Military Review

Warriors from the column of Marcus Aurelius

132

Typical depictions of scenes of the war between Rome and the Germans: Roman legionnaires in the same type of weapons on a campaign; prisoners were captured, cattle were captured, bridges with strong railings were built across the rivers, the horsemen of the Roman cavalry sit on blankets hanging very low, but they do not have stirrups ...


Let your deeds be as you would like to remember them at the end of life.
Marcus Aurelius, Roman emperor


Ancient civilization. Interest in ancient civilization has always been very high. The achievements of civilizations that existed before it, that is, the Bronze Age, may even be comparable with it, but they did not leave written monuments for us. Her creations do not speak to them, “all the evidence”, as modern investigators would say, is exclusively circumstantial. Not so with antique history... Her monuments in stone, ceramics and metal, in gold and silver, of lead and copper, and even fragile glass have come down to us; we also have written texts. Made on stones and clay, papyrus and parchment. They all talk about different things, and there are many of them. For example, the diaries of the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius have come down to us. And their value is so great that it was said: "If they were the handbook of every official and every ruler, the world would be different!" In addition, the written sources of this time supplement the found and preserved artifacts, and they begin to talk to us, that is, their evidence is much more significant than the silent megaliths of previous eras. However, in addition to many texts, statues and bas-reliefs have survived to our time, looking at which we can personally imagine, let's say, the appearance of the same Roman soldiers during the war of Rome with the tribes of barbaric Marcomanians. The monument in question is called the column of Marcus Aurelius. And that's just about her today and we will tell you.

Warriors from the column of Marcus Aurelius

Column in the Square of the Columns

Let's start with what kind of monument it is. where is it, what it is. So, the Column of Marcus Aurelius is a monumental column of the Doric type that stands in Rome on the Piazza Colonna, and this square is named after her. It was built between 176 and 192 years as a monument to the events of the Markoman war. Its prototype was the famous column of the Emperor Trajan. It is known that Marcus Aurelius lived in 121-180 AD, and ruled from 161 to 180 AD. That is, they began to build it during the life of the emperor and, of course, with his approval, but finished already 12 years after his death. And this is not surprising, since the work on this monument required a lot of effort, time and expense. The fact is that the entire surface of the column, as in the case of Trajan's column, is covered with spiraling bas-reliefs telling about the events of the Marcomanian war. And making them all was undoubtedly a rather difficult and lengthy affair.


Her device ...


Column base. Giovanni Battista (or Giambattista) Piranesi (1720-1778), Italian painter who painted bas-reliefs of a column

The height of the column is 29,6 m, the height of the pedestal is 10 m. The total height of this monument was 41,95 m, but over time 3 meters from its base after the restoration carried out in 1589 turned out to be below the surface of the earth. The column's shaft is made of blocks of Carrara marble (28 blocks) with a diameter of 3,7 meters. Just like Trajan's Column, Marcus Aurelius's Column is hollow inside and there is a spiral staircase with about 190-200 steps leading to its top. On a square platform there once stood a sculpture of Marcus Aurelius himself. Staircase lighting is provided through small vertical windows.


The lower part of the column. Giovanni Piranesi


The very top of the column. Giovanni Piranesi

But the most important thing, of course, is its bas-reliefs. Moreover, everything that is depicted on them is very noticeably different from the reliefs on Trajan's column. Differs primarily in much greater expressiveness. The play of light and shadow on the surface of the column of Marcus Aurelius is much more noticeable, since the stone carving here is made deeper than on Trajan's column, where the figures are flatter. In addition, here the heads of the figures are slightly enlarged, which, apparently, was originally conceived for greater accuracy in conveying facial expressions. But at the same time, we see at the same time a decrease in the quality level of elaboration of clothing details, and weapon characters. True, the sculptors can be understood, because there are literally thousands of figures depicted on the column!


And this is how its upper part looks in the photo ...

The preservation of the figures on this column is somewhat worse than on Trajan's column, but since the carving here is deeper, that is, it is essentially a high relief, they make a much stronger impression. That is, Trajan's Column seems smoother, and Aurelius's Column - more embossed, and so it is in reality.


Legionnaires cross the Danube on a floating bridge. The horse's equipment is very clearly visible in the foreground. Legionnaires are represented in three types of armor: lamellar loricas, chain mail (shown in the bas-relief as simply "holes") and scaly shells. Helmets - some with a ring on the crown, others with a small sultan. Oval shields

Interestingly, in the Middle Ages, climbing the stairs to the top of the column was such a popular pastime that the right to receive an entrance fee for it was put up for auction every year in Rome. Over time, namely by the 1589th century, the statue of Marcus Aurelius was already lost, and in XNUMX Pope Sixtus V decided to restore the column. This was entrusted to the architect Domenico Fontana, who decided to erect a sculpture of the Apostle Paul on it, smeared over the destroyed reliefs (about which the corresponding inscription was made on the pedestal), but in it he made a mistake and called the monument "Antoninus Pius's Column".


The hike continues. We see the standard-bearers in scaly shells, but not in helmets, but with hoods on their heads, and the rider - in a very short chain mail with scalloped hem, similar to very short chain mail from Trajan's column. That is, this type of armor has not undergone absolutely any changes over the past 80 years! Ankle swords hang on the left, no one has pugio daggers, and no soldier's belts (kingulum). Now these types of equipment are in the past!

By the way, the difference between these two columns, Trajan and Aurelius, is only eighty years, but not only the change of relief to high relief is striking, but also the general artistic manner. If you look closely, you can see that the scenes of war on the column of Marcus Aurelius are shown less pretentiously than on the column of Trajan. Experts believe that the style of the column of Marcus Aurelius is closer to the famous Arch of Constantine the Great than, again, to the column of Trajan. Amusing can be considered the fact that heroizing the Roman legions, now consisting of mercenaries, and not only the indigenous inhabitants of Rome, at the time of Marcus Aurelius ceased, which was reflected in their image on the column. That is, it is believed that both the Arch of Constantine and the column of Marcus Aurelius show us the transition from ancient art, heroizing its characters, to art that is more simple, realistic, Christian. And this was, of course, still a beginning, which later received its full development.


The Romans set fire to the houses of the Germans, and those with crooked knives and shields in their hands are trying to defend themselves. Graphic images of bas-reliefs from the book "Column of Marcus Aurelius, Emperor of Rome" published in 1704. Giovanni Pietro (1613-1696) and Bartoli, Pietro Santi (1635-1700)

Well, as for the battle scenes, we can say the following about them: in the lower part of the column we see the battles of the Romans with the Germanic tribes, and on the upper ones they are already fighting against the Sarmatians. Again, it is obvious that in the image of the soldiers of the Roman legions, which already consisted mainly of mercenaries, their heroization began to be absent during the time of Marcus Aurelius. Moreover, the sculptors seem to sympathize even more with the beaten Germans: those with the most primitive weapons in their hands resist the legionnaires, chained in plate armor and chain mail, and they burn their houses and fields and take women into slavery. In general, we do not see robbers in the Germans and Sarmatians, but the Romans appear as such on this column.


