Military Review

Hovburg Palace. Ephesian marble and bronze

226

The battle of the horsemen. It depicts a battle between the Ionian Greeks and the Galatians, in which the victory of the Greeks becomes apparent. The best-preserved scene shows to the right of the standard (signum) a Greek horseman in armor, whose horse leaps over a fallen Galata, and to the left of a foot Galati, who is trying to hide behind a shield. Before him is a fallen horse and falling Galatians. This image probably refers to the last Pergamon-Galatian War of 168–166. BC e., in which the king of Pergamum Eumenes II won a brilliant victory over the Galatians. In honor of the savior from the constant Galatian threat in Ephesus, as in Miletus, Sardis and Pergamum, monuments to Eumenes were erected, and this relief could belong to one of them. Artisticallyhistorical museum, Vienna


My song is to Artemis, golden-shot and noise-loving,
A worthy virgin, driving deer, arrow-loving,
To the one-uterine sister of the gold-plated Phoebus-lord.
While hunting, she is on the peaks open to the wind ...
Homer. Anthem to Artemis


Ancient civilization. The air of Turkey in the truest sense of the word smelled of the sea and the sun. And it has always been like this, even when no one even heard of any Turks here. But everyone has heard of the Greeks. And here they were in abundance, in fact, all of Asia Minor belonged to them, and the coast was Greek even before the Greco-Persian wars. And it was here that the city of Ephesus once stood, which was one of the most important cities of antiquity. It was here that the Temple of Artemis stood, which was one of the seven wonders of the world. This city was also the birthplace of the philosopher Heraclitus, as well as one of the largest early Christian communities. In Roman times, Ephesus became the capital of an Asian province with a population of about 200. However, if you happen to visit the place where this city stood, then you will not see either the ruins of the legendary temple or some impressive ruins. A single column in the middle of a field, and on top of it is the nest of a family of storks. That's all that's left of all this ancient splendor for a variety of reasons. However, in order to look at the monuments of ancient Ephesus, today it is not at all necessary to go to Turkey. Today, you can get acquainted with them in the center of Europe, in Vienna, where a unique collection of ancient antiques from this city is exhibited in the museum of the Hovburg Palace. Well, today we will tell you about what they are and how exactly they got to Vienna.


Eroths hunt lions. The stage wall of the Ephesus theater was one of the richly decorated architectural ensembles of Roman Ephesus. The three-story facade with columns, edicules and decor was also decorated with sculptures, including a relief frieze depicting hunting erots, stretching across the entire width of the stage, possibly in the area of ​​the basement of the second floor. Fragments of this frieze were found in the 1895th century and ended up in London and then in Vienna, since in XNUMX, excavations carried out by the Austrians began in Ephesus. On the relief, two winged eroths hunt lions with spears, and two dogs grab the lion by the hind legs. Remnants of red and brown paint, which were completely painted on the spears, are noteworthy. The composition of the frieze is typical of the Hellenistic era. Kunsthistorisches Museum, Vienna

And it so happened that after Schliemann's discoveries in Europe, a massive interest in the culture of Ancient Greece arose, so that both Greece and Turkey were literally flooded by European archaeologists. But if Schliemann was inspired by Homer's immortal Iliad, then there was a man among archaeologists who, a few years before him, was just as strongly inspired by the reports of historians of the past about the temple ... of Artemis in Ephesus.

And now inspired by his knowledge of the size, significance and wealth of the Temple of Artemis, British archaeologist John Turtle Wood, who collaborated with the British Museum, was able to rediscover this ancient site in 1869. But contrary to expectations, the list of found items turned out to be so modest that excavations here were soon stopped. And why so is understandable. No finds - no money! That is, the British were not lucky there. But ... but they soon got lucky in other places, Schliemann successfully excavated Troy, and it turned out that the Austrian archaeologists, who, of course, also rushed to Greece, got only the island of Samothrace, which they, incidentally, successfully explored in 1873 and 1875.


Hermes. The young god can be identified as Hermes by the wings attached to his head. The face of the "messenger of the gods" is framed by sharply cut sickle-shaped curls. The head is a reconstruction of an image of Hercules, created by the Greek sculptor Polycletus in the second half of the 1895th century BC. Created. The head was found in the port baths in the first year of the Austrian excavations at Ephesus, 430. Made in the middle of the XNUMXnd century. AD, after a bronze original circa XNUMX BC Kunsthistorisches Museum, Vienna

However, it took a full twenty years before the Austro-Hungarian monarchy decided to conduct large-scale research in the Eastern Mediterranean region, received a carte blanche from the Turkish government for excavation, and from 1895, that is, much later than other European countries, began research on the spot. ancient Ephesus. But the most interesting thing is that this work continues here and today, with the efforts of all the same Austrian scholarly historians. And these excavations, which have been going on here for more than a century (although they were interrupted by two world wars), still continue to provide answers to many questions regarding this ancient city.

Hovburg Palace. Ephesian marble and bronze

Modern reconstruction of the appearance of the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus

The fact that the Austrians were able to settle in the Ephesus region for such a long time and work there systematically and carefully, of course, bore fruit. Until 1906, numerous finds of exceptional value were brought to Vienna, which today can be seen in the Ephesian Museum, an appendix to the collection of Greek and Roman antiquities.


But what can be seen on the site of the "wonder of the world" today: one column, an Islamic mosque and a Byzantine fortress ...

The most interesting artifacts: a Parthian monument, an Amazon from the altar of Artemis, a bronze statue of an athlete cleansing himself after the competition, and a child with a goose.


Here is this "child"! The sculpture is very dynamic and therefore curious. The little boy depicted on it tries to get up, but in this vain effort shifts his body weight to the left, as a result of which he unintentionally presses the goose to the ground with his left hand, and stretches his right hand up, as if seeking help. It is a Hellenistic bronze model of the group attributed to Boethos. The marble group was installed in the ceremonial hall of the Ephesian baths. It dates back to the XNUMXnd century AD, but it is based on a bronze original from the XNUMXrd century BC. Kunsthistorisches Museum, Vienna

But this is only part of the extensive collection of Ephesian marbles on display at the Ephesian Museum in the New Castle of Hovburg Palace.


Interior view of the halls of the Ephesus Museum in Vienna

However, in addition to financing these works, an additional motivation for their implementation was the agreement between the Ottoman Empire and Austria. The fact is that Sultan Abdul Hamid II officially made a generous gift to Emperor Franz Joseph: he presented several ancient objects discovered by scientists to the imperial house, which made it possible to take them out of Turkey quite officially and ... to replenish the collection of Hovburg in Vienna.


You can admire the collection of Hovburg marble from Ephesus not only standing, but also sitting

The value of the finds was so great that their delivery from Turkey to Austria was carried out by the ships of the Austrian naval fleet... At first they were kept (and periodically exhibited!) In the Temple of Theseus in the Volksgarten. However, after the promulgation of the 1907 Turkish Antiquities Law, the export of antiques from Turkey was prohibited; no more such finds have been reported to Vienna.


Apotheosis of Lucius Vera. A man dressed as a Roman general climbs a chariot drawn by four horses. Nika (Victoria), the goddess of victory, holds the reins, Virtus, the personification of efficiency and virtue, leads the march. Under the horses sits Tellus, the earth, the goddess of fertility with a cornucopia. After A.D. 169 Kunsthistorisches Museum, Vienna

After the collection was kept in various makeshift rooms for many years, the Vienna Museum of Ephesus was opened in its current form in December 1978 in the "New Castle" section of the Hofburg complex. Visitors are presented with a very interesting selection of Roman sculptures that once adorned the public buildings of Ephesus during the Roman era, including the extensive thermal baths and the Ephesian theater. A number of architectural elements give a complete picture of the splendor with which Roman buildings, usually with ornate facades, were finished, and the layout of the ancient city provides a better understanding of the corresponding arrangement of objects in its topography. Along with all this, the highlight of the collection is the so-called Parthian monument, and a series of Roman reliefs, unique both in size and in their craftsmanship.


