Military Review

According to the precepts of "Ferdinand": the United States is ready to adopt a hybrid Bradley

68

Source: army.mil


Progress does not stop


The military has always loved everything new. Often, an unlimited budget allowed you to experiment and choose the best solution from the proposed ones. And now the Office of Critical Technology of the US Army has allocated 32 million dollars to develop an electric transmission for the Bradley BMP. Apparently, the engineering staff in the United States realized the futility of further improvement of internal combustion engines and switched to alternative technologies. The good old scheme of driving propellers with electric motors, tested by Ferdinand Porsche on his anti-tank self-propelled guns, turned out to be in demand in the United States. The British BAE Systems is responsible for the technological part, working in collaboration with QinetiQ, which has designed the Modular EX-Drive electric transmission. This block of motors is located across the body and drives the driving wheels of the armored vehicle. As mentioned above, the American Bradley is initially supposed to be used as a model.


Source: ukdj.imgix.net

The obvious advantage of this solution will be the reduction in loads on the main motor, which plays the role of a generator. The absence of a rigid connection with the transmission should have a positive effect on the resource of the diesel engine. The engine speed with the electric drive of the drive wheels is fairly stable most of the time, which, in turn, reduces the average fuel consumption. But the main bonus from the electric transmission is the almost inexhaustible source of power supply for onboard equipment. If earlier it was required to build powerful generators for such purposes, and often auxiliary power plants, now there will be no need for them. BAE Systems claims that electric motors are lighter and more compact than hydromechanical transmissions. Even fifteen or twenty years ago it was hard to believe, but now there is every reason for this. Taken together, the Modular EX-Drive electric transmission replaces the mass of auxiliary equipment, which ultimately gives a gain in mass. Yes, and progress in the field of electric motor construction did not stand still: equipment in many ways became lighter and more compact.


Various variations of the Modular EX-Drive. Source: youtube channel QinetiQ

QinetiQ has so far developed three sizes of electric transmission. For light armored vehicles Light Tracker Military Vehicles, for "middle class" - Medium Tracker Military Vehicles and for heavy vehicles (up to 80 tons) - Heavy Tracker Military Vehicles. QinetiQ has already tested prototypes on all three categories of armored vehicles, including tanks Abrams. The advantage of the Modular EX-Drive modular system, which QinetiQ has been developing since 1998, is the ability to integrate with minor alterations into almost any modern engine-transmission compartment of US Army armored vehicles. The main integration options can be AMPV (armored multipurpose vehicle), M109A7 self-propelled guns and MLRS (Multiple Launch Rocket Systems) MLRS family.


All bonuses are HED. And not a single minus. Source: assets.newatlas.com

The attentive reader will surely notice that the title of the article mentions the hybrid Bradley. Indeed, electric transmission is the main, but not the only part of technical innovation in the US Army BMP. All this electric историяinspired by the German Ferdinand self-propelled gun, it is part of a large Hybrid Electric Drive (HED) system. Since there is a hybrid drive, then there must be a battery that powers the electric motors. In the case of the Bredley-HED, this is a lithium-ion battery pack that works in sync with the base engine as needed, increasing vehicle speed, or independently powers the Modular EX-Drive electric motors.

According to the precepts of "Ferdinand": the United States is ready to adopt a hybrid Bradley
The heaviest EV module. Source: greencarcongress.com

Here the key advantage of the whole venture is realized - noiseless operation in a fully battery mode of operation. Such an infantry fighting vehicle can sneak unnoticed near the enemy, taking the most convenient position for an attack. An inoperative diesel engine sharply reduces the thermal signature of the BMP for both observation systems and seeker heads. Another thing is that a hybrid drive requires rather big batteries for such a heavy car, which, obviously, completely destroys all weight savings. And it's hard to believe in BAE Systems' statements about the compactness and lightness of the novelty. Even taking into account the fact that Modular EX-Drive electric motors also act as generators for regenerative charging of batteries. The second serious disadvantage is the potentially high fire hazard of lithium-ion batteries. There are already enough flammable substances on board the combat vehicle, and then there is lithium, which cannot even be extinguished with foam and water. In general, one can argue for a long time about the combination of advantages and disadvantages of the new product from BAE Systems.

