The Ministry of Defense considers the transition to a fully contract army inappropriate

The Russian army will not switch solely to a contract basis, such a transition is recognized as inexpedient. This was stated by the head of the main organizational and mobilization department of the Russian General Staff Yevgeny Burdinsky.

According to Burdinsky, the transition to an exclusively contractual method of manning the army is impractical for several reasons. First, the maintenance of a fully contract army will be much more expensive, and secondly, in this case, the mobilization resource, which is created, among other things, from those who have served their military service, will disappear. The Ministry of Defense believes that in every region of Russia there should be a significant number of people who, if necessary, can stand up to defend the country.

It seems to me that this is not necessary - to completely switch to a contract, because it is too expensive a pleasure. It will be an expensive army, but the most important thing must be understood: in the course of conscription military service, young people fulfill their dream and their right to defend the state. At the same time, we are also thinking about the accumulation of mobilization resources.

- he explained.

At present, combat units of constant readiness are completed by contract soldiers, and conscripts form the basis of the mobilization resource. This approach of the defense department is in line with Russia's economic capabilities and is adequate to the nature of military threats. Moreover, the total number of contract soldiers in the Russian army exceeds the number of "conscripts." In 2019, this ratio was 1,7 to 1 (58 and 42%), respectively.

Let us recall that from today, October 1, the autumn conscription started in Russia. The day before, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a corresponding decree. In total, 128 thousand people will be drafted into the Armed Forces in the fall.

Comments

[Livonetc]

"secondly, in this case, the mobilization resource, which is created, including from those who have served their military service, will disappear."
This aspect is the first in importance for the country's defense.

[SRC P-15]

The Ministry of Defense considers the transition to a fully contract army inappropriate

Serving in the army is an honorable duty of every citizen of Russia!
R.S. And did anyone from the gay community put down the cons?

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

Serving in the army is an honorable duty of every citizen of Russia!

So I wonder if the children of Abramovich or Potanin, say, agree with you? That's when their children, together with mine, will dig trenches and "take off", scrub in the barracks, then we will talk about "the honorable duty of every citizen."

[Infinity]

By the way, the Commander-in-Chief in the spring of 2019 spoke about the gradual abandonment of the draft system.

Quote: Livonetc

"secondly, in this case, the mobilization resource, which is created, including from those who have served their military service, will disappear."
This aspect is the first in importance for the country's defense.

On the one hand, you are right, on the other hand, there are problems: after the army, many generally forget about physical activity and will not even be able to pull up once. And knowledge evaporates. This is, firstly, and secondly, the question arises of the general possibility of a large-scale war with the mobilization of the population. Since a war of this magnitude would mean a transition to a nuclear one. And thirdly, the widespread use of more and more complex systems makes the call in its modern form ineffective.
I am sure that we will leave this system, but not now. Or we will change it strongly so that it corresponds to reality.

Quote: СРЦ П-15

Serving in the army is an honorable duty of every citizen of Russia!

To serve the Motherland and the people is the duty. And how to do it: in the army, in a hospital, in the field, at a factory, in a laboratory, or just honestly working at a regular job - is no longer so important. The main thing is for the benefit of the country and honestly!

[Ryusei]

Words of a coward hiding behind a high word.

[SRC P-15]

Quote: Infinity

To serve the Motherland and the people is the duty. And how to do it: in the army, in a hospital, in the field, at a factory, in a laboratory, or just honestly working at a regular job - is no longer so important. The main thing is for the benefit of the country and honestly!

Do not confuse service to the Motherland at the factory and in the Army! Those who do not serve in the troops are alternative men and the attitude towards them is corresponding. There is an exception, only those who did not qualify for illness! Fair selection!

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

not selected due to illness! Fair selection!

Hahaha.

[Infinity]

It's not just about alternative service. I'm generally talking about honest work for my country, where a person can.
A year ago, there was news at VO: a graduate student sued the Ministry of Defense for a lot of money for illegal conscription (it was really illegal, since there was a delay due to graduate school). And all would be fine, but this guy worked at a defense complex plant, and his dissertation was somehow related to military technology. It is absolutely obvious that he gave his duty not in the barracks, but by scientific work, and his contribution to the country's defense is much greater than as a conscript. At the same time, I have no doubt that his schedule of work and publications was simply disrupted.

[KCA]

A year ago there were already scientific companies where he could serve and write a thesis, not specifically about this case, if the call was illegal, but in general

[ZAV69]

Quote: KCA

A year ago there were already scientific companies where he could serve and write a thesis, not specifically about this case, if the call was illegal, but in general

Did he get into the research company? Something tells me that, according to a long-standing Russian tradition, I got round to drag and square to roll.

[Rzzz]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

Do not confuse service to the Motherland at the factory and in the Army! Those

Do you think that bad soldiers are more needed for the Motherland than good engineers?

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Infinity

By the way, the Commander-in-Chief in the spring of 2019 spoke about the gradual abandonment of the draft system.

He says a lot of things. I spoke about the retirement age and that we will not change the constitution. And how he spoke about "strategy 2010", and about "strategy 2020".

Quote: Infinity

there are problems: after the army, many generally forget about physical activity and will not even be able to pull up once. And knowledge evaporates.

I'm 52, I'm doing 10 pull-ups now, I don't do sports, I have no time. Do you think that if I had not served in the army, I would have pulled up more? And knowledge, they either exist, or they do not.

Quote: Infinity

And thirdly, the widespread use of more and more complex systems makes the call in its modern form ineffective.

It's just that education at school should be of better quality.

Quote: Infinity

To serve the Motherland and the people is the duty. And how to do it: in the army, in a hospital, in the field, at a factory, in a laboratory, or just honestly working at a regular job - is no longer so important. The main thing is for the benefit of the country and honestly!

You tell our officials and other "best people" this.

[Voyager]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

And knowledge, they either exist or they do not.

How shoud I understand this? Knowledge is just acquired by hard work and requires repetition, otherwise it will disappear.

[venik]

Quote: Infinity

the widespread use of more and more complex systems makes the call in its modern form ineffective.