Octagon. In the center of the city of Ephesus, right in front of the houses on the hillside, at the end of the 40st century BC, a building was built, which was named "Octagon". In its square base there is a burial chamber, over which an octagonal stepped structure was erected, surrounded by a colonnade. The fact that the tomb was erected within the city indicates the special situation of the deceased. The bones of a young woman were found in the sarcophagus. It is suggested that this is the tomb of Queen Arsinoe IV. This Egyptian princess was born in XNUMX BC and, at the instigation of her sister, the famous Cleopatra VII, was killed in Ephesus. Kunsthistorisches Museum, Vienna

The scientific study of the finds from Ephesus today is carried out in close cooperation between the University of Vienna, the Austrian Academy of Sciences and the Austrian Archaeological Institute. By the way, in Turkey itself, the ruins of Ephesus and the local museum are visited by about two million tourists annually. And today it is the most popular place in the country after the Hagia Sophia and Topkapi Palace in Istanbul. Well, the local Ephesus Museum is an important addition to the Austrian exposition in Vienna.


But this bronze sculpture is already known to readers of VO. There was material about her. Or rather, not quite about her ... There are several such figures, conventionally called "Purifying". The fact is that after playing sports and competing on the palaestra, athletes cleaned themselves of oil and dust with the help of strigilis, a curved scraper. The sculpture depicts a young man holding a strigilis in his hand and cleaning himself with it. It is interesting that all the attention of the young man is directed to this, in itself, a secondary process. The statue was assembled from 234 fragments found in the palaestra of the port school in Ephesus. The statue is a copy of Roman times, based on a lost original from the late 330th century BC. It cannot be ascribed with certainty to any Greek artist, but further Roman repetitions in marble and reproductions on clay reliefs and gems of stones prove the high level of awareness of the Romans about the original and its popularity among them. It is believed to have been created in the 192st century AD and based on a Greek original from around XNUMX BC. The height of the figure is XNUMX cm. Kunsthistorisches Museum, Vienna


Hercules fighting a centaur. A bronze sculptural composition 50,8 cm high. Found in the same place as the figure of the "Purifying One", but made later. Most likely, the tree served as a leg for the lamp, which, unfortunately, has not survived. An exquisite thing, once again evidence that the Romans loved to surround themselves with beautiful things, including even the most utilitarian ones. Second half of the XNUMXnd century A.D. By the way, this is also a gift from Sultan Abdul Hamid II to Emperor Franz Joseph, like other artifacts presented here. Kunsthistorisches Museum, Vienna

So the Ephesus Museum in the New Castle of the Vienna Hovburg Palace Museum is a pleasure for true connoisseurs of antique sculpture and architecture. The fact is that only a small part of the collection is located in its large rooms, so each of its exhibits can be viewed in the most detailed way.

PS The administration of the site and the author would like to express their gratitude to the director of the museum, Dr. Georg Plattner, for permission to use photographs from the Kunsthistorisches Museum Vienna.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Warriors from the column of Marcus Aurelius
Prehistoric Argonauts
Riddle: riders on the bas-reliefs with clubs in their hands
Minoan Pompeii: a mysterious city on a mysterious island
Antique ceramics and weapons
Gold for war, the fourth wonder of the world and Ephesus marble
Homer's poems as a historical source. Antique civilization. H. 1
Croatian apoxiomen from the water. Ancient civilization. H. 2
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  1. tlauicol
    tlauicol 13 October 2020 06: 42
    +4
    Why is this: dozens of conquerors walked across Europe and Asia, but in some countries and cities we see antique palaces and villas, aqueducts and arenas, statues and temples, and in others a stone crumb and a fragment of a column? Take the same Italy and Turkey for example
    1. kalibr
      13 October 2020 07: 38
      10
      Well, in Italy, too, everything is "bombed out". Well, why break the aqueduct? Water flows along it. The barbarians understood this ...
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 13 October 2020 08: 39
        -2
        Quote: kalibr
        Well, in Italy, too, everything is "bombed out". Well, why break the aqueduct? Water flows along it. The barbarians understood this ...

        yes, yes, they broke it so much that they cannot restore it for thousands of years. Previously, they needed clean water from the mountains, but modern civilization does not need clean water. There is a turbidity from the Troyan aqueduct, which is not for drinking.
        1. kalibr
          13 October 2020 08: 42
          +7
          Quote: Bar1
          From the aqueduct of Troyan, some kind of dregs are not for drinking.

          There is nothing eternal. Times and ecology are changing, that's understandable.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 13 October 2020 10: 20
            +5
            Times and ecology are changing, that's understandable.
            Here the question was not about ecology, but about money. I wrote below.
        2. Undecim
          Undecim 13 October 2020 10: 11
          12
          yes, yes, they broke it so much that they cannot restore it for thousands of years. Previously, they needed clean water from the mountains, but modern civilization does not need clean water. There is a turbidity from the Troyan aqueduct, which is not for drinking.
          Bar, you are misleading people again.
          The modern aqueduct is just a restored, and not the same aqueduct that supplied Rome with drinking water intermittently until the XNUMXth century and which received water from springs around Lake Bracciano.
          I emphasize - from sources. By the end of the XNUMXth century this aqueduct was abandoned and not used for more than seven hundred years.
          By the early XNUMXth century, Roman suburbs west of the Tiber River, including the Vatican, were experiencing water supply problems, and the new Pope Paul V convinced the municipality of Rome to pay for the restoration of the aqueduct in order to provide a better water supply to this part of the city.
          Therefore, the aqueduct that we see today is already a XNUMXth century building. The new aqueduct was named both Acqua Sabbatina and Acqua Bracciano, but was eventually named Acqua Paola after Paul V.
          And the water in the new aqueduct was in no way inferior in quality to the one in the old one. The aqueduct ended with a monumental fountain - Il Fontanone. The fountain itself is worthy of an article.