Environmentally friendly armored vehicles


As mentioned above, the Modular EX-Drive can also be mounted on wheeled vehicles. The schematic diagram of the device does not undergo major changes, only a compact electric motor is installed on each wheel. Axles, driveshafts, transfer cases and gearboxes can be thrown away. In such a "wheeled train" only the internal combustion engine, generator, wires and motor-wheels remain. All that remains is to plug it into a smart control system, and the electric transmission is ready to go into battle. Something similar was implemented on the German Genesis technology demonstrator.


Modular EX-Drive motor-wheel. Source: youtube-channel QinetiQ

This eight-wheeled platform, similar to the technique from a cheap science fiction movie, is equipped with a 1860-horsepower motor generator. The wheels can rotate independently of each other, which should provide good cross-country ability and maneuverability. Naturally, there is a battery pack, on the energy of which Genesis can travel up to 150 kilometers. I will clarify that this is the developer's data, they can seriously disagree with reality. Moreover, this is only a technology demonstrator. In military hybridization technologies, the multiple complication of the technical component is confusing. Instead of time-tested solutions, engineers go not even to evolutionary development, but immediately to the electromechanical revolution. And it is known that the more complex the system, the more vulnerabilities it has and the less reliable it is. If even in the civilian sector hybrid technologies have taken root very conditionally due to excessive complexity and mass, then in the military environment this will be even more problematic. Is the ephemeral reduction in noise and visibility worth such technological tweaks? The feeling that progress in this area is only for the sake of progress itself.




Hybrid Genesis. Source: invoen.ru

Where will armored vehicles go next? If prototypes are already appearing, complicated by systems for reducing fuel consumption taken from the automotive world, then this line of development will continue in the future. Now in press releases, military corporations do not hesitate to mention the environmental friendliness of their armored vehicles. With such a history in the future, tanks may well have exhaust gas recirculation systems and multi-stage particulate filters. In the end, the army will refuel its equipment not only with diesel fuel, but also with urea, which is now fashionable, without which no diesel engine in Europe can do without. In the absence of urea in the tank, the automatics will independently limit the engine power, so that the tanks do not pollute the atmosphere with excessive emissions. It's ridiculous, of course, but the most sophisticated fuel saving technologies coming in the army, it is quite possible, will bring with them the greening of armor.
Author:
68 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. NEXUS
    NEXUS 2 October 2020 04: 49 New
    -2
    Now in press releases, military corporations do not hesitate to mention the environmental friendliness of their armored vehicles.

    1. Vladimir61
      Vladimir61 2 October 2020 05: 05 New
      +3
      Quote: NEXUS
      Now in press releases, military corporations do not hesitate to mention the environmental friendliness of their armored vehicles
      "Don't be afraid, we won't hurt you, chick, and you're already in heaven."
    2. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 2 October 2020 05: 15 New
      +2
      The batteries are made somewhere in Asia.
      And oil is not burned in Europe.
  2. Same lech
    Same lech 2 October 2020 05: 07 New
    +3
    There is not enough lithium on our planet for the large-scale production of high-capacity lithium batteries ... what will we do when it runs out?
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 2 October 2020 05: 18 New
      +4
      Yes, every day, every other day, they publish news about new batteries, which are cheaper, easier, safer ...
      True, no one does anything on a massive scale yet. But this is a matter of time.
    2. sen
      sen 2 October 2020 05: 37 New
      +9
      The largest lithium deposits are located in Chile, Bolivia, USA, Argentina, Congo, China, Brazil, Serbia and Australia. The most developed mining of this metal is in Australia, Chile and Argentina.
      Own production of lithium in Russia was completely lost after the collapse of the USSR. The first lithium mine was commissioned back in 1941 in Eastern Transbaikalia, at the Zavitinskoye spodumene deposit. The enterprise worked for 56 years and was mothballed in 1997 due to a change in the economic situation. Since the late 1990s, due to the closure of the only mine in Eastern Transbaikalia, lithium products have been imported mainly from Chile, Bolivia, Argentina, the United States and China.
      In 2017, a pilot plant was launched in Russia, allowing the extraction of lithium from poor ores at low cost. The technology being introduced will help meet the country's demand for lithium entirely from its own reserves and get rid of imported raw materials.
      Lithium reserves in Russia, according to experts from the Analytical Credit Rating Agency (ACRA), amount to about 900 thousand tons. More than 50% of the reserves are concentrated in rare metal deposits in the Murmansk region.
      But using lithium-ion batteries on most armored vehicles is overkill. Another thing is special armored vehicles - reconnaissance for the MTR.
      1. ZEMCH
        ZEMCH 2 October 2020 18: 57 New
        0
        Quote: sen
        The largest lithium deposits are located in Chile, Bolivia, USA, Argentina, Congo, China, Brazil, Serbia and Australia. The most developed mining of this metal is in Australia, Chile and Argentina.