========
Partly - Yes! Special forces, navy, aviation, air defense, missile and radio-technical troops - yes! Here, if not 100%, then at least the majority of the personnel should be regular officers and contract soldiers! And the motorized riflemen? And parts of the protection of objects, logistics, etc. etc. - to complete them by 100% as well ???

[maktub]

Namely, any work must be paid.
No matter how cynical it may sound, people who deliberately chose the army as their path, specially trained and receive a decent reward should fight and die.

[Sanya Terek]

Quote: maktub

... No matter how cynical it may sound, but people who deliberately chose the army as their path, specially trained and receiving decent rewards should fight and die

No matter how cynical it may sound, many "contract channels" who receive a decent reward are not only not ready to "fight and die" but simply change their place of service. Do you know such examples?

[maktub]

These are questions for the command and combat unit

[mark2]

on the other hand, there are problems: after the army, many generally forget about physical activity and will not even be able to pull up once.

The mobilization reserve is those who will be drafted into the army in case of war. Why should they actually be able to pull themselves up? After a health check and a short retraining course, he immediately went into battle. Contractors are recruited mainly from conscripts or from those who, after the army, have not forgotten how to pull themselves up. There is an age limit for the contract.
And yes, other countries have similar problems. In countries with a contract recruitment system, the mobilization reserve consists of former contract personnel. The rest of the population does not even have skills. And this reserve is not very large.
In case of war, you have to cook from scratch.
A contract army cannot be large by definition, as it is expensive. Well, apart from the United States, they do not earn, others earn.

[Sanya Terek]

For those who diligently "performed their duty" outside the army, introduce the medal "For courage when taking out chamber pots (hammering attendants, etc.)". Just for the children of Abramovich, Potanin and K.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

children of Abramovich or Potanin, say, agree with you?

So they are forgiven, they have dual citizenship!

[Piramidon]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

So I'm wondering if the children of Abramovich or Potanin, say, agree with you?

Yes nasr I don't give a damn about these elite kids. I’m not even in reserve for a long time, but retired, but I’m going to defend my land. Under the "noise" and these kids along with the dads I will clean.

[Alf]

Quote: Piramidon

Under the "noise" and these kids, along with the dads, I will clean up.

In the 90s I was shuttling and saw an interesting picture. A passenger (not military) train arrived from Chechnya, so they fenced off the entire platform on Kazanskoye, put frames and looked into ... everyone who went out.

[Sanya Terek]

A hundred advantages to you!

[Sanya Terek]

Our children, unlike the children named by you ... are citizens of Russia, and must be ready to defend their Motherland from the aggressor.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

And did anyone from the gay community put down the cons?

I put, and the reason is in the comment above.

[SRC P-15]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

I put, and the reason is in the comment below.

This is not a reason, but an excuse! And the way the rich Buratino discourage their children from serving in the Army is their problem! And the business of every honest citizen is to pay the military duty to his homeland. Those whose children do not serve, then this is not their homeland!

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

This is not a reason, but an excuse! And the way the rich Buratino discourage their children from serving in the Army is their problem!

Ага.

Quote: СРЦ П-15

And the business of every honest citizen is to pay the military duty to his homeland. Those whose children do not serve, then this is not their homeland!

So you tell our officials this. Can you tell me where Rogozin's son served as an urgent service? And what about Deripaska? Does Peskov have a son or a daughter? If the son, where did he serve? Or do you think that there is no need to follow the example of the country's leadership? But don't you remember what the children of the USSR leadership did during the war? You are saying here that we have a war with the Naglo-Saxons and other Western mats?

[SRC P-15]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

So you tell our officials this. Can you tell me where Rogozin's son served as an urgent service? And what about Deripaska? Does Peskov have a son or a daughter? If the son, where did he serve? Or do you think that there is no need to follow the example of the country's leadership?

Why are you all looking back at others? You keep your conscience in order! And all will be well!

Quote: aleksejkabanets

But don't you remember what the children of the USSR leadership did during the war?

I remember: one of Stalin's son was in captivity, the other was a pilot and also fought. And that's enough for me.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

You keep your conscience in order!

Do not worry so much for my conscience.

Quote: СРЦ П-15

I remember: one of Stalin's son was in captivity, the other was a pilot and also fought. And that's enough for me.

He died in captivity, if he was captured at all.

[mark2]

Respected. Firstly, this is not a war. And it is not yet known where the children of officials will be and in what quantity. They are different wars. It may happen that there will be nowhere to run. They just won't be accepted anywhere.
Everyone knows what the children of the USSR leadership did. And surely there were others who shouted that "their children" would not go to war.
Peskov, if anything, has a daughter.

[Alf]

Quote: mark2

Peskov, if anything, has a daughter.

Her words.

[ZAV69]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

So you tell our officials this. Can you tell me where Rogozin's son served as an urgent service? And what about Deripaska? Does Peskov have a son or a daughter? If the son, where did he serve? Or do you think that there is no need to follow the example of the country's leadership? But don't you remember what the children of the USSR leadership did during the war? You are saying here that we have a war with the Naglo-Saxons and other Western mats?

Here you are interested in nashikmi officials and oligarchs, this is understandable, the names are horrible, on the Internet they are not persuaded as soon as possible. But by the way, how many ordinary people do not serve themselves completely according to the law. He graduated from a university with a military department, lieutenant shoulder straps for a jacket, a soldier received and forgot about the army. He graduated from high school and went to a rural school as a teacher, he also forgot about the army. He graduated from high school, got a job in the defense industry or the Ministry of Internal Affairs and forgot about the army. He graduated from high school, entered graduate school and also forgot about the army.

[Alf]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

Those whose children do not serve, then this is not their homeland!

But nevertheless, it is they who have Helm. And it is they who, pushing on patriotism, will send OUR children under bullets.

[Terrible GMO]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

And the business of every honest citizen is to pay the military duty to his homeland.

If only the state paid its debt to the citizen. Only when help is needed does it suddenly self-destruct.

[apro]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

... And did anyone from the gay community put down the cons?

