"Not paid attention to camouflage": experts called the mistake of the Armenian troops, leading to the success of the UAV of the Azerbaijani army

Military experts discuss new cadres of the Azerbaijani armed forces, which show the striking of enemy positions. These shots make it possible to answer the question of what is one of the reasons that the Armenian troops are suffering significant losses precisely from aviation (unmanned).

At the same time, in the armed forces of Azerbaijan themselves they say that they continue to use Drones Turkish production. We are talking about such UAVs as Bayraktar.

The attention of experts is drawn to the following fact: for the sixth day now, the newly erupted conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh has been going on, and the Armenian side is well aware of the threat from the air (suffering significant losses precisely from the use of shock drones), but the positions of the Armenian side still remain without any effective camouflage. This is a big mistake, leading to extremely negative consequences for the Armenian troops.

On the one hand, the military equipment of the Armenian troops is in special trenches. But this allows you to hide it, perhaps, from a ground observer. For drones of the Azerbaijani armed forces, positions remain at a glance.

By the way, technique is not always dug in. For obvious reasons, this is technically difficult to do in mountainous areas. But if the same army trucks, Tanks, anti-aircraft missile systems occupy long-term positions just by the side of the road, counting on the "folds of the terrain", then, again, these "folds" do not play any significant role for drones. The appearance of large concentrations of Armenian military personnel in open areas of the terrain also looks like an unacceptable tactic when taking into account the work of unmanned aviation in Azerbaijan, both reconnaissance and strike.

The complete absence of anti-aircraft camouflage of equipment and positions could still be explained in the first days of the flared up conflict, but not in the case when battles and shelling have been going on for almost a week. The only explanation is that the troops are operating in a time pressure mode, and it may be useless to engage in camouflage at a time when the enemy has probably managed to draw up maps of all the main positions.

Comments

[NEXUS]

Looking at how the Armenians are fighting, the feeling is that they have no idea at all about camouflage, battle tactics, strategy, etc. ... a few days ago, the commander of the Armenian art in the video showed how he put the art ... something that didn't smell like disguise, just take it and cover it in a crowd easily and simply.

[loki565]

All the problems stem from the fact that there is nothing to withstand the UAV, hence most of the losses. They detect targets, direct arto at them, or attack themselves. And masking will not help here, you can still see everything in the thermal imager. An effective means is to detect the signal of the UAV operators and strike at them, but they do not have such technologies.

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

Quote: loki565

An effective means is to detect the signal of the UAV operators and strike at them, but they do not have such technologies.

Well, for example, in Syria, the Turks carried out equipment that was not protected by any air defense at all. Then the air defense started working and the tale of the omnipotent drones ended abruptly. Moreover, the Syrians used very limited forces, 4 Armor and 4 Buka, as they said in our Ministry of Defense. Beeches carried bayraktars, and their armor covered them from rockets and missiles launched against them. Completely balanced air defense system. It is impossible to do this on the basis of the Wasps and Kroogi that the Karabakh people have. With disguise, too, everything is sad.

[loki565]

Well, they have neither the one nor the other. More and less modern air defense is being drawn to the capital and large industrial facilities. And the antediluvian Wasps, small-sized targets simply do not see, or cannot reach in height / range.

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

By the way, Pashinyan recently bought 35 pieces of the decommissioned Osa AKM in Jordan. They can be used instead of layouts.
https://zen.yandex.ru/media/safarli/gordost-pashiniana-ili-metallolom-armianskoi-armii-5ed747c06637221c93c2ef4e

[loki565]

By the way, Pashinyan recently bought 35 pieces of the decommissioned Osa AKM in Jordan. They can be used instead of layouts.

I wonder why he needs a decommissioned technique, to disassemble it as donors for his own? so there the resource is also worked out, a dubious acquisition, it would be better to buy 5 pieces of shells, or better tori)))

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

Quote: loki565

I'd rather buy 5 pieces of shells, or better tori)))

SAM "Tor" is a very complex and expensive complex that requires constant qualified maintenance and support by the manufacturer's specialists. Otherwise, it is practically impossible to maintain the systems available in the troops in working order for a long period of time. There are not so many "tori" in the Russian army. The shell does not seem to be expensive, but it is needed as part of a battery, 4-6 pieces, this is already a significant amount. "God is always on the side of the big battalions" p.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

By the way, Pashinyan recently bought 35 pieces of the decommissioned Osa AKM in Jordan. They can be used instead of layouts.

it would be more efficient to buy a couple of decommissioned Pashinyans and use them as Pashinyan's models.

[alex51217]

Repeatedly found and took on auto-tracking crows at a distance of 4-6 km. So the wasp has the potential to shoot down UAVs, the question is in people.

[loki565]

Then a question for the operators, the video shows Wasp with a working all-round radar, but the installation itself is not deployed towards the UAV, which means it does not see it.

[Old tanker]

The question is about the altitude of detection and destruction of the "Wasp", which is lower than the maximum flight altitude of the Bryoktarov.

[chingachguc]

do not see...

[Serg koma]

Quote: Aristarkh Ludwigovich

With disguise, too, everything is sad.

Autumn, the good weather will end soon, low cloudiness, rain, gusty winds - they probably count on this ... Maybe there are not enough nets, but the area is somehow deserted, you can't hide with trees / bushes, you can't pretend to be a stone.

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

Quote: Serg Koma

Maybe there are not enough nets, but the terrain is somehow deserted, you can't hide with trees / bushes, you can't pretend to be a stone.

