In the Polish press: Germans invest in old Marder infantry fighting vehicles

The German Bundestag has approved the purchase of new thermal imaging surveillance systems for Marder infantry fighting vehicles. Up to 244 pieces of equipment will be upgraded of this kind.

Writes about this Polish edition of Defense 24.

For 244 new thermal imaging systems for the Marder BMP, taking into account the installation and a set of spare parts, the German military department will pay about 27 million euros. This technique, which has been operated by the Bundeswehr since the early 70s, received such devices earlier, as part of planned upgrades. Today they are mainly used in the Marder 1A3 version and also partially in the Marder 1A5. Currently used devices of this class are outdated, so it became necessary to replace them.

This is another element of the process of improving German infantry fighting vehicles, implemented in recent years. In particular, earlier such BMPs received new communication systems. In addition, they were adapted for firing from the open hatch of the Spike / LR-LR2 ATGM instead of the outdated Milan anti-tank systems.

It is worth noting that the Germans are investing in the Marder BMP, despite the fact that the Bundeswehr should soon receive 350 new Puma infantry fighting vehicles. Berlin, it seems, came to the conclusion that the introduction of new technology simultaneously with the modernization of the existing one, which is soon planned to be removed from service, does not contradict logic in any way. Moreover, this is a prerequisite for the maintenance and gradual development of defense capabilities, because the Marder BMPs remain in service with the Bundeswehr until 2030.

This technique was created in the late 60s. In terms of the degree of security, it surpassed at the time of adoption all Western counterparts that existed at that time, and the high speed made it possible to use these BMPs together with tanks leopard.

Comments

[Lesorub]

Berlin, it seems, came to the conclusion that the introduction of new technology simultaneously with the modernization of the existing one, which is soon planned to be removed from service, does not contradict logic in any way.

The Germans, after withdrawing from service these BMPs, will always be able to sell them to the same NATO members, and modernization is the right step - the Poles can only write what the neighbors have there)

[Pereira]

They should stand in line until the Outskirts with the Romanians came running.

[Insurgent]

In the Polish press: Germans invest in old Marder infantry fighting vehicles

Somehow the Poles are looking rather intently (with jealousy or fear?) In the direction of the Bundeswehr ...
Strange ... As if sort of ally...

[Amin_vivec]

There were 244, they should have been replaced by 350 - an increase in combat capabilities of 43%
And if 244 + 350 are quite combat-ready units, then this is already an increase of already 243%
Such interesting mathematics, the Poles all the time tried to compete with the Germans, without much success, though)))

[Aaron Zawi]

27 million euros for Germany is not money.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

27 million euros for Germany is not money ......... prala. to fight alone with us in the next 100 years, Frau will not be compared. and under the leadership of the hozdep, if the war begins, then, in principle, a good car for looting supermarkets and gas stations in conditions of high radiation, and other looters will fight off robust enough ... in short, a bunch of burghers in the right direction

[Russ]

The subtext is felt ... It would be better if the funds were transferred to the Poles ... free of charge, so to speak, i.e. for nothing ...
They, in turn, have already found the best use for denyuzhk ...
You can't envy in silence ...

[avdkrd]

Marder is a serious car. The envy of Soviet motorized riflemen in the Western Group of Forces. In general, conceptually, the German approach to BMP, I personally like more domestic. Of course, the troops need floating vehicles, but to ensure buoyancy, all domestic infantry fighting vehicles sacrificed armor. Even Kurganets will not provide a level of protection to Marder, the potential for modernization of which is not limited to the thermal imager.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

The envy of Soviet motorized riflemen in the Western Group of Forces. ....... this is from the category of nonsense ..... what would any technique be jealous of it is necessary to get acquainted with it in detail ... and if you please tell how motorized riflemen got acquainted with the muzzle ???
but to ensure buoyancy All domestic infantry fighting vehicles sacrificed armor ..... they brought it right, the European theater of the DB is full of rivers and rivulets, while the 28-ton "muzzle" will wait for the pontoon park, then from the rear, unexpectedly, pehi may appear, and Now the question is for you ... to keep such a "protected" and highly armored chest like a "muzzle" shots from RPGs and portable ATGMs, well, and other anti-tank weapons? Even the ancient PTRD 14.5 mm 30 mm armor is like a knife in butter ... And there's also a trick in airmobility. our pehi can be stupidly delivered by helicopters just to the field, for a muzzle flight you only need a Hercules-type truck with an equipped airfield
and now to practice in confirmation of the above .... "On the night of October 16, a very small Israeli detachment consisting of seven PT-76 tanks and eight BTR-50P crossed Bolshoye Gorkoye Lake at the junction of the 2nd and 3rd Egyptian armies and seized a bridgehead on the Egyptian coast. "..... and then the complete defeat of the Egyptians followed, and yes, that the PT-76, that the BTR-50 were essentially, as they say," cardboard "..... here you are amphibiousness

