Military Review

Ancient Rome: clothing for peace and clothing for war

159

From the pictures in the textbook for the 5th grade in the 60s of the twentieth century, we imagined the streets of ancient Roman cities and the appearance of their inhabitants


A woman should not have men's clothing.
Deuteronomy 22:5


Culture of clothes. We continue the series of articles about the clothing of ancient civilizations. Today we will "go" to Ancient Rome and see how things were with her there. Let's start by thinking about what our modern world owes to Rome? Roman law? Yes, absolutely! All European languages ​​based on Latin spoiled by barbarians? Of course! Plus to everything the basis of the foundations - the Christian faith! Achievements of military affairs: that is, the massive distribution of chain mail, plate armor, horse armor, throwing machines and the first military uniform! That is, the Romans gave a lot to European civilization - in fact, everything. But Roman culture itself largely emerged from the Etruscan culture. In any case, the clothing of the Etruscans, whose civilization reached its peak already in the IV century. BC, is the base for the Roman costume along with borrowings from the Greeks. So, they had a popular decoration for short raincoats - tebenna with a border in contrasting colors, and the Romans also began to use a border on their clothes. The Etruscans wore soft leather shoes with long toes. And the Romans wore the same, however, they shortened the "noses". But Roman fashion also had its own, purely Roman element of clothing, which the Romans were proud of and carefully guarded from foreign influences. The Roman toga is the main type of national dress of Ancient Rome, which developed independently of the influence of neighboring countries and was widely distributed by the II century. BC. The expression "the Romans are a people wearing togas" just testifies to the uniqueness of this type of clothing. The majestic toga is preserved in the Roman Empire as a ceremonial civilian costume, despite the strong influence of Greek culture, the costume of which was both more comfortable and easier for everyday use. Moreover, the Roman tunic and toga have many similarities with the Greek chiton and himation, but differ in constructive and artistic solutions.

Ancient Rome: clothing for peace and clothing for war

Two dancers. Etruscan master. About 480 BC Wall painting of the tomb of Triclinius, Tarquinia, Italy

Protecting their national clothes from the cultural influence of the fashion of neighboring countries, they simultaneously fought with luxury in clothing, since the Roman ideal was the image of a stern and courageous warrior with characteristic severity, simplicity and the ability to adapt to any conditions. An example of such protection is the dress law of 215 BC. the Roman tribune of Gaius Oppius, which was directed against the excessive luxury of women's clothing and has even been observed for 20 years. But women are women, and in 195, under the pressure of mass demonstrations of Roman feminist women (and there were such people in Rome!) This law was abolished, and the Romans were able to return to their unbridled extravagance.


Slaves and warriors. It's very simple, but from what era is it? Well, when did the Romans have such weapons? Never!

Fashion is always highly dependent on the fabric and the width of the loom. The latter made it possible for the Romans to weave wide fabrics, therefore, the clothes of the Romans for a long time were draped, which made it possible to emphasize the natural lines of the body and emphasize its beauty. Woolen and linen were used during the Republic period. During the era of the empire, many imported fabrics appeared, including Chinese silk. The clothes became more closed, with a luxurious finish, and the use of brocade made it possible to make their folds larger and the colors more picturesque, which later became characteristic of East Roman, Byzantine clothes.


Fortunately, frescoes depicting Roman clothes, statues, and beautiful mosaics have survived to us. And today we can see these mosaics! Villa del Casale is an ancient Roman villa built in the first quarter of the 5th century AD. e. and located about XNUMX km from the city of Piazza Armerina in Sicily. There are many such masterpieces!

It should be emphasized that the toga was the outer garment of a Roman man, but a tunic was used as a garment “under the bottom”, of which there were a great many in Rome. Let's turn to the Brockhaus and Efron encyclopedia for 1891. And that's what we learn from it. Of certain types of tunics were known:

1) tunica palmata, which served as the clothing of the Capitoline Jupiter, the triumphants who received this clothing from the Capitoline temple in case of a solemn entry into Rome and handed it back at the end of the celebration, as well as privileged persons from the Romans or foreigners (foreign kings and magistrates up to the emperor) during solemn ceremonies and festivals;
2) tunica recta, worn by brides on their wedding day and young men on the day of majority (March 17, on the holiday of Liberalia);
3) tunica laticlavia, which served as the clothing of senators and had a wide woven or embroidered purple stripe on the chest (claims), which ran vertically from the neck;
4) tunica angusticlavia, which served as a dress for horsemen and had a narrow stripe on the chest, of the same type as the above-mentioned latus claims;
5) tunica palliolata, or tunicopallium - women's clothing that replaced the table and had the cut of a Doric female chiton.



"Big Hunt" Villa del Casale

A kind of tunic was a table shirt that reached the feet and collobium - loose-fitting home clothes, belted at the hips. A tunic with narrow long sleeves (and the Romans knew how to cut and sew them) was called talaris... Tunics were their passport, since stripes were applied to them as decoration - clavuses, and they were different for different classes. For senators, this stripe was usually purple and wide, while for horsemen it was narrow.


One of the rooms of the villa


What a two-toothed spear, huh? Villa del Casale

As for the Roman toga, which was wrapped around the body over the tunic, it was a huge piece of fabric - about 6x2 m, cut out in the shape of an ellipse. The drapery of the toga gave an idea of ​​the basic qualities of a person: his education, culture and social status. The art of wearing a toga was studied by the Romans on a par with oratory, it was so "eloquent"! There was even a special Roman law that established fines for violating toga folds.


Now let's look not at the clothes of the ancients, but at modern Rome. Rather, on what remains of the ancient in modern Rome. And first of all, the Colosseum (in which in the summer there is always just a huge queue!) And the arches


And what kind of ancient arches are there in Rome ...

Toga drapery is very difficult and requires preparatory measures, including the use of special mannequins. The fabric was pre-impregnated with a fixing compound and left overnight in special fixatives. Lead weights were sewn into the lower edge of the toga so that they did not dangle, but dressed in a snow-white toga with a purple border (the imperial toga was completely purple!), The Roman patrician made an amazing impression on a half-dressed slave or poor plebeian.


