Military Review

A promising PGRK for the Strategic Missile Forces of the DPRK

83

Parade formation of new PGRK


On October 10, a military parade was held in Pyongyang to mark the 75th anniversary of the DPRK Labor Party. At the event, the Korean People's Army displayed a range of promising prototypes of all sorts, including a new mobile ground-based missile system with an intercontinental ballistic missile. The potential adversary has every reason to fear these products.

Rocket parade


North Korea has not disclosed information about its development projects. Until October 10, the new PGRK was not officially reported, and any information about such systems appeared only at the level of rumors. Now the complex was shown to the public. However, according to the old "tradition", the name of the product was not named; the main characteristics remain unknown.

The parade crew included several self-propelled launchers of impressive appearance. They are built on the basis of an 11-axle special chassis of an unknown brand with a wide "double" cab. All the necessary units are placed on the chassis, including a launcher with a luffing boom and a large launch pad, as well as jacks for hanging out before launch.

ICBMs of a new type are transported and take off without the use of a transport and launch container - thanks to this, its appearance is already known. It is a large product with a cylindrical body and a tapered head. The products shown had a characteristic color with monotonous and staggered areas.


Thus, a new complex has been created for the strategic missile forces, capable of patrolling in certain areas and, if necessary, going to a firing position to perform a launch. At the same time, the new PGRK has not yet been brought to testing. Official North Korean and foreign sources have not yet reported on the launch.

Increase in characteristics


To date, the DPRK has created several intercontinental missile systems with different characteristics. They were developed through consistent refinement and improvement of designs with the introduction of new technologies and solutions. Thus, the two-stage product "Hwaseong-14", which was put into service by the KPA several years ago, throws a warhead at 10 thousand km. The later Hwaseong-15 ICBM, tested since 2017, should fly at 12-13 thousand km. Both complexes are movable.

The new ICBM, shown in the parade, differs from its predecessors in greater length and diameter, and also has an increased mass. All this led to the need for a new 11-axle chassis. For comparison, the previous PGRK "Hwaseong-15" with an ICBM with a length of approx. 23 m with a mass of 72 tons was managed by a conveyor with nine axles. Thus, the length of a promising rocket can reach 25-27 m, and the launch weight - 80-100 tons.

The appearance of the new ICBM indicates the use of a two-stage scheme with a separate stage of the combat load. It differs from its predecessors in the increased length of the first stage and large volumes inside their casings, available to accommodate fuel and oxidizer.


The camera angle allows you to see some of the features of the cockpit

Building on previous projects, the new ICBM should have liquid-propellant engines running on asymmetric dimethylhydrazine. The need to increase the flight range led to an increase in the required volume of tanks, which affected the mass and size parameters of the rocket and influenced the requirements for the chassis for the launcher. At the same time, a version is expressed about the use of a hybrid scheme - the second stage can use a solid fuel engine.

According to various sources and estimates, the Hwaseong-15 ICBM is capable of carrying a monobloc or multiple warhead with individual guidance units. The mass of combat equipment is at least 1 ton, and in both cases, nuclear warheads are used. A new ballistic missile must maintain or increase similar characteristics. It can be assumed that the MIR becomes standard equipment, and the throw weight is increased in proportion to the growth of other characteristics.

The performance characteristics of the PGRK in general and ICBMs in particular are unknown, and North Korea is unlikely to reveal them in the near future. The observed design features suggest that the new missile will surpass the previous ones in terms of its main parameters. The maximum range of "Hwaseong-15" is estimated at 13 thousand km. A larger ICBM of a new type with a different energy will exceed this threshold. It is possible that an exit to the level of 14-15 thousand km will be provided. The first realistic conclusions of this kind can only be drawn after testing.

Possible problems


For all its strengths, the new North Korean missile is unlikely to be able to match the developments of world leaders in this area. Modern ICBMs, not to mention promising models, combine a range of 10-12 thousand km with a throw-weight of several tons, a multiple warhead, etc. As can be judged from the available data, the DPRK has not yet mastered all the necessary technologies and while its developments will lag behind foreign ones.


The operator kindly showed the units of the launcher

Certain questions are raised by the presented chassis, which became the basis for the PGRK. Earlier, foreign media spoke out and discussed the version about the Chinese origin of the carriers for the Korean missiles. Allegedly, the 9-axle chassis was developed in the PRC and transferred the documentation to the DPRK, which changed the project and mastered production. In this regard, it is possible that the new extended chassis is also of imported origin.

Rocket prospects


Official Pyongyang has not yet announced the testing of a new ICBM. The armed forces of foreign countries monitoring the activity of North Korea also did not record such events. News recently affected only missiles of previous models. How soon the flight tests of the new ICBM will begin is unknown. However, it can be assumed that the KPA Strategic Missile Forces will not pull, and after the display of the complex will demonstrate the rocket in action.

Tests may take several years, after which the DPRK will adopt a new PGRK into service. Its appearance in the army will significantly affect the strategic potential, which by that time will be based on two types of Hwaseong ICBMs and submarine ballistic missiles. Moreover, it is the promising missile that will become the most powerful and dangerous in North Korea's nuclear arsenal.

New land-based missiles with a range of at least 10 thousand km are becoming a serious military-political tool. Such weapon able to control the entire Asia-Pacific region and even threaten targets in the continental United States or Europe. Such a military-political argument, put on alert, will have to be taken into account when making any decisions and conducting any negotiations. In addition, the development of SLBMs is underway, which will also become an important component of the strategic deterrence system.


Obviously, the new missile will not go unnoticed by foreign countries. Foreign media have already published publications about the dangers of the new PGRK and the need to take certain measures against Pyongyang. How events will develop - time will tell.

According to the results of the parade


At the recent parade, the DPRK showed a lot of new samples that are of great interest from technical and other points of view. The most important novelty can be considered precisely the promising mobile ground-based missile system with increased characteristics. It has not yet entered service, but it could happen in just a few years - and change the strategic capabilities of the Korean People's Army.

The purpose of the parade is to demonstrate the achievements of the defense industry and the army. In this context, ballistic missiles are almost the main participants in the event. In addition, the parade shows the potential enemy the potential of the armed forces, and the new PGRK has already coped with this task.
Author:
Photos used:
DTV DPRK
83 comments
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  1. NEXUS
    NEXUS 13 October 2020 18: 12
    +1
    The mobile platform itself is very much like our tractors for the Yars. Why's that? winked
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 13 October 2020 18: 19
      +5
      except for a double cabin, nothing else, Andrey .. generally looks like a props, too huge a rocket for a PGRK .. or rather, it looks more like a tractor bringing the rocket to the launch table .. the gyrocompass is not even visible anywhere and the paws are frail, what from it PGRK
      1. Simargl
        Simargl 14 October 2020 04: 33
        0
        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
        the gyrocompass is not even visible anywhere
        What about huge?
        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
        weak paws
        6 items. Few?
        1. YOUR
          YOUR 14 October 2020 04: 37
          +1
          Moreover, behind the table, on which the rocket rests, if it is a tractor for transportation, then such a thing is clearly superfluous
          1. The comment was deleted.
        2. 2 Level Advisor
          2 Level Advisor 14 October 2020 08: 00
          0
          gyrocompass is not huge .. but quite visible wink
          Yes, in order to "hang out" such a fool, the area must be stupidly large, or (and) their number, otherwise they will go to the ground ..
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 14 October 2020 13: 50
            0
            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            Yes, in order to "hang out" such a fool, the area must be stupidly large, or (and) their number, otherwise they will go to the ground ..
            It depends on what tactics are used. If, like ours, from any patrol point, then yes. And if only from a prepared site, which is hinted at by the "patches" of the small area of ​​the "launch pad" ...
            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            gyrocompass is not huge .. but quite visible
            Prominent where? Is he with a cabinet size? More like a printer.
            1. 2 Level Advisor
              2 Level Advisor 14 October 2020 13: 51
              0
              https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2018-02/1519145058_topol-3.jpg - ну смотря какого принтера) если 70х.. то да
              1. Simargl
                Simargl 14 October 2020 14: 12
                0
                Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                well, depending on what
                And?
                It can be of any design and stuck anywhere. Up to external support.
                1. 2 Level Advisor
                  2 Level Advisor 14 October 2020 16: 27
                  0
                  I'm talking about the facts of what the Koreans do not see, and what the Yars have, and not where he can be stuck there wink and I think that we are still far from a little ahead of them in these technologies, but somewhere there he was not hidden, because he needs to be not rigidly tied to the hull - at least, he cannot be in the cockpit therefore .. You are in the subject and troll me or really talk? laughing
                  1. Simargl
                    Simargl 14 October 2020 19: 48
                    0
                    Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                    Are you in the subject and troll me or are you really talking?
                    I saw it in the surveyor. It's not big there - I now have a slightly smaller MFP.
                    But even on Topol it is not very big: the rest is a platform. Perhaps - to overclock the disc.
                    1. 2 Level Advisor
                      2 Level Advisor 15 October 2020 08: 51
                      0
                      well .. I was referring to the picture tossed .. the size of a standard barrel is not very small .. although if you take modern technologies in 2020, you can probably make it with a regular printer .. but in the army everything is not small for some reason .. always amazed .. probably because until the product reaches the troops - 10-15 years progress passes ..
                      1. Simargl
                        Simargl 15 October 2020 14: 25
                        0
                        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                        but in the army everything is not small for some reason .. I was always amazed at this .. probably because until the product reaches the troops - 10-15 years progress passes ..
                        Like BE ... there was a surveyor from the 80s. On Shishiga.
      2. YOUR
        YOUR 14 October 2020 04: 43
        0
        Gyro-compass? Hmm No. Where do you think it should be and how it looks.
        1. 2 Level Advisor
          2 Level Advisor 14 October 2020 07: 56
          0
          https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2018-02/1519145058_topol-3.jpg
          right in front) it looks like if this is a real launcher-table behind, just because there are problems with the gyrocompass .. well, in other things, you yourself have already said that he has little in common with Yars
    2. SaLaR
      SaLaR 13 October 2020 18: 41
      +2
      Lada also, in principle, resemble Mercedes laughing
    3. YOUR
      YOUR 14 October 2020 04: 31
      +1
      It is quite possible that it is taken as a basis, but no more. Yars has 8 pairs of wheels, this one has 11, the cabin is already different, some kind of narrow-eyed. The engine compartment has nothing in common.
      The silhouette from a distance can be confused, but no more.
  2. paul3390
    paul3390 13 October 2020 18: 15
    11
    The Juche people give it - in a complete blockade for fifty years, a country with a fig, the people are like in Moscow, there is no oil and gas, arable land too - but well, they made a nuclear bomb, they rivet ICBMs, and in general they more or less survive .. for this at least one capital country, even the United States? Oh, I doubt it .. Here it is, the triumph of socialism. And imagine what would have happened in Russia and in the world if our type of elite had not betrayed the USSR?
    1. Eldorado
      Eldorado 13 October 2020 18: 22
      -12 qualifying.
      Wake up. hi
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 13 October 2020 18: 27
        11
        Have a hangover.
    2. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 13 October 2020 19: 30
      -2
      The initial basis - the defense (and civil) industry of the DPRK and the scientific and engineering school was created by the USSR. And then - the population of 25 million plus a tail, eat little, work a lot - under a totalitarian leadership there is an opportunity to turn around.
      "If our type of elite had not betrayed the USSR?" - The USSR is not North Korea, our people, due to the lack of sausage in stores, sent socialism to hell, and there people live a day on a bowl of rice - and they are happy with everything (and if they are not happy, then the appropriate authorities will take care of them) ..
  3. Odysseus
    Odysseus 13 October 2020 18: 19
    +5
    The parade, of course, was simply enchanting.
    New ICBMs, SLBMs, medium and short-range missiles, super-heavy MLRS.
    Well, to a heap of trifles in the form of a new tank, assault self-propelled guns, air defense systems, anti-tank systems, and so on.
    Now, against the backdrop of the "pandemic", the DPRK's positions look stronger than ever.
    For those who have not seen
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 13 October 2020 18: 33
      +5
      Well done Koreans, with a lack of resources, they manage to organize such an army ... well done Eun.
      1. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 13 October 2020 20: 08
        -4
        Quote: The same Lech
        with a lack of resources, they manage to organize such an army ...

