Military Review

State flags of Russia. Three stripes, but which ones?

239

Russian trade tricolor over a replica of the Peter's vessel


Oh Russia! forget the former glory:
The two-headed eagle is afflicted
And yellow children for fun
Given the shreds of your banners.
V.S.Soloviev. Panmongolism


Long way to the state flag. Subject stories The VO readers liked the flags. All of them agreed that this topic, even if it is rich to disbelief, but the third article should be devoted to the flag of Russia. And it even turns out somehow inconvenient: where is our flag? And our story is no less interesting than that of Italian. The same ancient and full of myths. For example, for some reason, some people believe that the flag of the same Ivan the Terrible was red. And this despite the fact that the description of the "Great Banner" of Ivan IV (1560) and himself have survived. This is what the “great banner” looked like, sewn according to the medieval tradition from fabrics of different colors and, in addition, covered with embroidered images. It was “built” (then they wrote “build”, not sew!) From Chinese taffeta with one “slope”, that is, with a triangular braid at the top. The middle was azure (light blue), the slope was sugar (that is, white), the border around the main panel was lingonberry, and around the slope was poppy. In the middle of the azure cloth there was a circle of dark blue taffeta, in which there was an image of the Savior in white clothes and on a white horse. Around this circle were embroidered golden cherubim and seraphim, and to the left of the circle and under it were also a large heavenly host, also in white clothes and on white horses. Another circle was sewn into the slope, but this time made of white taffeta, and in it was Saint Michael the Archangel with a sword in his right hand and a cross in his left, on a golden winged horse. At the same time, both the middle and the entire slope were embroidered with gold - crosses and stars.


"Great banner" of Tsar Ivan the Terrible

Another banner is known, which is referred to in the chronicle description of the siege of Kazan by Ivan the Terrible in 1552 and where it is said: “and the sovereign of the kherugvi ordered the Christian to unfold, that is to say, the banner, on them the image of our Lord Jesus Christ Not Made by Hands” After the seizure of Kazan at the banner, which had the name of the "Most Merciful Savior," not only was a solemn prayer service immediately served, but in the place where this flag stood during the siege, the tsar ordered to erect a church! That is, this banner played the role of a kind of icon and was colored accordingly icon-painting, and not at all worldly canons. And we are very lucky that this historical banner has survived to this day and is now kept in Armory chamber of the Kremlin. Its length is 4 arshins 2 vershoks (i.e. about 3 meters), its height is 2 arshins 2 vershoks (1,5 meters). The image of Christ is, in fact, an icon on the fabric, embroidered with gold, silver and silk threads; two crosses and five stars are embroidered on the slope, and the edge is trimmed with gold and crimson silk. The fabric itself is dark crimson and, in addition, patterned.

Among the relics of the Armory are the whole banners of Ermak, under which he conquered the Siberian Khanate of Kuchum. They are all blue. The length of each is more than 3 arshins (2 meters), and two images are embroidered on one at once: Christ and St. Michael, on the other two - a unicorn and a lion.

Well, referring to the more ancient chronicle miniatures, we often see flags with panels in the form of triangular pennants of red and blue colors, that is, everything is according to the iconographic tradition: after all, these are the colors of the robe of the Virgin.

Accordingly, the tsars who succeeded Ivan IV used very similar flags, "built" of expensive brocade, woven with gold, and embroidered with the faces of the patron saints of Russia and the Russian army. This is how, for example, the banner of the Great Regiment of Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich, father of Peter the Great, sewn in 1654, looked like.


The banner of the Great Regiment of Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich from 1654 to 1701, when it was canceled by Peter I

It is interesting that, although the banners of the sovereign regiments, that is, large military formations, were real works of art, the banners of the Streletsky regiments were, on the contrary, extremely simple and were multi-colored panels without any embroidery, but with the obligatory straight cross of contrasting colors in relation to the main field. Moreover, all the "colored" Moscow rifle regiments, which also wore colored hats, caftans and boots, had almost the same design, but different colors.

As for Peter I, at the beginning of his reign he used the old-style banners with a "slope" and all kinds of embroidery. This, for example, was his coat of arms in 1696.


Coat of arms of Peter I 1696

However, it is interesting that the sea flag of the Russian state appeared five years before it was born! Then, in 1667, by the tsar's decree, the first Russian warship "Eagle" was built on the Volga, and it was he who needed the flag. In a document of 1667 entitled: "Painting, what else is needed for the ship structure, cut off what is now bought ..." the commander of the ship "Eagle" asked to release him more matter for the flags, and added the following: "and those flowers are all Kindyaki like the Great The sovereign will indicate, only on ships there is, which state is the ship, that state is the banner. " That is, judging by the text, he did not know the colors and structure of the state moisture of Russia, but he knew that the ships sail under the state flags, which is why he asked for the appropriate fabrics, that is, "Kindyaks."

The choice of the flag was then taken very seriously. So, Alexei Mikhailovich prepared a special "Scripture on the conception of signs and banners or ensigns", which depicted the flags of all the biblical twelve tribes of Israel, as well as the state and naval flags of England, Denmark, Sweden and Holland. Then April 9, 1667. The Siberian order received an order "to send from exchange goods three hundred and ten arshins of kindyaks and one hundred and fifty arshins of worm-like (that is, red), white, azure (blue) tafts for shipbuilding for banners and yalovchiks (yalovtsy - pennants)."

True, it is still impossible to establish the design of the flag from the surviving documents. But it is believed that it included a blue straight cross, as well as two white squares and, accordingly, two red squares located diagonally, and in addition it was also trimmed with a red border. That is, for some reason it is very similar, just like the banners of the "colored" Moscow rifle regiments!

State flags of Russia. Three stripes, but which ones?

Flag of 1668

That is, how he looked exactly, we still do not know, but we can only assume this. But it is known that in 1693 Peter I, sailing on the White Sea, for the first time raised the "flag of the Tsar of Moscow" on his yacht. And that flag consisted of three horizontal stripes of white, blue and red, and in the center of the flag a two-headed eagle was embroidered in gold. This flag can be considered the state flag, since there were simply no others at that time, but since the tsar himself was there, it can also be considered the tsar's standard.


Flag of Russia, 1693

In 1712, Peter I personally created a model of the flag for the naval fleet, a very simple and laconic white flag with an oblique azure cross - St. Andrew's flag, named in honor of the Holy Apostle Andrew the First-Called. The flag of stripes of white, blue and red remained in the Navy as the flag of merchant ships, it also became the military field flag of the Russian army, part of the officer's uniform (as an officer's scarf over his shoulder), and then also the state flag of the empire!


Andrew's flag, 1712

Why didn't Peter I keep the old flag with a vertical blue cross, or why didn't he arrange the stripes vertically? We can only guess about that. One thing is clear: the origin of the red and blue colors of the Russian flag from the colors of the clothes of the Virgin, as they were depicted on the icons. This is why these colors were so popular. And people saw these colors from early childhood, considered them a shrine and kissed, begging the Lord for grace for themselves and their children.

And for a long time, these two flags, trade-imperial and naval, suited everyone in Russia. But in 1858, Emperor Alexander II adopted a new flag for special occasions, which had completely different colors: the upper stripe is black, the middle yellow and the lower one is white. The proposal came from Baron Kene, who pointed out to the emperor that the colors of the flag did not correspond to the colors of the state coat of arms, which was a violation of the rules of German heraldry.


Flag of Russia, 1858

A decree was issued, according to which black, orange (gold) and white became the state colors of the Russian Empire. The symbolism of the flowers was simple and understandable: black symbolized the earth, and the other two - gold and silver. In addition, the benefit of black is also that it implies absolute dominance. He can “paint over” any other color, but “paint over” black is not so easy. However, the new flag did not gain popularity in society, since the influence of the "non-reckoning" was felt in it, and the Germans were not liked in Russia. There was one more, purely psychological reason: the black color, heavy, gloomy, the color of hell and hellish torment, was located in it above! This was a violation of the tradition of visualizing the “heavenly world” as “the golden world” (“the color of paradise”), the world of “divine purity” (“dove color” of innocence) and the world of “heavenly blue”. People were not ready for this psychologically and therefore did not accept the new flag in their hearts.

But here Alexander III, during his coronation, noticed that his festive procession was decorated with some flags, but the city was decorated with completely different ones. That is, black-yellow-white colors sharply discord with white-blue-red. The emperor, who stood up for the unity of power and people, considered this situation abnormal and on April 28, 1883 ordered to raise exclusively the white-blue-red flag of the Russian merchant marine fleet on all solemn occasions.

However, this flag received state status only on the eve of the coronation of Emperor Nicholas II. At the same time, his description indicated that the red color in it symbolizes "statehood", azure (blue) - the patronage of the Mother of God (remember the color of her clothes on the icons!), But white in this case no longer symbolized purity, but freedom and independence.

In 1914, the Russian flag changed again. A special circular from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs introduced a new national white-blue-red flag with a yellow square ("kryzha") added to the top with a black double-headed eagle. Well, apparently, the black eagle on a yellow background looked very good. By the way, the personal naval standard of Peter the Great, with maps of the seas washing Russia in the claws and beaks of eagles, was just such a yellow and black eagle!


Peter I standard

It turned out to be very successful in all respects, which is why it was not replaced until 1917. Psychologically, the black eagle is absolute dominance, and the golden background is absolute wealth. And what can be opposed to these two symbols? Nothing!


Imperial Standard (1857-1883)

In April 1918, at the suggestion of Sverdlov, the state flag began to look like this: a red cloth with the inscription "RSFSR" in gold in the upper left corner. Everything is obvious, simple and clear.


Russian flag in 1918

In 1920, the flag of the USSR was adopted, on the model of which, that is, with a hammer and sickle in the upper right corner, and abbreviations denoting a particular republic, the flags of our union states were also created. But the flag of Russia as such did not exist until 1954, when on May 2, by a decree of the Presidium of the RSFSR, the Russian flag was finally approved. It was a red cloth with a light blue stripe near the shaft from top to bottom. In the upper left corner were the traditional golden hammer and sickle, and above them a red five-pointed star bordered in gold. It is clear that the blue color in this case symbolized the blue sky above us and the blue seas around us, but the original, “spiritual” context of this flag has not disappeared anywhere either. If Peter I himself was a somewhat more religious person, he could well have come up with a blue-red or red-blue flag for Russia with a golden Orthodox cross located on the color separation line. All according to the well-known popular saying: a candle to God, and a devil of a poker! I would follow all the icon-painting traditions and create a very memorable laconic flag, on which the Orthodox would be baptized, like an icon. Such a flag, like the power of the sovereign, the "anointed of God", would be easy to deify. But he did not think of this, alas!


