Military Review

The flowering of noble liberalism in Russia

164

The Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia votes to pass the constitution. Artist Christie G. Challenger (1873–1952). Capitol, Washington


I call death, look not able to bole,
How a decent husband perishes in poverty
And the villain lives in beauty and hall;
How does the confidence of the pure souls hang around?
How chastity threatens shame
How honors are given to scoundrels
As the power of niknet before arrogant gaze,
As everywhere in life triumphant rogue;
As the art of arbitrariness mocks,
As mindlessness rules the mind,
As in the clutches of evil painfully languishing
All that we call good ...
W. Shakespeare. Sonnet 66th


History Russian liberalism. There were two articles on the history of Russian liberalism. There will be nothing about antiquity and everything Western in this cycle, although one cannot do without some explanatory references. The material will be written according to plan, according to the stages of development of the historical process in Russia. We will not get ahead of ourselves. Therefore, the statements about the liberals of Dostoevsky and "Lenin on liberalism" - all this is still ahead. Will you get a large volume? Yes! But what can you do ... Although the material is presented in an extremely chewed form, as the comments show, it turned out to be rather difficult for a number of VO readers to perceive. Some of the commentators on liberalism have denied even the right to be called an ideology, that's how! Therefore, let us once again remember that haste is good only when catching insects (we will leave the rest of life examples suggested to the author by the readers of VO in the comments for one-on-one conversations), and we will just read on.

Let us recall that the "Declaration of Natural, Civil and Political Human Rights" (adopted by the deputies of the States General on August 24, 1789) stated that "the purpose of any association of people in society is to protect the natural, civil and political rights of man; these rights are at the heart of the social contract; their recognition and proclamation must precede the constitution, which guarantees their implementation ... ”And then the following was written:

Article 1.
People are born and remain free and equal in rights. Social differences can only be based on the common good.
Article 2.
The goal of any political union is to ensure the natural and inalienable human rights. These are freedom, property, security, and resistance to oppression.
Article 3.
The nation is the source of sovereign power. No institution, no individual can wield power that does not clearly come from the nation.
Article 4.
Freedom consists in the ability to do everything that does not harm another: thus, the exercise of the natural rights of each person is limited only by those limits that ensure other members of society enjoy the same rights. These limits can only be determined by law.
Article 5.
The law has the right to prohibit only actions harmful to society. Anything that is not prohibited by law is allowed, and no one can be forced to do what is not prescribed by law.
Article 6.
The law is the expression of the general will. All citizens have the right to participate personally or through their representatives in its creation. It should be the same for everyone, whether it protects or punishes. All citizens are equal before him and therefore have equal access to all posts, public offices and occupations according to their abilities and without any other distinctions, except those due to their virtues and abilities.
Article 7.
No one can be charged, detained or imprisoned other than in the cases provided for by law and in the forms prescribed by it. Anyone who asks for, gives, executes, or compels to execute arbitrary orders is subject to punishment; but every citizen, summoned or detained by law, must obey implicitly: in case of resistance, he is responsible.
Article 8.
The law should impose penalties only strictly and indisputably necessary; no one can be punished otherwise than by virtue of a law adopted and promulgated before the commission of an offense and duly applied.
Article 9.
Since everyone is presumed innocent until found guilty, in cases where it is deemed necessary to arrest a person, any unnecessarily harsh measures that are not necessary must be strictly suppressed by law.
Article 10.
No one should be oppressed for their views, even religious ones, provided that their expression does not violate the public order established by law.
Article 11.
Free expression of thoughts and opinions is one of the most precious human rights; therefore, every citizen can freely express himself, write, publish, being responsible only for the abuse of this freedom in cases provided by law.
Article 12.
State power is needed to guarantee human and civil rights; it is created in the interests of all, and not for the personal benefit of those to whom it is entrusted.
Article 13.
General contributions are required for the upkeep of the military and for management costs; they must be equally distributed among all citizens according to their capabilities.
Article 14.
All citizens have the right to establish, themselves or through their representatives, the need for state taxation, voluntarily agree to its collection, monitor its expenditure and determine its share, basis, procedure and duration of collection.
Article 15.
The company has the right to demand from any official a report on its activities.
Article 16.
A society where rights are not guaranteed and where there is no separation of powers has no constitution.
Article 17.
Since property is an inviolable and sacred right, no one can be deprived of it except in the case of a clear social necessity established by law and subject to fair and prior compensation.


The flowering of noble liberalism in Russia

The text of the Declaration from the collection "French Republic: Constitution and Legislative Acts". M., 1989 Image of the Declaration - from the magazine "UNESCO Courier", 1989

And what is this if not a clearly formulated and structured ideology, moreover, declared by the people's representatives?

By the way, someone wrote in the comments that the revolution preserved the slavery of blacks in France. In fact, it was abolished in 1794 (David B. Gaspar, David P. Geggus, A Turbulent time: the French Revolution and the Greater Caribbean, 1997, p. 60) both in the country and in all of its overseas possessions * ... By the way, in Russia in 1797, the "Manifesto on the three-day corvee" of April 5, 1797 of Emperor Paul I, for the first time since the establishment of the institution of serfdom in Russia, legally limited peasant labor in favor of the court and the state, as well as landowners, by three days a week and strictly forbade landlords to force peasants to work on Sunday. That is, the global trend towards softening of morals is obvious in this case as well.


Portrait of Emperor Paul I. SS Shchukin (… –1828). State Hermitage

It is clear that the Manifesto had an important religious and, above all, socio-economic significance, as it contributed to the development of the peasant economy. Indeed, it directly emphasized that the peasants should by no means idle for the three remaining working days, but work for their own interests. By the way, this was another reason for the dislike of the subjects of Pavel: he climbed into the pocket of his subjects, and who would like it?

Well, the provisions of the "Declaration ..." became the basis for all liberals of that era, including, of course, the provisions of the previously adopted US Constitution of 1787.

However, the horrors of Thermidor, and then the dictatorship of Napoleon, showed the Russian nobility that the road to hell was laid out with good intentions, and very often after the declaration of freedom, rivers of blood are first spilled, and then everything returns to normal.

And, of course, the young emperor Alexander I, who succeeded his murdered father on the throne, also read the "Declaration ..." Nevertheless, his heart was by no means hardened, it is not for nothing that his reign is rightfully considered the period of the greatest flowering of the ideas of liberalism among the Russian nobility.


Emperor Alexander I. S. S. Shchukin. Russian Museum, St. Petersburg

It's funny that, being the first nobleman of Russia, Emperor Alexander was at the same time a fully convinced supporter of all the basic principles of liberalism. And all because his tutor was a citizen of the republican Switzerland F.S. Laharpe, who managed to prove to his student that the era of monarchs endowed with absolute power was over. Lagarpe convinced the young heir to the throne that Russia could well avoid the bloody chaos that the French Revolution brought to Europe only if the initiative to carry out two major reforms, that is, the abolition of serfdom and the granting of a constitution to the country, would be in the hands of an enlightened and a liberal-minded monarch. But at the same time, Laharpe warned Alexander that he should not expect that on the path of reforms he would be supported by all the Russian nobility. The majority, he said, would not accept the abolition of serfdom, since they would defend their economic well-being. Therefore, one should rely on a minority - like-minded sovereign close to the throne. And also not to give up autocratic rule in any case, but on the contrary, to use all its power to reform the country, starting with the education of the people, because the dark and illiterate people are afraid of everything new.


S.R. Vorontsov. Thomas Lawrence (1769-1830). State Hermitage

Having become emperor, Alexander Pavlovich did just that: he surrounded the throne with his associates. Already in 1801, practically all the top government posts were occupied by supporters of British constitutionalism, among them Chancellor A. R. Vorontsov, then his brother, who was ambassador to London for many years, S. R. Vorontsov; famous admirals N. S. Mordvinov and P. V. Chichagov; and, of course, M. M. Speransky, who held the post of Secretary of State. Although many of them made their careers under Catherine II, their worldview was greatly changed by the French Revolution. They began to fear that similar shocks might well befall Russia. After all, we had a Pugachev revolt under the same Catherine? And they were supporters of reforms, but at the same time they rejected revolution as a means of changing society, believing that it leads to anarchy, and ultimately to the establishment of a dictatorship. So, for example, the same S.R.Vorontsov wrote about the reign of Emperor Paul I, who seemed to him a real tyrant:

Who does not wish that the terrible tyranny of the past reign could never be restored to us? But one cannot just make the jump from slavery to freedom at once without falling into anarchy, which is worse than slavery.