Roman cavalry attacking the Germans. Please note that the Romans wear tight trousers like breeches that go over the knee. The sculptors portrayed the Germans as tall and beautiful people! Their pants are wider and reach the ankles. It's funny, although understandable, that the chain mail of the Roman horsemen does not even cover the buttocks. And you go to the train sitting on metal rings!



Horse fight

Separate images from the column were repeatedly used as illustrations for books on the history of Ancient Rome. But here you should keep in mind the time of creation of this monument: the end of the II century AD, and, accordingly, only about the warriors of this time, he can tell us!


The Romans built a "turtle" and under its cover they lay siege to the fortifications of the Germans. Those throw at them whatever comes to hand: cart wheels, burning torches, stones, swords and even vessels with water, apparently hot. But they cannot do any harm to the Romans!


Horse Germans flee from the battlefield and die on the ground. Roman horsemen chase them, steal cattle and with pickaxes destroy German dwellings and some kind of stone walls. Such picks were found by archaeologists ...


A very naturalistic image above left: a Roman soldier thrusting his sword into the eye of a German. "Woe to the vanquished!" - one word!

Already in the 1613th century, exceptionally accurate sketches were made from the bas-reliefs of the column, the authors of which were the famous painter and antiquarian Bellori, Giovanni Pietro (1696-1635) and Bartoli, Pietro Santi (1700-1704). There is a well-known book "Column of Marcus Aurelius, Emperor of Rome" published by these authors in XNUMX, images from which have now been digitized by Emory University and the Robert W. Woodruff Library, thanks to which they can now be used without actually referring to this old edition.


And this is how the inscription on the pedestal of the column looks like today
Author:
Articles from this series:
Prehistoric Argonauts
Riddle: riders on the bas-reliefs with clubs in their hands
Minoan Pompeii: a mysterious city on a mysterious island
Antique ceramics and weapons
Gold for war, the fourth wonder of the world and Ephesus marble
Homer's poems as a historical source. Antique civilization. H. 1
Croatian apoxiomen from the water. Ancient civilization. H. 2
132 comments
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  1. Far B
    Far B 8 October 2020 06: 08
    0
    "If they were the reference book of every official and every ruler, the world would be different!"
    Only if at the same time every official and every ruler wants to become different))) Without this, the diaries of Marcus Aurelius will remain just a beautiful accessory, and the above quote is just a beautiful phrase.
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 8 October 2020 09: 13
      -2
      The play of light and shadow on the surface of the column of Marcus Aurelius is much more noticeable, since the stone carving here is made deeper than on Trajan's column, where the figures are flatter


      "marble carving" actually turns out to be marble stucco molding and this has already been proven.



      and so on.
      https://semislov.livejournal.com/578118.html
  2. Deniska999
    Deniska999 8 October 2020 06: 16
    +2
    But it is curious how many years these bas-reliefs were made. Judging by the quality of the images, work for many years.
    1. kalibr
      8 October 2020 07: 04
      +6
      It was built for several years. Moreover, the Romans already used a "brigade contract".
  3. vomag
    vomag 8 October 2020 06: 21
    -17 qualifying.
    Column shaft made of Carrara marble blocks
    Somehow everyone forgot the lifespan of Carrara marble of only 1300 years! it should fall apart 500 years ago .. but no worth it! a masterpiece and all that! .... this is an ordinary remake which is 250-300 years old at most ..
    1. kalibr
      8 October 2020 06: 51
      11
      Quote: vomag
      this is an ordinary remake which is 250-300 years old at most ..

      But how could the ancients write about him? And describe how it was built ... That is, Ancient Rome is also 250-300 years old?
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 8 October 2020 07: 28
        12
        That's right, Vyacheslav Olegovich! The comrade is right, only, as usual, a "minor" detail has been forgotten. This information is correct for facing stone, the thickness of which rarely exceeds 50mm.
    2. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 8 October 2020 11: 48
      19
      Quote: vomag
      Somehow everyone forgot the lifespan of Carrara marble of only 1300 years! it should fall apart 500 years ago .. but no worth it! a masterpiece and all that! .... this is an ordinary remake which is 250-300 years old at most ..

      The commentary is just a classic of the folk history genre. Literally all the canons have been observed and presented in a concise and complete form. I really want to disassemble it in detail, point by point, since according to this scheme, in one form or another, most of the assertions of new chronology and other similar delusional ideas are built.
      See - here's the main statement:
      Quote: vomag
      the durability of Carrara marble is only 1300 years

      Clearly. Definitely. With the obligatory remark
      Quote: vomag
      Somehow everyone forgot

      Further - arithmetic, with which you can not argue: 192 + 1300 = 1492 - the date when the column was supposed to crumble. 2020-1492 = 528 years, well, we generously omit 28 years, 500 years remain. It is logical. Mathematically. Should have fallen and crumbled.
      Quote: vomag
      but no worth it! a masterpiece and all that!

      Contradiction, ha ha! A contradiction between logic and mathematics! Checkmate, historians!
      Now for the main conclusion.
      Quote: vomag
      this is an ordinary remake which is 250-300 years old at most ..

