, the theses are easier to pull out the ones you need at the moment)

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: carstorm 11

More importantly, these systems are not covered by others for their defense. hence the loss. well it's like a tank in a city - no infantry just a target

This is the main thing in this case.

[Kart]

This is for those who understand.
The rest will be hysterical about the "failure of Russian weapons."
So some people want to bite that any slightest reason is turned into a hysteria.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

As I understand it, the article is an attempt to sweeten the bitter pill?

The article is an attempt to get a bigger fee out of nothing.
A lot of words. Very, very many words, 90% of which are generally superfluous here.

[Grandfather]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

As I understand it, the article is an attempt to sweeten the bitter pill?

The article is an attempt to get a bigger fee out of nothing.
A lot of words. Very, very many words, 90% of which are generally superfluous here.

It would be fun if you corrected Damantsev and produced the edited article three-quarters shorter! Let him earn honestly!

[Doctor Evil]

Quote: Dead Day

Quote: Jacket in stock

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

As I understand it, the article is an attempt to sweeten the bitter pill?

The article is an attempt to get a bigger fee out of nothing.
A lot of words. Very, very many words, 90% of which are generally superfluous here.

It would be fun if you corrected Damantsev and produced the edited article three-quarters shorter! Let him earn honestly!

Let me try. Since the author seems to me to be a modern analogue of Nikifor Lapis, then his Gavriliad is corresponding:
"Gavrila (S-300) lived in a mountainous land,
Harop broke Gavrila ... "

[Professor]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

As I understand it, the article is an attempt to sweeten the bitter pill?

The article is an attempt to get a bigger fee out of nothing.
A lot of words. Very, very many words, 90% of which are generally superfluous here.

You gave an accurate description. Becoming this author, I unmistakably recognize by name. I bypass the articles themselves, but I read the comments with pleasure.

[smershxnumx]

Yes, such a set of "many bukaff" in the title of the article would not be recognized, I would be ashamed ... I also do not read articles, but here are the comments ..... Comments are just lovely sight!

[CSKA]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

And, whatever one may say, the difference in the cost of a kamikaze drone and lost samples is very, very significant.

It is clear that an air defense radar will cost more than an air-to-surface missile or a drone.

[Grits]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

There is a fact of defeat. And any attempts to change history, you know, it's too late to drink "borjomi"

Quite right. No excuses like "if, if only, if we would," and the use of sophisticated specific words and technical terms, together with beautiful abbreviations and brands (models / types), do not refute the main thing - the Israeli drone easily got rid of the vaunted mighty Russian S-300. This is exactly how it will now spread throughout the world.

[chingachguc]

it's good that it happened now with the Armenians, and not later with us. Hopefully our tails will tighten and start working

[Andrey sh]

What pill? That the Armenians did not do the echeloned air defense? Decimeter systems for small-sized drones "don't work" - either millimeter or centimeter ones. In addition, a comparison of an outdated station and a new drone. Likewise, none of the armored personnel carriers in the world can withstand the impact of a tank shell. And not a single bulletproof vest could take a burst from a large-caliber machine gun.

[tlauicol]

baptism of fire of the S-300, his mother ... This drone war will have to teach us a lot

[Grandfather]

Quote: Tlauicol

baptism of fire of the S-300, his mother ... This drone war will have to teach us a lot

who would teach the Armenians ...

[chingachguc]

Did anyone teach the Azeris?

[mihail_mihail0620]

Quote: Tlauicol

baptism of fire of the S-300, his mother ... This drone war will have to teach us a lot

The drone war has been going on since 1982, but some people don't want to learn.

[Shahno]

Then all the same, and 'Harop' and the destroyed complex, this is far from the last word in the modern models of military equipment already adopted and undergoing tests. This applies to both the UAV and the SAM.

[Mavrikiy]

Therefore, there are not so many reasons for jubilation in the Azerbaijani observer circles.

There are enough reasons. The very fact of "victory" is important for them. Yes, and we have reasons to grieve from the received "advertising". The technical details are good, but the facts ...

[rotmistr60]

there are not so many reasons for jubilation in Azerbaijani observer circles

There may not be many reasons for jubilation, but the goal was achieved - the air defense system was destroyed. In recent days, the Armenian army has shown that it was not preparing for a war with the enemy armed with modern weapons, but rested on the laurels of victories 20 years ago. It is regrettable because forming a modern army is much more difficult than making a revolution in the squares.

[Deck]

forming a modern army is much more difficult than making a revolution in the squares.

And it's even more difficult than showing cartoons on TV and arranging colorful parades from "no analogs"

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: rotmistr60

that she did not prepare for a war with the enemy armed with modern weapons, but rested on the laurels of victories 20 years ago.

The bell in the 16th was ...

[atalef]

The answer to the above question is hidden in the modification of the 36D6 detection radar, which is in service with the Armenian air defense forces and attached to the S-300PT / PS air defense system. We are talking about an early version of the radar detector RLO - ST-68U, which (unlike the modernized radar 36D6M1-2) has a significantly smaller number of processed range samples, less sensitivity of the receiving path (against the background of artificial and natural interference), lower frequency selectivity of the primary device. processing of radar information and the presence of an analogue element base in the radio-electronic architecture. These shortcomings limit the minimum RCS of targets processed by ST-68U radars by a coefficient of at least 0,1 sq. m, while the effective reflective surface of the Israeli UAVs of the "Harop" family, apparently is about 0,05 square meters. m

shorter vtyuhali has no analogue in the world bullshit.
although of course, if the enemy sent only objects suitable for its performance characteristics into the observation zone of this radar, then of course.
And so, what Azerbaijanis are byaks, they are not fighting correctly.

[Krasnodar]

Your Israeli sarcasm is premature. It is clearly said:

bring the 30N6E divisional radar for illumination and guidance of the Armenian S-300PS into the sector view mode of the most missile-hazardous section of the eastern air direction (this "shooting" radar processes targets with an image intensifier of the order of 0,05 sq. m), or integrate it into the radar architecture of the Armenian "96" an all-altitude detector (VVO) 6L400E attached to the S-XNUMX air defense system.

Business then

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: atalef

shorter vtyuhali has no analogue in the world bullshit.

Like you, the Patriot missed a non-miniature Outpost. The S-300 air defense system should be covered by the MZA and the MD air defense system. This is an Axiom.

[Beringovsky]

Quote: Cyril G ...

The S-300 air defense system should be covered by the MZA and the MD air defense system. This is an Axiom.

This is complete nonsense ...
So the enemy will give you the opportunity to create an "echeloned" air defense system in war conditions, and even along the entire front. Well, wait ...
Yes, air defense means simply will not be enough to close everything.

[your1970]

Quote: Beringovsky

So the enemy will give you the opportunity to create an "echeloned" air defense system in war conditions, and even along the entire front. Well, wait ...
Yes, air defense means simply will not be enough to close everything.

That is why - in case of war, we will hit nuclear weapons at ALL opponents at once. And this is known almost from the first day of the existence of nuclear weapons ...

[Beringovsky]

Quote: your1970

That is why - in case of war, we will hit nuclear weapons at ALL opponents at once.

Well thanks, now I'm calm. By the way, why then do we need Armata, Kurgan, Coalition, Su57, Hunter and other shnyaga? Waste ... we can do without it
Kaak zhahnem at once and all to dust!
But seriously? If, for example, the damned adversaries strike at our base with a UAV? Limited such a blow, provocative. Well, like the Su24 shot down by the Turks? Again, hitting the tomatoes again? Or let's start the 3rd World War?

[your1970]

1) As it turned out, a blow to tomatoes foot- very painful ...
2) the non-echeloned air defense system is meaningless, in principle ... It will be smashed in parts - which is what is happening in Armenia
3) and if, for example, China crosses our border in small groups (two or three million - five in a group) - will 1000 Armat or 100 SU-57 save us ??
It all depends on level adversaries who

Quote: Beringovsky

strike our base with a UAV

- and will it be a war or a provocation?

[chingachguc]

in this case, you can proudly blur into a puddle of fat, knowing that with an American it will be the same))

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Beringovsky

So the enemy will give you the opportunity to create an "echeloned" air defense system in war conditions, and even along the entire front. Well, wait ...

And this is the art of war: to do it in spite of the enemy.
Because there is no point in creating an unsecured air defense system - this is a vain transfer of personnel and equipment to create a training ground for the enemy.

