Military Review

Roscosmos will spend more than 4 billion rubles on the creation of a nuclear space tug

149
Roscosmos will spend more than 4 billion rubles on the creation of a nuclear space tug

Roskosmos plans to spend up to 4,2 billion rubles on the creation of a preliminary design of a nuclear tug for flights to other planets of the solar system. The funds will be allocated as part of the Nuclon development work. This is evidenced by the data of the public procurement portal.


According to the schedule of the state corporation, this year 100 million rubles will be allocated for work, next year, in 2021, Roscosmos plans to attract already 900 million rubles for the project, in 2022 - 1,24 billion and 1,9 billion in subsequent years.

Currently, the state corporation is working on the creation of a transport and energy module (TEM) based on a nuclear power plant of a megawatt class. The technical complex for the preparation of satellites with TEM is planned to be built at the Vostochny cosmodrome with its commissioning in 2030.

Earlier, the executive director of Roskosmos for promising programs and science, Alexander Bloshenko, said that according to plans, in 2030 the nuclear space tug should go on a long flight to one of Jupiter's satellites. At the same time, he stressed that this will be a full-fledged scientific expedition, and not a test flight.

According to the flight program, the tug with a docked payload module will first go to the Moon, then to Venus, and then to the satellite of Jupiter, where it will begin research. On the way, the tug will leave two satellites in the orbits of the Moon and Venus.

Bloshenko explained that the design of the tug will be a transport and energy module with an open architecture. The megawatt-class nuclear reactor installed on it will provide the tug with energy for the transportation of various payloads for a long time.
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  1. Livonetc
    Livonetc 12 October 2020 10: 25
    0
    Who understands, 4.2 billion rubles for such an advance project is this normal?
    "A pre-project is a set of works that are performed before carrying out experimental design work with the aim of a feasibility study of the feasibility of product development and ways of its creation, production and operation."
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 12 October 2020 10: 30
      +9
      4,2 billion rubles seems to be a lot, 55 million dollars is not enough for such a project.
      The main question is whether RESULT.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 12 October 2020 10: 35
        -2
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        The main question is whether there will be a RESULT.

        Question yes

        And on the space tug, on the VO, the article is already the second, or even the third in a row ...
        1. astepanov
          astepanov 12 October 2020 11: 27
          +1
          Quote: Insurgent
          article is already the second, or even the third in a row ...

          ... and with the same absurdities:
          Installed on it a megawatt class nuclear reactor
          There, megawatts is the planned output electric power supplied to the ion thrusters, and the reactor power, respectively, is not less than three megawatts.
          1. hrych
            hrych 12 October 2020 12: 19
            -9
            Quote: astepanov
            am megawatt - .... the power supplied to the ion thrusters, and the reactor power, respectively, is not less than three megawatts.

            What for? If you only power the battle laser wassat So again, nuclear scientists directly like a nuclear laser piled ... For systems of stabilization, control, etc., dead solar batteries and a minuscule from the reactor are enough when the Sun closes Jupiter laughing ... Where do you want to put your extra 2 megawatts?
            The device is 5 times smaller than the Nuclon, practically assembled and funds are allocated for testing it in orbit. A carrier rocket costs money, etc.
            1. astepanov
              astepanov 12 October 2020 12: 27
              14
              What other laser? Do you know how a nuclear power plant works, and indeed any heat engine? To obtain a megawatt of electrical power, you need to have at least three megawatts of reactor thermal power, and dispose of two megawatts in refrigerators. The second law of thermodynamics - have you heard of this? Even the State Duma will not be able to abolish it. By the way, google and find it; the planned power of the reactor (thermal) is not even 3, but 3,8 MW.
              1. hrych
                hrych 12 October 2020 12: 57
                -8
                Comrade, the power of the YSU or what the generator produces is determined by the amount of energy received at the output. If a megawatt installation is declared, then it produces a megawatt and not a kilowatt more laughing If you want to argue on such a concept as efficiency, then it exceeds 40% for YSU. And in the English-speaking segment there is an efficiency of up to 48%. Those. almost half. Probably, they will try to make the space reactor more perfect than usual.
                1. astepanov
                  astepanov 12 October 2020 14: 41
                  +1
                  Quote: hrych
                  Comrade, the power of the YSU or what the generator produces is determined by the amount of energy received at the output. If a megawatt installation is declared, then it produces a megawatt and not a kilowatt more

                  What are you carrying? The article reads "Reactor of a megawatt class". It is the reactor, not from the turbine shaft or from the generator. Your urge to say the last word by all means looks ridiculous.
                  Quote: hrych
                  If you want to argue on such a concept as efficiency, then it exceeds 40% for YSU. And in the English-speaking segment there is an efficiency of up to 48%. Those. almost half. Probably, they will try to make the space reactor more perfect than usual.
                  You can exercise as much as you like. Here is a link for you - read: more than 3 kW of thermal power from the reactor https://docplayer.ru/28455975-Bystryy-gazoohlazhdaemyy-reaktor-dlya-kosmicheskoy-yaedu-megavattnogo-klassa.html And one MW of electrical power. Ion engines ID-500 as a prototype. Their electrical power is up to 35 kW with an efficiency of 76%.
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 12 October 2020 15: 12
                    -5
                    According to the documents, your engine on the car has what it gives out, and not what it heats up and loses wassat
                    Quote: astepanov
                    What are you carrying?

                    It's the opposite. The power is exactly as much as the machine gives out. Those. work performed. In the case of YSU, this is a turbine, etc.
                    1. astepanov
                      astepanov 12 October 2020 15: 16
                      +6
                      Quote: hrych
                      And how much the reactor heats up - this is measured in temperature