Probably need to improvise if you want to live.

[Incvizitor]

If the Armenians thought, they would not need to buy the shells in advance. Now they were running around when the cock pecked.

[Cowbra]

Figase! There is a S-300, there is no electronic warfare at all ... And in general,

Buy an industrial "multilock" to determine the frequencies of the "emitting means" of the UAV, bring everything transmitting on the air at similar frequencies and stupidly turn on the transmission when a signal appears on the multilock screen. The transmitters on the UAV are weak - you don't need to clog the signal a lot.

[fiberboard]

And if you try to mask with smoke? I have read that the Iraqis specially put tiles for the thermal imager. They put on a camouflage net and put tiles, like a small potbelly stove. The Americans were deceived.

[loki565]

Here, plywood models of the Wasp are also used, etc. only these are half measures. Arta should shoot her, you can't disguise her, the supply vehicles, rotation, will also be under attack. There can be no question of any attack or counterattack, just sitting in the trenches, in general, a game with only one goal. It must be admitted that Azerbaijan was better prepared for this war, at least it won the information war by 100%

[Alex Justice]

I must admit Azerbaijan is better prepared for this war

Everyone saw the German strategy in Europe, but still half of the Soviet army was pulled to the border and allowed to encircle.
Everyone saw how dangerous UAVs were in Syria, but the lesson did not work.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Alex Justice

half of the USSR army was pulled to the border and allowed to encircle

And the other half (the army of the internal districts) did not have time to reach the border and stretched out in several "waves" in echelons throughout the country. If the two halves were together, it would be a completely different conversation. The same Zhukov analyzes this situation in his memoirs. From his point of view, the first half should have been immediately assigned to the line, to which the second half would have had time. And even then give battle. But this meant leaving a significant part of the territory of the USSR without a fight, which politically no one dared to do. As a result, we were beaten in parts, as the troops entered the battle as they arrived.
Thus, it was not a miscalculation in the strategy (they lined up and allowed to surround, as you say, without taking into account experience), but there was a banal lack of time (to gather the troops into a fist). A miscalculation in logistics, in operational art, in the estimation of the time of the attack, if you will. But not in strategy.

[uhu189]

It was almost 30 years ago and thermal imagers were different then. And to drown them with what? There is no forest

[Lopatov]

Quote: uhu189

And to drown them with what?

Gasoline.
Rather, do not "heat", there is "flameless oxidation"

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: fiberboard

if you try to mask with smoke? I have read that the Iraqis specially put tiles for the thermal imager. They put on a camouflage net and put tiles, like a small potbelly stove. The Americans were deceived.

so well deceived that Saddam was already hanged.
tales of the outskirts of the Vienna Woods.

[fiberboard]

Saddam was sold by his generals, not smoke as a disguise. In our country, as the Chechen wars showed, this is also the case.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: fiberboard

Saddam was sold by his generals, not smoke as a disguise.

father-in-law disguise in smoke does not help from having a talentless and corrupt command.
remember this.

[Old tanker]

Catalytic stoves were invented in the Soviet army. And the troops "developed" their analogue: a pan from a tank shot / a bucket of solarium mixed with sand or sawdust / branches and a super-perforated sheet of iron.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: loki565

All the problems from the fact that there is nothing to resist the UAV, oh

Don't write nonsense. There are problems if they are not dealt with. The battles in NKR have been going on for several years and UAVs have been used more than once, and in the world they are massively used everywhere. In Syria, Libya, at the Ruin. And instead of studying someone else's experience, the Armenians have a sweet paw of multi-vector.
We in Syria massively shot down UAVs and intercepted their control. There is only one problem - chaos in their heads.

[loki565]

Don't write nonsense. There are problems if they are not dealt with. The battles in NKR have been going on for several years and UAVs have been used more than once, and in the world they are massively used everywhere. In Syria, Libya, at the Ruin. And instead of studying someone else's experience, the Armenians have a sweet paw of multi-vector.
We in Syria massively shot down UAVs and intercepted their control. There is only one problem - chaos in their heads.

Both in Syria and Libya, the UAVs destroyed a bunch of equipment and, most importantly, stopped the offensive, that is, they completed their task, completely replacing the attack aircraft. Yes, they were used before, but now they are a real flock. Several reconnaissance, shock, plus kamikaze. Yes, they even had their own UAVs in the frame when they worked on targets. And they also used something new in the form of unmanned An2 to detect air defense.

[Isim soyad]

An2 to identify / detect enemy air defense, shot down, take "salam aleikum from Bayraktar", did not shoot down, ram on anything. Well, you about this, and so I hope so.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Mavrikiy

The battles in NKR have been going on for several years and UAVs have been used more than once, and in the world they are massively used everywhere.

Massive active - since 2016

Quote: Mavrikiy

There is only one problem - chaos in their heads.

It's just that Russia did not pay enough attention to this. Armenia's partners from NATO, even more so.
Therefore, there was nowhere to get for free. It's a pity to buy

[vlad106]

Quote: Spade

Armenia's partners from NATO, even more so.
Therefore, there was nowhere to get for free. It's a pity to buy

Quote: Spade

Quote: Mavrikiy
The battles in NKR have been going on for several years and UAVs have been used more than once, and in the world they are massively used everywhere.

