Military Review

Disappointing data on the configuration of the S-400 air defense system ammunition supplied by the Turkish Air Force. Own goal or a long-range contract?

228

In our several early reviews, published in the first half of 2019, and highlighting a number of consequences of the implementation of the contract for the supply of the Turkish side with promising long-range anti-aircraft missile systems S-400 "Triumph", we fully and completely focused the attention of the technically savvy audience of Military Review on the threat of the possible transfer of critical technologies of the element base of the illumination and guidance radars 92Н6Е (including the features of the frequency modes of operation of the modernized microwave klystrons and "emitting" arrays of receiving and transmitting modules, as well as the level of noise immunity of the receiving paths of the radar) to the specialists of the US Defense Department and the headquarters of the leading American military-industrial corporation "Raytheon".


Undoubtedly, the severity of this problem continues to maintain an unshakable position to this day, because, having detailed data on the principles of forming directional patterns, as well as hardware and software methods for suppressing active noise (frequency sighting) interference in the receiving paths of 92H6E illumination radars, specialists from " Raytheon ", in close cooperation with experts from the Research Laboratories of the Air Force and the US Navy, are quite capable of developing, in a fairly short time, for promising container complexes of electronic warfare AN / ALQ-249 (V) 1 NGJ-LB Increment 2 adaptive software algorithms for jamming with such power , spectral, frequency and spatial parameters of "jamming" beams, which will allow much more effective suppression of the receiving paths of the RPN 92N6E than those used in the more outdated AN / ALQ-99 suspended radio countermeasures systems installed on the EA-18G "Growler" electronic warfare aircraft. It should be noted that the "software templates" with the above adaptive algorithms for jamming the radars of the 30Н6Е / 92Н6Е family can be loaded not only into the on-board computers of the latest electronic warfare / ALQ-249 NGJ-LB Inc 2 stations, but also into the computerized electronic warfare subsystems of stealth fighters 5 -th generation of the F-35A / B / C line and deeply modernized carrier-based multifunctional fighters F / A-18E / F Block III "Advanced Super Hornet".

As you know, these fighters are equipped with advanced on-board AFAR-radars AN / APG-79 and AN / APG-81, the electronic architecture of which has specialized radio frequency tunable filters RFTF (Radio Frequency Tunable Filters), powering certain arrays of transmitting and receiving modules and ensuring the operation of data Radar station in electronic countermeasures mode.

The unique potential of the 9M96E2 ultra-long-range missiles at the disposal of the Turkish side


Meanwhile, a detail much more significant for expert analysis was recorded in the Turkish media space two days earlier, at the time of the redeployment of one of the four S-400 Triumph anti-aircraft missile divisions of the Turkish Armed Forces to the city of Sinop, located on the Black Sea coast, in preparation for the upcoming military exercises of the air defense units of the Turkish Armed Forces. In particular, having familiarized himself with the photograph of the combat crew of one of the four S-400 air defense missile launchers of the Turkish Armed Forces, which was published on the notorious Turkish news and the military-analytical "Twitter" page @UretimYerli with a link to the competent resource in the Turkish defense department, we finally come to the conclusion that the optional "package" of the contract concluded between Rosoboronexport and the Turkish Ministry of Defense for the supply of military air defense systems to combat units of Turkey The S-400 nevertheless provided for hardware and software integration into the weapons control systems of the latest 9M96E2 super-maneuverable long-range anti-aircraft missiles, which gained operational readiness at the beginning of 2019, as part of the ammunition of the promising S-350 Vityaz air defense systems and, apparently, only recently have they begun to replenish the arsenals of regimental kits S-400 of the anti-aircraft missile forces of the Russian Aerospace Forces.

Indeed, on the one hand, the desire of Rosoboronexport as a whole and the Almaz-Antey concern in particular to equip the two regimental sets of "four hundred" supplied to the Turkish side with unique 9M96E2 missiles has a number of compelling reasons, one of which is the desire to achieve superiority in the competitive a clash with the American military-industrial corporation Raytheon, which is promoting the Patriot PAC-3MSE anti-missile system on the world arms market.

On the other hand, at the disposal of the Turkish units of the military air defense-missile defense are super-maneuverable missiles equipped with "gas-dynamic belts" of transverse control engines and active radar seeker of the "Slate" type, which ensure, firstly, the interception of highly maneuverable means of aerospace attack (carrying out anti-aircraft maneuvers with overloads from 50 to 65 units) by the method of kinetic destruction "hit-to-kill" (including the 9M723-1 Iskander-M OTBR, which are in service with the Rocket Forces and artillery of Armenia), secondly, the defeat of low-altitude reconnaissance UAVs, hiding behind the hills and ridges of Artsakh. In case of comprehensive involvement of Ankara in the Karabakh conflict, the above-mentioned feature of the S-400 air defense system will allow the Armed Forces of Azerbaijan and Turkey to partially neutralize the retaliatory strikes of Armenian missile units seeking to establish parity in this treacherous dive.
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  1. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 8 October 2020 05: 49
    17
    Goal in their own goal
    And what is there to guess! Turkey to NATO !!!
    1. Far B
      Far B 8 October 2020 06: 06
      89
      Nothing personal, just business. As with all "partners" - they sanction us, we give them titanium alloys and an expression of concern. They give us sanctions, we give them rocket engines and expressions of concern. They give us sanctions again, we give them oil and gas and an expression of concern. Loot wins evil not, along the way, it even wins common sense.
      1. mark1
        mark1 8 October 2020 06: 21
        22
        Quote: Dalny V
        Nothing personal, just business.

        Yes, if it were just a business, it is still difficult, but it is possible to understand, but in this case the decision is political and I, at least, cannot understand it.
        1. Stas157
          Stas157 8 October 2020 06: 35
          73
          Why is the sale of military technical secrets privately called treason Homeland, and the same sale, but already at the state level is considered victory? At least that's how this deal (with the S-400) was presented.
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 8 October 2020 08: 14
            23
            Quote: Stas157
            Why is the sale of military-technical secrets privately called treason, and the same sale, but at the state level, is considered a victory?

            Because you cannot compete with the state. And our state is "ON"
            1. kava61
              kava61 8 October 2020 23: 49
              -5
              The finished product is sold there, not the production technology. They sell us Coca Cola, but this does not mean that they will tell you how it is produced and to this day no one knows its recipe, and much more.
              1. Per se.
                Per se. 9 October 2020 06: 46
                16
                Quote: kava61
                They sell us Coca Cola, but this does not mean that they will tell you how it is produced and to this day no one knows its recipe,
                It's like "elusive Joe", why elusive, but who needs him ...
                Water is one liter. Lemon and lime - bit by bit. Two oranges. Sparkling water. Sugar - 300 grams. Natural coffee - two tablespoons. But you can not add. Nutmeg - XNUMX/XNUMX teaspoon Cinnamon - three sticks. Or a teaspoon of ground. Coriander beans - a teaspoon. Or two teaspoons of ground. Vanilla essence - half a teaspoon.
                With modern technologies, you can make "beef" from fish, copy everything and everyone, the problem is not in the secret of Cola, but in the copyright for the brand.

                Now, in general, about the crafty excuse from buy and sell (about the secrecy of production), that not only the Motherland, but also the mother will be sold for the loot. It would have been so clear if the fallen Saber would not have been exported from Korea at one time, but an American air-to-air missile with a thermal guidance head would have been removed from Vietnam. Here, no trophies, they sell everything themselves. They are in a hurry, until the Soviet groundwork is outdated, as long as there is demand, until they are raised on the pitchfork, they sell the country, before fleeing to their billions over the hill.
              2. vadivm59
                vadivm59 9 October 2020 16: 19
                +2
                Back in the 60s, Markus Wolf, the head of intelligence of the GDR (there was such a country) gave the task to his agents abroad, to get a recipe for making these drinks, which was brilliantly done. So there is no need for LA-LA.
              3. Dzungar
                Dzungar 12 October 2020 11: 29
                -2
                You see how they minus you for putting these alarmists in their place ...
              4. pereselenec
                pereselenec 12 October 2020 14: 34
                0
                Quote: kava61
                They sell Coca Cola to us, but this does not mean that they will tell you how it is made and to this day no one knows its recipe


                Does anyone else believe in such bikes in 2020?
          2. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 8 October 2020 09: 21
            -6
            Quote: Stas157
            and the same sale, but at the state level, is considered a victory?


            Therefore, shta, this is not a regular Russian S-400, but its commercial version, which has differences both in hardware and even more so in software. Patamu headquarters of the 9M96 missiles were developed - it was a case together with the South Koreans and had long been entered into service with them.
            1. Captain Pushkin
              Captain Pushkin 8 October 2020 17: 49
              +2
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              9M96 missiles were developed - it was a case in conjunction with the South Koreans and had long since entered service with them.

              We made the complex for the Koreans, with the exception of the missiles - the Koreans made the missiles themselves.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 8 October 2020 17: 53
                +2
                Is it? I read that the complex was completely sculpted ... I will not argue - but where can you read the details?
                1. Captain Pushkin
                  Captain Pushkin 8 October 2020 19: 20
                  0
                  Quote: Cyril G ...
                  Is it? I read that the complex was completely sculpted ... I will not argue - but where can you read the details?

                  Cheolmae-2, also known as KM-SAM. The development of this complex began in 2001, it was jointly led by the Russian concern VKO Almaz-Antey and the engineering design bureau Fakel in cooperation with the South Korean companies Samsung Techwin, LIG ​​Nex1 and Doosan DST.
                  SAM Cheolmae-2 was created on the basis of SAM 9M96 developed by MKB "Fakel". The Korean-made missile defense system is equipped with a combined guidance system: command-inertial guidance in the initial and middle sections of the flight path and active radar guidance in the final one. A rocket with a length of 4,61 m, a diameter of 0,275 m and a mass of 400 kg can perform maneuvers with an overload of up to 50g. The range is up to 40 km, the height is up to 20 km. It is reported that the Cheolmae-2 air defense system has anti-missile capabilities. But it is absolutely obvious that the effectiveness of a complex with a relatively short firing range when used against ballistic missiles will be much inferior to longer-range systems.
                  1. Cyril G ...
                    Cyril G ... 8 October 2020 19: 23
                    +3
                    Thanks for the clarification. Still, the loin comes out on the basis of the package of technical documentation provided by the Torch ...
                    1. Captain Pushkin
                      Captain Pushkin 8 October 2020 20: 10
                      +2
                      Quote: Cyril G ...
                      Still, the loin comes out on the basis of the package of technical documentation provided by the Torch ...