In addition, a non-military air defense system (and the S-300PS is the air defense of the country, not the ground) must be created before the war.

[Beringovsky]

If there are too few air defense weapons (and they will be knocked out in combat), then no amount of art will help close all the holes. Besides, why do you think that the future war will be like the Second World War? Perhaps the units will have to operate in a wide and deep theater of operations, in isolation from each other. In this case, one can not dream of any echeloned air defense. But drones are very mobile, they are easy to transfer and concentrate on a separate direction.
I think there should be a means of dealing with such drones on the battlefield, light, mobile and unobtrusive.

In addition, a non-military air defense system (and the S-300PS is the air defense of the country, not the ground) must be created before the war.

Damn, I am trying to convey this idea to the consciousness of the hurray of patriots. It was before the war that it had to be created. And now, in Karabakh, test it in real war conditions.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Beringovsky

If air defense systems are too few (and they will be knocked out in combat), then no amount of art will help close all the holes.

In this case, you have to choose the most important holes. Because without mutual cover and overlapping, there is no sense in air defense. Lonely divisions have an extremely low combat value and are only a means of complacency for commanders. This is about how to break a motorized rifle battalion with all its heavy and group battalions into separate groups and arrange them separately, cutting separate defense areas for the calculations of AGS, ATGM, mortars, crews of combat vehicles and staff.

Quote: Beringovsky

Perhaps the units will have to operate in a wide and deep theater of operations, in isolation from each other.

At the same time, tactical groups always receive reinforcement from the regiment-division. That is, they may even have "Torah" with "Buks".

[your1970]

Quote: Beringovsky

I think there must be a means of dealing with such drones on the battlefield, lightweight, mobile and discreet.

I absolutely agree with you !!!!
I will add - and so that they can still destroy tanks, planes and satellites enemy ... and was carried by one infantryman ... in his pocket .... I got such a gravitapa, slamming it on the ground, and all enemy aircraft within a radius of a thousand kilometers fell .. Well, satellites at the same time ... Yeah ...

The truth is that no one has even come close to this yet.

[Beringovsky]

Gravity? And what, this is ku!
Crimson pants for this gentleman!

Although for tanks and so on. armored vehicles, aircraft and satellites have already invented a lot of things. So you are late with the offer.

[Andrey sh]

You just need to LITERALLY set up and create an enemy drone detection system. Layered in fact with junk. The funny thing is that you don't need a superfood product for this. Its flight altitude is up to 3 km, the speed is 185 km / h, and the engine is piston. Those. a low-speed, not very quiet and low-flying device, for the defeat of which a few people with banal binoculars and MANPADS, a communication system and anti-aircraft guns near the object of protection are ENOUGH. It's clear that if you're lucky. And in order to always be lucky, then supplement your units on the front line with fighters with MANPADS (in the right amount, preferably more), millimeter-wave radar, an ancient SOUND direction finder, a communication system in units and in a protected area (like they spotted and transmitted data even though army soldiers in the trenches locals), and all this should be placed in many places, overlapping dead zones. Well, also organize shelters so that the drone does not detect them earlier. I don’t write about the electronic warfare systems and the Pantsiri - this cannot be done on my knees.

[abc_alex]

Quote: Beringovsky

Quote: Cyril G ...

The S-300 air defense system should be covered by the MZA and the MD air defense system. This is an Axiom.

This is complete nonsense ...
So the enemy will give you the opportunity to create an "echeloned" air defense system in war conditions, and even along the entire front. Well, wait ...
Yes, air defense means simply will not be enough to close everything.

As they usually write here - learn the materiel. Before broadcasting. Covering "large" air defense systems on the battlefield is MANDATORY. No one in their right mind would ever deploy an S-300 without cover. It is for this cover that "Carapace" is designed. Its task is to cover the battalions and batteries of air defense missile systems with the index "P". Air defense systems with the index "B" are covered by army systems, such as Tor and Tunguska.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Like you, the Patriot missed a non-miniature Outpost. The S-300 air defense system should be covered by the MZA and the MD air defense system. This is an Axiom.

The most offensive thing is that the Outpost is native.

[albert]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

The most offensive thing is that the Outpost is native

I just wanted to look home.

[mihail_mihail0620]

Rumor has it that a 14-year-old girl was wounded in the leg by a Patriot missile fragment in a kibbutz? They also say that not only the air defense but also the air force screwed up.

[Grits]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

The most offensive thing is that the Outpost is native.

Nifiga he is not native to you - there the nameplate is already different.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

The most offensive thing is that the Outpost is native.

And what's so offensive? You sell them yourself, you knock them down - and then you sell new ones to replace the knocked ones. Such a profitable deal.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Alexey RA

Quote: Aron Zaavi

The most offensive thing is that the Outpost is native.

And what's so offensive? You sell them yourself, you knock them down - and then you sell new ones to replace the knocked ones. Such a profitable deal.

[mihail_mihail0620]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Such a profitable deal.

Quote: Aron Zaavi

With such a business, you can go broke, two Patriot missiles + air-to-air missile and the Outpost flew away.
I don't know how true it is, but Google says that the price of one Patriot missile = 3,4 million dollars.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: mihail_mihail0620

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Such a profitable deal.

Quote: Aron Zaavi

With such a business, you can go broke, two Patriot missiles + air-to-air missile and the Outpost flew away.
I don't know how true it is, but Google says that the price of one Patriot missile = 3,4 million dollars.

This old 90s still had to be shot. But the conclusions were made and the system for cutting off targets on the radars was somewhat improved. Subsequently, Patriot did shoot down the UAV.

[mihail_mihail0620]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

The Patriot did shoot down the UAV.

It is possible to destroy the Osa-AKM air defense missile system with a drone only if the Osa air defense missile system is consumed. In 1986, the Osa air defense missile system was shot down by rockets fired from an installation similar to Katyusha, the length of the projectile, presumably 1,5 meters, the speed exceeds sound. A drone with a wingspan of 3 meters and a speed of about 200 km / h. not a problem.
Armor work in Syria, Russian base.

[Glory Ponomarev]

This is a video from the game :) And the American volcano shoots, not the shell)

[mihail_mihail0620]

Quote: Slava Ponomarev

This is a video from the game :) And the American volcano shoots, not the shell)

I agree, I screwed up.

[Mikhail m]

I hope that the lesson will be useful and reflected in the instructions. And sprinkle ashes on your head and talk about what would have happened if ... not our method.

[Eug]

Interestingly, the inclusion of a high-energy channel in the radar station to suppress the detected inconspicuous small-sized drones looks absolutely fantastic? Found it - formed a high-energy pulse - and sent it to the addressee .. as for me, it would greatly increase the effectiveness of the fight against the cheapest drones.

[atalef]

Quote: Eug

formed a high-energy impulse - and sent it to the addressee .. as for me, this would greatly increase the effectiveness of the fight against the cheapest drones.

and shot down the s-300?
how much does the s-300 rocket cost?

[Eug]

Shoot down not with a rocket, but with a high-energy pulse. Just in order not to waste expensive missiles.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Eug

Shoot down not with a rocket, but with a high-energy pulse. Just in order not to waste expensive missiles.

the generator will not pull the radiation of such power, and the S-300 radar is not intended for such a thing, but the ZGRLS can do this.

[Eug]

What is not intended is understandable, it was created much earlier. But to modernize so that it is capable, and to lay this ability in new ones ...

[Beringovsky]

Well, Russia does not have the means to combat drones, what to do. Didn't think, you know.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Beringovsky

Russia has no means of countering drones

Russia has, Armenia does not have it in Karabakh.

[Beringovsky]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Russia has, Armenia does not have it in Karabakh.

"We have such devices, but we will not tell you about them!"

Well, why then have our ally in the CSTO, Armenia doesn't have them?

[bk316]

Well, why then does our ally in the CSTO, Armenia, have none?

This is certainly a mega argument.
We also have a strategic nuclear forces (well, you probably don’t believe in this either ) so that we could end this war fundamentally providing Armenia with a dozen ICBMs, or at worst a hundred tactical special ammunition.
But why don't we do it?
If you think at least from time to time, answer this question yourself, by the way, there won't be so many minuses.

[abc_alex]

Quote: Beringovsky

Well, why then does our ally in the CSTO, Armenia, have none?

Because it independent a state, and not a part of the Southern District of the RF Armed Forces. What the Armenians thought it necessary to buy, they have.