          True, it was different from the one that we see today, it had five small pools instead of one large one. It is precisely in this reconstruction that the water in the new water supply system is not suitable for drinking.
          In 1690, Pope Alexander VIII decided to give the fountain a more majestic look. There were no problems with the restructuring, but problems arose with the increase in water supply for the new water supply system.
          The Manziana spring, which was used in the old water supply and provided half of all the water flowing through it, was by this time used to supply water to the watermills of Duke Paolo Giordano Orsini in the neighboring Duchy of Bracciano. The Duke's source refused categorically.
          Therefore, they did not come up with anything better than putting water from the lake into the water supply system. The fountain became beautiful, but it became impossible to drink water from the water supply.
          Today the water from the Roman fountains is not used for drinking. And the one that is for drinking is purified.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 13 October 2020 11: 25
            -4
            firstly, we have already spoken about aqueducts, you probably were not present.
            secondly, it is not necessary to show the fountain to which a modern water supply can be connected, it is necessary to show the stone aqueduct.
            Thirdly, well, it's nonsense that the water supply system worked for hundreds of years, then it didn't work for a THOUSAND years, but water was not needed, then it seemed to be restored. But for some reason they show only a fountain.
            As for the aqueduct of Troyan or Paul, it is the simplest in Rome.
            But the rest of the aqueducts DO NOT WORK and this only applies to Rome, in Rome there are several aqueducts that do not work. Why are they not restored?
            And the rest of the HUGE aqueducts, in Germany, Tunisia / Carthage, Segovia / Spain, France. Look at the photos of these aqueducts and it seems that this civilization does not need water. But water is ALWAYS needed.
            So I'll tell you why, but because this civilization is weak and can neither create nor repair the huge structures of the past civilization, pyramids, aqueducts, huge type of "Roman" temples.
            There were 11 Roman aqueducts !!! and now everyone is either not working or they are driving mud instead of drinking water or instead of a working aqueduct they slip a working fountain on us.
            And we are told that modern civilization is based on ancient civilization. The example of aqueducts shows that this is not so.
            http://eternal-city.ru/akveduki-chast-1-nemnogo-istorii/
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 13 October 2020 12: 21
              11
              Excuse my curiosity, how many times have you been to Rome?
              And the thought did not enter your alternatively functioning head that
              - near an ancient city with a population of 250 people and a modern city with a population of
              2 people need water slightly different, and not even by an order of magnitude;
              - that the water supply system, built 2 years ago, will not provide water supply for the modern city, not only in quantitative terms, but also in terms of ensuring sanitary standards;
              - that organizing the water supply of each apartment in modern buildings with ancient aqueducts is technically extremely difficult and looks stupid, for this there are pipes that they simply did not know how to make in those distant times.
              Bar, do not be offended, but you are ignorant.
              I will repeat what I wrote yesterday to your associate. You are a militant ignoramus. St. Demetrius of Rostov wrote back in the XNUMXth century about such militant ignoramuses like you, who talk about objects without knowing anything about them, for whom ignorance is a state of mind, and unwillingness to acquire knowledge is a principle.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 13 October 2020 13: 39
                  11
                  Bar, do not be offended, but you are ignorant. Moreover, you are rude, and you also have the audacity to complain to the administration that it offends you.
                  1. Bar1
                    Bar1 13 October 2020 13: 45
                    -5
                    Well, you are a deaf, slow-witted, as the old program was created for only one version, and everything else is not perceived.
                2. kalibr
                  13 October 2020 21: 12
                  +2
                  Quote: Bar1
                  people used to be healthy

                  This is especially funny. Those who survived were healthier than the deceased, who were dozens of times more survivors.
                  1. Bar1
                    Bar1 14 October 2020 19: 14
                    +2
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Quote: Bar1
                    people used to be healthy

                    This is especially funny. Those who survived were healthier than the deceased, who were dozens of times more survivors.

                    I mean before the Romanovs' colonization of Russia.
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 15 October 2020 18: 01
                      0
                      What is incomprehensible to me in your theory is how the great Turturians, Russoarians, who own almost the whole world, allowed colonization by some kind of Romanovs?
                      1. Bar1
                        Bar1 15 October 2020 21: 01
                        +2
                        Quote: Icelord
                        What is incomprehensible to me in your theory is how the great Turturians, Russoarians, who own almost the whole world, allowed colonization by some kind of Romanovs?

                        the fact that in the past the world burned in Russian is confirmed by works on deciphering the Etruscan languages ​​and Sanskrit, which are read in Russian. This is a fact. And what happened in the past and why everything has changed there are only assumptions. However, the phenomena of the civil war can very much explain a lot.
          2. Liam
            Liam 13 October 2020 13: 51
            +3
            Quote: Undecim
            By the end of the XNUMXth century this aqueduct was abandoned and not used for more than seven hundred years.

            Periodically rebuilt and used, e.g. by Pope Adriano I in 772, Pope Gregorio V in 846.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 13 October 2020 13: 57
              +6
              I wrote the commentary from memory, I could have made a mistake.
              1. Liam
                Liam 13 October 2020 16: 11
                +2
                The Duke's source refused categorically


                There is another version
          3. vladcub
            vladcub 13 October 2020 18: 05
            +3
            "Pope Paul 5 convinced the municipality of Rome", something tells me that in the 17th century the word of Paul 5 was much more significant than it is now. In the 17th century, there were only a few atheists, and they were forced to "listen" to the voice of the church. Do you know better for health?
    2. Normal ok
      Normal ok 13 October 2020 11: 52
      0
      Quote: Tlauicol
      Why is this: dozens of conquerors walked across Europe and Asia, but in some countries and cities we see antique palaces and villas, aqueducts and arenas, statues and temples, and in others a stone crumb and a fragment of a column? Take the same Italy and Turkey for example

      In addition to wars, climate and terrain change has a huge impact. Ephesus, for example, lost its significance due to the silted up bay on which it stood. Shipping and trade disappeared - the city fell into decay. People later began to build in another place.
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 13 October 2020 07: 05
    +7
    Last year we had a family vacation in Turkey and, just in the Ephesus region. But acquaintances, dissuaded from visiting the ruins - they already knew that the most interesting was taken out to Austria.
    Thank you for the good, interesting material, Vyacheslav Olegovich.
    1. kalibr
      13 October 2020 07: 37
      +8
      Glad you like it. Well, there is also a Venetian fortress there and it is well preserved. Although it is not for everybody to inspect empty walls with towers. Especially in the heat there.
      1. depressant
        depressant 13 October 2020 08: 56
        +3
        This is how the thread stretches from me to the Austrians - a common attitude towards culture. Maybe because I don't live among them. During World War II, locals hunted fugitive Russian prisoners. Only one family helped, hid it. But the thread stretches.
        To those, among whom she once lived, until the 92nd, - only a persistent disgust. They also hunted Russians. There are also ... cultures. I didn't accept it. Just like your balalaikas and ditties.
        Today, intolerance is drawn. Albums with photographs of marbles and bronze - everything remained there.
        The other day it made me want to watch a few videos about my city ... After all, I told myself: "Don't do this!" How many years did it hold on. And here ... In general, the Syrian cities destroyed by the war are much better. The desolation is complete. Only the building in the center is recognizable. Let's say centuries pass, a cultural layer forms. What will they find in it? Well, not like Ephesian marbles.
        And the thought came: did I have a past? Maybe this city is a bad dream? Yes, I sometimes see my house in dreams. It is strange and empty. My house was not where it should have been.
        1. kalibr
          13 October 2020 09: 02
          +7
          Quote: depressant
          And the thought came: did I have a past? Maybe this city is a bad dream? Yes, I sometimes see my house in dreams. It is strange and empty. My house was not where it should have been.

          Calm down, Lyudmila Yakovlevna! The past DOES NOT EXIST. This is all the delirium of our brain outside of which there is nothing. Mind game! Was there a Battle on the Ice? Who saw him? They say that it was ... that's all! Your photos? And who said that the pictures on them are not visions of your consciousness, but really nothing of this? Remember, there is no past, there is no future, there is only the elusive moment "now", when the sun is shining, the taste of bread on the tongue, the book is pleasant to read, and marble is pleasant to look at. But these are only ghosts of your consciousness. Rejoice that you have it and ... that's it!
          1. depressant
            depressant 13 October 2020 10: 28
            +2
            Here you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, are making fun of, but I perceive my past this way: it does not exist, only sometimes the general feelings of childhood are recalled. I try not to remember the past. Maybe because his conscience often hurts from him: I did the wrong thing, lived in the wrong place, the mistakes of my youth, etc. I only remember albums, separate things. And when you look into the future, it is dark. And it is not a fact that ruins will not soon be left from the beautiful Austrian museums. I don't want ruins, that's enough! Therefore, I exert strength with my useless voice to exclude their possibility. And you do not understand my aspirations. Actually, nobody understands.
            1. kalibr
              13 October 2020 11: 11
              +6
              Quote: depressant
              Here you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, are kidding,