        Forgotten Afghanistan, there is lithium to one place, they are waiting for their development, democratizers cannot cope yet
    3. Ka-52
      Ka-52 2 October 2020 08: 21 New
      +4
      what will we do when it ends?

      then we remember the school, open the periodic table and look at the neighboring element what yes
      1. astepanov
        astepanov 2 October 2020 14: 15 New
        +3
        Quote: Ka-52
        then we remember the school, open the periodic table and look at the neighboring element

        For beryllium, or what? Or to your neighbor on the left - to helium? Yeah, great offer.
    4. Lopatov
      Lopatov 2 October 2020 09: 15 New
      +5
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      There is not enough lithium on our planet for the large-scale production of high-capacity lithium batteries ... what will we do when it runs out?

      It is possible without lithium. You can do without batteries at all, replace them with capacitors. For an electric transmission or electromechanical transmission, they are enough.
      1. Momotomba
        Momotomba 4 October 2020 18: 53 New
        0
        If it was possible to replace the battery with capacitors, why haven't they done this yet? wink Probably because it cannot be done in principle hi
        1. Monar
          Monar 6 October 2020 07: 09 New
          0
          Probably because it cannot be done in principle
          Can. Moreover, the absence of chemical reactions in the process of charging the discharge takes the conduits to a new level. The same heat release is determined only by the Joule-Lenz law. Supercapacitors show excellent results in engine starting systems.
          1. Momotomba
            Momotomba 6 October 2020 07: 14 New
            0
            That's what you mean. A supercapacitor is not quite a condenser. For me at least. wink
            1. Monar
              Monar 6 October 2020 07: 27 New
              0
              Yes, consider whatever you like. Though not quite Akum. There are 3 types of them.
              1. Momotomba
                Momotomba 6 October 2020 18: 29 New
                0
                Yes, at least 10 ...
    5. astepanov
      astepanov 2 October 2020 14: 11 New
      +9
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      There is not enough lithium on our planet for the large-scale production of high-capacity lithium batteries ... what will we do when it runs out?
      First, there is an abundance of lithium on the planet. Now they just skim the cream off the rich deposits. Secondly, for batteries that are large and small, the same amount of lithium is needed. Do you, for an hour, confuse power with energy consumption?
      Third, lithium-ion batteries are not required for a hybrid. And a large energy reserve is not needed. Back in 2012, Russia tested an armored personnel carrier "Krymsk" with a hybrid power plant and electrochemical capacitors as energy storage devices. I was part of the design team for these capacitors. And the tests of the armored personnel carrier were considered successful. Autonomous running on electric traction is less than with lithium-ion batteries, but on the other hand, it has a long resource, explosion and fire safety, good fuel economy and very simple maintenance. It is a pity that few people know about this and few people remember, but they constantly nod towards their enemies.
      PS While I was scratching myself, Lopatov published a photo of Krymsk. Thanks!
      1. Momotomba
        Momotomba 4 October 2020 18: 58 New
        0
        Quote: astepanov
        good fuel economy

        Where does it come from?
        1. astepanov
          astepanov 4 October 2020 20: 13 New
          0
          Quote: Momotomba
          Where does it come from?
          Braking energy recovery. Equalization of engine loads. In general, google "hybrid engine".
          Quote: Bad_gr
          And batteries are needed at a minimum: to start a diesel generator + power supply to electrical equipment when the generator is not working. And that's enough.

