Military Review

"We understand that the entire crew died within 90 seconds": the US published a conversation between Putin and Clinton about the Kursk submarine

192

Years after the events with the Kursk nuclear submarine missile cruiser, the United States decided to declassify the transcript of telephone and personal conversations between the then presidents of the Russian Federation and the United States.


A transcript of the talks between Vladimir Putin and Bill Clinton has appeared on the official website of the library of 42 American presidents. It is noteworthy that the Americans made this publication back in August last year, but for various reasons it remained out of the attention of journalists and the interested public for a very long time.

The transcript says that a personal conversation between Putin and Clinton took place in early September 2000 at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York.

From the material:

The US President expressed regret in connection with the incident with the Russian submarine and noted that in 1995 he also had to be especially worried in connection with the terrorist attack in Oklahoma City.

Clinton, addressing Putin, said that if something like this happens in one or another part of the world, then people imagine themselves in the place of those who have faced grief directly, including the relatives of the victims.

Clinton to Putin:

I think you have faced some serious criticism. But it always happens.

The statement of Vladimir Putin is also cited, where the Russian president says that he had no choice: "perhaps, between the bad and the worst options."

Putin:

Someone says that if I immediately sent an underwater vehicle there and we managed to save at least a couple of sailors' lives, then my ratings would rise. But you can't do everything for the sake of PR. And I am very much afraid that something like this could happen again.

The transcript states that Putin, according to him, at that time felt powerless.

Putin on September 6, 2000:

Now we understand that the entire crew died within 60 or 90 seconds. We could not tell our relatives about this.

According to the Russian president, there was a hole up to 2 meters in diameter in the submarine's hull, through which three compartments were flooded.

The conversation took place before the APRK was raised to the surface and important elements (including a note) were discovered that shed some light on how long individual crew members held out.
Photos used:
Russian President's website
192 comments
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  1. figwam
    figwam 5 October 2020 13: 42
    23
    Will we ever find out the truth, probably not.
    1. Virus-free crown
      Virus-free crown 5 October 2020 13: 47
      -34 qualifying.
      Quote: figvam
      Will we ever find out the truth, probably not.

      1. nnm
        nnm 5 October 2020 13: 54
        26
        Well, this video is generally out of place, when in the middle of one topic they asked about the boat. Or, what did you expect a foreign journalist to retell the course of the investigation?
        1. Virus-free crown
          Virus-free crown 5 October 2020 14: 02
          +6
          Quote: nnm
          Well, this video is generally out of place, when in the middle of one topic they asked about the boat. Or, what did you expect a foreign journalist to retell the course of the investigation?

          Twenty years have passed ... I, as a Russian citizen, can already be revealed how Kursk actually drowned ??? ... or the answer will be the same as in the video ?! am
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 5 October 2020 14: 09
            -6
            Quote: Corona without virus
            Twenty years have passed ... I, as a Russian citizen, can already be revealed how Kursk actually drowned ??? ... or the answer will be the same as in the video ?!

            The answer lies in the transcript ..
            Clinton to Putin:

            I think you have faced some serious criticism. But it always happens.

            Putin does not like criticism, and therefore we do not know the answer until he is president.
            1. Prisoner
              Prisoner 5 October 2020 20: 04
              11
              Does anyone even like criticism? For example, do you love her? For such love, one must be either a clinical idiot or a masochist. There are things that we do not know about and will never know until all sorts of vultures are removed, regardless of who was, is or will be the president. ps However, for you, I think, more important is not so much the truth about "Kursk", but a reason to try again to "kick" the GDP. hi
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 5 October 2020 20: 12
                +6
                Quote: Captive
                Does anyone even like criticism? For example, do you love her?

                You can accept criticism, but you can not accept it, Putin not only does not accept it, he starts criminal cases against those who criticize him .. As for me, if I am criticized and, in my opinion, fairly and in a respectful manner, then my attitude very positive. If the criticism is not substantiated and not reasoned, then I simply ignore it, as well as the person who is engaged in this .. Putin is criticized reasonably and reasoned.
                However, for you, I think, more important is not so much the truth about the "Kursk" as a reason to try again to "kick" the GDP. hi

                I know the truth about the Kursk. But in the part with Putin, you are right, this person is deeply unpleasant to me ... and I do not respect him.
                1. vfwfr
                  vfwfr 5 October 2020 22: 01
                  10
                  "" I know the truth about the Kursk "" Tell me?)
            2. vfwfr
              vfwfr 5 October 2020 21: 56
              -1
              Do you like criticism addressed to you? And clearly not in your favor ...
            3. Malyuta
              Malyuta 6 October 2020 22: 18
              +1
              Quote: Svarog
              Putin does not like criticism, and therefore the answer, until he is president, we do not know.

              It’s not a matter of criticism, but that he lied, is lying and will lie!
          2. Sidor Amenpodestovich
            Sidor Amenpodestovich 5 October 2020 14: 58
            +8
            I, as a Russian citizen, can already be revealed how Kursk actually drowned ??? ... or the answer will be the same as in the video ?!

            You, as a Russian citizen, shouldn't lie, at least in the comments.
            However, you are lying. And you don't answer direct questions.
            And after all this, you still have the audacity to claim something?
            1. Virus-free crown
              Virus-free crown 5 October 2020 15: 06
              -2
              Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
              I, as a Russian citizen, can already be revealed how Kursk actually drowned ??? ... or the answer will be the same as in the video ?!

              You, as a Russian citizen, shouldn't lie, at least in the comments.
              However, you are lying. And you don't answer direct questions.
              And after all this, you still have the audacity to claim something?

              This is when I lied in the comments ???? !!!! am poke my nose in front of everyone !!!
              1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                Sidor Amenpodestovich 5 October 2020 15: 09
                19
                Quote: Corona without virus
                This is when he lied in the comments ???? !!!! poke my nose in front of everyone !!!

                Your yesterday's comment made at 19.23.
                Yes, you sho ?! You really lived in Russia this spring ?! Where even now, for without a mask, they will handcuff and beat you in the subway ?!

                You were asked in the same thread why you lied?
                But you preferred to merge on the sly.
                1. Virus-free crown
                  Virus-free crown 5 October 2020 15: 12
                  -21 qualifying.
                  Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
                  Quote: Corona without virus
                  This is when he lied in the comments ???? !!!! poke my nose in front of everyone !!!

                  Your yesterday's comment made at 19.23.
                  Yes, you sho ?! You really lived in Russia this spring ?! Where even now, for without a mask, they will handcuff and beat you in the subway ?!

                  You were asked in the same thread why you lied?
                  But you preferred to merge on the sly.

                  PERSONALLY!!! About three weeks ago, in the Moscow metro, I got under the regime of intensifying the fight against maskless men, and in my presence the man was tied up and put in handcuffs, due to the fact that he was trying to go through the turnstile without a mask !!! am
                  1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                    Sidor Amenpodestovich 5 October 2020 15: 16
                    +8
                    PERSONALLY!!! About three weeks ago, in the Moscow metro, I got under the regime of intensifying the fight against maskless men, and in my presence the man was tied up and put in handcuffs, due to the fact that he was trying to go through the turnstile without a mask !!!

                    Rules are rules. There was nothing to cuddle up and the right to pump.
                    You can also equate police arbitrariness when the police turn drunken drivers.
                    Are you in the store, when they refuse to serve you without a mask, do you also make a scandal and start waving your hands?
                  2. Alex Justice
                    Alex Justice 6 October 2020 16: 36
                    0
                    in front of me the man was tied up and put in handcuffs, because he tried to go through the turnstile without a mask !!!

                    We have a $ 200 fine on the spot.
                  3. ZEMCH
                    ZEMCH 6 October 2020 22: 12
                    -1
                    Quote: Corona without virus
                    PERSONALLY!!! About three weeks ago, in the Moscow metro, I got under the regime of intensifying the fight against maskless men, and in my presence the man was tied up and put in handcuffs, due to the fact that he was trying to go through the turnstile without a mask !!!

                    Which station? I have been going without a mask since March 28, I have been taking tests for the "crown" on a regular basis. demand)) I was asked several times why without a mask and I went on, saying that I did not want to wear it! The maximum is asked to wear!
                    1. Mikhail3
                      Mikhail3 7 October 2020 13: 44
                      0
                      I was in Moscow for a couple of weeks. Almost everyone who walks and travels in the metro is without masks. I didn't wear it either, since I had been ill already, and for a long time. At the train station (practically empty) a woman from the patrol shook her finger at me. The repression ended there.
                    2. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 8 October 2020 00: 57
                      0
                      Quote: ZEMCH
                      The maximum is asked to dress!