              Why am I kidding? I want to reassure you, on the contrary ...
    2. AK1972
      AK1972 13 October 2020 12: 58
      +3
      In vain, you listened to your acquaintances, lost a lot. I also visited Turkey last year and visited Ephesus, near the town of Selcuk. I was delighted with this excursion. The ruins are very picturesque, the facade of the library with statues of muses is very beautiful, a theater, ruins of palaces, a marble road. After visiting Ephesus, the bus goes up the mountain to the house of the Virgin Mary, there is also interesting and amazing beauty. The Turkish guide in excellent Russian told the story of Ephesus, including about the Austrian excavations and the removal of historical values ​​described by Vyacheslav Olegovich. By the way, I made sure that it is better to choose with a local guide on the excursion. Turks love their country and its history very much, it is more interesting with them than with Russian guides. They mutter a memorized text, answering confused questions. Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you for the article, which caused pleasant memories! Exactly the same photo of the column of the Temple of Artemis with the Basilica of St. John and the fortress in the background was made by me, the impression was that I was shooting from the same point.
      1. kalibr
        13 October 2020 15: 41
        +3
        And there it is the most favorable angle, there the grass is even trampled ... I, unfortunately, have not been there, only in Vienna, but my daughter was there and - yes, everything as you told. It was very interesting. It's very hot though.
        1. AK1972
          AK1972 13 October 2020 15: 51
          +2
          I also can't stand the heat, so my wife and I went in the second half of May. The temperature is comfortable 18 degrees in the morning, 25-27 in the afternoon. I don't like warm water either, so the Aegean Sea is preferable for me to the Mediterranean - it is the coldest of the Turkish seas, and the water in it is the purest.
          1. kalibr
            13 October 2020 17: 46
            +3
            The water there is still the purest. But the time of departure, alas, depends on the place of work. So she and her husband have to ride in the heat!
  3. Operator
    Operator 13 October 2020 09: 31
    +2
    The Anatolian peninsula was and is inhabited not by Greeks, but by indigenous Anatolians (Y2). Another thing is that in different periods they were conquered by the Black Sea Aryans (R1a), Central Asian Cimmerians (Y2 + R1a), Celts-Galatians (R1b), Greeks (E1 + I2 + R1b), Persians (Y2 + R1a), Romans (R1b) and Turks (Y2 + C2). Nevertheless, the bulk of the Anatolian population still belongs to Y2 carriers - blood relatives of the majority of the population of Persia, Azerbaijan, Chechnya, Ingushetia, Central Asia and Afghanistan.

    After the first wave of migrants in the person of the Black Sea Aryans, numerous kingdoms arose in Anatolia, including Mitanni, and the coastal inhabitants of Anatolia became known as the peoples of the sea, who began to carry out sea raids on Phenicia and Egypt. The raids ceased after the Greek colonization of the Anatolian coast (see Trojan War).

    Unlike other migrants, the Greeks did not advance beyond the coastal part of the Anatolian Peninsula, from where the Turks drove them out in the first quarter of the 20th century.
    1. kalibr
      13 October 2020 12: 34
      +4
      The man managed to make an excellent commentary that complements the text of the article. No personal assessments, judgments ... I wrote everything correctly. Invented nothing. And suddenly someone puts a minus for it. Well, how long are we going to demonstrate our personal dislike for this or that person out of the tish. It's shallow, low, and mean. I do not like what is written - write what exactly, and indicate the source of your deeper knowledge.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 October 2020 19: 34
        +3
        Why?
        Moreover, the whole commentary will begin with your communist past, the Trilobite of the present and end with an attack on the cats of sycophants who assent to you !!!
        I don't hope to read anything new !!!
        Sometimes, on a boring day, they begin to miss the Oparyshev Peninsula, the rest of the Khlonolozhts are just his shadow and ashes.
        Best regards, Kote! Lizoblyud, platter, twice oily !!! laughing
  4. kalibr
    13 October 2020 11: 12
    +4
    Quote: depressant
    Actually, nobody understands.

    Naturally! You do not understand yourself often ...
  5. Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 13 October 2020 11: 51
    +6
    Yes, the boy with the goose is impressive ...
    There is also a continuation of this story. The boy has grown up. smile
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 13 October 2020 12: 07
      +4
      There is also a continuation of this story. The boy has grown up.

      I won't say about the boy, but I remembered an interesting bas-relief - an imitation of antiquity.
      In Gatchina, under Paul, a bas-relief "The Fight of Cupids" was placed by the sculptor F. Duquesnoy, early 1796th century. This work of art was brought to the element of the White Hall in XNUMX by the then favorite architect of Paul - the thieving Brenna. Unfortunately, the bas-relief was destroyed during the war and the Nazi occupation. Now in its place is a post-war plaster copy.
  6. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 13 October 2020 11: 57
    +7
    It is very good that Vyacheslav Olegovich has begun to publish more. Hope the site comes back in good times. When three articles were published every day, and each of us immediately ran to read and discuss what he liked. hi
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 13 October 2020 12: 26
      +3
      Hope the site comes back in good times
      "Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate" - once said a certain Durante degli Alighieri.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 13 October 2020 15: 00
        +5
        Victor, is it really that sad? smile
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 13 October 2020 15: 02
          +6
          They do not scream mad people, do not sow, but they themselves give birth
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 13 October 2020 15: 13
            +5
            Eck you all of us, or is it only for those in power?
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 13 October 2020 17: 12
              +4
              This applies exclusively to those who are themselves born, according to the theory of Daniel the Imprisoned.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 13 October 2020 18: 27
                +3
                "Normal babies are brought by storks, but the duck will be born themselves."
                Do you mean it? smile
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 13 October 2020 16: 06
      +6
      Quote: Pane Kohanku
      each of us immediately ran to read and discuss what he liked.

      Nikolay! And when to work ????? wink laughing Just kidding
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 13 October 2020 18: 03
        +5
        Nikolay! And when to work ?????

        So I'm an "office worker" request .. I can and stop for ten minutes ... read reading .. drinks
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 13 October 2020 18: 39
          +3
          Is there nothing else to do in the office? drinks laughing
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 13 October 2020 19: 16
            +4

            What about this beauty?
            Oh !!!!! It turned out !!!!!! It turned out !!!!!
            Patience and work will grind everything!
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 13 October 2020 19: 28
              +3
              "She entered the boudoir with a wobbly gait, slightly shaking her right breeches." (FROM) love
          2. Phil77
            Phil77 13 October 2020 19: 21
            +3
            Office worker!
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 13 October 2020 19: 33
              +3

              All professions are important, all professions are needed. good
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 13 October 2020 18: 30
        +3
        "Work is not a wolf, it will not run away into the forest." (C)
        laughing
        Hello, Sergey! drinks
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 13 October 2020 18: 37
          +5
          We have a master, a woman somehow gathered a brigade ... And she began: "Yes, you are all drunks, but I am all of you for the fence ...:
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 13 October 2020 18: 41
            +4
            Hi Vladimir! hi
            As for the master himself ... wink
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 15 October 2020 10: 03
              +2
              As for the master himself ...

              on Kirovskoe now they are sniffing at the checkpoint. hi I mean, they look closely at the view. I saw it myself.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 15 October 2020 10: 04
                +2
                Have a snack after that? laughing drinks
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 15 October 2020 10: 09
                  +2
                  Have a snack after that?

                  but I haven't seen this! laughing drinks
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 15 October 2020 11: 52
                    +3
                    It's okay - everything is as always and as written. laughing
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 15 October 2020 15: 27
                      +3
                      It's okay - everything is as always and as written.