                      Tell someone that heat output is measured in temperature. For example, to schoolchildren who have not yet begun to study the basics of physics. Quit the flood and show the denseness.
                      1. hrych
                        hrych 12 October 2020 15: 26
                        -6
                        Well, count how much your car's gasoline engine heated up and write it down in the TCP wassat This is an electric generator, not a heater. Ferstein? ELECTRIC GENERATOR. If it is a kilowatt, then it feeds no more than a kilowatt of electrical devices. If it is a megawatt, then it powers the corresponding electrical appliances, including ion engines wassat Divide 100% efficiency by 3,8 So what? 26% Does this reactor have such an efficiency? It's easy to shoot the chief designer.
                      2. Kernel operator
                        Kernel operator 12 October 2020 17: 18
                        +8
                        Dear Hrych! I have always liked your comments in terms of both content and objectivity. But in this case, you are clearly wrong, and comrade astepanov speaks correct, physics-based things. This is what I am saying as a leading engineer for the management of a nuclear reactor.
                      3. vargo
                        vargo 12 October 2020 17: 26
                        0
                        If you pay attention to VO comments like trololo or inadequacy is very often accompanied by emoticons. A simple way to spot 90% of trolls who don't count on adequate conversation. Just take a look at the comments of "hrycha" everything will become clear
                      4. hrych
                        hrych 12 October 2020 17: 49
                        -1
                        Are you an arbiter here? Contact the site managers, let them remove the ability to put emoticons. wassat Maybe you'd better write something wise about electric carswassat That there is an indicator of the power of an electric generator, etc.
                    2. hrych
                      hrych 12 October 2020 17: 46
                      0
                      You can control a nuclear power plant, but the power of an electric generator is considered, whether it is nuclear or not. This is an electric generator, a power plant, and not just something. If it delivers megawatt power to power electric rocket engines and so on in trifles, why the hell is there to bother with heat. YSU is a machine in which the reactor itself is only a component part and this machine is designed to generate electricity, not heat, etc.
                    3. The comment was deleted.
                  2. hrych
                    hrych 12 October 2020 18: 15
                    +3
                    I accept. I read it carefully. I was wrong drinks
                2. astepanov
                  astepanov 12 October 2020 17: 43
                  +4
                  You are talking nonsense again. The reactors of Novovoronezh NPP have an efficiency from 25,5% for VVR-210 to 37,9% for VVR-1300, and on average for 6 reactor models - 31,0%. Where is the efficiency under 50%, which you wrote about? Whom will you shoot? And at the reactor of the space transport system, firstly, the temperature at the inlet to the refrigerator (the coolant is bismuth) is higher, and secondly, the energy consumption for its own needs is higher (for example, for spraying bismuth melt, for pumping through small-section pipelines). If you don't know the material, don't flood and fantasize.
                3. hrych
                  hrych 12 October 2020 18: 11
                  +2
                  Everything, I agree. There is a hole in the old woman. drinks
                  Didn't read your comments carefully, got distracted by Karabakh wassat
                4. Mityay65
                  Mityay65 12 October 2020 19: 21
                  +2
                  Is there a bismuth out there?
                  Fast neutron gas reactor. The coolant is xenon-helium.
                  Lightweight and compact.
                  И Yes , a thing almost from a fantastic story.
                5. astepanov
                  astepanov 13 October 2020 12: 29
                  +1
                  Quote: Mityai65
                  Is there a bismuth out there?

                  Bismuth in the secondary cooling circuit. A drip refrigerator-emitter is the highlight of the installation.
                6. A009
                  A009 13 October 2020 15: 11
                  -1
                  There is no drip fridge, and if you claim that you understand the topic, then such errors clearly give you away.
                  Quote: A009

                  A009 (Andrey)
                  24 September 2020 10: 14
                  +5
                  The concept has been greatly simplified. (they refused from the drip radiators mentioned in the article. In the photo and video, the radiating panels), they also abandoned the turbines (they could not achieve due reliability for a 10-year service life without maintenance with monstrous operating parameters, until they could not) they were replaced with used thermoelectric generators. with a new technological base
                  It is these "simplifications" (because, in fact, also the cutting edge of science) that give reason to hope for success

                  ... and yes, there is a gas-cooled reactor
                7. astepanov
                  astepanov 13 October 2020 20: 28
                  +1
                  No, I do not understand the topic - or rather, I heard something, I can judge something as a techie. I have not heard of the rejection of drip radiators. But won't this lead to an increase in the size of the radiators?
                8. Mityay65
                  Mityay65 13 October 2020 21: 38
                  +1
                  The products are actually 2. One from the Moscow Region, the second from Roscosmos. I wrote about this below slipped.
                  The first from MO is made by Avangard, where emitting radiators, as in the video, abandoned drip cooling.
                  The second is TEM Nuclon from Roscosmos, the avan project is not ready yet. Perhaps they will decide to put a drip, this is logical as the next step.
    2. Nikolai Korovin
      Nikolai Korovin 12 October 2020 17: 45
      +1
      A student's nightmare before the heat engineering exam: - I had a kilocalorie again.
    3. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 13 October 2020 12: 16
      0
      And the kilojoule ran after her and shouted that she, the old club, was illegal here, because he changed it, so he has a piece of paper!
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 12 October 2020 13: 21
    0
    "Megawatt class" means the output power in megawatts, not necessarily 1 MW.
    1. astepanov
      astepanov 12 October 2020 14: 43
      +3
      No
      Quote: Narak-zempo
      "Megawatt class" means the output power in megawatts, not necessarily 1 MW.

      No, this means 1 MW of electrical power. Literature on technical requirements for installation is complete, search and do not need to fantasize.
  • Alexey Sommer
    Alexey Sommer 12 October 2020 14: 09
    +1
    Hi Aleksey!
    As I read, it is not. The reactor is exactly 1mW. 4 ion engines use 200 kW of electricity. Four ID 50 (the brand of engines have already been created and tested), which means 50 kW.
    I can of course be mistaken. hi
    1. astepanov
      astepanov 12 October 2020 14: 48
      +4
      We are looking for "Transport and energy module". There are characteristics. 3,8 MW thermal power of the reactor, 1 MW - electric power. The ID-500 engines of 35 kW each are taken as a basis, but which ones will be installed in reality is still unknown. I have not found anything on the web about this.
      1. Alexey Sommer
        Alexey Sommer 12 October 2020 14: 52
        +2
        Looks like you're right.
        I can't find I watched a video of one smart guy on YouTube. He spoke in detail. For some reason, 1MW has crashed into my memory. He probably meant electrical power.
      2. Kernel operator
        Kernel operator 12 October 2020 17: 37
        0
        This means that the output power of the generator of this installation at the terminals is 1MW = 1000kW. You write that 4 ID-500 35 kW each will be installed, this is 140 kW of consumed electrical power, 1000-140 = 860 kW ... 860 kW for own needs of both the nuclear power plant and the entire ship as a whole, this is a lot and not plausible. If we assume that 35 kW is the useful power of the ID-500, then the efficiency of such an engine is about 7% ... In general, there is a catch: either in my thoughts or in the available information.
        1. Nikolai Korovin
          Nikolai Korovin 12 October 2020 17: 48
          0
          Something rather weak - 35 kW, although, of course, the ion engine cannot develop very high power. Will slowly accelerate and slow down.
  • Roman070280
    Roman070280 12 October 2020 10: 38
    -10 qualifying.
    Of course .. as a result, 4,2 billion. will be spent ..
    As planned ..
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 12 October 2020 10: 46
    -17 qualifying.
    ... up to 4,2 billion rubles for the creation of a preliminary design of a nuclear tug for flights to other planets of the solar system.

    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    The main question is whether there will be a RESULT.

    So far, no one has managed to milk any milk from goat or to cut wool from a pig.
    When I read such messages, contradictions simply tear my mind. Fuck knows, it’s probably so accepted: first buy "winter tires", and then think about the car itself ...
    Near the Earth is a satellite - the Moon. Probably, in the near future, it would be possible to try to equip some kind of base on its surface, and only then set off to master the planets of the solar system. On the face of a surprisingly unproductive, arrogant and cynical way of cutting the budget dough. A.S. Pushkin wrote:
    It’s not possible to harness one cart
    Horse and quivering doe.