                      My friend was punished for three thousand in Moscow. I went into the store without a mask.
                      1. ZEMCH
                        ZEMCH 8 October 2020 01: 37
                        +4
                        But there is no such fine in Moscow - 3000 rubles, a friend deceived you)))
                        The amount of the fine will be 4 thousand rubles. in accordance with Art. 3.18.1 of the Moscow Code of Administrative Offenses, which refers to punishments for failure to comply with the requirements of the capital's authorities aimed at introducing and ensuring a high alert regime. In accordance with the same article, for a repeated violation or violation with the use of a vehicle, an increased fine is imposed - 5 thousand rubles.
                      2. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 8 October 2020 01: 44
                        0
                        Three with something, but I could be wrong, I listened to him half-heartedly, I was a hangover, I had enough of my problems. It's late now, tomorrow I'll call you to clarify. It is registered in the Tula region, maybe that's why? It seems that I did not notice lies behind him, I know him for forty years.
                      3. ZEMCH
                        ZEMCH 8 October 2020 01: 47
                        +2
                        They are insistently asked to wear a mask - yes, but to be fined only if with the set "crown" I got out into the store or transport. Everything else is fairy tales and staging for the buildup of public opinion)))
                      4. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 8 October 2020 01: 57
                        +1
                        Quote: ZEMCH
                        only if with the delivered "crown" I got out into the store or transport.

                        As he told me. He went into the store. In the lobby, the policemen ask about the mask.
                        - I do not have.
                        - Well, come with us.
                        His data was written down and released. Well, he thought that was the end of his adventure. But no. A whole stack of court papers arrives in the mail. Tyr-pyr, such and such that was detained in the store .... I don't even remember what he was saying there. In the summer it was.
    2. Alex777
      Alex777 5 October 2020 15: 06
      11
      20 years have passed ... I, as a Russian citizen, can you already reveal how Kursk actually drowned?

      Does it never occur to us that the States again threw this difficult and difficult topic to us successfully and on time?
      What do you actually want to know?
      That the States drowned the boat, and we didn’t answer because we could not?
      That the admiral at that time could not buy a new jacket and wore a darned one?
      What do you want to know besides what is already known?
      Or is your task to throw on the fan?
      Where do such lovers of truth come from ... request
      1. Virus-free crown
        Virus-free crown 5 October 2020 15: 09
        -8
        Quote: Alex777
        20 years have passed ... I, as a Russian citizen, can you already reveal how Kursk actually drowned?

        .
        What do you actually want to know?
        .

        I want to know how Kursk actually died ... I have the right !!! soldier
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 5 October 2020 15: 11
          -3
          Justify this right.
          1. Virus-free crown
            Virus-free crown 5 October 2020 15: 14
            -7
            Quote: Alex777
            Justify this right.

            I am a citizen of Russia !!! good This is my RIGHT !!! like any other citizen of Russia ... not to mention the families of the dead sailors ...
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 5 October 2020 15: 16
              0
              I didn't just ask a question about law ...
              Since your relatives were not there, sit still.
              And there is no need to disturb the people out of idle curiosity. yes
        2. ved_med12
          ved_med12 5 October 2020 18: 39
          -5
          https://ria.ru/20190812/1557340444.html
          Read it, Young man. 51 years old!
          1. Virus-free crown
            Virus-free crown 5 October 2020 19: 04
            +2
            Quote: ved_med12
            https://ria.ru/20190812/1557340444.html
            Read it, Young man. 51 years old!

            I read these "excuses" at the beginning of this century, they did not convince me ... just as they did not convince many other people, like that ...
        3. ZEMCH
          ZEMCH 6 October 2020 22: 14
          +1
          As they declassify, they will tell. Read the State Secret Law)))
        4. ZEMCH
          ZEMCH 6 October 2020 22: 17
          0
          Quote: Corona without virus
          I want to know how Kursk actually died ... I have the right !!!

          Know that if the first compartment had been battened down, as expected, then most of the crew would be alive. Is that enough for you?
          1. Fizik M
            Fizik M 7 October 2020 09: 59
            0
            Quote: ZEMCH
            if the first compartment had been battened down, as expected, then most of the crew would have been alive. E

            no
            but why the bulkhead door was torn off is a very bad question
            because to the point of the volley (where it is really detached) K-141 was still going and going
      2. vfwfr
        vfwfr 5 October 2020 22: 06
        0
        Well, about the tunic, I doubt it ... But in general I agree.
        I will add ... "they drowned the boat," Well, they would tell then, then what .. the people demanded a response .. the result could be different .. They would tell now .. and what would change? nothing ... In any case, for the people and the iLita in particular in the Russian Federation.
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 5 October 2020 23: 56
          0
          Well, about the jacket, I doubt it ...

          The edges of the sleeves were hemmed to be exact ...
          They wear out the fastest.
          EBN thanks.
    3. vfwfr
      vfwfr 5 October 2020 21: 59
      0
      And what will change?
    4. 9PA
      9PA 6 October 2020 08: 28
      -1
      Collision with amerskaya, erroneous torpedoing of amerskaya pl. Why did Bill even talk to Putin about this topic? What will change from the truth?
  • loki565
    loki565 5 October 2020 14: 03
    16
    Larry King is a strong interviewer, he asks about the family about children and when a person relaxes begins to smile, immediately switches to sharp topics, this is his favorite crown
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 7 October 2020 13: 47
      +1
      Putin is a professional intelligence agent. There is no such "crown" to which a pro from a TV commentator will succumb. The difference in class is just gigantic ...
  • Xnumx vis
    Xnumx vis 5 October 2020 21: 58
    +5
    Personally, I am disgusted with all this dancing in the memory of the dead guys ... Childhood friend Volodya Bagryantsev and nephew of my friend Sergei Kokurin ... Sucking up the statements of American experts disgusting and vulgar.
  • g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 5 October 2020 13: 49
    +2
    In 2024? To spoil the mood, the Americans will throw in tons of provocations, fakes mixed with compromising evidence.
    There must be at least one spoonful of honey in a barrel de..ma to deceive the average man to eat it all.
    1. nikon7717
      nikon7717 5 October 2020 19: 22
      14
      Quote: g1washntwn
      In 2024? To spoil the mood, the Americans will throw in tons of provocations, fakes mixed with compromising evidence.
      There must be at least one spoonful of honey in a barrel de..ma to deceive the average man to eat it all.

      The problem lies elsewhere ... Today a lot of local work has been done to discredit the authorities. And the impression is that those at the top have already lost touch with reality very much.
      Constant games with PF. Can't put things in order. The growth of taxes on individual entrepreneurs and self-employed, when they need to create conditions for development. And spread rot as I do not know who. A bunch of those who went bankrupt in six months. Children need to be taught. And who will teach them and how will it be? What are the programs at the school?
      Why does the plumber say our pipes are g .. but take import? Is the technology at the plant bad or do they steal materials and want to snatch themselves and do not follow the cycle?
      When did we lower the prices for gasoline and diesel? Why in Italy they can dispense 20 liters for free, but we don't? Where is the toad pressing?
      1. g1washntwn
        g1washntwn 6 October 2020 08: 39
        +1
        Everybody has problems, mistakes, miscalculations and shortcomings. The question is how to discredit the other and hide yours. After all, you can inflate about the free distribution of gasoline and keep silent about the riots of the unemployed. That's the whole simplified formula.
        IMHO, outplayed in "free market" and "democracy". Liberalism calls for filling its own pocket, so we have a rampant capitalist anarchy. And the EU does not bother, it took the Soviet model of the general plan and the division of labor by regions and cuts bills providing exemplary communes. An emergency situation requires urgent solutions without looking back and advice from over the shoulder. Simply put, it's high time to put on your boots and start distributing magic accelerating pendels.
  • nnm
    nnm 5 October 2020 13: 50
    0
    At least, if it does, it will not be very soon ...
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 5 October 2020 15: 05
      +5
      Quote: nnm
      At least, if it does, it will not be very soon ...

