Military Review

Combat Su-57s will surprise American military experts. RAND Center Survey Results

136

Joining the recent Exploration my colleague Kirill Ryabov and carefully analyzed the analytical material Russia's Su-57 Heavy Fighter Bomber: Is It Really a Fifth-Generation Aircraft? ("Russian heavy fighter-bomber Su-57: is it really a 5th generation aircraft?"), Prepared for the American RAND research center by so-called military experts Ryan Bauer and Peter Wilson, I have come to the final conclusion that a low level of professional competence is characteristic not only of ordinary journalists of numerous overseas military analytical publications, but also of well-known personalities in the American media space, whose analytical activities are the subject of increased interest as the headquarters of leading military-industrial corporations and non-profit research organizations at the Pentagon and research laboratories under the command of the US Air Force and Navy.


In particular, summing up my very superficial (without specifying indices and parameters of onboard complexes and sensors) comparative review of the element base of weapons control systems (SUV), airborne defense systems (BKO) and other architecture of avionics of the promising multifunctional Su-57 fighter, deeply improved the tactical fighter of the 4 ++ generation F-15CX / EX, as well as the 5th generation fighter F-35A, Bauer and Wilson made a number of technical mistakes that turned their analytical material into a completely biased opus, which in no way affects the level of prestige PJSC "Company" Sukhoi "in general, or on the competitiveness of" fifty-seventh "in particular.

So, as a key tactical and technical flaw, allegedly causing the scarcity of the "information field" of the Su-57 pilots and the inability of all-round monitoring of the aerospace for the sudden appearance of such threats as approaching missiles and air combat missiles with passive optical-electronic seeker ( operating in the IR / TV ranges and a photocontrast sighting channel), as well as the inability to covertly monitor the surface / ground sections of the theater of operations, Bauer and Wilson called the lack of a proper range of integrated optoelectronic systems for detecting attacking missiles that survey the airspace in the lateral and rear hemispheres , as well as a multispectral optical-location sighting complex of the lower hemisphere. Based on this statement, which is a gross technical error, the authors of the above opus underestimated the projected defensive and strike potential of the serial Su-57 to the level of the American modernized multipurpose tactical fighter F-15EX, the architecture of the optical-electronic means of which is many times more scarce than that of the 5- th generation of the "Lightning II" family (F-35A / B / C).

The multi-vector optical-electronic appearance of the Su-57 will be a key help in maintaining combat stability in air battles of the XXI century


Obviously, Mr. Bauer and his colleague Peter Wilson had no idea that starting from the eighth flight prototype of the 2nd stage (T-50-9, w / n 509), all pre-production copies of the Su-57 are equipped with integrated multispectral optical-electronic complexes 101KS "Atoll", serially produced by the production association "Ural Optical and Mechanical Plant" named after E.S. Yalamov. Complexes of this type are represented by an aperture of an all-angle view distributed over the Su-57 airframe of 10 optoelectronic modules (sensors), distributed into 4 groups, each of which is assigned to a corresponding subsystem (optoelectronic reconnaissance / target designation, detection / suppression of attacking missiles or aerobatics at night in the terrain enveloping mode.


The 101KS-U attack missile detection subsystem has two twin KS-U / 02 (located in the lower generatrix of the nose of the fuselage and between the upper contours of the engine nacelles) and two monoblock KS-U / 01 (located in the side generators of the gargrotto, behind the cockpit) optical electronic modules with 6 identical lenses and high-resolution ultraviolet matrix photodetectors, providing all-aspect detection of heat-contrast objects at a considerable distance from the carrier. Based on the maximum structural similarity of the UV modules of the 101KS-U subsystem with the sensors of the attack missile detection station (SOAR) integrated into the avionics of an experimental prototype of the MiG-35 multifunctional fighter (w / n 154), one can come to the conclusion that the tactical and technical parameters of both subsystems are approximately equal.

In particular, the KS-U / 01/02 sensors operating in the ultraviolet range of sight are able to detect (by UV radiation from solid propellant rocket torches) and carry out a "tie-in" of medium / long-range anti-aircraft missiles, as well as air-to-air missiles on distance of 40-50 and 30-40 km, respectively. This bearing distance will be quite sufficient not only for the Su-57 pilot to carry out an anti-missile maneuver, but also for the 101KS-U subsystem to issue the azimuth and elevation coordinates of attacking missiles in advance, which can subsequently be transmitted to the fighter's weapons control system via the MIL- STD-1553B, and then loaded into inertial navigation units of RVV-SD / "Product 180" or RVV-MD (R-74) air combat missiles, adapted to intercept enemy anti-aircraft missiles and air combat missiles due to the presence of highly sensitive short-wave and medium-wave infrared and active radar seeker. As you can see, the 101KS-U subsystem has a full range of parameters for carrying out the carrier's defense against heat-contrast air attack means, in no way inferior to the American AN / AAQ-37 DAS attack missile detection stations with a distributed aperture installed on 5th generation F multipurpose fighters. -35A / B / C.

An equally important defensive subsystem of the 101KS Atoll complex is the subsystem for detecting and optoelectronic suppression of missiles and missiles with infrared seeker 101KS-O, represented by two turret optoelectronic modules, opto-transparent fairings of which are located on the lower generatrix of the fuselage nose (under the cockpit ) and on the upper generatrix of the gargrot (directly behind the cockpit canopy). Each optoelectronic module has an infrared direction finder with a matrix photodetector, as well as a laser unit paired with it to “blind” the photodetectors of the seeker heads of enemy attacking missiles. Neither the stealthy multirole fighters of the F-35A / B / C line, nor even the more advanced tactical fighters of the transitional generation F-15EX, have such an impressive range of onboard defense subsystems to this day.