Duc more than 5 million already all Armenians in Russia, could have thrown at least $ 100 on their drones and electronic warfare equipment ... for them $ 100 is nothing at all. palaces were built in Russia for 50-100 million, cars are expensive. money grabbed in Russia hundreds of billions
Or do you feel sorry for money for the defense of your homeland?
they'd rather "Vanya" ask for help ...

[Lopatov]

Quote: vlad106

Duc more than 5 million already all Armenians in Russia, could chip in

They would rather ask for it themselves. A lot of. "For the needs of the diaspora". And "khachkars" will be put on this money. Near some Irkutsk

[Albay]

Where are the facts of massively shot down Turkish UAVs in Syria?

[Doccor18]

This is what technological superiority looks like. You can have 5 combat divisions, a lot of armored vehicles and thousands of patriots of your country and ... lose, because there are no decent air defense systems.
Thousands of inexpensive cruise missiles and hundreds of UAVs are a new challenge for army headquarters.

[Lesorub]

Quote: loki565

All the problems from the fact that there is nothing to withstand the UAV, hence the majority of losses

No matter how unpleasant it may sound - but who prevented Armenia from modernizing and purchasing new models of air defense and REB - after all, it was worth thinking after the last exacerbation, but things are still there - and the losses from UAVs and kamikaze drones are increasing every day.

[Olezhek]

No matter how unpleasant it may sound - but who prevented Armenia from modernizing and purchasing new models of air defense and REB - after all, it was already worth thinking after the last exacerbation, but things are still there - and the losses from UAVs and kamikaze drones are increasing every day

I will say briefly: finances interfered, or rather their condition.
But there was a magical way out: to be friends with Russia and get everything cheap or brotherly
They didn't want to.
Alas

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Olezhek

finances got in the way

Then in the hands of shovels - and we dig holes, like those gnomes: for technology, for people, for warehouses, for covert movement. For so many years in positions, what did they do? Have you played backgammon? It was possible to build a second Armenia underground.
Or imagine if all those who protested against Russia there were given shovels and crowbars - how many underground shelters would they have built during the time spent on the rallies? But on the squares on Russia to excite - the time is, the strength is. And there was no time and effort to bring the line of contact with the sworn enemy into the proper form from an engineering point of view (taking into account modern realities).

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: loki565

All the problems stem from the fact that there is nothing to withstand the UAV, hence most of the losses. They detect targets, direct arto at them, or attack themselves. And masking will not help here, you can still see everything in the thermal imager. An effective means is to detect the signal of the UAV operators and strike at them, but they do not have such technologies.

The question here is not even technology, but politics. Armenia has a very simple opportunity to stop this beating of its technique in one minute. The vaunted drones have a combat radius of 150 km on a control signal. And Iskander? Demolish in Azerbaijan, just in case, ALL airfields and that's it, there is nowhere to fly and there is no need to look for a command post. But this is a real war, and the current leadership of Armenia is not sure that we will support them. We rode too high in the squares, shouting "Get out of the way, Russian invaders." And without us in a real war they are Turkey for one tooth and a week of time ...

[Nehist]

UAVs are not needed as an airfield, so the Iskanders pass by

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Nehist

UAVs are not needed as an airfield, so the Iskanders pass by

How interesting is it that a twelve-meter fool weighing under a ton takes off and lands without an airfield? This small reconnaissance UAV does not need an airfield. And the shock is not a maize from the field to take off. He loves a good lane / road, fuel, ammunition, control equipment ... And if you seriously offend the airfield network, cover the warehouses of aviation fuels and lubricants, hangars with equipment, equipment for controlling and monitoring the air situation, radars, and so on, then you think how at a minimum, attack drones will have difficult times. And without them, the forces that are in the region without the Turks will not make much of it ...

[Nehist]

Gg back in the 30s of the last century, aircraft under three tons took off from mobile installations! And in the USSR, the Mig - 15 had mobile launch platforms. Learn history. UAVs are mainly launched from a catapult. They don't fucking need an airfield, learn the mate part

[Oleg123219307]

Quote: Nehist

Gg back in the 30s of the last century, aircraft under three tons took off from mobile installations! And in the USSR, the Mig - 15 had mobile launch platforms. Learn history. UAVs are mainly launched from a catapult. They don't fucking need an airfield, learn the mate part

Show me at least one mention of such capabilities in Bayraktar TB2. And in the meantime, look at its chassis and tell me where you see an autonomous launch, even in theory. Your argument about moment 15 is stupidity. The fact that there were such samples does not mean that the airfields were not used for all 15 minutes. And in the case of Bayraktar TB2, there was not even a mention in the performance characteristics of such opportunities.

[Andrey sh]

IMPACT UAVs from the catapult do not start. Moreover, they do not land in an open field. And they consume a lot of fuel. Intelligence - yes. But also only small ...

[Albay]

Some need it.

[Nehist]

Y-yes ... With normal camouflage, no UAV will see you! Even a scout passing in one and a half meters will not see you. So it’s in vain that you’re so ... From your own experience - Until you have rested at close range, and then by accident! And this knowing the search area

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: loki565

And camouflage will not help here, you can still see everything in the thermal imager

How will a thermal imager help if the equipment is in an underground, say, shelter?
In Syria, countless burrows have greatly contributed to the reduction in the number of terrorists from aviation. Until recently, those who did not have any air defense at all, but how many years have they been removed from these holes?
Yes, it is more difficult to build such shelters in mountainous areas, but this is by no means impossible. Moreover, the Armenians had many years to prepare.
The same DPRK, after the war, literally buried its troops under the ground, realizing what the aggressor's air superiority threatened. And there, by the way, also mountainous terrain occupies most of the territory.