    These lines are deprecated. The new storyteller managed to harness a ram and a donkey to the cart ...
    Happy way in the development of budget billions!
    hi
    1. dragy52rus
      dragy52rus 12 October 2020 11: 04
      +4
      there is a breed of pigs with wool, so it is quite possible to shear.
      what's the point of a base on the moon? why should you wait and not start with technology development now?
      Is Musk also cutting the American budget, or is it different?
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 12 October 2020 11: 46
        -4
        Quote: dragy52rus
        there is a breed of pigs with wool, so it is quite possible to shear.

        Don't confuse wool and stubble.
        Quote: dragy52rus
        Musk is also sawing the American budget or is it different?

        What do you mean? wassat Musk and Rogozin, Jobs and Chubais, Gaddafi and Miller are twins and brothers.
        Rogozin didn't even buy a rug for his own office with his own money ... belay
        1. dragy52rus
          dragy52rus 12 October 2020 11: 58
          +3
          Mangalitsa (Hungarian mangalica) is a Hungarian breed of domestic pigs; was bred in the middle of the 1th century by crossing Hungarian breeds from Salonta and Bakony with the European wild boar and the Serbian Shumadian breed [XNUMX]. A pig of the Mangalitsa breed has a thick curly coat, like the wool of sheep.
      2. Leon68
        Leon68 13 October 2020 02: 49
        0
        Quote: dragy52rus
        Is Musk also cutting the American budget, or is it different?

        "You don't understand! This is different!" (from)
    2. Roman070280
      Roman070280 12 October 2020 11: 05
      -10 qualifying.
      The new storyteller managed to harness a ram and a donkey to the cart ...

      The population of our Great Power acts as sheep and donkeys.
      Well, the storyteller has long been known to everyone ..))
    3. Simargl
      Simargl 12 October 2020 11: 35
      +3
      Quote: ROSS 42
      So far, no one has managed to milk any milk from a goat or shear wool from a pig.
      У goat you can strain milk, albeit specific. To cut wool from a pig?
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Near the Earth is a satellite - the Moon. Probably, in the near future, it would be possible to try to equip some kind of base on its surface, and only then set out to master the planets of the solar system.
      What's so interesting there? To drive TEM to the Moon is not effective - it is relevant as an interplanetary one. If there is a possibility - to give up on development and wait for "foreign cars" to appear?
    4. Angelo Provolone
      Angelo Provolone 12 October 2020 11: 40
      +4
      Give deep space!
    5. Irokez
      Irokez 12 October 2020 12: 07
      +4
      Ross xnumx
      Well, read it and see what more or less competent techies say about such a project and not only will fly to the Moon and Venus, but Mars will also fly. And you have one "SAW" on your mind.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 12 October 2020 18: 56
        -6
        Quote: Irokez
        Well read and see

        Stop poking me until the mohawk crumpled with a turn. No matter how special, no matter what the former "boss", everyone strives to get along ... But I don’t give everyone my hands ... I am sick of these sycophants ...
        I’m here on the Internet, and on Russian TV channels, and in the press I’m looking for articles about “how Russian spaceships ply” ... And I’m either about the Vostochny cosmodrome, or about Rogozin’s nuclear tractor, or about some general incomprehensible cosmonauts from "dense countries" or about the launch of missions to Mars from "yard designers" ...
        Where is this news from Rogozin? Or is he set to tell us fairy tales?
        1. Irokez
          Irokez 13 October 2020 10: 17
          +1
          Oh yo ma yo "BARIN", then what. Then do not disgrace the flag of the USSR (change your avatar) where everyone was comrades and with each other were on you and shook hands. But yes, probably a pandemic and not everyone can give a hand, but it seems to me it's already a pandemic in the brain.
          Yes, and you are bad looking in the internet and TV channels about the Russian cosmonautics, which delivers all the crews to the ISS (the most valuable), but for you (Barin is to blame - "You"), this as a matter of course is probably not an achievement of a country flying into space under sanctions and the formation of the economy in the harsh world conditions of competition and "partnership".
          And why do you need information from Rogozin, not everything can and should be voiced, but just do it quietly and keep quiet, so that the "partners" sleep peacefully and do not get nervous, and do not give birth to new sanctions.
      2. LVMI1980
        LVMI1980 12 October 2020 22: 23
        +2
        more on this topic
    6. astepanov
      astepanov 12 October 2020 12: 10
      +8
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Probably, in the near future, it would be possible to try to equip some kind of base on its surface, and only then set out to master the planets of the solar system. On the face of a surprisingly unproductive, arrogant and cynical way to cut the budget dough.

      Anywhere we are talking about the development of the planets of the solar system? So far, the conversation is only about studying them. And by the way: in this context, "on the face" is written together, and not separately. And one more thing: the amount of 4,2 billion rubles seems quite small. 420 million rubles a year, they need:
      1) Modify an ultra-compact nuclear reactor with a long-term service life, operating without refueling;
      2) to make the most complex system of heat removal and discharge of heat into space, light and compact in the transport position, but with a huge surface in the working position;
      3) to finalize in terms of resource ion engines with an unprecedented power of 1 MW;
      4) solve the problems of putting all this machinery into space and assembling;
      5) solving other problems.
      And we shouldn't forget about inflation.
      Dozens, if not hundreds, of organizations and tens of thousands of people are employed in this work. Only the salary of only five thousand qualified specialists with deductions will already eat up almost all of this amount, and there is also payment for rent, heating, energy, water, materials (often very expensive) and a host of other expenses. In general, it seems to me that the amount is quite small and suggests that there is already a very decent backlog.
    7. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 12 October 2020 13: 33
      +1
      Quote: ROSS 42
      So far, no one has managed to milk any milk from a goat

    8. Nikolai Korovin
      Nikolai Korovin 12 October 2020 18: 00
      +1
      As far as I understand, it is assumed that this unit will be able to move not along economical trajectories, but to substantially straighten them. Or, say, to do the notorious oversun with the diametrical location of the Earth and the target planet, which may turn out to be the shortest trajectory. If this really works out, then the costs are just scanty. Such delights are not particularly needed for flights to the moon. Of course, the unit should at the same time develop a speed not just over 11,2 km / s, but 3-4 times more. Better 50. Then no planet will run away from him.
  • Letun
    Letun 12 October 2020 12: 57
    +3
    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    4,2 billion rubles seems like a lot, 55 million dollars seems like a little

    Reminded:
    This is too much for Athos, and too little for the Comte de La Fer. laughing
  • an-sar
    an-sar 12 October 2020 18: 39
    -6
    The result will be! Real estate in the Bahamas, Bali or somewhere nearby in the near Moscow region.
  • Dimy4
    Dimy4 12 October 2020 19: 56
    -5
    The main question is whether there will be a RESULT.