        Which one?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 13 October 2020 20: 19
          +7
          Quote: Lara Croft
          Which one?

          Able to organize unacceptable losses not only to South Korea, but also to the United States together with its ally Japan.

          Otherwise, they have long been de-democratized. And so they are afraid ...
          1. Lara Croft
            Lara Croft 13 October 2020 20: 29
            -4
            Quote: Spade
            Quote: Lara Croft
            Which one?

            Able to organize unacceptable losses not only to South Korea, but also to the United States together with its ally Japan.

            Are they themselves immortals ...?
            Otherwise, they have long been de-democratized. And so they are afraid ...

            ... until they got their hands on ... the empirialists have accumulated a lot of experience in conducting "color revolutions", the question is in time, money, and most importantly in personnel ...
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 13 October 2020 20: 34
              +6
              Quote: Lara Croft
              Are they themselves immortals ...?

              They will be able to withstand much more losses than the Americans and even more so the Japanese.

              Quote: Lara Croft
              ... until the hands reach ..

              Well, kaneshno ...
              Look, my hands reached Iraq three times ...
              "The grapes are green"
              1. Lara Croft
                Lara Croft 13 October 2020 20: 44
                -6
                Quote: Spade
                They will be able to withstand much more losses than the Americans and even more so the Japanese.

                And who said that the Americans are planning losses?
                If Eun gets angry, the allies (read competitors) of the United States in the APR and the allies of the DPRK will suffer ...
                Look, my hands reached Iraq three times ...

                There was a case, there was Iraq and it is not, ayuu Iraq where are you ....?
                And so
                kaneshno ...
                do not want to swap places with the North Korean people, otherwise you forgot how to overcome the difficulties of everyday work in spite of the Empireists, who will soon fall apart ...
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 13 October 2020 20: 57
                  +6
                  Quote: Lara Croft
                  And who said that the Americans are planning losses?

                  laughing
                  And where are the Americans? The North Koreans are planning their losses.

                  Quote: Lara Croft
                  If Eun gets angry, the allies (read competitors) of the United States in the APR will suffer

                  The main US allies in the fight against China will suffer. Which is definitely unacceptable for the USA.

                  Quote: Lara Croft
                  There was a case, there was Iraq and it is not, ayuu Iraq where are you ....?

                  Exactly!. And the DPRK is in place. And even the ruling dynasty did not change ...

                  This is what is called "unacceptable losses" - the Americans are afraid of risks and therefore do not climb, knowing that in the end they can whitewash .. But they are not ready to pay the declared price for this victory.


                  Quote: Lara Croft
                  do not want to swap places with the North Korean people

                  And I'm in my place. Our country has also moved away from direct American control. And it is also capable of inflicting unacceptable losses on the United States and allies. Otherwise, look at Yugoslavia.

                  Quote: Lara Croft
                  otherwise they forgot how to overcome the difficulties of everyday work in spite of the Empireists, who will soon fall apart ...

                  And you are a fan of the way of life "even if they put them on a chain, the main thing is to feed them satisfyingly?"
                  1. Lara Croft
                    Lara Croft 13 October 2020 21: 22
                    -4
                    Quote: Spade
                    Quote: Lara Croft
                    And who said that the Americans are planning losses?

                    laughing
                    And where are the Americans? The North Koreans are planning their losses.

                    Well, let fairy tales tell about how they
                    plan

                    The main US allies in the fight against China will suffer. Which is definitely unacceptable for the USA.

                    Both the opponents of the PRC and the PRC itself are the competitors of the United States in the APR, and the Americans do not care about them ... the only thing that is unacceptable for the United States is the prosperity of the PRC and their opponents (US allies) ...
                    And the DPRK is in place. And even the ruling dynasty did not change ...

                    All this has already taken place in the USSR, when the Party's devotees removed Article 6 from the Constitution of the USSR, and then disbanded the CPSU, the Komsomol and the Pioneer organization ... also all, as one were ideological, now they are sitting in different parties ...
                    Americans are afraid of risks and therefore do not climb

                    Therefore, they imposed sanctions against the DPRK, and the communist PRC and the country "defeated capitalism" in a single country, the United States supported ...
                    Otherwise, look at Yugoslavia.

                    She got what she got, Yugoslavia always showed its teeth to the USSR, signed an agreement with the United States in the 50s, supplied Bendera in Ukraine through Hungary, looked at Soviet citizens who came to them as "poor relatives", we are for them " brothers "became only after 1999.
                    And you are a fan of the way of life "even if they put them on a chain, the main thing is to feed them satisfyingly?"

                    I will feed myself under any government, but if they want to put on a chain, then I will go to another country ... I am a techie by my first education ...
                    Well, we deviated from the topic, the article is not about us, but about the KPA and its capabilities ...
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 13 October 2020 21: 35
                      0
                      Quote: Lara Croft
                      Well, let fairy tales tell about how they

                      Well, the "local man in the street" just knows that the military always plans their actions. And these are not "fairy tales". Didn't you know that?

                      Quote: Lara Croft
                      Both the opponents of the PRC and the PRC itself are the competitors of the United States in the APR, and the Americans do not care about them ... the only thing that is unacceptable for the United States is the prosperity of the PRC and their opponents (US allies) ...

                      Understood nothing...
                      Your logic is too non-linear.

                      Quote: Lara Croft
                      All this has already taken place in the USSR, when the Party's devotees removed Article 6 from the Constitution of the USSR, and then disbanded the CPSU, the Komsomol and the Pioneer organization ... also all, as one were ideological, now they are sitting in different parties ...

                      I do not understand again
                      And again, nonlinear.
                      How does this all relate to the fact that there is no Iraq, but the DPRK is there, and the third generation of Kims is in power?
                      You do not.
                      Quote: Lara Croft
                      She got what she got, Yugoslavia always showed its teeth to the USSR, signed an agreement with the United States in the 50s, supplied the Bendera people through Hungary

                      Again, non-linear.
                      They talked about the fact that Russia did not repeat the fate of Yugoslavia, and you answer "Yugoslavia itself is to blame."
                      Elderberry in the garden, uncle in Kiev. (C)

                      Quote: Lara Croft
                      I will feed myself under any government, but if they want to put on a chain, then I will go to another country ... I am a techie by my first education ...
                      Well, we deviated from the topic, the article is not about us, but about the KPA and its capabilities ...

                      Blah blah blah
                    2. Livonetc
                      Livonetc 13 October 2020 21: 57
                      +1
                      And North Korea has the ability to live as they see fit.
                      They have few resources, but they manage and have achieved many things that others, with a densely packed stomach, cannot.
                      And this is very serious nowadays.
                      They are real men and women, capable of creativity and feat.
                      Unlike mattresses in their heroic sexuality.
                      As for personal preference.
                      If necessary, I will borrow a personal trench on my piece of land.
                      God did not offend him with his hands and skills.
                      And a stone mason and a finisher and an electrician and much more practical.
                      Despite the fact that for a quarter of a century, a professional manager ..
                      My ancestors, for centuries, lived, fought and died for Russia.
                      And no matter how hard it was, they stayed here.
                      1. Lara Croft
                        Lara Croft 13 October 2020 22: 46
                        0
                        Quote: Livonetc
                        And North Korea has the ability to live as they see fit.