Does it bother you?
The army is a cast of society. And today everything is decided by money ... and it is not profitable to spend your time. It is not necessary to compare it with the times of the USSR, it was different there. Then the protection of the Soviet people today serves the interests of the ruling class.
The contract army is more honest in this situation.

[SRC P-15]

Quote: apro

Does it bother you?
The army is a cast of society. And today everything is decided by money ... and it is not profitable to spend your time. It is not necessary to compare it with the times of the USSR, it was different there. Then the protection of the Soviet people today serves the interests of the ruling class.
The contract army is more honest in this situation.

Is it not profitable for you to waste your time serving in the Army? But what if the war? Pay off with money too? So let a simple guy from the village go and serve and protect you in case of war? And at this time, which you do not want to spend on debt to the Motherland, will you earn money? Bravissimo!

[apro]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

But what if the war?

You propose to fight for the interests of people who have three citizenship, money and property in the aggressor country?

Quote: СРЦ П-15

So let a simple guy from the village go and serve and protect you in case of war?

That is why today I am in favor of the mercenary army, so that a simple guy would receive a decent reward for his skills and professionalism.
And it is not necessary for all good against all bad. The situation is like this. And society prioritizes based on economic expediency ... in Russia there is no ideology ... except for the dough.

[SRC P-15]

Quote: apro

You propose to fight for the interests of people who have three citizenship, money and property in the aggressor country?

I propose to fight for my fathers and mothers, children and grandchildren!

Quote: apro

That is why today I am in favor of the mercenary army, so that a simple guy would receive a decent reward for his skills and professionalism.

Again: what if war? Do you think a professional army can handle it alone? Then what is the mobreserve for? But you do not want to enter it, but are you going to watch others fight? With this thinking, I'm afraid we will not defend the country.

[apro]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

With this thinking, I'm afraid we will not defend the country

In 1991, the country had the second army in the world, and what helped? It is necessary to solve internal problems of social harmony. And then wave a club ..

[SRC P-15]

Quote: apro

In 1991, the country had the second army in the world, and what helped? It is necessary to solve internal problems of social harmony. And then wave a club ..

But people like you, who had only money in mind, ruined this country! Unfortunately, with our tacit consent ...

[apro]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

But people like you, who had only money in mind, ruined this country!

Then it was in my mind to serve. Which I did. And the attitude to the service is normal. As well as the majority of my sosuzhivtsy. Believed that this was normal. But it was the USSR. And today in russia I don’t think so.

[SRC P-15]

Quote: apro

Then it was in my mind to serve. Which I did. And the attitude to the service is normal. As well as the majority of my sosuzhivtsy. Believed that this was normal. But it was the USSR. And today in russia I don’t think so.

If you write your country with a small letter, then this is not your country, so there is no need to rant about serving in the Russian Army!

[apro]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

If you write your country with a small letter, then this is not your country, so there is no need to rant about serving in the Russian Army!

I always write my country with a capital letter ...

[SRC P-15]

Quote: apro

I always write my country with a capital letter ...

Will you open a secret: which one?

[apro]

but that was the USSR.

[SRC P-15]

Quote: apro

but that was the USSR.

What year did you emigrate?

[apro]

1991.

[SRC P-15]

Quote: apro

1991.

And on the site of what, longing for a small homeland? After all, admit it pulls? That's the same! It turns out that Israel has never become your real homeland! Even if you always write it with a capital letter.

[apro]

Quote: SRC P-15

Quote: apro

1991.

And on the site of what, longing for a small homeland? After all, admit it pulls? That's the same! It turns out that Israel has never become your real homeland! Even if you always write it with a capital letter.

He emigrated to Russia ... from the USSR without warning.

[SRC P-15]

Quote: apro

He emigrated to Russia ... from the USSR without warning.

Okay, fill it in! From you a mile away is exceptional.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

But people like you, who had only money in mind, ruined this country! Unfortunately, with our tacit consent ...

As you dazdraputs, you know how to turn everything around.

[SRC P-15]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

As you dazdraputs, you know how to turn everything around.

Also an emigrant?

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: apro

In 1991, the country had the second army in the world, and what helped? It is necessary to solve internal problems of social harmony. And then wave a club ..

Totally agree with you.

[mark2]

You propose to fight for the interests of people who have three citizenship, money and property in the aggressor country?

You will fight for your country. And those people, for whose interests you are fighting, are not going to agree on the results anyway. It's just that you and me, as well as the same ordinary mortals who will come to kill, did not communicate the same interests. They were mobilized for other nonsense for the war. And now you will fight so that the enemy soldier, deceived by his leadership, does not come to kill your family. And the better you learn how to fight and kill in the army, the more chances your family has.

[ZEMCH]

Quote: apro

You propose to fight for the interests of people who have three citizenship, money and property in the aggressor country?

I do not know about you, but I will fight for the Motherland!

Quote: apro

And it is not necessary for all good against all bad. The situation is like this. And society prioritizes based on economic expediency ... in Russia there is no ideology ... except for the dough.

In the states, the Monroe Doctrine has been made a foreign policy priority and is being applied to the whole world. Countries are fighting not for ideology, but for interests.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

Is it not profitable for you to waste your time serving in the Army? But what if the war? Pay off with money too? So let a simple guy from the village go and serve and protect you in case of war? And at this time, which you do not want to spend on debt to the Motherland, will you earn money? Bravissimo!

It's good to tryndet already, tell our bureaucrats this, because they are our main patriots, and Solovyov and Skobeeva, their children must have served in the army, right?

[SRC P-15]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Good tryndet already

For now, trynd you! How much can you talk about the same thing? But what was Skabeeva dragged to? She has children not yet army age! And Solovyov has dual citizenship! Maybe enough already?

[hohkn]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

And did anyone from the gay community put down the cons?

I compensated.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Livonetc

"secondly, in this case, the mobilization resource, which is created, including from those who have served their military service, will disappear."
This aspect is the first in importance for the country's defense.