Flag of Russia, 1954

And August 22, 1991 was marked by the beginning of a new history of the Russian flag. A rectangular cloth with horizontal stripes of white, blue and red colors of different sizes with an aspect ratio of 1: 2 was adopted as the state flag.


Flag of Russia, adopted in 1991

Note that the flag of our Fatherland is a banner with a very, very difficult fate in all respects. Twice it was compromised by the bloodshed of the brotherly blood of Russians: the first time during the Civil War, when it was used by the armies of the White Guards, and during the Great Patriotic War, when the ROA fought under it.

It would seem that this alone would have been enough to permanently abandon this symbol, but apparently in 1991 they thought differently or simply forgot about these episodes ... in a hurry. Meanwhile, it was quite possible to revive the old imperial flag of the heyday of the Russian Empire, that is, the black-yellow-white tricolor. And, by the way, in order to be accepted then on the wave of the general thirst for change, it was only necessary to turn it over so that the black "mourning" strip was below!


Then the flag would read like this. Below is the "land", the main wealth of Russia, its black soil, its bowels. In the middle, "gold" is all that is created by the labor of its citizens on this earth. By the way, the primordial wealth of Russia is “the gold of bread”. Finally, the upper band is white, the color of purity of thoughts, piety, and nobility. It could have turned out beautifully, wouldn't it, but that too ... didn't work out. Well, the president's standard, as before, could have been gold, with the same black eagle clutching a hammer and sickle in its paws!
Author:
Articles from this series:
Savoy blue or red-white-grassy?
National flag colors: from divine to mundane
239 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 10 October 2020 06: 01 New
    +5
    Note that the flag of our Fatherland is a banner with a very, very difficult fate in all respects. Twice it was compromised by the bloodshed of the brotherly blood of Russians: the first time during the Civil War, when it was used by the armies of the White Guards, and during the Great Patriotic War, when the ROA fought under it.

    Red on the left, white on the right, and Chapaev in the middle - this is how I remember the colors of the Russian flag.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 06: 22 New
      +5
      About the flags of Ermak.
      .... on the other two - a unicorn and a lion.

      If my memory does not fail me - the old coat of arms of Moscow!
      Considering the "official version" of Ermak - as a robber who arbitrarily "crushed" Siberia. It is doubtful that the described flags belonged to his Cossacks. Remembering that the Ermakovites, after the death of the ataman, fled from Siberia. There is even more uncertainty about the authenticity of the banners. Although in the detachment of Ermak there were mainly veterans of the Livonian War, so they could dust the state property !!!
      Thank you Vyacheslav Olegovich for continuing the cycle!
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 06: 33 New
      +7
      Quote: Krasnodar
      Note that the flag of our Fatherland is a banner with a very, very difficult fate in all respects. Twice it was compromised by the bloodshed of the brotherly blood of Russians: the first time during the Civil War, when it was used by the armies of the White Guards, and during the Great Patriotic War, when the ROA fought under it.

      Red on the left, white on the right, and Chapaev in the middle - this is how I remember the colors of the Russian flag.

      Chapaev, why blue? laughing
      Hmm? If only this! Although no! Everything could have turned out for him and Anna if Vasily Ivanovich was not married and had no children !!!
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 10 October 2020 07: 20 New
        13
        This is not Chapaev blue, but the Ural!
        1. kalibr
          10 October 2020 07: 38 New
          +6
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          This is not Chapaev blue, but the Ural!

          !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 08: 17 New
            10
            Oh, you have not seen, you live the Ural River! Especially in the Orsk region. Then they did not call him blue.
            The residents of Orenburg themselves remember the "dark waters of the Urals", only in the spring during floods! When it is bright brown, it attacks all accessible lowlands, sweeping away anything that is poorly built and nailed down. In this connection, all coastal towns and villages are fenced with dams. In summer, this is a river no more than 10 meters wide, through which you can go ford in the Orenburg region. Near Orsk, a resident from the banks of the Kama, Belaya and Volga, may generally seem like a stream.
            1. Moskovit
              Moskovit 10 October 2020 09: 36 New
              +6
              In the summer it is normal. Transparent even. More than once I caught a fish there and swam). I agree that the name of the river is louder than its size).
            2. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 10 October 2020 10: 01 New
              +5
              Vladislav, there is no need to cross over to the ford in the Orenburg region. There are 100 meters and in some places a decent depth, and after the confluence with Sakmara, outside the city, it is generally a serious river.
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 12: 40 New
                +5
                Sergei!
                Last fall, on a dare, we went in wading boots with trousers a hundred meters above the bridge, where on the left bank in Orenburg there is a stele of Europe-Asia! After the merger with Samara, the Urals did not see.
                But there is no reason to underestimate it, in the flood Orsk Ural was pretty drowned. For the first time in general to zero, I had to move the city. After the second, they moved 400 km downstream, where modern Orenburg is located.
                By the way, Orsk at the dawn of its history was called Orenburg. The Orchanka River still flows within Orsk!
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 10 October 2020 14: 56 New
                  +6
                  I know history, the current Orenburg is in third place, the first in 1735, where Orsk is now, the second - it seems, where Kuvandyk is, did not like it either, and in 1743 they founded it on the current place, giving a kick to the Cossack settlement (about 300 souls), the settlement rolled back to 9 versts to Sakmara (not to be confused with the Samara River, it is also there, but ultimately flows into the Volga). This Cossack settlement later acquired the name "Byrd", at one time they were visited by Pugachev, and then by Pushkin. Now within the city boundaries. The name of the new city - Orenburg - remained the same as in the decree of Anna Ioannovna, and it means "a fortress on the Ori river". So it remained - the fortress was in one place, and the Or river - upstream. About the obelisk "Europe-Asia" - local insanity. Once upon a time, about 150 years ago, the border really passed through the Urals, but in the mid-50s, the World Geographical Congress, taking into account geology, decided to draw the border along the Mugodzhary and Emba, that is, to the south. The last time I was in my hometown was at the beginning of May last year, the Urals, of course, got smaller, but not too much.
                  1. Captain45
                    Captain45 11 October 2020 10: 16 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Aviator_
                    I know history, the present Orenburg is in third place, the first in 1735, where Orsk is now, the second - it seems, where Kuvandyk is, I also did not like it, and in 1743 they founded it on the current place,

                    The second place, as far as I remember, was where the village of Krasnokholm is now, and the name Orenburg, yes, remained from the Or river, where Orsk now stands.
                    1. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 11 October 2020 11: 32 New
                      +1
                      No, Krasnokholm is not suitable here - they hardly passed the old tract, which was from Sol-Iletsk, where salt was mined in the days of Alexei Mikhailovich, the father of Peter I. The second place was between Orsk and present-day Orenburg. This is Kuvandyk.
            3. bk0010
              bk0010 10 October 2020 15: 35 New
              +4
              The Danube is the same bullshit. Locals say that the "Blue Danube" waltz could have been composed either without seeing the river itself or from a big drinking bout.
            4. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 10 October 2020 17: 24 New
              +4
              "There are so many places in the world where I have never been" (C)
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 10 October 2020 17: 32 New
                +4
                “I wanted to go around the whole world,
                And I did not go around the hundredth part ”(c)
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 10 October 2020 17: 39 New
                  +5
                  "And he threw cigarette butts from the ship into the ocean,
                  Cursed the beauty of the islands and seas "(C)
              2. kristofer
                kristofer 15 October 2020 11: 59 New
                0
                Genghis Khan said that? :)
            5. vladcub
              vladcub 10 October 2020 20: 31 New
              +2
              "You can go to the ford" now I remembered that in the second grade I read the book: "Death of Chapaev" in verse. I don't remember at all who the author is, but I only remember the line: "The grave is deep." I didn’t want to read it at all then, but the link made me. And now I would like to read it to remember my childhood
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 10 October 2020 08: 29 New
        +6
        Because the Ural is a river))
        And about Anka - because Petka))
    3. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 10 October 2020 10: 23 New
      10
      In 1991, the whites and the reds finally made up. Through the blue.

      Yes, there was such a joke.
      And I memorized the colors of the flag by the name of the programming language - BASIC. White blue red.
    4. Nazar
      Nazar 10 October 2020 14: 54 New
      +8
      Krasnodar - it's hard to say about "Chapaev", but there is such a joke about this Masonic tricolor:
      the flag with the "primordial Russian" name "tricolor" in short symbolizes the history of the country - first ruled by whites, then by reds, and now in general ... "azure".
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 10 October 2020 14: 56 New
        +5
        Is she Masonic? Masons, as far as I remember, have blue, yellow (gold) and, probably, black
        Blue aprons with gold embroidery and black formal suits at events
        1. Nazar
          Nazar 10 October 2020 15: 23 New
          +3
          I am not an expert in Masonic symbols, but still - as soon as in which country the "historical" power is knocked down - so immediately the "three-flower" - so in Holland, so in France, Serbia, Czechoslovakia, etc. and so on. Here we are there too.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 10 October 2020 16: 21 New
            +4
            Like overthrowing Masons? )) Duc Suvorov, Pushkin, Kutuzov - were also freemasons. A circle of rich and / or talented people, held and bored laughing
            1. Nazar
              Nazar 10 October 2020 16: 24 New
              +2
              It is likely that this is so, and not only out of boredom - mutual support in promotion, in service or in commerce, and possibly in literature
            2. Nazar
              Nazar 10 October 2020 16: 27 New
              +4
              I just mean. that our current flag, one might say - "typical" and looking for some kind of "national" symbolism in it is a big stretch
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 10 October 2020 16: 34 New
                +4
                Flag typical for a European country)).
                1. Nazar
                  Nazar 10 October 2020 16: 54 New
                  +1
                  So I'm talking about the same thing - "typical" - and then something about the clothes of the Virgin and other notions in attempts to somehow link the flag copied from the Dutch with the Russian historical tradition request .
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 10 October 2020 16: 57 New
                    +3
                    Totally agree laughing
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 10 October 2020 17: 33 New
            +2
            Mneee ... As if, Holland is, in a way, a kingdom.
    5. Catfish
      Catfish 10 October 2020 17: 39 New
      +3
      Hi Albert. hi
      Red on the left, white on the right, and Chapaev in the middle -