                      The main thing is that without consequences ... what
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 15 October 2020 16: 19
                        +3
                        Come on, it's a shame ... It would be a shame the whole world would be sober ... and boring. laughing

          2. Phil77
            Phil77 13 October 2020 18: 52
            +3
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            "Yes, you are all drunks, but I am all of you for the fence ...:

            Hi! Didn't * mention the guests from the south *, like hiring? laughing
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 13 October 2020 18: 59
              +4
              Quote: Phil77
              * guests from the south * didn't mention, like, for hire?

              No, we never heard of them in the 90s ... And our salary was not bad, for a salary, plus a bonus, you could buy a seven in good condition.
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 13 October 2020 18: 45
          +3
          Constantine, my respect!
          The picture is, as always, on the level! laughing
          But you can't explain to the management why it would be in the midst of a working day * at a time when the whole country is in a single impulse, led by HIM, and so on, so on, so on ... *.
          Someone needs to create! wink
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 21: 19
            +1
            And, I remembered ... She had a black notebook, where she is our marakula sins. Here at the meeting, she shook her. The guys said: "Petrovna, throw out this notebook nafig!"
    3. vladcub
      vladcub 13 October 2020 18: 14
      +6
      Nikolay, I completely and completely agree with you: the site is getting more interesting, otherwise there was a period that I looked at the headlines, yawned and closed
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 15 October 2020 10: 20
        +2
        Nikolay, I completely and completely agree with you: the site is getting more interesting, otherwise there was a period that I looked at the headlines, yawned and closed

        You described my feelings, Svyatoslav! Exactly, exactly ... God grant that everything will return to normal .. drinks
  7. vladcub
    vladcub 13 October 2020 18: 09
    +5
    V. Oh, I am sincerely glad that today is not an empty day: there is something to read, talk and listen to knowledgeable people
    1. kalibr
      13 October 2020 18: 31
      +6
      Svyatoslav! I will tell you the secret of the golden key: in front of you are articles about Scottish broadswords with photographs from the Highlander Museum; material about the dating of marble products, this is for their forgery, the next material about the liberals, then about the liberal-Masons (ugh, ugh, be remembered at night ... very scary), and very unusual material about ... well , and you will see it yourself! That's it, everything for the good of people! The name of the entity is the readers of the VO website.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 13 October 2020 18: 54
        +5
        Hi, Vyacheslav! hi
        Ahead of us all are waiting for inflation, aggravation of the K-virus, another "zeroing" of everything and everyone and the rank of generalissimo, you know for whom. laughing
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 13 October 2020 19: 08
          +5
          Quote: Sea Cat
          generalissimo

          So after all, for this you need to successfully fight with someone? laughing
          Although from * these * you can expect anything.
          Lord! Here is a * patient * of the Russian people! * These * already simply do not know what to come up with such-such-tricky! wink
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 13 October 2020 19: 27
          +3
          Well, why did it come up? They will.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 13 October 2020 19: 30
            +3
            Well, why did it come up? They will.

            Assigns. laughing
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 13 October 2020 19: 34
              +5
              But people asked, didn't they? wink
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 13 October 2020 19: 49
                +5
                Seryog, well, fuck him, let's better talk about women.
                At least it's nice to look at them.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 13 October 2020 20: 04
                  +3
                  Please, Guillaume Signac.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 13 October 2020 20: 12
                    +3
                    Well, quite another matter! love
                    Come to the Source of Life. smile
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 13 October 2020 20: 17
                      +4
                      I fell down! wink And this is Emeriko Imre.
                  2. vladcub
                    vladcub 14 October 2020 17: 54
                    +3
                    Pretty girl
                    1. Phil77
                      Phil77 14 October 2020 18: 17
                      +3
                      Yes, and as an artist is very good! The basis for creativity is female beauty!

                      And then there was Paul, who was more of a master in landscapes.
                    2. Phil77
                      Phil77 14 October 2020 18: 19
                      +4
                      Or did you like Imre? wink
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 14 October 2020 19: 28
                        +4
                        "And the eye is black,
                        And the legs are different "(C) laughing
                        But, in principle, like any impressionism - it inspires me!
                      2. Phil77
                        Phil77 14 October 2020 19: 33
                        +5
                        Hello Anton! I can confidently say that the Hungarian's favorite color is red!
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 14 October 2020 19: 47
                        +4
                        Well, that's why he is Hungarian. Dilute red pepper with black pepper, add the rest to taste (meat, herbs, vegetables) - in any case, you get paprikash! laughing
                      4. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 14 October 2020 19: 51
                        +4
                        Gastronomic evaluation of portraits.
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 14 October 2020 20: 04
                        +4
                        And where are the portraits here?
                      6. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 14 October 2020 21: 26
                        +4
                        If not a still life, and not a landscape, then a portrait. So it is sung in a children's song. Tell me what is right - I will know.
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 14 October 2020 21: 45
                        +4
                        There is a good term: "plot". Maybe he? ....
                      8. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 14 October 2020 21: 54
                        +3
                        Somehow it doesn't convince.

                        The plot is a common property of even a picture, even a literary work.


                        “And with him the plot left the story,
                        And the lines twist at random, like a tradescantia ”(c).
                      9. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 14 October 2020 22: 06
                        +3
                        How else to call the captured moment, mood, emotion, situation ...?
                      10. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 14 October 2020 23: 04
                        +3
                        "Winged words sound
                        Grabbing on the fly and suddenly fastens
                        And the dark delirium of the soul and herbs, an obscure smell ”(c).
  • Phil77
    Phil77 13 October 2020 20: 09
    +4
    To yesterday's question about leather jackets.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 13 October 2020 20: 25
      +4
      But we don’t need this, bad memory about them after the Civil War, this is not the mythical Anka the machine gunner.
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 13 October 2020 20: 32
        +5
        What is Anka?!?!
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 14 October 2020 18: 27
          +2
          Sergei, your girl has RPD
        3. Phil77
          Phil77 14 October 2020 18: 32
          +5
          In deficit. * Maxims * -that, for today! wink
        4. vladcub
          vladcub 14 October 2020 21: 15
          +3
          Maxim has done a lot of "rustle" during his "career"
      2. Icelord
        Icelord 14 October 2020 19: 18
        +6
        No it's a paired Lewis
      3. Catfish
        Catfish 15 October 2020 02: 18
        +4
        This is not for Seryogina's girl, but for my grandmother. And this is RP-46, also Degtyareva.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 14 October 2020 18: 17
    +3
    Kostya, you are an advanced weapon, what kind of "beast" does Granny have? Something he looks like MG, but the angle is not good to find out
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 14 October 2020 23: 38
      +2
      What are you, this is MAG
    2. Icelord
      Icelord 15 October 2020 00: 35
      +2
      Actually, I was wrong, not MAG, but not MG either. You can't fix the bipod on the MG like that, and there is no muzzle. More on the RPD similar to which the tape was added
    3. Icelord
      Icelord 15 October 2020 00: 54
      +2
      Opensource projects, I was puzzled, it looks like DP with an attached ribbon. But it is not exactly repeat ... If anyone clarifies, I will be extremely grateful
    4. Catfish
      Catfish 15 October 2020 02: 22
      +4
      Igor, hello! hi This is RP-46 of the same Degtyarev, i.e. modernized for tape feed and with a weighted barrel DP mod. 27 years old.
    5. Icelord
      Icelord 15 October 2020 07: 19
      +2
      Many thanks! Exactly, a company machine gun!
    6. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 15 October 2020 10: 39
      +3
      This is RP-46 of the same Degtyarev, i.e. modernized for tape feed and with a weighted barrel DP mod. 27 years old.