I completely agree with you here, only a service life of one year, this is somehow not serious. You can't make a soldier out of a new recruit in a year, and he can't master the technique properly.

[Livonetc]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Quote: Livonetc

"secondly, in this case, the mobilization resource, which is created, including from those who have served their military service, will disappear."
This aspect is the first in importance for the country's defense.

I completely agree with you here, only a service life of one year, this is somehow not serious. You can't make a soldier out of a new recruit in a year, and he can't master the technique properly.

A year is certainly not enough.
He will not master the technique.
Let the contractors master the technique in full.
However, the basic omnovy of military service will be comprehended.
He will learn to handle weapons, even small ones.
It is much better in case of war than giving out weapons during hostilities to people who have not even seen weapons.
In Soviet times, even schoolchildren owned small arms.
They started with a small thing, reinforced with Kalashnikovs.

[Rzzz]

Quote: Livonetc

He will learn to handle weapons, even small ones.

You can figure out how the Kalash works in a day. Another 6 days for shooting practice. After a week, you can go home. But to slow down the development and career of a person for a year without his desire is unreasonable even from the state point of view.
Okay, if it's a year. I had one subordinate, a young boy. He graduated from the navigator, received a navigational diploma. After the sailor was taken into the army and put on some kind of radio station. And there the equipment is secret, he was issued a permit. Those. after demobilization, the border was closed to him for 5 years, practically breaking all career plans.
And he said, "I have not seen this secret equipment, it was in a separate room, where we were not even allowed."

[whatis love]

So even if there is 2, the conscript will forget everything after demobilization. And the technique is constantly changing

[Lopatov]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

You can't make a soldier out of a new recruit in a year, and he can't master the technique properly.

The combat training program is designed for one year.
Soviet.
It's easy to make a soldier out of a recruit in a year. This is even a lot.
If you did not mow from the army, you knew.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Spade

The combat training program is designed for one year.
Soviet.

Not a combat training program, but rather its "theoretical part", after a year of service began "practice" and training of young soldiers.

Quote: Spade

If you did not mow from the army, you knew.

I have already convicted you of a lie more than once. Justify your last statement, liar.

[Lopatov]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Not a combat training program, but rather its "theoretical part"

Quote: aleksejkabanets

after a year of service, "practice" and training of young soldiers began.

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Justify your last statement, liar.

It is impossible to serve in the army and at the same time know absolutely nothing about the combat training program.
Anyone who served, even if his unit was completely slaughtered for combat training, perfectly remembers the "sheet" on the wall by the nightstand "Schedule of classes"

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Spade

Anyone who served, even if his unit was completely slaughtered for combat training, perfectly remembers the "sheet" on the wall by the nightstand "Schedule of classes"

You see, little respected liar, I served in the WZO for a short time, that is, Stroybat, and therefore I did not have such a sheet. We had construction work and cable laying on weekends, so that’s still a service. And later, I served as a warrant officer in the position of "VISP and RSP technician".

[Lopatov]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

I served in the VZO, that is, Stroybat, for a term, and therefore I did not have such a sheet.

Lying.
And their schedule of classes was compiled on a mandatory basis

So you can make up whatever you want. Fortunately, there are many people here who really served.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Spade

Quote: aleksejkabanets

I served in the VZO, that is, Stroybat, for a term, and therefore I did not have such a sheet.

Lying.
And their schedule of classes was compiled on a mandatory basis

So you can make up whatever you want. Fortunately, there are many people here who really served.

You probably have not seen the construction battalion. They had nothing but a work plan. They did not even have weapons in the barracks, and the orderlies stood without bayonet-knives. In 81-83 they were neighbors with us, I often went there. Builders in military uniform. Not to be confused with engineering troops!

[Lopatov]

Quote: Doliva63

You probably did not find the construction battalion.

The barracks on the Sputnik were in the back, behind the divisional headquarters. Then the second battalion of the 693rd regiment was transferred there.
And the schedule of classes hung on them.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Spade

Quote: aleksejkabanets

You can't make a soldier out of a new recruit in a year, and he can't master the technique properly.

The combat training program is designed for one year.
Soviet.
It's easy to make a soldier out of a recruit in a year. This is even a lot.
If you did not mow from the army, you knew.

It depends on how you look at it. Commander tank (soldier after all?) - 6 months of training (Elan), 6 months of service in the regiment (Ohrdruf), then 6 months. - the school of warrant officers (next to Yuterbog, I forgot the name of the settlement), then 3 years of service as a tank commander - this is already a soldier! And for a year it is "nothing", alas. In the GSVG (I'm talking about reconnaissance now, not about BTV), every 4th-5th wanted to stay on extra urgent, even if we didn't have places, we agreed with our neighbors to take them - we then worked with them constantly, pulled out all the significant military organizational special events. These were really soldiers! Against the company of the 75th US regiment, we put up a full-time staff - we won. And if you put these guys out? 2 years is an "introduction to the profession", mob.resource, no more. 3-5 years is an accomplished warrior. It is surprising that the USSR could afford it, but the cap. RF does not pull.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Doliva63

And for a year it is "nothing", alas

Remember, this is not a matter of teaming up a unit. Only "make a soldier". That is, in theory, a lot of years.
And you remembered the "training" correctly. Who did just that, "make a soldier"

[Doliva63]

Quote: Spade

Quote: Doliva63

And for a year it is "nothing", alas

Remember, this is not a matter of teaming up a unit. Only "make a soldier". That is, in theory, a lot of years.
And you remembered the "training" correctly. Who did just that, "make a soldier"

And I didn’t say anything about coordination. I talked about the fact that 1 year is the time to get used to the army and teach how to use weapons. But this is not a soldier yet. He will become a soldier when he learns to make decisions. Do you agree? And for this 1 year is not enough.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Doliva63

He will become a soldier when he learns to make decisions. Do you agree? And for this 1 year is not enough.

They say that in half a year, training courses were sent to Afghanistan. And they thought that was enough.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Spade

Quote: Doliva63

He will become a soldier when he learns to make decisions. Do you agree? And for this 1 year is not enough.

