108 meters: submarine "Kursk"

270
- What happened to the submarine Kursk?
- She drowned.
From an interview with Russian President Vladimir V. Putin Larry King


Twelve years ago, 12 August 2000, one of the worst disasters in the Russian stories. The nuclear submarine Kursk has gone to the bottom of the Barents Sea. The submarine missile carrier sank at a depth of 108 meters. All 118 people aboard the ship died. The whole country watched how the crew of the boat tried to save and then lift it from the bottom of the sea. At the same time, the whole of Russia was discussing various versions of the catastrophe, questioning them. After 12 years after the tragedy, the question of how the Kursk submarine still died is still of great interest to many Russians. Many simply do not believe the official version, according to which the explosion of the remote torpedo 65-76 "Kit" became the cause of the death of the boat.

The submarine "Kursk" was exemplary. According to the results of the year of 1999 competition, the Kursk APRK K-141 was recognized as the best in the 7 division. Five submarine cruiser combat units are “excellent”, 23% of crew members are masters of military affairs, the remaining 77% of submariners are specialists of the 1 and 2 classes. Even before the tragedy in the Barents Sea, the submarine commander Gennady Lyachin was presented to the rank of Hero of Russia.

In August-October 1999, the Kursk APRK took part in an autonomous march into the Atlantic Ocean and the Mediterranean Sea, having previously performed an “excellent” rating on the prize of the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy. The submarine was marching to the Mediterranean Sea according to the plan and under the control of KSF commander Admiral Popov V. A., who described the actions of the submariners in such a way: “The commander of the Kursk nuclear-command and control missile completely managed to realize our plan. He led the ship unnoticed through Gibraltar into the Mediterranean, it was not a breakthrough, but a song! ”
108 meters: submarine "Kursk"

In the Mediterranean, the Kursk submarine monitored the 6th fleet The US Navy, which included the Theodore Roosevelt aircraft carrier, from which aircraft took part in the bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999. During the course of its Mediterranean campaign, Kursk carried out 5 conditional attacks on real targets. As a result of this campaign, 72 crew members of the boat were presented to various government awards.

The sudden appearance of a Russian submarine, which is classified as an "aircraft carrier killer", caused panic in the ranks of the US NNXX fleet. The anti-submarine forces of all the states of the Mediterranean basin that are part of the NATO bloc were involved in the search for the Kursk. Despite this, K-6 disappeared from the Mediterranean just as suddenly as it appeared, dealing a crushing blow to American pride. After this incident, a number of commanders, including the commander of the antisubmarine defense of the Gibraltar zone, were deprived of their positions.

10 August 2000, the submarine K-141 "Kursk" went to sea to participate in the three-day planned exercises, this campaign was the last for the Russian nuclear-powered ship. According to the plan of 12 August exercises in 9: 40, “Kursk” was supposed to start training, and in the period from 11: 40 to 13: 40 to conduct a training attack of the aircraft carrier group of ships. Recent entries in the logbook of the boat were left in 11: 15 minutes 12 August. On the same day, in the 11: 30 area, the Norwegian seismological stations recorded 2 jolts, the strength of which was on the Richter scale 1,5 (taking into account the distance from the epicenter, this was equivalent to an explosion of TNT xNUMX kg) (equivalent to 100-3,5 tons of trotyl) ). These shocks occurred at intervals of 1 minutes at sea at a distance of about 2 km from Severomorsk. On the same day, the submarine Kursk did not get in touch and an alarm was announced in the 2 hour of the evening.
The commander of the nuclear submarine "Kursk" Gennady Lyachin

Versions of the disaster of the Kursk APRK

The official version of the catastrophe is the 65-76А “Kit” torpedo blast. The crash report was published in 2002 by Russia's Prosecutor General Ustinov. According to a report in 11 hours 28 minutes 26 seconds Moscow time, a torpedo "Kit" exploded in a torpedo tube No. 4. The cause of the explosion was recognized leakage of components of the fuel torpedoes, specifically - hydrogen peroxide. After 2 minutes, a fire that broke out in the 1 compartment led to the detonation of the torpedoes here.

The second explosion was of such strength that it destroyed several compartments of the boat. At the same time, torpedoes on hydrogen peroxide have not been used in most fleets of the world for over more than 50 years precisely because of reliability and safety considerations. Torpedoes model 65-76 "Kit" were created in 1976 year. They are cheaper than torpedoes equipped with silver-zinc batteries. After the investigation of the death of "Kursk", torpedoes on hydrogen peroxide, which were trying to return to the fleet in order to save, were finally removed from service.
According to the official version, the first explosion caused a strong fire in the first compartment of the boat, the shock wave from the explosion passed into the second compartment. As a result of the second explosion, the bulkhead between the 1 and 2 compartment of the boat (22 frame) was cut off and, moving like a piston, crushed all 22-mm floorings, equipment of the boat, into the robust hull. After lifting the boat, it was found that the bulkhead of the first / second compartment was in place of the bulkhead of the second / third compartments (43 frame). Only the bulkhead of the 5-bis compartment was able to stop the second shock wave. The bulkhead arched, but she parried the blow.

In the course of the investigation, it was established that the Snegir tape recorder was turned off on the boat, which was supposed to record the crew’s hands-free conversations; the toggle switch was off in the corresponding position. According to the regulations during the preparation of the training attack, this equipment should have been turned on. In addition, it was established that the emergency buoy alarm system was not turned on at the Kursk automatic missile defense system and the antenna emergency ejection system was turned off for several years. From the emergency buoy the factory fastening device was not removed, which simply did not allow the buoy to surface.

Close enough to the official version of Vice Admiral Ryazantsev, who was a member of the government commission to investigate the causes and circumstances of the death of the nuclear submarine Kursk. According to his version, the first explosion of the so-called “thick” torpedo occurred because of its filling with non-greasy high-pressure air, which the crew of the boat performed on August 11 on the 2000 of the year, using the wrong instructions. Until August 12, the air filled into the torpedo could not get into the oxidizer tank, since the torpedo was in the rack, the shut-off valve was closed, and safety devices were located on the air channel. Uncontrolled reaction of hydrogen peroxide, which led to the explosion, occurred after the torpedo was loaded into a torpedo tube.

Unfortunately, for the crew of the Kursk, all boats of this class have one constructive disadvantage. To prevent an overpressure in the 1 compartment during salvo firing with torpedoes, the flaps of the general vessel ventilation system during firing remain open. Thus, after the explosion of the 65-76А torpedo, the shock wave enters the 2 command compartment of the boat and the entire composition of this compartment receives a serious contusion, disabling. According to Ryazantsev, the second explosion on the boat is not connected with a fire, but with the fact that the Kursk APRK with the 1 compartment filled with water at a speed in the 3 node with a trim to the nose in 40-42 degrees encounters the ground at 108 depth . At this moment, the battle torpedoes, equipped with fuses and located in the apparatus number 1, 3, 5 and 6, crumple and explode.

Unofficial versions

If we talk about unofficial versions, we can distinguish four of the most common, two of which are related to the participation of American submarines in the incident. In the course of investigating the causes of the catastrophe, the option of colliding a submarine with a mine from World War II was considered, which was ultimately declared untenable. Experts familiar with the strength characteristics of submarines of the Kursk class, noted this version initially.

Also on the Internet, the version that the Kursk was sunk as a result of a missile hit by one of the ships that took part in the exercise was spread. The author of this version is the former captain of the first rank Alexander Leskov. According to him, a submarine of the class "Kursk" for physical reasons (the length of the boat is greater than the maximum depth of the sea under it) could not be under water in a given area. In his opinion, the boat was hit by an anti-ship missile fired from one of the ships while on the surface. However, most submarine officers call this version a complete nonsense.

At the same time, violations during the organization of the exercises took place. The area of ​​action of the Kursk AISSD included a part of the combat training ground of the Northern Fleet, which was not intended for joint work on combat missions by anti-submarine warships and nuclear submarines. In addition, the execution of the task that stood before the "Kursk" in the area was significantly hampered by its shallowness. In the place of its flooding, the boat could not perform all the tactics of attack, acting against the ships of the anti-submarine strike group and the battle group of ships, namely, maneuver in depth while searching and attacking surface ships, and also conducting reconnaissance, dodging after attacking surface ships, developing speed more than 12 nodes.

Along with this, during the official investigation it was established that 12 August was a day of firing of submarines, none of the surface ships of the Northern Fleet participating in the exercises, firing and missile launches. In addition, it was found that the boat at the time of the tragedy was under water and was at the periscope depth. On the submerged Kursk, retractable devices were lifted: a periscope, an observation and identification station antenna, a communication antenna, that is, that set of equipment used when moving under water.

The most talked about were versions involving American submarines. Immediately after the crash, a number of officials and admirals claimed that the Kursk could have been torpedoed by a US submarine. The French director Jean-Michel Carré even shot the documentary Kursk. Muddy Water Submarine, which was shown on January 7 2005. It argues that the torpedo attack by the American submarine Memphis was the cause of the death of the Kursk APRK. According to the version voiced in the film, at the time of the shooting of the new torpedo "Squall", Kursk was observed by two American submarines: "Toledo" and "Memphis".

The film assumes that Toledo was in close proximity to the Kursk and could have run into it (the video of the Kursk lying on the ground shows long gaps on its body). After that, in order to warn a possible salvo of "Kursk" at "Toledo", being at a distance of "Memphis" fired at "Kursk" with a torpedo Mk-48. The film’s director, Carré, claims that President Putin deliberately concealed the truth about what happened to the boat in order not to drastically worsen relations with the United States and for fear of a possible military conflict.

According to another version, there was no torpedo attack, but the cause of the first explosion could be a foreign submarine, ramming the Kursk in the area of ​​torpedo tubes. According to the captain of the first rank Mikhail Volzhensky, the sliding blow of the horizontal rudders of the submarine could lead to a serious deformation of the Kursk torpedo tubes.

Information sources:
http://flot.com/history/events/kursk.htm
http://www.popmech.ru/blogs/post/514-k-141-pamyati-kurska-posvyaschaetsya/page/12/
http://chtoby-pomnili.com/page.php?id=811
http://ru.wikipedia.org/
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270 comments
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  1. Region71
    +10
    August 12 2012
    There is no doubt now that the real reasons for the death of Kursk will remain a mystery. Regarding the fire and the internal explosion of torpedoes, I talked with the submariner, the commander of the BS-3, this is a torpedo weapon control post. So he called this version complete nonsense.
    1. 755962
      +11
      August 12 2012
      2000 August 12 - according to the official version, the explosion of the torpedo 65-76A caused the death of the K-141 Kursk SSGN, pr.949A. The explosion was caused by a leak of fuel (hydrogen peroxide) from a torpedo in torpedo tube # 4. The torpedo specialists reject the version of the fire and explosion of the torpedo 65-76.



      Fragments of a 65-76A torpedo from the Kursk SSGN. Tail section and engine. Museum of Murmansk, May 2010
      http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-461.html
    2. Specialist-
      +5
      August 12 2012
      Americans fucked and flooded - 100%.
      This is supported by the fact that they conducted their exercises there, tested the latest weapons, and Kursk spied on all this, right under them.
      They discovered (perhaps an accident) and flooded - and moreover, it is no longer important torpedo, or ram.
      The fact is important - our submarines were flooded by the Americans - UNPUNISHED !!!
      They gave the titles of Heroes to all those who died, because they were all on a combat mission. Putin spoke I remember, says - the essence of the task of the State. mystery, but they fulfilled it and died they say.
      They were afraid of exacerbations. Wow. And if the next time - they blow up the Kremlin - we won’t say anything, or else we’ll drown it.
      They have us - and we type get stronger only from this. There is also enough arrogance for these Amekans - to blame Russia for their Hurricanes like Katrina when the whole state was demolished and destroyed practically under 0. Well, at least - maybe it is. At least some revenge, since we have a thinner intestine. Or was it thin then, and now is getting fat? Now, if something like this happens (and it can easily happen) - what will Russia keep silent about? Or, as it should and must, it will do it (it will destroy, say, an enemy aircraft carrier, even if after that the enemy will use nuclear weapons, which we will use in response).
      That was the only way they reckoned with the USSR, because they knew - just like our missiles were on the way, without thinking. And only in this way they will reckon with Russia. When they will be sure - that in return they will receive if something like that ........... that little will not seem to anyone.
      However, option 2 is still unlikely. Due to the fact that our Oligarchs - oh how they would not want to lose everything acquired by overwork. They have something to lose, we have nothing to do but our own skin. That’s why it always will be like that - it’s better to give up for slaughter - 100/200 soldiers (new ones will be recruited and born anyway in half a year) - than to risk billions and the existing capitalist feudal system - the children need to be put on their feet, grandchildren. Why do they need Russia after the nuclear war? It’s not possible to steal there. And live in luxury and chocolate, passing all this by inheritance.
      That is exactly how one oligarch spoke out - a friend of Prokhor. Well, there will be a war, well, they’ll kill 60 million, think - they’ll still give birth.
      We are cattle for them. More breeding, restoring livestock.
      However, they also provide for option 1 - and in this case they build underground cities for themselves - for the FAVORITES in the case of nuclear weapons (400.000 inhabitants for 50 years). They then will be saved along with their families. And they will survive all this underground. And then, armed with a good army, they will crawl to the surface from head to toe and rebuild what they need. Those who survive on the surface, as they were essentially slaves, they will remain in the end. Nothing will change in essence.
      1. +28
        August 12 2012
        Quote: Specialist -
        This is supported by the fact that they conducted their exercises there, tested the latest weapons, and Kursk spied on all this, right under them.

        It is WE who conducted the exercises there, not the Americans. They were watching us, not us.
        Careful approach to the presentation of different versions.
        1. Specialist-
          -14
          August 12 2012
          Quote: Aleksys2
          They were watching us, not us.

          Well then, this is generally a complete paragraph.
          We are also drowned in our territory with impunity.
          Or maybe she really drowned herself? Accident due to the fact that everything is rusted, everything is old, everything is on snot and honestly.
          Planes, rockets and satellites are falling and exploding - even NEW. Why don’t the boat drown ?, all the more far from new. And in a terrible technical condition, due to the fact that in the 90s and early 2000s, everyone did not care about these boats and money for their maintenance, no one allocated repairs. And if what pennies fell, then right there the Navy themselves plundered completely.
          And the story of the mysterious 2 submarine is nothing more than a fairy tale invented for excuses and hanging noodles on the ears of the population and other curious people.
          1. slas
            -3
            August 12 2012
            Quote: Specialist -
            Or maybe she really drowned herself?

            Et you probably redefined Hollywood laughing
      2. in reserve
        +11
        August 12 2012
        And what would you do on the spot of Putin and start a nuclear war, you probably would not write comments here right now.
      3. slas
        +5
        August 12 2012
        Quote: Specialist -
        That’s why it always will be like that - it’s better to give up for slaughter - 100/200 soldiers (new ones will be recruited and born anyway in half a year) - than to risk billions and the existing capitalist feudal system - the children need to be put on their feet, grandchildren. Why do they need Russia after the nuclear war? It’s not possible to steal there. And live in luxury and chocolate, passing all this by inheritance.

        I agree with you. According to the Americans, they have about $ 500 billion in Western banks. of our oligarfrenes So lose them oh how is that
    3. +6
      August 12 2012
      Region71,
      Anyone who saw a photo of the boat when entering the dock (hereinafter prohibited for display) immediately saw the characteristic trail of the MK48 torpedo. There is no doubt about the fault of amers.
      1. +5
        August 12 2012
        Quote: Ross
        saw the characteristic trail of the MK48 torpedo


        And what is it characteristic of?
        1. +3
          August 12 2012
          Aleksys2,

          Take a look at the photo courtesy of a colleague. Beautiful smooth hole with a curved inward skin. Further on the Internet read the features of this torpedo and its characteristic trail. By the way, it is recognized by English experts as participants in the investigation.
          1. +6
            August 12 2012
            Quote: Ross
            Further on the Internet read the features of this torpedo and its characteristic trail.


            And you quote a quote.
            and tell me how a torpedo with a lively warhead could pierce a dozen millimeters at a speed of less than 50 knots, then go so far that its explosion would not bend the skin out.
            1. -1
              August 13 2012
              Kars,
              Andrey, part of the information in the French film, and part here:
              http://www.fact.ru/www/arhiv21ob-1.htm
              1. 0
                August 13 2012
                Quote: Ross
                Andrey, part of the information in the French film, and part here:

                The article is more fictional. What ballistic missiles are on the Kursk?
                24 torpedoes and 24 anti-ship missiles "Granit"
                1. 0
                  August 13 2012
                  RCC P-700 of the Granit missile system (URAF Navy Index: 3M45, according to NATO codification: SS-N-19 “Shipwreck”, shipwreck) - a long-range cruise missile anti-ship missile (RCC) designed to deal with powerful ship groupings, including aircraft carriers.
                  And this is not the only blunder in the article http://www.fact.ru/www/arhiv21ob-1.htm ..
              2. +1
                August 13 2012
                Quote: Ross
                French film, and part here:

                Please just a link to the characteristics of the MK48 torpedo showing that it is penetrating, with a fuse deceleration.

                if I honestly almost died of laughter when the French talked about the thermal ring, which heats up and gives penetration. Particularly recalling the temperature of sea water, its heat capacity, the melting point of steel, etc.