      Beautiful, convincing. But not really, in my opinion. smile
      The first thing that raises doubts is the basic premise about the durability of marble. The marble lies in the Carrara mountains for many millions of years and nothing is done to it. They get it - as good as new. This means that "not everything is so simple." In the mountains, its shelf life is unlimited, but once extracted and processed, how is it preserved? Of course, it depends on how exactly it is processed and in what conditions it is. If somewhere there is research about marble - its resistance to time, depending on the size of the piece, the quality and method of its processing, climate, and in these studies, it is for a product similar to the column of Marcus Aurelius in relation to the climate in Rome that the figure is given in 1300 years old, I will not have any questions - I agree. But so far the figure of 1300 years seems to me to be sucked from the thumb and in no way justified. So it's as easy to refute this statement as it is to say it. I'll just say, "Not true. Carrara marble will last 4200 years, not 1300. It will stand for another 2350 years."
      The second thing I will note is the "everyone forgets" remark. This is, as it were, an additional confirmation of the truth of the subsequent statement. Everyone knows, but they just forget. Didn't you know? Well, what are you, my friend, everyone knows this, you just forgot a little. Here we remind you. Such an introduction can be used in other forms, for example, such as "experts know". The main thing is that if "everyone" (including, in the first place, the reader, actually) - then "forgot", and if "known" - then "specialists", "experts", etc. However, in the latter case, a more or less thoughtful reader may think about links to the works of these "specialists", which is undesirable. "Forgetting" is more universal and does not require additional argumentation.
      I will not touch on mathematical layouts, since they are based on an initially flawed statement, all calculations, no matter how correct, will lead to a flawed conclusion.
      The third thing I wanted to draw your attention to is the final conclusion. It is generally enchanting - it is not based on absolutely anything. The author of the commentary does not even try to substantiate the concrete figures "250-300 years". Actually, the authors of works on folk history and more impressively do the same. The calculation is simple - we have just unconditionally "refuted" the construction of "traditional history", thus creating a certain "vacuum" in the historical knowledge of the reader, and any void requires filling. So we will fill it out right there - we will offer the reader our own version - as soon as we shake his faith in the truth of the previous one. The key word is immediately. The main thing is not to give thought.
      Imagine that the author of the comment would not have written the last phrase. Stunned by his revelation, readers would feel discomfort from a certain emptiness formed in their minds due to this "exposure", and would start looking for something to fill it with on their own, that is, to think. Some might even go back and think about the validity of the exposure itself, and this should not be allowed. Therefore - your version, albeit unfounded, albeit poorly argued, the main thing is to immediately place it in the vacant place and approve it there.
      The author of the commentary did not bother to argue, but it was possible to squeeze into this commentary, for example, the passage that "the level of marble processing demonstrated by the masters who made the column was achieved only in the 250th century, therefore ..." and further in the text about 300-XNUMX years old. Fomenko himself would have slapped something else on the type of "legionnaires' helmets resemble the helmets of soldiers of imperial Germany," for example. However, such argumentation is dangerous. Here you have to pick up something very clear and simple, indisputable, otherwise - again doubts. So, in some cases it is better to do without it - there will be nothing for skeptics to refute, and if something is not refuted, then it is true, right? smile wassat
      In short, on the example of a short commentary, one can see the whole essence of folk history. There will not be enough time and effort to refute each of their theses, but this can be done and in many cases it has already been done, one has only to look for what real scientists say on this or that issue.
      Yes, I completely forgot.
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the article. It was interesting. smile hi
      1. kalibr
        8 October 2020 12: 07
        +6
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        It was interesting.

        I am sincerely glad. There will be more details about marble ...
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 8 October 2020 19: 15
        +4
        1492 - date when the column was supposed to crumble
        Michael, you are encroaching on the holy! Well this is a sacred date!
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 8 October 2020 20: 23
          +5
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          you encroach upon the sacred!

          And it could have been beautiful ... From the mast of the Columbian carrack one can hear the cry "Earth!" and at the same second at the other end of the Earth, in Europe, a column falls, which has stood for 1300 years ...
          It could be quite epic ...
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 8 October 2020 20: 29
            +4
            The fallen column breaks the shackles of the Renaissance striving for life and buries the Middle Ages with its fragments! The Epoch of Omnipotence of the Masters of the West is coming!
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 8 October 2020 21: 17
              +3
              Or Columbus himself is shot on his return - for not fig.
              The column is being restored from Russian granite and it stands forever.
              At the top of the column - Ivan the Terrible kills the last navigator - for, again, not fig.
              Why did it all go wrong? crying
      3. Simargl
        Simargl 8 October 2020 19: 51
        +6
        Bravo! Straight short guide "How to recognize a militant charlatan"!
      4. Liam
        Liam 8 October 2020 20: 34
        +1
        Have flat earthers been declared war yet?
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 8 October 2020 21: 02
          +3
          Only fools.
          1. Liam
            Liam 8 October 2020 21: 16
            +1
            To each his own. Don Quixote devoted the best part of his life to the fight against windmills, although in fact he did not know what to do anymore.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 8 October 2020 21: 22
              +4
              In fact, Don Quixote is a figment of Cervantes' fantasy, if you didn't know. I'm just having fun.
              1. Liam
                Liam 8 October 2020 21: 32
                +1
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                figment of Cervantes' fantasy

                It's good that Captain's not obvious.
                By the way, you shouldn't insult Bara, he's not. canny.And without it, 90% of your voluminous posts.
                And you need to fight the smart ones, it keeps you in good shape. A war with a fool inevitably relaxes and leads to your own degradation.
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 8 October 2020 21: 42
                  +3
                  I have no conflicts with the smart ones to fight. By the way, keep in mind - I am not going to pay you money for the science of life. So you try for nothing.
                  1. Liam
                    Liam 8 October 2020 22: 03
                    0
                    You have already hinted the other day about financial difficulties, so do not worry, poverty is not a vice, and I am driven not by self-interest, but exclusively by Samaritan motives.
                    The old guard of the section surrenders something .. Already that article is neither from you, nor from both Cats, no lines on topics. Only voluptuous pictures of pin-ups and nuns in stockings, and kilotons of air concussion addressed to Fomenko .. I say the Bar will ruin you
                    1. Trilobite Master
                      Trilobite Master 8 October 2020 22: 25
                      +5
                      Yeah, here you are now bothering me on the topic of the article, probably ... laughing
                      Then I will teach you too - for free.
                      If you want to communicate on the topic of the article - write comments on the topic of the article.
                      If you want to communicate with people - be human.
                      If you want to communicate with smart people - do not play a fool, an innocent girl or something like that ...
                      You know, when I want to let off some steam, for example, by nagging someone unpleasant, I will turn to you - in this matter you proved to be quite professional. And I do not see any other benefit from our communication, unfortunately.
        2. Hantengri
          Hantengri 8 October 2020 22: 50
          +4
          Quote: Liam
          Have flat earthers been declared war yet?

          Why fight them? There is always a nonzero probability that every flat-earther, sooner or later, will reach the edge of the Earth and, of course, will wind up with it. So what: we sit down on the shore of something, stock up on popcorn and wait, sir.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 9 October 2020 23: 00
            +4
            Igor! Leave the popcorn to the beggars!
            Especially advanced "flat-earthers" know that the earth is spherical. Their theory is: The earth was once flat and disc-shaped. People lived on one side, dinosaurs on the other. At one "perfect" moment, a huge meteorite hit the center of the dinosaur plane, forming a giant dent, which, due to centrifugal forces, transformed into a ball. Thus, dinosaurs were on the inner surface of the sphere, and people, on the outer, otherwise, how can we prove that we are digging up their remains, and not ours? laughing
      5. vladcub
        vladcub 8 October 2020 20: 42
        +2
        Michael, good evening, glad that you are healthy. If you were sick, then you would give a damn about all the nonsense of Novokhronolozhtsy. And once you take it apart before the liver, that is: "there is still gunpowder in the flasks." As Taras Bulba said.
        Comrades, does everyone know Gogol's pseudonym?
      6. vladcub
        vladcub 8 October 2020 21: 39
        +3
        "The helmets of the legionnaires resemble the helmets of the soldiers of imperial Germany", probably, the Kaiser had spioneer helmets among the Romans.
        To know where the Roman arsenal is, perhaps the Kaiser has not dumped everything from there? He liked the helmets and he stole them, and I like Roman swords. I don't need much, but one or two and no more
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 8 October 2020 21: 51
          +2
          What's good about these swords? Low quality flat pieces of iron. Take the Celtic ones, they are better. More beautiful, anyway.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 October 2020 04: 40
            +3
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            What's good about these swords? Low quality flat pieces of iron. Take the Celtic ones, they are better. More beautiful, anyway.