The key component of the 101KS Atoll integrated multispectral optoelectronic complex in performing the tasks of covert detection of air targets and optoelectronic reconnaissance of enemy targets (without revealing its own location) is the 101KS-B subsystem, represented by a deeply improved turret 3-band quantum optical location station OLS-50M, installed in front of the cockpit canopy, as well as the 101KS-N suspended container optical-electronic sighting system. When operating in the long-wave infrared range, the OLS-50M module is capable of detecting infrared radiation from the jet jet of the TRDDF fighter of the Typhoon type at a distance of 50-60 km (at maximum mode in the forward hemisphere) and 80-100 km in the PPS and when the engines switch to afterburner operating mode; the detection range into the rear hemisphere (ZPS) in the afterburner mode can reach 130-170 km.

Suspended optoelectronic module 101KS-N, operating in television, low-level television and medium-, long-wave infrared ranges, is intended for detailed monitoring of the ground and surface sections of the theater of operations for the operation of armored vehicles, artillery, radio reconnaissance equipment, as well as surface boats and ships enemy (with different displacement) with the ability to identify them both in the daytime and at night. This module (as well as the electronic-optical complex EOTS of the F-35A fighter) fully complements the optical-electronic architecture of the Russian fifth generation Su-5 fighter, saturating the pilot's "information field" with comprehensive data on the tactical situation in the theater.
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  1. figwam
    figwam 6 October 2020 05: 34
    +7
    Rumors have it that the serial could take off this week.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 6 October 2020 06: 26
      16
      Rumor has it that elephants have learned to fly ... thanks to our military who keep the secrets of new technology like the apple of their eye ... I would like more unexpected surprises for our enemies in a future war.
      1. atalef
        atalef 6 October 2020 06: 38
        +9
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        Rumor has it that elephants have learned to fly

        Rumor has it that Damantsev will start issuing 3 articles a week.
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 6 October 2020 06: 42
          17
          Everything can be smile therefore, we must rely on verified facts ... of which there are not many in our audience yet ... a lot is classified, it is forbidden to make public and find out anything reliably impossible.
          And if you wish, you can write articles as much as your imagination allows.
          I wish Damantsev endless inspiration in this field ... not every forum member is capable of this.
          1. atalef
            atalef 6 October 2020 06: 49
            -4
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            Everything may be therefore it is necessary to rely on verified facts ... of which there are still few presented in our audience ... a lot is classified, it is forbidden to make public and find out anything reliably impossible.

            well Damantsev knows wink
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            I wish Damantsev endless inspiration in this field ... not every forum member is capable of this.

            1. Same lech
              Same lech 6 October 2020 06: 54
              0
              But how interesting ... life is in full swing ... boils with bright colors.
              Of course, I would like to read departmental literature under the stamp of particle board and Secret, I'm not talking about secrets of extreme importance ... but alas, mere mortals are not supposed to know this. smile ... as they say, you know the less you sleep better.
              1. nickname7
                nickname7 11 October 2020 09: 36
                0
                I would like to read departmental literature classified as particle board

                This is not at all necessary to read, the main thing is when SU57 enters the units en masse and begins to serve, when planes fly en masse in the sky, then you can be sure that our rear is strong.
                And to read the layout documentation is empty.
      2. Lipchanin
        Lipchanin 6 October 2020 07: 23
        +3
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        .Thanks to our military keeping the secrets of new technology like the apple of an eye ..

        That's what, but we know how to secret
        1. novel66
          novel66 6 October 2020 12: 28
          +2
          and this is very correct!
          1. Lipchanin
            Lipchanin 6 October 2020 12: 39
            +6
            Quote: novel xnumx
            and this is very correct!

            But sometimes it comes to insanity
            I will never forget when the launches were carried out under the Interkosmos program, we were dressed in a "sand robe"
            A beret, a jacket like hospital pajamas, pants and sandals. All this is sandy color. Although the whole world knew who worked at "Baikonur"
            Briefing when the Soyuz Apollo program was running
            To the question who do you work, you must answer "I am a junior researcher of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR"
            Salary from 140 to 160 rubles.
            And now imagine a picture.
            Checking. They go to the barracks. The orderly sits on the bedside table with "Belomorina" in his teeth. Well, like he's not a day
            When asked who you are, there was a brave answer.
            "Duty administrator for KAZARMA junior researcher ..."
            I didn't have time to tell the whole story. The commission whinnied so that the windows rattled ...
            1. tolancop
              tolancop 6 October 2020 14: 18
              +2
              Quote: Lipchanin
              Quote: novel xnumx
              and this is very correct!

              But sometimes it comes to insanity ...


              I agree. And it's not so much and not only in insanity. Protection of secrets, it costs money and not small. And here, by tradition, they secret what the whole world already knows ... As a result, we have: unnecessary costs; troubles and inconveniences when working with long-term "secrets", etc. And in the end, the next Bakatin will hand over everything that was guarded with such difficulty and insanity.
              1. Lipchanin
                Lipchanin 6 October 2020 14: 22
                0
                Quote: tolancop
                troubles and inconveniences when working with long-gone "secrets", etc.

                About that, in general, a separate conversation
                And here, by tradition, they secret what the whole world already knows ...

                Amerskiye newspapers wrote that in MIC we have good, clean, comfortable and smell of paint
                A subtle hint that the show is again
        2. tolancop
          tolancop 6 October 2020 14: 12
          +1
          Quote: Lipchanin
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          .Thanks to our military keeping the secrets of new technology like the apple of an eye ..