                I immediately remembered the underwater drill from James Bond with which the Amer destroyer was drowned.
          2. +1
            August 12 2012
            Quote: Ross
            By the way, it is recognized by English experts as participants in the investigation.


            What investigation did they participate in ??
            1. -1
              August 13 2012
              Aleksys2,
              http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3124 и http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=71041 и http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/4676 и http://www.tribemagazine.com/board/showthread.php?t=98284
              - It is reported here that the fact of the torpedoing of Kursk was recognized, of course, by a former expert and designer on torpedoes of the British Navy Maurice Stradling.
      2. slas
        +2
        August 12 2012
        Saw a photo and not only
        1. 0
          August 12 2012
          slas,

          Thank you for the photo!
        2. slas
          0
          August 13 2012
          MK48. This type of torpedo is equipped with a depleted uranium tip, which increases the striking ability.
          1. slas
            +3
            August 13 2012
            these are articles on the topic that Kursk was torpedoed in English: http: //www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp? ID = 3124 and http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi ? noframes; read = 71041 and http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/4676 and http://www.tribemagazine.com/board/showthread.php?t=98284 - It is reported here that the Kursk torpedo acknowledged Naturally, Maurice Stradling, a former expert and torpedo designer at the British Navy.

            Interestingly, when Stradling in 2001 said that the cause was a malfunction in the Russian torpedo, he was shown everywhere; but as soon as he announced the American torpedo torpedo and he even named the type of the American torpedo: MK-48, he was kicked out from everywhere and stopped giving his word. - "A FORMER British military official Maurice Stradling, a torpedo designer and former lecturer at the Royal Naval Engineering College has backed a sensational claim that the Russian nuclear submarine, the Kursk, was torpedoed by US forces in August 2000. An official inquest concluded that the disaster - in which all 118 crew drowned in the Barents Sea, 135km off the Russian coast - was caused by an accidental explosion of an onboard torpedo. But Maurice Stradling, a former torpedo engineer and a key figure in the original investigation, believes a new French documentary, The Kursk: A Submarine in Troubled Waters, should change world opinion on the sinking. "On the balance of probabilities, the Kursk was sunk by an American MK-48 torpedo," said Mr Stradling, formerly a senior member of the British Defense Ministry ".http: //www.siberianlight.net/2005/05/10/kursk-torpedoed-by-us-sub/ - It also says that Clinton forgave Putin the Russian treasures worth 12.5 billion dollars, that is factually Ki paid for the rise and thereby indirectly acknowledged the fact of the American cause. : The cause of the sinking was covered up at the time in an act of diplomacy between then US presidents Bill Clinton and Russian President Vladimir Putin - a deal that included the cancellation of $ US10 billion ($ 12.5 billion) of Russian debt, the film states ... And this is an article in Russian on "LivJornal" http://oboguev.livejournal.com/854747.html
          2. +7
            August 13 2012
            Quote: slas
            This type of torpedo is equipped with a depleted uranium tip, which increases the striking ability


            don't make people laugh - depleted uranium tip ---- without speed it means nothing.
            the best fairy tale from muddy water would be repeated about melting.


            For the most part, I don’t care because of what Kursk died - even if due to a collision with Toledo, which jammed depth wheels and hit its nose with the nose and detonated its torpedoes.

            BUT THESE HOUSES ARE NOT FROM TORPEDA. And THREATING, ARMORPAID TORPES DO NOT HAPPEN. Although you attach a tip to it from enriched osmium.
            1. slas
              -1
              August 13 2012
              Quote: Kars
              BUT these openings are NOT from TORPEDA. And THREATING, ARMORPASSES torpedoes DO NOT HAPPEN.

              Well, about uranium, maybe got excited feel But that is NOT a torpedo, then I do not agree
          3. 0
            August 13 2012
            what tip with depleted uranium ???? what kind of violent fantasy ??? where is the data from? from the ceiling? torpedoes (at least Mark 48) do not penetrate the ship's skin, they do not need it
        3. slas
          +1
          August 13 2012
          http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2012/847/wnge862.png
          1. slas
            -2
            August 13 2012
            this is the USS Liberty torpedoed by the Israelis in 1967
            1. +3
              August 13 2012
              Quote: slas
              in 1967 the USS "Liberty"

              Truth?,
              Having deployed, the Mirages opened fire on the Liberty from 30-mm cannons, and the Super-Mister attack aircraft that approached them dropped napalm bombs. The ship caught fire in several places at once. The surviving members of the crew, under fire from Israeli aircraft, began a desperate struggle with the fire and tried to help the numerous wounded. Despite the fact that most of the antennas were destroyed during the 20-minute air raid, radio operators managed to install an emergency antenna and broadcast the SOS Distress Signal. The signal was heard, but the aircraft carrier planes promised by Admiral Martin never appeared during the attack or after it.

              Meanwhile, the situation for Liberty took an even worse turn. As soon as the planes were out of sight, three Israeli torpedo boats appeared on the scene - the very surface targets previously detected by radar. Approaching the American ship at a distance of 200 meters, the boats fired their torpedoes at it. Fortunately for the Americans, the Israeli cutters were less accurate than their Air Force counterparts: of the five torpedoes, four passed by. But the fifth landed right in the middle of the building, where the main posts of electronic intelligence and communications were located. For a moment, the explosion literally threw the Liberty out of the water and instantly killed 25 people. The starboard side formed 12 meter hole and the ship immediately got a roll of 10 degrees.

              But the ship was lucky again. The sailors on the lower decks managed to batten down the waterproof bulkheads of the compartments and the flow of sea water into the hull stopped. However, Commander McGonagle ordered his team to prepare for the evacuation. But as soon as the American sailors launched three life rafts, Israeli boats immediately sank two of them with machine-gun fire, and the third was dragged aboard
              1. +3
                August 13 2012
                And by the way, he looked - the Jews had only MK 46 torpedoes
                Dimensions: caliber, mm: 324, length, m: 2,6.
                Weight, kg: 257,6 (Mod 0) or 230,4 (Mod 1.2, 4 and 5).
                Warhead: 43,1 kg high-explosive fragmentation

                против

                MK48
                Weight 1 kg (Mk-558)
                1 kg (Mk-676 ADCAP)
                Length 5,79 m
                Diameter 533 mm
                Warhead 295 kg [1]
                1. slas
                  -1
                  August 13 2012
                  Quote: Kars
                  And by the way, he looked - the Jews had only MK 46 torpedoes

                  And who was talking about MK 48?
                  1. +1
                    August 13 2012
                    Americans have no other torpedoes except MK 48
              2. slas
                -1
                August 13 2012
                Quote: Kars
                A 12-meter hole formed on the starboard side

                Really?
                1. +1
                  August 13 2012
                  Quote: slas
                  Really?

                  the truth is 12 square meters from the explosion of 43 kg warhead.
          2. 0
            August 13 2012
            In the period from November 5 to 7, Norwegian divers cut the outer case in the dent area on the starboard side of the front section of the 2nd compartment and in the place of a cruciform tear on the starboard side in the region of the 2nd compartment. These works were completed successfully.
        4. 0
          August 13 2012
          Quote: slas
          Saw a photo and not only

          In general, I have the opinion that this is a hole from the clamp with which the boat was held so that it would not loosen when it was sawed.
          I can be mistaken, this is just an assumption.
        5. 0
          7 2016 June
          Here is a photo ... about the torpedo and picture number 1
          № 2
          and here is the link: http: //ruskline.ru/monitoring_smi/2012/12/14/pravda_o_gibeli_kurska
          /the truth is somewhere near...
      3. REPA1963
        +1
        August 12 2012
        You say correctly, on the starboard side somewhere 2 meters or 3 from the cut.
      4. +1
        August 13 2012
        again 25 .... if you include at least logic and technical thinking, which a man should have, you will understand that such a dent (hole) cannot remain from a torpedo. Firstly, torpedoes do not penetrate the hull of the boat, but explode near it, and secondly, this dent (hole) in the area of ​​the second compartment, while it is well known that the explosion came from the first compartment to the stern, and not from the second. You really want to see the wine of the Americans, you must agree. There are no and there were no prohibitions, because this "hole" was shown on the RTR and in the future it is free on the internet
  2. +35
    August 12 2012
    In fact, it is unlikely that for the next 50 years one of the ordinary inhabitants will find out the true causes of the death of the submarine, if they are different from the official version. Personally, it seems to me that there was not an intentional collision with a boat of a potential enemy due to which there was an explosion of ammunition. Information was deliberately hidden at that time Russia was an order of magnitude less prepared for any kind of conflict compared to the present time, moreover, in my opinion, they would have hidden the true cause of death if there had been a collision with a US or NATO boat, a direct military conflict is not in our interests.
    ETERNAL MEMORY OF SEAFARERS SEAFARERS! OFFICERS AND SAILERS OF KURSK WAS A Worthy REPRESENTATIVE OF OUR COUNTRY!
    1. Rikoshet
      -1
      August 12 2012
      Twenty-five again! (Oh sorry, you already offer 50!) Let's wait to find out what we all know, but want to doubt, it's just that simple!
      A vova on the rack if you raise ?? Can he say what ??
    2. +7
      August 12 2012
      I completely agree. This is already known to our children.
      1. +19
        August 12 2012
        I'm afraid that the children will not know
        When the first footage of underwater filming was shown in "Vesti", the stripped cover on the nose was clearly visible - a long furrow - Popov and Spassky spoke in one voice - Here is the trace of the blow ...
        This was no longer in the next issue.
        The nasal extremity was cut off under the pretext of explosiveness, and then shots from the dock where explosives are carried out in pieces.
        On betrayed / sold again, for this great pu I really do not like.

        Eternal memory to you brother.
    3. +6
      August 12 2012
      Quote: Sakhalininets
      direct military conflict is not in our interests.

      Why direct? They also have "long-range torpedoes". They can probably explode too.
      1. +16
        August 12 2012
        Quote: tan0472
        Why direct? They also have "long-range torpedoes". They can probably explode too


        To recognize officially the destruction of a warship by a warship of a foreign power de facto and de jure is a direct act of aggression and an occasion for the outbreak of hostilities.
        Officially, this was not necessary. Not officially, you see, a little time will pass and some "Los Angeles" will gurgle in the world's oceans ... everything has its time.
        1. Kaa
          +15
          August 12 2012
          Quote: Sakhalininets
          To recognize officially the destruction of a warship by a warship of a foreign power de facto and de jure is a direct act of aggression and an occasion for the outbreak of hostilities.

          I agree with you. What should leadership do in this case, declare war? This would be a dilemma even in the incomparable 80s, and even in 2000 - suicide is practically only for us. It was not for nothing that the head of the CIA urgently flew to Russia, some large money was transferred from the USA to Russia ... We will find out the truth later than about the Kennedy assassination. What remains to say, ETERNAL MEMORY OF KURSK HEROES!
        2. Indigo
          0
          August 12 2012
          I just recommend an interview with State Duma deputy E. Fedorov about how Russia was occupied, how it pays tribute - your hair stands on end and you understand the GDP, how the current is spinning and what it is doing to restore the country. And how complicated it is. And if E. Fedorov is pushing bills to the State Duma to eliminate this slavish dependence, then there is hope to warm up and there is no need to rock the boat, such as driving all sorts of stools, and other sharp movements ..
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuY_icFMzZQ
        3. +2
          August 12 2012
          Quote: Sakhalininets
          To recognize officially the destruction of a warship by a warship of a foreign power de facto and de jure is a direct act of aggression and an occasion for the outbreak of hostilities.

          Clearly understood .
          Look at the Turks Phantom identity also fell for technical reasons, though for some reason in Syria’s guides and when trying to re-violate its air border.
          ETERNAL MEMORY OF HEROES!
        4. REPA1963
          -2
          August 12 2012
          Shouting nonsense, Vova sossyt
    4. +2
      August 12 2012
      Quote: Sakhalininets
      ETERNAL MEMORY OF SEAFARERS SEAFARERS! OFFICERS AND SAILERS OF KURSK WAS A Worthy REPRESENTATIVE OF OUR COUNTRY!

      support

      The most adequate info on this subject:
      Valery Ryazantsev. "In wake formation after death"
      http://lib.rus.ec/b/214731/read
      Chapter VI. The strength and power of Antei: propaganda and reality.
      Chapter VII. The death of the Kursk: how it was.


      Guys, it's good to watch the French journalist, with their murky waters, and our RenTV "military review", with their nlomania and other Lokhnese wonders.
      Yes, she drowned. And the reason for this is the state of the Navy for that period, with all the ensuing consequences.
      1. +1
        August 12 2012
        Yes, she drowned. And the reason for this is the state of the Navy for that period, with all the ensuing consequences.

        I completely agree, all these "versions are Americans" are an attempt to cover up the collapse of our fleet
        1. s1н7т
          0
          August 13 2012
          Hm. So all these versions are Americans and arose because of the collapse of the fleet. Before, they probably wouldn’t have thought of that.
    5. Specialist-
      +3
      August 12 2012
      Quote: Sakhalininets
      direct military conflict is not in our interests

      You might think directly in the interests of Amer and Nata.
      If something serious happens, the living (survivors), the Russians, the Americans, all envy the dead. The Stone Age of years on ...... sies on the whole planet will come, that's all. In fact - it's okay. Nobody is going to live forever. We will all be there.
      Although what is actually surprising. Nothing. Our women are sold into slavery - in a year, 40.000 Russians disappear without a trace. Young people are chipping, smoking and drinking, the nation is degrading. The level of migrant workers and the level of prices for everything goes off scale. The level of salaries and life of the population - the mat is not enough. The level of corruption - you yourself know where.
      For a long time you can list and marvel at the stamina of the Russian people.
      At that pace, the Russians will soon not remain. According to forecasts, by the year 50 - 20-30% will be us in Russia.
      In view of this, it’s a clear matter - what to arrange, even now - because of some 100-200 people who died - the 3rd world - Nobody and Never will be.
      Here, from cigarettes - 500.000 Russians die each year - and no one moves to raise prices for a pack of up to 200 rubles, all blah blah blah. From vodka - 800.000 mines - and the prices for it rise - ridiculously - by 10 rubles. About drugs - in Russia there are about 7-8.000.000 drug addicts. And no one does anything.
      And why? $$$$$$$$$$$$$ - billions of $$$.
      In fact, it turns out that the life of a Russian is not priceless, but has a price. For example - for the dead conscript - the state pays to parents - ASH 40.000r (2010). What a bounty! And is it not from here that the legs and the high number of 200 cargo grow in peacetime at that time. It’s easier, after all, to give 40.000 rubles to MO than to restore order in the army and lose billions. Is not it?
      That paid at least 10.000.000r - then they would have thought about the pressing conditions and problems of ordinary soldiers. That in the winter they are dying of menengitis and pneumonia, that they’ll eat the hell, that they’re doing whatever and wherever. What would be nice to carry out checks more often and more strictly, to provide parts there with medicines, and not to steal these medicines and products. That it’s time to start looking for, judging and imprisoning the soldiers guilty of death. And do not unsubscribe - heart failure / suicide - then put the Doctor in the military enlistment office, which sent the core to serve, since suicide - why? Who brought it? Who extorted money, who threatened?
      Eh - dreams, dreams. Nobody needs this. It's easier to close your eyes. And sit in your chair in place. And then those who cannot close them and love the truth themselves often find themselves behind bars.
    6. +1
      August 13 2012
      Quote: Sakhalininets
      Personally, it seems to me that there was an unintentional collision with a boat of a potential enemy

      In the collision of two submarines, one of them receives catastrophic damage, explodes and dies, and the other even leaves under its own power? Doesn't it seem strange?
  3. yurypetrunin
    +11
    August 12 2012
    yurypetrunin May 11, 2012 20:47 | The death of the Kursk - are there no more secrets? 1
    it is interesting to read the copies of "Komsomolskaya Pravda" I have saved /
    Ex. No. 157 (22381) dated August 26, 2000. A letter from a submariner who died in Kursk to Vladivostok. I quote. "... The village is just" ah ", as you look, you will shudder. Most of all, you were struck by the empty houses with boarded up windows .... We cook vermicelli in a coffee pot .... The crew goes to sea, and families without a penny remain on the shore. ... We curse, grit our teeth ... "End of quotation.
    That you, dear debaters, are complicating the problem. There are still not enough Quakers to connect to this. And UFOs. is it really not clear from the subsequent actions of the leadership (see Komsomolskaya Pravda from 25 August) that "the secret is so terrible that it scares even the military." End of quote. Those who wish will find the author in this newspaper. I remind the words of ComKSF
    V. POPOVA to the whole country on TV. that he "looks guilty in the eyes" /
    Dear submariners! I don’t know how now, but we always went to sea with brewed ASB. And the so-called RCCU failed after the first leak test due to condensate after comparing the pressure.
    And the conclusion is clear. Our weapons are not protected from unauthorized use. Lyachin lost control of the ship from one bolt in the rack. Popov knew that. The boat sank in violation of the BCF, that any struggle for survivability is conducted ONLY in the surface position so that torpedoes cannot be used. I met with FlagMin 4th EPL. According to him, a torpedo falls to 20-30 meters before a set of operational parameters. Maybe this is an immersion for this? ”The torpedo hit the bottom and self-destructed. I’m not a miner, as far as it's true, I can’t judge, but it makes me think.
    Why was the first compartment cut off? I suppose to hide the EMPTY squeezed torpedo tube. The rest are blown apart by an explosion of hardware torpedoes. The presence of practical torpedoes does not exclude this version.
    I think we will never know the truth. Kolesnikov’s note on the scenario proposed by the authorities should begin with words about a combat or emergency alert, and he wrote it when everyone .....
    Yuri Petrunin. Veteran of the Armed Forces of the USSR. Gatchina.