                      The missile guidance system is Korean, at the final stage, an active radar, i.e. homing. The complex turns out to be multi-channel, "fire and forget".
                      This is something that many of our complexes are sorely lacking.
                      1. Cyril G ...
                        Cyril G ... 8 October 2020 20: 41
                        -2
                        Here I can specifically add. It was necessary to make the Korean GOS on the basis of something. This is either ARGSN from 9M96, fortunately, we bought technical documentation, or ARGSN AiM-120, which, if sclerosis does not let me down, is screwed onto SM-6. Then I shot and forgot it will not work. Dzahvata ARGSN according to which Harpoon-like is unlikely to exceed - 10 km. More on the Fighter. In reality, everything is apparently worse. See the sad experience of fine-tuning the Redoubt air defense system. on project 20380 ...
                        As a result, the next missile defense system comes out, it is necessary to hold out on radio correction almost close to the target, figuratively speaking, poke it with your nose.
                        As a result, the number of targets fired is essentially equal to the number of radio correction channels ...
                      2. kava61
                        kava61 8 October 2020 23: 52
                        -3
                        This is nonsense, homing is disarmed by electronic warfare and very easy, but from our missile electronic warfare will not help, because the operator does not lose you.
            2. Dzungar
              Dzungar 12 October 2020 11: 32
              -1
              As there are strongly minus those who tell the truth ..... They have lost, and you say NO. And that's all. crowd piled up and minus minus minus. This is garbage, of course, but an indicator. Their rate
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 12 October 2020 11: 35
                -2
                Alas. Features of the local mess. I don't understand these games.
                1. Dzungar
                  Dzungar 12 October 2020 11: 37
                  -2
                  This is their job, most likely .....
          3. tolmachiev51
            tolmachiev51 9 October 2020 05: 33
            +2
            because. that, the country is "ruled" by the organized criminal group !!!
        2. Far B
          Far B 8 October 2020 06: 55
          +1
          to understand him, at least it is not possible for me
          I dare to suggest that in your case, the loot has not yet won over common sense. But when you get to the top step of the "podium" of our politician - then we will see laughing
          1. Civil
            Civil 8 October 2020 07: 32
            -10 qualifying.
            The country needs currency, that's all. Where did they start and sailed.
            1. Far B
              Far B 8 October 2020 07: 39
              15
              The country needs currency
              If the word "country" is understood as a bunch of individuals, then yes, currency is needed. And more, more !!!
              PySy. Is there not enough currency in the stash of the Motherland?
              1. swzero
                swzero 8 October 2020 09: 06
                -15 qualifying.
                and from what it will be enough? Our population is accustomed to resting in Turkey and Egypt, driving foreign cars and buying other imported goods. If you can still understand the situation with imported goods - there are often no people of our own (phones, computers, etc.), then foreign tourism is a scourge of the economy. In 2019, there were 48kk trips abroad. Let the average budget of $ 500-600 be $ 25-30kk. A huge amount - the cost of several aircraft carriers. And the personalities there are not a separate bunch but just a crowd.
                1. Name Surname
                  Name Surname 8 October 2020 09: 45
                  +8
                  Do you offer to ride and keep the money cubanoydpm? Who, according to their own words, are the descendants of the great Cossack women and they just fell for the peasants to serve
                  1. swzero
                    swzero 8 October 2020 13: 34
                    -11 qualifying.
                    It's just that interesting people want to eat the candy and not sit on the bolt. Here either trips abroad and imported clothes or a normal army / defense industry / science / education / medicine, etc. Like to ride / consume? There is no need to whine then. I want an army / defense industry / science / education / medicine, etc. - there is nothing to travel / consume.
                    1. syndicalist
                      syndicalist 8 October 2020 18: 52
                      +6
                      All over the world, it is consumption that is the locomotive that accelerates the country's economy. This is the only incentive to work. To spend more people work, creating the very "army / defense industry / science / education / medicine, etc." Make them "save" (by methods known in history) and you will have none of the above.
                      1. Voyager
                        Voyager 8 October 2020 19: 12
                        +9
                        Quote: syndicalist
                        All over the world, it is consumption that is the locomotive that accelerates the country's economy.

                        If the money received from this consumption remains and circulates in the country, and is not invested in the economy of other countries.
                      2. syndicalist
                        syndicalist 8 October 2020 19: 19
                        +3
                        Even if the salary is invested in foreign currency, the work itself is invested in Russia and its results are also here. Make people "save" and we will have neither the first nor the second. For soldering, they will only imitate work.
                      3. Voyager
                        Voyager 8 October 2020 19: 46
                        +2
                        Quote: syndicalist
                        then the work itself is invested in Russia and its results are also here.

                        Once again, what is the relation of foreign tourist services and imported products to labor in Russia, except for the money received and paid along with taxes in favor of another state?
                      4. syndicalist
                        syndicalist 8 October 2020 20: 21
                        0
                        What's not clear. To buy currency, a person works in Russia for its own good. The result of his labor also remains in the country.
                      5. Masha from uralmash
                        Masha from uralmash 8 October 2020 22: 38
                        0
                        and he gives the reward for his labor to the enemies of the country, although he could leave it inside, so that it further turns the wheels of our economy, grows the taxable base, and, accordingly, state development programs.
                        And so he gave it to "partners", and it will already cut into economic circles and grow there until the local cosmopolitan, or an irresponsible citizen, decides to present it to another country. In my opinion, if there is an opportunity, that is, other things being equal, it is more profitable to spend within the home economy, and the more citizens do this, the more efficient the economy will become.
                      6. 72jora72
                        72jora72 12 October 2020 05: 23
                        0
                        and he gives the reward for his labor to the enemies of the country, although he could leave it inside so that it continues to spin the wheels of our economy,
                        So do so that people would leave money in our resorts, and not in Turkey and Thailand. What is the problem? But there is nothing further than slogans, this year I was in Baltiysk (Pilau), a funky city, a naval base, a white sand beach, but ... not a single dressing room, the train from Kaliningrad runs once a week, once a week Karl !!... Prior to that, since July 2, I rested in the Alushta boarding house, 12 tr. a day, and a maximum of 2-star service. Baikal? Well, go and see, after the local service, I assure you, never go there again. Our people are not so rich that it would really be worthy to relax in their country .........
            2. Masha from uralmash
              Masha from uralmash 8 October 2020 19: 34
              +1
              It's not about saving, but about spending in the home economy, so that the capital here turns around and multiplies (from the multiplier effect), and works for the growth of our economy, and through taxes on our "army / defense industry / science / education / medicine, etc." and not imported (Turkish, in the case of tourism). As soon as the ruble / dollar flowed there, it stopped spinning our wheels, but started partnering
            3. Seaflame
              Seaflame 10 October 2020 13: 11
              +3
              Listen, the Germans, Swedes, Norwegians, US citizens are much more resting abroad than Russians and nothing. Arles Burke is stamped, the last pants are not given. Our problem is not in tourism, but in sawing, embezzlement, corruption, kumovst and all the other delights of bureaucrats from EdRo!
          2. swzero
            swzero 9 October 2020 13: 46
            -2
            The consumption of goods produced by its own industry is the locomotive of the economy, but not the banal export of capital from the country through tourism and the consumption of foreign goods - this is the development of the economies of the respective countries no more. Somehow, under Comrade Stalin, they worked without foreign trips and goods, and, judging for example by the state of the most technological areas - such as space and aviation - they worked better.
    2. swzero
      swzero 8 October 2020 13: 31
      0
      Updated data in 18, overseas tourists spent $ 34,5 billion.
      In 19, the growth in the number of trips is 8%, the amount is about 37 kk bucks. For example, the entire budget of the Ministry of Defense in 2019 is 46 kk bucks. The budget for science, education and health care for 10kk bucks approximately.
  • New Year day
    New Year day 8 October 2020 08: 17
    19
    Quote: Civil
    The country needs currency, that's all. Where did they start and sailed

    Don't feed the horse! How much currency has come since the beginning of 2000, and the result is obvious. Degradation of everything and everyone. Currency corrupted the mind, they decided that everything could be bought, but it turned out that even with the bourgeoisie it was not so. So we get the donut hole
    1. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 8 October 2020 15: 53
      +6
      Quote: Silvestr
      Currency corrupted the mind, they decided that everything could be bought, but it turned out that even with the bourgeoisie it was not so. So we get the donut hole

      Under the Soviet Union, they were imprisoned for currency - the price tags did not change for years.
      In the 90s, under Gaidar, even in stores, price tags began to be drawn in U.E. - hucksters changed prices 2-3 times a day.

      I do not associate the rise in prices DIRECTLY with the free circulation of currency - there was still a lot of everything, but as one of the factors ...
      And further. During perestroika, the ruble was called "wooden", and the dollar was called "hard currency". I understand that "hard currency" is when it is backed by something. Gold, goods or something else material. And how is the American "hard currency" secured? "Honest noble" word from the Fed?
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 8 October 2020 17: 23
        +2
        the American "hard currency" is provided primarily by suckers. Those who long for it, save up and pay for their goods in it.
        1. Seaflame
          Seaflame 10 October 2020 13: 16
          +1
          The American currency is backed by technologies (I'll try to guess, you have a state-owned Windows OS and a state-owned Intel processor on your computer. You weren't mistaken, admit it?) And foreign policy aimed at protecting your economic interests.
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 10 October 2020 20: 19
            -1
            Stop clowning .. Uh-huh, 300 million snouts are fed by software .. That is why they have debts like the rest of the world and a deficit of half the planet. Besides software and processes - have you seen a lot of made in USA products?
            1. Seaflame
              Seaflame 10 October 2020 23: 19
              +2
              I have seen enough, from satellite communications and navigation systems to power plants on merchant ships (albeit assembled in China, Indonesia, the Philippines, etc.). This is only in the area that was associated with my prof. activities. And if you ask around specialists and operators, say, civil aviation or specialists in the oil industry, there are probably a lot of state-owned systems, installations, instruments, etc.
      2. SouzniK
        SouzniK 8 October 2020 18: 29
        -2
        Quote: Zoldat_A
        I do not associate the rise in prices DIRECTLY with the free circulation of currency - there was still a lot of everything, but as one of the factors ...
        And further. During perestroika, the ruble was called "wooden", and the dollar was called "hard currency". I understand that "hard currency" is when it is backed by something. Gold, goods or something else material. And how is the American "hard currency" secured? "Honest noble" word from the Fed?