    It will, it will definitely be for that kind of money ... in the form of yachts, summer cottages abroad and filled pockets of various officials from Roscosmos.
  • Grandfather
    Grandfather 12 October 2020 10: 43
    -7
    Quote: Livonetc
    Who understands, 4.2 billion rubles for such an advance project is this normal?

    Rogozin believes that it will not be enough.
  • loki565
    loki565 12 October 2020 10: 46
    +7
    This is a new project, with engines that have not been used before, so maybe not enough. An interesting trajectory of flight from Earth to Venus and then to Jupiter.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 12 October 2020 11: 23
      -1
      What do you mean interesting? Everyone flies like that, thanks to the gravity sling.

      For example, the most productive AMC of our time, according to the discoveries, flew:
      For acceleration, the device used the gravitational field of three planets. It flew close to Venus twice - in 1998 and 1999. Then in August 1999 at a speed of 69 thousand km / h (approximately 19 km / s) passed near the Earth. In the winter of 2000, it flew past Jupiter, transmitting its photographs to Earth.
      1. slipped
        slipped 12 October 2020 11: 54
        +5
        Quote: donavi49
        What do you mean interesting? Everyone flies like that, thanks to the gravity sling.

        For example, the most productive AMC of our time, according to the discoveries, flew:
        For acceleration, the device used the gravitational field of three planets. It flew close to Venus twice - in 1998 and 1999. Then in August 1999 at a speed of 69 thousand km / h (approximately 19 km / s) passed near the Earth. In the winter of 2000, it flew past Jupiter, transmitting its photographs to Earth.


        In the Nuclon project, even if gravity assist is used, it will be indirectly. On it, in contrast to the ballistic flight of modern AMS, the main engines work constantly, while the device is under acceleration. That is why it is possible to slow down and leave satellites in the orbits of the planets.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 12 October 2020 10: 50
    +5
    Quote: Livonetc
    Who understands, 4.2 billion rubles for such an advance project is this normal?

    Minor ... But what is already known inspires. Option ☮️ of a megawatt-class reactor in space design is a very complicated thing. At a conference in MEPhI, something like that was reported, but in a closed section.
    Ion motors with electrostatic acceleration with a power of 50 kW were tested. Plasma (they have a higher thrust) for similar powers have not yet "shone", I saw at 12 kW, but they are simpler structurally and lighter, it is easier to assemble them in "clusters" ... Work has been going on for the last few years ...
    1. slipped
      slipped 12 October 2020 11: 56
      +4
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Work has been going on for the past few years ...


      Ion engines are used in the tugboat project from KB "Arsenal", which is in the picture.
      1. Mityay65
        Mityay65 12 October 2020 12: 44
        +1
        Greetings! And on "Nuclon" will there not be ionic ones ?! For some reason, I thought that if the TEM (aka tugboat) from Arsenal (conditionally, although this is Keldysh as the author of the technical project) has 200 kW of power at the terminals, then Nuclon is of a megawatt class in terms of electrical power) from the same Keldysh, this is a quadruple TEM from Arsenal.
        How can one understand this sudden diversity? fellow
        1. slipped
          slipped 12 October 2020 13: 02
          +3
          Quote: Mityai65
          Greetings! And on "Nuclon" will there not be ionic ones ?!


          Here is a preliminary design and will show what engines there will be. laughing I personally lean towards electrodeless plasma ones, they are both more powerful and promising. In a year, Roscosmos will conduct the Ostrovsky experiment at the Progress TGC, and much will become clear from the results.
          1. Mityay65
            Mityay65 12 October 2020 13: 22
            0
            Plasma is preferable in theory. But they have the disadvantage that this is another completely new technology that has not been tested, in contrast to ionic ones, which have been produced and used for decades. The factor of the simultaneous introduction of several breakthrough technologies can sum up, as an example, the history of H-1 ... It is better to follow the path of consistent, step by step, introduction and mastering of innovations. Although ... I suppose Olegych knows what he is doing, you will not cheat him yes
            As far as I understand, Nuclon will have a different reactor and a different developer? Or the same?
            I was bewildered how the energy-eaters from the Energy gave such a piece of meat to the Vanguard ... not in their customs hi
            1. slipped
              slipped 12 October 2020 13: 24
              +2
              Quote: Mityai65
              As far as I understand, Nuclon will have a different reactor and a different developer? Or the same?


              Developers - Institute. Keldysh and the Afrikantov Design Bureau. Everything is as usual. laughing

              By the way, according to information unconfirmed in the media, Rosatom has begun work on a nuclear reactor for the Lunar Base.
              1. Mityay65
                Mityay65 12 October 2020 13: 54
                0
                Stanno, why doesn't Roscosmos announce these programs officially? Only leaks, indirect data such as tenders, rumors, all of a sudden, "out of nowhere" videos without authorship ... bully
                After all, this is a great moment for inspiration and enthusiasm, uniting and rallying, especially during a pandemic ...
                You should not, of course, act by the method of St. Elon - "swing for a ruble, a blow for 3 kopecks" lol
                But clipping coupons from hype is still reasonable. And success in space is an excellent reason.
                1. slipped
                  slipped 12 October 2020 14: 14
                  +3
                  Quote: Mityai65
                  Stanno, why doesn't Roscosmos announce these programs officially?


                  What does it mean "does not announce these programs officially"? There was a big interview for TASS, in which it was said that the first contract on Nuclon would be signed by the end of the year. Here, they sign. laughing

                  Quote: Mityai65
                  Only leaks, indirect data such as tenders, rumors, all of a sudden "out of nowhere" videos without authorship ... as if they were trying to bully


                  So the videos are from the military, but everything is very secret there. And the video was rolled out when the iron was already done. Here on VO, many demand this - first to do it, and then show it. laughing

                  Quote: Mityai65
                  But clipping coupons from hype is still reasonable. And success in space is an excellent reason.


                  Duc, here is a beautiful rocket already at the start



                  And they fill up the tablets (already electronic laughing ) space maps!
  • Graz
    Graz 12 October 2020 11: 36
    -13 qualifying.
    well, they will start with 4 billion, then they will ask for more, then again, and in the end they will say well, they didn’t shmogla, and the program will be closed, and the money will already be mastered in their pockets
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 12 October 2020 12: 03
      -9
      up to 4,2 billion rubles to create a preliminary project

      This is only for the "project". yes And then: .... "well, I didn't do it ...." lol
  • Megatron
    Megatron 12 October 2020 12: 44
    -4


    That's not all
    1. slipped
      slipped 12 October 2020 13: 09
      +2
      25 billion rubles for the whole of Moscow is such a minuscule. Yes, the city is expanding and developing, does it bother you? laughing There, by the way, besides the headquarters, it is planned to create a large production cluster:


      1. Megatron
        Megatron 12 October 2020 13: 13
        -2
        In addition to Moscow, we have nothing to spend money on in our country.
        1. slipped
          slipped 12 October 2020 13: 30
          +1
          Quote: Megatron
          In addition to Moscow, we have nothing to spend money on in our country.