[avdkrd]

Regarding the acquaintance, there was such a magazine Foreign Military Review, where all those interested got acquainted with the possibilities of the adversaries. There was a file in my company, in the break room.
It is true that the ETVD is full of rivers, but BMPs by themselves cannot conduct combined arms combat. Are they going to fight many tanks? Tanks also need pontoons ...
30mm armor is better than 13, which do not hold 7.62 from all angles, the frontal projection at Muzzle holds 30mm bps, and the sides and stern of the "ancient" ptr 14.5 mm (its design with such requirements).
Regarding the capture of platzdarms, I agree, without floating equipment, such operations turn into a massacre, but all equipment of a tank (motorized rifle) regiment can only be transported by pontoons. For a hidden crossing, as in the case of the Israelites, you need amphibious equipment, and not BMP, but tanks. However, the bmp3's firepower at a high level of 1 and 2 is not even close. Your example confirms what I meant. The Israelis in the troops regularly have heavy infantry fighting vehicles, and they develop operations to seize platzdarms and sabotage according to needs.
At the same time, the Kunitsa still has a huge modernization potential, including modular, hinged armor and weapon modules of any power. The bmp3, especially in the version with the front MTO, is a good car, but it is for the last war. The concept of application is the same as for 1,2, and there will be no breakthroughs to the Channel over the radioactive ruins of Europe. The possibilities are not the same. Marder is not the best BMP, but the concept itself, where motorized rifles have a higher level of protection, is better.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

where motorized riflemen have a higher level of protection, ...... you Andrey missed my question, I repeat .... ". hold such a" protected "and highly armored chest as a" muzzle "shots from RPGs and portable ATGMs, and of others anti-tank weapons? this is taking into account the fact that at the moment there is an incredible amount of them (anti-tank weapons) in local conflicts.
Marder is not the best BMP, but the concept itself .... Andrey. the dead-end concept of the BMP is especially important at the moment, airmobility and amphibiousness are important, and firepower. what does this firepower have to be at least somehow covered by anything ... look at the placement of firepower on the Muzzle .... yes there will be enough Chinese firecrackers to disable

[silverwolf88]

Modernization is a normal trend in the world ... especially since the BMP is quite successful for its time ... it is still useful now ...

[Tsoy]

With regards to junk ...
The other day in Taiwan, an m-41 walker bulldog crashed. Designed in 1946. Began to enter service with them in 1958. Yes, it was upgraded to the m-41d ​​version, but still. A total of 700 units were delivered.

[Jager]

Recently there was a video where the broads from the ATGM T-34/85 were hit.

[Tsoy]

Recently there was a video where the broads from the ATGM T-34/85 were hit.

It would be cooler if from a faust cartridge or ptrd. ;)

[Jager]

So the PTRD was actively used, and probably used in the Donbass)
And in Syria, ZIS-3 are used.

[Tsoy]

So the PTRD was actively used, and probably used in the Donbass)
And in Syria, ZIS-3 are used.

And they say network-centric war ...

There was such a fool in the DPR. Separatist rifle. 23 mm.

https://iz.ru/706414/2018-02-09/v-dnr-ispytali-samuiu-krupnokalibernuiu-v-mire-snaiperskuiu-vintovku-separatist

[Egoza]

sometimes "old" is much better than new designs.

[zwlad]

And to us "partners" and their sips from all the irons broadcast that our technique is outdated. And that the defense capability of the Russian Federation tends to zero.
And then suddenly the technique of the 70s is still relevant. Oh how.

[strelokmira]

And then suddenly the technique of the 70s is still relevant. Oh how

This technique, unlike the BMP-1/2, holds a large-caliber machine gun without any problems and protects paratroopers well when hitting a mine.

[Alien From]

So the gentlemen are pulling their nose into someone else's garden ...

[Maxwrx]

The marder had good protection, but now it is considered not enough. Declares 30mm forehead from 400 meters., 14,5 sides. 400 meters is too much. But there are more advanced guns and shells for them. Marder's 20mm cannon is rather weak.
The cougar has a forehead up to 45mm, sides 30 mm, feed 14,5.
So far, a lot of old technology will go to the marder, but the threats to it are increasing, so 10 years is an adequate service life. And a thermal imager is needed to get away from it faster when identifying a strong enemy.

[orionvitt]

Normal option. Russia is modernizing old BMPs, why shouldn't the Germans do the same. Moreover, no one will come up with anything fundamentally new in the near future.

[Lara Croft]

We have learned how to modernize the BMP, the time of the XV ...

[Dmitry Makarov]

The Poles shudder at the strengthening of the Bundeswehr, and there is something.