          That's what, but we know how to secret


          Blurting out what should have been silent, alas, too ...
          1. Lipchanin
            Lipchanin 6 October 2020 14: 14
            0
            Well, not without it, of course.
            After all, you must show your awareness
      3. vVvAD
        vVvAD 6 October 2020 18: 11
        -1
        No need for wars. Let them continue to rage in impotent rage, devoured by phobias and cancer.
      4. 1976AG
        1976AG 7 October 2020 13: 30
        0
        Quote: The same Lech
        Rumor has it that elephants have learned to fly ... thanks to our military who keep the secrets of new technology like the apple of their eye ... I would like more unexpected surprises for our enemies in a future war.

        What the military will keep silent about, Damantsev will publish)
      5. Varaga
        Varaga 9 October 2020 04: 14
        0
        I would like more unexpected surprises for our enemies in a future war.

        I wish there was no war. I think that it will not be - the Americans "ride" until they have multiple advantages.
    2. stas
      stas 6 October 2020 09: 55
      +5
      On TV, the Star can tell even more rumors, which is not always true!
  2. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 6 October 2020 05: 40
    19
    Why make excuses and prove something to someone, you need to write an article "Is the F35 an aircraft of the 5th generation" and conclusions, arguments, what a srach it would be, Jewish comrades would say hoarsely like this is a magic plane, you see, the article would be published on foreign resources.
    1. vVvAD
      vVvAD 6 October 2020 18: 14
      0
      No, no and NO! Let them calm down - of course they are. Only 5th generations are different wink
    2. peter rusin_2
      peter rusin_2 8 October 2020 10: 32
      0
      And as for me, the FU-35 is truly magical. It is worth - as in a fairy tale, immeasurably.
  3. Avior
    Avior 6 October 2020 06: 00
    12
    ... able to detect (by UV radiation from solid propellant rocket torches) and carry out smile along the tracks "medium / long-range anti-aircraft missiles, as well as air-to-air missiles at a distance of 40-50 and 30-40 km, respectively.

    It looks like Damantsev is confident that the engines of medium and long-range anti-aircraft missiles work continuously from the moment of launch until the missile hits the target.
    How to hint to him that this is not entirely true, so as not to upset the person smile
    1. atalef
      atalef 6 October 2020 06: 38
      0
      Quote: Avior
      How to hint to him that this is not entirely true

      Useless.
    2. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 6 October 2020 07: 11
      +6
      And what is wrong? From a greater distance, rockets will not be launched at this aircraft, as if to hint at the effective range so as not to upset you.
      1. Avior
        Avior 6 October 2020 07: 23
        +3
        Right. Long-range missiles are launched exclusively from short-range, while their engine is running. The engine stopped - the rocket fell, is it heavier than air? smile
        And they call them long-range to confuse the enemy.
        I don't know what to do, you have killed my faith in the justice of this world!
        smile
        1. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 6 October 2020 07: 47
          +2
          Sorry I didn't mean to kill your faith. You can continue to believe.
        2. Dodikson
          Dodikson 7 October 2020 11: 21
          0
          rockets are most often launched from a distance of half its maximum range.
          you can even read what rockets and from what distance the Americans were smacking in Iraq.
          1. Avior
            Avior 7 October 2020 11: 25
            0
            Anti-aircraft? Americans? By planes?
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 7 October 2020 14: 04
              0
              rockets air air, amraams in particular.
              1. Avior
                Avior 7 October 2020 22: 22
                0
                I wrote about anti-aircraft guns, actually
      2. yehat2
        yehat2 6 October 2020 10: 18
        +1
        And hint, because this is not such an easy question. How does it change on a catch-up course, how does it change against inconspicuous targets, how does it change if a target such as the moment-29 is nimble and will do it?
        And what is the real range for such simple targets as, for example, the Boeing 737
        1. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 6 October 2020 10: 44
          0
          Here's the best open source answer:
          https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5daad4a0c7e50c00b1294ff0/mojet-li-samolet-uiti-ot-rakety-chast-1-5dafb8e323bf4800b0e52e45
    3. mihail_mihail0620
      mihail_mihail0620 6 October 2020 07: 15
      +3
      Quote: Avior
      How to hint to him that this is not entirely true, so as not to upset the person

      So you tell us about it, many on VO will probably be interested.
      1. Avior
        Avior 6 October 2020 07: 57
        0
        https://missilery.info/missile/standard-6
        The main enemy of the Su-57 long-range
        There is a plate at the bottom with a graph of the operating time for the accelerator and the main engine.
        1. Hexenmeister
          Hexenmeister 6 October 2020 10: 01
          +3
          There is a plate at the bottom with a graph of the operating time for the accelerator and the main engine.
          There's more to it:
          modernized control system with active-semi-active radar homing head
          , so if it doesn't notice the torch at the start, then the illumination will be detected for sure.
          1. Avior
            Avior 6 October 2020 11: 37
            0
            It was specifically about the optical detection of the engine flame
            1. Hexenmeister
              Hexenmeister 6 October 2020 11: 49
              +2
              The situation must be considered as a whole! And if the use of weapons can be detected by other accompanying factors, then the impossibility of detecting the launching torch of such a missile is not a disadvantage of the aircraft as a whole!
              1. Avior
                Avior 6 October 2020 12: 38
                0
                The point is that the article did not take into account all the factors
                Only the optical detection aspect was considered
        2. Cyril G ...
          Cyril G ... 10 October 2020 22: 29
          +1
          So they won't see him from afar either
          1. Avior
            Avior 10 October 2020 23: 08
            +1
            If in optics, will they see the launch for 200 km within 6 seconds?
            1. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 10 October 2020 23: 12
              +1
              And who will be able to detect it for 200 km of radar?
    4. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 6 October 2020 07: 27
      +4
      Quote: Avior
      It looks like Damantsev is confident that the engines of medium and long-range anti-aircraft missiles work continuously from the moment of launch until the missile hits the target.