      Rather, father Makhno. laughing drinks
    6. Laksamana besar
      Laksamana besar 10 October 2020 18: 00 New
      +1
      I remember it easier - "BeSiK". wink
    7. vladcub
      vladcub 10 October 2020 18: 02 New
      +2
      Is Chapaev blue? Thank you for the tricolor blue, not blue
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 20: 47 New
        +2
        Namesake, and according to the original statute he was azure (light blue) !!!
        Similar metamorphoses took place and OO! I still have on one set of uniforms, stripes with blue, on the other with dark blue!
        Ponty is more expensive than money !!!
      2. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 11 October 2020 10: 22 New
        +4
        Comments required?
        1. Saxahorse
          Saxahorse 11 October 2020 22: 22 New
          +2
          We were taught easier. "Does everyone know the word of the KGB? Read from bottom to top." laughing
          1. Dym71
            Dym71 12 October 2020 13: 39 New
            +1
            Quote: Saxahorse
            Read from bottom to top. "

            Sweeps from right to left winked
  2. Olgovich
    Olgovich 10 October 2020 06: 19 New
    -13
    Note that the flag of our Fatherland is a banner with a very, very difficult fate in all respects. Twice it was compromised by the bloodshed of the brotherly blood of Russians: the first time during the Civil War, when it was used by the armies of the White Guards, and during the Great Patriotic War, when the ROA fought under it.

    What nonsense:

    1.Russia lived before WWI with him, fought under its official state flag with the invaders in WWI and continued under it, to fight the invaders of power after it.

    And today Russia, like many centuries earlier, continues to live and fight under it.

    And yes, the opposite side also participated in the fratricidal war, moreover, she also unleashed it (before the thief, there was no civil war), this is about "compromising" participation.

    2. ROA did not fight under it, the Nazis did not allow her, her officers. Andreevsky flag.

    Which, again, does not compromise him in any way: Hitler, for example, adored and used excellent autobahns. vegetarianism, watercolors, loved the Alps, etc. and this does not compromise the Autobahn vegetarianism, watercolors, the Alps.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 10 October 2020 06: 28 New
      +5
      Vegetarianism is compromising! laughing
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 10 October 2020 09: 36 New
        +4
        It is not necessary to build anything into a cult. And even more so to impose on others.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 10 October 2020 17: 42 New
          +3
          Without this it is in no way impossible, not the kind of audience not to build. request
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 10 October 2020 17: 58 New
            +2
            Why? Surely there are some silent vegetarians somewhere.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 10 October 2020 18: 15 New
              +3
              There are also completely silent, forever, so to speak. laughing
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 10 October 2020 18: 20 New
                +3
                I don't even like Archimboldo's paintings.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 10 October 2020 18: 22 New
                  +3
                  Even as a dessert and for wine?
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 10 October 2020 18: 38 New
                    +4
                    Let the buffet stay the buffet.

                    Ilf and Petrov come to mind. And the sale of a painting with birches from Zoshchenko and Gaidai in "It Can't Be".
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 10 October 2020 18: 56 New
                      +5
                      Of course:
                      "- Of course, it is more capable of oats! - exclaimed Ostap. - But Rubens and Rafael were fools - they tried to use oil! We are also fools, like Leonardo da Vinci. Give us yellow enamel paint." (FROM) smile
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 10 October 2020 19: 05 New
                        +4
                        Exactly.

                        “Now there is little to do - you need a living nature.
                        Lo and behold: pretty legs with a proud head go "(c).
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 10 October 2020 19: 17 New
                        +5
                        Well what can I say ...
                      3. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 10 October 2020 20: 37 New
                        +3
                        Is this how Venus de Milo appeared?
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 10 October 2020 20: 46 New
                        +1
                        Well, "Venus, not Venus, there is definitely something venereal in her."
                      5. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 10 October 2020 20: 48 New
                        +2
                        The suppression of attempts at feminism in antiquity?
                      6. Catfish
                        Catfish 10 October 2020 21: 20 New
                        +3
                        Why only in antiquity, they always tried to fight perversions. laughing
                      7. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 10 October 2020 21: 25 New
                        +2
                        What is this plot?
                      8. Catfish
                        Catfish 10 October 2020 21: 29 New
                        +3
                        The governess considered the word "feminism" abusive and decided to take urgent action. laughing
                      9. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 10 October 2020 22: 40 New
                        +2
                        "They seem to have introduced corporal punishment in this apartment?" (from).
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 20: 49 New
      +4
      Quote: Korsar4
      Let the buffet stay the buffet.

      Ilf and Petrov come to mind. And the sale of a painting with birches from Zoshchenko and Gaidai in "It Can't Be".


      Come on, the buffet can be tolerated, but the Swedish family))) laughing
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 10 October 2020 21: 02 New
        +3
        Omnivorous. From Damascus to Beijing and from Stockholm to Dushanbe, nothing upset.

        And about the foreign girls in "Tobacco Captain" the lawyer spoke well.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 10 October 2020 21: 28 New
        +4
        "- Well, thief, how do you like? Did you like the Dutch?"
        - Very much, sir.
        - What?
        - They know a lot, sir!
        - Good! Did you like the Dutch girls?
        “Not really, sir.
        - Почему?
        - They know a lot ... "(c)
        In my opinion, this is not a minus for a girl, the question is, why do you need this girl. request
      3. Korsar4
        Korsar4 10 October 2020 22: 41 New
        +3
        Bobrov and so many divorced.
  • kalibr
    10 October 2020 07: 39 New
    12
    Quote: Olgovich
    ROA did not fight under it, the Nazis did not allow her, her officers. Andreevsky flag.

    I saw a photo of the Hetzer ROA self-propelled gun with this flag on the armor ... That's enough to say - "fought".
    1. kalibr
      10 October 2020 08: 20 New
      +9
      Here is a photo with Vlasovites.


      Obviously, under what flag they are marching and standing ...
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 10 October 2020 08: 20 New
      -6
      Quote: kalibr
      I saw a photo of the Hetzer ROA self-propelled gun with this flag on the armor ... That's enough to say - "fought".

      One self-propelled gun, can, and fought.

      And ROA-no-see. her APPROVED and recognized by her symbolism.

      Again: if Hitler used air for breathing, then the air was already compromised?
      1. kalibr
        10 October 2020 08: 26 New
        +3
        Quote: Olgovich
        And ROA-no-see. her APPROVED and recognized by her symbolism

        But what about the photos above ...
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 10 October 2020 11: 46 New
          0
          Quote: kalibr
          But what about the photos above.

          No way: bring official symbols ROA, not a photo of a self-propelled gun, a separate gang or other clowns.
          1. kalibr
            10 October 2020 21: 35 New
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            individual gang or other clowns.

            It often happened that what was adopted officially remained on paper. The last photo doesn't smell like clowns. These are people with weapons in their hands, standing under the banner ...
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 11 October 2020 09: 16 New
              -1
              Quote: kalibr
              Often it so happened that what was adopted officially remained on paper.

              We are talking about specific ROA. And she used the St. Andrew's flag.
              Everywhere.

              Photo sea.

              And these are not the only individual self-propelled guns and clowns.

              And yes, the Order of the Red Banner, too, for example, was copied by the fact that it was worn by Vlasov and other traitors?

              Yes, and the overwhelming part of his service he served not at all under the banner of St. Andrew
        2. Ryazan87
          Ryazan87 10 October 2020 13: 48 New
          +8
          With the flag of the "Pskov" parade of the so-called. "Guards Brigade" history is dark, it should be noted. It was rather the former whites who insisted on the tricolor, but in the ROA their influence was small, and the number too.
          It is a mystery to me why the Andreev flag, which was indeed used everywhere and officially by the ROA, no one considers "compromised." No butthert.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 10 October 2020 17: 47 New
            +4
            But you definitely noticed about Andreevsky.


    3. bubalik
      bubalik 10 October 2020 09: 56 New
      +8
      ,,, he was not officially accepted, Andrey is right.
      Gradually, all the so-called "national military units" in the German army received badges with the national colors of their peoples. Only the largest people - the Russians - were denied this. This issue urgently demanded a solution. But here, too, difficulties arose. Historical Russian national colors - white-blue-red - were banned. The proposals were developed both at Dabendorf and at the headquarters of the general of the Eastern forces. Dabendorf projects were 90% white-blue-red. One project even corresponded to the former flag of the Romanov house.

      Rosenberg himself took up the question of the flag with interest. The Romanov flag with an eagle and the white-blue-red colors were, of course, rejected by him. On the contrary, Rosenberg liked the blue St. Andrew's cross on a white background, conceived as a small shield on a red banner. Only the abundance of red did not like the minister, and he proposed to reduce the red color to a narrow framing of a white field with a blue St. Grotte was pleased and, being in Dabendorf, especially congratulated Malyshkin, who had prepared the project with his officers.

      Shtrik-Shtrikfeldt V.K. Against Stalin and Hitler
  • paul3390
    paul3390 10 October 2020 20: 07 New
    +5
    Again, another set of lies .. And Russia can have only one flag. Under which we were born.

    1. Ryazan87
      Ryazan87 12 October 2020 12: 07 New
      0
      But in my opinion, it's time:
      1. Unlearn on your behalf to speak for all of Russia, especially for the millions of people who were born after 1991.
      2. "Do you think I am not disgusted with constantly waving a red rag?" A.A. Brusilov (s)
      One shouldn't take especially seriously and quote the statements of this old political ... and even more so, do it with such pathos.
      Moreover, this particular quote, drawn from the Military Historical Journal of 1962, raises doubts about its authenticity.
      1. Icelord
        Icelord 15 October 2020 17: 36 New
        0
        And as a commander, Brusilov is simply not
  • Revolver
    Revolver 12 October 2020 01: 22 New
    -1
    Quote: Olgovich
    Hitler, for example, adored and used magnificent autobahns. vegetarianism, watercolors, loved the Alps, etc. and this does not compromise the Autobahn vegetarianism, watercolors, the Alps.