        I often think about this too .. So they began to call it "wooden ruble" contemptuously .. And this ruble, in my opinion, is secured, like more than one currency in the world!
        The speculators of the US stock exchange put us in such a way that we finance their economy at the expense of their green papers .. But I hope this will soon come to an end .. The golden ruble is a panacea, but it smells like war. Vaughn Gaddafi gave a hint about the golden dinar during the calculations and immediately died a terrible death.
    2. Voyager
      Voyager 8 October 2020 19: 13
      -3
      Quote: Silvestr
      Degradation of everything and everyone.


      What, and the army has degraded since the 2000s?
    3. da Vinci
      da Vinci 10 October 2020 21: 53
      +1
      Currency? Maybe "Almaz-Anteya", where the assemblers bought the apartment? Or maybe to Merdyukov for a new chair, or Vasilyeva on an easel ??? No.
  • kava61
    kava61 8 October 2020 23: 54
    -4
    The country needs a sales market, and it's not for nothing that the United States imposes sanctions on everyone who buys weapons from us. So this is not stupidity, but the ability to fight for the market. If they sell С400, then we already have better complexes, but no one will tell you about it.
  • Hagalaz
    Hagalaz 8 October 2020 07: 45
    22
    What is there to understand? They obviously wanted to make friends with Turkey. They helped with the riot, gas, nuclear power plant, rockets. Engage in your orbit in general. Another thing is not clear. What preconditions made it possible to consider this possible?
    1. Malyuta
      Malyuta 8 October 2020 08: 09
      +9
      Quote: Hagalaz
      What preconditions made it possible to consider this possible?

      The napkins thought that everything can be bought, sold and bought again.
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 8 October 2020 08: 40
        -11 qualifying.
        I read all the commentators and smile a little. Guys, what is your analysis of the situation based on? Does the GRU, SVR and some other structures work for you? Do you have a team of analysts who are calculating all possible scenarios for the development of the situation, both in the Caucasus and adjacent territories, and in the world in general?
        1. Revival
          Revival 8 October 2020 09: 36
          35
          I'm embarrassed to ask, are these the ones who brilliantly calculated the situation with Ukraine, Belarus, squeaks, bulk, our downed plane, etc.?
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 8 October 2020 09: 51
            -25 qualifying.
            And what is bad in Ukraine and Belarus? Belarus already belongs to Moscow with the "giblets". Ukraine is on its way. The situation with Skripal, Navalny, Nemtsov, in principle, cannot be calculated, because any, even the most harmless, can be presented as a terrible crime. For example - the candidate for the presidency of Banderland Yushchenko, injected with Botox to look "prettier" in front of the electorate. But, either the doctor did not calculate the dosage, or the reaction of the body is this))) but as a result - poisoning with Russian dioxin, even the person who brought this dioxin to Ukraine is known. 17 years have passed, no one is in a hurry with the investigation)))
            1. Revival
              Revival 8 October 2020 10: 27
              20
              "What's wrong with Ukraine?"

              Well, I don't know what to tell you, if the events with Ukraine are good for you, then I pass ..
              1. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 8 October 2020 11: 04
                -18 qualifying.
                Actually, I live in Ukraine and I see that the situation is developing in the direction that Russia needs.
                1. Kronos
                  Kronos 8 October 2020 11: 11
                  14
                  Do you need this in the sense of preparing British bases?
                2. TermNachTer
                  TermNachTer 9 October 2020 09: 08
                  -5
                  British bases are the delirium of a stoned idiot who does not think that he is speaking and does not bear any responsibility for the delirium that he carries)))) in order to allow the presence of a foreign base on the territory of Banderland, it is necessary to amend the constitution. And zelebobiks now do not have a constitutional majority, they just do not have a majority in the top zrada))) if you follow the events in the Banderland, you might already have noticed that the prez and other higher ones, such as leaders, are outright nonsense) )) no one takes them seriously. Moreover, they are already openly sent. When Kuev gave the order to tighten quarantine measures, the mayors of large cities refused to comply with this order and made explanations to the residents of the cities. And fffsee)))) brought criminal cases against them, which will not reach the court))) 0
        2. 72jora72
          72jora72 12 October 2020 05: 27
          +4
          I'm embarrassed to ask, are these the ones who brilliantly calculated the situation with Ukraine, Belarus, squeaks, bulk, our downed plane, etc.?
          with Karabakh, Kyrgyzstan .........
      2. MKPU-115
        MKPU-115 8 October 2020 17: 53
        -12 qualifying.
        Quote: TermNachTER
        I read all the commentators and smile a little. Guys, what is your analysis of the situation based on? Does the GRU, SVR and some other structures work for you? Do you have a team of analysts who are calculating all possible scenarios for the development of the situation, both in the Caucasus and adjacent territories, and in the world in general?

        At least one sane comment. Here the people on this issue do not have even a hundredth share of the true information on the contract, and what our people have come up with, what a multi-move, but the conclusions and conclusions make one more absurd than the other with enviable persistence.
      3. syndicalist
        syndicalist 8 October 2020 19: 09
        0
        Quote: TermNachTER
        You have a team of analysts who calculate all possible scenarios for the development of the situation,

        Don't say - they argue without a clue. Maybe the Dardanelles have been promised to us, or hundreds of Bayraktors obtained through barter are already guarding our borders.
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 9 October 2020 09: 16
          -4
          These "bayraktars" were given to you)))) their super efficiency is achieved due to Turkish TV))) is assembled from imported components, tomorrow supplies will be prohibited and the super - duper UAV will run out. By the way, one "bayraktar" ukroSS has already been ditched, either an operator error, or some other reason. But now in Starkonstantinov they feverishly figure out how to write off the expensive Turkish "tsyatska" and not substitute themselves)))
          1. 72jora72
            72jora72 12 October 2020 05: 30
            +1
            These "bayraktars" were given to you)))) their super efficiency is achieved due to Turkish TV))) is assembled from imported components
            Since last year, the Turks have completely switched to domestic production.
            1. Airdefense
              Airdefense 12 October 2020 08: 46
              -1
              And has the Wescam CMX-15D OLS module already been imported?
            2. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 12 October 2020 11: 38
              0
              Motor too?
            3. TermNachTer
              TermNachTer 12 October 2020 12: 10
              0
              Didn't go over. Some kind of engine casting is supplied by a foreign manufacturer. So, "bayraktar" can say goodbye to Turkey at any moment. And engines for "Anka" are bought in Ukraine, because Canada said goodbye. Banderlyand is a very dumb supplier, tomorrow the Washington Reich Chancellery will say: "Stop" - and ffsssёёё)))
          2. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 12 October 2020 11: 40
            0
            Bayraktarov in Libya sawed two dozen and two more in Idlib. Well, a couple more Anoks.
  • Kamarada
    Kamarada 8 October 2020 15: 41
    14
    And the Turks and the plane were shot down and the ambassador crashed in gratitude.
  • syndicalist
    syndicalist 8 October 2020 18: 54
    0
    Quote: Hagalaz
    Another thing is not clear. What preconditions made it possible to consider this possible?

    Do you doubt the wisdom of senior management?
  • kava61
    kava61 8 October 2020 23: 58
    -6
    Turkey will depend on us from such friendship. From the supply of gas, from the fuel for the nuclear power plant, from the supply of missiles for the S-400, they themselves cannot reproduce them. So you don't need to look at everything through the eyes of the cook in the kitchen.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 8 October 2020 07: 16
    0
    Quote: Far In
    Nothing personal, just business. As with all "partners" - they sanction us, we give them titanium alloys and an expression of concern. They give us sanctions, we give them rocket engines and expressions of concern. They give us sanctions again, we give them oil and gas and an expression of concern. Loot wins evil not, along the way, it even wins common sense.

    We will not supply gas, there will be others. The same with titanium. Are you ready to give up entire industries for the sake of politics?
    1. Far B
      Far B 8 October 2020 07: 26
      12
      We will not supply gas, there will be others. The same with titanium. Are you ready to give up entire industries for the sake of politics?
      Fuck it? And if so: to develop entire industries within the country and redirect there the currently exported gas and titanium? But - poorly, I understand ... "These are not our methods" (c)
      1. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 8 October 2020 10: 26
        -1
        Quote: Far In
        We will not supply gas, there will be others. The same with titanium. Are you ready to give up entire industries for the sake of politics?
        Fuck it? And if so: to develop entire industries within the country and redirect there the currently exported gas and titanium? But - poorly, I understand ... "These are not our methods" (c)

        So tell this to Putin. Why should I say? Such volumes of titanium and gas inside the country are not needed. There will be an order from the aviation industry, titanium will be made for them. There will be an order from Roskosmos, they will make engines for them. Everything is determined by the market. And you just propose to close plant and shut down the wells, just to annoy them.
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 8 October 2020 08: 20
      +8
      Quote: Pilat2009
      titanium. Are you ready to bury entire industries for the sake of politics?

      Isn't it so now? How about aircraft manufacturing, for example?
      1. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 8 October 2020 13: 06
        -3
        Quote: Silvestr
        Quote: Pilat2009
        titanium. Are you ready to bury entire industries for the sake of politics?

        Isn't it so now? How about aircraft manufacturing, for example?

        So let's put the rest away. The aviation industry, like the auto industry, bent down from natural reasons. If a plant is not able to make competitive products, it is not a tenant
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 9 October 2020 00: 29
          +3
          Quote: Pilat2009
          if a plant is not able to make competitive products, it is not a tenant

          And what is competitively capable of us?
          1. Pilat2009
            Pilat2009 9 October 2020 07: 00
            -6
            Quote: Silvestr
            Quote: Pilat2009
            if a plant is not able to make competitive products, it is not a tenant

            And what is competitively capable of us?