      There are always two truths, one for them, the other for us. But there is no truth for everyone.
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 5 October 2020 13: 58
    13
    Quote: figvam
    Will we ever know the truth

    does society want the truth?
    1. vfwfr
      vfwfr 5 October 2020 22: 09
      +1
      And ready to hear and accept? ..
  • NEOZ
    NEOZ 5 October 2020 14: 39
    -5
    Quote: figvam
    Will we ever find out the truth, probably not.

    sometimes it's better to live in ignorance ...
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 5 October 2020 19: 46
      +7
      Quote: NEOZ
      sometimes it's better to live in ignorance ...

      Who is better?
      1. NEOZ
        NEOZ 7 October 2020 00: 10
        +1
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Who is better?

        life is better for those who are better off in ignorance ... it's logical!
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 5 October 2020 15: 19
    19
    The death of the boat and crew is a tragedy. However, it does not matter whether the crew died after 60 seconds or after 60 minutes. Big problems were revealed in the rescue system for ships in distress. Has anything changed for the better over these 20 years? The Navy has specialized submarine rescue vessels that operate not only at 100 meters, but also at 300-500 meters ...? What kind of ships are they capable of performing their work in difficult climatic conditions, with strong waves? Does the Navy have a group of divers capable of working at great depths? The dead cannot be returned, but you need to draw conclusions and protect the living. Are we saving? And if, God forbid, it happens again, can we quickly organize a rescue operation for those in distress ???
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 5 October 2020 15: 50
      +7
      Quote: Doccor18
      Does the Navy have a group of divers capable of working at great depths?

      and it is necessary!?!?! taking into account the possibilities of legal acts
      Quote: Doccor18
      Big problems were revealed in the rescue system of ships in distress. Has anything changed for the better over these 20 years?

      "Titis-Pro" (and the military they fed) dough, yes - they sawed
      and in the overwhelming majority - ON IMPORT
      Quote: Doccor18
      The Navy has specialized submarine rescue vessels that operate not only at 100 meters, but also at 300-500 meters ...?

      everything was done so that they did not appear
      with the active participation of "Tethys" ...
  • Maz
    Maz 5 October 2020 15: 36
    11
    As far as I know, the Kursk topic is purely humanly forbidden among all submariners and sailors. An unwritten law, a rule. Somehow I wanted to include an episode with Kursk in the book - just in case I consulted with a representative of the General Staff of the Navy. He roughly said - "Do not touch Maz, Kursk in any form, this is our grief, this is our pain, do not even mention it." I was not even ordered, they asked me so that I felt ashamed myself, I didn’t realize it myself. And the Americans did mean, not humanly, such things can be spread only with the mutual consent of the parties. Well, I'm not surprised by their act. The dead will not forgive them. Shame.
    1. Doccor18
      Doccor18 5 October 2020 15: 47
      +4
      ... the Kursk theme is purely humanly forbidden among all submariners and sailors ...

      Humanly, everything is clear.
      And from a professional point of view ... I really want to hope that the leadership of the Navy drew the right conclusions from this tragedy.
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 5 October 2020 17: 18
        0
        Quote: Doccor18
        And from a professional point of view ... I really want to hope that the leadership of the Navy drew the right conclusions from this tragedy.

        no
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M 5 October 2020 15: 48
      10
      Quote: Maz
      As far as I know, the Kursk topic is purely humanly forbidden among all submariners and sailors. Unwritten law, rule

      what the hell?!?!
    3. Rudkovsky
      Rudkovsky 6 October 2020 11: 55
      -6
      This is called "not washing dirty linen in public."

      And so with Kursk, everything is clear - 118 people became victims of cheap show-off of the beginning president of the Russian Federation, who least of all needed that, after the drowned newest submarine, it would still be found out that we cannot save - but Norway can. Therefore, they were allowed to work only when they were sure that everyone on board was dead.
      1. timokhin-aa
        timokhin-aa 7 October 2020 11: 27
        0
        do not write nonsense
        1. Rudkovsky
          Rudkovsky 7 October 2020 23: 26
          -5
          And what is nonsense? That the command, that would hide their shoals and helplessness deprives people of a chance for salvation? 118 deaths and delays without a clear cause with the admission of Norwegians in history is evident. We cannot save ourselves, so no one will save.

          And now they also lie that everyone died there within a minute.
          1. timokhin-aa
            timokhin-aa 8 October 2020 00: 32
            +1
            You are not writing the truth. Nobody specially "blasted" the remains of the crew. This is a very stupid lie.

            And now they also lie that everyone died there within a minute.


            You cannot even master that the transcript of the dialogue that took place when no one knew exactly how the events took place on board the boat is being discussed.
            1. Rudkovsky
              Rudkovsky 8 October 2020 00: 42
              -4
              How could they not be plagued? And who did not let the Norwegians work for a week? Let me remind you that they opened the aft hatch in ONE day. And there were 20 sailors in the aft compartment. More precisely 20 corpses of sailors. This whole story revolves around "saving face", when it is better not to save at all than if we do not save.

              And you are defending all this meanness. Not ashamed?
              1. timokhin-aa
                timokhin-aa 8 October 2020 11: 29
                0
                The Norwegians had to be there in a matter of hours to save at least someone.
            2. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 8 October 2020 01: 19
              +1
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              the transcript of the dialogue that took place when no one knew exactly how the events took place on board the boat is discussed.

              Wait a minute. Isn't Igor Dygalo for us all over the country broadcasting from screens for several days: "They're knocking!"
              1. timokhin-aa
                timokhin-aa 8 October 2020 11: 28
                0
                Dygalo was not there, he simply passed on what he was ordered to, and who knocked there and from what boat - an interesting question.
  • Alexey Kurtov
    Alexey Kurtov 6 October 2020 09: 37
    0
    What else do you really need?
  • OgnennyiKotik
    OgnennyiKotik 5 October 2020 13: 43
    45
    Now we understand that the entire crew died within 60 or 90 seconds. We could not tell our relatives about this.

    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. elai
      elai 5 October 2020 13: 47
      19
      Yes, too, the question immediately arose .... they wrote the same and proven fact! As within 90 sec.

      And second, about the truth, if there was a collision with a foreign boat (USA), then we definitely won't know, for the sake of the scandal it will not be hidden, and our life is definitely not enough to find out, perhaps our ancestors.
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 01
        +8
        Quote: elai
        they also wrote a proven fact! As within 90 sec.

        he said about the nasal compartments
        + translation nuances are possible
        As for the notes, the main thing in them is that they began to equip the B-64
        and there is a "very bad question" - WHY?!?!? - for there was no need for this ...
        Well, and "quite a question" - they AT LEAST ONCE have REALLY equipped the B-64 before?
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 5 October 2020 15: 13
          +3
          translation nuances are possible

          And a special provocation is possible.
          In war as in war.
          1. Fizik M
            Fizik M 5 October 2020 15: 25
            +5
            Quote: Alex777
            And a special provocation is possible.

            Yes
        2. elai
          elai 10 October 2020 18: 39
          0
          B 52 did you mean ..
      2. loki565
        loki565 5 October 2020 14: 06
        12
        This conversation took place before they raised the boat and found out who died when.
        1. Roman13579
          Roman13579 5 October 2020 14: 54
          -5
          Then why talk about what you don't know about ?? It turns out - what a balabol ??
          Or did you know ??