    There was also a swastika, and in India it still is, a sacred symbol of the sun, goodness, prosperity, and what else is there. And let someone try to publicly paint this sacred Indian symbol on the monument of the Second World War, it will be curious whether the police will have to arrest at least four threads from him, or just organize the identification of the corpse?
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 06: 30 New
    +6
    Meanwhile, it was quite possible to revive the old imperial flag of the heyday of the Russian Empire, that is, the black-yellow-white tricolor. And, by the way, in order to be accepted then on the wave of the general thirst for change, it was only necessary to turn it over so that the black "mourning" strip was below!

    The white-blue-red tricolor is one and a half centuries older than the black-white-gold one. Therefore, it was his revival that was more historical!
    1. sibiryouk
      sibiryouk 10 October 2020 07: 01 New
      +3
      And I like the colors of the white-yellow-black flag more. They have more symbolism - world-bread-earth!
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 07: 30 New
        +6
        To each his own!
        For the first time, "black and yellow" cockades appeared in the time of Anna Ioannovna. The St. George ribbon has its roots precisely from her.
        But here we must admit that Alexander III's “choice of the people” did not return to the modern tricolor for nothing. His Contemporaries did not accept the "black-yellow-white" flag. All solemn exits under it were accompanied by "white-blue-red" flags in the crowd of subjects.
        Similarly, the standard of the President of Russia was chosen, which is essentially a tracing of the flag of Peter in 1693, with the exception of the golden border!
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 07: 41 New
          +8
          In continuation!
          Found an interesting selection of cockades, from Peter to the present day!

          Cleaver with a badge!

          Military cockade until 2005

          Modern cockade. Sadly, the military refused the star in 2005.

          There is nothing to comment on !!!
          It is interesting that the tricolor is adopted in the police!
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 10 October 2020 07: 59 New
            +9
            Cleaver with a badge!
            Vlad! hi T9 will ruin you!
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 10 October 2020 17: 54 New
              +5
              ... T9 will ruin you!

              One should not deviate from tradition. drinks
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 10 October 2020 18: 09 New
                +5
                Well, their aphedron, such traditions !!!
                Only in the Russian paradigm, the word chanson is associated with "Vladimir Central"
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 10 October 2020 18: 18 New
                  +3
                  Only in the Russian paradigm, ..

                  What is rich ... request
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 10 October 2020 18: 30 New
                    +4
                    We are rich in many things. The trouble is that in the internal cultural environment, this cesspool prevails.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 10 October 2020 18: 36 New
                      +3
                      If only this was the problem, but, alas, this is only one of the troubles, and not the most important one.
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 10 October 2020 19: 04 New
                        +4
                        Yes, in fact, the most important.
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 10 October 2020 19: 19 New
                        +2
                        If it exists, this "internal cultural environment".
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 10 October 2020 19: 42 New
                        +4
                        And she is. Otherwise, a couple of weeks ago, "AUE" would not have been equated with the already persecuted terrorist offices.
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 10 October 2020 20: 29 New
                        +3
                        What is "AUE" and what do you call a "terrorist office". The only office I know is the Deep Drilling Office.
        2. Korsar4
          Korsar4 10 October 2020 18: 23 New
          +3
          Did the ducat make it to this list because of inflation?
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 10 October 2020 18: 25 New
            +4
            Who knows, there is also vodka from the earliest times. "Creative" rethinking. laughing
    2. kalibr
      10 October 2020 08: 00 New
      +8
      Vladislav! And in the army of KOMUCH, the flag was red on one side and black and orange, St. George's on the other! So that the officers of the tsarist army would not be disgusted to fight in it!
    3. Sanya Terek
      Sanya Terek 10 October 2020 09: 28 New
      +6
      Vladislav, the cockade, which you called modern, did not take root. In the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, in accordance with the Order of the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation of November 26.11.2018, 677 No. XNUMX, they wear a cockade with a golden star.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 12: 44 New
        +3
        Quote: Sanya Terek
        Vladislav, the cockade, which you called modern, did not take root. In the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, in accordance with the Order of the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation of November 26.11.2018, 677 No. XNUMX, they wear a cockade with a golden star.

        And really, did not pay attention!
        I can only say one thing justice has been done.
        1. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 10 October 2020 13: 52 New
          +5

          November 23, 16 Beijing. cockade with a star
    4. Ryazan87
      Ryazan87 10 October 2020 13: 40 New
      +4
      The badge of 2005 is not currently used, see the current Order of the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation of June 22.06.2015, 300 N 26.11.2018 (as amended on November XNUMX, XNUMX)
    5. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 10 October 2020 13: 51 New
      +2
      no one refused the stars in RA) what you showed is already as old as the world. stars on all cockades.
    6. RUSS
      RUSS 11 October 2020 11: 04 New
      +2
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Modern cockade. Sadly, the military refused the star in 2005

      Not true, the badge of the 2005 model was not introduced in the army, now the badge is a gilded star in an oval against the background of the "St. George's ribbons"
    7. saygon66
      saygon66 11 October 2020 18: 12 New
      +3
      - No no! Cleaned up fine! Army witches nicknamed this cockade "Japan's Victory over Russia, because the gold star is considered a symbol of the Japanese imperial army.

  • Nazar
    Nazar 10 October 2020 15: 06 New
    +1
    Kote pane Kohanka (Vladislav) - quote: "... it must be admitted," the choice of the people "Alexander III, not in vain returned to the modern tricolor." - Colleague, but the name of this product "tricolor" is of course the same "people's choice"? Such a directly Russian-pre-Russian name ... well, about the same true Russian name for a "domestic" aircraft - "Superjet" - eh? Nationality and symbolism are straightforward and rushing, especially if you know that at least three dozen countries in the world use the same colors on their flags.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 18: 48 New
      +4
      Well, reject all borrowing dear Nazar! Show integrity. wink
      Believe me, you will have to start not with a TV, computer and the Internet, but with a helmet, sword, hut !!! Is it worth continuing further? Do you know a synonym for ax?
      Or to a child in a zoo, tfu tfu again on the Greco-Roman past of this word, explain that a bear is a bear !!! Here the Huns tried !!!
      Three dozen countries use white-blue-red colors for national flags! But apart from Great Britain and Us, no one can boast that a dozen countries have planted these colors in respect to us Russians!

      Czech!

      Slovakia!

      Serbia!

      Slovenia!
      Regards, Kote!
      1. Nazar
        Nazar 11 October 2020 08: 19 New
        0
        Kote pane Kohanka - Colleague, our country did not develop in isolation, of course there are a lot of "borrowings" in language and culture, even in the everyday sphere. But the flag of the state is a symbol, and the current flag can be said to be "typical" and all attempts to somehow justify the connection of this flag almost with a religious tradition are extremely unconvincing. Well, Pyotr Alekseevich "borrowed" the flag from the Dutch, but what has to do with the icon-painting of the Virgin?
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 October 2020 11: 40 New
          +2
          Quote: Nazar
          But the flag of the state is a symbol, and the current flag can be said to be "typical" and all attempts to somehow justify the connection of this flag almost with a religious tradition are extremely unconvincing.

          Well, probably not "typical", but functional! The classic flag is a cross on the field. The oldest are Danish, British and French (white cross on a blue field). Equal horizontal stripes are clearly visible in the sea! Judging by the sketches from Peter's personal archive, he initially leaned towards a cruciform flag (a red cross that divides the fields of blue and white in a checkerboard pattern) similar to the Strelets' orders. But practice has shown difficulties in identification.

          Quote: Nazar
          Well, Pyotr Alekseevich "borrowed" the flag from the Dutch, but what has to do with the icon-painting of the Virgin?

          After knowledge is harmful! Until 1795, the Dutch flag was like this!

          Along with it, striped ones with alternating 6 and 9 stripes were used!
          So, it would be more likely that Peter stole the flag from the Duke of Luxembourg!

          But here again the "infection", the latter has been put into circulation since 1815!
          In fact, we come to the conclusion that Peter did not "turn over" and did not "Borrow" anything except the horizontal arrangement of equal stripes.
          But there is also an interesting point! We reliably know that for the flag of the ship Eagle, three fabrics were allocated: white, azure (blue) and scarlet (red).
          In 1693, Peter in Arkhangelsk swims, under the standard of their three equal horizontal stripes: white, blue, red and a golden two-eyed eagle on top of them?
          So maybe it was the tracing of the Eagle's stern flag? And there were no borrowings? Holland - definitely!

          Now for the divine!
          The description of all the old coats of arms in heraldry was originally tied to the blood of the savior, red; purity of thoughts and spirit (white), blue (the robe of the Virgin Mary). You can put other meanings, but in the flag of the Netherlands only orange was from the house of the Duke of Orange. So something of your version is as described by Vyacheslav.
          My distinctive, gives the possibility of interpretation.
          Regards, Kote!
          1. saygon66
            saygon66 11 October 2020 18: 28 New
            +1
            - Orange stripe until 1630 .... He replaced the flags of the "Seven Provinces" in 1579 ...
          2. Storm Uesugi
            Storm Uesugi 25 October 2020 03: 54 New
            +1
            dachshund scarlet is not quite red but bright red.
            lazarvoy all blue or dark blue - but not blue
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 25 October 2020 10: 58 New
              0
              Quote: Storm Uesugi
              dachshund scarlet is not quite red but bright red.
              lazarvoy all blue or dark blue - but not blue

              In essence you are right, but historically it happened the way it happened. By the way, in the middle of the last century, there was even a controversy between Luxembourg and the Netherlands over the colors of the flag.
      2. Revolver
        Revolver 12 October 2020 04: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        explain that a bear is a bear !!!

        If we go to the Indo-European roots of languages, then the bear was denoted by a word similar to the English bear or the German ber, which originally meant like "the one who takes away". By the way, the Russian "den" is also from there. But even in the ancient Slavic pre-Christian times, the bear was considered the owner of the forest and was afraid to call it by name - otherwise he would hear it, come and take it to the den. Like "say damn, and he's right there." Therefore, they were called allegorically, including a specialist in honey, i.e. bear. So it stuck.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 October 2020 04: 32 New
          +1
          Good morning!
          ... Therefore, they were called allegorically, including a specialist in honey, i.e. bear. So it stuck.