      "Talents need help, mediocrity will break through themselves", - reasoned the head of the rifle range of the Officer Rifle School, Nikolai Filatov, and sent the talented master Degtyarev to help the gunsmith Fedorov ... Their creatively handy tandem began from there, which benefited both. Fedorov - as a pioneer, Degtyarev - as a subsequent genius.
      But do not forget that this was originally the decision of the wise Filatov! soldier In this pre-revolutionary photo, Nikolai Mikhailovich sits third from the left.
    7. vladcub
      vladcub 15 October 2020 20: 17
      +1
      Intelligently decided
    8. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 16 October 2020 09: 38
      +1
      Intelligently decided

      he was generally a literate man. He himself provided all possible assistance to Fedorov, Degtyarev, Tokarev in their research. Under Tsar Filatov became the last head of the Officer Shooting School, and under the Soviets - the first head of the Shot courses; in principle, the same thing, only under a different flag. He died in the USSR in honor and respect. The general beard left a good legacy to the country (by the way, his son also became a prominent Soviet scientist). In Oranienbaum, memorial plaques were installed on the house where they lived with him and his son. soldier
  • vladcub
    vladcub 15 October 2020 20: 37
    0
    Igor, that cheat very much confused me. RPD is recognizable: 'it often appears in films, in museums, and RP-46 is not often seen.
    In childhood, I found: a distorted barrel with a bipod and a fragment of a disc, probably a direct hit.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 14 October 2020 18: 10
    +4
    Sergei "fil" - is it not Murka in a leather jacket and a Nagant?
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 14 October 2020 18: 24
      +4
      I don’t know, maybe she. Or maybe this one? laughing
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 14 October 2020 18: 46
        +3
        Sergey, why does she need so many weapons? I'm definitely not drawn to her.
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 14 October 2020 18: 49
        +4
        Quote: vladcub
        Why does she need so many weapons?

        Well, pistols for balance. And a dagger? And let's do it! She liked it, well, she put it on, for force, the KGB. laughing
      3. Icelord
        Icelord 14 October 2020 19: 16
        +3
        The lady has no pistol in her right hand, I don't even know what it is, but I wouldn't shoot from such a monster, it's a pity for my wrist
      4. Catfish
        Catfish 15 October 2020 03: 25
        +4
        No matter how I tried to figure it out, I did not understand. Reminds of some kind of monster of the beginning of the century, like Gabbet-Fairfax Mars, but too lazy to climb looking.

        Yes, and in her left hand, do not really understand what. request
      5. vladcub
        vladcub 15 October 2020 20: 13
        0
        I doubt she was shooting at a target with such a monster. Probably for ports. If I were in her place, I would have taken something easier. For example: Nagant sample 1910, Browning, aka Colt M1911 ,.
        Kostya, what system do you prefer?
      6. Catfish
        Catfish 15 October 2020 20: 35
        +2
        Since childhood, I have been in love with Walther P.38, there was only one inconvenience - the high spoke of the trigger, in order to cock with the firing hand, I had to unfold the pistol in my palm, and so, apart from kind words, there is nothing more to say. I also like 1911 for its convenience and accuracy, but somehow I don't really like the absence of self-cocking.
        Of ours - certainly APS, Igor Yakovlevich is the most talented person. None of our modern ones even held in their hands, and there is no great desire for this. Here, in a nutshell, something like this.
      7. Icelord
        Icelord 15 October 2020 20: 52
        +1
        PPK without a doubt, but for a serious matter m4, and everyone's favorite Makar is the same topic
      8. Catfish
        Catfish 15 October 2020 21: 00
        +2
        Regarding the RR and RRK, I completely agree, the cars are good, RRK did not try, but shot from the RR. Makar, of course, is crooked in the sense of ergonomics, but for self-defense at home, it is quite suitable.
        What kind of "m4" do you mean?
      9. Icelord
        Icelord 15 October 2020 21: 00
        +1
        Duc Carbine 5,56
      10. Catfish
        Catfish 15 October 2020 21: 09
        +2
        But this is no longer a short barrel, so I was surprised. No, but I like M2, I tried it and fell in love the first time.
      11. Icelord
        Icelord 15 October 2020 21: 13
        +1
        Yeah, light as air, but they say in the frost in bursts until it warms up, does not shoot
      12. Catfish
        Catfish 15 October 2020 21: 30
        +1
        I haven't tried it in the cold, I can't say anything. request
  • vladcub
    vladcub 17 October 2020 17: 19
    +1
    Actually waltherP38 cannot be attributed to the period of the civil war
  • Catfish
    Catfish 17 October 2020 20: 11
    +2
    And what has to do with the civil war, we are generally talking about weapons. And during the civil war, I would prefer ... to live in Hawaii.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 October 2020 19: 34
    +6
    "Lara Croft - the plunderer of Kolchak's gold"
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 19: 45
    +4
    Yeah, exactly, then everything is fine)))
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 October 2020 19: 49
    +5
    Igor! hi
    Played or watched?
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 19: 50
    +5
    Anton, my compliments. Watched, sinful, like Angelina
  • Phil77
    Phil77 14 October 2020 20: 01
    +5
    Quote: Icelord
    like Angelina

    Jolie and ..... * two barrels *. wink
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 20: 06
    +4
    Personally, I like nickel-plated, sports heckler koch with a compensator, well, Jolie herself, of course)))
  • vladcub
    vladcub 14 October 2020 21: 11
    +2
    I like her too. Yes, and I would gladly take one of her barrels
  • Catfish
    Catfish 15 October 2020 20: 44
    +3
    "And you can do without bread" (c) laughing
  • vladcub
    vladcub 15 October 2020 20: 55
    +1
    Yh.Only to swallow saliva, and I would like to "make a sound" and see what she is hiding?
  • Catfish
    Catfish 15 October 2020 21: 05
    +3
    I risk earning a "banana", but what can't you do for a friend.

  • vladcub
    vladcub 17 October 2020 17: 13
    +1
    Kostya, you are a sadist: again to choke with saliva
  • Catfish
    Catfish 17 October 2020 20: 15
    +3
    Not worth it, in our country there are much more beautiful and charming women than in their "decaying" west.
    "Seek and you will find"! Good luck in the free hunt, Slava! wink
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 October 2020 20: 01
    +4
    I liked it too, until a certain point, until I had a mammoectomy.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 20: 09
    +4
    Yes, I, too, have become a little dull, but can we be healthy?
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 October 2020 20: 43
    +5
    No, just a panic fear of oncology (her mother died of breast cancer), multiplied by her own fantasies. I, at the age of a little over forty, realized that all my relatives, in the male line, are dying of cancer ... Now, preventively, I will "kill the wall"?
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 20: 47
    +3
    I personally would regret it))). But seriously, this is certainly not normal, because in the states the diagnosis of breast cancer has been worked out by "five". Psychosis apparently
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 October 2020 21: 04
    +4
    Indeed, in the states, the diagnosis of breast cancer has been worked out by "five"
    I will argue with that. The best diagnostics in Israel and Germany.
    However, if you are interested, you can contact my friend "Krasnodar", he is an expert in this matter.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 21: 06
    +3
    Well, I did not say that the best, but reliable, that is, psychosis as it is. Sincerely, Igor
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 October 2020 21: 13
    +4
    Brad Pitt realized that psychosis has a tendency to develop, and considered it a blessing to get a divorce ...
  • Liam
    Liam 14 October 2020 21: 31
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Brad Pitt got it

    Pitt just got drunk in recent years, and life with an alcoholic is not sugar for anyone, including the stars
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 October 2020 21: 49
    +4
    That is, Pitt drank himself to death, and Jolie's psyche is "ok"!
  • Liam
    Liam 14 October 2020 21: 51
    +1
    Pitt is an alcoholic since adolescence and Jolie is a normal mother

    Brad Pitt first spoke about his divorce from Angelina Jolie: in an interview with GQ, the actor admitted that only he and his problems with alcohol were to blame for their separation.