          There was also a conversation about a wooden Mac before the retirement age was raised.
      3. Per se.
        Per se. 5 October 2020 16: 33
        +9
        Quote: elai
        if there was a collision with a foreign boat (USA), then we will not know for sure
        We already know that there were “Memphis” and “Toledo”, this is a fact. Another fact, the words spoken by Admiral Popov from the screen to the whole country ...
        Then, in August 2000, the commander of the Northern Fleet, Admiral Vyacheslav Popov, from the TV screen throughout the country expressed his condolences to the families of the dead submariners, apologized to them and promised to look in the eyes of the one who was guilty of the Kursk tragedy ... Two years ago, in the Severomorsk administration, Speaking to the families of the deceased submarine nuclear submarines, Vyacheslav Alekseevich recalled: “I kept my promise, looked into his eyes. But I can’t name this person yet ... "

      4. -Dmitry-
        -Dmitry- 6 October 2020 07: 12
        +4
        Well, on purpose, a remark was made in the article - the conversation took place before the boat was raised and, accordingly, before the fact that there were still living people in the 9th compartment was established.
    3. The popuas
      The popuas 5 October 2020 13: 49
      18
      Trust them (the authorities), do not respect themselves! Dead submariners, rest in peace hi
      1. NEOZ
        NEOZ 5 October 2020 14: 40
        -2
        Quote: Popuas
        Trust them (the authorities), do not respect themselves!

        and who do you believe?
        1. The popuas
          The popuas 5 October 2020 16: 10
          0
          Who do I trust hi
    4. Varyag71
      Varyag71 5 October 2020 13: 52
      0
      There is no faith in this nullified for a long time
      1. frruc
        frruc 5 October 2020 13: 58
        -2
        Who do you believe?
      2. NEOZ
        NEOZ 5 October 2020 14: 41
        -4
        Quote: Varyag71
        There is no faith in this nullified for a long time

        and who is there?
    5. loki565
      loki565 5 October 2020 13: 56
      +8
      Here, as if not the full text, and as I understand this conversation was before the boat was lifted and the note was found.
      Now it looks like the entire crew died within 60 or 90 seconds. We could not tell our relatives, but there was a hole in the hull about two meters in size, through which the first three compartments of the submarine flooded. I don't even know how we can get the bodies out. There is a lot of cod in these waters - there may be no flesh on the bones.
      RBC:
      https://www.rbc.ru/politics/05/10/2020/5f7ad8bb9a7947c8be3017b8?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop
      1. kig
        kig 8 October 2020 04: 23
        +1
        Quote: loki565
        This is not the full text

        The text is almost complete. The Clinton Library website contains a lot of files with declassified conversations and negotiations with different people and for completely different reasons. Conversations with Putin were both on the phone (designated as telcons) and personal (memcons). This particular file weighs 8 GB, it contains both personal and telephone conversations, starts January 3, 2000, ends December 27, 2000. There are more than 200 pages in acrobat format. Specifically, this conversation takes only two pages, namely 60 and 61. In the article it is retold literally word for word.


        1. kig
          kig 8 October 2020 10: 41
          +2
          For what a minus, admit it! Not that touched, but very interesting.
    6. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 5 October 2020 14: 21
      +7
      Right. And DDT told about this more than all the media. Read the comments:
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 30
        +5
        Quote: ROSS 42
        And DDT told about this more than all the media.

        alas, if Shevchuk knew the truth, I don't think that this song would have appeared ...
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 5 October 2020 14: 43
          12
          Quote: Fizik M
          alas, if Shevchuk knew the truth

          Every country has truth, official opinion and material for the media and the public. Sometimes even an ordinary switchman, even a press secretary, even a personal security guard or a driver knows more than everyone who is conducting an investigation together.
          But the situation when the information of some does not match (to put it mildly) with the opinion of other officials speaks for itself. And the opinion expressed here:
          Quote: nnm
          Or did families deserve the lie? Or did he just admit it, and not the United States published it? Or are we still not ready?

          suits me perfectly. The questions remained unanswered. Is there any point in continuing to keep people in the dark? Or about the hole in the boat the same version as in the speech about the need to increase the retirement age?
          Yes, we are fed up with these fairy tales ...
  • Operator
    Operator 5 October 2020 13: 47
    +7
    The very fact of publication undermines the reputation of the United States as a responsible party in interstate relations - transcripts of bilateral negotiations are published only with the consent of all parties.

    Most likely, the publication was made to block personal negotiations between Trump and Putin, but at the same time, the opportunity for all subsequent US presidents to conduct personal negotiations with the heads of state of any other country in the world is forever blocked. From this point on, meaningful negotiations are possible only through representatives of the lower-level parties.

    If Trump wants to restore the reputation of the United States, then he will have to jail the initiators of this publication for life.
    1. Varyag71
      Varyag71 5 October 2020 13: 56
      -15 qualifying.
      Autumn aggravation?
  • nnm
    nnm 5 October 2020 13: 49
    17
    Now we understand that the entire crew died within 60 or 90 seconds. We could not tell our relatives about this.

    WHY???!!! Why couldn't they ?! Was it better to lie? Talk about knocks, involve rescuers, and who then wrote the famous note that a colleague quoted above ?!
    People, on the other hand, happened to every word and, holding their breath for several days, hoped that friends, husbands, fathers would return .. - so is it possible to scoff, but the truth cannot be told ?!
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 5 October 2020 13: 56
      +6
      Quote: nnm
      Why couldn't they?

      At that time we DIDN'T have more than one rescue vehicle
      1. nnm
        nnm 5 October 2020 13: 57
        +8
        Why couldn't they tell the truth.
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 5 October 2020 14: 02
          -1
          Quote: nnm
          Why couldn't they tell the truth.

          People were all on edge. Nobody would have understood him.
          I remember the footage when he came to a meeting with relatives and what kind of atmosphere there was
          The transcript states that Putin, according to him, at that time felt powerless.

          Well, something like this
          1. nnm
            nnm 5 October 2020 14: 05
            +3
            Remind WHAT HE TOLD THEM?
            Putin, August 22, 2000: "The military believed that they had all the means of salvation in their hands. Because they believed that they had all these means of salvation in their hands. Since the boat, I repeat, was built with them at once. And these both apparatuses are in the Northern Fleet. This is what they proceeded from. As soon as foreign assistance was offered - it was on the 15th - Kuroyedov immediately agreed with it. <...> It cannot be said that they cheated .. After all, they told the truth. These life-saving devices were. But they did not work. "
            1. Lipchanin
              Lipchanin 5 October 2020 14: 10
              -4
              And what did he say wrong?
              He calmed people in this way
              Now we understand that the entire crew died within 60 or 90 seconds. We couldn't tell our relatives about it.
          2. nnm
            nnm 5 October 2020 14: 08
            +4
            Why so? These are members of military families. And everyone knows that the father may not return home. All the more so with submariners Or did families deserve the lie? Or did he just admit it, and not the United States published it? Or are we still not ready?
            1. Lipchanin
              Lipchanin 5 October 2020 14: 27
              -6
              Quote: nnm
              Or did families deserve the lie?

              There is such a thing as a lie for salvation
              and not the United States published?

              And this is no longer an argument
              Trampushka recently talked to one president and immediately posted the whole conversation to journalists
              1. nnm
                nnm 5 October 2020 14: 56
                +3
                Quote: Lipchanin
                There is such a thing as a lie for salvation

                And how, dear colleague, did this lie save many? It seems that this lie was not protecting the health and lives of people, but something else ...
          3. Varyag71
            Varyag71 5 October 2020 14: 26
            +4
            And I remember how wives and mothers asked questions, and state security officers suddenly ran up to them and quickly made ukolchiki, and then pulled out people
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 5 October 2020 15: 06
              +5
              Quote: Varyag71
              and the state security officers suddenly ran up to them and quickly made ukolchiki

              or maybe just doctors?
      2. Fizik M
        Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 01
        14
        Quote: Lipchanin
        At that time we DIDN'T have more than one rescue vehicle

        were
        we just couldn't suck
        due to the OPEN VALVE in the 9th compartment
        but by that moment K-141 was no longer alive ...
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 5 October 2020 14: 04
          -4
          Quote: Fizik M
          we just couldn't suck
          due to the OPEN VALVE in the 9th compartment

          Quote: Fizik M
          we just couldn't suck
          due to the OPEN VALVE in the 9th compartment

          And the Swedes were able
          1. Fizik M
            Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 14
            +6
            Quote: Lipchanin
            And the Swedes were able

            do not confuse "sit down" and "suck"
            1. Lipchanin
              Lipchanin 5 October 2020 14: 29
              -3
              Quote: Fizik M
              do not confuse "sit down" and "suck"

              So the Swedes sat down and sucked
              1. Fizik M
                Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 41
                +3
                Quote: Lipchanin
                and sucked

                about the sucker - HZ
                although it might be a matter of pump performance
                a tube through which water came (open valve), from memory with a diameter of less than 0,5 cm
        2. water
          water 5 October 2020 14: 18
          +7
          Quote: Fizik M
          Quote: Lipchanin
          At that time we DIDN'T have more than one rescue vehicle

          were
          we just couldn't suck
          due to the OPEN VALVE in the 9th compartment
          but by that moment K-141 was no longer alive ...

