Military Review

The choice of weapons in the confrontation between Armenia and Azerbaijan: air defense

53

In the previous article, we considered the combat units most effective for manning the navy (navy) and air force (air force) of Armenia from the point of view of confronting Azerbaijan and Turkey in the current conflict. Let me remind you that the consideration is being conducted only from the point of view of studying the possibility of an obviously weaker adversary to resist a stronger one without reference to who is morally or legally right in a given conflict and who is to blame.


To begin with, I would like to explain where the "Armenian fleet without a sea" came from, which caused some excitement in the comments. On the one hand, the cost of creating it in the form indicated in the previous article is minimal. How much does it cost to purchase or rent a small, used civilian vessel, install a set of electronic reconnaissance equipment on it and train 10-15 combat swimmers? By the way, training of combat swimmers can be carried out on Lake Sevan.


Lake Sevan

On the other hand, if they succeed in at least one sabotage to destroy the enemy's oil and gas infrastructure, it will pay off all costs, which, as mentioned earlier, will be relatively small. And the aforementioned Greece, although it does not have access to the Black Sea, has access to it through the Black Sea straits and can assist in the acquisition / lease of a ship (under a false flag), provide it with maintenance and help in training combat swimmers. Greece and Turkey have serious contradictions, it is possible that it is possible to agree on financial support in exchange, for example, for intelligence.

Moreover, there is no need to create a "sea-less fleet", you can only imitate its creation, and these "virtual" actions will force Azerbaijan to spend significant resources on countering a potential threat: to strengthen the fleet, increase the intensity of patrolling, purchase anti-sabotage equipment and weapons, since the oil and gas sector, which is the backbone of its economy, can be very painful. The resources of any country are not unlimited, and if you can spend 1 ruble for the enemy to spend 10 rubles, then this is already a fairly good reason to think it over.

However, if “a fleet without a sea” is a rather specific thing for Armenia, then equipping the Armenian Air Force with a fleet of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) instead of the heavy S-30SM fighters they purchase could significantly increase their defenses in the context of the actual air domination of Azerbaijan and Turkey. Again, in the comments to the previous material, it is noted that the Su-30SM have already been purchased, but the UAV is not. Well, this is so, and we are just talking about the mistakes made at the stage of preparing the Armenian armed forces for the outbreak of the conflict and about how to build arms purchases in the future. Now, of course, it is too late to drink Borjomi.

As for the reason for the ferrying of combat aircraft to another country, this is perhaps the only chance to keep them intact, because if an attempt is made to use them, they will most likely be shot down: the territory of the country and the theater of military operations are too small, Armenia is too tightly sandwiched between Azerbaijan and Turkey. If the Turks constantly keep at least one early warning aircraft (AWACS) near the border with Armenia, then the Su-30SM will be spotted immediately after takeoff, and they can be attacked even before the climb.


The Boeing B737 Peace Eagle AWACS aircraft of the Turkish Air Force is capable of detecting fighter-type targets at a range of up to 370 km, i.e. it can survey the entire territory of Armenia being one and a half hundred kilometers from its state border

And how and to whom to ferry these planes is a problem for Armenia. Iran can probably be used as a transit country. Perhaps he will be able to sell them - it will be much more practical than if these combat aircraft are destroyed at the base airfield with Israeli operational-tactical ballistic missiles LORA, 300-mm multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) or UAVs.

The conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh has once again clearly demonstrated the capabilities of UAVs in modern warfare and their importance for the armed forces. In fact, we see practically unpunished shooting of the Armenian armed forces with high-precision weapons from the air. At the same time, the losses of the Azerbaijani Air Force in the UAV are clearly incomparable with the losses of the Armenian side from the strikes inflicted by the UAV. Earlier, Turkey effectively used UAVs in Turkey and Libya.

In fact, the UAVs provided Azerbaijan with air supremacy even without the complete suppression of Armenia's air defense and the destruction of its combat aircraft, which significantly increases the effectiveness of the actions of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces, therefore, it will be difficult to achieve a turning point in the course of the conflict without interfering with the operation of the UAV.

Air defense and UAVs


We can say that the problem of countering the massive use of UAVs has not yet been resolved. Sometimes they say that the use of electronic warfare (EW) can completely disrupt the control of the UAV, but this assumption can be questioned. Even if it is possible to drown out the radio channel between the UAV and the ground repeater, the possibility of jamming satellite communication channels remains in question, and it is not at all easy to drown out the global satellite positioning system. No, it is probably possible to do this, but only at a limited distance, in a limited area, and it is unlikely that it will be possible to “close” access to the global positioning system throughout the entire theater of military operations. At least so far, no one has seen dozens of UAVs that crashed as a result of the impact of electronic warfare. And the electronic warfare means themselves, an active radiation source, can be tracked and attacked by appropriate weapons. In other words, using electronic warfare as an element of an echeloned air defense system is one thing, but relying on them as a "wunderwaffe" is quite another.

The choice of weapons in the confrontation between Armenia and Azerbaijan: air defense

Destroyed UAV of Azerbaijan, Russian-made electronic warfare "Repellent" complex, owned by the Armed Forces of Armenia

When countering anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) and UAVs, other problems arise. First, the small size of the UAV, the use of elements to reduce radar signature, turboprop and piston engines with a low thermal signature significantly complicate the detection of UAVs, especially for small and ultra-small UAVs. As fully electric UAVs appear, this problem will become even more urgent.