          If you don't know, don't judge. There are many advantages: fuel economy, increased engine resource, improved performance of on-board electronics, reduced thermal visibility ...
          1. Momotomba
            Momotomba 5 October 2020 07: 36 New
            0
            Quote: astepanov
            Braking energy recovery.

            Do you seriously think that this will help to IMPORTANTly reduce fuel consumption? Funny ...
            1. astepanov
              astepanov 5 October 2020 09: 08 New
              0
              I, my friend, did such things professionally. You can play as much as you like - the opinion of amateurs does not touch me.
              1. Momotomba
                Momotomba 5 October 2020 19: 48 New
                0
                Yes, I kind of understand a little about electromechanics too hi So I ask you, a professional, to explain to me, an amateur, how in such a miraculous way you can significantly save fuel consumption due to the regenerative braking of an electric car? If you mean something else, then I ask you to clarify, because I do not understand. Yours faithfully!
                1. astepanov
                  astepanov 5 October 2020 22: 23 New
                  0
                  Take a look at this site: https: //ustroistvo-avtomobilya.ru/sistemy-snizheniya-toksichnosti/evropejskij-tsikl-dvizheniya-nedc-dlya-tipovyh-ispytanij/, there are standard driving cycles that are used to estimate fuel consumption. For wheeled vehicles, an energy consumption of 120 Watt-hour per tonne-kilometer is adopted. (New European Driving Cycle, new European driving cycle). The duration of the cycle is 1220 seconds (4 x 195 seconds + 1 x 400 seconds). The cycle length is 11007 meters. Average speed 33,6 km / h. The maximum speed is 120 km / h. This cycle provides for about 15 accelerations and decelerations to zero. It is clear that you cannot accelerate an armored personnel carrier to 120 km / h, and the test cycle for the military is somewhat different, but everything is very similar. So, let's consider the movement without recuperation of a machine with a conventional weight of 1 ton. We obtain the energy consumption by multiplying the specific consumption by the path length: 11,007 km * 120 W-h / ton-km * 1 ton = 1,33 kW-h (actually a little more, because you still need to spend energy for the initial acceleration). Let's assume that the maximum speed at each acceleration is 50 km / h. (13,8 m / s) Then the kinetic energy E of the machine after acceleration = mV ^ 2/2 = 96,4 kJ = 26,79 Wh. There are 15 such accelerations, and the total energy spent on them will be 0,4 kWh. This energy can be stored with high efficiency during braking and used during subsequent accelerations. and is 30% of the standard energy without recuperation ((1,33 kWh). It is clear that the real savings strongly depends on the cyclograms of movement and the figures are quite relative. The more often braking and acceleration and the higher the peak speed, the greater the savings. (and the engine works in very shabby conditions, at almost constant rpm, and you can reduce its power without loss in dynamics - which was done.) The military, if my memory does not hurt me, conducted tests at peaks of 55 km / h and at short intervals In these conditions, the savings were about 30%, but driving at a constant speed on the highway, for obvious reasons, will not give any savings.
                  1. Momotomba
                    Momotomba 5 October 2020 23: 51 New
                    0
                    Well, if you accelerate to 11 km / h for 50 km of distance and brake to 15 0 times, then there may be a point. I will trust your estimates. Although the military likes to ride in columns, there are not very many brakes, rather a heavy monotonous ride there. This means that the classic wheel drive is more efficient.
                    Quote: astepanov
                    This energy can be stored with high efficiency during braking and used during subsequent accelerations. and is 30% of the standard energy without recuperation ((1,33 kWh).

                    Well, if you only brake with a motor-wheel, then it is quite possible. True, at low speeds, this method of braking is ineffective from the word VERY.
                    The problem is that people slow down differently, i.e. sharply and at a short distance.
                    As a scientific idea - super! But, I'm afraid, physics and reality will not allow to justify the need to install the drive you proposed. It has been used on diesel locomotives for a long time and the rationale for the choice there is different (as with Fedya).
                    If it's not a secret, on an armored personnel carrier in a motor-wheel HELL with frequency control? Or what else is worth?
                  2. kig
                    kig 11 November 2020 02: 13 New
                    0
                    You are referring to "standard cycles", calculated in the offices by smart people, but only in such modes, cars drive only on landfills. Look at the characteristics of any car in the dealership and compare the economy on paper and on the street. In reality, everything is completely different from what it really is.
                  3. kig
                    kig 11 November 2020 02: 14 New
                    0
                    You are referring to "standard cycles", calculated in the offices by smart people, but only in such modes, cars drive only on landfills. Look at the characteristics of any car in the dealership and compare the economy on paper and on the street. In reality, everything is completely different from what it really is.
    6. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 2 October 2020 16: 07 New
      -1
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      for large-scale production of high capacity lithium batteries ...