    1. yurypetrunin
      -2
      August 12 2012
      yurypetrunin May 10, 2012 19:13 | The death of the Kursk - are there no more secrets? 0
      Yuri Petrunin left a comment on the Evidence page of the Kursk nuclear submarine collision.
      Of 118 people, three were not found (not identified). The hatch opens towards the 1st compartment. Insert any bolt into the rack mechanism, and NOBODY will get into the compartment, and according to any schedule, there should be significantly more people in the compartment. So the submariner brought to despair frolic.
      1. Karabekir
        +2
        August 12 2012
        Quote: yurypetrunin
        Of 118 people, three were not found (not identified). The hatch opens towards the 1st compartment. Insert any bolt into the rack mechanism, and NOBODY will get into the compartment, and according to any schedule, there should be significantly more people in the compartment. So the submariner brought to despair frolic.

        Could you explain what you mean by this !!
        1. yurypetrunin
          0
          August 12 2012
          Just what he said. The human factor of the Russian Federation, and not aliens, Americans, or anyone else ... Yu. Petrunin.
          1. Karabekir
            -1
            August 12 2012
            Dear yurypetrunin !!
            I really did not understand, someone inserted a bolt into the cream mechanism ??
            1. yurypetrunin
              +1
              August 12 2012
              And can you name another reason that there were no people in the compartment except 3 people? There could be a nut, a screwdriver, a wrench between the teeth of the cremallera mechanism ... The compartment was cut off along with traces of the tragedy. Yu.
              1. Karabekir
                +5
                August 12 2012
                !
                Quote: yurypetrunin

                And can you name another reason that there were no people in the compartment except 3 people? There could be a nut, a screwdriver, a wrench between the teeth of the cremallera mechanism ... The compartment was cut off along with traces of the tragedy. Yu.

                Well, even though I had to serve at the Navy, I know almost nothing about submarines!
                Probably many here do not know, so your more detailed explanations are and will be useful to us to understand!
      2. +2
        August 12 2012
        According to the battle schedule, there are 5 (five) person .
        What identification after the explosion of torpedoes - WHAT?
        1. yurypetrunin
          +2
          August 12 2012
          When Kursk was brought to the Roslyakovsky dock, the newspapers published who was found in which compartment. Find this information, find out in which compartment the flagship miner was found? Why not in the first?
    2. +6
      August 12 2012
      that any struggle for survivability is conducted ONLY in the water position
      - Did you really write this seriously?
      1. +3
        August 12 2012
        - Did you really write this seriously?


        there and the second part of the phrase is a masterpiece
        so that you can’t use torpedoes.
        1. yurypetrunin
          +2
          August 12 2012
          I recommend the primary sources - RBZH PL, course of professor VVMIU Muru
          (I don’t remember the initials) Theotia of stability, controllability, survivability of submarines. Look for: a flooded compartment, adjacent Central City Hospital, residual buoyancy. In addition, read the Instructions for use ... of various types.
          Nowhere is there a word about Americans and other reasons.
          Sorry for the educational program. Yu. Petrunin. Submariner, however, long ago it was ...
          1. +2
            August 12 2012
            Explain how the struggle for survivability and the use of torpedoes are related?
            any struggle for survivability is conducted ONLY in the water position, so you can’t use torpedoes
            In addition, read the Instructions for use ... of various types.

            you speak-Any fight for survivability ONLY in the water position
            Yeah, what does the floor tell us about this (RBZH PL-82)?
            any and only? check your memory, IMHO you are too categorical
            1. yurypetrunin
              +1
              August 13 2012
              Read carefully my first koment. Why did the boat sink?
              To pump sludge into the cooling circuit, or to let a torpedo self-destruct when it hits the ground? And in the surface position an explosion
              would have opened the first compartment with a daisy, the bulkhead would have stood, and would not have worked as a piston until the 4th compartment. And a boat with a flooded compartment and adjoining GBC would have a residual buoyancy margin. Whether the DH will go beyond the borders of the existing waterline is another question that can only be considered theoretically, since Lyachin did what he did - plunged ... Yu.
            2. yurypetrunin
              0
              August 14 2012
              You can easily find information that three of the crew are not identified - two sailors and a representative of Dagdizel. And why weren't the BC-3 commander and other officers in the compartment, if the boat was preparing for practical firing, or there were problems with the torpedo? Didn't want to enter the compartment, or couldn't? Isn't this "secret so terrible that it scares even the military"
              (the author of the quotation marks is quite famous) Y. Petrunin. Polar, Gatchina.
            3. yurypetrunin
              0
              August 14 2012
              You can easily find information that three of the crew are not identified - two sailors and a representative of Dagdizel. And why weren't the BC-3 commander and other officers in the compartment, if the boat was preparing for practical firing, or there were problems with the torpedo? Didn't want to enter the compartment, or couldn't? Isn't this "secret so terrible that it scares even the military"
              (the author of the quotation marks is quite famous) And this is called the loss of control of the ship Yu. Petrunin. Polar, Gatchina.
        2. yurypetrunin
          0
          August 14 2012
          You can easily find information that three of the crew are not identified - two sailors and a Dagdiesel representative. And why was there no commander of the BS-3 and other officers in the compartment if the boat was preparing for practical firing, or there were problems with a torpedo? Did not want to enter the compartment, or could not? YU.
  4. +11
    August 12 2012
    Eternal memory of the tragically perished sailors of the submarine "Kursk".
  5. Karabekir
    +7
    August 12 2012
    * 8In the course of the investigation, it was found that the Bullfinch tape recorder was turned off on the boat, which was supposed to record the crew’s conversations over the speakerphone, the switch corresponding to its inclusion was in the off position. According to the regulations, during the preparation of the training attack, this equipment should have been turned on. In addition, it was found that the emergency buoy alarm was not turned on at the Kursk nuclear submarine and for several years the emergency antenna ejection system was turned off. The factory mounting device, which simply did not allow the buoy to surface, was not removed from the emergency buoy itself. ** - apparently, again, irresponsibility and negligence!
    1. +8
      August 12 2012
      The factory mounting device, which simply did not allow the buoy to surface, was not removed from the emergency buoy itself. ** - apparently, again, irresponsibility and negligence!

      it is not negligence, it is a necessity.
      the boat often goes into autonomous mode, secretly walks around the expanses of the oceans, in an extreme situation, that the boat is not uncommon, the buoy can come up and give signals, it is not very pleasant if this happens during exercises,
      and very bad, somewhere in the Canada area.
      1. Karabekir
        0
        August 12 2012
        Stas57!
        Thanks for the clarification!
        1. +8
          August 12 2012
          so as not to be unfounded

          In the practice of some boats there were losses of alarm buoys (ASB). The design of their fastening on all projects was not distinguished by thoughtfulness and reliability. August 17 1981 BS-153 (V. Vedeneev) in a six-point stormy sea lost aft ASB at the outer raid of Balaklava. 5 February 1983 g. S-296 (V. Babenko) lost the bow buoy. The commanders of the warhead-5, whose command included the mechanism for the return of the buoys, sometimes welded the buoys by electric welding to the hull or put additional fasteners that prevent the buoy from floating. Even such measures did not always help. In 1984, the city of C-36 (V. Salomatin) lost the ASB along with additional fasteners and a rusted piece of a durable case. In 1988, B-41 (Y. Batalin) lost feed ASB due to corrosion of the drive
          Yu.M. Nichik V.R. Zakhar "Submarine forces of the Black Sea Fleet" 2004 with. 328-343
          1. Karabekir
            0
            August 12 2012
            stas57 !!
            ++++ THANKS !!
      2. yurypetrunin
        0
        August 19 2012
        I attach a photo of the aft ASB, baytros and emergency hatch. The submariners will understand why the bell was not used with the UNDERDRAWED ASB. YU.
  6. +5
    August 12 2012
    Everlasting memory
  7. Vito
    +10
    August 12 2012
    How it all coincided today. Round date 100 years of the Russian Air Force and 12 years from the date of the sinking of the KURSK nuclear-powered ship!
    I don’t want to comment, ALREADY WERE DISPUTES ON THIS REASON!
    Remember our sailors
    Let's drink to our Air Force!
    1. +6
      August 12 2012
      Vito, I agree that today everything coincided. And a holiday and sorrow. Eternal memory to the sailors. And I wish the pilots that the number of take-offs coincided with the number of landings!
  8. +7
    August 12 2012
    Sailors who cannot have hungry families on the coast can be released into the sea ... about the question of the impact of food security on defense ... you can jump with a grenade under the tank ... but the true courage to carry out a combat mission every day ... knowing that Families are hungry ... Homeland you do not need ... and the enemy is nearby ...
  9. Serg_Y
    +4
    August 12 2012
    rexby63,
    Join
  10. Indigo
    +9
    August 12 2012
    And they were the Soldiers of their Country. And they will be the eternal memory of the people!
  11. +4
    August 12 2012
    for several years, the emergency ejection system was shut off. The factory mounting device, which simply did not allow the buoy to surface, was not removed from the emergency buoy itself.

    because the buoy can be lost it is welded, such cases are not rare
  12. slan
    +1
    August 12 2012
    Submarine missile carrier sank in depth 108 metroa. All 118 peopleaboard the ship perished.

    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0
    % BD% D0% B3
    From scuba diving records: 225 m (25.04.2010/XNUMX/XNUMX), Natalya Molchanova
    The height of the submarine hull with the wheelhouse is 18 m, by the way. It is obvious that after the accident there were still living people on the submarine. It is likely that the first statements by the leadership of the fleet about establishing acoustic contact with them and preparing a rescue operation are just true. Obviously, the subsequent babble about the possibility of carrying out work exclusively by the forces of Norwegian (obviously military at the main place of service of NATO) divers is an absurd and pathetic lie. It is almost obvious that the death of the crew was simply expected. I do not presume to argue that it was technically possible to save someone, but the point is that such attempts were not even made. Obviously, the essence of the cause of the catastrophe (external or internal impact, explosion or accident) was known on the very first day. Obviously, this reason was again pitiful and absurdly hushed up until all traces were covered (destruction of the remains of the first compartment of the boat). And what else could prevent Putin from disgracing himself to the whole world and instead of “she drowned” to answer: “the reason for the death of the submarine was some kind of internal explosive effect”?
    Based on the above facts, it is difficult to draw a different conclusion except that the voiced official version of the catastrophe is a lie. Then of course you can only guess.
    1. slan
      +2
      August 12 2012
      And why not local Putiners silently minus, and present at least one version explaining why Putin could not publicly publicize, first of all for his own people, the version with the explosion of torpedoes until the evidence was destroyed?
      Do not forget to take into account at the same time that the picture of the destruction of the first compartment was no secret at that time for Norwegian divers. And almost certainly among these divers there were reservists, and then the current officers of NATO special forces. It would be strange if this were not so, agree.
      1. +7
        August 12 2012
        And why not local Putiners silently minus, and present at least one version explaining why Putin could not publicly publicize, first of all for his own people, the version with the explosion of torpedoes until the evidence was destroyed?

        because such things, even a stupid bush doesn’t voice, because the commission’s conclusions are needed, and not the magazine’s conclusions ...
        1. slan
          -4
          August 12 2012
          Quote: Stas57
          because such things, even a stupid bush does not sound, because we need the conclusions of the commission

          Yah? Why, then, with the same Komsomolets, we immediately learned that he drowned as a result of a fire, why did we hear preliminary versions about the shuttle and Columbia right away? Maybe because it makes no sense to make a secret out of the truth if you are not going to hide it and replace it with a lie?
          1. +3
            August 12 2012
            and here the preliminary versions were voiced immediately.
            the official one never voices the first day
            1. slan
              -2
              August 12 2012
              Maybe I don’t remember, well, they really messed around for a very long time. Actually from here and doubts at people.
              1. +4
                August 12 2012
                why did we hear preliminary versions of the shuttle and columbia right away?

                How are you with the English?
                well if that google to help

                tragedy, let me remind you what happened on February 1 2003.
                English wiki
                On august xnumx, the CAIB issued its report on the accident. The report confirmed the immediate cause of the accident was a breach in the leading edge of the left wing, caused by insulating foam shed during launch.
                translation
                26 August CAIB published its accident report. The report confirms that the immediate cause of the accident was a violation in the leading edge of the left wing, ,,,,,.
                half a year ....
                moreover, on December 30 of 2008, NASA released another report on this topic.

                what Bush says
                http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2003/02/20030201-2.html



                tell me where does he name the reason?
                like this
                1. slan
                  -4
                  August 12 2012
                  As if I, being a contemporary of all these events, not in detail, but still remember quite well that a couple of days later I knew for sure that the "shuttle" exploded during takeoff, and the "Columbia" collapsed and burned up during landing, and when Putin asked the notorious question about the Kursk, ordinary people did not really understand anything except "she drowned", although the Norwegians at the same time knew for sure that the boat sank due to an explosion in the bow compartment. The reason and the details are another matter, here of course you need the conclusion of the commission before chatting.
                  That is, the impression was created that simply at that time it was not decided which version to sound in the end.
                  1. +3
                    August 12 2012
                    and I’m a contemporary, with the shuttle just a bunch of videos, witnesses and all the same, and still, as always, there is a major version that anything can rub.
                    and it’s more difficult with a boat ...
                    1. slan
                      -2
                      August 12 2012
                      And what is more difficult? The very first Norwegian diver, who descended to the Kursk, by its characteristic features could establish whether the boat was underwater or surfaced at the time of the accident, exploded or collapsed, from the inside or from the outside, in the bow or stern compartment ...
                      I have one main question, why is it that they did not hide from the Norwegians, zealously hide from the Russians?
                  2. +4
                    August 12 2012
                    NASA understands why the right accelerator exploded, and why the left one did not explode in the KGB.
                  3. Nubia2
                    +4
                    August 12 2012
                    Quote: slan
                    at the "shuttle" the booster exploded during takeoff, and the "Columbia" collapsed and burned up during landing,

                    do you think "shuttle" is the name of a ship? (by the way - a shuttle, not a shuttle) .You are funny.
                    the accelerator exploded not near a ship called "shuttle", but near a ship called Challenger.
                    all the ships built under the Space Transportation System program were called Space Shuttle - the space shuttle.
                    So both of these dead ships were shuttles.
                    1. slan
                      -1
                      August 12 2012
                      Of course Challenger))
                      Are you a teacher?
    2. +1
      August 12 2012
      Quote: slan
      It is almost obvious that the death of the crew was just waiting.


      After the explosion, only 23 people remained alive in the stern of the boat. They were led by Lieutenant Captain Dmitry Kolesnikov. Together with other surviving officers, he decided: to remain in the 9th compartment, which had not lost its tightness, and wait for help. “There seems to be no chance. 10-20 percent, ”wrote Dmitry Kolesnikov in the dark. The last entry is dated 15.15 on August 12, that is, after 4 hours the field of explosion. Why didn’t they come out? Investigators say they most likely did not have time. In the 9th compartment, another tragic accident occurred - due to the ingress of water, a regeneration plate explodes, which produces oxygen from carbon dioxide. This happens literally in the hands of Kolesnikov, who dies on the spot. According to experts, the rest of the sailors die after seconds from carbon monoxide poisoning.
      1. slan
        +1
        August 12 2012
        It was probably impossible to save them, but it was monstrous that no attempt was made.
        Ostensibly because of the secrecy and lack of funds in the navy. However, after the secret they suddenly forget and let the NATO divers go there, while the secrecy continues to be zealously kept exclusively from its own people.
        1. +1
          August 12 2012
          London, August 18, 11:30 GMT, 15:30 Moscow time
          According to Russian media reports, it was announced on Friday that the problem of technical compatibility of the emergency hatch of the Russian nuclear submarine Kursk and the docking port of the British mini-submarine LR-5, which is on board the Norwegian Normand Pioneer, has been "practically" solved. heading to the disaster area.

          Meanwhile, another attempt is being made to dock the rescue module with the Kursk hatch. Earlier 10 such attempts were unsuccessful. True, according to official data, in four cases the rescue vehicle "was close to docking," however, a strong underwater current, as in previous days, did not allow this work to be completed.