Secondly, as the cost of anti-aircraft guided missiles (SAMs) often exceeds the cost of weapons used by UAVs, the cost of the SAMs themselves is much higher than that of UAVs. This is especially true for small and ultra-small UAVs.

For example, the cost of the Turkish UAV Bayraktar TB2 is about $ 5 million, while the cost of the Pantsir-C1 anti-aircraft missile-gun system is about $ 14 million, i.e. To meet the cost / efficiency criterion, the ratio of the destroyed Bayraktar TB2 UAVs and Pantsir-S1 air defense missile systems should be three to one. The effectiveness of less sophisticated air defense systems, such as Strela, turned out to be completely minimal - in fact, they turned into targets for UAVs.


UAV Bayraktar TB2 and ZRPK "Pantsir-C1"

Air defense of Armenia now


In the structure of Armenia's air defense there are air defense systems of all classes: relatively outdated long-range air defense systems S-300PS, more "fresh" medium-range air defense systems Buk M1-2, fairly modern short-range air defense systems "Tor-M2KM" and portable air defense systems (MANPADS) "Igla" and "Willow". There are also outdated air defense systems such as S-75, S-125, "Kub" and "Osa", ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" and ZSU-23-2. They are practically useless against UAVs, but in the right hands they can pose a significant threat to manned combat aircraft and helicopters. There is no exact information on the number of available air defense systems and their technical condition.

The question arises: why are the Tor air defense systems not used, which should be able to effectively deal with UAVs? In the M2 modification, the Tor air defense system is capable of firing on the move, which reduces the likelihood of their being hit by certain types of guided munitions.


SAM "Tor-M2KM" can be effectively used to counter UAVs

The number of Tor-M2KM air defense systems in service with the Armenian air defense is unknown, but presumably it is at least 2-4 vehicles. What's the point of hiding them? Wait for the enemy to discover their location and destroy the UAV or OTRK? Or are they kept for the "last and decisive" battle?

Of course, the complete absence of an air defense system will completely untie the enemy's hands, making it possible to use not only unmanned, but also manned aviation, the effectiveness of which in supporting ground forces is still much higher than that of a UAV. But even with the loss of the "Tor" air defense system, Armenia will have enough other air defense systems to counter the manned combat aircraft.

In general, based on the limited military budget of Armenia, one cannot say about any mistakes made when purchasing air defense systems. All available funds can be used in the current conflict with varying efficiency. Questions rather arise regarding the technical condition of the formally listed air defense systems and the professionalism of their crews.

Possible directions of development of air defense of Armenia


Currently, there are no air defense systems capable of cost-effectively countering UAVs. Perhaps, the Pantsir-SM air defense missile system equipped with specialized small-sized missiles designed to destroy UAVs will be able to get as close as possible to solving the problem of "cheap" destruction of UAVs. It should also be borne in mind that the Pantsir-S air defense missile system has performed quite well in Libya. Despite the losses incurred, it is believed that they accounted for 28 downed Turkish UAVs.

Previously, we considered the use of the Pantsir-SM air defense missile system in the context of solving the problem if possible to break through the air defense by exceeding its capabilities to intercept targetsand ensuring the operation of the air defense missile system for low-flying targets without the involvement of the Air Force aviation.


ZRPK "Pantsir-SM" and intended for it short-range missiles "Nail", placed by 4 missiles in one standard transport and launch container (TPK)

An important point is the potential for equipping the Pantsir-SM air defense missile system with 30-mm shells with remote detonation. If this opportunity is realized, the effectiveness of the defeat of small-sized UAVs will increase significantly, and the cost of their destruction will decrease by an order of magnitude. Currently, two 30-mm 2A38 cannons installed on the Pantsir series air defense missile systems are most often useless: neither small UAVs nor guided munitions can be hit by them.


Almost all air targets in Syria are destroyed by the Pantsir-C1 air defense missile system with missiles

If the 30-mm shells with remote detonation will not be integrated into the ammunition load of the Pantsir-SM air defense missile system, then a purely rocket modification of the Pantsir-SM air defense system may become a more interesting acquisition option, which is also presumably being developed and the maximum ammunition load of which can be up to 96 missiles "Nail".


The concept of modification of the Pantsir-SM air defense system, equipped only with missile weapons

ZRPK / SAM "Pantsir-SM" can form the basis of the air defense of the armed forces of Armenia. Considering the importance of the problem being solved, they can be purchased in the amount of several tens of units within 5-10 years. At the same time, the purchase amount will be about $ 300-500 million.

The most effective weapon against small and ultra-small UAVs can be laser air defense systems - It is not for nothing that the United States is actively working on the installation of laser weapons on the Stryker armored personnel carrier specifically to counter the UAV.


BTR "Stryker MEHEL 2.0", designed to combat small-sized UAVs

Unfortunately, judging by the data of the open press, Russia lags behind in the creation of tactical lasers. At the same time, at the Army-2020 exhibition, a mobile laser complex to combat UAVs "Rat" was presented, capable, according to the developers, of electronic suppression of communication channels and physical destruction of UAVs with laser weapons.


Mobile laser complex to combat UAVs "Rat"

I repeat, potentially laser weapons will be extremely effective against UAVs, but it is too early to speak specifically about the effectiveness of the Rat complex. It can be assumed that such systems will show maximum efficiency in conjunction with the same Pantsir-SM air defense missile systems or Tor-M2KM air defense missile systems.