N. S. Mordvinov (1754-1845) in the uniform of the Moscow militia 1806-1807 A. G. Varnek (1782-1843). State Hermitage

NS Mordvinov was a “noteworthy admiral”. He studied naval business in England, and, as the biographer wrote about him, "was imbued there ... with respect for the institutions of this country." He was a supporter of Adam Smith and his doctrine of economic freedom. In 1810, he took the high position of chairman of the Department of State Economy in the State Council and first of all began to fight for the freedom of private enterprise in Russia. He wrote to the emperor that property "is the first stone", without which and without the rights protecting it, "there is no need for anybody either in laws, or in the fatherland, or in the state."

In his opinion, the introduction of the constitution should have been preceded by the abolition of serfdom, since the people who have lived for centuries without civil freedom, having received it at the will of the ruler, will not be able to use it for themselves and society for the good, that it is possible to grant freedom by decree, but it is impossible to teach freedom by decree.

All doubts, the shadow of the murdered father stood behind the back of Alexander I and he could not help but be afraid to share his fate. Therefore, reform projects were developed in a narrow circle of confidants and secretly from the bulk of the nobility, so that contemporaries even gave him the name of the Secret Committee. However, the start of reforms was prevented by the war with Napoleon, which began in 1805. Another factor was the resistance of the top of the nobility, who in every possible way opposed the novelty.


M. M. Speransky. A. G. Varnek (1782-1843). Irkutsk Regional Art Museum named after V.P.Sukachev

Meanwhile, Russia had only one step left before the adoption of the constitution. M.M.Speransky developed a plan for constitutional reform and presented it to the emperor already in 1809, and a year later the State Council was established, which, according to Speransky's plan, was to become the upper chamber in the Russian parliament. But the conservatives at the throne, and there were a lot of them there too, frightened Alexander with a conspiracy, Speransky was credited with espionage in favor of Napoleon, and the whole "reform" ended with the emperor sending his secretary-reformer into exile until better times, which, however, did not did not come until 1825.

What is the main reason for such inconsistent behavior of Emperor Alexander I? And the fact is that both he and his associates sacredly observed the most important position of liberalism, which consisted in respect for any private property. It turned out that if the land of the nobles is their property, and the peasants are attached to this land, then even by the will of the emperor, it is, in fact, impossible to take the land from them, because to do so would mean encroaching on the economic foundation of liberalism itself! It was a contradiction, which they never managed to get out of.

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Liberalism and Conservatism. From theory to practice
Liberalism in Russia: Origins
164 comments
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  1. bober1982
    bober1982 17 October 2020 07: 20 New
    +4
    Alexander I was a member of the English Masonic lodge and all of his many like-minded people, identified in the article as supporters of British constitutionalism, were also in the aforementioned lodges. This is how liberalism turned out.
    Any constitution is pure fiction for gullible simpletons.
    I did not like the article, it turned out to be a small historical essay, but not an analysis, about the mysterious history of Russian liberalism.
    Read, gentlemen, F.M. Dostoevsky's novel - "Demons", maybe boring, but intelligible.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 17 October 2020 07: 46 New
      +2
      Well, how can it be without the Masons, they are dear in all the troubles of Russia, mothers are to blame. And I already wrote about Dostoevsky. I don’t like it, I don’t agree, I don’t respect, either as a writer or as a person.
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 17 October 2020 07: 51 New
        +1
        Quote: Icelord
        And I already wrote about Dostoevsky. I don’t like it, I don’t agree, I don’t respect, either as a writer or as a person

        This is your right, by the way, he knew firsthand about the seamy side of Russian liberalism, but he was cured in the Omsk prison.
        Quote: Icelord
        Well, what about without Masons then

        Yes, they shit a lot.
        1. kalibr
          17 October 2020 08: 04 New
          -2
          Quote: bober1982
          Yes, they shit a lot.

          We saved a lot of Russian people from hunger ... More on that in the next article.
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 17 October 2020 09: 05 New
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            We saved a lot of Russian people from hunger ...

            ...... and that is your secret, the score is 666
            So they teased the Masons in those blessed times.
      2. kalibr
        17 October 2020 07: 59 New
        +2
        The following material will be about the Liberal Freemasons. I just think that you cannot shove everything into one article. Well, I would write about membership in the Masonic lodge of Alexander's entourage ... there would be a reproach - "unfold". So let's be consistent. Today about one thing, tomorrow about another! And about Dostoevsky ... I think that in general it is necessary to do the material, how some of our famous people lived, how many houses they had, how they played in Monte Carlo ... in a word, how they lived on a grand scale, at the expense of the people, and wrote like he suffers ... The trend was ... Write about the suffering people. And then Pushkin - "rabble", Gogol - "rabble", Chekhov ... well, he also described the representative of the people badly. I'll give it all ... And the more I dig, the more I am convinced. It is said about them - they do not know what they are doing! For their wives did not wash the floors in their houses, they did not wash the linen, they did not stand at the stove. As a result, FREEDOM AND EQUALITY. And if they knew how it would turn out, I am sure that every first would shut up, and the second would demand a stronger whip for the people. "Do not spare cartridges, do not give blank volleys", "Bullets for the rabble, a rope for the leaders" - this was realized later. Well, and Dostoevsky had to be locked up in a psychiatric hospital from the very beginning. Nobody would die without his books!
        1. Silhouette
          Silhouette 17 October 2020 09: 43 New
          10
          Quote: kalibr
          Well, and Dostoevsky had to be locked up in a psychiatric hospital from the very beginning. Nobody would die without his books!

          Sir, you have delirium! The megalomania shown in past comments can end in violent insanity. As a doctor, I tell you this. Stop! Leave this topic. She will not lead to any good. Write about something easier for you. And you will have happiness, honor and respect.
          1. kalibr
            17 October 2020 16: 10 New
            +2
            Why are you a doctor? Otherwise, doctors are different ...
            1. kalibr
              17 October 2020 20: 06 New
              +2
              Well, he asked the man in an amicable way. In response, minus and silence ... Well, what's criminal? You are afraid that I will roll into the asphalt on the "drunk road". No. This applies only to the Novochronozhians.
          2. Kwas
            Kwas 17 October 2020 18: 19 New
            +3
            Damn it, what a coincidence, I don't like Dostoevsky either, since my school days! Painful, gloomy, inclined to bad thoughts and mental disorders books. Can you object? Yes, by the way, a genius, I do not deny, but reading is harmful to the health of the reader and those around him.
            1. kalibr
              17 October 2020 20: 16 New
              +2
              Quote: Kwas
              Damn it, what a coincidence, I don't like Dostoevsky either, since my school days! Painful, gloomy, inclined to bad thoughts and mental disorders books. Can you object? Yes, by the way, a genius, I do not deny, but reading is harmful to the health of the reader and those around him.

              You are not alone. Lenin also disliked Dostoevsky's work, for example, he called "Crime and Punishment" "moralizing vomit." After the beginning of the reading he threw it aside, and from the scene in the monastery of The Brothers Karamazov he vomited altogether. "I don't need such literature - what can it give me? .. I don't have free time for this rubbish." And Lenin was, in general, an intelligent man, intelligent and well-read.
              1. Senior seaman
                Senior seaman 18 October 2020 10: 06 New
                0
                Quote: kalibr
                Lenin also did not like the work of Dostoevsky

                Maybe he recognized whom?
                After all, he is the flesh of the Russian intelligentsia.
        2. Senior seaman
          Senior seaman 17 October 2020 11: 22 New
          14
          Quote: kalibr
          Well, and Dostoevsky had to be locked up in a psychiatric hospital from the very beginning. Nobody would die without his books!

          This is all you need to know about the attitude of Russian liberals to freedom of speech.
  2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 October 2020 07: 39 New
    12
    Pavel Petrovich is an interesting personality, being a "tyrant" he was the first of the Russian monarchs to swear in the "vile class".
    It was during his reign that the "wholesale" purchase of peasants for the "Kamensk (Ural) factories" stopped. Only one supreme displeasure was enough to block the flow of peasants from central Russia. From this moment on, breeders have to deal with the redistribution of labor resources within the provinces. The competition is reaching such proportions that indigenous peoples, who are registered as serfs in yurts, will take advantage of the Stroganovs' privileges !!!
    Real and mining schools and colleges appeared. The possibility of a social lift arises. The shortage of labor resources forms the institution of elites and mining plants. Under Demidov, a master is a “downtrodden craftsman”. Since the beginning of the 19th century, it has been a valuable resource for which they build houses, marry, groom and cherish, Since the middle of the 19th - a highly paid serf, sometimes with an income no less than the owner! True, there was also the flip side of the medal of the policy of Alexander I, state factories began to slide into "military-regime colonies" !!! Form, contentment, plan !!!
    I will say more, under Alexander II, the serfs were even forgotten to release on time.
    But the paradox of "liberalism", after the abolition of serfdom, the Urals blazed no weaker than under Pugachev (albeit quietly without blood). Due to the cancellation of benefits, mowing and land, in private factories there is a flow of "defaulters". The program of which was simple, go through the forest with your freedom, it is better to leave the mows for our cows!
    Well, somewhere like that!
    Vyacheslav Olegovich thanks for the article, sorry for running ahead.
    1. kalibr
      17 October 2020 07: 48 New
      +4
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      sorry to get ahead of myself.