[dauria]

they have no idea about camouflage, combat tactics, strategy, etc.

Nonsense. This is a fight where boxers are forced to fight with pillows while standing on one leg. It has nothing to do with tactics, let alone a strategy. Both sides are bound by restrictions, cannot strike at the entire depth of the front (200 km), the second lines of defense, reserves, communications remain untouched. There is not even the ability to choose the direction of the strike. Fight here, don't fight here, airfields, don't touch the railway nodes.
So with these UAVs - that there were no spotters and scouts in the domestic one? Or bastards did not manage at first? Where are the fighters? They sit at home. You can't use fists, only pillows and on one leg.

[NEXUS]

Quote: dauria

Nonsense. This is a fight where boxers are forced to fight with pillows while standing on one leg.

Oh how ... then answer me the question, why did Azeibarjan manage to build a plant for the production of OWN UAVs, but Armenia put horseradish on its army?

[Nehist]

By the way, Russia also put in a serial UAV, our cat didn’t cry, but a sane UAV doesn’t exist at all! Solid surrogates of unknown purpose

[Olezhek]

Oh how ... then answer me the question, why did Azeibarjan manage to build a plant for the production of OWN UAVs, but Armenia put horseradish on its army?

Armenia "did not put in", it has no pennies

[vlad106]

Quote: Olezhek

Oh how ... then answer me the question, why did Azeibarjan manage to build a plant for the production of OWN UAVs, but Armenia put horseradish on its army?

Armenia "did not put in", it has no pennies

And for hundreds of thousands of palaces in Russia to build, Hotels, restaurants cafes and other eateries enough? Moreover, there are thousands of factories, factories, fish and meat processing plants, which together give hundreds of billions a year ...

[uranium]

Why does she need factories? Russian pensioners pay for deliveries of Russian weapons

[alexmach]

Nonsense. This is a fight where boxers were forced to fight with pillows while standing on one leg.

That is, quite a classic modern war. The same "low intensity" conflict.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: dauria

Nonsense. This is a fight where boxers are forced to fight with pillows while standing on one leg.

One does not interfere. A pillow on one leg also needs to be fought wisely. A bad dancer and two legs are not good.

[Interlocutor]

Looking at how the Armenians are fighting, the feeling is that they have no idea at all about camouflage, battle tactics, strategy, etc. ... a few days ago, the commander of the Armenian art in the video showed how he put the art ... something that didn't smell like disguise, just take it and cover it in a crowd easily and simply.

I agree with you by 10000000%.
This is some kind of piiiiiiiiipppp, and not the organization of service at the level of any platoon.

[Maz]

If this continues, then with the onset of winter there will be a shooting range in the mountains for Israeli and Turkish UAVs ... They will simply knock out all the Armenian equipment and start chasing small groups of infantry.

[Hypertension]

The camouflage of the Armenian army is strange. As if the pigeons flew by ... Is this camouflage effective in that area?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Hyperion

The camouflage of the Armenian army is strange. As if the pigeons flew by ... Is this camouflage effective in that area?

What do you want? Pashinyan got rid of those who once served in the Soviet Army, separated from Russia and got what he has, + full-scale interference with Turkey. Sorry for the Armenian people. Every time the Ottomans cut him out.
Py.Sy. Just don’t poke your nose into the fact that, allegedly, "the Armenians themselves have chosen this"

.

[Hypertension]

Quote: Piramidon

Py.Sy. Just don’t poke your nose into the fact that, allegedly, "the Armenians themselves have chosen this"

But what about "every nation deserves its own government"?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Hyperion

But what about "every nation deserves its own government"?

What do the Armenians do in your opinion? I have lived for many years in a multinational country called the USSR. I have had, and still have, both Georgians, and Armenians, and Ukrainians as close friends ... I cannot say anything bad about them and I will never wish them what you want them. You, apparently, judge all peoples by several of their representatives in your city markets. Yes, I myself would be happy to get rid of those Azerbaijani years that now control our central market (I have not gone there for a long time). But it was not all the people who got there.

[Hypertension]

Quote: Piramidon

What do the Armenians do in your opinion?

I am not saying that the Armenians deserve something. You have given a well-known statement and I have resulted in the answer.

Quote: Piramidon

I can't say anything bad about them and I will never wish them what you want them.

And what do I wish them bad? What line, what comment? No need to juggle.

Quote: Piramidon

You, apparently, judge all peoples by several of their representatives in your city markets.

And this is you writing to me? While you judge the Armenians by a separate group of Russophobes-Soros.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: Piramidon

Do you think the Armenians deserve it? I have lived for many years in a multinational country called the USSR. I have had, and still have, both Georgians, and Armenians, and Ukrainians as close friends ... I cannot say anything bad about them and I will never wish them what you want them. You, apparently, judge all peoples by several of their representatives in your city markets.

the leader of the people does not do what he wants by himself.
government is a huge apparatus in which the same people are involved.
officials, police, etc., etc.
therefore, yes, the policy of the state is the subconscious will of the people. even if he howls from the decisions of this state, that is, his sucking and sometimes masochistic desires.
we have such a psychology.

[Nehist]

Alas, this definition is not suitable for all countries.

[Interlocutor]

But what about "every nation deserves its own government"?

Here it is. "In the morning I smear a sandwich. In my head - but as a people ....."