View of the Forum

During the period of the empire, "barbaric" elements appeared in the Roman costume, first of all, the trousers of the "marriage" (which the Persians had long worn) and the Gallic cloak sagumthat become the clothing of legionnaires.


Once upon a time people in togas walked here ...

It is interesting that it was in Rome that the first elements of military uniforms appeared. This is a characteristic uniform shield coloration, practiced by both the Republican and the Imperial army. And the clothes, or rather, their colors. So, ordinary legionnaires wore a tunic of unbleached linen or wool, the "marines" (legionnaires who served on ships) had sky-blue tunics, but the centurions and praetorian guard of the emperors wore tunics bright red, visible from afar. So it was possible to recognize the chief in the crowd of fighters simply by the color of their tunics, not to mention the decorated armor and the transverse crests on the helmets characteristic only of centurions.


A lot of information about how the military clothing of the Romans looked in the first centuries of our era is given by the columns of the emperors Mark Trajan (here it is) and Marcus Aurelius


Another arch and columns

With the adoption of Christianity, the role of overhead garments such as dalmatic - a long-sleeved tunic that covers the body from neck to feet. But faith is faith, and no one forbids decorating the same dalmatics, and they are embroidered with variegated ornaments.


You can go down. But it's very hot down there. The stones are bursting with heat!


Surprisingly, the famous Roman she-wolf turns out to be far from monumental!

In Rome, there was also a strict division of clothing for men and women, but it was the Romans who became famous for the invention of women's underwear, which neither Egyptians nor Greek women wore in a complete, so to speak, “top and bottom” set. Since small breasts were considered ideal, special tight bandages were used - fasciasin addition, soft leather bandages were used - mamillare (they were worn on a naked body, including gymnasts and acrobats) and stropium, which was worn over the lower tunic, but under the top. Over the tunics, Roman women wore a Greek cloak pallu with a fastener on the shoulder, it also served as a headdress, since the edge of it could be thrown over the head. The colors of the palla were very diverse: purple, lilac, pink, blue, yellow, ocher ...


"Girls in Bikinis" from The Chamber of Ten Girls. Another Roman mosaic of the same Villa del Casale

The shoes were very basic. The red leather shoes of the nobility were called mulleous and was a sandal of woven straps, sometimes with a heel, but usually open toes. Sozzi, soft leather slippers, usually worn at home. Calighe ("Shoes") were legionnaires' footwear and were thick leather soles, lined with nails, attached to the leg, again with the help of many leather straps that went to the ankle, and even to the knees. Emperor Guy Caligula just got his nickname Slipper because he wore soldiers' sandals as a child.


“Come on, the sun, the spray is brighter, burn with golden rays ...” What “sports girls”, however!

The face of a man in Rome was shaved, at least in the era of the Republic. Shaved their face, judging by the sculptures, and Julius Caesar, and Octavian Augustus, and Flavius ​​Vespasian, and Mark Trajan. But the emperor Hadrian wore a small beard with a mustache, and it was he who introduced the fashion for beards and mustaches in the empire.


The quality of the work is amazing

Blond golden hair, similar to that of the Germans, as well as metallic hair, have always been in fashion. A variety of methods have been used to lighten hair, from applying ash mixed with goat's milk to lightening it in the sun.


And the Romans and Romans also loved jewelry!

Lead combs were also used, so that a Roman or a Roman, combing her hair, still dyed her hair at the same time. And, of course, decorations were used. Signet rings, rings, tiaras, gems and cameos, earrings and all kinds of bracelets. Ah, what only the ancient Romans did not wear then! Especially in the last centuries of the empire, when the Romans rejected all ideas about the harsh life and completely indulged in idle luxury and languid bliss!


But from this bus station we are leaving Rome today. The question is expected: so this is St. Peter's Cathedral, what is the bus station? But he is exactly here and is! A huge, simply monstrous bus station is located just under this square!
Author:
Articles from this series:
Interesting secrets of the kimono
Clothes of the ancient Jews: everything according to religious canons
Clothing of the northern "barbarians"
Bull skin and wooden slippers: clothes of hunters and warriors of the Stone Age
Ancient Egypt: clothing of the pharaohs, warriors, peasants
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  1. Korsar4
    Korsar4 7 October 2020 06: 40
    +6
    Lead weights in a toga - I wonder

    Probably, the habit of wearing a toga pretty much formed the character.
    1. Alex013
      Alex013 7 October 2020 08: 23
      +7
      Yes, the Romans did not use lead everywhere and the consequences of this use were negative ... Thank you Vyacheslav Olegovich for another interesting article from this cycle.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 7 October 2020 08: 34
        +5
        There were the same associations.
      2. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 7 October 2020 15: 16
        +6
        If you are talking about "lead plumbing", then this is a city bike: they were ceramic, and lead was poured over the joint. There was practically no direct contact between water and lead.
        By the way, this practice was widely abandoned in the 19th century. Closer to XX.
        If you are talking about lead dishes, then its mass distribution is the Middle Ages and Europe.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 7 October 2020 15: 38
          +4
          Therefore, he did not voice it - without really checking it.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 7 October 2020 19: 24
          +2
          By the way, this practice was widely abandoned in the 19th century.
          They didn't refuse. In the USSR, until the end of the 60s, pipe connections were "minted" with lead, however, only fan-made.
          1. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 7 October 2020 20: 28
            +2
            I believe).
            Praise be to the Almighty, Soviet pipes have not yet come across to me under the bayonet, and I hope they never will.
            But the 19th century - if they were wrong ...).
          2. Yura
            Yura 7 October 2020 23: 32
            +2
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            In the USSR, until the end of the 60s, pipe connections were "minted" with lead, however, only fan-made.