[Andrey sh]

Come on - such devices go astray from ancient MANPADS. There are no competent commanders or they save on everything ...

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Beringovsky

Well, Russia does not have the means to combat drones, what to do. Didn't think, you know.

It's hard for you to be uneducated. What has Russia to do with it? We have our own reconnaissance UAVs counting thousands already, and in Khimki they packed a bunch of miniature UAVs

[Beringovsky]

Quote: Cyril G ...

... in Khimki they packed a bunch of miniature UAVs

Caps for battle!
Drones wait, two!

Quote: Cyril G ...

... We have our own reconnaissance UAV account for thousands already ...

It's hard with hurray patriots ... They are about Thomas, they are about Eremu. Well, what does the "reconnaissance UAV" have to do with it, if we are talking about means of fighting them ?!

Quote: Cyril G ...

What does Russia have to do with it?

Againnothing at all"?! Well then, don't be surprised that all our" allies "run away from us.

Quote: Cyril G ...

It's hard for you to be uneducated.

So slam all the critics with your education, what's the problem?
So far, no one has clearly answered the question whether Russia has effective means of combating UAVs. Only they will pass on the sly and that's it.
So they are simply no.

[Beringovsky]

Cyril G ...
Education you and rushing out of all the cracks.

No, this is already arrogance ...
"dИweiss, panzЫpb, in not addiction, rotten vhlam..."
Russian pull up, educated, before you criticize

Sleep well, dear Azerbaijani-Ukrainian.

I’m just Russian and live in Russia. But who are you, "patriot" and where are you from?
"... Jews, Israelis, Turks, Iranian ..." - just like that how do you write, with a capital letter, write those who have long lived in Anglo-Saxon countries. It is so accepted there.
Burn mister ... yeess

[Beringovsky]

Quote: Cyril G ...

You didn't bother to clarify what kind of drones we are talking about.
I explain, FIRST OF ALL, not for you but for those who want to understand the question.

Actually, we are talking here about the events in Karabakh. Why did you post "microdrones" on batteries and the Global Hawk here ?!
Explain.
And in Wikipedia everything can be done without your help ...

Quote: Cyril G ...

I will not be surprised if, as a result of this war, Armenia asks for NATO membership, following Georgia.

This is good. The sooner NATO will simply creep rotten vhlam with such members.

Yes, yes, it will creep and fall apart, yeah. You forgot to add - the dollar will collapse, America will disintegrate, blacks will rise, all gays ..., after which Yellowstone will explode and the Arabs will seize Berlin. This is how it will be.
This is a fiasco, bro ...
But seriously, in this case we will get a continuous southern flank of NATO, with access to Central Asia. And the associate members of the EU - Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan. And NATO bases. And gas pipelines to the EU from Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan through the Caspian and the Caucasus. Then our streams cried. So, Strategist?

[MKPU-115]

Quote: Beringovsky

Quote: Cyril G ...

... in Khimki they packed a bunch of miniature UAVs

Caps for battle!
Drones wait, two!

Quote: Cyril G ...

... We have our own reconnaissance UAV account for thousands already ...

It's hard with hurray patriots ... They are about Thomas, they are about Eremu. Well, what does the "reconnaissance UAV" have to do with it, if we are talking about means of fighting them ?!

Quote: Cyril G ...

What does Russia have to do with it?

Againnothing at all"?! Well then, don't be surprised that all our" allies "run away from us.

Quote: Cyril G ...

It's hard for you to be uneducated.

So slam all the critics with your education, what's the problem?
So far, no one has clearly answered the question whether Russia has effective means of combating UAVs. Only they will pass on the sly and that's it.
So they are simply no.

I already have three bans, I would answer you, in Russian for people like you ... well, you understand

[abc_alex]

Quote: Beringovsky

So far, no one has clearly answered the question whether Russia has effective means of combating UAVs.

There is. All "small" air defense systems and air defense systems of modern modifications are designed to defeat small targets. Not just UAVs, but small targets in general. The fact that you do not know about something does not mean that it does not exist. In Khmeinim, Thor and Pantsir quite reliably shoot small drones, including artisanal ones, in which there is almost no metal at all.

[Yaik Cossack]

Only civilian crafts of local gardens are shot back after the direction finding of the communication channel. Not a single Israeli and Turkish professional drones in Khmeimim were shot down. They don't actually fly

[abc_alex]

Quote: Yaitsky Cossack

They do not actually fly

Therefore, they are not shot down. Don't you find it extremely strange to demand the shooting down of something that does not fly? I assure you, if an aircraft is in a concrete bunker, it will not be afraid of any missiles at all. Well, perhaps it will detonate its warhead. :)

Quote: Yaitsky Cossack

Only civilian crafts of local gardens are shot

Yeah, which are 90% made of wood and plastic. That is, radio-transparent.

But I can assure you, the Israeli "professional" shot down too. Not in Syria, however, but in South Ossetia. The Tungusok network with external radars has brought the Georgian UAV fleet to zero.

[Avior]

A radar beam for guidance or target illumination is such a channel, it has the minimum possible beam angles.
To be honest, I haven't heard of drones being shot down.
Detection radars have a much larger beam size, which means that the power at a specific point is less.

[Jacket in stock]

Interestingly, the inclusion of a high-energy channel in the radar station to suppress the detected inconspicuous small-sized drones looks absolutely fantastic?

No, not fiction, quite an option for an emergency.
The article is just about the fact that the radar of the Armenian three hundred was ancient-ancient without any modernization and could not even just detect the drones .. And you are talking about a high-energy channel.

[Eug]

Well, I'm not talking about a specific case, but about possible means of dealing with cheap drones.

[Andrey sh]

Yes, he shouldn't detect them - the device is 2,5 meters and the speed is 185 km / h. The S-300 was not developed for such aircraft. Where was the cover?

[Ryaruav]

interesting, and in the Russian army, what modifications are in service?

[DominickS]

In and VM. There is also F - "Fort" for the fleet.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: DominickS

B and VM

The S-300P, which the article is about, and the S-300V are completely different systems, they have only a common name.
Why did they do this, I don't know, apparently, so that the enemies would not guess.
But due to similar names, the failure of the ancient S300P now makes anti-advertising to all complexes.

[Krasnodar]

The decision to purchase weapons is made on the recommendation of experts, and not according to news pictures

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Krasnodar

The decision to purchase weapons is made on the recommendation of specialists

Yes Yes.
But decisions are not made by experts. And often they have a "humanitarian" diploma, and even that is bought.
Even if here, VO readers do not understand the difference between С300П and С300В, then what to expect from the director of a furniture store.

[Krasnodar]

But he does it on the recommendation of the air defense-shnik

[MKPU-115]

Quote: Krasnodar

The decision to purchase weapons is made on the recommendation of experts, and not according to news pictures

We are now waiting for the Israeli "Harpies" to destroy the Syrian S-300, the tests on the Papuans "Harpy" were successful, now we need to work on the next ones. Not in the know, whose operators were probably yours?

[Krasnodar]

Azerbaijani - their school of operators has been functioning for about 10 years. The S-300 in Syria does not interfere with Israel yet. Heil Avia has not yet been used on aircraft. Now, if they shoot, then everything can be

[MKPU-115]

Quote: Krasnodar

Azerbaijani - their school of operators has been functioning for about 10 years. The S-300 in Syria does not interfere with Israel yet. Heil Avia has not yet been used on aircraft. Now, if they shoot, then everything can be

Well, I think ours should have taken countermeasures, including to Syria, after the Ukrainians sold the 36D6M1-2 radar to the United States. There, obviously Israeli and American partners worked closely with him, at the exit of the "Harpy", which is sharpened on this radar.
The tests were successful, congratulations.
When are the next ones?

[Krasnodar]

Have already been. Didn't you know?

[MKPU-115]

Quote: Krasnodar

Have already been. Didn't you know?

Against the S-300, I didn't know, shine. Where and when was he struck?
"Shell C1" of the 1st modification in the stowed position was destroyed, the second seemed to be firing back, but maybe a cartoon.

[Krasnodar]

Virtually
In the "training start" mode.
How do I know what the Israelis want to do - I haven't been there for 4 years, I finished my reservist service 9 years ago, etc. I can assume that, if necessary, they will demolish any air defense system - and with different drones and missiles from the ground, they will simply overload the air defense system and, at most, finish it off with planes. Without effective fighter aircraft and AWACS aircraft, the ground-based air defense system, the most advanced, is a target, and this has become clear since 1982

[MKPU-115]

Quote: Krasnodar

I can assume that, if necessary, they will demolish any air defense system - and with different drones and missiles from the ground, they will simply overload the air defense system and, at most, finish it off with planes.

anyway? Is the USA or Russia weak?