          Many linguists believe that the word "honey" among the Slavs is just one of the earliest borrowings from the Huns. laughing
          Analogy - there is a Russian word "bookkeeper", but every bookkeeper imagines himself "bookkeeper". In the word I spoke, there is pride, with a bear, primitive beliefs. Although the word Ber itself is embodied at least in the names of the two capitals Berlin and Bern.
          Yours!
  • kalibr
    10 October 2020 07: 50 New
    +3
    Quote: sibiryouk
    And I like the colors of the white-yellow-black flag more.

    You know, Gennady, me too. Red, white, blue is beautiful, I admit it. 100% religious, the veils of the Mother of God and all that ... But ... it was a question of how ... to move away from the past. The eagle was returned, but the flag and anthem in general have the same content. The white stripe was returned to the red and blue Soviet flag and that's it. And the white-gold and black flag is completely new, it is "speaking" (and speaking well!). And the anthem had to be made a song from the film Circus - "Wide is my native country ..." And then, they say - "similar to German." So the Germans have black at the top, but we would have it at the bottom! Where the earth is supposed to be!
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 10 October 2020 18: 54 New
      +1
      Q. Oh, it's a pity that you weren't there when the flag was chosen.
      I remember when we started talking about the future flag, someone suggested: a red banner and a huge swallow in the center.
      Q. Oh, I don't agree with you about the flag: change it to the old one, but about the anthem, here I agree with you: "My native country is wide" would be wonderful
    2. Revolver
      Revolver 12 October 2020 04: 31 New
      0
      Quote: kalibr
      “And then, they say,“ it looks like a German. ”But the Germans have black at the top, but we would have it below! Where is the earth supposed to be!

      And to me personally, the German flag resembles a yellow-red fire and black smoke on top.
  • Lysik001
    Lysik001 10 October 2020 07: 03 New
    +4
    I don't like black. Similar to German. Ours, though similar to French, is still not a Boche. Let it be what it is!
    1. kalibr
      10 October 2020 07: 55 New
      +4
      Sergei! Comparing what the Germans did to Russia and what the French did, the Germans did much more good for us! And it was not Germans who attacked us in 41, but fascists! At the end of the war, the newspaper PRAVDA even wrote that "Comrade Ehrenburg is wrong when he says" Daddy, kill the German ", that the Nazis come and go ... but he is the German people ..." And so on.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 08: 20 New
        +4
        French, Germans !!!? We must be equal to our own !!!
        1. kalibr
          10 October 2020 08: 24 New
          0
          And what do we have, Vladislav?
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 10 October 2020 08: 37 New
            +5
            For example, the periodic table.

            You can always get to the bottom of the forerunners and primary sources.
            Here's a samovar, probably from Holland. But here it has taken root and developed.

            And each city has its own.
            1. sibiryouk
              sibiryouk 10 October 2020 08: 52 New
              +5
              So let's put the periodic table on the flag, especially since almost all of it is in the Russian land.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 10 October 2020 08: 56 New
                +3
                No. There is no need.

                But when they discussed that there could be personalities on the banknotes - there would be a place for Lomonosov, Mendeleev, and Pushkin.

                And the flag. Why change? Stability is stability everywhere.
                And the life of states is not a sprint, but a long marathon.
              2. kalibr
                10 October 2020 09: 06 New
                +4
                Quote: sibiryouk
                So let's put the periodic table on the flag, especially since almost all of it is in the Russian land.

                !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 10 October 2020 09: 12 New
                  +3
                  In the eyes will ripple.

                  Compare the flags of countries with a rich history, such as African ones.
                  And the local history is sometimes well reflected in the coats of arms of cities.
                  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 13: 06 New
                    +3
                    Sergei You are right!

                    Coat of arms of Nizhnie Sergi - old

                    Coat of arms of Nizhneserginsky region

                    Coat of arms of the city of Mikhailovsk (bird gamayun)

                    Badger - Upper Seryog

                    Pegasus - the village of Atig!
                    Sincerely, Vlad!
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 10 October 2020 14: 01 New
                      +2
                      It's a pleasure to watch.
                    2. saygon66
                      saygon66 11 October 2020 18: 36 New
                      +1
                      - Some kind of confusion ... The three-toothed "tower" crown in Russian heraldry complained to the county towns ... And here, the golden one - to the village?
                      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 October 2020 20: 45 New
                        0
                        For what I bought, for what I sell!
                        The nearby volost center before the revolution is Nizhneserginsky plant (Sergi Nizhnie), Krasnoufimsky district, Perm province.
                        Its modern coat of arms is the second in the list, today it is a regional center, a city since 1943.
          2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 12: 55 New
            +2
            Quote: kalibr
            And what do we have, Vladislav?

            I have mountains in the Urals, you have fields in Penza! We have something to cherish and something to be proud of !!!





            Everything is in a heap, from a personal archive! Ural, Orsk, Perm, Yekaterinburg !!!
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 10 October 2020 14: 02 New
              +3
              And their forests, unlike anything else. And even call it a district, even a county. You can sing solemn songs about everyone. And do not be fake.
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 14: 03 New
                +3
                Sergey agree!
                There’s nothing to add !!! hi
          3. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 13 October 2020 13: 47 New
            +1
            At the end of the war, the newspaper PRAVDA even wrote that "Comrade Ehrenburg is wrong when he says" Daddy, kill the German ", that the Nazis come and go ... but he is the German people ..." And so on.

            This slogan was necessary in order to wean our people from treating the Germans as "workers and peasants", proceeding from yesterday's "class paradigm". Unfortunately, those who came to us no longer resembled people in their moral qualities ...
            And what do we have, Vladislav?

            Great Mikhailovsky Prize, received by Captain Mosin. And it was only given every five years. wink I let the "thin hairpin" go, Vyacheslav Olegovich. drinks Do you know, why. yes
      2. Revolver
        Revolver 12 October 2020 04: 37 New
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        Sergei! Comparing what the Germans did to Russia and what the French did, the Germans did much more good for us! And it was not Germans who attacked us in 41, but fascists! At the end of the war, the newspaper PRAVDA even wrote that "Comrade Ehrenburg is wrong when he says" Daddy, kill the German ", that the Nazis come and go ... but he is the German people ..." And so on.

        It was rather like this:
        Quote: I.V. Stalin

        ORDER
        PEOPLE'S DEFENSE COMMISSIONER
        February 23, 1942 № 55 Moscow
        .
        it would be ridiculous to identify Hitler's clique with the German people, with the German state. The experience of history says that Hitlers come and go, but the German people, and the German state, remains.
        .
  • Van 16
    Van 16 10 October 2020 07: 10 New
    10
    Now the controversy will begin. And I liked the article, succinctly and to the point.
    I will add that the Soviet flag is still to my liking. Grew up under it, and grandfathers fought under it.
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 10 October 2020 07: 17 New
    +4
    https://theworldnews.net/ru-news/preemstvennost-pokolenii-kak-trikolor-stal-gosudarstvennym-simvolom-rossii
    “Most likely, the Moscow banner was scarlet or black - that is, dark red or crimson. And the black color in historical sources could appear due to a trivial mistake of the scribe, "suggested in an interview with RT an academician of the Academy of Political Sciences of the Russian Federation, head of the department of PRUE. G.V. Plekhanov Andrey Koshkin.
    Under Ivan III, the "sovereign banner" was red. Under his grandson, Ivan the Terrible, a dark red banner was used with the image of the Most Merciful Savior and a banner with a lingonberry border, which depicted the Archangel Michael on a horse on an azure field and Jesus Christ on a sugar-colored slope.

    /016.jpg
    1. kalibr
      10 October 2020 07: 44 New
      +5
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      suggested

      The main word here is "suggested". You can assume anything ...
      1. Icelord
        Icelord 10 October 2020 14: 08 New
        +3
        Moreover, it was not a historian, but an economist suggested)))
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 14: 40 New
          +2
          Red color, not always retained on fabric. There are cases of colorlessness, and replacement of the red pigment with black. At one time I talked with restorers, they explained in detail the properties of natural dyes. Alas, it was a long time ago, I did not remember the details.
        2. Icelord
          Icelord 10 October 2020 14: 52 New
          +2
          Sorry, not an economist, political scientist, but a military man by education, or rather a political instructor. We are with him in the same Tashkent VOKU them. Lenin studied)))
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 18: 51 New
            +1
            Quote: Icelord
            Sorry, not an economist, political scientist, but a military man by education, or rather a political instructor. We are with him in the same Tashkent VOKU them. Lenin studied)))

            So a wagon! hi
          2. saygon66
            saygon66 11 October 2020 23: 11 New
            0
            - The Pushkinskaya metro station? smile
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 11 October 2020 23: 31 New
              0
              Yeah, opposite the fire, though the fire is gone for a long time
              1. saygon66
                saygon66 11 October 2020 23: 47 New
                0
                - There is now a lot of things there ... He lived opposite - in the mahalla, near the station. Salar ... smile
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 14 October 2020 15: 50 New
                  0
                  Almost neighbors, I'm in a mahala near the center of Lunacharsky, towards the karasu massif)))
                  1. saygon66
                    saygon66 15 October 2020 21: 20 New
                    0
                    - I’m starting to forget ... Is this behind Svetlana, in the direction of the Pentagon?
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 15 October 2020 21: 25 New
                      0
                      This is towards ttz
                      1. saygon66
                        saygon66 15 October 2020 22: 07 New
                        +1
                        - Aha! Oriented! smile
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 10 October 2020 07: 17 New
    10
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    I got used to reading "from Shpakovsky" on Saturday morning)))
    And I also remembered an anecdote from the 80s:
    School in Estonia, in the class there is Vovochka - the son of a Soviet officer. History lesson.
    Teacher:
    - Children! Naazovitte the colors of our flag! Nikolaus!
    An Estonian boy gets up and reports:
    - Blue, black and white!
    - Right ... What does blue mean?
    The student gets up and boldly says:
    - The blue color - this is the bloom of our heaven, which will be rotten by the damned Soviet planes!
    - Right, sit down ... And the second one?
    The girl gets up and also boldly answers:
    - And the black color is the color of our Estonian land, which is being crushed by damned Soviet tanks!
    - That's right, saad!
    Little John pulls his hand:
    - Speak, foreigner ...
    - And the color is white - this is the color of snow in Siberia, which you all will soon be cleaning with shovels !!!
    laughing
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 10 October 2020 07: 27 New
      14
      "In response to Estonia's demand to spell the word" Tallinn "with two" n ", the Russian Foreign Ministry proposed an amendment to another toponym:" Kolymaa "
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 14: 41 New
        +5
        Do not be afraid that the Estonians will run up in a year and minus the rank and file !!! laughing
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 10 October 2020 15: 15 New
          +3
          In a year, the voting button for this thesis will disappear. And the degree of comfort of being on the forum does not depend on the size and number of stars. They don't get paid for this. And fame is too fickle.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 10 October 2020 17: 14 New
          +2
          Why a year later?
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 18: 54 New
            +2
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Why a year later?