          On the bill: by that time there were living people in the 9th compartment - that's a question. But at the expense: the OPEN VALVE in the 9th compartment is nonsense.
          1. Fizik M
            Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 20
            +4
            Quote: watermark
            But at the expense: the OPEN VALVE in the 9th compartment is nonsense.

            it is a fact
      3. ANB
        ANB 5 October 2020 15: 04
        +1
        There were. Civilians. And there were divers. Also civilians recently dismissed from service. And they asked to be sent. They were not allowed, like the Norwegians at first.
      4. Motorist
        Motorist 5 October 2020 20: 01
        +1
        Quote: Lipchanin
        At that time we DIDN'T have more than one rescue vehicle

        There were apparatuses. The coaming pad was damaged.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 5 October 2020 21: 25
          0
          Quote: Motorist
          The coaming pad was damaged.

          there was no "damage"
          1. Motorist
            Motorist 5 October 2020 21: 36
            0
            Fizik M, I was at home then, every day I watched newscasts on all channels (including NTV Western propaganda then). Saw this crack in the records. This is my source of information, what is yours?
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 6 October 2020 00: 37
              0
              Quote: Motorist
              Saw this crack in the records. This is my source of information

              so show this "crack"
              even Ustinov did not succeed
              Quote: Motorist
              which is yours?

              good knowledge of the 949A project
              and not only
              1. Motorist
                Motorist 6 October 2020 19: 52
                +1
                Fizik M, hello.

                Quote: Fizik M
                so show this "crack"

                A shallow search for a photo of the coaming area does not return any results. It takes time for a deeper search, as well as to watch kilometers of tape, and as luck would have it, I was banned from YouTube. So I will temporarily consider the memories "false".

                Quote: Fizik M
                and not only

                But this is already an argument that dispels all doubts and removes questions! Good luck and health to you! hi
    2. Fizik M
      Fizik M 5 October 2020 13: 56
      +3
      Quote: nnm
      WHY???!!! Why couldn't they ?! Was it better to lie?

      Putin acted EXTREMELY in that situation
      both as a statesman and as a person


      A simple question, but the society, the families of the victims were ready to hear the truth? I mean exactly the objective facts, and very unpleasant conclusions? Incl. about "some of the dead"
      1. nnm
        nnm 5 October 2020 14: 00
        +8
        But there is no need to decide for families! For the parents who have been listening to the words about knocking for days, that the rescuers are about to come. Don't play with other people's lives in such a matter. Or what, a small child in a few days will better receive the news of his father's death?
        Or I remembered this:
        Putin, August 22, 2000: "The military believed that they had all the means of salvation in their hands. Because they believed that they had all these means of salvation in their hands. Since the boat, I repeat, was built with them at once. And these both apparatuses are in the Northern Fleet. This is what they proceeded from. As soon as foreign assistance was offered - it was on the 15th - Kuroyedov immediately agreed with it. <...> It cannot be said that they cheated .. After all, they told the truth. These life-saving devices were. But they did not work. "
        This is normal? How can you do this with people? Give hope and take it back again and again every day.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 07
          12
          Quote: nnm
          But there is no need to decide for families!

          No problem:
          The launch control device, removed from the rubble of the third compartment, lacks the launch key in its regular place, which was the main reason for the failure of the alarm buoy.
          Subsequently, the forensic technical examination of the entire exhaust emergency information device, carried out in the case, confirmed that at the time of the disaster its instruments were in a position that did not provide the possibility of separating the signal buoy from the submarine and transmitting emergency information to them.
          At the same time, the picture was frankly depressing.
          The starting key was not in its proper place, but in the same device, in the inlet of the flood sensor, an unremoved technological plug was found, which excluded the possibility of issuing an automatic signal when the third compartment was flooded to a depth of 85 meters.

          .
          As established in the course of the administrative investigation, the ill-fated device arrived at the Sevmash enterprise, where the Kursk was built, assembled and sealed. Before being installed in a regular place, it passed the entrance control and bench tests. At the stage of mooring and sea trials, the required work was completed in full. All types of tests were presented by the Quality Department and accepted. The product was sealed and installed on order.
          As indicated in the operating documentation for the B-600 device, an indispensable condition is annual, with the mandatory removal of the device, maintenance in a coastal workshop with the involvement of industry representatives.
          However, during the entire period of its operation on the Kursk (from 1994 to 2000), such maintenance was never carried out. In the spring of 2000, the service life of the complex was extended until April 1, 2001. But since during the survey the device itself was not opened, it was concluded that the safety check found in the pyrohead of the pneumatic antenna device was installed at the plant (FSUE "Electropribor" , Moscow).
          At the same time it turned out that the same manufacturer installed the mentioned technological plug on the device, which excluded the possibility of issuing an automatic signal "Flooding" to the floating buoy.
          It was also established that all types of tests and acceptance of the final emergency information device were carried out in 1994 by the 376th Military Representation of the RF Ministry of Defense.
          Based on the materials of the administrative investigation, it was concluded that the technological plug and safety check were not removed due to the negligence of industry representatives during the final assembly of the devices. During the same administrative investigation, similar devices were examined on other submarines of the Northern and Pacific fleets, but no such violations were revealed.
          The most bitter circumstance in the history of the emergency buoy cannot be silenced either.
          According to an extract from the Typical ship schedules for the personnel of cruising submarines of project 949A, to which the Kursk belonged, the responsibility for preparing the V-600 product for operation at the time the ship is being prepared for battle and the cruise is assigned to the commander of the communications group of the communications warhead (BCH-4). The commander of the communications group reports to the commander of the combat unit on readiness for battle and the march.
          According to the schedule, the place of the commander of the BCh-4 communication group is in the third compartment. And it was the commander of the liaison group, before the Kursk APRK set out on the campaign on August XNUMX, who was obliged to insert the launch key into its regular place in the exhaust device, which is stored in the warhead commander's safe when the ship is in the base. For unknown reasons, this was not done.
          “Maybe I know the reason,” Anatoly Pavlovich Rudakov, the father of Andrei Rudakov, captain of the 3rd rank, commander of warhead-4, who died on the Kursk, responded with a pain in his voice. - This very buoy spoiled their blood, even when they went to Mediterranean. What a technique! They only thought so as not to accidentally lose. Any submariner will tell you about this old sore. It happened that the buoy was even welded on, what kind of automation is there ...
          Whether it was so on the Kursk, as the father, who lost his son, also a sailor in the past, says, I cannot judge. Anyway, interrogated
          The head of the Northern Fleet communications department, Rear Admiral V. Sokolov, who was interrogated in the case as a witness, could not explain the reasons for the gross violations of the procedure for carrying out the regulations and repairs of the B-600 product, as well as its operation at the Kursk APRK.
          The head of the 376th Military Representation of the RF Ministry of Defense, Captain 1st Rank I. Yakovlev, interrogated in the case as a witness, said that the documents on the testing and acceptance of the B-600 complex for the Kursk APRK were destroyed according to an act in 1999 due to the expiration of their storage period ... The reasons for the revealed violations of the acceptance and operation of the product, the witness said, is unknown to him ...

          at the same time, Rudakov's father, to put it mildly, is not telling the truth ...

          would you like to continue? there will be very HARD questions
          incl. to the officer corps surviving in the aft compartments
          1. nnm
            nnm 5 October 2020 14: 10
            0
            But you see, all this "may I know" ....
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 13
              +8
              Quote: nnm
              all this "may I know" ....