      No, you very well reflected the specifics of Siberia. Then all this will manifest itself ... There is a wonderful novel by E. Permyak "The Humpbacked Bear". It is interesting for adults to read, and it is useful for their adult children to read, and it is useful for older children to read. In a word, a very interesting book. It just tells about the problem of mowing, and much more ...
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 17 October 2020 11: 01 New
        +4
        Quote: kalibr
        There is a wonderful novel by E. Permyak "The Humpbacked Bear".

        One of my favorite books as a child.
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 October 2020 17: 44 New
        +4
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        sorry to get ahead of myself.

        No, you very well reflected the specifics of Siberia. Then all this will manifest itself ... There is a wonderful novel by E. Permyak "The Humpbacked Bear". It is interesting for adults to read, and it is useful for their adult children to read, and it is useful for older children to read. In a word, a very interesting book. It just tells about the problem of mowing, and much more ...

        Vyacheslav Olegovich, surprisingly, this work of Permyak passed me by! Found it in the library and with rapture rustling the pages! Thanks a lot!!!
        1. kalibr
          17 October 2020 20: 02 New
          +2
          Vaughn Ivan wrote that his favorite book. By the way, mine too ... But read carefully. There Mavrik, on the boat, asks questions ... to which he does not receive answers-ha-ha! And the Russian village paternalism is described very well!
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 18 October 2020 13: 40 New
      +3
      Pavel Petrovich is an interesting personality, being a "tyrant" he was the first of the Russian monarchs to swear in the "vile class".

      Pal Petrovich had seen enough of the riotousness of the nobility in the presence of mamma. And when he came to power, he generally went crazy with how long the cases were being considered. He became aware of a case when two commoners were in prison for almost 20 years, because their case has not yet been considered!
      Hence the installation of the petition box for the Emperor ... request
      Pavel "ruled the country manually." Possessing limited life experience (when mama's lovers, younger than you, wipe their feet on you, and you yourself sit in Gatchina as a recluse) and a high level of imagination and romanticism, he considered that the best structure of Russia is in ordering and regulating all, even small, norms behavior. As an example, we can say that all the houses in St. Petersburg were repainted in the colors he established, and residents were ordered to wear certain forms of clothing. No top hat - wear cocked hats! Later, Pavel "bit the bit", and his actions, when he didn’t like something, took on the character of explosions (with battering, as to Admiral Chichagov Jr. - the same one who later lost Napoleon at Berezina).
      Wild energy, impetuous actions, explosions, followed by abundant rewards for the guilty - that's all the irrepressible Paul. The Tsar did a lot of good things. But with his unpredictable disposition he left an unkind memory of the nobility, who wrote his history ...
      On the good for the army: Paul ordered the introduction of an overcoat. He ordered the building of barracks for the soldiers. The Preobrazhensky regiment was generously given gold and meat, the horse guards also treated the emperor well ... And these are just a few of his actions. soldier Allegedly introduced the Prussian uniform? No, the coattails were longer on our uniform. And the reason? I would venture to suggest that a good economy of cloth was obtained. Moreover, if you already have an overcoat, why do you need a long uniform? hi
  3. Olgovich
    Olgovich 17 October 2020 07: 41 New
    0
    It turned out that if the land of the nobles is their property, and the peasants are attached to this land, then even by the will of the emperor, it is, in fact, impossible to take the land away from them, because to do so would mean encroaching on the economic foundation of liberalism itself!

    The way out was known and from the same France is the redemption of land. Or rent it.

    But Russia was not yet ready for this.
  4. Icelord
    Icelord 17 October 2020 07: 48 New
    0
    Thank you Vyacheslav Olegovich, as always everything is clear and intelligible
  5. Plantagenet
    Plantagenet 17 October 2020 07: 56 New
    +3
    “I, Alexander Mikhailovich, sometimes ask myself: is a socialist or anarchist system possible in Russia? And in all conscience I must answer: possible, very possible. And then I think something else: is restoration of serfdom possible in Russia? And I also have to honestly answer: why not, it’s quite possible ... Does it really matter which houses to build from sand? ”

    Mark Aleksandrovich Aldanov "Key" 1928
  6. prior
    prior 17 October 2020 08: 20 New
    +2
    Enough of the liberal rot in Russia.
    And to whom it is not enough, read or re-read "Unclean power" by Valentin Pikul.
    Liberalism encourages all the worst that is in human essence, bashfully hiding behind the concept of "freedom".
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 17 October 2020 08: 36 New
      -1
      Oh, this Pikul, obscurantist, antesemite, and the history is terribly distorted, what are the literary examples today, one more disgusting than the other. If you want genius chernukha, you should not read Dostoevsky, but watch Tarantino
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 October 2020 09: 47 New
        +7
        Quote: prior
        Enough of the liberal rot in Russia.
        And to whom it is not enough, read or re-read "Unclean power" by Valentin Pikul.
        Liberalism encourages all the worst that is in human essence, bashfully hiding behind the concept of "freedom".

        I don’t remember which of the classics said, “the dose distinguishes the poison from the ambrosia”!
        Pluralism, democracy and liberalism - as legal concepts, are far from evil. The problem is different, what is behind this, what is invested in the meaning of this word !!!
        For example, in ancient Hellas, the word “demagogue” initially did not carry a negative connotation, figuratively speaking, the personalities “representatives of this community” spoiled it!
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 17 October 2020 10: 21 New
      +4
      Yes, Pikul, of course, is an authority figure ... for schoolchildren. laughing
      1. Icelord
        Icelord 17 October 2020 12: 11 New
        +2
        Yeah, Konstantin, but not only here they love to refer to him, apparently he raises self-awareness, like Zadornov. But what really should be proud of and do not know
      2. Icelord
        Icelord 17 October 2020 14: 35 New
        0
        Someone so Pikul loves minus shamelessly laughing come on, you touched the icon, you paduma
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 October 2020 17: 19 New
          +8
          I adore the work of V. Pikul and had the sin of referring to the latter, but I give you pluses !!! hi
          I thought about something else.
          V. Krapivin, V. Pikul, A, Tolstoy, V. Skot, M. Druon, A. Dumas and many other Authors, or rather their works - gates beyond which there are many roads!
          Having mastered ten sheets of Tsushima Novikov-Surf in the third class, I found an application with the performance characteristics of ships of both squadrons! I “swallowed” the book in three weeks! I didn't understand anything, I came to the conclusion “I'm not a monomaniac”! Further, exactly without anguish and emotions, Treasure Island, Captain Blood's Odyssey, Red Corsair passed through me.
          Only in the fifth grade I ran into Vladislav Krapivin, or rather his story "The Shadow of the Caravel" and I got carried away, I raved about the sea, corsairs, pirates and battleships! I reread Tsushima, Treasure Island, Odesya and scolded myself why, after reading them for the first time, I did not hear the call of the ocean, the thunder of guns and the taste of salt!
          The next gate was “Requiem for the PQ-17 caravan” by V. Pikul, perhaps it was the second book of the tragedy after Tsushima, when he realized that pirates, cannons and sails are nothing - they are just the backyards of history! Then there were many gates, barriers, gates and even sewer hatches. There were victories and disappointments that a writer is not a guarantor of truth, but truth happens without a good end. But I always found time to reread three authors who found their way to my heart: Krapivin, Pikul and A. Tolstoy !!!
          I have the honor, your Vlad!
          1. Kwas
            Kwas 17 October 2020 18: 32 New
            +5
            And my favorite marine painter is Sabatini. But besides, I was lucky, as a child I also came across: "Treasure Island", books by Cousteau, Heyerdahl, "Port Arthur", "Tsushima", "Battleships in battle", "War at sea" (Nimitz), elegantly illustrated photos "Foreign military fleets 1946", and much more. As a result, plasticine fleets, room battles and the desire to read EVERYTHING about the sea appeared!
            1. kalibr
              17 October 2020 19: 59 New
              +2
              Quote: Kwas
              And my favorite marine painter is Sabatini. But besides, I was lucky, as a child I also came across: "Treasure Island", books by Cousteau, Heyerdahl, "Port Arthur", "Tsushima", "Battleships in battle", "War at sea" (Nimitz), elegantly illustrated photos "Foreign military fleets 1946", and much more. As a result, plasticine fleets, room battles and the desire to read EVERYTHING about the sea appeared!

              Did you make floating ships out of plasticine?
              1. Kwas
                Kwas 17 October 2020 21: 04 New
                +5
                Yeah. but more "floating on the floor", where he arranged battles.