            The guys are very efficient !!! wassat
            After another two, they will file a complaint about the VO, so that they return the button with a minus !!! soldier
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 10 October 2020 19: 22 New
              +3
              I'm sorry, I didn't catch the humor.
              In fact, Estonians consider Finns to be narrow-minded, Finns - Estonians and Swedes, Swedes, in general all neighbors mean imbeciles (especially Finns)
              Here is such a friendly family of the Baltic peoples! laughing
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 10 October 2020 20: 13 New
                +3
                Good evening Anton. I did not know this
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 11 October 2020 11: 10 New
                  +1
                  Good morning Vlad! I have been living in the Northwest for 47 years, I think this is a long enough time to learn about the peculiarities of interethnic relations between neighboring peoples.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 10 October 2020 07: 30 New
    +3
    The flags change as the article progresses. And then Andreevsky.
    A bunch of associations at once.

    And conciseness in the image.
    1. kalibr
      10 October 2020 07: 43 New
      +3
      Quote: Korsar4
      And conciseness in the image.

      Only Japanese and Swiss are more laconic ...
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 10 October 2020 07: 59 New
        +4
        And they are immediately remembered. And behind each country is a rich history.
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 10 October 2020 11: 40 New
      0
      ... ... And then Andreevsky.
      A bunch of associations at once.

      Yes. With the Condor Legion.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 10 October 2020 12: 01 New
        +1
        Everyone has their own associations.

        I wondered: can the Condor flag be considered Andreevsky? Proportions matter or not.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 10 October 2020 14: 41 New
          +2
          Consider what you want, but the Condor had the St. Andrew's cross.
  • thinker
    thinker 10 October 2020 07: 44 New
    +6
    But the flag of Russia as such did not exist until 1954 ...

    Was surprised, looked into Vicki, and who is right? Flag of the RSFSR (1937-1954)
    1. kalibr
      10 October 2020 08: 03 New
      +5
      Yes, it was necessary to clarify that the 1918 flag was preserved, but the font changed ...
  • Boris55
    Boris55 10 October 2020 08: 02 New
    +3
    Quote: V. Shpakovsky
    ... in 1693, Peter I, sailing on the White Sea, first raised the "flag of the Tsar of Moscow" on his yacht. And that flag consisted of three horizontal stripes of white, blue and red, and a two-headed eagle was embroidered in gold in the center of the flag. This flag can be considered a state

    Everyone has the right to consider whatever he likes. Last time I gave you screenshots of this book:



    " In 1910 year Russian emperor Nicholas II convened a Special meeting: the 100th anniversary of the Borodino battle was approaching, it was planned to hold large festivities, during which it was planned to demonstrate the triumph and greatness of Russia and its sovereign flag. And therefore it was necessary to urgently decide on which flag itself is the symbol of the state. This task was to be solved by a Special Meeting.

    During the work of this meeting, it turned out that during the entire three-hundred-year reign of the Romanov dynasty, Russia did not have a state flag".

    It's a shame you ignored her. Nicholas II clearly would not agree with you.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 10 October 2020 18: 24 New
      +2
      During the work of this meeting it became clear that during the entire three-hundred-year rule of the Romanov dynasty, Russia did not have a state flag. "
      Another shnyaga from the Internet. Show the place in Belavenets' book where there is such information, or any other document confirming the existence of such a conclusion.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 11 October 2020 07: 52 New
        -3
        Quote: Undecim
        Another shnyaga from the Internet

        Include logic. If there had been a state flag under the Romanovs, then on what devil would Nicholas II have gathered this Special Meeting? In addition:





        For the first time, the tricolor became state when the English puppet - Kerenskoy. Then he came to us together with the fascists and traitors Vlasovites (in a broad sense). And the last time under Yelitsin. He didn't bring us anything good.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 11 October 2020 10: 08 New
          +2
          I not only include logic when I write comments. I also use literary sources. The question was not about whether the flag existed or not, but about its colors. You yourself at least read the entire book, the scans from which you are demonstrating, otherwise you jerk fragments, not knowing what is written in it.
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 11 October 2020 10: 34 New
            -1
            Quote: Undecim
            The question was not whether the flag existed or not, ...

            So you read this too:
            "In 1910, the Russian Emperor Nicholas II convened a special meeting: the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Borodino was approaching, it was planned to hold large festivities, during which it was planned to demonstrate the triumph and greatness of Russia and its sovereign flag. And therefore it was necessary to urgently decide on which flag itself is a symbol of the state... This task was to be solved by the Special Meeting. "

            Quote: Undecim
            ... but about its colors.

            Could there be a state flag whose colors are not defined? laughing
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 11 October 2020 11: 04 New
              +1
              So you read this too
              I immediately wrote: "Another shnyaga from the Internet," so I read it.
              Could there be a state flag whose colors are not defined?
              Instead of demonstrating militant ignorance, you would have read literature, at least Vilinbakhov, so as not to write nonsense.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 11 October 2020 11: 09 New
                +1

                Read about the State Flag of the Russian Empire, otherwise you will be in holy ignorance to tell tales, referring to Internet garbage cans.
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 12 October 2020 08: 01 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Undecim
                  otherwise you will, in the holy ignorance, tell fables, referring to the Internet garbage dumps.

                  Questions for you.
                  Nicholas II called a Special Meeting in 1910 to determine the colors of the imperial flag, or is it not true (garbage)? If so, then the color of the imperial flag, like it itself, did not exist, because there is no state flag with indefinite colors. Today is blue, tomorrow is white ... delirium.

                  The white-blue-red tricolor, for which all liberal circles of Russia stood up, was approved as a state decision by the Provisional Government only on September 01 [14], 1917. Why did they do it, if, as you say, he was already "our" symbol?
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 12 October 2020 08: 24 New
                    0
                    St. Demetrius of Rostov wrote back in the XNUMXth century about such militant ignoramuses like you, who talk about objects without knowing anything about them, for whom ignorance is a state of mind, and unwillingness to acquire knowledge is a principle.
                    Before you in the comments are two books that have answers to your questions. However, you persist in your ignorance.
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 12 October 2020 08: 40 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Undecim
                      There are two books in front of you in the comments,

                      The article is about the white-blue-red flag. You suggest that I read books about completely different colors of flags (black-red-white, black-yellow-white). This only confirms my innocence - I was not in Russia, before Kerensky, State flag. hi
                      1. Undecim
                        Undecim 12 October 2020 08: 44 New
                        0
                        Yes, you at least read them! You are not showing stubbornness; you are showing stubbornness. There are clear signs of frustration. With this, not to me, it is to a specialized specialist. All the best.
            2. Storm Uesugi
              Storm Uesugi 25 October 2020 04: 07 New
              0
              Yes, you can clearly see how the invaders pinned themselves and they urgently need a flag, yes, those are on.
    2. Storm Uesugi
      Storm Uesugi 25 October 2020 04: 09 New
      0
      is it funny? and before Alexander there was no flag? there is a direct alternative history and it is confirmed about the mass war in the 18th century hmm
  • Konstantin Shevchenko
    Konstantin Shevchenko 10 October 2020 09: 17 New
    +2
    The banner of the Great Regiment of Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich from 1654 to 1701 looks like a yellow flag with a red square.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 10 October 2020 09: 50 New
    +6
    And our story is no less interesting than that of Italian. The same ancient and full of myths.
    The author began so intriguingly and ... immediately moved on to the XNUMXth century. But what about antiquities and myths?
    Actually, if we talk about the single national flag of the Russian state, then as a state regalia, as a symbol of the unity of the state, the State Banner of the Russian Empire appeared in 1742, before the coronation of Elizabeth Petrovna.
    The drawing of the state banner was made by the painter Ivan Yakovlevich Vishnyakov. The banner was made of gold fabric, on which the images of the state eagle and all the coats of arms placed in the large state coat of arms were embroidered. The flagstaff, border and fringe of the canvas were made in the state colors: white, yellow and black. The shaft is crowned with a golden apple (orb) with a state eagle. The years are placed on the Andreev's ribbons of the banner: 862 (foundation of the state), 988 (baptism of Rus), 1497 (acceptance of the royal title) and 1721 (acceptance of the imperial title).
    1. Storm Uesugi
      Storm Uesugi 25 October 2020 04: 05 New
      0
      Oh, this black German eagle, by the way, the Germans originally had a black two-headed one.
      there is generally fun - the Holy Roman Empire with the two head Eagle in the Middle Ages and Moscow Tetirim with the same eagle,
      So much for a united empire in Europe and Asia
  • Undecim
    Undecim 10 October 2020 10: 27 New
    +6
    A bit about legends.
    For example, for some reason, some people believe that the flag of the same Ivan the Terrible was red. And this despite the fact that the description of the "Great Banner" of Ivan IV (1560) has been preserved.
    However, the description of the "Banners of the Most Merciful Savior", under which he besieged Kazan in 1552, has also survived.

    So "some" are absolutely right - the flag of 1552 is red.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 10 October 2020 10: 29 New
      +5
      In addition, in the handwritten Chronicle Observatory, compiled by order of Ivan IV the Terrible in 1568-1576, many miniatures depict red or green banners with a light stripe at the pole.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 10 October 2020 10: 39 New
        +5
        It turns out that finding the original color is an unsolvable task. Except that purple didn't reflect.
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 10 October 2020 11: 23 New
          +3
          It turns out that finding the original color is an unsolvable task.
          To begin with, to narrow down the search field, I would separate, for a start, concepts such as a flag and a banner.
          In Russia, until the last quarter of the 1699th century. there were banners, not flags. The word flag appeared in Russian in XNUMX as a derivative from the Dutch vlag, and initially, perhaps,
          existed in the form flaghouse - the Dutch name for pure wool worsted fabric for flags on ships.
          The banner originally had a completely different meaning. In Dahl's dictionary, it is not even awarded
          separate dictionary entry, it is included in the entry "sign". Old Russian "znamenovatsya" meant "to be different, to stand out in something". For this purpose, in particular, a sacred symbol (sign) of a tribe or group of people was raised on the shaft. The banner, according to Dahl, meant about the same as the banner, that is, a sign, a sign, and only much later acquired the meaning of "a banner on a staff, handed to the troops for honor and as a composite sign during a battle."
          Proceeding from this, it hardly makes sense to look for the "primary color" of the Russian tricolor in the depths of centuries.
          Obviously, it is worth limiting ourselves to the time frame for the creation of a centralized Russian state and the color symbols of the regalia of Russian sovereigns.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 10 October 2020 11: 29 New
            +4
            This is already a bit metaphysical. Some pundits will share, others will be considered a synonym.