[Krasnodar]

If necessary, focal - easily
The problem is that then Israel will run out of missiles faster than Sasha's planes, and the Russians won't even answer themselves - it's just that the IRGC, Hezbollah and Hamas will have Tornadoes with Iskanders in large numbers, which they will do business on Israeli military bases and residential buildings. I'm not even talking about any embargo, sanctions, etc.

[MKPU-115]

Quote: Krasnodar

The problem is that then Israel will run out of missiles faster,

I think that the United States or Russia will not understand such a joke of Israeli humor and will immediately destroy it, WITHOUT LEAVING HOME, at least: home airfields with carriers and infrastructure (control points, fuel depots, ammunition), well, for one thing, where it is all produced ...

Quote: Krasnodar

focal - easily

I will clarify - only among the Papuans, for the reason see above.

[Krasnodar]

Once again - are you talking about Israel's ability to do this? Will be able. Without leaving home without the SBS, the Americans will be able to do what you mentioned by raising all their aviation and the Navy in the region, while also incurring losses - they are not critical for them. Russia - will let Calibers from the Caspian Sea and even strike with "long-range ships", having suffered losses in the fleet located in the Mediterranean and in the future military presence in the Middle East. Therefore, as a response to the modern Russian Federation, the option I mentioned in the previous post is preferable

[MKPU-115]

What can I say. You have no strategic thinking, you are a tactician, you think like a reservist. This is not bad, but the battalion level is the maximum, with elements of sabotage operations to limit the depth.

[Krasnodar]

A large-scale sabotage operation on a tiny area of ​​such a dense development against well-controlled, protected from the threat of constant hostile actions of important military facilities is extremely difficult)). You have a poor idea of ​​Israeli realities - it's easier to jerk something in the vicinity of Cheyenne Mountain than in the Negev Desert or in the Galilee
In short, everything in Israel is neglected.

[MKPU-115]

I think, but this is purely hypothetical, do not think anything bad, they will leave Israel without water, at the same time, and electricity, so that desalination plants and wells would be blown away. Technically, it's not hard to do.

[Krasnodar]

It recovers very quickly - like the runways of airfields, etc. etc. But a blow with modern weapons, impossible or difficult to intercept on a dense residential area - this is very serious.

[MKPU-115]

Quote: Krasnodar

It recovers very quickly

Radioactive contamination of the Kinneret Lake with groundwater Fight, duck for real
God forbid, of course, who will keep the balance in the region and restrain the different beards

[Krasnodar]

No, well, that's already ....

[A. Privalov]

Quote: MKPU-115

I think, but this is purely hypothetical, do not think anything bad, they will leave Israel without water, at the same time, and electricity, so that desalination plants and wells would be blown away. Technically, it's not hard to do.

You are not aware of our realities. Each and every desalination plant uses its own energy sources. These are powerful electric generators driven by twin engines from Boeing 737 aircraft. They are located in tightly soundproofed capital hangars. Powerful emergency sources of electricity scattered throughout the country are arranged according to the same principle. Some of them are underground, some in the desert, and one, an experimental one, was hidden under water for emergency supply of a city with a population of 150 thousand people.
You see, we have nowhere to retreat, we do not have the Urals, where the population and industrial enterprises can be evacuated. For this reason, based on 70 years of experience, a set of measures has been developed for the country's survival in difficult and emergency conditions.

[MKPU-115]

Quote: A. Privalov

a set of measures has been developed for the country's survival in difficult and emergency conditions.

Do you need it - to survive underground?

Quote: A. Privalov

we have nowhere to retreat, we have no Urals

That's what we are talking about, that in a real war, the problem of the survival of small states in terms of area and population density is very acute. For example, we have 10 people per 1 sq. Km., And in Israel in cities there are 10-20 thousand people per 1 sq. Km.
From the latest news:
"In Germany, secret military exercises of the Bundeswehr and NATO took place. The military was working out the scenario of the beginning of an atomic war. As Bild writes, the maneuvers were called" Persistent Afternoon ", they took place at an airbase in North Rhine - Westphalia."
https://www.bfm.ru/news/455624?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop

[A. Privalov]

Quote: MKPU-115

Do you need it - to survive underground?

Today, Israel has no real opponents in the BV, and there are fewer real enemies. We have been living in peace with Jordan for 26 years, with Egypt for 42 years. Just the other day, peace treaties were concluded with the UAE and Bahrain, and direct negotiations are underway with a number of moderate Arab states.

We have learned a lot. Including very seriously confronting those who wish to send us underground.

[MKPU-115]

Quote: A. Privalov

Including very seriously confronting those who wish to send us underground.

Iran.

[A. Privalov]

Quote: MKPU-115

Iran.

Well, what about Iran?
Yes, be realistic!
Without territorial, material and economic claims to Israel, with its own economy destroyed to hell, with a population already driven to extreme amazement by inflation of almost 60% and the rial exchange rate exceeding 300 with the official 000. They cannot reach us, they cannot reach us. , and not even swim. Maximum, they shoot something. When, for the last time, did you hear that some state shot something differently and achieved something for itself?
For the time being, they are setting Hezbollah on us. So what? Nasrallah has been hiding secretly in bunkers for almost 15 years, he has not slept in one place for two nights. Lebanon has already been brought to complete insanity ...

About 40 years ago, Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi was in excellent relations with Israel. There was a serious multi-million dollar trade, dry cargo ships went from Iran to Eilat on regular flights. The large Eilat-Ashkelon oil pipeline was built by Israel together with Iran, and its main purpose was to transport Iranian oil to Europe through the Mediterranean Sea. Tankers leaving the Persian Gulf skirted the Arabian Peninsula and arrived in Eilat, from where Iranian oil was piped to Ashkelon and further to Europe.

The 1979 Islamic revolution toppled the Shah, who was forced to leave the country and died in exile in Cairo the following year. In the wake of the reaction against the reforms of the last shahs, Islamic fundamentalists came to power, led by Ayatollah Khomeini.
Since then, they have been dogging. Well, so be it ...

[MKPU-115]

Quote: A. Privalov

When, for the last time, did you hear that some state shot something differently and achieved something for itself?

Let me remind you that quite recently, the Iranian military brought the nasty US Marines to their knees - in the most literal sense.

[A. Privalov]

Quote: MKPU-115

Quote: A. Privalov

When, for the last time, did you hear that some state shot something differently and achieved something for itself?

Let me remind you that quite recently, the Iranian military brought the nasty US Marines to their knees - in the most literal sense.

I don't know what the Marines were eating there, but what does this have to do with peace between Arab countries and Israel?

[Shahno]

Well yes. And there is. Almost any air defense system existing in our region can destroy our UAVs. But the political overload is too great.
As well as on the Russian Defense Ministry there is a lot of pressure from certain structures, which practically "swore on the Torah" not to touch the Israelis. Why this happened, I do not know.

[Krasnodar]

Conspiracy of Chabad Lubavich Lubyanka against Belz Hasidim from Frunzenskaya Embankment. There is a struggle for the division of New Khazaria between two clans of bearers of the misanthropic ideology of Trotskyism-Zionism, the winner of which will get power over the border of Armenia with Turkey - a natural ally of world Jewry in the matter of eating Doner on the bones of Iranian fighters for the freedom of Al-Quds from the Christ-sellers who betrayed the ideals of the Islamic Revolution of 1979 for the sake of manufics from Azerbaijan!

[Bongo]

Quote: Jacket in stock

But due to similar names, the failure of the ancient S300P now makes anti-advertising to all complexes.

Sorry, but the S-400 was originally called C-300PM3... Before making such claims, it would be nice to study the material part. As part of the S-300P SAM family: S-300PT / PT-1, S-300PS, S-300PM / PM2.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Bongo

Sorry, but the S-400 was originally called the S-300PM3.

Well, well done for renaming. Apparently among the "effective" managers, there was still a small, small competent marketer.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Why did they do this, I don't know, apparently, so that the enemies would not guess.

Well, why ...