      Are they even needed in military equipment? For what ? To quietly drive up to the enemy?
      The electric transmission allows you to simplify the transmission, operate the diesel in more favorable modes for it and more efficiently use the engine power (both for driving and for equipment).
      And batteries are needed at a minimum: to start a diesel generator + power supply to electrical equipment when the generator is not working. And that's enough.
    7. maktub
      maktub 2 October 2020 17: 23 New
      -2
      According to world estimates, 53 million tons.
  3. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 2 October 2020 05: 09 New
    +1
    On the one hand, reading about the environmental friendliness of military equipment is somehow even ridiculous. In principle, war is a very harmful event.
    On the other hand, most of the time, and often all his life, this technique does not fight, but is used for exercises and / or parades.
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 2 October 2020 15: 57 New
      +3
      .... Now, in press releases, military corporations do not hesitate to mention the environmental friendliness of their armored vehicles ...

      "-..... Israeli tanks with noise exceeding 80dB will not be allowed on the territory of the Palestinian Authority ......."
  4. Izotovp
    Izotovp 2 October 2020 05: 29 New
    0
    Increasing energy consumption (lasers, railguns, etc ...) and the development of nuclear technology may lead to the emergence of heavy armored vehicles and mobile launchers with compact nuclear reactors on board.
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 2 October 2020 08: 01 New
      +4
      could lead to the emergence of heavy armored vehicles and mobile launchers with compact nuclear reactors on board.

      for the near future these are only wet dreams. firstly, the most "portable" vigorous reactors have a size of 2mx2m. Because it is impossible to infinitely miniturize the equipment for managed nuclear decay. secondly, to protect the reactor from shaking, a powerful hydraulic platform is needed. Let's add here the radiation protection of the crew and get a monster on wheels. Who wants to ride under fire, sitting on a nuclear bomb? laughing
      there is, of course, RTG - radioisotope thermoelectric generators. They are more compact. But there, with the above disadvantages with radioactivity and the danger of contamination, there is also a small output power. If a mini-reactor will give at least a dozen kilowatts, then an RTG - a couple of hundred watts (electrical) maximum. It's easier to attach a photovoltaic panel to the roof and the same result laughing
      1. yehat2
        yehat2 2 October 2020 11: 32 New
        -1
        there is a technology of gel batteries, they can fill all the free space.
        In principle, there should already be enough batteries for technology.
        But they still need to be fed and so far there are no successful complex solutions - they have been looking for them for 20 years.
        1. astepanov
          astepanov 2 October 2020 14: 42 New
          0
          Quote: yehat2
          there is a technology of gel batteries, they can fill all the free space.
          In principle, there should already be enough batteries for technology.

          Let's count. Let the mass of the projectile be 3 kg, the departure speed is 1500 m / s, and the length of the rail gun is 10 meters. We consider the power: the kinetic energy of the projectile is 1500 * 1500 * 3/2 = 3375000 J = 3,37 MJ. The average speed of the projectile in the barrel is 750 m / s, hence the acceleration time is 10/750 = 0,013 s. Let's find the power by dividing the energy by the time: 3,37 / 0,013 = 259 MW! For reference: the VVER reactor of the Novoronezh NPP has approximately the same electrical power. It contains 40 tons of uranium alone! And the total weight is thousands of tons! And how will you cool it? There will never be any batteries, no rectors for railguns on tanks. You can put such a thing on an aircraft carrier, feeding it from a buffer capacitor battery weighing hundreds of tons, but even this is difficult, dangerous and expensive. And the tank is pure fantasy.
          1. yehat2
            yehat2 2 October 2020 15: 07 New
            -1
            I didn't speak about the rail
            1. astepanov
              astepanov 2 October 2020 15: 41 New
              0
              You supported the comment about the railgun
              1. yehat2
                yehat2 2 October 2020 15: 44 New
                -1
                no, did not support
  5. Free wind
    Free wind 2 October 2020 06: 42 New
    +1
    Such armor is more likely to be used in expensive films, the author fantasizes a little. Lithium ignites at a temperature of about 300 degrees, the author lied a little about ignition. Eco-friendly diesels are produced without urea, the author lied a little. Eco-friendly motors that run with urea can also run without urea. and the power can be reduced, but it can also be increased, everything is in the computer settings, I pressed the button, the mode changed, the author lied a little.
    1. Evgeny Fedorov
      2 October 2020 07: 30 New
      +3
      Lithium ignites at a temperature of about 300 degrees, the author lied a little about ignition.