[Skai]

rare times ... hmm ... hollows, so rare that everything will be included in the Red Book soon, like extinct species ... it's sad

[Olgovich]

The complete absence of anti-aircraft camouflage of equipment and positions could still be explained in the first days of the flared up conflict, but not in the case when battles and shelling have been going on for almost a week

What is well camouflaged has not been discovered by anyone.

And he's not on the video.

[Nehist]

One of those rare your comments when I agree with you !!!

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: Olgovich

he is not on video

For some reason, it seems that he is not even on the video.

[Livonetc]

"By the way, technique is not always dug in."
In an article previously published on VO,
the version was expressed that entrenching does not save from detection and defeat from shock drones.
And it was suggested that this is done with the aim of a faster redeployment of equipment.

[Olezhek]

In an article previously published on VO,
the version was expressed that entrenching does not save from detection and defeat from shock drones.
And it was suggested that this is done with the aim of a faster redeployment of equipment.

There is a painful search for truth ...

[KVU-NSVD]

Maybe they have strained with maskets? Well, what about? I can’t find any other explanation.

[donavi49]

They forgot to add the third video from the nightly selection to the article.

-3 MTLB it is unclear whether in the version of the counter-battery radar, or whether there is Zushka

[Yalquzaq]

you probably meant this video.

[donavi49]

No, it was just added. Of the three night videos posted at once on the MO channel, they did not add only 3 MTLB + Tank + bunker and a truck for 1-19 timing

[Redline]

Quote: Yalquzaq

you probably meant this video.

stand like idols Interestingly, they don't hear the sound of a projectile?

[Nehist]

Judging by the video there was no smell of disguise at all !!!

[Roman13579]

Hard .. Dozens of corpses in this one video alone ..

[uhu189]

Can't the counter-battery radar see drones?

[Fungus]

There the Azeris were burned in falsification of video frames of drone strikes. The same particles. I mean fake videos. I wonder why the Azerbaijanis are doing this.

[donavi49]

No, these are artifacts on the thermal channel of the optical station. There has been a heated debate about this since Syria. Watch the video here:

In all pictures in Teplak, fast, small +/- particles are the same. But in the optics there is no way to pick up the cries of fake-backfilm.

[Fungus]

In short, the same fakecomets as the Turks. They also faked a lot of videos. Yes, even the old ones were laid out.

[Nehist]

Dear you, try to shoot with NSP-2

[Nehist]

Typical illumination ... Shoot the same with AK with IR

[mag nit]

But the Armenian radio has solid victories.

[karpusha]

And how does disguise help? Here you need first-class camouflage from a thermal imager and normal vision. Such camouflage requires special materials and a lot of time. What is needed is not disguise but air defense equipment

[karpusha]

And how does disguise help? Here you need first-class camouflage from a thermal imager and normal vision. Such camouflage requires special materials and a lot of time. What is needed is not disguise but air defense equipment

[Disant]

And how does disguise help?

silently

[Alena-Baku]

they do not want to live not in Karabakh not in Armenia, look at how Armenia is building up a city and it will be clear. In Azerbaijan, the city is being built up as if on a dredge, and the buyers are the same gastrobayers from Russian bazaars, and the Armenians will not leave Russia anywhere.

[Asad]

Interesting to see the camouflaged position from the UAV!

[The leader of the Redskins]

I got my first "top five" in tactics in VU precisely for the fact that I well disguised the personally dug out rifle cell.
And here ... Donbass and Syria have not taught anything?

[donavi49]

Well, the Armenians are much stronger than the Syrians. The Syrians would already be on the sneakers en masse. There is sometimes a direct visualization of the memoirs of front-line soldiers from Drabkin's website:

[Horon]

Are Armenians fighting in Syria or Donbass?

[The leader of the Redskins]

Has the Internet been turned off in Armenia or does the General Staff of the Armenian Army ignore the experience of modern military conflicts?

[Horon]

Do not overestimate the usefulness of the Internet, more often than not, personal experience has a much greater influence on thoughts and actions than the most detailed article or video on the Internet, or a book. Hence, there is a dismissive attitude towards Internet experts as "couch"!

[The leader of the Redskins]

Well, here ... The personal experience of the army of Nagorno-Karabakh is on the face, however, as well as disregard for messages from the network about the increased danger from UAVs.

[Nehist]

At one time, I was very skeptical about the UAV ... But when they put the operator on the head with this very UAV, the attitude changed dramatically ... Not an adult bespectacled man named Alexey (by the way, the first RA UAVs were Israeli, yes, the Morphs bought them there) a lot what pokpzaz to me from the fact that UAVs at that time could with their limited capabilities. UAVs are not a panacea and a very vulnerable device, but if used correctly they will cover life

[yehat2]

I am also confused by some kind of complete blackout of air threats
think that there is a wasp and that's it, there will be no threat?
Well, at least they tried to use elements of the Vietnam War - to change positions at night, etc.

[Keyser soze]

I am also confused by some kind of complete blackout of air threats
think that there is a wasp and that's it, there will be no threat?

There is an option that half of this is a dummy, plus an old technique. And bomb on health ... I would do this if there is a lack of air defense.

[the finish]

According to the information, there is a lot of unnecessary trash (instead of plywood) specially exposed to take blows. There are positions well disguised. Of course, there are many accurate hits on equipment and manpower.