                        Who are they? The people of the DPRK, in principle, cannot count anything, what their senior comrades say, they think so ...
                        They have few resources, but they manage and have achieved many things that others, with a densely packed stomach, cannot.

                        They cope thanks to the PRC, by the way, the "Juche" regime does not hesitate to provide humanitarian aid from the United States ....
                      2. Simargl
                        Simargl 14 October 2020 04: 48
                        +1
                        Quote: Lara Croft
                        By the way, the Juche regime does not hesitate to provide humanitarian aid from the United States ....
                        Well ... they strangled them with sanctions, and then they "help". From what do you think there are crop failures and problems with food?
                      3. Lara Croft
                        Lara Croft 14 October 2020 08: 00
                        -2
                        Quote: Simargl
                        strangled by sanctions on the most nebaluysya, and then "help". From what do you think there are crop failures and problems with food?

                        Not at all. It is immediately evident that when you wrote, you did not bother to read periodicals on the topic.
                        The northern part of the Korean Peninsula is 77 percent mountainous. Historically, it was not considered as a territory in which agriculture could be developed, so the emphasis was on industry. During Japanese rule, the southern half of the peninsula became an agricultural appendage, and industrial facilities began to be built in the northern.
                        As long as Korea was a unified state, such a division was justified and balanced the country's potential. However, after the division, it became problematic for North Korea to maintain stability. Since the mid-60s, the country had to introduce ration cards that helped redistribute food.
                        From 1995 to 1999, North Korea experienced a humanitarian catastrophe associated with economic stagnation and natural disasters. The main tragedy of this period was famine, which claimed from 500 thousand to three million lives. Together with him, cases of cannibalism and looting were recorded, epidemics of diseases broke out.

                        https://koreya24.ru/o-strane/golod-v-severnoi-koree
                        Not a word about the sanctions, which against the DPRK have never been constant and uniform, as it is now ...
                      4. smart fellow
                        smart fellow 14 October 2020 10: 33
                        -2
                        Take the trouble yourself to read periodicals on the topic of hunger, which was in countries where there is enough agricultural land.
                        Ukraine https://is.gd/qZRuxd
                        There are no exact data on the number of deaths from hunger in the Ukrainian SSR. According to estimates of modern demographers from INED, the probable size of supermortality for the Ukrainian SSR in 1933 was 2,2 million people. In publications and films of the North American diaspora, as well as from the stands of individual Ukrainian politicians, numbers in 7, 8 and even 10 million.
                        Kazakhstan https://is.gd/XdJ3Gy
                        As a result, from 1931 million people died during 1933-1. (estimated by Robert Conquest) to 1,75 million people. (estimate by Abylkhozhin, Kozybaev and Tatimov, 1989).
                        .
                        Here is what they write in periodicals about the famine in the United States https://is.gd/uYOkyu
                        In 2008, Russian historian Boris Borisov published his study of the consequences of the economic crisis in the Wikipedia network encyclopedia and came to the conclusion that the United States died of hunger 5 to 7 million Americans.
                        In the DPRK in the 90s of the last century, about 100 thousand people died from diseases associated with hunger, according to official figures. I heard from a Korean worker from the DPRK who worked in Russia.
                        There are many countries in the world that do not produce enough food to support themselves. But nevertheless, there is no hunger there, because they just buy it in other countries. But to buy food you need currency. The DPRK also lacks oil products and mineral fertilizers for the purchase of which foreign currency is also needed and without which agriculture is ineffective. At the same time, the UN Security Council even imposed restrictions on the sale of petroleum products to the DPRK. The DPRK cannot receive currency because The UN Security Council introduced various sanctions to restrict the inflow of foreign currency into the country - read periodicals.
                        We can of course say that these tough sanctions were introduced only a few years ago. But in reality, they began to act immediately after the Korean War (which has not been officially terminated) and after the collapse of the USSR, their effect increased dramatically. After the collapse of the socialist system, the DPRK predicted the role of another "Asian tiger", but because of American pressure, the miracle did not happen. Interesting facts can be learned from periodicals. In the DPRK, for example, a British firm was looking for oil. Presumably industrial oil reserves were discovered, sufficient to fully supply the country and export abroad, near a large oil field in China, which has been exploited for decades. However, after several years of operation, they were phased out due to pressure on the US services firm.
                      5. Lara Croft
                        Lara Croft 15 October 2020 08: 07
                        -2
                        Quote: smart fellow
                        Take the trouble yourself to read periodicals on the topic of hunger, which was in countries where there is enough agricultural land.
                        Ukraine https://is.gd/qZRuxd
                        There are no exact data on the number of deaths from hunger in the Ukrainian SSR. According to estimates of modern demographers from INED, the probable size of supermortality for the Ukrainian SSR in 1933 was 2,2 million people. In publications and films of the North American diaspora, as well as from the stands of individual Ukrainian politicians, numbers in 7, 8 and even 10 million.
                        Kazakhstan https://is.gd/XdJ3Gy
                        As a result, from 1931 million people died during 1933-1. (estimated by Robert Conquest) to 1,75 million people. (estimate by Abylkhozhin, Kozybaev and Tatimov, 1989).
                        .
                        Here is what they write in periodicals about the famine in the United States https://is.gd/uYOkyu
                        In 2008, Russian historian Boris Borisov published his study of the consequences of the economic crisis in the Wikipedia network encyclopedia and came to the conclusion that the United States died of hunger 5 to 7 million Americans.
                        In the DPRK in the 90s of the last century, about 100 thousand people died from diseases associated with hunger, according to official figures. I heard from a Korean worker from the DPRK who worked in Russia.
                        There are many countries in the world that do not produce enough food to support themselves. But nevertheless, there is no hunger there, because they just buy it in other countries. But to buy food you need currency. The DPRK also lacks oil products and mineral fertilizers for the purchase of which foreign currency is also needed and without which agriculture is ineffective. At the same time, the UN Security Council even imposed restrictions on the sale of petroleum products to the DPRK. The DPRK cannot receive currency because The UN Security Council introduced various sanctions to restrict the inflow of foreign currency into the country - read periodicals.
                        We can of course say that these tough sanctions were introduced only a few years ago. But in reality, they began to act immediately after the Korean War (which has not been officially terminated) and after the collapse of the USSR, their effect increased dramatically. After the collapse of the socialist system, the DPRK predicted the role of another "Asian tiger", but because of American pressure, the miracle did not happen. Interesting facts can be learned from periodicals. In the DPRK, for example, a British firm was looking for oil. Presumably industrial oil reserves were discovered, sufficient to fully supply the country and export abroad, near a large oil field in China, which has been exploited for decades. However, after several years of operation, they were phased out due to pressure on the US services firm.

                        All of the above you only confirm my arguments that the famine in the DPRK was created by the leadership of the DPRK, and not by external sanctions, by your own examples, you confirmed that the leadership of the country in which the famine occurs is itself capable of destroying its citizens without any external sanctions ...
                      6. smart fellow
                        smart fellow 16 October 2020 08: 01
                        0
                        In the case of the United States, this is so. The US government deliberately killed its fellow citizens. Ordinary Americans were dying of hunger, and food was destroyed. Read The Grapes of Wrath by J. Steinbeck.
                        As for the DPRK, then there was simply not enough food. However, now you don't have to worry about ordinary Koreans in North Korea. The processing of coal into liquid petroleum products has been established there. And there is a lot of coal there, and thanks to the ban on exports to China, they are generally piled up. A large fertilizer plant was recently launched. I guess he's not the only one.
                      7. Lara Croft
                        Lara Croft 16 October 2020 19: 59
                        -1
                        Quote: smart fellow
                        However, now you don't have to worry about ordinary Koreans in North Korea. The processing of coal into liquid petroleum products has been established there. And there is a lot of coal there, and thanks to the ban on exports to China, they are generally filled up. A large fertilizer plant has recently been launched. I guess he's not the only one.

                        That's good ... because it pisses off Americans ...
    2. Simargl
      Simargl 14 October 2020 04: 39
      0
      Quote: Lara Croft
      There was a case, there was Iraq and it is not, ayuu Iraq where are you ....?
      The patient is rather alive. And it squeezes its "benefactors" out of the country a little bit.
      1. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 14 October 2020 08: 02
        -1
        Quote: Simargl
        Quote: Lara Croft
        There was a case, there was Iraq and it is not, ayuu Iraq where are you ....?
        The patient is rather alive. And it squeezes its "benefactors" out of the country a little bit.

        What kind of benefactors. Oil-producing companies, as they were in Iraq, and remained there, Iraq itself is divided along religious and ethnic lines ...
  • venik
    venik 13 October 2020 23: 18
    +2
    Quote: Lara Croft
    the empirialists have accumulated a lot of experience in carrying out "color revolutions" the question is in time, money, and most importantly in personnel ...