          Well, why, construction is also underway in the regions. Won the Crimean bridge was built



          almost the same Tavrida track



          new republican clinical hospital



          Airport in Simferopol



          and so on and so forth, and you are now attached to the NCC. laughing
          1. Megatron
            Megatron 12 October 2020 22: 21
            -5
            This bridge cost several times more than its real price.
            And WHO built it, I think there is no need to say.
            You will add our unfortunate zenith arena to the list of "achievements".

            In the meantime, while "space tugs, plow ...."
            1. slipped
              slipped 13 October 2020 00: 12
              +1
              experts say as usual laughing what should have been given to pregnant pensioners
              1. Megatron
                Megatron 14 October 2020 15: 44
                -2
                Well, yes, that's why Rogozin has an apartment for a billion rubles.
                1. slipped
                  slipped 14 October 2020 15: 56
                  +1
                  Quote: Megatron
                  Well, yes, that's why Rogozin has an apartment for a billion rubles.


                  Oh really. lol Don't be jealous. In general, he long ago offered to sell it for a billion, buy it? laughing
                  1. Megatron
                    Megatron 16 October 2020 00: 41
                    -1
                    Is it really, in fact, that Vostochny was built so well, already the workers rebelled there. Another provocation? And where are the landing? Found a couple of switchmen, I suppose they were already released. wassat
                    1. slipped
                      slipped 16 October 2020 02: 26
                      +1
                      Quote: Megatron
                      Is it really, in fact, that Vostochny was built so well, already the workers rebelled there.


                      Yes, they were workers of contractors in 2014, i.e. six years ago. Then all the heads of construction contractors were arrested and imprisoned, those who fled abroad were found. The workers were paid every penny.

                      Quote: Megatron
                      Found a couple of switchmen, I suppose they were already released. wassat


                      Yuri Khrizman, the head of the main contracting organization, received 12 years in prison, later his term was reduced by six months. There are many who sat down. In addition, a debt of five and a half billion rubles is collected from everyone. Those. they have already taken away everything that is possible in favor of the state. The stolen money is returned.
                    2. Megatron
                      Megatron 24 October 2020 19: 43
                      0
                      Rogozin is so good in this life that all corruption in Roscosmos will pass him by. In our country, in a strange way, big bosses have no desire to resign in the event of scandals with their subordinates. Therefore, Rogozin does not care at all about the arrest of the head of the Vostochny space center, Roman Bobkov, who, together with his accomplice from the Ministry of Defense, is accused of fraud in taking over water intake facilities. The damage from the activities of state-owned commercial companies amounted to 500 million rubles. Bobkov was included in the personnel reserve of Roscosmos. At the expense of Vostochny alone, the security forces can carry out plans to fight corruption for many years, and this is where Rogozin's unsinkability lies.
                    3. slipped
                      slipped 24 October 2020 19: 59
                      0
                      Quote: Megatron
                      and this is Rogozin's unsinkability.


                      It was Rogozin who started the audit at Roscosmos. And he has no desire to resign until he puts things in order there. What is not clear to you?
        2. A009
          A009 13 October 2020 15: 24
          0
          Can you clarify the link to the experts' opinion that it costs several times cheaper than it was built? Or, at least, voice the names of these experts?
          1. slipped
            slipped 14 October 2020 12: 29
            +2
            Quote: A009
            Can you clarify the link to the experts' opinion that it costs several times cheaper than it was built? Or, at least, voice the names of these experts?


            How can I tell you laughing , the recent reconstruction and opening of a road with money from the non-brothers' COVID-19 fund is somewhat different from the construction and opening of a 19-km bridge, consisting of roads and railways, built to provide for the population of two million in a large republic. It doesn't matter how much they spent, the main thing is that they did it reliably, they will use it for 100 years before the first overhaul. laughing
  • Hypertension
    Hypertension 12 October 2020 16: 21
    -4
    Quote: Livonetc
    Who understands, 4.2 billion rubles for such an advance project is this normal?

    Hard to tell. But it is obvious that this is 20.8 billion rubles less than the construction of a new headquarters for Roscosmos.
    Roskosmos will build a 25-meter headquarters in Moscow for 248 billion rubles.
    https://openmedia.io/news/n1/roskosmos-postroit-za-25-mlrd-rublej-shtab-kvartiru-v-moskve-vysotoj-248-metrov/
    1. slipped
      slipped 12 October 2020 17: 06
      +2
      Quote: Hyperion
      Quote: Livonetc
      Who understands, 4.2 billion rubles for such an advance project is this normal?


      Hard to say.


      That's not necessary. laughing One must be able not to speak, but to be able to divide.
  • mark2
    mark2 12 October 2020 19: 34
    -4
    It's only for R&D. How much the program will pour out, we'll see. Or is it another, as they say, the development of the budget.
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 12 October 2020 10: 27
    -5
    "Roscosmos will spend" - that speaks for itself.
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 12 October 2020 10: 31
    +4
    in 2030, the atomic space tug is to set off on a long flight to one of Jupiter's moons.
    As they say, until we live and see ...
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 12 October 2020 10: 48
      -9
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      As they say, we will live and see ...

      The only event that one will be able to live up to is either the padishah or the donkey ...
    2. imobile2008
      imobile2008 12 October 2020 14: 19
      -7
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      As they say, until we live and see ...

      That is, so many years have passed, they have not seen anything, and in the 30th year they suddenly appear by magic? In 30, there will instead be a super ambitious quad-fuel engine of 500 thousand kilowatts by 50. And you will write, we will wait and see ... Enrage people who hawala noodles!
      1. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 12 October 2020 14: 47
        +1
        For you personally, it was necessary to put a smiley. Meaning sarcasm. Enrage people who lack a sense of humor. I explain for you that in my phrase we live - we will see what sarcasm is concluded: .. So the news was published in 2020. They promise by 2030 ..So? .. Ie. there are 10 years ahead ... well, here either a donkey or a padishah, as indicated below in the comment ROSS 42, in addition, 10 years is a long time, during this time a lot can change and the NTP, as you have already correctly indicated, and in general everything. ..Yes, and you have to live these 10 years ... without getting sick with covid, which mows everyone in the world. Anything can happen ... That's why: if we live, we'll see ..
        1. imobile2008
          imobile2008 12 October 2020 14: 50
          -1
          Sorry, please do not understand. With these officials filling their pockets, there is no sense of humor.
          1. Daniil Konovalenko
            Daniil Konovalenko 12 October 2020 15: 01
            0
            Sure, not a problem.. laughing drinks hi
  • Roman070280
    Roman070280 12 October 2020 10: 34
    -6
    No one doubts that 4 lard will be spent ..
  • 210ox
    210ox 12 October 2020 10: 34
    +1
    The title of the article is the essence of what is happening - things are completely different. The preliminary project and the tug itself.
    1. loki565
      loki565 12 October 2020 10: 52
      0
      I wonder how they are going to send a reactor into space, such a howl will rise))) Although in the USSR it seems that they wanted to do something similar.
      1. ont65
        ont65 12 October 2020 11: 37
        0
        This is the reincarnation of the Soviet project Hephaestus, and various kinds of nuclear power plants have long been used on spacecraft.
  • Roman070280
    Roman070280 12 October 2020 10: 36
    -5
    4 billion .. It's not even flowers ..