          Let me remind you that the delivery of LR-5 took a WEEK!
          1. slan
            0
            August 12 2012
            Quote: Aleksys2
            18 of August

            the crew was guaranteed dead, soon the hatch miraculously began to open, the coaming area straightened, and the flow stopped, apparently flowing. The corpses began to get like clockwork.
            I can confuse something for memory again, in Google, of course, more reliable information has been preserved. But was it otherwise?
            1. +1
              August 12 2012
              At the very beginning of the operation to lift the bodies, when it became clear that the diver could not squeeze in his equipment through the emergency hatch of the 9th compartment, it was decided to cut the technological hole in the eighth compartment and enter the boat through it. The first to descend to Kursk was the commander of the 328th expeditionary unit of the Navy Hero of Russia Andrei Zvyagintsev. During underwater cutting, a small oxygen bubble was suddenly blown up. It seems to be okay, but this microexplosion was enough to damage the respiratory membrane in the diving helmet. Immediately, sea water begins to flow into the helmet, and this, mind you, occurs at a depth of 100 meters and a temperature of about plus 4 Celsius. There was already water in the eyes when Zvyagintsev manages to swim to the diving bell. Five minutes later, after repairing the membrane, the deep-sea boat returns to Kursk again. Foreign colleagues aboard the rescue ship were in shock.

              London, August 20, 22:10 GMT, 02:10 Moscow time

              On Sunday, Russian media reported that Norwegian divers managed to unscrew the hatch valve on the Kursk submarine, but they were unable to lift the cover.

              Divers confirmed the fact that the docking site was severely deformed - so strong that, as Murmansk Region Governor Yury Evdokimov said in an interview with ORT, the British would not be able to dock on the LR-5 rescue vehicle.
        2. +3
          August 12 2012
          Quote: slan
          but it is monstrous that no attempt was made.

          There were, but at the level of rumors.
          Do not forget it was 2000!
          There was nobody and there was nothing to save then with their own, hence the Norwegians!
          The rescue service was then in full outage, now not in the know.
          1. +1
            August 12 2012
            Quote: Cynic
            There was nobody and there was nothing to save then with their own, hence the Norwegians!


            LIE !!!

            London, August 16, 06:35 GMT, 10:35 Moscow time
            A third attempt to rescue the Kursk crew was made this morning. Two rescue underwater shuttles are again trying to moor to the submarine's escape hatch. Weather conditions in the area of ​​operation did not significantly improve. The storm reaches three points, visibility under water, as they say in the headquarters of the Northern Fleet, is zero.

            The previous two attempts to moor the shuttles were unsuccessful. According to the press secretary of the Russian Navy, until Friday on board the Kursk there will be opportunities for air regeneration, and rescue operations, as the commander-in-chief of the Navy promises, will continue "until a result is achieved." Admiral Kuroyedov says that today he believes more in success


            And further:
            Divers confirmed the fact that the docking site was severely deformed - so strong that, as Murmansk Region Governor Yury Evdokimov said in an interview with ORT, the British would not be able to dock on the LR-5 rescue vehicle.
            1. +2
              August 12 2012
              Quote: Aleksys2
              LIE !!!

              No need to understand b u k v a l n o Something of course remained, but ...
              I would be glad if these words did not correspond to the truth.
              However, if everything was in perfect order, then why would the Norwegians ?! Why wait for them?

              Reason: The story of a person of a relative who was urgently transferred from the Far East to participate in rescue operations.
              1. +4
                August 12 2012
                Our devices could not "stick" to the coaming area.
                12 of August
                20.20 minutes received an order of hourly preparedness for rescue ships.
                But in reality, only Rudnitsky can prepare. SS Georgy Titov is experiencing a terrible shortage of personnel and material resources. It looked like he wasn't even wearing a captain. But it has the AC-36, the newest unit in the entire fleet. It is necessary to somehow deliver him to the place of salvation. On Rudnitsky, he no longer fit. As it became clear later, it would be the right decision to transfer it to Rudnitsky, leaving AS-32 on the shore, but they didn’t.

                13 of August
                00.55 An order is received by the operational duty officer on Rudnitsky’s exit to the site of the alleged death of the Kursk nuclear submarine.
                01.04/XNUMX A ship goes to sea
                03.03 Updated coordinates are transmitted to Rudnitsky, Rudnitsky must follow to Kildin Island to meet the rescue tug SB-523.
                08.59 Rudnitsky crosses the southwestern border of the exercises and establishes contact with the Peter the Great TAKR
                09.32 Rudnitsky finally arrives in the area of ​​the death of Kursk.
                10.32 AS-15 ordered to follow in the area of ​​the death of Kursk.
                10.35 "Peter" found at the bottom two magnetic anomalies
                14.50 Popov took over the general leadership of the rescue operation.
                15.41 (15.30) AC-34 is ready for launch
                16.55 AC-34 began the first dive
                18.15 He found flare on the sonar.
                18.32 Maysak (commander of the AC-34) :. “On the move, 2 knots came into contact with an object that has a rubber case. He fell on the screw when he examined the stern, after which he was forced to emerge abnormally. "The coaming site of the aft emergency rescue hatch was observed through the periscope."
                Visually confirmed that this is Kursk. The commander of the electromechanical warhead of the same type as the Kursk K-410 captain of the 2nd rank Butskikh descends on the apparatus. Visually confirmed that this is Kursk. About this second descent, the story goes that the device was able to dock to the coaming site, but when the water began to pump out, the batteries sat down completely.
                20.15 AS-34 was lifted to Rudnitsky. The batteries on it really ran out. Need to charge. But it takes time. What to do if charging is not a quick process? On the civil TINRO-2, it took 19 hours. On Search-2 13-15. On Prize it seems the same. Everyone understands that every minute is important and they start charging, bypassing instructions, in forced mode. Also preparing for the launch of the AC-32. He must assess the degree of damage to the boat and specify in what conditions it lies.
                22.35 AS-32 launched. Meanwhile, the excitement increases to 3 points. Rudnitsky is already difficult to carry out the descent / rise of the speakers. AC-32 lead to the place of the submarine, but he stubbornly does not see her.
    3. +1
      August 12 2012
      Quote: slan
      From scuba diving records: 225 m (25.04.2010/XNUMX/XNUMX), Natalya Molchanova

      So what ?
      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CC%EE%EB%F7%E0%ED%EE%E2%E0,_%CD%E0%F2%E0%EB%FC%FF_
      %C2%E0%E4%E8%EC%EE%E2%ED%E0
    4. 0
      August 13 2012
      Quote: slan
      From scuba diving records: 225 m (25.04.2010/XNUMX/XNUMX), Natalya Molchanova


      Invalid information. A little over 100 meters (record for women)
  13. mar.tira
    +9
    August 12 2012
    "The cause of the explosion was the leakage of the components of the torpedo's fuel, specifically hydrogen peroxide" ?????????????. I will add a bit of doubt about the veracity of the version of the State Commission. There is an interview with the developer of the fuel for the allegedly exploded torpedo. According to the technical characteristics, this fuel mixture in the space where it got, as the investigators say, could not explode in any way. It was necessary at least to consult with him, so that the version of the explosion from the "bad" Russian torpedo, and from the actions of the "bad" would be more plausible "Russian sailors. I learned about the tragedy while on the ship, in the company of FSB officers, and tears welling up in my eyes from impotence and despair for the helplessness of all the technical services of the once mighty fleet.
    1. +3
      August 12 2012
      It’s a leak, in history there are examples when there was a leak of components of intercontinental missiles in the mines on the boat, a fire ... an explosion and the boat sailed on, losing the covers of the mine, only there were tons of components, no kilo ..
  14. Evil Tatar
    +6
    August 12 2012
    Quote: slan
    From scuba diving records: 225 m (25.04.2010/XNUMX/XNUMX), Natalya Molchanova

    And what does diving without scuba gear have to do with it?

    At a depth of 108 meters, the pressure difference with the surface is 10,8 atm.
    And the ascent without scuba gear, an unambiguous death - will spit out the lungs on the surface, if it is still in consciousness, because nitrogen already boils in the blood ...

    I believe in the version of the Amer’s torpedo, because on the starboard side into the edge of the bulkhead of the 1st compartment, a hole was visible, as from a cumulative charge ... The body was cut off just in the middle of the hole ...
    Yes, and two boats of adversaries, one of which w / w two days got up for repairs in the norwegian. fiords, and the second got to the base in England. or the USA I don’t remember exactly.

    Eternal memory to our Heroes submariners ...
    1. +2
      August 12 2012
      I agree that this is a torpedo hole
      1. +4
        August 12 2012
        Quote: urich
        I agree that this is a torpedo hole


        it’s not even close, the most elementary is why the edges are not shaggy.
        1. -2
          August 12 2012
          why should they be shaggy? there are a lot of reports on the Internet that the Amer torpedo of the MK 48 leaves just such traces ...
          1. +6
            August 12 2012
            and then dissolves in the casing without causing harm?
            Rugged housing not damaged in this place
            1. REPA1963
              -2
              August 12 2012
              In the photo is the left side, and the hole on the right
              1. +6
                August 12 2012
                But the solid starboard hull is visible, so to speak, "the wrong side". And where is the trace from the torpedo?
          2. +7
            August 12 2012
            Because torpedoes explode on contact with a target, or at a certain distance. There are no penetrating torpedoes.
            Quote: urich
            Internet a lot of messages

            There’s a lot of bullshit in it,
            1. REPA1963
              -4
              August 12 2012
              Here you are and voice this nonsense
          3. CC-20a
            +6
            August 12 2012
            Quote: urich
            there are many reports on the Internet that the Amer torpedo MK 48 leaves just such traces.
            *hand face*


            That's what the Internet is for, so that all sorts of 6-14 year old children express their stupid guesses.
            One thing is clear that even if there was a hole in the form of a rhombus or 6 finite stars, and any most inconceivable form, then all the same figs on the Internet would have been stated that it was some kind of special torpedo that left traces, and most importantly there’s a lot of rubbish a whole bunch of followers and alas, almost the majority of them.
        2. +6
          August 12 2012
          Quote: Kars
          it’s not even close, the most elementary is why the edges are not shaggy

          I absolutely agree with Kars. I saw with my own eyes the traces of a torpedo (just a caliber of 400 mm) that got into the floating target - nothing similar even from a distance. Sorry no photo. And crap about a visible torpedo hole - from the Ukrainian chupacabra region.
      2. +2
        August 12 2012
        The area is small, rather a blow.
    2. slan
      -1
      August 12 2012
      Quote: Angry Tatar
      And what does diving without scuba gear have to do with it?

      And besides, the depth for divers is just for children. And then, according to all the television programs, they told us that, apart from NATO divers, no one could go down to the boat. What is it for?
      Quote: Angry Tatar
      And the ascent without scuba gear, an unambiguous death - will spit out the lungs on the surface, if it is still in consciousness, because nitrogen is already boiling in the blood.

      Yes? Well, then edit on Wikipedia that the same Natalya Molchanova appears to have surfaced from 225 meters and spat out her lungs or did not emerge at all, and so for the record .. And only Norwegian divers plunged more than once to a depth of one hundred meters.
      1. Evil Tatar
        +4
        August 12 2012
        Quote: slan
        Yes? Well, then edit on Wikipedia that the same Natalya Molchanova appears to have surfaced from 225 meters and spat out her lungs or did not emerge at all, and so for the record .. And only Norwegian divers plunged more than once to a depth of one hundred meters.

        I am not a specialist, but I also know that diving with air on the surface and diving with compressed air are not the same thing ...

        In other words - breathe in, dive, at least 1000 m, if you have enough health, and you can emerge with the same air ... How do whales, killer whales, who else are large with thick skin ...
        To be underwater, when atmospheric air is pumped to you through a hose and then emerge without stopping for decompression, in my opinion, it is also possible ... It is also possible to go down in the "bell", there you can swim at depth without scuba gear ...
        But with the air taken with you, the story is completely different ...
        Remember the movie "78 meters", when the hero slowly ascended to the surface along the halyard of the buoy, on which there were musings ...
        That is, after each meter set according to the instructions, it is necessary to stop the ascent and carry out decompression ...
        But there is a border depth (it seems like up to 30 m.), When a quick rise in scuba gear does not very much affect the boiling of nitrogen in the blood ...
        If N. Molchanova did not have enough air and she would have used the help of belaying scuba divers to "breathe", then she would have floated up after that in exactly this, slow way ... Otherwise, the lungs, together with the body, would float alongside along the surface of the okiyana sea .. ...

        Something like this ...
        1. slan
          -2
          August 12 2012
          On the film "78 meters" to teach materiel?))
          Well, of course, I just didn’t think about holding my breath, I just smiled at the childish absurdity about the lungs. So there are helium mixtures so that blood does not boil and you will be annoyed, but the materiel just says that even with breathing with ordinary air you can go down to depths of up to 100 meters. Of course, decompression requirements become very stringent.
          Still, I don’t understand yet what was your comment? I brought this as an illustration to the fact that even a non-Norwegian woman without special equipment dived at times great depths and did not flatten and burst when she surfaced, and it is obvious that even in the 90s there was equipment left in the navy that allowed working on at a depth of 100 m. I agree, however, that you probably very smart once even know that floating from great depths should be slower the longer you stay there.
          1. +2
            August 12 2012
            Quote: slan
            it is obvious that even in the 90s there was equipment left in the navy to work at depths of 100 m.

            Who do you want?
            Where does this information come from that everything was good in our Navy rescue service?
            1. slan
              -2
              August 12 2012
              Everything was bad of course, but not to the same extent.
        2. +2
          August 13 2012
          Sports achievements of Natalia Molchanova: 16-time World Champion and holder of 30 world records:
          30. world record: free immersion in depth - 88 m. Greece, Kalamata, freediving world championship, September 24, 2011
          29. world record: deep diving in flippers - 101 m. Greece, Kalamata, freediving world championship, September 22, 2011
          28. world record: diving in depth in flippers - 100 m. Bahamas, Vertical Blue, April 16, 2011
          27. world record: diving in depth with variable weight (VWT) - 125 m. Greece, Kalamata, freediving world cup, June 16, 2010
          26. world record: long diving in fins - 225 m. Moscow. Moscow Open Cup, April 25, 2010

          There can be no talk of any 225 meters in depth. This is her record for diving in length with flippers.
          The men's record for diving in depth without restrictions is 214 meters.
      2. +9
        August 12 2012
        Quote: slan
        Yes? Well, then edit on Wikipedia that the same Natalya Molchanova appears to have surfaced from 225 meters and spit out her lungs or not at all, and so for the record ..

        Are you sane? This Molchanova is a trained athlete who dived from the surface and breathed in air at normal pressure. Try to imagine what happens to the lungs when diving. The pressure on the depth of the sunken boat is 5 times higher than in the wheels of your car.
        Quote: slan
        And besides, the depth for divers is just for children

        Judging by such a statement, you are not familiar with the diving business.
        A diver can also receive a caisson when lifting from 25 meters without decompression.
        Leave Wikipedia for acne students, for literate people this is .... an authoritative site is not.
        1. slan
          -3
          August 12 2012
          Quote: Drednout
          The pressure on the depth of the sunken boat is 5 times higher than in the wheels of your car.

          Quote: Drednout
          Leave Wikipedia for acne students, for literate people this is .... an authoritative site is not

          Another smart guy)))
          Paphos is less, we are on the Internet ifche. And what, in your "scientific" literature, is there an alternative information about diving depths?
          You can catch anything at least in the bathroom, but outside of Norway there were, are and will be trained and untrained people who are able to work at a depth of 100 meters and this requires by no means unique equipment.
          1. Evil Tatar
            +6
            August 12 2012
            Quote: slan
            slan
            Do not be stupid ...
            If something doesn’t suit you, then sign up for divers courses, there they will explain to you popularly and by your personal example they will be able to show the consequences of your disbelief ...
            1. slan
              -3
              August 12 2012
              Quote: Angry Tatar
              Do not be stupid ...

              Do you seriously consider yourself sharp?
              What kind of disbelief will they explain to me on divers courses?
              I don’t just believe, I have no doubt that there are problems with decompression. But what does this have to do with my posts in any way?
              In our country, in addition to women diving for 200 meters without equipment, there are more than one thousand people able to dive 100 meters, using by no means unique equipment. Is something wrong again? Need to add that they would have to surface slowly?
              Are you normal, I'm sorry? I wrote about the ascent speed somewhere?
          2. +4
            August 12 2012
            Quote: slan
            There is less pathos, we are on the Internet, though.

            The trouble is that on the Internet, there is no way to answer for your own ... My personal scientific literature is just light diving training during my service in the MCHPV and a couple of navigations in Volgopodvodtruboprovod.
            There were no super suits, the usual gk with a "wallet", three-bolts and twelve-bolts, but max. the depth of work in a three-bolt can not exceed 25 meters. Personally, I had to dive and work only in rivers and reservoirs. Appropriate and depth. But they also worked for 6 hours practically by touch.
            So it’s better than staying around about the bath - sit on your Wikipedia, the place is there. Especially if there are no thoughts in essence.
            1. slan
              0
              August 12 2012
              Quote: Drednout
              in a three-bolt coat cannot exceed 25 meters

              Your diving training is lousy, but like everything else, apparently. 25 meters just at 12 bolts, at 3 bolts - up to 60 meters, an expert from Volgopodvodtruboprovod ")))
              1. 0
                August 12 2012
                Quote: slan
                as it appears. 25 meters just at 12 bolts, at 3 bolts - up to 60 meters, an expert from Volgopodvodtruboprovod ")))

                Wikipedia subtracted? Well, of course, I did not manage to become a specialist, and the training promised by the employer at the Kiev diving school did not wait. So the preparation may not be very, everything is in practice.
                What can you say about yours?
                1. 0
                  August 13 2012
                  Yes, you still know how to read?
                  Quote: Drednout
                  I personally had to dive and work only in rivers and reservoirs

                  There was no skill in great depths, and tolerances in general of up to 20 meters at the medical board were given to our divers, you’re our best one. I won’t even deign.
                  1. slan
                    0
                    August 13 2012
                    Quote: Drednout
                    I won’t even deign.