            At first, at least three turns of the bobbin were struck, to such an extent that the coin bounced off it as if from a solid object, and after that it was fixed with a lead strip, also with the help of a stamp. Often, instead of lead, they used semi-dry cement, even less than semi-dry, which, again, was pressed by embossing to a state of almost stone.
          3. Fat
            Fat 9 October 2020 20: 23
            0
            It's not true that our services refused to mince with lead in the forties, well, like because of poverty. And in real life.
            ALL chopiks are wooden.
            Do not trust? Go to the leak and you will understand
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 9 October 2020 20: 35
              +1
              Come to St. Petersburg, I'll show you the lead minting of the late sixties.
              1. Fat
                Fat 9 October 2020 21: 31
                +1
                It's bad that I can't go to the View - to come.
                Send photos. But, I don’t take a word for it in minting with lead. Forgive me, Father
            2. Fat
              Fat 9 October 2020 21: 24
              0
              But cars., This business was literally filled with solder based on not good lead.
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 7 October 2020 09: 31
      -8
      Since small breasts were considered an ideal, special tight bandages were used - faskii,


      someone blurted out that this is the ideal for a woman, but the caliber is happy to try.
      Not a single woman, if she has more than 2 size, will not tighten her breasts and thus is in society. In the history of women's clothing there were corsets, so this is only for a few hours and for special occasions, but to tighten her breasts, well, my wife ask how she would feel if she got it off. As usual, damn it.
      I looked at several of these Etruscan and Roman mosaics - images, as at that time they did not want to wear hats, just like now. But all kinds of hats in the Italian climate are very necessary, because the sun. Hats were also worn in the 20th century, but they, as it suddenly ended, seias hats not only do not wear in the summer, but even in winter they do not want.
      1. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 7 October 2020 15: 19
        +6
        1. It's a matter of habit that a corset, that a tightening on the chest.
        2. Have you ever wondered why hair was curled in antiquity? Everything, from small to large.
        Uh-huh, exactly for the same reason that blacks in central Africa are completely in a small curl. Less chances of catching a heat engine.
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 7 October 2020 16: 35
          -4
          Quote: AllBiBek
          Ever wondered why hair was curled in antiquity? Everything, from small to large.

          firstly, there is someone who has curls curling without any curl
          -curls curly, curls curly, curls curly
          -u b ... dey
          -why don't they curl
          -the decent people?
          and secondly, can it be easier to put on a hat than to constantly curl?
          1. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 7 October 2020 16: 55
            +4
            1. This proverb has Roman roots, you are absolutely right.
            2. This is the Mediterranean, where almost everyone has slightly curly hair. Curled harder with a bunch of goals, one of them being protection from the Sun.
            3. Men also rubbed the body with olive oil, constantly. Hotch, could you wear knitted wool underwear, what do you think?
            4. A headdress is a sign of a barbarian.
            You could just as well recommend a biker jacket with shitty guys in the 90s, they are more practical than sportswear all year round. And an earring in the right ear, for beauty.
            The effect would be the same.
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 7 October 2020 17: 10
              -6
              Quote: AllBiBek
              ... A headdress is a sign of a barbarian.

              Where did you get it, did you come up with it yourself?
              1. AllBiBek
                AllBiBek 7 October 2020 17: 25
                +5
                These are the clothes of antiquity in the VID format (Auxiliary Historical Disciplines) and the fashion of ancient Rome in the SID format (Special Historical Disciplines) for the third year.
                A headdress is a sign of a peasant, barbarian, or slave.
                But you can also indulge in the question yourself and look for hats on Roman statues and mosaics.
                1. Sergey Sfiedu
                  Sergey Sfiedu 7 October 2020 22: 43
                  +1
                  I do not know about the Romans, the Greeks wore hats. And caps.
                  1. AllBiBek
                    AllBiBek 7 October 2020 23: 01
                    0
                    They were called piluses and petatos.
                    Travel hat and hat for the field and theater.
                    But neither this nor this is an everyday element of clothing, they are tailored to specific situations.
                    It's like a tie now: it is either an element of an everyday work suit, or an element of it in a ceremonial version.
                    But to wear a tie to go to the market or to a pub is nonsense and bad manners.
            2. Bar1
              Bar1 7 October 2020 17: 15
              -5
              Quote: AllBiBek
              And an earring in the right ear, for beauty.

              for the Cossacks, an earring in the ear is a sign of one son in the family, they took care of this in the Cossack army.
              1. AllBiBek
                AllBiBek 7 October 2020 17: 27
                +4
                Sit down, deuce on the question.
                In the left, there are brothers and sisters, in the right, there are only sisters, in both, the only child in the family.
                And all would be fine, only this is the Cossack new-edge from the 90s, launched en masse from the question in C? G? K? in the mid-90s. No documentary evidence of this nonsense has been found.
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 7 October 2020 17: 31
                  -4
                  and the nose ring is not one child in the family? Are you one of those who declares unfounded?
                2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 October 2020 05: 08
                  0
                  Quote: AllBiBek
                  And all would be fine, only this is the Cossack new-edge from the 90s, launched en masse from the question in C? G? K? in the mid-90s. No documentary evidence of this nonsense has been found.

                  However, like the sailors, "the sea wolf who saw Cape Horn from the ship must wear an earring in his ear" !!! laughing
              2. AllBiBek
                AllBiBek 7 October 2020 17: 31
                +4
                But about Rome, such sources have survived, there at one time they fought so well against the fashion of noble young men wearing earrings just on this principle.
            3. Engineer
              Engineer 7 October 2020 18: 13
              +3
              4. A headdress is a sign of a barbarian.

              Another priest (apex in the Flamines) and a judge
          2. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 7 October 2020 18: 32
            +4
            Quote: Bar1
            -why don't they curl
            -the decent people?