      Do you think that they no longer work at a distance of 40 km?
      as well as air-to-air missiles at a distance of 40-50 and 30-40 km, respectively.
      1. Herman 4223
        Herman 4223 6 October 2020 07: 54
        +5
        In the front hemisphere, the radar will see an attacking missile well, and much further than forty kilometers. But in pursuit of it from such a distance, they will vryatli start launching, the rocket simply will not have time to catch up with the car or will catch up with it already at the end, when the simplest maneuver will allow it to be dropped.
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 6 October 2020 07: 55
          0
          So I mean it. I just didn't go into detail
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 6 October 2020 08: 01
            +3
            And some simply believe that missiles will be fired from a hundred or two hundred kilometers away. And nothing else.
            1. Lipchanin
              Lipchanin 6 October 2020 08: 05
              +1
              Quote: Herman 4223
              And some simply believe that missiles will be fired from a hundred or two hundred kilometers away.

              Well if the current is rocket-blind
            2. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 10 October 2020 22: 30
              +1
              In reality, according to the experience of recent wars and conflicts, RVV was used from a distance of 0.3-0.4 x maximum Dpuska. And then they regularly smeared
              1. Herman 4223
                Herman 4223 12 October 2020 09: 54
                0
                The record for the range of destruction is thirty-odd kilometers. He is with a Belgian pilot from an F16 plane. It was in the 90s.
                And so throughout the Cold War, the United States and its allies shot down 4 planes outside of visual visibility. 6% of the missiles hit the target!
        2. 2 Level Advisor
          2 Level Advisor 6 October 2020 08: 09
          0
          so we are not talking about the radar, but about the optical system .. 40 km - I think for ideal conditions, which never happens .. what if the clouds? despite the fact that the rocket engine really does not work all the time? no .. the system is good that there is such a .. but it is not a panacea .. for any 5 generation, even Su, even Fu ..
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 6 October 2020 08: 25
            +3
            In the rear hemisphere (in dogon) forty kilometers, this is at the limit of the launch range of the same AIM-120. The rocket launch will be closer, and the rocket engine will shut off at an even closer range. In the front hemisphere, the missile will be detected by the radar and the OLS at a much greater distance.
        3. Avior
          Avior 6 October 2020 12: 31
          +1
          Between the front hemisphere and the rear there are intermediate options, in which the radar will do little to help
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 6 October 2020 12: 38
            +2
            For the su-57, this problem was solved by the side radars, the su-30 has a 300 ° field of view due to the turnover. And the OLS has a larger field of view than the radar.
            1. Avior
              Avior 6 October 2020 13: 40
              +1
              The detection range of a Doppler radar is a highly variable value, and depends on the speeds and vectors of movement of the aircraft and the target.
              Because of this, it is impossible to say from what range and from what angle the radar will detect an incoming missile
              The fact that the radar has the ability to turn does not mean that it scans all the available space all the time, and the range of the side radars is much shorter than the main one.
              The same is with the OLS.
              1. Hexenmeister
                Hexenmeister 6 October 2020 14: 54
                +1
                Doppler radar detection range - highly variable
                In fact, everything is simpler, why detect a rocket that flies from you, or about you, but you are not its target ??? She will not do anything to you, you will not find her ... well, it's okay! But if you are its target, then there will be a pure attack "towards" and the detection range will not change much!
                1. Avior
                  Avior 6 October 2020 17: 05
                  0
                  And if not in pure form for a meeting? What about overlapping courses? And if she trusted at some point?
                  1. Hexenmeister
                    Hexenmeister 6 October 2020 18: 00
                    +1
                    You did not understand a little, if the rocket flies at you, then from the direction of the rocket's movement, the total approach speed will be equal to the sum of the projection of your speed on this direction and the speed of the rocket itself. Given the much higher speed of the rocket (than the plane), the resulting Doppler shift of the signal reflected from the rocket will be outside the zone of reflections from the underlying surface, ideal detection conditions for a Doppler radar !!!
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 6 October 2020 18: 56
                      +1
                      If the rocket flies at an angle to your course, cutting across from the rear hemisphere, then the speed of convergence between the aircraft and the rocket will be relatively low, especially if the range is large enough and the speed of the rocket has become comparable to the speed of the aircraft
                      In this case, the detection range will drop sharply.
                      If it is found at all.
                      1. Hexenmeister
                        Hexenmeister 6 October 2020 20: 15
                        +1
                        At the speed of the aircraft, the air-to-air missile from the rear hemisphere is unlikely to catch up with it at all, and it will not be able to stay in the air, unless, of course, vertically upward with the engine running.
              2. Ali
                Ali 6 October 2020 17: 30
                +1
                Quote: Avior
                Detection range Doppler radar is a highly variable value, and depends on the speeds and vectors of movement of the aircraft and the target.
                Because of this, it is impossible to say from what range and from what angle the radar will detect an incoming missile

                Avior (Sergey). You are a little wrong. And how does it affect over-periodic change in repetition rate probing pulses? This is the solution to all your questions ... Depends no detection range, blind speed .
                1. Avior
                  Avior 6 October 2020 19: 01
                  0
                  The detection range depends on the mutual speed of approach.
                  If at an angle, then from the angle.
                  1. Hexenmeister
                    Hexenmeister 6 October 2020 20: 30
                    +1
                    But there is no need to simplify, there are many factors, and you can easily name a set of conditions under which the detection range will not depend on the speed of approach or on the angles.
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 6 October 2020 21: 17
                      0
                      There are many factors
                      Not clear-cut numbers, as you can see here
            2. Cyril G ...
              Cyril G ... 10 October 2020 22: 32
              +1
              Quote: Herman 4223
              , Su-30 has a 300 ° field of view due to

              240 degrees, not? Plus or minus 60 degrees. And another 60 degrees. due to mechanical turning of the grate
              1. Herman 4223
                Herman 4223 12 October 2020 09: 57
                0
                240 ° is a snow leopard. But they write about the leopard 300 °.
        4. Ali
          Ali 6 October 2020 17: 50
          -2
          Quote: Herman 4223
          In the front hemisphere, the radar will see an attacking missile well, and much further than forty kilometers.