            Metal, chemistry, fertilizers. Proton cannons are also made for the treatment of cancer, they are supplied abroad. Well, fighters are not bad. I don’t even know from heavy engineering. Rostselmash rivets harvesters, buses, but this is all for the domestic market and the CIS
      2. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 8 October 2020 16: 50
        0
        I looked, we are doing only MFIs without exporting 30-40 cars a year. This is somewhere after the United States and is apparently comparable to the PRC, surpassing the Chinese in quality.
        And with titanium it really does hit. Our production of titanium is several times greater than the needs of the aviation industry and others for the banal reason that the USSR dabbled in titanium nuclear submarines, which we are not doing now is nonsense. That is why we can make titanium a lot, a lot.
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 8 October 2020 18: 38
          0
          Quote: Cyril G ...
          we do only IFIs without export

          What is MFI, a multifunctional fighter? So here a friend said that the build quality of Chinese cars is higher than in Komsomolsk
          1. Cyril G ...
            Cyril G ... 8 October 2020 19: 00
            0
            How did he compare? Or is it Michael from Israel writing?
            Yeah. Firstly, the resource of the engines is several times lower among the Chinese to this day. Non-combat losses are also higher. Engines are still bought on long-term contracts. To this day, the RD-93, and not the Chinese analogue, go to Thunder. Well, the last purchase of the Su-35 regiment.
            1. SouzniK
              SouzniK 8 October 2020 19: 04
              -1
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              How did he compare? Or is it Michael from Israel writing?

              Most likely Kirill, there are such hackers divorced ..)))
              Quote: Cyril G ...
              Firstly, the resource of the engines is several times lower among the Chinese to this day. Non-combat losses are also higher. Engines are still bought on long-term contracts. To this day, the RD-93, and not the Chinese analogue, go to Thunder. Well, the last purchase of the Su-35 regiment.

              That's right, only there is an agalite persecution of everything Russian and Russian .. The Anaconda plan in action. Alas hi We're holding on for now.
              1. Cyril G ...
                Cyril G ... 8 October 2020 19: 08
                0
                Alas, I cannot but agree.
                I will add. Immediately they tell us tales that the EPR of the F-35 is 4 orders of magnitude less than that of the Su-57. This is one second less than the area of ​​the average navel. Clowns are ...
    3. Plastmaster
      Plastmaster 8 October 2020 09: 15
      0
      So the profit is in what pockets settled. I would understand to start up a new one. And so .... As usual, everything is for yourself, greedy.
    4. kava61
      kava61 8 October 2020 23: 59
      -2
      Here is a competent answer to all cooks and whiners.
  • Malyuta
    Malyuta 8 October 2020 07: 26
    12
    Quote: Dalny V
    Nothing personal, just business. As with all "partners" - they sanction us, we give them titanium alloys and an expression of concern. They give us sanctions, we give them rocket engines and expressions of concern. They give us sanctions again, we give them oil and gas and an expression of concern. Loot conquers evil not on the go, it even wins common sense.

    Comrade, where did you get the idea that who out there from the thimblers who surfaced upstairs thinks about the country and the people?
    1. Far B
      Far B 8 October 2020 07: 43
      +2
      where did you get the idea that who out there from the thimblers who surfaced upstairs thinks about the country and the people?
      I didn't take it from anything))) I don't even think about such nonsense on a blue wave, it's checked laughing
      1. Malyuta
        Malyuta 8 October 2020 08: 07
        +6
        Quote: Dalny V
        I didn't take it from anything))) I don't even think about such nonsense on a blue wave, it's checked

        Here I am talking about it laughing But the adherents are quite sure of the bad boyars, the infallibility of the pugabe, netanalagafwmir, Zhidapechenegs and Pindapolovites.
  • _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 8 October 2020 13: 23
    -3
    Nothing personal, just business. As with all "partners" - they sanction us, we give them titanium alloys and an expression of concern. They give us sanctions, we give them rocket engines and expressions of concern. They give us sanctions again, we give them oil and gas and an expression of concern. Loot conquers evil not on the go, it even wins common sense.
    do you have a better option? we are not monopolists in the market of alloys, oil, gas, others will sell, but we already have a budget deficit, do you propose to spite your mother's ears?
    1. kava61
      kava61 9 October 2020 00: 01
      -3
      They think to live like Ukrainians, in spite of Russia we will buy gas more expensively, we will not give water, let our land spoil. We will not trade and we will sever relations, we will lose aviation and rocket manufacturing plants. shipbuilding, but let's not be friends.
  • NEXUS
    NEXUS 8 October 2020 20: 35
    +3
    Quote: Dalny V
    Loot conquers evil not on the way, it even wins common sense.

    And this is the main law of Capitalism, which Yeltsin and his Western advisers imposed on us. Don't give a damn about morality, morals, convictions ... only profit is important.
    1. kava61
      kava61 9 October 2020 00: 02
      -3
      Well, shut yourself off from the world and live like in North Korea, it will make you better, you won't even go beyond your hut.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 9 October 2020 00: 53
        +2
        Quote: kava61
        Well, shut yourself off from the world and live like in North Korea, it will make you better, you won't even go beyond your hut.

        Are you overheated? And then "close yourself from the world?" Young man, tell me, do you love your homeland? I am more than sure that most young people do not even have a clue that the Motherland can and should be loved.
        Here is a simple American girl congratulated the Russians on Cosmonautics Day and sang a song ... I'm sure you have never even heard it, because you are a lot of yelling and sticking out your chest, but turn your head on and stop a little and think, this is not about you ... and not about the younger generation ...
        [media = https: //youtu.be/HWAY94Hhc-I]
  • evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru
    evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru 9 October 2020 20: 30
    0
    Not so easy. ..Communists also believed that ,, the matter is in money ,, (,, Brother-2 ,,). Everything is worse. Oh and not ,, the golden calf ,, serve (this is not the ,, tenth ,,, but not the first). They specifically serve a particular Satan. They serve evil. For this “conscientious” service, God deprives them of reason, deprives them of wisdom. The mind is, but the mind is not. Like Satan. He is smart, cunning, quirky, but at a strategic level he goes from. That pizza.
    I don’t want to discuss it with you. I mean, Timur ... Oddly enough, there is still hope for him. Not only people, but also Heavens all expect something from him .... They look, wonder and wait. Even in a leap year, they still give the opportunity ...
    But the "team" - those are "experts". It's not enough to hide the warehouses of the BC under the ground for decades, but make a pentagram in the form of a gate so that people bow to the filthy symbol (,, itself ,,, there is no spiritual component, ,, are playing naughty, rascals?) Put in the park - oh and here as here.
    Why is there a pentagram over the Kremlin? Why do you need a pentagram on Russian aircraft and armored vehicles? On the shoulder straps of officers and warrant officers? After all, a well-known high-ranking comrade can demonstratively baptize his head before the start of the parade. And that the pentagram is unconditional rubbish he doesn't know? He doesn't know that the Russian Star is eight-pointed ?!
    And if they do, then why are they pigs on the Russian land? Why do they believe that this will pass with impunity?
    Meanness comes first, stupidity - second. Following. This has been the case for millennia. Hence - all the failures in domestic and foreign policy of contemporary "Russian" leaders. Not the author of the commentary came up with: “Whom God wants to punish - deprives of reason”.
    After all, it would seem, you don't need much mind. Take a look at the History Book ... It clearly tells about the relationship between Turkey and Russia. But ..., what was going on, what was driving ... And when the roasted rooster, very soon, will bite into a certain place, everyone will clap their eyes in bewilderment, go otiki
  • da Vinci
    da Vinci 10 October 2020 21: 51
    +2
    I can imagine: Reagan sanctions by the USSR, Brezhnev - weapons to the Mujahideen, but on credit for Afghan cobblestones !!!
  • da Vinci
    da Vinci 10 October 2020 21: 58
    +1
    Another SU57 to sell to the Turks, and to the Chinese (for xerkos), and the Algerian army is so formidable that only the 5th generation aircraft is missing. Everything is for sale !!!
  • MrFox
    MrFox 11 October 2020 16: 48
    +1
    As one comrade said, this is no longer a country but a pipe-laying enterprise
  • Non liberoid Russian
    Non liberoid Russian 13 October 2020 06: 53
    -1
    you can send them a shish with butter and start paying taxes and salaries yourself instead of the lost export income
  • 210ox
    210ox 8 October 2020 06: 24
    -4
    Well, this is how we live in the world of capital. And here the country's defense can be pushed back.
    1. Pilot
      Pilot 8 October 2020 06: 37
      -5
      Then the collectives at the factories need to independently and quietly castrate the weapons sentenced by corrupt politicians to be exported to NATO countries. Somehow it is necessary to fight this lawlessness, even through sabotage and sabotage.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 8 October 2020 06: 46
        +4
        Quote: Pilot
        and by quietly castrating weapons sentenced by corrupt politicians to be exported to NATO countries.

        Aha, instead of fighting the corrupt politicians, you propose to bring labor collectives under the article. belay
        1. Pilot
          Pilot 8 October 2020 06: 50
          -1
          Fight if you are strong enough against systems... And I haven’t seen any national unification yet.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 8 October 2020 07: 07
            +1
            Quote: Pilot
            Fight if you are strong against the system

            And what you propose is also a struggle, only quietly.
            1. Pilot
              Pilot 8 October 2020 07: 10
              -2
              Yes, the fight. Feasible, until the people are ripe for unification against the SYSTEM.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 8 October 2020 07: 17
                13
                Quote: Pilot
                Yes, the fight. Feasible, until the people are ripe for unification against the SYSTEM.

                Here I have an analogy with the sabotage of the underground workers who worked for the Germans. It turns out that our country is occupied by the invaders. This is what sedition comes into my head.
                1. Malyuta
                  Malyuta 8 October 2020 07: 21
                  20
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  It turns out that our country is occupied by the invaders. This is what sedition comes into my head.

                  It is strange that many still have doubts) laughing
                2. Pilot
                  Pilot 8 October 2020 07: 22
                  +1
                  We understood the analogy correctly, colleague. A plus!
                3. Far B
                  Far B 8 October 2020 07: 31
                  21
                  It turns out that our country is occupied by the invaders. This is what sedition goes into my head
                  The subject of the essay was strange. "If the Germans won?" Vitya P. strained all his imagination and creaked with a pen. Alas, it turned out to be some kind of monstrous, unimaginable list of absurdities. This could not have happened in Russia. But it was not the Germans who won in the end.

                  1. There will be practically no industry in the country, the occupiers will be concerned only with pumping out natural resources from our territories.

                  2. Instead of the people's militiamen from the people there will be policemen from the rabble, there will be a lot of them, and the people will be afraid of them by more gangsters.

                  3. At each exit from the city the police will check those who are going to leave or come. Each resident will be required to register with the police at the place of residence.

                  4. To maintain the fear will create wild bands of mountain peoples. From time to time they will attack the local population, rob and kill. The police will fight them for the sake of appearance, but not kill a lot, so that there are people willing.

                  5. Rulers recruited from the particularly vile locals. The children and wives of the rulers will live for safety abroad. And they themselves take turns here on a rotational basis.