            Because at (these same)
            There is money for the curlers.
            And "decent people"
            Spend money on (these very).
            laughing
            In your opinion, it turns out that if the hair is curly so immediately and this is ... a bad person? laughing
          3. Fat
            Fat 9 October 2020 20: 33
            0
            Come on ... Reminded Curls curl Curls curl at B-nd why do not they curl at decent people? Because B-d has money for curlers ... And decent people spend money ... Well .. There ..!
      2. Storm Uesugi
        Storm Uesugi 25 October 2020 05: 03
        0
        the climate for the campaign was different? !!!!. for without a hat you will get a sunstroke in the south, and how they were all so white-skinned.
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 7 October 2020 07: 06
    +6
    What a jewelry mosaic ...
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. You continue to delight us.
    1. kalibr
      7 October 2020 11: 31
      +9
      When I saw such a mosaic live for the first time, and it was in Larnaca, Cyprus, I was amazed by two things - the inconspicuousness of the color (I always thought that the mosaic should be bright, like mine in Penza, ha ha!), The thoroughness of the work and simplicity of drawing. That is, nothing special, but the work is jewelry ... Beauty is discreet. It was a certain culture that was needed to rejoice in this.
      1. AllBiBek
        AllBiBek 7 October 2020 15: 35
        +9
        It is she in the open air and discreet in bright light.
        In the light of torches, torches, or candles or oil lamps - very catchy.
        Reconstruction of the mosaic is still carried out in very weak light, preferably not electric.
        Mosaics of the subways of Moscow and Leningrad, for example, were laid out in the light of kerosene lamps at the minimum salary.
        1. kalibr
          7 October 2020 17: 43
          +5
          Quote: AllBiBek
          Mosaics of the subways of Moscow and Leningrad, for example, were laid out in the light of kerosene lamps at the minimum salary.

          Amazing!
          1. Fat
            Fat 9 October 2020 20: 39
            0
            Vyacheslav Olegovich! Yes nifiga not surprising. You know. No matter how correct.
        2. ycuce234-san
          ycuce234-san 7 October 2020 23: 37
          0
          Mosaics of the subways of Moscow and Leningrad, for example, were laid out in the light of kerosene lamps at the minimum salary.

          Apparently, it's time to change the technology for modern art artifacts for modern lighting. Now LED sources appear close to the solar spectrum, and if you use the old beauty technology, no one will be able to evaluate them, since they were illuminated with kerosene stoves only in extreme situations ...
          You can make them more advanced, using, for example, holography.
          For old pieces of art, you will have to create special lighting.
          1. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 7 October 2020 23: 55
            +1
            On remakes they are taken into account.
            For example, when they copy the rock for the turia (and they have not been allowed to enter the halls with the original for a long time) - for this moment, colors are selected in such a way that the shade is preserved in the light of diodes.
            And when working with sources in the same Kapova - from the light only candles have been allowed since recently, and tourists are not allowed to approach them at all.
            On the whole, it has been five years since the tendency towards "bloodless archeology" has taken shape, in spite of the "barbaric" one.
            True, it consists in the fact that the objects restored in the course of the study are preserved with an inert gas inside a special structure on top, then specialists for one or another material (leather-bone-wood) come in at strictly defined intervals, preserve the material with special liquids, then a little more layer is removed, and - all over again. Speed ​​- you know, not fast.
            Therefore, a significant part of even well-known monuments is stupidly georadar of several types, in some cases, a hole-pit machine is launched in the safest place, and then the obtained core is already disassembled. And - they leave until better times, when archeology will have nothing to lose in the process.
            At the current pace and at an optimistic one - for half a century somewhere. It's minimum.
            1. ycuce234-san
              ycuce234-san 8 October 2020 00: 27
              0
              And when working with sources in the same Kapova - from the light only candles have been allowed since recently, and tourists are not allowed to approach them at all.


              Now technologies do not stand still and it is more logical to give such objects in good quality to watch on the Internet in a virtual reality helmet. This will increase audience reach a million times without increasing physical traffic. It is possible, by the way, to show them exactly as they look in the light of an authentic epoch-era smoke lamp, church candle, sunbeam, etc.
              1. AllBiBek
                AllBiBek 8 October 2020 00: 45
                +1
                And, so full of it, all the time.
                But - only in relation to large museums.
                In this regard, I am very pleased with the current policy in this area in the Russian Federation; Particularly valuable exhibits have not been taken to museums in cities with a million inhabitants for 10 years, but, on the contrary, are left in their places, and under them the restoration and development of regional museums is underway. Mostly - in small towns, where tourism and infrastructure are developed for it.
                Photos of such exhibits are a dime a dozen, but to see them live - it's easier to come in a group and along the route, or on your own, and at the same time inspect and other things that are in the town.
                As a rule, the cost of insuring a key artifact in a museum in a provincial town that is highly touristy exceeds that town's annual budget.

                And rightly so, I will.
          2. Fat
            Fat 9 October 2020 20: 42
            0
            Simply no.
            It is not necessary Everything should and should be as planned.
            Have you ever been to Rostov? In the underground?
  3. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 October 2020 07: 30
    +7
    The fabric was pre-impregnated with a fixing compound
    Probably starch?
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 7 October 2020 08: 36
      +4
      And the matrons reprimanded the slaves for the poorly starched toga for the husband?
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 7 October 2020 09: 34
        +6
        pronounced
        Flogged, in the stable.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 7 October 2020 11: 18
          +6
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          pronounced
          Flogged, in the stable.

          The husband flogged the slaves. At the stable.
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 7 October 2020 16: 06
          +2
          And if there was no stable, then how? belay
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 7 October 2020 17: 50
            +3
            In the chicken coop
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 7 October 2020 18: 22
              +2
              What an entertainer, you really are! laughing
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 7 October 2020 20: 06
                +2
                It is possible with his wife in the bedroom)).
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 October 2020 20: 25
                  +1
                  And replace chickens with budgerigars!
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 7 October 2020 20: 53
                    +2
                    Little horses for cats ... laughing
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 7 October 2020 21: 02
                      +5
                      ICE for an electric scooter, beef for asparagus, Samantha Smith for Greta Thunberg ...
                      Ugh, damn it, now I'm going to cry crying
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 7 October 2020 22: 01
                        +1
                        Cherry on Katya Alycheva, Dorian Gray on Sasha Gray
        3. Fat
          Fat 9 October 2020 20: 46
          0
          I laugh at nimaga. Golimaya not koment capable info
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 7 October 2020 16: 31
        +3
        I may not understand something in this life, but where did the Romans get potatoes? Either they learned to make starch from tomatoes, or they themselves discovered America "long before and regardless."
        And I always thought that potatoes in Europe were the work of this guy:
        1. AllXVahhaB
          AllXVahhaB 7 October 2020 16: 39
          +3
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Or they learned how to make starch from tomatoes