            As far as I remember from school, the letter "F" in Russian is borrowed. And it is rare.

            It was argued that in "Poltava" Pushkin is found only in 3 words.

            And also vaudeville with "Fita" and "Firth".

            This is probably an argument in favor of your thesis.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 10 October 2020 11: 48 New
              +3
              This is already a bit metaphysical. Some pundits will share, others will be considered a synonym.
              The pundits have no disagreement about this. The concepts of a flag and a banner are separated in vexillology.
              On the colors of the Russian flag there is an interesting article by the Russian military historian, heraldist, one of the founders of Russian vexillology, Pyotr Ivanovich Belavenets "Colors of the Russian State National Flag: Note of a Member of the Special Council."
              It can be found on the net. If you are interested in a question - take a look.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 10 October 2020 12: 03 New
                +2
                Thanks. I'll make a note.

                And over the Reichstag, our Banner or Flag raised?
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 10 October 2020 12: 17 New
                  +3
                  If we proceed from the definition of vexillology - a banner.
                  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 13: 46 New
                    +4
                    Another name for the banner!
                    To be honest, I would not categorically divide the functionality of banners and flags!
                    In Holland, the flag was originally a banner. A similar situation with the oldest Danish or Swiss! The first was born at sea, and was originally the standard of the king. The second - on land and wandered around Europe along with the Swiss battles! It makes sense to define the status of the flag as a symbol of power! The banner is a symbol of a military unit! The standard is a specific representative, but there are also various jacks, pennants and much more !!! Which also had their practical value !!!
                    So the banner of victory was raised over the Reichstag, and merchant ships sail under the flag of Russia. If you dig further, you can find even more absurdities, but all of them are not fundamental !!! We will only delve further into the derby of heraldry, symbols!
                    Although I do not mind smelling the difference between "lancers with colorful badges", by the way, on the picks! Determined belonging to a particular unit!
                    1. Undecim
                      Undecim 10 October 2020 13: 55 New
                      +3
                      To be honest, I would not categorically divide the functionality of banners and flags!
                      Discover a new direction in vexillology. The old does not agree with you.
                      The banner is the predecessor of the banner. Among the French, oriflamma carried similar symbolism. A banner (sign) is a banner with the image of the Savior. The banner was also called.
                      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 14: 32 New
                        +3
                        Let's take a closer look at the French!
                        Oriflamma - banner (banner)! What did it mean?
                        If I'm wrong, correct it.
                        1. The presence of the king of France on the battlefield.
                        2. Location of His Majesty with the detachment.
                        3. Moreover, she climbed onto the spear only at the moment of the battle, and before that the gonfalon bearer wore the oriflamma on him!
                        In fact, this is the altar banner! Which seems to be on the battlefield for the first time taken by King Philip from the monastery of Saint-Demi !!!
                        In other words, it is also the standard of the King of France !!!
                        With the accession of the Bourbon dynasty, the lily becomes a symbol! I don't remember what happened at Valois. After Agincourt - Saint-Demi was not used. Initially, the standard of Henry of Navarsky - then it is reborn into a naval flag, national flag, etc. At the same time, remaining the standard of the king and the banner of his regiment.
                        The French tricolor was originally the banner of the militia of Paris, the standard of its count, then it was raised to the barricades and? In the beginning, according to Hugo, a green flag competed with the tricolor, but .... "Someone remembered that green is the symbol of the Prince of Condé's house!" Now France lives under its own tricolor, not a green flag !!!
                        In principle, the line flowing from the banner to the flag and back can be continued for a long time!
                        "What's their rag - Reed?" A pig is not a pig, not a tree and a bird of some sort! A golden tree and a nightingale in a field of hearts? Maybe so sir! Sheathed swords, this is Willie the hog, not the Douglases!
                        Best regards, Vlad!
                      2. Undecim
                        Undecim 10 October 2020 15: 00 New
                        +3
                        Oriflamma - banner (banner)! What did it mean?
                        The main meaning of this sacred sign is a campaign, mobilizing forces for war and inspiration at a difficult moment of battle; victory in a battle consecrated by oriflamme was considered only a consequence.
                        They mark the adherence of the supreme ruler of the state to certain ideas and the readiness to defend them.
                        It is included in a number of monarchical insignias and shrines associated with the personality of the monarch, meaning the continuity of his power from the powerful Roman emperors and at the same time the blessing of the primate of the Church, the Pope.
                        It was used not to designate troops, but as a sacred protective sign and an inspiring symbol.
                        The sacred-monarchical significance of oriflamma was expressed in the fact that it was deployed in front of the army only in those cases "when the war was fought against the enemies of Christianity or the whole kingdom and the monarch himself was at the head of the campaign." It was the banner that was directly connected with the supreme power, and therefore could be in the hands of the supreme ruler. Only the king could "deploy oriflamma" - and this meant his personal participation in the war, the fact that he himself went to war, acts at the head of the army.
                        For the sake of interest, read the article "Banner" in the first volume of Viskovatov. If we ignore the insignificant details, the French oriflamma and the Old Russian banner are one and the same.
                      3. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 10 October 2020 17: 37 New
                        +2
                        The funny thing is that many consider iris to be the prototype of lilies. But we have already talked about this.
                      4. vladcub
                        vladcub 10 October 2020 19: 58 New
                        +1
                        Namesake, .small addition: Janet d, Ark was the highest allowed wearing the royal banner.
                        Once there were "days of French culture in the USSR and they talked about it. In France there is a castle d, Ark with a royal lily."
                        It was probably granted to one of her brothers
                      5. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 20: 55 New
                        +2
                        Hello, Vlad!
                        Blue cloth, with golden lilies!
                      6. kalibr
                        10 October 2020 21: 19 New
                        +2
                        But the very banner of Jeanne was white with the image of the blessing Lord, lilies and a dove with a branch in its beak!
                      7. saygon66
                        saygon66 11 October 2020 18: 43 New
                        +1
                        - There was also a white man in lilies - under the Bourbons!
                      8. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 October 2020 20: 50 New
                        0
                        Quote: saygon66
                        - There was also a white man in lilies - under the Bourbons!

                        Countryman, there were no Bourbons at the time of Jeanne D. Ark yet! It is generally accepted that during the Hundred Years War the most frequently used was the banner with a white cross on a blue background.
                        Regards, Vlad!
                      9. saygon66
                        saygon66 11 October 2020 22: 11 New
                        +1
                        - Aha! Sorry! I missed the time frame ...
                        - By the way, during one of the episodes of that war, in the Battle of Poitiers, King John II, the Good, was covered in white surcoat, with embroidered lilies ... True, this did not help him much, he lost the battle, and was captured by the British. ..
  • Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 11 October 2020 09: 31 New
    +1
    Quote: Korsar4
    It turns out that finding the original color is an unsolvable task.

    Solvable. The color of Vladimir Monomakh's banner was scarlet, that is, red. And later all the Monomakhovichs up to Ivan the Terrible inserted red into their banners.
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 14 October 2020 15: 54 New
      0
      Where does the infa come from? Source, if possible, please name
      1. Jurkovs
        Jurkovs 15 October 2020 06: 49 New
        0
        Quote: Icelord
        Where does the infa come from? Source, if possible, please name

        The simplest thing, so as not to look in the lists of the Laurentian Chronicle, open the Radziwill Chronicle with miniatures. It turns out there still Svyatoslav walked under a red triangular banner (10th century), well, the next ones too.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 15 October 2020 07: 31 New
          0
          Thank you, we'll take a look, but Svyatoslav is not Monomakhovich
          1. Efgen
            Efgen 16 October 2020 05: 28 New
            +1
            Beyond the Rip River, let the horses laugh,
            The bell rings in Kiev in the capital,
            Trumpets sounded in Novyegrad;
            Red banners are blowing in Putivl ...

            "The Word about Igor's Regiment", about 1185.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 10 October 2020 14: 11 New
    +3
    Victor Nikolaevich, the flag is not red, it is crimson
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 10 October 2020 15: 05 New
      +4
      Crimson is a shade of red.
      1. Icelord
        Icelord 10 October 2020 15: 28 New
        +3
        But not in heraldry, although in classical heraldry with shades it is very bad
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 10 October 2020 15: 34 New
          +4
          There are also additional colors such as murrey.
          1. Icelord
            Icelord 10 October 2020 15: 40 New
            +3
            I wonder how it is indicated on black and white graphics? There, too, the rules are very clear
            PS really interesting not sarcasm
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 10 October 2020 15: 44 New
              +4
              Englishmen, Scots - diagonal lines from right to left, crossing the horizontal.
              Italians - crossing diagonal.
              1. Icelord
                Icelord 10 October 2020 15: 46 New
                +3
                Thank you very much
      2. kalibr
        10 October 2020 21: 16 New
        +2
        There was such a Lermonologist Irakli Andronnikov, who shot the wonderful film "The Secret of the NFI" on TV, and a number of similar ones. One described how an unknown portrait of Lermontov was found. But ... the piping on the uniform was red, and the red piping was worn by military engineers. So not Lermontov ... And only when a specialist in uniformology looked at the portrait, he said, this "red" was never one, and this is crimson, but there is a border of the regiment in which Lermontov served. So this is sometimes very important.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 11 October 2020 01: 35 New
          +1
          As the leader said, this is paramount
        2. saygon66
          saygon66 12 October 2020 00: 02 New
          0
          - Raspberry edging ... Is it in the Caucasus? And then it Lermontov - Leib-Gusar!
  • sevryuk
    sevryuk 10 October 2020 11: 27 New
    +2
    It should not be forgotten that since 1848 (Prague Slavic Congress) this is the so-called. "Pan-Slavic colors" are represented in most Slavic countries.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 13: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: sevryuk
      It should not be forgotten that since 1848 (Prague Slavic Congress) this is the so-called. "Pan-Slavic colors" are represented in most Slavic countries.