The second main air defense system in Armenia will remain MANPADS, which have the highest possible survivability of all air defense systems. MANPADS will make it possible to limit the combat effectiveness of enemy manned aircraft in the event that all air defense systems are destroyed. To increase their efficiency, a developed network of observers, equipped with communication facilities, capable of acoustic and visual detection of UAVs and manned aircraft and the transmission of their coordinates and direction of movement is required in order to ensure their attack by MANPADS from the most effective distance and direction.

There is a possibility that existing MANPADS with thermal guidance can become practically useless as aircraft and helicopters are equipped with laser self-defense means... However, such means are unlikely to be installed on small and ultra-small UAVs, and the high cost of introducing laser self-defense weapons will not allow Azerbaijan and Turkey to install them on all aircraft in the coming decades. In the future, it is possible that the development of MANPADS will follow the path of creating a laser-guided missile defense system - previously such complexes have already been developed.


British MANPADS Starstreak HVM with guidance along the "laser trail" will have much less vulnerability to laser weapons than MANPADS with thermal guidance

All chances for the development of MANPADS of this type have the Russian enterprises KBP JSC, NPK KBM JSC and KBTM named after A. E. Nudelman ", with experience in the development of both air defense systems and weapons guided by the" laser path ". Perhaps it will be some kind of simplified version of the Sosna air defense system.


Transportable SAM "Sosna-RA". Refusal of artillery weapons will allow to reduce its dimensions, turning it into a portable air defense system

As for the long and medium-range air defense systems, their purchase should be carried out only after the Armenian air defense is equipped with a sufficient number of Pantsir-SM air defense missile systems and MANPADS. Complexes of the S-400 type have completely redundant characteristics for the Armed Forces of Armenia. A more interesting option is the S-350 Vityaz medium-range air defense missile system, equipped with active radar seeker missiles (ARLGSN) and small-size infrared seeker missiles (IR seeker).


ZRK C-350 "Vityaz"

If the military budget of Armenia will allow for their purchase, then in minimal quantities. Their importance can significantly increase in the case of the purchase by Turkey or Azerbaijan of modern fifth-generation combat aircraft, made using the technology of reducing visibility and equipped with radar stations (radar) with an active phased antenna array (AFAR). The presence of the S-350 "Vityaz" air defense system of a radar with an AFAR and an air defense missile system with an ARLGSN will allow it to effectively counteract fifth-generation aircraft. It is unlikely that Turkey will have many of them, let alone Azerbaijan.

Another area should be the maximum modernization of all available air defense systems using modern element base. The experience of other countries shows that even the "ancient" air defense systems of the S-75 and S-125 type can be extremely dangerous for the enemy, provided that they are qualitatively modernized.


Deep modernization of the Soviet S-125 air defense system of the Belarusian company Alevkurp OJSC S-125-2BM Pechora-2BM (left) and the Belarusian company Tetraedr Unitary Enterprise S-125-2TM Pechora-2TM (right). By the way, the modification of the S-125-2TM "Pechora-2TM" is in service with Azerbaijan

conclusions


All of the above measures can largely neutralize the superiority of Azerbaijan and Turkey in aviation weapons. Under existing conditions, it is advisable to use the existing Tor-M2KM air defense systems already now to inflict maximum damage on enemy UAVs and reduce their impact on the armed forces. Even in the event of the loss of the Tor-M2KM air defense system, Armenia will have enough air defense missile systems to counter manned aviation, but it is necessary to do something with the UAV now. MANPADS will remain the most "tenacious" air defense weapons.

In the future, the basis of Armenia's air defense system can be the Pantsir-SM air defense missile system (depending on whether the missile-cannon or purely missile modification will be purchased), possibly in combination with the Tor family air defense system, if they show themselves well according to the results real application.

The article practically does not touch upon the use of electronic warfare systems, since there is no reliable data on the effectiveness of this type of weapons in practice, perhaps we will return to this issue in other materials.

Next, we will look at how you can counter the UAV and enemy aircraft without air defense, and also consider the optimal armament of the ground forces in the confrontation between Armenia and Azerbaijan.
Author:
Photos used:
nevskii-bastion.ru, topwar.ru
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The choice of weapons in the confrontation between Armenia and Azerbaijan: aviation and navy
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  1. Graz
    Graz 7 October 2020 05: 47
    -8
    airfields and UAV bases must be destroyed by Armenia, with the help of the Tochka U and Iskander complexes, Russia must help Armenia in providing such information, Tanks on enemy airfields are the best air defense, as our military leaders said in WWII, well, in relation to the realities of this conflict
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 7 October 2020 08: 52
      +7
      It's easy to write. How many there flew to Shayrat and he earned for the evening. The CU Point is not much more. Plus, a full-fledged runway is not needed for a UAV - it takes off and lands perfectly from taxiing.

      Moreover, at least some efficiency will be on the An-2 parking lots converted into targets for the Armenian air defense / possibly repeaters. Well, if God gives, then they will cover the nest.

      The second wave will be about useless. This is the commander for 4 active UAVs. Today he is here, tomorrow for 100 km, after tomorrow somewhere else. Well, the UAV can take off from a rural airfield or a piece of flat road.