[uhu189]

Yes, it makes sense to change them - if the scouts constantly hang over their heads and see everything. On the march, and will be covered with even more serious consequences ...

[yehat2]

even the Russian Federation and the United States are not able to track movements well at night.
even when there is equipment, people operators get tired of looking.
For your interest, you might wonder how difficult it is for pilots of a turntable fully equipped for night combat.

[uhu189]

As far as I understand, the bulk of the blows that are given in the article at night were carried out (otherwise why shoot in IR). As you can see, there were no problems with identification and target designation.

[yehat2]

do you understand what a unit move is?
your logic contains only static goals day and night
And it is simply impossible to observe over a large area in the IR range -
it is necessary to conduct a narrow scan search, which is difficult and dangerous.
In addition, from an altitude of 7-8 km (there is a boundary of a safe altitude) such a search is already very difficult, especially in cloudy weather. In addition, there is also a relief, which also interferes.
therefore, sudden movements at night multiply the time for a possible air attack. I don't know how it is with the jungle, but I'm sure that most UAVs do not have thermal imagers.

[uhu189]

I do not want to argue, perhaps you are right about the thermal imagers, but you obviously cannot place troops in a bare field, and reserve positions, if they are equipped, I think, are also under observation, like the main ones.

[yehat2]

In Libya, tactics of action against drones and aviation on batteries of cubes have long been debugged in conditions of total enemy superiority.
just take and use.

[immobile2008]

And immediately a photo in the infrared spectrum. I wonder what the author of this opus would disguise with? Is there a disguise in this spectrum? It can bury it in the ground, but how to fight then?

[Interlocutor]

And immediately a photo in the infrared spectrum. I wonder what the author of this opus would disguise with? Is there a disguise in this spectrum? It can bury it in the ground, but how to fight then?

In this case, masking and duplicates .... Simply masking will not help.

[donavi49]

Yes, but very expensive. Even for all Swedes, effective measures with a tiled structure are overwhelming.


Only tissue systems that only lower the detection threshold are very expensive.

[yehat2]

you can instruct false IR targets
Well, you will find the right spot - and next to it there are 100 of the same pieces.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: imobile2008

how to fight then?

Maneuver.
The same pickups in Siri were not just appreciated for their charisma. It is the combination of reliable cover and quick exit / withdrawal from positions that gives a chance for life. Especially important when the enemy is in the air.

[immobile2008]

Quote: Cowbra

Figase! There is a S-300, there is no electronic warfare at all ... And in general,

Buy an industrial "multilock" to determine the frequencies of the "emitting means" of the UAV, bring everything transmitting on the air at similar frequencies and stupidly turn on the transmission when a signal appears on the multilock screen. The transmitters on the UAV are weak - you don't need to clog the signal a lot.

There are no frequencies for a long time. The signal is transmitted over the entire spectrum, when the frequency is clogged, it switches to another automatically. And there is also digital decoding, that is, when interference occurs, only the strobes of the main signal are taken into account.

[seregin-s1]

One thing is for sure, drones work efficiently. By the way, they are not in Russia.

[Vadim237]

There are no shock weapons, but they will appear in 4 years.

[iouris]

Was not, was not, was not, and why suddenly appear in 4 years?

[Alexey Z]

Like everyone else, they will buy in Israel and have their own.

[Vadim237]

"There wasn't, wasn't, wasn't." Everything is on trial - and you seem to be behind the times.

[fn34440]

When the Commander-in-Chief is a goof, everything ends in tears. Soros and the Armenian Soros did everything for the victory of Turkey.
Pashinyan for Armenia is similar to Gorbachev for the USSR and Yeltsin for Russia. Gravedigger.

[immobile2008]

Quote: fn34440

When the Commander-in-Chief is a goof, everything ends in tears. Soros and the Armenian Soros did everything for the victory of Turkey.

Take it easy the Armenian army is not much different from the Russian, the same tactics. Only fewer people and technology. If Azerbaijan fought with us, it would be the same, well, maybe we would have crushed it with numbers or with nuclear weapons, however, as always ...

[Fungus]

Type or what? The Armenian army differs little from the Russian one) Azerbaijan would not have lasted half a day with us ...

[Olezhek]

the Armenian army is not much different from the Russian, the same tactics

Personal opinion: Armenians will have higher morale and organization, resilience and motivation too
But to block the technical superiority of the enemy here and now is no longer possible
In a couple of days, the Armenian army may begin to experience serious problems
It may crumble
Air and fire superiority of the enemy is not a joke!

[Olezhek]

Personal opinion: Armenians will have higher morale and organization, resilience and motivation too

Compared to Azerbaijan, the EU
it is incorrect to compare with Russia

[SERGOL]

You don't need to flatter yourself.

[Boris ⁣ Shaver]

Quote: imobile2008

quantity <...> atomic weapons <...> as always ...

Yeah, we are always like that - first we crush with quantity, then we will certainly cover those who are crushed with atomic weapons, so that we are absolutely certain. So it was during the defense of Donbass (by the way, how is your area after nuclear strikes - still fonite?) - it was stupid for the number, in order to crush them, we sent whole football teams there, remember? So it was in Syria - for each fighter, a hundred of ours, and then they polished everything with a nuclear bomb.

[tlauicol]

Armenians need snow or fog. the clouds will sit on the mountains, it will be easier

[Alexfly]

Is there a disguise from modern detection tools? Most likely ineffective ... Arguments against?