      In your opinion, is it difficult to make lithium flash in the fighting compartment? A shard from the armor will pierce the battery and the lithium will ignite from the water vapor in the air.
      Eco-friendly diesels are produced without urea, the author lied a little.
      Produced, but not in Europe (except, perhaps, construction equipment).
      Eco-friendly motors that run with urea can also run without urea. and the power can be reduced, but it can also be increased, everything is in the computer settings, I pressed the button, the mode changed, the author lied a little.
      Simple as that!
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 2 October 2020 09: 02 New
        -2
        Quote: Evgeny Fedorov
        In your opinion, is it difficult to force lithium to flash in the fighting compartment?

        Why did you decide that this particular type of battery will go into production?
        1. Evgeny Fedorov
          2 October 2020 09: 25 New
          +2
          This is what the BAE Systems press release says. And logic suggests - in terms of the ratio of volume and accumulated energy, lithium-ion is beyond competition so far. Or do you think nickel metal hydride will go? They are safer but take up more space. By the way, in the article I did not indicate the problem of cooling the batteries. If the Bradly runs 150 km on electric, it needs a separate liquid cooling circuit for the battery pack. And this is again a separate volume and mass.
          1. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 2 October 2020 09: 34 New
            -1
            Can I link to the release? In general, the decision takes place for life, but the battery is a weak point, I agree with this. The scheme, as on Belaz, is possibly more suitable, until more efficient and safer batteries have been developed.
      2. astepanov
        astepanov 2 October 2020 17: 12 New
        0
        Quote: Evgeny Fedorov
        lithium will be ignited by water vapor in the air.

        Lithium does not need water vapor to ignite. Moreover, lithium can be safely handled, which I have done many times. Lithium-ion batteries explode for a completely different reason. But blows and shaking are really dangerous for them.
  6. Cherry Nine
    Cherry Nine 2 October 2020 08: 36 New
    +4
    For what purpose did the author write this article? To giggle at "eco-friendly" armored vehicles? Fashion is fashion.

    Discuss hybridization attempts? What is there to discuss? During WWII, electric transmissions performed well, but were heavy, expensive and difficult to operate, as a result of which everyone used mechanics, then hydraulics. Now we have a huge breakthrough in the civilian automotive industry, mass electric vehicles with a capacity of 500 hp and above, not the military, but a much larger and more advanced civilian auto industry has made radical changes in the use of electric propulsion. Naturally, the military is trying old solutions in new conditions, why not?
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 2 October 2020 09: 00 New
      -2
      Ecology is not a fashion, it is a necessity. Look what is happening in the cities, in calm weather with us.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 2 October 2020 09: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: Free Wind
        Look what is happening in the cities, in calm weather with us.

        Forgive me, but if American armored vehicles appear in a noticeable quantity in your city, then the air quality will hardly bother you seriously.
      2. garri-lin
        garri-lin 2 October 2020 20: 04 New
        0
        The harm to the environment from the production of lithium batteries is much greater than the harm from burning off tons of fuel.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 3 October 2020 02: 27 New
          -1
          It's a long conversation, but the fact is that battery production takes place not there where people live, in contrast to the work of the internal combustion engine. Therefore, even if the sum effect is negative, it is positive from the point of view of people's quality of life.