      And here is a set for 6 UAVs with controls.
    2. andrew42
      andrew42 7 November 2020 14: 30
      0
      As the saying goes, "will not take off." This is a sparrow cannon. To paraphrase Vysotsky (about the mountains): Better than drones can only be drones, the swarm of which has not yet flown. :)) Looking for cheap "anti-drones" cover.
  2. riwas
    riwas 7 October 2020 06: 02
    +3
    "A small-sized missile for an anti-aircraft missile system (SAM) Tor-M2" is being created in Russia to combat tactical unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). This was announced by the commander-in-chief of the Ground Forces, Army General Oleg Salyukov. "
    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/9597331
  3. zyablik.olga
    zyablik.olga 7 October 2020 06: 11
    +6
    In places "far-fetched" and there is frankly inaccurate information. negative
    In the structure of Armenia's air defense there are air defense systems of all classes: relatively outdated long-range air defense systems S-300PS, more "fresh" medium-range air defense systems Buk M1-2, fairly modern short-range air defense systems "Tor-M2KM" and portable air defense systems (MANPADS) "Igla" and "Willow". There are also outdated air defense systems such as S-75, S-125, "Kub" and "Osa", ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" and ZSU-23-2.
    ... The main medium-range air defense systems in Armenia are the S-300PT. The obsolete S-75s were decommissioned about 5 years ago.
  4. Slon1978
    Slon1978 7 October 2020 06: 54
    +5
    Pantsir-SM has not even entered the Russian army yet, it is clearly premature to talk about its deliveries to third countries, as well as how "castrated" its export version will be. In addition, the small-sized Gvozd missiles are clearly not for medium-altitude UAVs. This is a consumable for work on low-altitude mini-drones, including homemade ones. The problem of MANPADS is the operator's lack of awareness. When the UAV flies at an altitude of up to 5,000 meters and can be visually visible to the operator, the UAV can be pointed to the Verba and shot down. But when the UAV operates at night or from under the clouds, and this is what happens in the main, the operator does not see it and cannot aim the rocket. At the same time, the UAV can even hear high in the night sky (if there is silence on the battlefield), but this will not help. The MANPADS missile seeker has a very narrow viewing / capture angle and it is pointless to "drive the sting" across the night sky in the hope of detecting the UAV by accident using the missile seeker, in addition, the MANPADS missile seeker is pre-cooled and has a small time window for target acquisition. Why are Buk and Thor not used? They can really reach the UAV in height and range, but they must be withdrawn to the territory of the NKR - close to the contact line. They will have to work constantly on radiation - search, because Armenia does not have support from the AWACS aircraft and ambush actions by Torami and beeches are excluded. If they work constantly on radiation, then they will easily be shot by F-16 anti-radar missiles from a safe distance, even without entering the NKR airspace. Torah and Buki could be covered from fighters with the S-300, but this is a new stage of the conflict - the closure of the airspace over Azerbaijan and the direct intervention of Armenia, since the NKR does not have the S-300 and the shooting will be conducted from the territory of Armenia, and it will be necessary to shoot down F-16 deep over the territory of Azerbaijan. It is also dangerous because you can shoot down a false passenger target. It looks optimal to work with the Su-30SM medium-range air-to-air missiles from the territory of Armenia or shallowly over the territory of NKR. Su-30SM will be able to independently search for drones and shoot them down with the help of Bars-M, they can also arrange a duel with the F-16, if they launch them. Why the Su-30SM are not used is unclear - there are no necessary missiles? no pilots? no permission from Russia?
  5. Ilya_Nsk
    Ilya_Nsk 7 October 2020 06: 59
    0
    I think that in order to combat small-sized UAVs, light, but automatic equipment is needed. Something like a ZSU-23-2, but with a caliber of 7.62 on a platform with a small radar, drives and a computer. Mounting in the back of a pickup truck, dist. control. When there is one for each platoon, the issue can be considered resolved. The trouble is that small UAVs are poorly visible on the radar. By the way, the "Pantsirei" cannons are useless, there is a video where 4 installations could not shoot down a 1.5-meter UAV with a propeller thrust - they were shot down by a rocket. Let large UAVs shoot down "shells" / "tori", etc.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 7 October 2020 08: 04
      +3
      Quote: Ilya_Nsk
      to combat small-sized UAVs, lightweight but automatic equipment is needed. Something like a ZSU-23-2, but with a 7.62 caliber on a platform with a small radar, drives and

      If we talk about something like that, then to fight not with UAVs, but with ammunition used with UAVs! The "Strela-10" short-range air defense system ... and even the "Wasp" were shot from a UAV from a distance of several kilometers ... And you want to send machine guns against the strikers! (And machine guns will do if you shoot down small reconnaissance drones of the "company and battalion" link ... but only!) But on the missile and cannon "Armor" 30-mm machine guns should be replaced with a kind of KAZ, representing a multi-barreled machine gun installation, better with a caliber 12,7 , 25 mm ... or the installation of automatic grenade launchers of 30-XNUMX mm caliber with its own radar (at least based on the AR.GSN ...) is worth considering ...
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 7 October 2020 08: 09
        +1
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        25-30 mm with its own radar (at least based on the AR.GSN ...) is worth considering ...

        It is already heavy, and you still want to add a radar.
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 7 October 2020 09: 15
          +1
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          It is already heavy, and you still want to add a radar.

          For me, your phrase is not very clear ... Or maybe you misunderstand something? request
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 7 October 2020 09: 27
            +1
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            Your phrase is not very clear to me ..

            AGS Flame weighs half a kilo. Drag ...
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 7 October 2020 15: 55
              0
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              AGS Flame weighs half a kilo. Drag along.

              Why carry it around? belay And do shikoko weigh 30mm Pantsir anti-aircraft guns? what
            2. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 7 October 2020 15: 58
              0
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              AGS Flame weighs half a kilo. Drag along.