[Incvizitor]

There is from a thermal imager, but there the price is the wildest to put all the sau on all the tanks and you will go broke it is easier to buy a lot of shells and shoot down this whole flock.

[Alena-Baku]

Armenians and many members of the forum wrote that in the first war, Armenians without weapons with the coalition represented by Azerbaijan, Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and mercenaries from Chechnya, etc. fought alone. club Karabakh in the league of Europe Armenians Armenians managed to complain that the place of Azerbaijani footballers was played by Turks.

[iouris]

Quote: "... the troops are operating in a time pressure mode, and it may be useless to engage in camouflage at a time when the enemy has probably managed to draw up maps of all the main positions." End of quote.
A strange conclusion. Another conclusion suggests itself: insufficient training of staffs and troops, failure to take into account the availability of fundamentally new means of armed struggle.

[Olezhek]

A strange conclusion. The conclusion suggests itself another: insufficient training of staffs and troops, failure to take into account the availability of fundamentally new means of armed struggle

But really - what would you do there?
In the place of the Armenians?
It's not even piston reconnaissance aircraft.
These are drones
Small and unobtrusive
There are many of them and it is not a pity to lose them
You can mask something somehow ... with nets
But when the mountains and technology to hell ... how do you hide it ??

[immobile2008]

Quote: Fungus

Type or what? The Armenian army differs little from the Russian one) Azerbaijan would not have lasted half a day with us ...

I did not write about the timing. I mean that the Armenians dug in better than we dug in and act as according to instructions, this is not always the case with us. That is, if we have the same amount of money and soldiers, the result will be worse.

[immobile2008]

Quote: Vadim237

There are no shock weapons, but they will appear in 4 years.

Why didn't you scratch before? Why I don’t see those who were supposed to itch in the red square?

[Elephant]

And that our military did not teach their partners in the CSTO anything? Why were the military exercises conducted?

[Olezhek]

So they are "partners", not allies.

[Dikson]

Here is your second pendel after Syria and Libya .. all sincere talk about the benefits and worthlessness of UAVs comes down to one thing - without them, modern military operations are impossible ... The number of devices, their price and specialization is the next question .. And we are funny for ten years We cannot accept airplanes from the circle of young aircraft modelers into service ... I do not think that our valiant armed forces would have shown themselves much more effective in positions in Karabakh .. Dullness is in everyone's blood, and the technical equipment of the Turks is still better in terms of Drones ...

[Krasnodar]

The RF Armed Forces have normal aviation, which Armenians practically do not have

[Dikson]

And what, you will accelerate the Su-30 semi-toy drones in the sky? spend rockets on them? UAVs have already occupied their niche on the battlefield .. Piloted attack aircraft and small, light toys are incomparable in price ... the same Wasp can probably shoot down a Su25 without any problems, aiming at prey on the ground .., but a low-flying small drone turned out to be problematic .. The same in the case of adjusting the artillery fire .. Do we have an air reconnaissance platoon with gunner drones assigned to each artillery battery? And the artillery can work directly and immediately on these coordinates? I doubt very much .. The fact that we will have "Hunter" is good .. But very, very expensive. And not at all for tactical tasks on the battlefield, apparently .. And look how much blood is drunk by homemade and essentially simple UAVs .. ATGM with wings ... and a motor from an aircraft model ... Cheap and very angry.

[Krasnodar]

The Israelis used combat helicopters in the fight against drones - not jet aircraft (there was an unsuccessful attempt to use the F-16).
What are we talking about - the result of a clash between the Russian army and an enemy such as Turkey, or the lack of drones in units?

[Dikson]

Helicopters versus Drones are probably good. but what about high-flying scouts .. Here analogs of WWII fighters would do ...

[Krasnodar]

Such are brought down by the Patriots
Russians - S-300

[cyborg]

UAVs will be suppressed by the electronic warfare system.

[chingachguc]

not so simple

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: Dikson

Will you accelerate the Su-30 semi-toy drones in the sky? spend rockets on them?

Bayraktar is not "half-toy". And it costs more than a rocket, so spending a rocket is even profitable.

[chingachguc]

But the Azeri have UAVs - it's no secret. They flew in 2016, and in July this year too. But no conclusions were drawn

[Old tanker]

Is it not destiny to install at least stupidly solid horizontal masks over the equipment? Under them you will no longer see the exact location of the equipment. And hitting "about there" is not exactly on target.

[Dikson]

Is there a mask for the thermal imager, a strong interference? )))

[Old26]

Quote: oleg123219307

And if you strongly offend the airfield network,

Iskander? Here are just "Iskander" they have one division (4 launchers). That is, they will be able to fire 8 missiles "at a time". What will one or two Iskander do with the airfield? And nothing significant. BAO will be able to patch up the strip in a very short time. But after the launch, the Iskander will have to leave at full speed. They will not have time to recharge, and the Azerbaijanis will be able to cover the launch area. In addition, everything will immediately fall into place. The use of NCR weapons that he does not have means only one thing. Armenia's participation in the database. After that, hopes that the CSTO will help ... can be shoved into .....

[Igor Litvin]

Quote: Old Tanker

The question is about the altitude of detection and destruction of the "Wasp", which is lower than the maximum flight altitude of the Bryoktarov.

It looks like the UAV is attacking from above, from a blind funnel

[Florian geyer]

They do not attack from anywhere, they are reconnaissance drones that provide environment

[hotrod]

No one was confused by the tanks that scatter in black blots and ... the skeleton of the tank does not remain. Are these layouts?