                Here, I left a little as a keepsake.
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 October 2020 21: 12 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Kwas
                  Yeah. but more "floating on the floor", where he arranged battles.

                  Here, I left a little as a keepsake.

                  Gorgeous, my admiration !!!
                  1. kalibr
                    17 October 2020 21: 21 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                    Gorgeous, my admiration !!!

                    And my!!!!!
                2. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 17 October 2020 21: 38 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Kwas

                  Here, I left a little as a keepsake.

                  Pretty boy! But for some reason you never showed them to me. It's a shame, yes!
                  It will be necessary, somehow, to stop by, see (if you do not mind, of course).
                  All my notebooks were painted with boats. He made it out of wood, glued it out of paper ... but I didn't think of plasticine.
                  1. Kwas
                    Kwas 18 October 2020 09: 48 New
                    +3
                    Yes, come in, I'll show you! But by the way, I just had them lying far away on the closet, in my father's room. And you rarely visited me, and even usually on your days. By the way, at one time, Pasha and I staged four big battles! But he, I think, completely destroyed his fleet long ago. A serious man, teacher, KFMN, etc.
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 17 October 2020 20: 46 New
              +6
              Namesake, good evening! hi
              I would add Shtilmark's "Heir from Calcutta" to your list, and from serious historians Samuel Morrison, Neil Fergusson and Admiral Friedrich Ruge's book "War at Sea 1939-1945"
              After all, I also sculpted entire fleets from plasticine and pasted over the bottoms with "gold" from chocolate for the convenience of rolling them on the parquet. I had a ledger-book on foreign fleets for 1943 and with notes from the previous owner about "freshly sunk" ships.
              Yes, there was also Georges Blond and his "Great Hour of the Oceans". smile drinks
              1. kalibr
                17 October 2020 21: 10 New
                +2
                Quote: Sea Cat
                Yes, there was also Georges Blond and his "Great Hour of the Oceans".

                !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Only I made floating ships - battleships, and shot them from a cannon with balls from a bearing ...
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 17 October 2020 21: 19 New
                  +4
                  A toad would have seized me to drown its creatures with its own hands.
                2. Kwas
                  Kwas 17 October 2020 21: 28 New
                  +4
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Only I did floating ships - battleships,

                  I tried, but the skill was not enough. How the hell did they swim with you? And my dad and I made a radio-controlled cruiser. More precisely, at least 95% of it was made by my dad, unobtrusively arousing interest in electronics.
                  1. kalibr
                    18 October 2020 08: 12 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Kwas
                    I tried, but the skill was not enough. How the hell did they swim with you?

                    I did it first. Then he described it in two books: FROM EVERYTHING UNDER HAND and WHEN LESSONS ARE DONE. The technology is simple. A skeleton is made: a diametrical bulkhead, frames ... Then the skin and the deck. Difficulty rolling out a flat sheet of plasticine half a meter in size. When the body is ready, ballast-shots are poured into it. Then superstructures and towers are molded. Inside are empty, it's clear why. Then it can even be painted with nitro enamel from spray cans. Inside you can put motors with propellers and batteries. Swims perfectly. But it's better not to keep it in the heat !!!
                    1. Kwas
                      Kwas 18 October 2020 09: 34 New
                      +2
                      Oh no fig yourself! My admiration! fellow And respect. hi But this is how much plasticine you need !!! In my childishness there was simply not so much. And yes, it was not very good with reservoirs.
              2. Kwas
                Kwas 17 October 2020 21: 12 New
                +5
                "The Great Hour of the Oceans" got caught quite recently, I haven't read the rest. As Kozma Prutkov used to say, "You can't grasp the immensity!" More recently, I read Bronevsky's "Notes on Senyavin", about his archipelago expedition.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 17 October 2020 21: 17 New
                  +3
                  Read Ruge, otherwise everyone read the beaten generals, but not very admirals, by the way, he spoke about the artillery training of our fleet with a simple definition - "beyond praise", but otherwise not very ...
                  And Shtilmark has just an interesting adventure-pirate novel, written by him during his imprisonment in the Gulag. smile
                  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 18 October 2020 13: 28 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    And Shtilmark has just an interesting adventure-pirate novel, written by him during his imprisonment in the Gulag.

                    Constantine, the story of the writing of "The Heir" is perhaps even cooler than the story itself!
                    Shtilmark wrote his novel, without reference books, encyclopedias and dictionaries !!! A pack of paper, a pencil and a kerosene lamp !!!!
                    At the same time, a minimum of mistakes, I remember only one from memory! Along with frigates, schooners and battleships, the "Heir" featured the "Good Bouillon" caravel (I may be wrong in the name). Well, there were no caravels at that time! The book is still amazing - Spain, England, Italy, North America and Africa, the Pacific Islands - culture, nature, customs. Amazing reading!
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 18 October 2020 22: 16 New
                      +2
                      caravel "Good Bouillon" (I may be wrong in the name)

                      Almost exactly - Boule Tone - the name of the city where the events took place in England. This caravel was subsequently drowned by the privateer "Three Hidalgo" when he went to break out of the ring of British ships.
                      By the way, I also first learned about Fergusson's carbines from this book - the famous hunting office of "their lordship".
                      I read Shtilmark's memoirs about how the book was written, the idea belonged to a contractor in the zone Vasilevsky and the book was intended as a gift to Stalin, so the main condition was - not a word about Russia. The first edition, published in World of Adventures, had two surnames, Shtilmark and Vasilevsky.
                      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 19 October 2020 04: 46 New
                        +2
                        In my library, the third edition of The Heir. The afterword to it contains a voluminous description of the events preceding the publication of the novel.
                        The book is worthy of adaptation, but I'm afraid no one among modern producers would dare to take a shot at such a plot.
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 19 October 2020 07: 39 New
                        +3
                        I AM ALSO SURPRISED THAT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WAS NOT FIND A DIRECTOR to film this book. What a plot !!! There will be enough series for twenty. smile
            3. Korsar4
              Korsar4 17 October 2020 22: 19 New
              +3
              Also Stanyukovich. And "Around the World on the Kite" and stories. And Jules Verne cannot but remember. Moby Dick was caught late. Masterpiece.
          2. kalibr
            17 October 2020 21: 12 New
            +2
            Have you read the sequel to Port Arthur by Stepanov, The Zvonarev Family?
            1. Kwas
              Kwas 17 October 2020 21: 22 New
              +1
              No, I only heard, but then. And by that time I had already learned that in fact there was no Zvonarev, but the main characters were collective.
              1. kalibr
                18 October 2020 08: 14 New
                0
                Read it, Constantine. In many ways, the encyclopedia is only a household one. But there is also a war there and there is a lot of information about Taon.
              2. Senior seaman
                Senior seaman 18 October 2020 10: 16 New
                +1
                Well, Boreiko, for example, is real, but he did not participate in the defense of Port Arthur.
                Tifontai was not a spy, and Gantimurov was a coward and a traitor ...
            2. Senior seaman
              Senior seaman 18 October 2020 10: 14 New
              +1
              Not to me, but read :)))
              Moreover, it somehow happened that at first the second part about the war, and only then fell into the hands of the first one about the revolution of 1905.
              I still can't understand how Boreiko and Blokhin together washed away from Novogeorgievsk :)))
              1. kalibr
                18 October 2020 11: 11 New
                +1
                I don't remember ... I read it about 30 years ago ...
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 17 October 2020 21: 10 New
          +3
          Good evening, Vlad! hi
          I swallowed "Tsushima" at the age of twelve, first the second volume, then the first, then there was Kostenko "On the Eagle in Tsushima". And how great was the disappointment in the authors, whom I considered almost the ultimate truth, when later it turned out that they were, to put it mildly, inaccurate.
          I read Pikul at a mature age, I had not yet worked in a museum, but there was a strong connection with the men who worked there, besides there were familiar naval officers from the headquarters of the fleet, they also really wanted Lunin to put torpedoes into this "big oh wy ", but ... they were all sober people and had their own information. So with Pikul I was very careful in assessing the information that he gave out. Well, and then it turned out that he had more than enough open lies. He is only a talented novelist, but certainly not a historian. And historians themselves regularly sin against the truth, so why ask a simple writer?
          As for Alexei Tolstoy, if Pikul wrote his books "at the behest" of his soul, then Tolstoy was exclusively by order, and you know the name of the customer.
          Vladislav, each of us has the right to his opinion, I do not argue with yours, I just express my own opinion.
          smile drinks
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 October 2020 21: 32 New
            +4
            Konstantin, I often argue on this topic with VikNik. There are authors who, with their anguish, charisma and syllable, touch on the problem with a brushstroke. So if in my childhood A. Tolstoy with his "ordered Peter" was not there, I had no thirty works about him on my shelf, from meager monographs to the weighty "Collection of decrees of Peter I".
            Given the lack of specialized literature on the Russian-Japanese war, I defended my school essay based on dictionaries and fiction. Today, having an immeasurable store of knowledge on this issue, I quietly wonder how I did!
            But yes, back in 1995 it was a sensation at school, to defend an essay on the topic of "defeat", "the topic of taboo." However, teachers, on this war, had even more scanty knowledge. So I could shine as a subscriber of five magazines.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 17 October 2020 21: 38 New
              +3
              Regarding the author's talent, I completely agree, both Tolstoy and Pikul certainly have it, but you cannot study history from their books, I’m just talking about that.
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 18 October 2020 06: 04 New
                +2
                Quote: Sea Cat
                Regarding the author's talent, I completely agree, both Tolstoy and Pikul certainly have it, but you cannot study history from their books, I’m just talking about that.