    ========
    I would like to see HOW they succeed: to arrange a "color revolution" in the "Juche" country ..... But at the same time God forbid to seeWHAT it will end for the "democratizers"! (in the sense: What can it do outgrow!) .....
  • fa2998
    fa2998 13 October 2020 18: 20
    +2
    There are a lot of news from the DPRK, and MBTs are shown, and new missiles. In modern military technology, half the cost is electronics. There is so much of it crammed, Mama do not cry! Does the DPRK do it itself? And does it produce electronic components, or import it from China? Then what kind of shisha?
    If Russia has some problems in this area, does the DPRK itself make the same MSA what hi
    1. Mirabo
      Mirabo 13 October 2020 18: 42
      +1
      There are strong doubts that there is at least something modern. They had no money to buy a new one from the Chinese, as well as technology. Outside, there may be a rocket and it looks like a new one, but inside there is a maximum of technology of the level of the 70s.
      1. kot423
        kot423 13 October 2020 18: 56
        +4
        Quote: Mirabo
        but inside the maximum technology of the level of the 70s

        From this, the mattresses in ecstasy after your words should beat, if this fool with yabch L.A. will turn to dust?
        1. Sergey Sfiedu
          Sergey Sfiedu 13 October 2020 19: 36
          -4
          Eun is not going to turn LA to dust. Far from being a stupid person. He needs rockets and an atomic bomb so that no one (ie the United States and South Korea) would prevent him from robbing his people as he sees fit. And he achieved his goal. Now the main thing is that no one of the relatives would sit up.
          1. kot423
            kot423 13 October 2020 19: 41
            +3
            I didn’t claim that Eun wasn’t on friendly terms with his head and the 1st would start. "did not prevent him from robbing his people" - this is purely your point of view, mine is diametrically opposite to yours. The DPRK, in spite of the pressure in everything, was able to create the Armed Forces of its country, and create such that they simply sent mattresses to the erotic footwear, to which the mattresses were wiped off and pretended that nothing had happened. This alone is worthy of respect.
            1. Sergey Sfiedu
              Sergey Sfiedu 13 October 2020 19: 57
              -2
              Well, what about wiped off, too, how to say - Eun dismantled his nuclear test site after meeting with Trump. The pressure on them only in recent years has become, before that they traded freely with the whole world. Sun created - so Hitler, too, what kind of sun created. You can only respect Eun for one thing - he really improved the lives of ordinary North Koreans by allowing them (or rather, turning a blind eye to) self-employment and private entrepreneurship, and investing most of the country's income in rockets and carrying dummies to parades is not a big science.
              1. kot423
                kot423 13 October 2020 20: 07
                +2
                Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
                Eun dismantled his nuclear test site after meeting with Trump

                Thank you for your high spirits. If you are not banned in Google, google the requirements of the mattresses to the DPRK, with which they proudly negotiated. And also - how they dumped from these negotiations with their tails between their legs, beaten by dogs.
                "The pressure on them only in recent years has become" - is it true? Facts in the studio, or yap, tk. they are nightmares in one form or another after the signing of the demarcation line.
                PS Are you so naive that you are sure that the landfill was 1? Eun is not a stupid person (your words), so he will not step on his own throat.
              2. Lara Croft
                Lara Croft 13 October 2020 20: 21
                -1
                Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
                You can only respect Eun for one thing - he really improved the lives of ordinary North Koreans by allowing them (or rather, closing their eyes to) self-employment and private entrepreneurship.

                Well, first of all, not everyone, but for those who are engaged in entrepreneurship, the obligatory% of the profit is given to the state, only one family member is thrown into business, and others must work in a factory or factory ...
                As soon as some of these entrepreneurs receive the status of special, corruption will appear, and then the destruction of the regime ...
        2. Mirabo
          Mirabo 13 October 2020 22: 54
          -1
          If the DPRK announces the invention of a superluminal engine, will you believe it too?
          1. kot423
            kot423 13 October 2020 23: 00
            -1
            I believe that from PTRD - 1, created in a month! almost on their knees, they burned much more technologically advanced tanks of the Germans. Does it look like nothing?
      2. Simargl
        Simargl 14 October 2020 04: 50
        +1
        Quote: Mirabo
        Outside, there may be a rocket and it looks like a new one, but inside there is a maximum of technology of the level of the 70s.
        The rocket is freshly manufactured, i.e. new. However, old technology made it huge.
    2. Odysseus
      Odysseus 13 October 2020 19: 04
      +1
      Quote: fa2998
      .In modern military technology, half of the cost is electronics. There is so much of it crammed, Mama Do not Cry! Does the DPRK do it itself, and does it manufacture electronic components or import it from China?

      They do something themselves, receive something in the form of "international assistance" and the schemes are different there, money is not always required. Barter is also possible smile
      But the lag behind the best world models in this regard is, of course, large, they do not do anything super-technological.
      Well, for the purposes of defense against anyone, they have enough.
    3. smart fellow
      smart fellow 13 October 2020 23: 32
      -1
      It produces smartphones, tablets and laptops: https://www.ixbt.com/news/2020/02/06/v-severnoj-koree-predstavleno-novoe-pokolenie-smartfonov.html. Well, the processors are probably imported from China or Taiwan, but who knows?
      In the 70s of the last century, the DPRK sold home computers to Australia, and electrical products to Japan. Russian expert on nuclear weapons Vladimir Khrustalev believes that the Koreans paid off with Pakistan for nuclear technology not only for missile technologies, but also for high-tech electrical products, which were banned from the West for sale to Pakistan. In North Korea, its own production of fiber optic cable, CNC machines are exported to Russia. A well-known story with the supply of turbines from the DPRK for the Bureyskaya HPP. Historian Boris Yulin says that in some online publication they said that the turbines were made in St. Petersburg, but Chubais told about it. So who has more faith? Some Internet resource or Chubais - at that time the head of RAO "EU of Russia".
      The aforementioned Vladimir Khrustalev said that the DPRK industry cannot churn out smartphones in the millions like South Korea, but can produce anything in limited quantities.
      1. Mimoprohodil
        Mimoprohodil 16 October 2020 10: 56
        0
        Quote: smart fellow
        A famous story with the supply of turbines from the DPRK for the Bureyskaya HPP
        Unknown http://www.burges.rushydro.ru/hpp/general/
        Turbines - type PO140 / 866-V-625 Manufacturer: JSC "Leningrad Metal Plant"
        1. smart fellow
          smart fellow 16 October 2020 11: 32
          0
          It happens. Maybe not turbines, maybe not for the Bureyskaya HPP.
          Conversation with Boris Yulin.
          https://oper.ru/news/read.php?page=1&t=1051613979
          When, under the chairman of RAO UES, Anatoly Chubais, they began to build the Bureyskaya HPP, out of habit, they ordered hydroelectric units in Ukraine, in Kharkov. But it turned out that their quality leaves much to be desired. As a result, hydroelectric units from North Korea turned out to be of better quality and much cheaper.
          https://www.eg.ru/politics/43737/
  • Al Asad
    Al Asad 13 October 2020 18: 43
    0
    Something is wrong here....
  • Airdefense
    Airdefense 13 October 2020 19: 10
    -3
    Well done North Koreans, there is nothing to eat at home, but rockets are riveted.
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 13 October 2020 19: 36
      +1
      Quote: Airdefense
      Well done North Koreans, there is nothing to eat at home, but rockets are riveted.

      Everything is fine with their food.
      And compared to the chemistry we are stuffed with in Dixie and Magnets (and which is eaten by 90% of the population of the Russian Federation, because citizens have no money for the ABC of Taste), everything is fine.
      1. Airdefense
        Airdefense 13 October 2020 22: 02
        -7
        Yes, it's normal when the grass grows on the lawn. And so for sowing. Koreans and Dixie with Magnets is a pipe dream except for one Chubby.
  • silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 13 October 2020 19: 30
    +3
    The pledge of North Korea's independence is evident ... no democratizers will certainly stick their way here ... comrades are on the right path
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 13 October 2020 19: 43
    -2
    Everything would be fine, but it will be effective to hide the movements and bases of such monsters in North Korea. Yes, and plainly deploy in the event of a massive attack.
    It seems to me that the mine version with a large number of false objects would be more suitable for them than all these pokatushki along the openly empty roads of the DPRK.
  • Igor Litvin
    Igor Litvin 13 October 2020 19: 45
    0
    Quote: 2 level advisor
    except for a double cabin, nothing else, Andrey .. generally looks like a props, too huge a rocket for a PGRK .. or rather, it looks more like a tractor bringing the rocket to the launch table .. the gyrocompass is not even visible anywhere and the paws are frail, what from it PGRK

    How they look! She has a gas generator - hde ?! Or will such a bandura start from the ground from the SPU?
    In general, Korean basins give the impression of some kind of props. Everything is built on the external resemblance to the formidable Soviet missile systems. But the content is alas. When our "Pioneer" took off - the flame was two or three times longer than the rocket itself, the first stage worked out in a minute, the second - ten seconds. And that was enough to accelerate up to 7 km / s. Look at the start of the Korean kirogas - long and very smooth, straight grace for a serif ...
  • Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 13 October 2020 20: 44
    +1
    In the USSR, the PGRK in a similar standard size ("Celina") was abandoned in favor of the lighter "Topol" (because the criterion is the maximum dimensions and maneuverability of the launcher)
  • iouris
    iouris 13 October 2020 21: 12
    0
    Yes, they have practically no room for maneuver. Let them rent.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • WOT Dnepr
    WOT Dnepr 13 October 2020 21: 19
    +2
    Quote: NEXUS
    The mobile platform itself is very much like our tractors for the Yars. Why's that? winked

    Everything from the laws of physics.
  • Old26
    Old26 13 October 2020 23: 10
    +2
    Quote: 2 level advisor
    except for a double cabin, nothing else, Andrey .. generally looks like a props, too huge a rocket for a PGRK .. or rather, it looks more like a tractor bringing the rocket to the launch table .. the gyrocompass is not even visible anywhere and the paws are frail, what from it PGRK

    And this is not a PGRK, as Cyril hastened to christen him. This is an ordinary TUA (transport and installation unit). It does not transport the rocket to the launch pad. The launch pad is behind him. The gyrocompass is not visible. This means that the aiming process will be similar to the Soviet missiles in the early 60s. In addition, the hydraulic cylinders are rather frail. Most likely, the rocket is refueled in a vertical position (even if horizontally - this is the time). So this complex with a missile, which, by the way, has a name - "Hwaseong-16" - does not work for PGRK. How do they not pull the North Korean missile forces to the Strategic Missile Forces? All of these rockets are good for the parade. Nobody knows how far they can actually "fly away". Only theoretical calculations


    Quote: paul3390
    Here it is, the triumph of socialism

    This is not socialism, firstly, but the Juche teaching. Secondly, it is probably very pleasant to live from hand to mouth, and from year to year, from decade to decade. It is unlikely that in reality someone would live on 1 grams of grain a day and almost complete absence of meat ...