[core]

these are staged videos, or false targets. plywood.

[Florian geyer]

Again drones. Well, when will VO close this topic? Well it's just fu

[svoit]

Quote: alexmach

That is, quite a classic modern war. The same "low intensity" conflict.

one should not be confused with the other, the war in Kashmir is of low intensity, but the Arab-Israeli, or there in Yugoslavia, in the Falklands, American and Sino-Vietnamese, and now in Karabakh it is not a small, but quite a "classic modern war" ...

[certero]

It seems that some kind of fighter from the time of the Second world type la5 would be an excellent anti-drones air defense system.

[chingachguc]

Po-2 would be even better)) his speed is appropriate.

[chingachguc]

I don't understand one thing: is it really that difficult to make these pepelatsi? Orion was finished for 9 years, but what is there to look at? Barmaley on their knees collect such ... no need to reinvent the wheel. Take any !!! UAV, stuff it with TNT and take it into service. What's easier? Yes, it will not be an outstanding specimen, but at least something. While you are building the flying Terminator, the troops will get at least some experience, they will be tested in exercises and in local conflicts. And that is just ridiculous. ISIS has it, we don't.

[outsider]

- What does the disguise have to do with it? A normal fighter, or even an attack aircraft, can easily deal with any UAVs over its territory in the shortest possible time. And "Bayraktar'y" are not small at all ...

[u123uuu]

It is dismantled subject to the timely detection and availability and readiness of air and air force assets that, alas, are lame.

[u123uuu]

I just have no experience, some of them are generally volunteers and no warriors ... (fifteen minutes "Uraaa ..." and the dead, took place in the Second World War) The losses are all due to lack of preparation, low quality of coordination .. We also suffered losses in the first Chechen company ... Alas, there is only blood to buy already.

[Dikson]

Yes, at least some training will not save - complete air superiority ... ((((Any identified technique or a cluster of fighters is struck in a matter of minutes .. This is not at all a satellite picture, delayed by half a day ... which will first be viewed at the headquarters, and then they will be handed over to the troops .. and then the battery commander will be shown a square in which to beat ..

[Dimon71]

Didn't Armenia buy TOP M2MK from Russia?

[Radical]

Quote: Lesorub

Quote: loki565

All the problems from the fact that there is nothing to withstand the UAV, hence the majority of losses

No matter how unpleasant it may sound - but who prevented Armenia from modernizing and purchasing new models of air defense and REB - after all, it was worth thinking after the last exacerbation, but things are still there - and the losses from UAVs and kamikaze drones are increasing every day.

The question should be "shirsh" - the RF Armed Forces have enough military air defense assets to cover the forward positions of the troops from UAV attacks in the event of an armed conflict of the same permissible intensity as in Transcaucasia? How many Turkish and Israeli UAVs are in service with the same Ukraine?
We must think about this first of all.

[koramax81]

If you look closely, then the rocket flew directly into the last destroyed object, and not from above. Drones launch missiles along some interesting trajectory, or it was an ATGM (or a projectile).
Who knows - tell me, otherwise you get the impression that the drone is just an observation ..
And it’s also strange: there are no people anywhere - equipment stands as a target. Although it may seem so to me ...

[outsider]

Quote: u123uuu

It is dismantled subject to the timely detection and availability and readiness of air and air force assets that, alas, are lame.

- There are radars that these UAVs see well.

[outsider]

Quote: Dikson

Yes, at least some training will not save - complete air superiority ... ((((Any identified technique or a cluster of fighters is struck in a matter of minutes .. This is not at all a satellite picture, delayed by half a day ... which will first be viewed at the headquarters, and then they will be handed over to the troops .. and then the battery commander will be shown a square in which to beat ..

- The Armenians have no radar and no fighters ?! What air superiority are we talking about ?! There, the distance for a fighter flight is a matter of minutes!

[Lysik001]

We are with our Armenian brothers with all our hearts. And we will help them with everything we can! And don't expect our military guys! Do not! Nobody's coming! This is not our war! So hold on to the end!

[core]

Armenians can be blamed for everything, but not for stupidity. maybe they are showing us staged videos, maybe drones are processing false targets! If this is how Azerbaijan crumbles Armenians, then why does the flag of Azerbaijan not fly over Stepanakert?

[outsider]

Today (October 1), a Russian-made Armenian electronic warfare (EW) kit "Repellent-1 (Repełent-1)" became a victim of an Azerbaijani ammunition (drone-kamikaze).

"Repellent-1" is an anti-unmanned aerial vehicle system developed by the Moscow Scientific and Technical Center for Electronic Warfare (moskiewskie Centrum Naukowo-Techniczne Wojny Elektronicznej) to ignite and destroy small drones, especially from the so-called. swarms.

The system was created to neutralize drones from a distance of up to 30 kilometers day and night in any atmospheric conditions, the method is to disrupt radio control and jam the GPS satellite navigation sensor. The system is deployed on a MAZ-6317 truck to protect a large number of stationary military installations and units on the front line. The operator's cabin is protected from small arms bullets.

The system was put into operation at the end of 2016, the initial combat readiness was announced by the RF Armed Forces in 2017. Armenia received these stations as part of a 15-year US $ 100 million loan from Russia in 2017.

[Andrey sh]

Why aren't there at least air observers? In half of the cases, the UAV will be visible through binoculars. How to bring down his business is the second, NOW there are a lot of means of destruction.