                From them you start to love history! We already have to study with other authors.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 18 October 2020 07: 30 New
                  +4
                  For me this love began with Stanyukovich.
                  And there was another very good book "Frigate Drivers".
          2. kalibr
            18 October 2020 08: 15 New
            +3
            It is a pity that no one mentioned Chapygin ... His novels "Stepan Razin" and "People Walking" are classics of the historical novel.
            1. Senior seaman
              Senior seaman 18 October 2020 10: 19 New
              0
              But for me, not that they did not come at all, but ... the language was heavy.
              1. kalibr
                18 October 2020 11: 13 New
                +2
                "I have fornicated with a goat, I am accursed ... I lit three candles and laid my hand on them, until the desire for fornication has not died out in me ..." - Yes, his tongue is difficult!
                1. Senior seaman
                  Senior seaman 18 October 2020 13: 32 New
                  +1
                  And I was still a teenager :))) The scene when Razin dug up a woman, and then went to her house, of course, interested me ...
                  1. kalibr
                    18 October 2020 13: 43 New
                    +1
                    But I like "People Walking" more ...
        3. Senior seaman
          Senior seaman 18 October 2020 10: 09 New
          +1
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          I found an application with the performance characteristics of the ships of both squadrons!

          Moreover, data with errors !!!
  • Silhouette
    Silhouette 17 October 2020 10: 21 New
    +4
    I call death

    This time Shpakovsky has produced brilliant material about liberalism! The first words of the epigraph - after all, this is the essence of all liberalism. Liberalism is destruction and death. And the fate of the Russian nobility is a vivid evidence and confirmation of this. Liberalism killed the Russian nobles, cut them down and expelled them from the country, depriving them of both freedom and property. Could it be otherwise? .....Of course not! Why? Yes, because Shpakovsky himself ends his article with a completely logical conclusion, which is the essence of all liberalism:
    It was a contradiction, which they never managed to get out of.

    And no one has succeeded and will never succeed!
    The fact is that in every liberal the left hemisphere of the brain is not on friendly terms with the right one, emotions struggle with common sense, come into conflict, and liberalism is obtained - destruction and death.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 17 October 2020 12: 13 New
      +2
      The British managed somehow request
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 17 October 2020 14: 31 New
        +4
        And even after the Victorian era? During it, they undoubtedly succeeded, while the Indians and almost the entire rest of the world worked for them. It began to work out worse after WWI. And after WWII - everything finally ended for them.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 17 October 2020 14: 33 New
          0
          Duc and Alexander are not our contemporary. Everything flows, everything changes (c)
          1. Icelord
            Icelord 17 October 2020 15: 58 New
            0
            Minus for what? Contemporary yes? Oh, those communist janitors on the internet
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 October 2020 17: 34 New
              +5
              Quote: Icelord
              Minus for what? Contemporary yes? Oh, those communist janitors on the internet

              Minus apparently for this laughing
              Quote: Icelord
              Thank you Vyacheslav Olegovich, as always everything is clear and intelligible

              You have once again taken away from me the opportunity to receive the Order of the Thrice Unctuous sycophant of the renegade professor, first degree !!! lol
              However, I'm not offended! By the way, minusers for a kind word to the Author traditionally go over all your comments, sculpting minuses without reading. Viktor Nikolaevich sometimes gets them for devastating criticism of Vyacheslav Olegovich, well, to the heap. So with baptism, in our company of cat lovers! By the way, a pet is welcome and not necessarily a cat or a cat!
              Sincerely, Vlad!
              1. Icelord
                Icelord 17 October 2020 20: 12 New
                +2
                My respect, Vladislav hi ... I have a cat, but a week ago for some reason I decided to jump from the fourth floor. I searched for four days, found on a tree preparing for an inglorious death. I barely took off I had to call the lamplighters' car. Now he walks on three legs in a cast. Photo trying to insert write too much weight. In general, the British blue
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 October 2020 21: 10 New
                  +3
                  I have a Siberian chinchilla Sonya at home, not a registered breed. In 2011, they were taken from the breeders for a pack of dry food, as a culling (because of the black stripe on the back). She is on the profile picture.
                  hi
            2. Kwas
              Kwas 17 October 2020 18: 34 New
              +3
              It would have been for what, they would have been fucked up!
  • Silhouette
    Silhouette 17 October 2020 10: 31 New
    +1


    [quote] until better times, which, however, did not come until 1825. [quote]


    Are you sure that the best times in Russia came in 1825? And can you somehow prove or confirm this message? Why not 1916?
    1. Senior seaman
      Senior seaman 17 October 2020 11: 03 New
      +8
      Quote: Silhouette
      Are you sure that the best times in Russia came in 1825?

      It was about Speransky. Specifically for him - they came.
  • iouris
    iouris 17 October 2020 10: 59 New
    +1
    Do not confuse "liberalism" and "foreign agency". If you call the foreign agent a "liberal", then you can give the values ​​and the whole country for plunder by "real liberals" who have "genuine values" and "genuine democracy."
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 17 October 2020 11: 21 New
    +9
    Alexander the Blessed is a very characteristic figure for Russian liberalism. A liberal in thought, he was an absolute Eastern satrap in his methods of action. The path to freedom in his understanding looked like this: - men build up in the morning on the outskirts, chase you luckily with a stick!
    It should be noted that if he could not, then at least he tried to make certain categories of his subjects happy. The serfs in the Ostesei provinces were freed, Poland was granted a constitution, Finland was generally treated kindly more than any measure. But the Russians didn’t get much on this attraction of unprecedented generosity. Neither the nobles a constitution with a parliament, nor liberation from the fortress for the peasants ...
    although it’s me so right away ... military settlements - that's what the crowned liberal gave his people!

    Manifesto of August 30, 1814
    Our faithful people, may they receive their bribe from God.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 17 October 2020 12: 17 New
      +5
      I went to my grandmother. Catherine loved the philosophers of egalitarianism, Rousseau, for example. And at home she led a completely different policy
  • ee2100
    ee2100 17 October 2020 11: 25 New
    +5
    "When society does not have a color differentiation of pants, then there is no goal!"
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 17 October 2020 12: 08 New
    12
    There are no unambiguously bad or unambiguously good phenomena, and liberalism is no exception. At one time, it was the most advanced ideology that allowed mankind to take several significant steps forward on the path of its social development.
    Now, in my opinion, liberal ideology is in a deep crisis and is more a brake on the development of society than a stimulant. Of course, some basic provisions of liberalism, such as equality of all from birth before the law, freedom of speech, thought, creativity, religion, remain relevant to this day, but some, the same basic ones, it seems to me, need a global revision.
    For example, the sanctity and inalienability of property, in my opinion, needs to be adjusted in terms of the freedom to dispose of this property, its alienation, including by will. In this regard, significant restrictions are required, which is categorically at odds with the position of classical liberalism. However, otherwise property in the form of capital accumulates and will continue to accumulate in the hands of a limited circle of people, passing by inheritance, which leads to a gigantic stratification of society on a literal planetary scale and, accordingly, to crises of the same scale. Smart people even now, it happens, transfer, for example, acquired collections or bequests to museums or charitable foundations. It is possible to oblige the owners of various large enterprises to do the same at the legislative level, only to transfer them to state revenue. For Russia, this is especially important in terms of correcting the results of the privatization of the 90s. smile
    Personally, I would also revise the principle of the presumption of innocence, limiting its extension to certain categories of civil servants and entrepreneurs. Roughly speaking, an official or an entrepreneur will have to prove that he is not to blame for the occurrence of any negative factors, since his guilt in certain, strictly specified cases will be presumed and will not require proof, and all doubts will be interpreted in favor of the prosecution.
    In short, my opinion is this: liberalism as an ideology in the era of globalization of everything and everyone, in the form in which it exists now, has outlived itself and needs a radical, deepest modernization in accordance with current conditions, or in replacement with another ideology, which is, in fact, the same thing. Let's say "thank you" to him and move on. smile
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 17 October 2020 12: 29 New
      -1
      Your comment only proves that liberalism is the inspirer of all dictatorial regimes.
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      Roughly speaking, an official or an entrepreneur will have to prove that he is not to blame for the occurrence of any negative factors, since his guilt in certain, strictly specified cases will be presumed and will not require proof, and all doubts will be interpreted in favor of the prosecution.