              No problem ...
              - why didn't they check the ASL fittings in the 9th compartment (if they messed up during cooking)
              - why the heck began to equip the B64, despite the fact that there was no need for this, and the l / s was most likely unprepared for this
              - going upstairs was quite possible, in any case, the "inflated" SSP with a note to throw up through the ASL was possible
              etc.
              1. uhu189
                uhu189 5 October 2020 15: 09
                +1
                I apologize for interfering, but tell me, what is B64?
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 5 October 2020 15: 21
                  +5
                  Quote: uhu189
                  B64?

                  chemical recovery plate complex
                  installed in RDU - two-tier regenerative unit
                  on nuclear-powered ships of the 2nd and 3rd generations, with electrolysis installations was used as an emergency supply of oxygen
                  clearly (HOW TO DO IT), the B-64 box is there in the lower left corner of the photo

                  Example 2 (diesel submarine of the Northern Fleet). Photo of the newspaper "Guard of the Baltic" "Corsairs of the ocean depths", equipping regeneration in dirty and greasy Chinese gloves, trying to set up an explosion and fire in the torpedo compartment. Deck above - ammunition, incl. oxygen torpedoes 53-65K!
                  I repeat, the question is not to these sailors (they were simply not taught), but to an extremely low level of officers, and their superiors, who saw this photo and did not notice the roughest prerequisites for the catastrophe.

                  https://topwar.ru/156337-kuda-bezhit-admiral-evmenov.html
                  1. Fizik M
                    Fizik M 5 October 2020 15: 28
                    +7
                    Quote: Fizik M
                    clearly (HOW TO DO NOT)

                    for old and normally trained divers, this photo causes a flood of mat and seething rage
        2. NEOZ
          NEOZ 5 October 2020 14: 59
          -4
          Quote: nnm
          But there is no need to decide for families! For the parents who have been listening to the words about knocking for days, that the rescuers are about to come. Don't play with other people's lives in such a matter. Or what, a small child in a few days will better receive the news of his father's death?

          I think you are hypertrophying the problem ... if there is one ...
          ps
          did what they thought was best in this situation.
          PPP
          Or do you think that you did not say right away because you wanted to see the experiences of relatives?
          1. nnm
            nnm 5 October 2020 15: 02
            +3
            Dear colleague, I understand your opinion. And, sorry, I just do not want to answer the topic of what I think about the reasons for this lie.
            Quote: nnm
            Honestly, after reading, emotions rolled over, and now I don't even want to write anything.
            Eternal memory to the fallen soldiers and a happy and long life to those who did not wait for their relatives and friends from the campaign.
            And everything else - let it remain on the conscience of those who made the decision. How we ourselves behaved in that situation - no one knows.
    3. K-612-O
      K-612-O 5 October 2020 13: 57
      14
      And who told you that this transcript was not edited by our "partners"?
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 08
        +5
        Quote: K-612-O
        And who told you that this transcript was not edited by our "partners"?

        may not be edited
        - because this is only a small fragment of the CLOSED picture
        but which suits the American side
        1. g1washntwn
          g1washntwn 5 October 2020 14: 26
          +3
          Quote: Fizik M
          maybe not edited, because this is only a small fragment of a CLOSED picture, but which suits the American side

          It depends on what goals. It's hard to believe in white and fluffy ones. I would rather believe in their confessions about their involvement in the catastrophe, if only to throw something out against the GDP. For the third time, no one will laugh at the anecdote about the Newbie.
  • Unknown
    Unknown 5 October 2020 13: 54
    +4
    I always guessed that the admirals S.F., and the country's leadership, were aware of all the details of the explosion at Kursk. Putin knows that all the kuro-eaters died the coordinates of the sunken boat. but the most important, why there was an explosion, no one will know. a secret sealed with seven seals. therefore, the bow was left at the bottom. eternal memory to submariners.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 5 October 2020 13: 57
      +7
      Quote: Unknown
      the most important, why there was an explosion, no one will know. the secret behind seven seals

      who in the subject knew about it almost immediately
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 5 October 2020 14: 28
        0
        Quote: Fizik M
        who in the subject knew about it almost immediately

        So why was there an explosion?
        Or are you not in the subject?
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 39
          -2
          Quote: Bez 310
          So why was there an explosion?

          from what the explosion causes
          well, you are a military professional
          1. Bez 310
            Bez 310 5 October 2020 15: 04
            0
            This is not an answer...
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 5 October 2020 15: 14
              -2
              Quote: Bez 310
              This is not an answer...

              Will an answer like "powerful intense energy source" suit you?
              1. Bez 310
                Bez 310 5 October 2020 15: 59
                -1
                If you don’t want to talk, don’t strain.
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 5 October 2020 16: 03
                  -1
                  Quote: Bez 310
                  If you don’t want to talk, don’t strain.

                  i already said
                  just "someone" does not want to strain to think
              2. stels_07
                stels_07 5 October 2020 18: 24
                +1
                "Energy source" for 1/6 of the land was produced?
                1. Fizik M
                  Fizik M 5 October 2020 18: 39
                  0
                  Quote: stels_07
                  "Energy source" for 1/6 of the land was produced?

                  no, of course
  • APASUS
    APASUS 5 October 2020 14: 01
    +1
    Very similar to an agreement. No one has ever explained in court the origin of the hole with the curved edges inward.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 11
      10
      Quote: APASUS
      No one ever explained

      Cut through
    2. loki565
      loki565 5 October 2020 14: 14
      +5
      So this dent after the nasal compartments were cut off. The lightweight body could jam when cut off, or when lifted. There was a 2 m hole in the nose and an unexploded torpedo. Therefore, it was decided to cut it off.
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 17
        +4
        Quote: loki565
        unexploded torpedo. Therefore, it was decided to cut it off.

        Yeah
        but "for some reason" the presence of other unexploded torpedoes in the hull of the boat did not prevent its recovery
        1. loki565
          loki565 5 October 2020 14: 22
          +5
          Yeah
          but "for some reason" the presence of other unexploded torpedoes in the hull of the boat did not prevent its recovery

          So the nose was badly damaged and they did not know about the condition of these torpedoes. And the rest of the hull was practically not damaged.
          1. Fizik M
            Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 24
            +4
            Quote: loki565
            And the rest of the hull was practically not damaged.

            Are you talking about broken bulkheads and "compressed" equipment and human bodies?
            1. loki565
              loki565 5 October 2020 14: 25
              +1
              This is me about the weapons that were in their mines and were not damaged.
              1. Fizik M
                Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 37
                +3
                Quote: loki565
                This is me about the weapons that were in their mines and were not damaged.

                well, if they began to saw in the mines, then both the people and the specialists "would not understand at all"
    3. water
      water 5 October 2020 14: 28
      +2
      Quote: APASUS
      Very similar to an agreement. No one has ever explained in court the origin of the hole with the curved edges inward.

      A smooth hole, presumably - remained on the light hull, in the place of a piece cut out by divers with traces of a blow, presumably by someone's stern stabilizer. Cut out and apparently sent for examination.
    4. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 5 October 2020 14: 33
      +1
      Yes, of course, the hole was "interesting," I also sinned on it, but there is a photograph of the compartment on the left side, there is no penetration, the hull is intact. If the torpedo had an inert part, it would not have punched a solid hull. Photo of our and American submarines with training torpedoes in light, outer hulls in tyrnet enough. What was, in Severomorsk they know for sure at the top. There are many, but, unexplained. Until 2007, he was a Murmansk citizen. My version that did not part with an American under water. There was a photo of the American submarine in the dock with a torn apart light body in the nose, if this is not a fake photo at a dock in Norway. hi
      1. timokhin-aa
        timokhin-aa 5 October 2020 18: 23
        +2
        It was a fake photo, in fact "Memphis" went there for a few days and then until mid-autumn - on the BS. There was no damage to it.

        But Toledo is a completely different question. But it didn’t come up.
      2. APASUS
        APASUS 5 October 2020 19: 40
        0
        Quote: tralflot1832
        Yes, of course, the hole is "interesting," I also sinned on it, but there is a photograph of the compartment on the left side, there is no penetration, the hull is intact.

        I reviewed it from dozens of angles and it is still there.


    5. stels_07
      stels_07 5 October 2020 18: 15
      0
      Mk48 can make such a hole?
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 5 October 2020 19: 39
        +1
        Quote: stels_07
        Mk48 can make such a hole?

        Of course not
  • Alien From
    Alien From 5 October 2020 14: 04
    +7
    It is better not to stir this topic up. Grief and pain for the dead submariners ((((
  • sleeve
    sleeve 5 October 2020 14: 09
    +3
    We didn't even really see the original in a normal translation. What for? It is necessary to "quote and cite". Is there an expression "almost the entire crew died in 90 seconds"? And there is a phrase "... I felt powerless from the inability to help this second." But about "roach" literally. Well, how else? Wrestlers with the Closest, Tula them in a swing. And logic is not needed in the analysis. Well, why count the volume of oxygen, etc.? Somehow, the very idea that the profession of defender of the Motherland is mortally dangerous even in peacetime is already receding into the background. And what about faith in the authorities? And rightly so. In 2 weeks, the rate of infection has doubled. "Antimasochniki" oppose. Well done ... what can I say.
    1. sgapich
      sgapich 5 October 2020 15: 07
      +2
      Quote: sleeve
      ... We didn't even really see the original ...