          So, tomatoes come from the same place as potatoes ...
        2. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 7 October 2020 16: 56
          +4
          Why potatoes?
          The roots of water lilies were boiled for starch in bulk, there were enough of them.
        3. Undecim
          Undecim 7 October 2020 16: 57
          +6
          The Romans got starch from wheat. This method was described by Pliny.
        4. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 7 October 2020 16: 57
          +6
          Uncle Kostya, have you heard anything about wheat starch?
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 7 October 2020 17: 00
            +4
            Otkudova, here in Ryazan we do not read Pliniev, not togos, when in the vicinity warehouses with shells are bursting. wassat
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 October 2020 17: 19
              +5
              He died of curiosity. But he managed to write 38 volumes of natural history before that.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 7 October 2020 19: 47
                +2
                "Elder Pliny on a crumbling bench" (C)
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 7 October 2020 19: 19
              +1
              For that you have "mushrooms with eyes"! laughing
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 7 October 2020 19: 23
                +1
                The belt is also tied in a special way.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 October 2020 19: 32
                  +1
                  Oh, Ryazan samurai "obi" tie up in a special way? laughing
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 7 October 2020 21: 28
                    +3
                    Laugh, laugh ... "With a bare heel on a checker." (C)
              2. Catfish
                Catfish 7 October 2020 19: 26
                +3
                Yeah, purely local variety. laughing
        5. Liam
          Liam 7 October 2020 16: 57
          +2
          Quote: Sea Cat
          I may not understand something in this life, but where did the Romans get potatoes? Or they learned how to make starch from tomatoes

          The Romans would be very surprised if they knew from you that they grow tomatoes.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 7 October 2020 17: 51
            +3
            No, from corn
            1. Liam
              Liam 7 October 2020 17: 56
              +2
              And ate pineapples
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 7 October 2020 18: 06
                +3
                What for? Papaya
        6. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 8 October 2020 00: 15
          +2
          It’s funny for you, but one prokhvesor (now deceased, and before that deprived of all his good degrees except for the academician of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences) openly claimed that through the Tatars.
          For the Bering Strait is not because Vitus Bering, but because American Tatars lived through it from the Eurasian Tatars, and they threw potatoes into the water during some kind of ceremony, and as a result, it sailed to Sakhalin. And the Tatars' potatoes are "baryange". And that's exactly why.
          Laughter laughter, and we taught this, and passed the exams.
          However, the same Chudinov also lectured at universities, in St. Petersburg, and even state ones, and there even worse than us - prokhvessor Miftakhov.
        7. Fat
          Fat 9 October 2020 20: 51
          0
          Starch is not only obtained from potatoes.
          And they knew him even in the Ancient Kingdom of Egypt.
          Half of the wheat is starch.
          Do not believe on wheat bread sprinkle with iodine.
    2. kalibr
      7 October 2020 10: 52
      +3
      As you yourself understand, Anton, where I copied it, exactly this was written, and I did not dare to change something, because the Romans were great entertainers and could use not only starch, that's the thing.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 7 October 2020 11: 05
        +3
        Simply, the first thing that came to mind.
        1. kalibr
          7 October 2020 11: 26
          +3
          Because for the very first thing we are faced with. But in Rome ... anything could have happened, including the use of fish glue.
          1. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 7 October 2020 15: 28
            +2
            They did not know him.
            Fish glue came into use with them already in the first centuries of our era, because it turned out to be an ideal fill for icons. And this is Byzantium, iconoclasts, icon-worshipers, and so on.
            They cooked glue mainly from hooves. And the fabrics were glued with evaporated linseed oil.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 7 October 2020 18: 50
              +2
              evaporated linseed oil.
              That is, practically drying oil. Also an option, only it dries for a long time. Suitable for "lorica segmental", but not for toga
              1. AllBiBek
                AllBiBek 7 October 2020 19: 04
                +2
                Yes, sort of like they glued linothorax, and leather armor - a little later.
                Ungulate is more for wood, shields and other multilayer.
                Although, I did not delve into this issue specially. The same flour glue was used for carpentry purposes even during the time of Sumer.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 October 2020 19: 16
                  +2
                  By the way, my compliments, Anatoly! hi It is always interesting to communicate with you!
                  The other day, I do not remember under what material you dropped the phrase "this is not my specialization." Could you clarify the latter? I'm really interested in what questions I can turn to you as an expert.
                  1. AllBiBek
                    AllBiBek 7 October 2020 20: 26
                    +4
                    But where is the expert ...
                    But - the Paleolithic in general, and the Upper Paleolithic of the Russian Plain - in particular. More Mesolithic and Neolithic in general, and in them - Bronze with all its conventions.
                    And so, in my institute specialty - I have archeology of Kama Bulgaria and the Golden Horde region of the Middle Volga region.
      2. Fat
        Fat 9 October 2020 20: 54
        0
        Vyacheslav Olegovich.
        And don't worry about starch.
        This business is older than our ideas
    3. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 7 October 2020 15: 21
      +3
      Lime, if I remember correctly.
      More precisely, seared shells, mostly oysters.
      When you try to wrap it around the body, a starched toga will stupidly break at the folds, not immediately, so soon.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 7 October 2020 19: 02
        +1
        Well, as it were, burnt lime, in itself, is a material prone to cracking ...
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 7 October 2020 20: 23
          +2
          The solution is in water.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 7 October 2020 20: 33
            +1
            True, and when dry, it cracks.
            1. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 7 October 2020 21: 31
              +1
              As far as I can tell, it was used for the toga as a styling gel in the case of hair. Soaked, and folded.
              The whole toga was hardly soaked, especially in a solution of anything that could damage the border or affect its brightness.
              The purple border isn't cheap.
            2. ycuce234-san
              ycuce234-san 8 October 2020 00: 04
              +2
              True, and when dry, it cracks.