          The N036 "Belka" Su-57 radar will detect an attacking missile with an average minimum
          EOC = 0,01 m2 at a distance of D = 126,491 km in free space according to open press data.
          1. Herman 4223
            Herman 4223 6 October 2020 18: 29
            +1
            Did the characteristics of a protein be laid out somewhere? The RCS of such missiles seems to be slightly more than 0,01, figures of 0,05 and higher came across.
      2. Avior
        Avior 6 October 2020 11: 51
        +2
        May work, may not
        Depending on the launch range, the number of stages and the type of rocket engine
        If the dual-mode, for example, may turn on closer
        But the solid propellant engine does not run constantly over the entire range.
      3. Avior
        Avior 6 October 2020 12: 42
        0
        It depends on what it was originally
        There is a belief that the engine works, if it does not hit this range, then of course it does not work
        Previously, they had dual-mode engines, in this case it turned on after the capture of the seeker, now single-mode
        But in general, I wrote about anti-aircraft missiles, and not air-to-air
        1. g1washntwn
          g1washntwn 6 October 2020 14: 06
          +1
          Quote: Avior
          Previously, they had dual-mode engines, in this case it turned on after the capture of the seeker, now single-mode

          Which missiles are they? Before the modification of the C-120, the AIM-7 had WPU-6 / B from Hercules / Aerojet.
          On the C-7 with an increased range, the dual-mode one is simply longer, "I was not noticed in discrediting relations with the ramjet engine." Single-mode for medium and long-range missiles is now bad manners.
          1. Avior
            Avior 6 October 2020 16: 33
            +1
            It came across that in the D version to increase the range.
            1. g1washntwn
              g1washntwn 7 October 2020 07: 28
              +1
              Quote: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/aim-120-amraam-projects.127/page-2
              A development of the earlier AIM-120C, AIM-120D (P3I Phase 4, formerly known as AIM-120C-8) retains the same PN G672798-1 Plus 5 solid propellant rocket motor of the AIM-120C-5 and C-7 variants.

              ... however, they write only about the revision of the "brains", the capacity is the same as on the C-5 and C-7. Perhaps you are confusing it with some kind of experiments at the development stages, there are no single-mode ones in the series and in projects for the near future.
              Proofs in the studio.
              1. Avior
                Avior 7 October 2020 09: 23
                0
                Searched, did not find this mention now.
                It was about, as far as I remember, that both parts of the engine are triggered immediately one after the other, in principle, this can be done by reprogramming the brain without changing the engine itself.
                There was even some kind of speed diagram.
                But this was not official information, I do not insist that everything is so, maybe it was experimental.
                Actually, the fact that the engines are dual-mode, just dramatically reduces the aircraft's ability to disrupt an attack with an anti-missile maneuver, the second part adds energy to the rocket, and the fact that the inclusion of the second part of the engine is determined by sensors will help the aircraft so-so.
                hi
                1. g1washntwn
                  g1washntwn 7 October 2020 09: 46
                  0
                  Quote: Avior
                  There was even some kind of speed diagram.

                  Exactly. Different heights and ranges determine the algorithm for triggering the modes. This increases the total range. The same "eco-mode" serves to save fuel for acceleration in the terminal, since during burnout and even when shooting "from top to bottom" inertia alone is not enough. Single-mode turbojet engines are ineffective when increasing the range to the target. As you wrote:
                  Quote: Avior
                  They used to have dual-mode motors, in this case, it turned on after the capture of the seeker, now single mode

                  Not true. Even MBDA Meteor uses different modes for different parts of the trajectory, no one is in a hurry to return to the past.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 7 October 2020 10: 00
                    +1
                    I will find that message - I will write what the matter was
    5. Operator
      Operator 6 October 2020 10: 54
      +2
      The distance of visibility of the ultraviolet radiation of the American AIM-120D engine torch is quite sufficient (90 km) for the Su-57 sensors to detect it in the active section of the trajectory. In the case of poor visibility in the optical range, the radar seeker of the missile turns on, which all the more unambiguously unmasks it at any distance.

      Another thing is that the maximum flight distance of the Russian RVV BD with radio command guidance after OUT is 150 km - that's what the UV / radio emission sensors F-22 and F-35 do not see until they hit the target laughing
    6. ole1
      ole1 6 October 2020 11: 49
      +2
      well, as if at the European Meteor they work all the time. So, the great damants are right)
      1. Avior
        Avior 6 October 2020 13: 42
        +2
        Others do not.
        But there is little sense in this - the Meteor is easier to detect due to the engine's expense, but for the same reason, it is much more difficult to get away from it
  4. Holsten
    Holsten 6 October 2020 06: 05
    0
    American experts are not worth the surprise. If it’s better to present it this way right away for the goals that have been waiting in anticipation, they will appreciate it better.
  5. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 6 October 2020 06: 15
    +9
    Avior
    How to hint to him that this is not entirely true, so as not to upset the person
    And you hint without hesitation, because Damantsev has never read this about his articles.
    I will support the above written by Pessimest22 that really why not, as if by accident, express doubts about the F-35 belonging to the 5th generation aircraft? If there is an information war going on, it should be offensive from our side. And it doesn't matter whether it is so or not, the main thing is to throw doubts about this.
    1. Avior
      Avior 6 October 2020 06: 48
      0
      Meaning?
      Our own people are already convinced of this, but others will not read.
  6. mihail_mihail0620
    mihail_mihail0620 6 October 2020 07: 04
    0
    Here Eugene, all military secrets gave away.
  7. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 6 October 2020 07: 05
    0
    Suspended optoelectronic module 101KS-N,


    Why doesn't it complement Su30sm?
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 6 October 2020 11: 21
      +1
      Quote: Zaurbek
      does not complement Su30cm?