    Quote: kot423
    Are you so naive that you are sure that the polygon was 1?

    One, actually. Missile - two. Since dismantling - not a single nuclear test explosion


    Quote: Igor Litvin
    Quote: 2 level advisor
    except for a double cabin, nothing else, Andrey .. generally looks like a props, too huge a rocket for a PGRK .. or rather, it looks more like a tractor bringing the rocket to the launch table .. the gyrocompass is not even visible anywhere and the paws are frail, what from it PGRK

    How they look! She has a gas generator - hde ?! Or will such a bandura start from the ground from the SPU?
    In general, Korean basins give the impression of some kind of props. Everything is built on the external resemblance to the formidable Soviet missile systems. But the content is alas. When our "Pioneer" took off - the flame was two or three times longer than the rocket itself, the first stage worked out in a minute, the second - ten seconds. And that was enough to accelerate up to 7 km / s. Look at the start of the Korean kirogas - long and very smooth, straight grace for a serif ...

    They do not have a PAD and not a gas generator on this rocket for two reasons. In-1 it is liquid, in-2 not in TPK. Namely, for the start from TPK, PAD is used. The first stage of the "Pioneer" really worked for 60 seconds, but with the second you were wrong. She worked for 56 seconds. And the maximum speed is about 6 km / s (MRBMs have never flown at a higher speed)


    Quote: Bersaglieri
    In the USSR, the PGRK in a similar standard size ("Celina") was abandoned in favor of the lighter "Topol" (because the criterion is the maximum dimensions and maneuverability of the launcher)

    In fact, the development of the Topol began 6 years earlier than the RT-23 UTTH in the Celina-2 version
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 13 October 2020 23: 27
    0
    Quote: Lara Croft
    They cope thanks to the PRC, by the way, the "Juche" regime does not hesitate to provide humanitarian aid from the United States ....

    The United States also received humanitarian aid (several cows) from African leaders after the September 11 tower attack. Humanitarian aid is a demonstration and accept it as a demonstration, like a handshake, nothing more.
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 13 October 2020 23: 33
    0
    Quote: Knell Wardenheart
    Everything would be fine, but it will be effective to hide the movements and bases of such monsters in North Korea. Yes, and plainly deploy in the event of a massive attack.

    Do you know everything about the movement and the location of the DPRK ICBMs? Or maybe they are moving in tunnels and they have prepared a lot of underground starting positions?
  • Victorm
    Victorm 13 October 2020 23: 35
    -1
    Quote: Knell Wardenheart
    Everything would be fine, but it will be effective to hide the movements and bases of such monsters in North Korea. Yes, and plainly deploy in the event of a massive attack.
    It seems to me that the mine version with a large number of false objects would be more suitable for them than all these pokatushki along the openly empty roads of the DPRK.

    There is a different philosophy. The Korean peninsula is rock, granite. PGRK are in shelters, not like ours laughing , their task is only to get out of it, turn around and launch. The Iranian missile forces have the same ideology, especially since they borrowed a lot from the North Koreans - wheeled launchers on duty are simply in shelters, there are no areas of duty, they received an order, left, launched and back.
    Mine-type launchers are vulnerable, think for yourself, if the Russian, with their number, and then threatened "Global Strike", then what to say about North Korea.
    Watch a video about Iranians:
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 13 October 2020 23: 37
    0
    Quote: smart fellow
    In 2010, the DPRK purchased 8 Wanshan WS51200 as timber trucks:

    The DPRK bought 4 timber trucks from the PRC and from them (from timber trucks) an 8 axle chassis.
    1. smart fellow
      smart fellow 16 October 2020 18: 39
      0
      Kostadinov (Kostadinov) 13 October 2020 23:37
      Quote: smart fellow
      In 2010, the DPRK purchased 8 Wanshan WS51200 as timber trucks:
      The DPRK bought 4 timber trucks from the PRC and from them (from timber trucks) an 8 axle chassis.

      According to the Kanwa Asian Defense magazine, China has installed eight WS-51200 chassis 16X16 manufactured by Hubei Wanshan Special Vehicles Co. in the DPRK. According to the magazine, the contract was executed by Chinese company CASIC in 2011. Additional deliveries of this chassis are expected.
      Earlier it was reported that in 2010, CASIC contracted an unnamed country to supply its WS-51200 chassis. Its value was estimated at 30 million yuan (4,75 million dollars).
      https://bmpd.livejournal.com/320810.html
      -----
      In 2011, a number of print and electronic publications, citing Japanese sources, published a report that the Chinese authorities had supplied four self-propelled launchers to the DPRK to deploy ballistic missiles.
      https://www.belvpo.com/86336.html/
      -----
      Maybe 8, maybe 4. There are 4 9-axle and 4 11-axle cars in this parade. And for some reason there were no 8-axle chassis with Hwaseong-12.
      The fact that the Koreans can make the chassis themselves is obvious, but the question is about the engines. For WS51200 the Chinese use imported or licensed Cummins KTTA19-C700 turbocharged diesel engine 700 hp (520 kW)
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WS51200
      Can Koreans do that? If not, then 8 cars were bought in China.
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 13 October 2020 23: 49
    +1
    Quote: Airdefense
    Well done North Koreans, there is nothing to eat at home, but rockets are riveted.

    Did you try not to "eat" and rivet rockets? If you can get a candidate for a Nobel. Until now, everyone who rivets rockets always has something to eat.
    But if the missiles are not klepat, then many will no longer need to eat.
  • ZEMCH
    ZEMCH 14 October 2020 01: 06
    +1
    Interestingly, I have one question about how this "miracle of engineering" will ride on the roads. PGKR with Yars will be shorter))
    These movements cannot be called invisible
  • Old26
    Old26 14 October 2020 13: 08
    +2
    Quote: Kostadinov
    Do you know everything about the movement and the location of the DPRK ICBMs? Or maybe they are moving in tunnels and they have prepared a lot of underground starting positions?

    I don't. But a country such as, in particular, the United States, with its huge satellite constellation, knows this. It is impossible to hide this. Underground starting positions? This is something new in the use of rockets. Moving in tunnels is possible, but unlikely. The missile is 27 meters long. The total length of the conveyor with the rocket and the launch pad is 30-33 meters. You can imagine what this wheeled monster will have a turning radius.
    Most likely they are hiding in tunnels from satellites. But the location of these tunnels is in most cases known to the enemy. So it's easy to block these tunnels during D-Day and shortly before H-time.

    In addition, what was shown at the parade can hardly be called a real rocket. Rather, it is a mockup, without engines.

    Quote: Kostadinov
    Did you try not to "eat" and rivet rockets? If you can get a candidate for a Nobel. Until now, everyone who rivets rockets always has something to eat.
    But if the missiles are not klepat, then many will no longer need to eat.

    And look at the materials and find out that the diet of North Koreans contains almost no meat, and the daily norm of cereals (corn, rice, etc.) is 300 g per person. That's it. the people, if not on the verge of starvation, are malnourished, living from hand to mouth, and Eun rivets intercontinental missiles, which have not yet flown anywhere for a distance of more than 1000 km
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 14 October 2020 16: 47
    0
    I don't. But a country such as, in particular, the United States, with its huge satellite constellation, knows this. It is impossible to hide this.

    Of course, the United States can see everything, but their huge satellite constellation and even more huge aircraft destroyed the Serbian army several times in 1999 and in the end it remained almost intact. The Iraqi nuclear program was only considered when Iraq allowed inspections on the ground. The Iranian missiles did not understand where they came from. And so on and so forth.
    Underground starting positions? This is something new in the use of rockets.

    Is the mine also an underground starting position?
    Moving in tunnels is possible, but unlikely. The missile is 27 meters long. The total length of the conveyor with the rocket and the launch pad is 30-33 meters. You can imagine what this wheeled monster will have a turning radius.

    And they can beat the whole underground ring road. This was the idea of ​​the Americans.
    Most likely they are hiding in tunnels from satellites.

    Very good foresight. But besides that, from aviation and all means of reconnaissance.
    But the location of these tunnels is in most cases known to the enemy. So it's easy to block these tunnels during D-Day and shortly before H-time.