    In order to develop domestic cosmonautics, Roscosmos corporation annually conducts all kinds of experiments to create various types of rockets. For example, the carrier with the code name "Yenisei", the construction of which is planned to be finally completed by 2028, will easily launch about 70 tons of payload into low-earth orbit.

    Yesterday morning, Dmitry Rogozin, head of the Roscosmos corporation, known for his contribution to the field of astronautics, personally gave an interview to a TASS journalist. In it, he said that the Yenisei super-heavy launch vehicle could be built for only 1 trillion rubles.


    Here there is already where to swing ..))
  • Alien From
    Alien From 12 October 2020 10: 37
    +2
    If only they spent on business.
    1. Roman070280
      Roman070280 12 October 2020 10: 39
      -13 qualifying.
      A yacht and a villa - isn't that the case ??
  • Well done
    Well done 12 October 2020 10: 38
    -11 qualifying.
    Rogozin will definitely spend it. Chubais as a companion and the best tug will turn out ... Money will certainly be "towed", barge haulers ...
    1. Ragnar Lodbrok
      Ragnar Lodbrok 12 October 2020 10: 47
      -5
      We are talking about a preliminary project for the creation of a space complex with a transport and energy module based on a nuclear power plant within the framework of the Nuclon development work. The nuclear tug is supposed to be used for flights to other planets of the solar system. People, do you really believe in interplanetary flights in the conditions of our reality? They will drink money and that's it.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
  • Mityay65
    Mityay65 12 October 2020 10: 50
    +8
    What great news! The technology is really crazy - the most important step from the flight of the first man into space in 1961. Everything else was just a prelude to mastering movement in world space using electro-jet propulsion. This will give us the outer planets, the asteroid belt and the moon of the gigantic planets. This step provides a vector of development for the next 100-200 years.
    Well done Olegych! love
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 12 October 2020 11: 08
      -11 qualifying.
      This is the development of documentation to start development. It's too early to talk about the results
      1. Mityay65
        Mityay65 12 October 2020 11: 27
        +7
        The project is at the stage of practical implementation. There is Dmitry Konanykhin's channel on YouTube, where the progress of the project for the last 1,5 years is covered in more or less detail.
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 12 October 2020 11: 43
          -7
          The news here directly says what the money is allocated for
          1. slipped
            slipped 12 October 2020 12: 01
            +5
            Quote: BlackMokona
            The news here directly says what the money is allocated for


            There are two tug projects. One for the military from KB "Arsenal", they were the first to be given such an opportunity to implement, since they were previously engaged in nuclear installations. Photo from the presentation of their tug in the title. Nuclon is a more powerful system.
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 12 October 2020 13: 54
              -6
              No, the previous contract was terminated, this is a new contract but without elements that could not be developed
              1. slipped
                slipped 12 October 2020 13: 56
                +4
                Quote: BlackMokona
                No, the previous contract was terminated, this is a new contract but without elements that could not be developed


                No. You are greatly mistaken. laughing By the way, the contract was terminated with the builders of the bench base, and this is a new ROC in a series of previous ones.
      2. ont65
        ont65 12 October 2020 11: 40
        +1
        By the mid-90s, a large number of TEM elements had already been worked out.
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 12 October 2020 11: 44
          -6
          As a result, these elements could not be created and they were thrown out of the project. Drip cooling system and turbine.
          1. ont65
            ont65 12 October 2020 11: 54
            +4
            The role of the turbine in the approved project was played by a thermionic converter, cooling was also determined and the engine was different. No noise, no vibrations, but the parameters are the same.
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 12 October 2020 12: 00
              -3
              Only here the thermal emission efficiency is much lower, like conventional radiators against drip.
              1. ont65
                ont65 12 October 2020 12: 29
                +2
                Um, are you one of the developers of this program? A member of a rival group? :) In vain, you shouldn't say such things from the couch. You can, but not worth it. You will still hit the sky with your finger.
            2. Mityay65
              Mityay65 12 October 2020 12: 20
              0
              This project is completely different:
              - another new a gas-cooled reactor instead of a thermionic one with a liquid-metal coolant;
              - instead of thermal emission there is a gas turbine;
              - The conversion efficiency is higher. From about 7-12% to 34-36%.
              1. Blackmokona
                Blackmokona 12 October 2020 13: 55
                -4
                This has already been abandoned, it was not possible to create a turbine and drop cooling
          2. ont65
            ont65 12 October 2020 11: 56
            0
            I mean that since the 60s, the USSR has already spent a lot of money and time on the details of this project.
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 12 October 2020 12: 00
              -1
              Everything is built on the basis of past successes. Newton noted this
          3. slipped
            slipped 12 October 2020 12: 03
            +1
            Who told you this? laughing for TEM gas turbine conversion. And the Keldyshev Institute has recently confirmed this in the person of its representative.
            1. A009
              A009 13 October 2020 15: 34
              -2
              A link to confirm that the turbines were left there?
              Turbines were removed, drip radiators as well. Radiant panels and thermoelectric generators there.
              1. slipped
                slipped 13 October 2020 20: 51
                +2
                Quote: A009
                A link to confirm that the turbines were left there?


                Tatyana Shchepetina from the Kurchatov Institute on September 28, in a program about nuclear engines on the PostNauka channel, said:

                "At present, the plant that is being developed is a two-circuit one. It is a gas-cooled reactor and it produces ... it means, with a turbine converter ... [...] the most compact is a turbine converter, although it is not the most convenient, The turbine needs to be serviced.The turbine gives out electricity, so then the electricity can heat any substance up to the plasma state, i.e. pump it with energy and a small amount of high-energy substance will go from the nozzle, it will be more efficient movement than through ... single-circuit installation, pump the same, say, hydrogen through the core ... because it cannot be heated to very high temperatures .... [...] fuel elements ... they restrict us. "
                1. Mityay65
                  Mityay65 13 October 2020 22: 07
                  +1
                  Also watched this lady. Interesting. Do you know by any chance on which circuit the turbine will be hung? So, according to the scheme from the distant 11 years from the presentation of Keldysh, now walks on the Internet, they were going to hang up on 1 "hot" circuit, and the second only for cooling. For me this is a big mistake, I have experience with this technique, or the desire may be misleading.
                  PS The topic about the fact that they abandoned the turbine and switched to thermal emission is being developed by our brothers Ukrainians lol
                  They have a website and a couple of "experts" there. Referring to "sources in Roskosmos"! laughing
                  Sorry for the brothers ...
                  1. slipped
                    slipped 13 October 2020 22: 12
                    +2
                    Quote: Mityai65
                    Do you know by any chance on which circuit the turbine will be hung?