            But Vlad noted an interesting point in relation to weapons in Rome, especially in the era of the republic - pragmatism multiplied by efficiency!
            The armament of the Roman legionary is built around the pilum and scutum. Armor and sword are secondary. The status of a Roman citizen, the line where you stand in manipula!
            The system of alliances, initially so complex that it has constantly evolved to simplify !!!
          2. Icelord
            Icelord 10 October 2020 15: 55
            0
            I read somewhere that the metal was better there, but the edge was sharpened
      7. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
        Andrey Krasnoyarsky 9 October 2020 15: 07
        +2
        Mikhail, an excellent rebuke to fans of pseudo-historical nonsense. I will add: as I had to read from a folk historian that the Colosseum is a remake, because its blocks are fastened with cement, and cement was invented only in the 19th century. Then my soul could not bear it, and I replied that the blocks of the Colosseum were fastened not with cement, but with concrete. And if cement really appeared only in the first half of the 19th century, then concrete is at least 4 thousand years old, so during the construction of the Colosseum it was quite famous and widely used. Among the overthrowers of history, wild ignorance successfully coexists with tremendous conceit and an irrepressible desire to shock the "official historians".
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 9 October 2020 16: 01
          +1
          Quote: Andrey Krasnoyarsky
          wild ignorance successfully coexists with huge conceit

          For the most part, this is the case, although, I think, there are exceptions.
          I have always wondered if there are those among the supporters of pseudo-historical theories who received the first impetus to embark on this path not from reading the work of some guru of this direction, such as Fomenko, but, having begun to doubt something on their own.
          Well, for example, let's take a school history textbook written for children. An adult, if desired, based on his own life experience (always subjective), may find in him a lot that is not explained, and may disagree with many things. From here, by the way, there is a breeding ground for pseudo-history - something that cannot be explained to a school-age child (and there are no other explanations more suitable for an adult, "within walking distance") unscrupulous authors explain to this adult in their own way.
          So: is there at least one convinced supporter of pseudo-historical theories who, with a clear conscience, absolutely not distorting his soul, will be able to say: "At first I doubted myself, tried to find an explanation from official science, did not find it, and only then turned to ..." more goes the surname - Fomenko, Klesov, Chudinov, Petukhov and others?
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 10 October 2020 07: 22
            +1
            Maybe there is.

            I know one colleague. Very erudite. And held in professional activities. It's really interesting with him.

            But ... If not to touch on history. And there is a set:

            “Yaroslavl is Novgorod.
            In Pushkin's grave - not Pushkin.
            The author of "12 chairs" - Bulgakov, etc. "

            Not very interesting. Although he knows the history of his Far East very well, he has a tenacious mind, observation - is, excellent eloquence.

            Where does the craving for conspiracy theories come from? I just translate the speech into something else.
          2. Andrey Krasnoyarsky
            Andrey Krasnoyarsky 10 October 2020 13: 21
            0
            I would add that those who like to discredit the "official history", as a rule, have not read anything from this story, but are judged either by the statements of folk historians, or based on their own fantasies. It is useless to ask what specific "official historians" they read, what monographs or articles of these historians can at least name? And what specific provisions are wrong there? Favorite technique of such "whistleblowers" - I have not read it, but I condemn it.
    3. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 22 November 2020 14: 04
      0
      Quote: vomag
      Column shaft made of Carrara marble blocks
      Somehow everyone forgot the lifespan of Carrara marble of only 1300 years! it should fall apart 500 years ago .. but no worth it! a masterpiece and all that! .... this is an ordinary remake which is 250-300 years old at most ..

      Долговечность естественная или под воздействием внешних факторов? А как насчет найденных голов и скульптур,остатков Афинских колонн?
  4. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 8 October 2020 07: 00
    +5
    Ankle swords hang to the left,
    The image suggests otherwise. In the above fragments, there are different options for wearing the sword, but the right-side prevails.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 8 October 2020 11: 56
      +3
      In theory, gladiuses are on the right, spats are on the left.
      1. kalibr
        8 October 2020 12: 04
        +3
        I looked from my side. Anton from the side of the soldiers ...
  5. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 8 October 2020 07: 07
    +5
    As a builder, I never tire of being surprised at many works of antiquity. Both in architectural and artistic (sculptural) sense. Many of them, even now with all current technologies, would cause certain production difficulties.
    And this column is a combination of both the first and the second.
    By the way, I didn’t know that it was hollow and had steps for climbing to the top.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich.
    1. kalibr
      8 October 2020 07: 11
      +6
      By the way, the Pantheon in Rome is also built of marble, although not all!
      1. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 8 October 2020 12: 06
        +4
        Quote: kalibr
        By the way, the Pantheon in Rome is also built of marble, although not all!

        Not quite so: it was built of bricks, the dome was filled with concrete and faced with marble.

    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 8 October 2020 07: 21
      +7
      Many of them, even now with all current technologies, would cause certain production difficulties.
      Igor! hi
      Simply, many skills that greatly facilitated the life and work of our colleagues in antiquity were forgotten in the process of scientific and technological revolution.
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 8 October 2020 07: 25
        +3
        Yes, I'm not even talking about stonecutters anymore, but about the same lifting mechanisms. Now it is clear - you can call a mobile tower crane to the city center. And then? They did the same, but with what difficulties ...
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 8 October 2020 07: 49
          +9
          Even 100 years ago, daily horse care was a daily routine. For a modern person: there is so much hemorrhoids !!!
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 8 October 2020 08: 54
            +8
            But how long was it to think while you lead the horse to the watering hole.

            Changing the way of life in every detail changes life itself.
          2. kalibr
            8 October 2020 08: 54
            +9
            Even 50 years ago, writing text for me with a pen and a feather, which I dipped in black ink and blotted it with a blotter was commonplace. And today I even forgot how to write with a gel pen, because, as I write exclusively on a computer ...
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 October 2020 09: 10
              +8
              Laziness is the engine of progress!
              Thank you for the article Vyacheslav Olegovich !!!
              1. kalibr
                8 October 2020 10: 42
                +6
                Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                Laziness is the engine of progress!