              Why carry it around? belay And do shikoko weigh 30mm Pantsir anti-aircraft guns? what
    2. Grits
      Grits 7 October 2020 09: 40
      +2
      Quote: Ilya_Nsk
      By the way, the "Pantsirei" cannons are useless, there is a video where 4 installations could not shoot down a 1.5-meter UAV with a propeller thrust - they were shot down by a rocket.

      You contradict yourself. That is, if the Carapace is from 30. mm. could not shoot down the gun, then the ZSU with 23 mm. or even more so 7,62 will definitely knock down?
      The Turkish "tractors" destroyed the "wasps" precisely because the height of their action was greater than the launch range of the "Wasp" missile. Cannon armament, even more so, will not reach 8 thousand.
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 7 October 2020 10: 07
        -1
        Quote: Gritsa
        Cannon armament, even more so, will not reach 8 thousand.

        Well, depending on what. This one will get it.

  6. sen
    sen 7 October 2020 07: 47
    +2
    Conventional air defense is not enough to combat drone UAVs. It is necessary to add universal (such as ADATS) or anti-aircraft missiles to the Terminator's ammunition load in addition to the ATGM. And the equipment - it is universal: a digital television camera, a thermal imaging device and a laser - are needed both for hitting ground and air targets.
    1. Graz
      Graz 7 October 2020 09: 32
      +2
      it is easier to make a guidance radar, and a helicopter or propeller-driven light aircraft as an interceptor with the same machine guns or cannons
  7. Sergey Valov
    Sergey Valov 7 October 2020 08: 22
    0
    The main disadvantage of the drone is the absence of a pilot, that is, the need to control it by radio. This shortcoming should be used in the first place. It is necessary to interfere with the radio control signal, and then the drone becomes an expensive uncontrollable toy. Alternatively, you can crush the return signal from the drone to the operator. It is always easier to put obstacles than to defend against them. And aerobatics is to take over control and use the drone for your own purposes. Why is it not used by Armenians - who knows. Russia may have such a technique, but is it worth sharing it with Armenia? There are factors both for and against.
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 7 October 2020 09: 32
      +1
      Quote: Sergey Valov
      Why is it not used by Armenians - who knows.
      everyone knows, except you, I guess. For even the text under discussion contains a photograph of the destroyed Armenian electronic warfare complex.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 7 October 2020 12: 44
      +9
      "The main disadvantage of a drone is the lack of a pilot" ///
      ----
      This is a pearl! good
      It is usually considered that the absence of a pilot is the main advantage. smile
      1. Sergey Valov
        Sergey Valov 7 October 2020 15: 49
        -2
        The absence of a pilot forces to make the drone radio-controlled, i.e. vulnerable to interference, the functionality of the device is sharply reduced, because no camera can replace human eyes, the flight range is reduced, due to the need to maintain a reliable radio control signal. I repeat - it is easier to put radio interference and completely disrupt the use of the drone than to defend against these interference. Why this does not happen in Karabakh I do not know.
        "It is generally believed that the absence of a pilot is the main advantage." - this is not so, it is always necessary to consider specific conditions. It is not just that there are parallel ICBMs (in principle, also a drone) and strategic manned bombers / missile carriers.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 7 October 2020 17: 25
          +6
          "for no camera can replace human eyes" ////
          ----
          Another pearl! good
          Human eyes are a very weak instrument.
          Cameras have long surpassed human eyes in sensitivity by hundreds of times.
          Not only the human eye, but the eagle's eye, being exactly the same size.
          Not to mention, the cameras see at night as during the day.
          Cameras not only see, but when connected to a computer, instantly mark
          all suspicious objects on the screen, classifying them according to their importance.
          1. Sergey Valov
            Sergey Valov 7 October 2020 19: 10
            -3
            Do you dare to drive a car on a camera? And to get on a passenger plane where there is no glazing of the cockpit? Who has more information about the surrounding area - the drone operator or the pilot? Even in the metro, they do not risk giving up drivers, although the technical capability has long been there.
  8. cormorant
    cormorant 7 October 2020 08: 32
    +2
    No, it is probably possible to do this, but only at a limited distance, in a limited area, and it is unlikely that it will be possible to “close” access to the global positioning system throughout the entire theater of military operations. At least so far, no one has seen dozens of UAVs that crashed as a result of the impact of electronic warfare.
    You can close access to GPS for one or two times. These signals are not only successfully jammed, but displaced. And the size of the site depends on the amount of equipment, which is generally not complicated. The problem is that it had to be thought about before the conflict. Moreover, they knew in Armenia how the Azerbaijani army was equipped.
  9. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 7 October 2020 09: 03
    +3
    ... How much does it cost to purchase or rent a small, used civilian vessel, install a set of electronic reconnaissance equipment on it and train 10-15 combat swimmers? By the way, training of combat swimmers can be carried out on Lake Sevan.
    Very expensive . Consider for yourself - the purchase of a vessel, the acquisition of RTR equipment for decompression, storage and descent of underwater vehicles for movement underwater swimmers), the cost of repairing the vessel and its additional equipment, the cost of maintenance and fuel and lubricants, the cost of the base (and where?), Training of a military crew (and more than one, because people are not automatic), the cost of building a base for swimmers with its equipment and maintenance, the cost of hiring instructors, equipment, weapons, underwater movement facilities (these are at least in a double set - for the base and operations) for fighters, training of combat swimmers (believe me, it is very expensive and quite long), maintenance of base personnel - doctors, technicians, etc. , payment for the organization of secret training of fighters on the seas (a lake is a lake, and a sea is a sea and a fighter before an operation must understand from his own experience where he will act). All this is aggravated by the "small-scale" program and the difficulties with keeping secret the destination of the purchased and converted vessel in a foreign port. Author, cool off with the Armenian fleet. If Armenians have money, then for a one-time action it is easier to vent the issue of hiring PMCs.
  10. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 7 October 2020 09: 07
    +4
    All chances for the development of MANPADS of this type are in the Russian enterprises of JSC KBP, JSC NPK KBM and JSC KBTM im. A. E. Nudelman ", with experience in the development of both air defense systems and weapons guided by the" laser path ". Perhaps it will be some kind of simplified version of the Sosny air defense system Back in the days of the USSR, prototypes of MANPADS with laser guidance were created ... It is possible that the obsolete MANPADS of the Strela-3, Igla-1, Igla types can be replaced with a laser one ... radio control ... But, nevertheless, this is an additional anti-UAV means, and not the main one ...
    Now it is worth paying more attention to the concept of using UAV-interceptor drones ...
    As for the modernization of the "old" air defense systems, then "the grandmother said in two"! You can, for example, try to adapt the 9M338K ammunition for the Wasp-AKM, but you also need a new radar with AFAR! This is where the question arises: will the game be worth the candle?
    Regarding the effectiveness of electronic warfare ... I have always treated them somewhat skeptically! Like, let them be, but should not be placed in the "red corner"! And precisely because of the consideration that electronic warfare equipment is mainly radio-emitting; and, therefore, in turn, can be detected and destroyed by ammunition directed at radio emission! And, often, there is uncertainty: whether radio interference will work or not ... That is why I have always held the opinion that even if there will be jamming means of electronic warfare, but in conjunction with "active" means of destruction!
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 7 October 2020 10: 33
      +2
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Regarding the effectiveness of electronic warfare equipment ... I have always treated them somewhat skeptically!