                    I don't know the details. But the bench turbomachine converter on the Roskosmos channel has already been shown, in passing, and few people noticed. lol
  • iouris
    iouris 12 October 2020 10: 57
    -6
    Will he spend or lose?
  • Curt
    Curt 12 October 2020 10: 58
    -3
    The last 10 years, maybe more we are told that so much is allocated. I DO NOT care how much you allocate - report on the work done on Mass Media - and how much was allocated. Compare then the result obtained and the funds spent in other cities. (again, according to the media) After the conclusions / output of statistics, allocate money and work only in terms of price-quality ratio - so that other companies have an incentive to work better. It concerns not only space, but I'm sorry.
  • Antidote
    Antidote 12 October 2020 11: 07
    -11 qualifying.
    The most interesting thing is that there is no reasonable use of this thing, well, except for the radar ...
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 12 October 2020 11: 07
    0

    According to the flight program, the tug with a docked payload module will first go to the Moon, then to Venus, and then to the satellite of Jupiter, where it will begin research. On the way, the tug will leave two satellites in the orbits of the Moon and Venus.
    To live, but to have a look. Why fight now? request
  • Shimoza
    Shimoza 12 October 2020 11: 14
    -5
    Who would doubt what will spend. But will it create? I doubt it wildly.
  • pafegosoff
    pafegosoff 12 October 2020 11: 15
    -7
    I have no doubt about "spending" it.
    As for "create" - they will draw on a piece of paper, create a layout from matches and cardboard and that's it - the creation is over.
  • Hog
    Hog 12 October 2020 11: 16
    +3
    The idea is interesting, I hope something will work out.
  • Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 12 October 2020 11: 38
    -12 qualifying.
    The cleanest cut. As a result, they will draw five pictures, name the cost of construction as five billion, but no longer rubles, and close the topic.
    1. ont65
      ont65 12 October 2020 12: 08
      +3
      This is not a cut, but a respect for our own developments. This project has been gathering dust on the shelves for 15 years. And, by the way, probably the only way to finally launch scientific programs in space for relatively little money.
      1. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 12 October 2020 12: 28
        -3
        Uncle, read carefully, 4 billion is for the PROJECT. Pictures and paper. The launch itself will cost absolutely incredible money, the economy will crack if you do it seriously.
        1. ont65
          ont65 12 October 2020 13: 26
          +5
          Nephew, look at the publications on the topic of TEM and you will see a lot of already embodied in metal. They have been working on this project for decades, and in several versions, from medium megawatt to more powerful for manned programs.
    2. Svetlana
      Svetlana 12 October 2020 14: 52
      +1
      Quote: Sancho_SP
      The cleanest cut.

      Recently we wrote about cleaning the geosynchronous orbit (https://topwar.ru/175912-svesti-s-geostacionara-znamenitoe-npo-mashinostroenija-pohozhe-razrabatyvaet-kosmicheskoe-oruzhie-dlja-vysokih-orbit.html).
      And the United States boasted that it had a directional neutron emitter based on an ion accelerator with a range of about 100 km in space. If we launch the TEM transport and energy module with a nuclear power plant considered in the article into an orbit 10 km lower than geosynchronous, but in the opposite direction, and as a payload on the TEM, in addition to ion engines, place also an analogue of the mentioned directional neutron generator, then the resulting apparatus will be able to 12 hours to "clear" the entire geosynchronous orbit from working telecommunication satellites.
      1. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 12 October 2020 15: 14
        -5
        Napoleonic plans are wonderful.

        But you get a grasp of the essence: 4 billion has already been spent. And there will be nothing material in return. But will there ever be a real engine later?
        1. Svetlana
          Svetlana 12 October 2020 15: 26
          +3
          Quote: Sancho_SP
          But will there ever be

          Then (after cleaning) there will definitely be
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 12 October 2020 11: 41
    -6
    In 10 years ... as if we are not living in the 21st century with its composites, computer modeling, 3D printing and as if we are some Bangladesh thinking about launching a Banglanaut for the first time ..
    I don’t know how for me the voicing of such deadlines for the product, on which they have already been working for a long time, is worse than just silence on this topic.
    1. slipped
      slipped 12 October 2020 12: 09
      +2
      Quote: Knell Wardenheart
      I don’t know how for me the scoring of such terms for the product, on which they have already been working for a lot of time


      The deadlines are strictly tied to the construction of ground infrastructure for pre-flight maintenance of space nuclear installations. There are certain safety requirements when working with such devices. Since the launch is planned to be carried out from the Vostochny cosmodrome, the construction of such facilities there will be completed by 2030.
  • Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 12 October 2020 12: 24
    +2
    If it works out, then this is a significant step in space exploration. In addition, this is the improvement and development of our design school, the emergence of new technologies, new directions in ensuring the defense capability of Russia. He who does not try does not achieve anything!
  • Gelos
    Gelos 12 October 2020 14: 44
    -4
    Well, another ten years are given for the sawmill of the budget.
  • From Tomsk
    From Tomsk 12 October 2020 15: 04
    -5
    Are you IT SERIOUS ??? ... They CANNOT finish building 10 !!! years ... Module for ISS, "Nauka" CANNOT BUILD 12 !!! years...
    1. slipped
      slipped 12 October 2020 17: 13
      +3
      Quote: From Tomsk
      Are you IT SERIOUS ??? ... They CANNOT finish building 10 !!! years...


      Your kapslok sinks. Splattered on your keyboard? laughing

      Vaughn "Baikonur" can not be completed for 60 years. They build and build everything. New construction will begin this year. laughing

      Quote: From Tomsk
      Module for ISS, "Science" CANNOT BE EXTENDED 12 !!! years...


      Wake up. The "Science" module has been at the cosmodrome for a long time and is being prepared for launch.
  • fa2998
    fa2998 12 October 2020 18: 53
    -5
    Quote: Insurgent
    Question

    Question! 30 is unrealistic for our country in such matters! We have been making tanks and airplanes for 20 years, and here a space squiggle has been made for the first time in the world! How is our "Federation" - after all, it's much simpler - another modification of the spacecraft for near space.?
    They will always move to the right, master the money, and then either the donkey or the padishah will die. hi
    1. slipped
      slipped 12 October 2020 19: 22
      +3
      Quote: fa2998
      How is our "Federation"


      The production of product elements for static tests is in progress.

      reusable apparatus housings



      bottom housing element



      disposable composite housing for service systems module



      Quote: fa2998
      -because it's much easier, another modification of the spacecraft for near space.?