                That's it!
                1. vladcub
                  vladcub 8 October 2020 20: 51
                  +4
                  So let's drink to laziness. Which drives progress!
                  1. kalibr
                    8 October 2020 23: 15
                    +4
                    Quote: vladcub
                    So let's drink to laziness. Which drives progress!

                    Laziness!
        2. kalibr
          8 October 2020 10: 45
          +3
          Then there were taps too. An arrow made of logs, fixed at the top of the structure. Below is a squirrel-like wheel in which people walk + a chain hoist system. The ropes go up, on command people step over the wheel and this is how the ascent is carried out. And there was an elevator in Nero's Golden Palace!
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 8 October 2020 10: 55
            +4
            there was an elevator in Nero's Golden Palace!
            And Otis, poor fellow, fancied himself an inventor! laughing
            1. kalibr
              8 October 2020 12: 00
              +3
              In the Niva magazine, I don't remember what year there was an engraving from a photo showing a dramatic test of the Otis elevator, with a stone block over the head of its creator. The cable was bitten by scissors and the block fell on his head, but ... the cable clamping system had to work and save him. And it worked and everyone was convinced that the elevator car would not break in the event of a cable break!
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 October 2020 12: 32
              +3
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              there was an elevator in Nero's Golden Palace!
              And Otis, poor fellow, fancied himself an inventor! laughing

              In Winter, as far as I remember, they also installed something similar.
            3. Simargl
              Simargl 8 October 2020 19: 55
              +2
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              And Otis, poor fellow, fancied himself an inventor!
              Otis did not develop an elevator, which they knew for more than one thousand years, but catcherwhich made the movement of people safe.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 8 October 2020 20: 01
                +3
                I am aware, but you are not familiar with my role.
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 8 October 2020 12: 04
            +5
            With the column, I think, it could have been even easier - you could have made an embankment. For the assault on the fortresses under enemy fire, many-meter measurements were made to the walls, for the construction of the column in a peaceful environment, make an embankment along which to deliver the next block up (yes, at least roll up like a wheel smile ) - not great work.
  6. Engineer
    Engineer 8 October 2020 09: 13
    +7
    It is funny, although understandable, that the chain mail of the Roman horsemen does not even cover the buttocks. And you go to the train sitting on metal rings!

    It is not a problem if you make cuts. The Kangyuys and other steppe dwellers galloped in plate-like caftans almost to the ground. But on the column and the infantrymen are bare-assed, including in the last image. Most likely, a certain pictorial canon prevails.
    1. Mihaylov
      Mihaylov 8 October 2020 12: 17
      +4
      Quote: Engineer
      But on the column and the infantrymen are bare-assed, including in the last image. Most likely, a certain pictorial canon prevails.

      Quite possibly. Sculptors and artists always have questions about the depiction of weapons.
      Rider's Classic Cutout Pants (Late India):
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 8 October 2020 12: 23
        +5
        Please be careful with the chases). Especially for a different period and region
        On Trajan's column there are Sarmatians in scaly stockings or overalls. And their horses too laughing ... Scientists label this as heresy. And they talk about artistic stylization)
        1. kalibr
          8 October 2020 12: 47
          +4
          Quote: Engineer
          Please be careful with the chases). Especially for a different period and region
          On Trajan's column there are Sarmatians in scaly stockings or overalls. And their horses too. Scientists label this as heresy. And they talk about artistic stylization)

          This is exactly what was described in detail in my previous articles about this column.
        2. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 8 October 2020 12: 48
          +3
          Quote: Engineer
          On Trajan's column there are Sarmatians in scaly stockings or overalls. And their horses are laughing too. Scientists label this as heresy. And they talk about artistic stylization)

          They took it off my tongue, I was just thinking about it
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 8 October 2020 12: 56
            +5
            In my opinion, Nefedkin and Rafael D "Amato took the idea of ​​scaly roads seriously. It should be refreshed in the evening, I can forget it. But the rest are not."
            Simonenko (a well-known specialist in the Sarmatians) called Nefedkin's opus "fantasy" right in his monograph.
            Russian historical professional community is highly toxic laughing
            1. Mihaylov
              Mihaylov 8 October 2020 14: 06
              +1
              Quote: Engineer
              Nefedkin and Rafael D "Amato took the idea of ​​the scaly highway seriously.

              Okay, chasses, think about the poor horse laughing
              1. Engineer
                Engineer 8 October 2020 14: 10
                +2
                And why is the Sarmatian horse better than the Sarmatian? Let him suffer too
                1. Mihaylov
                  Mihaylov 8 October 2020 14: 18
                  +2
                  Quote: Engineer
                  And why is the Sarmatian horse better than the Sarmatian? Let him suffer too

                  As far as I remember, the Sarmatians, judging by the bones, are the most "affected" of all: up to 20% with injuries, the highest rate!
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 8 October 2020 14: 23
                    0
                    How to distinguish Sarmatian from Nesarmatian by the skeleton
                    1. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 8 October 2020 14: 26
                      +2
                      Quote: Operator
                      How to distinguish Sarmatian from Nesarmatian by the skeleton

                      I was referring to the burials identified as Sarmatian: they revealed the highest percentage of injuries, probably mostly from combat. Wrote from memory, maybe wrong
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 8 October 2020 14: 31
                        0
                        Simultaneously with the Sarmatians, the Scythians and Dacians, later the Goths and the Huns, operated on the same territory.

                        Most likely, injuries were characteristic of all high-horse nomads who did not know the saddle and stirrups.
                      2. Beringovsky
                        Beringovsky 8 October 2020 22: 19
                        +1
                        Quote: Operator
                        Simultaneously with the Sarmatians, the Scythians and Dacians operated on the same territory, later the Goths and Huns

                        The type of Sarmatian burials differs from others. By the way, on the map of the Black Sea region, according to the types of burials, it is clearly visible that the same Goths pressed against the rivers, but the steppe belonged to the Sarmatians.
                      3. Operator
                        Operator 8 October 2020 22: 27
                        0
                        Nevertheless, how do Sarmatian burials differ from, for example, Scythian ones?
                      4. Beringovsky
                        Beringovsky 8 October 2020 23: 13
                        +2
                        Well, for example, the latitudinal orientation of the position, ditches around the mounds, the custom of sticking weapons into the bottom of the grave, meat food, daggers with a bone handle, all this is typical of the Scythians.
                        This is for the 4th-5th centuries BC.
                        What period are you interested in?
                      5. Operator
                        Operator 9 October 2020 01: 21
                        0
                        Scytho-Sarmatian - from the 4th to the 1st century BC
                      6. kalibr
                        9 October 2020 11: 08
                        +2
                        There is such a wonderful book by E. Chernenko from Soviet times. Can be downloaded from the web. Highly recommend...
                      7. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 9 October 2020 12: 12
                        +2
                        There is such a wonderful book by E. Chernenko from Soviet times.