The creation of an anti-aircraft missile system, intended to replace the S-75 air defense system, began in the mid-60s, almost simultaneously with work on the creation in the United States of the SAM-D air defense system (the prototype of the Patriot system). At the initiative of the command of the country's air defense forces and KB-1 of the Ministry of Radio Industry, the development of a unified anti-aircraft anti-aircraft missile system S-500U with the far border of the target engagement zone of about 100 km was launched for three types of troops - air defense, ground forces and navy
In the future, taking into account the individual characteristics of each branch of the military, it was decided to develop, according to unified tactical and technical requirements, the most unified universal (anti-aircraft and anti-missile) anti-aircraft missile system, which received the new name S-300:
for the army (variant S-300V, lead developer - NII-20 - "Scientific Research Electromechanical Institute"),
Navy (S-300F, VNII "Altair"),
air defense troops (S-300P, Almaz Central Design Bureau).
However, a deep interspecific unification of systems, the creation of which was carried out in various teams under highly contradictory requirements, was not at that time achieved. Thus, in the C-300P and C-300В systems, only 50% of functional radar detection devices were unified.

[abc_alex]

Quote: Jacket in stock

Quote: DominickS

B and VM

The S-300P, which the article is about, and the S-300V are completely different systems, they have only a common name.
Why did they do this, I don't know, apparently, so that the enemies would not guess.
But due to similar names, the failure of the ancient S300P now makes anti-advertising to all complexes.

"B" is a military version on tracks, modified at the request of the ground forces. "P" - Country air defense, wheeled chassis, modified according to the requirements of the air defense forces. That is why they differ.

[PSih2097]

Quote: DominickS

In and VM. There is also F - "Fort" for the fleet.

naval "F" is unified with "B" and they study in one place.

[Cyril G ...]

PT / PS are removed from arming. Several regiments remained somewhere in the wilderness. According to rumors, the PM complexes were driven through the modern a couple of times. The regiments with the S-300PM complexes, they say, have recently been equipped with the Armor division.
Well, 33 regiments (69 divisions) S-400 nominally include the Armor division. For that one exactly.
And recently they transferred the S-350 air defense missile system to the army, with the 9M96 missile defense system
Well, the army air defense brigades on the S-300V are being modernized in the S-300VM.

[parusnik]

The author asked a question in the title, but didn't find an answer to it in the article.

[Bez 310]

Yeah...
Another attempt to explain the destruction of our
"superweapons" by poor preparation of combat crews.

[Jacket in stock]

Under the pile of extra letters, you can even miss the point, so your statement is forgivable.
And the "translation from Damantsevsky" has already been written here many times, see above.

[Bez 310]

Quote: Jacket in stock

your statement is excusable.

I don’t have to forgive anything.
The fact that the air defense system was destroyed by the simplest drone,
speaks volumes. Not so long ago, our "Shells" too
were destroyed. In short, "I am tormented by vague doubts" ...

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Bez 310

The fact that the air defense system was destroyed by the simplest drone,
says a lot

This suggests that the system is ancient,
That even such a system could be used more competently,
That the system works only when it is integral, and not in separate parts.

[Cyril G ...]

Quote: Bez 310

Not so long ago, our "Shells" too
were destroyed.

I got into the question and you? Ours were not destroyed if that.

[Bez 310]

Quote: Cyril G ...

Ours were not destroyed

All "Shells" are ours.

[MKPU-115]

Quote: Bez 310

Quote: Cyril G ...

Ours were not destroyed

All "Shells" are ours.

In this case, the tanks of Azerbaijan are also ours, which the Armenians chop up with our own ATGMs.

[Bez 310]

Quote: MKPU-115

Azerbaijani tanks are also ours

Your, your ...

[Cyril G ...]

They seemed to belong to the Armed Forces of Syria and the UAE.
Reliably to this day, one in Libya was captured (UAE), the second (UAE) was disabled.
Two were damaged by the Israelis (Syria, probably fatally), and two more were damaged by the Turks by artillery fire, rumored to be restored.
Let's say this is a confirmed loss
Another 2-4 Armor may have been damaged in Libya. However, there is no confirmation, from the word at all.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Bez 310

All "Shells" are ours.

Whose crews were in the cabins?
And then in the same area there is an excellent example - the Iraqi army. When these guys fell in love with their T-72 under Saddam, everyone shouted about "backward Soviet weaponsThen the Iraqis got the Abrams. So what? They loved them too.
Stability is a sign of mastery.. ©

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Bez 310

The fact that the air defense system was destroyed by the simplest drone,
says a lot.

This speaks primarily of the absence of an air defense system.
The S-300 ** should not fight with shock UAVs - with the same success you can shoot "granites" at corvettes and IPC. The fight against UAVs is the task of the MD or ZRPK air defense systems, which should cover the S-300 positions. And, judging by the experience of Syria and Libya, there should be several covering air defense systems / air defense systems.
In addition, divisions should not look for their own targets, revealing their positions - this should be done by RTV. And already RTV KP data should be relayed to regiments and divisions, together with target designation: who, when and for whom works.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Bez 310

Yeah...
Another attempt to explain the destruction of our
"superweapons" by poor preparation of combat crews.

PS is far from superweapon

[Bez 310]

Quote: Pilat2009

PS is far from superweapon

Like the drone ...

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Bez 310

Quote: Pilat2009

PS is far from superweapon

Like the drone ...

The drone takes a small ep.ps, in principle, is not able to see it. It is necessary to develop specialized systems for catching drones

[Cyril G ...]

You need to use less tongues in the press ...
And so the preparation is really disgusting, and the bolt must have been hammered.

[Arnaut]

It's just that the Earth turned out to be not flat in Karabakh.

[Pilat2009]

"It could be." Keyword.
"And if he was carrying cartridges?"
It would be possible to put KAZ on tanks, it could be covered with shells ... everything depends on money

[Pastor]

Instead of upgrading in terms of the elementary part, he put the PU on low-profile rubber, tinted the windows and stuck the Sub behind the seat.

[Krasnodar]

The higher the mountains, the lower the Priora? (from)

[sevtrash]

Until recently, it was believed that Soviet / Russian air defense systems are one of the best and set the tone for the development of air defense systems in the world and in general, such as a superweapon that you just need to buy, and it will do the rest by itself. After Libya and Karabakh, it looks different, the hyped Armor and C300 cannot do anything with cheap drones. The reality, of course, may look a little different. In Syria, Russian air defense systems seem to work successfully against drones, but - S400 and Tor. And the effectiveness of some air defense systems is highly dependent on the creation of the most favorable conditions for them.
Conclusion - they missed the work on the creation of drones and on the modernization of weapons against them, including sold. And this must be done - for the sake of present and future customers. It's the same with PR campaigns - but where are the examples of the successful use of air defense systems against drones? Shots on TV, on the Internet? Or are they only for potential customers?
In general, as always, but we wanted the best.

[dragy52rus]

drones shoot down perfectly in Syria. if you do not see it does not mean that it is not. How many successful attacks have passed on our bases? how much did the Turks have recently lost after the Syrians pulled up their air defense?

[air defense]

In all fairness, the base in Syria was attacked with handicraft, if you allow Turkey or Israel to do this, the result will definitely be different. And it's not about the Russian air defense, with any other it will be the same, there are stupidly more drones, they will overload the air defense of the base, and if the calculation of the air defense makes a mistake, then they will cope with the air defense with less resources.
In Idlib, according to “insiders”, the drones began to fall when the Buk-i was pulled up, but this is not at all an equal exchange.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: sevtrash

In Syria, Russian air defense systems seem to work successfully against drones, but the S400 and Tor. And the effectiveness of some air defense systems is highly dependent on the creation of the most favorable conditions for them.

Everything is simpler: air defense systems alone do not work. The lone division is just a target. The strength of air defense is in a system in which different means of detecting and hitting a target complement and cover each other, working under a single control.
Buying only S-300 and relying on them is like building a ship armed only with Granites. And then send him into battle with the boats.

[Andrey sh]

These drones are knocked down by the ancient Shilkas and Tungusks. Not to mention MANPADS. But how to set up the complexes and organize the defense in the right way - this should be taught ...

[Sandro1977]

Do not quite understand where exactly the complex was destroyed, on the territory of Armenia or on the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh (de jure Azerbaijan)?

[Old Kaa]

on the territory of Armenia

[Sergey Sfiedu]

They wrote that in the territory of Karabakh. Azerbaijanis yesterday struck the first blow on the territory of Armenia proper.