              The starch solution is almost always low in concentration.
              The solution is first prepared at the rate of 1 teaspoon of starch and 1 liter of water and then poured into a 10-liter basin. The folds could additionally be slightly smeared with concentrate with a painter's brush.
              Gelatin. One tablespoon of gelatin per basin. It was gelatin that the Romans mined by digesting hooves, skins, sharks and other things.
              Modern demobels and officers should take note of silicate and PVA adhesives. Combine glue and warm water in a 1: 1 ratio (hard method) or 1: 2 (soft method). Dark things cannot be sewn, otherwise they will be painted. Silicate glue: dilute 5 teaspoon of glue in 1 liters of water.
      2. Fat
        Fat 9 October 2020 21: 08
        0
        I do not know. But I slept on a bang of starched sheets and they did not break linen. Compatibility?
  4. Olgovich
    Olgovich 7 October 2020 09: 13
    0
    Since small breasts were considered ideal, special tight bandages were used - Faskii


    Do not understand?! belay request
    1. kalibr
      7 October 2020 10: 54
      +4
      Well, they pulled it down! What's incomprehensible? I laid out three, THREE frescoes on purpose so that everything could be seen.
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 7 October 2020 11: 30
        +2
        What is there to consider if everything is pulled together? laughing
        1. kalibr
          7 October 2020 11: 55
          +3
          Quote: HanTengri
          What is there to consider if everything is pulled together?

          Volume!
        2. Korsar4
          Korsar4 7 October 2020 15: 41
          +3
          Not our traditions.

          "Each province has its own scale" (c).
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 7 October 2020 19: 54
            +3
            "Pret, like a tank,
            That "up" is her, that "down"!
            Well, I think an American
            "Mrs" or maybe "miss" !!!
            And I make way
            I take off my hat: "Madam!"
            And she says: "Don't touch !!!
            And how on the "face" I will give !!! "(FROM)
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 October 2020 20: 01
              +3
              “I, my brothers, do not like women who are wearing hats” (c).
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 7 October 2020 20: 22
                +3
                "Yvette, Lisette, Musetta, Jeanette, Georgette
                Colette, Pauletta, Clorette, Floretta, Marietta "(C)
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 7 October 2020 21: 27
                  +2
                  "Buy me a hat with a veil" (c).
              2. Hantengri
                Hantengri 7 October 2020 21: 57
                +2
                Quote: Korsar4
                “I, my brothers, do not like women who are wearing hats” (c).

                Right! "Whoever whistled his hat, he kicked his aunt!" (C)
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 7 October 2020 22: 04
                  +2
                  Audrey Hepburn to remember - to cheer up.
          2. Fat
            Fat 9 October 2020 21: 16
            +1
            Right! There is even a picture from the Itinerants, I do not remember it, it seems, Myasoedov, Venus, the girl in the bath is trying to wash her hair. Judging by the plot ... Such Cosmas cannot be washed ...
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 9 October 2020 21: 35
              +1
              Kustodiev. "Russian Venus". So?
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 9 October 2020 22: 37
                +1
                I think so.
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 10 October 2020 07: 06
                  +1
                  In Nizhny Novgorod, it turned out to go to the museum. True, already about 20 years ago.
        3. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 7 October 2020 19: 05
          +4
          How so what?
          Eyes!
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 7 October 2020 13: 14
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        Well, they pulled it down! What's incomprehensible?

        AND WHERE do I have about the "screed"?

        I do not understand an extremely strange IDEAL!
        1. kalibr
          7 October 2020 13: 39
          +4
          Who can understand the ideals of the ancients? Remember Venus without arms? Looking at her, the Romans decided - and we must be so!
          1. AllBiBek
            AllBiBek 7 October 2020 15: 30
            +4
            Anyone who plunges into the era according to all the rules. Recon, medievalists, historical psychologists. A bunch of subcontractors.
        2. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 7 October 2020 20: 22
          +2
          Quote: Olgovich
          I do not understand an extremely strange IDEAL!

          What's so special about that? A historian told us about this ideal at school. Anything better than, for example, in Burma, where women stretch their necks with copper hoops. Almost up to a meter.
      3. Liam
        Liam 7 October 2020 16: 13
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        Well, they pulled it down! What's incomprehensible? I laid out three, THREE frescoes on purpose so that everything could be seen.

        There was no fashion for small breasts. It's just that the frescoes that you said are engaged in sports. And when playing sports, women still use such technical-design "tricks". Purely out of practicality.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 7 October 2020 19: 07
          +2
          Estessno, sportswomen need a bra, otherwise they dangle in different directions and interfere with setting records.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 7 October 2020 19: 56
          +5
          "Only balls should jump!" (C)?
          1. Liam
            Liam 7 October 2020 20: 11
            +3
            Something like that)
            Phrases ... in ancient Rome it was fashionable this or that ... they are to make life easier for those who write and read in fact. Rome is 1000 years plus / minus. For a thousand years of fashion, manners and customs have changed a thousand times. And a fresco or there the chronicle of some historian described a specific situation for that specific period was just
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 7 October 2020 20: 30
              +2
              With this, I agree
        3. Sergey Sfiedu
          Sergey Sfiedu 7 October 2020 22: 53
          +2
          "There was no fashion for small breasts" - well, it is common knowledge that Athenians wore a bandage on their breasts, as neat breasts were in fashion. The Spartans wore a bandage under their breasts. The WICI says that Roman women could have both types of bandages.
    2. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 7 October 2020 15: 22
      +4
      And what is there to understand?
      Young as they could, small breasts are a sign of youth.
  5. Engineer
    Engineer 7 October 2020 11: 31
    +6
    So, ordinary legionnaires wore a tunic of unbleached linen or wool, the "marines" (legionnaires who served on ships) had sky-blue tunics, while the centurions and praetorian guard of the emperors wore tunics bright red, visible from afar. So it was possible to recognize the chief in the crowd of fighters simply by the color of their tunics, not to mention the decorated armor and the transverse crests on the helmets characteristic only of centurions.

    Additionally. The ceremonial tunics worn by the warriors during triumphs were pure white.