                  6. All the know will go only on the black German cars with sirens. Ordinary people during their journey will need to run to the side of the road and wait until they pass.

                  7. In the end, fascism will become the most popular doctrine from general despair. Only Russian. For his propaganda they will be imprisoned for 5 years - the lower race is not supposed to preach its superiority and quarrel with the chosen peoples.

                  8. Only the department for the fight against Russian fascism will be left from the NKVD in order to try to control this Russian fascism.

                  9. German goods will be considered the best and most desirable in Russia. Those who disagree will consider American goods the best and most desirable, but it will be considered disrespectful to the occupiers, and will be rewarded with the nickname "American Bed" or "Coyote". Those who call Russian goods the best will be declared abnormal (because Russians cannot produce better goods) and will not talk to them.

                  10. The President will speak German much better than Russian. This will only be shown on foreign television during his foreign visits to the German Reich.

                  11. Instead of vodka, beer will be advertised and sold everywhere, just like in Germany. It will be considered that beer does not drink too much, and that is why the Germans are so smart and their cities are so neat.

                  12. Those who fought against the Germans will receive pennies, and on holidays a meager dry ration.

                  13. The Russians killed in the war will be buried in mass graves, just to mark the burial somehow. For the found German tank "Tiger" T-IV will be paid in German currency several times more than for the T-34/85.

                  14. Most of the male population of the country will pass through the camps. To break the will to resist. For the rest, for the same purpose, they will talk a lot and often about the horrors of the camps.

                  15. Teachers and doctors in the occupied territories will receive maintenance at a minimum, only so that the population does not shrink and oskotinate not very quickly, and so that everyone thinks that desecration is not due to the actions of the occupiers, but because of America's nefarious plans.

                  16. On the distant outskirts of Russia, such as Primorye, partisans will probably remain. They will attack the policemen, but intimidated people will not help them.

                  17. Roads will not be built, and gasoline will make more expensive, so people sat home.

                  18. Weapons to the people will be strictly forbidden to have, so that they don’t suddenly rebel.

                  19. For the life of the population will insist on cheap multi-storey barracks with low ceilings, 8 meters per person. New barracks will be built by homeless slaves from the occupied republics of the USSR, even more powerless than the Russians. As the Russian population of the barracks dies out, the area norm will be increased to 19 meters. This will be presented by the invaders as improving the living conditions of the Russians.

                  20. The most agile and intelligent will give the opportunity to leave and live abroad, it will be considered a great success in life.

                  21. The main enemy of Russia will be declared to be America, which is making malicious plans. All the troubles of the occupation will be blamed on the machinations of America.

                  22. In the literature and cinema, permitted by the occupiers, specially invented plans will be printed about how America is corrupting the population of Russia, and it will be told how the occupiers are trying to protect it from these plans.

                  Vera Pavlovna pondered the assessment for a long time. And she gave 3 points. For a good fantasy, Vitya!
                  1. Malyuta
                    Malyuta 8 October 2020 07: 37
                    10
                    Quote: Dalny V
                    And she gave 3 points. For a good fantasy, Vitya!

                    I would call it Vitin's masterpiece! +100500!
                    And on my own I would not have added the "president", but a Gauleiter and one more point about wearing muzzles and prohibiting walking!
                    1. Far B
                      Far B 8 October 2020 07: 47
                      +3
                      and one more point about walking in muzzles and prohibiting walking!
                      - Eh, daragoy, when the Koran was written, the paths were not yet mined. Go ahead, Fatma! (from) laughing
                      Muzzles are, after all, a novelty of the current fashion season)))
                    2. for
                      for 8 October 2020 13: 15
                      +5
                      Quote: Dalny V
                      Muzzles are, after all, a novelty of the current fashion season)))

                      There will be diapers next year!
                4. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 8 October 2020 07: 57
                  +3
                  Quote: Dalny V
                  Vera Pavlovna pondered the assessment for a long time. And she gave 3 points. For a good fantasy, Vitya!

                  I somehow dreamed of something similar with a hangover. It was as if I was concussed in the Second World War under my hometown on the outskirts, and I woke up in a parallel reality, in our years, where nemchura won. There are two cities, one is sparkling with skyscrapers, and in the other there are three by three clay houses. Russian ragamuffins creep out from there, pass SS control and go to work. Well, I climbed into a skyscraper, typed some kind of nonsense, and then a young and beautiful German woman pulled herself up. All in leather, and with a swastika on his hand. She saw me, pressed the button, pulled out some kind of blaster, the siren rang foolish, and then I woke up. It turned out to be an alarm clock.
                5. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 8 October 2020 18: 12
                  -6
                  As I understand it, the communists were also ... occupiers? wink
                  Because half of the points (the same registration, obsolete cops, bosses in black cars, camps, a ban on weapons, housing and area norms, intrigues abroad) - this is all about him, darling, about the USSR.
              2. Senka naughty
                Senka naughty 8 October 2020 07: 32
                -8
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                Here I have an analogy with the sabotage of the underground workers who worked for the Germans. It turns out that our country is occupied by the invaders. This is what sedition comes into my head.

                Our site has been hijacked by liberal bots. with continuous sedition in the "pans".
                1. Malyuta
                  Malyuta 8 October 2020 07: 39
                  +9
                  Quote: Senka Mad
                  Our site has been hijacked by liberal bots. with continuous sedition in the "pans".

                  I agree, only captured by the reactionary crowd of scrapos on the battle couches laughing
              3. New Year day
                New Year day 8 October 2020 08: 51
                +7
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                It turns out that our country is occupied by the invaders.

                and maybe really? Live THERE, loot is mowed HERE
            2. Senka naughty
              Senka naughty 8 October 2020 07: 29
              -8
              Quote: Pilot
              Yes, the fight. Feasible, until the people are ripe for unification against the SYSTEM.

              Without the system, your "people" in a couple of decades will be spear fishing in the river. You read all this nonsense and wonder how it is that morons work in the Ministry of Defense, and geeks and strategists scribble comments on topwar. fellow
              1. Pilot
                Pilot 8 October 2020 07: 35
                -4
                The market liberals screamed laughing Sell ​​yourself to NATO, you want in the system, you want to yourself. Or already?
                1. Senka naughty
                  Senka naughty 8 October 2020 07: 40
                  -9
                  You insert more laughing faces, otherwise your bots with humor are tight as usual. We need to sell it, we need to build it, but we need to hit it, we’ll figure it out without you.
                  1. New Year day
                    New Year day 8 October 2020 08: 24
                    +9
                    Quote: Senka Mad
                    We need to sell it, we need to build it, but we need to hit it, we’ll figure it out without you.

                    It can be seen, you are our gifted! What about "streams", what about weapons, what about medicine and education laughing
                    Sorted out with unemployment, living standards, pensions and birth rates, gasoline prices? laughing
                  2. Senka naughty
                    Senka naughty 8 October 2020 18: 44
                    -12 qualifying.
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    It can be seen, you are our gifted! What about "streams", what about weapons, what about medicine and education
                    Sorted out with unemployment, living standards, pensions and birth rates, gasoline prices?

                    I forgot about Putin dwarf, thin hatches in tanks and thieves at the trough. Do not get lost with the scarecrow training manual. If you have problems with the above, it is only because you are a lazy handshake.
                    Not a site, but a breeding ground for mindless trolls.
                  3. New Year day
                    New Year day 9 October 2020 00: 28
                    +4
                    Quote: Senka Mad
                    If you have any of the listed problems

                    Looks like they boil you in the president's office, feed from a plate laughing
                    Quote: Senka Mad
                    Not a site, but a breeding ground for mindless trolls.

                    How exactly did you say about yourself
              2. Revival
                Revival 8 October 2020 09: 51
                +1
                This is the right approach!
                One thing I ask, do not delay, push it into a good wall with all its might, you have a head! So win!
          2. Malyuta
            Malyuta 8 October 2020 07: 53
            +4
            Quote: Senka Mad
            Without the system, your "people" in a couple of decades will be spear fishing in the river

            This is what Putinism wants!
            Quote: Senka Mad
            You read all this nonsense and wonder how it is that morons work in the Ministry of Defense, and geeks and strategists scribble comments on topwar.

            In the department of shaigi, a lot of generals work tirelessly of all parts of the body, this is the "mind", "honor" and "conscience" of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation wassat
            And you continue to drown in a divine bully
            1. Revival
              Revival 8 October 2020 09: 54
              +1
              Yes, he is obsessed with a diva, but the trouble is, they began to expel from public places, the smell of a diva is very intolerable ..
          3. New Year day
            New Year day 8 October 2020 08: 50
            +4
            Quote: Senka Mad
            Without the system, your "people" in a couple of decades will be spear fishing in the river.

            it is thanks to this system that IT is already happening now
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 8 October 2020 08: 58
          +4
          Quote: Pilot
          until the people are ripe for unification against the SYSTEM.

          IN AND. Lenin. "The collapse of the II International", 1915
          "... three main features:
          1) The impossibility for the ruling classes to preserve their domination unchanged; this or that crisis of the "top", a crisis in the politics of the ruling class, creating a crack into which the discontent and indignation of the oppressed classes breaks out. For the onset of a revolution, it is usually not enough that "the lower classes do not want", but it is also required that the "upper classes cannot" live in the old way.
          2) The exacerbation, above usual, of the needs and miseries of the oppressed classes.
          3) A significant increase, due to these reasons, the activity of the masses, in the "peaceful" era, allowing themselves to be robbed calmly, and in stormy times, attracted, both by the entire crisis situation and by the "tops", to independent historical performance.
          Without these objective changes, independent of the will of not only individual groups and parties, but also individual classes, revolution - as a general rule - is impossible. "
          "... a revolution does not arise from every revolutionary situation, but only from such a situation when the subjective changes are added to the objective changes listed above."
          What is this subjective change? "According to Lenin" is the ability of the revolutionary class to carry out revolutionary mass actions strong enough to break (or break) the old government, which will never, even in times of crises, "fall" if it is not "dropped"
        3. Firelake
          Firelake 11 October 2020 10: 54
          -1
          As I understand it, this is a call to overthrow the constitutional order? Department E is not asleep. In your left frenzy you follow what you write.
    2. Malyuta
      Malyuta 8 October 2020 07: 24
      +3
      Quote: Pilot
      Fight if you are strong enough against the system. And I haven’t yet seen a national association.