      The original is here:
      https://clinton.presidentiallibraries.us/items/show/100505
      It is advisable to go through VPN, from Russian IP there may be problems ("Timeout for a response from the site has been exceeded" ERR_CONNECTION_TIMED_OUT).
      Document in PDF format, ≈8MB, 225 pages (there is a "decryption" from 01.1999 to 12.2000, some parts of the "decryption" are closed by censorship).
      1. Fizik M
        Fizik M 5 October 2020 17: 56
        +2
        Quote: sgapich
        The original is here:
        https://clinton.presidentiallibraries.us/items/show/100505
        It is advisable to go through VPN, from Russian IP there may be problems ("Timeout for a response from the site has been exceeded" ERR_CONNECTION_TIMED_OUT).
        Document in PDF format, ≈8MB, 225 pages (there is a "decryption" from 01.1999 to 12.2000, some parts of the "decryption" are closed by censorship).

        good
        Russian IP skips
        the site itself slows down
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 5 October 2020 20: 02
      +5
      Quote: sleeve
      In 2 weeks, the rate of infection has doubled. "Antimasochniki" oppose. Well done ... what can I say.

      Do the masks protect you from something? Why is Khabarovsk not overwhelmed by a wave of coronavirus, why is there no surge in Belarus? After all, both there and there mass gatherings of people without masks?
  • Gloomy skeptic
    Gloomy skeptic 5 October 2020 14: 18
    +1
    Quote: figvam
    Will we ever find out the truth, probably not.

    We'll find out as soon as the time machine is invented !!!
    1. beeper
      beeper 5 October 2020 16: 04
      0
      Quote: Gloomy Skeptic
      Quote: figvam
      Will we ever find out the truth, probably not.

      We'll find out as soon as the time machine is invented !!!

      hi Even without the future "time machine (which will undoubtedly be created)", even greater Omniscience (including the scientific and technical prerequisites for creating a "time machine") will provide methods of reliable conscious access to the Universal Information Field (there are no "secrets" there) no, everything conceivable and inconceivable [past, present and future!] is already known!), to which we are all subconsciously attached! yes
      The only question is which country will be the first to get hold of this Infinite Knowledge and how will the pioneer country, and then Humanity, act, dispose of this ??!
      After all, this Omniscience, which has become available to everyone, will be followed by the collapse of the foundations of the domination of the current parasitic "elites" and worthless powers that be!
  • nnm
    nnm 5 October 2020 14: 19
    +2
    Honestly, after reading, emotions rolled over, and now I don't even want to write anything.
    Eternal memory to the fallen soldiers and a happy and long life to those who did not wait for their relatives and friends from the campaign.
    And everything else - let it remain on the conscience of those who made the decision. How we ourselves behaved in that situation - no one knows.
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ 5 October 2020 15: 02
      -2
      Quote: nnm
      Honestly, after reading, emotions rolled over, and now I don't even want to write anything.

      yes you've already written enough comments ...
      ps
      emotions turn off the mind ...
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 5 October 2020 20: 07
        +5
        Quote: NEOZ
        yes you've already written enough comments ...

        You write no fewer comments, but the semantic load in them is several times less than that of your opponent. wink
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 7 October 2020 00: 07
          +1
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          You write no fewer comments, but the semantic load in them is several times less than that of your opponent.

          so I don't say that I don't want to write ...
          ps
          if you deliberately distort, then you are a provocateur! and if you think that your comment is logical and consistent ... then my condolences ...
  • ELEZKIY
    ELEZKIY 5 October 2020 14: 25
    10
    Quote: Fizik M
    Putin acted EXTREMELY in that situation
    both as a statesman and as a person

    when was the lie worthy? by tradition, they tried to "silence" the disaster. I listened on the radio every hour - "the location has been established. Communication is being maintained with the boat," then there was nothing to say, they began to mumble, and then many had a bad feeling that someone was a good noodle cook. likewise, the sixth company was not going to be exposed. infa was not leaked by official, so the authorities had to fully disclose. we do not know everything about Syria yet .... yes, there are a thousand of these events! under any government, in principle, they try to "close" the jambs, no matter how open it declares itself. living in truth is very difficult, and not stealing anything
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 34
      +2
      Quote: ELEZKIY
      the sixth company was not going to be exposed. not official infa leaked,

      yes not "leaked", but published
      forensic report ...
      Quote: ELEZKIY
      when was the lie worthy? by tradition, they tried to "silence" the disaster. I listened on the radio every hour - "the location is established. The connection with the boat is maintained", then there was nothing to say, they began to mumble

      this is "ardent greetings to Dygalo and Co"
      and now compare how it was with "Losharik", where at the beginning there was also "indistinct chewing and denial", but then both Shoigu and Putin spoke clearly and comprehensively
    2. NEOZ
      NEOZ 5 October 2020 15: 03
      -3
      Quote: ELEZKIY
      when was the lie worthy?

      and what, usually, was / is worthy?
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 26
    +6
    Quote: nnm
    These are members of military families. And everyone knows that the father may not return home.

    don't know well
    for example, these - EXACTLY DO NOT KNOW
    Example 2 (Northern Fleet diesel submarine). In the photo of the Guardian of the Baltic newspaper, “corsairs of the ocean depths,” trying to equip regeneration in dirty and greasy Chinese gloves, are trying to arrange an explosion and a fire in the torpedo room. Deck above - ammunition, incl. oxygen torpedoes 53-65K!

    The garbage in the background (boxes and drying socks) is not only an indicator of extremely low "marine culture", but also a direct prerequisite for clogging of the receiving kingston and the impossibility of irrigating the ammunition "around the ring"!
    I repeat, the question is not to these sailors (they were simply not taught), but to an extremely low level of officers, and their superiors, who saw this photo and did not notice the roughest prerequisites for the catastrophe.
    Note: Oxygen standards in the “Battle Watch” photo are outdated, canceled as one of the “Komsomolets lessons” (apparently forgotten, despite the fact that it was the increased oxygen content in the feed compartments that caused the intense fire at Komsomolets).

    https://topwar.ru/156337-kuda-bezhit-admiral-evmenov.html

    like their bosses
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 5 October 2020 14: 31
    +2
    Quote: nnm
    Or, what did you expect a foreign journalist to retell the course of the investigation?

    Or to tell the truth, the US has sunk the nuclear submarine and has not paid yet. "Ashes of Kursk" knocks in my heart. (The Legend of Til)
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 5 October 2020 14: 36
      +1
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      Or to tell the truth, the US has sunk the nuclear submarine and has not paid yet. "Ashes of Kursk" knocks in my heart. (The Legend of Til)

      Even the tone of the published transcript indirectly indicates this ..
      I think you have faced some serious criticism. But it always happens

      Why would Clinton tell you how it happens in such cases ..
      I am also inclined to the version that it was not without the United States or a NATO submarine ..
      1. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 5 October 2020 14: 48
        +5
        Quote: Svarog
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        Or to tell the truth, the US has sunk the nuclear submarine and has not paid yet. "Ashes of Kursk" knocks in my heart. (The Legend of Til)

        Even the tone of the published transcript indirectly indicates this ..
        I think you have faced some serious criticism. But it always happens

        Why would Clinton tell you how it happens in such cases ..
        I am also inclined to the version that it was not without the United States or a NATO submarine ..