    “I was a professional drinker. Truth be told, since I graduated from college, I don't remember a single day without drinking or smoking a joint or anything like that. They helped me numb my feelings. When I got a family, I gave up everything except booze. But in the last year of my married life, things got out of hand, ”said Pitt.

    The culmination was an incident on a private jet during the flight of the actor and his family to Los Angeles. Anonymous sources told the FBI that during an altercation, Pitt hit 15-year-old son Maddox. The FBI found no evidence of the actor's abuse of his son, but Jolie filed for divorce five days later
    .
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 October 2020 22: 02
    +6
    Ok, colleague! I will not argue: Jolie is an excellent mother and wife, and Pitt is an aging bon vivant, alcoholic and drug addict ... But as an actor ... He is "three blocks" ahead of her!
  • Liam
    Liam 14 October 2020 22: 06
    +2
    As an actor, he is cooler, although he does not reach the level of superstars like Hanks, Hopkins, Connery.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 October 2020 22: 22
    +3
    Damn, you still remember the English!
  • Liam
    Liam 14 October 2020 22: 45
    +1
    The last 20 years after Spy Game and Joe Black, there is little to remember his outstanding
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 22: 29
    +3
    And here, as anyone, my favorite film Troy, and precisely because of Achilles. But I remember Hanks' surname. Where was filmed?
  • vladcub
    vladcub 15 October 2020 19: 59
    0
    Hanks and Sean Connery are MASTERS.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 21: 09
    +3
    And by the way, it's a pity, I have come across such ladies more than once, like brains and appearance, but hysterics. Sadness
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 October 2020 21: 27
    +3
    Trust my experience, it is better to love a hysterical woman than a woman with a rational mindset.
  • Liam
    Liam 14 October 2020 21: 20
    +1
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    her mother died of breast cancer)

    At the age of 50. Of whom the last 10 fought with cancer. Grandmother died at 40, too, from this type of cancer. Aunt, too.
    She did gene tests and found that she had a mutation in the BRCA1 gene that provokes breast cancer.
    Do you think she had to sit and wait until she got sick?
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 21: 47
    +3
    Perhaps you are right, but personally, before I cut something, at least I waited for the first symptoms request
  • Liam
    Liam 14 October 2020 21: 48
    0
    Quote: Icelord
    first symptoms

    These symptoms may well be in the form of metastases.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 21: 51
    +3
    I don't think, in any case, I was convinced that the diagnosis of breast cancer is very advanced, and is detected at a very early stage. However, I will not argue, I am not a doctor, but personally I feel sorry for Angelina's chest
  • Liam
    Liam 14 October 2020 21: 55
    0
    It is better not to play roulette with cancer. But I would still have to cut it. But in a "package" with chemotherapy and the risk of metastases.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 October 2020 21: 52
    +4
    Excuse me, colleague, I wrote above about my heredity.
  • Liam
    Liam 14 October 2020 21: 56
    +1
    I read it. The more you can understand it. If there is an opportunity to avoid, well done. My opinion
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 October 2020 22: 18
    +4
    And the guillotine is a good remedy for dandruff.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 21: 24
    +2
    Quote: Icelord
    Watched, sinful, like Angelina

    And in what part?
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 21: 40
    +2
    Angelina in everyone, and the film is honestly so-so, so I hardly distinguish the parts, alas
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 21: 47
    +2
    Quote: Icelord
    Angelina in everyone

    Duc, there in my opinion, different women ... recourse
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 21: 48
    +2
    Well, maybe I didn't watch everything
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 21: 51
    +2
    Quote: Icelord
    Well, maybe I didn't watch everything

    Right now I looked. Videotape, Angelica number five. To include reluctance, well, her ...
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 21: 54
    +2
    No, you confused))) not Angelica, this is finally ... there are simply no words. Lara Croft. And actress Angelina Jolie)))
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 22: 03
    +1
    Quote: Icelord
    And actress Angelina Jolie)))

    No, you got it wrong. In, I remembered! Chicollina!
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 22: 05
    +1
    Well, this is also a star in its own way))) but has nothing to do with Angelina Jolie
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 23: 05
    +1
    Quote: Icelord
    but has nothing to do with Angelina Jolie

    How does it not have? Chichalina is better! She slipped into parliament too. What about Jolie? So, spit and grind.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 14 October 2020 23: 11
    +1
    Hot women are loved in Italy. So she slipped into parliament. Do you remember the name of her party? Party of love is not a joke laughing
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 14 October 2020 23: 13
    +1
    Quote: Icelord
    Do you remember the name of her party?

    No, I was not interested in something ... crying
  • vladcub
    vladcub 15 October 2020 19: 51
    0
    I read somewhere that Chichalina is a relative of Musoli
  • Icelord
    Icelord 16 October 2020 12: 08
    0
    No, she is from Hungary, Ilona Staller is her name
  • vladcub
    vladcub 14 October 2020 17: 51
    +3
    The white tunic does not suit him: not a face
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 14 October 2020 18: 27
      +4
      What suits him at all? Gray personality. winked winked
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 14 October 2020 18: 42
        +2
        First, he has a different opinion on this matter. Hee, hee
        Secondly, until an ADEQUATE OPPOSITION LEADER appears, he is magnified.
        As the people say: "the young man is against the sheep, but the sheep himself is against the young man"
        PS, and his suit is more suitable than a white jacket. This is confirmed by mine, she used to be (100 years ago) a graphic designer.
        1. kalibr
          14 October 2020 18: 52
          +2
          Quote: vladcub
          a suit suits him more than a white jacket.

          My graduate student had the topic "New ceremonial uniform for the Russian army" (somewhere in the late 90s), the survey was conducted in Moscow and Penza. There were very interesting ideas. We need to find it and write what it is to whom and how, and why ... Tell at the same time about Gorelik's project, which was never implemented ...
          1. Icelord
            Icelord 14 October 2020 22: 51
            +1
            Vyacheslav Olegovich, what about Gorelik? I respect him very much, but he seems to have written more about other times and countries
        2. Phil77
          Phil77 14 October 2020 18: 56
          +5
          Quote: vladcub
          he has a different opinion on this matter. Hee, hee

          Oh, well, it is in fig! That's right, yesterday Konstantin noticed, it's better about the beautiful.
          It can be seen on me the compulsion to wear masks is so effective! wink
          Became a creepy oppy! lol Pressure, you know, on the person. Alas for me.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 14 October 2020 19: 41
            +4
            "- Hi where are you?
            - I'm at the checkout ...
            - Are you wearing a mask?
            - Yes.
            - I drove up, "take the cash", and dump! Go! I'm going !!! "
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 14 October 2020 19: 49
              +4
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              "take the cash",