    Most of the tunnels (or most likely the exit of the tunnels) are limestone and can be easily blocked, but there will be a minority that is unknown. In addition, blocking tunnels can be unblocked, for example, by exploding.
    And look at the materials and find out that the diet of North Koreans contains almost no meat, and the daily norm of cereals (corn, rice, etc.) is 300 g per person. That's it. the people, if not on the verge of starvation, are malnourished, living from hand to mouth, and Eun rivets intercontinental missiles, which have not yet flown anywhere for a distance of more than 1000 km

    Divide 5 million tons of grain per year by 25 million population and tell me how much you get per day? This is FAO's data.
    The same can be done with 2,5 million tons of seafood.
    The Korean ICBMs did not fly at a distance of more than 1000 km, but they climbed to the top of more than 4500 km.
    And their smaller-radius missiles flew several thousand kilometers.
  • Old26
    Old26 14 October 2020 20: 49
    +1
    Quote: Kostadinov
    Of course, the United States can see everything, but their huge satellite constellation and even more huge aircraft destroyed the Serbian army several times in 1999 and in the end it remained almost intact. The Iraqi nuclear program was only considered when Iraq allowed inspections on the ground. The Iranian missiles did not understand where they came from. And so on and so forth.

    Do not confuse "God's gift" with "scrambled eggs". If you have two neighbors who you do not like and whom you would like to rein in, then whom you will pay more attention to: the goner drunk who arranges "gay-gui" every day or the second, who even drinks and makes noise , then once a week or once every two weeks.
    The DPRK is a bigger thorn in the United States than Serbia. And they follow her much more closely than others. What was 30 years ago, the capabilities of satellite reconnaissance (the same Iraq) and now are heaven and earth. Etc. And it is impossible to build a tunnel in a mountain range without using technology. And if there is technology, there will be unmasking signs of such construction

    Quote: Kostadinov
    Is the mine also an underground starting position?

    Underground. Who wrote this? Are you not:
    Quote: Kostadinov
    Or maybe they beat move in tunnels and they have prepared many underground starting positions?

    How can this be understood, except that they are planning to start from underground tunnels? Do not want to be poked into such bloopers every time - think that you are writing and try to clearly formulate your thoughts

    Quote: Kostadinov
    And they can beat the whole underground ring road. This was the idea of ​​the Americans.

    A ring tunnel for a conveyor with a rocket 3 tens of meters long? What will be the turning radius. And how long they will be built. Moreover, it is unlikely that the DPRK has shields with such a diameter.
    The Americans had such a project - "Track", but there the road was ground with shelters. Underground trenches with railway tracks were planned to be made not in rocky ground, and besides, they were linear, without turns.

    Quote: Kostadinov
    Very good foresight. But besides that, from aviation and all means of reconnaissance.

    They will hide from satellites. And from aviation, hiding in such a tunnel, there is a very high probability that these missiles will be buried in these tunnels.

    Quote: Kostadinov
    Most of the tunnels (or most likely the exit of the tunnels) are limestone and can be easily blocked, but there will be a minority that is unknown. In addition, blocking tunnels can be unblocked, for example, by exploding.

    In order to make an exit from the tunnel, you need to carry out a number of construction work. starting from the explosion of the "tunnel-surface" lintel and ending with the construction of a portal of such a tunnel and the creation of sealed doors. It won't take days, but weeks and months. And all this will not be visible to the OER satellites? Blessed is he who believes

    Quote: Kostadinov
    Divide 5 million tons of grain per year by 25 million population and tell me how much you get per day? This is FAO's data.
    The same can be done with 2,5 million tons of seafood ..

    Well, first, not 1 million tons, but 5 million 4 thousand. Second, it is necessary to divide not by 640 million people, but by 2 million. As a result, an average of 25 g of agricultural products is obtained per day.

    Then you need to subtract from this number in 4,54 million tons of agricultural products
    1. State reserve in case of force majeure
    2. Food for the army of 1,28 million people, the combat-ready reserve of 600 thousand people and the security and police services of 189 thousand people. This is almost 2 million 100 thousand people. And you will not feed them 300-400 g of grain and vegetables. They need to be well fed if Kim wants an army and not a bunch of dead people. Then a huge party-government-economic apparatus. Which is also not used to eating 300 grams a day. So it turns out that the rest survive on 300 g per day. The same ICRC says that more than 10 million people in the DPRK suffer from severe malnutrition.
    From 2,5 million tons of seafood, 600 tons must be deducted for export. The result is an average of 000 grams per day.
    Again, we must take into account the supply of the army, security and law enforcement services, party and other apparatus. Who do not live on these 200 grams of seafood a day. So fern shoots, bell roots and various herbs are eaten. The DPRK produced 358 tons of meat in the past. That is, it turns out 000 kg per year or 14 grams per day. Again, we must take into account the army and other apparatus. It doesn't seem like Chubby Eun is eating 40 grams of cereals, 300 grams of fish and 200 grams of meat per day.

    Quote: Kostadinov
    The Korean ICBMs did not fly at a distance of more than 1000 km, but they climbed to the top of more than 4500 km.
    And their smaller-radius missiles flew several thousand kilometers.

    No need to spank nonsense (it hurts). Not a single North Korean missile has flown at a range above 1000 km, although the performance characteristics can indicate at least 13000 km, at least 15. They do not have KIK ships to control flights to the maximum range. Therefore, they start up along high-altitude trajectories, theoretically calculating
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 14 October 2020 23: 39
    0
    The DPRK is a bigger thorn in the United States than Serbia. And they follow her much more closely than others.

    They fought with Serbia for more than two months, then they watched it more closely, while the Serbian army did not hide in the tunnels. American intelligence did not report a single missile launch by the DPRK in advance. She did not indicate a single object of the DPRK nuclear complex.
    What was 30 years ago, the capabilities of satellite reconnaissance (the same Iraq) and now are heaven and earth.

    Serbia was bombed 20 years ago - somewhere in the middle between heaven and earth. The last missile launch from the DPRK submarine hit in this year - this is already above the sky, and the United States did not notice any warning. ...
    And it is impossible to build a tunnel in a mountain range without using technology. And if there is technology, there will be unmasking signs of such construction

    There will always be de-masking signs that something is being done somewhere, but what exactly and where was done can only be a guess at coffee. Get out of the tunnels, real and false, you can do as much and anywhere.
    How can this be understood, except that they are planning to start from underground tunnels?

    Underground tunnels link underground starting positions (mines). The Americans had such a project for the deployment of MX ICBMs.
    In order to make an exit from the tunnel, you need to carry out a number of construction work. starting from the explosion of the "tunnel-surface" lintel and ending with the construction of a portal of such a tunnel and the creation of sealed doors. It won't take days, but weeks and months. And all this will not be visible to the OER satellites? Blessed is he who believes

    I am an atheist and therefore not blessed. A temporary exit from a blind tunnel or mine, if necessary, can be done very quickly. See the American project for placing MX ICBMs in such mines.
    Well, first, not 1 million tons, but 5 million 4 thousand. Second, it is necessary to divide not by 640 million people, but by 2 million. As a result, an average of 25 g of agricultural products is obtained per day.

    1 grams per day is 490% more than 60 grams.
    2. All the same, 5,4 million tons, not 4,6. And not all agricultural products, but only grain.
    Then you need to subtract from this number in 4,54 million tons of agricultural products
    1. State reserve in case of force majeure

    The state reserve only needs to be renewed because it already exists and has always been hit.
    2. Food for the army of 1,28 million people, the combat-ready reserve of 600 thousand people and the security and police services of 189 thousand people. This is almost 2 million 100 thousand people. And you will not feed them 300-400 g of grain and vegetables.

    Again, something is wrong with math. Not 300-400, but 490 or more, and not cereals and vegetables, but only cereals. Vegetables, meat and ribu separately. In addition, small children and old people need less than adult men. If you decrease by 50 grams (to 440) for 10 million dependents, then for 2 million soldiers there will be 250 grams more per day. So no one has to see 300 grams per day.
    From 2,5 million tons of seafood, 600 tons must be deducted for export.

    No need to vichitat because, thanks to the UN sanction, the export of seafood has been banned. Of course, there is some kind of export to bypass the sanctions, but about 10% of the previous export remained. In addition, there is also the import of agricultural products.
    A ring tunnel for a conveyor with a rocket 3 tens of meters long? What will be the turning radius. And how long they will be built. Moreover, it is unlikely that the DPRK has shields with such a diameter.

    I wonder how to build railway tunnels. And what is the length of the railway composition, how do they turn there? A large turning radius is easier to make than a small turning radius for all roads and tunnels.
    The Americans had such a project - "Track", but there the road was ground with shelters. Underground trenches with railway tracks were planned to be made not in rocky ground, and besides, they were linear, without turns.

    Without any twists and turns? Was everything in one line? There have been many projects for the placement of MX, including in ground and underground ukritii, and in tunnels deep underground with deaf mines and on diesel-electric submarines and so on.
    Quote: Old26
    No need to spank nonsense (it hurts). Not a single North Korean missile has flown over a distance of 1000 km, although in the performance characteristics they can indicate at least 13000 km, at least 15. They do not have KIK ships to control flights to the maximum range. Therefore, they start up along high-altitude trajectories, theoretically calculating

    The Hwaseong-15 ICBM did not fly at a range, but only at over 4500 km. But the Hwaseong-12 medium-range missile flew on August 29, 2017 at a range of 2700 km over Hokkaido. We are not considering satellite carrier rockets here. So more than one North Korean missile flew over 1000 km.
  • Old26
    Old26 15 October 2020 21: 20
    +1
    [quote = Simargl] It can be of any design and stuck anywhere. Up to external support. [/ Quote]
    It is located either sideways in front of the chassis or in front of the bumper beam. In addition, there must be a so-called. "the upper aiming device. It is not visible anywhere at all. So this is not a PGRK, but an ordinary TUA which also has a launch pad.