                    Oh, you are so generous))
                    You already zaminusite, amuse the affected complexes, it may feel better, you can not keep it))

                    Maybe in the light of newly discovered circumstances we’ll talk about decompression?)) How could we miss that the Russian diver was the first to enter the submarine. Imagine a RUSSIAN diver at a depth of 100 m !!! where the pressure is 5 times higher than in the wheels of my car! But still in the afternoon we could not imagine it. Sweets dreams.
                    It’s a pity I can no longer give you posts where you could put a minus, relieving your soul.
    3. +1
      August 12 2012
      You can swim, but the rules with delay at certain depths, the crew does not have scuba gear, but there are protective suits with an autonomous regenerative breathing system, but it is designed for a certain depth.
      1. slan
        -2
        August 12 2012
        Most likely, a lot of technical problems would not have allowed to save the crew. But the bottom line is that such attempts have not been made. And for some reason they carefully guarded the secret from the Russians, but the NATO divers were the first to examine the boat.
      2. Evil Tatar
        +4
        August 12 2012
        Quote: Strashila
        You can swim, but the rules with delay at certain depths, the crew does not have scuba gear, but there are protective suits with an autonomous regenerative breathing system, but it is designed for a certain depth.

        The regeneration system is not intended for emergency exit of the boat.
        There are other suits ISP-60 ...
  15. bamboo
    +2
    August 12 2012
    Eternal memory of the tragically perished sailors of the submarine "Kursk".
  16. -5
    August 12 2012
    That is why no one published these photos in the article and did not rate these photos?

    I am not special in marine matters, but I personally am deeply convinced that such holes can only be from torpedoes. Why will no one prove me otherwise?
    1. +3
      August 12 2012
      Has it ever occurred to you that such "holes" are formed when a piece of unfinished metal is torn off?
    2. bulgurkhan
      +3
      August 12 2012
      In this photo you can see that the sturdy case in the region of the hole you indicated was absolutely not damaged.

      1. 0
        August 12 2012
        I will not argue with you. Personally, I SEE A FULLY DESTROYED rugged body in the bow! The topic with this hole has repeatedly been raised in the media. WHY NOBODY has yet given a clear explanation of where it came from? Do you have an answer? I will be pleased to get acquainted
        1. 0
          August 12 2012
          Personally, I SEE A FULLY DESTROYED rugged body in the bow!

          sawed it off!
          it’s a shame not to know such things
          1. slas
            -4
            August 12 2012
            Quote: Stas57
            sawed it off!
            it’s a shame not to know such things

            I am ashamed here and ask What kind of sawed file dear tell me?
            1. +1
              August 12 2012
              Quote: slas
              What kind of sawed file dear tell me?

              Cable car, or cable car.
        2. lotus04
          -4
          August 12 2012
          Quote: urich
          WHY NOBODY has yet given a clear explanation of where it came from? Do you have an answer? I will be pleased to get acquainted


          Because right after that, Putin met with then-President Pen - got it. And what they were whispering about there, who promised whom and what, is unknown. The fact that the boat was torpedoed, no doubt. When cutting, the hole most likely should have remained in the bow and the case is sewn - covered. But the error in the calculations and the facts are there. Pictures of the side of the boat with the hole were hidden for a long time, but apparently - the secret always becomes apparent - it still works.
          1. lotus04
            0
            August 13 2012
            Quote: lotus04
            the secret always becomes apparent - it still works.



            Those Russian newspapers that still managed to publish satellite images of a “suspicious foreign” submarine for repairs in the Norwegian port were immediately pressed to the FSB's nail. This submarine really was an American Memphis and it reached Norway for 7 days instead of the usual 2. Another American boat, Toledo, in zigzags, a non-standard course, left for the USA. Two representatives of the Russian military and political leadership Igor Sergeyev and Ilya Klebanov, who did not follow the path and defended the American trail as a public version, were eventually dismissed.

            Some time later (about two weeks after the incident), all of Russia's previous US debt was canceled, and America granted Russia a new loan of $ 10 billion. Each family of sailors who died on the Kursk received unthinkable compensation of $ 25.
            1. +3
              August 13 2012
              Quote: lotus04
              Two representatives of the Russian military and political leadership Igor Sergeyev and Ilya Klebanov, who did not follow the path and defended the American trail as a public version, were eventually dismissed.

              The "American trail" was beneficial to them, since with the carelessness that reigned in the fleet, this was the most convenient excuse.
              I repeat: In the collision of two submarines, one of them receives catastrophic damage, explodes and dies, and the other even leaves under its own power? Doesn't it seem strange?
              1. lotus04
                -2
                August 13 2012
                Quote: Veter
                They benefited from the "American trail"


                Yes Yes. And the electronics of the American torpedo MK-48, which is configured so that it would hit a submarine at the end of the torpedo compartment, in the area of ​​the command post, where control posts and communication posts are concentrated. In the defeat of which the ship becomes helpless even when staying afloat. They also tuned. Or you don’t know where Kursk has a hole that looks like a hole from the MK-48 torpedo. Which has the ability to beat the light and durable hull, explode inside the torpedo compartment. And who told you that the second boat remained intact? Read carefully.
                1. lotus04
                  -1
                  August 13 2012
                  Quote: lotus04
                  And who told you that the second boat remained intact? Read carefully.


                  To broaden your horizons.
                  1. 0
                    August 20 2012
                    Quote: lotus04
                    And who told you that the second boat remained intact?

                    She only has a damaged nose and she OWN reached the base
                    A collision would have far more serious consequences, to say the least, namely that it would remain lying next to Kursk
                2. 0
                  August 13 2012
                  it was you who looked at Wikipedia and read there nonsense, composed by some teenager, immediately after the death of the Kursk. On the same Wikipedia, read the same article about the torpedo, only in the English version. our handles did not get there, and there it is indicated for people with brains that this torpedo hits the ship in the immediate vicinity of it (and certainly without getting into it). Separately, it should be said about the command compartment - if you at least turned on the logic, you yourself would have guessed (if you are so far from the submarines) that the location of the command compartment immediately behind the torpedo (ie in the second) is a feature of the Anteyev. And not on all submarine projects, he is in the second. Or was the MK 48 torpedo designed and tuned specifically against the Anteevs?)))))
                  1. lotus04
                    -1
                    August 14 2012
                    Dear, do not be rude, but you will not be swindled!
                    1. -2
                      August 14 2012
                      But what is rudeness? that poked his nose into ignorance? unpleasant, I understand. But in fact, there is something to answer? or blurted out so ... for the blooper?
            2. -2
              August 13 2012
              tell me, who and how tracked the course of "Toledo" and "Memphis"? you didn’t ask yourself this question?

              Such as Sergeyev did not defend the American trail, but their skins, because the tragedy revealed for many what happened in the Navy for many years
              1. lotus04
                0
                August 14 2012
                Quote: Delta
                Such as Sergeyev did not defend the American trace, but their skins


                Of course of course! Sergeyev is to blame for everything. Well, who else? After all, Putin at that time was resting in Sochi. And Sergeyev managed to steal the entire fleet! Indeed, in the rest of the army and aviation, we have complete order. And of course, how could we then think of the Americans ?! They were then in our best friends! At their request, so much good did the army! So many promising developments prosrali and gave them! What is only one F-35 worth, which is made in the image and likeness of the Yak - 140th, practically gifted to them.
                1. 0
                  August 14 2012
                  all the people are to blame. And since this people has leaders, they must answer. In this case, the leaders of the fleet. Do you think everyone should stay with their own? Incidentally, of the 11 officials directly responsible for the disaster, not one was injured. Dismissed admirals moved to new, even warmer posts. And even some fell into deputies
                  1. lotus04
                    0
                    August 14 2012
                    Quote: Delta
                    And since this people has leaders, they must answer.


                    Dear, I have not seen a government in this country since the times of the USSR! I have seen and see only managers and brokers parasitizing on the remnants of the industry from Soviet times. - "To whom the gas! To whom the oil! Come in cheaper!" Urrrryayaya !!!
                    1. -1
                      August 14 2012
                      and if so, what do you suggest? no one to answer for anything? it was just about responsibility
          2. -2
            August 13 2012
            can you find out where the information about the meeting of presidents immediately after the tragedy?
            1. lotus04
              0
              August 14 2012
              Well, since you are so smart and read Wikipedia, then justify this gesture of "goodwill" by the state, which considers Russia to be enemy number 1 and which is considered the biggest debtor in the world.

              Some time later (about two weeks after the incident), all of Russia's previous US debt was canceled, and America granted Russia a new loan of $ 10 billion. Each family of sailors who died on the Kursk received unthinkable compensation of $ 25.
              1. -1
                August 14 2012
                no, smart here only you and any event of course will tie to that disaster. Do you have concrete evidence? Of course not. And leave your speculations prompted by magazine readers
                1. lotus04
                  0
                  August 14 2012
                  Quote: Delta
                  Do you have concrete evidence?


                  I will listen to yours with great pleasure. I wonder what kind of magazine bells inspired your arguments! I would like to read the full list of perpetrators of the Kursk disaster. Please announce the names of all 11 people.
                  1. -1
                    August 14 2012
                    my evidence? evidence of what? the fact that it was not torpedoed ??? this means that I will have to refute the non-existent, which is almost impossible. Or prove to you that debt relief and tragedy are not connected? and I can’t prove it, but I don’t bind it together, but you. So prove that these two events are directly related and if connected, then where did you get this information.
                    Regarding the 11 perpetrators, given that you gave the exact number, you yourself are familiar with the official conclusions of the commission and the actions that followed. However, since I was asked, I will bring those who are more or less guilty, the people who in August 2000 held the following posts in the Navy:

                    - Acting Chief of the General Staff of the Navy;
                    - Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Navy for Operation and Repair;
                    - Deputy chief of combat training of the Navy;
                    - head of the Navy anti-submarine weapons department;
                    - Chief of Staff of the Northern Fleet;
                    - Deputy Commander of the Northern Fleet for operation and maintenance;
                    - Chief of combat training of the Northern Fleet;
                    - Head of the Mine and Torpedo Directorate of the Northern Fleet;
                    - Commander of the 1st Fleet of Submarines of the Northern Fleet;
                    - Chief of Staff of the 1st Northern Fleet Submarine Flotilla;
                    - Deputy Commander of the 1st Flotilla of Submarines for Operation and Repair;
                    - the flagship specialist of mine-torpedo business of the 1st submarine flotilla;
                    - commander of the 7th division of the 1st flotilla of submarines;
                    - Deputy Commander of the 7th Division of the 1st Flotilla of Submarines.

                    Hopefully, do not force to justify the degree of guilt of everyone - a multi-book will work out. The main culprit - Popov became a deputy after resignation. Cool resignation.
                    1. 0
                      August 14 2012
                      Quote: Delta
                      The main culprit is Popov


                      What is his fault?
                      1. 0
                        August 14 2012
                        Yes, nothing. In general, no business. That's it, the conversation is over, for there is no point
      2. 0
        August 12 2012
        Quote: bulgurkhan
        In this photo you can see that the sturdy case in the region of the hole you indicated was absolutely not damaged.

        In this photo you can see that that part is already cut. Or scroll down 50 comments and look at the picture ...
      3. REPA1963
        -5
        August 12 2012
        Once again for medveput, on the left photo and a hole on the starboard side
      4. lotus04
        +1
        August 13 2012
        Quote: bulgurkhan
        This photo shows


        God forbid at least one Pen - Dos boat to be seen in this form. As on our "bones" these ubl - yudki (selling skins) love to dance, and at the same time and to earn extra money.
      5. 0
        August 16 2012
        Quote: bulgurkhan
        absolutely not hurt.


        And so it seems to me ...
    3. +1
      August 12 2012
      It was believed that this is a technological cut made by divers when raising a cruiser
      1. slas
        +1
        August 13 2012
        those holes that turned in the hull of the submarine to lift it - they are all located on the upper plane of the submarine and have no relation to the inlet. These holes for lifting are not even visible in the picture, not a single one, and they were made on the upper deck of 26 holes. And this hole in the "Kursk" is located even below the centerline in the direction of the rear - obliquely forward and could not have anything to do with the rise of Kursk.
    4. 0
      August 12 2012
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaKM35osvnM
      Quote: urich
      that such holes can only be from torpedoes

      aha
    5. +5
      August 12 2012
      Quote: urich
      that such holes can only be from torpedoes.

      aha
      1. +3
        August 12 2012
        exactly right that way
        wassat

      2. -3
        August 12 2012
        Quote: Kars
        aha

        Didn’t his nose rip to shreds?
        1. +6
          August 12 2012
          Who should he? If you see Kursk Tokak on the photos shown, the evidence of the torpedo strike is not a torn sheathing, but a rather tidy hole with swarmed edges, round in shape.
    6. REPA1963
      -7
      August 12 2012
      Well done plus you, how did you putinoids
  17. 0
    August 12 2012
    I think that after all there was a place of clash with the Americans. A torpedo attack is unlikely, the Americans, at least dudes, but they would have decided on such a thing. Rather, they spied on ours and accidentally collided, which caused a torpedo explosion. It was more like that. Not without reason, after all, then immediately officials of the American defense industry came to us. Yes, and some kind of toli was issued to us.
    1. lotus04
      -1
      August 13 2012
      Quote: Max111
      I think that after all there was a place of clash with the Americans


      They showed that there were two American submarines in the area of ​​maneuvers. They were on special missions, following the maneuvers. One Memphis submarine was sailing under cover of another Toledo boat in the shade. It seems like the only one on the screens of all radars and sonars. Then, Memphis emerged from under its leading boat in order to better explore the launch of a ballistic missile from the Kursk without calculating the course and distance. The Americans were on a collision course and collided head-on with ours. They walked with their whole body through the most vulnerable second compartment of the Kursk. But the worst happened later. On the second American boat, Toledo, watching the whole picture, the captain decided that the Russians somehow attacked the Memphis and without hesitation, fired a torpedo at the Kursk. The torpedo hit directly in the weakened part at the junction of the second and third compartments and exploded inside. Our planes, in fresh tracks, were fixed oil stains on the water at the rate of a foreign submarine leaving the scene.

      It turns out that ours drove these two American submarines to all events and knew for sure that they were Americans on observation. After the collision and attack on the Kursk, Minister of Defense Sergeyev took two anti-submarine squadrons into the air. Reported south to Putin immediately. And at the same time, the Americans got in touch with Putin. After liaising with the Americans, Putin recalled the planes and, in the end, Putin (or his team) decided to stay in the south so as not to provoke tension. Everything, it turns out, was on the edge of the abyss.

      The CIA director arrived in Moscow urgently for consultations. All this time, Putin was constantly in touch with Bill Clinton.

      As a result, no one was allowed into the boat, although the whole world was offering qualified help. After all, we all thought that you could save someone. A few days later, we agreed to let the Danes go, but with a strict order not to swim to the bow of the boat. The Danes managed to open the hatch in the eighth compartment, found several posthumous records, and confirmed that no one survived inside the boat. After that, the work of our divers continued. They no longer cared about the boat itself, its reactor and the dead sailors. It turns out that from the bottom near the Kursk, pieces and fragments of the American Memphis were urgently removed.
      1. 0
        August 13 2012
        Bravo for fantasy. For knowledge, the unit so far
        1. slas
          -1
          August 14 2012
          case
          Quote: Delta
          Bravo for fantasy. For knowledge, the unit so far

          Do you have reinforced concrete data as it really was?
          1. 0
            August 14 2012
            no reinforced concrete. There are believable
            1. slas
              0
              August 14 2012
              Quote: Delta
              There are believable

              If there is please bring pzhlst And leave the minus ball to myself I do not accept on Tuesdays
              1. 0
                August 14 2012
                and I don’t serve on Tuesdays - read Valery Ryazantsev "In the wake of death". A professional submariner who was on the government commission substantiated his arguments both from a technical point of view and from a logical point of view. He also described the prerequisites that led or could lead to the disaster. And no fantasies. I agree with him 100%, and therefore it will be superfluous to quote him.

                By the way, about the cons - are you sure I was minus? Did you receive a notification about this? that's how you got used to - to judge something unfounded and peremptorily. As for the topic of the article
                1. slas
                  0
                  August 14 2012
                  Quote: Delta
                  read Valery Ryazantsev "In wake formation after death".

                  thanks I will read, I will answer (if it is interesting to continue)
                  Quote: Delta
                  that's how you got used to - to judge something unfounded and peremptorily.