      Comrade, the inhabitants are busy with the daily production of food, and while in their heads one goal is to suddenly get rich and become boyars.
      1. Khodanov
        Khodanov 8 October 2020 20: 45
        0
        This is for the time being. After a generation, at most two, they will behave quite differently.
  • New Year day
    New Year day 8 October 2020 08: 21
    +3
    Quote: Pilot
    fight, even through sabotage and sabotage.

    Incidentally, this is a criminal offense. Calling for riot?
    He moves all the beds, maybe the girls need to be changed?
  • kava61
    kava61 9 October 2020 00: 04
    -4
    Harming someone, yourself, then they won't buy anything from you. Who needs castrated Lada, here and there. Don't write nonsense anymore.
  • antivirus
    antivirus 8 October 2020 07: 56
    -1
    ... and against Greece with Cyprus ................................
    everything has a price .. and alliance
    to destroy something you need, you must first buy ... what? or who?
  • PROVINCIAL
    PROVINCIAL 8 October 2020 10: 34
    -1
    Turkey's aspiration is to create an independent center of power (empire, panturtium is not important). Its expansion was expected. If you think about it, the current situation (in NKR and Armenia) is in Russia's hands. Turkey is now a situational ally We do not know all the details, but I think that NK was simply given away (from Russia). It is also clear that Russia will not allow Armenia (without disputed territories) to be touched (the question is still open - how the state of Armenia will be preserved, but in what boundaries time and the chessboard will show)
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 8 October 2020 20: 49
      +2
      Quote: PROVINCIAL
      It is also clear that Russia will not allow Armenia (without disputed territories) to be touched



      Do you really think so? I'm full of doubts. And it would be okay to have a picket of blockheads. So there and the internal policy is saturated with Russophobia.
      1. kava61
        kava61 9 October 2020 00: 06
        0
        Moreover, Karabakh is not Armenia and is recognized by the UN as the territory of Azerbaijan, that is the whole problem.
  • iouris
    iouris 8 October 2020 11: 09
    -2
    Quote: Uncle Lee
    And what is there to guess! Turkey to NATO !!!

    Not this way.
    What's there to guess? Turkey to NATO.
    (Hare, put the stress correctly!)
  • ximkim
    ximkim 8 October 2020 06: 03
    0
    These S-400s supplied to Turkey will not give rest and sleep to the VO commentators. For the enemy is nearby ..
    1. Andy
      Andy 8 October 2020 06: 26
      12
      Much closer - in the Kremlin
      1. ximkim
        ximkim 8 October 2020 06: 57
        -4
        Yes, if there is a conflict between our countries, it will be necessary to eliminate air defense and air force facilities.
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 8 October 2020 08: 26
      +1
      Quote: ximkim
      For the enemy is near ..

      Incidentally, Putin called this the reason for the entry of troops into Syria laughing
      Don't listen to the supreme request
      1. ximkim
        ximkim 8 October 2020 08: 37
        -1
        Since 2013, I have not listened to him)). And the reasons for the introduction of troops into Syria (this is for his audience), that they say there are terrorists. In fact, VVP said that the last Moscow-Damascus train departs from the platform and the route is closed. So they jumped into the vestibule with cheeky laces (a further fall, bruises), and therefore the paters are coming, since no one thought and was not ready for the campaign in Syria.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 8 October 2020 09: 01
          +3
          Quote: ximkim
          In fact, VVP was told that the last Moscow-Damascus train departs from the platform and the route is closed.

          would then be closed "Nord Stream", which. however, they all covered themselves with a copper basin. And with Assad it will be the same as with Najibullah. Russia will not fight forever in Syria.
          1. ximkim
            ximkim 8 October 2020 09: 05
            +1
            Here! The key word is Northern Streams ", which, however, were covered with a copper basin. Russia has projects and money from these projects, which can be influenced by other persons. Therefore, the Russian Federation is failing.
        2. kava61
          kava61 9 October 2020 00: 08
          -3
          What losses, you can compare how many NATO troops were killed there and how many of ours. Enough Volodya to write nonsense.
  • Stas157
    Stas157 8 October 2020 06: 09
    +6
    Goal in their own goal

    Why did they sell it at all? Did you need money? So it will cost more.
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 8 October 2020 07: 18
      +2
      Quote: Stas157
      Goal in their own goal

      Why did they sell it at all? Did you need money? So it will cost more.

      Friends don't feel sorry for anything
    2. kava61
      kava61 9 October 2020 00: 09
      -3
      This is the conclusion of a layman who does not know beyond his own nose.
  • Dodikson
    Dodikson 8 October 2020 06: 20
    +3
    and when did the 9M96E2 become ultra-long-range?
    1. military_cat
      military_cat 8 October 2020 07: 13
      +1
      I'm much more interested in when they became hit-to-kill rockets.
  • Dizel200
    Dizel200 8 October 2020 06: 32
    +2
    Under Stalin, "effective" business managers would be shot
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 8 October 2020 08: 26
      +7
      Quote: Dizel200
      Under Stalin, "effective" business managers would be shot

      And rightly so
    2. kava61
      kava61 9 October 2020 00: 09
      -2
      Therefore, under Stalin, the war began from Moscow, not from Brest.
  • gregor6549
    gregor6549 8 October 2020 06: 39
    +4
    This is not one goal, but many goals. Moreover, both into their own gates and into the gates of the allies in OKDB. But what if the grandmother is blindfolded
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 8 October 2020 06: 58
    +1
    SAMs are supplied to the customer in a finally assembled and equipped form in sealed transport and launch containers for ship-based air defense systems, and in a special collapsible cassette for four air defense systems in a TPK for ground-based air defense systems. Range 40 km.
    These are new missiles for us as part of the S-400, hit-to-kill interception in the United States has been developed for a long time. The gas-dynamic belt is also not a super secret invention. And if you consider that access to the missile is still limited because of the TPK, hardly anyone will allow you to simply open the container just in order to remove the missiles from there for disassembly. By doing this, they are deprived of 4 missiles of ammunition load at once - and most likely also two guarantees for the maintenance of the complex.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 8 October 2020 07: 15
    +2
    For Turkey, this is of course a gift that still needs to be used somehow, according to the mind ...
    But for the developed countries of the Western bloc there is nothing fundamentally new, that they do not know, do not do it themselves, NO!
    1. svoit
      svoit 8 October 2020 10: 02
      -1
      So it is written in the article that the purpose of the disassembly is to find opposition to it, and not copy
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 8 October 2020 12: 41
        +1
        In general, even in the USSR, they made products for export. There was always a risk that she would leave / flow away to the enemy! Measures to neutralize such losses were taken at every possible level ....
        Do you think something has changed since then? When everything is carried out at the official level, adequate measures are taken .... here acquired with the help of espionage / betrayal, this is a completely different calico!
        Our real enemy, states with a high level of development of science and technology, industry! If they don’t do something like we do, they probably don’t consider it as advanced as they would like !!! Because technically, they can repeat almost everything that we have, we do.
        1. ZEMCH
          ZEMCH 9 October 2020 17: 24
          +2
          Quote: rocket757
          In general, even in the USSR, they made products for export. There was always a risk that she would leave / flow away to the enemy! Measures to neutralize such losses were taken at every possible level ....
          Do you think something has changed since then? When everything is carried out at the official level, adequate measures are taken .... here acquired with the help of espionage / betrayal, this is a completely different calico!
          Our real enemy, states with a high level of development of science and technology, industry! If they don’t do something like we do, they probably don’t consider it as advanced as they would like !!! Because technically, they can repeat almost everything that we have, we do.

          Likewise, we carry what we can))) We have a radar, we got the hardware normally, but we couldn't do the "math", we had to finish it ourselves, so "our" radar turned out to be better than the original))))
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 9 October 2020 18: 50
            0
            That's right, the agents are working, they are getting military and technological information!
            Copying is not always necessary, we have enough skilled craftsmen who only need an example, an idea, a push, and they will create a similar one, or even better.
        2. Mikhail Ya2
          Mikhail Ya2 9 October 2020 20: 59
          0
          So the latest Soviet fighters at that time were hijacked to Israel from Syria and Iraq. This helped Israel develop counter-tactics. So it is with the S-400. Nobody needs to disassemble them. They need algorithms and channels to intercept and lock targets. Having identified all this, they will build tactics and electronic warfare for a successful confrontation.
      2. Cyril G ...
        Cyril G ... 8 October 2020 16: 55
        +2
        You never know what the author will write garbage. The Turks need their own complex in production. Therefore, they look, study, shoot. Think about their own.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 9 October 2020 18: 54
          +1
          Any serious product requires its own design school, its own designers on this topic.
          That's what they do ... the example of the Chinese, as an example of such a process.
      3. kava61
        kava61 9 October 2020 00: 11
        -5
        While they study, come up with a reaction, we will already have other complexes and other algorithms for the operation of air defense. the world does not stand still as you are here.
  • dgonni
    dgonni 8 October 2020 07: 21
    -3
    What's there to guess then? The British announced a week ago that the S-400 was no longer a hindrance to them.
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 8 October 2020 09: 45
      0
      So you declare that they are lying, and they are kirdyk right after takeoff. They said about the newcomer, but at least there is a word of truth? Believe small-haired people, do not respect themselves.
    2. MKPU-115
      MKPU-115 8 October 2020 18: 07
      0
      Quote: dgonni
      What's there to guess then? The British announced a week ago that the S-400 was no longer a hindrance to them.

      Yeah, well let them come
    3. kava61
      kava61 9 October 2020 00: 12
      -1
      You can say whatever you want, but for some reason they do not dare to poke their attention.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 8 October 2020 07: 24
    -3
    It is very similar to the performance of the Japanese song "Atomuliyadala", which means "Doubt" ...
  • Dimy4
    Dimy4 8 October 2020 07: 27
    +4
    It would look something like this if Stalin had sold Katyushas to Hitler during the war. And no cunning "long-range sights", they are sore "cunning plans", which cover up all their stupid actions. Modern weapons were sold to the enemy - that's the whole story.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 8 October 2020 08: 00
      +2
      Hitler had his own roaring donkey. Well, that is, there is no point in buying something for the major army in that war. There is zero sense from 100 units of equipment, only worries.

      However, you are right here. Soviet partners had the opportunity to buy the latest - 109E, 88, 111, triplets of fresh serial modifications, etc. They also actually bought a heavy cruiser - although the Germans stopped supplying components during the final stretch. We bought several projects of cruisers, leaders and destroyers from a friend of Hitler, a ready-made Tashkent, a bunch of components (fire control systems, ship vehicles, communications).