    [quote = Kostadinov] [quote] The DPRK is a big thorn in the US than Serbia. And they follow her much more closely than others. [/ Quote]
    They fought with Serbia for more than two months, then they watched it more closely, while the Serbian army did not hide in the tunnels. American intelligence did not report a single missile launch by the DPRK in advance. She did not indicate a single object of the DPRK nuclear complex. [/ quote]
    And they won't. As we do not report. Because Eun spits on all the rules and regulations and shoots when he wants and when he wants. But this cannot last forever. Someday a spent stage or a BG simulator will collapse on residential areas of a city near neighbors or hit by a ship in the ocean. Then Eun's jokes will end.
    All nuclear facilities of the DPRK are known. And the same Americans often publish photographs of these objects. And when the cooling tower of the reactor in Yongbyon was blown up, so were the photos and videos taken from the ground (from a hill)

    [quote = Kostadinov] [quote] What was 30 years ago, the capabilities of satellite intelligence (the same Iraq) and now is heaven and earth. [/ quote]
    Serbia was bombed 20 years ago - somewhere in the middle between heaven and earth. The last missile launch from the DPRK submarine hit in this year - this is already above the sky, and the United States did not notice any warning. [/ quote]
    And what to do with the bombing of Serbia and the launch of a missile from a North Korean submarine?

    [quote = Kostadinov] [quote] And it is impossible to build a tunnel in a mountain range without using technology. And if there is equipment, there will be unmasking signs of such construction [/ quote]
    There will always be de-masking signs that something is being done somewhere, but what exactly and where was done can only be a guess at coffee. Get out of the tunnels, real and false, you can do as much and anywhere.
    Respected. Modern satellites of opto-electronic reconnaissance give a resolution of 15 cm for a detailed survey. For an overview survey, about 40 cm. These satellites are launched in pairs and pass over the same area of ​​the surface at intervals of several hours. In this case, shooting not only in nadir, but also at an angle. The profile of the tunnel mouth suggests what it is intended for. If it is 4-5 meters in diameter, it can be warehouses. If the diameter is 8-10 meters, then only to hide "rocket carriers" there. Plus, there are Earth remote sensing satellites that shoot in several spectral zones. it is generally difficult to hide something there.
    In addition, making as many real and false exits as you like in the absence of large-diameter tunneling shields in the DPRK means only slave labor of people. Plus, it's easier to spend a few extra ammo and destroy the same false exits. To guarantee

    [quote = Kostadinov] [quote] How can you understand this, except that they are planning to start from underground tunnels? [/ quote]
    Underground tunnels link underground starting positions (mines). The Americans had such a project for the deployment of MX ICBMs. [/ Quote].
    Underground tunnels link underground launch sites (mines)? Masterpiece. But how are you going to lift about 25-30 meter rocket from the shaft to a vertical position? She is not rubber, does not bend ???
    And the Americans did not have such projects. No need to invent.
    • There was Project "Track" - a concrete track on the surface with a lot of cover for the transporter with the rocket. It was planned to build several such tracks, but the price turned out to be monstrous.
    • There was a project "Trench". When a trench several kilometers long was dug in the ground, railway tracks were laid, a rocket was placed on the conveyor, the trench was closed with fairly light plates. The rocket transporter was supposed to move along the trench. Upon receipt of the order, the rocket rose to a vertical position, breaking through the roof of the trench with a special device
    • There was a project with one real and several spare (false) mines. At a time when there were no Soviet satellites overhead, the rocket had to be removed from the silo and placed in another. The project was closed because under the SALT-2 agreement, it was forbidden to have such false mines.
    • There was a project to create a BZHRK with an MX missile. The rolling stock was created. But financial difficulties arose and the project was closed.
    • A classic project for the placement of the MX was implemented - in the silo

    [quote = Kostadinov] [quote] In order to make an exit from the tunnel, you need to carry out a number of construction work. starting from the explosion of the "tunnel-surface" lintel and ending with the construction of a portal of such a tunnel and the creation of sealed doors. It won't take days, but weeks and months. And all this will not be visible to the OER satellites? Blessed is he who believes [/ quote]
    I am an atheist and therefore not blessed. A temporary exit from a blind tunnel or mine, if necessary, can be done very quickly. See the American project for the deployment of MX ICBMs in such mines. [/ Quote]
    Can. blow up the jumper that prevents the exit from such a blind tunnel. Just what it will result in. No one can guarantee that the roof of the tunnel will not collapse with such an explosion. And the placement of MX in remote mines - the project was recognized as unrealizable at the paper stage and no one seriously considered it

    [quote = Kostadinov] [quote] Well, first, not 1 million tons, but 5 million 4 thousand. Second, it is necessary to divide not by 640 million people, but by 2 million. As a result, an average of 25 g of agricultural products per day is obtained. [/ Quote]
    1 grams per day is 490% more than 60 grams.
    2. All the same, 5,4 million tons, not 4,6. And not all agricultural products, but only grain.
    [quote] Then you need to subtract from this number in 4,54 million tons of agricultural products
    1. State reserve in case of force majeure [/ quote]
    The state reserve only needs to be renewed because it already exists and has always been hit.
    [quote] 2. Food for the army of 1,28 million people, a combat-ready reserve of 600 thousand people and security and police services of 189 thousand people. This is almost 2 million 100 thousand people. And you won't feed them 300-400 g of grain and vegetables. [/ Quote]
    Again, something is wrong with math. Not 300-400, but 490 or more, and not cereals and vegetables, but only cereals. Vegetables, meat and ribu separately. In addition, small children and old people need less than adult men. If you decrease by 50 grams (to 440) for 10 million dependents, then for 2 million soldiers there will be 250 grams more per day. So no one has to see 300 grams per day.
    [Quote] From 2,5 million tons of seafood, you need to subtract 600 tons that are exported.
    [/ Quote]
    No need to vichitat because, thanks to the UN sanction, the export of seafood has been banned. Of course, there is some kind of export to bypass the sanctions, but about 10% of the previous export remained. In addition, there is also the import of agricultural products. [/ Quote]
    I will not argue with you. I came across exactly the numbers that I voiced, and the same meat and cereals, broken down by type. As for the export of seafood, according to official data, in 2019, the DPRK exported 24% of all seafood caught. Let's leave this question open. I am confident in my numbers, you in yours. Neither I nor you can convince me for certain ... Therefore, I propose to close this topic of food in a no-man's situation
  • Old26
    Old26 15 October 2020 21: 21
    0
    Quote: Kostadinov
    A ring tunnel for a conveyor with a rocket 3 tens of meters long? What will be the turning radius. And how long they will be built. Moreover, it is unlikely that the DPRK has shields with such a diameter.

    I wonder how to build railway tunnels. And what is the length of the railway composition, how do they turn there? A large turning radius is easier to make than a small turning radius for all roads and tunnels.

    Tunnels are built using tunneling shields. The so-called tunnel boring complex. Length can be any Diameter - also any. starting from 3 meters and ending with 17 meters. But tunnel boring complexes with diameters starting from 8 meters are piece goods. Only a few countries have them. Our largest has a diameter of 10 meters and is intended for laying double-track metro tunnels. Turns in tunnels have such a huge turning radius, and in most cases they are avoided. Considering that you are talking about tunnels in rock massifs, the penetration rate will be about 50-80 cm / hour. Maximum up to 10 meters per day. The diameter of such a ring will be many hundreds of meters if it is not measured in kilometers. And the larger the tunnel shield diameter and its length, the more difficult it is to make such a turn.
    The easiest way is to make a generally right angle turn, but no transporter will turn around there. Moreover, with an almost 30-meter rocket

    Quote: Kostadinov
    The Americans had such a project - "Track", but there the road was ground with shelters. Underground trenches with railway tracks were planned to be made not in rocky ground, and besides, they were linear, without turns.

    Without any twists and turns? Was everything in one line? There have been many projects for the placement of MX, including in ground and underground ukritii, and in tunnels deep underground with deaf mines and on diesel-electric submarines and so on.

    Above, I wrote about more or less real projects that could be implemented. Some of them, such as deep tunnels with deaf mines, were generally delusional. By the way, at the time of the creation of the MX, the Americans had no diesel-electric boats for a couple of decades. In addition, the MX was not intended for launching from under the water ...

    Quote: Kostadinov
    No need to spank nonsense (it hurts). Not a single North Korean missile has flown over a distance of 1000 km, although in the performance characteristics they can indicate at least 13000 km, at least 15. They do not have KIK ships to control flights to the maximum range. Therefore, they start up along high-altitude trajectories, theoretically calculating

    The Hwaseong-15 ICBM did not fly at a range, but only at over 4500 km. But the Hwaseong-12 medium-range missile flew on August 29, 2017 at a range of 2700 km over Hokkaido. We are not considering satellite carrier rockets here. So more than one North Korean missile flew over 1000 km.

    As for Hwaseong 12, I must apologize to you. This is really the only North Korean rocket that has twice flown over 1000 km. I was wrong with it.
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 16 October 2020 12: 25
    0
    All nuclear facilities of the DPRK are known. And the same Americans often publish photographs of these objects. And when the cooling tower of the reactor in Yongbyon was blown up, so were the photos and videos taken from the ground (from a hill)

    Yongbyon Unity is a nuclear facility in the DPRK about which there is confirmed information in the world. It was declared by the Koreans themselves when they signed a non-proliferation treaty and then beat the inspectors from MAAE there. There is only speculation about all other objects. The Americans themselves claim that they did not know in advance about the nuclear test in the DPRK. The same goes for launching combat missiles. But the United States somehow managed to miss the launch time of the Unha rocket with a satellite.
    The North Koreans imitated the dismantling of the upper stage and the United States announced that the launch would be in a few days, but it took place in a few hours.
    Of course, the USA has the best satellites with the best cameras and takes pictures from all angles and in all spectra. But apparently they can also be deceived.
    More or less real projects that could be implemented. Some of them, such as deep tunnels with deaf mines, were generally delusional.