      Brilliant!
      And to whom exactly, these categories of citizens should not understand what to prove? and why they, and for example, not - philosophers, poets, writers, why these, are exempted from such obligations.
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      liberalism as an ideology in the era of globalization

      Like this? Here, either liberalism or globalism, no other is given.
      The modern liberal, at the moment, is a kind of lumpen intelligentsia, they are still twitching, but their time has passed.
      1. Icelord
        Icelord 17 October 2020 12: 37 New
        +1
        And whose, then, let me be curious about it? It was already this, in Germany humiliated by the Versailles Peace
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 17 October 2020 13: 05 New
          0
          Quote: Icelord
          And whose, then, let me be curious about it?

          Anarchy, liberalism has outlived its usefulness - the liberal economy, culture, politics, interstate relations are in a complete impasse, which we are witnessing.
          Experiments are being carried out, which we are not only witnessing, but also a kind, we ourselves are - experimental rabbits.
          The most interesting is ahead.
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 17 October 2020 14: 47 New
        +2
        Quote: bober1982
        Your comment only proves that liberalism is the inspirer of all dictatorial regimes.

        Apparently, he unequivocally proves only that it is better not to read my comments for some categories of citizens. Even if you, a person whom I believe, in principle, is no more stupid than most of the users of this resource (with a certain discount on the topic of religious conviction), understood it so in your own way, I can imagine what others can imagine ...
        I will try to answer your questions, although I doubt that I will be understood correctly by you. I'll take a chance. smile
        Quote: bober1982
        And to whom exactly, these categories of citizens should not understand what to prove? and why they, and for example, not - philosophers, poets, writers, why these, are exempted from such obligations.

        First of all, the proposals I made are exclusively my "reflections on the topic", not a political program. These reflections are based on the following idea: in any country, power can be converted into money, and money into power. This is called corruption and it is everywhere. A person who has reached certain heights in business or in power structures, thus, certainly gets an advantage over the rest of his fellow citizens. And the higher he climbs, the more these advantages increase, unbalanced by nothing, no "vulnerabilities". So, in order to maintain a balance, they need to create these vulnerabilities, and why not do it this way? An official or a businessman, going to the next level of his career, will know that he is becoming more vulnerable, gaining something, losing something, will be forced to make his life and activities more transparent, since any doubt is not in his favor, and therefore more honest. This will be a kind of price that will need to be paid for a high position in society or the use of material wealth. Therefore, not philosophers and poets.
        So clearer?
        Quote: bober1982
        either liberalism or globalism, there is no other way.

        Have you read what I wrote? Again:
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        liberalism as ideology in the era of globalization everything and everyone, in the form in which it exists now, has outlived itself and needs a radical, deepest modernization

        For clarity, I will add that it is in the era of globalization that liberal values ​​turn into a breeding ground for the emergence of totalitarian states, because the ability to concentrate huge financial resources in our hands and use the modern information space allows one person or one small group of people to impose their will, point of view and concepts to millions and even billions of others who will meekly follow them.
        Quote: bober1982
        The modern liberal, at the moment, is a kind of lumpen intelligentsia

        If you are for equality from birth, freedom of speech, thought, religion, if you are for equality of all before the law, for the inalienability of property, then you are a typical liberal. If you only willingly use these achievements of liberalism, but deny liberalism itself, then you are the same liberal only ... a little strange. laughing And the lumpen intelligentsia now, rather, stands on a national-patriotic platform, stands up for Stalin and the USSR, no matter how unthinkable it may seem (national-patriots and a convinced internationalist Stalin with the internationalist USSR wassat ). Liberal values ​​among them are not in vogue. smile
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 17 October 2020 15: 26 New
          -1
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          understood him so differently

          We will never understand each other, we are in different worlds, in different dimensions. Everything is simple here.
          Vyacheslav Olegovich clearly outlined the whole essence of liberalism, on an unsuccessful statement about Fedor Mikhailovich.
          When the internationalists, by the way, Stalin never was, they came to power - all or almost all thinkers, philosophers and clever people were floated on a barge abroad, that is, got rid of them. They understood what abstruse reasoning and conversations could lead to, then there is to ferment of minds, and then to riots and carnage.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 October 2020 17: 42 New
            +4
            Hello honest company!
            If from the bottom of my heart I don't even want to discuss this topic!
            I'll just lay out the numismatic rarity: "walking freedom"!

            Who has what associations?
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 17 October 2020 17: 51 New
              -2
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              Who has what associations?

              Freedom is like a corrupt girl with her hair down.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 17 October 2020 17: 57 New
                +2
                Look closely. She is wearing a headdress, like a cap. wink
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 17 October 2020 17: 59 New
              +3
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              numismatic rarity: "walking freedom"!

              Vlad, I greet you, why is it rare?
              Are there quite a lot of them on the * bag * / internet auction /? In the sense of similar coins. winked
              I can't tell from the photo if it's a dollar or 50 cents?
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 October 2020 20: 03 New
                +2
                Sergei, the devil only knows!
                I am not a numismatist, I was looking for ideas for wood crafts, I saw it for 1600 rubles at an auction. I thought expensively, and blurted out. Associations for every taste and color, better only a map of Africa and a red highlighted country Liberia !!! Although there is definitely not enough space for the flight of thought !!!
                Regards, Vlad!
            3. Korsar4
              Korsar4 17 October 2020 22: 23 New
              +2
              Botticelli.

              "And I always think about them" (c).
    2. Kwas
      Kwas 17 October 2020 18: 42 New
      +4
      You are probably a psychic, and through the Internet you read my thoughts! Almost to the point!
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 17 October 2020 20: 29 New
        +3
        You, next time you are going to think, do not forget to wear a tin foil hat.
        Thoughts are such a quick thing that if they are not screened, they will immediately be transferred from you to another. Then prove that you thought them first! wassat
        But seriously, I also mostly agree with Mikhail. Only this part is in doubt:
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        Smart people even now, it happens, transfer, for example, acquired collections or bequests to museums or charitable foundations. It is possible to oblige the owners of various large enterprises to do the same at the legislative level, only to transfer them to state revenue.

        Due to the fact that, in my opinion, it will not be possible to implement it in practice.
        1. Kwas
          Kwas 17 October 2020 20: 59 New
          +2
          I agree. In practice, it is easiest to remove enterprises with hired labor from the right to bequeath. That is, in a nutshell, transfer them after the death of the founder to public use. This is not a collection - you can't hide it!
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 18 October 2020 11: 29 New
          +1
          Quote: HanTengri
          impossible to implement in practice

          I think if you think about it carefully, it is possible. The problem is that those who are now writing laws are thinking exactly the opposite. smile
          1. Kwas
            Kwas 18 October 2020 20: 01 New
            +2
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            The problem is that those who are now writing laws are thinking exactly the opposite.

            That's for sure. They are thinking about how to provide property guarantees more firmly, and more income. But for some reason, this causes associations with the famous aphorism of Bismarck, about guarantees that are not worth (when the time comes) the scrap of paper on which they are written. And such a time will definitely come if the leadership of the ruling class does not grow wiser.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 18 October 2020 21: 11 New
              +2
              Quote: Kwas
              unless the leadership of the ruling class grows wiser.

              The whole class should grow wiser, and at the same time. In any case, his majority. And to "grow wiser" in this case is to give up a significant part of what was acquired, including that acquired by the ancestors. And not in favor of the descendants, the blood of their own, but in favor of some ephemeral "people", which most of them do not even consider for people. So it's unlikely. History such precedents, in any case, are unknown. The only way out is war.
              Therefore, a big storm is coming - a clash of outdated capitalism with its already irreparably outdated liberal basis and socialism, behind which, probably, the future. Contradictions are irreparable. A global massacre of destruction is inevitable between the United States and China, and the sooner it begins, the better for the United States, because in twenty years China, with such a pace of development, will be invincible. In principle, this war is already underway, the situation is heating up from year to year, the only question is when it will turn into a hot stage and what will be the place of Russia in this war.
              I think it's time to prepare food caches in the forests away from major cities and train the skills of survival in the wild without gasoline and electricity.
              I'm almost completely serious now. smile
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 19 October 2020 00: 17 New
                +2
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                The whole class should grow wiser, and at the same time. In any case, his majority. And to "grow wiser" in this case is to give up a significant part of what was acquired, including that acquired by the ancestors. And not in favor of the descendants, the blood of their own, but in favor of some ephemeral "people", which most of them do not even consider for people. So it's unlikely.