They say that in half a year, training courses were sent to Afghanistan. And they thought that was enough.

Quote: Spade

Quote: Doliva63

He will become a soldier when he learns to make decisions. Do you agree? And for this 1 year is not enough.

They say that in half a year, training courses were sent to Afghanistan. And they thought that was enough.

Yeah, there was a case. Not from a big mind, however. At first (for non-specialists), the KMB passed here, and - forward. This was then done for everyone. But even after it, not immediately into battle. By about a year of service, more or less a soldier was obtained. But this is in those conditions. In a peaceful situation, this does not work. I had several fighters, with whom I worried, but "revealed" only on the extra-urgent - after both Chechen "iconostases" in full growth. And after a year of service, I did not even take them to the group during the exercises. But nothing, we are friends on the Internet And here's another. We arrived in the area. I clarify the problem and always ask - your ideas? Because if the decision is purely mine, some may simply physically fail to cope with it. And they know their strength better. But it must be a soldier with experience who can realistically assess his strength. And this comes only in the 2nd year of service. With such you can fight. Of course, this is a subjective opinion. Maybe it's not like that in artillery, I don't know.

[g1washntwn]

Normal military departments with normal military training. Not just for students.
Otherwise, there is a feeling that they just scrape a point in the barracks and trample the parade ground.
Second, what does it mean "will be much cheaper"? Cheaper is almost synonymous with "worse".
Separation into samurai and other "ignoble bloods"?

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: g1washntwn

Division into samurai and other "ignoble bloods"

Welcome to neo-feudalism.

[Pessimist22]

A mobilization resource, the communists taught us to shoot from the age of 14 with TOZ 8.

[g1washntwn]

Mobresurs should be able to shoot not only from TOZ8 and Kalash. Without conscription, it is possible and necessary to fully train a minimum of general military affairs and one military specialty, closer to the profile civilian training received. Everyone receiving workers, engineering and other specialties.
Transfer military departments to specialized "training" from which to completely withdraw the draft. HF with a contract should not train, check the acquired military knowledge - maybe yes.
Plus, the same centers must constantly improve their qualifications or at least maintain the knowledge of the mobility resource based on the knowledge and skills gained. This should be serious, responsible training without running around after men who strive to poison themselves with denatured alcohol AWOL.
About the second military specialty is closer to the received one: if you are a military driver, take courses of mechanics not only in motor transport. Signal operator - learn the minimum in electronic warfare. Artilleryman - gain knowledge about the specifics of using drones and missile systems. Etc. Not necessarily, but somehow encouraged and welcomed. I have already written, it will be a shame to tears if it is necessary to shmalnut from the surviving shopping and entertainment complex, and there is only a "call" which shakes footcloths over a boot and the remains of a musical company.

[Doliva63]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Quote: g1washntwn

Division into samurai and other "ignoble bloods"

Welcome to neo-feudalism.

We've been there for 20 years, haven't you noticed?

[strannik1985]

This aspect is the first

Regardless of the cost of the event, it is decided on a voluntary basis - the US National Guard, the British Territorial Army, Heimatschutz of the Bundeswehr.

[Doliva63]

Quote: strannik1985

This aspect is the first

Regardless of the cost of the event, it is decided on a voluntary basis - the US National Guard, the British Territorial Army, Heimatschutz of the Bundeswehr.

And also the traffic on the roads is the same as in England - they drive like this there!

[ccsr]

Quote: Livonetc

"secondly, in this case, the mobilization resource, which is created, including from those who have served their military service, will disappear."
This aspect is the first in importance for the country's defense.

Firstly, you are wrong to think that a conscript who has served a year is a valuable mobility resource for the armed forces, because there is no sense in that fighter in civilian life in three or four years, or close to that.
Secondly, even in the SA after two years of service, not all fighters were of value as a mob resource, if only due to the fact that there were many construction battalions, "departmentalists" and other explosives who, from the point of view of the transience of hostilities, did not bring any real benefit would.
Thirdly, the process of mobilization itself would be advisable if the war were protracted and proceeded according to the scenario of wars of the mid-twentieth century. But this will never happen in modern Russia, which means that it makes sense to have a huge mob reserve for a war that will last several tens of minutes or several hours is devoid of common sense.
Fourth, all the costs of the useless training of a one-year-old conscript are much better spent on training those who decide to associate themselves with the army for years - the quality of contract soldiers and warrant officers will be higher, and there will be cost savings, because once the trained person retains skills until the end service.
Fifthly, the maintenance of a contract soldier in terms of salary and benefits is more costly than that of a conscript, but if you count everything "in a circle", including the saved resource and the equipment that is ruined during study, it turns out that it is much cheaper to teach one times a contractor than spending money on a new conscript every year.
Sixth, not all contractors enter into the second and third contracts, but simply quit after the first, and these people will be an excellent mob reserve after 3-5 years of service - this is a fact.
Seventh, the motivation of a person called up through the military registration and enlistment office for an urgent one is very different from the motivation of those who voluntarily sign up for a contract - for some reason our current commanders do not want to take this into account, at least from the point of view of return for the army.
I can also give several reasons why we are simply forced to switch to a contract army, but I will dwell on this, because I think those who have served in the SA and RA for more than one year, and know how to train personnel, will always understand what I wrote about. If someone wants to refute my arguments, then I would like to know for a start how many years this person spent serving in the army in order to understand how much of a person is in the subject.

[alexmach]

In 2019, this ratio was 1,7 to 1 (58 and 42%), respectively.

Have you invented any special separate arithmetic for the military? Or for journalists?
Out of 58 and 42%, 1,7 to 1 does not work well at all.

PS: understandable .. for journalists.

[KVU-NSVD]

Have you invented any special separate arithmetic for the military? Or for journalists?
Out of 58 and 42%, 1,7 to 1 does not work well at all.

50 to 50 is one to one, 60 to 30 is two to one, 55 to 45 is 1.5 to 1. 58 to 42 is about 1.7 to 1 (more precisely 1.74 to 1). So this is your special arithmetic, and this is classical.