      Because OCD Atoll (101KS) - complex for the Su-57.
      The Su-30MKM is equipped with an OLS-30I and a helmet-mounted Sura. About the fact that container OLS are not used on modifications without their own OLS ... and who told you that?
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 6 October 2020 11: 34
        0
        Written in the article ...
        1. g1washntwn
          g1washntwn 6 October 2020 12: 01
          +1
          Quote: Zaurbek
          Written in the article ...

          In which? There is no such thing in this one.
          101KS is purely for the T-50. On the Su-34, the T220 is being tested, so the Su-30 will most likely be able to. A 101KS-N makes sense only in a comprehensive modernization, which is much more expensive than fine-tuning the avionics before using the same T220.
  8. Bez 310
    Bez 310 6 October 2020 07: 23
    0
    The expression "Combat Su-57" seems premature to me.
  9. Ros 56
    Ros 56 6 October 2020 07: 34
    +2
    So it's good that the adversary does not have accurate data on our technique, the more "pleasant" it will be a surprise for him. Previously, in order to snatch bullshit to the enemy, entire intelligence departments worked, but actually the guys are still working.
  10. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 6 October 2020 07: 44
    +2
    The almost daily stories that eksdreksfax -15 is better than ceksdrexfax -13 have long been sore, and expressions like "the eighth flight prototype of the 2nd stage" are just sick.
  11. 123456789
    123456789 6 October 2020 08: 21
    +3
    Once Albertus Magnus and the philosopher Thomas Aquinas, two outstanding thinkers of their time, were walking in the garden and arguing about whether a mole has eyes?

    One argued that since the mole lives underground, in complete darkness, it does not need sight, and therefore it has no eyes. Another objected that being a fur-covered animal, a mole must have eyes, like all other animals.

    A gardener who happened to be nearby approached with a bow and invited the gentlemen to catch a live mole for them so that they could look at it and thereby resolve their dispute.

    "No!" - both philosophers answered in chorus. "In no case! We argue in principle. Does a principled mole have principled eyes in principle ... "
    soldier
  12. g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 6 October 2020 09: 06
    0
    On the F-35, the AN / AAQ-37, at what distance does it reliably detect incoming explosive missiles?
    Not EOTS (which is "God's eye"), but EOS DAS.
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 6 October 2020 11: 23
      +1
      By the negative trolls, I conclude that at a distance of minus 1 meter lol
  13. Tneburashka
    Tneburashka 6 October 2020 09: 09
    -3
    They haven't seen the collective farm option yet, well, like su57kv
  14. Operator
    Operator 6 October 2020 09: 33
    +1
    The suspended container of the 101KS-N Su-57 optical-electronic sighting system is not at all like the built-in EOTS F-35 - there is something to be improved.
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 6 October 2020 10: 49
      -1
      EOTS is not really DAS, and IRST is not FLIR at all.
  15. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 6 October 2020 10: 02
    +4

    Sensors 101 KS
    1. yehat2
      yehat2 6 October 2020 10: 13
      0
      I cannot understand why the optical station and such sensors are not better sunk into aerodynamic contours. How does IT behave at high speeds?
      1. Dmitry V.
        Dmitry V. 6 October 2020 10: 23
        +3
        An acceptable solution when the "benefit" exceeds the "harm".
        This shape of the sensors provides a high field of view (almost a hemisphere), the number and weight of sensors is less. The rest cover the "dead zones".
        Well, it will give two crests of turbulence - the overview of the sensors outweighs the "damage" added aerodynamic disturbances.
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 6 October 2020 10: 26
          0
          I understand about turbulence, I do not understand something else.
          at supersonic, and especially at maximum speeds, the environment will not act weakly on these "pimples". At the moment-31 and t10 weave, such traces are clearly visible - as if he was flying among files and sandpaper.
          Will it not be so that the aircraft simply cannot accelerate to maintain systems?
          1. Dmitry V.
            Dmitry V. 6 October 2020 12: 05
            +1
            How often did you have to change the blister glass on the MiG-31?
            Infrequently.
            If the pilot does not fall into thunderclouds or a snow charge in the NW (which, in principle, is already a violation of the flight rules and the prerequisite for LP) - the durability of the sensors - according to the service life of the cockpit blister.
            The strength of the coating (paint) is several times less than transparent acrylates.
            1. yehat2
              yehat2 6 October 2020 13: 38
              0
              thanks, now I understand
        2. g1washntwn
          g1washntwn 6 October 2020 11: 03
          +2
          In photo 101KS-O (Defensive), the glare of the seeker of approaching missiles has been added to the functions of detecting and determining the coordinates of the target in the optical and infrared ranges.
          (https://vpk.name/library/f/101kc-atoll.html)
        3. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 6 October 2020 14: 55
          +1
          It's not just turbulence.
          The round shape of the optical sensors greatly increases the
          EPR of the aircraft from the front. In the F-35, the sensors are placed in faceted caps.
          It is strange that this was not done on the Su-57.
      2. g1washntwn
        g1washntwn 6 October 2020 10: 52
        +1
        Let's take a closer look at EOTS (photo from https://naukatehnika.com/opticheskij-%C2%ABglaz%C2%BB-istrebitelya-f-35-modernizaciya-sistemy-navedeniya.html):

        ... Oh God!!! He is generally like an "iron" F-117! Where is the aerodynamics?!?!?
        lol
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 6 October 2020 18: 31
          0
          Quote: g1washntwn
          Let's take a closer look at EOTS