      REP (Electronic Suppression) can be effectively used against the radar, this makes it possible to fly closer unnoticed. Practically useless against communication channels. You can drown out an insignificant area, but everything, both the enemy and your own, is jammed, in case of a sudden offensive it can be useful when your own know what to do, and the enemy cannot be given the opportunity to coordinate. It is extremely effective against mines with radio control, the section is narrow, this is the beginning and end of the column plus 50-100 meters along the edges of the road. Against civilian drones, REP is effective, they work at standard frequencies 2 most common +5 less. Military UAVs are nearly impossible to suppress. They operate at different frequencies, change them dynamically, channels are duplicated, networks of repeaters are made, they choose non-standard directions of impact, etc.
      That's all the layouts. REP is a necessary and useful thing, but as an integral part of the system and mainly offensive. Electronic warfare is a much broader concept, turning off your cell phone before going to a position is also part of electronic warfare. At least somewhere my VUS 121000 came in handy.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 7 October 2020 16: 03
        +2
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        REP is a necessary and useful thing, but as an integral part of the system

        Duc, and I'm talking about it ...!
  11. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 7 October 2020 09: 36
    0
    Another spherical horse.
    Although, I agree with the author about unused "tori". The "Wasps" showed their helplessness, and something needs to be done with the "Bayraktars". And "Thor" would be just right.
    1. svoit
      svoit 8 October 2020 16: 00
      0
      Wasn't there a vidos with the destruction of Thor yet?
  12. da Vinci
    da Vinci 7 October 2020 09: 52
    +1
    There is no one solution to this problem, it is necessary to solve it in a comprehensive manner: new radars that can find uavs in the near (up to 10-20 km) and aim at them strike systems, electronic warfare systems, the destruction of the command center, the use of air defense systems (including laser ), creation of drones-fighters or light aircraft-fighters of drones.
  13. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 7 October 2020 10: 55
    +2
    All VOs have just laughed at the "combat Armenian swimmers" - and here is a new writings from this Mitrofanushka. Tireless.
  14. Old26
    Old26 7 October 2020 11: 01
    +2
    Quote: Graz
    airfields and UAV bases must be destroyed by Armenia, with the help of the Tochka U and Iskander complexes, Russia must help Armenia in providing such information, Tanks on enemy airfields are the best air defense, as our military leaders said in WWII, well, in relation to the realities of this conflict

    Destroying airfields with conventional warheads of these missiles is not a trivial task. If the Azerbaijani Air Force has a well-developed infrastructure and efficient BAO, then it is not very difficult to put in order the airfield after such a strike. Especially considering that the Tochka's range does not cover all the territories of Azerbaijan, then one can only rely on the Iskander. And they have 4 launchers. 8 rockets. Continuously firing, even if there were unlimited ammunition, is impossible a priori. And do not forget that the same Azerbaijan has similar OTRK. And everything will depend on the skill of the calculations. A retaliatory strike can damage the launchers, especially since they are not armored. Therefore, the use of OTRK by Armenia (namely, Armenia) will lead to a retaliatory strike against critical infrastructure. And you should not consider the Azerbaijanis so stupid that they will strike at the nuclear power plant. They understand this perfectly.
    The provision of intelligence information to Armenia by Russia is exactly the intervention that Armenia is counting on ...

    Quote: donavi49
    How many there flew to Shayrat and he earned for the evening. The Warhead Point has not much more.