[Hexenmeister]

and this classic

Exactly? 1.7 to 1 as a percentage is 63 to 37%

[Raven 95]

50 / 50 = 1
60 / 30 = 2
55/45 = 1, (2)
58 / 42 = 1,380952
So it seems, or did the additions come?

[dzvero]

1,5: 1 to 60:40; 58:42 gives a ratio of 1,38: 1
In my opinion, either the journalists misunderstood or initially the formulation of the thought was incomplete. Ex. 58 and 42% - contract soldiers for conscripts in "rank and file" positions. And 1.7 to 1 already taking into account the officers. It turned out something like "if I know, then you should."

[alexmach]

55 to 45 is 1.5 to 1

Would not be dishonored.
55/45 = 1.2 (2). this is 1,2 to 1. That is, one of the smaller group accounts for 1,2 of the larger

58 to 42 is about 1.7 to 1 (more precisely 1.74 to 1)

No. This is a ratio of 1,38 to 1.

This can be seen even by eye and is easily verified by a simple arephmetic operation.

60 to 30 is two to one

Here everything is correct

[Astra55]

- Navigator, how much is 2x2?
- Five, commander!
-?
- Well, adjusted for the wind ...

[cniza]

The Russian army will not switch solely to a contract basis, such a transition is recognized as inexpedient.

And how else to prepare a reserve, clearly the draft and the service life must be increased, at least 2 - 3 years, as it was.

[viktor.]

Every Boy Must Become a Man!

[prior]

There is such a profession stolen by the Sechins and Millers to protect.
They say it's honorable, but free.

[strannik1985]

By far, Sechin and Miller suffered the most during the two campaigns in Chechnya. They were also in South Ossetia and Syria.

[Lopatov]

Quote: prior

They say it's honorable, but free.

... but people are coming. You can not understand...

[mark2]

what the Sechins and Millers stole will not be protected by you. They protected everything long ago. You will defend your Motherland - the territory where you and your relatives live. It may happen that if this territory is not protected, then there will be no place for you. Do we remember what Hitler wanted there in the occupied territories?

[mat-vey]

Quote: mark2

Do we remember what Hitler wanted there in the occupied territories?

Sechin and Millers are doing just as well ...

[maktub]

The most important economic question is "conscript laborers" who hardly need to pay
All other talk in favor of the poor

[viktor.]

Whole service Batrachili ???

[maktub]

The VUS did not allow me to work as laborers, others did 'work as laborers'

[viktor.]

It is also useful to spend money, today's youth, especially from cities, is heavier than a smartphone in their hands they did not hold anything.

[maktub]

Have you tried on yourself? Would you "work as a laborer" for soldering?

[codetalker]

Conceptually I fully agree with this decision. I urge everyone to support him. But there are some questions in terms of its practical implementation. Do the conscripts serving in the current format acquire the necessary minimum of knowledge and skills to defend the Motherland in the future? It's not even that "ours work badly." Life itself and the laws of the times make it necessary for military training not only within the framework of service. And there seems to be experience in the form of military departments, but ... I work at the University, there is a military training center in it. But he is only engaged in the preparation of personnel of various orientations for the needs of the Armed Forces, and does not interact with 90% of students at all. That's all...
I hope that the Ministry of Defense is aware of this issue and that this issue has been worked out for many years to come.

[viktor.]

Quote: prior

There is such a profession stolen by the Sechins and Millers to protect.
They say it's honorable, but free.

Well, they also need to be protected like you.

[Kushka]

Quote: Astra55

- Navigator, how much is 2x2?
- Five, commander!
-?
- Well, adjusted for the wind ...

Dety, how many beddet is 6 x 8, Valiko?
49!
Gogi?
57!
Sergo?
74!
-Children, how much you say - 6 x 8 can be
48, 49, maximum 51 - well, now we are 74!

[Ela myaushkina]

Firstly, not everyone needs and is interested in military service. For many, even beyond their capabilities, even physical ones. Not all patriots, especially "hurray", are brainwashed and deviated to one side.

Secondly, no one owes anything to anyone, except the state to its citizens within the framework of social services. protection, benefits, guarantees and an acceptable standard of living. Each person has no debt to the country and state where he was born. The country and the state have a duty as a parent in relation to their citizen.

Thirdly, only people, soldiers by vocation, who are interested in the army, military service, weapons, and so on, should go to military service. Those who cannot imagine life without a military uniform, army, weapons, etc., with regard to military service.

Fourthly, each person first of all protects himself, his family, loved ones and relatives. And last of all, the state and the country, provided that it provided an acceptable and high standard of living. If the standard of living was low, then it makes no sense to defend such a country and state.

So the current initiative is just a coercion, forcing, propaganda and labeling in the spirit - did not serve, not a man. This means that it is socially less significant, valuable, etc.

[Astra55]

not everyone needs and is interested in military service

If the standard of living was low, then it makes no sense to defend such a country and state.

Duc then you can not pay taxes.
It is free to ride the tram, because in my opinion it (the tram) does not provide the level of comfort I need.
Spend six hours in a beauty salon, and then make everyone a pen, saying that "it's bad, I don't really like it," and leave without paying.
Mademoiselle (if you are, of course, Mademoiselle), there is such a thing as DUTIES.
If you do not fulfill something, you may be obliged, and they may punish you up to imprisonment. This is in any country - even in the Russian Federation, even in Switzerland.
Speaking of prison. In the Russian Federation, everything is quite humane, dear. But in Japan, for example, convicts are required to sleep strictly on their backs and hands at the seams. For non-fulfillment - punishment in solitary confinement. In the punishment cell, sit on a stool with a straight back all day. For non-compliance - punishment with electric shock.

[Ela myaushkina]

Quote: Astra55

not everyone needs and is interested in military service

If the standard of living was low, then it makes no sense to defend such a country and state.