      Interesting remark!
      However, everyone looked up to the tricolor of the Russian Empire!
      On the other hand, he would have been born illiterate, could have wrapped up a fake version, no worse than Fomenko and Nasonov, about how the Dutch and French “stole” our flag! laughing
      Or put forward a hypothesis, in defiance of the respected A. Samsonov, how the "masters of the West" (France and Holland) were outraged by the Russian-Slavs-Aryans, forcing the first to accept the state colors of the national tricolor! In other matters, the shaves with the Americans are not far away, with their blue-white-red !!! The number of stripes, they tried so hard to please us !!! laughing
  • Gunther
    Gunther 10 October 2020 15: 00 New
    0
    Quote: kalibr
    And it was not Germans who attacked us in 41, but fascists!

    wassat
    understandably, the level of the repainted teacher of Marxism-Leninism)))
    Germany had the National Socialist Workers' Party of Germany (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei - NSDAP)
    we were attacked by socialists laughing
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 19: 02 New
      +2
      And if objectively?
      Maybe there is no need to cover the nations that invaded our country on June 22?
      Germans, Austrians, Hungarians, Romanians, Finns, etc. Well, if my grandfathers and great-grandfathers called them "fascists", I also have to call them that, like any resident of Russia or the former republics of the USSR.
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 10 October 2020 19: 51 New
      +2
      Doesn't seem very funny
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 October 2020 03: 29 New
        +2
        I agree with the namesake, I am also annoyed by such opuses about political correctness!
  • UltraRed
    UltraRed 10 October 2020 19: 06 New
    +6
    Despite my absolutely communist convictions, I will note that the opinion widespread among the left and nationalists about the modern Russian tricolor as a "Vlasov flag" is not true.
    The Vlasovites fought under the "Andreev" flag, which the RI Navy had until 1917, and now the flag of the Russian Navy.
    Widely replicated photos from the ROA parade in Pskov are not an argument, because the tricolor was passed there by a former White Guard officer on his own initiative, for which he was punished in a disciplinary manner.
    And about the drawing on the SPG, it's not even funny, there they drew crocodiles ..........
    So, Shpakovsky, he is so ............ Shpakovsky ...... :)
    By the way, if "someone does not know," the order of hoisting banners at the "Presidential Palace" in Grozny in January 1995 is interesting.
    First, the naval flag was hung (by the political officer of the BF BF), since the storming of the houses closest to the palace was completed mainly by the Navy MP with the Baltic Fleet and the Northern Fleet.
    Then the next day, the flag of the USSR appeared on the floor above ..... :)
    And only a couple of days later - the tricolor of the Russian Federation.
    1. kalibr
      10 October 2020 21: 08 New
      0
      Quote: UltraRed
      Widely replicated photos from the ROA parade in Pskov are not an argument, because the tricolor was passed there by a former White Guard officer on his own initiative, for which he was punished in a disciplinary manner.

      And in the second photo?
  • vladcub
    vladcub 10 October 2020 19: 48 New
    +3
    Q. Oh, spa for your work. One feels the skill, and not a primitive hack. But you have small mistakes
    1) in 1918 there were 4 letters on the Russian flag: R.S. f. R. Russian Soviet Federative Republic.
    2) The USSR was formed in 1922 and at the same time the 5 letter C was added to the Russian flag
    1. kalibr
      10 October 2020 21: 07 New
      0
      Quote: vladcub
      The USSR was formed in 1922 and at the same time the 5 letter C was added to the Russian flag

      This is an example of what you look in a book, but you see ...
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 11 October 2020 09: 03 New
        0
        "You look in a book, and you see a fig"
  • vladcub
    vladcub 10 October 2020 20: 33 New
    +1
    Q. Oh, what was the banner of Minin and Pozharsky? In the film there is a white banner and in the center the image of the Savior, but in reality what was the banner? Next is the question: what is known about the banner of the Lyapunov militia? I have not met anything about this
    1. kalibr
      10 October 2020 21: 04 New
      0
      Quote: vladcub
      I have not met anything about this

      And I....
  • kalibr
    10 October 2020 21: 05 New
    0
    Quote: vladcub
    And what was the banner of Minin and Pozharsky? In the film there is a white banner and in the center the image of the Savior, but in reality what was the banner?

    I don’t know, I haven’t found anything about it anywhere ... Was it bad or not at all?
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 10 October 2020 23: 24 New
      +1
      I was also looking for this, it seems not. No, of course, full of speculation. With sources of trouble. At all, there is nothing
  • kalibr
    10 October 2020 21: 25 New
    0
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    you have fields in Penza!

    We also have enough mountains and which ones - just like in your photo. And in the center of Penza, in general, the mountain is so steep that cars can enter it only along one street in icy conditions.
  • UltraRed
    UltraRed 11 October 2020 00: 50 New
    +5
    Quote: kalibr
    And in the second photo?

    What is the "second" ?? Both of your photos are from the "Pskov parade".
    P.S. At the VO "something died" with the monarchist Olgovich in "one trench" ........: D
    This is what Shpakovsky's "life-giving" incompetence does ......... :)

    But seriously, the flag really needs to be somehow changed, tk. it is completely analogous to the banner of one of the parties in the civil war. Moreover, the loser, i.e. rejected by the majority of the people.
    This confirms the antagonism between the modern "elite" and the main part of the Russian proletariat.
    But, as with Niccolo .. ".... because you can replace the elite, but you cannot replace the people." ... :)
    The process of "re-Sovietization" is objective, we hope (and make efforts to this end) and "recommunization" is already at a higher turn of the historical spiral than the state of the Soviet Union.
    As one well-known historical character said in 1917, speaking to the Swiss youth: "We, the old people, may not live to see the decisive battles of this coming revolution." ........... :)
    1. kalibr
      11 October 2020 07: 59 New
      0
      Quote: UltraRed
      until the decisive battles of this coming revolution

      Little blood has been shed in the past, you still want ...
    2. kalibr
      11 October 2020 08: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: UltraRed
      This is what Shpakovsky's "life-giving" incompetence does.

      Here you are right, I did not delve deeply into it. But the fact that this symbolism was used in one way or another, including the very St. Andrew's flag, is beyond doubt.
  • Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 11 October 2020 09: 21 New
    0
    If you dig into the depths of the centuries, then you should also remember Vladimir Monomakh. It is not known how its banner looked in shape, but in the annals a "scarlet banner" was noted, then red. And since many, including Byzantine authors "actually considered Monomakh an imperialist, it was necessary to continue the imperial tradition and adopt a red flag in 1991, but without a hammer and sickle. Thus, end-to-end continuity in heraldry was preserved.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 11 October 2020 15: 40 New
    -1
    Besik - white, blue, red.
  • Alexander Kopelevich
    Alexander Kopelevich 11 October 2020 17: 48 New
    +1
    “But it is known that in 1693 Peter I, sailing on the White Sea, first raised the“ flag of the Tsar of Moscow ”on his yacht. And that flag was ... Stored in St. Petersburg at the Central Naval Museum
  • mishnik19
    mishnik19 12 October 2020 16: 06 New
    0
    Peter could not raise the flag of the "Tsar of Moscow", because he became Tsar only in 1696 after the death of Tsar Ivan Alekseevich. Two previous attempts in 1682 and 1689 were unsuccessful. And about what he really did in the White Sea in 1693-94. in the Book of the Head of the Historical Club (istclub.ru) Alexander Kasatkin "The collapse of the Empire of the Russian Tsars in 1676-1700." https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=Qn5xCwAAQBAJ&hl=ru&pg=GBS.PA1 The Forbidden History of Russia.
    Chapter 15. "1693-1694. How Peter cut a window to Europe from the other side" p. 455-503
    As for the Banner of the Big Regiment, under it he led his army into battle against foreigners during the Civil War in Russia in 1677-1682. Streltsy voivode, endlessly devoted to Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich Stepan Timofeevich Razin Chapters 8 and 9.
    1. Storm Uesugi
      Storm Uesugi 25 October 2020 03: 57 New
      0
      the funniest phrase "only the tsar of Moscow - one Muscovy only
  • iouris
    iouris 13 October 2020 22: 32 New
    0
    What's there to guess? For example, the British came up with a ritual: a hymn (prayer) "God bless the queen (monarch)." The Russians adopted the ritual along with the hymn itself. At first, it never occurred to anyone that the anthem might have a national identity. Well, the flag, in the complete absence of tradition, could be introduced into use by some "military specialist" who entered the Russian military service.
  • Storm Uesugi
    Storm Uesugi 25 October 2020 03: 36 New
    0
    maybe stop poking with an already inverted flag?
  • Storm Uesugi
    Storm Uesugi 25 October 2020 03: 55 New
    0
    taxes about before Ivan the Terrible flags were not what?
  • Storm Uesugi
    Storm Uesugi 25 October 2020 04: 15 New
    0
    in short, I propose such a flag
    1 white
    2 turquoise
    3 black

    white is customary. black calms down and in general the most serious color of the earth, but turquoise is the only color besides acid ones that does not mix with other colors.
    And no one has a turquoise color because before that there was no such color at all ?!
    Proven in PC games - just a buryuz sight against the background of all the other colors look bright and distinct.
    For those who, like the Japanese, for some reason, does not distinguish turquoise from blue - the turquoise colors have a pronounced greenish tint.
    on the other turquoise is blue-green.
  • Storm Uesugi
    Storm Uesugi 25 October 2020 04: 20 New
    0
    and yes, red, like the red colors of sundresses, is a theme of a purely Moscow principality, for example, Novgorod has a green theme.
    the fact that the Moscow principality defeated others still does not make this color truly national
    and Muscovy that they did not love then that now tongue
    and red color and blood and aggression! that programs all the shortcomings of our people:
    1 white - the sky is clear, But
    2 blue - water serenity, going with the flow - submission
    3 red - blood - aggression, war
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet Yesterday, 16: 55 New
    0
    They made a cocktail for Peter the 1st: red from below, then blue, vodka on top. The king drank and said: this is the color of our flag. This is our tradition, we took one flag drunkenly, destroyed another country ..