                Michael hi, this is exactly what I meant when I spoke about the "impossibility to implement in practice":
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                oblige at the legislative level the owners of various large enterprises to do the same, only to transfer them to the state's income.

                Quote: Trilobite Master
                The only way out is war.
                Therefore, a big storm is coming - the clash of outdated capitalism with its already irreparably outdated liberal basis and socialism, behind which, probably, the future ... etc ...
                Well, here ... now you, already, and my thoughts, practically, literally, quoted ... Here, it seems, one of two things: either my foil is not kosher, or a hat of an outdated design, or we are really on the doorstep grandiose nix. what
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 19 October 2020 09: 49 New
                  +1
                  Quote: HanTengri
                  we are, indeed, on the verge of a grandiose nix.

                  I would not like to, but they will not ask us. If it was possible to change the planet and observe from a distance how something will happen there, there is no better show, I would have already bothered to buy a ticket. smile And so ... request
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 18 October 2020 11: 24 New
        +1
        read my thoughts via the internet

        They say that fools' thoughts converge ... laughing
  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 17 October 2020 12: 44 New
    +7
    "i] Well, the provisions of the" Declaration ... "became the basis for all liberals of that era, including, of course, the provisions of the previously adopted US Constitution of 1787."[/ i]

    Great declaration!
    "We look at the book, we see a fig."
    The head is the dependence of the rights and freedoms of the individual on the nation and society. And even the measures of coercion are described.
    But Shpakovsky is no stranger to attracting something "by the ears." Not his, however, "swamp".
    Surprisingly, the former member of the CPSU and the propagandist of Marxism-Leninism did not hear anything about the contradictions between production relations and productive forces. Therefore, he pushes his theory of liberalism. And, after all, liberalism (not the rights and freedoms of an individual) is one of the sides of capitalism, as well as fascism. And speaking about the inviolability of property, he is silent that we are not talking about cowards with socks, but about the means of production.
    In general, "the further into the forest, the more firewood."
    PS Reading such works and reflections of a historian, you begin to wonder, History is a science or not? wink
    1. Silhouette
      Silhouette 17 October 2020 14: 20 New
      +7
      Shpakovsky is never a historian. He is a propagandist and a liberal. It was and remains so.
      1. kalibr
        17 October 2020 16: 29 New
        +7
        Quote: Silhouette
        Shpakovsky is never a historian. He is a propagandist and a liberal. It was and remains so.

        And he is also an English spy, a Japanese spy, an agent of the US State Department, a Pole and a Jew in one person, and my grandfather is a Polish general, and a certain girl without a name writes me articles ... Yes, also - just like me who destroyed the USSR, and then "on the ruins of a mosque ..."
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 17 October 2020 19: 34 New
          +3
          Quote: kalibr

          He is also an English spy, a Japanese spy, an agent of the US State Department, a Pole and a Jew in one person, and my grandfather is a Polish general, and a certain girl with no name writes me articles ...

          Oops!

          Not expected! laughing laughing laughing
        2. Icelord
          Icelord 17 October 2020 20: 37 New
          +2
          And being a Pole is very bad right? And then I like that ... repeat like he is the most
          1. kalibr
            17 October 2020 20: 39 New
            +1
            Even receiving grants from the Russian Foundation for Humanities is bad here. For some. Because they heard the word grant in the context that it is "byaka" and all this is "from there", but they do not know the abbreviation RHNF. And the Jews and the Poles, again for some of whom were not so few, are the very best ... only the Americans and the British are worse!
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 17 October 2020 20: 54 New
              +3
              Well, that's it, I'm finished, I'm also every year, besides this, it's understandable, I live in the USA for two months
              1. kalibr
                17 October 2020 21: 05 New
                +1
                And where do you get a suitcase with bucks? Are they invited to Washington or are they brought directly home? I have a meeting with an MI6 agent in Venice at the carnival at the Doge's palace. Now they flew by due to the virus. Ay-ay. I have a costume Pierrot, wife Piaretta, granddaughter of Columbine, and he ... when in what!
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 17 October 2020 21: 12 New
                  +2
                  So I'm not a citizen of Russia, they won't give me a suitcase, I can't decompose, but it's a pitycrying
                2. Phil77
                  Phil77 17 October 2020 21: 17 New
                  +3
                  Quote: kalibr
                  carnival at the Doge's palace.

                  1. kalibr
                    17 October 2020 21: 20 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Phil77
                    carnival at the Doge's palace.

                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            2. Phil77
              Phil77 17 October 2020 20: 55 New
              +4
              Quote: kalibr
              Americans and British!


              What kind of company is being selected! However. laughing
    2. Icelord
      Icelord 17 October 2020 22: 07 New
      0
      And to whom should we give these means of production?
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 17 October 2020 22: 21 New
        +3
        Quote: Icelord

        And to whom should we give these means of production?

        And to whom do you think they were given the last time?
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 17 October 2020 22: 23 New
          -1
          Well ... whoever did it and took it. But here is a theory, the Soviet one failed miserably. So who cares?
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri 17 October 2020 22: 30 New
            +2
            And yet, who was it? Who could dispose of this property, in their own interests, legally? Who could pass it on to their heirs, again, by law? And, most importantly, who appropriated to themselves all the surplus product produced?
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 17 October 2020 22: 31 New
              0
              All major fortunes in the world are acquired by criminal means. ( from)
              But where you have to start, so for everyone. Name an alternative
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 17 October 2020 22: 48 New
                +4
                You would be more careful ... So, after all, you can sink to communism! After all, to steal from a thief, to rob a robber, to set a swindler is a good, and even noble ... laughing
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 17 October 2020 22: 52 New
                  0
                  This is what is called the stage of wild capitalism. Then it settles down. I personally do not see an alternative
                  1. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 17 October 2020 23: 23 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Icelord
                    This is what is called the stage of wild capitalism. Then it settles down.

                    Proceeding from the fact that capital is a self-increasing value, the process of "settling down" will last until some thread from the TNC devours all the others.
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 17 October 2020 23: 25 New
                      -1
                      No, it doesn't work that way, and why, it's difficult, they tried to explain to me, but I'm not an economist. Poorly understood. In short, the law should interfere. You read economists, they will definitely better explain
              2. Phil77
                Phil77 18 October 2020 07: 01 New
                +2
                Quote: Icelord
                All major fortunes in the world are acquired by criminal means. ( from)
                But where to start,

          2. Was mammoth
            Was mammoth 18 October 2020 12: 17 New
            +2
            Quote: Icelord
            But here is a theory, the Soviet one failed miserably. So who cares?

            Quote: Icelord
            Then it settles down. I personally do not see an alternative

            For three decades these thoughts have been hammered into my head by various methods. Including this article.
            Yes, there was a creeping counter-revolutionary coup. Yes, the Soviet Union was destroyed. And, as the author correctly put it, Shpakovsky made his contribution.
            The achievements of science, medicine, industry, social guarantees in the USSR and their influence on the whole world are visible even now with the naked eye.
            You asked a question. Some of it is in the answers. Get educated. wink
  • Operator
    Operator 17 October 2020 12: 57 New
    +5
    Russian emperors, in principle, were not "the first nobles" (even if they foolishly declared it) for their subjects, since the class of nobles historically descended from courtyard people - slaves of tsars (bed-keepers, grooms, butlers, stirrups, etc.).

    The tsars formed a new class of confidants in opposition to the old class of boyars - free landowners who hindered the establishment of absolute autocracy.

    The nobles were endowed by the kings / emperors with land in the form of estates with the status of temporary land use (the land remained in the ownership of the kings / emperors and could be taken from the landlords at any time for no reason). The boyars owned their lands - fiefdoms on the basis of the right of private property and in this regard were equal to kings / emperors, fiefdoms could be taken away only in case of violation of criminal law.