      But Stalin skillfully played the role - and we ourselves are in sandals. And the "allied" delegations had the opportunity to buy BT-5/7, T-26 of various models, T-28, I-15 bis, I-16, SB, etc.
    2. iouris
      iouris 8 October 2020 11: 32
      -3
      Quote: Dimy4
      if Stalin had sold Katyushas to Hitler during the war.

      Hitler would have refused.
    3. kava61
      kava61 9 October 2020 00: 14
      -5
      How do you know that you have sold modern weapons, you are the commander-in-chief or the minister of defense and you know what modern weapons we have. It was necessary to serve in the Army so as not to write nonsense, and this weapon is for defense, not attack, so it will not help them in aggression against Russia, and we are not going to attack anyone, that's the whole logic.
  • Alsur
    Alsur 8 October 2020 07: 36
    -5
    Quote: Dimy4
    It would look something like this if Stalin had sold Katyushas to Hitler during the war. And no cunning "long-range sights", they are sore "cunning plans", which cover up all their stupid actions. Modern weapons were sold to the enemy - that's the whole story.

    Stalin would sell, but he did not have a competitive product to buy. But not processed raw materials and food were exported to Hitler Germany to the last, the last train crossed the border on 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX. You mean you didn't know that?
    1. Far B
      Far B 8 October 2020 07: 53
      +8
      But not processed raw materials and food were exported to Hitler Germany to the last, the last train crossed the border on 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX
      Are you tired of speculating about these mantras? Then you will remember when the last echelon with German machines, on which tanks were made in the USSR until the very end of the war, crossed the border (in the opposite direction). And the Germans ate the raw materials back in 41.
    2. Gardamir
      Gardamir 8 October 2020 08: 20
      +4
      You mean you didn't know that?
      And you probably don't know that gas, oil, grain, metals are exported from the country. And Asiatica beaters are brought in. And everything is taken out to the Kremlin partners. which for Russia is no better than Hitler.
    3. iouris
      iouris 8 October 2020 11: 58
      +1
      And what? Why are you so excited?
      Stalin was the last in Europe to conclude a "non-aggression pact" with Hitler, when there was a strong threat of an attack by Japan and the loss of the Far East. This turned Japan's aggression southward. In addition, during the war with Finland, England and France planned to bomb Baku.
      USA - the most powerful force remained "neutral" right up to December 1941! And they could have supported Hitler if they "considered" that "Russia haylilakli behaved aggressively." And no questions for them.
      Stalin complied with the terms of the contract in order to maneuver as long as possible. And it was right.
  • Ingenegr
    Ingenegr 8 October 2020 08: 07
    0
    What the fuck is this ???
  • imobile2008
    imobile2008 8 October 2020 08: 08
    -1
    I don't see anything wrong. Things are good! It's okay to sell modern weapons. If you do not sell, it will get stuck at the same level, and so it will develop. The only thing is that the level of the architectural solution is not very high. That is, we cannot separate the secret part and the general one. When you buy American equipment, you are buying the right to operate, and a set of features. Everything else is protected. Our level of electronics is not very high yet, so we have access to data. But if they continue to buy, then specialists will appear who will do the right thing, we will have electronics and it's okay if they find out our secret codes or something else, we update the software and again it will be secret and the characteristics improve, while this is not the case. Remember how they imposed sanctions against the manufacturer of very good phones in China, the Chinese got a license cut off, and they could not start producing these phones, because they did not have the full technology, although absolutely all operations were done there.
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 8 October 2020 17: 00
      +2
      Quote: imobile2008
      we will have electronics and it's okay if they find out our secret codes

      Export products are either not completed with the requestor of Friend-Alien, or are sewn already at the destination.

      Quote: imobile2008
      or something else, we will update the software and will again be secret and the characteristics will improve while this is not the case.

      For export, products and so go with modified iron, avionics and software ...
    2. kava61
      kava61 9 October 2020 00: 21
      -2
      The garbage is complete, everyone knows the Kalashnikov assault rifle, but they still cannot produce it as the original, since no one knows the technology of its manufacture, materials science in its development, etc., although many countries produce, and here the S-400 is even less so will reproduce.
  • Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 8 October 2020 08: 38
    +2
    1. It is doubtful that Americans will learn anything new here. The general construct is already known to them, but any nuances that are significant at export installations are most likely deliberately changed, or even worsened.

    2. For reasons of humanity and asymmetry, Armenians need to sell more of any new missiles: daggers, calibers, Iskander. We will preserve parity and test the latest systems in combat conditions. Advertising, however.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 8 October 2020 09: 07
      -2
      Quote: Sancho_SP
      For reasons of humanity and asymmetry, the Armenians need to sell more of any new missiles: daggers, calibers, Iskander.

      so that they zhahnul with temperament in Turkey and rushed. Turkey for Armenia, and Russia for Armenia? laughing
      UN Security Council Resolution 884 of November 12, 1993:
      "Security Council,
      Reaffirming its resolutions 822 (1993) of 30 April 1993, 853 (1993) of 29 July 1993 and 874 (1993) of 14 October 1993 ...
      reaffirming the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and all other states in the region,
      also reaffirming the inviolability of international borders and the inadmissibility of the use of force to acquire territory .. "
      And the territory of the NKR is legally the territory of Azerbaijan.
      1. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 8 October 2020 10: 42
        -1
        Yes to health. All these contracts are no more expensive than the paper on which they are written. But the damage to the oil industry of Azerbaijan to Russia is generally beneficial.
  • Airdefense
    Airdefense 8 October 2020 08: 50
    +3
    Again this hysteria, and why not actually sell the S-400 in the export version, if it was intended for sale? What has changed is that the article draws an owl to the globe and without the S-400, Turkey, if desired, will land all aviation in the Karabakh region.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 8 October 2020 09: 16
      -3
      Quote: Airdefense
      Again this hysteria, and why not actually sell the S-400 in the export version, if it was intended for sale?

      Because Russia fought with Turkey for 400 years. And to sell weapon systems to such an "ally"?
      1. Airdefense
        Airdefense 8 October 2020 10: 52
        -1
        Well, that is, it is normal to travel to millions of tourists from Russia to Turkey and bring money to their economy for which, among other things, UAVs are produced, buying consumer goods, "tomatoes" from Turkey is also ok, but selling weapons intended for export is horror.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 8 October 2020 11: 29
          +1
          Quote: Airdefense
          Well, that is, it is normal for millions of tourists from Russia to travel to Turkey and bring money to their economy for which, among other things, UAVs are produced.

          I don't think this is normal. The attitude of the Turks to the Russians is well known, and there is enough negativity there.
      2. kava61
        kava61 9 October 2020 00: 23
        -1
        Russia and the Germans all its life fought with the Swedes and Poles, let's put up a fence and we won't sell anything to anyone, we'll eat it or bury it ourselves.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 9 October 2020 00: 54
          +1
          Quote: kava61
          Russia and the Germans all his life fought with the Swedes and Poles

          Swedes, Germans and Poles are much closer to us and dearer than the Ottomans. And I'm not saying that you don't need to sell anything. I am writing about weapons systems, moreover, they are not outdated. The Chinese have already been selling them, they are copying with might and main.
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 8 October 2020 17: 02
      +1
      Quote: Airdefense
      in the article pull an owl on a globe


      It's just that the author is illiterate, but he wants to eat. Hence such pearls. I read some topics that interest me personally purely because of the comments. There are very interesting ...
      1. Dikson
        Dikson 9 October 2020 06: 46
        +1
        Do you have to monitor at work? )))
        1. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 9 October 2020 10: 43
          0
          Not...........
    3. MKPU-115
      MKPU-115 8 October 2020 18: 11
      -1
      Quote: Airdefense
      Again this hysteria, and why not actually sell the S-400 in the export version, if it was intended for sale? What has changed is that the article draws an owl to the globe and without the S-400, Turkey, if desired, will land all aviation in the Karabakh region.

      If Russia allows wink
  • rotkiv04
    rotkiv04 8 October 2020 09: 01
    -3
    The "great strategist" and hockey player will have this deal more than once, although he will not be the first to compensate with tomatoes
  • Garist Pavel
    Garist Pavel 8 October 2020 09: 33
    +1
    Yeah guys, it's just capitalism. Of course, the Turks will allow the same Americans to study, they will learn to resist ... It's a shame. All these words about the competition for the markets are just blah blah blah for the narrow-minded.
    1. Airdefense
      Airdefense 8 October 2020 10: 55
      +1
      Otherwise, the Americans would not know how to counter air defense. Before that, they did not hack the air defense of other countries and they do not have air defense specialists and they do not produce their own.
    2. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 8 October 2020 17: 04
      0
      Quote: Garist Pavel
      Of course, the Turks will allow the same Americans to study, they will learn to resist ... It's a shame.