    He was not rejected as delusional and unrealizable. There is no need to offend the Americans, they, in principle, do not consider crazy projects. They rejected it because they signed an agreement with the USSR, then the USSR collapsed and the need disappeared.
    By the way, at the time of the creation of the MX, the Americans had no diesel-electric boats for a couple of decades. In addition, the MX was not intended for launching from under the water ...

    Despite this, they wanted to use the old boats for conservation. Since there were a lot of them. They were supposed to transport 4 missiles in containers in a horizontal position (like the German project for the FAU-2).
    The so-called tunnel boring complex. Length can be any Diameter - also any. starting from 3 meters and ending with 17 meters. But tunnel boring complexes with diameters starting from 8 meters are piece goods. Only a few countries have them. Our largest has a diameter of 10 meters and is intended for laying double-track metro tunnels.

    Thanks for the info! The DPRK has two-track metro tunnels with a very large diameter. I don’t know what complex (Russian, Chinese or proprietary) they were made and are still doing today, but one or more of these complexes must be beat. Here we can add that back in 1951, in less than a year, the North Koreans and the Chinese made 1250 kilometers of tunnels (more than 2 million cubic meters) in rock massifs only by manual labor. Almost 70 years have passed since that time. In addition, there is a natural cave in the mountains.
    Taking into account that you are talking about tunnels in rock massifs, the penetration rate will be about 50-80 cm / hour. Maximum up to 10 meters per day. The diameter of such a ring will be many hundreds of meters if it is not measured in kilometers.

    Thanks for this information too! Well, let it be only 10 meters per day, although 0,8 meters in 24 hours is closer to 20 meters. This means 3,6 kilometers per year. If they started in 1960 in 60 years with only one tunneling complex (of course, it was updated), more than 200 kilometers of tunnels with a very large diameter have already been made.
  • Old26
    Old26 16 October 2020 14: 52
    +2
    Quote: Kostadinov
    All nuclear facilities of the DPRK are known. And the same Americans often publish photographs of these objects. And when the cooling tower of the reactor in Yongbyon was blown up, so were the photos and videos taken from the ground (from a hill)

    Yongbyon Unity is a nuclear facility in the DPRK about which there is confirmed information in the world. It was declared by the Koreans themselves when they signed a non-proliferation treaty and then beat the inspectors from MAAE there. There is only speculation about all other objects. The Americans themselves claim that they did not know in advance about the nuclear test in the DPRK. The same goes for launching combat missiles. But the United States somehow managed to miss the launch time of the Unha rocket with a satellite.
    The North Koreans imitated the dismantling of the upper stage and the United States announced that the launch would be in a few days, but it took place in a few hours.

    In addition to the reactor in Yongbyon, the Americans voiced the locations of other enterprises of the nuclear complex. Of course, what I came across was not a 100% overview of North Korea's nuclear facilities, but nevertheless, IMHO the information was pretty complete. They really declared the reactor. But there was information about the construction sites of more powerful reactors that were not built.
    Nobody in the world knows about North Korean nuclear and missile tests. And if test nuclear explosions, or rather their time, is never announced by anyone in advance, there can only be intelligence information about the preparation of tests that cannot be hidden (the DPRK reported one of the tests to the PRC almost 20 minutes before the tests themselves).
    As for the missile tests, of course the Koreans do not report them. The very fact of preparation cannot be hidden. especially when it comes to launches from the eastern or western ranges. There, the missiles are installed on the launch pad. The very fact of the installation is impossible to hide, and the time is not predictable. How many cases have there been when the rocket is on the table (at least the same Americans or us), the preparation is fixed, and a few seconds before T = 0, the automation blocks the launch, and the transfer takes place.
    Satellites are hard to fool. They record the very fact of preparation, it cannot be hidden, but not the time of a specific launch.

    Quote: Kostadinov

    More or less real projects that could be implemented. Some of them, such as deep tunnels with deaf mines, were generally delusional.

    He was not rejected as delusional and unrealizable. There is no need to offend the Americans, they, in principle, do not consider crazy projects. They rejected it because they signed an agreement with the USSR, then the USSR collapsed and the need disappeared.

    Alas, this crazy idea of ​​a tunnel and a deaf mine - it was in the minds not only of Americans, but also in our country. But precisely because of the delusional nature of the idea itself (it is very difficult to implement technically - it was abandoned. What to do, crazy ideas come to everyone's mind.
    I had a friend who worked at the Nikolaev shipyard in the early 80s. So he told about one such crazy idea. Someone came up with the idea to create a submarine aircraft carrier. A boat 200-300 meters long, with a hull diameter of almost 30-40 meters at which the side platforms were supposed to fall off to the side, vertical take-off and landing planes rolled out onto them, started and struck at the foe. And after all, the man offered it in all seriousness.

    Quote: Kostadinov
    By the way, at the time of the creation of the MX, the Americans had no diesel-electric boats for a couple of decades. In addition, the MX was not intended for launching from under the water ...

    Despite this, they wanted to use the old boats for conservation. Since there were a lot of them. They were supposed to transport 4 missiles in containers in a horizontal position (like the German project for the FAU-2).

    The thing is that many of these boats were on storage and in reserve only in the 50s. In principle, the most massive post-war series of boats "Tench" served EMNIP until the end of the 70s. then half of them were sold, half (15 units) were written off. All the rest - boats of the "Teng" and "Barbek" type were produced in the amount of 6 and 3 copies, respectively. Boats 60-90 meters long were supposed to carry 4 containers almost 25-30 meters long and 3 meters in diameter on themselves? In addition, it is one thing to carry 4 fourteen-ton missiles in containers, and quite another - 4 almost 90-ton missiles.
    Sorry, but IMHO this is pure fake. There was no need for them to take such a step. They already had enough nuclear submarines with ballistic missiles - 41 pieces to do such an incomprehensible thing. And MX was created to replace the GROUND component. And under the treaties, the number of missiles and the number of warheads on submarines was very clearly defined.

    Quote: Kostadinov
    The so-called tunnel boring complex. Length can be any Diameter - also any. starting from 3 meters and ending with 17 meters. But tunnel boring complexes with diameters starting from 8 meters are piece goods. Only a few countries have them. Our largest has a diameter of 10 meters and is intended for laying double-track metro tunnels.

    Thanks for the info! The DPRK has two-track metro tunnels with a very large diameter. I don’t know what complex (Russian, Chinese or proprietary) they were made and are still doing today, but one or more of these complexes must be beat. Here we can add that back in 1951, in less than a year, the North Koreans and the Chinese made 1250 kilometers of tunnels (more than 2 million cubic meters) in rock massifs only by manual labor. Almost 70 years have passed since that time. In addition, there is a natural cave in the mountains.


    Large diameter tunnel boring shields (tunnel boring complexes) were produced by EMNIP only in Germany and somewhere in Scandinavia, it seems in Sweden in piece quantities. Most likely the North Koreans used shields with a diameter of 4-5 meters for tunneling, and then destroyed the lintel of two adjacent tunnels
    Making 1250 km of tunnels by hand is possible if you have inexhaustible human resources and slave labor. Then, what are these tunnels. It is one thing if you need to make a tunnel where you can hide yourself, and it is quite another thing now, when you need to make tunnels of huge diameter, reinforced with concrete with all communications: electricity, air, to hide missile systems.
    By the way, there is some discrepancy with the numbers. 1250 km long and 2 cubic meters of volume somehow "Do not fit". An elementary calculation shows that if we divide the volume of 000 million cubic meters (even 000 million cubic meters) by the length of 2 km (2,5 m), then we get the cross-sectional area of ​​the tunnel from 1250 sq. M. meters (with a volume of 1250 million cubic meters) d000 1,6 sq. meters (with a volume of 2 million cubic meters). Next, we just calculate the diameter of the tunnel. It turns out from 0 meters to 2 meters ... Somewhere there is an error in the data

    Quote: Kostadinov
    Taking into account that you are talking about tunnels in rock massifs, the penetration rate will be about 50-80 cm / hour. Maximum up to 10 meters per day. The diameter of such a ring will be many hundreds of meters if it is not measured in kilometers.

    Thanks for this information too! Well, let it be only 10 meters per day, although 0,8 meters in 24 hours is closer to 20 meters. This means 3,6 kilometers per year. If they started in 1960 in 60 years with only one tunneling complex (of course, it was updated), more than 200 kilometers of tunnels with a very large diameter have already been made.

    This is possible only if the complex operates around the clock. Which almost never happens (unless of course you want to ditch it). Usually 8, maximum 10 hours. so it's worth counting the numbers. In addition, large-diameter complexes appeared somewhere in the late 80s.
    And as an example of the "ditching" of the complex, I can give an example, when in our Soviet Union the complex was being written off, and it was decided to accelerate it to the maximum in clay soils. There, the rate of penetration usually ranges from 300 to 500 meters, and on this complex, knowing that it would be written off, it was dispersed to 1200 meters per day. And ditched, of course
  • pleschakovai
    pleschakovai 17 October 2020 20: 48
    -1
    Well done guys, well done Kim Jong-un, ordinary Russians and villagers are always with you !!! And let you shake and pile in your pants! It's okay, it's okay !!!