    For example, the boyar Kuchka, who owned the patrimony with the village of Moskov (now the city of Moscow), violated the decree of Grand Duke Yuri Dolgorukov and did not appear at the gathering of the boyar militia in the city of Kiev. In this connection, the Grand Duke took the Kuchka's patrimony into his property, and he himself was put in a dungeon in Kiev.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 17 October 2020 13: 09 New
      +2
      I never thought that I would agree with you. But you are absolutely right
  • Operator
    Operator 17 October 2020 13: 15 New
    -2
    Quote: Icelord
    You are absolutely right

    Note - always laughing
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 17 October 2020 13: 46 New
      +4
      Pride is a sin. negative
      PS By the way, I put it plus
  • Kwas
    Kwas 17 October 2020 14: 25 New
    +7
    Noble (and any) liberalism is a progressive phenomenon, at a time when the smartest representatives of the ruling class begin to understand the danger of a social revolution. But at the same time, of course, they want to "still eat caviar, but not sit on the pitchfork at the same time." In this case, their usual fate is not to find understanding from either side. Until liberal ideas find understanding among the masses of the ruling class, the people are already thinking only about the pitchfork. And the current bourgeoisie in Russia is no more far-sighted than the Russian nobles of the late XNUMXth - early XNUMXth centuries!
  • Tests
    Tests 17 October 2020 15: 18 New
    +6
    The history of his native country is full of mysteries, and therefore very interesting. The respected author inserted portraits of Mordvinov and Speransky by Alexander Grigorievich Varnek - academician and honored professor of the Academy of Arts. The son of Alexander Grigorievich - Ivan Alexandrovich was an academician of architecture of the Academy of Arts. And his grandson, Alexander Ivanovich Varnek, went to the navy, where he rose to the rank of lieutenant general for the admiralty. Alexander Ivanovich did not like the RSFSR categorically and he emigrated from Crimea to Turkey, and ended his life in France in 1930. Considering the merits of Alexander Ivanovich in the long-term exploration of the Arctic Ocean and its seas, or maybe something else, the Bolsheviks named a new settlement on Vaygach Island in the early 30s Varnek. But how many geographical objects were renamed after 1917? There is a Varnek bay on Vaygach, let the village be Varnek. And it doesn't matter what rank was Alexander Ivanovich? Why? The mystery of the history of the native country ...
  • motorized rifle
    motorized rifle 17 October 2020 15: 19 New
    +3
    Caliber:
    Well, and Dostoevsky had to be locked up in a psychiatric hospital from the very beginning. Nobody would die without his books!

    Yes, you can feel the many years of stay in the CPSU! Radical denial from the party positions, then move away from the party "culture", purification, start with yourself, you are not at a party meeting. They abandoned the communist worldview, now try to abandon their methods of rhetoric.
    1. kalibr
      17 October 2020 16: 22 New
      +3
      Motorized rifleman! And if I hadn't written like that, would there have been so many responses and clicks + -? Think, maybe you need to look at it from a different plane?
  • Tests
    Tests 17 October 2020 15: 41 New
    +1
    Sea Cat (Konstantin), dear, current schoolchildren of Pikul do not know, checked. I checked it with the students of the tenth cadet school, and the students of the sixteenth military-sports orientation, with the humanities from the 8th and 14th gymnasiums, with mathematicians and physicists from the 17th lyceum. Pikul's kids didn't read it. And the fact that his books could only be obtained by handing over the waste paper in the mid-80s was not heard at all ... Although in my native Severodvinsk the clever people from the City Administration left a 2-story wooden wreck at the intersection of st. Industrialnaya and Polyarnaya as a monument of regional significance, the house where the pioneer Valka Pikul lived for less than 2 years. True, now in the Administrations of both Severodvinsk and the region do not know what to do with the oblique-curve from rot, eaten from the inside by a fungus, a house born in 1939.
  • kalibr
    17 October 2020 16: 11 New
    0
    Quote: Silhouette
    And you will have happiness, honor and respect.

    There is it all!
  • Icelord
    Icelord 17 October 2020 16: 52 New
    +2
    Hey minus, answer me, not that the minuses bother, just wondering what does not like that
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 17 October 2020 18: 58 New
      +3
      Quote: Icelord
      Hey minus, answer me, not that the minuses bother, just wondering what does not like that

      Igor, don't get your hopes!
      1. Icelord
        Icelord 17 October 2020 20: 19 New
        +1
        Good day, Sergey hi It's a pity, well, it’s stupid to do that. Isn't it disgusting ourselves?
  • Iskazi
    Iskazi 17 October 2020 18: 58 New
    +5
    boring propaganda ..., designed for the average reader ..., wretched, primitive, without a spark ..., retelling of the brochure Mutiny on "Ochakovo" ..., and this opus will find its fans ...,
    1. kalibr
      17 October 2020 19: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: Iskazi
      on the average reader.

      Dmitriy! You can't be such a snob. "Average readers" are people too. And they have the right to receive the information, and to the extent that suits them as much as possible.
      1. Iskazi
        Iskazi 17 October 2020 20: 54 New
        0
        I will not argue, of course they have the right ..., and let them get what questions ...,
    2. Icelord
      Icelord 17 October 2020 20: 27 New
      0
      To anyone else, for example, I understand the history of weapons, but I am interested in history in general, and since I am an amateur, and not a pro, I did not know much of what was written in the article. And I was wondering. So it will find fans
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 17 October 2020 20: 37 New
    +1
    It's funny that, being the first nobleman of Russia, Emperor Alexander was at the same time a fully convinced supporter of all the basic principles of liberalism.
    it's not funny, it's indicative that a liberal came to power by slamming his father, by the way, really one of the best tsars in the Romanov dynasty
  • Phil77
    Phil77 17 October 2020 21: 00 New
    +2
    Quote: Icelord
    And being a Pole is very bad right? AND

    Who is it easy for now, and who is it easy for? wink
  • Phil77
    Phil77 17 October 2020 21: 28 New
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    and he ... when in what!

    Vyacheslav Olegovich! Is that he? Excellent disguise! good
  • sunzhenets
    sunzhenets 17 October 2020 21: 38 New
    +2
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Silhouette
    Shpakovsky is never a historian. He is a propagandist and a liberal. It was and remains so.

    ... Yes, also - just like me, they destroyed the USSR, and then "on the ruins of a mosque ..."

    Well, here to the point. It was thanks to the party apparatchiks who despised the working class and did not believe in the socialist idea that the collapse of the Union became possible. In this you are similar to Gorbachev and Yeltsin.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 17 October 2020 21: 59 New
      +1
      No, it's not true, Vyacheslav Olegovich is more likely to look like Lukashenko, who has lost a lot of weight)))
  • Phil77
    Phil77 17 October 2020 22: 25 New
    +2
    Quote: Icelord
    Lukashenko, who has lost a lot of weight)))

    Igor! Oh, is it ?! And how do you like this? wink

    Well, it is clear that with some amendments!
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 17 October 2020 23: 32 New
      +1
      ABOUT! Mozovich! This is where the craving for invention comes from, and they say the transmigration of souls is fake
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 18 October 2020 06: 58 New
        +1
        Quote: Icelord
        ABOUT! Mozovich!

        Good morning! And who is Mozovich?
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 18 October 2020 07: 11 New
          +1
          hi John Moses Browning
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 18 October 2020 07: 24 New
            +2
            Quote: Icelord
            John Moses Browning

            Sorry, you have a mistake! Portrait of Samuel Langhorn Clemens. He is Mark Twain! wink
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 18 October 2020 07: 25 New
              +1
              Well, yes, now I see, but I’m turning all sorts of Twains on mine somewhere on the periphery of consciousness request
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 18 October 2020 07: 28 New
                +1
                Quote: Icelord
                but I will turn all sorts of Twains on mine somewhere on the periphery of consciousness

                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 18 October 2020 07: 31 New
                  +1
                  Here. After all, the same is similar, right?
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 18 October 2020 07: 33 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Icelord
                    Here. After all, the same is similar, right?

                    Shpakovsky V.O. on Mark Twain? Looks like it! laughing
                    Browning on Twain? Far away! laughing
                    What is common? Mustache! Mustache shape.
            2. Icelord
              Icelord 18 October 2020 07: 29 New
              +1
              And in general, in the book "Yankees at the Court of King Arthur," he walked through my favorite armor so much that I want to kill. But he died long ago. Alas
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 18 October 2020 07: 31 New
                +2
                Quote: Icelord
                walked my favorite armor,

                * I am an artist, as I see it! * laughing wink laughing
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 18 October 2020 07: 33 New
                  +1
                  The American nation has no traditional reverence for chivalry request
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 18 October 2020 07: 35 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Icelord
                    American nation

                    So it's a young nation, teenagers!
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 18 October 2020 07: 37 New
                      +1
                      By historical standards, this is generally the case for children, but what they like is not looking for Hyperborean roots
                    2. Icelord
                      Icelord 18 October 2020 07: 39 New
                      +1
                      While looking ... negros
    2. Icelord
      Icelord 18 October 2020 07: 21 New
      +1
      Here it turns out it is necessary to explain. Mozovich is John Moses Browning. Sorry for the specific contraction
  • Valeriy A. Proskournin
    Valeriy A. Proskournin 22 October 2020 23: 14 New
    0
    thanks, great article!
    just realized:
    both these categories / concepts are set only in pairs: property and debt, otherwise there will be no property without debt ...
    the essence of liberalism is that property is exalted, but duty is put into the shadows, from where lawlessness begins to grow already as "the established freedom of everything" ...