          Naturally, we are talking about mass electric vehicles, and not about armored vehicles.
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 3 October 2020 02: 49 New
            0
            Massive, truly mass-produced electric vehicles are a huge harm to the environment in general. These are tens of millions of batteries a year. Breathing in the city without exhaust emissions will certainly be easier. But it is not clear what to breathe. Lithium batteries have an alternative. And not alone. And some are quite environmentally friendly.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 3 October 2020 02: 51 New
              -4
              What does "what to breathe" mean? Breathe air. Lithium factories, good or bad, are not in the city.
              1. garri-lin
                garri-lin 3 October 2020 08: 41 New
                0
                What I mean is that if the production of batteries is increased and brought to the number of cars produced annually, then the harm to the environment will already be global. If every car is an electric car. Not in a year, not in two, but in several years. And there will be no minus harm from the reduction of fuel combustion. Electricity needs to be produced. And this is a thermal power plant.
    2. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 2 October 2020 09: 04 New
      0
      Such a scheme is practically the only one possible for super-heavy equipment. The same Belaz were created in a similar scheme, only without batteries.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 2 October 2020 09: 40 New
        -3
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        Such a scheme is practically the only one possible for super-heavy equipment.

        For super heavy, yes, but armored vehicles are not super heavy. Up to 100 tons hydraulics are the main solution. Another thing is that in modern circumstances the balance shifts, and people try those solutions that were previously suboptimal. The pluses remain, the minuses are slowly fixing, why not try again?
  7. g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 2 October 2020 08: 46 New
    +2
    Off-road recovery is needed as a fifth wheel. For cars, it is questionable in terms of efficiency, because the time for a charge in the recuperation mode gives energy to the accumulator much less than the cost of acceleration and uphill, and this is on an ideal surface. Driving off-road on some batteries ... well, I doubt that with the existing means of reconnaissance and target designation, it will crawl so much over a windbreak with mud or over city rubble.
    1. Proctologist
      Proctologist 2 October 2020 10: 31 New
      +1
      Quote: g1washntwn
      Off-road driving on the same batteries.

      I suppose that completely on batteries, such vehicles should cover only a few kilometers - within sight of enemy thermal imagers, and they need hybridity to temporarily increase power, to work both on batteries and on a generator.

      We saw all this on European hybrid cars, where the electric motor power for a car of the BMW 7xx class was something ~ 30 hp, and nevertheless it was effective in some modes.
      1. g1washntwn
        g1washntwn 2 October 2020 11: 01 New
        0
        BMP Bradley: weight 21-34,3 tons, engine - VTA-903T500 500 hp (367,75 kW). Even if it is jammed with Tesla batteries, it will require a full charge on soft ground in a couple of minutes. He'll have time to slip between the houses on the highway, it'll do. And ... yes, it is tracked.
  8. ifdru74
    ifdru74 2 October 2020 09: 50 New
    0
    In principle, the refinement of the electric movement to the modern level is quite possible. In principle, lithium batteries are not needed for it. I will make a reservation right away that I mean the classic ICE-generator-electric motors scheme. It will even be interesting if someone can make powerful and compact electric motors and generators, and also solve the problem of cooling this whole zoo. Of the advantages of electric traction is the ability to easily implement different types of movement, which are difficult to do on mechanics or hydraulic equipment. For example: different speed of rotation of the onboard drives, not to mention the multidirectional rotation of these. The Germans did it for the MBT / Leopard, and the Americans took it away. Ours still cannot or want to do this. And until recently, they did not want to make a quickly replaceable MTU. Of the minuses, we can note the vulnerability to one of the facts of the use of nuclear weapons by an electromagnetic wave. Although here you can think.
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 2 October 2020 16: 21 New
      -1
      Quote: ifdru74
      Ours still cannot or want to do this.