                        You can also recommend a more modern study, which Engineer (Denis) mentioned above in the thread:

                        Also online
                      8. kalibr
                        9 October 2020 15: 18
                        +2
                        It's just that Chernenko is a classic. He was the first Soviet author to be invited to publish in Osprey, which is worth a lot.
                      9. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 9 October 2020 15: 50
                        +1
                        Quote: kalibr
                        It's just that Chernenko is a classic. He was the first Soviet author to be invited to publish in Osprey, which is worth a lot.

                        Classics are classics, "but there should be meat snacks in the house as well" laughing , so to speak, fresh trends in "Sarmatian studies".
                        I liked the name of the publishing house - "Naukova Dumka". wink
                      10. kalibr
                        9 October 2020 16: 42
                        +1
                        Quote: Mihaylov
                        I liked the names of the publishing house - "Naukova Dumka"

                        Ukrainian publishing house of the times of the USSR
                2. Operator
                  Operator 9 October 2020 21: 57
                  0
                  The question remained unanswered: so how did the burials of the Sarmatians differ from the burials of the Scythians (except for the presence of copies of the book by E. Chernenko)? laughing
                3. kalibr
                  10 October 2020 07: 36
                  0
                  Andrew! So after all, human memory is imperfect. I remember that they were different because at one time I knew this book almost by heart. There are pictures and they stand before my eyes ... But I can't say for sure ... I can't. I do not remember. And I threw away the scans. On the Internet there is ...
                4. Operator
                  Operator 10 October 2020 10: 38
                  0
                  I am wildly sorry, but the thesis is proved by the author of the thesis laughing
  • Engineer
    Engineer 8 October 2020 14: 25
    +3
    I once posted a link to an article stating the abundance of not only injuries, but also degenerative changes, including those indicating premature aging.
    1. Mihaylov
      Mihaylov 8 October 2020 14: 36
      +2
      Quote: Engineer
      I once posted a link to an article stating the abundance of not only injuries, but also degenerative changes, including those indicating premature aging.

      Probably, the vague information that has been deposited in my memory on this issue goes back to this article, but in an indirect way, because I have not read the article
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 8 October 2020 14: 44
        +3
        If you want to figure it out yourself
        http://annales.info/sarmat/small/nav6b.htm
        Reconstruction of the social organization of the Late Sarmatians according to anthropological data
      2. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 8 October 2020 14: 46
        +3
        Quote: Engineer
        If you want to figure it out yourself
        http://annales.info/sarmat/small/nav6b.htm
        Reconstruction of the social organization of the Late Sarmatians according to anthropological data

        Thank you, put it in your favorites, read it the other day.
      3. Engineer
        Engineer 8 October 2020 15: 28
        +4
        To heap
        Article Late Sarmatians of the lower Volga region (according to paleopathology data)
        Of the 121 male skeletons, 56 (46%) had trauma
        Curiously, frontal hyperostosis is sometimes found in men. This is attributed to an overabundance of androgens.
      4. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 8 October 2020 15: 38
        +2
        Quote: Engineer
        Article Late Sarmatians of the lower Volga region (according to paleopathology data)
        Of the 121 male skeletons, 56 (46%) had trauma

        I could not resist, I read the article, fortunately it is small, with 20% I clearly got excited.
        Quote from the article: "A large percentage of traumatic injuries (more than 70%) were recorded on the late Sarmatian skeletons."
        Curiously, frontal hyperostosis is sometimes found in men.

        So this is probably hereditary?
      5. Engineer
        Engineer 8 October 2020 15: 43
        +3
        Unlikely
        The studied sample of Sarmatians of the 1999nd – 322th centuries. n. e. reveals relatively high incidence rates of frontal hyperostosis. Compared to the Middle Sarmatian series, in which this deviation is more often recorded in women, which correlates with paleopathological and clinical data (Hershkovitz et al., 4. P. XNUMX), frontal hyperostosis in the late Sarmatians was recorded nine times and only in men (Table. XNUMX).

        Rather, something in the lifestyle provoked
      6. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 8 October 2020 15: 49
        +3
        Quote: Engineer
        Rather, something in the lifestyle provoked

        I looked on the Internet: it is generally much more common in women than in men. Another reason may be infectious, but due to the specifics of the sample (recorded 9 times and only in men), there was probably really some specific reason.
  • kalibr
    8 October 2020 10: 48
    +4
    Quote: Bar1
    "marble carving" actually turns out to be marble stucco molding and this has already been proven.

    On the column of Aurelius? It indicates that during the restoration it was done anew ... There is an article about this. But this picture has nothing to do with the column. It is al-Qaeda fighters (banned in the Russian Federation) who are breaking something in their East, so this is not proof!
  • Undecim
    Undecim 8 October 2020 11: 05
    +8
    By the way, the difference between these two columns, Trajan and Aurelius, is only eighty years, but not only the change of relief to high relief is striking, but also the general artistic manner.
    Already in the XNUMXth century, extremely accurate sketches were made from the bas-reliefs of the column
    Here you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, are entangled in reliefs - sculptural images on a plane. Trajan's Column is a bas-relief or low relief - a type of sculptural relief in which a convex image protrudes above the background plane by no more than half the volume of the depicted object or objects.
    Column of Marcus Aurelius is a high relief or high relief, a type of sculptural relief, differs from a bas-relief in that the depicted object can protrude from the background by more than half of its volume.
    The image on the high relief is deeper, more voluminous and more complex than on the bas-relief, which makes it possible to depict multi-figured scenes and landscapes in more detail.
    As for the "general artistic manner", Trajan's column is patrician, and Marcus Aurelius's is plebeian.
    1. kalibr
      8 October 2020 12: 03
      +5
      That's how it is written for me, only in other words. But it is also written what is deeper and what is high relief ... How I do not like these petty quibbles, by God ... What is it for?
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 8 October 2020 12: 28
        +9
        How I dislike
        I do not like
        Untangle the knots.
        I cut them
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, criticism in any of its forms is an indispensable attribute of public creativity. Imagine - even Tolstoy and Pushkin were criticized and the names of their critics also remained in history!
        Imagine, in two hundred years the site will ask: "Who is Undecim?"
        And in the comments they will write: "As you don't know, he criticized Shpakovsky himself!"
        1. kalibr
          8 October 2020 12: 46
          +2
          I am not against criticism, especially from you, Viktor Nikolaevich. I don't like petty criticism ... For you, this is not the "caliber" of criticism!
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 8 October 2020 12: 59
            +6
            "Which one of you is without sin?" - said the unknown copyist of the New Testament.
            Small criticism, it just sets off the dignity of the work. A large one threatens to turn into a devastating one. Today I have no inspiration for the latter, so I limited myself to a small one.
            I will improve.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 8 October 2020 13: 07
          +7
          Imagine, in two hundred years the site will ask: "Who is Undecim?"
          And in the comments they will write: "As you don't know, he criticized Shpakovsky himself!"