          Sensor box, quite large
          1. Tom Johnson
            Tom Johnson 6 October 2020 20: 44
            0
            https://naukatehnika.com/files/journal/tehnika-vooruzhenie/19.09.19-elektricheskij-bak-dlya-tanka/f-35-eots-lockheed-martin-10.jpg
          2. Tom Johnson
            Tom Johnson 6 October 2020 20: 46
            0
            https://youtu.be/bX6vLcSZ3Vg
  16. yehat2
    yehat2 6 October 2020 10: 12
    0
    When you read Damantsev, you are surprised when you leave the house why, instead of the Moon, there is not yet a death star.
  17. parusnik
    parusnik 6 October 2020 10: 32
    +1
    Bauer and Wilson made a number of technical mistakes
    ... Well, let them be mistaken ... Why are you giving away military secrets .. smile
  18. Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. 6 October 2020 10: 59
    0
    It is better to say less, but when it comes, the X-hour will be many, many surprises and troubles for them. Anglo-Saxon chatterboxes, how many times they have already been hit in the face, a ship in the Black Sea, which was lost from fear, missiles that did not reach the target. Hey, you there, and we have systems that will turn your missiles back and return to you, or maybe I'm lying.
  19. Operator
    Operator 6 October 2020 10: 59
    0
    Quote: g1washntwn
    EOTS is not really DAS

    Justify laughing
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 6 October 2020 11: 26
      0
      Is it not destiny to read at least the decoding of the abbreviation and the appointment on the Lohkidmartin website?
      1. Operator
        Operator 6 October 2020 11: 36
        -1
        You wrote - you and read (especially in the American language).
        1. g1washntwn
          g1washntwn 6 October 2020 12: 16
          +1
          EOTS, an evolutionary electro-optical targeting system - guidance system - the main function, reconnaissance and warning - a bonus, a kind of extended-improved sensor from DAS to the lower hemisphere.
          Distributed Aperture System (DAS) is the first of a new generation of sensor systems bla-bla-bla F-35 - system of several sensors is simpler than EOTS.
          Explain the difference between the concepts "system" and "functional part of the system"?
          And in general, I studied Russian and French at school, I can't speak Hebrew for you, so sorry.
          1. Operator
            Operator 6 October 2020 12: 40
            -4
            Targeting system and Sensor system - so they would immediately write, or even better read my comment from 9:33 (instead of flirting with knowledge of American and ignorance of Hebrew) laughing
            1. g1washntwn
              g1washntwn 6 October 2020 13: 02
              0
              That 101KS-N is not built-in? This is practically the only thing that distinguishes them.
              Is it really so bad for the Su-57 to have a built-in one? EOTS is more needed for high-precision impact on the surface, they are molded instead of standard DAS sensors to hide everything under the expensive "invisible paint".
              1. Operator
                Operator 6 October 2020 13: 33
                0
                Built-in practically does not affect the RCS of the aircraft, non-built-in - increases the RCS not childishly.
                1. g1washntwn
                  g1washntwn 6 October 2020 13: 45
                  0
                  Well, they would write that it remains only to hide it inside ...
                  instead of "flirting" laughing
  20. ole1
    ole1 6 October 2020 11: 46
    0
    "quantum optical location station OLS-50M "
    And from the point of view of the author, there are non-quantum OLS? )))) Or not photonic optics?
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 6 October 2020 13: 09
      +1
      The human eye is also like an OLS, but only a superman can use the rays from the eyes smile
      Quote: https://rostec.ru/news/4516863/
      - KOLS quantum optical radar station, which is part of the SUV-29 fighter MiG-29;
      - optical location station OLS-27, which is part of the SUV-27 of the Su-27 fighter.
  21. yehat2
    yehat2 6 October 2020 14: 16
    +2
    it seems to me that Americans deliberately make strange assessments that show the technique is frankly flawed, so that different experts rush to prove the opposite and go too far with information, and US specialists on this wave simply collect what they do not yet know, along the way analyzing various evidence in order to more clearly imagine the potential sample.
    Those. this is a banal provocation, which should not be carried out. Take an example from China.
  22. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 6 October 2020 14: 39
    0
    Combat Su-57s will surprise American military experts.
    And when?
  23. ZEMCH
    ZEMCH 6 October 2020 14: 39
    +1
    analytical report "Russia's Su-57 Heavy Fighter Bomber: Is It Really a Fifth-Generation Aircraft?"