      No. The promising new-generation transport vehicle "Oryol" is a spacecraft for flights to geostationary and circumlunar orbits. This has been said more than once here. As part of its flight design tests, which will begin in late autumn 2023, three space flights will be performed - two unmanned and one with astronauts to the ISS.
      1. Mityay65
        Mityay65 14 October 2020 11: 36
        0
        This is not encouraging .. I heard out of my ear that KK Eagle was going to slowly cover it up. And there were serious objections against him. In this form, the "Eagle", intended for long-distance near-earth flights, is a morally outdated machine - a direct entry into the Earth's atmosphere with a 2nd cosmic speed is wildness in the 21st century. And you need a super-heavy for the expedition.
        In general, this is a repetition of Apollo's scheme, but then it was justified by the speed of development. It's stupid to repeat it now ... hi
        1. slipped
          slipped 14 October 2020 12: 43
          +2
          Quote: Mityai65
          This is not encouraging .. I heard out of my ear that KK Eagle was going to slowly cover it up.


          No. And they never even met. Why do you think so?

          Quote: Mityai65
          In this form, the "Eagle", intended for long-distance near-earth flights, is a morally outdated machine - a direct entry into the Earth's atmosphere with a 2nd cosmic speed is wildness in the 21st century. And you need a super-heavy for the expedition.


          What is the second space speed for? That's right - fly to the lunar orbit and return. So you can fly there with two booster blocks - one for acceleration, the other for deceleration at the Moon, but back there are only the engines of the service module, you can go into Earth's orbit, but at the same time, you can only slow down at the Earth's atmosphere. Superheavy is needed not only for "Eagle", a large program is being worked out for it.

          But for cargo operations that do not require a quick flight of the radiation belts, the tugboat is designed.
          1. Mityay65
            Mityay65 14 October 2020 14: 22
            0
            Quote: slipped
            And they never even met.

            There was a meeting there, it seems, around February. Rumors. And not the first thing. Where it was proposed to close the Eagle as an outdated KK.
            Yes, this is an old topic. Everyone understands perfectly well that Orel has an old "Apolonian" ideology.
            Quote: slipped
            fly to the lunar orbit and return.

            There are different schemes. Not just the one you write about. They are many. Including refueling for the return flight at the lunar station.
            For example, with an entry into the Earth's orbit and docking with the ISS for transfer to the Soyuz. And the subsequent refueling and repetition of the start to the moon. This makes the QC reusable.
            The proposed Eagle scheme has several drawbacks:
            1) The risk of returning with the 2nd space speed directly into the atmosphere. The angle of entry must be consistent with the angle of entry into the atmosphere with a minimum deviation. Otherwise, the astronauts will either be burned alive or, having jumped off the Earth's atmosphere, they will fly off into world space.
            2) Carriage of the reentry vehicle with oneself to the Moon and back, dead weight.
            3) Little reusability.
            4) We need superheavy. This is the strangest thing - no one in a solid mind will give money for superheavy, most likely. And again we will be left without the Moon ...
            Quote: slipped
            the tugboat is designed for cargo operations that do not require a quick flight of radiation belts.

            Here I have doubts about the applicability of TEM Nuclon for flights to the Moon - due to the presence of highly enriched uranium on board, it can approach the Earth only to an orbit with an altitude of 800 km. He will not be allowed into LEO. Therefore, a logistics operation will be needed to deliver cargo to this orbit, docking, centering, refueling with xenon ... this is an epic.
            In addition, flights as short as the moon's orbit are not his element. The flight will take about 2 months. Nuclon's element - long-distance flights - Mars and further down the list ...
            I think that the Earth-Moon track will remain for the liquid-propellant engine for now.
            1. slipped
              slipped 14 October 2020 14: 48
              +2
              Quote: Mityai65
              Rumors.


              How many rumors strike our ears.

              Quote: Mityai65
              Everyone understands perfectly well that Orel has an old "Apolonian" ideology.


              Not quite.

              Quote: Mityai65
              There are different schemes. Not just the one you write about. They are many. Including refueling for the return flight at the lunar station.


              We don't have a lunar station. PTK NP "Eagle" on OLO and so it is filled.

              Quote: Mityai65
              For example, with access to Earth's orbit and docking with the ISS for transfer to the Soyuz.


              This will also require braking on the atmosphere.

              Quote: Mityai65
              And the subsequent refueling and repetition of the start to the moon. This makes the QC reusable.


              The recoverable apparatus of the PTK NP "Oryol" is reusable. It can withstand three flights to the Moon and back.

              Quote: Mityai65
              The proposed Eagle scheme has several drawbacks: 1) The risk of returning with the 2nd space velocity directly into the atmosphere.


              The L1 spacecraft entered the atmosphere and slowed down at the second space speed. And more than once. Nothing wrong.

              Quote: Mityai65
              2) Carriage of the reentry vehicle with oneself to the Moon and back, dead weight.


              The body of the reentry vehicle is a means of protecting the crew from radiation. This is not a "load" - the astronauts are in it. laughing

              Quote: Mityai65
              3) Little reusability.


              Higher.

              Quote: Mityai65
              4) We need superheavy. This is the strangest thing - no one in a solid mind will give money for superheavy, most likely. And again we will be left without the Moon ...


              And we will understand and will give unsure. laughing

              Quote: Mityai65
              Here I have doubts about the applicability of TEM Nuclon for flights to the Moon - due to the presence of highly enriched uranium on board, it can approach the Earth only in an orbit with an altitude of 800 km.


              Nuclon is not for flights to the Moon. It is for flights in the solar system and its engines, IMHO, will be a turbofan. And for the moon they will make another tug - on the ID, which Arsenal showed.

              Quote: Mityai65
              He will not be allowed into LEO.


              Who won't let you in? It starts from there after starting the reactor.

              Quote: Mityai65
              Therefore, a logistic operation will be needed to deliver cargo to this orbit, docking, centering, refueling with xenon ... this is an epic.


              This, as you say, "epic", Progress is constantly performed when they arrive at the station.

              Quote: Mityai65
              In addition, flights as short as the moon's orbit are not his element. The flight will take about 2 months. Nuclon's element - long-distance flights - Mars and further down the list ...


              Higher.

              Quote: Mityai65
              I think that the Earth-Moon track will remain for the liquid-propellant engine for now.


              For manned flight - Yes.
  • Skai
    Skai 12 October 2020 20: 32
    -2
    why spend that kind of money on some kind of space tow truck? amers satellites incorrectly parked tyrit?
  • lvov_aleksey
    lvov_aleksey 12 October 2020 22: 37
    -4
    let them master the near space, I'm not talking about cosmodromes on Earth at all, they got out their Napoleonic plans to build already !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Petrik66
    Petrik66 14 October 2020 10: 08
    -3
    As already tired of Roskosmos and Rogozin ... ... only projects, chatter and the development of money. With the Mask we wiped off and let's again tell how in the song Mango mango
    We have such devices,
    But we will not tell you about them ...
    It is high time to disperse this shop. We can say that this is for specialists to solve, but Musk has not only beautiful pictures, but also the result - it is taking away our market share and hiding behind special terms and fantastic chatter about bright prospects is no longer smart.
    1. slipped
      slipped 14 October 2020 12: 46
      +2
      Quote: Petrik66
      As already tired of Roskosmos and Rogozin ... ... only projects, chatter and the development of money.


      Specificity? - I don’t. lol