          "Bloody smart and terribly humble!"
          1. kalibr
            8 October 2020 13: 53
            +4
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            "Bloody smart and terribly humble!"

            You rightly noticed that!
          2. Korsar4
            Korsar4 8 October 2020 13: 56
            +4
            Two ways out - or to found a scientific school, which will be honored even after 200 years. Or populate the Earth with your offspring.
          3. Liam
            Liam 8 October 2020 20: 51
            +3
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            "Bloody smart and terribly humble!"

            The character is really not Nordic)
        3. vladcub
          vladcub 8 October 2020 20: 57
          +3
          V. N, bravo well said
  • Bar1
    Bar1 8 October 2020 15: 35
    -7
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    In the mountains, its shelf life is unlimited, but once extracted and processed, how is it preserved? Of course, it depends on how exactly it is processed and in what conditions it is.

    you would, someday learn at least some simple logic.
    ANY MATERIAL, even marble, even granite, even iron is subject to aging, i.e. weathering, cracking, discoloration, corrosion. Therefore, even any stone, one half of which lies in the ground, and the other on the surface, these parts will differ from each other. That which will be intact in the ground, that will age on the surface.


    Trajan's Column in Rome, pieces of carving type, in fact, stucco molding, have already begun to fall away.
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 8 October 2020 18: 19
      +7
      Quote: Bar1
      you would, someday learn at least some simple logic.

      You should learn to read to begin with.
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      In the mountains, its shelf life is unlimited, but once extracted and processed, how is it preserved? Of course, it depends on how exactly it is processed and in what conditions it is.

      Overpowered?
      About the stucco molding:
      in 1589 Pope Sixtus V decided to restore the column. This was entrusted to the architect Domenico Fontana, who decided to erect a sculpture of the Apostle Paul on it, smeared over the destroyed reliefs (about which the corresponding inscription was made on the pedestal)

      This is from the article itself.
      You know, Bar, if a miracle happens and you suddenly suddenly become wiser, like this - once! - and you will become much smarter, for you it can turn into a serious tragedy. If the suddenly wiser Bar decides to re-read his creations on VO, or wherever else you leave your mental traces, he, seeing what you are now sprinkling, will simply shoot himself in shame ... crying
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 8 October 2020 18: 29
        -6
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        In the mountains, its shelf life is unlimited,


        And I said that your maxim about that in the mountains the material for some reason does not deteriorate, this is the stupidity of the highest grade. In the mountains, just the same stone is very susceptible to destruction. And that miracle-Yudo is the main word, there is something else that is gundit opposite.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 October 2020 21: 01
          +5
          Quote: Bar1
          In the mountains, just the same stone is very susceptible to destruction

          Just stay, just fall!

          Perforated stone (Middle Urals). Yes, our friend, in the mountains the mountains deteriorate just like that, and nothing else !!
          Now, show a "similar hole" in Troyan's column?
  • yehat2
    yehat2 8 October 2020 16: 46
    +2
    I did not know that the Romans made drawings on stone so accurately.
    I have to go and see it live.
    1. kalibr
      8 October 2020 18: 02
      +3
      They were masters. Moreover, realism was put at the forefront. It is enough to compare the Greek and Roman busts ...
  • Mark kalendarov
    Mark kalendarov 8 October 2020 17: 43
    +1
    Great monument of history. And it's very good that the playful Christian hands didn't get to him ... In general.
  • Liam
    Liam 8 October 2020 20: 48
    +1
    however, he made a mistake in it and called the monument "the column of Antoninus Pius"
    .
    He did not make any mistake. At that time it was believed that this column was built by Marcus Aurelius and Lucio Vero in honor of Antoninus Pius. It was then called the Column of Antoninus.
    The error was revealed only in 1704 when the pedestal of the real column of Antonin was discovered.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 8 October 2020 21: 05
    +1
    Comrades, I never cease to be amazed at the skill of ancient architects. Just think how much time has passed, and the column is worth it. This is how it was necessary to calculate the proportions so that it stood! And then everything was counted in my head.
    Below, the Leader admires from the point of view of the builder, and I, as a man in the street, bastard from the level of knowledge of ancient architects
    1. Liam
      Liam 8 October 2020 21: 12
      +3
      Quote: vladcub
      And then everything in my head was considered

      Well, they counted with the help of a unit known to this day called Abak. And with mathematics, it was all the same in antiquity. Pythagoras' theorem, geometry, Euclid, the radius of the globe ... that's all
  • bzbo
    bzbo 9 October 2020 00: 48
    +1
    All have the same shields. Like a remake ...
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 October 2020 04: 56
      +3
      Quote: bzbo
      All have the same shields. Like a remake ...

      The army of Rome was built around a manipular system, sharpening a shield and a pilum. So it's not surprising that the shields are the same.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 9 October 2020 09: 58
        +2
        The army of Rome was built in different ways at different times. The manipulative system, its heyday, nevertheless falls on the times of the republic.
        This, however, does not change the stupidity of the previous comment. A person simply cannot imagine how the army of the Roman Empire was recruited, armed and prepared. By the way, not only the shields were the same, but everything else - the weapons of the legions were uniform, except that in the cavalry and light infantry, some liberties were allowed with equipment. Legionnaires, who fought in a close formation, shoulder to shoulder, shield to shield, simply could not afford at least some variety in equipment. Their main strength was in discipline and uniformity of actions. Yes, besides, they armed themselves at the expense of the state, and not for their own, as in mercenaries or knights of the Middle Ages, that is, standard.
        By the way, about the shields. From the above images on one I saw the classic scutums - where the turtle is depicted. Interestingly, this is a tribute to the artists of the ancient tradition, or indeed, during the time of Marcus Aurelius, units were preserved armed with these shields, characteristic, rather, of the manipular system, which was not practiced in the Roman army since the time of Julius Caesar, as it were.
        1. kalibr
          9 October 2020 11: 04
          +3
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Interestingly, this is a tribute to the artists of the ancient tradition, or indeed, during the time of Marcus Aurelius, units were preserved armed with these shields, characteristic, rather, of the manipular system, which was not practiced in the Roman army since the time of Julius Caesar, as it were.