    I didn't like the article very much, first of all because the mod is submitted statically. Little is said about the influence of the barbarians. There is no periodization, at least minimal, for a popular article.
    Tell about jewelry, but not a word about bulls ??
    Vyacheslav, I beg your pardon, but you kind of cheated. The article is very short and the topic is not covered. Girls in bikinis don't save her)
    1. kalibr
      7 October 2020 12: 00
      +4
      Quote: Engineer
      Vyacheslav, I beg your pardon, but you kind of cheated. The article is very short and the topic is not covered.

      It may well be that you are right here, but there is one "but" here, say - "a small mitigating circumstance." Information is both a lot and a little. And the text of more than 10000 characters is poorly read. In 14000 it is not readable at all. And how to cram into a small text about fabric, and about shoes, and about hairstyles, and describe togas in detail? In addition to this article, there will be material about the Roman soldiers from the column of Marcus Aurelius, but no more.
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 7 October 2020 12: 17
        +4
        You see, articles of 10 thousand characters look like a slightly extended Yandex Zen. Be it wrong. Typical articles on VO are still larger.
        In addition to this article, there will be material about the Roman soldiers from the column of Marcus Aurelius, but no more.

        Why not Trajan? Or both?)
        And how to cram into a small text about fabric, and about shoes, and about hairstyles, and describe togas in detail?

        For a small paragraph, and about that, and another, and the third. To tell, for example, about the fact that professional women in Rome wore blond wigs, one sentence is enough.
        And the ruins of the Palantine look superfluous.
        1. kalibr
          7 October 2020 13: 36
          +3
          Because there were already several of my materials about Trajan's column. But I will surprise you - the standard volume of journalistic material for an online site is 8000 characters. The fact that they are more on VO is the initiative of the authors. In Zen, the format is 5000.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 7 October 2020 17: 29
          +3
          Uh ... Isn't this the late Middle Ages fashion in Italian cities, and not wigs, but the highlighting of hair with the sun and cow urine?
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 7 October 2020 18: 05
            +3
            This is a fairly well-known point, casually mentioned by many authors.
            From what came to mind
            This prodigal Augusta fled from her sleeping husband;
            Black hair hiding under a blond wig,
            In a warm lupanar, hung with shabby rags,
            1. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 7 October 2020 18: 59
              +2
              Juvenal wrote a century and a half after the death of Messalina, and the peculiarity of the poems of that era - they wrote in the realities of their time.
              Trajan's times, the fashion for German blonde hair, and in general for everything German.
              But it did not begin under Claudius, there they interacted even more with the Celts at the everyday level.
  6. Undecim
    Undecim 7 October 2020 11: 58
    +3
    All European languages ​​based on Latin tainted by barbarians? Of course!
    Here European linguists would be surprised at such a "discovery", including novelists.
    Of the European languages ​​known to a wide audience, genealogically "spoiled Latin" includes Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, Moldavian. The rest, such as Venetian or Friulian, are known, besides their carriers, only to specialists. In total, there are almost three hundred languages ​​in use in Europe.
    1. kalibr
      7 October 2020 13: 33
      +1
      Quote: Undecim
      Of the European languages ​​known to a wide audience, genealogically "spoiled Latin" includes Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, Moldavian.

      That is, the main ones. And since the main ones, and even known to a wide audience - then EVERYTHING! And let a narrow audience read special literature.
      1. Operator
        Operator 7 October 2020 13: 52
        0
        Narrow audience - Friuls and Romans, obviously laughing
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 7 October 2020 16: 27
        0
        And since the main ones, and even known to a wide audience - then EVERYTHING!
        But what about German, English? Also in the specialized literature?
    2. Liam
      Liam 7 October 2020 16: 11
      +1
      From the principle.
      Quote: Undecim
      Romanian, Moldavian

      This is one language
      Quote: Undecim
      Venetian or Friulian

      These are not languages, but dialects. There are dozens if not hundreds of them in Italy. Modern Italian as a base has the Tuscan dialect. Of all the rest, Napolitan is closer to an independent language.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 7 October 2020 16: 44
        +2
        These are not languages ​​but dialects
        Michele Loporcaro disagrees with you. At least in part of the Venetian. I trust specialists more in such matters.
        1. Liam
          Liam 7 October 2020 17: 06
          +3
          Laporcaro does not say this. He says that there are dialects, conventionally, of the first category and the second. The Venetian dialect belongs to the former.
          Michele Loporcaro, Profilo linguistico dei dialetti italiani, Laterza, 2009.
          “I dialetti italiani sono dunque varietà italo-romanze indipendenti o, in altre parole, dialetti romanzi primari, categoria che si oppone a quella di dialetti secondari... Sono dialetti primari dell'italiano quelle varietà che con esso stanno in rapporto di subordinazione sociolinguistica e condividono con esso una medesima origine (latina). Dialetti secondari di una data lingua si dicono invece quei dialetti insorti dalla differenziazione geografica di tale lingua anziché di una lingua madre comune. "


          Essendo, di fatto, un continuum dialettale non normalizzato, secondo il linguista Michele Loporcaro il veneto è un "dialetto romanzo primario"
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 7 October 2020 21: 44
            +1
            I will not argue. Linguistics is not my forte.
            1. Liam
              Liam 7 October 2020 21: 54
              +1
              To put it simply, the dialects of the first category are dialects from Latin, which have not "grown" to a full-fledged language. The second category is geographical dialects from Italian
      2. Operator
        Operator 7 October 2020 17: 57
        +1
        Nothing of the kind - the Friulian language is called native by 600 thousand modern Italians (out of the bottom 250 thousand they use it). In addition to the Latin base, it contains many borrowings from the Slavic Venetian (residents of the historical region of Veneto from the end of the 2nd millennium BC) and Germanic Gothic (4th-6th century AD).

        Romansh is used as one of the state languages ​​by a part of the Swiss and a small group of Italians living on the border with Switzerland. It is believed that it is based on the native language of the Italians before their conquest by the Romans, speaking a corrupted Italic language, influenced by the language of the Etruscans - migrants from Asia Minor.
    3. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 7 October 2020 16: 13
      +3
      Three hundred including all dialects are about nothing.
      Only twice as many as in Dagestan alone).
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 7 October 2020 16: 45
        0
        This is not about the quantity and not about Dagestan.
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 7 October 2020 16: 57
          +2
          Yes I understand. So, a slight irony.
          In this regard, I like the thesis that a dialect then becomes a language when it has its own army and navy.
          In this regard, dialects of European languages ​​are just shtetl dialects.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 7 October 2020 14: 36
    +5
    Toga drapery is very difficult and requires preparatory measures, including the use of special mannequins.