        When the Turks shot down our plane, there was no World War III. Why does everyone consider a possible incident with an American boat something out of the ordinary?
  • askort154
    askort154 5 October 2020 14: 46
    -3
    Excerpt from the official conclusion of the commission of inquiry:
    The reason for the death of the K-141 Kursk in 2000 was the explosion of the 65-76 PV torpedo, serial number 1336 A (Kit).
    This tragedy was a tremendous blow to all normal residents of the country, including the president, who was just starting his career. And at the same time it became - the reason for "criticism" for spiteful critics and Russophobes, zealously propagating conjectures and fakes, their false concerns. As they say, they staged a dance on the bones.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 52
      +6
      Quote: askort154
      After that, it was removed from service, as not reliable (it was equipped with hydrogen peroxide)

      Monsieur, throw out YOUR training manual
      SUMMARY "unreliability" 65-76 is a consequence of the use of a short-life two-component pump (from missiles), the resource of which was not enough for SEVERAL PRACTICAL shots (but which was not intended to be replaced)
      on BATTLE - there was no such problem
      1. ANB
        ANB 5 October 2020 16: 28
        0
        With 298, the problem was different.
        1. We ran out of good peroxide
        2. We had to constantly monitor the state of peroxide. Moreover, if there were all the devices on the pl, then the person on duty had to be put on the TTB for control.
        And the plant remained in Alma-Ata.
        Everyone got tired of this, so 298 was removed for this case.
        1. Fizik M
          Fizik M 5 October 2020 16: 53
          +2
          Quote: ANB
          Moreover, if there were all devices on the pl

          "there are nuances"
          I once had a leak (from the control and degassing system) for 8 products at once ...
          well the fighters were trained by an experienced foreman of the team
          1. ANB
            ANB 5 October 2020 19: 03
            +1
            Oh yo. In the 90s we have 8 298 pieces per object and have never given them out. One, maximum 2 pieces. This is what you had a crunch. I sympathize. But they coped and nothing exploded.
            1. Fizik M
              Fizik M 5 October 2020 19: 14
              +1
              Quote: ANB
              This is what you had a crunch.

              yes, in fact, a full-time BC, at the Pacific Fleet 298A they were operated normally
              by the way, about the "night show" from 298A on the "Orel" (or "Smolensk" ???) "to 141" not just heard, but "well-read" - the reaction was - "and they did not try to open the OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS?!?!?"
              Quote: ANB
              But they coped and nothing exploded.

              coped (columns, pressure from RO was removed quickly)
              and what is there to explode? although "white pillars of smoke" (paint peroxide) on the torpedo were
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 5 October 2020 14: 48
    +2
    Quote: ROSS 42
    with the opinion of other officials, speaks for itself.


    tell me, and if we "accidentally hit" with a full salvo of "Malachites" at the US AVA (which almost happened somehow in the mid-70s), then the US was obliged "in response" to "sink" Kiev "with" Moscow " and "Leningrad" to boot?
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 5 October 2020 15: 10
    +6
    it would be better if they declassified the logs "Toledo" and "Memphis"
    1. ANB
      ANB 6 October 2020 17: 30
      0
      Yes, the text of our BRs for Kursk has not been published either.
      In, I remembered how the peroxide for 298 was called correctly - product 030.
  • Dimy4
    Dimy4 5 October 2020 15: 37
    -3
    The authorities were waiting for all the submariners to die so that no one would know the whole truth.
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 5 October 2020 15: 45
      +6
      Quote: Dimy4
      The authorities were waiting for all the submariners to die so that no one would know the whole truth.

      Yeah
      "Putin personally" (in scuba gear) "equipped" them with B64 in the RDU ...
  • The Siberian barber
    The Siberian barber 5 October 2020 16: 26
    +2
    Who is to blame, he knows, although personalities are not appropriate here
    This is the quintessence of what was happening, everywhere!
  • north 2
    north 2 5 October 2020 17: 06
    +1
    the article does not say that Meduza discovered this transcript of the conversation between Putin and Clinton, which has been freely available in Clinton's digital library since August last year. Prior to that, this information was classified. Two conclusions can be drawn from this.
    The first is the question of why America, which frightened Americans with the secrecy of conversations between Trump and Putin, published a conversation between Putin and Clinton, the content of which was not intended for knowledge
    to the general public and was even a state secret of America, as long as it was classified.
    Is it because to show Trump that you will not negotiate with Putin about anything, because we
    we will publish even any conversations and Putin will not want to negotiate with you, considering you a yap. And America doesn't care about tact, decency and the ethics of international diplomacy.
    The second conclusion is that it is hard to believe that none of the media resources have discovered until today
    of this transcript in the Clinton digital library. Found, most likely, but did not want to be
    peeping through the door lock hole. And, of course, the State Department itself
    The United States was ashamed to publish such information, but it should be published in order to remind and show Trump what awaits him after face-to-face conversations with Putin. And then they found, or found "Medusa".
    This one, as well as "RAIN" feeds on any carrion, will look into any hole in the door lock, will
    rummage in any other people's underwear ...
    And by the way, Putin, as soon as he came to power after the Yeltsin mess, had nothing of the kind in
    This conversation with Clinton did not tell the Russians to rebel. But America was disgraced by opening to
    access what the Presidents talked about face to face ...
  • Maz
    Maz 5 October 2020 19: 41
    0
    Quote: Fizik M
    Quote: Maz
    As far as I know, the Kursk topic is purely humanly forbidden among all submariners and sailors. Unwritten law, rule

    what the hell?!?!

    Well, how can I explain, all the holy great martyrs who perished, who accepted death for the fierce Fatherland, and they understood it, and the sailors who survived so much the more. In general, the soldiers, who did not spare their belly, perished for their homeland. And it doesn't matter why. Redemption, like Christ on the cross, for those who are left to live. And to use their names, titles, mentions, information, in general to touch on this topic is sacrilege, which neither God, nor the devil, nor people will forgive forever and ever. And the names of the crew members are in the calendar forever. Crooked of course explained, as well as he could. Yes, I was probably mistaken, the topic is not forbidden, it is sacred and touching it is not gut for any military man, like the memory of the grandfathers of those who died in the Second World War ..
  • Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 5 October 2020 20: 27
    0
    Why did you suddenly remember the Kursk?
    Walking on the seas, in general, is such a thing ... And the military, even more so.
    Sorry for some cynicism, but any military sailor should be aware of / the officer, especially where he came, and how it all can end at any time.
    Therefore, I never wanted to serve in the navy.
    Although, in my specialty, I thought that I would get there. what
    1. Fizik M
      Fizik M 5 October 2020 21: 18
      +1
      Quote: Benzorez
      Walking on the seas, in general, is such a thing ... And the military, even more so.
      Sorry for some cynicism, but any military sailor should be aware of / the officer, especially where he came, and how it all can end at any time.

      Yes, sure
  • Fizik M
    Fizik M 5 October 2020 21: 21
    0
    Quote: Maz
    Atonement, like Christ on the cross, for those who are left to live

    as they say - "no comments" (I do not discuss the THEOLOGY, but for CASE - enough facts for reflection are given)
  • GUSAR
    GUSAR 5 October 2020 21: 29
    -1
    His presidency began with "Kursk" ... In general, as you meet him, you will spend
  • reader65
    reader65 6 October 2020 01: 15
    0
    Quote: Fizik M
    Quote: stels_07
    "Energy source" for 1/6 of the land was produced?

    no, of course

    That is, the Americans still banged Kursk ...
    Well then, in 100 years descendants will learn the truth, but we will not.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • sentaniel
    sentaniel 6 October 2020 17: 33
    -1
    Quote: Rudkovsky
    Therefore, they were allowed to work only when they were sure that everyone on board was dead.

    What nonsense you are. You were told almost the whole truth in the last dock movie, including the admiral. They first found amers' boat giving an automatic SOS signal, not Kursk. When Kursk was found on board, no one was alive, since an oxygen generator exploded in the last compartment, which, incidentally, was also shown in the American feature film about Kursk. Only in the film did the Americans keep silent about what caused the torpedo explosion on board Kursk.
  • sentaniel
    sentaniel 6 October 2020 17: 44
    -1

    That is, the Americans still banged Kursk ...

    They did not crash, but collided and lay down on the bottom and lost part of the crew. As a result, just a collision, the emergency hatch of the rear compartments and jammed. And the emergency buoy was proportioned and it sank. The impact detonated a torpedo in the vehicle. Kursk banked to the bottom. After hitting the bottom, the entire bk detonated. Then you probably already know.
    1. timokhin-aa
      timokhin-aa 7 October 2020 11: 35
      0
      Do not tell tales.
  • chingachguc
    chingachguc 6 October 2020 22: 18
    +2
    in fact, it is against the rules to publish negotiations or correspondence of current (and even living) officials. After this, no one will be frank. How is it possible to have any kind of conversation with balabols in government posts?
  • Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 7 October 2020 13: 40
    0
    At that time we did not have any submarine life-saving equipment of the required class. Somewhere, something remained, but the delivery of this something to the place and, most importantly, bringing it into working order took many weeks. To throw people into the sea in a bathyscaphe, which had been lying around for thirty years in a warehouse, means simply to sentence its crew. Putin really could not do something.