          Yes, these are such riddles presented to us by the artifacts of those times and who knows how to answer them. The shields are clearly not to scale. Was that so, or was it an element of glorification? The chain mails are too short ... Was that how it was or was it customary to portray? Lots of questions, but no answers.
        2. Icelord
          Icelord 9 October 2020 11: 25
          +2
          I believe a tribute to tradition, it is believed that scutums were no longer there during Aurelius
        3. Engineer
          Engineer 9 October 2020 13: 30
          +3
          The displacement of scutum by oval shields began later, from the 3rd century AD.
          It was at this time that the movement towards the divergence of the limitans-committees began.

          sources are listed under the video
          Peter Connolly also writes that the rejection of scutum occurred in the 3rd century
          1. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 9 October 2020 14: 27
            +2
            Quote: Engineer
            Peter Connolly also writes that the rejection of scutum occurred in the 3rd century

            Bannikov also writes about the first half of the 65rd century: A.V. Bannikov Roman army in the IV century p. XNUMX.
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 9 October 2020 14: 45
              +3
              I don't really like the explanation in the video, but the chronological outline is conveyed quite clearly
              1. Icelord
                Icelord 10 October 2020 12: 54
                +1
                I'm not special in ancient Rome. So I read something, you are probably right, it just came across somewhere that began from the second century. In any case, the wiki agrees with you)))
        4. Engineer
          Engineer 9 October 2020 19: 20
          +3
          By the way, not only the shields were the same, but everything else - the weapons of the legions were uniform, except that in the cavalry and light infantry some liberties were allowed with equipment. Legionnaires, who fought in a close formation, shoulder to shoulder, shield to shield, simply could not afford at least some variety in equipment. Their main strength was in discipline and uniformity of actions. Yes, besides, they armed themselves at the expense of the state, and not for their own, as in mercenaries or knights of the Middle Ages, that is, standard.

          Mikhail, almost everything is debatable.
          The cost of equipment was deducted from the salary of the legionnaires. This is a fairly well-known fact
          “Soul and body are assessed by ten asses a day: they also have to buy weapons, clothes, tents, they also have to buy off the ferocity of the centurions, they also buy exemption from work from them

          Yes, the equipment was mostly standardized, but unification in the modern sense could not be. In the article in the picture depicting the crossing of the Danube, among the warriors in segmentates, there is one in chain mail and one in scaly armor.
          Armor centers in Rome made massive amounts of armor and other equipment. But from center to center the production forms were different.
          Now I am reading Bishop, he already has four segmental reconstructions based on the corresponding finds.
          In any case, we have as many as three main types of armor (laminar, chain mail, scaly) for 1-3 centuries. Therefore, even the equipment of the legionnaires was no longer uniform.
          As for the auxiliaries, auxiliary troops, they were included in the army in whole units.
          Initially, all the weapons of such detachments were local and only then were they replaced with those produced in Rome. Batavs, Tungras, Syrian archers all had their own national flavor and weapons
          For example, 5500 Sarmatian horsemen were sent to Britain after the Marcomanian War. Judging by the Signifer tomb in England, they retained at least their armor and dragon badges.
          In the 3rd century, the line between auxilias and legions was blurred. The standards became more and more local and the armament of the army more and more variegated.
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 9 October 2020 21: 07
            +2
            You know, Denis, for the sake of sports interest, one could argue. smile
            Well, so, in general, you are right, although, to be honest, I do not see any particular discrepancies with my comment.
            I agree that different legions formed in different parts of the empire could be radically different in armament and equipment and even in tactics. But within the framework of one legion, they still tried to adhere to uniformity.
            I agree that the armor could be decorated in different ways, and generally be different, but shields, swords, pilums and other items that were taught to use the same "manuals" had to be extremely the same, except that there could be some upgrades for a specific owner ...
            And so, on little things, I also agree with many things. smile
            I have no polemical fervor today. smile
          2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 9 October 2020 21: 35
            0
            Mikhail, by manipulative formation, I meant dense foot formations.
            It doesn't matter if it's a phalanx, a cohort or a centuria. The most important thing is uniformity in the shield! The Greeks chose a round shield, the Romans - scutum, etc. Plutarch, by the way, pointed out that the Romans borrowed the scutum from the descendants of the Spartans.
            During the time of the Republic, equipment was purchased at their own expense, from the state they began to receive salaries from the time of the Garkhas. Finally, this order was consolidated after the reforms of Mary, who actually removed the qualification of citizenship and allowed the proletarians to serve.
            So the "conditional uniformity" of weapons begins with the appearance of the cohort. However, they also existed for a long period at the same time. At the same time, I repeat, everything was built around scutum, pilum and gladius. The uniformity made it possible to fight in tight formation. In the future, the shield changed, but it remained the same (letting it go conditionally), so I think the construction went around it. How the Swiss battles formed the formation around the lances (spears)!
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 9 October 2020 10: 11
    +2
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Laziness is the engine of progress!
    Thank you for the article Vyacheslav Olegovich !!!

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  • Icelord
    Icelord 9 October 2020 11: 27
    +1
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, where are the famous Roman military "horned" saddles? Can I see it badly, or are they not on the bas-relief?
    1. kalibr
      9 October 2020 15: 22
      +3
      They are on the bas-reliefs, but I did not give it ... The volume of the article just goes nowhere. I just finished the material about Ephesian marbles. There were initially 9500 characters - the optimal size. But ... I liked two more sculptures and the volume just began to grow uncontrollably. But "there" there are not two, but many more. Who will read the material in 30 thousand characters, even with pictures?
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 October 2020 05: 22
        +2
        ... Who will read the material in 30 thousand characters, even with pictures?

        I will read it with pleasure, put it down and begging for more !!!
        1. kalibr
          10 October 2020 07: 32
          +2
          The problem is, Vladislav, that a journalist should focus on the average consumer level of the audience.
  • kalibr
    10 October 2020 07: 33
    +2
    Quote: Icelord
    Where are the famous Roman military "horned" saddles?

    Probably it will be necessary to write about them separately. The topic is interesting!
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 10 October 2020 14: 39
      0
      It will be very interesting. But still it is strange, did not all cavalrymen have such saddles?
      1. kalibr
        10 October 2020 14: 40
        +1
        No, not everyone!
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 10 October 2020 14: 41
          0
          So write who had and who did not. Look forward to. Thank you in advance
          1. kalibr
            10 October 2020 14: 56
            +2
            Igor, I'll write, but the book by a French author, translated into English. lang. Therefore, it is difficult to read. Pictures - b / w graphics, that is, a lot of work.
  • Seal
    Seal 12 October 2020 17: 57
    0
    Quote: kalibr
    It was built for several years. Moreover, the Romans already used a "brigade contract".
    And what, do you have data on the date of the start of construction and the date of completion of construction? Do you have the name of the foreman? Maybe some outfits, eh? In the sense, outfits are not clothes, but outfits for the completion of completed work.