Duc then you can not pay taxes.
It is free to ride the tram, because in my opinion it (the tram) does not provide the level of comfort I need.
Spend six hours in a beauty salon, and then make everyone a pen, saying that "it's bad, I don't really like it," and leave without paying.
Mademoiselle (if you are, of course, Mademoiselle), there is such a thing as DUTIES.
If you do not fulfill something, you may be obliged, and they may punish you up to imprisonment. This is in any country - even in the Russian Federation, even in Switzerland.
Speaking of prison. In the Russian Federation, everything is quite humane, dear. But in Japan, for example, convicts are required to sleep strictly on their backs and hands at the seams. For non-fulfillment - punishment in solitary confinement. In the punishment cell, sit on a stool with a straight back all day. For non-compliance - punishment with electric shock.

Well, any duties and rules are like prison and slavery) There are no special differences with them) This is a dead end and a vicious circle. But what is most important, who invents and creates these duties, and why and on what right and on what basis imposes the obligatory ones? The question is rather rhetorical. In the analogy, how to judge and decide who is allowed what and what is not, who how to live and not live, and whether to live, what is right and wrong, what is natural and unnatural, what and how should be and should not be, etc. ... etc. Those. there are people who believe that they have the right to be like "gods", and on behalf of society and other things like that, to impose their own rules, will, etc. etc., everyone else.

[Astra55]

Is this a dead end?
Would you like to live without rules?
There are no rules. Everyone is free to do whatever he wants. Aren't you afraid to be in such a "society"?

[Ela myaushkina]

Quote: Astra55

Is this a dead end?
Would you like to live without rules?
There are no rules. Everyone is free to do whatever he wants. Aren't you afraid to be in such a "society"?

It all depends on the rules and responsibilities. But duties and rules are slightly different things at the same time. The complete absence of rules is not reasonable, but the rules should be such that they take into account the interests, desires and characteristics of each and go to his advantage, and not to harm and infringe upon. The same goes for responsibilities.

[koramax81]

As I understand it, you are on the principle "my hut is on the edge"?
How good it is with you: the state owes me, but I don't. It is your duty to defend your country. Whether you like it or not

[Elephant]

The Armed Forces must be formed from contract soldiers + territorial defense forces

[iouris]

It is too late to switch to new principles. Nothing can be done. Started.

[Observer2014]

The Ministry of Defense considers the transition to a fully contract army inappropriate

I support completely and 100% I will justify this correct decision. And I will revive anyone. Who is against this understanding of the case.

[cat Rusich]

Justify. Why in the army, after the oath and the KMB, they issue AK and send them on a combat mission - on guard (to stand on duty with AK = combat mission). And "in civilian life" to buy SCS, you first need to own a smooth-bore hunting weapon for 5 years. The Ministry of Defense of Russia has recently reduced the "severance pay" for conscripts from two to one salary = 2000 rubles, and even more there is not enough money for "contract soldiers" ...

[rocket757]

ALL men must go through the army ... that's all.
As a mobilization resource, without appropriate retraining, everything is very doubtful, but some of the "partisans" all retain their army skills.
By the way, this should be a morally ethical norm, and not an obligation ... it will be right!

[cat Rusich]

In Israel, even ALL girls pass through the IDF ... Why don't they send "mobrezerv" to "hot spots"? On the example of the First and Second Chechen campaigns - why were the "youngsters" of the first year of service and even "half-years" sent into battle (words of V. V. Putin). The same can be said about the war in Afghanistan (1979-1989) - when the war took on a protracted nature, for example, at the age of 3, they could have already sent the "mob reserve" further, because the "partisans" had already passed the "urgent" and knew everything about the army ... In the United States there is no classic "mob reserve" - ​​there is no conscript service - but in the United States, "all civilians" are allowed to buy short-barreled firearms ...

[rocket757]

Quote: cat Rusich

In Israel, even ALL girls pass through the IDF ..

They have their own cockroaches in the corners ... or in their heads. Girls EVERYTHING, but out of not ... something there is NOT ALL. The problem of state survival, it IS!

Quote: cat Rusich

Why are "mobreserve" not sent to "hot spots"

IT WAS, now there is no such thing ... although more than one region may become hot, where before that young people serve quite peacefully / calmly at the call.
In our time, the identity was different, but the young were torn, torn "for feats" .... they were NOT LET'S STARTED, without preliminary preparation. And life, military experience is a necessary, useful thing, BUT, in a calm atmosphere and the experience will be calm ... in hot spots it does not help much. All the same, a really useful experience is developed either YEARS in the process of special, serious preparation, or by an accelerated but tough method in an extreme situation !!!

[cat Rusich]

Quote: rocket757

In our time, the identity was different, but the young were torn, torn "for exploits" .... they were NOT LET'S STARTED

"Youngsters" at all times were eager to fight, "to deeds". A "hot head" is a bad advisor in war.
In essence, it all boils down to maintaining fully contractual "rapid reaction" units for a quick reaction with "full contact" with the enemy, until the situation becomes catastrophic (as an example, the Chechen companies). And all the other parts where, in fact, military training will be conducted just in case (the third world). Let them go to war from such units only after completion of preparation - for a contract. And then a long dispute will begin how long to cook and how to cook ... PS IDF as an example of "sexual equality" and the inability to retreat - all the same will have to fight, there is no large industry and there is no reason to work "in the rear" ... There will be enough ammunition until the Victory, or cartridges and shells will end in defeat.

[iouris]

Quote: rocket757

it should be morally ethical

Do we live in Ancient Rome? The color differentiation of pants was introduced here long ago. Three times A kyu!

[rocket757]

How do you understand what moral ethical standards are?
And the division according to the color of the pants exists when society allows it.

[immobile2008]

Quote: mark2

on the other hand, there are problems: after the army, many generally forget about physical activity and will not even be able to pull up once.

The mobilization reserve is those who will be drafted into the army in case of war. Why should they actually be able to pull themselves up? After a health check and a short retraining course, he immediately went into battle. Contractors are recruited mainly from conscripts or from those who, after the army, have not forgotten how to pull themselves up. There is an age limit for the contract.
And yes, other countries have similar problems. In countries with a contract recruitment system, the mobilization reserve consists of former contract personnel. The rest of the population does not even have skills. And this reserve is not very large.
In case of war, you have to cook from scratch.
A contract army cannot be large by definition, as it is expensive. Well, apart from the United States, they do not earn, others earn.