                  100 percent refers to you (no offense) I also receive information both from the media from the press and books, and also from friends of people who own information about this tragedy too. Well, something like this
                  1. 0
                    August 14 2012
                    in what? I was talking about "backing tracks", but what are you talking about? justify specifically
                    1. slas
                      0
                      August 14 2012
                      Quote: Delta
                      I was talking about "backing tracks
                      if so then a confusion occurred --- I apologize
  18. +2
    August 12 2012
    The fact that the official version is complete nonsense, no one needs to prove. To detonate the ammunition is not so easy. 2 minutes of fire, this is a pretty decent time to make a decision. It turns out that the crew was smoking and didn’t do anything, automatic fire extinguishing The main postulates of the case, the torpedo, the boat was in a bow-to-ground position. Let's even assume that everything started with a torpedo, the torpedo tube remained in the open position (it was turned around by an explosion, the commission says) inside the boat. The compartment should be in position closed, the bulkhead is designed for pressure from the outside. The conclusion is that during the explosion of the main ammunition it was supposed to take out the cover of the dashboard from the outside, from the inside it was in the open position. And part of the explosion was supposed to go outside ... and this is not such a quiet bunch under water, and they want to assure us that not a single sonar speaker heard anything. But what brought the boat to the fore position in the ground is no answer, and this is the main reason explosion in the back of the boat. But the combination of a blow to the hull of the boat from the outside with another boat (the trail was shown in underwater shooting) could lead to loss of control and, as a result, an impact on the ground, into which it simply buried its bow. This coincided with the moment of loading the torpedo , it did not catch fire, but detonated, rather close to thermobaric ignition, given the fuel, which led to the detonation of the main ammunition.
    1. +3
      August 12 2012
      Reread the version of Vice Admiral Ryazantsev in the article.
      I happened to communicate with knowledgeable people from the Northern Fleet, they said exactly the same thing, with one "but" - there is a difference of opinion about the cause of the torpedo explosion in the TA. Collision? Perhaps harmless in a normal situation, at the time of firing a potentially faulty torpedo from a TA, it played a fatal role.
      And then everything is more or less clear - the explosion of a torpedo in the TA, the flow of water, the trim on the nose (there is no control anymore), the impact on the ground, the detonation of the entire ammunition, the catastrophic destruction of several compartments, the remains of the boat on the ground that survived are collected in the 9th compartment , some time there, maybe hope for salvation, maybe get ready for the exit, and then a fire for the most commonplace in the submarine fleet reason - chemical regeneration + oil.
      Eternal memory to sailors.
      1. 0
        August 12 2012
        Alexander K., so he decided to count in the comments the people who read Ryazantsev ... There are more teenagers - adherents of conspiracy theories and people with Faith in the Loch Ness monsters ...
        Eternal memory to sailors.
  19. Urion
    -5
    August 12 2012
    The Americans of the dog drowned Kursk, and ours most likely demanded some kind of economic concessions. Under the USSR, they would simply drown one boat of amers
    1. 0
      August 12 2012
      I'm afraid you are right.
  20. +4
    August 12 2012
    slan
    Obviously, the subsequent babble about the possibility of carrying out work exclusively by Norwegian (obviously military at the main duty station of NATO) divers is an absurd and miserable lie


    And besides, the depth for divers is just for children. And then, according to all the television programs, they told us that, apart from NATO divers, no one could go down to the boat. What is it for?

    deep-sea divers have always been piece goods.
    To maintain qualifications, they must have at least 15 deep-sea descents to depths from 60 to 100 m per year.

    and now you have a question, how many in the 2000 year in the Northern Fleet, there were divers divers authorized to work.
    how much in the country?
    How much can they be assembled and delivered?
    Who did not give such an order?
    Where did the best school of deep-sea divers in the Northern Fleet in 2000 go?

    and then we’ll see who is to blame, Yeltsin, Putin, admirals, Americans ..
    1. slan
      -4
      August 12 2012
      Yes, 100 meters, it’s not good news what deep-sea. For the sake of maintaining military secrets, one could sacrifice non-compliance with formal standards. But what if 15 turns around the earth per year were necessary to maintain the astronaut’s qualifications according to standards? Would you wait for the Norwegians to fly into space.?
      1. +2
        August 12 2012
        Of course, of course, you probably have all 500?

        For the sake of maintaining military secrets, one could sacrifice non-compliance with formal standards.

        what are you talking about?

        But what if 15 turns around the earth per year were necessary to maintain the astronaut’s qualifications according to the standards? Would you wait for the Norwegians to fly into space.?


        what are you talking about?
        1. slan
          -2
          August 12 2012
          Quote: Stas57
          what are you talking about?

          It was possible to carry out work without attracting foreign divers. Less effective, later, more expensive, but possible and quite uncomplicated. Since 100 meters for diving operations, the depth is never difficult.
          Quote: Stas57
          Of course, of course, you probably have all 500?

          Why not 600? In fact, can you speak up?
          1. +1
            August 12 2012
            Quote: slan
            Like 100 meters for diving, the depth is never difficult.

            What is your specialty?
            1. slan
              -2
              August 12 2012
              Quote: Cynic
              What is your specialty?

              That is, not being a loader, I have no right to talk about the difficulty of unloading a carload loaded with 70 kg bags. Is this possible in Russia, or do Norwegian movers certainly need?
              1. +1
                August 13 2012
                Quote: slan
                I have no right to reason

                You have to argue, no to judge.
    2. +1
      August 12 2012
      And what could a diver do ???

      The only hope was for the rescue apparatus, which could not hermetically "stick" to the coaming of the 9th compartment hatch ... and not because the comms were damaged.
      Although, according to eyewitnesses, at the time of the operation with unsuccessful attempts to dock, there were no one alive.
      1. slan
        0
        August 12 2012
        There is a diving bell for this, and a diver, open the hatch or help the same device dock. The bottom line is that we were then announced that the technical means of salvation, including we don’t have divers. Then the truth suddenly turned out that there were devices, but the platform bent and even divers in Russia, capable of diving 100 meters, were found a miracle.
        There were just too many lies. Personally, the official version is more likely for me. Nevertheless, all the damage is really localized in the first compartment, and the boat would hardly have sank so sharply at such a depth if it had been in the surface position when it got into the nose. Collision detonation also seems unlikely. But there were too many lies.
        1. +6
          August 12 2012
          Personally, I stick to Ryazantsev’s version - the explosion of a torpedo in a TA and detonation after hitting the ground. About the American torpedoes and the Flurry from Peter the Great, the versions are simply funny, designed for the layman.

          I confess that for many years I believed that the site was bent until just recently I heard a refutation from a participant in the events. No divers could help the device dock, if the design of the docking station does not provide tightness.
          1. slan
            +1
            August 12 2012
            I wrote that I don’t really believe that it was possible to save someone. But I am outraged that the first days did not try to do this, and through state channels announced the impossibility of even an elementary immersion in the submarine.
            And once again I will notice about the diving bell, there the tightness of the dock is not needed, it seems.
            Well, about the divers, I’ll remind you once again, I mentioned because I remember very well Putin’s powerful propaganda in the early days of the tragedy, that there are no divers in our country who can go down to the sunken submarine to stupidly relegate with the surviving crew, not to mention the vehicles . Very similar to the fact that they were just waiting for everyone to die. Then the apparatus and divers even appeared, but 2-3 people, the rest are racially faithful Norwegians. The question is why?
            Here is a typical clipping from an article from that year:
            So what happened to the Northern Fleet rescuers? Where are they now? The "MK" correspondent managed to meet with one of those who resigned from "Altai" several years ago - Valery Laizans. This person has experience working at a depth of 376 meters.

            “When officials say on TV that we don’t have specialists in our country who can work at a depth of 100 meters, I’m just shocked,” says Laizans.

            It turns out that if you do not take into account the people who still wear marine epaulets, then there are about five thousand retirees in the country who have the necessary experience working underwater. Everyone who even served as a deep-sea diver and worked without problems at a depth of 160 meters

            Nevertheless, I did not dream that we were driven around by the ears about the impossibility of the work of Russian divers at a depth of 100m. Therefore, I am indignant at such a blatant and frank lie, and there is no faith in the official version, although it is the most plausible.
            1. -1
              August 12 2012
              Quote: slan
              But I am outraged that the first days did not try to do it


              Chukchi is not a reader, Chukchi is a writer.
              Especially for you I will repeat:

              12 of August
              20.20 minutes received an order of hourly preparedness for rescue ships.

              13 of August
              00.55 An order is received by the operational duty officer on Rudnitsky’s exit to the site of the alleged death of the Kursk nuclear submarine.
              01.04/XNUMX A ship goes to sea
              09.32 Rudnitsky finally arrives in the area of ​​the death of Kursk.
              10.35 "Peter" found at the bottom two magnetic anomalies
              15.41 (15.30) AC-34 is ready for launch
              16.55 AC-34 began the first dive

              About divers. Tell me, what could divers do in this case to save the crew?

              AC-32-The purpose of an autonomous underwater working apparatus is: rescue personnel of sunken submarines and carry out the necessary work in the baffles of emergency-rescue devices together with the SPS pr. 1837 and other ships; installation and fixing of means for indicating the location of the sunken submarine and equipment for various purposes; point of various flooded objects for lifting by cargo vehicles of the carrier vessel and lifting goods weighing up to 500 kg (due to its own buoyancy); destruction of sunken objects or the failure of their equipment; additional search of sunken submarines or other objects after detection by search forces and their inspection ..
              1. slan
                -3
                August 13 2012
                Quote: Aleksys2
                Chukchi is not a reader, Chukchi is a writer.

                It is about you. I am already tired of repeating each of the putinoids:
                In the early days of the tragedy, the Russian leadership, represented by the media under control, launched an information campaign about the inability to not only save the crew, but also to conduct an elementary inspection of the boat without involving NATO specialists. A few days later. when the crew was guaranteed to die suddenly there were deep-sea vehicles and even those same Russian divers whose extinction we were hammered with from all the media. I am very glad that you learned to copy-paste, I hope, someday learn to comprehend the selected text.
                Find and ask someone close to you to explain (if you yourself are not able) what information the widows of the victims were given at that very moment, not to mention information for the people. Maybe then it will finally come and there are divers and whether they tried to save someone there or just quietly examined the damage, waited for the knocking to stop, after which the platform suddenly straightened and the hatch opened. Why was it at the highest level to lie that there were no means of salvation? Yes, because there was no rescue operation, they did not ask for help not only abroad, but also inside the country, they did not try to look for funds, but immediately announced the impossibility of working at "such" depth. And the depth turned out to be funny.
                1. -1
                  August 13 2012
                  RESCUE WORKS STARTED AUGUST 13 !!
                  Quote: slan
                  In the early days of the tragedy, the Russian leadership, represented by the media under control, launched an information campaign about the inability to not only save the crew, but also to conduct an elementary inspection of the boat without involving NATO specialists.


                  Give an example of publications!

                  Air Force, London, August 16, 18:35 GMT, 22:35 Moscow time
                  A Kremlin spokesman said Putin had held talks with Clinton about the fate of the Kursk submarine sailors. The two presidents 'conversation lasted about 25 minutes, and, according to Reuters, Clinton reaffirmed the United States' willingness to help Russia in the rescue operation.

                  Immediately after the end of these telephone conversations, Putin gave orders to accept any help in saving the submariners, no matter who they came from. Earlier, the command of the Russian fleet claimed to be able to do on its own.

                  Hopes that the crew is still alive reappeared after Vice-Admiral Vladislav Ilyin, First Deputy Chief of the Navy General Staff, said live on RTR television channel that the submariners were again responding to rescue signals.

                  Tonight, the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, Admiral Kuroyedov, announced that the supply of oxygen on board the boat should be sufficient until 25 August. The admiral is confident that the crew is "alive and fighting for the ship's buoyancy."

                  Other statements were less optimistic. Russian Navy press secretary Igor Dygalo explained in an interview with ORT that the difficulties in rescuing the Kursk's crew were caused by "non-standard damage" to the boat. That is, it is already obvious that the submariners will not be able to get out on their own, and salvation can only come from outside.

                  At the same time, at the time of preparation of this material, the British rescue boat LR5 was still in Norway, since it was not clear how best to deliver it to the Kursk. If the LR5 travels under its own power, it will approach the accident site only after two days. And then, apparently, it might be too late.


                  Apparently, you read only what you write, other comments, by definition, do not interest you. And then, where did you get the idea that I am Putin? The fact that I catch you on not knowing the issue does not apply me to the faithful Putiners. Once again, you need to be more thorough, more thorough, and Google will help you.
                  1. slan
                    -2
                    August 13 2012
                    And, of course, you are 13 years old. It explains everything. I don't need to google and copy-paste, I remember these events very well. First, they announced that the crew is alive and well, they are being given oxygen and tomorrow they will be raised, then they announced that we were joking at you, neither of us nor the diver has a single remaining in the country, not only technology, but "worlds"? ? ", and the" worlds "are not suitable for this, they were made for Spielberg and we have no idea what happened to this boat, either we found it, or our rusty instruments are buggy. A few days later, "okay, we still agree to allow our overseas masters to save our cattle-subjects if there is anyone else left." NATO servicemen came under the guise of peaceful Norwegian divers and took out the corpses, the first compartment was thoroughly destroyed with a control detonation and finally the version was announced to us.
                    Something like that, young man, it was.
                    1. 0
                      August 13 2012
                      Quote: slan
                      Something like that, young man, it was.

                      You flatter me, I’m far from being a boy. I also remember everything perfectly. And Dygalo’s statements too. But after that, I talked a lot with the participants in the events, and surface and submariners. And to say that the crew did not try to save, to put it mildly, is not correct. If you carefully read my posts (which I doubt), you noticed that our Diver was the first to board Kursk, both our and Norwegian divers worked.
                      1. slan
                        -1
                        August 13 2012
                        You see, you remember. Of course they tried, but how could people be forbidden to try? I'm talking about leadership behavior. Why was all this lie about the absence of divers and equipment in the country? Look at how people got it into their heads then, how many comments they wrote to me with this decompression. And it turns out that hours after the tragedy, underwater vehicles descended to the Kursk, and the divers must have descended, but at that very time all of us and even the widows of the dead were lied to something completely different. And Putin sneered with "she drowned" when everything was clear for a long time, except perhaps without details. The boat then stranded, in fact, sank among its own fleet, and we were presented with this as a kind of great secret that only the best NATO specialists can uncover.
                2. +1
                  August 13 2012
                  Quote: slan
                  Maybe then the divers finally get there and whether they tried to save someone there or just quietly examined the damage, waited for the cessation of knocks, after which the platform suddenly straightened and the hatch opened. Why at the highest level was to lie that there is no means of salvation?

                  It is somehow necessary to be a diver, something to calmly climb around the boat, waiting for the cessation of knocks !! ?? Maybe I myself am certainly not an ace, but I can’t imagine any of the divers - specialists who have personally known to me that from Kronstadt, that from Sevastopol, who are inactive over the hatch, for which the submariners die !!!
                  Here certainly bend sir!
                  Quote: slan
                  I am already tired of repeating each of the putinoids

                  For information - I have an attitude to Putin, like the Russian Orthodox Church, to abortion.
                  1. slan
                    -2
                    August 13 2012
                    Quote: Drednout
                    but I can’t imagine any of the divers

                    Yes, I’m just about the fact that it was not by chance that they announced to us that we suddenly do not have divers. By the way, do you believe that the FSB did not have full-time deep-sea divers, at least to inspect communication cables, or do you think the government communications collapsed in the 90s?
                    Can you imagine that people fight in war and execute sentences and people dropped the bomb on Hiroshima and not robots?
                    1. +1
                      August 13 2012
                      Quote: slan
                      By the way, do you believe that the FSB did not have full-time deep-sea divers, at least to inspect communication cables, or do you think the government communications collapsed in the 90s?

                      Fighting swimmers are for sure, as well as bombers, but rescuers are only naval and they are incapable of such vileness.
                      Do not look for a black cat in a dark room.
                3. +1
                  August 13 2012
                  Quote: slan
                  the leadership of the Russian Federation in the face of controlled media

                  This case is not about the echo of Moscow and others like them?
                  Yes
                  waited for the cessation of knocks

                  I do not advise you to meet with those who are waiting for the cessation of knocks firsthand. I do not advise .
              2. +1
                August 13 2012
                Quote: Aleksys2
                About divers. Tell me, what could divers do in this case to save the crew?

                Alexei, you need to have your namesake Ruswolfa wait for comments. He’s just on a quiet diving. Real ocean. Explains this can more clearly. I have only emotions left.
                1. slan
                  -1
                  August 13 2012
                  I was tired of repeating that they probably would not have saved anyone, but at least gave more detailed information about the inspection than underwater vehicles.
                  Well, the diving bell, again, does not require sealing, like, I'm not an expert of course.
                  So still, the question is not this, but why was this a lie?
  21. 37dmds
    +3
    August 12 2012
    Article plus. But Lyachin was a commander. Captains on VolgaBalt and tugboats.
    1. +2
      August 12 2012
      Good memory to the guys!
  22. mar.tira
    +3
    August 12 2012
    Torpedo developers do not agree with the conclusions of the commission and believe that the cause of the torpedo explosion is external impact

    The explosion of the fuel components of the 65-76 torpedo, which killed the Kursk nuclear submarine, could have occurred only as a result of external impact on the torpedo, Stanislav Proshkin, director of the Gidropribor Central Research Institute, told Interfax.

    "We objectively believe that there was an external impact on the torpedo," he said. "There is information that it could have been a local fire."

    In particular, noted Proshkin, "on top of the torpedo in front of the ballast tank there are changes in the structure of the metal from the temperature effect." According to a study carried out by the Central Research Institute "Prometey", which has the most competent specialists in the field of materials science, "clear estimates of this temperature - 550-570 degrees Celsius" were obtained.