[Sandro1977]

Then should the CSTO take some measures?

[Butchcassidy]

Baaaalin, Damantsev again. Well, it's impossible to read his texts !!

[certero]

There is nothing to shoot down drones. Generals are preparing for the last war, where the aviation will be. And you see how

[Operator]

The reason is the total absence in the RF Armed Forces of a short-range anti-aircraft complex of a penny cost: with 100 small anti-aircraft missiles (channel - 100 VC) with a laser seeker, a wide-angle video camera of the near infrared spectrum (for an all-angle view of the airspace) and a golimic lidar (massively installed in cameras fixing traffic violations).

In other words, the problem is in the minds of the RF Ministry of Defense, not in technology.

[air defense]

Whoever has such air defense, for a long time, the air defense was first of all sharpened to counteract massive air raids and then the CD was added. Drones have emerged as a real threat quite recently.

[Operator]

We should not be interested in the presence of such an air defense system over the hill, since we have already entered the stage of advanced development of our military equipment.

[Andrey sh]

Why is it so difficult and expensive? For such purposes, anti-aircraft guns with shrapnel shells (more precisely, with a detonation for shrapnel) and a radio fuse behind the eyes ... Preferably with a guidance station (well, your variant will have it). The speed of the drone is up to 185 km / h - 50 m / s, a kilometer flies in 20 seconds. An outdated 37-45 mm anti-aircraft gun can easily hit up to 4 km and 3 km in height at a speed of 150-180 rounds per minute. 10-15 rounds and a stadium-sized fragmentation field will be provided. And if you consider that they were quadruple ... 70 years ago, miniature radio fuses simply did not exist.

[sentaniel]

will it work only against kamikaze drones, but against shock drones that launch missiles or guided bombs from 8 km?

[Federal1]

the problem is not in the C -300, the problem is in the heads of those who make them and who orders them. It's time to face the truth, Russia is always preparing for the war of the last century and most likely it will be beaten just like Armenia. The technology gap is enormous. And do not blame the poor Armenians, use as taught. First, Israel poured Egypt during its wars, then Turkey poured Syria, now Izer. Armenians. And all with drones and new technologies. The topic is 50 years old, there is no antidote, except for the senseless pathos about the one who has no alalogs in the world and other nonsense of the red star. As they beat, they will continue to be beaten and excuses will appear again and then again and again .. All this is about the same thing, Russian weapons are certainly not rubbish, they just always lag behind modern trends. This is a problem of the economy as a whole and even more than the mentality of the fat-ass generals of past wars. This is where the main problem lies, and not that somewhere the mesh was not pulled or the rocket flew wrong. And again it will repeat 41 years and again they will fill the road to Berlin with meat. This song has no end, it is always the same, the technological backwardness of the army will be covered up with human losses, This is the essence of the doctrine of Russia now and this is terrible

[Andrey sh]

The only problem is industry and mass character. And toy drones are good for chasing barmaley without equipment ...

[yehat2]

Quote: Tlauicol

This drone war will have to teach us a lot

everyone knows everything for a long time. Nobody wants to move.

[yehat2]

Quote: Federal1

problem in heads

the problem is that no one is preparing an army for the battlefield - they rely only on nuclear weapons and cover them accordingly - hence the rapid development of the s300-s400-s500.
The carapace was a big and nice surprise, but the single-channel system wasn't much use.
He needs a radically different electronic filling. But again, this is an object defense system, not a field defense system.
But in fact, the army was left with BMP-2, armored personnel carriers, with T-72 tanks, with Kalash, with D30 howitzers, etc.
all this is 40-50 years old and modernization cannot indefinitely compensate for this.
UAVs are produced, but very conservatively. I don't see any real serious developments, except for Sukhoi's monstrous drone.
For example, look at the 30A2 42mm automatic cannon that is installed everywhere.
Is that what it is now capable of breaking through from modern goals? An old armored car, at best. Everything else does not break through to the forehead.
But the weapon at least shoots. And in the field of field communication and logistics, it is simply an abyss.

[your1970]

Quote: yehat2

all this is 40-50 years old and modernization cannot indefinitely compensate for this.

Here the United States just announced that their strategists will fly bombers for up to 100 years ...

[Pilat2009]

Quote: your1970

Quote: yehat2

all this is 40-50 years old and modernization cannot indefinitely compensate for this.

Here the United States just announced that their strategists will fly bombers for up to 100 years ...

The strategists have gone through and will go through more than one modernization and their main purpose is to release a pack of cruise missiles from a distance of 500 km

[yehat2]

from the bomber, except for the function to carry more, little is required.
In addition, the b-52 is no longer used precisely as a front-line bomber - either missiles from a distance or to level a defenseless target. And on the battlefield, performance characteristics are often of great importance.

[cmax]

Quote: yehat2

Quote: Federal1

problem in heads

the problem is that no one is preparing an army for the battlefield - they rely only on nuclear weapons and cover them accordingly - hence the rapid development of the s300-s400-s500.
The carapace was a big and nice surprise, but the single-channel system wasn't much use.
He needs a radically different electronic filling. But again, this is an object defense system, not a field defense system.
But in fact, the army was left with BMP-2, armored personnel carriers, with T-72 tanks, with Kalash, with D30 howitzers, etc.
all this is 40-50 years old and modernization cannot indefinitely compensate for this.
UAVs are produced, but very conservatively. I don't see any real serious developments, except for Sukhoi's monstrous drone.
For example, look at the 30A2 42mm automatic cannon that is installed everywhere.
Is that what it is now capable of breaking through from modern goals? An old armored car, at best. Everything else does not break through to the forehead.
But the weapon at least shoots. And in the field of field communication and logistics, it is simply an abyss.

Because nobody needs anything - good luck, boblo, cars are cooler, cuts are bigger. That's all there is to the top. It is not professionalism that rules, but sycophancy, not competence, devotion to leadership. For example, the whole world (developed) is switching to electricity and moving away from coal, oil, gas. In 10-15 years, electric vehicles will be in the lead. These are new technologies, new equipment, digital design. In Russia, all hope is for gas and oil. Perhaps they will still come in handy.

[Falcon5555]

they rely only on nuclear weapons and cover them accordingly - hence the rapid development of с300-с400-с500.

I'm not sure if the calculation is in this, and that it even exists. C-hundredths are impressive when they go to parades. Besides, the formal range of several hundred kilometers is impressive for politicians. Of course, they won't be told that they won't see anything beyond the nearest hillock. For example, Armenia is, in principle, a mountainous country. Where was the S-300 placed there? Probably in some valley? .. If, as Damantsev writes, the S-300 has a "dead zone" of several kilometers, and this "hillock" is a little closer, then, accordingly, with a reasonable planning of the attack, the result is clear. This is even without radio interference.

[TatarinSSSR]

Not in the eye, but in the eyebrow. I wanted to roll the same thing here, word for word)

[TermNachTer]

Was the military equipment destroyed on the territory of Armenia, that is, Azerbaijan attacked Armenia?

[MKPU-115]

Quote: TermNachTER

Was the military equipment destroyed on the territory of Armenia, that is, Azerbaijan attacked Armenia?

All the same, they attacked Armenia, ay yay yay. When will the Patriots be sent to Pashinyan from the USA?

[Dimax-nemo]

I am more interested in how these UAVs would be able to operate in the face of countermeasures with modern electronic warfare systems, than the fact that the S-300PS failed to cope with the goals that were not in the TZ. While remaining quite effective against aircraft. It is also clear that the destruction of UAVs with missiles like 48N6 and the like is firing cannons at sparrows. S-300V from the 80s and not that can detect and shoot down. But economically this occupation is completely hopeless. The UAV must be fought in a different way.

[huntsman650]

It all depends on the quality of the maintenance stations. There were two air defense systems on the ship, the social of one sees small-sized targets, cr, and the other does not, only samoli. It turned out that the receiver at one station was dying.

[Vitaly gusin]

the beginning of a dive on the 5P85S launcher, the latter continued to be in the stowed position,

Watch the recording from 1:03 min. what is it if not a rocket launch. If not right, correct.

[FenH]

Quote: Vitaly Gusin

the beginning of a dive on the 5P85S launcher, the latter continued to be in the stowed position,

Watch the recording from 1:03 min. what is it if not a rocket launch. If not right, correct.