      Why don’t you tell the Turks this for an hour?
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 8 October 2020 09: 39
    0
    The fears are understandable, but ..... Since ours were sold, they were probably worried that the characteristics of our systems did not in any way fall under the desire of some comrades to arrange a byaka for us. After all, otherwise the whole meaning in our developments is lost, and the money, and the time and fruits of the labor of our designers will turn into dust. You shouldn't think so badly about the Russian people.
    1. iouris
      iouris 8 October 2020 11: 33
      +1
      It is necessary to add: "I think SO!"
    2. Dikson
      Dikson 8 October 2020 15: 55
      -3
      And tell me, are you aware of the fact that Israel broke the S-300 long ago, of which we have a lot in service? once sold, lost the second, handed over to friends, and those, to their friends ... And then we with sticks against tanks ...))
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 8 October 2020 16: 10
        0
        Seriously, why are these pussies working from the airspace of neighboring countries, and therefore, as they know, they will climb into the sky of Syria, then a northern furry animal from these three hundred will sneak up behind them from behind.
        1. Dikson
          Dikson 9 October 2020 06: 44
          -1
          "The Turkish unmanned aerial vehicle Bayraktar TB2, launched by Azerbaijan, destroyed the Armenian S-300 complex in Nagorno-Karabakh. This information is indirectly confirmed by yesterday's statement by the Azerbaijani Defense Ministry, which provided statistics on the destroyed enemy equipment. Among other things, there was one S-300 air defense system. A Turkish attack drone came very close to the positioning area and attacked the launcher of the complex. On the C-300 Bayraktar TB2 fired two missiles. After a successful attack, the drone tried to escape into the territory of Azerbaijan, but failed - the UAV was shot down. ".. from the news feeds .. By the way -Israel supplies Azerbaijan products to combat air defense systems .. so ..
          1. Ros 56
            Ros 56 9 October 2020 07: 19
            0
            To this, only one thing can be said, it was not the reel, the gouge was sitting in the cockpit. What not cool these systems, but they need to be managed and they need to be protected. Something like this. fellow
  • pyc.arpeccop tornado 150
    pyc.arpeccop tornado 150 8 October 2020 10: 31
    +1
    "Poplar leaves fell from an ash tree"
    As we undoubtedly know,
    but now you too,
    And just think, and really ... disappointing.
    1. iouris
      iouris 8 October 2020 11: 59
      -3
      Take comfort: if something happens ... we will all be there. The boom is to think that everyone has already died and ended up ... you know where (according to the approved order).
  • Operator
    Operator 8 October 2020 10: 41
    +1
    What such "aerospace attack means" are capable of maneuvering with an overload of 50-65 G? laughing
  • Imperial Technocrat
    Imperial Technocrat 8 October 2020 13: 00
    -7
    Turkey delivered a stripped-down version of the S-400, helpless against the Dagger and Iskander
  • Bongo
    Bongo 8 October 2020 13: 46
    +3
    Other formulations of the author "have no analogues"
    Unique potential ultra-long-range SAM 9M96E2
    wassat
    1. Cyril G ...
      Cyril G ... 8 October 2020 17: 06
      +2
      Das ist fantastish! Oh I-I !!!
  • Dikson
    Dikson 8 October 2020 15: 51
    -1
    Hooray! Friends from Turkey can now easily bring down our pilots taking off from the Crimea? And no one will get us over the head for this? Not in the Ministry of Defense or in the government? Money rules .. Well done. When will they start shooting for such sabotage? This is not some mythical espionage, but the most outright betrayal ..
    1. MKPU-115
      MKPU-115 8 October 2020 18: 22
      -1
      Quote: Dikson
      Hooray! Friends from Turkey can now easily bring down our pilots taking off from the Crimea?

      Dream Ukrainians, the export version of the S-400 is powerless against the Russian Aerospace Forces, it does not work, the missile will go to its zenith, Edik knows about this.
      1. Dikson
        Dikson 8 October 2020 23: 03
        -1
        Ukrainians from what side here? .. Look here .. - remember the case with the Chinese kit and the damage to its ammunition during transportation by sea? It seems to me that the situation there was the same - but someone watching in time realized that some enterprising person had shipped the products of the wrong configuration at the request of our Chinese friends to the Middle Kingdom .. and the products deteriorated on the way .. - sea water, salt ..) ) in general, the Chinese broke off with secrets and a non-export option .. but in the Turkish case? In the Turkish case, was someone watching defiantly looking aside while unloading missiles? ))
  • Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 8 October 2020 16: 02
    0
    This sale of the S-400 will backfire on Russia more than once. You cannot trust a Turk.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Local from the Volga
    Local from the Volga 8 October 2020 16: 35
    0
    idiot! and not Fyodor Mikhailovich ...
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 8 October 2020 17: 22
    -1
    Not any conspiracies. Opening the flight radar towards the Mediterranean is not realistic for the Turks to shoot. And there are holes over the Black Sea. You can look at our air traffic what will change .. They will shoot from October 13 to 16 from the Sinop area. Sinop is a painfully familiar name. hi
    1. MKPU-115
      MKPU-115 8 October 2020 18: 20
      +1
      Quote: tralflot1832
      Sinop is a painfully familiar name.

      Yes, under the command of Pavel Stepanovich, the Turkish squadron was drowned, this is a common thing, the Turks have always raked the Russians and will rake them more than once if they start to forget the story.
  • Old26
    Old26 8 October 2020 18: 45
    +2
    The unique potential of the 9M96E2 ultra-long-range missiles at the disposal of the Turkish side

    "Ostap suffered." Author, since when did 9M96E2 missiles become ultra-long-range missiles?

    Quote: swzero
    and from what it will be enough? Our population is accustomed to resting in Turkey and Egypt, driving foreign cars and buying other imported goods. If you can still understand the situation with imported goods - there are often no people of our own (phones, computers, etc.), then foreign tourism is a scourge of the economy. In 2019, there were 48kk trips abroad. Let the average budget of $ 500-600 be $ 25-30kk. A huge amount - the cost of several aircraft carriers. And the personalities there are not a separate bunch but just a crowd.

    Why, you ask, people are resting in Turkey and Egypt, and not at home. And often our "unobtrusive service" is to blame for this. If you pay $ 500 for a ticket, you know what you will get for it. I faced this myself in 2011. It turned out to be more expensive for the three of us to relax on the Black Sea coast than in Turkey, taking into account the round trip plus a trip from Stavropol to Rostov and back (the plane was leaving Rostov).

    Quote: swzero
    It's just that interesting people want to eat the candy and not sit on the bolt. Here either trips abroad and imported clothes or a normal army / defense industry / science / education / medicine, etc. Like to ride / consume? There is no need to whine then. I want an army / defense industry / science / education / medicine, etc. - there is nothing to travel / consume.

    My trip was paid not by the state budget, but by myself from my own feed. Do not confuse "your own wool and the state" (c). And nobody whines. For education and everything that you wrote, we all pay taxes.

    Quote: swzero
    Updated data in 18, overseas tourists spent $ 34,5 billion.
    In 19, the growth in the number of trips is 8%, the amount is about 37 kk bucks. For example, the entire budget of the Ministry of Defense in 2019 is 46 kk bucks. The budget for science, education and health care for 10kk bucks approximately.

    AND? It is necessary to trade not only resources, but to raise the economy. Then there will be a bigger budget for the army. So the questions are not for those who are resting, but for our government. Who wants to be good and, in the eyes of the West, restrains the money supply and does not print money, and advocates for the development of everything, without helping at all

    Quote: ximkim
    These S-400s supplied to Turkey will not give rest and sleep to the VO commentators. For the enemy is nearby ..

    That's for sure. But when the question arose about the sale of this export version of the complex to Turkey, almost the same people squeaked with enthusiasm that no one was buying the US-made Patriot, and that there were countries of the world for our S-300 / S-400. Turkey has now become almost an enemy because of its support for Azerbaijan. What about the queue? In the future, only one country is Iran. If we sell to the same Saud, they will say sold to the enemy laughing

    Quote: svoit
    So it is written in the article that the purpose of the disassembly is to find opposition to it, and not copy

    In order to find means of counteraction, it is necessary to study the complex, incl. and disassembling its individual elements in order to copy it later. Anti-aircraft complexes have been counteracted for a long time. This includes electronic warfare, booby-trap missiles, and anti-radar missiles. The development of countermeasures has been going on almost since the 60s of the last century. Parts (fragments) of the S-300 complex were purchased from us through third countries by the Americans back in the 90s. Countries that have S-300s in service (countries of the former Air Force) have long allowed American specialists to these complexes
  • Victorm
    Victorm 8 October 2020 20: 19
    -1
    Quote: Captain Pushkin
    Quote: Cyril G ...
    Still, the loin comes out on the basis of the package of technical documentation provided by the Torch ...

    The missile guidance system is Korean, at the final stage, an active radar, i.e. homing. The complex turns out to be multi-channel, "fire and forget".
    This is something that many of our complexes are sorely lacking.
    The principle fired-forgot a little into the wrong steppe, until the rocket starts to go at the expense of ARGSN one channel is busy, that is, there is no way to "forget" her dear yes
  • Khodanov
    Khodanov 8 October 2020 20: 42
    0
    We need to sell something for foreign currency, so ours get out as best they can. And maybe we are not so much now.
  • polk26l
    polk26l 8 October 2020 22: 09
    0
    The sale of modern, cutting-edge and promising weapons and ammunition, as well as technologies, at all times was considered a betrayal of the interests of the Motherland and causing irreparable damage to the state !!! No financial gain is an excuse for those people who use their official position to strengthen the enemies of the state, in this way! The case of the sale of the S-400 to Turkey, a NATO country, is one of them !!! Conclusions should be made by the people !!! Because there is no one else !!!
  • kava61
    kava61 8 October 2020 23: 46
    -3
    Quote: mark1
    Quote: Dalny V
    Nothing personal, just business.

    Yes, if it were just a business, it is still difficult, but it is possible to understand, but in this case the decision is political and I, at least, cannot understand it.

    Therefore, you are not the president of the country or even the minister of defense, let alone the post of chief of intelligence.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 9 October 2020 01: 09
    0
    Quote: Silvestr
    Quote: Stas157
    Why is the sale of military-technical secrets privately called treason, and the same sale, but at the state level, is considered a victory?

    Because you cannot compete with the state. And our state is "ON"

    Or maybe not? Maybe it just doesn't matter at what level - state or private - the sale of modern weapons and other high-tech products takes place, or maybe just apply the law on state secrets regardless of the official position of the characters who violate it? sad
  • ximkim
    ximkim 9 October 2020 04: 20
    0
    Quote: kava61
    What losses, you can compare how many NATO troops were killed there and how many of ours. Enough Volodya to write nonsense.

    In any military conflict there are losses: human, irreparable, irrecoverable, financial, material, etc. And to compare how much and what NATO has lost, this is how the Ministry of Defense and certain SERVICES are watching.
  • arhPavel
    arhPavel 9 October 2020 14: 49
    0
    But how is that ...
    Is it all gone again?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • p-evgeniy87
    p-evgeniy87 9 October 2020 21: 33
    0
    why should we worry about the delivered systems? we sold, the technical data satisfied the customer. but what is beyond what is desired, but alas, there is a contract for this. obviously, the technical base is different, they don't do good for the enemy. and how they want to use it - well, I'm sorry, what I wanted, I got it.
  • Gogia
    Gogia 10 October 2020 22: 05
    0
    And yet, where is the button? (adventure electronics)

    There is probably a button, and at the right time it should be pressed and turned off the Turkish illumination radars, etc. nafig!
  • olshome18
    olshome18 12 October 2020 05: 58
    -1
    Sister-400 will not shoot at brother Ivanushka. Basic encoding.
  • Vitalii21
    Vitalii21 12 October 2020 12: 17
    -1
    Stop throwing shit at the fan. Turkey is ours, completely ours. Erdogan does not go to the toilet without Putin's permission. And now the question is why he climbed into Azerbaijan, Libya, Syria? The answer is very simple!