    The nuclear submarine "Kursk" had two autonomous, independent control systems. "And any event associated with an increase in pressure inside the tank compartment, an increase in the temperature of peroxide, an increase in the level of oxygen in the gap between the torpedo and the torpedo tube is recorded," Proshkin added.

    “If an increase in temperature is noted in the torpedo tube or on the rack, the crew has six hours to cope with this emergency,” he said. “Including using a special system for draining peroxide overboard if an increase in the temperature of the torpedo on the rack is noted. In the event of a fire, the boat has a powerful fire extinguishing system that instantly drops tens of tons of water. If a torpedo is in a torpedo tube, it is simply fired and the water environment localizes it. "

    The head of Gidropribor also called an absurd version that the cause of the torpedo's thermal explosion could have been a breach of its tightness as a result of a fall that allegedly occurred during loading. "When testing torpedoes, we throw such a torpedo from a height of 10 meters onto a plate, a rail and a pin," he noted, "and there were no emergency situations."

    In the course of the investigation into the case of the Kursk sinking, 18 versions were put forward
  23. +2
    August 12 2012
    I read Ryazantsev's book "In wake formation after death". Much has become clear, and alas, the explosion is quite logical and inevitable.
    Read this book, it explains a lot.
    1. 0
      August 12 2012
      The third comment on the book "In the wake of death" and no discussion. And this is with 7 views of the article! People, this is not an advertisement for a book, I don’t get copyrights, but they would ask! Everything is stated there in clear language.
  24. derk365
    +1
    August 12 2012
    Everlasting memory !!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5voSKV-nEwE

    After what happened, they will lie for a long time.
    Will tell if the commission how difficult it is to die. !!!
  25. vostok-47
    -11
    August 12 2012
    I have a slightly different theory ... In my opinion, we simply blew up the shipmarine without a crew, so as not to damage the reactors ... You ask why? And do you think a boat is worth the state debt of Russia ??? How did we force the US to pay it? Very simple! For starters, we attracted the attention of Americans, so that at the time of the tests, there were Chinese together with Putin (the sale of the Flurry to the Chinese would greatly undermine the American fighting spirit in the vastness of the Pacific Ocean). And then we provoked an American submarine to attack and from above just clicked on a button ... and there is neither Kursk nor public debt .. The crew most likely lives now somewhere in the vastness of our homeland.
    What brought me to this idea? The answer is very simple: an interview with Putin with how he was there - Stephen King if I am not mistaken ... What kind of person will go to America, knowing what he will be asked about ??? His answer to the question "What happened to Kursk" he answered "She drowned" with a certain grin .... Ambiguously not true?
    1. +5
      August 12 2012
      I would-only - For, but I saw the widows of the crew, unfortunately you are wrong.
  26. mar.tira
    +3
    August 12 2012
    And besides, in the case there are results of experiments conducted by specialists of the RSC “Applied Chemistry”. And they show that: “... ignition in a torpedo tube occurs only in the case of a drop of spillage of hydrogen peroxide,” and further: “... maintaining a fire in a confined space of a torpedo tube is possible only when a peroxide is spilled at a speed of about 200 grams per give me a sec".
    And the point here is that a more powerful jet simply extinguishes the fire, and with a lower pressure of hydrogen peroxide, the Fire itself suffocates - there is enough air inside the torpedo tube for only 1,5 seconds of burning. And here you do not need to be either a deputy prime minister or a prosecutor general, but you need enough knowledge in chemistry for the 5th grade: regular oxidant supply is required to maintain combustion in a confined space.

    , during the experiments it was also found out that the fuel in our torpedoes is very resistant to high temperature and even with strong heating it does not explode for a very long time (which one is to be kept quiet so as not to tempt foreign intelligence). And that means, if you seriously adhere to the official version, it should be imagined that at the time of the Kursk accident, a fire in the 4th torpedo tube blasts, fire sirens roar, sensors flash, but none of the crew lead with their ears, and the sailors in this time they calmly light cigarettes from the red-hot torpedo tube cover ... Something is awkward so far with official conclusions. It seems that this is not a torpedo, and the official version flows at all seams

    Well, this is for a lover of Western advanced technology. , during the experiments it was also found out that the fuel in our torpedoes is very resistant to high temperature and even with strong heating it does not explode for a very long time (which one is to be kept quiet so as not to tempt foreign intelligence). And that means, if you seriously adhere to the official version, it should be imagined that at the time of the Kursk accident, a fire in the 4th torpedo tube blasts, fire sirens roar, sensors flash, but none of the crew lead with their ears, and the sailors in this time they calmly light cigarettes from the red-hot torpedo tube cover ... Something is awkward so far with official conclusions. It seems that this is not a torpedo, and the official version flows at all seams
  27. Prosto vovochka
    +5
    August 12 2012
    two of the most terrible and groinish professions are submariners and miners. The bottom and the dungeon are all to them.
  28. mar.tira
    +1
    August 12 2012
    Here is a link about an independent disaster investigation: -http: //left.ru/2002/leto/kursk.html. Anyone interested to read.
    1. Eraser
      -1
      August 12 2012
      I recommend turning on the brain and re-reading this pearl of the journalist's thought, namely the chapter "The Mysterious Spot".
    2. +1
      August 13 2012
      From the above "independent nonsense" it follows that the 314th Indians sank Kursk, thus planning to remove from the armament of the Russian Navy, a torpedo that the American admirals fear. Big delirium can only be called a film by French journalist.
  29. +1
    August 12 2012
    everlasting memory.
    some told me how they had been collected and told: to be ready for hostilities and wait for the order. After a few hours, the order would end, and some kind of agrarian debt was written off from Russia
  30. +2
    August 12 2012
    The filthiness of the rulers in hushing up the causes of the tragedy "Kursk" twelve years ago is superimposed on today's silence and distraction of the celebration of the hundredth anniversary of the Air Force. I am not against 100 years of the Air Force (I myself flew 15 years on the Il-28 and An-12), but to push our heads together and slip a holiday instead of a tragedy - I call this filth.
    1. +2
      August 12 2012
      Why am I writing?
      I congratulate my comrade on the Air Force holiday (he lives in A-Ata), and he answers me - today is the memorial day of Kursk, and we celebrate the Air Force day on August 18, regardless of the weekend. Like this.
  31. 6o6er
    +1
    August 12 2012
    All of this is one big reason for the foolishness in the armed forces and in the country as a whole. What did a boat 150 meters long do in the area where the depth is 100 ??? What X was put on the boat an abnormal torpedo of caliber 650, which the crew saw for the first time in their eyes, but at the same time there were specialists from the dagdiesel on the boat ...
    Why did the search for the boat begin so late, did the speakers on the ships hear a big boom? It was clear to everyone that there were only a few divers in the country, and there wasn’t anyone able to do anything in the Navy. Why didn’t they immediately accept help from Amers and Norwegians? people could be saved ... many questions and the answer is the same, and I already wrote about it ...
    1. +1
      August 12 2012
      Quote: 6o6er
      Why did the search for the boat begin so late? Acoustics on the ships heard a big boom


      The speakers on ships and boats did not hear the big boom. They began to look late because before that they were looking for a torpedo "lost" by another boat, which also fired practical torpedoes, and they began to search for "Kursk" when it expired two communication sessions.
      1. 0
        August 12 2012
        Quote: Aleksys2
        They began to search too late because before that they were looking for a torpedo "lost" by another boat, which also fired practical torpedoes,

        Doesn’t tell anyone about anything?
        1. -1
          August 12 2012
          It was very far from Kursk
    2. loader
      0
      August 12 2012
      One thing is clear - in such fights innocent people always die ... even during the Second World War, authorities said that they say take care of the tanks, and we still give birth to people. So it is here. For Putin, you see, these submariners are also meat.
      1. 0
        August 12 2012
        Quote: Loader
        Even during the Second World War, authorities said that they say take care of the tanks, and we will give birth to people.


        Who spoke? When did you speak? Facts to the studio !!
        1. slan
          -1
          August 12 2012
          Quote: Aleksys2
          Who spoke? When did you speak? Facts to the studio !!

          free exposition of a well-known quote attributed to G.K.Zhukov
          Do not worry, it looks silly.
          1. -1
            August 12 2012
            Quote: slan
            Do not worry, it looks silly.


            What looks stupid?
            Zhukov did not say that.
            Zhukov on punishment for excessive losses was punished.
            1. slan
              -1
              August 12 2012
              And I write that I did not say, but they attribute to him.
              It is foolish when they begin to demand evidence, references, and the justification of widespread, albeit misconceptions.
              1. 0
                August 12 2012
                Misconceptions must be fought!
      2. +1
        August 13 2012
        Actually, this is Apraksin’s phrase. And not about tanks, but about horses
  32. +3
    August 12 2012
    Unfortunately, the version of Le Carré looks the most justified, and the fact that human life can be measured in money is the most disappointing discovery.
  33. loader
    +2
    August 12 2012
    Stas57, Question - WHY Sawed Off?
    1. slan
      0
      August 12 2012
      So that the remains do not fall off when climbing.
      The good question is, why was it so thoroughly destroyed after that without raising a fragment and showing it to no one but the Norwegians?
      The original working method of the commission of inquiry, isn't it?
      1. +1
        August 12 2012
        Quote: slan
        why did they then destroy him so carefully without raising a fragment and showing them to no one but the Norwegians?


        If you are not up to speed, then it is better to remain silent than to show your incompetence. When the operation to lift the bodies was carried out, what was left of the first compartment, several tons of fragments, rose in parallel.
        1. slan
          -4
          August 12 2012
          I see a torpedo from the first compartment here in the comments. Maybe something like that was lifted up like the cover of a torpedo tube, but not fragments of the compartment, by the nature of the destruction of which it would be possible to judge the nature of the explosion, were thoroughly blown up at the bottom, that's about it. Isn't that the most glorious thing. what should be raised and investigated? Or maybe you google photos on which destruction would be visible? For some reason, photos that show the construction of the raised part of the submarine as much as you want. We have no secrets from anyone now with this. But for some reason, the discreet first compartment is a mystery, but not for Norwegian divers.
          So, I also remember very well how this very first compartment should have been raised. Then, after talking about it, we waited for the cooling of attention to this tragedy and quietly and peacefully blew everything up at the bottom.
          Be quiet better yourself with your advice, you are our competent.
          1. slan
            -2
            August 12 2012
            Putintsy, so where are the photographs of the destroyed first compartment, proving the explosion of torpedoes without external influence?
            Are these photos more secret than all that was shown to the Norwegian intelligence agents?
            Or can you only troll and minus?
      2. loader
        +1
        August 13 2012
        Well, in my opinion, everything is clear here - the Kursk nuclear submarine is a secret development of the Russian Navy
  34. +1
    August 12 2012
    We will always remember you ...

    Rest in peace.
  35. Samovar
    0
    August 12 2012
    But what's the point now about the reasons to argue? You can’t bring the guys back anyway. Eternal memory to them ...
    1. 0
      August 12 2012
      Quote: Samovar
      But what's the point now about the reasons to argue? You can’t bring the guys back anyway.


      That would not destroy others !!
  36. Archer
    +3
    August 12 2012
    The kingdom of heaven to all those who died at sea for Russia!
  37. -1
    August 12 2012
    Hello ... New Year ... There the faucet was two hours away ... we push ... we hook ... we raise ... here is the answer ... the truth is so disgusting ... that the story of recruiting GDP German intelligence comparing the grandfather's garden for a walk ...
    1. 0
      August 13 2012
      Quote: ward
      There the faucet at two o’clock was ... pushing ... catching ... lifting ...


      What are we clinging to? And how do we raise it? What is the crane capacity?

      Sunday, August 13th:
      11.30. The chief of staff of the Federation Council ordered the PK-7500 floating cranes with the autonomous shell AS-36 on board and the sea tug MB-100 to be prepared for access to the area.
      Monday August 14th:
      16.00 p.m. The PK-100 floating crane (captain-cranemeister A. Porubailo) arrived in the search and rescue area in tug MB-7500 with an autonomous shell AS-36 on board. Due to weather deterioration (wind - up to 10 meters per second, sea - 3 points), the AS-36 could not be unloaded. It was decided to send the PK-7500 with the AS-36 on board to the shelter point - Porchnikha Bay for unloading the AS-36 into the water and then towing it to the accident site.
      Payload PK-7500 500 tons
      1. -2
        August 14 2012
        You are online ... like ... I needed it, I looked ...
        1. 0
          August 14 2012
          Quote: ward
          I needed it, I looked ...


          A reference, if not difficult.
          For there were no "faucets" two hours away.
          1. -2
            August 14 2012
            In no case ... find yourself what and when they overtook it .... tired ...
            1. 0
              August 15 2012
              Quote: ward
              In no case ... find yourself what and when they overtook it .... tired ...

              What are you tired of? If you have no idea what a training ground is, then these are your difficulties. If you use dubious information, then this is also your problem. I have not seen on the Internet a mention of the "faucet" located two hours away, but there are many references that the floating crane was driven from the base, and it came to the scene of the tragedy a day after leaving. I denied your post, you didn’t bring anything as proof, from here the conclusion is “to trend, not to roll bags”. Tired of him ..
  38. +4
    August 12 2012
    EVERLASTING MEMORY......
    The song Captain Kolesnikov .... takes the soul as you imagine, write in the dark ... men who are so lacking in the country
  39. 0
    August 12 2012
    Putin forever burn in hell for the boys ... Earth you rest in peace guys!
  40. +2
    August 12 2012
    Everlasting memory..
    And it's a shame that we never know the truth.
  41. Arsen
    0
    August 12 2012
    After WWII, the British fleet tried to work with German hydrogen peroxide technology. The result was summed up by a certain British admiral - "the best thing that can be done with technologies based on hydrogen peroxide is to try to interest your potential enemy in them."
    1. 0
      August 12 2012
      Arsen, by the way, they didn’t believe in the FAA until they started pouring on their heads .... The British figured out how much gunpowder it would take for such a rocket to fly and said it was impossible ... And the Americans were only 90 -s were able to figure out the FW-190 control system .... So they are far from being an authority ...
    2. 0
      August 13 2012
      Well done! I've been waiting for such a comment for a long time. That's exactly what the British did! Many people got the technology of the Germans, and from time to time there were accidents on submarines. The British "delicately" kept silent about their own and conducted misinformation about the continuation of the work.
  42. Voin sveta82
    0
    August 12 2012
    .... Putin ... at that time shitty showed himself ..... - passed his ....)))) I will never forgive him this bitch trick ....)))) It's a pity for the boys and officers - waited until the last and no one came to the aid on time ..... eh .... damn ....- would tear to shreds those who are involved in this ... suckers ....
  43. Nubia2
    +2
    August 12 2012
    Quote: Specialist -
    Americans fucked and flooded - 100%

    here is your opinion during the investigation, and did not take into account ..
    you would immediately tell everything as it was))))
  44. mind1954
    0
    August 12 2012
    Most of all I was shocked by the ratio of boat length and depth!
    And that her stern could not be picked up on any "pontoons" ?!
    And why was it so long sought in a famous area at such a depth?
    And why all these submarine detection aircraft?

    However, recalling the chaos that was then in the country, I do not wait for an answer
    to these questions. Yes, and from the fleet, even then, a wet spot remained.
    And besides, do not forget that in 1998 it was implemented
    coup and citizen Putin only did that he swore allegiance
    west and everything was trying to meet Clinton, who ignored him!
    So, in such an atmosphere could be anything !!!
    1. slan
      -3
      August 12 2012
      Yes, the fact of the matter is that there were no problems to find, inspect and raise. There was only one problem - they could not tell the truth.
      And there are very reasonable doubts that what we heard at the end of the "work of the commission" is true. Otherwise, why was it worth so absurdly lying and clumsily destroying evidence at the bottom (first compartment) without even taking photos?
    2. 0
      August 13 2012
      Quote: mind1954
      However, recalling the chaos that was then in the country, I do not wait for an answer
      to these questions. Yes, and from the fleet, even then, a wet spot remained.