Will you go to fight if Putin starts a war? Wake up to fight for Putin?

[Chever]

Yes, one reason - there is not so much money for the contract army. And all the other "reasons" - from the bulldozer ...

in the course of conscription military service, young people fulfill their dream and their right to defend the state

Yeah, shchaZZ ... If I had been taken away in due time, I would have served purely so that they would be dumped ...

[Doliva63]

"... in the course of military service by conscription, young people fulfill their dream and their right to defend the state."
In, the general blurted out! They used to say - to defend the Motherland, and now - them, that is, the state

[Knell wardenheart]

"... in the course of military service by conscription, young people fulfill their dream and their right to defend the state ..."
Here it is - a soldier's humor. Whoever has a dream is just going to contract service, but confusing "duty" with "right" is not the healthiest sign at all ..

In the current state, the conscription part of our army is not something to be proud of, and certainly not something that should be hoped for in the case of day X. Our potential enemy (NATO) is much better than us in terms of technical equipment + quantity (in mass), and on the mobile reserve (if we consider the PRC as a potential enemy as well). That is, in a battle with NATO armies we can lose quantitatively and technically, in a battle with China we are losing quantitatively.
The preservation of a conscript army under such conditions is an extremely dangerous illusion, proceeding primarily from the economic "Serdyukov" view of the army's affairs and its combat effectiveness, rather than from its objective parameters.

For a year of military service, for the most part, you can get only a formal soldier who, in the event of a real and protracted war, will be weak morally and as a specialist, and he will probably get an outdated weapon, which he will not fight much more. Thus, if day X really happens, we will be "as usual" not ready for it in this direction, and leveling the situation will require a tremendous strain of forces and resources, as well as our dem. potential. Which we in the 21st century can no longer afford.

So I cannot agree with the General Economy. Of course, military conscription is a practice that should be abandoned (in part) and that needs to be transformed (in part) into a channel in which the level of training is potential. the conscription contingent reaches out not in the "compulsory order" so beloved by our country, but through circles, sections and voluntary movements, as well as the expansion of military training in universities.

In the event of a modern war, we will hardly need shaved-as-knee dudes in kirzachs - but we will definitely need UAV operators, scouts, snipers, etc. These specialists can be trained in the rear.

[Eug]

The conscript needs to be transformed by introducing interest-based learning rather than drill. Which, however, is also needed to temper immature souls. But don't go overboard.

[Knell wardenheart]

That's what I'm talking about. The desire to save money and fit into tradition - and real defense capability are completely different things. Our country has always been loathsome in matters of modernization, every time in a new era we had to be driven literally with kicks and a threat to the existence of the state - but the times when our massiveness allowed our stubbornness to exist have passed - we are no longer the largest wild boar in the forest.
Given our dilapidated dem. potential, it would be worth treating this issue extremely thoughtfully and delicately - ideally, revive sports movements, shooting and aviation clubs. It is also worth understanding that some people, in principle, are NOT SOLDIERS (emphasize, highlight) and trying to "make men out of them" is a stupid waste of energy for the sake of pure formalism. The beginning of any major war is an array of chaos and dumbbells, and when one-year-old conscripts swim like meatballs inside it, the result will resemble 1941 a little less than completely. With the difference that in 1941 society and the Soviet people were much more prepared for war, both in preparation and psychologically.

However, all this, unfortunately, is empty. We have never bothered with such "garbage" - the expression "the devil is in the details" for any of our authorities is traditionally an empty phrase.

[Eug]

As for me, the system of recruiting was close to ideal in the USSR - a competent combination of conscript service, "crickets", warrant officers and "jackets". The only thing - as for me - what it would be worth adding to it is the possibility of an officer to leave before the deadline (after the first mandatory five years after college) and return to service before the expiration of the age limit, but only once. In places with difficult conditions, "lure" benefits.

[iouris]

And can you still remember the USSR?

[strelokmira]

... First, the maintenance of a fully contract army will be significantly more expensive.

Someone doubted? There is no money for the army, but the government finds money for the salary of the couch warriors, so maybe it's time to send them from the couch to the army, let them praise the guarantor

[nikvic46]

I don’t know what to say. If earlier the law retained living space and work for those who served in the Army. Now the Duma has no time to pass these laws. Apparently, service in the Army is no longer included in the pension credit. Everything has changed. Before, every boy knew that he would be served in the Army. There were many people around him who had served or were going to serve. I dreamed of joining the Army in order to also see the world.

[Alexander S.]

Of course, it is more expensive, it is easier to keep a free slave force .. in our country this is welcome. Mob resource? For what? For war? Reservists who undergo annual training are suitable for war, and everything else is not a mob resource, but simply a resource ... of meat.

[immobile2008]

Why can't all conscripts be paid as contract soldiers and called a professional army? If there is a debt to the state, why is there no debt to a person?

[Malyuta]

Quote: imobile2008

If there is a debt to the state, why is there no debt to a person?

The Kabaev's girlfriend clearly told you that the state owes you nothing.

[Archon]

There is a violation of logic.
If combat units are to be made contractual, and "guard" units are made for conscripts, then which of them is a mobilization reserve? Of the conscripts who shot three cartridges for the service and only learned about military life and the distinction of military ranks. In one part, VOKhR (women and grandfathers in shabby uniforms) were engaged in the protection of ammunition depots, and in the other - conscripts in outfits. And the result was the same thing. Even in the case of VOKhR, it was safer than conscripts, who either had problems with a girl, then they did not share something with each other, then they just kind of evade work.
Here, either a complete transition to contract service in combat units and security guards with a difference in requirements, or for urgent to be increased to 2-3 years with a monthly salary, like contract soldiers, so that this money can be sent to your children, parents or left to study at the university or for an initial payment on a mortgage. Otherwise, it's just free charity work.

[koramax81]

I absolutely agree with the head of GOMU