    This is purely a marketing article to understate one and advertise the other.
    This is the second article on VO about this "analytical material". The authors do not know the real characteristics and the set of capabilities of the Su-57, but they do not need it)))
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. eklmn
    eklmn 6 October 2020 16: 17
    -3
    Damantsev's article contains a diagram of where / what devices are located.
    In the link below, the same devices are visible from the outside, outlines. Question to the forum - are the rivets that stick out of the glider like a hedgehog's needles, increase its invisibility or lower it?
    https://www.airteamimages.com/pics/293/293622_big.jpg
    1. Voyager
      Voyager 6 October 2020 17: 45
      +3
      Let's take a look here. Ay what a beauty wink
      1. eklmn
        eklmn 6 October 2020 21: 54
        -2
        Pictured here is an F-22 flying to a show in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.
        The article is here:
        https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29218/these-images-of-an-f-22-raptors-crumbling-radar-absorbent-skin-are-fascinating?ICID=ref_fark
        (lane google)
        “One of these aircraft showed relatively strong corrosion marks on the top of the nose, just in front of the canopy. In fact, the section was in such poor shape that it offered a strange and breathtaking view of what some of the F-22's more visible surface areas are made of. As you can see in the images, not only is the surface corroded, it looks like the areas of radio absorbing material (RAM) beneath it have completely fallen off.
        “If these were holes and open to the air, one would think that the section would quickly tear apart as the plane moves and cause negative aerodynamic and vibration effects, as well as other problems.”
        And about the coverage:
        “Much of what makes up and hides under the silver leather of the F-22 Raptor remains a closely guarded secret. The aircraft's outer shape is a mosaic of radar-absorbing coatings and composite structures, transparent to radar and radar striking devices, which together allow the Raptor to remain aerodynamically efficient and also largely invisible to fire control radars. It takes a lot of work to maintain all of this, and many of these applications begin to degrade shortly after they are applied due to friction from high speed flight, crushing G forces, and elements that accelerate the process. ”
        And the most important thing about its coverage:
        “Thus, one of the most expensive aspects of operating the F-22 - and the aircraft is extremely expensive to fly, with an average cost per flight hour of about $ 60 - keeps it stealthy. "
        Thank you very much for the photo! Now we can all be sure what makes the F-22 invisible, but at what cost !!!
        And it is clear why hangars are needed - to maintain coverage.
        And as in that joke when a woman scolds a drunkard on the street. She scolded him for a long time, and he answered her: Tomorrow I'll be sober, but your legs are crooked.
        This F-22 will be blocked and will be as good as new, but the Su-57, as it flies with rivets, will fly ...
        1. Voyager
          Voyager 7 October 2020 10: 36
          0
          Look at the F-22 rivets when you're done with the jokes. wink the elephant was not noticed laughing
          1. eklmn
            eklmn 7 October 2020 15: 54
            0
            All aircraft have rivets, only the F-22/35 are covered with a special “plaster” that absorbs radar radiation (because of its contour and coating, it has become “invisible”), and the Su-57 does not have this “plaster”. But the coating is very “gentle”, so the F-22/35 aircraft cannot stand in the open air.
            But the Su-57 may not care about the sun.
            1. Voyager
              Voyager 8 October 2020 17: 27
              +1
              Maybe you still decide what worries you? Otherwise, it was worth showing you the rivets on the F-22, similar to those that you found fault with in the Su-57, and you instantly jumped off to the topic of stealth coating.
              Quote: eklmn
              covered with a special "plaster" that absorbs radar radiation (due to its contour and coating, it has become "invisible), and the Su-57 does not have this" plaster "

              What are you saying?

              ESR-reducing "plaster", as you put it, is even on serial Su-35. Even more so on the Su-57. What about the protection of the cover, then, be formed:
              Deliveries of special covers for Su-57 fighters will begin in 2021. Products will be made from polymers. Each aircraft will receive more than a dozen covers - separately for the wheels, the lower, central and rear fuselage, wings, cockpit, nozzle, stabilizers, air intakes and other parts of the structure. According to the terms of the contract, with some points of which Izvestia got acquainted, deliveries are planned until 2028. Eight kits will be produced in 2021-2022, and their number will increase in the future.

              Such "clothes" will have a double function. Firstly, it will allow much longer and more reliable preservation of the coating of the car and the electronics located on the outside. In the latest fighters, antennas, sensors, optical and electronic systems are located on the wings and fuselage. Earlier, the developer of the radar Yuri Bely said that the Su-57 was the first aircraft to use the technology of the so-called smart skin: active phased antenna arrays of different ranges are distributed "over the body" of the fighter. Unlike the radars of previous times, whose antennas are attached to the nose of the car, the "smart casing" gives an all-round view of hundreds of kilometers, not just in the front hemisphere.
          2. The comment was deleted.
  26. rocket757
    rocket757 6 October 2020 19: 00
    0
    A lot of military equipment does not live up to real combat use, confrontation with a real enemy, similar in parameters.
    Therefore, the definition that only real combat use can show everything that this technique is capable of ... remains a definition!
  27. The comment was deleted.
  28. Tom Johnson
    Tom Johnson 6 October 2020 20: 40
    0
    We knew about this Russian equipment back in 2018. I look at the Su and I see rivets - rivets everywhere!
    1. Beregovic_1
      Beregovic_1 6 October 2020 20: 49
      0
      We knew about this Russian technique back in 2018. I look at Su and see rivets - rivets everywhere
      A probable enemy has appeared))) An attempt to belittle the quality of a competitor's equipment is an advertising move to promote your products, although you seem to have no problems with this. Or are you still afraid of competition? Don't worry, our sales markets will be different. Both the concept and tasks of the Su-57 and F-35 are also different.
  29. Radikal
    Radikal 6 October 2020 22: 46
    0
    And how does your "enthusiasm", citizen E. Damantsev, compare with this one -https: //www.vpk-news.ru/articles/58858 sad
  30. av58
    av58 7 October 2020 00: 37
    0
    I don’t understand why we are interested in what American and other experts think about the Su-57. Let's say they don't consider this plane a 5th generation fighter, so what? It doesn't make him any worse. They want to compare with American cars - good luck. They say that the Su-57 is not that perfect, and loses to the F-22, F-35 and even the F-15 - very well. Before the beginning of the Second World War, the Germans also had a low opinion of the Soviet army, Soviet tank forces and the Air Force. Everyone knows the result.
  31. Paramon Pictures
    Paramon Pictures 7 October 2020 08: 28
    0
    Advice to the scribbler: drown boring turns - write in a simple language. The reading material is heavy.
  32. shonsu
    shonsu 7 October 2020 10: 13
    0
    I read and think, why the heck to throw beads in front of pigs? Well, they think so and let them think. And here you describe a picture for them and almost a sketch with the parameters of the work. The only thing missing is the drawings with the names of the developers and where they live.
  33. Varaga
    Varaga 9 October 2020 04: 16
    0
    Again, not clean on hand pinda vilify our technique. For me, this is an indicator of only one thing - ours is better.