    EMNIP flew in something about 60 pieces, I don't remember exactly, but it seems 58. The "Tochka" warhead has about 400 kg, of which explosives are about 150 kg, the rest is fragments. So, if the "Tochka" is suitable, then it is mainly for firing at positions, because both in the high-explosive version and in the cluster version it has 14-16 thousand fragments each. From what BG were the "axes" that shot at Shayrat - to be honest, I don't know
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 7 October 2020 12: 48
      +2
      For the evening in Shayrat, one page has earned.
      And the airfield was fully operational in two weeks.
      But there, the CD was definitely hit by bunkers with planes, and a fuel and lubricants warehouse, and radars,
      and tanker vehicles.
  15. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 7 October 2020 14: 55
    0
    Quote: Graz
    Russia should help Armenia in providing such information


    Armenia should.
    To hand over the killers of the Russian soldier.
    They came to us, to Russia, not as tourists, to see Red Square, to go to Bolshoi.
    They came for the money.
    And meanly they killed the Russian guy:
    source "KP".

    "In Moscow they said goodbye to the commandos killed in a mass brawl with the Armenians"

    Forgot about it?

    And we remember.
    We remember how your court, on the territory of Russia, condemned the villain who killed his family on the territory of Armenia.

    Why don't you betray your scoundrel killer?

    https://yandex.ru/turbo/kp.ru/s/daily/26986/4046235/

    https://yandex.ru/turbo/tsargrad.tv/s/articles/pochemu-armenija-dolzhna-vydat-rossii-ubijcu-russkogo-specnazovca_202426
  16. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 7 October 2020 14: 55
    0
    Quote: Graz
    Russia should help Armenia in providing such information


    Armenia should.
    To hand over the killers of the Russian soldier.
    They came to us, to Russia, not as tourists, to see Red Square, to go to Bolshoi.
    They came for the money.
    And meanly they killed the Russian guy:
    source "KP".

    "In Moscow they said goodbye to the commandos killed in a mass brawl with the Armenians"

    Forgot about it?

    And we remember.
    We remember how your court, on the territory of Russia, condemned the villain who killed his family on the territory of Armenia.

    Why don't you betray your scoundrel killer?

    https://yandex.ru/turbo/kp.ru/s/daily/26986/4046235/

    https://yandex.ru/turbo/tsargrad.tv/s/articles/pochemu-armenija-dolzhna-vydat-rossii-ubijcu-russkogo-specnazovca_202426
  17. Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst 7 October 2020 16: 27
    0
    If you dance from the stove, then the very status of the conflict is incomprehensible: no one declared war; the status of Karabakh is incomprehensible, some own it but do not recognize it, others have lost it but want to return it; both sides are afraid to cross the official border and use the entire arsenal of weapons both for military purposes and for the economy. They are fighting as if from under a stick someone makes them ... And according to the article, the Armenian army (or whatever is fighting there) does not have a military air defense system. And this is not only the listed arsenal of disparate semi-ready weapons, but also the airspace reconnaissance and control system, aircraft training, tactics of use and interaction. All these UAVs and MANPADS are terrorists' weapons. How much has ISIS achieved in Syria against Khmeimim's air defense ?! Su-30SM were purchased (aircraft capable of flying to Moscow), and organizing VNOS at least at the level of the Second World War is not prestigious! For normal air defense "Bayraktar" as a subsonic aerodynamic low or medium-altitude target does not represent anything invincible. In Yugoslavia, even the F-117 was filled up from the C-125! In short, if there is a WAR with a capital letter, then we will evaluate the air defense.
  18. Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst 7 October 2020 16: 28
    0
    If you dance from the stove, then the very status of the conflict is incomprehensible: no one declared war; the status of Karabakh is incomprehensible, some own it but do not recognize it, others have lost it but want to return it; both sides are afraid to cross the official border and use the entire arsenal of weapons both for military purposes and for the economy. They are fighting as if from under a stick someone makes them ... And according to the article, the Armenian army (or whatever is fighting there) does not have a military air defense system. And this is not only the listed arsenal of disparate semi-ready weapons, but also the airspace reconnaissance and control system, aircraft training, tactics of use and interaction. All these UAVs and MANPADS are terrorists' weapons. How much has ISIS achieved in Syria against Khmeimim's air defense ?! Su-30SM were purchased (aircraft capable of flying to Moscow), and organizing VNOS at least at the level of the Second World War is not prestigious! For normal air defense "Bayraktar" as a subsonic aerodynamic low or medium-altitude target does not represent anything invincible. In Yugoslavia, even the F-117 was filled up from the C-125! In short, if there is a WAR with a capital letter, then we will evaluate the air defense.
  19. Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst 7 October 2020 16: 28
    0
    If you dance from the stove, then the very status of the conflict is incomprehensible: no one declared war; the status of Karabakh is incomprehensible, some own it but do not recognize it, others have lost it but want to return it; both sides are afraid to cross the official border and use the entire arsenal of weapons both for military purposes and for the economy. They are fighting as if from under a stick someone makes them ... And according to the article, the Armenian army (or whatever is fighting there) does not have a military air defense system. And this is not only the listed arsenal of disparate semi-ready weapons, but also the airspace reconnaissance and control system, aircraft training, tactics of use and interaction. All these UAVs and MANPADS are terrorists' weapons. How much has ISIS achieved in Syria against Khmeimim's air defense ?! Su-30SM were purchased (aircraft capable of flying to Moscow), and organizing VNOS at least at the level of the Second World War is not prestigious! For normal air defense "Bayraktar" as a subsonic aerodynamic low or medium-altitude target does not represent anything invincible. In Yugoslavia, even the F-117 was filled up from the C-125! In short, if there is a WAR with a capital letter, then we will evaluate the air defense.
  20. Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst 7 October 2020 16: 30
    0
    If you dance from the stove, then the very status of the conflict is incomprehensible: no one declared war; the status of Karabakh is incomprehensible, some own it but do not recognize it, others have lost it but want to return it; both sides are afraid to cross the official border and use the entire arsenal of weapons both for military purposes and for the economy. They are fighting as if from under a stick someone makes them ... And according to the article, the Armenian army (or whatever is fighting there) does not have a military air defense system. And this is not only the listed arsenal of disparate semi-ready weapons, but also the airspace reconnaissance and control system, aircraft training, tactics of use and interaction. All these UAVs and MANPADS are terrorists' weapons. How much has ISIS achieved in Syria against Khmeimim's air defense ?! Su-30SM were purchased (aircraft capable of flying to Moscow), and organizing VNOS at least at the level of the Second World War is not prestigious! For normal air defense "Bayraktar" as a subsonic aerodynamic low or medium-altitude target does not represent anything invincible. In Yugoslavia, even the F-117 was filled up from the C-125! In short, if there is a WAR with a capital letter, then we will evaluate the air defense.
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  29. 547807955
    547807955 7 October 2020 17: 52
    0
    Here, the NPO wages war on the defensive, on its territory. It was necessary to establish surveillance-reconnaissance at the border, by all means of observation, with the involvement and training of the border population. There is not much choice of direction for the offensive, everything had to be mined and shot. First of all, Turkey's intervention should have been taken into account. Shooting from the air, in the 21st century, is a direct defeat, both physical and moral (demoralizing).
  30. 547807955
    547807955 7 October 2020 17: 52
    +1
    Here, the NPO wages war on the defensive, on its territory. It was necessary to establish surveillance-reconnaissance at the border, by all means of observation, with the involvement and training of the border population. There is not much choice of direction for the offensive, everything had to be mined and shot. First of all, Turkey's intervention should have been taken into account. Shooting from the air, in the 21st century, is a direct defeat, both physical and moral (demoralizing).
  31. Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 7 October 2020 18: 08
    0
    The author is still a theoretician. Azerbaijan has at least 8 tori and Armenia? . And what about further reasoning?
    1. Shopping Mall
      8 October 2020 08: 06
      0
      Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
      The author is still a theoretician. Azerbaijan has at least 8 tori and Armenia? . And what about further reasoning?