      Yes, WE ALL VERY FAST FORGOTTEN what Russia of 2000 was like.
      Very fast . not good.
  45. 16
    16
    0
    August 12 2012
    eternal memory !!!!!!!! and what they write --- During the investigation, it was found that the Bullfinch tape recorder was turned off on the boat, which was supposed to record the crew’s conversations over the speakerphone, corresponding to its inclusion was in the off position. According to the regulations, during the preparation of the training attack, this equipment should have been turned on. In addition, it was found that the emergency buoy alarm was not turned on at the Kursk nuclear submarine and for several years the emergency antenna ejection system was turned off. The factory mounting device, which simply did not allow the buoy to surface, was not removed from the emergency buoy -------- nonsense !!!! the crew and the commander specifically were excellent and they knew their job !!!!!!!! !!!! there was a ------------ attack of another boat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  46. REPA1963
    -5
    August 12 2012
    Judging by the discussion, fans of medveputov, as they say, "at least a piss in the eye is still God's dew"
    1. thatupac
      +2
      August 12 2012
      But you do not have authority in our mouth e..t which, hehe ...
  47. not good
    +2
    August 12 2012
    Information for consideration:
    - BZO "fat woman" is equipped with FS (high power). This explosive is phlegmatized with appropriate additives and withstands the hit of a 30 mm projectile without a volumetric explosion, but only with a local flash.
    - a torpedo fuse has up to 3 degrees of protection and independently, without a torpedo exit from a TA, it is not technically possible to get into a combat state;
    - during the operation of hydrogen peroxide torpedoes, there were several contingencies related including with a leak of hydrogen peroxide, but not one did not lead to the explosion of a torpedo.
    And yet, some time after the death of the Kursk, the automatic torpedo attack system was disabled on the American nuclear submarines.
    1. 0
      August 13 2012
      I'm waiting for information about disabling such a system on the US nuclear submarine
  48. +1
    August 12 2012
    I don't believe in the official conclusions. The country's leadership did not want to raise the Kursk. The truth could be established by the nature of the explosion, so the first compartment was sawed off and destroyed on the spot. The truth will emerge only after the departure of all those involved from the power structures, and judging by the fact that the LADY is going to change places with the GDP in 6 years, this will not happen soon. Eternal memory to the guys. Sincerely.
    1. thatupac
      0
      August 13 2012
      The death of Kursk is a conspiracy of a backstage Zionist gebni. So let's write it down.
  49. +3
    August 13 2012
    I would like to read the comments of the divers themselves. Preferably with warhead 3 and sonar.
    1. max-02215
      +3
      August 13 2012
      Of course, I am not a great specialist, but all the same, I have a notion about mine and torpedo armament, since we were seriously trained as commanders of the BC-3 in a sailor, so torpedoes and RSL have several degrees of protection, completely excluding a spontaneous explosion, we gave an example - on the TFR 50 pr, managed to make a shot from the TA in the stowed position, and so, the torpedo pierced the superstructure and nothing ... until the last stage is removed, there will be no explosion, especially since the explosive is not banal TNT, but sea ​​mix,. Well, this is what it was necessary to apply on the TA, so that the torpedo detonated, but a direct hit from a torpedo is quite likely, especially since it "arrives" just between the first and second compartments.
      At the expense of degrees, as far as I can’t remember exactly, something like this: the first one is taken off when entering data, the second when leaving the TA, the next one at the first turn (so as not to get into oneself) then at the second turn, and then I don’t remember, but it seemed to be a couple
  50. 0
    August 13 2012
    By chance, the author of these lines had to deal with the death of “Kursk” from the moment of the first official announcement on August 13 that “the boat lay on the ground”, and up to the moment of lifting the remains of the missile carrier and placing it in the Roslyakovo dock. All this time I kept the official website Kursk.ru, where online information about the rescue operation appeared online. After that, in another publication, he wrote another year about the progress of the investigation. At the end of 2004, an unexpected proposal appeared from the Prosecutor General’s Office to write a script and make a film based on the book by the Prosecutor General Vladimir Ustinov “The Truth About Kursk”. At the first meeting, I honestly said that I did not completely trust the official version of the absence of those responsible for this disaster, and I believe that the prosecutor's office has something to hide. The senior investigator for particularly important cases of the Chief Military Prosecutor’s Office, Arthur Egiev, did not convince me of anything, brought to his office all 118 volumes of the case and a couple dozen volumes with video applications and said: “That's it - study it and draw conclusions yourself.” I doubted again - the matter can be falsified. Yes, it is possible, Yegiev agreed, but only when one person leads him. A team of almost 50 investigators worked right there, hundreds of experts from various organizations from military to forensic and civilian experts conducted examinations, and almost 1000 witnesses gave testimonies. If someone had hidden something, then sooner or later it would have surfaced.
  51. Morgan stanley
    +2
    August 13 2012
    If the Americans really sank the boat, then the 2000s were not the time for war, because the Russian Federation after the EBN was still weak, and Putin had just arrived. I think that Putin will remind the Americans about Kursk. That's why everyone says that Americans are afraid of Putin.
  52. Alex63
    0
    August 13 2012
    You forget who Yeltsin brought by the hand to the presidency. And this "posadysh" did not need the truth about the Kursk. Again I'm waiting for the negatives.
  53. 0
    August 13 2012
    So was international help needed? Now, when many of the events of those tragic days are seen differently, it is absolutely clear that neither English nor Norwegian help was absolutely needed, because the tragic outcome of the situation with the Kursk was already completely clear to the professionals. The decision to invite the “Varangians” was more a political decision than dictated by real necessity.
    — I didn’t need foreigners! The decision on them was made without me. I was at sea all the time, and I had no time for them, - this is how Admiral Vyacheslav Popov answered this question.
    However, mass psychosis, fueled primarily by the media, took its toll. From morning to evening they shouted furiously from television screens about the lack of domestic means of rescue, about the need for immediate reprisals against the leadership of the Ministry of Defense and the Navy. It never even occurred to anyone that from a depth of more than 100 meters, divers, no matter how experienced they may be, would never be able to save a single person on their own. At their first attempt to open the hatch into the 9th compartment, all the people who were there would have died immediately, if not from the release of air (with its release the air cushion in which people could still breathe would have disappeared), then from the pressure drop, which instantly amounted to would be more than 10 atmospheres. It is possible to rescue submariners from such depths only by “dry” means, that is, as a result of the suction of the underwater vehicle. The fact of the flooding of the airlock chamber and the deformation of the coaming platform indicated that not a single device, neither ours nor foreign, would be able to stick to its mirror.
    Then, in August 2000, there was a lot of talk about the “criminal delay in seeking help from the all-powerful world community.” Why haven’t the Navy leadership been accused of anything in connection with this? It was agreed that the rescue operation was being disrupted deliberately and deliberately in order to hide the true cause of the tragedy from the public and protect oneself from unwanted witnesses. It is impossible to imagine greater blasphemy! However, while politicians and journalists were making accusations, our guys were doing everything in their power to save their comrades. And they would definitely have saved them if they had even one chance in a thousand. Alas, there was no such chance...
  54. +1
    August 13 2012
    From the certificate in criminal case No. 29/00/0016/00 about the death of the Kursk anti-aircraft missile system, published by Prosecutor General V. Ustinov:
    A criminal case was initiated on August 23, 2000 on the grounds of a crime under Part 3 of Art. 263 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - violation of traffic safety rules and operation of maritime transport, resulting in the death of two or more persons through negligence. I would like to remind you that at the initial stage of the preliminary investigation we had extremely limited information about the disaster. In this regard, 18 working versions were put forward about its causes. The main ones were the following:
    — collision of the Kursk anti-aircraft missile system with a Russian or foreign submarine or surface ship;
    — defeat of the Kursk anti-ship missile system by a torpedo or missile by a Russian or foreign submarine or surface ship;
    - sabotage;
    - detonation of the Kursk APRK on a mine from the Great Patriotic War;
    — the death of the Kursk anti-aircraft missile system as a result of an emergency situation with its weapons.
    ...The objectivity of the conclusions of the preliminary investigation and the causes of death of the Kursk APRK is based on numerous scientific and multiple instrumental-analytical studies of a huge number (more than 2000) of fragments raised from the bottom of the Barents Sea and recovered from the 1-3rd compartments of the Kursk APRK ", including more than 30 fragments belonging to an exploded practical torpedo and more than 10 fragments of torpedo tube No. 4, in which this torpedo was located. Recorded changes in the material of the fragments (degree of deformation, features of the microstructure of the metal and the microrelief of the fracture surfaces) that occurred as a result of explosions are objective “witnesses” of the events that took place.
  55. levanchik8444
    -4
    August 13 2012
    Look at the independent investigation “Submarine in troubled waters” by French journalists, everything is clear there... The Americans got into trouble
    1. +2
      August 13 2012
      yes, exactly patApili. The French know everything much better than us, who would doubt it.

      They say the spies poisoned the water with moonshine, but now the bread is made from fish scales. (c) V. Vysotsky
  56. +2
    August 13 2012
    It seems to me that the “torpedo hole” is too big for the Mk-48.
    In addition, the hull of the boat is concave towards the hole. What kind of energy must a toreda have to tangentially (!) leave such a dent. At the Black Sea Fleet, when training torpedoes were fired at ships, there was only a blow to the hull (a training torpedo is an ordinary one, only instead of a warhead it has a rubber knob).
    Compare the diameter of the hole with the height of people - at least a meter. Calculate what the speed should be!
    1. 0
      August 13 2012
      The same doubts plague me. the hole is too big and only in a light body. but the diameter of the hole is comparable to the distance to the durable hull....
      1. 0
        August 13 2012
        Quote: dmitreach
        The same doubts plague me. the hole is too big and only in a light body. but the diameter of the hole is comparable to the distance to the durable hull....

        In the period from November 5 to 7, Norwegian divers cut the outer case in the dent area on the starboard side of the front section of the 2nd compartment and in the place of a cruciform tear on the starboard side in the region of the 2nd compartment. These works were completed successfully.
  57. Gaiver
    0
    August 13 2012
    I assume that it was the Americans who sank our submarine with their new torpedo, the people were under water for a long time, like a couple or 3 days, and at the same time they were freezing sos, then comes the year 2000, the new prize-winner Putin (little experience, confusion) who knows everything that the amers sank her, in the strength of our ruined country decides not to raise the liner, despite the fact that even we were offered equipment to lift it.. If we raise a boat with living people, they will tell lies to the media and everyone, So the decision is deplorable, But with this we can avoid a nuclear war, and then they came to us amers and covered our debt to them and even gave us compensation.. It seemed to me that it was very difficult for Putin at that time.. leave to perish for the sake of peace
  58. +1
    August 13 2012
    "Lies and betrayal all around" Nicholas II
  59. Odinplys
    +1
    August 14 2012
    Whatever it is...we won't know the truth soon....
    Memory of the fallen...courage to relatives...
    In war as in war ...
  60. 0
    August 15 2012
    If you compare the two photographs, you can see that there is no penetration of the pressure hull, so this hole on the starboard side can hardly be considered a torpedo mark, although it is very similar. I also want to say that immediately after the sinking of the Kursk, an emergency white-green buoy was noticed in the sea, then this information was hushed up.

    2 photos for comparison
    1. 0
      August 15 2012
      not a buoy, but a jellyfish that looks like a buoy. This is exactly what the message from Peter the Great sounded like.
  61. 0
    August 15 2012
    This is what Putin said at a meeting with the mothers and wives of Kursk sailors
    quote:
    Putin. You know, we have no other information, no other versions. Or a real collision, or a mine, perhaps an explosion inside the boat, although experts do not think so - practically unrealistic, but theoretically possible. I repeat: in addition to the military, I also talked with technical specialists, which means the hole is very large - one and a half by two meters. Apparently from an explosion. The explosion was so powerful that, of course, in the first compartments the tragedy occurred within one and a half to two minutes...

    Then it’s not clear why the entire bow of the submarine would be cut off because of a hole of one and a half by two meters???
    1. 0
      August 15 2012
      I recommend reading the timeline of the tragedy and rescue operation first. This is so as not to ask unnecessary questions and not to indulge your imagination. There is an answer to the question of why cut off the first compartment
  62. yurypetrunin
    0
    August 19 2012
    Submariners will understand why when the rescue buoy is NOT RELEASED
    there were problems with the rescue bell. Yuri.
  63. yurypetrunin
    0
    17 September 2012
    http://www.deepstorm.ru/DeepStorm.files/45-92/articl/37-1.htm
    Here is about the explosion of torpedoes in 1962 on a B-37 in Polyarny. The boat, with two compartments torn off, remained afloat. Kursk and the crew were destroyed by the decision
    Lyachina dive in! And this decision was imposed on him by the leadership of the Fleet. I stated the reasons here earlier. Yu Petrunin
  64. DeX
    DeX
    0
    10 September 2013
    The official version is of course nonsense. There is one interesting book, “Swept Abyss. The death of the "Kursk" is called, the author is N.A. Cherkashin, and so, all versions of what happened are considered and analyzed there, and the author, by the way, is also a submariner in the past, and therefore understands perfectly well and is well versed in what he writes about, leaning towards versions that there was a collision with an American submarine
    1. yurypetrunin
      0
      10 September 2013
      Kolya Cherkashin is a former political officer with the B-409. And that's it.
      And for him, the reference book is the materials of the CPSU congresses, and not the RBZh PL and other documents. And the literary gift of all political officers is very developed and adapts to the party line. And of course, for Nikolai (I know him personally, they served at the same time, lived in the same barracks) without America, like Mikhail Zadornov, it’s absolutely impossible.
      On Cherkashin’s boat, for his military service, the largest crossword puzzle in the world was compiled (which everyone in Polyarny had heard about), glued from grid cards. As an example: -A cloudy hangover drink? Not kvass at all, but brine.
      Use logic, comrade officers.
      Yu. Petrunin. Polyarny, Gatchina
      1. yurypetrunin
        0
        10 September 2013
        And I’ll add for those who write the name of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief with a small letter.
        yurypetrunin RU June 17, 2013 17:22 | Submarine Fleet, RBZh, Russia and Putin

        Does Putin know the structure of a submarine? Does he know that ASB cannot be brewed, that the buitros from the ASB will lie on the coaming area and will not allow the bell to stick? Who should know this? Putin or Lyachin?
        Putin said as he said: “She drowned,” and did not come out with the icon like Dygalo, the son of the eldest Dygalo, to the people to speak Kuroyedov’s mantras about knocks from a solid body. Present your claims to V. Popov, and not to Putin.
        Yuri Petrunin
  65. Kostya pedestrian
    0
    July 23 2014
    As Mr. Antonov sings:

    They say that in our century
    Nothing can surprise you
    They say the secrets have disappeared
    Sliding along the sea waves.

    They say it's on the map now
    There are no more white spots
    They say it is now known
    An answer to any question.

    Chorus:

    But still, but still, what interest do we have?
    Without risk of living and without thrills?
    But still, but still I really want miracles
    And the most impossible adventures!

    And I thought to myself, remembering how South Koreans love to torture dogs to secrete a special enzyme that prolongs their life. There are all sorts of crazy shows in Japan. Can't they combine both bread and circuses?

    I wonder if maybe the owners of the Sailor's Silence restaurant will tell you, they say Masons can foresee the future and control the universe.

    Probably also skilled chefs? (I

    Maybe the Kursk didn’t just sink, maybe it was blown up by a UFO, and the crew, as depicted in the Mitkov gallery, are like the Australians who were not sent into battle, but thrown to be devoured in Gallipoli.

    Rumor has it that 267 members of the Royal Australian Army were abducted by a UFO?

    I won’t develop the topic about “Hard Target”; illiterate people don’t know that it’s a bad omen to wear gas on yourself. But I’d recommend watching about The Mummy. Countless treasures, Egyptian women - beauties, and generally pleasant actors. Especially the sweet girl who also starred in Enemy at the Gates

    PieS: For the Baltic people, I will add that they also tried to make you illiterate. Have you heard the word “magic”, G - can also be read as L. Ask the guys from the team of builders from “Our Russia”, they dug such a den! Back in 1996, I was carrying a Minsk crystal chandelier across the world, although it was very beautiful, but they made a hole in the floor, and...

    By the way, walking near Asian chukmekom, my schizophrenia begins to chatter, sometimes frighteningly, in pure Russian. True, now it’s much more vocal. Thank you.

    Arigato, pi(da)rates! Are you feasting while the Slavs are being killed?

    PieS: and for people who know who the real Lithuanians are, as it is displayed on the Wikipedia page “knight”, and not by the Greek -atas and -chis, then I will say that I really liked the picture of Zi Mitkov, where a sailor hugs a woman in orange .

    By the way, do you know what roof means in Lithuanian? Stogas?
  66. Kostya pedestrian
    0
    July 23 2014
    And say hello to Seryoga from the Far East, from Mrs. Monika and from me.

    On the armored personnel carrier, not to be confused with the Boston terrorist attack, I, as in the songs, “ordered” me, without delay, for 6 months. Well, it’s a black spot on the asphalt, in the form of an armored personnel carrier’s nose, on the horn opposite the park’s Telstra with the code of the colony. There they were also installing a “stage 2” fence, and they were going to repair the pier.

    (yefpu = Hu wonts war?
  67. Kostya pedestrian
    0
    August 10 2014
    I, personally, am a big collector of KV-1 tank models, incl. KV-1S. The appearance of the formidable machine, as well as its fur, are worthy of respect.

    UFO is what made me write this comment, the tales of Jabba the Hut. Or about kwa kings. It turns out that German folklore is simply teeming with them. And this is how interesting it is that the word toad is translated into languages ​​in Google Translator.

    PieS: this has never happened to you, you are driving down the street, immersed in your thoughts, and here, like in the cartoon about “Simpson-Lone,” they are trying to break through your consciousness from the outside. And is this connected either with advertising or with Asian hypnotist snipers midgets?
    It seems that their flu does not save people from criminals, but helps criminals drag honest people to the other side of the law. Werewolves in uniform.

    toad =
    Vietnamese cóc
    Japanese ヒキガエル (Huh?)
    Germanic Kröte
    Finnish rupikonna

    By the way, have you heard about the toad from the German city of Bautzen?
    Here is an example of the tower of St. Nicholas the Wonderworker (from Lake Peipsi) in the same city.

    Sprechen ze Lithuanian oichinny, deutsch nols?
  68. +15
    November 4, 2017
    Tragedy with seven unknowns

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