      Here it has already been written about the "Krymsk", and the other day there was an article about the installation of mine clearance UR-15 code "Meteor". There is no need to build vain on ours.
      1. ifdru74
        ifdru74 4 October 2020 23: 51 New
        0
        The fact that R&D has been completed and prototypes have been released is great. As soon as it becomes massive for most of the MBT fleet, then it will be possible to say what ours have done.
        70 years have passed since the separation of the MBT-2 program into American and German units and before the release of Leopard 9 began.
  9. Undecim
    Undecim 2 October 2020 10: 47 New
    +3
    According to the precepts of "Ferdinand":
    The author has already extended the genre of the sketch to technical articles.
    Why according to the precepts of "Ferdinand"? Tank builders tried to realize the advantages of electric transmission long before Ferdinand, back in the thirties, including in the USSR.
    Even a KV was created with an electric transmission - EKV, and it was built in metal. The work began in 1941 and continued despite the war. Next came the IS-6 and IS-7 with electric transmission.
    Abroad, similar work was also carried out regularly. Now the technique has reached a new level, of course, the creators of BTT are trying to use them. And it is completely inappropriate to be mischievous here, unless, of course, the task is to sketch more abundantly.
  10. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 2 October 2020 11: 32 New
    +1
    "Axles, driveshafts, transfer cases and gearboxes can be thrown away.
    In such a "wheeled train" only the internal combustion engine, generator,
    wires and motor-wheels "///
    ----
    Remains a diesel generator and wheel motors.
    Free up space under the armor for ammunition and weapon systems.
    1. Couchexpert
      Couchexpert 2 October 2020 14: 06 New
      0
      Motor wheels outside the armor will be vulnerable to fire, in case of damage and replacement, they will cost much more, they will require solving the issue of cooling (windings and rubbing parts) during a long march. The place under the armor that was previously occupied by "bridges, cardans, boxes" will now be taken by a healthy generator (which also needs to be cooled: air conditioners, radiators ...).

      In general, there are no energy sources on the horizon yet capable of competing in energy density with a gas tank (self-relieving). Another 100-150 years in this spirit and we will not have to invent batteries for transport, but think about more efficient technologies for the synthesis of artificial fuel for good old internal combustion engines (the peak of oil, according to various sources, we have either already passed or are about to).
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 2 October 2020 16: 35 New
        -1
        Quote: CouchExpert
        and we will not have to invent batteries for transport, but think about more efficient technologies for the synthesis of artificial fuel for good old internal combustion engines

        Alternatively, diesel fuel cells (conversion of fuel energy directly into electricity). On gas, there have been such for a long time, only the dimensions are still large (at the same power compared to the diesel generator)
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 2 October 2020 16: 30 New
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      .... and wheel motors.

      Motor-wheels are not always a plus. If the engines are powerful, then in addition to the power supply with a powerful cable, a cooling system is also required, and all this is in a wheel that jumps and turns in the suspension.
      In my opinion, it is better to have an engine in a case and already through a cardan the force is transferred to the wheel (a design that has been worked out for decades). Place the electric motors in the lower part of the hull, along the sides, and also serve as additional protection.
  11. Rzzz
    Rzzz 2 October 2020 17: 44 New
    -1
    And how was Ferdinand hitched sideways here?
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 2 October 2020 21: 59 New
      -1
      Quote: rzzz
      And how was Ferdinand hitched sideways here?
      He had an electric transmission.
      1. Rzzz
        Rzzz 2 October 2020 22: 41 New
        -2
        So Ferdinand was not the first tank with an electric transmission. Back in 1916, the French Saint Chamond was released. And in quantities much more than Ferdinand.
        And in general, the electric transmission of the same Ferdinand and the electric transmission of modern technology are two completely different things. There are only names in common.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 2 October 2020 22: 53 New
          -1
          Quote: rzzz
          There are only names in common.
          General: diesel generator + drive to the drive wheels through electric motors. Another question is that there is no movement from batteries. But in my opinion, for heavy military equipment, it is not necessary. If it were a city bus or a mining dump truck in mountainous areas, where energy could be driven into batteries or capacitors through recuperation, and then used, is another matter. Such a number will not work with military equipment, completely different operating conditions.
          1. Rzzz
            Rzzz 3 October 2020 00: 09 New
            0
            Quote: Bad_gr
            General: diesel generator + drive to the drive wheels through electric motors.

            First of all, Ferdinand did not have a diesel engine, but a carbureted gasoline engine. Even two. But these are trifles. The main thing is that generators, and electric motors, and all the waste required for transformations and control are now so different that it is even meaningless to compare. It differs both in materials and in the principle of action.
            What I mean. It is wrong to simply extend the operating experience of Ferdinand or Saint-Chamond to a modern car.