              No, everything is simpler. I don’t like when people like Sobyanin, Cancer and Popova decide for me. Well, and others like them. The whole question is in their competence.
              By the way, it was not enough for us to divide into * reds * and * whites *, * liberal democrats * and * commies *. Bah-bang !!!
              Only now! There are co-believers and virus-deniers in the arena! Hurry to see! laughing
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 14 October 2020 19: 56
                +3
                Sergei! Again...
                "If it is born in the empire,
                Better to live in a remote province, by the sea "(C)
              2. vladcub
                vladcub 14 October 2020 21: 06
                +1
                Sergei, during the quarantine, I immediately went crazy: sleep as long as you want, and then I got tired and urinated with boiling water.
                When the numbers began to grow in the fall, I didn’t wear a mask out of principle: we don’t have this infection, it’s in Moscow, but it’s not on the periphery. And on October 3, a man from our street died, and the bull was still the same, he could talk 0,5 "white" himself and not in one eye. Probably never sneezed. Now we all have masks, and I also drip Gripferon into my nose.
                Even though it is a "cheerful" life, I don’t want something to the next world.
                As in the song of "front-line driver" Peter: "it's too early for us to die." It seems so?
            2. Korsar4
              Korsar4 14 October 2020 19: 55
              +4
              "Hooks of noses, and grin from ear to ear -
              Like at the Venice Carnival. "

              By the way, the mask of the maple leaf fascinated me. I tried on one of the daughters.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 14 October 2020 20: 04
                +4
                Quote: Korsar4
                Mask

                A mask for all times and occasions!
                Rospotrebnadzor-kysh !!!!
              2. vladcub
                vladcub 14 October 2020 20: 46
                +2
                Fantomas. Can't you forget him
              3. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 14 October 2020 20: 51
                +4
                Muskan all occasions, this is "arafatka".
              4. Korsar4
                Korsar4 14 October 2020 21: 23
                +3
                Like a stupid tourist I bought "Arafatka" on the ruins of Palmyra. But there was a local with me. He bargained.
              5. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 14 October 2020 21: 40
                +3
                Oh yeah! "Trade" east of Athens is everything !!!!
              6. Korsar4
                Korsar4 14 October 2020 21: 55
                +3
                Yes. I was told that they would even be upset if there was no trade.
              7. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 14 October 2020 22: 16
                +3
                And there is. To the east of Athens, to Honollulu, "trading" is an art, it is not a matter of the master, but the beauty of the game.
              8. Korsar4
                Korsar4 14 October 2020 22: 59
                +3
                "You will appreciate the beauty of the game" (c).
    2. Icelord
      Icelord 14 October 2020 23: 48
      +3
      I wonder why Fantômas stuck on the barrels of his pistols?
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 October 2020 20: 10
    +4
    By the way, the mask of the maple leaf fascinated me. I tried on one of the daughters
    "The yellow autumn leaf is circling on the water,
    Why is my voice, my voice trembling so? "(C)
  • vladcub
    vladcub 14 October 2020 20: 45
    +3
    Good evening. I know a few in a different edition
    - Honey, what else should I take.? Now near the checkout.
    -Are you wearing a mask?
    -Yes.
    -Then take the cashier
  • kalibr
    13 October 2020 20: 04
    +4
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Ahead of us all are waiting for inflation, aggravation of the K-virus, another "zeroing" of everything and everyone and the rank of generalissimo, you know for whom.

    Greetings to you, Konstantin! But ... I don't know any of this. You know ... now I am comfortable sitting in the funds of the Tokyo National Museum and admiring their armor. Before that, I was virtually in Italy, found a couple of very interesting museums there. In a word, around me the sheer beauty and abominations of our real life, I simply do not notice. For me, this is MAYA - "the ghostly world."
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 13 October 2020 20: 07
      +4
      I'm glad for you, no, it's really good when everything is fine. I sincerely wish you good luck and new good articles. Although this is a rather mercantile wish on my part. smile drinks
      1. kalibr
        13 October 2020 20: 56
        +4
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Although this is a rather mercantile wish on my part.

        Personally, I don't mind at all!
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 13 October 2020 20: 21
      +3
      Greetings, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
      1. kalibr
        13 October 2020 20: 57
        +4
        It is this place, but it is much more interesting inside than outside.
    3. ee2100
      ee2100 13 October 2020 20: 32
      +2
      Well, do you drink non-alcoholic beer?
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 13 October 2020 20: 57
        +5
        In this case, it is better to drink plain water. laughing drinks
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 14 October 2020 20: 34
          +3
          More delicious and healthier. I once tried a non-alcoholic one: "Zhadetsky". Feeling like urine in your mouth
          1. kalibr
            15 October 2020 12: 45
            +1
            Quote: vladcub
            I once tried a non-alcoholic one: "Zhadetskiy". Feeling like urine in your mouth

            +++++++++++++++++
      2. kalibr
        13 October 2020 21: 01
        +6
        Beer, both alcoholic and non-alcoholic, is equally harmful. But our Russian, both in taste and in harmfulness, is much worse than others. As on the comb stands "46", but it says "Czech goose", which means it did not stand next to the "goose". Very tasty beer in Poland, Germany, Czech Republic, but I liked the beer in Croatia on the island of Krk better. Therefore, I drink it either only there, or when it is from there.
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 13 October 2020 21: 22
          +2
          Got it, the joke did not go away!
          1. kalibr
            13 October 2020 22: 32
            +2
            I wrote to you, Alexander, that I am not very good with the perception of humor.
        2. Operator
          Operator 13 October 2020 23: 29
          0
          Beer is only one brand - Guinness, everything else is ale laughing
        3. Icelord
          Icelord 14 October 2020 22: 07
          +2
          But I love beer. I love it very much. Eh ...
          1. kalibr
            15 October 2020 12: 44
            0
            Why not love good beer ...
    4. Phil77
      Phil77 14 October 2020 18: 35
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      You know ... now I am comfortable sitting in the funds of the Tokyo National Museum and admiring their armor.

      Me too! Virtually!

      Good evening, dear Vyacheslav Olegovich!
      1. kalibr
        14 October 2020 18: 46
        +1
        And good evening to you. You go to their E-page ...
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 14 October 2020 18: 58
          +3
          Quote: kalibr
          E-page ...

          I'm going to try now. hi
  • vladcub
    vladcub 14 October 2020 18: 19
    +2
    Quote: Phil77
    Yes, and as an artist is very good! The basis for creativity is female beauty!

    And then there was Paul, who was more of a master in landscapes.

    Paul Gauguin?
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 14 October 2020 18: 38
      +2
      Quote: vladcub
      Paul Gauguin?

      No, what are you, Signac Paul Signac.
      My fault is not specified. bully
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 14 October 2020 18: 40
        +3
        This is how he saw Venice, for example.
        1. kalibr
          14 October 2020 18: 45
          +2
          Pointillism technique, very effective! Although applying all these dots will get rid of!
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 14 October 2020 19: 01
            +2
            Quote: kalibr
            Although putting all these points you will get away!

          2. Phil77
            Phil77 14 October 2020 19: 03
            +3
            Here's another example.
            Henri Edmond Cross, but Venice again! * City of lovers *! wink
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 14 October 2020 19: 06
              +3
              He and Madame have a portrait of his wife.
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 14 October 2020 20: 21
                +2
                Actually, you will go crazy while you draw
          3. Icelord
            Icelord 14 October 2020 20: 29
            +3
            That is why, I, you have here and like where I would read about pointillism or lovely Ladies. We have all the disputes over the years of adoption, the color of the edge of the shoulder strap, etc. It is interesting, of course, but it is a little tiring, there is no outlet for the living
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 14 October 2020 20: 18
          +2
          Looks good. True, I gravitate more towards the classical school: Rubens, Benoit, Levitan, Shishkin, Savrasov
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 14 October 2020 20: 13
        +2
        Alas, I am not familiar with him. Perhaps he ran past, but to "sit" to get acquainted. Did not happen
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 14 October 2020 20: 23
          +3
          It's a pity of course, but ... It won't work anymore.
          Died in 1935. request
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 14 October 2020 20: 30
            +2
            I suspect that you didn’t drink tea with him either