      So what? Torahs will shoot at Torahs? What is the point of comparing the ratio of air defense systems without reference to enemy aircraft? If Armenia and NKR do not use aviation, then even if Azerbaijan has 80 Torahs, they will not affect the hostilities in any way.
  32. meandr51
    meandr51 7 October 2020 18: 37
    -1
    Why not make a patrolling UAV fighter with a simple Kalashnikov assault rifle? By the way, there is already such a prototype. There is a video of its application on the net. Guidance based on data from a ground optical scanner or radar.
  33. meandr51
    meandr51 7 October 2020 18: 37
    -1
    Why not make a patrolling UAV fighter with a simple Kalashnikov assault rifle? By the way, there is already such a prototype. There is a video of its application on the net. Guidance based on data from a ground optical scanner or radar.
  34. meandr51
    meandr51 7 October 2020 18: 38
    -1
    Why not make a patrolling UAV fighter with a simple Kalashnikov assault rifle? By the way, there is already such a prototype. There is a video of its application on the net. Guidance based on data from a ground optical scanner or radar.
  35. xomaNN
    xomaNN 7 October 2020 23: 04
    0
    The Syrian training ground for the Russian air defense turned out to be small. An enemy without aircraft is weak. And then the sides of comparable military systems collided. Only one of them has a UAV. And the fact that the new one grew. the electronic warfare agent "Repellent" was destroyed - an alarming fact. He then had to ruin the control of the UAV.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 7 October 2020 23: 13
      -2
      Quote: xomaNN
      what a new one grew up. the electronic warfare agent "Repellent" was destroyed - an alarming fact.

      The logic teacher was not upset when his friend drowned. My friend could not swim, so he drowned. Everything is logical.
  36. Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 8 October 2020 02: 33
    +1
    It seems that the author believes that Azeirbajan is located on the Black Sea coast and has "oil and gas infrastructure facilities" there. laughing
    1. Shopping Mall
      8 October 2020 09: 38
      0
      Quote: Falcon5555
      It seems that the author believes that Azeirbajan is located on the Black Sea coast and has "oil and gas infrastructure facilities" there. laughing


      First of all, we are talking about intelligence vessels disguised as civilian vessels, possibly acquired or leased, and operating under the flags of other countries. The indicated vessels stationed in the Caspian and in the Black Seas, they can perform the function of monitoring the actions of the naval forces (Navy) of Azerbaijan and Turkey, conduct radio intelligence.

      Of course, in the Caspian Sea, this is possible only with the open or, rather, the tacit consent of one or several countries that have access to the Caspian Sea: Russia, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan or Iran. In the Black Sea, the opportunities are wider, in addition to the countries of the Black Sea basin, Armenia can cooperate in this matter with natural Turkish antagonists, for example, with Greece.
  37. Victorm
    Victorm 8 October 2020 23: 30
    -1
    Inspired by reading:



    Cheap and relatively effective against UAVs.
    Ideal 57mm charger with programmable fuse.
  38. Pavel57
    Pavel57 12 October 2020 00: 39
    -1
    Any missile defense system with an altitude of more than 8 km is sufficient to defeat combat UAVs used by Azerbaijan. And CUBs were quite good for such a task.