This is what leg smokers do, Syria number 2, but was anyone on duty at that time and was engaged in control? In the course of the rolls they relaxed and smoked side by side

[zontov79]

Yes, Armenians, it's not to trade in the market. You have to study here.

[Tavush:]

I remember the vaunted patriots also missed the UAV attack on the Saudi oil depots

[chingachguc]

these are all excuses ... UAVs were able to easily penetrate into the depths of the enemy's air defense defenses, and attack them without being detected. Why this happened is another question. Or does someone think that this is an acceptable result for Armenia and Russia?

[meandr51]

Actually, I see a great testing ground for anti-UAV tactics and technologies. We urgently need to help Armenia in this noble cause!

[Prahlad]

And we have nothing like that ... Not a tactician or a technique

[sentaniel]

As not, but what about "Rosehip-AERO"?

[swzero]

and shouldn't the S-300 be covered with the same armor? Working with regular ammunition for such purposes is too fat.

[cmax]

Quote: Federal1

the problem is not in the C -300, the problem is in the heads of those who make them and who orders them. It's time to face the truth, Russia is always preparing for the war of the last century and most likely it will be beaten just like Armenia. The technology gap is enormous. And do not blame the poor Armenians, use as taught. First, Israel poured Egypt during its wars, then Turkey poured Syria, now Izer. Armenians. And all with drones and new technologies. The topic is 50 years old, there is no antidote, except for the senseless pathos about the one who has no alalogs in the world and other nonsense of the red star. As they beat, they will continue to be beaten and excuses will appear again and then again and again .. All this is about the same thing, Russian weapons are certainly not rubbish, they just always lag behind modern trends. This is a problem of the economy as a whole and even more than the mentality of the fat-ass generals of past wars. This is where the main problem lies, and not that somewhere the mesh was not pulled or the rocket flew wrong. And again it will repeat 41 years and again they will fill the road to Berlin with meat. This song has no end, it is always the same, the technological backwardness of the army will be covered up with human losses, This is the essence of the doctrine of Russia now and this is terrible

Personally, I agree with you 100%. The way it is.

[pexotinec]

Except how to trade, they do not know how to do anything, so here they have traded, you know what.

[Alexfly]

Elementary, Watson ... In short, we are talking about the fact that against a dozen other drones, air defense has no means of protection ...

[Campanella]

Obviously, the task is to modernize the complexes in accordance with the challenges of the time.
And there is an idea, an additional link with a new warhead sharpened for the destruction of small targets.

[snn]

Small drones need to be shot down with small shots from tank guns

[Shahno]

Quote: Krasnodar

Conspiracy of Chabad Lubavich Lubyanka against Belz Hasidim from Frunzenskaya Embankment. There is a struggle for the division of New Khazaria between two clans of bearers of the misanthropic ideology of Trotskyism-Zionism, the winner of which will get power over the border of Armenia with Turkey - a natural ally of world Jewry in the matter of eating Doner on the bones of Iranian fighters for the freedom of Al-Quds from the Christ-sellers who betrayed the ideals of the Islamic Revolution of 1979 for the sake of manufics from Azerbaijan!

Yes, now everything is clear ...

[lewerlin53rus]

30 years ago he graduated from the urgent military service in the Air Defense Department of the Soviet Union. 2nd CSC. Even then, "devyatnashka" was not the newest station.

[TatarinSSSR]

Damantsev .... I won't even write anything. Just let him know - tired of his, if only fables. There are facts - the destroyed radar and the launcher, but there are waving fists and an attempt to justify after. Neither the S-300 nor the S-400 have ever shown themselves anywhere as an effective means of anti-missile defense. Except polygons with the stupidest harmless target. And so far we see only ceremonial skating and wow, what "not having analogue in the world" tsatzki.

[Gunther]

Quote: Author

Undoubtedly, the unhindered strikes against the 36D6 (19Zh6) radar detector, captured by the dual-band (TV / IR) turret optical-electronic complexes of the UAV-kamikaze IAI "Harop" of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces ...

it is indisputable that the author completely excludes striking the models.

[Dzafdet]

Yesterday the Azerbaijanis destroyed the Iskander missile launcher. Judging by the video, the air defense forces were not escorted ...

[Comrade Kim]

Quote: Sergey Sfyedu

Azerbaijan exports oil, Armenia - only Armenians

You have greatly exaggerated this.
Both of them, and most of them are illegally located on the territory of the Russian Federation.
We are ready to send both those and others to the historical homelands, we have experience (in 2008 we trained in the expulsion of illegal Georgians).
Young Azerbaijanis arrived at the store nearest to their home. guys.
No belmes in Russian.
It is understood that the parents were sent away from the war. But why do we need them in Moscow?
And in the nearby shopping and entertainment center, the owner of which is an Armenian carrying out racial selection, they are hired on a national basis.
This is such a "get-together" for an Azerbaijani. and arm. in Moscow.

[Igor Rozhkov]

I looked through the article, watched the movie, read the comments. What can I say about this. The article is competent. The author is great, but information from such an article may need to be given to third-year cadets of air defense schools or academies in the form of lectures on the tactics of using UAVs in local conflicts of the 21st century. The author directly stunned an ordinary man in the street who was interested in military-technical problems with special terminology and an unknown abbreviation, such as a "high-energy microwave klystron of the upper S-band of decimeter waves (with 4 frequency" steps "of work), providing an average power of the transmission path of about 350 kW, which contributed to bringing the detection range of targets with an image intensifier of 0,1 sq. m up to 175 km (when operating at an altitude of 10000 - 15000 m) "or" It can be assumed that these are excerpts from the abstract of the dissertation for the degree of candidate of technical sciences, as a maximum or minimum of a diploma a graduate of the engineering faculty of the Air Defense Academy. From all there GHTs, klystrons, parabolas, etc., the people went into prostration. Therefore, someone has already predicted the decline of the S-300 (. Although it is constantly being modernized.) It may be so. years ago, but the confrontation between air defense and offensive weapons is not limited only by technical characteristics. characterized by technical and tactical characteristics, the so-called performance characteristics (tactical and technical characteristics). There are no universal air defense systems. If you ask the respected author of the article to give a classification of modern air defense systems, then he will need to do a series of essays of a scientific and educational type for the general public. I would like to reassure the homegrown all-fledged people, Azerbaijani jingoistic patriots and to cheer up ordinary people. There is nothing perfect. No planes, no air defense systems. However, the winner can be the one who will competently use weapons. By itself, the S-40 air defense system should cover any object or territory. But it works in conjunction with other types of weapons: reconnaissance systems and central control systems, electronic warfare systems, short-range air defense systems, the use of false air defense objects (these are famous inflatable devices), etc. etc. An air defense (missile defense) system, echeloned in terms of objectives, place, time and tasks, should be built. Small drones are not targets for the S-300. They should be destroyed by short-range air defense systems. The air defense system should be built in an integrated manner, which, in my opinion, was not on the Armenian side. The author suggests improving the technical means of the complex. And I would also add simple tactical means. Everyone forgot that during the Second World War, barrage balloons were effectively used. Whole fields were organized, below which (300 m) it was not safe to fly. Who prevented the Armenian forces from purchasing fishing nets (camouflage) and meteorological balloons in China ??? It seems to me that at night Azerbaijani drones almost rush over their heads. We need to deprive them of this space. A camouflage coloring will reduce the effectiveness of optical seeker. Why not??

[Falcon5555]

The author directly stunned the average man in the street ... with special terminology and an unknown abbreviation, such as "high-energy microwave klystron of the upper S-band

Readers of this site have long known about the author's "high-energy klystrons" that generate such technical-figurative texts.

[nekromonger]

After the shells and with 300, we will not be surprised that the c400 will be ukandoshat.

[Sergey_K]

it is necessary to allow private startups to develop in this direction. issue grants and secure an order. At the first stage, the components will be allowed to be used by Chinese and local Russian guys for you in two years they will rivet drones of any size and purpose.
the second stage, the buyout of the best samples, the creation of the element base and the launch of production in partnership with the former startup.
although what am I talking about ... in the current Russian Federation it is unrealistic ...

[nekromonger]

all orders will be received by Timchenkos, Wrotenbergigs, etc.

[sentaniel]

In fact, it was about electronic warfare

[FRoman1984]

The Armenians are paying for their carelessness and negligence with their lives.
Maybe this war will teach them that combat training should be carried out before the war, and not during.

[VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK]

The meaning is this! It looks like there is no competent layered air defense system! And there are no specialists! It looks like a human factor, not technology! Thor, does he have enough missiles? And he alone should cover the station? And what about the SU-30 that can't see drones from the air? Why then a radar from 400 ki? In short, it looks like the correct layered air defense scheme is used only by the Russians! And then you look at what complexes are in the brigades and you think where the RF Ministry of Defense thinks? In many places, too, landfills do not understand what complexes! Pantsyr has his own task, Thor has his own, S-300, S400 has his own, and you forgot about Buki! And they also have a huge distance on the battlefield! Can't use the same tactical missiles at the launch sites? And where is the intelligence? I missed the start! If we were in Syria as well, then the airbase would have been gone for a long time! Give them all any fancy complex, but without proper use it is a pile of metal! Ma by itself, the drone is not capable of giving out coordinates, only on approach! We're not talking about the big shock doors! That they didn't know where the guidance stations were? In short, to whom we sell Russian-made weapons, the low level of training of specialists working with them is visible! This is not an AK-47! I took it and went into battle!

[agond]

Quote: VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK

It looks like there is no competent layered air defense system

A layered system is not a panacea, any of our complex, S-300, S-400 or further S-500 is a basket of eggs, and with gold and therefore dozens of drones will be sent to defeat such a target in one raid, and there may be several raids and no "echolonization" will help here. There is only one way out, this is the refusal to launch missiles from the car, you must guess 4 missiles in a bundle stand vertically day and night like idols, !!! this is not possible, the container with the rocket must lie one by one on the ground, in a ditch, in the bushes, in a snowdrift, in a forest (just not stand anywhere like a monument) and rise to a vertical position only after the launch command,

[VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK]

Judging by your comment, you don't really understand this! One water and chatter! The first is to explain the effect of radar, then about missiles! Collided by the nature of the service!

[agond]

Quote: VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK

The first to explain the effect of radar, then about the rocket

Absolutely right is radar in the first place, at the beginning the target must be detected and only then a decision must be made, but we are talking about something else, valuable expensive equipment cannot be accumulated in one place, it must be dispersed and hidden, the number of observation systems of the enemy, the same satellites, or UAVs grows continuously.

[Shmel U]

Let's start with the article. 350 kW is a pulse power, but not average. Secondly, st68u where u means improved, improved from Ukrainian. it works on Doppler. Therefore, speed is important; it was created to combat small-sized, low-flying cruise missiles. But a cruise missile has 850 km/h and my main question is whether it was connected to the complex. The question is not idle. I’ve been repairing the St30u for 68 years...

[rtv]

Um... It seems that the author uses professional vocabulary, but it’s somehow strange - he calls the radar radars, the “nineteen” instead of a UHF locator suddenly became an S-band. For me it sounds something like this: yesterday the home arrived, I approached the door, and I left the cue in the square, I had to call the elevator again. Well, you can just write - I came home, discovered near the door that I had left the keys in the car, I had to call the elevator again. To be honest, these Anglicisms are out of place, like teenagers, by God.

In short, this entire analysis is not worth a damn (in no case is this the author’s assessment). Simply because without access to data it’s just guesswork.

More details - in the 70s of the last century, the United States launched a program for the production of cruise missiles designed to break through Soviet air defense at low altitudes (tens of meters) and at high speeds (800-900 km/h), I can’t vouch for the accuracy of the numbers, but something like this. In response, the USSR launched a program for the production of detection means and means for fire influence on these same cruise missiles, because the threat was not a joke. Legends say that the USSR developed the ST-68 radar (it is quite possible that 68 is the year of development, but here the legends are silent) and even had it at the time of the deployment of the program to combat cruise missiles. However, despite the fact that the radar had outstanding characteristics (like it had a phased array almost with electronic scanning), which were ahead of everything at that time, the cost of the station was either three (!) million Soviet rubles, or only one, I don't remember anymore. It is clear that this is a huge amount and therefore, on the basis of the ST-68, they made the ST-68U radar, where U does not mean improved, as one might think, but simplified. Then it was actually renamed 19Zh6. The “Bug” turned out to be quite good in terms of parameters, although worse than its prototype, but much cheaper. Another (known to me) low-altitude field station was 35N6 (Casta). The caste was “just” a two-dimensional radar, as opposed to a three-dimensional bug. But I got the impression that Casta (there is also Casta-2, its further development), and so, Casta was developed from scratch within the framework of this program, and the “nineteen” was obtained as part of “screwing on” an already finished product in order to participate in development of the budget for the program for the construction of a low-altitude field radar. And as for me, Casta is a more thoughtful product, albeit with slightly worse performance characteristics, but oh well. The main targets of the low-altitude field radar, including the 19Zh6 and its modification 35D6, were cruise missiles (CR) - targets traveling at an altitude of 50-100 at a speed of 800-900 km/h. All guidance documents are written based on these objectives. And the reason for not detecting drones could be, as strange as it sounds, a well-trained (!) crew of the station, but without experience in combat operations or at least long-term service in the ranks of the USSR/RF Armed Forces. Because according to the governing documents, the station is switched to the CD detection mode and its automation can simply discard targets that do not fit into the given speed range. I wrote it down here in more detail with details and numbers, but then I re-read it and deleted it just in case. Although students of military departments have already posted diagrams of “nineteen” cabinets on the Internet, and there aren’t really any secrets there anymore, God protects the best. In general, you'll have to take my word for it here. It is obvious that the parameters of drones as targets do not correspond to the parameters of the missile system at all. And the situation is completely similar to the situation with Rust - remember, he boarded a light aircraft on Red Square. And the situation there was simple - the air defense of the USSR was the most developed air defense in the world, thanks to the most developed US Air Force in the world. And the USSR air defense was designed to fight the US Air Force, and not light aircraft. If the P-18, which discovered Rust even before crossing the state border, instead of Rust had discovered a B-52N battle formation (although their launch line is far from our radar field, I used them as an example) or a massive raid by the Kyrgyz Republic, then I will tell you I assure you that a massive flight of aerospace attack weapons (ASAS) towards the state border of the USSR was a special case of the country’s air defense forces being on combat duty, and this entire country’s air defense system would have worked according to these SVCSs as needed and in full, I simply vouch for this . In the story with Rust, there was a calculation on the insignificance of the target from the point of view of the USSR air defense. Here we must not forget the fact that Rust was preceded by KAL007 four years earlier, after which a number of high-ranking Soviet commanders were punished for their steadfastness in protecting the state border of the USSR in airspace - well, you understand that absolution is needed? And there were other events before this, in the light of which the fact that Rust became the final link in the chain of special operations of Western intelligence services looks very, very plausible.

Once again, briefly - analyzing the reasons without detailed initial data can be done with the success of fortune telling on coffee grounds. A simple explanation here can be the fact that this radar was not intended to detect drones - they did not exist at the time of development, drones existed at that time, but were not similar in parameters to airplanes. Moreover, the radar “in parameters” (i.e., configured according to governing documents) ignores targets such as modern drones. Another explanation may be that 19Zh6 detected these same drones, but could not issue them to the consumer, because a fighter was walking along the position, tripped over the cable and damaged it/pulled it out of the connector - I’m exaggerating here, of course, but the meaning is clear. There is a story in the times of the USSR how, due to unprofessionalism, a person received an award based on the results of military exercises (that’s for sure) and almost a state award (that’s no longer certain) - but that’s another story.

In science, when there is no access to source data (as in this case), methods of estimation theory, a branch of mathematical statistics, are widely used. This theory allows us to estimate the true value of a parameter using a random sample. For example, we fired 100 times with a type A missile at a type B target and hit 70 targets - we write in the characteristics of missile A “the effectiveness of hitting type B targets is 0.7.” But to do this, we must have a large enough sample that we can trust. For example, the first 4 missile launches may be unsuccessful, and then 96 launches will end in hitting the target. If we make only 4 launches, it turns out that the rocket has an efficiency of 0, if we make 10 launches, it will be 0.6, and if we make all 100 launches, it will be 0.96. Do you feel the difference? It's not that simple, and therefore the defeat of one combat unit during a small conflict from the point of view of the central limit theorem and the law of large numbers is not a representative sample and cannot serve as the basis for any analysis within the framework of estimation theory. To put it simply - from a scientific point of view, without detailed data on these radars, air defense systems and drones during this conflict, you and I, ordinary people, cannot draw any conclusion. On the other hand, you need to write something, especially since people are interested in the topic...