    There was such a special now extinct "profession" in Rome - the toga stacker, of course they were slaves. Special wooden dies were used to form the correct folds of the toga.
    Eh, where can you find a good toga stacker now ... wink
    There was even a special Roman law that established fines for violating toga folds.

    There, in my opinion, there was more than one law of this kind, they were periodically published, but fashionistas still violated them. If I am not mistaken, in the time of Caesar it was fashionable to wear a long toga to drag along the ground.
    1. AllBiBek
      AllBiBek 7 October 2020 15: 32
      +4
      And much longer, there is a standard size toga - two Muslims for burial shrouds ...
      1. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 7 October 2020 15: 37
        +5
        Quote: AllBiBek
        And much longer,

        So after all, fashion sometimes defies logic and reason laughing
        1. AllBiBek
          AllBiBek 7 October 2020 15: 43
          +4
          Everything is clear here. A direct analogue of sleeves to the ground in the Old Russian boyars and other rich people.
          Transfer of attention to the legs below the knees, plus - a signal that the wearer can afford a piece of fabric for a flare.
          Regarding the hairstyle, it is even simpler, the signal "I have no lice, but I have free time for hair care."
          Stylish fashion in its essence is a kind of neo-rococo, and a local subspecies.
          1. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 7 October 2020 15: 47
            +4
            So after all, they, too, were "chased" by the police as well as Roman fashionistas.
            I don’t know if specially trained people cut their togas laughing , such information has not reached us, but laws against such "disgrace" are mentioned.
            1. AllBiBek
              AllBiBek 7 October 2020 16: 11
              +4
              And so it was, is, and will be. That's why she is youth.
              Rebellion against current morality, raising self-esteem in their eyes.
              After all, they meet by their clothes, and few people think about wires in their youth.
        2. kalibr
          7 October 2020 15: 54
          +7
          When I was a boy I wore bell-bottomed pants
          Straw hat, Finnish knife in my pocket ...
          I stabbed my father, and I strangled my mother,
          I drowned my little sister-schoolgirl in the toilet ...
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 7 October 2020 17: 22
            +5
            "He wore tight trousers
            read Hemingway.
            "Tastes, brother, non-Russians ..."
            my father suggested, growing gloomy. "(c).
            1. Nikolai Korovin
              Nikolai Korovin 7 October 2020 18: 33
              +4
              - What do they give?
              - Exupery.
              - Is it better than crimplen?
              - I don’t know, I didn’t drink.
              Hemingauy was also read, read. They just didn't understand ...
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 7 October 2020 19: 22
                +1
                Each generation reads and understands in its own way.
                1. Nikolai Korovin
                  Nikolai Korovin 7 October 2020 19: 25
                  +1
                  Yes it is, a joke. Don't ask who the bell tolls about. I doubt, however, that young people are now fond of Hemingway or Exupery. Now something else is at the forefront.
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 7 October 2020 19: 29
                    +1
                    Any generation will have a sample with a penchant for such literature.
                  2. AllBiBek
                    AllBiBek 7 October 2020 21: 35
                    +1
                    And by the way, in vain.
                    "The Little Prince" is a teenage read for all time, and without prompting from the school curriculum. Exupery's brilliant mistake, he conceived it as a fairy tale for primary school age.
                    1. kalibr
                      8 October 2020 07: 29
                      0
                      My granddaughter didn't like it ...
                      1. AllBiBek
                        AllBiBek 8 October 2020 08: 38
                        0
                        So the time has not come yet. I didn’t fall in love so much that it seems that this is it, the one that is universal, and forever.
                        If she does, give her "Ship Hill" by Richard Adams. Comes in and clicks on the brain with a 99% probability.
                        Name variants - "Waltership Hill", "On Waltership Hill", "Bizarre Adventures of Rabbits".
                        At one time, this book was written for his daughter from dad for the night, and when dad read it on the phone, in a couple of British counties telephone communication was lost at that time. For the telephonists listened, and they were in a hurry to work). Women are women at all times ...

                        And this is really one of those books that turn consciousness at any age. Where is Harry Potter and other Mummy Trolls ...
                      2. kalibr
                        8 October 2020 08: 57
                        0
                        Certainly not in love, and thank God!
              2. kalibr
                7 October 2020 20: 57
                +1
                Now young people are more in high esteem "Flowers for the grave of Algernon" by D. Keyes
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 7 October 2020 21: 25
                  +1
                  Senior daughters have reported this book for a relatively long time. Not hooked.
                  1. Nikolai Korovin
                    Nikolai Korovin 7 October 2020 22: 16
                    0
                    Naturally. Very touching, but highly unlikely.
        3. Nikolai Korovin
          Nikolai Korovin 7 October 2020 18: 28
          +4
          Interesting. Complete coincidence of associations. Looking at the photo of the vidmedics of the bell-footed ones, I remembered this particular stanza.
  10. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 October 2020 20: 11
    +3
    Eh, where can you find a good toga stacker now ...
    Most of us used to line the pillows on the thread and beat off the right angles on the blankets with special devices. laughing
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 7 October 2020 21: 57
      +1
      Looking in the East?
  • Fat
    Fat 9 October 2020 20: 06
    0
    Vyacheslav Olegovich! This is all very powerful. But who then came up with the trousers. All in all, perfect military clothing. Rough - pants
  • Storm Uesugi
    Storm Uesugi 25 October 2020 05: 11
    0
    many letters, few real pictures
    1 before the Romans there were some sort of Eturian - only the Etruscans had kokoshniks and the Romans had nothing at all
    2 How true are the sweepers and how are they all without hats then? Was it hot there in Italy? or not hot?
  • EVDmitri
    EVDmitri 7 November 2020 13: 35
    0
    The Christian faith was born and strengthened not in Rome, but in the Middle East.